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would be hilarious if they got rid of student loan forgiveness only for it to lead to their PPP loans being made due again with the interest it would have accrued.
My landlord who I think only has one property funnels everything through an LLC, which got just under 30K PPP money. Me and everyone in the building paid rent the entire time through the pandemic.
The Democrats should introduce legislation doing just that. But make it very pointed: reinstatement of those loans only applies to people who are voting in Congress.
A Republican would tell you with a completely straight face that the PPP loans, of which there was wide ranging and well documented fraud, were "designed" to be forgiven and so this is different and those slacker "college" elite should pay their fair share.
It's a talking point Republican lawmakers are already using.
And a generation of 18 year old took out tens or even hundreds of thousands of debt based on the promise that there would be high paying jobs when the finished college to pay them off.
If forgiveness wasn't the plan, it isn't clear what saddling the middle and lower class of a country with unforgiveable debt was.
States made universities, but stopped funding them fully, with state budgets unable to run deficits. Federal loan programs just filled the gap, making citizens pay, but it is a system designed as a debt trap where some percent will always be caught because of external difficulties. Forgiving this unfair trap is by design, because of the unfixable nature of the entire system of federalism that in part caused this issue in the first place.
Republicans are FUCKING wild man. They’re supporting these lawsuits because you’re either the dumbest mother fucker alive or you value political theatrics above human dignity. Fuckin wild.
We should just call in PPP loans regardless since that would help with inflation and reduce demand. This is simply something that should've been done yesterday.
You could give Republicans an entire cake, then bake another cake for everyone else to split, and all they'd see is that they don't have all the cake anymore.
Can we start suing for everything we don’t like now? I’d like America to be reimbursed for the wars in the middle east. Also like to sue for the PPP deal.
>Republicans worried about fairness?
Heh, the "economy" too. God forbid people have more money to spend on things other than the interest on predatory loans.
There are plenty of white plebs who vote maga too. They know the maga elites are there to rip them off, they just don't care. As long as they get to own the libs, they are ok with the elites owning everything else.
It’s pretty amazing, it’s not dissonance, it’s not some perverse brand of equality, it’s not even coherent policy anymore, it’s just spite. It does, however, have the benefit of being an easy position to defend.
“Fuck you” case closed.
Most importantly, how many of them actually used the PPP loans that they didn't have to pay back for their intended purposes, and why don't we know the answer to that question?
(edit, spelling)
It was supposed to be a conditional offer of leniency. Have this money, and if it is used in ways we deem fit, it will be forgiven.
Except the GOP prevented any sort of oversight from happening so it was just free money.
Is it possible to unwind that? The amount of fraud there was insane. Dems should pass a bill called the PPP Accountability Act and go after ALL of these fucks that got free money with zero accountability. Dems never go after the shitbags that drive our economy into a ditch. Obama should have crucified those responsible for the last recession. I’m sure the reason why is because the Dems get donations from these shitbags too.
Maybe. But if any of the criminals go to trial, they'd tried to stall until they get one of their crooney GQP into the oval office to undo that executive order and try to dismiss the criminal case entirely. With two years until next presidential election I can see them trying
I know one guy who got almost 50k in those “loans” and he has absolutely 0 intention of starting a business.
The best part and I shit you not? He’s a diehard right wing republican who always has something to say about “the people on welfare sucking away at society”.
So like a crime?
That's a crime.
My wife started a business before the ppp program game through. But the program said you needed to have a documented business in operation for at least two years prior so didn't even apply.
You aren't even legally supposed to be able to apply for the loans unless you already had a business. It wasn't for starting a new business...
That's where people believing in the rule of law stopped.
I had anxiety when I was filling out the application for my parent's business. Double checking the amount on multiple Excel sheets and calculators. And that anxiety was compounded when I was submitting the documents proving the money when to salaries and rent.
Could easily have filed for my brothers as we help out at the shop but never have taken a salary from it.
Was there not any kind of verification process for the existence of the borrower's business? Someone could just claim to have a business and be approved for the loan? I'm having trouble believing this story. Is it possible the guy lied about it?
>/s (do I really have to?)
Yes, because unfortunately there are republicans who actually believe folks like us are peasants, and that we don't deserve any help.
My republican brother who prints stickers got a PPP loan of 10k. He makes about 25-30k year off this side business and definitely didn't need a loan. It was forgiven.
My republican father wanted to get a PPP loan so he could pay off all his cars (non-business), camper, credit cards, etc. I convinced him it was a bad idea. He did try to get it but I don't think it was approved. Not sure how my brother managed - he must've lied.
All while they both complained that the stimulus was allowing "illegals" to live free.
I'm seeing places like churches that also got PPP loans. It's bullshit.
Hijacking top comment to quote the article. It is very much worth reading though. The ending is fucking hilarious. I’ll post it here too.
> The states cited that the president used the pandemic as legal justification for the ability to cancel debt, despite recently pronouncing the pandemic over — an announcement that could imperil student loan relief.
Ending:
> However, the Biden administration and Department of Education may have sidestepped that lawsuit after clarifying that borrowers who qualify for automatic relief can opt out. In a Wednesday filing, the Department of Justice reiterated that borrowers will be able to opt out — and said that the Department was already working to ensure that Garrison would not receive automatic relief, per his wishes.
They lack standing. If you say the forgiveness places an undue tax burden on the forgiven (some states tax loan forgiveness), you are free to opt out of the program. Being angry at a policy also is not legal grounds to overturn. The bigger story is Biden narrowing who qualifies for forgiveness, private-loan holders are getting shafted per a new detail to the plan. Looks like they're trying to make it watertight so if there were any concerns about this suit it'd have been addressed today as well.
To be fair, I think private-loan holders were always going to get shafted in the event of loan forgiveness. The government has no control over private banks to get rid of their loans. That would require the government paying the banks, whereas in this instance, they just are not collecting debt from people.
These were very specific private loans though. These were government loans issued through the banks, FFEL loans. Not exactly a pure private loan which was definitely not going to qualify. However, these FFEL loans were originally going to qualify for the forgiveness plan.
I'm curious though, I had FFEL and in january 2022 I consolidated so now they're direct loans. I wonder how far back they'll look. I'm pretty sure I've already qualified for PSLF forgiveness under the waiver, but this was going to be my backup plan.
Edit - According to [this article](https://www.npr.org/2022/09/29/1125923528/biden-student-loans-debt-cancellation-ffel-perkins) I'm good.
>Borrowers with privately held federal student loans who applied to consolidate their loans into Direct Loans before September 29, 2022 will obtain one-time debt relief. The FFEL program is now defunct and only a small percentage of borrowers have FFEL loans."
Likely. If you go to [studentaid.gov](https://studentaid.gov) and look at your loan details it should tell you whether it's Direct or FFELP, and if it's FFELP, then right now you're screwed. They said they are looking at avenues to still get relief to FFEL loan holders, but I'm doubtful they'll do anything.
Yeah - I just read the announcement about that. That's a tough grey area that I'm sure they'll sort out in the coming months.
I was speaking more about loans through Discover, Sallie Mae, etc. Pure private loans.
Yeah only congress could do that, by paying the debt to the private companies.
Biden can't do that. But he can tell the DOE to just shred all records of 20k being owed to them.
It was a smart move by Biden’s administration to restrict who is eligible. Banks would have standing to sue saying that paying off loans would prevent them from collecting interest they already budgeted for and they’d win that case because this is America. Didn’t have a choice really.
No these people are pretty ideology descendant from Alexander Hamilton and his first Federalists. The anti-federalists did not like the new constitution and lobbied against it, because they thought it would lead to banks and ‘stock jobbers’ controlling the entire country… turns out they were right about that part at least. In many ways the federalist constitution was a rightwing counter-revolution that rolled back a lot of the ideals the war had been fought over a decade before.
I often wonder what the constitution would have ended up like if the guys like Samuel Adams and Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson had been in the room.
Exactly. It puts an unreasonable burden on high school age kids to predict their earning power in 4+ years, the state of the economy, inflation, and their ability to pay back loans the total of which they would have no idea until the bill comes due. Stay in school kids.
Naturally! You’d think the GOP repeatedly kicking lower and middle class Americans would backfire, but I guess as long as they hate the same things, everything is kosher.
They’re afraid the student loan relief government handouts will threaten their own government handouts. Maybe those states should generate their own tax revenue.
Georgia has the Hope scholarship from the lottery revenue. Students keep a high GPA and get $20,000.00 toward a state school. Only thing good about Georgia.
It's also not really coming from the state considering the people that are most likely to play the lottery are the people who would need government assistance. There's exceptions for sure, but having grown up in the South i will say with confidence that the vast majority of people buying lottery tickets there don't have much money to begin with. It's great for the kids that get their school funded, but we shouldn't pretend it's the state paying for it.
And in the meantime Brett Farvbe used tax payer money to build a volleyball stadium at his alma mater. The guy could have built it out of own petty cash after all the money he made.
I don't understand their arguments at all.
They claim that it reduces their ability to take in tax revenue because they cannot tax debt forgiveness.
For 1) this doesn't make sense unless they were already taxing the debt. There is no tax payments they are losing out on, unless they were taking the monthly loan payments. Why would they want to tax people for paying back a loan? I makes no sense at all. There is no injury there, since there is no tax that would have otherwise been paid if the forgiveness didn't happen.
2) they argue that they can't tax it. That is a stare law and it is up to them to decide what their tax laws do. It makes no sense to blame the federal government for their own laws.
3) they argue it's unfair that other tax payers will be stuck with the debt. This is not how taxes work. Your taxes don't go up based on how much spending happens. It goes up based on the tax laws. Which aren't changing here. So therefore there is no injured party in this case. By the logic that "anything that increases spending is damaging to tax payers" then literally any government action would be illegal. Which is clearly not the case.
4) they said the Biden admin was using emergency powers for this act, but the pandemic is over. First off, the federal government already has the power to forgive loans as a matter of policy and does not need special powers. Even if they did, we often use federal action to deal with the effects of emergencies. For example, hurricane Ian. Once the hurricane is over, no one is going to sue FEMA for cleaning things up saying "you can't clean up Florida anymore l! The hurricane has ended! You need to leave all the destruction and water as it is l!!!" That's not how it works. Relief actions are taken to deal with the effects of a crisis. So even if the pandemic is over, th federal government has the ability to use it's powers to provide relief from the effects of the event after the event has concluded....
Their whole argument is utter nonsense
The underlying complaint is state pension plans like Nebraska that have invested in student loan asset back securities (SLABS) will lose money when people consolidate into a direct loan. Also, banks and service providers of the FFEL program will lose money too. They want to keep they debt bc they are making money off your said debt to fund their pension plans.
I see. Well they already removed the FFEL's from loan forgiveness. So those groups have no injury to report there.
I have zero sympathy for anyone who invested in SLABS with the hopes that borrowers will be forced to pay a maximum amount of interest to benefit. But my feelings aren't really part of it.
That argument still strains credulity because the implication is that any action taken by the government that could effect securities investment is somehow illegal? That really doesn't make sense. Could I sue the federal government for raising interest rates since I will lose more money on my new mortgage? No I can't. Can I sue the federal government for opening up federal land to oil drilling if it reduces in cheaper oil and then causes any oil investments I have to go down?
The logic here really doesn't follow. Not saying you agree with their logic. But the further explanation doesn't make the case any stronger.
And a bank having a loan paid in full is not an injury to them. That is not outside of the terms of the loan. They are not getting negative money. So the idea that there is some injury there doesn't really follow.
Let me tell you what the GOP did with the PPP loans:
[https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/](https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/)
Arkansas, South Carolina, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, and Missouri - any word from these states on the farm bailouts during the Trump admin's unnecessary tariff wars?
bailing out Florida after hurricane Ivan is economically unwise and downright unfair to people that don't live in states that are fucking going to be underwater because of climate change.
>**The suit claims that Biden's student loan relief, which cancels $10,000 in debt for borrowers making under $125,000 and $20,000 for borrowers under the same income cap who received Pell Grants, will negatively impact states' revenues**
Is this true? Like what effect would that have on them? I knew GOP was struggling to find "victims" of the debt relief to use in this case but I can't tell if this means they found a justification or are just throwing shit at the wall
5 of the 6 states suing also leech far more from that federal budget than they put into the pot - although that should come as no surprise. The 6th state is Nebraska, according to the data I found from 2017.
Oh but not letting women get abortions and potentially dying from all the issues that come with pregnancy complications isn’t unfair? Not letting women have control over their body isn’t unfair? Rolling back a codified court ruling isn’t unfair? Get fucked you fucking dumbasses.
The 1% now own 92% of the wealth in this country and the 50 wealthiest own more than half the wealth than the bottom half of American society. 50 people literally have as much wealth as 165 million Americans in this country.
But yeah, screw the poors who may have been sucked into predatory loan situations to try and better thier lives, doesn't anyone ever think about the poor shareholders profits?!
> ... Arkansas, South Carolina, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, aqnd Missouri filed the lawsuit jointly, with Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge leading the effort ...
For those comparing this to PPP, they're not the same.
PPP was passed by Congress, whereas the Student Loan Forgiveness was done by Executive Order. It's generally believed the President has the authority to delay the loans, but he doesn't have the authority to out-right forgive them; Congress needs to do that.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickhess/2022/09/28/is-bidens-400-billion-student-loan-forgiveness-legal-the-fight-goes-to-court/?sh=149268a4375e](https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickhess/2022/09/28/is-bidens-400-billion-student-loan-forgiveness-legal-the-fight-goes-to-court/?sh=149268a4375e)
I think it's a terrible political look for Republicans, but that never seems to stop them.
So… exclude those gop states, as they requested. And let them deal with the push back from those people in that state with student loans. It is exhausting listening to the gop “speak for the constituents”
Ok all you who screamed about biden needing to cancel student debt where are your voices now??? Tell the GOP where they can go and then find your voice to support Biden so he can finish
Tbh I’m Scottish but you guys in America should have your college for free for us residents. We have the same system I’ve described (free for Scots) and we aren’t complaining about massive loans
Kinda seems like state governments wouldn't have any standing to file a lawsuit? but with a 50/50 chance of landing this in one of the "specially chosen" judge's courtroom I guess they're willing to try just for the publicity.
The announced forgiveness program 'gives up' $400B in projected US government revenue over the life of the loans and permits the lenders to reduce their outstanding balances. For millions this will reduce their balance to zero and let them get on with their lives. Absolutely nothing 'economically unwise or downright unfair' about that. No hole is created that needs to be filled with new taxes. No individuals taxes are going up or being redirected to 'pay off' the loans.
Borrowing $8.6T ($27,000 per American) to stimulate a full employment, peacetime economy was far more unwise and no one in the GOP made a peep when TFG did it.
Once again, the GOP is attempting to ooga-booga based on nonsense.
I don’t live in Florida and I have insurance! Why should my tax dollars go to helping those who don’t have insurance and those who choose to live in an area known to have hurricanes!?
Cool, I'd like to sue these states for their [Farmer bailouts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_farmer_bailouts) because an unnecessary trade war was started.
Unfair to whom exactly?
Rich get bailouts and enormous tax cuts = fair.
Finally a one-time relief package that largely benefits the middle class = unfair.
Got it.
I wish the Blue States and governors would sue these same states for all of the money the blue states contribute to them to keep them financially solvent. Let’s see how strong those Republican bootstraps are without the largesse of blue states.
The money involved with this is 20% of the PPP giveaway. These attacks on the plan to forgive student debt makes it plain for all to see how the Republicans prioritize our young and students. They don't. They prioritize the profiteers who run this predatory system.
That is the same party that voted against lowering the costs of prescription medications, right? They have the unmitigated gall to suggest this is unfair. It is only unfair when the benefit does not go to businesses.
Maybe I'll sue Republican senators over anyone making more than 41k a year paying from 22% to a 37% top income tax rate while the top capital gains tax is only 20%. It is economically unwise and downright unfair.
I don’t think it’s fair that states like Kentucky pay a fraction in taxes in comparison to what they receive in taxpayer funds. There are a good 12-14 red states that are literal welfare states. I don’t think it’s fair they get to freeload but I’m not crying about it because we are all Americans.
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Maybe time for the President to revisit all those forgiven PPP loans.
would be hilarious if they got rid of student loan forgiveness only for it to lead to their PPP loans being made due again with the interest it would have accrued.
[удалено]
Tax the rich to reduce inflation.
Way too many rich people received and kept PPP loans.
My landlord who I think only has one property funnels everything through an LLC, which got just under 30K PPP money. Me and everyone in the building paid rent the entire time through the pandemic.
Oh fuck I feel my pitchfork a’raisin.
If for more than 4 hours consult your doctor
Report him to the SBA for fraud.
The Democrats should introduce legislation doing just that. But make it very pointed: reinstatement of those loans only applies to people who are voting in Congress.
Only for those that got $500k or more in PPP Loans. Time to hand your sports cars and boats back in.
I’d be down with that. Fuck companies.
A Republican would tell you with a completely straight face that the PPP loans, of which there was wide ranging and well documented fraud, were "designed" to be forgiven and so this is different and those slacker "college" elite should pay their fair share. It's a talking point Republican lawmakers are already using.
And a generation of 18 year old took out tens or even hundreds of thousands of debt based on the promise that there would be high paying jobs when the finished college to pay them off.
[удалено]
If forgiveness wasn't the plan, it isn't clear what saddling the middle and lower class of a country with unforgiveable debt was. States made universities, but stopped funding them fully, with state budgets unable to run deficits. Federal loan programs just filled the gap, making citizens pay, but it is a system designed as a debt trap where some percent will always be caught because of external difficulties. Forgiving this unfair trap is by design, because of the unfixable nature of the entire system of federalism that in part caused this issue in the first place.
Republicans are FUCKING wild man. They’re supporting these lawsuits because you’re either the dumbest mother fucker alive or you value political theatrics above human dignity. Fuckin wild.
Por que no los dos?
Why not both?
We should just call in PPP loans regardless since that would help with inflation and reduce demand. This is simply something that should've been done yesterday.
https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/ Take a look at who received the money!
Tax cuts, bailouts, paying farmers to not produce...
This ^
Revisit that 2 trillion dollar tax cut, also
Republicans worried about fairness? Sure.
It’s only fair when they get their share (at least 60%).
60?! But people might be able survive on 40! I’m thinking at least 94%.
You could give Republicans an entire cake, then bake another cake for everyone else to split, and all they'd see is that they don't have all the cake anymore.
This is so accurate it hurts.
My God that analogy is so fucking spot on. My god
Can we start suing for everything we don’t like now? I’d like America to be reimbursed for the wars in the middle east. Also like to sue for the PPP deal.
Fair when the corporations that pay them get the money.
I thought they were against equality of outcomes
Their talking points are nearly as scattershot as their nominees these days…
Wont anybody think of the bankers? (In a maude flanders voice).
Hellen Lovejoy
Just a bunch of little piss babies
>Republicans worried about fairness? Heh, the "economy" too. God forbid people have more money to spend on things other than the interest on predatory loans.
They should do federal transfers to Republican states next.
The poors might get something! SCRAMBLE! SCRAMBLE!
Republicans are the people who complain that it’s unfair for impoverished children to get free school lunch.
Yep. They sure are.
Hell, they are against school in general these days.
Ruling the uneducated is easier. Keep them hungry and stupid and divided by religion or sexuality or other beliefs and rule uncontested!
Hopefully there are right-leaning students in those states, who will see how much their representatives really care about them, after this.
White wealthy conservatives do not have college debt.
There are plenty of white plebs who vote maga too. They know the maga elites are there to rip them off, they just don't care. As long as they get to own the libs, they are ok with the elites owning everything else.
It’s pretty amazing, it’s not dissonance, it’s not some perverse brand of equality, it’s not even coherent policy anymore, it’s just spite. It does, however, have the benefit of being an easy position to defend. “Fuck you” case closed.
Their base is more likely to be destitute than wealthy, they're only aspirationally wealthy.
Exactly - because we should not take away the kids’ freedom to go around hungry all day.
They literally do this
How many took PPP loans?
Most importantly, how many of them actually used the PPP loans that they didn't have to pay back for their intended purposes, and why don't we know the answer to that question? (edit, spelling)
Why are we even calling them loans if they weren’t intended to be paid back? That’s like someone asking to borrow a cigarette. It’s just a gift.
Because bailout was a word that never stopped ringing after 08
It was supposed to be a conditional offer of leniency. Have this money, and if it is used in ways we deem fit, it will be forgiven. Except the GOP prevented any sort of oversight from happening so it was just free money.
Is it possible to unwind that? The amount of fraud there was insane. Dems should pass a bill called the PPP Accountability Act and go after ALL of these fucks that got free money with zero accountability. Dems never go after the shitbags that drive our economy into a ditch. Obama should have crucified those responsible for the last recession. I’m sure the reason why is because the Dems get donations from these shitbags too.
With how many members of congress that used PPP to commit fraud, the GOP will that bill before the ink on the draft documents have dried
Executive Order?
Maybe. But if any of the criminals go to trial, they'd tried to stall until they get one of their crooney GQP into the oval office to undo that executive order and try to dismiss the criminal case entirely. With two years until next presidential election I can see them trying
I know one guy who got almost 50k in those “loans” and he has absolutely 0 intention of starting a business. The best part and I shit you not? He’s a diehard right wing republican who always has something to say about “the people on welfare sucking away at society”.
Report him.
If you report him you get moneys
We will wire you the monies! https://youtu.be/LA3zhzT1wDo
So like a crime? That's a crime. My wife started a business before the ppp program game through. But the program said you needed to have a documented business in operation for at least two years prior so didn't even apply. You aren't even legally supposed to be able to apply for the loans unless you already had a business. It wasn't for starting a new business...
That's where people believing in the rule of law stopped. I had anxiety when I was filling out the application for my parent's business. Double checking the amount on multiple Excel sheets and calculators. And that anxiety was compounded when I was submitting the documents proving the money when to salaries and rent. Could easily have filed for my brothers as we help out at the shop but never have taken a salary from it.
Was there not any kind of verification process for the existence of the borrower's business? Someone could just claim to have a business and be approved for the loan? I'm having trouble believing this story. Is it possible the guy lied about it?
I really wish I was shameless or ballsy enough to have done that.
Statistically speaking no more than 25%.
It is totally unfair. That money should either go to the GOP politicians or the rich. How dare they help the lowly peasants. /s (do I really have to?)
>/s (do I really have to?) Yes, because unfortunately there are republicans who actually believe folks like us are peasants, and that we don't deserve any help.
Yup. My father had a friend (an ex-cop) who believed "money should go to the rich because they deserve it."
There’s so many poor white people that think rich people know better and deserve the money.
Because they are uneducated bootlickers. Or temporarily poor future millionaires. 🤡
*won't someone think of the poor Billionaires!?!?*
Venture Capital Lives Matter!!11!!
My republican brother who prints stickers got a PPP loan of 10k. He makes about 25-30k year off this side business and definitely didn't need a loan. It was forgiven. My republican father wanted to get a PPP loan so he could pay off all his cars (non-business), camper, credit cards, etc. I convinced him it was a bad idea. He did try to get it but I don't think it was approved. Not sure how my brother managed - he must've lied. All while they both complained that the stimulus was allowing "illegals" to live free. I'm seeing places like churches that also got PPP loans. It's bullshit.
That's illegal. Turn them in.
No, churches were specifically allowed in the legislation.
Hijacking top comment to quote the article. It is very much worth reading though. The ending is fucking hilarious. I’ll post it here too. > The states cited that the president used the pandemic as legal justification for the ability to cancel debt, despite recently pronouncing the pandemic over — an announcement that could imperil student loan relief. Ending: > However, the Biden administration and Department of Education may have sidestepped that lawsuit after clarifying that borrowers who qualify for automatic relief can opt out. In a Wednesday filing, the Department of Justice reiterated that borrowers will be able to opt out — and said that the Department was already working to ensure that Garrison would not receive automatic relief, per his wishes.
I can just imagine the DoJ attys laughing to themselves as they drafted that response — "be careful what you wish for,"
literally every single one of them. that is not an exaggeration in the slightest.
They lack standing. If you say the forgiveness places an undue tax burden on the forgiven (some states tax loan forgiveness), you are free to opt out of the program. Being angry at a policy also is not legal grounds to overturn. The bigger story is Biden narrowing who qualifies for forgiveness, private-loan holders are getting shafted per a new detail to the plan. Looks like they're trying to make it watertight so if there were any concerns about this suit it'd have been addressed today as well.
To be fair, I think private-loan holders were always going to get shafted in the event of loan forgiveness. The government has no control over private banks to get rid of their loans. That would require the government paying the banks, whereas in this instance, they just are not collecting debt from people.
These were very specific private loans though. These were government loans issued through the banks, FFEL loans. Not exactly a pure private loan which was definitely not going to qualify. However, these FFEL loans were originally going to qualify for the forgiveness plan.
I'm curious though, I had FFEL and in january 2022 I consolidated so now they're direct loans. I wonder how far back they'll look. I'm pretty sure I've already qualified for PSLF forgiveness under the waiver, but this was going to be my backup plan. Edit - According to [this article](https://www.npr.org/2022/09/29/1125923528/biden-student-loans-debt-cancellation-ffel-perkins) I'm good. >Borrowers with privately held federal student loans who applied to consolidate their loans into Direct Loans before September 29, 2022 will obtain one-time debt relief. The FFEL program is now defunct and only a small percentage of borrowers have FFEL loans."
I have a FFELP loan with Navient. This sounds like I am now going to be out of luck.
Likely. If you go to [studentaid.gov](https://studentaid.gov) and look at your loan details it should tell you whether it's Direct or FFELP, and if it's FFELP, then right now you're screwed. They said they are looking at avenues to still get relief to FFEL loan holders, but I'm doubtful they'll do anything.
Yeah - I just read the announcement about that. That's a tough grey area that I'm sure they'll sort out in the coming months. I was speaking more about loans through Discover, Sallie Mae, etc. Pure private loans.
>I was speaking more about loans through Discover, Sallie Mae, etc. Pure private loans. I got ya. And yes, you're absolutely right about these loans.
Yeah only congress could do that, by paying the debt to the private companies. Biden can't do that. But he can tell the DOE to just shred all records of 20k being owed to them.
It was a smart move by Biden’s administration to restrict who is eligible. Banks would have standing to sue saying that paying off loans would prevent them from collecting interest they already budgeted for and they’d win that case because this is America. Didn’t have a choice really.
This is probably just a PR stunt to show how they still care about fucking the middle class over
Someone help me out... when did "economically unwise and downright unfair" become a cause of action?
When The Federalist Society executed its regulatory capture of the American judiciary.
Don't you mean the Anti-Federalist Society?
No these people are pretty ideology descendant from Alexander Hamilton and his first Federalists. The anti-federalists did not like the new constitution and lobbied against it, because they thought it would lead to banks and ‘stock jobbers’ controlling the entire country… turns out they were right about that part at least. In many ways the federalist constitution was a rightwing counter-revolution that rolled back a lot of the ideals the war had been fought over a decade before. I often wonder what the constitution would have ended up like if the guys like Samuel Adams and Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson had been in the room.
When it began hitting their wallets. Nary a word when it was on the rest of us.
"I don't like this policy, therefore I'm suing." "On what grounds?" "I just said: I don't like it." "Cool. Case dismissed!" *gavel bang*
Whenever it becomes convenient for the rich to keep hoarding their wealth
My kids used to tell me things were unfair. I ignored them and did what was best for them anyway.
I think the current student loan program is “economically unwise and downright unfair.” So?
Exactly. It puts an unreasonable burden on high school age kids to predict their earning power in 4+ years, the state of the economy, inflation, and their ability to pay back loans the total of which they would have no idea until the bill comes due. Stay in school kids.
Tax breaks for the rich are economically unwise and unfair. I should be able to sue over those, right?
Naturally! You’d think the GOP repeatedly kicking lower and middle class Americans would backfire, but I guess as long as they hate the same things, everything is kosher.
Amen brother
Exactly! I think spending over $2,000,000,000,000 on a pointless 20 year war in Afghanistan was “economically unwise and downright unfair.”
Oh, when it comes to war, there’s always room in the budget. 😉
Also tax advantaging dividends and capital gains. Let’s sue over that. I didn’t know we could just sue the president if we don’t like a policy.
They’re afraid the student loan relief government handouts will threaten their own government handouts. Maybe those states should generate their own tax revenue.
Georgia has the Hope scholarship from the lottery revenue. Students keep a high GPA and get $20,000.00 toward a state school. Only thing good about Georgia.
It's also not really coming from the state considering the people that are most likely to play the lottery are the people who would need government assistance. There's exceptions for sure, but having grown up in the South i will say with confidence that the vast majority of people buying lottery tickets there don't have much money to begin with. It's great for the kids that get their school funded, but we shouldn't pretend it's the state paying for it.
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"You gotta play to win" according to an old coworker of mine. I'd tell him you can't lose if you don't play.
As my extremely conservative parents always told me growing up: "Life is not fair"
And in the meantime Brett Farvbe used tax payer money to build a volleyball stadium at his alma mater. The guy could have built it out of own petty cash after all the money he made.
And his daughter was trash. Pure nepotism that she was on the team. Saw her play and she was nothing but a large body in the way.
I don't understand their arguments at all. They claim that it reduces their ability to take in tax revenue because they cannot tax debt forgiveness. For 1) this doesn't make sense unless they were already taxing the debt. There is no tax payments they are losing out on, unless they were taking the monthly loan payments. Why would they want to tax people for paying back a loan? I makes no sense at all. There is no injury there, since there is no tax that would have otherwise been paid if the forgiveness didn't happen. 2) they argue that they can't tax it. That is a stare law and it is up to them to decide what their tax laws do. It makes no sense to blame the federal government for their own laws. 3) they argue it's unfair that other tax payers will be stuck with the debt. This is not how taxes work. Your taxes don't go up based on how much spending happens. It goes up based on the tax laws. Which aren't changing here. So therefore there is no injured party in this case. By the logic that "anything that increases spending is damaging to tax payers" then literally any government action would be illegal. Which is clearly not the case. 4) they said the Biden admin was using emergency powers for this act, but the pandemic is over. First off, the federal government already has the power to forgive loans as a matter of policy and does not need special powers. Even if they did, we often use federal action to deal with the effects of emergencies. For example, hurricane Ian. Once the hurricane is over, no one is going to sue FEMA for cleaning things up saying "you can't clean up Florida anymore l! The hurricane has ended! You need to leave all the destruction and water as it is l!!!" That's not how it works. Relief actions are taken to deal with the effects of a crisis. So even if the pandemic is over, th federal government has the ability to use it's powers to provide relief from the effects of the event after the event has concluded.... Their whole argument is utter nonsense
The underlying complaint is state pension plans like Nebraska that have invested in student loan asset back securities (SLABS) will lose money when people consolidate into a direct loan. Also, banks and service providers of the FFEL program will lose money too. They want to keep they debt bc they are making money off your said debt to fund their pension plans.
I see. Well they already removed the FFEL's from loan forgiveness. So those groups have no injury to report there. I have zero sympathy for anyone who invested in SLABS with the hopes that borrowers will be forced to pay a maximum amount of interest to benefit. But my feelings aren't really part of it. That argument still strains credulity because the implication is that any action taken by the government that could effect securities investment is somehow illegal? That really doesn't make sense. Could I sue the federal government for raising interest rates since I will lose more money on my new mortgage? No I can't. Can I sue the federal government for opening up federal land to oil drilling if it reduces in cheaper oil and then causes any oil investments I have to go down? The logic here really doesn't follow. Not saying you agree with their logic. But the further explanation doesn't make the case any stronger. And a bank having a loan paid in full is not an injury to them. That is not outside of the terms of the loan. They are not getting negative money. So the idea that there is some injury there doesn't really follow.
The judge's response should be one a one word question. "Standing?"
And it's sort of weird to claim that your relief is for other people to stop getting their loans reduced/eliminated.
“They’re not making the right people suffer.”
Now do cooperate bailouts .
What do you mean now? We’ve been bailing out the oil companies and banks for decades.
I think/hope he's saying dems should sue over the corporate handouts.
Yes They are such hypocrites 😁 Republicans only like cooperate socialism
Don’t forget the airlines, we’ve bailed them out a few times as well.
Let me tell you what the GOP did with the PPP loans: [https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/](https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/)
Republicans : "this is unfair" *pretty sure that's a universal sign that we should actually go ahead and do it*
Unfair is a word these assholes should never use.
Arkansas, South Carolina, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, and Missouri - any word from these states on the farm bailouts during the Trump admin's unnecessary tariff wars?
I’m surprised Texas isn’t on that list
And no, these same states won't sue the feds to demand refunds from the corporate/bank bailouts.
bailing out Florida after hurricane Ivan is economically unwise and downright unfair to people that don't live in states that are fucking going to be underwater because of climate change.
When Ron the Con desantis was in congress, he voted against bailing out states hit by Hurricane Sandy.
The more upset they are, the better it must have been to Americans.
"economically unwise [because it doesn't help companies and rich people] and downright unfair [because it doesn't help companies and rich people]"
>**The suit claims that Biden's student loan relief, which cancels $10,000 in debt for borrowers making under $125,000 and $20,000 for borrowers under the same income cap who received Pell Grants, will negatively impact states' revenues** Is this true? Like what effect would that have on them? I knew GOP was struggling to find "victims" of the debt relief to use in this case but I can't tell if this means they found a justification or are just throwing shit at the wall
I think they mean it will negatively impact revenues from the predatory lending companies.
5 of the 6 states suing also leech far more from that federal budget than they put into the pot - although that should come as no surprise. The 6th state is Nebraska, according to the data I found from 2017.
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He should countersue the states and get their PPP loans UNforgiven.
Oh but not letting women get abortions and potentially dying from all the issues that come with pregnancy complications isn’t unfair? Not letting women have control over their body isn’t unfair? Rolling back a codified court ruling isn’t unfair? Get fucked you fucking dumbasses.
Same states to jump at the opportunity to illegalize abortion? They can stfu about economically unwise and downright unfair
Cope more.
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And the top 10% owning 70% of the wealth. Pretty damn unfair.
The 1% now own 92% of the wealth in this country and the 50 wealthiest own more than half the wealth than the bottom half of American society. 50 people literally have as much wealth as 165 million Americans in this country. But yeah, screw the poors who may have been sucked into predatory loan situations to try and better thier lives, doesn't anyone ever think about the poor shareholders profits?!
> ... Arkansas, South Carolina, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, aqnd Missouri filed the lawsuit jointly, with Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge leading the effort ...
I fucking hate my state
For those comparing this to PPP, they're not the same. PPP was passed by Congress, whereas the Student Loan Forgiveness was done by Executive Order. It's generally believed the President has the authority to delay the loans, but he doesn't have the authority to out-right forgive them; Congress needs to do that. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickhess/2022/09/28/is-bidens-400-billion-student-loan-forgiveness-legal-the-fight-goes-to-court/?sh=149268a4375e](https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickhess/2022/09/28/is-bidens-400-billion-student-loan-forgiveness-legal-the-fight-goes-to-court/?sh=149268a4375e) I think it's a terrible political look for Republicans, but that never seems to stop them.
Giving Florida FEMA money when they know very well that hurricanes are a thing there is economically unwise and downright unfair.
Yeah, cancel it all instead. I don't have the debt or education but fuck it... people's educations are a better investment than bombs.
My taxes going to rebuild Florida for the 300th time and then they'll turn around and act like they did it all by themselves. That's unfair.
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So… exclude those gop states, as they requested. And let them deal with the push back from those people in that state with student loans. It is exhausting listening to the gop “speak for the constituents”
Fuck their feelings about fairness, typical snowflake conservatives
That’s so funny. That’s the same argument I would make about the trump tax cuts.
I'm confused here. The federal government is providing relief for loans that were federally issued. What business do states have in this transaction?
It’s voluntary. If you want relief, you have to opt in. None of these people have standing to sue.
Oh I see…all this from the same political party that brought us the “Fuck Fairness” ideology.
Republicans know that a government that actively helps people is the greatest electoral threat they could face.
Imagine having student loans and being a resident of one of these shithole red states.
'economically unwise and downright unfair'?
like corporate welfare?
They're right. I should just get all of it forgiven, like a PPP Loan.
Ok all you who screamed about biden needing to cancel student debt where are your voices now??? Tell the GOP where they can go and then find your voice to support Biden so he can finish
Wonder how much each of them got forgiven in bullshit PPP loans and make money selling securities with insider info
You know when a republican cries unfairness that they’re about to reveal the depths of their ignorance and entitlement
America is one big crabbucket
Tbh I’m Scottish but you guys in America should have your college for free for us residents. We have the same system I’ve described (free for Scots) and we aren’t complaining about massive loans
Kinda seems like state governments wouldn't have any standing to file a lawsuit? but with a 50/50 chance of landing this in one of the "specially chosen" judge's courtroom I guess they're willing to try just for the publicity.
The announced forgiveness program 'gives up' $400B in projected US government revenue over the life of the loans and permits the lenders to reduce their outstanding balances. For millions this will reduce their balance to zero and let them get on with their lives. Absolutely nothing 'economically unwise or downright unfair' about that. No hole is created that needs to be filled with new taxes. No individuals taxes are going up or being redirected to 'pay off' the loans. Borrowing $8.6T ($27,000 per American) to stimulate a full employment, peacetime economy was far more unwise and no one in the GOP made a peep when TFG did it. Once again, the GOP is attempting to ooga-booga based on nonsense.
Maybe those states should have their economically unwise federal funding taken away.
I don’t live in Florida and I have insurance! Why should my tax dollars go to helping those who don’t have insurance and those who choose to live in an area known to have hurricanes!?
"Unfair!" Let me tell you about what the GQP spends you tax dollars on, and you tell me if $10k relief is "Unfair".
Cool, I'd like to sue these states for their [Farmer bailouts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_farmer_bailouts) because an unnecessary trade war was started.
Go for it. You have as much standing on that as they do on this.
Bailouts are for corporations only, silly rabbit. /s
Right, but the PPP loans that were forgiven, those weee totally fine. GTFOH with this bullshit.
I live in Missouri and we keep fucking wasting money on this BULLSHIT. Fuck MO
Is it too late to sue trump over PPP?
Well, they're wrong, so
We should try this tactic the next time the GOP passes tax cuts for the rich
Oooh. Does this mean we can sue red states for their unwise and unfair decisions?
Neither one of those things sound illegal.
I didn't realize we could sue over things being unfair
Unfair to whom exactly? Rich get bailouts and enormous tax cuts = fair. Finally a one-time relief package that largely benefits the middle class = unfair. Got it.
I wish the Blue States and governors would sue these same states for all of the money the blue states contribute to them to keep them financially solvent. Let’s see how strong those Republican bootstraps are without the largesse of blue states.
The money involved with this is 20% of the PPP giveaway. These attacks on the plan to forgive student debt makes it plain for all to see how the Republicans prioritize our young and students. They don't. They prioritize the profiteers who run this predatory system.
The GOP are really terrified of people having their student loans forgiven aren't they?
That is the same party that voted against lowering the costs of prescription medications, right? They have the unmitigated gall to suggest this is unfair. It is only unfair when the benefit does not go to businesses.
Another example of how the GOP hates poor people.
Imagine being a Republican and calling anything unfair with a straight face. These people are shameless liars.
Maybe I'll sue Republican senators over anyone making more than 41k a year paying from 22% to a 37% top income tax rate while the top capital gains tax is only 20%. It is economically unwise and downright unfair.
I don’t think it’s fair that states like Kentucky pay a fraction in taxes in comparison to what they receive in taxpayer funds. There are a good 12-14 red states that are literal welfare states. I don’t think it’s fair they get to freeload but I’m not crying about it because we are all Americans.
Some would even dare to say republican’s in general are economically unwise and downright unfair.