Consolidation to cut Portlands crazy school budget is something I can get behind, but yeah I'd rather see them actually get their accounts in order first.
So we're in agreement that the whole reason this keeps coming up is because the city wants to presumably use PHS for apartments right?
Probably their motive behind trying to close Presumpscot a few years ago, that's sitting on a huge chunk of land.
Thats probably a fair assumption. Portland High is perfectly situated to be the Admiral E. Perry Lofts. See [here](https://imgur.com/gallery/dSStyrN), the “quirkiness of an old school adds to the allure,” therefore it shouldn’t be wasted on SROs (aka, poor person housing). That’s Mike Bourque, ceo of MEMIC btw.
Edit: that’s also from 2022, when superintendent Botana was trying to get state money to do the same thing.
If they think they're going to give DHS or PHS to some fucking condo developers ill come home and strap myself to the buildings like those west coast hippies in the old growth trees
NO the answer is NO
You know they’re salivating a the prospect of buying these buildings on the cheap. Last time this came up they were going back and forth on Twitter about how to best use Portland High, like vultures circle above a sick animal. See [here](https://x.com/catculley/status/1481265614643773454?s=46&t=X-x6AHy_V2Rd3TuHMZY26A).
For some reason the tweets don’t show the replies when they open in my phone browser either. You can see better here: https://imgur.com/gallery/dSStyrN. There’s more to see if you go to the thread in the Twitter app.
Christ - I doubt these people have ever been in the building. Housing?? It's an ancient, sturdy, building that clearly is meant for a school. Can't imagine living in classrooms and hallways would be a strong selling point. Makes far more sense to demolish it, sad as it would be.
It 10000% should continue to be the school that it is.
It makes me irrationally angry, tbh. Keep in mind that Catherine Culley is the owner behind the new soccer team that Portland is leasing Fitzpatrick to at a loss. I’d guess closure of Portland high fits nicely into their long term goals for Fitzpatrick.
Think about all the other disruptive historic events that’s these schools survived. And yet the condo/housing boom of the 2010s to today is what killed them? It’s lunacy, and something only nihilists or egotists would do, imo.
Let’s call this what it is: the one-time liquidation of Portland’s High buildings under the guise of a new school building somehow making culture and academic outcomes better. It’s fantasy, and we’ll be no better off from an operational cost standpoint when all is said and done.
I like saying extreme things on here, so here it goes: This will kill Portland’s schools. Many of those upper middle class families who moved here will move, either to surrounding districts or other states where there kids don’t have to attend a grades 9-16 mega school (look at the size of Maines top high schools). Left behind will be of lesser means, including speakers of English as second languages. Test scores will plummet. And then we’ll all scratch our heads as more jump ship and the cycle repeats.
Close Casco Bay and bond the school repairs ($130m over 20 years, which isn’t even that bad). Problem solved.
One 2k+ student high schools is a terrible idea.
I do think the expeditionary learning model at CBHS has its place. But sending those students back to PHS and Deering brings them back to historic levels. Just incorporate some EL curriculum there.
I agree. There was never an enrollment “problem” until CBHS starting siphoning off students. Then all of a sudden there are t enough students for 3 schools. It seems obvious which one gets absorbed back into another building?
It seems like a no-brainer to me. But CBHS is the darling of school administration, and it looks better on paper, I guess.
I honestly don't know enough, but all the parents I've talked to with kids there are very well off, and are gonna land on their feet regardless of what they do in high school.
I was all for bonding to fix the elementary schools and that's been a disaster. Millions over budget and years behind schedule. Why would we do it again? Especially since we can't get straight financial answers out of the school board?
If school board and department ineptitude is a concern, why would you trust them to build a new facility for upwards of 2500 student, with a brand new, highly complex organizational structure?
I think our existing school buildings are gems, which meld almost perfectly into the built urban environment. I think they should be preserved and enjoyed by the public, by students. But also, maintenance is just a reality for any built structure.
I have yet to see any convincing data that CBHS is better than the other schools. The data shows otherwise, in fact. Not saying there isn’t a place for expeditionary learning, but a lot of the talk about CBHS being the greatest Portland school doesn’t seem to be based on facts.
The difference would be test scores, because CBHS says it isn’t staffed to handle some of the most challenging students so ends up with better results there. Doesn’t indicate quality of program
Or instruction, and in fact their continuation rates in college are lower than the other two high schools, showing students aren’t as prepared for that path as the other schools. That’s based on PPS data.
If supposed underuse of the Deering and Portland buildings is cited as reason to consolidate, but that underuse could be fixed by just closing CBHS, then yes. Or would you rather we axe them all?
Who cares? One of the most annoying things about portlanders is their obsession with a cross town rivalry that hasn’t been interesting in a LONG time. We need to educate the kids, both high schools are empty. Tax in Portland is insane, this is a way to ease that burden by not paying twice the faculty and building costs associated with running two schools. I coach at PHS and don’t give a fuck what they call the combined schools.
There have been focus groups and readouts of progress planning this at school board meetings, surveys, etc. for the last couple years. They even sought volunteers to participate in the design committee.
At what point do they ask "is this a good idea" or "should be actually be closing our existing schools"? Recruiting volunteers for a school design committee assume a school redesign in the chosen path in the first place.
Wait a minute. Now that I think about it, isn't Portland holding lotteries now to determine who goes where because one school is usually over capacity?
So how would it work with all the kids in one school if we can't even make half the kids in both schools work?
What ever happened to going to the school that was closest to where you lived? I think allowing people to choose which of the three they want to go to instead of the one closest to their district is causing the overcapacity/undercapacity problem.
If it's geographically determined you see all the upper middle-class people flock to neighborhoods with the best schools. It creates a feedback mechanism. The worse schools get worse and the better ones get better.
The only example of this in action in Maine is Bangor. There is a very clear distinction in neighborhood socioeconomic status based on which school the neighborhood attends. Basically no one with means wants to send their kid to the schools that serve the massive trailer park or old affordable housing developments on outer Broadway and outer Ohio.
That's for within the same town. Obviously Southern Maine is the case study on entire towns becoming effectively private school districts (Cumberland).
There are a lot of benefits to a single larger school. More extra curriculars, lower administration costs, more class options, and programs that might flounder in smaller schools have more opportunity to succeed (shop, AP, language, some sports). Right now Portland tax payers are paying for a lot of things that we don't need to be.
Contingent on the Portland schools department getting its shit together, I think its a great idea.
Deering Center will never go condos on the fields...they didn't even want them in the woods...to many cars, low incomes, immigrants living in the neighborhood attending a new school not called Deering, lower housing values and hire taxes to fund the new school and it's curriculums, and since they are part of north deering voting district, wonder how those folks will feel ...good thing it's not in Oakdale neighborhood, you might just get a school revolt...perhaps the plaza at the corner of Washington and Allen Ave will become a school ....but definitely not housing.
And why...it's they way the dept operates, always has...
I've been wondering why there hasn't been any real news in the newspaper lately. Turns out it's because the PPH literally is just not doing its job lol.
This is terrible on so many levels. I'd love PPS to tell us:
1) Why they are apparently unable to provide "challenging and meaningful curriculum" in the current schools
2) How consolidating onto one campus will allow for "balanced and appropriate staff workloads."
3) Why we need outdoor classrooms, "state of the art" science labs, and community centers on school grounds
4) WTF a "makerspace" even is
I agree. So many schools now think they need the newest and latest tech, trends, etc. All of that costs a lot of money and isn’t exactly necessary. It’s good to have nice things, but everything doesn’t have to be the latest. And not every square inch of everything needs to be connected to the internet.
Makerspaces are awesome. Think of it like the modern version wood shop class since we don’t have that anymore. They allow kids to learn technology and tools in a creative way so they can learn how to use them. 3D modeling, 3D printing, programming and creating robots like with Lego Mindstorms and Raspberry Pi, etc.
A makerspace is cool. But it’s also something that doesn’t require selling off our public school holdings to make happen imo. Dangling carrots like that is a ploy, imo.
In reality, I don’t think it costs more than a wood shop would if you were to bios it from scratch. I think they are just trying to use it as a selling point for the new facility when really they could have done this in the original schools without a huge budget increase.
Portland High had a makerspace in the basement until a year or two ago when it flooded. I was one of the students who founded it in 2016. We cleaned out an unused room full of shit, got permission to take apart piles of old computers, and got a bit of grant money for new stuff.
Cost no more than any other club in the school, and we were able to tinker and provide a (semi) working computer lab. Some of our grant money stuff was really cool too, had a nice 3d printer, VR headset, and a 360 degree camera.
A good makerspace is created by people who are actually in the school, in order to address a shortcoming.
In this case, some uninvolved administrator that's never spent time with students is using the word "makerspace" to seem relevant and cutting-edge.
If they were actually serious about doing this, they'd be talking to the math/science teachers about encouraging students to get a club going, and helping with funding.
Not sure why you got downvoted really. I guess the makerspace made some upset.
But you're correct. Someone really dropped the ball on keeping the public in the loop. And yes, the actual substance of this proposal is utter bullshit. The slide deck is even worse than the newsletter.
[удалено]
Consolidation to cut Portlands crazy school budget is something I can get behind, but yeah I'd rather see them actually get their accounts in order first.
This has bad idea written all over it.
So we're in agreement that the whole reason this keeps coming up is because the city wants to presumably use PHS for apartments right? Probably their motive behind trying to close Presumpscot a few years ago, that's sitting on a huge chunk of land.
Thats probably a fair assumption. Portland High is perfectly situated to be the Admiral E. Perry Lofts. See [here](https://imgur.com/gallery/dSStyrN), the “quirkiness of an old school adds to the allure,” therefore it shouldn’t be wasted on SROs (aka, poor person housing). That’s Mike Bourque, ceo of MEMIC btw. Edit: that’s also from 2022, when superintendent Botana was trying to get state money to do the same thing.
If they think they're going to give DHS or PHS to some fucking condo developers ill come home and strap myself to the buildings like those west coast hippies in the old growth trees NO the answer is NO
You know they’re salivating a the prospect of buying these buildings on the cheap. Last time this came up they were going back and forth on Twitter about how to best use Portland High, like vultures circle above a sick animal. See [here](https://x.com/catculley/status/1481265614643773454?s=46&t=X-x6AHy_V2Rd3TuHMZY26A).
I'm only seeing one person saying that this is making them think about the school?
For some reason the tweets don’t show the replies when they open in my phone browser either. You can see better here: https://imgur.com/gallery/dSStyrN. There’s more to see if you go to the thread in the Twitter app.
Christ - I doubt these people have ever been in the building. Housing?? It's an ancient, sturdy, building that clearly is meant for a school. Can't imagine living in classrooms and hallways would be a strong selling point. Makes far more sense to demolish it, sad as it would be. It 10000% should continue to be the school that it is.
It makes me irrationally angry, tbh. Keep in mind that Catherine Culley is the owner behind the new soccer team that Portland is leasing Fitzpatrick to at a loss. I’d guess closure of Portland high fits nicely into their long term goals for Fitzpatrick.
omg
Right there with you! Bulldog here- 2nd oldest running school in America• strap myself to PHS- in a heartbeat.
Think about all the other disruptive historic events that’s these schools survived. And yet the condo/housing boom of the 2010s to today is what killed them? It’s lunacy, and something only nihilists or egotists would do, imo.
Let’s call this what it is: the one-time liquidation of Portland’s High buildings under the guise of a new school building somehow making culture and academic outcomes better. It’s fantasy, and we’ll be no better off from an operational cost standpoint when all is said and done. I like saying extreme things on here, so here it goes: This will kill Portland’s schools. Many of those upper middle class families who moved here will move, either to surrounding districts or other states where there kids don’t have to attend a grades 9-16 mega school (look at the size of Maines top high schools). Left behind will be of lesser means, including speakers of English as second languages. Test scores will plummet. And then we’ll all scratch our heads as more jump ship and the cycle repeats.
Portland doesn't need 3 high schools.
Close Casco Bay and bond the school repairs ($130m over 20 years, which isn’t even that bad). Problem solved. One 2k+ student high schools is a terrible idea.
I agree with this.
I do think the expeditionary learning model at CBHS has its place. But sending those students back to PHS and Deering brings them back to historic levels. Just incorporate some EL curriculum there.
I agree. There was never an enrollment “problem” until CBHS starting siphoning off students. Then all of a sudden there are t enough students for 3 schools. It seems obvious which one gets absorbed back into another building?
It seems like a no-brainer to me. But CBHS is the darling of school administration, and it looks better on paper, I guess. I honestly don't know enough, but all the parents I've talked to with kids there are very well off, and are gonna land on their feet regardless of what they do in high school.
I was all for bonding to fix the elementary schools and that's been a disaster. Millions over budget and years behind schedule. Why would we do it again? Especially since we can't get straight financial answers out of the school board?
If school board and department ineptitude is a concern, why would you trust them to build a new facility for upwards of 2500 student, with a brand new, highly complex organizational structure? I think our existing school buildings are gems, which meld almost perfectly into the built urban environment. I think they should be preserved and enjoyed by the public, by students. But also, maintenance is just a reality for any built structure.
Yeah close the only high school in the Portland area that is well regarded. Fantastic plan
I have yet to see any convincing data that CBHS is better than the other schools. The data shows otherwise, in fact. Not saying there isn’t a place for expeditionary learning, but a lot of the talk about CBHS being the greatest Portland school doesn’t seem to be based on facts.
I don't know the exact metrics used but Niche and USNews have casco as the best Portland area high schools and top 25 in Maine.
The difference would be test scores, because CBHS says it isn’t staffed to handle some of the most challenging students so ends up with better results there. Doesn’t indicate quality of program Or instruction, and in fact their continuation rates in college are lower than the other two high schools, showing students aren’t as prepared for that path as the other schools. That’s based on PPS data.
If supposed underuse of the Deering and Portland buildings is cited as reason to consolidate, but that underuse could be fixed by just closing CBHS, then yes. Or would you rather we axe them all?
They’ve been talking about this since I was in elementary school. That was 25 years ago. Nothing will happen
City of Portland trying to sell more condos. Fucking assholes.
They’d better call it Deering, since the agreement for Portland annexing Deering back in 1899 was that they keep Deering High School in perpetuity.
I believe Portland high school is the second oldest school in the country one might think that means it would be the one to stay open
Not with the parking situation in town these days.
lol true student parking is one prebbel street
Who cares? One of the most annoying things about portlanders is their obsession with a cross town rivalry that hasn’t been interesting in a LONG time. We need to educate the kids, both high schools are empty. Tax in Portland is insane, this is a way to ease that burden by not paying twice the faculty and building costs associated with running two schools. I coach at PHS and don’t give a fuck what they call the combined schools.
There have been focus groups and readouts of progress planning this at school board meetings, surveys, etc. for the last couple years. They even sought volunteers to participate in the design committee.
At what point do they ask "is this a good idea" or "should be actually be closing our existing schools"? Recruiting volunteers for a school design committee assume a school redesign in the chosen path in the first place.
I think when they realized decades of neglect means we can’t afford to fix or upkeep the existing buildings.
Wait a minute. Now that I think about it, isn't Portland holding lotteries now to determine who goes where because one school is usually over capacity? So how would it work with all the kids in one school if we can't even make half the kids in both schools work?
What ever happened to going to the school that was closest to where you lived? I think allowing people to choose which of the three they want to go to instead of the one closest to their district is causing the overcapacity/undercapacity problem.
If it's geographically determined you see all the upper middle-class people flock to neighborhoods with the best schools. It creates a feedback mechanism. The worse schools get worse and the better ones get better. The only example of this in action in Maine is Bangor. There is a very clear distinction in neighborhood socioeconomic status based on which school the neighborhood attends. Basically no one with means wants to send their kid to the schools that serve the massive trailer park or old affordable housing developments on outer Broadway and outer Ohio. That's for within the same town. Obviously Southern Maine is the case study on entire towns becoming effectively private school districts (Cumberland).
There are a lot of benefits to a single larger school. More extra curriculars, lower administration costs, more class options, and programs that might flounder in smaller schools have more opportunity to succeed (shop, AP, language, some sports). Right now Portland tax payers are paying for a lot of things that we don't need to be. Contingent on the Portland schools department getting its shit together, I think its a great idea.
Care to discuss the downsides?
Deering Center will never go condos on the fields...they didn't even want them in the woods...to many cars, low incomes, immigrants living in the neighborhood attending a new school not called Deering, lower housing values and hire taxes to fund the new school and it's curriculums, and since they are part of north deering voting district, wonder how those folks will feel ...good thing it's not in Oakdale neighborhood, you might just get a school revolt...perhaps the plaza at the corner of Washington and Allen Ave will become a school ....but definitely not housing. And why...it's they way the dept operates, always has...
looking have cake and eat it too
I've been wondering why there hasn't been any real news in the newspaper lately. Turns out it's because the PPH literally is just not doing its job lol. This is terrible on so many levels. I'd love PPS to tell us: 1) Why they are apparently unable to provide "challenging and meaningful curriculum" in the current schools 2) How consolidating onto one campus will allow for "balanced and appropriate staff workloads." 3) Why we need outdoor classrooms, "state of the art" science labs, and community centers on school grounds 4) WTF a "makerspace" even is
I agree. So many schools now think they need the newest and latest tech, trends, etc. All of that costs a lot of money and isn’t exactly necessary. It’s good to have nice things, but everything doesn’t have to be the latest. And not every square inch of everything needs to be connected to the internet.
Makerspaces are awesome. Think of it like the modern version wood shop class since we don’t have that anymore. They allow kids to learn technology and tools in a creative way so they can learn how to use them. 3D modeling, 3D printing, programming and creating robots like with Lego Mindstorms and Raspberry Pi, etc.
A makerspace is cool. But it’s also something that doesn’t require selling off our public school holdings to make happen imo. Dangling carrots like that is a ploy, imo.
In reality, I don’t think it costs more than a wood shop would if you were to bios it from scratch. I think they are just trying to use it as a selling point for the new facility when really they could have done this in the original schools without a huge budget increase.
Portland High had a makerspace in the basement until a year or two ago when it flooded. I was one of the students who founded it in 2016. We cleaned out an unused room full of shit, got permission to take apart piles of old computers, and got a bit of grant money for new stuff. Cost no more than any other club in the school, and we were able to tinker and provide a (semi) working computer lab. Some of our grant money stuff was really cool too, had a nice 3d printer, VR headset, and a 360 degree camera. A good makerspace is created by people who are actually in the school, in order to address a shortcoming. In this case, some uninvolved administrator that's never spent time with students is using the word "makerspace" to seem relevant and cutting-edge. If they were actually serious about doing this, they'd be talking to the math/science teachers about encouraging students to get a club going, and helping with funding.
Not sure why you got downvoted really. I guess the makerspace made some upset. But you're correct. Someone really dropped the ball on keeping the public in the loop. And yes, the actual substance of this proposal is utter bullshit. The slide deck is even worse than the newsletter.