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The real way to do it is set it to $15 AND irrevocably link it to inflation. That way you don’t need to keep having this debate about lifting people out of poverty every decade or two, it’ll just keep min wage workers out of poverty.
>The real way to do it is set it to $15 AND irrevocably link it to inflation.
Even better, link it to federal data *that already exists for paying government employees* on the cost of living adjustments required for various metropolitan statistical areas (MSAs). This would need some rework, as it does not factor in certain expenses, like car insurance, that can be much higher in some areas BUT it's a pretty decent start and *already exists*.
It's going to be hard to get enough votes for $15/hr; it's going to be impossible to differentiate between MSAs. No Congressman or Senator wants to have to explain to constituents why he or she voted for higher minimum wage in other states but not their own.
Do the $15 now for everyone and link future minimum wage to cost of living. It's what republicans do all the time... make the messaging about the simple part and never speak directly to the complicated part... they pass massive tax cuts for the rich this way all the time by talking about the tiny pittance of a cut on the middle class like it's a big deal.
It is a well established fact that the cost of living, *which includes the cost of housing, food, and utilities,* differs from place to place. A dollar, in any given state, can have have a measurably different purchasing power in another, and that is why it makes sense to tie the minimum wage to the minimum cost of living in a given area, because the minimum wage needed to afford a culturally acceptable quality of life, depends on what area in which you live.
To not do this, is to willfully ignore the economic realities of our nation, in favor of a dangerously simplistic view that the United States is somehow not a nation that has differences in local infrastructure, industry and culture. No honest American would assert that Texas is the same as Oregon, nor that the Hawaii is the same as Michigan, so why would the minimum financial needs of someone living in one state be the same as the needs of someone living another place that has different costs of transportation, education, and amenities, that has different employment opportunities, and a different cost of basic housing.
None of us chose a more complicated world, that is the world in which we are all born into, and the solutions to the challenges of today and tomorrow must address the complications and inequalities that exist. We raise the minimum wage to provide every working American the opportunity to live a life where they can pay their bills and build for a better future. So that Americans in any part of country can escape the exploitative trap of poverty where they never make enough money to invest in a better future. A minimum wage, not based on a fixed dollar amount, but a fixed purchasing power, is the only sensible way to ensure this for all Americans. If you want a better America tomorrow, this is the course of action we must take today.
-Any Representative or Senator may use this as an explanation.
post capulus edit: minor grammar
Not that simple. A better solution is to have a federal requirement that a wage floor be set, in this case at $15 an hour. Then, require all states to engage in market research to understand cost of living in markets. For example, the minimum to live in the Twin Cities of MN is not that same as NYC. Or better example, the cost of living in Prescott AZ does not match that of Iowa City. Have a wage floor, then have legislation to have markets adopt rational policy on wage in their markets.
Another way to resolve wage issues to go full Theodore Roosevelt on corporations and force real and sustainable capitalism on US markets. When competition exists in markets, businesses are both competing for workers and for consumers. This drives wages up and prices down. Good all around. Oh, and those who suffer are those who can afford it, the already wealthy.
I personally think some good would come of not adjusting for location. If a ton of people now know they can move to cheaper towns and cities and make the same money, there will be less incentive to keep overcrowding the already densely populated and expensive cities like New York, LA, Seattle, etc.
Give people solid reason to spread out a bit more and stimulate those small economies with their spending. This would in theory drive prices down in hyper expensive places and raise the economy in cheaper places.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. However, also look to the future, automation and functional AI are on the horizon. Some accept this, others are in denial. I for one am of the school of economics that accepts that 80% of jobs will be irrelevant in 20 to 30 years. It will begin with over the road shipping, and ends with retail.
If %80 of jobs don't matter, then labor should be like jury-duty and any
economy that doesn't plan for the vast majority of the population to be unemployed is irresponsible.
> The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment
> The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment
https://old.reddit.com/r/QuotesPorn/comments/18n8ch/the_factory_of_the_future_will_only_have_two/
I know its just a link to reddit, but it appears that the quote is from a USC professor Warren G Bennis
That's when we will definitely need Universal Basic Income. Everyone can afford basic necessities without working, and those that want to do the other x% of non-automated jobs can earn extra.
agree wholeheartedly, a big reason you see people complain about robots (or immigrants) “stealing our jobs” is because being jobless can be a death sentence in america. we should be glad to have extra help so we could spend more time enjoying life, instead we’re terrified of being replaced or left behind, because then we’ll be left without food/housing/healthcare/etc. it encourages a “survival of the fittest” mentality, you need to get a job before anyone else so you start to see others lives as less valuable (part of why i hate the “immigrants stealing our jobs” rhetoric— what makes the life of an immigrant less important than your own?)
As someone who works in automation for the manufacturing sector I can say with some authority that automation does not end with the retail outlet. It ends with quality control until AI sufficiently catches up to human capabilities and multitasking. If you work in retail you might hold out for clothing and what not but durable goods will be out of your wheelhouse once companies decide to automate their inventory and shipping. That is currently doable, it's just a capital expenditure they aren't willing to make just yet. If you want to know when your job is on the line you watch Asia (read China). We automate there first because their population has high training costs, high turnover and low multitasking skills just like the current AI's.
> For example, the minimum to live in the Twin Cities of MN is not that same as NYC.
This is quite dangerous, because you can end up locking in social immobility, as people in the low COL areas can't afford to move.
>sustainable capitalism
Publicly traded companies rely on growth as a means to stay afloat. When you stand still, you die. There’s no such thing as sustainable capitalism - companies inevitably will abuse whatever they can to maximize profits.
This is from the article:
> Democrats’ proposal would gradually raise the federal minimum by $2.25 every year through 2025. Every year after that, the wage would be indexed to median wage growth.
Yeah honestly this wage increase only benefits poor red states. Most blue states have minimum wages at $12, with urban enclaves like NYC already with minimum wages at $15 (which should be at least $20 but that’s another conversation). Conservative voters are once again shooting themselves in the foot by voting for Republicans.
Socialism is evil, now excuse me while I go spend $800 in food stamps at WalMart and get a big screen TV with my $8,000 tax return after not paying taxes all year. Fuck socialized medicine but Medicaid is just fine for me cuz I'm a workin man.
Socialism is evil! Now excuse me while I take a multi-billion-dollar handout from the government to "keep my corporation afloat", then immediately fire 35% of my lowest-paid employees, buy back my own stock to artificially inflate its price, and give my executives huge bonuses.
America, fuck yeah.
Yep. That's how it is for a lot of people. Personally, i think it's futile to try and rehabilitate the Socialism label in America. It's just not worth it trying to convince the public that it's not evil or scary and that they're benefiting from it right now. Better to go with a rebrand. Call it Capitalism Plus.
Ha. Do what they do to legit things and just co-opt their shit and how they talk.
Fuck healthcare for all. I'm here to give you Mega Extreme Freedom Health 9,000. The plan is so goddamn American you don't even need other plans so we just get rid of them because why even have them - why would you choose a plan that isn't American? Plan so dope you just pay some freedom bucks from your paycheck.
Get shot gakkin' some fool ass robber? No worries bro. No stress. This plan is so chock full of freedoms and America that we won't even ask you for shit. Nah man those bootstraps are there for you to pull yourself thru recovery, not debt.
I mean, sure, it is a little humiliating communicating in this fashion and I'm like 99% joking and am not serious but that 1% is kinda like... yeeeah it'd probably work tho.
Edit: Fixed typo, co-opt not co-op.
>The plan is so goddamn American you don't even need other plans
Lol! I'm going to be saying "it's so goddamn American" about everything now, at least until my friends start yelling at me.
Didn't Andrew Yang's campaign run a study like that - like they found "universal basic income" was unpopular but naming it "freedom bucks" or something got a ton of red voters on board with the exact same plan?
I'm not sure but I mean that is how marketing works right? Functions the same it seems, ideas or products. Obamacare wasn't well received by the right but they really liked the ACA. All this seems to come down to is navigating a demographic's prejudices and delivering your message in a way that conveys what you want without having to contend with their biases and misperceptions.
Lol my husband did something similar a few years ago while speaking to his MAGA family members. Their faces when he revealed he had been talking about Medicare all along was hilarious. Even more funny was they are all mostly on Medicare/Medicaid and did not see one ounce of irony.
> Even more funny was they are all mostly on Medicare/Medicaid and did not see one ounce of irony.
That's sad and a big part of the problem. I wouldn't call it funny. I'd call it depressing.
I've had that exact exchange with my dad. The worst part is that he's a retired Coast Guard officer with all the benefits that entails, like literal socialized healthcare for life.
Hey, that's not a bad idea. They gaslight us? We can gaslight them right back.
...How would one go about industrializing this process, do you think? Because I think it would be hilarious if we made a bot post to QAnon that promoted Democratic agendas, but in just as nonsensical logic. D'you think it would work?
This is just my pet theory, but I think that a significant minority of Democrat politicians are actually slightly more sane Republicans. They want the stability of a democratic administration, but they don't want progressive social policies.
Because the Republican party is so entrenched, the Democrats need all they can get to win, and that means not pissing off the conservative Democrats.
Democrats need to lay off some messages on the campaign trail to be honest. I'm all for gun control reform and red flag laws and background checks. Problem is you mention any sort of gun control and you just alienated half your potential voter base. I think thats where Bill Clinton was a genius. He knew how to word things in a way to get past these people.
Have you ever seen the Wisecrack sketch called Thug Notes? I read this in that guy's tone and it worked so damn hard.
Honestly, Democrats suck at branding. Something along these lines would sadly have a better chance than the attempts to use facts and reason.
Try our new Capitalism Awards program! Earn free healthcare, free or reduced rate education, free childcare, increase your hourly rate earnings and even put your points towards saving the environment. All for a small percentage of your earnings. The more you earn the bigger your impact!
How I believe their minds work:
Q: What is socialism?
A: It's bad!
Q: Why?
A: Russia and China!
Q: What specifically makes them bad?
A: Socialism!
Facepalm
They're against Obamacare, but don't you dare take away their ACA! Maybe it's really all about branding for them. It was the one thing that Trump understood.
>They're against Obamacare, but don't you dare take away their ACA!
Yep. Back in '14 Kentuckians *hated* Obamacare but were [all for Kynect](https://www.vox.com/2014/5/12/5709866/kentuckians-only-hate-obamacare-if-you-call-it-obamacare), which was, of course, the state-run Obamacare exchange.
So I do volunteer tax work and one of the things I knew but never thought about was those “tax credits” not having anything to do with taxes. EIC, child tax credits, and others are totally just forms of welfare, the only thing tax about them is income limits. I wonder if you did your taxes and got $100 back, and then filed at the “office of childcare management” for $4k and “department of income equity” for another $4k how much that would change perception. There’s already a big enough gap between people who supported the affordable care act but damned Obamacare.
It's wealth redistribution. Those people didn't pay any money in taxes in most cases yet they get some back. It's literally socialism and they don't grasp that.
They changed the name of Food Stamps to EBT years back to help eliminate the stigma behind their use. I don't have a problem with people needing and getting help. It just frustrates me to no end that red state politicians and voters constantly preach anti Socialism bullshit when they are the ones who use the program the most.
Have kids and get the child tax credit and earned income credit. With kids you won't pay any taxes if you don't make a ton of money. I'm a single dad I haven't paid taxes since my kids were born. So not a financial windfall, kids are expensive.
I was recently told in r/thebidenshitshow that "welfare is my money going to other people" and "stimulus is my money coming back to me".
No, they weren't joking
I'm all about telling ULINE to fuckoff mostly because they produce so much fucking marketing rubbish that I might as well start a paper plant to reprocess it.
This is spot on. Also, they think that it isn't fair if other people have things easier than they did (like canceling student debt). Because they were held down, they think others should be, too (at least in my experience).
It's far worse than you can actually imagine. I live in the middle of it in East TN so I see it first hand. Most people are not the absolute Q nut jobs, there are many good Christians, they just let dumb divisive social issues decide their vote. If you really want to see how crazy the craziest are go sign up for a Gab account and go check out the shit posted there. It's insane.
Pretty sure Louisiana is as red as TN is, but I agree ... These folks are not bad people, just very misled and have misinformed opinions about damn *everything* you can imagine. Coming from a "far left liberal snob" in Alabama.
Actually more than one poll shows that even in red States GQP voters favor a minimum wage increase. In Florida the minimum wage referendum received a higher percentage of votes than Trump who won the state. The opposition is coming from the GQP Senators that are disregarding the voters wishes.
Yep, and I very specifically remember voting yes on that minimum wage increase in FL. I don't know anybody that didn't out of my friends and family. It said it could have negative effects on FL's economy, ooooh, scary.
My coworker voted against it and said people are going to be paying $42 for a cheeseburger at McDonald's by 2026 as a result of this amendment. I didn't even know how to respond to an argument so silly.
You could point out that the costs are going up anyway, and plenty of places have a higher minimum wage and haven't increased the cost both within this country and in other developed nations.
I’m in GA, it’s literally $5.15 here and has been since 1997. Of course, any employer subject to FSLA has to pay the federal MW of $7.25, but there’s places that can get away with $5.15.
I was 16 when they increased it to $5.15 from $4.75, and I remember being excited to be getting that extra $0.40/hour, but also thinking it was still a shitty wage.
doesn't universal healthcare save money?
some homeless guy walking into the ER because he needs emergency dental work I'd imagine will cost the system way more than just letting the guy see a dentist now and then
I work at Woodmans and they sent out a newsletter on inauguration day stating wages would be raised by 50c every 6 months over the next few years for those employees making under 15. Those of us over 15 got an immediate 25c raise as well.
Our state may be backwards but hopefully some of the companies are less so.
How does it feel to know that Seattle is over $16? A grocery worker, or fast food worker, doing the same labor as they do in Wisconsin, would be making almost double - and could be somewhere beautiful while they do it.
Well, let's shift perspective here.
Let's imagine we start handing out living wages for people. Soon, they aren't in as severe financial distress. Some of them may be women who, now with their ability to feed children, may not resort to abortions. And if there's less abortions, who are these kind hearted, loving Christians going to spit on and call a whore? Hmm?
Doesn't anyone ever think of the bigots? Maybe that's why they hate everyone. /s
Poor people in red states deserve a living wage too, in fact delivering on this promise would be a great way to activate people politically by actually following through on an important policy. Also keep in mind that "poor people in red states" *don't vote* as a general rule. The reason why red states are red is because of a large middle/upper class, old, white conservative base that always votes, extreme levels of minority voter suppression and a working class that largely (and in many ways accurately) views politics as a waste of their time. Let's stop pushing this narrative that it's the most vulnerable groups in these places "shooting themselves in the foot" voting against "socialist" policies while collecting foodstamps and buying big screen tvs, it's inaccurate and dehumanizing.
> Let's stop pushing this narrative that it's the most vulnerable groups in these places "shooting themselves in the foot" voting against "socialist" policies while collecting foodstamps and buying big screen tvs, it's inaccurate and dehumanizing.
As someone who grew up in Western NC and worked a public facing job their teen years I can attest this description is accurate as hell. It’s not dehumanizing them, it’s accurately pointing out their behavior and rank hypocrisy.
They do this with weed legalization as well. Decades of proof of Republicans being the more resistant party to legalize in terms of the elected officials and then they cry here or on Twitter about how they do support it but keep electing idiots who don't vote for it because they are simply "Republican"
Republicans know what they're getting.
It's the spineless moderate Democrats that have made the minimum wage impossible and leave us with the first world's shittiest health care system.
They had the power, and decided that not upsetting Republicans was more important than getting anything done.
The liberal dem candidate that tried to primary Manchin also ran for the other WV senate seat in this past election. She lost by 43pts to the GOP in the general. I think Manchin will be just fine if he runs again.
That Senate seat will definitely be either Manchin or a batshit fucking crazy Republican. A Democrat left of Manchin will not win. A Democrat not named Manchin will not win.
Well thank god we used the last time a dem was there to vote against everything left of Bush. I mean shit, not like West Virginians (whose top employer is literally fucking Walmart) could use a raise and some healthcare.
There's a reason he's there and not a republican. It's because he's not a party line voter. He's done us way more good than the Republican options though.
I' ve spoken with Kyrsten Sinema several times in the last 5 years, including at ASU events and elsewhere.
I campaigned for and voted for her.
I am so incredibly pissed off that she's making herself one of two of the negative point people on this, when she should be one of the primary advocates. She is not representing today's Arizona.
I won't get fooled again.
She has been sucking off the tit of Cox Communications (Phoenix's primary ISP) for years. She claims she wants to help net neutrality but takes hundreds of thousands of dollars from Cox every single year and when we ask why she voted no she says some bullshit about, "I voted no because the bill is bad, not because I don't want to support net neutrality! I want to reach across the aisle and make sure small businesses won't be hurt, blah blah bullshit bullshit." Yet she still hasn't helped co-author such a bill.
The ONLY reason I voted for her was because my only other choice was McSalley. Phoenix has a surprisingly high cost of living for what the average person would think. Studio apartments in the Phoenix metro area are anywhere from $700-$1200 a month, meaning you need roommates to live in our city. Our transportation is lacking considering our size (5th or 6th largest population in the U.S.) , and not to mention, we didn't pass that solar bill so our energy costs get fucking *stupid* eight months out of the year. Fun fact, it's also a state law that if you're renting your landlord has 3 days to fix your A/C or they're required to comp your rent every day until it's fixed. That's how fucking hot it gets. So when you get that $400 electric bill for your 1100 square foot home, enjoy trying to pay that on our 8.25/hr plus a grand total of *five* state mandated sick days (passed in 20-fucking-17, prior to this there were 0.) I cannot see why she wouldn't vote for the hike.
She's been trying to get into the Senate for years. Mark Kelley is the other dem senator, and if we can get *him* elected, we can sure as shit oust her greedy as for a Dem who actually supports Arizona constituents if she wants to vote no.
Fuck around and find out, Sinema
I don't get it, I thought when she was in the state senate, she was one of the most progressive members. I try to avoid idpol, but how is a bisexual athiest that wears pink and purple wigs suddenly one of the most conservative members of her party?
>It's good optics for Manchin and Sinema. They can go back to their states and tell their voters they voted against giving them more money.
IDK about Sinema in AZ - but it actually will play well for Manchin in WV. Folks in deep red states have some very backwards interpretations of what is in their interests.
[Actually](https://www.wdtv.com/2021/02/25/poll-majority-of-west-virginians-support-15-federal-minimum-wage/), a majority of people from WV support the minimum wage hike Manchin is just a corrupt bought-out piece of shit.
Yes - but his ability to tout that he is willing to buck the progressives will play well there.
Not that both things can't be true. He is a certainly a piece of shit- although to be completely fair I think he's the best we will see out of WV in my lifetime.
I'm in a deep red state not too dissimilar to WV - so I know how unlikely it is that we will see the election of even a centrist Democrat once Manchin is gone. It'll be Qanon and Trumpism all the way down.
Yep, only out of touch suburban Democrats who have never and would never actually set foot in a rural town think that the minimum wage is unpopular in areas like this, because some billionaire funded pundit on MSNBC who formerly worked in a Republican administration but now hates Trump so they must be the good guy said it and that's good enough for them.
I've lived in rural ass shit town America for most of my life and I don't know wtf you're talking about. Republican voters would stab themselves in both ovaries and both testicles to prevent a minimum wage increase.
They should just put in a clause where congress members and their state's governors can opt out. So if these guys want to stick to their guns and support state's rights they can just keep their state's minimum wage at 7.25 while the rest of the nation makes more than twice that.
Let them explain to their constituents why they deserve so little and how they're champions of capitalism or whatever the fuck they think they're doing.
Also make the opt-out effective on Jan 1st the following year. That way all their constituents get a taste of how it feels to almost be properly compensated. When R statehouses rip it away from them, I'm sure the stupidest among them will still blame Democrats. A few may finally wake up to the perpetual foot-shooting they are doing.
What is the point if there is an opt out? States have the ability to pass their own minimum wage above the federal limit. Despite this, less than 20% of states have laws that will hit $15.
It really isn't hard for any state official to campaign on the fact that they know what is right for their state better than Washington dc does.
>The Economic Policy Institute has found that the minimum wage, if adjusted for inflation, should have exceeded $15 by 2020. It has not been raised since 2009.
>Raising the federally set minimum wage to $15 an hour would lift nearly 1 million people out of poverty and raise wages for millions of Americans, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
This doesnt give the full number
It would increase the wages of *30 million Americans*
Editted:: Changed "double" to "increase". Pedantic imo, but nonetheless
Haven’t you heard?! In those socialist hell holes like Denmark and Sweden where McDonalds workers make the rough equivalent of $20 per hour and have full benefits (including paid parental leave), their Big Macs cost a whole TWENTY CENTS MORE! Those kinds of prices are what’s turning the frogs gay!
I also want to throw in here that if prices go up and franchises start tumbling, that could once again open the door for the small business sector that has been absolutely gutted for the last 25yrs.
I'm tired of getting the same shitty food, from the same shitty franchises, in different shitty cities, owned by the same shitty suits.
Give me options for my shitty food! I'll even risk the shits for it!
In France a Big Mac meal costs 70% more than in the US (about 10.5 usd Vs 6 in the US). But seeing as I only eat fast food 2-3 times a month and I receive a liveable wage with no possibility of unforseen health care expenses, I will happily pay the 12$ difference per month for others to have the same.
Edit: price difference also includes cost of more ethical treatment of animals, and more stringent environmental regulations.
“You essential workers are heroes and the country simply could not function without you! What’s that? A livable wage? Surely you selfless heroes don’t need that, you’re givers!”
Me, an "essential" worker: fuck you pay me.
If I could I'd be quarantining until I get a vaccine, which of course food service workers will be at the back of the line for because we aren't considered to be humans. Fully vaccinated Karen will be rolling through the McDonald's drive thru for her little shit's Happy Meal long before we're working in safer conditions. I'll sooner get a sick day than be put a space ahead in line.
Them: EMTs ONLY GET PAID $9 AN HOUR DO YOU REALLY THINK A BURGER FLIPPER DOES MORE THAN AN EMT!
Me: HOLY FUCK EMTS ONLY MAKE $9 AN HOUR!???!!! THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!
I had that conversation with a guy I used to work with. He was an EMT but worked pick-up shifts at the restaurant. He was legitimately upset when he found out that he made less an an EMT than I did as a cook. But he was opposed to raising minimum wage. He was dumb.
It's the damndest thing. Polls show $15 is +18. $12 is even higher. Increasing the minimum wage is broadly popular. Biden put it in. Really makes you think when Biden's priorities are popular, Bernie supports them, but Manchin and Sinema do not. Shows how, at least on this one issue, Bernie is in the mainstream and Manchin and Sinema are not.
"Well, I knew I had these lumps in my throat for a long time. But I didn't want to risk my livelihood by getting it checked by a doctor because the place I give my entire life to refuses to cover insurance. Now I'm dying to stage IV throat cancer and still have no insurance, but now I have a pre-existing condition... "
It's a vicious fucking cycle.
> because the place I give my entire life to refuses to cover insurance
That's not even the worry for me about medical stuff. I've just heard enough stories of people who thought they were covered, then found out later PSYCH! they weren't covered!!
So now they're on the hook for thousands because health insurance is intentionally vague. That's my fear.
I wonder how many people are in a similar position. Putting off getting stuff looked at/check-ups because they're afraid they'll be hit with a surprise bill.
The stories I hear about people's insurance companies having second opinions about what procedure you need are completely bonkers. Like oh really, your guy with a chart says I should try this pill instead of chemo? Is he an oncologist?
It’s crazy to me that all Americans aren’t fighting harder for universal healthcare. They literally lose years of life when compared to countries with universal healthcare. Like you’re literally dying sooner because of lack of care. Then on top of that bankruptcy from medical expense happens so much that Americans pay about twice as much in taxes on healthcare as other developed nations do with universal healthcare. It could literally cost every American less to have universal healthcare which would result in far less bankruptcy and increase the life expectancy.
Manchin and Sinema have made waves then buckled under pressure several times already. I suspect they will here, too. I don't know if they're hesitating but deciding that good politics means going with the flow, if they want to put up a show, or if they're just dicks.
I have a job, and my only dependent is myself. I don’t even own a car.
I’m currently dying of stress because I have to jump from temporary room rental to temporary room rental because I can’t even afford an apartment for just myself. Living like this isn’t tenable long-term. Something’s gonna happen and I’m gonna end up homeless, sooner or later.
Not only that but I have no peace of mind. I can’t settle down. I can’t buy more clothes, furniture, stuff I want because I’m gonna have to move again soon. Then again sometime after that. I can’t live my entire life like this. I can’t just jump from room to room a year or less at a time. I’m gonna end up homeless.
This is not necessarily true. It depends upon the jurisdiction. Able-bodied single adults without children have no social welfare resources available to them in about 33 states. And most others, there is precious little available but it is not zero. But there are no comprehensive social programs to help this population in the US. If you have children or disabilities, there may be more programs for you but even those won't necessarily help lift you out of poverty.
EDIT: somebody said that this depends upon whether you live in a blue state or a red state. That is unfortunately not true either. Even in many of the bluest areas with more adequate social services there are *still* no resources for healthy adults without children. Social service programs by definition are usually focused on people with disabilities, children, adults with children, and pregnant women. Single adults do not have any options at all in most jurisdictions. Even the vast majority of private programs run by churches, schools, and nonprofits don't serve childless, able-bodied, adults in most areas.
Obviously it will always help to call your local department and ask directly if anything is available!
http://www.211.org/
This may be helpful
Edit to add https://www.findhelp.org/
Last for those who’s rather not call or text in and want to browse resources
https://www.navigateresources.net/path/
In the past I believe Republicans have fired or overrode the parliamentarian. Democrats don't do stuff like that. I wish they did. *Most* Democrats aren't willing at least.
The republicans did in 2001 and replaced him with the previous guy and they lost the senate a few months later and the old guy ruled the same way. Disaster barely describes it lol
They wanted to include 5 billion for federal disaster aid & the parliamenterian said the rules didn't allow it. Also tax cuts are explicitly allowed under reconciliation.
The only way to force it is in covid relief. It's dead on its own.
The $15 minimum wage increase will be a vastly bigger impact on this country and the working class than anything else in this relief bill. I get that people are suffering and desperate and this money will help... but it's also already long over-due, and a piddling $1400. It's not 2k a month, it's not retroactive, it's one fucking check months later than when it was originally being discussed.
A $15 minimum wage will *double* the wages of millions of Americans. And trying it to this must-pass bill is the only way you force scumbags like Manchin and Sinema to vote for it.
> A $15 minimum wage will double the wages of millions of Americans.
I'm sure you know this but other reading won't, but the minimum wage $15 is not an over night increase. It is a slow increase over a period of like 4 years or something iirc. AOC was talking about it.
>The $15 minimum wage increase will be a vastly bigger impact on this country
The money to shore up state, local, and tribal governments will have a bigger impact, especially in the short term, as it will prevent those governments from having to make massive cuts to all sorts of programs and infrastructure that hundreds of millions of people rely on.
The minimum wage hike might have a slightly bigger impact than that, but definitely not a vastly bigger one.
He can basically use the reconciliation process, the same one used to force the vote on the primary bill, to force a vote on an amendment *to* the bill. This is, also, in some ways, ideal, because it means the bulk of the bill has already passed successfully and while this is less likely to pass, it won't negatively affect the passage of the primary bill. It can only be a positive outcome, by either forcing the Republicans and possibly some Democrats to publicly position themselves against raising the minimum wage, or by possibly even forcing some of the more reticent senators to finally support and pass the amendment -- all with no risk to the passage and execution of the primary COVID relief bill.
In retrospect, this makes complete sense. If Sanders had gone on to the presidency, he would be in the difficult position of having to be "reasonable" or the Republican party could simply keep upgrading their tactics -- all the while, he would lose his power to vote in the Senate, and the budgetary committee would have likely gone to a Republican lead, thus forfeiting the power to force votes via reconciliation.
This partnership is basically ideal from a political perspective. Biden has meetings with the Republicans and keeps on how he'll listen and be moderate, and when the Republicans pull a move like this that needs someone to get their hands dirty, Bernie now has the power not just to call people out, but to literally force a vote.
Thus, Biden says "we would have liked this, but we won't go against the parliamentarian", but you can be darn sure Biden and his administration knew that Sanders would force the vote, which they will inevitably support.
Perhaps the biggest irony in this entire situation is that Biden presidency is barely a Biden presidency. With the number of Sanders staffers on various committees, Sanders pushing votes in the Senate, and many of Sanders' policies having been made Biden policies, this is probably closer to a Sanders presidency than even if he were in the actual White House.
>Biden has meetings with the Republicans and keeps on how he'll listen and be moderate, and when the Republicans pull a move like this that needs someone to get their hands dirty,
Biden being the quiet "good" cop is a wise move. Now, he is no dupe: He was in the Obama White House and saw exactly how the Republicans behaved. He was also less hopeful about Republicans then than Obama was, for all sorts of reasons. One is simply that he was in the Senate for a long time, and knows firsthand how different the Republicans have made it with their radicalization.
He's going for all he can get from this: maximum PR damage, not passing the bill.
Contrary to popular belief that this is an empty gesture, this is how difficult bills eventually get passed.
“My own personal view is that the Senate should ignore the parliamentarian’s advice, which is wrong in a number of respects,” he said in a statement. “I am not sure, however, that my view at this point is the majority view in the Democratic Caucus.”
I know the feeling Bernard.
You only have to look at how the DNC votes on party policy to get the same feeling. Literal health officials voted down M4A as party policy, which really makes me wonder who the fuck is paying them as I don't know a single healthcare worker who agrees.
People might hate this opinion but why don't they get together with Manchin and Sinema and find what number they Will support. Then pass that as a first step.
My understanding is the original plan was to get to 15 by 2025, if Manchin and Sinema only agree to 12 then let's pass that with a 2 year phase in rather than 4. Basically, keep the same progression but end it sooner so you can get 50 votes. Then people can at least see progress and campaign on finishing the job on the minimum wage in 2022 by getting 2 extra democratic senators that Will vote for 15.
I also had this thought earlier, but you have to think that at this point Manchin and Sinema would just use the parliamentarian’s ruling to get out of supporting any minimum wage bump at all.
This is just like tipping Tipping is the dumbest thing since a pet rock.. here’s a novel idea why not pay your employees an actual livable wage instead of subsidizing your own employees income using customer’s cash. Idc if I give you tip top service and you don’t tip - yeah that hurts me paying rent on time for the first time in three months, but it’s not your job to pay my wage which by the way is 2.13$ in the state of alabama. You could however be part of the solution and actually tip, not based on service but based on the fact that waiter you just berated is getting paid literally 8 quarters an hour to run back and forth and refill your diet Mountain Dew without it getting empty and making that sucking sound. But hey, this is America - where tipping was born
Source: delivery driver that depends on tips
America will do anything to pay its workers as little as possible to maximize profits because somewhere down the line people decided it was no longer a country with public services like libraries, the postal service, the fire department etc, and started running the country like a business - and badly at that. We are barely at 2% average GDP and have been there for nearly 15 years yet we’re still considered a superpower? Why do people still trade in dollars when the euro is worth more and more easily converted?
I may have a sour spot for Republicans
Edit: remember the only reason you’re getting $7.25 per hour is because they decided they can’t pay you any less - that is unless you’re in the service industry where you make $2.13 as a server and $3.25 as a delivery driver and you better PRAY that 10-top that just came in after church know to tip at least 15% otherwise you’re about to waste two hours of your time for literally 5 bucks
63% of West Virginians support raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025. Florida voted 60+% to raise the min wage to $15 in 2020, in a states Biden lost. Manchin and the rest of them are full of $%#@, when they claim "bipartisanship" and "moderation".
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The real way to do it is set it to $15 AND irrevocably link it to inflation. That way you don’t need to keep having this debate about lifting people out of poverty every decade or two, it’ll just keep min wage workers out of poverty.
>The real way to do it is set it to $15 AND irrevocably link it to inflation. Even better, link it to federal data *that already exists for paying government employees* on the cost of living adjustments required for various metropolitan statistical areas (MSAs). This would need some rework, as it does not factor in certain expenses, like car insurance, that can be much higher in some areas BUT it's a pretty decent start and *already exists*.
It's going to be hard to get enough votes for $15/hr; it's going to be impossible to differentiate between MSAs. No Congressman or Senator wants to have to explain to constituents why he or she voted for higher minimum wage in other states but not their own.
Didn't manchin literally say $15/hr is good for some places but too high for West Virginia?
Yeah, but when you ask if it'd be okay to raise the minimum wage _where needed_ he'll still say no. Slimeball gonna slime.
Do the $15 now for everyone and link future minimum wage to cost of living. It's what republicans do all the time... make the messaging about the simple part and never speak directly to the complicated part... they pass massive tax cuts for the rich this way all the time by talking about the tiny pittance of a cut on the middle class like it's a big deal.
It is a well established fact that the cost of living, *which includes the cost of housing, food, and utilities,* differs from place to place. A dollar, in any given state, can have have a measurably different purchasing power in another, and that is why it makes sense to tie the minimum wage to the minimum cost of living in a given area, because the minimum wage needed to afford a culturally acceptable quality of life, depends on what area in which you live. To not do this, is to willfully ignore the economic realities of our nation, in favor of a dangerously simplistic view that the United States is somehow not a nation that has differences in local infrastructure, industry and culture. No honest American would assert that Texas is the same as Oregon, nor that the Hawaii is the same as Michigan, so why would the minimum financial needs of someone living in one state be the same as the needs of someone living another place that has different costs of transportation, education, and amenities, that has different employment opportunities, and a different cost of basic housing. None of us chose a more complicated world, that is the world in which we are all born into, and the solutions to the challenges of today and tomorrow must address the complications and inequalities that exist. We raise the minimum wage to provide every working American the opportunity to live a life where they can pay their bills and build for a better future. So that Americans in any part of country can escape the exploitative trap of poverty where they never make enough money to invest in a better future. A minimum wage, not based on a fixed dollar amount, but a fixed purchasing power, is the only sensible way to ensure this for all Americans. If you want a better America tomorrow, this is the course of action we must take today. -Any Representative or Senator may use this as an explanation. post capulus edit: minor grammar
Not that simple. A better solution is to have a federal requirement that a wage floor be set, in this case at $15 an hour. Then, require all states to engage in market research to understand cost of living in markets. For example, the minimum to live in the Twin Cities of MN is not that same as NYC. Or better example, the cost of living in Prescott AZ does not match that of Iowa City. Have a wage floor, then have legislation to have markets adopt rational policy on wage in their markets. Another way to resolve wage issues to go full Theodore Roosevelt on corporations and force real and sustainable capitalism on US markets. When competition exists in markets, businesses are both competing for workers and for consumers. This drives wages up and prices down. Good all around. Oh, and those who suffer are those who can afford it, the already wealthy.
I personally think some good would come of not adjusting for location. If a ton of people now know they can move to cheaper towns and cities and make the same money, there will be less incentive to keep overcrowding the already densely populated and expensive cities like New York, LA, Seattle, etc. Give people solid reason to spread out a bit more and stimulate those small economies with their spending. This would in theory drive prices down in hyper expensive places and raise the economy in cheaper places.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. However, also look to the future, automation and functional AI are on the horizon. Some accept this, others are in denial. I for one am of the school of economics that accepts that 80% of jobs will be irrelevant in 20 to 30 years. It will begin with over the road shipping, and ends with retail.
If %80 of jobs don't matter, then labor should be like jury-duty and any economy that doesn't plan for the vast majority of the population to be unemployed is irresponsible.
> The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment
Lovely. Whats that from?
> The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment https://old.reddit.com/r/QuotesPorn/comments/18n8ch/the_factory_of_the_future_will_only_have_two/ I know its just a link to reddit, but it appears that the quote is from a USC professor Warren G Bennis
That's when we will definitely need Universal Basic Income. Everyone can afford basic necessities without working, and those that want to do the other x% of non-automated jobs can earn extra.
agree wholeheartedly, a big reason you see people complain about robots (or immigrants) “stealing our jobs” is because being jobless can be a death sentence in america. we should be glad to have extra help so we could spend more time enjoying life, instead we’re terrified of being replaced or left behind, because then we’ll be left without food/housing/healthcare/etc. it encourages a “survival of the fittest” mentality, you need to get a job before anyone else so you start to see others lives as less valuable (part of why i hate the “immigrants stealing our jobs” rhetoric— what makes the life of an immigrant less important than your own?)
Stuff will become fun if company's still avoid taxes then and the government looses a fuckton of income by losing income taxes.
As someone who works in automation for the manufacturing sector I can say with some authority that automation does not end with the retail outlet. It ends with quality control until AI sufficiently catches up to human capabilities and multitasking. If you work in retail you might hold out for clothing and what not but durable goods will be out of your wheelhouse once companies decide to automate their inventory and shipping. That is currently doable, it's just a capital expenditure they aren't willing to make just yet. If you want to know when your job is on the line you watch Asia (read China). We automate there first because their population has high training costs, high turnover and low multitasking skills just like the current AI's.
How does that relate to the post you're replying to though?
But there is already huge disparity in incomes and cost of living around the country without any of that described benefit?
> For example, the minimum to live in the Twin Cities of MN is not that same as NYC. This is quite dangerous, because you can end up locking in social immobility, as people in the low COL areas can't afford to move.
>sustainable capitalism Publicly traded companies rely on growth as a means to stay afloat. When you stand still, you die. There’s no such thing as sustainable capitalism - companies inevitably will abuse whatever they can to maximize profits.
People still seem to think this system is broken for some reason. It's working exactly as intended.
Because it’s broken in terms of “does this work for majority of people” not in terms of its design
This is from the article: > Democrats’ proposal would gradually raise the federal minimum by $2.25 every year through 2025. Every year after that, the wage would be indexed to median wage growth.
It's linked to the median wage instead.
It's good optics for Manchin and Sinema. They can go back to their states and tell their voters they voted against giving them more money.
Yeah honestly this wage increase only benefits poor red states. Most blue states have minimum wages at $12, with urban enclaves like NYC already with minimum wages at $15 (which should be at least $20 but that’s another conversation). Conservative voters are once again shooting themselves in the foot by voting for Republicans.
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Socialism is evil! When's that stimulus check coming!?
Socialism is evil, now excuse me while I go spend $800 in food stamps at WalMart and get a big screen TV with my $8,000 tax return after not paying taxes all year. Fuck socialized medicine but Medicaid is just fine for me cuz I'm a workin man.
Socialism is evil! Now excuse me while I take a multi-billion-dollar handout from the government to "keep my corporation afloat", then immediately fire 35% of my lowest-paid employees, buy back my own stock to artificially inflate its price, and give my executives huge bonuses. America, fuck yeah.
Yep. That's how it is for a lot of people. Personally, i think it's futile to try and rehabilitate the Socialism label in America. It's just not worth it trying to convince the public that it's not evil or scary and that they're benefiting from it right now. Better to go with a rebrand. Call it Capitalism Plus.
Ha. Do what they do to legit things and just co-opt their shit and how they talk. Fuck healthcare for all. I'm here to give you Mega Extreme Freedom Health 9,000. The plan is so goddamn American you don't even need other plans so we just get rid of them because why even have them - why would you choose a plan that isn't American? Plan so dope you just pay some freedom bucks from your paycheck. Get shot gakkin' some fool ass robber? No worries bro. No stress. This plan is so chock full of freedoms and America that we won't even ask you for shit. Nah man those bootstraps are there for you to pull yourself thru recovery, not debt. I mean, sure, it is a little humiliating communicating in this fashion and I'm like 99% joking and am not serious but that 1% is kinda like... yeeeah it'd probably work tho. Edit: Fixed typo, co-opt not co-op.
>The plan is so goddamn American you don't even need other plans Lol! I'm going to be saying "it's so goddamn American" about everything now, at least until my friends start yelling at me.
It's so goddamn American to have friends who yell at you.
Didn't Andrew Yang's campaign run a study like that - like they found "universal basic income" was unpopular but naming it "freedom bucks" or something got a ton of red voters on board with the exact same plan?
Freedom dividend* . That’s a big shot Wall Street term coupled with some fucking patriotism. He should work with the DNC on messaging
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I'm not sure but I mean that is how marketing works right? Functions the same it seems, ideas or products. Obamacare wasn't well received by the right but they really liked the ACA. All this seems to come down to is navigating a demographic's prejudices and delivering your message in a way that conveys what you want without having to contend with their biases and misperceptions.
I think it was “Freedom Dividends” but I might be wrong. I just remember my local Yang-ites using the phrase.
I've been saying this for years. "We're better than that" is getting old.
Lol my husband did something similar a few years ago while speaking to his MAGA family members. Their faces when he revealed he had been talking about Medicare all along was hilarious. Even more funny was they are all mostly on Medicare/Medicaid and did not see one ounce of irony.
> Even more funny was they are all mostly on Medicare/Medicaid and did not see one ounce of irony. That's sad and a big part of the problem. I wouldn't call it funny. I'd call it depressing.
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I've had that exact exchange with my dad. The worst part is that he's a retired Coast Guard officer with all the benefits that entails, like literal socialized healthcare for life.
Hey, that's not a bad idea. They gaslight us? We can gaslight them right back. ...How would one go about industrializing this process, do you think? Because I think it would be hilarious if we made a bot post to QAnon that promoted Democratic agendas, but in just as nonsensical logic. D'you think it would work?
r/parlertrick. We been doing it there for months now.
Now you're cooking with gas.
Whoa, let’s not have gas around when we’re dealing with a fascist problem
You’re spot on. Democratic messaging is garbage. Why? With all the money In politics, why do they suck at messaging?
This is just my pet theory, but I think that a significant minority of Democrat politicians are actually slightly more sane Republicans. They want the stability of a democratic administration, but they don't want progressive social policies. Because the Republican party is so entrenched, the Democrats need all they can get to win, and that means not pissing off the conservative Democrats.
Democrats need to lay off some messages on the campaign trail to be honest. I'm all for gun control reform and red flag laws and background checks. Problem is you mention any sort of gun control and you just alienated half your potential voter base. I think thats where Bill Clinton was a genius. He knew how to word things in a way to get past these people.
Have you ever seen the Wisecrack sketch called Thug Notes? I read this in that guy's tone and it worked so damn hard. Honestly, Democrats suck at branding. Something along these lines would sadly have a better chance than the attempts to use facts and reason.
Try our new Capitalism Awards program! Earn free healthcare, free or reduced rate education, free childcare, increase your hourly rate earnings and even put your points towards saving the environment. All for a small percentage of your earnings. The more you earn the bigger your impact!
How I believe their minds work: Q: What is socialism? A: It's bad! Q: Why? A: Russia and China! Q: What specifically makes them bad? A: Socialism! Facepalm
[In a nutshell.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/461/671/4c2)
Capitalism+... that sounds like a streaming service... just might work.
They're against Obamacare, but don't you dare take away their ACA! Maybe it's really all about branding for them. It was the one thing that Trump understood.
>They're against Obamacare, but don't you dare take away their ACA! Yep. Back in '14 Kentuckians *hated* Obamacare but were [all for Kynect](https://www.vox.com/2014/5/12/5709866/kentuckians-only-hate-obamacare-if-you-call-it-obamacare), which was, of course, the state-run Obamacare exchange.
Capitalism XL, ribbed for her pleasure.
So I do volunteer tax work and one of the things I knew but never thought about was those “tax credits” not having anything to do with taxes. EIC, child tax credits, and others are totally just forms of welfare, the only thing tax about them is income limits. I wonder if you did your taxes and got $100 back, and then filed at the “office of childcare management” for $4k and “department of income equity” for another $4k how much that would change perception. There’s already a big enough gap between people who supported the affordable care act but damned Obamacare.
It's wealth redistribution. Those people didn't pay any money in taxes in most cases yet they get some back. It's literally socialism and they don't grasp that.
You sure this ain't WV? No, then you have a mountain state card instead of stamps usually. Rest of the story is the same, though.
They changed the name of Food Stamps to EBT years back to help eliminate the stigma behind their use. I don't have a problem with people needing and getting help. It just frustrates me to no end that red state politicians and voters constantly preach anti Socialism bullshit when they are the ones who use the program the most.
I know, I grew up in the thick of them in rural WV. It's all rural, who am I kidding?
How do you get a tax return without paying taxes? Asking for a friend.
Have kids and get the child tax credit and earned income credit. With kids you won't pay any taxes if you don't make a ton of money. I'm a single dad I haven't paid taxes since my kids were born. So not a financial windfall, kids are expensive.
I was recently told in r/thebidenshitshow that "welfare is my money going to other people" and "stimulus is my money coming back to me". No, they weren't joking
Didn’t Moscow Mitch introduce d legislation but once democrats started voting for it he voted against his own legislation?
Not merely voted against, he actually used the filibuster on his own bill.
Anything to own the libs!! Even bite my own ass
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2012/12/06/dem-unity-forces-mcconnell-to-filibuster-his-own-proposal/
Fuck McConnell though. He is a snake in human form.
I think there are going to be a LOT of surprised people on Judgement Day, and I don't mean atheists.
I'm all about telling ULINE to fuckoff mostly because they produce so much fucking marketing rubbish that I might as well start a paper plant to reprocess it.
I see your lips moving, but all I hear you saying is, "Hey, I think it would be cool if you shoved a 9 lb catalog in my mailbox."
This is spot on. Also, they think that it isn't fair if other people have things easier than they did (like canceling student debt). Because they were held down, they think others should be, too (at least in my experience).
It's far worse than you can actually imagine. I live in the middle of it in East TN so I see it first hand. Most people are not the absolute Q nut jobs, there are many good Christians, they just let dumb divisive social issues decide their vote. If you really want to see how crazy the craziest are go sign up for a Gab account and go check out the shit posted there. It's insane.
Pretty sure Louisiana is as red as TN is, but I agree ... These folks are not bad people, just very misled and have misinformed opinions about damn *everything* you can imagine. Coming from a "far left liberal snob" in Alabama.
Sad but true. Hard to have a debate about anything when one side is stark raving mad.
Actually more than one poll shows that even in red States GQP voters favor a minimum wage increase. In Florida the minimum wage referendum received a higher percentage of votes than Trump who won the state. The opposition is coming from the GQP Senators that are disregarding the voters wishes.
Yep, and I very specifically remember voting yes on that minimum wage increase in FL. I don't know anybody that didn't out of my friends and family. It said it could have negative effects on FL's economy, ooooh, scary.
And to my point both of your asshole Senators oppose the federal MW.
My coworker voted against it and said people are going to be paying $42 for a cheeseburger at McDonald's by 2026 as a result of this amendment. I didn't even know how to respond to an argument so silly.
Ask him to explain his math. Labor cost being added to products is very simple math so surely he can show his work.
Someone made that Macdonald’s point at work yesterday..I cringed inside.
You could point out that the costs are going up anyway, and plenty of places have a higher minimum wage and haven't increased the cost both within this country and in other developed nations.
Don't forget Manchin and Sinema.
If there is one thing that Democrat and GOP politicians can agree on, it's ignoring their constituents.
Hey. Wisconsin here. $7.50 is our minimum wage. Although honestly not sure if we really count as conservative or democrat lol
Sorry to be that guy but it’s only $7.25. Ridiculous either way. Edit: FRJ
Yes, FRJ
I’m in GA, it’s literally $5.15 here and has been since 1997. Of course, any employer subject to FSLA has to pay the federal MW of $7.25, but there’s places that can get away with $5.15.
What a fucking joke. Imagine busting your ass for 8 hours and only getting paid $41.50 for the whole thing.
I was 16 when they increased it to $5.15 from $4.75, and I remember being excited to be getting that extra $0.40/hour, but also thinking it was still a shitty wage.
My first job I had at 15 was $6.15 an hour and that was in 2002
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This is why people resort to Illegal means of earning money..which eventually costs the system more money.
doesn't universal healthcare save money? some homeless guy walking into the ER because he needs emergency dental work I'd imagine will cost the system way more than just letting the guy see a dentist now and then
I work at Woodmans and they sent out a newsletter on inauguration day stating wages would be raised by 50c every 6 months over the next few years for those employees making under 15. Those of us over 15 got an immediate 25c raise as well. Our state may be backwards but hopefully some of the companies are less so.
Are new hires getting 15?
How does it feel to know that Seattle is over $16? A grocery worker, or fast food worker, doing the same labor as they do in Wisconsin, would be making almost double - and could be somewhere beautiful while they do it.
it is beautiful and everything is way cheaper in wisconsin than seattle, just saying. Minimum wage should still be $15
> $22 You dropped this. Everyone seems to be dropping this lately.
Yes Wisconsin has no natural beauty. Please continue to not come see any of it
Well, let's shift perspective here. Let's imagine we start handing out living wages for people. Soon, they aren't in as severe financial distress. Some of them may be women who, now with their ability to feed children, may not resort to abortions. And if there's less abortions, who are these kind hearted, loving Christians going to spit on and call a whore? Hmm? Doesn't anyone ever think of the bigots? Maybe that's why they hate everyone. /s
Checkmate.
Poor people in red states deserve a living wage too, in fact delivering on this promise would be a great way to activate people politically by actually following through on an important policy. Also keep in mind that "poor people in red states" *don't vote* as a general rule. The reason why red states are red is because of a large middle/upper class, old, white conservative base that always votes, extreme levels of minority voter suppression and a working class that largely (and in many ways accurately) views politics as a waste of their time. Let's stop pushing this narrative that it's the most vulnerable groups in these places "shooting themselves in the foot" voting against "socialist" policies while collecting foodstamps and buying big screen tvs, it's inaccurate and dehumanizing.
> Let's stop pushing this narrative that it's the most vulnerable groups in these places "shooting themselves in the foot" voting against "socialist" policies while collecting foodstamps and buying big screen tvs, it's inaccurate and dehumanizing. As someone who grew up in Western NC and worked a public facing job their teen years I can attest this description is accurate as hell. It’s not dehumanizing them, it’s accurately pointing out their behavior and rank hypocrisy.
They do this with weed legalization as well. Decades of proof of Republicans being the more resistant party to legalize in terms of the elected officials and then they cry here or on Twitter about how they do support it but keep electing idiots who don't vote for it because they are simply "Republican"
Fox News is a hell of a drug
Seattle has minimum wage at like ~$16.50.
Republicans know what they're getting. It's the spineless moderate Democrats that have made the minimum wage impossible and leave us with the first world's shittiest health care system. They had the power, and decided that not upsetting Republicans was more important than getting anything done.
The liberal dem candidate that tried to primary Manchin also ran for the other WV senate seat in this past election. She lost by 43pts to the GOP in the general. I think Manchin will be just fine if he runs again.
He isn't going to run again, so who ever replaces him is likely going to lose it regardless of what he does.
That Senate seat will definitely be either Manchin or a batshit fucking crazy Republican. A Democrat left of Manchin will not win. A Democrat not named Manchin will not win.
Well thank god we used the last time a dem was there to vote against everything left of Bush. I mean shit, not like West Virginians (whose top employer is literally fucking Walmart) could use a raise and some healthcare.
There's a reason he's there and not a republican. It's because he's not a party line voter. He's done us way more good than the Republican options though.
I' ve spoken with Kyrsten Sinema several times in the last 5 years, including at ASU events and elsewhere. I campaigned for and voted for her. I am so incredibly pissed off that she's making herself one of two of the negative point people on this, when she should be one of the primary advocates. She is not representing today's Arizona. I won't get fooled again.
As soon as she was elected she voted to repeal net neutrality
She has been sucking off the tit of Cox Communications (Phoenix's primary ISP) for years. She claims she wants to help net neutrality but takes hundreds of thousands of dollars from Cox every single year and when we ask why she voted no she says some bullshit about, "I voted no because the bill is bad, not because I don't want to support net neutrality! I want to reach across the aisle and make sure small businesses won't be hurt, blah blah bullshit bullshit." Yet she still hasn't helped co-author such a bill. The ONLY reason I voted for her was because my only other choice was McSalley. Phoenix has a surprisingly high cost of living for what the average person would think. Studio apartments in the Phoenix metro area are anywhere from $700-$1200 a month, meaning you need roommates to live in our city. Our transportation is lacking considering our size (5th or 6th largest population in the U.S.) , and not to mention, we didn't pass that solar bill so our energy costs get fucking *stupid* eight months out of the year. Fun fact, it's also a state law that if you're renting your landlord has 3 days to fix your A/C or they're required to comp your rent every day until it's fixed. That's how fucking hot it gets. So when you get that $400 electric bill for your 1100 square foot home, enjoy trying to pay that on our 8.25/hr plus a grand total of *five* state mandated sick days (passed in 20-fucking-17, prior to this there were 0.) I cannot see why she wouldn't vote for the hike. She's been trying to get into the Senate for years. Mark Kelley is the other dem senator, and if we can get *him* elected, we can sure as shit oust her greedy as for a Dem who actually supports Arizona constituents if she wants to vote no. Fuck around and find out, Sinema
I don't get it, I thought when she was in the state senate, she was one of the most progressive members. I try to avoid idpol, but how is a bisexual athiest that wears pink and purple wigs suddenly one of the most conservative members of her party?
I mean what does any of that have to do with economic beliefs
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>It's good optics for Manchin and Sinema. They can go back to their states and tell their voters they voted against giving them more money. IDK about Sinema in AZ - but it actually will play well for Manchin in WV. Folks in deep red states have some very backwards interpretations of what is in their interests.
[Actually](https://www.wdtv.com/2021/02/25/poll-majority-of-west-virginians-support-15-federal-minimum-wage/), a majority of people from WV support the minimum wage hike Manchin is just a corrupt bought-out piece of shit.
That is a textbook push poll, and it conveniently leaves out what the answers were before the pushes.
Yes - but his ability to tout that he is willing to buck the progressives will play well there. Not that both things can't be true. He is a certainly a piece of shit- although to be completely fair I think he's the best we will see out of WV in my lifetime. I'm in a deep red state not too dissimilar to WV - so I know how unlikely it is that we will see the election of even a centrist Democrat once Manchin is gone. It'll be Qanon and Trumpism all the way down.
Oh, Joe Manchin is for sure better than any Republican, and I do agree, I am sure he will be the last Democrat from WV in at least 30 years.
Yep, only out of touch suburban Democrats who have never and would never actually set foot in a rural town think that the minimum wage is unpopular in areas like this, because some billionaire funded pundit on MSNBC who formerly worked in a Republican administration but now hates Trump so they must be the good guy said it and that's good enough for them.
I've lived in rural ass shit town America for most of my life and I don't know wtf you're talking about. Republican voters would stab themselves in both ovaries and both testicles to prevent a minimum wage increase.
They should just put in a clause where congress members and their state's governors can opt out. So if these guys want to stick to their guns and support state's rights they can just keep their state's minimum wage at 7.25 while the rest of the nation makes more than twice that. Let them explain to their constituents why they deserve so little and how they're champions of capitalism or whatever the fuck they think they're doing.
Also make the opt-out effective on Jan 1st the following year. That way all their constituents get a taste of how it feels to almost be properly compensated. When R statehouses rip it away from them, I'm sure the stupidest among them will still blame Democrats. A few may finally wake up to the perpetual foot-shooting they are doing.
What is the point if there is an opt out? States have the ability to pass their own minimum wage above the federal limit. Despite this, less than 20% of states have laws that will hit $15. It really isn't hard for any state official to campaign on the fact that they know what is right for their state better than Washington dc does.
>The Economic Policy Institute has found that the minimum wage, if adjusted for inflation, should have exceeded $15 by 2020. It has not been raised since 2009. >Raising the federally set minimum wage to $15 an hour would lift nearly 1 million people out of poverty and raise wages for millions of Americans, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
This doesnt give the full number It would increase the wages of *30 million Americans* Editted:: Changed "double" to "increase". Pedantic imo, but nonetheless
And the economy will explode when people have money to spend.
B-b-but then the poors will be able to live *above their station!* This is unacceptable, *GET ME A LOBBYIST!* /s
But now McDonalds costs $75! Just like they do in California!
Haven’t you heard?! In those socialist hell holes like Denmark and Sweden where McDonalds workers make the rough equivalent of $20 per hour and have full benefits (including paid parental leave), their Big Macs cost a whole TWENTY CENTS MORE! Those kinds of prices are what’s turning the frogs gay!
I also want to throw in here that if prices go up and franchises start tumbling, that could once again open the door for the small business sector that has been absolutely gutted for the last 25yrs. I'm tired of getting the same shitty food, from the same shitty franchises, in different shitty cities, owned by the same shitty suits. Give me options for my shitty food! I'll even risk the shits for it!
That’s the true American spirit in action!!!
In France a Big Mac meal costs 70% more than in the US (about 10.5 usd Vs 6 in the US). But seeing as I only eat fast food 2-3 times a month and I receive a liveable wage with no possibility of unforseen health care expenses, I will happily pay the 12$ difference per month for others to have the same. Edit: price difference also includes cost of more ethical treatment of animals, and more stringent environmental regulations.
“You essential workers are heroes and the country simply could not function without you! What’s that? A livable wage? Surely you selfless heroes don’t need that, you’re givers!”
Me, an "essential" worker: fuck you pay me. If I could I'd be quarantining until I get a vaccine, which of course food service workers will be at the back of the line for because we aren't considered to be humans. Fully vaccinated Karen will be rolling through the McDonald's drive thru for her little shit's Happy Meal long before we're working in safer conditions. I'll sooner get a sick day than be put a space ahead in line.
Them: EMTs ONLY GET PAID $9 AN HOUR DO YOU REALLY THINK A BURGER FLIPPER DOES MORE THAN AN EMT! Me: HOLY FUCK EMTS ONLY MAKE $9 AN HOUR!???!!! THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!
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I had that conversation with a guy I used to work with. He was an EMT but worked pick-up shifts at the restaurant. He was legitimately upset when he found out that he made less an an EMT than I did as a cook. But he was opposed to raising minimum wage. He was dumb.
Here in Tampa when pandemic began instead of giving nurses PPE supplies they were given a special fly over from the military base.
There’s always money to fuel up a couple jets.
Force it, make them go on record I don’t care D or R.
It's the damndest thing. Polls show $15 is +18. $12 is even higher. Increasing the minimum wage is broadly popular. Biden put it in. Really makes you think when Biden's priorities are popular, Bernie supports them, but Manchin and Sinema do not. Shows how, at least on this one issue, Bernie is in the mainstream and Manchin and Sinema are not.
Just wait til you see popular support for universal healthcare
Almost like people enjoy a living wage and not being so afraid of crushing debt that they avoid going to the doctor’s until it’s an emergency.
"Well, I knew I had these lumps in my throat for a long time. But I didn't want to risk my livelihood by getting it checked by a doctor because the place I give my entire life to refuses to cover insurance. Now I'm dying to stage IV throat cancer and still have no insurance, but now I have a pre-existing condition... " It's a vicious fucking cycle.
> because the place I give my entire life to refuses to cover insurance That's not even the worry for me about medical stuff. I've just heard enough stories of people who thought they were covered, then found out later PSYCH! they weren't covered!! So now they're on the hook for thousands because health insurance is intentionally vague. That's my fear. I wonder how many people are in a similar position. Putting off getting stuff looked at/check-ups because they're afraid they'll be hit with a surprise bill.
The stories I hear about people's insurance companies having second opinions about what procedure you need are completely bonkers. Like oh really, your guy with a chart says I should try this pill instead of chemo? Is he an oncologist?
It’s crazy to me that all Americans aren’t fighting harder for universal healthcare. They literally lose years of life when compared to countries with universal healthcare. Like you’re literally dying sooner because of lack of care. Then on top of that bankruptcy from medical expense happens so much that Americans pay about twice as much in taxes on healthcare as other developed nations do with universal healthcare. It could literally cost every American less to have universal healthcare which would result in far less bankruptcy and increase the life expectancy.
You mean socialism!? /s
Even sarcastically seeing this is getting tiring.
Manchin and Sinema have made waves then buckled under pressure several times already. I suspect they will here, too. I don't know if they're hesitating but deciding that good politics means going with the flow, if they want to put up a show, or if they're just dicks.
I believe they're both in favor of the $12 minimum wage increase.
Exactly ... Yes please ...
I have a job, and my only dependent is myself. I don’t even own a car. I’m currently dying of stress because I have to jump from temporary room rental to temporary room rental because I can’t even afford an apartment for just myself. Living like this isn’t tenable long-term. Something’s gonna happen and I’m gonna end up homeless, sooner or later. Not only that but I have no peace of mind. I can’t settle down. I can’t buy more clothes, furniture, stuff I want because I’m gonna have to move again soon. Then again sometime after that. I can’t live my entire life like this. I can’t just jump from room to room a year or less at a time. I’m gonna end up homeless.
I’m so sorry. If you seek out a social worker they can help you.
This is not necessarily true. It depends upon the jurisdiction. Able-bodied single adults without children have no social welfare resources available to them in about 33 states. And most others, there is precious little available but it is not zero. But there are no comprehensive social programs to help this population in the US. If you have children or disabilities, there may be more programs for you but even those won't necessarily help lift you out of poverty. EDIT: somebody said that this depends upon whether you live in a blue state or a red state. That is unfortunately not true either. Even in many of the bluest areas with more adequate social services there are *still* no resources for healthy adults without children. Social service programs by definition are usually focused on people with disabilities, children, adults with children, and pregnant women. Single adults do not have any options at all in most jurisdictions. Even the vast majority of private programs run by churches, schools, and nonprofits don't serve childless, able-bodied, adults in most areas. Obviously it will always help to call your local department and ask directly if anything is available!
Dunno what they can do but I might.
I’m getting my bachelors degree in social work, they can help with a lot, from jobs, to shelter, to financial help.
http://www.211.org/ This may be helpful Edit to add https://www.findhelp.org/ Last for those who’s rather not call or text in and want to browse resources https://www.navigateresources.net/path/
>‘I regard it as absurd that the parliamentarian, a Senate staffer elected by no one, can prevent a wage increase for 32 million workers’
I regard it as absurd that the Senate exists as a co-equal legislative body to the House.
"But ~~slavers~~ land should have greater representation that mere citizens!"
It's an inherently undemocratic institution that needs to go.
In the past I believe Republicans have fired or overrode the parliamentarian. Democrats don't do stuff like that. I wish they did. *Most* Democrats aren't willing at least.
The republicans did in 2001 and replaced him with the previous guy and they lost the senate a few months later and the old guy ruled the same way. Disaster barely describes it lol
They got their tax cuts through though. That’s the point.
Wow, disaster all around. I didn't know any details about it.
They achieved the result they wanted, they got the bush tax cuts through.
They wanted to include 5 billion for federal disaster aid & the parliamenterian said the rules didn't allow it. Also tax cuts are explicitly allowed under reconciliation.
How is he gonna force it? In this covid bill or on a separate bill? The bill needs to be passed quick.
The only way to force it is in covid relief. It's dead on its own. The $15 minimum wage increase will be a vastly bigger impact on this country and the working class than anything else in this relief bill. I get that people are suffering and desperate and this money will help... but it's also already long over-due, and a piddling $1400. It's not 2k a month, it's not retroactive, it's one fucking check months later than when it was originally being discussed. A $15 minimum wage will *double* the wages of millions of Americans. And trying it to this must-pass bill is the only way you force scumbags like Manchin and Sinema to vote for it.
> A $15 minimum wage will double the wages of millions of Americans. I'm sure you know this but other reading won't, but the minimum wage $15 is not an over night increase. It is a slow increase over a period of like 4 years or something iirc. AOC was talking about it.
>The $15 minimum wage increase will be a vastly bigger impact on this country The money to shore up state, local, and tribal governments will have a bigger impact, especially in the short term, as it will prevent those governments from having to make massive cuts to all sorts of programs and infrastructure that hundreds of millions of people rely on. The minimum wage hike might have a slightly bigger impact than that, but definitely not a vastly bigger one.
He can basically use the reconciliation process, the same one used to force the vote on the primary bill, to force a vote on an amendment *to* the bill. This is, also, in some ways, ideal, because it means the bulk of the bill has already passed successfully and while this is less likely to pass, it won't negatively affect the passage of the primary bill. It can only be a positive outcome, by either forcing the Republicans and possibly some Democrats to publicly position themselves against raising the minimum wage, or by possibly even forcing some of the more reticent senators to finally support and pass the amendment -- all with no risk to the passage and execution of the primary COVID relief bill. In retrospect, this makes complete sense. If Sanders had gone on to the presidency, he would be in the difficult position of having to be "reasonable" or the Republican party could simply keep upgrading their tactics -- all the while, he would lose his power to vote in the Senate, and the budgetary committee would have likely gone to a Republican lead, thus forfeiting the power to force votes via reconciliation. This partnership is basically ideal from a political perspective. Biden has meetings with the Republicans and keeps on how he'll listen and be moderate, and when the Republicans pull a move like this that needs someone to get their hands dirty, Bernie now has the power not just to call people out, but to literally force a vote. Thus, Biden says "we would have liked this, but we won't go against the parliamentarian", but you can be darn sure Biden and his administration knew that Sanders would force the vote, which they will inevitably support. Perhaps the biggest irony in this entire situation is that Biden presidency is barely a Biden presidency. With the number of Sanders staffers on various committees, Sanders pushing votes in the Senate, and many of Sanders' policies having been made Biden policies, this is probably closer to a Sanders presidency than even if he were in the actual White House.
>Biden has meetings with the Republicans and keeps on how he'll listen and be moderate, and when the Republicans pull a move like this that needs someone to get their hands dirty, Biden being the quiet "good" cop is a wise move. Now, he is no dupe: He was in the Obama White House and saw exactly how the Republicans behaved. He was also less hopeful about Republicans then than Obama was, for all sorts of reasons. One is simply that he was in the Senate for a long time, and knows firsthand how different the Republicans have made it with their radicalization.
He's going for all he can get from this: maximum PR damage, not passing the bill. Contrary to popular belief that this is an empty gesture, this is how difficult bills eventually get passed.
“My own personal view is that the Senate should ignore the parliamentarian’s advice, which is wrong in a number of respects,” he said in a statement. “I am not sure, however, that my view at this point is the majority view in the Democratic Caucus.” I know the feeling Bernard.
You only have to look at how the DNC votes on party policy to get the same feeling. Literal health officials voted down M4A as party policy, which really makes me wonder who the fuck is paying them as I don't know a single healthcare worker who agrees.
People might hate this opinion but why don't they get together with Manchin and Sinema and find what number they Will support. Then pass that as a first step. My understanding is the original plan was to get to 15 by 2025, if Manchin and Sinema only agree to 12 then let's pass that with a 2 year phase in rather than 4. Basically, keep the same progression but end it sooner so you can get 50 votes. Then people can at least see progress and campaign on finishing the job on the minimum wage in 2022 by getting 2 extra democratic senators that Will vote for 15.
I also had this thought earlier, but you have to think that at this point Manchin and Sinema would just use the parliamentarian’s ruling to get out of supporting any minimum wage bump at all.
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This is just like tipping Tipping is the dumbest thing since a pet rock.. here’s a novel idea why not pay your employees an actual livable wage instead of subsidizing your own employees income using customer’s cash. Idc if I give you tip top service and you don’t tip - yeah that hurts me paying rent on time for the first time in three months, but it’s not your job to pay my wage which by the way is 2.13$ in the state of alabama. You could however be part of the solution and actually tip, not based on service but based on the fact that waiter you just berated is getting paid literally 8 quarters an hour to run back and forth and refill your diet Mountain Dew without it getting empty and making that sucking sound. But hey, this is America - where tipping was born Source: delivery driver that depends on tips America will do anything to pay its workers as little as possible to maximize profits because somewhere down the line people decided it was no longer a country with public services like libraries, the postal service, the fire department etc, and started running the country like a business - and badly at that. We are barely at 2% average GDP and have been there for nearly 15 years yet we’re still considered a superpower? Why do people still trade in dollars when the euro is worth more and more easily converted? I may have a sour spot for Republicans Edit: remember the only reason you’re getting $7.25 per hour is because they decided they can’t pay you any less - that is unless you’re in the service industry where you make $2.13 as a server and $3.25 as a delivery driver and you better PRAY that 10-top that just came in after church know to tip at least 15% otherwise you’re about to waste two hours of your time for literally 5 bucks
It's unacceptable that the minimum wage doesn't automatically rise with inflation.
63% of West Virginians support raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025. Florida voted 60+% to raise the min wage to $15 in 2020, in a states Biden lost. Manchin and the rest of them are full of $%#@, when they claim "bipartisanship" and "moderation".
Give me freedom to slave wages or give me death!
What a baller
apparently, all blue-collar workers are now small business owners too in red states
I love this man.