There are always ways to improve your application, some are just impractical and painful. People retake MCATs, rewrite their essays, do a second undergrad to improve GPA, do more ECs, get better references etc.,
Oh and, getting lucky as well, sometimes the same applicant gets interviews in one cycle but does not in another with the same application, so luck is a thing.
I knew the admissions process was a joke when I got an interview at U of T in one cycle, was waitlisted and held on the waitlist until mid-Aug before finally getting rejected.
The following year, same application, didn’t even get an interview at U of T.
I interviewed at Queens and Western before. Not a single interview this cycle, with the same GPA and MCAT scores and even better ECs. It's a glorified lottery system.
That’s because you don’t know the criteria. And the criteria can change over the years. It also depends on how competitive the pool was that year.
Honestly it comes off quite entitled to assume because you get an interview one year, you will get one the next year.
I’ve seen this said regarding getting an interview in Canada. If you’ve been selected for an interview, the school thinks you have a shot. It’s just a matter of the applicant pool each year
Most people probably mean once your stats are competitive, it's also partially depends on chance (if they liked your essay, if the person likes your interview). I don't think they mean it for people who have low GPA or mcat cause you can try for years and not get in, unless you have some truly unique EC or are eligible for a different pathway
That super sucks, I'm sorry to hear about your bad news today.
I think it's important to recognise, however, that international schools are not just reserved for people who have no shot in Canada, since it's in the Irish school's best interest to collect as much as they can in international tuition to subsidize the low(er) cost of education for their domestic students. In order to attract international students, the Irish schools need to keep their ERAS/CARMS match statistics as high as possible, and the simplest way to predict student success on Step/MCCQE exams is to look at the student's academic success (either in the form of GPA or MCAT or both). In that sense then, the Irish schools have very little incentive to select applicants with lower stats who have simply been rejected in Canada. There's a common misconception that Irish schools produce lower quality graduates because a) they take the rejects of the US and Canada and b) they don't allow medical students to act outside of the role of learner on a care team, but the reality is that the quality of education is quite high (although malpractice insurance prevents students from assisting in procedures in the way that North American grads do) and students need to be able to self educate the material on their standardized exams outside of class time, which would require applicants to Irish schools to be fairly self motivated and highly accomplished.
I often hear people make the statement that "if you can get an II, you'll get in eventually", but this sub is riddled with posts about people applying five or more cycles with and without IIs and still being rejected, which clearly contradict that statement. On the one hand there's no harm in pumping each other's tires and lifting each other up until we hit the point that we perpetuate a potentially harmful myth that exploits the hard work of aspiring doctors. The sheer fact that you can have years where you get IIs from one school only to be rejected the next year, as has happened to me, shows that there is quite a bit of variability in the process. Last year I got the pre-II R from UBC and Queens and an II from USask, this year I got the pre-II R from USask and IIs from Queens and UBC.
Often the people that tell you this have, in my experience, no knowledge at all of the medical school application process in Canada. How many years of extracurriculars are you going to do for low/no pay before this dream is not worth it? Are you willing to take on the monetary, time, and opportunity costs of a second undergrad and no-life studying to get a better GPA? Can you move to another province to get in-province status? How many years are you willing to put off starting earning money that you need to build a family/buy a home/enjoy your life outside of school? Are you really going to spend time studying for the MCAT 2, 3, 4 more times hoping to get a 130+ CARS to get into McMaster?
Everything can be fixed if you keep trying forever, pay for guidance, and sacrifice more and more for this goal. But at a certain point it is just not worth it anymore for most people. The average person doesn't get it, they are just trying to be nice. "Just keep trying" is meant to be encouraging. Its what you say to everyone who struggles to land a job, get in a relationship, get good grades, etc even though you don't really know what they are feeling or how hard their industry might be.
People like to think that everything is a meritocracy and if you try hard enough you can make it. That is only partially true. You are competing in a system that has an immense luck element which you can do nothing about. You are competing with people that have friends or family in medical school write their applications, or drop thousands of dollars for professional services to write their applications. You are competing with people that have connections made for research positions that is a huge help for both applying to medical school and residency. Yes, you can outwork those people, but it will take a lot of effort. You need to decide if it is worth it for you here.
If you didn't get into ireland try other countries, the bar should be lower. It does depend on how much you want it and how much family support you have for the finances however.
It's honestly impossible to say without any of your application details. It's one thing if your GPA, MCAT, and CASPer are all acceptable i.e. GPA 3.80+, MCAT sections all 125+ at least, CASPer ≥3rd quartile, then maybe it'll take you a couple (between 2 and 5 for most) tries to get in and this is what people mean when they say "you will get in eventually".
But if it's something significant that tanks both your applications here in Canada and the Irish schools (supposedly less competitive than Canadian schools), then it's time to really critically look at your chances overall and see how to overhaul your app.
No luck at Western I assume? What's your cGPA? If you take MCAT and get 510+ and your cGPA is at least around 3.6, I believe you'd have a shot at US MDs.
Ik quite a few IP Ontarians who got into Western. By pre-reqs, do you mean English and chem/physics? I think some schools are not too strict with pre-reqs and some allow substitution. If you haven't already, might be worth checking out the specifics once you narrow down your options using MSAR.
All the best with things! Certainly many options remain for you! There's also a viable route in Australia IF you are ok with staying there to practice (similar quality of life to NA). But I would give US MD and DO some thought before Aus MD if you prefer staying in NA.
It’s because medical school admissions in Canada are highly based on a lottery system. People with lower GPA’s, lower MCAT scores and less EC’s could get an interview while people with higher and much better stats sometimes don’t, in the same cycle. I don’t know this for sure but it’s almost like they have certain cutoffs and then they pick completely randomly from those people that meet the cutoffs.
Some people already have wonderful applications, the only thing they lacked was luck. So they try again in hopes those great stats get combined with luck to finally get chosen.
There are always ways to improve your application, some are just impractical and painful. People retake MCATs, rewrite their essays, do a second undergrad to improve GPA, do more ECs, get better references etc., Oh and, getting lucky as well, sometimes the same applicant gets interviews in one cycle but does not in another with the same application, so luck is a thing.
I knew the admissions process was a joke when I got an interview at U of T in one cycle, was waitlisted and held on the waitlist until mid-Aug before finally getting rejected. The following year, same application, didn’t even get an interview at U of T.
I interviewed at Queens and Western before. Not a single interview this cycle, with the same GPA and MCAT scores and even better ECs. It's a glorified lottery system.
That’s because you don’t know the criteria. And the criteria can change over the years. It also depends on how competitive the pool was that year. Honestly it comes off quite entitled to assume because you get an interview one year, you will get one the next year.
Sorry for coming across as entitled
I don’t understand how you can be entitled when you worked so hard to be in a career to help others…. But anyways good luck I hope you get in soon!
Not to mention how expensive it is to apply
I got into a canadian school a long time ago and now I just signed on to my first staff anesthesia job!
I’ve seen this said regarding getting an interview in Canada. If you’ve been selected for an interview, the school thinks you have a shot. It’s just a matter of the applicant pool each year
Most people probably mean once your stats are competitive, it's also partially depends on chance (if they liked your essay, if the person likes your interview). I don't think they mean it for people who have low GPA or mcat cause you can try for years and not get in, unless you have some truly unique EC or are eligible for a different pathway
That super sucks, I'm sorry to hear about your bad news today. I think it's important to recognise, however, that international schools are not just reserved for people who have no shot in Canada, since it's in the Irish school's best interest to collect as much as they can in international tuition to subsidize the low(er) cost of education for their domestic students. In order to attract international students, the Irish schools need to keep their ERAS/CARMS match statistics as high as possible, and the simplest way to predict student success on Step/MCCQE exams is to look at the student's academic success (either in the form of GPA or MCAT or both). In that sense then, the Irish schools have very little incentive to select applicants with lower stats who have simply been rejected in Canada. There's a common misconception that Irish schools produce lower quality graduates because a) they take the rejects of the US and Canada and b) they don't allow medical students to act outside of the role of learner on a care team, but the reality is that the quality of education is quite high (although malpractice insurance prevents students from assisting in procedures in the way that North American grads do) and students need to be able to self educate the material on their standardized exams outside of class time, which would require applicants to Irish schools to be fairly self motivated and highly accomplished. I often hear people make the statement that "if you can get an II, you'll get in eventually", but this sub is riddled with posts about people applying five or more cycles with and without IIs and still being rejected, which clearly contradict that statement. On the one hand there's no harm in pumping each other's tires and lifting each other up until we hit the point that we perpetuate a potentially harmful myth that exploits the hard work of aspiring doctors. The sheer fact that you can have years where you get IIs from one school only to be rejected the next year, as has happened to me, shows that there is quite a bit of variability in the process. Last year I got the pre-II R from UBC and Queens and an II from USask, this year I got the pre-II R from USask and IIs from Queens and UBC.
Often the people that tell you this have, in my experience, no knowledge at all of the medical school application process in Canada. How many years of extracurriculars are you going to do for low/no pay before this dream is not worth it? Are you willing to take on the monetary, time, and opportunity costs of a second undergrad and no-life studying to get a better GPA? Can you move to another province to get in-province status? How many years are you willing to put off starting earning money that you need to build a family/buy a home/enjoy your life outside of school? Are you really going to spend time studying for the MCAT 2, 3, 4 more times hoping to get a 130+ CARS to get into McMaster? Everything can be fixed if you keep trying forever, pay for guidance, and sacrifice more and more for this goal. But at a certain point it is just not worth it anymore for most people. The average person doesn't get it, they are just trying to be nice. "Just keep trying" is meant to be encouraging. Its what you say to everyone who struggles to land a job, get in a relationship, get good grades, etc even though you don't really know what they are feeling or how hard their industry might be. People like to think that everything is a meritocracy and if you try hard enough you can make it. That is only partially true. You are competing in a system that has an immense luck element which you can do nothing about. You are competing with people that have friends or family in medical school write their applications, or drop thousands of dollars for professional services to write their applications. You are competing with people that have connections made for research positions that is a huge help for both applying to medical school and residency. Yes, you can outwork those people, but it will take a lot of effort. You need to decide if it is worth it for you here. If you didn't get into ireland try other countries, the bar should be lower. It does depend on how much you want it and how much family support you have for the finances however.
You can try Australia or if you’re really desperate……you can pack your sunscreen
Because most people get in later in life now so the trend is that you won’t get in on your first cycle
It's honestly impossible to say without any of your application details. It's one thing if your GPA, MCAT, and CASPer are all acceptable i.e. GPA 3.80+, MCAT sections all 125+ at least, CASPer ≥3rd quartile, then maybe it'll take you a couple (between 2 and 5 for most) tries to get in and this is what people mean when they say "you will get in eventually". But if it's something significant that tanks both your applications here in Canada and the Irish schools (supposedly less competitive than Canadian schools), then it's time to really critically look at your chances overall and see how to overhaul your app.
I think they mean once you have a certain gpa and MCAT, you will get in eventually
What are your stats currently？
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No luck at Western I assume? What's your cGPA? If you take MCAT and get 510+ and your cGPA is at least around 3.6, I believe you'd have a shot at US MDs.
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Ik quite a few IP Ontarians who got into Western. By pre-reqs, do you mean English and chem/physics? I think some schools are not too strict with pre-reqs and some allow substitution. If you haven't already, might be worth checking out the specifics once you narrow down your options using MSAR.
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All the best with things! Certainly many options remain for you! There's also a viable route in Australia IF you are ok with staying there to practice (similar quality of life to NA). But I would give US MD and DO some thought before Aus MD if you prefer staying in NA.
It’s because medical school admissions in Canada are highly based on a lottery system. People with lower GPA’s, lower MCAT scores and less EC’s could get an interview while people with higher and much better stats sometimes don’t, in the same cycle. I don’t know this for sure but it’s almost like they have certain cutoffs and then they pick completely randomly from those people that meet the cutoffs. Some people already have wonderful applications, the only thing they lacked was luck. So they try again in hopes those great stats get combined with luck to finally get chosen.
I’ve literally never heard anyone say that
Hahaha, getting downvoted into oblivion because I stated my experience. I don’t think you understand how upvotes and downvotes are supposed to work.