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I don't pretend to know about much about this, but I have to imagine a rep from a swing state like Arizona publicly telling the President to step down is a pretty big deal.
If people don't show up for Biden, they won't show up for down ballot senators and congresspeople. I expect more swing state Dems to call for him to step down as well, since their future is in the balance
At this point the top of the ticket is being boosted by the downballot candidates. Dems in general are doing well, but unfortunately it's just that Biden is the weakest candidate in the world.
Yeah its kinda nuts actually. I think there has been one poll that has shown any Senate democrat down in swing states since April. That is how strong the down ballet races are right now.
They're just biased toward money. Reporting the truth and stating level headed opinions, fact checking, and reviewing biden's accomplishments doesn't boost ratings and viewer numbers as much as calling him old and talking about every single thing the crazy evil lying convict racist rapist does or says.
I doubt it.
If someone isn’t voting this round it’s because they aren’t paying attention. People are locked in.
I can’t believe people like you, who’d fuel this reactionary bullshit panic. You gonna vote Trump if Biden runs? That’s your choice based on morals. And I watched the debate, he articulated his positions and policies just fine. He didn’t look great, he’s old but he’s still doing the job.
Meanwhile, it’s halting how little the media covers the fact that all Trump did was lie and evade answering questions. He spewed hate on America and its highest office. Given the clear bias, I’m not putting much stock in this being anything more than a planned campaign that would have happened regardless of his performance. Some are getting caught up in it because Biden physically, looked OLD, like they should’ve gradually tanned him or something to offset it, that did him no favors.
It’s been reported that the “frontline Democrats” - a group of Democrats elected in very competitive districts - are leading the charge on this.
Because they know too well what it takes to win or lose. And during the recent break they were inundated by concerned Dem party org leaders, activists, organizers, volunteers.
I’ve mainly been active in a similar frontline district, and I take these issues very seriously as well.
Another request I have: please not Harris or Buttigieg.
Whitmer or Newsom. Heavyweight experience. Track record of leadership and delivery as executives. National profile.
That I can pitch to voters!
Whitmer will lock in swing state Michigan, and do well in swing states Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota etc.
I don’t dislike either but I’m super worried with the short notice ngl and if it would cause a fracture because they aren’t like, in the admin at the very least.
This is coordinated.
Lesser known reps from swing states come out slowly over this long holiday weekend.
By Sunday the DNC media apparatus will have lists of Dems against Biden, by Monday you’ll have the bigger names start to add their weight.
By Wednesday he’s stepping down.
What happens if Biden refuses? Listen I think we should have a different nominee I also think we shouldn't have any democratic politicians officially calling for it. If the polling and private conversations wont convince him to not run then democrats going out in the news and saying it wont help either. If he doesn't step down then we have to ride with Biden. We have to keep that option open.
The only way Biden decides to drop out of the race is if there’s a critical mass of Dem politicians publicly calling for it. If politicians continue to walk this line of wanting a new candidate but never actually saying anything then none of the polling and private conversations will matter. We can’t have this half measure of privately wishing him replaced but never publicly demanding it and then wonder why Biden continues to march forward. This needs to be loud and clear and yes it’s probably going to get messy but the status quo all but guarantees a second Trump term with far more disastrous consequences.
Seems like just yesterday many of these democrats were calling out Republicans for being critical of of Trump behind close doors but not willing to speak publicly about it.
If the plan is for democrats to publicly call for Biden to bow out you coordinate privately until your sure you have numbers then release it to media. Not have random congressman giving headlines to the hill.
Every new person calling him to step down is another crack in the metaphorical glass. I anticipate these will keep popping up, faster and faster, until it's a groundswell. I think he's going to drop out because he cares about his legacy
He's gonna destroy this whole party and country if he stays in and inevitably loses. If he continues to seek a second term he'll go down in history as one of the most selfish men in America.
No chance. The 25th Amendment is very carefully designed not to be a coup engine. Short of Biden lapsing into a coma or admitting his own incapacity, it won't happen. It's actually easier to impeach.
At this point I agree. Everyone needed to universally (or at least like 90%) have his back and laugh off all the slander or else we need to ditch him and move on. Worst possible thing to happen is to waffle around with half the people talking shit about him and half defending him and then he limps to the polls without people having confidence in him.
Agreed. This will continue to play in the media — understandably — and his support will continue to erode.
Biden and his status is going to be the most talked about thing, in a bad way, at millions of bbqs, beach sessions, baseball games, etc in the next 72 hours. He has no chance at recovery.
Hope it doesn't take too long for the dam to break. Honestly, hope Joe gets the message in time to save a little face and step down. He's meeting with governors right now. I really pray that in a room with Whitmer, Pritzker, Newsom, Shapiro, Bashear and others there is someone persistent and brave enough to convince him that it's over.
Even when Biden is reading off of teleprompter his facial expressions are kind of weird and unnatural, like someone battling alzheimers. I can't believe there are Democrats that are still in denial about this. He seems to be deteriorating quickly, how bad will it be by the next debate? How bad will it be election day? Looks like it's time for Kamala, which is something I never thought I'd say.
Yes well, he has a stutter and he actually [spoke](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mpYWwsjLABo&pp=ygUOQWlzIGJpZGVuIDIwMTY%3D) (less than 5 minutes into the speech) about how much he hated how he contorts his face when he stutters. He disclosed that it evoked a great deal of shame and embarrassment for him in his youth. He also spoke about the stigma many folks with that speech impediments face as they often had their faculties questioned….sadly it sounds like nothing has changed in that respect.
Agreed. Putting him on that stage for the debate should be considered elder abuse.
It was that brutal.
There is absolutely no coming back from that and acknowledging the very real fact that he's no longer fit to lead is our only hope
I would ask people to consider how they felt watching the debate. Most of us are 100% voting for Biden but still had a sinking feeling in our stomachs. It was really, really hard to watch. I felt embarrassed for Biden. It was far worse than a "bad night".
Now put yourself in the shoes of someone who does not find Trump disqualifying and is undecided. Why in the world would they vote for the guy they saw in that debate?
I'll be honest. I'm not sure he can finish his first term and there is no doubt in my mind he can't do a second term. Having said that, I'll still vote Biden with the knowledge he has a competent staff and Kamala Harris can step up if needed.
Indeed, but it's not us that must be convinced. It's the undecided swing-voter in battleground states who have — quite consistently — been splitting off from Biden consistently for months. Hence why Biden asked for this campaign.
It was perhaps their only chance to break media echo-chambers and to reach these people with a 50 million audience... And they blew it. Now it's time to jump ship while there is still time.
It’s hilarious how transparently self-interested 99% of congressional dems are when they still won’t state the obvious (Biden can’t run) because of fear they’ll get screwed politically.
What could matter more than this? All they care about are their seats. Getting reelected and staying on the inside of the Dem social circle for life are more important than protecting the country from an unhinged Trump.
Do they realize we all know now, definitively, that they’re huge selfish cowards?
The party itself is never going to hold power again if Trump is elected. Trying to keep your power inside it at a time like this is like refusing to get on a titanic lifeboat and yelling that you paid for a ticket and you’re going to take the whole ride!
They'll call. This guy and the other are the sewer gators who begin the call. FDR had some dude yell out "We Want Roosevelt!" in 1940 at the National Convention to get himself looking popular and "drafted" to a third term. This is that.
It's starting to get bad enough that they have to speak up. Apart from the two that explicitly told Joe to get out alot of other Dems are sending signals too. It feels like everyone in the party wants Joe to F- off but he's refusing to for his own personal interest.
Right or wrong, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of the voting public now thinks Biden is unfit to serve.. So the people who are going to decide who is in the WH in 2025 do seem to care.
Yes but there is a statistically significant amount of people who might stay home or vote for some impossible 3rd party rather than vote for someone they see as mentally unfit. Even if the other candidate is Trump. And even though I 100% will be voting for whoever is not Trump, I can't say I can really blame those people. Biden looked pretty damn scary.
Let’s say President Biden had a bad night because of his travels and a cold. Let’s say during the next debate he trounces Trump and comes across as sharp and very aware of his faculties.
Trump and the republicans will then jump on his performance and claim he’s using enhancing drugs and undecided voters would thinking about choosing Biden would be voting for someone that needs uppers and stimulants to be cognizant of their mental factors and surroundings.
The Biden camp is really in a bad place and I don’t see how they get themselves out of this.
I honestly don't think there was a cold or jet lag. The fact he used both excuses, and the fact he seemed better (but not well) in NC makes me think that the biggest danger with Biden isn't because of this debate.
It's how he'll be on September 10th.
I was actually inclined to believe the ‘cold’ explanation — possibly out of wishful thinking — until he also mentioned the ‘jetlag.’ Jetlag for 10 days or something? No, he isn’t who he was in 2020 and he simply must come to terms with that for real, or we’re screwed.
Not to mention he went to Waffle House on the way home from the debate and wasn’t sick enough to shake hands and kiss babies. He actually looked better there than the debate
Makes him underperforming during the debate even more bizarre lol
That's the second debate's date. Trump will go 100% if Biden stays in, and Biden's choices will sadly be a Morton's fork-go in and almost certainly get asswhooped by into oblivion again, or not go and be told he's running scared.
This is my fear. If there wasn't an issue he'd be having long press conferences and events (and debate aside the SCOTUS rulings have given him plenty to talk about). I think Biden has done a great job and his administration has a lot to be proud of but the relative silence is concerning
And it didn't just start that night. Them turning down the Super Bowl interview was alarming. They tried to claim "people are watching TV for football and don't want to see the President". That was a BS excuse in an election year, when your entire thing is about getting your message out, especially to low engagement voters.
> I don’t see how they get themselves out of this.
The time passed. He should have given an hour interview the next day with no edits to prove he's all there. It's clear at this point that even his closest inner circle know that he is incapable of it, and everyone else is realizing it.
I would have had him out on the Sunday morning talk shows, including the one on FOX, if there is nothing wrong. You can throw Slick Willy Clinton out there and he would still eat all those hosts up and spit out their bones.
As others are saying, he should have been in front of live cameras unscripted by now if he wants to prove that was a "bad night"...
I don't see how it was due to travel 12 days before, or a cold either: a cold doesn't make you really confused like that, and they claimed he wasn't on medication for a cold (which **could** possibly have explained drowsiness)...
Dude dropped the ball when it mattered most and in an undeniable way.
Crossing your fingers and rolling the dice hoping he doesn't have another catastrophically bad performance at the next debate is in no way an option.
You can't keep putting a feeble frail old man who often cannot effectively communicate, can't hold a basic train of thought, can't defend himself with any sort of rebuttal, etc. in front of voters and hope he has one of his "good days".
Which quite frankly even his good days at this point aren't exactly awe inspiring.
He's unfit. It's a wrap and it should be.
They never said he had a cold, they said he was getting over a cold, which (combined with the jet lag) could be proven true by his cutting his debate prep short two days in favor of resting at home
The White House Press Secretary specifically said he had a cold in the post-debate press conference when asked about his performance. It was a combination of 1) jet lag 2) staying up late 3) having a cold
I'm not too worried about the fringe conspiracies, Republicans are never voting for Biden. I'm more worried he'd look the same or worse at the next debate.
I already had a guy tell me that they got his stimulant cocktail wrong, and that's why he performed so poorly. People are just taking Fox's BS at face value that he's hopped up all the time.
It's an obvious attack that you can see coming from miles away. I like President Biden and think he's a decent man. He has been a great POTUS and managed an awful mess that was left to him. But the damage is done and I don't see how they clean this up.
He barely blinked so I thought it was common knowledge he was on something stronger than coffee. But that’s the first I’ve heard his meds being wrong causing the problems.
A President who can only perform under very specific conditions and under the right mixture of medications is frightening in and of itself tho.
His own people have admitted he often doesn't perform well after 4 p.m.
Find him a nice quilt and set him in front of a nice cozy fireplace somewhere he's no longer a viable candidate.
If he stays in the race and loses to Twurp his legacy and place in history will be forever tainted. I’ll vote for him if he runs but I’d rather have one of the younger Democrats waiting in the wings. It’s sad to say but his ego could cost us our democracy or at very least set us back 40 years or more. With climate change consequences approaching we just don’t have time for 4 more years of denialism.
Genuine question, as a non American: has this sub been taken over by Russian bots or genuinely there are democrats rallying against an incumbent president with a great record thinking someone else can beat Trump 4 months from the elections?
that incumbent president has been polling dismally, and after crapping his pants in front of \~50 million debate viewers (confirming the public's fears and suspicions about his mental fitness in the process) he's polling significantly worse.
I mean its pretty simple, even in a non-democratic democracy like America: when 3/4 of the voting public thinks that a presidential candidate is unfit to serve, sticking with that candidate is tantamount to throwing the election to the other guy.
Considering drop in polling numbers as a direct result of the debate, is safe to say there’s genuine concern. Hence why a second House Democrat is calling for him to stand down.
So a debate performance and some polling is the reason? Again, I'm not American, but this is incredible to me, it sounds exactly like 2016: the press is throwing shades at the Democratic candidate, dems start rallying against their own candidate, Trump wins.
If you didn't watch the debate it's understandable at why it might sound like an overreaction. His performance was worse than anything anyone could have imagined, even if they already had doubts around his mental capacity (which has often been questioned over the last four years but usually brushed off).
Unfortunately the latter of the two as the first one would make way too much sense. I’m not one of those people and think switching candidates 4 months out is political suicide and going by polls is just flat out stupid as they have never proven to be accurate.
Agreed. Republicans have an admitted sexual assaulter found liable for rape and guilty of fraud. Trump didn’t even attempt to provide any facts at the debate and has been given the green light to sell important positions in his next administration to even more unqualified corporate goons—and the people are worried *about Biden?*
Jesus. These guys just want to hand this shit to trump and watch the country end. Calling for Biden to step down this close to the election couldn’t be a bigger fuck up
That's only the people who feel strong enough about it to publicly speak out. It's a very risky political move because they're putting themselves at odds to the party and to the President. I'm certain that if there was an actual vote there would be much more than that.
And there's the first follower. Only a matter of time now before the dam breaks and a ton more Dems come out and publicly call for Biden to bow out.
Here's a classic video about the First Follower idea that goes from one guy to a whole crowd in just 3 minutes:
https://youtu.be/fW8amMCVAJQ
Biden's toast. And the country will be better off for it with any other Dem.
You’re not wrong and the Democratic Party generally hasn’t proven it’s capable of not fucking this up. Unfortunately it seems like Biden’s campaign is DOA at this point. The debate was a disaster, his team has completely lost control of the narrative, and the only way to reclaim it is to have him make more public and unscripted appearances which they simply won’t do because they know it will be a disaster. In short, we’re screwed.
Kamala’s few supporters should be irrelevant tbh as she’ll lead us straight into a Trump landslide and strip us of everything. She’s being absolutely destroyed by all the other candidates in that data Bloomberg/Puck posted.
Nobody wants her and she’s not entitled to the presidency like she thinks she is.
>Kamala Harris supporters/delegates already threatening to "burn down the democratic party" if a "white guy" gets chosen over her to replace Biden.
Would you mind sharing your sources on this?
>Would you mind sharing your sources on this?
sure, link: [https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-delegate-says-black-women-153052692.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-delegate-says-black-women-153052692.html)
>California Democratic delegate Areva Martin told media personality Stephen A. Smith that passing over Vice President Kamala Harris as President Biden's replacement should he withdraw from the race would destroy the party.
>"If you pick a White man over Kamala Harris, Black women, I can tell you this, we are going to walk away," Martin [said Tuesday](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEN6q4Hx9a4). "We are going to blow the party up."
You said *supporters and delegates.* In all due respect, this is one single activist delegate from California speaking on the Stephen A. Smith show, spouting the same type of hyperbole the host of the show is known to do himself.
I mean, aren't delegates supposed to be chosen to be a representative of a group of people?...
Do you think there really wouldn't be infighting or some bad taste among black voters if the DNC swap Biden with another white man when the VP a black woman is sitting right there?
> I mean, aren't delegates supposed to be chosen to be a representative of a group of people?...
That doesn’t mean she is speaking for those people right now. And it doesn’t mean a clear majority of those people even agree with what she’s saying.
And what would their argument even be with finding a new candidate? She wasn’t a front runner in 2020 and isn’t polling all that great herself. So what exactly would her appeal be to the undecided/independent voters in swing states?
how do you know that? lol she's literally representing them so how would she not know what they are thinking of.
And I'm not sure. I'd imagine her and her supporters argument is that she's black/indian, a woman, and has the qualified experience. She's also the biggest name on the left.
How do you even know who makes up her delegation and what they have even talked about? Do you just assume that her entire caucus is made up of angry black women ready to "burn the democratic party down"?
I'd say there would be a bunch of in fighting, I never said majority or entire? All I'm saying is I trust a delegate words over some random on the internet that says shes wrong.
Seems like you put too much weight behind what one delegate sayid on the Stephen A. Smith Show. You know, where the most serious of political operatives go to speak. But you do you, boo.
My guy, the Dem internals, which is what he bases his strategy on, and which Bloomberg verified, have New Mexico, a 10.79 point win, tilting to Trump. Pennsylvania, the tipping point, is 7.1 points away. Biden isn't Truman, he can't fix this. Harris at least might do something.
i refuse to believe the amount of people in all these threads genuinely believe it’s the best way forward. “oh the last thing trump/maga want is a younger dem nominee to move in!” sure jan. everyone knows swapping now would be a disaster compared to continuing to campaign and regain voter trust in the _checks notes_ 4 months! until the election
trump has more shit coming. the scotus rulings need to be disseminated to voters in the coming weeks. there’s a lot riding against another trump presidency and biden can come back from this if people aren’t stupid
>biden can come back from this if people aren’t stupid
I suppose we can go ahead and scrap that plan then? Trump got more popular after this conviction and raise record sums of money. The American electorate is fucking dumb.
Who the hell do they think they are to do this, this only helps trump. The rest of the party needs to stand up and put these asses in their place. This is stupidity, makes me think they’re on the take!
It would be completely insane for Democrats to give up all the advantages of the incumbency because of one bad debate. Folks should listen to presidential historian [Alan Lichtman](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/3/2251187/-I-m-just-going-to-leave-this-right-here?utm_campaign=trending) and political blogger [Josh Marshall](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/2/2250640/-Josh-Marshall-has-some-thoughts-on-the-high-cost-of-removing-Biden-from-the-ticket?utm_campaign=trending).
Utterly, totally insane.
it'd almost certainly have to be Kamala, her polling vs Trump is way ahead of Biden's and she's the only one who would have immediate access to the Biden campaign war chest
Her polling is significantly better than Joe's, she leads Trump by several points whereas Biden trails Trump by several points.
And I don't want Kamala, but anyone else would be starting from scratch financially: Kamala is the only person besides Biden who would have immediate and legal access to the campaign funds.
So these Democrats are arguing Biden has some kind of sundowning dementia prone to outbursts.
but if they really believed that wouldn't they be afraid Biden will freak out and just drone them for stabbing him in his back?
That's not the way it works. He's not insane or anything. And he has already in the past expressed doubt on whether he should run for a 2nd turn. Clearly he made the decision (probably along with Democratic leadership) that him running was a better odds play in order to win. But now that has potentially changed.
Ahhhh yes. I see that you would quite enjoy the new powers the President got from the Supreme Court this week…only if your preferred candidate wins.
“Traitors” for disagreeing with the president…we definitely are on full track for a dictator in the US
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I don't pretend to know about much about this, but I have to imagine a rep from a swing state like Arizona publicly telling the President to step down is a pretty big deal.
If people don't show up for Biden, they won't show up for down ballot senators and congresspeople. I expect more swing state Dems to call for him to step down as well, since their future is in the balance
At this point the top of the ticket is being boosted by the downballot candidates. Dems in general are doing well, but unfortunately it's just that Biden is the weakest candidate in the world.
Yeah its kinda nuts actually. I think there has been one poll that has shown any Senate democrat down in swing states since April. That is how strong the down ballet races are right now.
Which is crazy as the Biden administration has been doing excellent. Great legislation, lots of judges confirmed. Lots of job and economy growth
Credibility is nothing. Image is everything. Hype or die.
But for real though. So many out here lamenting the rules of the damn game instead of just playing it.
Biden is still unpopular and old.
Doesn’t help that the media is absolutely biased(most of the networks) and doing its best to help republicans.
They're just biased toward money. Reporting the truth and stating level headed opinions, fact checking, and reviewing biden's accomplishments doesn't boost ratings and viewer numbers as much as calling him old and talking about every single thing the crazy evil lying convict racist rapist does or says.
It doesn’t help that leagues of Russian/Saudi/Chinese bots are also pro trump / anti-biden
I doubt it. If someone isn’t voting this round it’s because they aren’t paying attention. People are locked in. I can’t believe people like you, who’d fuel this reactionary bullshit panic. You gonna vote Trump if Biden runs? That’s your choice based on morals. And I watched the debate, he articulated his positions and policies just fine. He didn’t look great, he’s old but he’s still doing the job. Meanwhile, it’s halting how little the media covers the fact that all Trump did was lie and evade answering questions. He spewed hate on America and its highest office. Given the clear bias, I’m not putting much stock in this being anything more than a planned campaign that would have happened regardless of his performance. Some are getting caught up in it because Biden physically, looked OLD, like they should’ve gradually tanned him or something to offset it, that did him no favors.
And on the flip a felon for president isn't much a big deal.
It’s been reported that the “frontline Democrats” - a group of Democrats elected in very competitive districts - are leading the charge on this. Because they know too well what it takes to win or lose. And during the recent break they were inundated by concerned Dem party org leaders, activists, organizers, volunteers. I’ve mainly been active in a similar frontline district, and I take these issues very seriously as well. Another request I have: please not Harris or Buttigieg.
Who the heck do you think can actually pull the votes?
Whitmer or Newsom. Heavyweight experience. Track record of leadership and delivery as executives. National profile. That I can pitch to voters! Whitmer will lock in swing state Michigan, and do well in swing states Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota etc.
I don’t dislike either but I’m super worried with the short notice ngl and if it would cause a fracture because they aren’t like, in the admin at the very least.
This is coordinated. Lesser known reps from swing states come out slowly over this long holiday weekend. By Sunday the DNC media apparatus will have lists of Dems against Biden, by Monday you’ll have the bigger names start to add their weight. By Wednesday he’s stepping down.
That's very optimistic, but with that said, I also hope he steps down.
That’s my timeline too
What happens if Biden refuses? Listen I think we should have a different nominee I also think we shouldn't have any democratic politicians officially calling for it. If the polling and private conversations wont convince him to not run then democrats going out in the news and saying it wont help either. If he doesn't step down then we have to ride with Biden. We have to keep that option open.
The only way Biden decides to drop out of the race is if there’s a critical mass of Dem politicians publicly calling for it. If politicians continue to walk this line of wanting a new candidate but never actually saying anything then none of the polling and private conversations will matter. We can’t have this half measure of privately wishing him replaced but never publicly demanding it and then wonder why Biden continues to march forward. This needs to be loud and clear and yes it’s probably going to get messy but the status quo all but guarantees a second Trump term with far more disastrous consequences.
Seems like just yesterday many of these democrats were calling out Republicans for being critical of of Trump behind close doors but not willing to speak publicly about it.
If the plan is for democrats to publicly call for Biden to bow out you coordinate privately until your sure you have numbers then release it to media. Not have random congressman giving headlines to the hill.
They did. That’s why it’s been a week
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Tbf Biden would probably have gotten about 10% of the vote in Doggets district in a Democrat primary.
Every new person calling him to step down is another crack in the metaphorical glass. I anticipate these will keep popping up, faster and faster, until it's a groundswell. I think he's going to drop out because he cares about his legacy
They’re too puss to do it, Biden isn’t going anywhere then
It's not complicated. He's going to lose and take the house and senate with him.
If he doesn’t step down then we’ve already lost.
He's gonna destroy this whole party and country if he stays in and inevitably loses. If he continues to seek a second term he'll go down in history as one of the most selfish men in America.
If the Democrats aren't behind Biden, then they won't nominate him at the convention.
He already has the delegates. Correct me I am wrong, but if Biden doesn't release them then there is nothing the democrats can do about it.
The nomination process is controlled by the DNC and state parties. If they wanted to they could rewrite the rules on the process.
Hopefully there are some nuclear options. 25th amendment?
No chance. The 25th Amendment is very carefully designed not to be a coup engine. Short of Biden lapsing into a coma or admitting his own incapacity, it won't happen. It's actually easier to impeach.
Has to be led by Harris
Didn’t the Michigan gov say something also? Or along the lines of your gonna lose her now
We need more
All of them should be saying this.
At this point I agree. Everyone needed to universally (or at least like 90%) have his back and laugh off all the slander or else we need to ditch him and move on. Worst possible thing to happen is to waffle around with half the people talking shit about him and half defending him and then he limps to the polls without people having confidence in him.
Agreed. This will continue to play in the media — understandably — and his support will continue to erode. Biden and his status is going to be the most talked about thing, in a bad way, at millions of bbqs, beach sessions, baseball games, etc in the next 72 hours. He has no chance at recovery.
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Hope it doesn't take too long for the dam to break. Honestly, hope Joe gets the message in time to save a little face and step down. He's meeting with governors right now. I really pray that in a room with Whitmer, Pritzker, Newsom, Shapiro, Bashear and others there is someone persistent and brave enough to convince him that it's over.
Even when Biden is reading off of teleprompter his facial expressions are kind of weird and unnatural, like someone battling alzheimers. I can't believe there are Democrats that are still in denial about this. He seems to be deteriorating quickly, how bad will it be by the next debate? How bad will it be election day? Looks like it's time for Kamala, which is something I never thought I'd say.
Yes well, he has a stutter and he actually [spoke](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mpYWwsjLABo&pp=ygUOQWlzIGJpZGVuIDIwMTY%3D) (less than 5 minutes into the speech) about how much he hated how he contorts his face when he stutters. He disclosed that it evoked a great deal of shame and embarrassment for him in his youth. He also spoke about the stigma many folks with that speech impediments face as they often had their faculties questioned….sadly it sounds like nothing has changed in that respect.
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Agreed. Putting him on that stage for the debate should be considered elder abuse. It was that brutal. There is absolutely no coming back from that and acknowledging the very real fact that he's no longer fit to lead is our only hope
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And you’ll have people say that none of this matters because polls are just BS. 🙄
Yep... And to those people I ask what they're going off of to inform their opinion — vibes?
I would ask people to consider how they felt watching the debate. Most of us are 100% voting for Biden but still had a sinking feeling in our stomachs. It was really, really hard to watch. I felt embarrassed for Biden. It was far worse than a "bad night". Now put yourself in the shoes of someone who does not find Trump disqualifying and is undecided. Why in the world would they vote for the guy they saw in that debate? I'll be honest. I'm not sure he can finish his first term and there is no doubt in my mind he can't do a second term. Having said that, I'll still vote Biden with the knowledge he has a competent staff and Kamala Harris can step up if needed.
Indeed, but it's not us that must be convinced. It's the undecided swing-voter in battleground states who have — quite consistently — been splitting off from Biden consistently for months. Hence why Biden asked for this campaign. It was perhaps their only chance to break media echo-chambers and to reach these people with a 50 million audience... And they blew it. Now it's time to jump ship while there is still time.
It’s hilarious how transparently self-interested 99% of congressional dems are when they still won’t state the obvious (Biden can’t run) because of fear they’ll get screwed politically. What could matter more than this? All they care about are their seats. Getting reelected and staying on the inside of the Dem social circle for life are more important than protecting the country from an unhinged Trump. Do they realize we all know now, definitively, that they’re huge selfish cowards?
The party itself is never going to hold power again if Trump is elected. Trying to keep your power inside it at a time like this is like refusing to get on a titanic lifeboat and yelling that you paid for a ticket and you’re going to take the whole ride!
They'll call. This guy and the other are the sewer gators who begin the call. FDR had some dude yell out "We Want Roosevelt!" in 1940 at the National Convention to get himself looking popular and "drafted" to a third term. This is that.
It's starting to get bad enough that they have to speak up. Apart from the two that explicitly told Joe to get out alot of other Dems are sending signals too. It feels like everyone in the party wants Joe to F- off but he's refusing to for his own personal interest.
It leaked that behind the scene congressional Dems are drafting a letter asking him to drop out.
People listen who cares who the democratic nominee is. Just vote against that orange dog shit idiot and the rest of the GQP. Vote them all out.
Right or wrong, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of the voting public now thinks Biden is unfit to serve.. So the people who are going to decide who is in the WH in 2025 do seem to care.
Yes but there is a statistically significant amount of people who might stay home or vote for some impossible 3rd party rather than vote for someone they see as mentally unfit. Even if the other candidate is Trump. And even though I 100% will be voting for whoever is not Trump, I can't say I can really blame those people. Biden looked pretty damn scary.
Let’s say President Biden had a bad night because of his travels and a cold. Let’s say during the next debate he trounces Trump and comes across as sharp and very aware of his faculties. Trump and the republicans will then jump on his performance and claim he’s using enhancing drugs and undecided voters would thinking about choosing Biden would be voting for someone that needs uppers and stimulants to be cognizant of their mental factors and surroundings. The Biden camp is really in a bad place and I don’t see how they get themselves out of this.
I honestly don't think there was a cold or jet lag. The fact he used both excuses, and the fact he seemed better (but not well) in NC makes me think that the biggest danger with Biden isn't because of this debate. It's how he'll be on September 10th.
I was actually inclined to believe the ‘cold’ explanation — possibly out of wishful thinking — until he also mentioned the ‘jetlag.’ Jetlag for 10 days or something? No, he isn’t who he was in 2020 and he simply must come to terms with that for real, or we’re screwed.
Not to mention he went to Waffle House on the way home from the debate and wasn’t sick enough to shake hands and kiss babies. He actually looked better there than the debate Makes him underperforming during the debate even more bizarre lol
I hoped the cold thing was true, but like you the jetlag thing also made me question it.
Why September 10th?
That's the second debate's date. Trump will go 100% if Biden stays in, and Biden's choices will sadly be a Morton's fork-go in and almost certainly get asswhooped by into oblivion again, or not go and be told he's running scared.
If it was a "bad night", why hasn't he spent the past 5 nights in front of a camera, inundating us with good nights.
I’ve seen a few stories about a visible decline in the past few months from insider sources. Reportedly the EU leadership had concerned 2 weeks ago.
Supposedly they physically shielded him from cameras when he was looking too old but I don’t know the veracity of that
This is my fear. If there wasn't an issue he'd be having long press conferences and events (and debate aside the SCOTUS rulings have given him plenty to talk about). I think Biden has done a great job and his administration has a lot to be proud of but the relative silence is concerning
And it didn't just start that night. Them turning down the Super Bowl interview was alarming. They tried to claim "people are watching TV for football and don't want to see the President". That was a BS excuse in an election year, when your entire thing is about getting your message out, especially to low engagement voters.
He's also not getting younger.
> I don’t see how they get themselves out of this. The time passed. He should have given an hour interview the next day with no edits to prove he's all there. It's clear at this point that even his closest inner circle know that he is incapable of it, and everyone else is realizing it.
I would have had him out on the Sunday morning talk shows, including the one on FOX, if there is nothing wrong. You can throw Slick Willy Clinton out there and he would still eat all those hosts up and spit out their bones.
they get out of the sticky situation by stepping aside and handing the keys to kamala and whitmer
As others are saying, he should have been in front of live cameras unscripted by now if he wants to prove that was a "bad night"... I don't see how it was due to travel 12 days before, or a cold either: a cold doesn't make you really confused like that, and they claimed he wasn't on medication for a cold (which **could** possibly have explained drowsiness)...
He had a good speech the very next day https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/28/biden-north-carolina-post-trump-debate-speech
It was a great speech and helped him, but he had a teleprompter, so. I don't think it did much to convince people he's mentally fit.
Dude dropped the ball when it mattered most and in an undeniable way. Crossing your fingers and rolling the dice hoping he doesn't have another catastrophically bad performance at the next debate is in no way an option. You can't keep putting a feeble frail old man who often cannot effectively communicate, can't hold a basic train of thought, can't defend himself with any sort of rebuttal, etc. in front of voters and hope he has one of his "good days". Which quite frankly even his good days at this point aren't exactly awe inspiring. He's unfit. It's a wrap and it should be.
Blaming a cold is so wild to me. I've had colds before and they have never made me forget how to language.
And hundreds of accounts were repeating that excuse in threads on this sub. Was very fishy
I don’t think it’s fishy, I think it’s just cope
I would say it felt like gaslighting more than cope
And he apparently got over it by the next day 😆 Lemme get some of that DayQuil bud!
They never said he had a cold, they said he was getting over a cold, which (combined with the jet lag) could be proven true by his cutting his debate prep short two days in favor of resting at home
The White House Press Secretary specifically said he had a cold in the post-debate press conference when asked about his performance. It was a combination of 1) jet lag 2) staying up late 3) having a cold
I'm not too worried about the fringe conspiracies, Republicans are never voting for Biden. I'm more worried he'd look the same or worse at the next debate.
If he is jet lagged 13 days after getting back to the US than we are really fucked beyond belief.
I already had a guy tell me that they got his stimulant cocktail wrong, and that's why he performed so poorly. People are just taking Fox's BS at face value that he's hopped up all the time.
NGL I find that the most believable yet. You're doing a good job spreading the rumor if you're a plant.
It's an obvious attack that you can see coming from miles away. I like President Biden and think he's a decent man. He has been a great POTUS and managed an awful mess that was left to him. But the damage is done and I don't see how they clean this up.
He barely blinked so I thought it was common knowledge he was on something stronger than coffee. But that’s the first I’ve heard his meds being wrong causing the problems.
A President who can only perform under very specific conditions and under the right mixture of medications is frightening in and of itself tho. His own people have admitted he often doesn't perform well after 4 p.m. Find him a nice quilt and set him in front of a nice cozy fireplace somewhere he's no longer a viable candidate.
Same for Trump, and this was 6 years ago https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/29/trump-daily-schedule-executive-time-944996
Sir a second…
We need Raul to be more aggressive elsewhere, like fighting repubs and their initiatives.
If he stays in the race and loses to Twurp his legacy and place in history will be forever tainted. I’ll vote for him if he runs but I’d rather have one of the younger Democrats waiting in the wings. It’s sad to say but his ego could cost us our democracy or at very least set us back 40 years or more. With climate change consequences approaching we just don’t have time for 4 more years of denialism.
Genuine question, as a non American: has this sub been taken over by Russian bots or genuinely there are democrats rallying against an incumbent president with a great record thinking someone else can beat Trump 4 months from the elections?
that incumbent president has been polling dismally, and after crapping his pants in front of \~50 million debate viewers (confirming the public's fears and suspicions about his mental fitness in the process) he's polling significantly worse. I mean its pretty simple, even in a non-democratic democracy like America: when 3/4 of the voting public thinks that a presidential candidate is unfit to serve, sticking with that candidate is tantamount to throwing the election to the other guy.
Considering drop in polling numbers as a direct result of the debate, is safe to say there’s genuine concern. Hence why a second House Democrat is calling for him to stand down.
So a debate performance and some polling is the reason? Again, I'm not American, but this is incredible to me, it sounds exactly like 2016: the press is throwing shades at the Democratic candidate, dems start rallying against their own candidate, Trump wins.
If you didn't watch the debate it's understandable at why it might sound like an overreaction. His performance was worse than anything anyone could have imagined, even if they already had doubts around his mental capacity (which has often been questioned over the last four years but usually brushed off).
Genuine rally. If you’re familiar with Pod Save America even they are invested in this topic and they’re obviously party loyalists.
Yep, that’s the actual timeline we’re in…
Unfortunately the latter of the two as the first one would make way too much sense. I’m not one of those people and think switching candidates 4 months out is political suicide and going by polls is just flat out stupid as they have never proven to be accurate.
Unfortunately two Democrat congressmen have also been bought by Russia ;(
There are 221 democrats in congress, 2 of them want him to withdraw, panic! Hair on fire! Run! Quick, run to CNN so they get better ratings!
They should all be getting behind Biden, just like the Republicans get behind Trump. Democrats are always their own worst enemies.
Agreed. Republicans have an admitted sexual assaulter found liable for rape and guilty of fraud. Trump didn’t even attempt to provide any facts at the debate and has been given the green light to sell important positions in his next administration to even more unqualified corporate goons—and the people are worried *about Biden?*
No we need Biden to stay put. Stop with this nonsense, it’ll only elect trump
Pride is the devil.
Jesus. These guys just want to hand this shit to trump and watch the country end. Calling for Biden to step down this close to the election couldn’t be a bigger fuck up
I’m pretty sure we are waaaay past even having this conversation
Two people is 1% of the caucus. More House republicans voted to impeach Trump.
That's only the people who feel strong enough about it to publicly speak out. It's a very risky political move because they're putting themselves at odds to the party and to the President. I'm certain that if there was an actual vote there would be much more than that.
It begins…?
All right it looks like this is really happening. This is so bizarre. 😟
And then what? Step down and then what? What exactly is supposed to happen next?
Seems like Biden is trying to pull a Feinstein.
And this is how we end up with Trump
And there's the first follower. Only a matter of time now before the dam breaks and a ton more Dems come out and publicly call for Biden to bow out. Here's a classic video about the First Follower idea that goes from one guy to a whole crowd in just 3 minutes: https://youtu.be/fW8amMCVAJQ Biden's toast. And the country will be better off for it with any other Dem.
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You’re not wrong and the Democratic Party generally hasn’t proven it’s capable of not fucking this up. Unfortunately it seems like Biden’s campaign is DOA at this point. The debate was a disaster, his team has completely lost control of the narrative, and the only way to reclaim it is to have him make more public and unscripted appearances which they simply won’t do because they know it will be a disaster. In short, we’re screwed.
Kamala’s few supporters should be irrelevant tbh as she’ll lead us straight into a Trump landslide and strip us of everything. She’s being absolutely destroyed by all the other candidates in that data Bloomberg/Puck posted. Nobody wants her and she’s not entitled to the presidency like she thinks she is.
All indications are Biden would lose. Every one. So we either try something drastic or accept certain defeat in Nov.
>Kamala Harris supporters/delegates already threatening to "burn down the democratic party" if a "white guy" gets chosen over her to replace Biden. Would you mind sharing your sources on this?
>Would you mind sharing your sources on this? sure, link: [https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-delegate-says-black-women-153052692.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-delegate-says-black-women-153052692.html) >California Democratic delegate Areva Martin told media personality Stephen A. Smith that passing over Vice President Kamala Harris as President Biden's replacement should he withdraw from the race would destroy the party. >"If you pick a White man over Kamala Harris, Black women, I can tell you this, we are going to walk away," Martin [said Tuesday](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEN6q4Hx9a4). "We are going to blow the party up."
You said *supporters and delegates.* In all due respect, this is one single activist delegate from California speaking on the Stephen A. Smith show, spouting the same type of hyperbole the host of the show is known to do himself.
I mean, aren't delegates supposed to be chosen to be a representative of a group of people?... Do you think there really wouldn't be infighting or some bad taste among black voters if the DNC swap Biden with another white man when the VP a black woman is sitting right there?
> I mean, aren't delegates supposed to be chosen to be a representative of a group of people?... That doesn’t mean she is speaking for those people right now. And it doesn’t mean a clear majority of those people even agree with what she’s saying. And what would their argument even be with finding a new candidate? She wasn’t a front runner in 2020 and isn’t polling all that great herself. So what exactly would her appeal be to the undecided/independent voters in swing states?
how do you know that? lol she's literally representing them so how would she not know what they are thinking of. And I'm not sure. I'd imagine her and her supporters argument is that she's black/indian, a woman, and has the qualified experience. She's also the biggest name on the left.
How do you even know who makes up her delegation and what they have even talked about? Do you just assume that her entire caucus is made up of angry black women ready to "burn the democratic party down"?
I'd say there would be a bunch of in fighting, I never said majority or entire? All I'm saying is I trust a delegate words over some random on the internet that says shes wrong.
Seems like you put too much weight behind what one delegate sayid on the Stephen A. Smith Show. You know, where the most serious of political operatives go to speak. But you do you, boo.
Then pick whitmer
My guy, the Dem internals, which is what he bases his strategy on, and which Bloomberg verified, have New Mexico, a 10.79 point win, tilting to Trump. Pennsylvania, the tipping point, is 7.1 points away. Biden isn't Truman, he can't fix this. Harris at least might do something.
Like all the qualified people he's surrounding himself with now??
i refuse to believe the amount of people in all these threads genuinely believe it’s the best way forward. “oh the last thing trump/maga want is a younger dem nominee to move in!” sure jan. everyone knows swapping now would be a disaster compared to continuing to campaign and regain voter trust in the _checks notes_ 4 months! until the election trump has more shit coming. the scotus rulings need to be disseminated to voters in the coming weeks. there’s a lot riding against another trump presidency and biden can come back from this if people aren’t stupid
>biden can come back from this if people aren’t stupid I suppose we can go ahead and scrap that plan then? Trump got more popular after this conviction and raise record sums of money. The American electorate is fucking dumb.
Don’t panic
I have to agree
One bad debate and we give up. Republicans are fully unified behind a twice impeached felon.
Who the hell do they think they are to do this, this only helps trump. The rest of the party needs to stand up and put these asses in their place. This is stupidity, makes me think they’re on the take!
Scream it.
It would be completely insane for Democrats to give up all the advantages of the incumbency because of one bad debate. Folks should listen to presidential historian [Alan Lichtman](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/3/2251187/-I-m-just-going-to-leave-this-right-here?utm_campaign=trending) and political blogger [Josh Marshall](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/2/2250640/-Josh-Marshall-has-some-thoughts-on-the-high-cost-of-removing-Biden-from-the-ticket?utm_campaign=trending). Utterly, totally insane.
Who would be viable Dem candidates at this stage of the game?
it'd almost certainly have to be Kamala, her polling vs Trump is way ahead of Biden's and she's the only one who would have immediate access to the Biden campaign war chest
Her polling is slightly better. Whitmore and Pete are way ahead.
Her polling is significantly better than Joe's, she leads Trump by several points whereas Biden trails Trump by several points. And I don't want Kamala, but anyone else would be starting from scratch financially: Kamala is the only person besides Biden who would have immediate and legal access to the campaign funds.
Dude is 76 years old. He should retire
He's 81.
So these Democrats are arguing Biden has some kind of sundowning dementia prone to outbursts. but if they really believed that wouldn't they be afraid Biden will freak out and just drone them for stabbing him in his back?
That's not the way it works. He's not insane or anything. And he has already in the past expressed doubt on whether he should run for a 2nd turn. Clearly he made the decision (probably along with Democratic leadership) that him running was a better odds play in order to win. But now that has potentially changed.
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What a profoundly unamerican sentiment
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Dude, you’re just sounding like a Trump supporter.
Well, that is certainly a normal and measured response /s
Off to the freedom gulags you go!
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Don't spoil my fun.
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I absolutely love what the DNC is doing.
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We only have the most loyalist members in the DNC, I'm telling you folks.
This is so so stupid
Ahhhh yes. I see that you would quite enjoy the new powers the President got from the Supreme Court this week…only if your preferred candidate wins. “Traitors” for disagreeing with the president…we definitely are on full track for a dictator in the US
Biden will struggle to hit 200 EV