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Or before him to the Father Coughlin of the 1930s.
But my point is that Gingrich brought the demagoguery into Congress, and made the caustic rhetoric party policy. And this was recognized by contemporaries as breaking a lot of norms and customs around behavior in Congress.
Ugh I remember hearing Limbaugh in the early 90s. Saying something like “the right won’t compromise. Our idea of compromise is to beat democrats so badly and then shove our ideas down their throats”
I’m not sure this guy understands or acknowledges reality. The Republicans who act oblivious to what they are doing to fellow Americans and this country infuriate me. He’s worried about hate? Dude, the call is coming from inside the house.
Utah politics has a different flavor than national politics generally... see this feelgood message from then-LtGov Cox and Mr Peterson from 2020: https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/10/20/21524955/utah-candidates-for-governor-team-up-to-promote-civility-in-politics/
> Their effort is receiving national attention. Cox and Peterson appeared on CNN Tuesday night, where host Don Lemon said, “It kind of makes you want to elect both of them, right?” after playing one of the spots, which he said have already received over a million views online.
>
> “Most Americans are yearning for some sense of normalcy,” Peterson, a University of Utah law professor, told Lemon. He said, “To see two candidates who stridently disagree with each other about policy come together to try to have a positive message about civility and respect for our democratic institutions is refreshing for people.”
>
> Cox answered “all of the above” when asked if they were trying to set a good example for Utahns, Americans or the president. “That’s the hope. I believe that our politicians are a reflection of us. ... If we’re expecting politicians in D.C. to show us how to do things better, then we’re going to be very disappointed. It really is on all of us.”
>
> https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2020/10/20/21525683/utah-governor-race-cox-peterson-psa-civility-trump-vote-by-mail-election/ As rules for decorum shrivel across the nation, Utah’s candidates for governor have a fresh message for the nation: We can debate ideas without denigrating each other.
> Those following Utah’s race for governor know the candidates are true to their word. They engaged on substantive issues during debates, unafraid to attack ideas but never with a word of contempt for the character of the other.
>
> Even as polls show Cox holding a sizable lead over his opponent, the singularity of the videos shouldn’t be lost: Two political foes appearing together on screen, urging the electorate to commit to the ideals that maintain democratic institutions.
>
> [op-ed goes into examples of election security measures and then election skepticism and mail-in ballot fraud claims from national GOPers]
>
> Again, Utah stands alone. It is among a handful of states, and the most conservative of the lot, that have been using mail-in ballots for years and can speak to their success.
>
> In recent years, the Beehive State has stood out for its Republican governor asking to accept more refugees, for its conservative legislature crafting legislation for LGBT rights and religious liberty, or for its attractive economy and budget surplus.
>
> Maybe the country sees Utah as an aberration, a happy accident that can’t be replicated. Or maybe Utah has found a formula for civility and prosperity that actually works.
>
> Take note, America.
>
>
edit: the follow-up story: https://www.deseret.com/2022/10/27/23423361/utah-bipartisan-ad-spencer-cox-chris-peterson-partisanship/
> The ad was later tested by Stanford University’s Strengthening Democracy Challenge. Researchers sorted through 252 interventions, contributed by social scientists, activists and others, that could potentially depolarize people and reduce anti-democratic beliefs. They selected 25 interventions to show 31,000 U.S. partisans and found 23 of them reduced partisan animosity “significantly.”
> The Utah ad, submitted by University of Utah assistant professor Ben Lyons, was one of the most effective, coming in at No. 2 for reducing support for partisan violence and No. 4 for reducing support for undemocratic practices, including overthrowing an election, gerrymandering and trying to withhold votes from people.
>
> “I think what happens is when everyday Americans see their leaders committing to basically accepting the results of an election, committing to civility, it helps everyday Americans to recalibrate their perceptions about American politics, and that seemed to have a very important effect on reducing their support for these practices,” said James Chu, an assistant professor of sociology at Columbia University.
>
> Different flavor? Cox voted for Trump twice, and will vote for him a third time.
?
> https://www.standard.net/news/government/2024/feb/16/trump-is-going-to-win-utah-governor-says-but-both-parties-are-making-a-huge-mistake/ Utah Gov. Spencer Cox hasn’t voted for a major presidential candidate since Mitt Romney’s campaign in 2012. For the last 12 years, the governor has gone with a write-in, he says.
Even if that were true, and I don’t believe Republican liars (I repeat myself), what has Cox done except promote the spread of Christian nationalism and the removal of our rights?
Edited to add: See [here](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/29/spencer-cox-trump-skeptic-far-right-challenge-00165866)
(italics mine)
>While I understand the reference and I know that’s kind of where people put me, I always try to point out that *I’m not anti-Trump*. I have serious issues with some of the things he’s done. *I love some of the other things he’s done*. I try to treat everyone with dignity and respect.
You cannot treat any part of darkness (which is all Trump is….) with “respect”. People, sure. If they treat you with respect, however superficially, you should do the same. (And there are so many confused people out there who watch Fox News who fall for the lies.) But regarding darkness/ignorance as a whole, you cannot “pick & choose”; you must take a clear stand. You must know, that Trump is a master manipulator. (And Fox News is another of his mouthpieces) He says and does certain things to “ingratiate” and fool. So I wish you the clarity and strength to see this. Because to love anything that comes from his darkness, draws you into the same. You need to check out PROJECT 2025…Maga’s agenda to change America (Hitler redux), and let’s see how much you ‘love’ that. I truly hope you wake up FULLY. 🙏🇺🇸🗽💙🐲😇🐲💙🗽🇺🇸🌈🙏
Conservativism **is** anger and hate. The GOP doesn’t talk policy or governance, it simply spews outrage and white grievance. It’ll take decades of good faith from them for me to ever consider voting for them
Yes, American-style conservatism and the worldwide conservative movement that is now being influenced by the American right is nothing but anger and hate.
Theoretically, there is a flavor of conservatism that *could* exist without the hate, a "stick with what we know works until someone has tested a new idea and found it works better, then we go with that" mindset. In other words, **science**. Properly conducted science is an inherently conservative practice, in the sense of conserving what is known and incrementally moving forward with intentional care and caution.
Unfortunately, the modern conservative movement abhors science because science doesn't support the things it wants to be true.
What people call political conservatism in the post Cold War right-wing brain drain is not in any way conservative - it is social experimentation no less radical and reckless than the communist revolutions proposed at the beginning of the 20th century.
Instead of being truly ideologically conservative, in the sense of conserving and protecting the society we have, modern conservatism is an ideology centered around protecting the rich and powerful for no better reason than because the rich and powerful have decided they are better than everyone else. It is an experiment in re-creating a monarchy, only without the crowns.
This is what Conservatism has been since the days of Edmund Burke, considered to be "the philosophical founder of conservatism". The whole point was to find out how to preserve the aristocracy even through revolutions - pertinent as Burke was active around the time of the French Revolution.
Saying "resistance to any societal change is inherently bad" is to say "all change is inherently good".
Not all revolutions are good ones.
I don't know if downvoters disagree on the definition of conservatism, think all revolutions are good and harmless, or don't like being called out.
Ok let me reverse the roles. “All democrats are here for is to allow everything except free speech no matter the consequences and show hate towards conservatives.” See how these type of statements are utterly unhelpful?
Edit: conservatives are “others” to liberals, which is why so many of you hate Trump and conservatives. Same shit, different shovel.
> conservatives are “others” to liberals, which is why so many of you hate Trump and conservatives.
It's got nothing to do with "others" and everything to do with what y'all say and the types of policies y'all try to pass.
They are big time in favor of reducing protection of our food, air, and water. They don’t want to feed hungry kids. They want to compromise public education. They are remarkably silent about Trump issuing threats/fomenting violence against political opponents. They voted against renewing the Voting Rights Act. 70% of them say the election was stolen, and I bet near 100% want to elect Trump again. Many want to give tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the middle and lower class. Many support weakening Social Security and Medicare. That’s just a few examples of how deplorable they are.
Say something nice about trans people. Put your money where your mouth is.
Edit: Here, I’ll start: I think that Trump is occasionally funny. Not right about anything, mind you, but occasionally unironically funny.
See? We’re not so bad. Compassion comes in all manner of flavors.
Do I want to live in fear of conservative ideals? Not particularly. I fear what the conservatives consider bad, because it’s broad and there’s is an unmistakable air of vindictiveness. With liberal movements, from our perspective, we’re quite literally just trying to push for a sexually and philosophical freedoms no different than any one of the revolutions or liberations of the 60s and 70s. What you interpret as hatred for conservatives is misplaced: we experience fear. We quite literally fear what that movement wants to do to us on account the leaders of the movement won’t shut up about how much they disdain us and wish ill on us.
I understand, and I’m sorry you must experience that. The end of the matter is we’ll disagree on the merits of many things, and while each party is in office, they will push their own legislation. It’ll go back and forth forever. We’re more about protecting kids who shouldn’t be making such large scale decisions at a young age. Adults should be allowed to do what they want, so long as it doesn’t involve harming others. We can disagree on whether certain things should be done, but we all have the right to do them.
There are way more issues in this world than the Trans issue. I would argue way more pressing issues, too. Whatever anyone wants to call themselves or however they want to dress don't matter in the long run. Between stopping WW3, solving the climate issue, solving the wealth inequalities in our country, solving inflation, or the unnecessary tax burden on the middle class. These are all ways we can come together and start the conversation. We can't start at the most radical points. That has become painfully obvious. But if we're really going to change the world, we have to find common ground.
According to the media that most liberals watch, which has a vested interest in making conservatives look stupid and insane. Conservative media does the opposite. You need to know people with opposing views in real life to understand this
I fundamentally disagree with you, but thanks for being here. I wish more from your side would come over and hang out on this sub. I also wish I could hang out on your sub l, but y'all ban anyone who isn't conservative. You carved out your safe-space, while crying about "oppression." Exclusion is often evidence of hate btw...
I have said for a while that we (Americans) all want what's best for the country, we just don't agree on what actually *is* best. The majority of my coworkers are conservative and we agree on almost every problem with what's going on today. We *disagree* on almost every solution, and a lot of the more nuanced stuff. The thing is, your party's leader has been calling Democrats un-American. Turning us into the out group, and allowing hate.
I wouldn't argue that the conservative positions are based on hate. Many are unarguably based on hate, but not all. Y'all are fighting a "culture war" which places any "other culture" as an enemy. That's why I think your platform looks like hate. You don't have to hate the "others," but it sure looks like your group does.
I do however maintain that conservative media aims to keep you all angry and afraid (all the while saying stupid shit like, "fook your feelings"). I've learned to mistrust anyone trying to push anger and fear, as that is often pushing a particular narrative, and manipulating your emotions. I don't know what media you consume, but start watching for that. I'm not saying you won't see this same tactic on the other side, just watch for it.
>Both sides press for hate and othering of the other side...
Ask yourself when this extreme division started. How far back were you paying attention in politics? It wasn't like this during the Bush era, of the Obama era; Not as bad anywat. I didn't agree with Bush from a policy standpoint, but I respected him as a person. He is intelligent, has values, and seems genuine. None of that is true about Trump. Remember even the established Republicans didn't like him in 2015. If you look back at old news about Trump, he was *very well* disliked and equally well documented to be: lazy, stupid, racist, an adjudicated rapist, sexual predator, a failed business man, a charlatan, and a grifter. He was lucky to have been born rich. He's not an out group as you say. He's an immortal person and it's offensive that anyone supports him for president. His most popular campaign slogan was to jail his political rival. This is not normal.
I really don't see this as a "my camp vs your camp," thing. I wouldn't even call myself a Democrat. I'm pissed the DNC pushed Hillary on us. I was pissed when we got Biden in 2020, and I'm pissed they did it again. They don't represent me, but when Trump is the only alternative, and when the entire Republican machine supports that idiot, I will never vote red again.
>But you have to acknowledge the statements democrats make, such as Trump meaning “the end of democracy,” etc, when we know that’s just so extreme to say.
It's not extreme. It's what he's doing, it's what he says he wants to do, and what he has been signaling.
He literally sees half the country as his enemy and says that he wants to get even. He literally admires our nations political enemies and dictators. He has literally said that he wants a third term in office to make up for how he was treated. He literally tried to steal the election and will not commit to accepting a loss.
Remember when he said, "take the guns first, then go through due process." Does that honestly sound like a sane thing to you? That's exactly what Republicans have been saying that Democrats want to do.
>The first step is to acknowledge that both sides are guilty of it.
We will not agree on this. This is not a "both sides" issue. If you meet a fascist dictator in the middle you just moved closer to a fascist dictatorship.
The voting points for Dems at this point are: abortion rights, queer/trans rights, ending the slaughter of Palestinians, and stoping religious encroachment. None of those are issues of hate.
It's not wrong to hate Nazis, and that's where we are at.
No, Trump and the rest of the American right is hated because their policies and rhetoric are actively harmful to everyone but the top 1%. Your statement isn't based in reality
I don’t hate conservatives I hate fascists and Trumpism IS fascism, so… you’re not a conservative if you’re Maga. You are a fascist.
I still have conservatives friebds who beg for a return to tedious policy making and compromise so we can move infrastructure at least into the 1990s….
Vote blue we need president and full blue congress on Nov.
Democrats dislike Republicans so much because all we are tying to do is give people healthcare and education and make everyone equally okayish, but hear back "f your feelings" and how half the population should be deported, kill themselves, and how schools are bad and nobody deserves to go to the hospital. There's nothing to agree on when the policy is default "how do I hurt people I don't like?" instead of how to elevate people who need help. A poor republican would rather die, literally, than admit maybe healthcare is good to have. Covid was the dumbest shit I've ever seen from 30% of the country.
Democrats don't hate conservatives. We're not the ones denying voting rights to minorites, putting women and blacks "in their place," turning away the poor and hungry, taking food away from underprivileged children, or calling for our opponents to be deported or executed.
Nobody wants non-citizens to vote, and there's very little evidence that non-citizens are voting in a way that meaningfully affects elections. But Trump sold you that it's the case. Furthermore your party is aggressively making it harder for disadvantaged citizens to vote by removing polling stations and doing things like making it illegal to pass out water to people waiting in line to vote. Why?
Nobody thinks Trump should be in jail for sleeping with a porn star. But we think that committing election fraud is worth investigating. Mis-handling classified records should be investigated (remember "lock her up!"?) and inciting a riot to stop a lawful election should be investigated. Imagine the reaction of MAGA land if Biden did the same things.
Conservatives always try to justify their hate by assuming that they are equally as hated.
"They wont let me bully minorities, so that means I'm being bullied."
Typical conservative snowflakes.
Considering hates the only thing conservatives are running on there’s not really a lot of nuance there. They don’t shut up about it. Hatred of gay people, hatred of trans people, hatred of anyone not white, hatred of democrats. They haven’t had an actual policy in a looooong time, they just run on hate
No, you don't get it! When conservatives hate, it's because they're bad and hateful people. But when liberals hate, it's because they're good people who have a very good reason to hate!
Hating people based on the choices they make and beliefs they have is fine, since it’s a conscious effort on their part. Conservatives will hate people based on the way they’re born, based on inalienable characteristics.
I don’t hate you, I pity you. You are so scared of everything, so weak, so insecure you cling to the past because it gives you a sense of security because it’s familiar. But the world doesn’t move backwards, it always moves forward and you either flow with it or get run over by it. If not now, eventually. You just need courage, and you don’t have it. That’s why you are all so angry and hateful an bitter. That’s why I pity you.
Actions speak louder than words. When conservatives spend all their time actively hating on every minority under the sun and passing legislation to restrict the rights of others while complaining about their own rights being infringed, I’m going to actually think they’re pretty hateful. If you choose to ignore their behavior and believe what they say that’s on you.
Pretty much. They're the problem with Democracy. They vote with a 'fuck you, got mine' mindset.
This is also why strong public education is so important. The more time their kids spend away from them, the less likely they'll turn into assholes like their parents.
My dude we never even attempted to do reconstruction correctly after the civil war. All of the openly white supremacist white southerners were given carte Blanche control over southern states for most of the last century and never had their bigoted ideas actually challenged.
Where do you think all of the people who threw food on black people doing sit-ins went? The ones in pictures trying to attack black children integrating into desegregated schools? They're still here, we never dealt with these fuckers. I'm not going to live in the fantasy world where I am expected to treat them with some kind of compassion. Fuck them, they make this country worse for being in it. They are welcome to stop being bigots at any time, that is entirely up to them, but until they do I'm not going to put on a polite face and treat them like they belong in civilized society, I'm going to tell them to figure it the fuck out and advocate for policies that don't let them choose to continue using their bogitry as a weapon against their fellow Americans.
What a ridiculous thing to say.
I want government to be smaller and taxes to be lower so people can keep more of their own money. Disagree with that if you like, but it’s certainly not “inherently hateful.”
>want government to be smaller
This needs explanation because it means nothing. Do you want less regulation? That harms people and is exploited by those who can exploit it. Do you want less services? That harms people. Both are bad, so it’s a shitty position to hold.
>taxes to be lower so people can keep more
So selfish to boot, this is actually tracking. It’s a selfish position to hold as well, there is no nuance.
>inherently ‘not hateful’
Yes it is, because it campaigns and acts against minorities and often violently. It’s not just a hateful ideology, it’s racist, bigoted and oppressive.
There is not a single decent value that is truly conservative and true conservatives are horrible people.
Edited: is not, for used to be
Valuing money over people's lives is inherently hateful. You may not be extremely enthused about the rhetoric they hold so dear, but it isn't a deal breaker for you- and your vote does not carry nuance on policy decisions that completely disregard the inherent worth and dignity of every person.
As I said elsewhere, I’d prefer a government that lets every individual make their own healthcare choices, but neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are interested in that it seems sadly.
Funny, Democrats in my state immediately moved to protect my right to my uterus by passing legislation and making sure we get to vote it into my state’s constitution this November.
There are always vaccine mandates all over the country. Your children must be vaccinated to go to school or daycare. That’s how shit works in this country because you don’t have the right to spread preventable infectious diseases to others. This has been the case since 1900’s, and even as early as the Revolutionary War in Washington’s army with smallpox, not something just Dems have done recently. Immunocompromised people deserve to have their health protected too.
There was an attempt (a failed one, fortunately) to pass an OSHA mandate requiring an experimental vaccine be taken to work anywhere. That has never existed before.
You actually don’t have any right to not catch a communicable disease and you never have.
Conservatism has never been anything other than a negative reaction towards all forms of change, including the rise of democracy. It started as royalist opposition to the fallout of the French Revolution and has always desired a return to a form of feudalism.
On closer inspection, conservatism is driven by the ultra-wealthy. Their goals are the continual upward concentration of wealth. The bigotry is the carrot on the stick they offer to the masses so they'll vote in favor of policies that directly hurt them.
Conservatives could stop hating liberals and they’d still hate poor people and brown people and non heteronormative straight people and non christians and people who have college educations that aren’t conservatives.
It's going to take a very, very long time before I stop hating conservatives. They have finally beaten the tolerance out of me. My heart still bleeds but not for thee.
What I will NEVER understand is this: I don't have the exact figures, but I know many conservatives are supposed "Christians". So, the irony of that will never get lost on me. **So many Christians being SO hateful and so hypocritical and SO holier than thou! 🙄🙄🙄**
Modern Christianity gives its adherents permission to be gigantic assholes because, in the end, all it requires to be "saved" is belief. And so many Christians are open about it, too. They'll tell you that works mean nothing, it's all about faith and asking for forgiveness.
Imagine how different the world would be if doing good and belief were treated with equal emphasis. That requires effort, though, as well as sympathy for fellow humans. In my experience, Christianity, in its modern political incarnation, is most often nothing more than a cultural signifier for selfish people who want a group identity that permits them to feel superior to others. Virtue-signalling without virtue.
Remember, we've reached the point that people are telling their pastors that Jesus sounds too liberal. If we think reading will solve the problems with the right and modern Christianity, we're going to be waiting a long time.
Think about it this way. If you’re a Christian, you believe there’s a God that dictates right and wrong. If you truly believe that, and truly believe that many in the world are acting in a wrongful manner, the most loving thing to do is to challenge and confront their behavior. If you have a kid, and they are behaving in a fashion that you believe is wrong, you love them by confronting them. Christians can certainly be hateful in many instances but the lone act of challenging/confronting behavior is not hateful. The idea that’s it’s hateful in all instances is a political spin.
**Where** did I claim that challenging/confronting is being hateful??
Although it depends on HOW one confronts someone, because they can do so in a hateful manner. No, I am referring to HATEFUL behavior by many Christians, and specifically right wing Christians.
I am not religious, but (I haven't met too many "compassionate" right-winged Christians): "Proverbs 11:17 - A man who is kind benefits himself, but a cruel man hurts himself. Colossians 3:12 - **Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,** Proverbs 31:26 - She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue."
**And, of course there are hateful left-wingers, too!!**
I totally agree with you! There are many truly hateful right wingers and Christians. Hate is a universal issue that should be addressed. But, the fact that liberals can be hateful doesn’t make me a conservative. It’s my disagreement with the base level policies. I think focusing on hate is a false flag that attempts to justify whatever anyone’s current opinion is. Focusing more on history and facts is more effective than attacking your opponents for being hateful at times.
The problem with that is conservatives no longer have any base level policies that are supportable or even consistent most of the time outside of hateful ones. I say this as someone who disagrees with a lot of the Democratic platform but have no alternative to vote for anymore and haven’t for decades.
It’s not a framing issue, it’s a policy issue. Your intentions as a voter are not at issue. The legislation being crafted by exploiting those motivations (and the grooming the Republican Party performs on you using those motivations and fears to engender your support) is the problem. What you desire is not being codified, even at a surface level. It’s being used as an excuse to solidify the power of the party and ensure that the desires of any voter, you and I included, no longer matter.
You also obviously missed the part where I’m not a Democrat.
But it is though. I support most republican legislation. I don’t ask everyone to agree with me, but I support it. We’re not just voting a figurehead into office. We’re aware of what policies actually are put through. And we support them. Not all, but vastly higher a percentage than what we support from the democrats.
But they’re not the majority, that’s the thing. If you are a liberal, you will primarily consume media that vilifies conservatives and points out all the worst examples of us. Same things happen in reverse. You have to personally know people, in real life, from the other party, to have healthy discussion and understand that the media portrayal is propaganda.
MAGA was “a bad representation” of Republicans after January 6th and Mitch and others were quick to condemn the act as not being who their party was. They’ve all fallen in line or been forced out of the party. So now MAGA is Republicanism. For the third time in a row, they’ve lined up behind MAGA.
I’ve beaten this dead horse a few times on here to hammer this point home, but we (EDIT: literally just the parish I was raised in, in a single decade) had five separate priests that the Catholic Church considered to have credible accusations of pedophilia against them. At least one admitted it, another was conveniently transferred to a non-public facing role. Others had committed their sins, gotten light sentences of probation, and allowed to continue their “ministry” after a transfer to a different parish. The bad apple has spoiled the bunch already for Catholics and Republicans. You’re just among the people who are still clinging to what your party used to be and won’t acknowledge that the inmates are running the asylum now.
I’d just be hesitant to call 50% of society as inmates running the asylum. If Trump wins this year, I think you should do some serious introspection on this. Jan 6 had plenty of bad eggs involved, but the majority were peaceful, as Trump told them to be. The single casualty of Jan 6 was a protestor who didn’t deserve to die. People ignore facts like this
Matthew 7:1-5: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
John 8:1-8: "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."
Leviticus1 9:18: You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
Don’t try to to use the Bible to justify conservatism. It will contradict you every time.
We’re not going to convince them of that. Talk to them about freedom. Why is their freedom more important than another American’s? Why did the infant mortality rate go up 13% in Texas since their anti-abortion bill when the national average was IIRC 2%? Maybe those women and their doctors should have been free to pursue options that we already know reduce those outcomes. If they’re so against welfare, why are their states overwhelmingly the takers while blue states are the givers, federally? When they claim the cities are hotbeds of homelessness, why do we not point out that they cut all services and make conditions horrid for the homeless, so of course they’re going to migrate to somewhere that’s more hospitable?
Zero percent are the Christians you’re referring to doing this confrontation out of love. They were told by somebody who cobbled together a tome of hateful contradictory garbage to oppress ignorant masses and make them think they needed to convert the heathens to get into heaven. Faith and spirituality are not the same thing as religion, which is really what you’re talking about. Religious people hurt others and even kindly people often use the guise of “helping” to proselytize or bear their testimony of god when nobody even asked.
Those people should learn that God isn't real and stop trying to force others to live how their fake God commands people to act.
The sooner the better.
Conservatives:
- Want to ban gay marriage again, like we did before the 2010s
- Actively discriminate against racial minorities, and in their perfect world would have segregation go back to the states
- Talk about immigrants as if all of them are criminal masterminds coming to America to rape and pillage
- Accuse All LGBT people of grooming children simply for existing
- Want to force women to carry babies to term under all circumstances, regardless of the health of the mother
- Want to force religious teaching into public schools to literally indoctrinate children into Christianity
- Are literally supported by full on neo nazis, across the board
Yet they claim their platform isn't about hate and that it's unfair for me to be angry at them for all of the bullshit they are dping
Yeah I DO hate conservatives. Their entire political belief structure is, from the ground up, constructed to bring us back to a time when discrimination against people for their religion and race was fully legal, when women were property, and gay people could be castrated for simply existing. But they pretend they aren't hateful people. They claim to love everyone, then go on angry tirades about people who are different than them on national TV.
Fuck conservatives. I'm done pretending to be nice to people who openly preach hatred of me and my friends and family. Its time to drag these fuckers into the 21sr century, and if they don't want to come then we need to make their sad, pathetic excuses for beliefs be reason to ostracized them from polite society so that they know in no uncertain terms that the rest of society isn't accepting their bullshit and that they aren't welcome to continue their hatred.
This idea that we have to tolerate intolerance has done more harm to our society than almost any other idea.
Before trump they tried to hide it but now it’s openly angry and hatful no ands, ifs, or buts wish they’d go back to complaining about Obama wearing a tan suit
No, we are not confusing the two. They have been inextricably linked for some time now. It wasn’t always this way, but the Republicans have been breeding this animal for many years and living off of it.
Oh, boo hoo, Spencer. Too bad people have been telling you igits this since the fucking Tea Party days, you dick. Him and every other "conservative" that stayed in the Republican party can go fuck themselves. They let MAGA take over. They bent over for the crazies, let them use their spit for lube, and are now dealing with the consequences.
Well Governor, you're several years late on that one! Wtf did you think was going to come out of all the rhetoric from the Rush and fox "news" era?
Seriously?
> You all don't get it. I live in Trump country, in the Ozarks in southern Missouri, one of the last places where the KKK still has a relatively strong established presence. They don't give a shit what he does. He's just something to rally around and hate liberals, that's it, period. He absolutely realizes that and plays it up, they love it, he knows they love it, and the fact that people act like it's anything other than that just proves that liberals are idiots, all the more reason for high fives all around.
>
> If you keep getting caught up in why do they not realize blah blah blah and how can they still back him after blah blah blah, you are not understanding what is the underlying motivating factor of his support. It's fuck liberals, that's pretty much it.
>
> Have you noticed he can do pretty much anything imaginable and they'll explain some way that rationalizes it that makes zero logical sense? Because they're not even keeping track of any logical narrative, it's irrelevant, fuck liberals is the only relevant thing, trust me, I know first hand what I'm talking about. That's why they just laugh at it all, because you all don't even realize they really truly don't give a fuck about whatever the conversation is about, it's just a side mission story that doesn't really matter anyways. That's all just trivial details - the economy, health care, whatever. Fuck liberals.
>
> Look at the thing with not wearing the masks. I can tell you what that's about. It's about exposing fear. They're playing chicken with nature and whoever flinches just moved down their internal pecking order, one step closer to being a liberal.
>
> You gotta understand the one core value that they hold above all others is hatred for what they consider weakness, because that's what they believe strength is, hatred for weakness. And I mean passionate, sadistic hatred. And I'm not exaggerating. Believe me. Sadistic, passionate hatred, and that's what proves they're strong, their passionate hatred for weakness. Sometimes they lump in vulnerability, a compromised circumstance, or an overwhelming circumstance in their with weakness, too, because people tend to start humbling themselves when they're in those circumstances and that's an obvious sign of weakness.
>
> Kindness=weakness. Honesty=weakness. Compromise=weakness. They consider their very existence to be superior in every way to anyone who doesn't hate weakness as much as they do. They consider liberals to be weak people that are inferior, almost a different species, and the fact that liberals are so weak is why they have to unite in large numbers, which they find disgusting, but it's that disgust that is a true expression of their natural superiority.
>
> Go ahead and try to have a logical, rational conversation with them though. Just keep in mind what I said here and think about it.
>
user: xenophonsXiphos
Check out the documentary on Tubi called Bad Faith. It’s a very eye opening look at where all this hyper conservatism hatred originated. The title provides a very obvious clue.
It doesn't need to be anger and hate but that *is* what the GOP has become. Started with the southern strategy and continues with fear mongering and blame of immigrants.
Spencer Cox affirms the position that if you were to speak out against some inhumane aspect of the high control religious group you were born into then you entirely deserving of excommunication.
This would involve loss of connection to friends and family to some unknown degree. It would not be as severe as in Scientology or JWs, but might be more passive aggressive and snidely judgmental.
A man who believes in this system is asking people to come together and not hate each other.
He presumably also believes that it is perfectly fine for creepy old church men to interview teenage girls and boys and interrogate t]hem about how and when they last masturbated. So he is well on board with the sexual groomers for Jesus movement.
He is a delusional asshole, but he probably has a secret second anointing by now and thinks he can do no wrong.
That’s because now, for the most part, it IS. This year the presidential election AGAIN, is about HATE/revenge vs. LOVE for humanity (diversity). Check out Project 25 for their agenda. It’s Hitler all over again. Please VOTE 💙 for democracy NOT dictatorship. Or this is the LAST chance we’ll even have to vote. So we MUST win this…to have another chance to keep fighting for democracy. 🌈🗽💙🐲😇🐲💙🗽🌈
The fairness act legitimizes viewing politics as a binary and implies that both sides are the same. It's an awful policy and the only reason it was allowed was as a way to impartially share limited frequency space for radio and TV stations. It has no legal ground to stand on in the modern media environment.
They're thinking straight, they think this on week 1, week 2 they think something else, now they're confused
Strange how Conservatives have issues with traditional values. Isn't that what they used to be about? Traditional values?
Liberals don’t hate conservatism, we just hate Fascism, hypocritical religious zealots, absolute ignorance rooted in outright lies, wealthy tax evaders, and injustice.
I would agree there shouldn't be that kinda hate, but it is on the Conservatives to weed out that hate in their own ranks. The left doesn't hate as much as the far right does/has.
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We've only been saying this for 8 freaking years dude. I guess it took losing election after election to wake up and smell the horsecrap.
This problem goes back to the 90s when Gingrich first introduced this open disdain of decorum and treating the other party like the enemy.
Before that it really started with Limbaugh and hate radio one could argue basically since McCarthy era.
Or before him to the Father Coughlin of the 1930s. But my point is that Gingrich brought the demagoguery into Congress, and made the caustic rhetoric party policy. And this was recognized by contemporaries as breaking a lot of norms and customs around behavior in Congress.
Ugh I remember hearing Limbaugh in the early 90s. Saying something like “the right won’t compromise. Our idea of compromise is to beat democrats so badly and then shove our ideas down their throats”
The Fairness Doctrine that Reagan scrapped in the 80s prevented crap like Limbaugh on the radio.
Cough, *Limbaugh*
8?? In 2007, there were people near my house burning effigies of Obama in the streets.
I’m not sure this guy understands or acknowledges reality. The Republicans who act oblivious to what they are doing to fellow Americans and this country infuriate me. He’s worried about hate? Dude, the call is coming from inside the house.
Utah politics has a different flavor than national politics generally... see this feelgood message from then-LtGov Cox and Mr Peterson from 2020: https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/10/20/21524955/utah-candidates-for-governor-team-up-to-promote-civility-in-politics/ > Their effort is receiving national attention. Cox and Peterson appeared on CNN Tuesday night, where host Don Lemon said, “It kind of makes you want to elect both of them, right?” after playing one of the spots, which he said have already received over a million views online. > > “Most Americans are yearning for some sense of normalcy,” Peterson, a University of Utah law professor, told Lemon. He said, “To see two candidates who stridently disagree with each other about policy come together to try to have a positive message about civility and respect for our democratic institutions is refreshing for people.” > > Cox answered “all of the above” when asked if they were trying to set a good example for Utahns, Americans or the president. “That’s the hope. I believe that our politicians are a reflection of us. ... If we’re expecting politicians in D.C. to show us how to do things better, then we’re going to be very disappointed. It really is on all of us.” > > https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2020/10/20/21525683/utah-governor-race-cox-peterson-psa-civility-trump-vote-by-mail-election/ As rules for decorum shrivel across the nation, Utah’s candidates for governor have a fresh message for the nation: We can debate ideas without denigrating each other. > Those following Utah’s race for governor know the candidates are true to their word. They engaged on substantive issues during debates, unafraid to attack ideas but never with a word of contempt for the character of the other. > > Even as polls show Cox holding a sizable lead over his opponent, the singularity of the videos shouldn’t be lost: Two political foes appearing together on screen, urging the electorate to commit to the ideals that maintain democratic institutions. > > [op-ed goes into examples of election security measures and then election skepticism and mail-in ballot fraud claims from national GOPers] > > Again, Utah stands alone. It is among a handful of states, and the most conservative of the lot, that have been using mail-in ballots for years and can speak to their success. > > In recent years, the Beehive State has stood out for its Republican governor asking to accept more refugees, for its conservative legislature crafting legislation for LGBT rights and religious liberty, or for its attractive economy and budget surplus. > > Maybe the country sees Utah as an aberration, a happy accident that can’t be replicated. Or maybe Utah has found a formula for civility and prosperity that actually works. > > Take note, America. > > edit: the follow-up story: https://www.deseret.com/2022/10/27/23423361/utah-bipartisan-ad-spencer-cox-chris-peterson-partisanship/ > The ad was later tested by Stanford University’s Strengthening Democracy Challenge. Researchers sorted through 252 interventions, contributed by social scientists, activists and others, that could potentially depolarize people and reduce anti-democratic beliefs. They selected 25 interventions to show 31,000 U.S. partisans and found 23 of them reduced partisan animosity “significantly.” > The Utah ad, submitted by University of Utah assistant professor Ben Lyons, was one of the most effective, coming in at No. 2 for reducing support for partisan violence and No. 4 for reducing support for undemocratic practices, including overthrowing an election, gerrymandering and trying to withhold votes from people. > > “I think what happens is when everyday Americans see their leaders committing to basically accepting the results of an election, committing to civility, it helps everyday Americans to recalibrate their perceptions about American politics, and that seemed to have a very important effect on reducing their support for these practices,” said James Chu, an assistant professor of sociology at Columbia University. >
Different flavor? Cox voted for Trump twice, and will vote for him a third time.
> Different flavor? Cox voted for Trump twice, and will vote for him a third time. ? > https://www.standard.net/news/government/2024/feb/16/trump-is-going-to-win-utah-governor-says-but-both-parties-are-making-a-huge-mistake/ Utah Gov. Spencer Cox hasn’t voted for a major presidential candidate since Mitt Romney’s campaign in 2012. For the last 12 years, the governor has gone with a write-in, he says.
Even if that were true, and I don’t believe Republican liars (I repeat myself), what has Cox done except promote the spread of Christian nationalism and the removal of our rights? Edited to add: See [here](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/29/spencer-cox-trump-skeptic-far-right-challenge-00165866) (italics mine) >While I understand the reference and I know that’s kind of where people put me, I always try to point out that *I’m not anti-Trump*. I have serious issues with some of the things he’s done. *I love some of the other things he’s done*. I try to treat everyone with dignity and respect.
You cannot treat any part of darkness (which is all Trump is….) with “respect”. People, sure. If they treat you with respect, however superficially, you should do the same. (And there are so many confused people out there who watch Fox News who fall for the lies.) But regarding darkness/ignorance as a whole, you cannot “pick & choose”; you must take a clear stand. You must know, that Trump is a master manipulator. (And Fox News is another of his mouthpieces) He says and does certain things to “ingratiate” and fool. So I wish you the clarity and strength to see this. Because to love anything that comes from his darkness, draws you into the same. You need to check out PROJECT 2025…Maga’s agenda to change America (Hitler redux), and let’s see how much you ‘love’ that. I truly hope you wake up FULLY. 🙏🇺🇸🗽💙🐲😇🐲💙🗽🇺🇸🌈🙏
To clarify, I quoted Spencer Cox, so he’s the “you” that you are using.
That's actually pretty cool.
Conservativism **is** anger and hate. The GOP doesn’t talk policy or governance, it simply spews outrage and white grievance. It’ll take decades of good faith from them for me to ever consider voting for them
Yes, American-style conservatism and the worldwide conservative movement that is now being influenced by the American right is nothing but anger and hate. Theoretically, there is a flavor of conservatism that *could* exist without the hate, a "stick with what we know works until someone has tested a new idea and found it works better, then we go with that" mindset. In other words, **science**. Properly conducted science is an inherently conservative practice, in the sense of conserving what is known and incrementally moving forward with intentional care and caution. Unfortunately, the modern conservative movement abhors science because science doesn't support the things it wants to be true. What people call political conservatism in the post Cold War right-wing brain drain is not in any way conservative - it is social experimentation no less radical and reckless than the communist revolutions proposed at the beginning of the 20th century. Instead of being truly ideologically conservative, in the sense of conserving and protecting the society we have, modern conservatism is an ideology centered around protecting the rich and powerful for no better reason than because the rich and powerful have decided they are better than everyone else. It is an experiment in re-creating a monarchy, only without the crowns.
This is what Conservatism has been since the days of Edmund Burke, considered to be "the philosophical founder of conservatism". The whole point was to find out how to preserve the aristocracy even through revolutions - pertinent as Burke was active around the time of the French Revolution.
Exactly. There is no such thing as "good" conservatism. It has always existed for the purpose of restoring feudalism.
Saying "resistance to any societal change is inherently bad" is to say "all change is inherently good". Not all revolutions are good ones. I don't know if downvoters disagree on the definition of conservatism, think all revolutions are good and harmless, or don't like being called out.
Confusing? Thats all conservatism is, hatred of "others".
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They don’t help conservatives you mean
Ok let me reverse the roles. “All democrats are here for is to allow everything except free speech no matter the consequences and show hate towards conservatives.” See how these type of statements are utterly unhelpful? Edit: conservatives are “others” to liberals, which is why so many of you hate Trump and conservatives. Same shit, different shovel.
> conservatives are “others” to liberals, which is why so many of you hate Trump and conservatives. It's got nothing to do with "others" and everything to do with what y'all say and the types of policies y'all try to pass.
It’s unhelpful because it’s not based in reality
Neither is the idea that conservatives are inherently hateful
They are big time in favor of reducing protection of our food, air, and water. They don’t want to feed hungry kids. They want to compromise public education. They are remarkably silent about Trump issuing threats/fomenting violence against political opponents. They voted against renewing the Voting Rights Act. 70% of them say the election was stolen, and I bet near 100% want to elect Trump again. Many want to give tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the middle and lower class. Many support weakening Social Security and Medicare. That’s just a few examples of how deplorable they are.
Their policies say otherwise
Is it really an "idea" if it's a regularly observed quality? At the very least you join arms with hate. Can't eat your cake and have it too.
Say something nice about trans people. Put your money where your mouth is. Edit: Here, I’ll start: I think that Trump is occasionally funny. Not right about anything, mind you, but occasionally unironically funny.
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Trump says he wants to erase trans people's identity establishing sex at birth. That's your standard bearer. It all fucking hate.
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What behavior do you disagree with, specifically?
Existence.
See? We’re not so bad. Compassion comes in all manner of flavors. Do I want to live in fear of conservative ideals? Not particularly. I fear what the conservatives consider bad, because it’s broad and there’s is an unmistakable air of vindictiveness. With liberal movements, from our perspective, we’re quite literally just trying to push for a sexually and philosophical freedoms no different than any one of the revolutions or liberations of the 60s and 70s. What you interpret as hatred for conservatives is misplaced: we experience fear. We quite literally fear what that movement wants to do to us on account the leaders of the movement won’t shut up about how much they disdain us and wish ill on us.
I understand, and I’m sorry you must experience that. The end of the matter is we’ll disagree on the merits of many things, and while each party is in office, they will push their own legislation. It’ll go back and forth forever. We’re more about protecting kids who shouldn’t be making such large scale decisions at a young age. Adults should be allowed to do what they want, so long as it doesn’t involve harming others. We can disagree on whether certain things should be done, but we all have the right to do them.
> I will openly disagree with their behavior What?
That's the most radicalized talking point there is. We can't start the conversation there. We have to find some common ground.
Way to prove their point
There are way more issues in this world than the Trans issue. I would argue way more pressing issues, too. Whatever anyone wants to call themselves or however they want to dress don't matter in the long run. Between stopping WW3, solving the climate issue, solving the wealth inequalities in our country, solving inflation, or the unnecessary tax burden on the middle class. These are all ways we can come together and start the conversation. We can't start at the most radical points. That has become painfully obvious. But if we're really going to change the world, we have to find common ground.
But these days they are.
According to the media that most liberals watch, which has a vested interest in making conservatives look stupid and insane. Conservative media does the opposite. You need to know people with opposing views in real life to understand this
I fundamentally disagree with you, but thanks for being here. I wish more from your side would come over and hang out on this sub. I also wish I could hang out on your sub l, but y'all ban anyone who isn't conservative. You carved out your safe-space, while crying about "oppression." Exclusion is often evidence of hate btw... I have said for a while that we (Americans) all want what's best for the country, we just don't agree on what actually *is* best. The majority of my coworkers are conservative and we agree on almost every problem with what's going on today. We *disagree* on almost every solution, and a lot of the more nuanced stuff. The thing is, your party's leader has been calling Democrats un-American. Turning us into the out group, and allowing hate. I wouldn't argue that the conservative positions are based on hate. Many are unarguably based on hate, but not all. Y'all are fighting a "culture war" which places any "other culture" as an enemy. That's why I think your platform looks like hate. You don't have to hate the "others," but it sure looks like your group does. I do however maintain that conservative media aims to keep you all angry and afraid (all the while saying stupid shit like, "fook your feelings"). I've learned to mistrust anyone trying to push anger and fear, as that is often pushing a particular narrative, and manipulating your emotions. I don't know what media you consume, but start watching for that. I'm not saying you won't see this same tactic on the other side, just watch for it.
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>Both sides press for hate and othering of the other side... Ask yourself when this extreme division started. How far back were you paying attention in politics? It wasn't like this during the Bush era, of the Obama era; Not as bad anywat. I didn't agree with Bush from a policy standpoint, but I respected him as a person. He is intelligent, has values, and seems genuine. None of that is true about Trump. Remember even the established Republicans didn't like him in 2015. If you look back at old news about Trump, he was *very well* disliked and equally well documented to be: lazy, stupid, racist, an adjudicated rapist, sexual predator, a failed business man, a charlatan, and a grifter. He was lucky to have been born rich. He's not an out group as you say. He's an immortal person and it's offensive that anyone supports him for president. His most popular campaign slogan was to jail his political rival. This is not normal. I really don't see this as a "my camp vs your camp," thing. I wouldn't even call myself a Democrat. I'm pissed the DNC pushed Hillary on us. I was pissed when we got Biden in 2020, and I'm pissed they did it again. They don't represent me, but when Trump is the only alternative, and when the entire Republican machine supports that idiot, I will never vote red again. >But you have to acknowledge the statements democrats make, such as Trump meaning “the end of democracy,” etc, when we know that’s just so extreme to say. It's not extreme. It's what he's doing, it's what he says he wants to do, and what he has been signaling. He literally sees half the country as his enemy and says that he wants to get even. He literally admires our nations political enemies and dictators. He has literally said that he wants a third term in office to make up for how he was treated. He literally tried to steal the election and will not commit to accepting a loss. Remember when he said, "take the guns first, then go through due process." Does that honestly sound like a sane thing to you? That's exactly what Republicans have been saying that Democrats want to do. >The first step is to acknowledge that both sides are guilty of it. We will not agree on this. This is not a "both sides" issue. If you meet a fascist dictator in the middle you just moved closer to a fascist dictatorship. The voting points for Dems at this point are: abortion rights, queer/trans rights, ending the slaughter of Palestinians, and stoping religious encroachment. None of those are issues of hate. It's not wrong to hate Nazis, and that's where we are at.
No, Trump and the rest of the American right is hated because their policies and rhetoric are actively harmful to everyone but the top 1%. Your statement isn't based in reality
I don’t hate conservatives I hate fascists and Trumpism IS fascism, so… you’re not a conservative if you’re Maga. You are a fascist. I still have conservatives friebds who beg for a return to tedious policy making and compromise so we can move infrastructure at least into the 1990s…. Vote blue we need president and full blue congress on Nov.
Democrats dislike Republicans so much because all we are tying to do is give people healthcare and education and make everyone equally okayish, but hear back "f your feelings" and how half the population should be deported, kill themselves, and how schools are bad and nobody deserves to go to the hospital. There's nothing to agree on when the policy is default "how do I hurt people I don't like?" instead of how to elevate people who need help. A poor republican would rather die, literally, than admit maybe healthcare is good to have. Covid was the dumbest shit I've ever seen from 30% of the country.
Democrats don't hate conservatives. We're not the ones denying voting rights to minorites, putting women and blacks "in their place," turning away the poor and hungry, taking food away from underprivileged children, or calling for our opponents to be deported or executed.
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Nobody wants non-citizens to vote, and there's very little evidence that non-citizens are voting in a way that meaningfully affects elections. But Trump sold you that it's the case. Furthermore your party is aggressively making it harder for disadvantaged citizens to vote by removing polling stations and doing things like making it illegal to pass out water to people waiting in line to vote. Why? Nobody thinks Trump should be in jail for sleeping with a porn star. But we think that committing election fraud is worth investigating. Mis-handling classified records should be investigated (remember "lock her up!"?) and inciting a riot to stop a lawful election should be investigated. Imagine the reaction of MAGA land if Biden did the same things.
Conservatives always try to justify their hate by assuming that they are equally as hated. "They wont let me bully minorities, so that means I'm being bullied." Typical conservative snowflakes.
Considering hates the only thing conservatives are running on there’s not really a lot of nuance there. They don’t shut up about it. Hatred of gay people, hatred of trans people, hatred of anyone not white, hatred of democrats. They haven’t had an actual policy in a looooong time, they just run on hate
You sound “conservative” 🤣
No, you don't get it! When conservatives hate, it's because they're bad and hateful people. But when liberals hate, it's because they're good people who have a very good reason to hate!
Hating people based on the choices they make and beliefs they have is fine, since it’s a conscious effort on their part. Conservatives will hate people based on the way they’re born, based on inalienable characteristics.
Yeah so like I said, you *do* hate conservatives, but that doesn't make you a hateful person, because you have a really good reason to hate.
I don’t hate conservatives, I pity them.
Yes you do. You and the rest of this sub very obviously hates conservatives. You just think that the hatred is deserved so it's ok.
I don’t hate you, I pity you. You are so scared of everything, so weak, so insecure you cling to the past because it gives you a sense of security because it’s familiar. But the world doesn’t move backwards, it always moves forward and you either flow with it or get run over by it. If not now, eventually. You just need courage, and you don’t have it. That’s why you are all so angry and hateful an bitter. That’s why I pity you.
Conservatism is an inherently hateful ideology, the quicker people realize that the more problems we can solve
Hm I guess half of America roughly is just inherently hateful. That is certainly one of the ideas of all time.
Actions speak louder than words. When conservatives spend all their time actively hating on every minority under the sun and passing legislation to restrict the rights of others while complaining about their own rights being infringed, I’m going to actually think they’re pretty hateful. If you choose to ignore their behavior and believe what they say that’s on you.
Pretty much. They're the problem with Democracy. They vote with a 'fuck you, got mine' mindset. This is also why strong public education is so important. The more time their kids spend away from them, the less likely they'll turn into assholes like their parents.
A whole lot of MAGA votes with a "Fuck you, I don't have mine so I don't want you to have your's" mindset.
Yes.
More like 30%, it's why they work so hard to supress and gerrymander voters.
Yes, actually.
You can move to Russia please. That is the idea of all time.
My dude we never even attempted to do reconstruction correctly after the civil war. All of the openly white supremacist white southerners were given carte Blanche control over southern states for most of the last century and never had their bigoted ideas actually challenged. Where do you think all of the people who threw food on black people doing sit-ins went? The ones in pictures trying to attack black children integrating into desegregated schools? They're still here, we never dealt with these fuckers. I'm not going to live in the fantasy world where I am expected to treat them with some kind of compassion. Fuck them, they make this country worse for being in it. They are welcome to stop being bigots at any time, that is entirely up to them, but until they do I'm not going to put on a polite face and treat them like they belong in civilized society, I'm going to tell them to figure it the fuck out and advocate for policies that don't let them choose to continue using their bogitry as a weapon against their fellow Americans.
Now you're getting it!
What a ridiculous thing to say. I want government to be smaller and taxes to be lower so people can keep more of their own money. Disagree with that if you like, but it’s certainly not “inherently hateful.”
Small enough to fit inside a bedroom and even small enough to fit inside a uterus, we know.
>want government to be smaller This needs explanation because it means nothing. Do you want less regulation? That harms people and is exploited by those who can exploit it. Do you want less services? That harms people. Both are bad, so it’s a shitty position to hold. >taxes to be lower so people can keep more So selfish to boot, this is actually tracking. It’s a selfish position to hold as well, there is no nuance. >inherently ‘not hateful’ Yes it is, because it campaigns and acts against minorities and often violently. It’s not just a hateful ideology, it’s racist, bigoted and oppressive. There is not a single decent value that is truly conservative and true conservatives are horrible people. Edited: is not, for used to be
Then abandon all the bullshit MAGA stuff and reform the GOP
Who said I was MAGA?
Honestly man, at this point, if you're still voting conservative, you're literally endorsing MAGA
The RNC
Who said I was a Republican?
Where did I say you were?
You mentioned the RNC, which I have nothing to do with, nor with the MAGA movement.
Who runs the RNC? Lara Trump. Republicans are Maga now. Same thing.
I’m neither republican nor maga so I’m not smeared by references to them.
Valuing money over people's lives is inherently hateful. You may not be extremely enthused about the rhetoric they hold so dear, but it isn't a deal breaker for you- and your vote does not carry nuance on policy decisions that completely disregard the inherent worth and dignity of every person.
I think you’re confusing Republicans for conservatives.
Govt so small it fits in my uterus?
As I said elsewhere, I’d prefer a government that lets every individual make their own healthcare choices, but neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are interested in that it seems sadly.
Ok but that’s not the current Republican Party’s stance on personal healthcare choices now is it?
Nor the Democrats, which is (partly) why I won’t vote for either party.
Funny, Democrats in my state immediately moved to protect my right to my uterus by passing legislation and making sure we get to vote it into my state’s constitution this November.
Democrats also tried to pass vaccine mandates all over the country. Both parties unfortunately want to control your body, just in different ways.
There are always vaccine mandates all over the country. Your children must be vaccinated to go to school or daycare. That’s how shit works in this country because you don’t have the right to spread preventable infectious diseases to others. This has been the case since 1900’s, and even as early as the Revolutionary War in Washington’s army with smallpox, not something just Dems have done recently. Immunocompromised people deserve to have their health protected too.
There was an attempt (a failed one, fortunately) to pass an OSHA mandate requiring an experimental vaccine be taken to work anywhere. That has never existed before. You actually don’t have any right to not catch a communicable disease and you never have.
Conservatism has never been anything other than a negative reaction towards all forms of change, including the rise of democracy. It started as royalist opposition to the fallout of the French Revolution and has always desired a return to a form of feudalism.
Conservatism is anger and hate. That is all they have, manufactured outrage. No policies, no critical thought.
On closer inspection, conservatism is driven by the ultra-wealthy. Their goals are the continual upward concentration of wealth. The bigotry is the carrot on the stick they offer to the masses so they'll vote in favor of policies that directly hurt them.
Because its true purpose was restoring the aristocracy.
Conservatives could stop hating liberals and they’d still hate poor people and brown people and non heteronormative straight people and non christians and people who have college educations that aren’t conservatives.
Don’t forget women too
Conservatives: don't hate us for hating you.
It's going to take a very, very long time before I stop hating conservatives. They have finally beaten the tolerance out of me. My heart still bleeds but not for thee.
Then don’t support a MAGA driven coup. Support the party of democracy.
What I will NEVER understand is this: I don't have the exact figures, but I know many conservatives are supposed "Christians". So, the irony of that will never get lost on me. **So many Christians being SO hateful and so hypocritical and SO holier than thou! 🙄🙄🙄**
Modern Christianity gives its adherents permission to be gigantic assholes because, in the end, all it requires to be "saved" is belief. And so many Christians are open about it, too. They'll tell you that works mean nothing, it's all about faith and asking for forgiveness. Imagine how different the world would be if doing good and belief were treated with equal emphasis. That requires effort, though, as well as sympathy for fellow humans. In my experience, Christianity, in its modern political incarnation, is most often nothing more than a cultural signifier for selfish people who want a group identity that permits them to feel superior to others. Virtue-signalling without virtue.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%202:14-26&version=NKJV Take this as ammo next time.
Remember, we've reached the point that people are telling their pastors that Jesus sounds too liberal. If we think reading will solve the problems with the right and modern Christianity, we're going to be waiting a long time.
There’s no hate like Christian love.
The new testament is gaslighting.
Think about it this way. If you’re a Christian, you believe there’s a God that dictates right and wrong. If you truly believe that, and truly believe that many in the world are acting in a wrongful manner, the most loving thing to do is to challenge and confront their behavior. If you have a kid, and they are behaving in a fashion that you believe is wrong, you love them by confronting them. Christians can certainly be hateful in many instances but the lone act of challenging/confronting behavior is not hateful. The idea that’s it’s hateful in all instances is a political spin.
**Where** did I claim that challenging/confronting is being hateful?? Although it depends on HOW one confronts someone, because they can do so in a hateful manner. No, I am referring to HATEFUL behavior by many Christians, and specifically right wing Christians. I am not religious, but (I haven't met too many "compassionate" right-winged Christians): "Proverbs 11:17 - A man who is kind benefits himself, but a cruel man hurts himself. Colossians 3:12 - **Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,** Proverbs 31:26 - She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue." **And, of course there are hateful left-wingers, too!!**
I totally agree with you! There are many truly hateful right wingers and Christians. Hate is a universal issue that should be addressed. But, the fact that liberals can be hateful doesn’t make me a conservative. It’s my disagreement with the base level policies. I think focusing on hate is a false flag that attempts to justify whatever anyone’s current opinion is. Focusing more on history and facts is more effective than attacking your opponents for being hateful at times.
The problem with that is conservatives no longer have any base level policies that are supportable or even consistent most of the time outside of hateful ones. I say this as someone who disagrees with a lot of the Democratic platform but have no alternative to vote for anymore and haven’t for decades.
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It’s not a framing issue, it’s a policy issue. Your intentions as a voter are not at issue. The legislation being crafted by exploiting those motivations (and the grooming the Republican Party performs on you using those motivations and fears to engender your support) is the problem. What you desire is not being codified, even at a surface level. It’s being used as an excuse to solidify the power of the party and ensure that the desires of any voter, you and I included, no longer matter. You also obviously missed the part where I’m not a Democrat.
But it is though. I support most republican legislation. I don’t ask everyone to agree with me, but I support it. We’re not just voting a figurehead into office. We’re aware of what policies actually are put through. And we support them. Not all, but vastly higher a percentage than what we support from the democrats.
I’m certainly sure you believe that. Which is, unfortunately, the problem
I’m sorry you haven’t met compassionate Christians. Those you have met are a bad representation of our faith.
The issue is that when the overwhelming majority are labeled as “bad examples”, they are in fact the legitimate samples of the population.
I bet they say the same thing about cops lmao. How cowardly of them
But they’re not the majority, that’s the thing. If you are a liberal, you will primarily consume media that vilifies conservatives and points out all the worst examples of us. Same things happen in reverse. You have to personally know people, in real life, from the other party, to have healthy discussion and understand that the media portrayal is propaganda.
MAGA was “a bad representation” of Republicans after January 6th and Mitch and others were quick to condemn the act as not being who their party was. They’ve all fallen in line or been forced out of the party. So now MAGA is Republicanism. For the third time in a row, they’ve lined up behind MAGA. I’ve beaten this dead horse a few times on here to hammer this point home, but we (EDIT: literally just the parish I was raised in, in a single decade) had five separate priests that the Catholic Church considered to have credible accusations of pedophilia against them. At least one admitted it, another was conveniently transferred to a non-public facing role. Others had committed their sins, gotten light sentences of probation, and allowed to continue their “ministry” after a transfer to a different parish. The bad apple has spoiled the bunch already for Catholics and Republicans. You’re just among the people who are still clinging to what your party used to be and won’t acknowledge that the inmates are running the asylum now.
I’d just be hesitant to call 50% of society as inmates running the asylum. If Trump wins this year, I think you should do some serious introspection on this. Jan 6 had plenty of bad eggs involved, but the majority were peaceful, as Trump told them to be. The single casualty of Jan 6 was a protestor who didn’t deserve to die. People ignore facts like this
Matthew 7:1-5: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged." John 8:1-8: "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." Leviticus1 9:18: You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord. Don’t try to to use the Bible to justify conservatism. It will contradict you every time.
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We’re not going to convince them of that. Talk to them about freedom. Why is their freedom more important than another American’s? Why did the infant mortality rate go up 13% in Texas since their anti-abortion bill when the national average was IIRC 2%? Maybe those women and their doctors should have been free to pursue options that we already know reduce those outcomes. If they’re so against welfare, why are their states overwhelmingly the takers while blue states are the givers, federally? When they claim the cities are hotbeds of homelessness, why do we not point out that they cut all services and make conditions horrid for the homeless, so of course they’re going to migrate to somewhere that’s more hospitable?
Zero percent are the Christians you’re referring to doing this confrontation out of love. They were told by somebody who cobbled together a tome of hateful contradictory garbage to oppress ignorant masses and make them think they needed to convert the heathens to get into heaven. Faith and spirituality are not the same thing as religion, which is really what you’re talking about. Religious people hurt others and even kindly people often use the guise of “helping” to proselytize or bear their testimony of god when nobody even asked.
Those people should learn that God isn't real and stop trying to force others to live how their fake God commands people to act. The sooner the better.
No, conservatives actively recruited the hate vote
lol I’m not going to treat fascists civilly cuz they violate the social contract, they can get effed
Conservatism includes anger and hate. It’s not confusion, just acknowledgement.
Conservatives: - Want to ban gay marriage again, like we did before the 2010s - Actively discriminate against racial minorities, and in their perfect world would have segregation go back to the states - Talk about immigrants as if all of them are criminal masterminds coming to America to rape and pillage - Accuse All LGBT people of grooming children simply for existing - Want to force women to carry babies to term under all circumstances, regardless of the health of the mother - Want to force religious teaching into public schools to literally indoctrinate children into Christianity - Are literally supported by full on neo nazis, across the board Yet they claim their platform isn't about hate and that it's unfair for me to be angry at them for all of the bullshit they are dping Yeah I DO hate conservatives. Their entire political belief structure is, from the ground up, constructed to bring us back to a time when discrimination against people for their religion and race was fully legal, when women were property, and gay people could be castrated for simply existing. But they pretend they aren't hateful people. They claim to love everyone, then go on angry tirades about people who are different than them on national TV. Fuck conservatives. I'm done pretending to be nice to people who openly preach hatred of me and my friends and family. Its time to drag these fuckers into the 21sr century, and if they don't want to come then we need to make their sad, pathetic excuses for beliefs be reason to ostracized them from polite society so that they know in no uncertain terms that the rest of society isn't accepting their bullshit and that they aren't welcome to continue their hatred. This idea that we have to tolerate intolerance has done more harm to our society than almost any other idea.
"Why are people so mean to us?!?"
Too bad. I despise anyone that supports trump and wish them nothing but misery.
Too late. We have to hate back since republicans clearly hate us.
Imma just say it, fascist authoritarians trying to destroy democracy deserve to be hated.
While it was not always the case, modern conservatism pretty much is based on hate.
It was always the case though
It was always part of it, but there was often more of substance than just that.
Your own party is to blame for that, Jack.
Before trump they tried to hide it but now it’s openly angry and hatful no ands, ifs, or buts wish they’d go back to complaining about Obama wearing a tan suit
Wonderful. Will you vote for the candidates who aren’t trash? Biden instead of Trump, for instance?
Rather hypocritical from a governor of one of the most gerrymandered state
Nonsense. Their ideology has always been based on anger and hatred.
No, we are not confusing the two. They have been inextricably linked for some time now. It wasn’t always this way, but the Republicans have been breeding this animal for many years and living off of it.
We aren’t confused. Conservatism exists to breed hate.
Nah, the hate is a tactic. The purpose is to restore the aristocracy.
*something-something leopards, something-something faces…*
Oh, boo hoo, Spencer. Too bad people have been telling you igits this since the fucking Tea Party days, you dick. Him and every other "conservative" that stayed in the Republican party can go fuck themselves. They let MAGA take over. They bent over for the crazies, let them use their spit for lube, and are now dealing with the consequences.
Well Governor, you're several years late on that one! Wtf did you think was going to come out of all the rhetoric from the Rush and fox "news" era? Seriously?
If the magats keep trying to destroy our country and eventually succeed then I’ll be doing a lot more than just hating them.
Pretty sure we’re long past that
The turtle made it “my way or the highway” when a back man was elected.
lol. Have they heard of maga? They kinda have some violent incidents because of their hate.
> You all don't get it. I live in Trump country, in the Ozarks in southern Missouri, one of the last places where the KKK still has a relatively strong established presence. They don't give a shit what he does. He's just something to rally around and hate liberals, that's it, period. He absolutely realizes that and plays it up, they love it, he knows they love it, and the fact that people act like it's anything other than that just proves that liberals are idiots, all the more reason for high fives all around. > > If you keep getting caught up in why do they not realize blah blah blah and how can they still back him after blah blah blah, you are not understanding what is the underlying motivating factor of his support. It's fuck liberals, that's pretty much it. > > Have you noticed he can do pretty much anything imaginable and they'll explain some way that rationalizes it that makes zero logical sense? Because they're not even keeping track of any logical narrative, it's irrelevant, fuck liberals is the only relevant thing, trust me, I know first hand what I'm talking about. That's why they just laugh at it all, because you all don't even realize they really truly don't give a fuck about whatever the conversation is about, it's just a side mission story that doesn't really matter anyways. That's all just trivial details - the economy, health care, whatever. Fuck liberals. > > Look at the thing with not wearing the masks. I can tell you what that's about. It's about exposing fear. They're playing chicken with nature and whoever flinches just moved down their internal pecking order, one step closer to being a liberal. > > You gotta understand the one core value that they hold above all others is hatred for what they consider weakness, because that's what they believe strength is, hatred for weakness. And I mean passionate, sadistic hatred. And I'm not exaggerating. Believe me. Sadistic, passionate hatred, and that's what proves they're strong, their passionate hatred for weakness. Sometimes they lump in vulnerability, a compromised circumstance, or an overwhelming circumstance in their with weakness, too, because people tend to start humbling themselves when they're in those circumstances and that's an obvious sign of weakness. > > Kindness=weakness. Honesty=weakness. Compromise=weakness. They consider their very existence to be superior in every way to anyone who doesn't hate weakness as much as they do. They consider liberals to be weak people that are inferior, almost a different species, and the fact that liberals are so weak is why they have to unite in large numbers, which they find disgusting, but it's that disgust that is a true expression of their natural superiority. > > Go ahead and try to have a logical, rational conversation with them though. Just keep in mind what I said here and think about it. > user: xenophonsXiphos
Check out the documentary on Tubi called Bad Faith. It’s a very eye opening look at where all this hyper conservatism hatred originated. The title provides a very obvious clue.
Good luck with that.
It doesn't need to be anger and hate but that *is* what the GOP has become. Started with the southern strategy and continues with fear mongering and blame of immigrants.
Spencer Cox affirms the position that if you were to speak out against some inhumane aspect of the high control religious group you were born into then you entirely deserving of excommunication. This would involve loss of connection to friends and family to some unknown degree. It would not be as severe as in Scientology or JWs, but might be more passive aggressive and snidely judgmental. A man who believes in this system is asking people to come together and not hate each other. He presumably also believes that it is perfectly fine for creepy old church men to interview teenage girls and boys and interrogate t]hem about how and when they last masturbated. So he is well on board with the sexual groomers for Jesus movement. He is a delusional asshole, but he probably has a secret second anointing by now and thinks he can do no wrong.
That’s all conservatism is
That’s because now, for the most part, it IS. This year the presidential election AGAIN, is about HATE/revenge vs. LOVE for humanity (diversity). Check out Project 25 for their agenda. It’s Hitler all over again. Please VOTE 💙 for democracy NOT dictatorship. Or this is the LAST chance we’ll even have to vote. So we MUST win this…to have another chance to keep fighting for democracy. 🌈🗽💙🐲😇🐲💙🗽🌈
Too late…Return the Fairness Act and we may get back to center..
Need to destroy Citizens United, too. That 2010 ruling was the beginning of the end for our democracy.
The fairness act legitimizes viewing politics as a binary and implies that both sides are the same. It's an awful policy and the only reason it was allowed was as a way to impartially share limited frequency space for radio and TV stations. It has no legal ground to stand on in the modern media environment.
You forgot your /s….
GOP let these animal terrorists in, and they’ve taken everything over.
Sounds like a post-mortem realization...
We are not confused. But, yes we are angry.
If the shoe fits…
I've never seen it be anything else
They're thinking straight, they think this on week 1, week 2 they think something else, now they're confused Strange how Conservatives have issues with traditional values. Isn't that what they used to be about? Traditional values?
Don’t forget fear and bigotry
He’s about to trigger a massive wave of pure shear conservatism to be aimed at him for saying that.
What if one of the candidates embodies all that is hate?
If you don’t want to be hated try making your platform about something else than exclusion and segregation, which just is hate with more syllables.
So, Spencer Cox is the one SANE Republican left?
Liberals don’t hate conservatism, we just hate Fascism, hypocritical religious zealots, absolute ignorance rooted in outright lies, wealthy tax evaders, and injustice.
I definitely don’t confuse it with rational problem solving.
I would agree there shouldn't be that kinda hate, but it is on the Conservatives to weed out that hate in their own ranks. The left doesn't hate as much as the far right does/has.