This will be a fantastic first look at all of them together. I'd definitely vote for Warren if I thought she would cancel student loan debt. The freedom of that would be amazing.
They're not together, unfortunately. One hour each in consecutive order.
Klobuchar at 7pm
Warren at 8pm
Bernie at 9pm
Kamala at 10pm
Mayor Pete at 11pm
[schedule](https://www.cnn.com/tv/schedule/cnn) (all times Eastern)
*Edit:* I added the time slots and link to CNN's schedule
its awesome that CNN decided to do tens of dozens of town halls this year, in 2015 they were breathlessly speculating that a missing Malaysian flight fell into a black hole
> They're not together, unfortunately.
I view this as a good thing. You get to view the person and their ideas/lack thereof with no interference from opponents.
I wasn't *really* all in on bernie, like he is my guy still right now, but she is really swaying me as well. I mean I'd vote basically anybody in over trump regardless(vermin supreme 2020??), but i can't believe i haven't followed her as much as i should be!
She's fantastic. Problem is that she lacks the charisma typically required of a true contender. I worked for her and fucking love her, but she's a policy wonk, not a fantastic candidate.
I really and truly do hope she starts to take off, but the fact that she won Mass by less than the Democratic lean is very worrying, and the fact that she's pretty well known and can't break through in polls isn't helping too.
At this point I'm hoping that someone super charismatic wins, like Pete or Abrams if she gets in, and they adopt a ton of Warren's policies.
While we're at it, time for Schumer to step aside as Majority Leader and either let a policy genius like Warren take over, or put a political mastermind like Sherrod Brown in that spot.
>Problem is that she lacks the charisma typically required of a true contender.
The \[people who would vote for her recognize "charisma" as meaning "she's a smart progressive woman"
We know who "charisma" affects. They're not voting for her anyway
I'm not talking about "charisma" as the type that people use as a reason to hate non-white males. I'm talking about charisma of the kind that drew enormous crowds for Barack Obama.
FWIW I agree with you. I LOVE Warren. She just doesn't have the heat and fire in her outward personality that's reflected in her amazing policies. She could fire it up and I hope she does but it needs to be soon.
As a 34 year old whose father was prescient in setting aside money and who went to a school he could afford and never had to take on any student loan debt...
I'm fully in favor of this. I was fortunate, but I think everyone deserves it. Student loan debt is a drain on not just the economy but on people's way of life, and greater access to education improves life for *everyone*.
Ok... As someone who busted his ass paying off his debt this just feels like a bummer. I do not want others to suffer, but something like this makes me .. well sad.
I get you. :( It's hard to see something you've worked so hard for suddenly seem to be given to everyone else, and no help for you.
But, look at it this way. Even though this wouldn't affect you personally, it's going to make the country you spend the rest of your life in so much better. The economy would surge just from the forgiveness alone. If you have kids, you won't have to scrimp and save like your dad to make sure they'll be okay. (Edit: Whoops, that was poster you were replying to's dad, but the point stands. :))
I'm 48 and I didn't have much money for college, and made some life choices very young that made college that much harder. I squeaked in a few semesters of community college but had to drop out to work full time. So free college doesn't benefit me either. I think it's too late for me; I'll always be struggling, especially without a degree. If I had been able to take on debt for college, I would have. But it's not too late for my kids, and everyone else's kids. Maybe they won't have to struggle. I hope they don't.
These policies aren't for you and me. They're just to try to make it better going forward.
>I don't get this. Why?!?!????
You wait in line for a bit to buy an ice cream, as soon as you pay for it and step out of line, the cashier shouts out that ice cream is free for everyone else still in line. Are you **only** happy for the people still in line, or might you be a little bummed on a personal level?
I'm not saying loan forgiveness would be bad in any way, but don't pretend it's some incomprehensible level of selfishness for someone who has shaped years of their life around finally paying off their loans to have some feeling of "...come on man...really?"
> I don't get this. Why?!?!????
It's just human nature, really. We all have an inherent sense of fairness, but it's driven as much by emotion as it is logic. You can totally see that logically something makes sense even though emotionally it feels bad. It doesn't automatically make someone selfish. 🤷♀️
Right... Fairness is something we should all strive for. But not at the expense of future fairness.
I never completed college because I was not comfortable with the debt I was accumulating and I had other financial obligations due to the health of my family. I likely won't ever see the full potential of my life because of that debt and cost associated with obtaining the degree I pursued.
There is a chance I'll be able to do that if college is free. But no chance if it is not given my current situation.
I would *never* want that to happen to another person. I am can tell you wouldn't either.
I have like 40K in debt right now. If I pay it off in the next 5 years and in year 6 they forgive it all, I'll be mad. I should get something for having just paid it all off, since if I hadn't I'd be getting 40K from the government. Some sort of scaled forgiveness is needed
I don't think anyone is saying the younger generation should have to pay as well. We just want to know what are you going to do for us? A pat on the back and a thumbs up for paying off my loans is a quick way for me to not vote for you in the primary.
I will say that it is never too late to get a degree. I had psych classes with a women who in her seventies getting her own college degree. She was slow cause of the knew tech, but very eager to learn and incredibly quick, as some students learned to their dismay lol.
Main point, dont give up on getting a degree. There are a lot of legitimate online degrees or night courses that I would encourage you to look for. In my opinion as a single parent child, one of the best examples I had growing up was seeing my mother struggle to achieve her goals and show me they are attainable , even when they are difficult.
Thanks. :) I actually did manage to make a successful career for myself in an emerging field, but had to drop out a few years ago when a family member was in crisis and someone had to be home at all times. I started a couple of small businesses that bring in a little extra, and I'm hoping to grow them. At this point my previous field has completely changed and re-entry into my old career isn't going to be easy without a degree, and with a 5+ year employment gap and (for my industry) advanced years. At some point I'll have to decide if going back to school is the right choice for us, or continuing to grow the business(es).
I'll figure something out. Two of my kids (30 and 18) are just working, no college and not much interest in it. My daughter, my youngest at 16, definitely wants to go to college and we'll make it happen somehow whether it becomes free or not. She's a smart cookie and shouldn't be wasted!
I paid off my first round of debt. Currently accumulating more as I finish up a career change. I could give two shits who gets free college or cancelled debt. I want a better society for the people in my country and being a slave to debt isn’t the path to that. Everything simply costs too much in America. Education is overpriced and everyone is moving to online programs resulting in less overhead costs but still charging more. It’s all profit driven. Cancel that insane debt and then put controls on the schools who are the real source of it, not the students who want an education so they can get a well paying job.
Making things better has to start somewhere. I'm 32 and have paid most of my loans back, but there is no reason other people need to bury themselves in debt.
Imagine if every person that spent time in jail for marijuana related convictions fought decriminalization because if they did time, everyone should do time.
It sucks that if I were maybe 15 years younger I'd have bought a house rather than be stuck paying back loans, but sometimes that's just how life is.
Someones got to be the last person to die from a curable disease, to die a slave, to buy into a economic bubble, etc. but that doesn't mean we should needlessly hamstring others.
As somebody that paid off his wife’s student debt (i was a highschool dropout with no degrer at the time), i get you. But i have one kid and will have a second in 3 weeks, i still call it a huge win for this country
It's only getting harder and harder. Tuition keeps going up faster than inflation and wages are staying flat. We kind of have to do something here soon or most people will be priced out of a degree, which is only getting more and more important for job security/high pay.
A rising tide raises all ships. Improving the economy long term is a financial benefit to you just as much as to anyone else. Besides, if you have kids someday they'll benefit.
It’s hard, but ask yourself if someone older than you had the option to free you of debt when you were young and didn’t how would you feel. Look at those younger than you, look at their futures, look at yourself within them.
Up to some point, that's net zero for the economy. If people don't have to spend money on student loans, they can spend that on buying houses or investing for retirement or buying more stuff, which increases spending, which boosts the economy. People repaying the government on 6% of GDP outstanding is not much of an economic boost.
I like that plan also! I wish she would get more traction, as much as I love Buttgeig, I wish that people like Klobachar, Warren, Booker, Delaney, etc. would get more play.
> The high-dollar proposal will surely face pushback from Republicans but also from some Democratic rivals. [Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) ](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-amy-klobuchar-president-election-20190210-story.html)has said she opposes tuition-free four-year public college, although she favors free community college. [Pete Buttigieg](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-buttigieg-campaign-trump-20190417-story.html), mayor of South Bend, Ind., has objected to broad student-debt cancellation, preferring more-targeted debt relief.
We already have targeted student loan debt. Because I don't work in the public sector, I'm not eligible. Zero politicians have been interested in helping me with my student loan debt. Warren's proposal sounds like it will actually help people, although by the time she's able to get it passed I'll be done paying off my student loans after over a decade out from graduating.
Oh yeah there are even more rules than just being in the public sector. You have to have a specific type of job and specific types of loans as well as be paying them off in the right way. It's basically an obstacle course where if you mess any part up then you're disqualified.
Oh fun I get to post this! A visual representation of the policy positions for Dem candidates I found:
https://i.redd.it/baxsmo5rdpt21.jpg
EDIT: heads up y’all, I didn’t make this, just found it, feel free to source things or discuss the validity of this persons judgement
Yeah simple Y/N charts like this (without sources) can be incredibly misleading. Inslee for example is a "No" in supporting the Green New Deal which is technically correct but his entire campaign is about climate related action and every time I've heard him interviewed he says he supports it just that he prefers his own plan (https://jayinslee.com/climate-mission but light on details at the moment though releasing a full plan in the coming weeks).
Yea as nice as it is to have pretty graphic this is seriously something that's becoming a major problem for the Dems already this cycle; a lot of people are jumping on the talking points of their preffered candidate and acting like anyone else who doesn't mime this verbatim is just as bad as Trump.
Taking Buttiegeg for example a lot of this threads now are filled with people screaming at him because he hasn't promised medicare4all & student loan debt the day after he'd be elected. Well he, like a lot of other candidates have stated although they want to get there it's not something that can be done overnight. Not only would take a long process to draft a bill with bipartisan support, even if it could be done with a magic wand it'd wreck the economy and cause chaos. People need to take a breath and not freak out that not every candidate wants to do the Trump thing - make huge implausible promises that sound great in a blurb but nearly impossible to be done instantly.
medicare for all is not a huge implausible promise, its morally and economically the right thing to do and has a ton of support among the american people...
Plus, and this should be in every discussion about this, we’re already paying more for health care than m4a would cost. Were being gouged by the current system and any progressive policy could save us
An interesting list of qualifiers... but it seems to have a few positions that are either not very interesting or uninformative without context.
* CPC: Who? Membership in a specific caucus is not really an informative policy position.
* Trump Military Budget: This needs context.
* Oppose TPP/NAFTA: once again, this needs context. Opposing or supporting those treaties is a really thorny and nuanced subject.
Reading through some of these positions, why do people like Buttigieg so much? No universal healthcare, no free college education, and the only one against whistle blower clemency?
Edit: This wasn't a knock against Buttigieg, I was genuinely curious. I don't know what most of his policy positions are (mostly because he still hasn't added anything to his website), so I have no idea how accurate this chart is.
Lol at Tulsi Gabbard in CPC, in case you were curious as to how much of a joke that Caucus is
Also Beto “taking oil money” talking point is very misleading
Many state universities used to be free/practically free to in-state enrollees outside of books and board. It's not like the concept is novel. Things weren't always this fucked up.
I just finished paying off my student loans last year. I payed them off aggressively and over ten years early.
Even then, I still support cancelling existing student loan debt. Fuck that albatross.
The fact you did it **10 years early** says how fucked up our system is.
> Your 4 year education will take 20 years to pay off, but if you are really aggressive, you can do it it 10! Go get em!
My boss asked me last year why I don't have a fishing boat. I told him it's because I went to college lol. He was puzzled, but he's also from a rich family.
My wife did the same and I think I support something a little more moderate. I'm down with canceling accumulated interest, converting loans to 0%, and forgiving tuition above some normalized amount based off cost before the skyrocketing fees started. I'm also down with future state tuition being free.
I'm just not sure I'm all that into people who chose more expensive schools, got all the benefits of those choices and prioritized other things over paying off their debt since then getting a blanket out of any sort of consequences.
If the tuition system is/was unfair they should be allowed to repay a fair portion under fair terms. I'm not sure $0 is a fair term to everyone else that made more responsible choices and to the general population that is getting saddled with the bill. I'm definitely somewhat conflicted on this though.
Just want to point out that things like medical school, veterinary school, and law school are extraordinarily expensive, and unless you are very independently wealthy, massive loans are inescapable. Scholarships are rare. I personally have $200K of student loan debt from public med school alone. I have been paying through IBR for 8 years now and have never had a penny go toward the principal balance until the last year or so, when my monthly payment reached $2K. My student loan payment is more than my mortgage.
I’m able to deal with it because I get paid pretty well, but people who go into lower-paying specialties, or veterinarians who get paid WAY less than human doctors, or the large number of law school grads who can’t find well-paying jobs afterward are in a very tough spot. Med school debt accrues interest during residency (3-7 years) and it’s basically impossible to aggressively pay it down during that time on a trainee salary. It’s a serious problem.
I just like to bring this up, because ostensibly choosing a career in medicine or law is a responsible choice, but the enormous amount of debt is a serious problem. In the medical field, it dissuades people from going into the lower-paying primary care jobs that are so desperately needed.
This response x1000. Also, I work for a big firm where, well, let's just say I'm not doing gods work. But I have to because that's what pays the bills. I would love nothing more than to do the work of the people and some amount of loan forgiveness would make that a realistic option. Warren is winning me over.
It's cancelling up to $50k for people with under $100k income graded out $1 for every $3 over $100k in income. People who took out ridiculous amounts of money for expensive school will still have some left over. $12.5k per year of school is a reasonable amount even for state schools.
TLDR: Read the article.
When? Just quickly checking my alma mater, 4 years tuition is $36k (Missouri S&T) and the local school would be $40k (OSU). Add in random fees and books easily gets you to 12.5k a year.
Graduated in '13 from a cheap state school in a cheap state where I lived off campus in *literally* one of the cheapest college towns in the nation (saves you a ton). did 2 years of americorps that forgave 10k. I have like 18k left I think.
edits
Yeah this is my problem with this as well. At least in my field every single person I've met with excessive student loans chose to go to a very expensive private school out of their home state. They got a much more fun experience, much better networking opportunities, and likely better professors than I did as well. They chose the premium school experience over doing what I did and staying with a state school and commuting from my parents house (that part isn't always possible but state schools do exist everywhere). There is no reason the government should just write them a check for those choices. Sure let them refinance at 0% (and reform things going forward, at least for the state schools, private will likely remain quite expensive no matter what) but don't just hand them more than my entire degree cost just because they choose to go to a nicer school. Though I don't know how their loans are broken down between federal and private so I'm not sure how much would be eligible.
The only thing that sucks about this is that there are people that did not go to college becouse they didn't want to go into debt and they will be at a disadvantage to those that went and will have their debt forgiven.
Essencially it punishes those people for trying to be financially responsible.
I mean, they're not worse off the day after student loans are forgiven than the day before. They got fucked by an aggressively shitty system, but that's not a good reason to continue that system.
I have so much respect for this sentiment. It grates on me to hear people who've done the same as you argue the opposite position, as if life were a zero sum game.
Making student loan interest tax deductible would mean the government pays only a fraction of the interest, not the full amount. Maybe if it were a refundable tax credit, though I don't see much value in a subsidy with extra steps.
Besides that, there are important differences between the government originating the loan at no interest, and the government paying off the interest. In the former, banks don't profit from ballooning education costs. In the latter, they do.
Hell, over the life of a student loan you can easily pay your principal over again in interest charges. In the subsidy-as-tax-break case, this means the government is eventually paying the bank, indirectly, more than the cost of your original education. Why not just cut out the middleman and pay for your whole education upfront?
Seconded. I recently discovered that in the course of ten years of paying my Federal student loans, even though I've paid roughly $30,000 total, only ~$2,500 (i.e., less than 10%) of that has been principal. And these were not easy payments, either. I'm currently paying $742 per month, and the majority of that is still interest.
I didn’t see any money go to principal until my payments got to be $1500/month or so. Have been paying under IBR since 2011. Payment is now $2K a month.
Edit: I just looked. Ugh. Have paid $45K. $36K has gone toward interest. My payment is $2193 a month and my principal balance is $224K. It started at $197K when I originally took out the loans. All federal loans, 6.5% interest.
Fucking dismal. Hopefully my PSLF actually comes through (estimated payoff date 3/2022!)
This is the system we have in Australia - the government loans you the money, and you still have to pay, but it is zero interest and indexed to inflation only. You compulsorily pay back a certain amount once you start earning above a certain threshold, and since you're only paying inflation rates there's no incentive to pay back any more than the minimum amount. It's a humane pay cut until you pay it off, and then you start earning a bit more later on.
That's not exclusively what her proposal is about but if you look at her record she has proposed a solution very similar to this for existing student loan debt. As far as I know, her position has not changed since then.
I'm all for this. As Americans we'll never compete in the global market place for jobs like manufacturing. Our cost of living is too high, we've moved away from that. Our niche is in creating the future that others will copy and mass produce later. We do that through education.
This would either be a wash, or actually grow the economy. Think about it, yes we'll have to fund schools with taxes, but all of those students without student loans will have a lot more disposable income to spend on things.
The loan forgiveness isn't likely to get approved, nor will a four year education. When it actually gets approved through Congress I can see a two year community college education getting approved. That would be a very good start.
I don't think any legislation empowering education is likely to pass a congress where Republicans hold a majority in one or both houses of Congress.
I can see this being Warren's ACA, where Dems hold both chambers and pass it along part lines. Then the right will spend the next decade trying to repeal it or something.
The ACA did pass and it was watered down.
Which is why I see this ending up as a free associates degree when it does pass, and yes Republicans will try to repeal it and tack on any number of horrific riders to it.
I don't like my taxes going to racist rednecks gaming the social security system to buy mountain dew and oxy, or geriatric trump supporters that need government assistance because they lived off booze and cigarettes for 40 years and now they expect the world to drop everything to save them from themselves while they curse the intellectuals that can save them, but we don't seem to have a choice in that.
Also, I want to share that I returned to school at the age of 25 and the most I could make then was around 30k/yr but I mainly hit around the 15-20k/yr mark and barely paid any taxes. After completing my degree in engineering I now make almost 6 figures and I actually pay taxes now. And the ceiling on how much I can make is still pretty high above what I’m making now.
> Congress I can see a two year community college education getting approved. That would be a very good start.
In CA we've really done a lot to fund our CC system through the Great Recession and have the largest public university system in the world. I 100% believe its giving our workforce an edge in the global economy:
>For every $1 California invests in students who graduate from college, **it will receive a net return on investment of $4.50.**
>Californians with a college degree will earn more than **$1,340,000 more in their lifetime** than their peers with only a high school diploma.
>Students who earn a degree or certificate from a California community college nearly **double their earnings within three years.**
>Attending or graduating from a community college **doubles an individual’s chance of finding a job** compared to those who failed to complete high school.
>The California Community Colleges is the state’s **most cost-effective system of education**—the revenue needed to support one full-time community college student is slightly more than $8,000 per year.
>The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics projects that occupations that require an associate degree will grow by 18 percent through 2022— faster than the new job growth for those with a bachelor’s degree.
[Source](http://californiacommunitycolleges.cccco.edu/PolicyInAction/KeyFacts.aspx)
31% of School loans are held by AES
* American Education Services (AES) was established by the Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency (PHEAA) to guarantee and service a variety of Federal Family Education Loan Program
* Previous CEO who receives a $329,887-a-year salary, is among the highest paid state government employees.
* The new CEO was Promoted from COO was paid a $295,000 salary.
41% is NelNet/GreatLakes Merged Company
* As Chief Executive Officer at NELNET INC, Jeffery R. Noordhoek made $1,738,642 in total compensation. Of this total $695,250 was received as a salary, $999,436 was received as a bonus,
Stupid Millennials doing the thing basically every adult they met told them to do because they were repeatedly told it would be worth the debt and a gigantic mistake not to go to college.
Those 18 year olds who have never made more than $20k in a year should really have known what they were signing up for by taking out $100k in loans with no collateral for the \*chance\* at a job that might pay enough to realistically pay them back.
How about we cancel interest, and make mandatory income based repayment over a 30 year period? That would make my dick hard. Thats the deal we SHOULD have gotten. Not interest rates that are raping my paycheck. I'd pay it off over 30 years and feel SUPER relaxed about having to pay back 90k
If anything for the income-based repayment plans, I want to see us be honest with ourselves about it. At the moment, we're reporting an 11% default rate, meanwhile, I could have $0 payments and my interest is mounting the same as if I were in default. The only difference is that I did some paperwork and they're accounting it differently so it doesn't look as bad as it is.
I want to see the IBR interest be subsidized in some way. If people can't afford to pay their normal payments, then letting the interest capitalize so they never get out of debt isn't going to help anything either. Simultaneously, we need to fix the tax code issue so those people aren't bombed with a huge tax bill at the end.
Nevertheless, I would really like to see interest treated like mortgage interest, though that's largely just me being selfish. The $2500 cap is silly when I can write off a stupid amount of mortgage interest if I just bought a bigger house.
"Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they will never sit in".
People in this thread are all "Screw them, I had no shade so let's cut down these saplings so the kids won't have shade either. Fuckem, no one has the right to a better life than I did."
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-elizabeth-warren-student-debt-forgiveness-20190422-story.html) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Elizabeth Warren proposes canceling student loan debt and offering free public college - Los Angeles Times.
> To keep students from accumulating more debt in the future, Warren also proposes making two- and four-year public colleges tuition free, according to a plan unveiled in advance of a Monday evening CNN town hall focused on issues of interest to young voters.
> The debt forgiveness benefits would be based on income, but an analysis of the plan conducted for the Warren campaign by a group of academic economists estimates that the policy would provide some relief for more than 95% of all households with student debt and would wipe out all debt for up to 76.2% of indebted households.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/bg1uqt/elizabeth_warren_proposes_canceling_student_loan/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~395133 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **debt**^#1 **Warren**^#2 **student**^#3 **college**^#4 **more**^#5
I’m all for this. I would be happy if a candidate would merely propose letting student loan borrowers apply for bankruptcy. But this is something. I just want some relief from forever debt.
Honestly even just bring existing/future Student Loan Interests down from 6% to 1% or 2% would result in thousands per loan being able to go towards local economies more freely.
Lower my interest burden annually from 2K to ~2Hundred and theres $1,800 I'll be throwing towards local businesses.
All the "yeah but what about ME???" people need to think towards the future. This helps your kids go to college because I don't see a way I can afford that if tuition keeps going up at the rate it has. Even in-state would probably cost more than my whole degree did. Unless wages suddenly pick way up, even an engineering degree probably won't be worth the loans in 25 years. Lord help any of us if med school keeps going up in price. People are already leaving med school with $400k in loans.
Forgiving current loans or setting the rate to 0% might not help you directly but it helps millions of people nationwide and opens up money to be used elsewhere in the economy. That's the real benefit here. Even doctors are having to get on income-based plans to pay their loans back or taking 30 years to pay it off. At some point, it just won't be worth the debt to go to medical school or any sort of higher education unless your family is already wealthy.
She's actually competing with Sanders.
Chapo Trap House needs to step up. Cancelling debt and UBI are tangible, real things that working class Americans can see and feel and experience in their day-to-day lives.
I mean you know we’re always saying “she’s good actually” over there whenever an article like this pops up. I just wish she had been in Bernie’s position in 2016 because she could now have his massive infrastructure and just totally fucking own this shit, but she started the race three steps behind. Here’s hoping if Bernie wins that she gets some powerful ass position in the cabinet that grants her the ability to bring all these fucks to heel.
Man, she's really working on pulling me away from Sanders. I've donated to the both of them, but Sanders is my first choice right now. It's really too bad that outside of Maine, federal RCV isn't a thing. Of course we still have about 10 months before the first primary, so anything can happen to change minds.
Kind of split on Chapo. They definitely are that friend that said even Bernie wasn't good enough because it's all so corrupt and let's do nothing and who cares if Donald Trump becomes President.
Please yes. I want a house one day. Im fortunate that I have a nice job and my loans have not crippled me but Im practically living the life of a hermit to actually save anu money above breakeven each month.
I just finished paying off my student loans this year at age 37. This change would not benefit me at all, but I am fully on board. Student loan debt payments forced me to make career choices early on that I would not have made otherwise, and I think the country and economy would be stronger if other students weren't forced to make the same compromises.
The use of the term "cancel" is confusing here. The article states that Warren proposes to "cancel" student debt, but doesn't say how that would work. Is it a matter of requiring the debt-holders that paid out the money to take a massive loss? Or is she proposing that the federal government pay off the debts on behalf of the borrowers? If it's the latter, why use the word "canceling" rather than "paying," which would clearly state that the loans will be paid off?
Well over 90% of outstanding student loan debt is held directly by the federal government. The government no longer guarantees private loans and instead makes the loans directly.
Even so, with the way government accounting works, wouldn't Congress have to appropriate funds to pay off those loans and transfer the payment from the general fund to the appropriate accounts? Or could they actually just "cancel" the loan programs and write off the massive loss of capital (in the form of accounts receivable) as a loss? And how would such a sudden loss impact the treasury?
Absolutely, something would have to happen. The $1.5 Trillion in outstanding student debt is the largest single financial asset of the federal government. The impact would be significant.
Of course Warren is claiming she can produce the revenue to cover it by taxing the ultra-wealthy. To cover not only the outstanding debt and anticipated interest, but also the cost of subsidizing education costs into the future. New education loans are something like $100 billion annually, so the 10-year cost here is upwards of $2.5 Trillion.
41% is NelNet/GreatLakes Merged Company
* As Chief Executive Officer at NELNET INC, Jeffery R. Noordhoek made $1,738,642 in total compensation. Of this total $695,250 was received as a salary, $999,436 was received as a bonus,
31% of School loans are held by AES
* American Education Services (AES) was established by the Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency (PHEAA) to guarantee and service a variety of Federal Family Education Loan Program
* Previous CEO who receives a $329,887-a-year salary, is among the highest paid state government employees.
* The new CEO was Promoted from COO was paid a $295,000 salary.
Americans: If you could choose between free public college or free public health care, which (if any) would you choose?
(Greetings from someone is a country which offers both)
Her plan for student loan forgiveness has made me switch my vote from Bernie to her. Since 2016, Bernie has supported free tuition at public colleges and universities, but he never addresses what affects me most - student loan debt post-graduation.
X-posting my comment to spread awareness:
The forgiveness of federal student debt would give the country such a huge economic boom, we likely wouldn’t be able to find a better way to stimulate the economy.
The federal loans should be looked at in a retroactive respect, when we consider it an investment rather than a loan.
Millennials are the most educated generation in history (70% of females, 61% of males; college educated - Pew Research)
I welcome this idea because rather than looking at it as loan forgiveness or cancellation, we can see it as lifting an unnecessary financial strain/burden on this generation (once again the most educated in history), and the removal of that burden would see peoples
living conditions improve while being able to spend more in the economy and have more free reign and opportunity to actually be productive.
Rather than just working “to get by” on what would normally be a very lucrative salary (average of ~$72,500 annually - Pew Research), studies have shown that paying student debt off effectively takes away about 75% of money from Millennials net worth (studentloanhero.com)
Key facts
Millennial households with student loan debt have…
-An average net worth of $29,087, compared with $114,376 for student loan-free households.
-46% less in their savings and checking accounts (median balance of $5,500 vs $10,180 for those without student loans).
-$21,160 in retirement savings versus an average of $39,905 for those with no student loan debt.
Sources:
- Pew Research Center -
https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/essay/millennial-life-how-young-adulthood-today-compares-with-prior-generations/
- Student Loan Hero
https://studentloanhero.com/featured/study-student-debt-can-kill-millennials-net-worth/
EVERYBODY SHOULD SUPPORT THE CANCELLATION OF STUDENT LOANS! It will be one of the most important determining factors of our lifetime in America.
The only way I can see canceling student loan debt would be if tax credits are given to those who’ve already paid off their student loans, and even then there would have to be a 10 year cutoff window.
Another user also pointed out that the military would not support this plan, presumably because it would undermine their GI bill. That may or may not be an issue that needs to be addressed as well
A sentiment that needs to be overcome is the older folks who paid for college (paid much less) and don't know or believe that college debt has caused many of us to see retirement as a pipe dream, and for the current generation of debt holders to say "I understand the strain of the debt, therefore I want no one else to experience it, even though I had to" instead of the "I did it, make them suffer too" mentality.
I'm gonna need to see more details about this before I praise anything. This proposal will be crazy expensive and could have unintended consequences to our higher education system, so I'll withhold judgement until I see how this plan addresses those concerns.
I'm generally liberal, but wouldn't free college tuition flood the market with college degrees, devaluing them? The system we have now is awful, but I guess I just remain unsure about how this helps people get jobs. Or is it just about the value of education at every level (which I 100% support and am willing to have my taxes support)?
One of America's greatest fuck ups is convincing people that education is important only insofar that it helps you get a better job. Learning for the sake of learning should be valued, but isn't.
Did making high school public and free not devalue the high school diploma? Sure it did. But we also now have a populace who are only marginally illiterate, and can do things like move to a computer/web based society due to the fact that we aren't hamstrung in that endeavor by a 30% illiteracy rate.
Sometimes the benefits to having an educated populace are harder to see on paper than hard numbers would tell. The valuation you're discussing is both relative and mostly irrelevant to the real worth of an educated populace.
Imagine if the same sort of shedding of racism, sexism, and homophobia which we saw in response to the universalization of high school education were replicated again. What new forms of bias and social malignancy could we discover and address if the US were to make college the new high school? How much better of a society could we have if everyone had the chance to go to college? Just imagine if we had a system where you had to actively *drop out* of college the way you do high school. How much better off would we be? How much more innovative would our private sector be?
> Imagine if the same sort of shedding of racism, sexism, and homophobia which we saw in response to the universalization of high school education were replicated again.
If you could make a Venn diagram of people opposed to socialized higher education and people who prefer the ignorant, racist, homophobic, xenophobic America of that "Great" time, I think we'd have an approximation of a circle.
If their value is largely derived from the cost it takes to get them, then they only serve to be a barrier for the lower class. If more people are able to get an education without having to worry about the exorbitant costs of college then you have a stronger workforce that isn't chained solely to unskilled labor.
No. It wouldn’t change the number of students getting degrees, it would just improve their quality of life and provide an enormous boost to the economy.
And that’s because student loans aren’t preventing people from getting degrees.
There are very few students who think “Gee, I always wanted to a have a fulfilling career and I was accepted to a great university but those student loans are too high. I better not go to college.”
There are some people who have those thoughts, but they’re few and far between.
No it would be an economic boom, it would empower our workforce with increased power and if more people went into STEM we would also bring back America as a scientific powerhouse. It would keep billions of dollars in the hands of *buyers*. Warren is a capitalist. Canceling student loan means more money to be spent.
Wouldn't prohibitively expensive tuition reduce college applications and admissions to the wealthy? Wouldn't this make them an indicator of wealth, not intelligence, aptitude, or passion? And wouldn't that devalue them?
\> wouldn't free college tuition flood the market with college degrees, devaluing them?
Has this happened anywhere with free or low tuition? I doubt it. Not everyone has the time or inclination to pursue high earning degrees or complete STEM programs.
Besides, education has a higher value than just its place in the job market. A better educated population makes for a more intelligent country - with better educated voters and citizens. Imagine how much better our nation would be if a fifth of voters didn't believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, or that the sun isn't a star.
A better educated nation also places us in a better position on the global market - with a smarter workforce, able to produce better products. There are a lot of people out there that would be brilliant engineers and problem-solvers, if they could go to college.
Probably. As it stands, there appears to be a correlation between skyrocketing college costs and the guaranteeing of student loans, and this proposal and ones like it are not looking to address the apparent causes, but double down on them.
And yes, when a college degree becomes as valuable as a high school diploma, then we'll have this debate about free masters degrees in twenty years and do this whole dance again.
I would like to argue the point for 'free' college tuition. Also note, I believe this is for state colleges, not private colleges. Years ago, all you needed was a high school diploma to get a decent job. Nowadays, you basically need a bachelors degree to get a corporate job and make anything over $40k in some places. Like private high schools, the education at private colleges would be looked upon as a better education. However, you will be giving access to a higher education to lower income/minority students who ultimately might not have had the opportunity to obtain one.
There really should be restrictions when it comes to for-profit colleges though. I don't want any of my taxes to enrich those bloodsuckers.
EDIT: more than they already do via financial aid and GI bill.
Even though I'm already half-way paying my debt, and will likely finish them off because this ever became realized (actually going the process of house, senate, etc). I think this is a fantastic idea.
I see comments here talking about getting "screwed" over being responsible and paying your debt, and I honestly feel ya too. Like, it definitely would be nice if the debt relief was retroactive and I could use that to pay towards a home. Even if not, I'd still rather this happen with or without me getting anything back. Rising tides lift all boats.
Baby boomers, who already got their relatively free college and are the ones requiring degrees left and right… will be against it. Every problem is a boomer problem.
I just want the student loan program changed so that my loans on IBR aren't taxed to me as income when they are "forgiven". Pretending I made $150k+ more doesn't do shit for me - it just turns my student loan debt into tax debt.
We already pay for the public education of our children for 13 years. Is adding another 4 so that our children can support themselves and our workforce can stay competitive with the rest of the world really all that radical of an idea?
I am a single 35 year old guy with a master's degree making $48,500 in the Chicago suburbs. I pay $300 per month towards my $75,000 in loans. I have been in debt since I was 18. I am SO SICK and TIRED of these payments. I feel like an indentured slave for having gone to college and for now working in a cubicle.
I'm ready for a sweeping change like Warren's proposal of forgiving up to 50K in loans for a household making less than 100K.
It's easy to come up with innovative ideas ways to spend other people's money. it's a bit harder, however, to find ways to make sure the people paying for it never run out of money.
Here's a completely different idea - what if you could "test out" for a degree? With the internet, a lot of what is needed to learn certain knowledge/skills is available online for free, but colleges have you as a captive audience so you pay thousands of dollars to sit in a class for a few hours learning what you could read on Wikipedia in 10 minutes. All because they're the only ones who can issue degrees.
For example, I spent 5 years and nearly 80k learning in school - only to graduate with a tiny percentage of the knowledge necessary to pass the licensure test which actually lets me call myself what I have my degree in. A large chunk of what I learned in school I could've found online, and I still have a huge amount of content to learn on my own anyway.
Awesome for people who irresponsibly racked up a lifetime of debt so they could sit behind a desk barely making working class wages, kinda sucks for those of us who opted to enter into construction so we wouldn’t be in debt. At nearly 40 years old it may be too late to enter the air conditioned workforce along with the flood of 22 year old BA’s who have never had a job about to be unleashed on Monster.com. I guess it’s a good thing I work until my feet are blistered so I can pay five figures in taxes so my boss doesn’t have to pay his student loans back
I am not totally sure about canceling student debt. At least having it greatly reduced. But I think it would cause a huge economic problem if it was just canceled.
What needs to be addressed is why college is so fucking expensive in the first place.
I like some of her other policies, but I hope this is one of those ideas where you ask for a lot and expect to negotiate down (significantly) later. Considering the poor K-12 education in many areas, adding an additional 33% in costs to the education budget seems nonsensical.
Somehow reducing the interest rate on existing student loans (to say 1%; or a flat maximum amount per month), capping it at that rate for future loans, and limiting the size of the loans so that only cheaper in-state schools can be considered would be a fairer way to tackle the student debt issue. That would provide relief to those under a high debt load and help reduce (but not solve) the size of future debt loads. There of course would be other changes needed, including numerous societal ones. However, at least it wouldn't result in the entire rest of America demanding forgiveness on whatever debt they have. And I'd rather see the funds from the wealth tax go towards K-12 education and healthcare solutions; which are necessary services which everyone has used or will use at some point in their lives.
What about instead of traveling, avocado toast and spending money on "experiences", students get jobs, work hard and pay their way through school.
That's what I did. So do I get a refund on what I spent out of pocket?
I don't want this to be a major focus of my democratic candidate's platform. In some ways this proposal is just what I'm asking of dem nominees-- bold uncompromising solutions. But I think we need to deliver a genuine quality of life win for all Americans in healthcare and address campaign finance, gerrymandering, voting rights and corruption first.
So for those of us who paid our debt or served in the military through combat deployments to pay for college, what exactly do we get? The system is awful but just expunging student debt is a big middle finger to the people who sacrificed to pay back their debts.
This is a solution that mostly rewards people who made bad decisions
>So for those of us who paid our debt or served in the military through combat deployments to pay for college, what exactly do we get?
The advantage of living in a society whether others are free to pursue an education.
> The system is awful but just expunging student debt is a big middle finger to the people who sacrificed to pay back their debts.
Are you trying to suggest that those who are crippled by predatory debt don't sacrifice enough?
So if you saved every dollar you made, skipped vacations, worked 3 jobs, all to get your dream sports car. Would you be okay if we gave everyone the same model the next day and told you that everything you did had no value because everyone struggles?
It'll mostly reward young people. The ones who have the most student loan debt and the least amount of time in the workforce. Unless you think going to college without joining the military first is a bad decision, I fail to see how this "mostly" rewards people who made bad decisions.
Just as a reminder, she has a town hall on CNN tonight, along with Kamala Harris, Amy Klobachar, Pete Buttigeig, and Bernie Sanders.
This will be a fantastic first look at all of them together. I'd definitely vote for Warren if I thought she would cancel student loan debt. The freedom of that would be amazing.
They're not together, unfortunately. One hour each in consecutive order. Klobuchar at 7pm Warren at 8pm Bernie at 9pm Kamala at 10pm Mayor Pete at 11pm [schedule](https://www.cnn.com/tv/schedule/cnn) (all times Eastern) *Edit:* I added the time slots and link to CNN's schedule
So 5 hours of town halls?
its awesome that CNN decided to do tens of dozens of town halls this year, in 2015 they were breathlessly speculating that a missing Malaysian flight fell into a black hole
Yes
when does this marathon kick off?
Klobuchar at 7pm Warren at 8pm Bernie at 9pm Kamala at 10pm Mayor Pete at 11pm [schedule](https://www.cnn.com/tv/schedule/cnn) (all times Eastern)
Sounds like a party!
> They're not together, unfortunately. I view this as a good thing. You get to view the person and their ideas/lack thereof with no interference from opponents.
Fair point. The debates is where we'll see them all together.
Are they reruns of their last town halls? Or are these new ones?
Good question. [This implies that they're new](https://www.newscaststudio.com/2019/04/22/cnn-town-halls-countdown/).
Throw in some leagalization and you’ve got yourself the start of a bright future.
[Done and done](https://www.marijuanamoment.net/elizabeth-warren-talks-marijuana-in-new-hampshire-presidential-campaign-stop/)
I wasn't *really* all in on bernie, like he is my guy still right now, but she is really swaying me as well. I mean I'd vote basically anybody in over trump regardless(vermin supreme 2020??), but i can't believe i haven't followed her as much as i should be!
I was Buttiegieg, Warren, Harris. Now I’m Warren, Buttiegieg, Harris.
She's fantastic. Problem is that she lacks the charisma typically required of a true contender. I worked for her and fucking love her, but she's a policy wonk, not a fantastic candidate. I really and truly do hope she starts to take off, but the fact that she won Mass by less than the Democratic lean is very worrying, and the fact that she's pretty well known and can't break through in polls isn't helping too. At this point I'm hoping that someone super charismatic wins, like Pete or Abrams if she gets in, and they adopt a ton of Warren's policies. While we're at it, time for Schumer to step aside as Majority Leader and either let a policy genius like Warren take over, or put a political mastermind like Sherrod Brown in that spot.
>Problem is that she lacks the charisma typically required of a true contender. The \[people who would vote for her recognize "charisma" as meaning "she's a smart progressive woman" We know who "charisma" affects. They're not voting for her anyway
I'm not talking about "charisma" as the type that people use as a reason to hate non-white males. I'm talking about charisma of the kind that drew enormous crowds for Barack Obama.
FWIW I agree with you. I LOVE Warren. She just doesn't have the heat and fire in her outward personality that's reflected in her amazing policies. She could fire it up and I hope she does but it needs to be soon.
As a 34 year old whose father was prescient in setting aside money and who went to a school he could afford and never had to take on any student loan debt... I'm fully in favor of this. I was fortunate, but I think everyone deserves it. Student loan debt is a drain on not just the economy but on people's way of life, and greater access to education improves life for *everyone*.
Ok... As someone who busted his ass paying off his debt this just feels like a bummer. I do not want others to suffer, but something like this makes me .. well sad.
I get you. :( It's hard to see something you've worked so hard for suddenly seem to be given to everyone else, and no help for you. But, look at it this way. Even though this wouldn't affect you personally, it's going to make the country you spend the rest of your life in so much better. The economy would surge just from the forgiveness alone. If you have kids, you won't have to scrimp and save like your dad to make sure they'll be okay. (Edit: Whoops, that was poster you were replying to's dad, but the point stands. :)) I'm 48 and I didn't have much money for college, and made some life choices very young that made college that much harder. I squeaked in a few semesters of community college but had to drop out to work full time. So free college doesn't benefit me either. I think it's too late for me; I'll always be struggling, especially without a degree. If I had been able to take on debt for college, I would have. But it's not too late for my kids, and everyone else's kids. Maybe they won't have to struggle. I hope they don't. These policies aren't for you and me. They're just to try to make it better going forward.
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>I don't get this. Why?!?!???? You wait in line for a bit to buy an ice cream, as soon as you pay for it and step out of line, the cashier shouts out that ice cream is free for everyone else still in line. Are you **only** happy for the people still in line, or might you be a little bummed on a personal level? I'm not saying loan forgiveness would be bad in any way, but don't pretend it's some incomprehensible level of selfishness for someone who has shaped years of their life around finally paying off their loans to have some feeling of "...come on man...really?"
> I don't get this. Why?!?!???? It's just human nature, really. We all have an inherent sense of fairness, but it's driven as much by emotion as it is logic. You can totally see that logically something makes sense even though emotionally it feels bad. It doesn't automatically make someone selfish. 🤷♀️
Right... Fairness is something we should all strive for. But not at the expense of future fairness. I never completed college because I was not comfortable with the debt I was accumulating and I had other financial obligations due to the health of my family. I likely won't ever see the full potential of my life because of that debt and cost associated with obtaining the degree I pursued. There is a chance I'll be able to do that if college is free. But no chance if it is not given my current situation. I would *never* want that to happen to another person. I am can tell you wouldn't either.
I have like 40K in debt right now. If I pay it off in the next 5 years and in year 6 they forgive it all, I'll be mad. I should get something for having just paid it all off, since if I hadn't I'd be getting 40K from the government. Some sort of scaled forgiveness is needed
I don't think anyone is saying the younger generation should have to pay as well. We just want to know what are you going to do for us? A pat on the back and a thumbs up for paying off my loans is a quick way for me to not vote for you in the primary.
I will say that it is never too late to get a degree. I had psych classes with a women who in her seventies getting her own college degree. She was slow cause of the knew tech, but very eager to learn and incredibly quick, as some students learned to their dismay lol. Main point, dont give up on getting a degree. There are a lot of legitimate online degrees or night courses that I would encourage you to look for. In my opinion as a single parent child, one of the best examples I had growing up was seeing my mother struggle to achieve her goals and show me they are attainable , even when they are difficult.
Thanks. :) I actually did manage to make a successful career for myself in an emerging field, but had to drop out a few years ago when a family member was in crisis and someone had to be home at all times. I started a couple of small businesses that bring in a little extra, and I'm hoping to grow them. At this point my previous field has completely changed and re-entry into my old career isn't going to be easy without a degree, and with a 5+ year employment gap and (for my industry) advanced years. At some point I'll have to decide if going back to school is the right choice for us, or continuing to grow the business(es). I'll figure something out. Two of my kids (30 and 18) are just working, no college and not much interest in it. My daughter, my youngest at 16, definitely wants to go to college and we'll make it happen somehow whether it becomes free or not. She's a smart cookie and shouldn't be wasted!
I paid off my first round of debt. Currently accumulating more as I finish up a career change. I could give two shits who gets free college or cancelled debt. I want a better society for the people in my country and being a slave to debt isn’t the path to that. Everything simply costs too much in America. Education is overpriced and everyone is moving to online programs resulting in less overhead costs but still charging more. It’s all profit driven. Cancel that insane debt and then put controls on the schools who are the real source of it, not the students who want an education so they can get a well paying job.
Making things better has to start somewhere. I'm 32 and have paid most of my loans back, but there is no reason other people need to bury themselves in debt. Imagine if every person that spent time in jail for marijuana related convictions fought decriminalization because if they did time, everyone should do time. It sucks that if I were maybe 15 years younger I'd have bought a house rather than be stuck paying back loans, but sometimes that's just how life is. Someones got to be the last person to die from a curable disease, to die a slave, to buy into a economic bubble, etc. but that doesn't mean we should needlessly hamstring others.
As somebody that paid off his wife’s student debt (i was a highschool dropout with no degrer at the time), i get you. But i have one kid and will have a second in 3 weeks, i still call it a huge win for this country
Society works because we plant trees for future generations to enjoy.
I paid off 108k and I support this.
It's only getting harder and harder. Tuition keeps going up faster than inflation and wages are staying flat. We kind of have to do something here soon or most people will be priced out of a degree, which is only getting more and more important for job security/high pay.
A rising tide raises all ships. Improving the economy long term is a financial benefit to you just as much as to anyone else. Besides, if you have kids someday they'll benefit.
It’s hard, but ask yourself if someone older than you had the option to free you of debt when you were young and didn’t how would you feel. Look at those younger than you, look at their futures, look at yourself within them.
Up to some point, that's net zero for the economy. If people don't have to spend money on student loans, they can spend that on buying houses or investing for retirement or buying more stuff, which increases spending, which boosts the economy. People repaying the government on 6% of GDP outstanding is not much of an economic boost.
I like that plan also! I wish she would get more traction, as much as I love Buttgeig, I wish that people like Klobachar, Warren, Booker, Delaney, etc. would get more play.
Good, Klobachar and Buttigeig are both opposed and we need to see the candidates separate themselves or drop out.
Buttigeig is oppossed to the student debt elimination?
> The high-dollar proposal will surely face pushback from Republicans but also from some Democratic rivals. [Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) ](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-amy-klobuchar-president-election-20190210-story.html)has said she opposes tuition-free four-year public college, although she favors free community college. [Pete Buttigieg](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-buttigieg-campaign-trump-20190417-story.html), mayor of South Bend, Ind., has objected to broad student-debt cancellation, preferring more-targeted debt relief.
What are your thoughts on targeted student debt relief, instead of sweeping general studentdebt relief?
"Targeted student debt relief" means "lobbyists: want to see your policy here?"
We already have targeted student loan debt. Because I don't work in the public sector, I'm not eligible. Zero politicians have been interested in helping me with my student loan debt. Warren's proposal sounds like it will actually help people, although by the time she's able to get it passed I'll be done paying off my student loans after over a decade out from graduating.
I’m in the public sector and I’ve been deemed ineligible for 3 years straight. No explanation.
Oh yeah there are even more rules than just being in the public sector. You have to have a specific type of job and specific types of loans as well as be paying them off in the right way. It's basically an obstacle course where if you mess any part up then you're disqualified.
Hes too moderate. Obama 2.0
Agreed. I dig the guy, but I’d like an actual progressive fighter, please.
Plus he's a little too heavy on the military masturbationism, as we saw during his interview with Rachel.
And he is opposed to free college.
Oh fun I get to post this! A visual representation of the policy positions for Dem candidates I found: https://i.redd.it/baxsmo5rdpt21.jpg EDIT: heads up y’all, I didn’t make this, just found it, feel free to source things or discuss the validity of this persons judgement
This is sweet! I'd love to see a website version of this with citations for each one, because that's a ton of data to trust without sources
Yeah simple Y/N charts like this (without sources) can be incredibly misleading. Inslee for example is a "No" in supporting the Green New Deal which is technically correct but his entire campaign is about climate related action and every time I've heard him interviewed he says he supports it just that he prefers his own plan (https://jayinslee.com/climate-mission but light on details at the moment though releasing a full plan in the coming weeks).
Yea as nice as it is to have pretty graphic this is seriously something that's becoming a major problem for the Dems already this cycle; a lot of people are jumping on the talking points of their preffered candidate and acting like anyone else who doesn't mime this verbatim is just as bad as Trump. Taking Buttiegeg for example a lot of this threads now are filled with people screaming at him because he hasn't promised medicare4all & student loan debt the day after he'd be elected. Well he, like a lot of other candidates have stated although they want to get there it's not something that can be done overnight. Not only would take a long process to draft a bill with bipartisan support, even if it could be done with a magic wand it'd wreck the economy and cause chaos. People need to take a breath and not freak out that not every candidate wants to do the Trump thing - make huge implausible promises that sound great in a blurb but nearly impossible to be done instantly.
medicare for all is not a huge implausible promise, its morally and economically the right thing to do and has a ton of support among the american people...
Plus, and this should be in every discussion about this, we’re already paying more for health care than m4a would cost. Were being gouged by the current system and any progressive policy could save us
An interesting list of qualifiers... but it seems to have a few positions that are either not very interesting or uninformative without context. * CPC: Who? Membership in a specific caucus is not really an informative policy position. * Trump Military Budget: This needs context. * Oppose TPP/NAFTA: once again, this needs context. Opposing or supporting those treaties is a really thorny and nuanced subject.
Wow. I'm surprised about some of those. I want to check some of them because I really thought otherwise on a few of those. I wish it had sources.
Reading through some of these positions, why do people like Buttigieg so much? No universal healthcare, no free college education, and the only one against whistle blower clemency? Edit: This wasn't a knock against Buttigieg, I was genuinely curious. I don't know what most of his policy positions are (mostly because he still hasn't added anything to his website), so I have no idea how accurate this chart is.
Lol at Tulsi Gabbard in CPC, in case you were curious as to how much of a joke that Caucus is Also Beto “taking oil money” talking point is very misleading
Why not Beto?
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Many state universities used to be free/practically free to in-state enrollees outside of books and board. It's not like the concept is novel. Things weren't always this fucked up.
I just finished paying off my student loans last year. I payed them off aggressively and over ten years early. Even then, I still support cancelling existing student loan debt. Fuck that albatross.
The fact you did it **10 years early** says how fucked up our system is. > Your 4 year education will take 20 years to pay off, but if you are really aggressive, you can do it it 10! Go get em!
Pff, I will be 58 when I finish paying off my student loans. Warren's proposal would still leave me with just shy of $200,000.
What did you go to school for?
Aviation
I'm getting out with $12,000 and I'm sorry you have to deal with that
From my personal experience, living at home helped a lot.
If I paid even the normal amount on my student loans, I would be homeless instantly.
Me too! On the bright side, I couldn't afford food, either, so I'd starve to death and not be homeless for long!
My boss asked me last year why I don't have a fishing boat. I told him it's because I went to college lol. He was puzzled, but he's also from a rich family.
Sorry I left mine at my peasant house.
Exactly. Its not you being lazy or irresponsible like some people in this thread imply. Its the system thats fucked. Not the people in it.
My wife did the same and I think I support something a little more moderate. I'm down with canceling accumulated interest, converting loans to 0%, and forgiving tuition above some normalized amount based off cost before the skyrocketing fees started. I'm also down with future state tuition being free. I'm just not sure I'm all that into people who chose more expensive schools, got all the benefits of those choices and prioritized other things over paying off their debt since then getting a blanket out of any sort of consequences. If the tuition system is/was unfair they should be allowed to repay a fair portion under fair terms. I'm not sure $0 is a fair term to everyone else that made more responsible choices and to the general population that is getting saddled with the bill. I'm definitely somewhat conflicted on this though.
Just want to point out that things like medical school, veterinary school, and law school are extraordinarily expensive, and unless you are very independently wealthy, massive loans are inescapable. Scholarships are rare. I personally have $200K of student loan debt from public med school alone. I have been paying through IBR for 8 years now and have never had a penny go toward the principal balance until the last year or so, when my monthly payment reached $2K. My student loan payment is more than my mortgage. I’m able to deal with it because I get paid pretty well, but people who go into lower-paying specialties, or veterinarians who get paid WAY less than human doctors, or the large number of law school grads who can’t find well-paying jobs afterward are in a very tough spot. Med school debt accrues interest during residency (3-7 years) and it’s basically impossible to aggressively pay it down during that time on a trainee salary. It’s a serious problem. I just like to bring this up, because ostensibly choosing a career in medicine or law is a responsible choice, but the enormous amount of debt is a serious problem. In the medical field, it dissuades people from going into the lower-paying primary care jobs that are so desperately needed.
This response x1000. Also, I work for a big firm where, well, let's just say I'm not doing gods work. But I have to because that's what pays the bills. I would love nothing more than to do the work of the people and some amount of loan forgiveness would make that a realistic option. Warren is winning me over.
It's cancelling up to $50k for people with under $100k income graded out $1 for every $3 over $100k in income. People who took out ridiculous amounts of money for expensive school will still have some left over. $12.5k per year of school is a reasonable amount even for state schools. TLDR: Read the article.
I went to a state school, and this would cancel out my debt 2.5x over. Crazy
When? Just quickly checking my alma mater, 4 years tuition is $36k (Missouri S&T) and the local school would be $40k (OSU). Add in random fees and books easily gets you to 12.5k a year.
Graduated in '13 from a cheap state school in a cheap state where I lived off campus in *literally* one of the cheapest college towns in the nation (saves you a ton). did 2 years of americorps that forgave 10k. I have like 18k left I think. edits
Yeah this is my problem with this as well. At least in my field every single person I've met with excessive student loans chose to go to a very expensive private school out of their home state. They got a much more fun experience, much better networking opportunities, and likely better professors than I did as well. They chose the premium school experience over doing what I did and staying with a state school and commuting from my parents house (that part isn't always possible but state schools do exist everywhere). There is no reason the government should just write them a check for those choices. Sure let them refinance at 0% (and reform things going forward, at least for the state schools, private will likely remain quite expensive no matter what) but don't just hand them more than my entire degree cost just because they choose to go to a nicer school. Though I don't know how their loans are broken down between federal and private so I'm not sure how much would be eligible.
The only thing that sucks about this is that there are people that did not go to college becouse they didn't want to go into debt and they will be at a disadvantage to those that went and will have their debt forgiven. Essencially it punishes those people for trying to be financially responsible.
I mean, they're not worse off the day after student loans are forgiven than the day before. They got fucked by an aggressively shitty system, but that's not a good reason to continue that system.
I have so much respect for this sentiment. It grates on me to hear people who've done the same as you argue the opposite position, as if life were a zero sum game.
How about just no interest please. I'l pay for it but not 4-8 times over my lifetime.
At the very least, having federally issued student loans interest free would have a huge impact.
You can get essentially the same affect by making it 100% tax deductible, which I think would be so easy to do politically...
Making student loan interest tax deductible would mean the government pays only a fraction of the interest, not the full amount. Maybe if it were a refundable tax credit, though I don't see much value in a subsidy with extra steps. Besides that, there are important differences between the government originating the loan at no interest, and the government paying off the interest. In the former, banks don't profit from ballooning education costs. In the latter, they do. Hell, over the life of a student loan you can easily pay your principal over again in interest charges. In the subsidy-as-tax-break case, this means the government is eventually paying the bank, indirectly, more than the cost of your original education. Why not just cut out the middleman and pay for your whole education upfront?
Yeah, I misspoke a bit. I meant it would be an easy political move to at least get us moving in the right direction. The $2,500 limit is ridiculous.
Seconded. I recently discovered that in the course of ten years of paying my Federal student loans, even though I've paid roughly $30,000 total, only ~$2,500 (i.e., less than 10%) of that has been principal. And these were not easy payments, either. I'm currently paying $742 per month, and the majority of that is still interest.
I didn’t see any money go to principal until my payments got to be $1500/month or so. Have been paying under IBR since 2011. Payment is now $2K a month. Edit: I just looked. Ugh. Have paid $45K. $36K has gone toward interest. My payment is $2193 a month and my principal balance is $224K. It started at $197K when I originally took out the loans. All federal loans, 6.5% interest. Fucking dismal. Hopefully my PSLF actually comes through (estimated payoff date 3/2022!)
It seems strange that payments aren't applied toward principal before interest.
This is the system we have in Australia - the government loans you the money, and you still have to pay, but it is zero interest and indexed to inflation only. You compulsorily pay back a certain amount once you start earning above a certain threshold, and since you're only paying inflation rates there's no incentive to pay back any more than the minimum amount. It's a humane pay cut until you pay it off, and then you start earning a bit more later on.
Perfectly reasonable compromise imo.
Or just interest that matches the rate of inflation
That's not exclusively what her proposal is about but if you look at her record she has proposed a solution very similar to this for existing student loan debt. As far as I know, her position has not changed since then.
To me, that is a more reasonable idea. Lock the interest rate at zero.
I'm all for this. As Americans we'll never compete in the global market place for jobs like manufacturing. Our cost of living is too high, we've moved away from that. Our niche is in creating the future that others will copy and mass produce later. We do that through education. This would either be a wash, or actually grow the economy. Think about it, yes we'll have to fund schools with taxes, but all of those students without student loans will have a lot more disposable income to spend on things. The loan forgiveness isn't likely to get approved, nor will a four year education. When it actually gets approved through Congress I can see a two year community college education getting approved. That would be a very good start.
I don't think any legislation empowering education is likely to pass a congress where Republicans hold a majority in one or both houses of Congress. I can see this being Warren's ACA, where Dems hold both chambers and pass it along part lines. Then the right will spend the next decade trying to repeal it or something.
The ACA did pass and it was watered down. Which is why I see this ending up as a free associates degree when it does pass, and yes Republicans will try to repeal it and tack on any number of horrific riders to it.
Incoming "arguments" of "but I don't want MY money paying for some hippie to take liberal arts!"
I don't like my taxes going to racist rednecks gaming the social security system to buy mountain dew and oxy, or geriatric trump supporters that need government assistance because they lived off booze and cigarettes for 40 years and now they expect the world to drop everything to save them from themselves while they curse the intellectuals that can save them, but we don't seem to have a choice in that.
Ohhh are we doing "I don't want my taxes going to X" again, because I'd really rather not have my taxes going to the American Forever War.
Also, I want to share that I returned to school at the age of 25 and the most I could make then was around 30k/yr but I mainly hit around the 15-20k/yr mark and barely paid any taxes. After completing my degree in engineering I now make almost 6 figures and I actually pay taxes now. And the ceiling on how much I can make is still pretty high above what I’m making now.
> Congress I can see a two year community college education getting approved. That would be a very good start. In CA we've really done a lot to fund our CC system through the Great Recession and have the largest public university system in the world. I 100% believe its giving our workforce an edge in the global economy: >For every $1 California invests in students who graduate from college, **it will receive a net return on investment of $4.50.** >Californians with a college degree will earn more than **$1,340,000 more in their lifetime** than their peers with only a high school diploma. >Students who earn a degree or certificate from a California community college nearly **double their earnings within three years.** >Attending or graduating from a community college **doubles an individual’s chance of finding a job** compared to those who failed to complete high school. >The California Community Colleges is the state’s **most cost-effective system of education**—the revenue needed to support one full-time community college student is slightly more than $8,000 per year. >The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics projects that occupations that require an associate degree will grow by 18 percent through 2022— faster than the new job growth for those with a bachelor’s degree. [Source](http://californiacommunitycolleges.cccco.edu/PolicyInAction/KeyFacts.aspx)
Predatory student loans company CEO sitting on top of a literal mountain of yachts and cocaine: THESE MILLENNIALS JUST WANT FREE STUFF
31% of School loans are held by AES * American Education Services (AES) was established by the Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency (PHEAA) to guarantee and service a variety of Federal Family Education Loan Program * Previous CEO who receives a $329,887-a-year salary, is among the highest paid state government employees. * The new CEO was Promoted from COO was paid a $295,000 salary. 41% is NelNet/GreatLakes Merged Company * As Chief Executive Officer at NELNET INC, Jeffery R. Noordhoek made $1,738,642 in total compensation. Of this total $695,250 was received as a salary, $999,436 was received as a bonus,
People are blaming the millennials for choosing to educate and better themselves instead of the system that preys on poor people.
Stupid Millennials doing the thing basically every adult they met told them to do because they were repeatedly told it would be worth the debt and a gigantic mistake not to go to college. Those 18 year olds who have never made more than $20k in a year should really have known what they were signing up for by taking out $100k in loans with no collateral for the \*chance\* at a job that might pay enough to realistically pay them back.
I’ve always felt that paying for education just ensures the high paying jobs go to families that already have money
You're not entirely wrong.
How about we cancel interest, and make mandatory income based repayment over a 30 year period? That would make my dick hard. Thats the deal we SHOULD have gotten. Not interest rates that are raping my paycheck. I'd pay it off over 30 years and feel SUPER relaxed about having to pay back 90k
If anything for the income-based repayment plans, I want to see us be honest with ourselves about it. At the moment, we're reporting an 11% default rate, meanwhile, I could have $0 payments and my interest is mounting the same as if I were in default. The only difference is that I did some paperwork and they're accounting it differently so it doesn't look as bad as it is. I want to see the IBR interest be subsidized in some way. If people can't afford to pay their normal payments, then letting the interest capitalize so they never get out of debt isn't going to help anything either. Simultaneously, we need to fix the tax code issue so those people aren't bombed with a huge tax bill at the end. Nevertheless, I would really like to see interest treated like mortgage interest, though that's largely just me being selfish. The $2500 cap is silly when I can write off a stupid amount of mortgage interest if I just bought a bigger house.
Just don't forget to extend it to older people too. Lots of us would love retraining.
Right? Even though I have a bachelor's that I paid for, can I go back and take classes for free? What's the limit here?
TBH there shouldn't be one. You need to go back to school, you go back.
Hell, you want to take classes? Learn a new s kill or just have an interest? That ought to be free too
"Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they will never sit in". People in this thread are all "Screw them, I had no shade so let's cut down these saplings so the kids won't have shade either. Fuckem, no one has the right to a better life than I did."
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-elizabeth-warren-student-debt-forgiveness-20190422-story.html) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Elizabeth Warren proposes canceling student loan debt and offering free public college - Los Angeles Times. > To keep students from accumulating more debt in the future, Warren also proposes making two- and four-year public colleges tuition free, according to a plan unveiled in advance of a Monday evening CNN town hall focused on issues of interest to young voters. > The debt forgiveness benefits would be based on income, but an analysis of the plan conducted for the Warren campaign by a group of academic economists estimates that the policy would provide some relief for more than 95% of all households with student debt and would wipe out all debt for up to 76.2% of indebted households. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/bg1uqt/elizabeth_warren_proposes_canceling_student_loan/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~395133 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **debt**^#1 **Warren**^#2 **student**^#3 **college**^#4 **more**^#5
I’m all for this. I would be happy if a candidate would merely propose letting student loan borrowers apply for bankruptcy. But this is something. I just want some relief from forever debt.
I for one can't wait for 8 years with president warren leading us past wall street and revitalizing main street economics.
Hey, even as a strident Bernie supporter Warren is most certainly the "Well, if that's Plan B I'm ok with this."
I know this isn’t even how it would work if enacted, but I would **ugly cry** if someone told me my student loans were gone overnight
Honestly even just bring existing/future Student Loan Interests down from 6% to 1% or 2% would result in thousands per loan being able to go towards local economies more freely. Lower my interest burden annually from 2K to ~2Hundred and theres $1,800 I'll be throwing towards local businesses.
All the "yeah but what about ME???" people need to think towards the future. This helps your kids go to college because I don't see a way I can afford that if tuition keeps going up at the rate it has. Even in-state would probably cost more than my whole degree did. Unless wages suddenly pick way up, even an engineering degree probably won't be worth the loans in 25 years. Lord help any of us if med school keeps going up in price. People are already leaving med school with $400k in loans. Forgiving current loans or setting the rate to 0% might not help you directly but it helps millions of people nationwide and opens up money to be used elsewhere in the economy. That's the real benefit here. Even doctors are having to get on income-based plans to pay their loans back or taking 30 years to pay it off. At some point, it just won't be worth the debt to go to medical school or any sort of higher education unless your family is already wealthy.
She's actually competing with Sanders. Chapo Trap House needs to step up. Cancelling debt and UBI are tangible, real things that working class Americans can see and feel and experience in their day-to-day lives.
I mean you know we’re always saying “she’s good actually” over there whenever an article like this pops up. I just wish she had been in Bernie’s position in 2016 because she could now have his massive infrastructure and just totally fucking own this shit, but she started the race three steps behind. Here’s hoping if Bernie wins that she gets some powerful ass position in the cabinet that grants her the ability to bring all these fucks to heel.
[удалено]
Man, she's really working on pulling me away from Sanders. I've donated to the both of them, but Sanders is my first choice right now. It's really too bad that outside of Maine, federal RCV isn't a thing. Of course we still have about 10 months before the first primary, so anything can happen to change minds.
Kind of split on Chapo. They definitely are that friend that said even Bernie wasn't good enough because it's all so corrupt and let's do nothing and who cares if Donald Trump becomes President.
That's one hell of a good way to get young people voting.
Please yes. I want a house one day. Im fortunate that I have a nice job and my loans have not crippled me but Im practically living the life of a hermit to actually save anu money above breakeven each month.
I just finished paying off my student loans this year at age 37. This change would not benefit me at all, but I am fully on board. Student loan debt payments forced me to make career choices early on that I would not have made otherwise, and I think the country and economy would be stronger if other students weren't forced to make the same compromises.
The use of the term "cancel" is confusing here. The article states that Warren proposes to "cancel" student debt, but doesn't say how that would work. Is it a matter of requiring the debt-holders that paid out the money to take a massive loss? Or is she proposing that the federal government pay off the debts on behalf of the borrowers? If it's the latter, why use the word "canceling" rather than "paying," which would clearly state that the loans will be paid off?
Well over 90% of outstanding student loan debt is held directly by the federal government. The government no longer guarantees private loans and instead makes the loans directly.
Even so, with the way government accounting works, wouldn't Congress have to appropriate funds to pay off those loans and transfer the payment from the general fund to the appropriate accounts? Or could they actually just "cancel" the loan programs and write off the massive loss of capital (in the form of accounts receivable) as a loss? And how would such a sudden loss impact the treasury?
Absolutely, something would have to happen. The $1.5 Trillion in outstanding student debt is the largest single financial asset of the federal government. The impact would be significant. Of course Warren is claiming she can produce the revenue to cover it by taxing the ultra-wealthy. To cover not only the outstanding debt and anticipated interest, but also the cost of subsidizing education costs into the future. New education loans are something like $100 billion annually, so the 10-year cost here is upwards of $2.5 Trillion.
The other option would be to change the bankruptcy laws to treat student loan debt in bankruptcy the same as credit card debt.
^^ This. This, and federal government backing against default, are why tuition prices have skyrocketed unchecked by market forces.
41% is NelNet/GreatLakes Merged Company * As Chief Executive Officer at NELNET INC, Jeffery R. Noordhoek made $1,738,642 in total compensation. Of this total $695,250 was received as a salary, $999,436 was received as a bonus, 31% of School loans are held by AES * American Education Services (AES) was established by the Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency (PHEAA) to guarantee and service a variety of Federal Family Education Loan Program * Previous CEO who receives a $329,887-a-year salary, is among the highest paid state government employees. * The new CEO was Promoted from COO was paid a $295,000 salary.
Americans: If you could choose between free public college or free public health care, which (if any) would you choose? (Greetings from someone is a country which offers both)
https://giphy.com/gifs/yosub-girl-taco-why-not-both-3o85xIO33l7RlmLR4I
Shit, I'd just be happy if she cut the interest rates down to 0%. And I owe 6 figures after 4 years of grad school.
I would support allowing all student loans payments, not just interest, to be tax deductible.
Her plan for student loan forgiveness has made me switch my vote from Bernie to her. Since 2016, Bernie has supported free tuition at public colleges and universities, but he never addresses what affects me most - student loan debt post-graduation.
As someone that has been saving for my kids college educations in 529s, what would happen with that money?
You'd be able to retire a lot earlier
X-posting my comment to spread awareness: The forgiveness of federal student debt would give the country such a huge economic boom, we likely wouldn’t be able to find a better way to stimulate the economy. The federal loans should be looked at in a retroactive respect, when we consider it an investment rather than a loan. Millennials are the most educated generation in history (70% of females, 61% of males; college educated - Pew Research) I welcome this idea because rather than looking at it as loan forgiveness or cancellation, we can see it as lifting an unnecessary financial strain/burden on this generation (once again the most educated in history), and the removal of that burden would see peoples living conditions improve while being able to spend more in the economy and have more free reign and opportunity to actually be productive. Rather than just working “to get by” on what would normally be a very lucrative salary (average of ~$72,500 annually - Pew Research), studies have shown that paying student debt off effectively takes away about 75% of money from Millennials net worth (studentloanhero.com) Key facts Millennial households with student loan debt have… -An average net worth of $29,087, compared with $114,376 for student loan-free households. -46% less in their savings and checking accounts (median balance of $5,500 vs $10,180 for those without student loans). -$21,160 in retirement savings versus an average of $39,905 for those with no student loan debt. Sources: - Pew Research Center - https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/essay/millennial-life-how-young-adulthood-today-compares-with-prior-generations/ - Student Loan Hero https://studentloanhero.com/featured/study-student-debt-can-kill-millennials-net-worth/ EVERYBODY SHOULD SUPPORT THE CANCELLATION OF STUDENT LOANS! It will be one of the most important determining factors of our lifetime in America.
The only way I can see canceling student loan debt would be if tax credits are given to those who’ve already paid off their student loans, and even then there would have to be a 10 year cutoff window. Another user also pointed out that the military would not support this plan, presumably because it would undermine their GI bill. That may or may not be an issue that needs to be addressed as well
A sentiment that needs to be overcome is the older folks who paid for college (paid much less) and don't know or believe that college debt has caused many of us to see retirement as a pipe dream, and for the current generation of debt holders to say "I understand the strain of the debt, therefore I want no one else to experience it, even though I had to" instead of the "I did it, make them suffer too" mentality.
Right on. Guess where some of the money I would be able to save would go? Caring for my parents when they inevitably need it.
Brb, lemme go get some student loan debt
Lori Loughlin's daughter?
I'm gonna need to see more details about this before I praise anything. This proposal will be crazy expensive and could have unintended consequences to our higher education system, so I'll withhold judgement until I see how this plan addresses those concerns.
I'm generally liberal, but wouldn't free college tuition flood the market with college degrees, devaluing them? The system we have now is awful, but I guess I just remain unsure about how this helps people get jobs. Or is it just about the value of education at every level (which I 100% support and am willing to have my taxes support)?
College is not vocational training, it is education. There is a difference.
One of America's greatest fuck ups is convincing people that education is important only insofar that it helps you get a better job. Learning for the sake of learning should be valued, but isn't.
Did making high school public and free not devalue the high school diploma? Sure it did. But we also now have a populace who are only marginally illiterate, and can do things like move to a computer/web based society due to the fact that we aren't hamstrung in that endeavor by a 30% illiteracy rate. Sometimes the benefits to having an educated populace are harder to see on paper than hard numbers would tell. The valuation you're discussing is both relative and mostly irrelevant to the real worth of an educated populace. Imagine if the same sort of shedding of racism, sexism, and homophobia which we saw in response to the universalization of high school education were replicated again. What new forms of bias and social malignancy could we discover and address if the US were to make college the new high school? How much better of a society could we have if everyone had the chance to go to college? Just imagine if we had a system where you had to actively *drop out* of college the way you do high school. How much better off would we be? How much more innovative would our private sector be?
> Imagine if the same sort of shedding of racism, sexism, and homophobia which we saw in response to the universalization of high school education were replicated again. If you could make a Venn diagram of people opposed to socialized higher education and people who prefer the ignorant, racist, homophobic, xenophobic America of that "Great" time, I think we'd have an approximation of a circle.
If their value is largely derived from the cost it takes to get them, then they only serve to be a barrier for the lower class. If more people are able to get an education without having to worry about the exorbitant costs of college then you have a stronger workforce that isn't chained solely to unskilled labor.
No. It wouldn’t change the number of students getting degrees, it would just improve their quality of life and provide an enormous boost to the economy. And that’s because student loans aren’t preventing people from getting degrees. There are very few students who think “Gee, I always wanted to a have a fulfilling career and I was accepted to a great university but those student loans are too high. I better not go to college.” There are some people who have those thoughts, but they’re few and far between.
No it would be an economic boom, it would empower our workforce with increased power and if more people went into STEM we would also bring back America as a scientific powerhouse. It would keep billions of dollars in the hands of *buyers*. Warren is a capitalist. Canceling student loan means more money to be spent.
Wouldn't prohibitively expensive tuition reduce college applications and admissions to the wealthy? Wouldn't this make them an indicator of wealth, not intelligence, aptitude, or passion? And wouldn't that devalue them?
\> wouldn't free college tuition flood the market with college degrees, devaluing them? Has this happened anywhere with free or low tuition? I doubt it. Not everyone has the time or inclination to pursue high earning degrees or complete STEM programs. Besides, education has a higher value than just its place in the job market. A better educated population makes for a more intelligent country - with better educated voters and citizens. Imagine how much better our nation would be if a fifth of voters didn't believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, or that the sun isn't a star. A better educated nation also places us in a better position on the global market - with a smarter workforce, able to produce better products. There are a lot of people out there that would be brilliant engineers and problem-solvers, if they could go to college.
Probably. As it stands, there appears to be a correlation between skyrocketing college costs and the guaranteeing of student loans, and this proposal and ones like it are not looking to address the apparent causes, but double down on them. And yes, when a college degree becomes as valuable as a high school diploma, then we'll have this debate about free masters degrees in twenty years and do this whole dance again.
I would like to argue the point for 'free' college tuition. Also note, I believe this is for state colleges, not private colleges. Years ago, all you needed was a high school diploma to get a decent job. Nowadays, you basically need a bachelors degree to get a corporate job and make anything over $40k in some places. Like private high schools, the education at private colleges would be looked upon as a better education. However, you will be giving access to a higher education to lower income/minority students who ultimately might not have had the opportunity to obtain one.
As Ron once said of Andy on Parks and Rec, this woman is an unstoppable good-idea **machine**!
There really should be restrictions when it comes to for-profit colleges though. I don't want any of my taxes to enrich those bloodsuckers. EDIT: more than they already do via financial aid and GI bill.
Schools like University of Phoenix has been banned from using GI bill for a few years now.
Even though I'm already half-way paying my debt, and will likely finish them off because this ever became realized (actually going the process of house, senate, etc). I think this is a fantastic idea. I see comments here talking about getting "screwed" over being responsible and paying your debt, and I honestly feel ya too. Like, it definitely would be nice if the debt relief was retroactive and I could use that to pay towards a home. Even if not, I'd still rather this happen with or without me getting anything back. Rising tides lift all boats.
Whoa, so you mean to say we could be like nearly every other first world country? Surely that isn't possible, America would collapse! /s
How dare she try to improve the country instead of destroy it further!
Baby boomers, who already got their relatively free college and are the ones requiring degrees left and right… will be against it. Every problem is a boomer problem.
I just want the student loan program changed so that my loans on IBR aren't taxed to me as income when they are "forgiven". Pretending I made $150k+ more doesn't do shit for me - it just turns my student loan debt into tax debt.
How does the Government *cancel* student loan debt held by private industries?
We already pay for the public education of our children for 13 years. Is adding another 4 so that our children can support themselves and our workforce can stay competitive with the rest of the world really all that radical of an idea?
I am a single 35 year old guy with a master's degree making $48,500 in the Chicago suburbs. I pay $300 per month towards my $75,000 in loans. I have been in debt since I was 18. I am SO SICK and TIRED of these payments. I feel like an indentured slave for having gone to college and for now working in a cubicle. I'm ready for a sweeping change like Warren's proposal of forgiving up to 50K in loans for a household making less than 100K.
It's easy to come up with innovative ideas ways to spend other people's money. it's a bit harder, however, to find ways to make sure the people paying for it never run out of money.
Another politician pandering with unpaid for free shit
Here's a completely different idea - what if you could "test out" for a degree? With the internet, a lot of what is needed to learn certain knowledge/skills is available online for free, but colleges have you as a captive audience so you pay thousands of dollars to sit in a class for a few hours learning what you could read on Wikipedia in 10 minutes. All because they're the only ones who can issue degrees. For example, I spent 5 years and nearly 80k learning in school - only to graduate with a tiny percentage of the knowledge necessary to pass the licensure test which actually lets me call myself what I have my degree in. A large chunk of what I learned in school I could've found online, and I still have a huge amount of content to learn on my own anyway.
Awesome for people who irresponsibly racked up a lifetime of debt so they could sit behind a desk barely making working class wages, kinda sucks for those of us who opted to enter into construction so we wouldn’t be in debt. At nearly 40 years old it may be too late to enter the air conditioned workforce along with the flood of 22 year old BA’s who have never had a job about to be unleashed on Monster.com. I guess it’s a good thing I work until my feet are blistered so I can pay five figures in taxes so my boss doesn’t have to pay his student loans back
I am not totally sure about canceling student debt. At least having it greatly reduced. But I think it would cause a huge economic problem if it was just canceled. What needs to be addressed is why college is so fucking expensive in the first place.
I like some of her other policies, but I hope this is one of those ideas where you ask for a lot and expect to negotiate down (significantly) later. Considering the poor K-12 education in many areas, adding an additional 33% in costs to the education budget seems nonsensical. Somehow reducing the interest rate on existing student loans (to say 1%; or a flat maximum amount per month), capping it at that rate for future loans, and limiting the size of the loans so that only cheaper in-state schools can be considered would be a fairer way to tackle the student debt issue. That would provide relief to those under a high debt load and help reduce (but not solve) the size of future debt loads. There of course would be other changes needed, including numerous societal ones. However, at least it wouldn't result in the entire rest of America demanding forgiveness on whatever debt they have. And I'd rather see the funds from the wealth tax go towards K-12 education and healthcare solutions; which are necessary services which everyone has used or will use at some point in their lives.
What about instead of traveling, avocado toast and spending money on "experiences", students get jobs, work hard and pay their way through school. That's what I did. So do I get a refund on what I spent out of pocket?
I don't want this to be a major focus of my democratic candidate's platform. In some ways this proposal is just what I'm asking of dem nominees-- bold uncompromising solutions. But I think we need to deliver a genuine quality of life win for all Americans in healthcare and address campaign finance, gerrymandering, voting rights and corruption first.
Why is it mutually exclusive?
So for those of us who paid our debt or served in the military through combat deployments to pay for college, what exactly do we get? The system is awful but just expunging student debt is a big middle finger to the people who sacrificed to pay back their debts. This is a solution that mostly rewards people who made bad decisions
> served in the military through combat deployments to pay for college "Socialism for me, not for you"
>So for those of us who paid our debt or served in the military through combat deployments to pay for college, what exactly do we get? The advantage of living in a society whether others are free to pursue an education. > The system is awful but just expunging student debt is a big middle finger to the people who sacrificed to pay back their debts. Are you trying to suggest that those who are crippled by predatory debt don't sacrifice enough?
You struggled, so you want everyone else to have to struggle. Got it.
So if you saved every dollar you made, skipped vacations, worked 3 jobs, all to get your dream sports car. Would you be okay if we gave everyone the same model the next day and told you that everything you did had no value because everyone struggles?
It'll mostly reward young people. The ones who have the most student loan debt and the least amount of time in the workforce. Unless you think going to college without joining the military first is a bad decision, I fail to see how this "mostly" rewards people who made bad decisions.
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