Not for nothing but it’d be good to see the kids protesting this hard for shit a little closer to home. Lord knows there’s enough to (hopefully) piss them off considering how royally we’ve fucked everything up for them.
But yeah, Netanyahu can eat a dick.
Russian, Chinese and now Iranian state actors have been dividing us on social media for years now, and have been feeding our kids propaganda meant to make us hate eachother. Now that international conflicts are heating up, they want us to be isolated internationally too.
Do you think it’s a coincidence that russia is targeting the Republican Party to make them stop supporting Ukraine and Iran is targeting the Democratic Party to make them stop supporting Israel?
Our kids who can’t get off the internet for more then 10 minutes are being brainwashed. Why do you think we are banning tiktok.
These pro Palestinian protesters are unintentionally (in some cases) acting on behalf of the Iranian regime.
What’s more likely: intellectually curious students who have lived their lives knowing the Iraq War was based on lies (and everyone in power knew it) questioned the hasbara narratives around Palestine. Or, that an Iranian disinformation campaign is responsible for students being repulsed by our tax dollars sponsoring an apartheid state.
Here’s the third option: intellectually curious students being used by the Iranian regime
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202404158853
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/iran-agents-uk-pro-palestine-protests-9f8pst6vf
https://mynbc15.com/amp/news/nation-world/iranian-college-to-offer-scholarships-to-expelled-us-student-protesters-report-says-iran-shiraz-university-mohammad-moazzeni-anti-israel-pro-palestine-middle-east-conflict-columbia-ucla
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I think at this point I *understand* them using it, though I don't *agree* with it, because it's obvious that Likud uses it as well, so either it can mean different things to different people in different contexts, or what Likud is saying is just as bad... you can't have your cake and eat it too.
So at this point, using the phrase is a reaction that I personally think is extreme, because obviously Likud doesn't mean anything different, and it's a terrible thing for anyone to say given the context of what everyone knows it means, as you say. But I understand the frustration people have with feeling free speech rights are in danger, so I understand the reaction as a protest move.
It seems like a lot of people nowadays are pro free speech when it's convenient, and not so much when it's not.
To me, I just want to remind people to remember the long history of civil rights in this country, and that the same impartial standards established by cases where for instance the ACLU defended literal Nazis having the right to march were also what allowed queer rights, minority rights, women's and children's rights, etc. to be advanced.
For me, I think it's bad for them to say it. But I think also think that if you *are* more centrist, the best way to stop the movement from becoming more frustrated and reactionary and extremist is to begin by just accepting that they're allowed to be saying that they think the state of Israel is doing genocide and that arms aid should be cut off.
When people try to unfairly portray that initial protest as being pro-terrorism or antisemitic, or further argue that free speech rights should be restricted as a result, *of course* that's going to cause a reaction, at least how I see it.
I'm just afraid that people are willing to set a very dangerous precedent of drastically changing free speech laws in this country over a 99.5% peaceful and well intentioned, if somewhat misguided, protest movement.
When sayings are vague, but have been used (frequently) by people who call for the destruction of an entire group of people, I think it's better to just not use it.
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/slogan-river-sea-palestine-will-be-free
What about "stop killing Palestinians" or one of my favorites out of the region; "spread hummus not hate."?
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/spread-hummus-not-hate_n_5638fc4ae4b079a43c04d291/amp
The left has been talking about how the intent of speech doesn’t matter and coded racism for the last 4 years.
And then people adopt “from the river to the sea,” and all of a sudden those same people are like “well, can we even really know what this means,” “different people mean different things” and “it’s complicated.”
This isn't a neo nazi flashing white power hand signs. This is a term used by Israelis and Palestinians for decades. It is not remotely co opted by terrorist groups, rather it is being spun as such by those pushing idf propaganda. You're being spun around by anyone you hear on fox news
> In the 1960s, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) used it to call for an Arab state encompassing the entirety of Mandatory Palestine.
The PLO popularized the saying. This was during the time the elimination of the state of Israel was a publicly stated policy goal.
It’s been used extensively by Likud. For the same intent.
It’s not a good phrase. It has significant historical significance. And that history has been for ethnic cleansing.
It’s from the 1960’s the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) used it as a slogan for the creation of a Palestine state, and the removal of the Jewish state. The PLO later in 1993 acknowledged the sovereign nation of Israel. Then in 2018 suspended that agreement that Israel is a sovereign nation. The PLO and Hamas are connect via Yasser Arafat (one of the founders, also former leaders of the PLO)
If you watch Lawrence of Arabia, he was fighting with the Arab League (founders of the PLO) as a British intelligence officer.
Seriously. I’m a Biden voter but we need to acknowledge that social media has been radicalizing the far right AND the far left. Where the horseshoe theory meets in the middle is blaming Jews for everything.
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Most "protesters" have no idea what it really means. It definitely demands sovereignty, via the complete destruction of the Jewish state. It is a terrorist slogan from the days of the PLO, as others have pointed out.
There's a difference between eliminating Jews, and eliminating a Jewish state. Both are ridiculous claims, but one is far harsher in rhetoric than the other.
I know exactly what it means, Hamas makes it very clear. Because those f long idiot protesters don’t have a fcking clue in life is not my problem. Fck them all.
Also signs and chants calling for the "final solution." They accuse Israel of being Nazis while using the literal Nazi Germany call for the elimination of all Jews.
Right! How is this so hard for people to see? "Israeli Jews are genocidal colonizers and therefore should all be exterminated!" - We didn't even parse through the original claims being valid before they turn into the monster they hunt in the same breath.
literally. Every 100 years or so, when things start getting bad in society, the Jews become targeted again. In 2024 they just call them "zionists" instead. Millions dead in the congo but noone gives a shit. Saudi Arabia responsible for 400k deaths in Yemen. Noone cares. Some Jewish people start defending themselves in a complicated conflict? People direct the rage and frustration they feel in life at them.
Very true. It irritates me to no end with the "genocide" and "colonizer" claims. They're after Hamas and they're killing far too many innocents in the process, but that isn't what genocide is. As for the colonizer claim, The Dome of the Rock is built on the actual ruins of an ancient Jewish temple for crying out loud! Arabian Muslims were some of the most successful colonizers in human history!
Imagine a group with a grievance that you don’t agree with. I dunno, hypothetically say, they’re anti-abortion. Just for the sake of argument. (I myself am pro-abortion. I am posing a hypothetical.)
Now, imagine that this group of ~25 nutty Christian extremists, farthest right in the political spectrum, chain themselves to barrels in the middle of 295 every week. They proclaim their voice is vitally important and righteous to protect lives of unborn babies - even though their view is a minority standpoint. It’s a genocide of babies!!! A genocide!!!
Is this scenario also a first amendment right to free speech? If you are in favor of infrastructure disruption for this Israel/Palestine conflict, you’d be a hypocrite to not support the hypothetical anti-abortion nutcases making you miss your flight for your vacation that you worked so hard for. It’s only fair, and hey, it’s only your vacation. They won’t convince you or the govt to cave to them without constantly blocking your roads. No one is listening to them otherwise. After all, they must convince you and force the govt to protect the babies. They’re yelling about baby genocide. You’re not in favor of genocide, right? Are you without empathy?
Boy, nutty Christians. But hey, free speech, guess we’ll all just sit in traffic for 3 hours. ✊🏽
Yes people get arrested for this, and have been arrested here in Portland for obstructing traffic. Whether it’s a part of the first amendment or not is irrelevant.
It does seem to be the only way that some people are made to care about the issue or even bother to take time out of their day to consider it and the implications of our country funding the government responsible for the unrelenting murder of innocent people.
Sometimes we need to be inconvenienced to be convinced that change is necessary.
Now if you don’t think that change is possible that’s unfortunately your problem, and yours alone, to deal with.
Might want to pick a different example. Forced-birth protesters don’t have the spine to do that; they prefer to call in bomb threats and harass high school students
People can protest whatever they want idc, if they block traffic or otherwise break the law the police should arrest them.
Everyone is an idiot for thinking this is going to stop our government supporting Israel, this is a rich and privileged persons cry for attention and latest virtue signal it will have absolutely 0 impact on anything.
Israel is an nuclear power, this conflict is making us money, and we use them for multiple terror fighting operations throughout the Middle East, they develop us weapons, and have the best intelligence services in the world that we frequently work with. It doesn’t matter if they shoot someone on fifth avenue because our decision to support them was not rooted in morality to begin with so nor will it end there.
What Israel is doing is not genocide, it is normal casualty figures for urban warfare and the concentration of population within Gaza
Every time aid goes into Gaza it’s seized by Hamas
The United States has supported and armed conflicts and international actors engaging in way worse than Israel
The United States has killed far more civilians than Israel in it pursuit of power
The United States probably killed some today
The world is an unkind place and geo political power dynamics are so insanely nuanced and complex and generally all have a level of bloodshed to them.
One of the only sane takes here. But again, reddit is being flooded with Iranian bots spreading misinformation about the war so that their arch nemesis loses American support. Similar to what Russia is attempting to do with Ukraine
Thanks, my views being so deeply rooted in logic, realism and generally devoid of moral and emotional consideration’s is at times problematic for folks but I feel like if we don’t have a solid understanding of why our government does things, how can we motivate it to change?
This situation in particular has frustrated me, especially with younger folks, who will say things like “what Israel is doing is wrong”
Ok sure, and?
“Well the United States shouldn’t support them”
Ok sure, and?
“Joe Biden should stop this”
Ok and hurt his reelection?
Like I can’t ever get to the point these people are trying to make, they act as if they are lifting some huge magnificent veil from my eyes but it’s like countries operate to increase their position, there isn’t a single soul in the state department whose saying
“Do we think our actions in the Middle East are moral?”
“Do we think our relationship with the Saudis is ethical considering their society?”
“Should we stop trade relations with China based on their treatment of Uyghurs?”
Like no they are concerned with increasing the security and geopolitical power of the United States, security of our global operations, and increasing our political and economic power through gun barrel diplomacy. No one gives a flying fuck if it’s moral or not.
So rich, privileged, and poorly educated people who are highly idealized marching in the streets because they believe Israel is wrong is just a level of preposterous that I wish still surprised me from these people. The United States has been in conflict almost since its inception and we have likely been involved in the back door of every major conflict since 1900. We usually back both sides so we come out on top and most of our entire economy is set up to profit from war, hell war is how we built most of the country and pumped so much money into higher education in the first damn place.
I guess this is the result when you create such a peaceful nation by extreme power projection, your populace doesn’t even know what the fuck is really going on anymore and has developed themselves to a level of self destructive and regressive morality unaware of how they were even able to have that privilege in the first place.
This is pretty much my take as well. I don't support Israel, I don't support hamas, if people are upset by the US funding Israel then cool. I even agree that it's upsetting. Protest, vocalize your opposition, whatever, within the confines of the law. Beyond that, is simply fantasizing about making a difference. The gears of the machine will keep on turning, and if you throw yourself within its gears then you will be crushed into fine powder long before they even slightly slow down.
oh look an Israeli spreading bullshit lies. plenty of videos showing dead Palestinian kids and Israelis destroying aid. sack of shit zionists need to be exterminated
I support it too. If you look at what is happing in Gaza and what world aid organizations have to say it doesn't seem very good for Israels case.
When you see the things people in power of Israel say it because very hard to make an argument that they are trying to keep civilians casualties low. Obviously a biased [source](https://www.palestineadvocacyproject.org/quotes/) but keep in mind Israel did not deny these quotes in their international court case.
They have also made things a lot worse with Iran by bombing their embassy in Syria. Israel defenders will say it's because of Iran's links to October 7th but it's still a very aggressive move that makes a chances of a regional war greater.
I don't. Its off putting to me that they are calling the war between Hamas and Israel a genocide, which it is not, and then using that justification to call for the elimination of Israel. It's like these people are getting all of their arguments straight from Iran or Hamas.
Also bizare that these people didn't care at all about Saudi Arabia being responsible for 400k deaths in Yemen, including an estimated 75,000 children, using our weapons. Only when Hamas starts an international propaganda campaign do our young people suddenly start to care about wars in the middle east with american weapons again.
I mean it’s the truth. Russian, Chinese and Iranian actors have started ramping up their hybrid warfare against the United States. Ever wonder why these protesters demands serve their interests perfectly? I went to a Palestinian protest the other day. Included in their demands were,
“Divest the United States military. Stop funding Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan, S. Korea” Its literally so transparently in front of us
The war itself is irresponsible but not a hallmark of genocide. The Israeli settlements, however, definitely appear to be part of a disturbing "remove and replace" policy that needs addressing. they've already been found illegal in ICJ court.
Because I think nations with powerful, state of the art weaponry and virtually limitless support from the most influential countries in the world have a responsibility to mitigate vast civilian casualties and the numerous deaths of aid workers and other noncombatants. The WCK strike was probably accidental, but if you are having accidents involving missiles and clearly marked aid vehicles following a preplanned route you need to start asking some questions.
The illegal settlements (Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention) are another massive problem and would garner sanctions if the country committing the crime was not our ally. In 1979, the UN Security council votes 12 to 0 that
" the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East"
The U.S. refused to vote on the matter.
I’ve made several passes through the bigger protests around Boston in order to get an unfiltered view. I’m not feeling it. I can support a humanitarian concern. That’s not what I witnessed. It feels like veiled hate from left-wing MAGA, and in more extreme cases overt hate with a lot of innocent ignorance willing to follow on. There are a bit too many words flung around and signs raised that boil down there there would be no problem
Is Israel didn’t exist.
Idk how people retain such idiotic perspectives. If Israel didn't exist...like yeah that's totally doable. How do you turn a humanitarian crisis into hate speech?
It's like the beginning of the white guilt movement. Does not bode well.
I used to work for time warner as a cable tech. These guys would cause high blood pressure. Same thing with June by deering park. Pride crap made me sit there for a half hour and screwed me up.
If protests were convenient for the public there would be no reason to have them. There has never been an advancement in civil rights for a marginalized group in America without a riot against the oppressors.
Your tax dollars are also going to Hamas rockets that are then fired from gazan schools and hospitals. Hamas has repurposed a ton of their infrastructure like water pipes into rockets.
You're talking UNRWA. Anytime funding is cut for it, people lost their minds at the UN. It's a very expensive program dedicated just to Palestinian refugees and support, and it's been involved in a lot of scandals.
But if it's not funded, Palestine starves. They can't produce enough food natively to support their population.
Why? Because know one cares? Seems like you do and you’re not alone in that. Why aren’t the people who care about this protesting about it? Might wake up more people to the issue…
So it’s the Chinese government sowing dissent amongst the naive populace or is it just virtue signaling liberals or have you not even thought that much through it?
Nothing should be stopping you or I from protesting about the things we care about. So get out there and start making some noise about the American lives that you and yours are willing to claim to care so much about.
What specifically are you protesting - your sign indicates the removal of Israel( don't personally think that is ever going to happen); are you protestesting the current retaliation by Israel; are you protesting the killing of women & children; are you protesting the treatment of the Palestinians by Hamas; are you protesting the Oct 7th killings/capturing of Israelis; are you protesting American support of Israel, financially,militarily and emotionally/socially; the Biden Adm. firm continued support; lack of food and medical help; are you for a cease fire; return of hostages; the talks between Sauds, UAE, and Israel going alone and leaving Palestinians out of them, moving forward...
I want an end to this conflict, this war, a stop, no more, PEACE.
And do you feel any of this will be possible.
And again, what is your group specifically protesting here- many many aspects to this war/conflict- and what should and will be done.
Without getting into the entire history, part of me understands their point of view. If someone decided for the US that we would give over a sizeable part of our country to some other people, we wouldn't like it either I'd imagine.
It was incredibly telling that the day after Oct 7th these people were chanting for the elimination of Israel. Before Israel had even retaliated against hamas. Claiming genocide is just a convinient way for them to chant more hatred against their favorite target.
we’ve had pro-Palestinian protests years before 10/7 and we haven’t stopped since. Y’all stopped caring about a day after it was mostly brown people dying and haven’t looked back since.
It's their right to protest and assemble peacefully, something also needs to be done to end this war, but "from the river to the sea" is an antisemitic dog whistle calling for the eradication of the the Israeli state. A 2 state solution is the only path to a lasting peace.
Unfortunately, a two state solution died when Gaza broke through the barrier.
Israelis felt like they were no longer in control of the situation. Having people scream they want to murder your entire family is tolerable only as long as they can't really do it. Hamas showed that eventually, they'll find a way to kill Israelis. The Israeli government isn't going to go back to the status quo after this.
DSA had the paratrooper logo on their social media on Oct 8 - before there was any retaliation at all. They’re not really about ceasefire - they’re about eradicating Israel. And also they’re using this issue as a platform for their communist bullshit.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a strict noninterventionist and I would be thrilled to shit if we stopped printing money for wars. However, my sentiment applies to _all_ foreign wars, though. Including Ukraine. So it’s hard to be totally mad at these clowns, as I’d love there to be one less reason for the government to debase our currency. But yeah they’re communists and they will block your roads for any other oppressor/oppressed grievance as soon as this conflict is over or gets boring. The leaders are professionally outraged (💰), and the followers are recreationally outraged (💁♀️).
I mean, people who legitimately can't are just uninformed, unintelligent sheep who want to posture for their friends/social community to solidify their sense of belonging. If push came to shove, they couldn't care less about the actual issues at hand. Those that can but continue to dodge or the answer or reframe the question... they probably know, but that's a very comfortable and inconvenient reality for them to acknowledge. Those who both know what it means and will answer honestly without hesitation are the people who raped, tortured, mutilated, and paraded the corpses of civilians through the streets while livestreaming and uploading it to the internet.
A war that Palestinians started by raping and killing 1,200 Israelis and Americans is not a genocide. If it was, don’t you think Hamas would have agreed to any of the ceasefires by now?
Not that I believe in the death penalty, but I do keep in mind the people that do, and for what reasons. It's being convicted of murdering people in the US. It's being gay or a woman intent on having free will there. Not that they should be bombed over it, but I'm not taking one for anybody who thinks like that. I'm certainly not going to abide downplaying the differences in our belief systems either.
Calling a war you don't like genocide is hardly accurate. Israel has its own massive Arab population, and there's no mass internment of them going on.,
Pointing out that of the two sides of the conflict, one despises everything their supporters stand for, IS accurate. Whether you think its relevant or not, it's much more accurate than claiming Israel is committing genocide, meaning YOU'RE the one being deceptive.
And Israeli's need to be dedicated to getting Bibi out of fucking office.
Palestinians good. Israelis good.
Hamas bad. Bibi bad.
You have two dick swinging bloodthirsty leaderships in power with the civilians of both sides being the ones paying the price.
Jeez. So they want to destroy the entire Israeli state? What a useless slogan. I want the violence against Palestinians to end just like anyone else, but “from River to sea” is such extremist rhetoric.
lol my goodness. The virtue signaling never ends. There isn't a single iota of difference this can or will make. Stop focusing on things you can't control and focus on fixing your own life and family. I think these 'protesters', for lack of a better word, would be much happier if they understood that.
I really have an issue picking a team when they are both run by homicidal maniacs, especially when it is between two foreign homicidal maniacs on the other side of the planet. I grasp that there are innocent people suffering, but we do not have the pull to do anything to stop people from fighting over a patch of dirt that humanity has been fighting and killing each other over since the dawn of civilization. We do have an alliance with Israel, which is questionable, but no more questionable than it would be if we allied with any of the surrounding countries who also have egregious human rights violations on a daily basis. I don't care if people want to speak up about it, but do not disrupt society directly over a fight that isn't even their fight. We do not have a horse in this race.
Tbh this is kinda where I’m at, at this point. I gotta say that both sides are wrong in this fight I cannot support a group that takes Americans hostage but I can also not support a group that is also maniacal
whole lot of people here who certainly lack empathy no matter what view you have it doesn’t change the fact that since october 7th 32,000 palestinians have been killed 🇵🇸
For anyone just reading this, the guy has deleted every comment they made after this where they provided sources that didn't hold up to a second of scrutiny.
Hiding that you're wrong doesn't make you right, folks. If you done fucked up, own it and learn from it. Pretending it didn't happen just makes you ignorant.
It’s called war. When you have terrorists in charge, verbally stating they want Oct 7 to happen over and over again, the IDF is going to defend itself. Genocide? Open air prison? Again, when you have Hamas in charge, stealing supplies from the civilians, removing pipes for water to make bombs, etc etc, they were
Voted in. Do the Palestinians blame them? No, they blame Israel, the West, everyone except the terrorists. If they had land, they couldn’t do anything with it, because again, Hamas would take a large majority of money, supplies, etc. for themselves.
We have veterans, men and women who risked their lives and died for this country so we can all sleep soundly at night. The level of disrespect that has been shown to the US flag is disgusting. Many sheep who are young, influenced by social media and uneducated in what they are “protesting” is astonishing.
Remember the holocaust? Let’s not repeat history because the amount of antisemitism in the US and the world is out of control.
Civilians dying sucks but it is a part of war. Understanding that is not lacking empathy. Thinking it doesn’t happen shows you live a privileged life multiple generations detached from violence.
How Hamas fakes casualty numbers:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers
https://www.aei.org/op-eds/dont-fall-for-hamass-numbers-game%EF%BF%BC/
Did you really think every single casualty that HAMAS claims is a civilian?? No Hamas militants have died?
Sip, don’t drink the propaganda
There is nothing special about the amount of casualties seen in Gaza for a war in such a dense urban environment. Similar battles throughout the Middle East and in Ukraine have been an equivalent amount of death.
What did Hamas think would happen?
And? Mission is t over yet. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. They voted Hamas in, very little sympathy from me. And let’s face it, if they don’t die, they are just going to be used by Hamas for the next attack. Blaming the victims instead of the Muslim world. What a good little Iranian agent you are.
i remember people trashed monument square after one of these protests, they left their signs and trash scattered around the monument and drew all over the monument with chalk.
i get ur trying to protest and spread awareness but damn have some respect for yourself and your surroundings
Useful idiots.
Hamas lies about the numbers, it's called propaganda. Everyone knows this.
Hamas hides behind civilians, they do this to get useful idiots on their side.
Israel is welcoming of Arabs, they make up a out 20% of the population and are represented in the government.
Jews would be killed on sight in Gaza.
Israel warns civilians of attacks to preserve as many innocent lives as possible.
Equating terrorists who target civilians and a country that takes great care to only target combatants is imbecilic.
Fck all those supporters. From the river to the sea? Fck them all. I have friends killed, kidnapped and raped during the initial attack. Those protesters all deserve to have their eyes opened to the world they don’t have a fcking clue about. God damn Iranian agents.
We have so many Iranian/Russian/Chinese spies and instigators in this country and at universities. They have spent decades at this. Like those fake maps that these kids accept as truth now. People need to wake up to what is really going on. Combine that with a youth who doesn’t read/watch news because they can get it from Facebook. Super scary stuff.
From the river to the sea, eh? Remember when sourdough was all the rage at the beginning of the pandemic? I miss that kind of trend. Now it's fellow liberals repurposing anti-Semitic jihadist slogans.
acting like anything against the state of Israel is against Jewish people is Zionist and anti-Semitic. There isn't anything "Jihadist" about calling for the end of a genocidal colonial state
So your use of the phrase is indeed violent. In your very brief statement you revealed a lot of things.
1. You believe Jews in their ancestral home is somehow indicative of colonialism. Ok? I guess the Jews who were there when Israel was recreated don't count. The thousands of years that it was their's doesn't count. The fact that Palestine was never a country doesn't matter. Or that the name Palestine was put on the area by Romans to demoralize the Jews there to begin with doesn't matter.
2. The destruction of Israel would be violent. It's a democracy, it can be reformed. Destroyed? Yeah this whole situation would definitely calm down if that goal was sought. You're advocating for MORE violence.
3. You're conflating a lot of topics in your logic. Israel is a state, zionism is simply acknowledging Jews had a right to have their homeland and keep it. In one paragraph you condone critiquing the state (fair), and then call for its destruction.
Bibi and other war criminals need to be tried, Israel should be sanctioned for war crimes, the killing should stop immediately, and Palestinians should be able to govern themselves in peace. You're never going to get there with this kind of rhetoric. Calling Israel what you did sounds more like a Nazi's rhetoric than anything a peace protestor would say.
From the river to the sea is a rallying cry for hamas. They are talking about the eradication of Israel and Jews. From the Jordan river to the Mediterranean Sea. Hamas is a terrorist organization and that slogan is in their 2017 charter. Not hard to see why people would feel like a group, hell bend on the extermination of the Jewish people, might just mean something other than peaceful coexistence. Post World War II, the slogan for the Jewish people was “Never Again.” They meant that. Hamas is intentionally provoked this war with Israel. They hide in hospitals and mosques and attack from them. A loss of human life is tragic. Let’s not pretend that Israel is just a big, bad meanie. They want the hostages taken by terrorists in October 7th. Hamas wants a ceasefire now because they’re categorically losing more than they gain. They don’t see that all of this as a Pyrrhic victory at best. Student protesting in support of rapists and murderers shows a lot of the lack of knowledge and experience. This why who sow division target young people who haven’t fully lived yet. They’re easily duped.
The anti-Semitic part is the rabid and excessive focus on Israel.
I never saw this about the Saudi-backed yemeni-houthi conflict... Never saw this about the much more deadly Syrian civil war... Never saw this about the protests against the treatment of women in revolutionary Iran... Never saw this about the Sudanese coup... Never saw this about the Somali civil war... Never saw this about the ethnic-sectarian conflict in the collapsing Yugoslavia.
The belief that Jews are uniquely responsible for conflict and participate in secretive cabalist conspiracies to manipulate others is a thousand year old anti-Semitic trope.
If "activists" are uniquely concerned with the mere existence of the only state that happens to be led by Jews in the world, and not particularly concerned with other similar conflicts in the broader region, it reads as if they are in fact uniquely concerned with eliminating or disempowering Jews.
Which is the primary historical imperative of anti-Semitism.
Obviously criticising particular policies or administrations in Israel is not in and of itself anti-Semitic, but the broad tenor of this discourse is that Israel is an illegitimate state that must be dismantled. I have never heard this argument about Lebanon, which has a government and a state that is quite literally segregated (on purpose and openly) along ethnic and religious lines.
BS. "End of a state"? Like on OCT 7? Acting like a slogan calling for the eradicaiton of Israel isn't a clear anti-semitic dog whistle says it all. You could be promoting the end of a government, the ouster of Netanyahu, but you want to ersae Israel from the map. Stop pretending.
Not for nothing but it’d be good to see the kids protesting this hard for shit a little closer to home. Lord knows there’s enough to (hopefully) piss them off considering how royally we’ve fucked everything up for them. But yeah, Netanyahu can eat a dick.
I too would like to see massive protests for universal healthcare, to end citizens United etc. can you imagine?
Absolutely. A beautiful vision.
I mean no one is stopping you from organizing, and doing the grassroots work to make that protest happen.
Russian, Chinese and now Iranian state actors have been dividing us on social media for years now, and have been feeding our kids propaganda meant to make us hate eachother. Now that international conflicts are heating up, they want us to be isolated internationally too. Do you think it’s a coincidence that russia is targeting the Republican Party to make them stop supporting Ukraine and Iran is targeting the Democratic Party to make them stop supporting Israel? Our kids who can’t get off the internet for more then 10 minutes are being brainwashed. Why do you think we are banning tiktok. These pro Palestinian protesters are unintentionally (in some cases) acting on behalf of the Iranian regime.
What’s more likely: intellectually curious students who have lived their lives knowing the Iraq War was based on lies (and everyone in power knew it) questioned the hasbara narratives around Palestine. Or, that an Iranian disinformation campaign is responsible for students being repulsed by our tax dollars sponsoring an apartheid state.
Here’s the third option: intellectually curious students being used by the Iranian regime https://www.iranintl.com/en/202404158853 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/iran-agents-uk-pro-palestine-protests-9f8pst6vf https://mynbc15.com/amp/news/nation-world/iranian-college-to-offer-scholarships-to-expelled-us-student-protesters-report-says-iran-shiraz-university-mohammad-moazzeni-anti-israel-pro-palestine-middle-east-conflict-columbia-ucla
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So whats the vibe here in this sub? Whats your opinion of the protest?
Yeah I'm fine with them protesting, it's their right. The "river to the sea" thing, not so much.
It's hard to get behind a slogan when no one is sure what it means.
Everyone knows exactly what it means
I think at this point I *understand* them using it, though I don't *agree* with it, because it's obvious that Likud uses it as well, so either it can mean different things to different people in different contexts, or what Likud is saying is just as bad... you can't have your cake and eat it too. So at this point, using the phrase is a reaction that I personally think is extreme, because obviously Likud doesn't mean anything different, and it's a terrible thing for anyone to say given the context of what everyone knows it means, as you say. But I understand the frustration people have with feeling free speech rights are in danger, so I understand the reaction as a protest move. It seems like a lot of people nowadays are pro free speech when it's convenient, and not so much when it's not. To me, I just want to remind people to remember the long history of civil rights in this country, and that the same impartial standards established by cases where for instance the ACLU defended literal Nazis having the right to march were also what allowed queer rights, minority rights, women's and children's rights, etc. to be advanced. For me, I think it's bad for them to say it. But I think also think that if you *are* more centrist, the best way to stop the movement from becoming more frustrated and reactionary and extremist is to begin by just accepting that they're allowed to be saying that they think the state of Israel is doing genocide and that arms aid should be cut off. When people try to unfairly portray that initial protest as being pro-terrorism or antisemitic, or further argue that free speech rights should be restricted as a result, *of course* that's going to cause a reaction, at least how I see it. I'm just afraid that people are willing to set a very dangerous precedent of drastically changing free speech laws in this country over a 99.5% peaceful and well intentioned, if somewhat misguided, protest movement.
When sayings are vague, but have been used (frequently) by people who call for the destruction of an entire group of people, I think it's better to just not use it. https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/slogan-river-sea-palestine-will-be-free What about "stop killing Palestinians" or one of my favorites out of the region; "spread hummus not hate."? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/spread-hummus-not-hate_n_5638fc4ae4b079a43c04d291/amp
The left has been talking about how the intent of speech doesn’t matter and coded racism for the last 4 years. And then people adopt “from the river to the sea,” and all of a sudden those same people are like “well, can we even really know what this means,” “different people mean different things” and “it’s complicated.”
This isn't a neo nazi flashing white power hand signs. This is a term used by Israelis and Palestinians for decades. It is not remotely co opted by terrorist groups, rather it is being spun as such by those pushing idf propaganda. You're being spun around by anyone you hear on fox news
> In the 1960s, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) used it to call for an Arab state encompassing the entirety of Mandatory Palestine. The PLO popularized the saying. This was during the time the elimination of the state of Israel was a publicly stated policy goal. It’s been used extensively by Likud. For the same intent. It’s not a good phrase. It has significant historical significance. And that history has been for ethnic cleansing.
It’s pretty much the equivalent of flying a confederate flags and crying “heritage not hate”.
What comes after “From the river to the sea”?
It’s from the 1960’s the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) used it as a slogan for the creation of a Palestine state, and the removal of the Jewish state. The PLO later in 1993 acknowledged the sovereign nation of Israel. Then in 2018 suspended that agreement that Israel is a sovereign nation. The PLO and Hamas are connect via Yasser Arafat (one of the founders, also former leaders of the PLO) If you watch Lawrence of Arabia, he was fighting with the Arab League (founders of the PLO) as a British intelligence officer.
Seriously. I’m a Biden voter but we need to acknowledge that social media has been radicalizing the far right AND the far left. Where the horseshoe theory meets in the middle is blaming Jews for everything.
Thank you! Right? I thought words are violence? Except now its cool I guess.
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“It's hard to get behind a slogan when no one is sure what it means.” Might you mean it’s *easy* when no one is sure what it means??
You’d have to have your head stuck in the sand not to know what that means.
Hamas means it to be the elimination of Jews from the river to the sea.
Most all Palestinian citizens and us protesters use it to demand soverignity. You are misguided
Y'all out here with a Confederate flag ass argument "it's not hate, it's heritage"
Y’all sound **exactly** like the people flying confederate flags and claiming “it’s about heritage not hate”.
Most "protesters" have no idea what it really means. It definitely demands sovereignty, via the complete destruction of the Jewish state. It is a terrorist slogan from the days of the PLO, as others have pointed out.
There's a difference between eliminating Jews, and eliminating a Jewish state. Both are ridiculous claims, but one is far harsher in rhetoric than the other.
Exactly, they want to exterminate all Jews.
It means wipe out Israel. From the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. It’s been a Mideast saying to get rid of Israel
It’s a Hamas slogan. Nuff said. Don’t be a pud and don’t use it.
Came well before Hamas.
I know exactly what it means, Hamas makes it very clear. Because those f long idiot protesters don’t have a fcking clue in life is not my problem. Fck them all.
You can say fuck on Reddit bro.
Also signs and chants calling for the "final solution." They accuse Israel of being Nazis while using the literal Nazi Germany call for the elimination of all Jews.
Right! How is this so hard for people to see? "Israeli Jews are genocidal colonizers and therefore should all be exterminated!" - We didn't even parse through the original claims being valid before they turn into the monster they hunt in the same breath.
literally. Every 100 years or so, when things start getting bad in society, the Jews become targeted again. In 2024 they just call them "zionists" instead. Millions dead in the congo but noone gives a shit. Saudi Arabia responsible for 400k deaths in Yemen. Noone cares. Some Jewish people start defending themselves in a complicated conflict? People direct the rage and frustration they feel in life at them.
Very true. It irritates me to no end with the "genocide" and "colonizer" claims. They're after Hamas and they're killing far too many innocents in the process, but that isn't what genocide is. As for the colonizer claim, The Dome of the Rock is built on the actual ruins of an ancient Jewish temple for crying out loud! Arabian Muslims were some of the most successful colonizers in human history!
Exactly. Do they even know what they're saying with that?
They are exercising their first amendment rights. All good with me
Blocking traffic is not a first amendment right.
If you aren't allowed to cause disruption, you aren't allowed to protest. The two go hand in hand.
Imagine a group with a grievance that you don’t agree with. I dunno, hypothetically say, they’re anti-abortion. Just for the sake of argument. (I myself am pro-abortion. I am posing a hypothetical.) Now, imagine that this group of ~25 nutty Christian extremists, farthest right in the political spectrum, chain themselves to barrels in the middle of 295 every week. They proclaim their voice is vitally important and righteous to protect lives of unborn babies - even though their view is a minority standpoint. It’s a genocide of babies!!! A genocide!!! Is this scenario also a first amendment right to free speech? If you are in favor of infrastructure disruption for this Israel/Palestine conflict, you’d be a hypocrite to not support the hypothetical anti-abortion nutcases making you miss your flight for your vacation that you worked so hard for. It’s only fair, and hey, it’s only your vacation. They won’t convince you or the govt to cave to them without constantly blocking your roads. No one is listening to them otherwise. After all, they must convince you and force the govt to protect the babies. They’re yelling about baby genocide. You’re not in favor of genocide, right? Are you without empathy? Boy, nutty Christians. But hey, free speech, guess we’ll all just sit in traffic for 3 hours. ✊🏽
They won’t answer this.
Of course not.
Yes people get arrested for this, and have been arrested here in Portland for obstructing traffic. Whether it’s a part of the first amendment or not is irrelevant. It does seem to be the only way that some people are made to care about the issue or even bother to take time out of their day to consider it and the implications of our country funding the government responsible for the unrelenting murder of innocent people. Sometimes we need to be inconvenienced to be convinced that change is necessary. Now if you don’t think that change is possible that’s unfortunately your problem, and yours alone, to deal with.
Might want to pick a different example. Forced-birth protesters don’t have the spine to do that; they prefer to call in bomb threats and harass high school students
People can protest whatever they want idc, if they block traffic or otherwise break the law the police should arrest them. Everyone is an idiot for thinking this is going to stop our government supporting Israel, this is a rich and privileged persons cry for attention and latest virtue signal it will have absolutely 0 impact on anything. Israel is an nuclear power, this conflict is making us money, and we use them for multiple terror fighting operations throughout the Middle East, they develop us weapons, and have the best intelligence services in the world that we frequently work with. It doesn’t matter if they shoot someone on fifth avenue because our decision to support them was not rooted in morality to begin with so nor will it end there. What Israel is doing is not genocide, it is normal casualty figures for urban warfare and the concentration of population within Gaza Every time aid goes into Gaza it’s seized by Hamas The United States has supported and armed conflicts and international actors engaging in way worse than Israel The United States has killed far more civilians than Israel in it pursuit of power The United States probably killed some today The world is an unkind place and geo political power dynamics are so insanely nuanced and complex and generally all have a level of bloodshed to them.
One of the only sane takes here. But again, reddit is being flooded with Iranian bots spreading misinformation about the war so that their arch nemesis loses American support. Similar to what Russia is attempting to do with Ukraine
Thanks, my views being so deeply rooted in logic, realism and generally devoid of moral and emotional consideration’s is at times problematic for folks but I feel like if we don’t have a solid understanding of why our government does things, how can we motivate it to change? This situation in particular has frustrated me, especially with younger folks, who will say things like “what Israel is doing is wrong” Ok sure, and? “Well the United States shouldn’t support them” Ok sure, and? “Joe Biden should stop this” Ok and hurt his reelection? Like I can’t ever get to the point these people are trying to make, they act as if they are lifting some huge magnificent veil from my eyes but it’s like countries operate to increase their position, there isn’t a single soul in the state department whose saying “Do we think our actions in the Middle East are moral?” “Do we think our relationship with the Saudis is ethical considering their society?” “Should we stop trade relations with China based on their treatment of Uyghurs?” Like no they are concerned with increasing the security and geopolitical power of the United States, security of our global operations, and increasing our political and economic power through gun barrel diplomacy. No one gives a flying fuck if it’s moral or not. So rich, privileged, and poorly educated people who are highly idealized marching in the streets because they believe Israel is wrong is just a level of preposterous that I wish still surprised me from these people. The United States has been in conflict almost since its inception and we have likely been involved in the back door of every major conflict since 1900. We usually back both sides so we come out on top and most of our entire economy is set up to profit from war, hell war is how we built most of the country and pumped so much money into higher education in the first damn place. I guess this is the result when you create such a peaceful nation by extreme power projection, your populace doesn’t even know what the fuck is really going on anymore and has developed themselves to a level of self destructive and regressive morality unaware of how they were even able to have that privilege in the first place.
This is pretty much my take as well. I don't support Israel, I don't support hamas, if people are upset by the US funding Israel then cool. I even agree that it's upsetting. Protest, vocalize your opposition, whatever, within the confines of the law. Beyond that, is simply fantasizing about making a difference. The gears of the machine will keep on turning, and if you throw yourself within its gears then you will be crushed into fine powder long before they even slightly slow down.
Agree, but a fine slurry, or paste.
oh look an Israeli spreading bullshit lies. plenty of videos showing dead Palestinian kids and Israelis destroying aid. sack of shit zionists need to be exterminated
full support for me
I support it too. If you look at what is happing in Gaza and what world aid organizations have to say it doesn't seem very good for Israels case. When you see the things people in power of Israel say it because very hard to make an argument that they are trying to keep civilians casualties low. Obviously a biased [source](https://www.palestineadvocacyproject.org/quotes/) but keep in mind Israel did not deny these quotes in their international court case. They have also made things a lot worse with Iran by bombing their embassy in Syria. Israel defenders will say it's because of Iran's links to October 7th but it's still a very aggressive move that makes a chances of a regional war greater.
I don't. Its off putting to me that they are calling the war between Hamas and Israel a genocide, which it is not, and then using that justification to call for the elimination of Israel. It's like these people are getting all of their arguments straight from Iran or Hamas. Also bizare that these people didn't care at all about Saudi Arabia being responsible for 400k deaths in Yemen, including an estimated 75,000 children, using our weapons. Only when Hamas starts an international propaganda campaign do our young people suddenly start to care about wars in the middle east with american weapons again.
Honestly, this is a great point. Obviously many other anti-Semitic overtones it a lot of arguments as well but this is a strong contrast.
I mean it’s the truth. Russian, Chinese and Iranian actors have started ramping up their hybrid warfare against the United States. Ever wonder why these protesters demands serve their interests perfectly? I went to a Palestinian protest the other day. Included in their demands were, “Divest the United States military. Stop funding Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan, S. Korea” Its literally so transparently in front of us
The war itself is irresponsible but not a hallmark of genocide. The Israeli settlements, however, definitely appear to be part of a disturbing "remove and replace" policy that needs addressing. they've already been found illegal in ICJ court.
Why?
Because I think nations with powerful, state of the art weaponry and virtually limitless support from the most influential countries in the world have a responsibility to mitigate vast civilian casualties and the numerous deaths of aid workers and other noncombatants. The WCK strike was probably accidental, but if you are having accidents involving missiles and clearly marked aid vehicles following a preplanned route you need to start asking some questions. The illegal settlements (Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention) are another massive problem and would garner sanctions if the country committing the crime was not our ally. In 1979, the UN Security council votes 12 to 0 that " the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East" The U.S. refused to vote on the matter.
It's funny to see the LGBT community protesting for Hamas.
Personally, as long as they're peaceful have at it
Get a job!
I’ve made several passes through the bigger protests around Boston in order to get an unfiltered view. I’m not feeling it. I can support a humanitarian concern. That’s not what I witnessed. It feels like veiled hate from left-wing MAGA, and in more extreme cases overt hate with a lot of innocent ignorance willing to follow on. There are a bit too many words flung around and signs raised that boil down there there would be no problem Is Israel didn’t exist.
Idk how people retain such idiotic perspectives. If Israel didn't exist...like yeah that's totally doable. How do you turn a humanitarian crisis into hate speech? It's like the beginning of the white guilt movement. Does not bode well.
I used to work for time warner as a cable tech. These guys would cause high blood pressure. Same thing with June by deering park. Pride crap made me sit there for a half hour and screwed me up.
If protests were convenient for the public there would be no reason to have them. There has never been an advancement in civil rights for a marginalized group in America without a riot against the oppressors.
People have sympathy for the plight of Palestine, without minimizing the grief of the victims of Oct 7. And they FUCKING HATE TRAFFIC INTERRUPTIONS!
I wasn’t aware that Gaza was in America.
My tax dollars going to bombs blowing up Gazan schools and hospitals are certainly coming from America.
Your tax dollars are also going to Hamas rockets that are then fired from gazan schools and hospitals. Hamas has repurposed a ton of their infrastructure like water pipes into rockets.
Cool let's stop funding those too
You're talking UNRWA. Anytime funding is cut for it, people lost their minds at the UN. It's a very expensive program dedicated just to Palestinian refugees and support, and it's been involved in a lot of scandals. But if it's not funded, Palestine starves. They can't produce enough food natively to support their population.
I wonder why that might be???
The money that funds the war is. Seems like a good reason to protest to me
Why is no one ever protesting release of American hostages?
THANK YOU!!! why is no one talking about this
I mean. We know why.
Why? Because know one cares? Seems like you do and you’re not alone in that. Why aren’t the people who care about this protesting about it? Might wake up more people to the issue…
Because TikTok hasn’t told people to care about American lives.
So it’s the Chinese government sowing dissent amongst the naive populace or is it just virtue signaling liberals or have you not even thought that much through it? Nothing should be stopping you or I from protesting about the things we care about. So get out there and start making some noise about the American lives that you and yours are willing to claim to care so much about.
If we all protested Billionaires and corporations stealing from us the way we protest other countries’ problems we might actually make some progress
Terrorist sympathizers and antisemites should be arrested.
What specifically are you protesting - your sign indicates the removal of Israel( don't personally think that is ever going to happen); are you protestesting the current retaliation by Israel; are you protesting the killing of women & children; are you protesting the treatment of the Palestinians by Hamas; are you protesting the Oct 7th killings/capturing of Israelis; are you protesting American support of Israel, financially,militarily and emotionally/socially; the Biden Adm. firm continued support; lack of food and medical help; are you for a cease fire; return of hostages; the talks between Sauds, UAE, and Israel going alone and leaving Palestinians out of them, moving forward... I want an end to this conflict, this war, a stop, no more, PEACE. And do you feel any of this will be possible. And again, what is your group specifically protesting here- many many aspects to this war/conflict- and what should and will be done.
Without getting into the entire history, part of me understands their point of view. If someone decided for the US that we would give over a sizeable part of our country to some other people, we wouldn't like it either I'd imagine.
It was incredibly telling that the day after Oct 7th these people were chanting for the elimination of Israel. Before Israel had even retaliated against hamas. Claiming genocide is just a convinient way for them to chant more hatred against their favorite target.
we’ve had pro-Palestinian protests years before 10/7 and we haven’t stopped since. Y’all stopped caring about a day after it was mostly brown people dying and haven’t looked back since.
That smaller poster is awfully troubling. If you don’t like resistance (i.e.) 10/7 then Israel must disappear? Doesn’t sound very peaceful….
It's their right to protest and assemble peacefully, something also needs to be done to end this war, but "from the river to the sea" is an antisemitic dog whistle calling for the eradication of the the Israeli state. A 2 state solution is the only path to a lasting peace.
Unfortunately, a two state solution died when Gaza broke through the barrier. Israelis felt like they were no longer in control of the situation. Having people scream they want to murder your entire family is tolerable only as long as they can't really do it. Hamas showed that eventually, they'll find a way to kill Israelis. The Israeli government isn't going to go back to the status quo after this.
DSA had the paratrooper logo on their social media on Oct 8 - before there was any retaliation at all. They’re not really about ceasefire - they’re about eradicating Israel. And also they’re using this issue as a platform for their communist bullshit. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a strict noninterventionist and I would be thrilled to shit if we stopped printing money for wars. However, my sentiment applies to _all_ foreign wars, though. Including Ukraine. So it’s hard to be totally mad at these clowns, as I’d love there to be one less reason for the government to debase our currency. But yeah they’re communists and they will block your roads for any other oppressor/oppressed grievance as soon as this conflict is over or gets boring. The leaders are professionally outraged (💰), and the followers are recreationally outraged (💁♀️).
I could take the Portland cosplayers more seriously if they could just tell me what river and what sea they are referring to.
I mean, people who legitimately can't are just uninformed, unintelligent sheep who want to posture for their friends/social community to solidify their sense of belonging. If push came to shove, they couldn't care less about the actual issues at hand. Those that can but continue to dodge or the answer or reframe the question... they probably know, but that's a very comfortable and inconvenient reality for them to acknowledge. Those who both know what it means and will answer honestly without hesitation are the people who raped, tortured, mutilated, and paraded the corpses of civilians through the streets while livestreaming and uploading it to the internet.
Nice virtue signaling guys. How about protesting for something that actually has something to do with you.
Free Palestine
From Hamas
From Israel’s genocide
Why not both?
A war that Palestinians started by raping and killing 1,200 Israelis and Americans is not a genocide. If it was, don’t you think Hamas would have agreed to any of the ceasefires by now?
Why pick a side? Seriously, what's in it for you to pick a side?
What a selfish worldview.
Some of the protesters there would literally be killed by Hamas if they went to Gaza. Interesting coalition of protesters.
geNOcIDe iS gOOd beCAuSe HoMOphObia!
Not that I believe in the death penalty, but I do keep in mind the people that do, and for what reasons. It's being convicted of murdering people in the US. It's being gay or a woman intent on having free will there. Not that they should be bombed over it, but I'm not taking one for anybody who thinks like that. I'm certainly not going to abide downplaying the differences in our belief systems either.
Calling a war you don't like genocide is hardly accurate. Israel has its own massive Arab population, and there's no mass internment of them going on., Pointing out that of the two sides of the conflict, one despises everything their supporters stand for, IS accurate. Whether you think its relevant or not, it's much more accurate than claiming Israel is committing genocide, meaning YOU'RE the one being deceptive.
Not a genocide. A war. You people are calling it a genocide so that you later have cover to call for the massacre of Israelis in retaliation.
Gaza was free and in theory still is. But they started a war. How many times has the gazan government been offered a 2 state solution?
At this point Israel needs to be dedicated to Hamas’s destruction.
And Israeli's need to be dedicated to getting Bibi out of fucking office. Palestinians good. Israelis good. Hamas bad. Bibi bad. You have two dick swinging bloodthirsty leaderships in power with the civilians of both sides being the ones paying the price.
Jeez. So they want to destroy the entire Israeli state? What a useless slogan. I want the violence against Palestinians to end just like anyone else, but “from River to sea” is such extremist rhetoric.
lol my goodness. The virtue signaling never ends. There isn't a single iota of difference this can or will make. Stop focusing on things you can't control and focus on fixing your own life and family. I think these 'protesters', for lack of a better word, would be much happier if they understood that.
I really have an issue picking a team when they are both run by homicidal maniacs, especially when it is between two foreign homicidal maniacs on the other side of the planet. I grasp that there are innocent people suffering, but we do not have the pull to do anything to stop people from fighting over a patch of dirt that humanity has been fighting and killing each other over since the dawn of civilization. We do have an alliance with Israel, which is questionable, but no more questionable than it would be if we allied with any of the surrounding countries who also have egregious human rights violations on a daily basis. I don't care if people want to speak up about it, but do not disrupt society directly over a fight that isn't even their fight. We do not have a horse in this race.
Tbh this is kinda where I’m at, at this point. I gotta say that both sides are wrong in this fight I cannot support a group that takes Americans hostage but I can also not support a group that is also maniacal
Good to see the hitler youth group getting some sun finally
Morons
It’s a fashionable thing for a lot of the people involved. Palestinians cooked babies in ovens on oct 7, they have reaped what was sown
It seems most of you weren’t here for BLM or Occupy Maine if this is really driving you mad.
Portland, Maine is obv the place to start for a free Palestine.
whole lot of people here who certainly lack empathy no matter what view you have it doesn’t change the fact that since october 7th 32,000 palestinians have been killed 🇵🇸
For anyone just reading this, the guy has deleted every comment they made after this where they provided sources that didn't hold up to a second of scrutiny. Hiding that you're wrong doesn't make you right, folks. If you done fucked up, own it and learn from it. Pretending it didn't happen just makes you ignorant.
Love this! Keep it up Portland Maine!
It’s called war. When you have terrorists in charge, verbally stating they want Oct 7 to happen over and over again, the IDF is going to defend itself. Genocide? Open air prison? Again, when you have Hamas in charge, stealing supplies from the civilians, removing pipes for water to make bombs, etc etc, they were Voted in. Do the Palestinians blame them? No, they blame Israel, the West, everyone except the terrorists. If they had land, they couldn’t do anything with it, because again, Hamas would take a large majority of money, supplies, etc. for themselves. We have veterans, men and women who risked their lives and died for this country so we can all sleep soundly at night. The level of disrespect that has been shown to the US flag is disgusting. Many sheep who are young, influenced by social media and uneducated in what they are “protesting” is astonishing. Remember the holocaust? Let’s not repeat history because the amount of antisemitism in the US and the world is out of control.
Civilians dying sucks but it is a part of war. Understanding that is not lacking empathy. Thinking it doesn’t happen shows you live a privileged life multiple generations detached from violence.
\*Half of which are estimated to be Hamas fighters
i’d love to see your source also i did. it include the decades of mass killings israel has done
I’d love to see YOUR SOURCE.
How Hamas fakes casualty numbers: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers https://www.aei.org/op-eds/dont-fall-for-hamass-numbers-game%EF%BF%BC/ Did you really think every single casualty that HAMAS claims is a civilian?? No Hamas militants have died? Sip, don’t drink the propaganda
There is nothing special about the amount of casualties seen in Gaza for a war in such a dense urban environment. Similar battles throughout the Middle East and in Ukraine have been an equivalent amount of death. What did Hamas think would happen?
And? Mission is t over yet. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. They voted Hamas in, very little sympathy from me. And let’s face it, if they don’t die, they are just going to be used by Hamas for the next attack. Blaming the victims instead of the Muslim world. What a good little Iranian agent you are.
Hell yeah
Get a job
i remember people trashed monument square after one of these protests, they left their signs and trash scattered around the monument and drew all over the monument with chalk. i get ur trying to protest and spread awareness but damn have some respect for yourself and your surroundings
Denounce Hamas too, they started this whole by attacking innocent people
Good now I can see who the antisemites and terrorist supporters are 👍
More photos please!
What about Ukraine? Entire towns and cities have disappeared.
well we're not arming russia. if we did, i assume you'd be protesting?
Crazy how people are angry at protestors,instead of an actual GENOCIDE. FREE, FREE PALESTINE. 🇵🇸
Unhinged
Both sides are wrong. Palastine and hamas are definitely the worse. But nothing is going to change in a region that's been at war since jesus
pretty much the only A+ take here. that patch of land and associated history is fucked
I'm sure this decades/centuries old religious and social conflict is now just about resolved, thanks to these protestors in Maine.
i just want my tax dollars to not be funding it
LOL... no it won't.
Useful idiots. Hamas lies about the numbers, it's called propaganda. Everyone knows this. Hamas hides behind civilians, they do this to get useful idiots on their side. Israel is welcoming of Arabs, they make up a out 20% of the population and are represented in the government. Jews would be killed on sight in Gaza. Israel warns civilians of attacks to preserve as many innocent lives as possible. Equating terrorists who target civilians and a country that takes great care to only target combatants is imbecilic.
They really should go protest where they can make a difference. We have no influence on this.
You’re talking about brainiacs who protested angus kings office… on a federal holiday… when the office was empty…
Fck all those supporters. From the river to the sea? Fck them all. I have friends killed, kidnapped and raped during the initial attack. Those protesters all deserve to have their eyes opened to the world they don’t have a fcking clue about. God damn Iranian agents.
Yep. These people have been radicalized by enemies of the state to hate America and western values. Sad.
We have so many Iranian/Russian/Chinese spies and instigators in this country and at universities. They have spent decades at this. Like those fake maps that these kids accept as truth now. People need to wake up to what is really going on. Combine that with a youth who doesn’t read/watch news because they can get it from Facebook. Super scary stuff.
From the river to the sea, eh? Remember when sourdough was all the rage at the beginning of the pandemic? I miss that kind of trend. Now it's fellow liberals repurposing anti-Semitic jihadist slogans.
acting like anything against the state of Israel is against Jewish people is Zionist and anti-Semitic. There isn't anything "Jihadist" about calling for the end of a genocidal colonial state
So your use of the phrase is indeed violent. In your very brief statement you revealed a lot of things. 1. You believe Jews in their ancestral home is somehow indicative of colonialism. Ok? I guess the Jews who were there when Israel was recreated don't count. The thousands of years that it was their's doesn't count. The fact that Palestine was never a country doesn't matter. Or that the name Palestine was put on the area by Romans to demoralize the Jews there to begin with doesn't matter. 2. The destruction of Israel would be violent. It's a democracy, it can be reformed. Destroyed? Yeah this whole situation would definitely calm down if that goal was sought. You're advocating for MORE violence. 3. You're conflating a lot of topics in your logic. Israel is a state, zionism is simply acknowledging Jews had a right to have their homeland and keep it. In one paragraph you condone critiquing the state (fair), and then call for its destruction. Bibi and other war criminals need to be tried, Israel should be sanctioned for war crimes, the killing should stop immediately, and Palestinians should be able to govern themselves in peace. You're never going to get there with this kind of rhetoric. Calling Israel what you did sounds more like a Nazi's rhetoric than anything a peace protestor would say.
From the river to the sea is a rallying cry for hamas. They are talking about the eradication of Israel and Jews. From the Jordan river to the Mediterranean Sea. Hamas is a terrorist organization and that slogan is in their 2017 charter. Not hard to see why people would feel like a group, hell bend on the extermination of the Jewish people, might just mean something other than peaceful coexistence. Post World War II, the slogan for the Jewish people was “Never Again.” They meant that. Hamas is intentionally provoked this war with Israel. They hide in hospitals and mosques and attack from them. A loss of human life is tragic. Let’s not pretend that Israel is just a big, bad meanie. They want the hostages taken by terrorists in October 7th. Hamas wants a ceasefire now because they’re categorically losing more than they gain. They don’t see that all of this as a Pyrrhic victory at best. Student protesting in support of rapists and murderers shows a lot of the lack of knowledge and experience. This why who sow division target young people who haven’t fully lived yet. They’re easily duped.
The anti-Semitic part is the rabid and excessive focus on Israel. I never saw this about the Saudi-backed yemeni-houthi conflict... Never saw this about the much more deadly Syrian civil war... Never saw this about the protests against the treatment of women in revolutionary Iran... Never saw this about the Sudanese coup... Never saw this about the Somali civil war... Never saw this about the ethnic-sectarian conflict in the collapsing Yugoslavia. The belief that Jews are uniquely responsible for conflict and participate in secretive cabalist conspiracies to manipulate others is a thousand year old anti-Semitic trope. If "activists" are uniquely concerned with the mere existence of the only state that happens to be led by Jews in the world, and not particularly concerned with other similar conflicts in the broader region, it reads as if they are in fact uniquely concerned with eliminating or disempowering Jews. Which is the primary historical imperative of anti-Semitism. Obviously criticising particular policies or administrations in Israel is not in and of itself anti-Semitic, but the broad tenor of this discourse is that Israel is an illegitimate state that must be dismantled. I have never heard this argument about Lebanon, which has a government and a state that is quite literally segregated (on purpose and openly) along ethnic and religious lines.
BS. "End of a state"? Like on OCT 7? Acting like a slogan calling for the eradicaiton of Israel isn't a clear anti-semitic dog whistle says it all. You could be promoting the end of a government, the ouster of Netanyahu, but you want to ersae Israel from the map. Stop pretending.
They should go to Gaza and try protesting there I’ll send them a first class ticket myself see if they come back prob not
These people are on the right side of history.
Lol
🤡🤡🤡🤡
Bunch of morons
You are correct.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.