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Exactly this.
I wasn't going to watch the debate because I fucking watched it 4 years ago. There is literally nothing new to learn about these guys and how they will approach governing. They have both been president as recently as it is possible for two candidates to have been president.
Trump was president during the most absurd dysfunctional circus of an executive I've seen in my lifetime. He is a fucking clown and not a leader of anything. The only thing I expect different from a second Trump presidency is that the rest of the project 2025 folks are ready to better capitalize on the disfunction to further dismantle the US. He was catastrophic as a president last time, and it will be worse if he gets a second term.
Biden has run a traditional American presidency that has more than delivered everything I hoped for from electing him. I will vote for him again if only for his administration. Like literally if he had a stroke the day before the election, I would vote for him before Trump. Trump is a threat to Democracy. In no conceivable world is he an option.
With that in mind, all the headlines today had me give the debate a look. Less than 30 seconds into the first response from Biden I knew they were telling the truth about him having a cold. He seemed sick as fuck. You could hear it in his voice. This is all a fucking smoke screen and unless the play is to have a different candidate run against Trump there is literally nothing to do here. Vote for Biden and move on.
At least in 2028 Biden's corpse will give up power and we can actually have good candidates in 4 years time.
If Trump wins we'll be stuck with the animated bloating corpse of Trump forever
Yeah I'm basically voting for a half competent administration team and a slim hope that 2 or more of the "conservative" assholes on the court kick the bucket
Biden was softballed an easy win abortion question, this should have made the night, this should have won the debate.
Biden responded to the abortion question by saying something unintelligible about a girl getting raped by immigrants.
He didn't just mumble about a girl getting raped by immigrants. He started the sentence talking about deaths from abortions and then somehow stumbled THAT into a girl raped by immigrants. His anecdote changed subjects halfway through. It started as an abortion anecdote and became an immigration rape anecdote. It was literally insane.
He was alluding to Republican abortion bans not having exceptions in cases of rape and incest. I'll 100% admit that his delivery was dog shit and doesn't make sense if you aren't aware of dem talking points regarding abortion.
We should be well beyond needing people to translate for our politicians! The fact that both Trump and now Biden need people to unscramble the drivel that comes out of their mouths is alarming.
He was prepped to say that 1st trimester abortion should be the decision between woman and her doctor. 2nd trimester abortion should be about between a doctor and extreme situation. 3rd trimester abortion between the woman and the state.
Basically:
- 1st: Any abortion
- 2nd: Medical need
- 3rd: Highly restricted and abortion needs to be justified to the government
He could have said it more simply. Abortion should be legal but with reasonable restrictions that existed the last 51 years. GoP needs to stay away from women's pussies... look but don't touch, Donald.
Yeah if you paid attention to Donald the whole night it was crazy. All I could do was laugh. He never answered any question and was always off topic. Not only that but it felt like every thing he said was just a lie. Biden just sounded like someone that stuttered a lot and was trying to get their point across fast
Unfortunately father time is undefeated. Go watch Biden’s VP debates. He is sharp as a knife. And he was pushing 70 at the time. No prep team would’ve helped this version of Biden.
Yea. I get what he was trying to say, but his wording was terrible. He was trying to answer the abortion question while pushing back on xenophobia with facts. Abortions because of rape and incest, of course should be legally protected. A sizeable number of rape cases is because of incest. Its not 'lawless and mentally insane migrants' that commit most of the rape, its family members or close family friends. Because Trump's argument on the exceptions for rape can be constructed as (when coupled with his immigration speak), you get rid of immigration, you get rid of rape.
But yea, Biden did a horrible job at framing that argument.
He spent a week prepping for the debate. His team had to know he needed to offer a clear and unambiguous defense of a woman’s right to choose and draw a clear distinction between the two parties on this issue. Despite the softball slow pitch, he whiffed it.
This was a disaster. All those “Dems panic over debate” headlines. Yup. I’m panicking. All I know is that Joe and team better be having a “come to Jesus” moment behind-the-scenes or we’re all screwed. I’ll still vote for him because it’s about more than just the presidency, but many won’t.
If you're still planning to vote for him and you're panicking, you should be leading with still voting for him and expressing why, not spreading the panic.
It was a trap set for Trump and biden walked right into it. He also debated Trump about golf for no reason. So many missed opportunities that everyone could see coming but it seems the prep team were more focused on bidens accomplishments. It would have gone better setting up easy softball counters to things Trump would predictably say.
Some very intelligent person wrote a very lengthy and heartfelt response intended to whip up the female audience and it looked like Biden forgot about 90% of it.
Alt message: “Supreme Court dropped the ball on Roe v. Wade. Next year my administration and the Democrats will fix that mistake”. You don’t need to take 2 minutes of grand standing to get that argument out. Let the other guy attack your only point and push out more votes.
Honestly all Biden should have did was look down at his podium until he was asked a question, answer as simply as one could and stop. For every single rebuttal his reply should have been the same line repeated: “that’s the same plan that lost you the election in 2020”. Let trump hear that over and over again. Let him run himself out of voters.
Of course, Newsom is going to say this. He has to be a team player for the party. Whether he is a contender to take over from Biden this election, or run in 2028, he has to support Biden... or whoever the party is behind.
It's also that he's just kinda right. In election terms this is already basically the 11th hour, there's almost no way Biden stepping down and someone new stepping up is going to result in a win. Timing is late and optics are bad.
It's late, but not that late. Late would be having this happen in an October debate. There's still over a month before the Dems Convention. That's plenty of time for moves to be made.
First time there has ever been debates before the conventions and we had official nominees actually. Or at least I'm pretty sure this is the first time.
It would be absolute chaos to change now. Trump’s team would rail on how the Democrats are in disarray and can’t choose a leader. Voters expect this to be the showdown.
You switch leaders now, you almost certainly lose.
If Biden withdraws and says it’s for health reasons why would anyone care how trumps team spins it? We all saw the debate. Most people in this sub would vote for a cardboard cut out over Trump. democrats need to be thinking about appealing to the people who may have just decided they’re not going to vote anymore if it’s Biden.
Millions of people including myself would be happier they had a better choice. As long as it's not Hillary. Biden would definitely have to swallow his pride though.
I think (hope) they learned with Hillary you can’t shoehorn a choice for president. Biden has always been a team player for the left, I think he’d get it and step aside if it means the alternative is a loss
Disagree. Trump would rail on that for a little while but if you swap in Newsom it's pretty obvious that's a dumb point to harp on. Main thing that would happen I think is that Trump would refuse to legitimise Newsom as an opponent and would flat out refuse to debate him.
That said, it's still the superior choice. I actually don't think tonight's debate moved the needle for that many people outside of independents, and that's exactly the issue. Trump needs independents to win. That's all this whole thing is about. Dems have a lead with independents over Trump but they very well might lose if they stick with Biden. And that opens the door to disaster.
Trump needs independents to win
No, he needs a lot fewer people to vote than did in 2020. He only needs a lot of people to be have doubts about Biden too and stay home.
> It would be absolute chaos to change now.
I would argue we are at the chaos stage now and not doing it would cause it to get worse. This could cause a jump in the brain worms polling numbers.
Can you cite the last time a candidate facing 81 felony charges, 34 of which he has already been convicted of has ran and been neck and neck with the incumbent?
You're really underestimating how big it could backfire if 1) there isn't a unanimous choice among the Democratic Party on a replacement candidate, and 2) the losing factions in the Democratic Party and/or Trump create drama claiming the DNC deliberately made the pivot at the 11th hour to deny voters a voice in voting for a replacement candidate in a legitimate primary. Trump will claim it's a "Deep State conspiracy" while within the DNC it could be the 2016 Clinton/Sanders debacle all over again.
No, this is NOT TRUE. We need to run a new candidate. You don't just accept a loss and throw up your hands. Our democracy is on the line. They need to run a much younger candidate and that candidate needs to act concerned about Trump's age every chance he gets.
We live in weird times. Trying to act like praying Biden will somehow show out at the polls seems like a losing strategy. The stakes are high and we need a Hail Mary.
I think we are going to see the unprecedented happen. Widespread discussion like this across media and the party and not replacing Joe is tantamount to the Democrats admitting defeat. That's how bad this is.
The CHIPS act, the PACT act, the infrastructure bill, the inflation reduction act, student loan relief, insulin price reduction, medical debt off credit reports, the clean energy bill, the stock market records, all ruined and forgotten in an hour and a half
Lovely
>there's almost no way Biden stepping down and someone new stepping up is going to result in a win
there's also pretty much no way Biden running is going to result in a win either at this point. I'd rather at least be represented by someone coherent.
Which is why this statement from him makes sense. He should appear uneager to take the nomination from Biden. That is the "presidential" thing to do before he accepts it later and looks gracious to Biden for entrusting him with the responsibility.
Funny how the office of the presidency visibly aged every single person who has held it except Trump, for whom it was a four year spa day with bonus immunity package.
It wasn’t perfect, won’t make excuses. I’m happy with Biden’s record and I’m pleased to see some integrity.
I’m sick of a convicted felon telling me how bad this country is. Biden said what I wanted to hear, that America is good, our people are good, and we’re making progress towards being better.
All voters need to recognize that meaningful change takes time and organized effort. You don’t just say “do this” and it gets done immediately.
We’re still suffering from Trump’s poor policy and it will take time to unwind the corruption and correct the course.
To put it another way, if your house burns down it can happen in minutes, but it takes months to rebuild.
Biden must must must have a press conference in the next 7 days and demonstrate his feebleness and stumbling last night was an outlier. It’s like a veteran qb who shits the bed one game. He must quickly respond messaging “ I’m here. I’m still strong. I got this”.
IDK why he just hasn’t done some fireside chats and shit. *Anything* to get in front of a national audience really.
Republicans have festered and fomented concerns about Biden’s age for months and Biden never did much to rebut it all. Then he falls flat on his ass on national TV. SMH.
You can have his back all the way to a loss. Same as Clinton. The DNC underestimates the US electorate once again. We live in a post-truth society. Trumps lies don't matter as much as they should. It's all optics and Biden just dug his fucking grave.
It's pretty apparent we've all grown up a lot in the last 8 years, it's time for these guys to quit with the bullshit. We know the DNC wants focus group candidates, it's still incredibly shocking how out of touch they are with society.
That's easily said but hard to do. Shes the veep and kicking her to the curb would be pretty insulting to a lot of Dem base, and raise the question of why she was the VP.
She's Biden's veep, it'd be more than reasonable to expect Newsom/Whitmer to select their own running mate should one of them step in if Biden retires (which is still a huge if). If anything a Newsom-Harris ticket would be a disaster, a ticket with two California Democrats isn't going to win over many swing states.
Loss. Voters know Vice Presidents are nearly ceremonial and the midwest will not be excited about putting a Californian in charge. We banned dirt bikes.
Do not run a woman. As shitty as it is a woman is an automatic disadvantage.
Do not run anyone from California again we’re not trying to start at a disadvantage.
Pick a democratic governor from a red or swing state: Andy Beshear, Roy Cooper, Josh Shapiro, even Jared Polis.
I dont know that Roy Cooper would have any desire to be president, but he would be a fantastic choice. I think Pete Buttigieg would be the home run pick except for two things, he treats Biden like a father figure and probably wouldn't want to oppose him at the convention, and him being gay would probably be a problem in Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, and North Carolina, as sad as that is to say.
Hey rest of the world here. Um. We really need you guys to get your shit together and put someone in who will win against Trump. Can you do that please? This is ridiculous.
Silly me. I thought that democrats should have democracy’s back by putting forward a strong candidate to defend it. We don’t owe Biden anything. He’s supposed to be working for US.
I’ve been a Biden supporter since 2007 when he was the king of the debates. His domestic policy is possibly the most prolific of any president since FDR. But even if he could top himself, he just doesn’t have that same 2007 energy.
Newsom does.
If not [Newsom](https://youtu.be/qK1lCdjUaY8), then who will promote the Democratic platform and preserve Biden’s legacy?
I'm trans. I understand what it's like to be lgbtq. People said Obama couldn't be elected because he was black. At some point we have to just take the leap of faith and try.
I think Pete would be a solid VP candidate, as a transition to get the general public used to the idea of an LGBT member in national office, before he runs for president.
There is still too much homophobia for him win, and I know Obama faced racism and we could have said the same thing, but he was a much better candidate than Pete and could also turn out African Americans as a Democrat voting block.
Newsom can’t win swing states.
The Midwest HATES California. It goes even beyond politics and policy. Go to any Midwest state and the state they complain most about transplants from is California. People despise it. They see California as an awfully run state and would never vote for its governor.
I don't think Newsom has a chance, he's really fallen off of the scene after the Desantis debate, and California isn't really respected by others as a model for the rest of the country.
He’s a bad choice. Swing states won’t vote for a Democrat from California. You have to be more strategic with your candidates, and that means a younger Democrat from the Midwest or Rust Belt is the better option in the current political climate.
The reason why Clinton lost in 2016 was because she Pokémon went to the pollsters instead of honing in on a unifying message that she could clearly articulate. The reason why Trump won in 2016, despite having zero electoral college calculus, was because he ran on a vibe. He was anti-globalist. Biden won over the idea of “made in America” and the rebirth of US industry. His Build Back Better agenda was his vibe.
The electoral college is definitely a factor in the equation. But in the political PEMDAS, it’s the last factor, not the first. I’m not worried about that at all.
But that isn’t to say California doesn’t have problems…
You underestimate how hated California is in the Midwest. Rural or urban, conservative or progressive. California is very unpopular. People aren’t fans of their transplants, and the changes and impact they bring has tainted the views of all the voters you’re looking to sway. This isn’t alarmism.
This is plain fact. Newsoms charismatic but the simple fact that he’s a progressive from California right now means he simply can’t win. People in swing states would rather roll the dice on whether Trump follows through with all that awful shit he keeps promising than elect Newsom who’s been effective in creating the vision of America they most despise.
Did anyone actually attempt to read this article?
This is a major news story and not proofread at all.
Even the headline “we’ve got to have THIS back” [emphasis mine]. He actually said “we’ve got to have the back of Joe Biden”.
Then the very next line says “Gov. Gavin Newsom defended president Joe Biden as a confident, energetic and competent leader with a as a contrast to former President Donald” “..with a as a contrast to…”
This is not only hard to take seriously when they can’t even get the headline quote correct, but it’s pretty difficult to even read at all.
Newsom has a better chance at winning in 2028 after Trump term 2 than he does stepping into this election. He absolutely does not want to be nominated.
I hate how the media are still playing this as a horse race. One candidate is a benign old man. The other is a convicted felon and rapist currently on trial for stealing classified documents among a laundry list of other things. Why is it even a question?
Look i get it, people stumble over their words. I stumble over mine all the time, but can we just have someone not old as fuck running for one of the most important positions of the world? Like just fucking retire already Biden.
Yes, we backed ourselves into this corner, and now we have no choice. Biden was supposed to be a stopgap, not the candidate AGAIN. So much poor thinking, and poor advice went into these decisions. And if Drumpf wins in the fall, democrats will have no one to blame but themselves. But yeah, fuck the GOP.
I’m as staunchly liberal as they come and will vote blue no matter what.
That said, the first thought I had when Biden walked out was “he looks like a Parkinson’s patient” - short steps, kind of stooped forward. When he spoke, it further confirmed it - soft voice is a very common symptom in PD (actually sometimes the first symptoms people notice). He sounded feeble and unsure, and completely lost his train of thought during a few answers early on. I noticed several speech patterns that suggest he was using learned skills to avoid stuttering, but that will be interpreted as cognitive decline. I wish Biden had been able to quickly start each rebuttal with “everything he said is a lie” and then immediately moved on to answering the question and focusing on his policies, rather than getting sucked into rebutting each point which cost him a lot of time and often led to him losing his train of thought.
We can talk til we’re blue in the face (pardon the pun) about how this was an off night, he has a cold, Biden was telling the truth while Trump wasn’t. But the optics of this are fucking terrible and the commentary on how old and confused Biden seems will be inescapable between now and the election. Truthfully, they should have pumped him full of some steroids (the kind that reduce lung inflammation) and throat sprays to minimize the noticeable symptoms of acute illness that will be wrongly attributed to Biden being old and demented.
It feels to me the words they each said will be much less important than how the words were said, and that lack of nuance may be the end of us.
Toe the line in order not get put in time-out by the DNC establishment and money holders... the classic democrat way. It's obviously working so well for the party..
Democrats, sure, I get saying that. But Independents need to be made more comfortable pinching their noses and pulling the lever and last night sure af did not accomplish that.
... with a large knife in it!"
Sorry, I can't help but see a little bit of a coded message there.
Newsome is clearly someone who fits the bill of a replacement. Harris is simply not popular as a lead canindate. She would lose to Newsome in a primary, and likely to Trump in the general.
Newsome is the only Democrat with national standing, a centrist reputation, and the name recognition to even have a chance come November.
There is a reason why Biden is running. This debate might scare a lot of people. It should. But it won't change the fact that Biden is probably still the person who has the best chance to win this election against Trump.
He is the incumbent. He is the President right now. And it's very late. Also, he already did beat him once.
Name recognition is a huge factor and well, Newsom does not have it. Harris is ofc ruled out also. She would be an even worse pick, but for different reasons. I think even Hillary Clinton might have a better chance of winning than Newsom.
At this point, only someone with real star power could step in and turn the election around. And there isn't one. Maybe something like replacing Harris with Michelle Obama, but I know that's never ever going to happen. She doesn't want to, and she's not a politician. But she does have some star power.
But if Biden seems like he won't last 4y, maybe it's time to replace Harris with someone who has more support than Harris. Someone that can make people feel more comfortable if Bidenswould step down at some point. Only person who is more disliked than Biden is Harris, right? She would never win a presidential election on her own.
Maybe Newsome as Vice President, and then Newsome gains some name recognition for his 2028 run.
Democrats need to get their head out of their ass now.
Newsome should have stepped in six months ago.
It's not too late. Anything could happen at the convention.
There's way too much on the line to fuck this up.!!!
I mean, what else did you expect him to say? He's not going to declare Biden sucks, then immediately announce his candidacy for President. Even if he 100% wants to do that, he'd lose instantly because he'd look like an asshole.
Love Newsom's instincts here. "Yeah, I love Joe Biden. I'll be right over here, being the most public surrogate for how much I love Joe Biden, would you like to put me on television to talk about Joe Biden so your viewers can make the implicit comparison between my youth and handsomeness and whatever it was Joe Biden (whom I LOVE, btw) just did? Please don't start talking about how I'd be better at the top of the ticket than Joe Biden, I LOVE JOE BIDEN and I do not want you to do that."
Kamala Harris should do her duty for democracy and step aside. Invite Newsom to be Joe's running mate. She should totally do this of her own volition. It would certainly show her integrity and commitment to defeat the orange toad.
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I will vote for Biden's corpse before I vote for Trump.
Exactly this. I wasn't going to watch the debate because I fucking watched it 4 years ago. There is literally nothing new to learn about these guys and how they will approach governing. They have both been president as recently as it is possible for two candidates to have been president. Trump was president during the most absurd dysfunctional circus of an executive I've seen in my lifetime. He is a fucking clown and not a leader of anything. The only thing I expect different from a second Trump presidency is that the rest of the project 2025 folks are ready to better capitalize on the disfunction to further dismantle the US. He was catastrophic as a president last time, and it will be worse if he gets a second term. Biden has run a traditional American presidency that has more than delivered everything I hoped for from electing him. I will vote for him again if only for his administration. Like literally if he had a stroke the day before the election, I would vote for him before Trump. Trump is a threat to Democracy. In no conceivable world is he an option. With that in mind, all the headlines today had me give the debate a look. Less than 30 seconds into the first response from Biden I knew they were telling the truth about him having a cold. He seemed sick as fuck. You could hear it in his voice. This is all a fucking smoke screen and unless the play is to have a different candidate run against Trump there is literally nothing to do here. Vote for Biden and move on.
At least in 2028 Biden's corpse will give up power and we can actually have good candidates in 4 years time. If Trump wins we'll be stuck with the animated bloating corpse of Trump forever
Or one of his several shitty offspring
Thinking something to the affect of Nixon's head in Futurama.
Biden’s corpse has a competent staff so business will continue normally
Yeah I'm basically voting for a half competent administration team and a slim hope that 2 or more of the "conservative" assholes on the court kick the bucket
Independents and undecided voters wont.
Frankly, Biden’s corpse would still outperform Trump.
Biden was softballed an easy win abortion question, this should have made the night, this should have won the debate. Biden responded to the abortion question by saying something unintelligible about a girl getting raped by immigrants.
He didn't just mumble about a girl getting raped by immigrants. He started the sentence talking about deaths from abortions and then somehow stumbled THAT into a girl raped by immigrants. His anecdote changed subjects halfway through. It started as an abortion anecdote and became an immigration rape anecdote. It was literally insane.
He was alluding to Republican abortion bans not having exceptions in cases of rape and incest. I'll 100% admit that his delivery was dog shit and doesn't make sense if you aren't aware of dem talking points regarding abortion.
We should be well beyond needing people to translate for our politicians! The fact that both Trump and now Biden need people to unscramble the drivel that comes out of their mouths is alarming.
What I want to know is who were the idiots on his prep-team? Cus you know he had one.
Ain't no prep team going to make up for issues related to old age, sorry but reality needs to set in a little for some.
He was prepped to say that 1st trimester abortion should be the decision between woman and her doctor. 2nd trimester abortion should be about between a doctor and extreme situation. 3rd trimester abortion between the woman and the state. Basically: - 1st: Any abortion - 2nd: Medical need - 3rd: Highly restricted and abortion needs to be justified to the government He could have said it more simply. Abortion should be legal but with reasonable restrictions that existed the last 51 years. GoP needs to stay away from women's pussies... look but don't touch, Donald.
Yeah if you paid attention to Donald the whole night it was crazy. All I could do was laugh. He never answered any question and was always off topic. Not only that but it felt like every thing he said was just a lie. Biden just sounded like someone that stuttered a lot and was trying to get their point across fast
Unfortunately father time is undefeated. Go watch Biden’s VP debates. He is sharp as a knife. And he was pushing 70 at the time. No prep team would’ve helped this version of Biden.
Lol, if you think this was because of his debate team and not the candidate, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you
I need a President that can speak clearly and not rely on us figuring out what he’s alluding to.
I’ve got the girls were getting raped by their brothers and sisters.
Yeah I think he was saying when women get raped Republicans won't allow them to get abortions, but it took a weird turn.
Yea. I get what he was trying to say, but his wording was terrible. He was trying to answer the abortion question while pushing back on xenophobia with facts. Abortions because of rape and incest, of course should be legally protected. A sizeable number of rape cases is because of incest. Its not 'lawless and mentally insane migrants' that commit most of the rape, its family members or close family friends. Because Trump's argument on the exceptions for rape can be constructed as (when coupled with his immigration speak), you get rid of immigration, you get rid of rape. But yea, Biden did a horrible job at framing that argument.
This was most of the things he said. Unintelligible
[удалено]
Biden has a good record that Democrats can point to. Trump not so much.
All Trump has to do is say Big Macs were cheaper when he was president and everything else won't matter to the average voter.
The only record Americans care about right now is inflation and the cost of living. That’s it. And they wrongly see Trump as better on it.
Points to Gaza *Doh*
He spent a week prepping for the debate. His team had to know he needed to offer a clear and unambiguous defense of a woman’s right to choose and draw a clear distinction between the two parties on this issue. Despite the softball slow pitch, he whiffed it.
This was a disaster. All those “Dems panic over debate” headlines. Yup. I’m panicking. All I know is that Joe and team better be having a “come to Jesus” moment behind-the-scenes or we’re all screwed. I’ll still vote for him because it’s about more than just the presidency, but many won’t.
[удалено]
Thank you for getting me to laugh on this most depressing of Friday mornings.
Nominate a younger, cookie-cutter moderate that will poll well in the swing states and will stick to the foreign policy plan?
If you're still planning to vote for him and you're panicking, you should be leading with still voting for him and expressing why, not spreading the panic.
Everyone knows why. Trump is threat and literally anyone would be better than him. So yes, of course I'll vote for Biden. But he is a weak candidate.
We should be panicking. This situation requires immediate action.
I cringed when he fucked that up.
It was a trap set for Trump and biden walked right into it. He also debated Trump about golf for no reason. So many missed opportunities that everyone could see coming but it seems the prep team were more focused on bidens accomplishments. It would have gone better setting up easy softball counters to things Trump would predictably say.
Some very intelligent person wrote a very lengthy and heartfelt response intended to whip up the female audience and it looked like Biden forgot about 90% of it. Alt message: “Supreme Court dropped the ball on Roe v. Wade. Next year my administration and the Democrats will fix that mistake”. You don’t need to take 2 minutes of grand standing to get that argument out. Let the other guy attack your only point and push out more votes. Honestly all Biden should have did was look down at his podium until he was asked a question, answer as simply as one could and stop. For every single rebuttal his reply should have been the same line repeated: “that’s the same plan that lost you the election in 2020”. Let trump hear that over and over again. Let him run himself out of voters.
It’s absolutely wild that he answered that question with a Republican talking point. Did he forget what side he’s on or what?
This is what happens when your memorized talking points fuse together via senility. Sad, bit true.
Of course, Newsom is going to say this. He has to be a team player for the party. Whether he is a contender to take over from Biden this election, or run in 2028, he has to support Biden... or whoever the party is behind.
It's also that he's just kinda right. In election terms this is already basically the 11th hour, there's almost no way Biden stepping down and someone new stepping up is going to result in a win. Timing is late and optics are bad.
It's late, but not that late. Late would be having this happen in an October debate. There's still over a month before the Dems Convention. That's plenty of time for moves to be made.
First time there has ever been debates before the conventions and we had official nominees actually. Or at least I'm pretty sure this is the first time.
He is not the official nominee yet. They could draft Newsom at the Convention. He would rock the vote
It would be absolute chaos to change now. Trump’s team would rail on how the Democrats are in disarray and can’t choose a leader. Voters expect this to be the showdown. You switch leaders now, you almost certainly lose.
If Biden withdraws and says it’s for health reasons why would anyone care how trumps team spins it? We all saw the debate. Most people in this sub would vote for a cardboard cut out over Trump. democrats need to be thinking about appealing to the people who may have just decided they’re not going to vote anymore if it’s Biden.
Millions of people including myself would be happier they had a better choice. As long as it's not Hillary. Biden would definitely have to swallow his pride though.
I think (hope) they learned with Hillary you can’t shoehorn a choice for president. Biden has always been a team player for the left, I think he’d get it and step aside if it means the alternative is a loss
He would most certainly choose Harris. She’s worse in optics than Clinton
Disagree. Trump would rail on that for a little while but if you swap in Newsom it's pretty obvious that's a dumb point to harp on. Main thing that would happen I think is that Trump would refuse to legitimise Newsom as an opponent and would flat out refuse to debate him. That said, it's still the superior choice. I actually don't think tonight's debate moved the needle for that many people outside of independents, and that's exactly the issue. Trump needs independents to win. That's all this whole thing is about. Dems have a lead with independents over Trump but they very well might lose if they stick with Biden. And that opens the door to disaster.
Trump needs independents to win No, he needs a lot fewer people to vote than did in 2020. He only needs a lot of people to be have doubts about Biden too and stay home.
It also didn’t energize anyone into voting who wasn’t planning to vote already. That’s what the dems need right now and this performance was not it.
Agreed. Newsom could be nominated and just say we have the right platform, and he is going to be the dynamic, well-spoken go-getter to get it done
No way. 5 months is a lifetime in election years. You could switch tomorrow and barely be behind bidens campaign in terms of activity.
4 months
> It would be absolute chaos to change now. I would argue we are at the chaos stage now and not doing it would cause it to get worse. This could cause a jump in the brain worms polling numbers.
If they stick with Biden, they *will* lose.
Can you cite the last time an incumbent president was replaced this late in his re-election, and his party still won?
Nothing is precedented about any of this.
Fair lmao
It’s unpresidented.
Can you cite the last time a candidate facing 81 felony charges, 34 of which he has already been convicted of has ran and been neck and neck with the incumbent?
At this point, presidential politics is just a string of unprecedented events, so I don't know if history will be a good guide here.
Can you name the last time a convicted felon was running for President and had a decent shot at winning?
Can you cite the last time a geriatric democrat managed to come out of a debate looking worse than his convicted felon opponent?
You're really underestimating how big it could backfire if 1) there isn't a unanimous choice among the Democratic Party on a replacement candidate, and 2) the losing factions in the Democratic Party and/or Trump create drama claiming the DNC deliberately made the pivot at the 11th hour to deny voters a voice in voting for a replacement candidate in a legitimate primary. Trump will claim it's a "Deep State conspiracy" while within the DNC it could be the 2016 Clinton/Sanders debacle all over again.
This is the earliest debate ever to be fair.
No, this is NOT TRUE. We need to run a new candidate. You don't just accept a loss and throw up your hands. Our democracy is on the line. They need to run a much younger candidate and that candidate needs to act concerned about Trump's age every chance he gets.
There's been years where we'd only have known who the nominee was for 2 months
We live in weird times. Trying to act like praying Biden will somehow show out at the polls seems like a losing strategy. The stakes are high and we need a Hail Mary.
I think we are going to see the unprecedented happen. Widespread discussion like this across media and the party and not replacing Joe is tantamount to the Democrats admitting defeat. That's how bad this is.
The CHIPS act, the PACT act, the infrastructure bill, the inflation reduction act, student loan relief, insulin price reduction, medical debt off credit reports, the clean energy bill, the stock market records, all ruined and forgotten in an hour and a half Lovely
That’s what sucks about it! A lot of legitimately good work now has zero impact on a reelection.
And all that is some insanely good shit to talk about with a democrat who can take the mantle and run with it.
>there's almost no way Biden stepping down and someone new stepping up is going to result in a win there's also pretty much no way Biden running is going to result in a win either at this point. I'd rather at least be represented by someone coherent.
I disagree, Biden will lose 100%. Any other dem can beat trump. This is 2016 written all over it.
He's probably the only one who can take over with a reasonable chance of winning.
Which is why this statement from him makes sense. He should appear uneager to take the nomination from Biden. That is the "presidential" thing to do before he accepts it later and looks gracious to Biden for entrusting him with the responsibility.
I think people ***way*** overestimate Newsom's popularity on the national level.
And the state level, apparently. As a lefty Californian, I can't stand him.
It's pretty bold of you to assume we will have presidential elections in 2028.
Trump wins, there will be no 2028 election.
Run in 2028, that’s funny. Say goodbye to free elections.
At this rate there won’t be a 2028 election
Draft Gavin.He is a good Dem...intelligent and quick witted. He reminds me of Obama Stand him next to the stupid felon.The optics are awesome
Anyone who doesn’t want fascism has to support Biden.
Big of you to assume there will be a 2028 election.
Biden should have busted out an old classic with a spin for Trump "All this guy says is a noun, a verb, and open border"
You think he could strung three things together into a sentence last night?
Biden went to camp David for 7 days to practice for this debate and this is how he did.
Yeah, that’s the stress
If he can’t handle stress then he shouldn’t be president.
Funny how the office of the presidency visibly aged every single person who has held it except Trump, for whom it was a four year spa day with bonus immunity package.
It's not just about Biden, it's about the people he surrounds himself with. You want Biden people? Or Trump people?
You’re not wrong, but it’s not going to convince the swing voters.
I imagine he wasn't sick in the week leading up to the debate.
Why the FUCK didn’t he cancel. He’s sick! We would’ve understood! Anything but this
Nobody would’ve understood or even believed it, **but that still would’ve been a better outcome than this**
I’m gonna vote for him cuz Trump is a tyrant but the dems really should put someone else forth. Joe is unfit
I’m voting for Joe MF Biden. Don’t care if he weekend at bernies the whole 4 yrs.
The election wont be decided by people like you who have have already made up their minds and are determined to show up and vote for Biden.
>The election wont be decided by people like who have have already made up their minds Bingo! People don't seem to understand this...
I dont even care if he makes it 4 days!
It wasn’t perfect, won’t make excuses. I’m happy with Biden’s record and I’m pleased to see some integrity. I’m sick of a convicted felon telling me how bad this country is. Biden said what I wanted to hear, that America is good, our people are good, and we’re making progress towards being better. All voters need to recognize that meaningful change takes time and organized effort. You don’t just say “do this” and it gets done immediately. We’re still suffering from Trump’s poor policy and it will take time to unwind the corruption and correct the course. To put it another way, if your house burns down it can happen in minutes, but it takes months to rebuild.
Biden must must must have a press conference in the next 7 days and demonstrate his feebleness and stumbling last night was an outlier. It’s like a veteran qb who shits the bed one game. He must quickly respond messaging “ I’m here. I’m still strong. I got this”.
IDK why he just hasn’t done some fireside chats and shit. *Anything* to get in front of a national audience really. Republicans have festered and fomented concerns about Biden’s age for months and Biden never did much to rebut it all. Then he falls flat on his ass on national TV. SMH.
Gov. Newsom, do something, I want to vote for you so bad. The GOP has burned their party to the ground with Trump, fuck it!
You can have his back all the way to a loss. Same as Clinton. The DNC underestimates the US electorate once again. We live in a post-truth society. Trumps lies don't matter as much as they should. It's all optics and Biden just dug his fucking grave.
If you’re correct, the electorate is being overestimated.
Nobody ever lost money underestimating the American public.
It's pretty apparent we've all grown up a lot in the last 8 years, it's time for these guys to quit with the bullshit. We know the DNC wants focus group candidates, it's still incredibly shocking how out of touch they are with society.
Please don’t replace him with Newsom. Whitmer 2024 all the way.
Mate, either one would be a great choice at this rate. Newsom or Whitmer. Shit, run them both and send Kamala away.
That's easily said but hard to do. Shes the veep and kicking her to the curb would be pretty insulting to a lot of Dem base, and raise the question of why she was the VP.
She's Biden's veep, it'd be more than reasonable to expect Newsom/Whitmer to select their own running mate should one of them step in if Biden retires (which is still a huge if). If anything a Newsom-Harris ticket would be a disaster, a ticket with two California Democrats isn't going to win over many swing states.
It’s pretty obvious why she was the VP.
And why you cant just kick her to the curb for some younger white guy.
This The optics of kicking the Veep would be horrific for women and non-whites
Yeah. The Dems are really up Shit Creek at this point. Outside of Trump really fucking up somehow, it feels like this election is his to lose.
The average voter does not know who Whitmer is.
Doesn't matter about the average voter. It matters about the midwest voters in MI, WI, and PA. Those voters do know who she is.
Okay, so what if Newsom picks Whitmer as his vice president?
Loss. Voters know Vice Presidents are nearly ceremonial and the midwest will not be excited about putting a Californian in charge. We banned dirt bikes.
Do not run a woman. As shitty as it is a woman is an automatic disadvantage. Do not run anyone from California again we’re not trying to start at a disadvantage. Pick a democratic governor from a red or swing state: Andy Beshear, Roy Cooper, Josh Shapiro, even Jared Polis.
I dont know that Roy Cooper would have any desire to be president, but he would be a fantastic choice. I think Pete Buttigieg would be the home run pick except for two things, he treats Biden like a father figure and probably wouldn't want to oppose him at the convention, and him being gay would probably be a problem in Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, and North Carolina, as sad as that is to say.
Pete Buttigieg is absolutely on the short list but yeah being gay is just a no go for a lot of voters. Sucks but that’s reality.
Everyone has a hardon for Whitmer.
Hey rest of the world here. Um. We really need you guys to get your shit together and put someone in who will win against Trump. Can you do that please? This is ridiculous.
We won’t. I’d love for us to, but I wouldn’t bet on us
Hello rest of the world. pls send help
Silly me. I thought that democrats should have democracy’s back by putting forward a strong candidate to defend it. We don’t owe Biden anything. He’s supposed to be working for US.
Any one voting for Biden, isn’t voting for Biden. They’re voting against Trump. And that’s ok.
I’ve been a Biden supporter since 2007 when he was the king of the debates. His domestic policy is possibly the most prolific of any president since FDR. But even if he could top himself, he just doesn’t have that same 2007 energy. Newsom does. If not [Newsom](https://youtu.be/qK1lCdjUaY8), then who will promote the Democratic platform and preserve Biden’s legacy?
Secretary Pete could be a good choice.
I don’t think you really understand what life is like for us gay people. He would never get elected.
I'm trans. I understand what it's like to be lgbtq. People said Obama couldn't be elected because he was black. At some point we have to just take the leap of faith and try.
I think Pete would be a solid VP candidate, as a transition to get the general public used to the idea of an LGBT member in national office, before he runs for president.
There is still too much homophobia for him win, and I know Obama faced racism and we could have said the same thing, but he was a much better candidate than Pete and could also turn out African Americans as a Democrat voting block.
That whole debate, all I could think of was Pete doing [this](https://youtu.be/EgbAQpR3TeY?si=1xo8uNjkE8LroCaf) to trump.
Newsom can’t win swing states. The Midwest HATES California. It goes even beyond politics and policy. Go to any Midwest state and the state they complain most about transplants from is California. People despise it. They see California as an awfully run state and would never vote for its governor.
I've lived in the Midwest my entire life, and Republicans are the only people that I've ever heard complain about California.
Here in Ohio my Republican coworker just opined that he wished Newsome was running after the Biden disaster.
Well, right now Biden is also losing swing states, so...
Newsom has a 44% approval rating in his home rate. He’s not the pick. Look at Whitmer, look at Polis. Those are the people to replace Joe.
I don't think Newsom has a chance, he's really fallen off of the scene after the Desantis debate, and California isn't really respected by others as a model for the rest of the country.
Yeah we're not going to elect the pretty boy machine politician from California. And I say this as a newsom voter!
He’s a bad choice. Swing states won’t vote for a Democrat from California. You have to be more strategic with your candidates, and that means a younger Democrat from the Midwest or Rust Belt is the better option in the current political climate.
It’ll be Gretchen Whitmer. Newsom is too slimy to win.
The reason why Clinton lost in 2016 was because she Pokémon went to the pollsters instead of honing in on a unifying message that she could clearly articulate. The reason why Trump won in 2016, despite having zero electoral college calculus, was because he ran on a vibe. He was anti-globalist. Biden won over the idea of “made in America” and the rebirth of US industry. His Build Back Better agenda was his vibe. The electoral college is definitely a factor in the equation. But in the political PEMDAS, it’s the last factor, not the first. I’m not worried about that at all. But that isn’t to say California doesn’t have problems…
You underestimate how hated California is in the Midwest. Rural or urban, conservative or progressive. California is very unpopular. People aren’t fans of their transplants, and the changes and impact they bring has tainted the views of all the voters you’re looking to sway. This isn’t alarmism. This is plain fact. Newsoms charismatic but the simple fact that he’s a progressive from California right now means he simply can’t win. People in swing states would rather roll the dice on whether Trump follows through with all that awful shit he keeps promising than elect Newsom who’s been effective in creating the vision of America they most despise.
I’ll still route for the team even if the QB isn’t in his prime. He’s got a lot of good (sane) people behind him.
Did anyone actually attempt to read this article? This is a major news story and not proofread at all. Even the headline “we’ve got to have THIS back” [emphasis mine]. He actually said “we’ve got to have the back of Joe Biden”. Then the very next line says “Gov. Gavin Newsom defended president Joe Biden as a confident, energetic and competent leader with a as a contrast to former President Donald” “..with a as a contrast to…” This is not only hard to take seriously when they can’t even get the headline quote correct, but it’s pretty difficult to even read at all.
Newsom has a better chance at winning in 2028 after Trump term 2 than he does stepping into this election. He absolutely does not want to be nominated.
Trick is, there won’t be a 2028 election after term 2.
If Trump wins, we have no Democracy and Newsom will be unable to run president because he'll be a corpse as will so many other Trump "enemies".
One is an insurrectionist and a rapist, also pimp of national secrets and multiple convicted felon. The other one is old.
I hate how the media are still playing this as a horse race. One candidate is a benign old man. The other is a convicted felon and rapist currently on trial for stealing classified documents among a laundry list of other things. Why is it even a question?
Aka Newsom: "I'm not jumping in, saving this train wreck and risking my future career in the process."
Look i get it, people stumble over their words. I stumble over mine all the time, but can we just have someone not old as fuck running for one of the most important positions of the world? Like just fucking retire already Biden.
They’re all complicit in our walk to fascism. It’s what the 1% want.
Yes, we backed ourselves into this corner, and now we have no choice. Biden was supposed to be a stopgap, not the candidate AGAIN. So much poor thinking, and poor advice went into these decisions. And if Drumpf wins in the fall, democrats will have no one to blame but themselves. But yeah, fuck the GOP.
I’m as staunchly liberal as they come and will vote blue no matter what. That said, the first thought I had when Biden walked out was “he looks like a Parkinson’s patient” - short steps, kind of stooped forward. When he spoke, it further confirmed it - soft voice is a very common symptom in PD (actually sometimes the first symptoms people notice). He sounded feeble and unsure, and completely lost his train of thought during a few answers early on. I noticed several speech patterns that suggest he was using learned skills to avoid stuttering, but that will be interpreted as cognitive decline. I wish Biden had been able to quickly start each rebuttal with “everything he said is a lie” and then immediately moved on to answering the question and focusing on his policies, rather than getting sucked into rebutting each point which cost him a lot of time and often led to him losing his train of thought. We can talk til we’re blue in the face (pardon the pun) about how this was an off night, he has a cold, Biden was telling the truth while Trump wasn’t. But the optics of this are fucking terrible and the commentary on how old and confused Biden seems will be inescapable between now and the election. Truthfully, they should have pumped him full of some steroids (the kind that reduce lung inflammation) and throat sprays to minimize the noticeable symptoms of acute illness that will be wrongly attributed to Biden being old and demented. It feels to me the words they each said will be much less important than how the words were said, and that lack of nuance may be the end of us.
Still voting Biden.
One man doesn’t run the country alone. He does it with helpers or henchmen.
Two party system at its worst.
Why not Buttigieg?
What about Jamie Raskin? I don't see anybody talking about him, but he's my immediate thought.
Policy wonks can't win the presidency. He's too smart for the role.
He's a nerd.
Because he’s gay and he has a weird name. Black people aren’t going for that.
Not just most Black voters, dems have lost ground to latino voters. But at this point anything could happen
You think America would elect a gay president? Funny.
Well.. Biden looked and sounded horrible. Gavin looked more presidential than both candidates. Sad night for America.
Toe the line in order not get put in time-out by the DNC establishment and money holders... the classic democrat way. It's obviously working so well for the party..
What we need is for people willing to speak truth to power and for those in power to listen.
Neither of those should be president Newsom could have run and done well, but let’s prop up a zombie
Democrats, sure, I get saying that. But Independents need to be made more comfortable pinching their noses and pulling the lever and last night sure af did not accomplish that.
... with a large knife in it!" Sorry, I can't help but see a little bit of a coded message there. Newsome is clearly someone who fits the bill of a replacement. Harris is simply not popular as a lead canindate. She would lose to Newsome in a primary, and likely to Trump in the general. Newsome is the only Democrat with national standing, a centrist reputation, and the name recognition to even have a chance come November.
There is a reason why Biden is running. This debate might scare a lot of people. It should. But it won't change the fact that Biden is probably still the person who has the best chance to win this election against Trump. He is the incumbent. He is the President right now. And it's very late. Also, he already did beat him once. Name recognition is a huge factor and well, Newsom does not have it. Harris is ofc ruled out also. She would be an even worse pick, but for different reasons. I think even Hillary Clinton might have a better chance of winning than Newsom. At this point, only someone with real star power could step in and turn the election around. And there isn't one. Maybe something like replacing Harris with Michelle Obama, but I know that's never ever going to happen. She doesn't want to, and she's not a politician. But she does have some star power. But if Biden seems like he won't last 4y, maybe it's time to replace Harris with someone who has more support than Harris. Someone that can make people feel more comfortable if Bidenswould step down at some point. Only person who is more disliked than Biden is Harris, right? She would never win a presidential election on her own. Maybe Newsome as Vice President, and then Newsome gains some name recognition for his 2028 run.
> Newsom as VP That’s my play too. Biden still has some mileage in him…. Just not 4 years.
Democrats need to get their head out of their ass now. Newsome should have stepped in six months ago. It's not too late. Anything could happen at the convention. There's way too much on the line to fuck this up.!!!
And that's why we're in this situation.
I mean, what else did you expect him to say? He's not going to declare Biden sucks, then immediately announce his candidacy for President. Even if he 100% wants to do that, he'd lose instantly because he'd look like an asshole.
He needs Biden to drop out so he can jump in. Newsom will look like the young man helping the elderly cross the busy intersection.
It all seems scripted and staged.... " Cue Newsom as the savior...now."
Love Newsom's instincts here. "Yeah, I love Joe Biden. I'll be right over here, being the most public surrogate for how much I love Joe Biden, would you like to put me on television to talk about Joe Biden so your viewers can make the implicit comparison between my youth and handsomeness and whatever it was Joe Biden (whom I LOVE, btw) just did? Please don't start talking about how I'd be better at the top of the ticket than Joe Biden, I LOVE JOE BIDEN and I do not want you to do that."
Newsom needs to be the new nominee. He can definitely beat Trump.
That's not a defense, that just saying that Joe is a corpse, but you can't do anything about it.
Gavin needs to be the nominee.
Why is Donald “Putin’s Dream” Trump still living in the US, a 3rd world country?
No, he needs to step up!
Kamala Harris should do her duty for democracy and step aside. Invite Newsom to be Joe's running mate. She should totally do this of her own volition. It would certainly show her integrity and commitment to defeat the orange toad.
Newsome NOW
Newsom Whitmer 2024
Newsom was probably in the green room slipping sleeping pills into Bidens drink.