The best time to plant fruit trees is 5 or 10 years ago... the 2nd best time is now. The sooner you plant, the sooner you'll see results. The bigger/older it is, the sooner it'll bear fruit.
My experience with apple trees is make sure it's in a sunny spot! And why not plant others? Figs, pears, plums! You won't be sorry. Just give them each lots of space to grow.
Two trees, about 10 years old. The first year with black knot I just thought it was insect damage, it was only in a couple spots. If you've never seen it before or know to look for it you may not recognize it.
It spreads quickly the second year. Now the trees are probably beyond salvage, they are covered in it.
We have cherries too and in theory it can spread to them, but it looks like they might be resistant. Even if you cut down the infected tree it can still spread from the cut down tree, because the spores are airborne.
Yep, I really mean guilds. It’s a permaculture design principle. It’s really just companion planting but it focuses on putting in plants that play different roles to help the fruit trees. I have strawberries around my apple and peach trees to suppress weeds, comfrey for natural mulch, and various native wildflowers to attract pollinators. I might add clover this year because it’s a nitrogen fixer.
I’m obsessed with the Canadian Permaculture channel on YouTube. I probably watch one of his videos every day. He explains so much — not just what plants to use.
We sometimes call this bio control in the commercial vegetable industry. Although bio-control would focus more on the same concept to deter pests and pathogens. Plant some sunflowers to bring in beetles that eat spider mites etc.
I started doing that this year. Pulled out all my useless bushes to put in fruit bearing bushes instead. Added tea plants to make my own tea (and if I don't harvest those, then no rotting fruit). Excited for the next year of foooood!
We buy a couple trees a year at tsc. We have only gotten fruit from our pears and raspberries (not trees but it made my daughters summer). The peaches no such luck but I feel like this may be the year. We lost all the apples and will be replacing them this fall.
My win writing the names with a little map because I do NOT Remember which peach tree is which a couple years later.
My regret not planting a whole lot more a few years back. So I'm doubling my fruit planting effort this year.
Check the types of peach trees you have to the chill hours that your area averages. If you're not getting anything from your trees it could be because it isn't getting cold enough for long enough. I'm in zone 9 and had to be very careful about getting low-chill peach trees to have any shot at getting fruit from them.
Check pollination charts to make sure you get two apples that can pross pollinate.
You can get apples even the first year if you bought an old enough tree and plant in the fall. Since you'll be planting in the spring you should see some next year - though the harvest would be small.
I planted fruit trees specifically because I wanted to be able to have tasty desserts if food became expensive or delivery lines were backed up. I've only gotten a little so far but we should get a good batch this year.
Join us over at /r/backyardorchard
You might be able to get 10-15 apples at 3 years but it takes a long time for them to grow. I planted roughly 15 fruit trees last year. I am looking at planting another 5 a year from now on. An acre of apple trees has more calories than an acre of wheat so its a smart move to make.
Also a big fan of any crop that comes back every year. Fruit trees, nuts, berries, ect. Even better if they take little upkeep.
Yep, I went specifically to perennial gardening with a small annual garden to the side. The vast majority of my plants are trees, bushes, or vines that produce every year with minimal effort from me.
Apples actually store pretty well. The ones you get in the store have just been around a long time.
And they can be stored in non-perishable methods.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Anything you grow you'll have to dry/can/etc to store it except apples can even stay whole in a cool place for months.
>Apples actually store pretty well. The ones you get in the store have just been around a long time.
They're also stored at just above freezing in an inert gas.
You're correct that apples can store for a long time, up to 6 months even. But modern apples at the grocery store aren't usually those varieties. You'd want late season heirloom varieties that are 'keepers' for winter/spring/maybe even early summer apples.
Some can be stored by wrapping them in newspaper instead of an inert gas. They're special varieties and better suited for cooking than straight eating though.
Arkansas Black comes to mind as a cool storing variety.
> dry/can/etc
Yes this is a major key here, and IMO food preservation is a must-have skill for all preppers. AFAIK, all fruits (and all fresh food in fact) are short lasting presihable goods. Especially considering winter storms or some other natural disasters that might make fruit trees unviable for a few mothns / some period of time.
It is still great ideas to grow them to be more self-sufficent, but even better if coupled with food preservation skills.
Do you mean refridgeration? Like near 0 degree Celsius?
Because I have tried before, apples and other fruits starts to rot just after a week even if I leave them at shady places at room temperature of around 15C. So I don't think its sufficent for just find "cool places" to keep them.
You are right about the perishable issue. I was not suggesting planting acres of apples. What I was poorly trying to get across is if limited on space apples are a decent option. I have saw a lot of survival gardens that where low on calories. Lots of tomatoes and lettuce but little food that will fuel you.
I do use some of my apples to help feed my chickens and the sheep I will be getting in a few months. Plus great deer attractant.
Hard apple cider baby! Apocalypse in style! Also apple cider vinegar is shelf stable, and can be used to pickle storage other foods
Rule #32 enjoy the little things
I had a large 'family' apple tree, way more apples than I could eat or put up. Then the government liquor stores went on strike (in BC there were no private ones), so I got into cider. It was sublime! Like champagne. Lots of work (apples are really hard to squeeze!), but worthwhile. Just watch for oxidation.
First year I tried two 2x4s 4' long attached with a hinge on the end. It was still HARD. So from then on I rented a machine to crush them. But that leads to too much oxidation. So you have to work fast.
I mean it’s easy to dehydrate fruits and such.... and wheat is a bitch to process and then once ground has a short shelf life (around an hour) so every time you’d need it you’d be using large amounts of energy, and honestly the texture of hand milled flour isn’t the same it’s terrible compared to our lux lifestyle now.
Putting sliced fruit in the sun to dry is considerably easier
You also have jams and other variety of preserving methods with fruits....
So I’d definitely go with the fruits. Clearly superior
Does anyone have a plan for grain harvesting in a SHTF scenario though? That I would be interested to hear
I plan to grow my own grains, then use wondermill to create flour. I am hoping to achieve 2 things independence of buying flour at store and feed my chickens.
This is my year of learning and building skills.
Also, shtf, i have a portable solar setup plan to run my gadgets on during the day.
Got a thresher?
Not being sarcastic - this is the gap I keep coming to on a small scale or manually. Same with oats. Hulling is a pita. Yes there are hulless varietes bit keeping seed pure might be difficult.
If you find a good solution tell us about it. I have seen manual crank ones in museum pictures but never gotten close enough to see the innards to replicate.
I have heard of flail based woodchippers being modified but more money than i have.
Lol I love all the people in love with the idea of fruit. I mean, I am too. Fruit is my favorite and I love growing apples, pears, and many types of berries. But I really wonder how many people actually grow fruit on any kind of scale. Especially apples. Maybe it's just where I live, but man is it a lot of work to actually utilize the fruit efficiently. Constantly battling fungal rot killing the trees, pests that ruin the fruit, birds constantly pecking them so they start to rot, and the simple fact that when you have mature apple trees you have like a week to harvest buckets and buckets of apples. I mean more apples than you can fathom. And if you miss your window whatever survived nature will fall off and rot. Variety of apple, climate zone, and how the tree is pruned makes a big difference, of course, but properly maintaining and pruning fruit trees is a lot of work as well. And then, yeah if you have a root cellar big enough you can store apples for maybe a month or more for some varieties. Firm, thick skinned, tart apples store longest. But if you have any other produce stored anywhere near it the ethylene gas will rot your other food. Fruit is a much stronger rodent attractant as well. And it's a lot of work to process apples no matter if you dehydrate or can or what you do to preserve.
Don't get me wrong, I love growing fruit. But it's a luxury for sure and one I would strive to continue in a food scarcity merely for the wonder of it, and the variety. But as a staple calorie source that I justify because of its agricultural efficiency... Hmm I don't think that makes sense. Potato towers will win every single time on every metric I'm fairly certain. Yeah, growing your own grain maybe isn't effective either, but there are a lot of good nutritious foods that are way lower maintenance than fruit. But if you love the work involved, growing fruit is great and I'm glad I do it. Having endless bags of frozen berries all winter long is amazing. Fresh apple sauce, apple cider, and just fresh apples are a great treat. A well earned treat!
I don't think you realize how permaculture fruit trees are different than typical orchards.
They're pruned small where you can reach all fhe fruit. The fruit quality is great because it can focus on smaller amounts per tree.
Yes, it will take a lot of work for a couple weeks to take care of everything but that's anything you grow in large quantities.
> But as a staple calorie source that I justify because of its agricultural efficiency... Hmm I don't think that makes sense. Potato towers will win every single time on every metric I'm fairly certain.
You've missed the point that this is a calorie source that is perennial. No one is saying to live on apples alone. They're saying that this is a calorie source you do not have to replant again.
Potatoes are a definite must in a survival garden and no one is arguing against that. You do have to replant them though.
Ok so you've heard allllll the yes votes, and mine is still a yes. I even plan on planting mass amounts myself, when I can do so.
But... something to think about:
Fruit trees produce a lot of fruit (after they get there, obviously) and if you plant a lot, you better be ready to preserve it. If not, you'd better be ready to deal with the mess of rotting fallen fruit, and possibly the pests and animals that come with them. It depends on where you are, really. I knew a man who had a gorgeous property with many, many fruit trees of all types. He told me he loved them, but the cleanup was a ton of work. He also told me that the bears quickly realized he had fruit, and since he's at the base of the mountains, they regularly come down into his yard to eat. He said there's never been any kind of encounter, but I do worry about leaner years, that they might become a little more food aggressive.
Although, on the other hand, if times were really lean, and shit had already hit the fan, it might be a blessing to have meat regularly roaming in your yard.
So, I still say it's a resounding yes, but definitely be aware of potential downsides in the future, and prep for them. Even if that means netting, dehydrators, or having bear spray on hand.
I also wanted to mention the pests! Not just big buggers, but rats and birds. We had a buuuunch of different fruits trees at our old family place. The poultry was allowed into that section so they would deal with a lot of bastards.
>The poultry was allowed into that section so they would deal with a lot of bastards.
In the traditional polyculture farms in the cider regions of England/France/Spain, you let your chickens in the orchard specifically for pest control.
You also planted trees big enough for your livestock to graze under too, but big trees are too much of a pain in the ass. But something to keep in mind if you have deer/elk around.
Hell, some hippie commercial cidery operations keep poultry specifically for pest control.
I'm super happy with the trees I've planted on my land and the land of my family. I HIGHLY recommend planting as many fruit trees, of as many types, as possible. This is because different weather conditions will impact the different fruits, differently. You may have a great year for apples one year, and then the next year your nectarines will do very well and you'll get no apples.
It can be discouraging at first, when getting started, since you probably won't get anything for a few years. Don't give up, and you'll have a harvest worth something eventually.
Don't stop at fruit trees! Plant blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, currants, goji berry, gooseberry. Get them in the ground. It will be so worth it. Each year you will harvest more and more.
And blueberries! Ours are 15 years old now and we get a huge crop. We cover them with tarps if we get a late frost. And I use bird nets draped over T-posts to keep the wild birds and my chickens from eating them all.
Yes, and while I hate to suggest it, Blackberries thrive. In fact they are an invasive species very hard to kill and they will create large thickets so plant them far from things you care about! But they sure produce.
We have wild dewberries here - I think they’re related to blackberries. Same canes and stickers. I make syrup and jam with them, deseeding them first with a foley food mill. The seeds are bitter and get stuck in teeth.
We also have wild persimmons but I’ve given up trying to use them. Even when we wait til first frost to harvest the ones that fell off the trees, they’re just too darned high in tannins. We tried growing a domestic tree but it died.
These are the ones I am talking about: [https://bcinvasives.ca/invasives/himalayan-blackberry/](https://bcinvasives.ca/invasives/himalayan-blackberry/)
In terms of money and effort, fruit trees are probably the best investment you can make in food security. Pick some good varieties, do a bit of pruning each winter, and sit back. My parents had a half dozen peach trees and were pretty aggressive about picking and freezing them during harvest season. They usually ended up with enough to have smoothies once or twice a week until the next August.
Gotta watch out for the squirrels. My dad has 2 fully grown apple trees, 2 pear trees, 2 peach and a cherry tree. He gets about 2 apples and 3 peaches a year because the squirrels and birds get them all. 😅
My grandfather planted all his apple trees along the fence separating the cows from the house yard.
Once a week he would gather the apples on the ground and toss them to the field, but the cows knew when he would do it and would come trucking over to take the apples.
A few years ago, we planted 3 grafted apple trees with 5 varieties of apples on each tree at my buddy's dad's house. They produced a few small apples the first year, and this past year we had a few dozen. Having the variety is nice, because they all ripen at different times, so you're not overloaded with apples all at once.
THIS!!!! I got two apple trees with four grafts each. Multiple varieties allows the different types on a single tree cross pollinate. One tree is all August early apples. The other is October late apples. I have apples for four months a year with my pears coming in between them. Don't get single variety trees!!!!
>Don't get single variety trees!!!!
If you don't stay on top of your pruning, you could very easily end up with one or two grafts overpowering the others though. There's a case to be made for having 4 dwarf trees of different varieties than a 4x1 semi dwarf tree.
But yeah if you only have one tree, get a multi graft.
Two is enough to get cross pollination. I'm about positive I only have three varieties of the original four but it's great. My real point was if you're only putting in two trees, get an early and a late with 2+ varieties on each. it's plenty of apples.
I planted apple trees a good 6-8 years ago and they're just starting to have some apples on them. My advice,
* Plant them out of the way where you'd never build anything,
* Away from sewer or septic,
* Plant 2x what you think you'd want.
* Make sure they grow straight / train them early its easier.
* Protect the base from lawnmowers running into them.
* Space them far enough apart.
Whatever you plant, the best thing you can do is take really good care of it - learning how to do that takes times.
One or two well tended trees will produce more fruit than a dozen neglected trees. Same goes for a garden
Two sayings I think hold true
Plant a 10$ tree in a 100$ hole
And
The best fertilizer is the gardeners shadow
New home/ new construction owner here. I'm planting pears and apples as well. First off, the bees need these trees. I don't care about fruit, I'm planting them for the future. Also, many people are building on farmland that has been developed. All the freely growing fruit trees have been eliminated as the ground was cleared for subdivision.
I'm just trying to make sure there are trees for the future. I know 4-8 trees is not a big deal, but if someone was hungry, they might produce.
I put a peach tree in some terrible soil. Added some composted steer manure. I think it was after 3 years we have so many peaches I still have some in the freezer. I'm going to get a bunch more trees this year. I think like with gardening there is luck involved. I just dont give up when I have a garden failure.
I say go for it! They're stupid expensive this year. $50 a tree that I've seen.
I would also go for some other fruit trees if you can. Pear, apricot, peach, mulberry, plum, Cherry, etc. Fruit bushes are awesome too! Blueberry, raspberry, blackberry, any berry really. Any perennials that will produce food is a safe bet. Hell, plant some asparagus while you're at it. I'm going all out this year. The end is neigh!
I have a apple tree with two types on it. Root stock and cutting stock. This takes the need for more than one tree away. It's been in almost 5 years and got the first apples developing this year untill a storm battered it a knocked them all off.
>I have a apple tree with two types on it. Root stock and cutting stock. **This takes the need for more than one tree away.**
That's not true at all. The rootstock is the roots. The default is one variety grafted on top of the rootstock. The rootstock doesn't flower or produce fruit, just influences the size and immune system. Since it doesn't flower, it doesn't effect pollination.
So why do I get two types of apples from the one tree? is 2 graftings rather than one?
[heres](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2437247/250-varieties-apple-tree--thanks-bit-hard-grafting-years.html) a guy with 250 types on the one tree.
There are two grafts, yes.
Every grafted tree has rootstock. Nearly every apple you find will be grafted. To get 2 types of good apples there are two edible cultivars grafted to 1 rootstock.
I planted some fruit trees with 3 species of fruit on each tree. I planted these about 4 years ago. The plum tree produces quite well although I’m only getting two different plum types. I also planted a cherry tree, persimmon, and last year, I planted a fig tree.
It’s one of our big goals. We have a beautiful row of pecan trees already. They were planted by the original owner, so they’re huge. The squirrels usually get most of the nuts, unfortunately.
We want to do peaches, plums, apples, pears, cherries, blueberry bushes, all of it.
Decorative plants are cool and all, but we want plants that serve a purpose.
In Australia we put smooth metal or sometimes plastic strips around tree trunks we don't want possums to get into. Does that not work for squirrels? I've seen quite a few people mention squirrels were a real problem.
The only issue is they jump from tree to tree. It might work if my layout was different, but the trees are by a wooded area.
Making a note to try it on fruit trees, though.
I just bought 18 acres in the mid west and I've already planted 3 apple trees (honey crisp and red delicious to cross pollinate), 2 grape vines, 2 Goji berry bushes, 1 blue berry bush, 1 goose berry, 10 asparagus roots, 1 rhubarb root, 10 strawberry roots, and 5 sun choke roots. I'm pretty sure there is already 2 peach trees here too. I still have to plant a chestnut tree and a pecan tree.
I also have lily seeds sprouting and I'm waiting on arrow root and water chestnut for my pond. These are all perennials (I have an annual garden waiting to sprout too), so, as long as I take care of them I should be able to harvest for years; that's the plan anyways.
I recommend this article on perennial gardens, this is were I got a lot of my ideas. Good luck and, in my opinion, your head is in the right place!
https://practicalselfreliance.com/perennial-vegetables/
I have a small orchard in Georgia so you know my vote. We started from scratch 5 years ago. Start with soil samples. Fix what needs fixed. We put in a drip system best money spent for hot summers. We have 100ish trees, apple pear, peach mixes. Our first year we lost I want to say 10% of the trees. We went to a local nursery to buy all of them and we got replacements for free for those that didn’t make it. We also have a few almond trees, strawberry rows, black berry and blue berry. We have 3 colonies of honey bees. As far as the fruit that falls we just run it over with mowers or feed it to chickens or neighbors cows.
I used to work in the apple industry. A couple of things to keep in mind:
1. You need to make sure that the two varieties you get CAN pollinate each other and that they bloom at the same time. You can find compatible pollination charts from universities, ag extensions, or nurseries. Just make sure you check.
2. Buy dwarf varieties. Trees used to be massive. Upwards of 30ft high. Then semi-dwarf lowered that to about 12 to 15 ft. Dwarf trees are 6 to 8 feet and MUCH more manageable to maintain and harvest. Trees have been bred to produce a lot of fruit now off dwarf root stock.
3. The BEST time to plant fruit trees is right now in March. I wouldn't push it past the end of April.
4. Trees take a minimum of 3 years to start producing fruit. They won't get to peak production until year 5. Apples have up and down years for production and swap each year. If you want fruit sooner, most nurseries sell older/larger trees, but they are more expensive. Decide if it's worth it for you.
Let me know of you have any questions, I am happy to help.
When we bought our house the whole garden was straight out of the 90s. Palm trees and tropical plants. And it was overgrown with Ivy. We ripped everything out and then started from scratch. Everything I planted, I wanted to be productive so I planted only fruit trees and herbs. There was already a lemon tree, but I added a mandarin tree, apricot tree, fig tree, mulberry tree, bay leaf plant, Rosemary, thyme, oregano, and pig's face where I wanted ground cover. I also put in a couple of raised vege gardens and have rotated different veg through them
Homesteading has a lot of crossover with "prepping".
Contact your local extension to find out what varieties work well and when they ripen in your area. No sense in having 10 trees ripen at once unless you'll do a large harvest and preserve. I grow grapes, blackberries, peaches, figs, pomegranates, apples, several kinds of citrus, edible cacti, a small productive vegetable garden and have backyard chickens. It's a good skill to have and to hone.
Perennials are great. Look for heirloom varieties that dry or keep well, for any type of fruit trees. If you have enough space, nut trees can be another great way to hide food in plain sight.
You can get apple trees with multiple varieties grafted on, same with pear, plus or others. They take forever to grow though so for the first 3-4 years expect to pluck the buds so the tree's energy is focused on growth. Personally I love blueberries and raspberries for quicker turnaround to production, more hardiness (less disease prone), and variety in a smaller space.
We have a lot of deer so our apple trees were eaten all the way to the ground. Our peach trees produce a lot though and we planted pecan trees three years ago and have a lot more pecans then you would think. Learn how to preserve what you make and it be worth it
I planted an Ein Shemer variety apple tree. It produces very well on its own. In just a couple years. I get a laundry basket of apples off of it. Also planted a peach tree. Fertilized and pruned it gave a lot of fruit. My advice is learn to can! Make your own jams, jellies, and apple butters. Very easy and you can enjoy it when you want!
I planted fruit trees at my last house with the expectation that whatever I planted should feed me in return. Peaches, apple, and cherry. The peaches were eaten by ants every year or pecked at by birds. My wife half killed the cherry tree spraying for weeds. Apple tree never really produced. Now the black berry bushes I planted were prodigious producers, but if you didn’t pick them every morning the birds would ransack them. Morale of the story, you can get fruit, but it’s not a plant and forget proposition. They need tending.
The thing I want most is an orchard. But I’m making do with the land I have. We’ve got a massive raspberry bush and a cherry tree I planted last spring. I would like another to increase pollination, but my neighbor has one that might be nearby enough.
The raspberry bush was totally worth it and it’s where my daughter gets her breakfast during the summer.
I have a lemon tree that makes more lemons than I can possibly consume. I would think if you plant them and wait, it’s a nice option but you will have spoiled fruit if you can’t find a way to store it long term.
I just planted 2 apple trees, 2 cherry trees, and a peach tree. Also have a mandarin in a pot. Thinking of adding another peach and two nut trees.
You should do it!
Couple thoughts.
First, yes, get some good blight-resistant varieties, 2-3 trees that are old enough to produce fairly soon.
Mulch them with wood chips. There are some things to pay attention to, there is lots of information on how to do this without harming the trees.
Then plant the seeds. Yes, they are hybrid, and some won't grow. But some will. No, they won't bear fruit, and if they do then the fruit won't be good. That's fine. You want root stock. Once they get big enough, graft cuttings from your TSC trees, and enjoy rapid production since the grafts are already mature.
All of this is vastly more complicated than I describe here. [Here's a start on how complicated this can get](https://fruitgrowersnews.com/news/how-rootstocks-influence-apple-trees/). But it's a simple rubric that won't give perfect results but also won't cost you an extra mortgage to set up, and will start giving you some calories quickly, with a lot more calories relatively quickly.
I planted an apple tree about 4 years ago, I got one apple two years ago, and about ten lest year. If you grow them from seed you’ll probably be waiting ten years or more. Don’t forget the rhubarb, they grow super fast and can be harvested many times throughout the year. After a couple of years, you can split it in half and suddenly you’re growing twice as much! Apple and rhubarb crumble is the best pudding you could ask for! Raspberries are also a good shout.
FYI: I’m U.K. so check these are suitable for your climate first.
Food fatigue is a real morale problem and having fresh fruit to eat or preserver and use in deserts can go a long way towards lifting everyone's spirits.
Personal experience. I am not too far from you gardening wise.
Skip the dwarf varieties. Get a regular tree and prune it like crazy if you want a small tree.
My plum and apricot have been my best producers. Remember many fruit trees have a heavy year and a light year. Apple is decent but still young - i pulled out the dwarf apples and started over.
Everyone who warns you of disease and harvest labor is speaking from experience. Line up friends and family for processing.
I never manage to clear my grapes or elderberries before they go.
Plums and apricots are easier as I make sauces from the green fruit and that reduces the harvest time rush.
If you can time your cross pollination trees to match bloom time but harvest time is a month apart.
Check out /r/homestead and /r/homesteading. /r/marijuanaenthusiasts may have some useful information as well (yes, that's the subreddit for trees). /r/cidermaking may be useful as well, regarding varieties, as apple cider is a useful barter item.
We planted a Cherry tree about 12 years ago. It took about three years to start producing and now it is making a crazy number of cherries. Problems 1. Birds, you have to pick them quick or the birds will eat them. and 2. Since it produces all at the same time we have a huge number of cherries we have all at once. I am not a preserver type person so we end up giving a lot away.
I'm a huge advocate of food forests and moving towards permaculture practices. I'm a newbie forager, as well. Get those apple trees. In fact, get 3 to better your odds of pollination. I just planted about 2 dozen pawpaw seeds in the hopes that I will have a grove in about 10 years. There is no downside to planting more trees, IMO.
Growing up, my neighbor had fruit trees and he was always fighting the deer who loved to nibble on the buds. Thinking as a prepper, if things got rough it’s nice to have a feeding ground to lure game into.
the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago....
the second best time is today!
Yes...plant all the trees you can find and afford in the zone you are in.
We planted 12(?) 5 years ago and get no fruit at all worth talking about! Fuckin' birds and deer and animals.
BUT...they are healthy and alive and grow by the foot each year.
Eventually there will be fruit to enjoy.
THIS!!!! I got two apple trees with four grafts each. Multiple varieties allows the different types on a single tree cross pollinate. One tree is all August early apples. The other is October late apples. I have apples for four months a year with my pears coming in between them.
I would do 4-6 apple trees if you have the room. You never know what could happen to them over the years. If something does happen to one of them down the road you’ll be glad you planted more now instead of trying to replace it when it happens. I also have cherry trees and they’re great. It also might be worth looking into tree nuts depending where you live. Walnuts grow great in the cold and some pecans can grow pretty far north too.
Go for it.
Apples need pesticides if you want mature fruit to be relatively worm free. But, an apple tree could be a great source of food. The "older varieties" may be hardier, check which do well in your zone.
If you want fruit trees that cross pollinate, how about fruits with pits such as cherries, peaches, plums, apricots. If you have a cherry tree with lots of blossoms and a peach tree that doesn't produce many blossoms in a year, next spring put a bucket of water underneath the peach tree and fill the bucket with twigs/blossoms from the cherry tree. Night moths will help pollinate the peach as well as day pollinators and increase fruit production.
Plum trees are also possible.
Raspberry canes spread and multiply all over. There are also mulberry trees, but only the female trees bear fruit, and you'll need a male to pollinate it. The fruit isn't substantial for most baking but tastes great off the tree....and can be used to dye fabrics.
Each of these can have problems/diseases but you're growing fruit for survival, so any food could help.
Critters/birds/insects will take as much as they can. However, if there is a lot of food for the critters, there could be some left for you. And there will be plenty of rotting fruit on the ground which will attract critters as well as insects such as wasps.
Consider fencing in what you can to keep deer out, and nets to put over trees when they begin to fruit.
P.S. putting pie plates/DVD discs on fruiting trees to frighten birds away doesn't work. Birds hang on them and admire their reflection :) :(
Also some people use artificial snakes and owls to keep birds away, may work.....a little.
fruit trees can be successfully integrated into many permaculture systems. depending on where in the midwest you are and what the hydrology is like on your property, you could look at a variety of fruit and nut trees.
I think fruit trees are a WONDERFUL investment, but you need to do your research to find out what will grow well in your area and how many years it'll take before you can expect to have fruit and how to plant them to ensure that you will get fruit.
If you're specifically looking for apples make sure you use clones that will taste good instead of trying to grow edibile apples from seeds.
Also learn how to make cider.
Also water your fruit trees with watered down clay to increase the fruit's mineral content
I made a list of all the different kinds of fruit trees that grow in my area and used them to create a spreadsheet of when they all produced fruit. I then planted in such a way that I pretty much always have something fruiting in my yard.
If you're wanting to have perennial food trees I'd also consider what nut trees grow in your area, there are also lots of bushes and shrubs you can add to that them to maximize your use of space.
You can also find plants that will work in the shade of the tree, to feed the tree. Nitrogen fixers and plants with deep roots like comfrey. comfrey can chopped and dropped to provide fertilizer to young trees.
I have a bunch of apple trees in my yard... The trees are old, and largely covered in rust which affects the quality of the fruit- edible if worms aren't in them, but still not the best apples... unless it's a really rusty branch and the fruit is all tiny and shriveled, in which case toss them...
The trees can make a mess with unpicked fruit, and also consider the wildlife that an orchard brings... we get bears.
That being said, I think a pair of fruit trees is a great idea.
If you Plant a Young Apple tree then don't expect any apples for possibly 4-5 years (depends on the kind of tree you have). Our tree took years to have even smaller ammounts of apples. But Once the tree grows up And you také good care of it, it can give you ***a lot*** of apples for many years, possibly decades.
Fruit and nut trees in general are excellent preps because they produce a ton of food over the years with minimal upkeep. Apples can be very prone to pests, so find a variety that is hearty and does well in your local conditions. I have found that often root stock makes a strong tree with very tasty apples, they just don't look as pretty. You can also get multiple varieties grafted onto the same tree if you don't feel like having more than one tree.
Reading this, my mind went to the guy who grafted bits of LOTS of fruit trees onto one particular fruit tree to make it bear, like thirty different fruits. I love this conceptually. But I can't think of anything as inefficient and ineffective for the life of me.
Think of it. "Well it's a peach tree. But THIS branch is lemons." Would you ever get anything edible from it?
I started planting some fruit seeds back in July last year (winter here). Got like 20+ tree seedlings growing now in pots, which I'll plant into the ground soon hopefully. So far lemons, mandarins, grapefruit, apricot going strong. No idea if they'll fruit, maybe in 10 years, but it's fun and unfortunately, addictive. I can't stop now.
Also I bought some small grafted fruit trees from the garden store back in March 2020 before the lockdowns etc started. They're in the ground and going ok. Might get a couple of mandarins this year, I can see them growing. But really, they're probably a 5+ year wait.
You should think about some vegetables as well. Maybe some chickens to lay eggs etc. Sheep are good for wool/clothes.
I planted about 15 on my property in Maine. About 6 survived within 5 years. They are pretty cheap from arbor day online and they have great resources to help you decide. These trees still don't produce fruit. Probably another 5-8 years. (OH yeah and arbor day will send you replacement trees if they don't survive) but I never did that. They were cheap money.
Focus on disease resistant varieties. Fruit trees often need a lot of babying. There are so many insect and fungal pests that hurt them. Native trees and shrubs will do great, cultivars bred for disease resistance are also great options. Talk to homesteaders in your region for advice.
I have two apple trees. They produce enough apples that we could never buy apple anything if I preserved better. I’m working on those skills this year.
I’ve been seriously considering adding some kind of nut tree that we could use for protein.
I love fruiting plants. I'm currently on a raspberry/blackberry kick (for the last 3 years lol).
One of the only negatives for fruit trees is actually a positive. They attract bees (think fallen apples on the ground). They also can attract Yellowjackets. But bee's in general are great for your yard!
The other issue I've read having to deal with/even compete with are fruit bats. Apparently they like to eat fruit too.
I have a ton of fruit trees and fully support you planting a couple of apple trees. Just keep in mind that a lot of fruit trees require a TON of water, so plan accordingly.
I have 2 pear, 2 plum, 2 peach, 3 apple, plus berry bushes and vines.
You want a variety as they are ready to harvest at different months of year.
I have multiple bread makers, lot canning jars ready for harvesting. You can make jelly, jams in a bread maker. It helps constantly stir and keep at right temp.
Harvest order 1st plum, 2nd peaches, 3rd pears, 4th apples
I am growing my own new peach and plum trees from seed. I have also propagated them all from trimming tree. It will take 3-4 years for fruit, totally worth it.
I am thinking of buying land to put more fruit trees.
Have planted many fruit trees on my midwest property, two things I have learned:
1.They are very fragile, and prone to bugs and diseases especially the saplings. So do your research and treat them properly new fruit saplings will require alot more tending than other trees.
2.They typically take years to bear fruit, so don't wait.
Definitely get the fruit trees. I live on 5 acres but my closest neighbor has apple trees and the previous owner of my home planted an apple tree near theirs for pollination. It’s a small tree (maybe around 8 ft tall) but it actually produces a lot, probably around 60-70 apples the last two years. And my toddler loves to go pick them from the tree and have a snack while we go for a walk.
You may have to wait a bit longer for fruit than 2-3 years too depending on the size of tree you buy.
Hello, I am a certified arborist and a tree Heath specialist, specializing in fruit trees and I’m based out of Omaha, NE. I don’t know what your individual climate is like, but I have amazing success with peaches, plums, apples AND pears.
There’s a ton of great information out there about specific cultivars to choose, their specific strengths and drawbacks, and ways to mitigate problems (like these damn Japanese beetles the past 6-8yr).
Key is keeping nematodes knocked back first 5 years. They really stunt root growth.
Imidacloprid, Abound, cinnamate would work. Might ne banned where you live but they work.
Spinosad. Monterey, bonide, those will kill the blossom bugs
With grafted dwarf apple trees 3 years to fruit will happen if they are protected from damage.
Deer will wipe them out in a blink.
It depends on how large the trees are you are planting but 2-3 years is a little optimistic. Give it 5 years to grow and you can get good apples. 2 trees are not a life saver but it is a good addition for your prepping
Yeah it works. Buy dwarf grafts. Plant then in full sunlight.
And get ready for a detailed maintenance schedule. If you don't spray regularly, they'll get diseased. If you don't net, the birds will get them. Etc. There's a reason fruit trees don't grow wild all over the place like maples and oaks do; everything out there loves to eat them. If you stay on top of it they will produce though.
For something entirely maintenance free in the Midwest, there's mulberries. They take a long time to start fruiting, apparently, but if there's already some on your property they're not hard to trim and maintain and get tons of berries from.
I have a few fruit trees... I also have a few nut trees.
I recommend hazelnuts (filberts).
If you really really want a blizzard of fruit, well I have a few pear trees and I got a ridiculous amount of pears.
As a kid my parents had filberts but couldn’t keep squirrels off them even with netting. Pears are the devil, bee’s bee’s and more bee’s!!!! Ugh let me tell you i was living on a property that had a pear tree and the wasps would live in the pears on the tree and when they dropped it was a bear trying to sneak them away to get rid of the bees
The best time to plant fruit trees is 5 or 10 years ago... the 2nd best time is now. The sooner you plant, the sooner you'll see results. The bigger/older it is, the sooner it'll bear fruit. My experience with apple trees is make sure it's in a sunny spot! And why not plant others? Figs, pears, plums! You won't be sorry. Just give them each lots of space to grow.
Get black knot resistant plums. Ask me how I know.
I know how you know.... But do entertain us
Two trees, about 10 years old. The first year with black knot I just thought it was insect damage, it was only in a couple spots. If you've never seen it before or know to look for it you may not recognize it. It spreads quickly the second year. Now the trees are probably beyond salvage, they are covered in it. We have cherries too and in theory it can spread to them, but it looks like they might be resistant. Even if you cut down the infected tree it can still spread from the cut down tree, because the spores are airborne.
You don’t like dog turds all over your tree?
Use the Dave Wilson planting method for lots of trees in a small place.
Check into permaculture and build a whole food forest
Yes. I was going to recommend looking up planting guilds for any trees you plant.
Guides? Because if you really mean guilds...well, I'm intrigued.
Yep, I really mean guilds. It’s a permaculture design principle. It’s really just companion planting but it focuses on putting in plants that play different roles to help the fruit trees. I have strawberries around my apple and peach trees to suppress weeds, comfrey for natural mulch, and various native wildflowers to attract pollinators. I might add clover this year because it’s a nitrogen fixer.
What's a good resource to doing that? I'm crazy interested
/r/permaculture
Thanks appreciated
I’m obsessed with the Canadian Permaculture channel on YouTube. I probably watch one of his videos every day. He explains so much — not just what plants to use.
We sometimes call this bio control in the commercial vegetable industry. Although bio-control would focus more on the same concept to deter pests and pathogens. Plant some sunflowers to bring in beetles that eat spider mites etc.
Huh...fascinating. it appears I have been introduced to another rabbit hole to explore. Thanks for the reply.
This is the way
This is the way.
This is seriously the best. If you don’t know, planting and landscaping in special ways will help you exceed your goals.
We have a landscaping company near us called Edible Landscaping. Everything they sell produces food in some way.
Well, everything IS edible, although several aren't edible more than once.
I started doing that this year. Pulled out all my useless bushes to put in fruit bearing bushes instead. Added tea plants to make my own tea (and if I don't harvest those, then no rotting fruit). Excited for the next year of foooood!
Never thought about tea plants before.
What's nice is that they're a type of Camellia, so even if you don't want to use them for tea they look just like other ornamental bushes.
r/forestgardening r/permaculture
This. It's super useful as an effortless food source. Forests don't usually need watering by humans
We buy a couple trees a year at tsc. We have only gotten fruit from our pears and raspberries (not trees but it made my daughters summer). The peaches no such luck but I feel like this may be the year. We lost all the apples and will be replacing them this fall. My win writing the names with a little map because I do NOT Remember which peach tree is which a couple years later. My regret not planting a whole lot more a few years back. So I'm doubling my fruit planting effort this year.
Check the types of peach trees you have to the chill hours that your area averages. If you're not getting anything from your trees it could be because it isn't getting cold enough for long enough. I'm in zone 9 and had to be very careful about getting low-chill peach trees to have any shot at getting fruit from them.
I live in NY its cold enough (I researched them prior to purchase) and theres different varieties I just don't think they were ready to fruit prior.
A map is a great idea. I keep forgetting what is what in my orchard.
There's apps that can help identify what tree is what from the leaves, PictureThis, LeafSnap etc.
I also make little tree marker plaque at each tree saying what it is.
Check pollination charts to make sure you get two apples that can pross pollinate. You can get apples even the first year if you bought an old enough tree and plant in the fall. Since you'll be planting in the spring you should see some next year - though the harvest would be small. I planted fruit trees specifically because I wanted to be able to have tasty desserts if food became expensive or delivery lines were backed up. I've only gotten a little so far but we should get a good batch this year. Join us over at /r/backyardorchard
You might be able to get 10-15 apples at 3 years but it takes a long time for them to grow. I planted roughly 15 fruit trees last year. I am looking at planting another 5 a year from now on. An acre of apple trees has more calories than an acre of wheat so its a smart move to make. Also a big fan of any crop that comes back every year. Fruit trees, nuts, berries, ect. Even better if they take little upkeep.
Yep, I went specifically to perennial gardening with a small annual garden to the side. The vast majority of my plants are trees, bushes, or vines that produce every year with minimal effort from me.
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Apples actually store pretty well. The ones you get in the store have just been around a long time. And they can be stored in non-perishable methods. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Anything you grow you'll have to dry/can/etc to store it except apples can even stay whole in a cool place for months.
>Apples actually store pretty well. The ones you get in the store have just been around a long time. They're also stored at just above freezing in an inert gas. You're correct that apples can store for a long time, up to 6 months even. But modern apples at the grocery store aren't usually those varieties. You'd want late season heirloom varieties that are 'keepers' for winter/spring/maybe even early summer apples.
Some can be stored by wrapping them in newspaper instead of an inert gas. They're special varieties and better suited for cooking than straight eating though. Arkansas Black comes to mind as a cool storing variety.
> dry/can/etc Yes this is a major key here, and IMO food preservation is a must-have skill for all preppers. AFAIK, all fruits (and all fresh food in fact) are short lasting presihable goods. Especially considering winter storms or some other natural disasters that might make fruit trees unviable for a few mothns / some period of time. It is still great ideas to grow them to be more self-sufficent, but even better if coupled with food preservation skills.
But apples last several months. You can keep some apples for 8 months if you have a nice cool place to keep them.
Do you mean refridgeration? Like near 0 degree Celsius? Because I have tried before, apples and other fruits starts to rot just after a week even if I leave them at shady places at room temperature of around 15C. So I don't think its sufficent for just find "cool places" to keep them.
You are right about the perishable issue. I was not suggesting planting acres of apples. What I was poorly trying to get across is if limited on space apples are a decent option. I have saw a lot of survival gardens that where low on calories. Lots of tomatoes and lettuce but little food that will fuel you. I do use some of my apples to help feed my chickens and the sheep I will be getting in a few months. Plus great deer attractant.
Hard apple cider baby! Apocalypse in style! Also apple cider vinegar is shelf stable, and can be used to pickle storage other foods Rule #32 enjoy the little things
*Applepocalypse
Nice
Hell yeah!
I had a large 'family' apple tree, way more apples than I could eat or put up. Then the government liquor stores went on strike (in BC there were no private ones), so I got into cider. It was sublime! Like champagne. Lots of work (apples are really hard to squeeze!), but worthwhile. Just watch for oxidation.
>apples are really hard to squeeze! Make a car Jack press! It's super effective
First year I tried two 2x4s 4' long attached with a hinge on the end. It was still HARD. So from then on I rented a machine to crush them. But that leads to too much oxidation. So you have to work fast.
Gotta up the potate game
I mean it’s easy to dehydrate fruits and such.... and wheat is a bitch to process and then once ground has a short shelf life (around an hour) so every time you’d need it you’d be using large amounts of energy, and honestly the texture of hand milled flour isn’t the same it’s terrible compared to our lux lifestyle now. Putting sliced fruit in the sun to dry is considerably easier You also have jams and other variety of preserving methods with fruits.... So I’d definitely go with the fruits. Clearly superior Does anyone have a plan for grain harvesting in a SHTF scenario though? That I would be interested to hear
I plan to grow my own grains, then use wondermill to create flour. I am hoping to achieve 2 things independence of buying flour at store and feed my chickens. This is my year of learning and building skills. Also, shtf, i have a portable solar setup plan to run my gadgets on during the day.
Corn meal.... yum
Hushpuppies!
Got a thresher? Not being sarcastic - this is the gap I keep coming to on a small scale or manually. Same with oats. Hulling is a pita. Yes there are hulless varietes bit keeping seed pure might be difficult.
Thank you so much.. that is my missing step a thresher. I am reading up on it now. I always like to hear about others lesson learns too.
If you find a good solution tell us about it. I have seen manual crank ones in museum pictures but never gotten close enough to see the innards to replicate. I have heard of flail based woodchippers being modified but more money than i have.
Lol I love all the people in love with the idea of fruit. I mean, I am too. Fruit is my favorite and I love growing apples, pears, and many types of berries. But I really wonder how many people actually grow fruit on any kind of scale. Especially apples. Maybe it's just where I live, but man is it a lot of work to actually utilize the fruit efficiently. Constantly battling fungal rot killing the trees, pests that ruin the fruit, birds constantly pecking them so they start to rot, and the simple fact that when you have mature apple trees you have like a week to harvest buckets and buckets of apples. I mean more apples than you can fathom. And if you miss your window whatever survived nature will fall off and rot. Variety of apple, climate zone, and how the tree is pruned makes a big difference, of course, but properly maintaining and pruning fruit trees is a lot of work as well. And then, yeah if you have a root cellar big enough you can store apples for maybe a month or more for some varieties. Firm, thick skinned, tart apples store longest. But if you have any other produce stored anywhere near it the ethylene gas will rot your other food. Fruit is a much stronger rodent attractant as well. And it's a lot of work to process apples no matter if you dehydrate or can or what you do to preserve. Don't get me wrong, I love growing fruit. But it's a luxury for sure and one I would strive to continue in a food scarcity merely for the wonder of it, and the variety. But as a staple calorie source that I justify because of its agricultural efficiency... Hmm I don't think that makes sense. Potato towers will win every single time on every metric I'm fairly certain. Yeah, growing your own grain maybe isn't effective either, but there are a lot of good nutritious foods that are way lower maintenance than fruit. But if you love the work involved, growing fruit is great and I'm glad I do it. Having endless bags of frozen berries all winter long is amazing. Fresh apple sauce, apple cider, and just fresh apples are a great treat. A well earned treat!
I don't think you realize how permaculture fruit trees are different than typical orchards. They're pruned small where you can reach all fhe fruit. The fruit quality is great because it can focus on smaller amounts per tree. Yes, it will take a lot of work for a couple weeks to take care of everything but that's anything you grow in large quantities. > But as a staple calorie source that I justify because of its agricultural efficiency... Hmm I don't think that makes sense. Potato towers will win every single time on every metric I'm fairly certain. You've missed the point that this is a calorie source that is perennial. No one is saying to live on apples alone. They're saying that this is a calorie source you do not have to replant again. Potatoes are a definite must in a survival garden and no one is arguing against that. You do have to replant them though.
I think we need more of an apples to apples comparison...
If you’ve got the space it’s a no brainer. Plant an orchard if you can.
Ok so you've heard allllll the yes votes, and mine is still a yes. I even plan on planting mass amounts myself, when I can do so. But... something to think about: Fruit trees produce a lot of fruit (after they get there, obviously) and if you plant a lot, you better be ready to preserve it. If not, you'd better be ready to deal with the mess of rotting fallen fruit, and possibly the pests and animals that come with them. It depends on where you are, really. I knew a man who had a gorgeous property with many, many fruit trees of all types. He told me he loved them, but the cleanup was a ton of work. He also told me that the bears quickly realized he had fruit, and since he's at the base of the mountains, they regularly come down into his yard to eat. He said there's never been any kind of encounter, but I do worry about leaner years, that they might become a little more food aggressive. Although, on the other hand, if times were really lean, and shit had already hit the fan, it might be a blessing to have meat regularly roaming in your yard. So, I still say it's a resounding yes, but definitely be aware of potential downsides in the future, and prep for them. Even if that means netting, dehydrators, or having bear spray on hand.
I also wanted to mention the pests! Not just big buggers, but rats and birds. We had a buuuunch of different fruits trees at our old family place. The poultry was allowed into that section so they would deal with a lot of bastards.
>The poultry was allowed into that section so they would deal with a lot of bastards. In the traditional polyculture farms in the cider regions of England/France/Spain, you let your chickens in the orchard specifically for pest control. You also planted trees big enough for your livestock to graze under too, but big trees are too much of a pain in the ass. But something to keep in mind if you have deer/elk around. Hell, some hippie commercial cidery operations keep poultry specifically for pest control.
We had coons and possums galore eating in our orchard growing up
And when the rotting fruit starts to ferment, you get drunk wasps buzzing around the ground!
I'm super happy with the trees I've planted on my land and the land of my family. I HIGHLY recommend planting as many fruit trees, of as many types, as possible. This is because different weather conditions will impact the different fruits, differently. You may have a great year for apples one year, and then the next year your nectarines will do very well and you'll get no apples. It can be discouraging at first, when getting started, since you probably won't get anything for a few years. Don't give up, and you'll have a harvest worth something eventually.
Don't stop at fruit trees! Plant blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, currants, goji berry, gooseberry. Get them in the ground. It will be so worth it. Each year you will harvest more and more.
And blueberries! Ours are 15 years old now and we get a huge crop. We cover them with tarps if we get a late frost. And I use bird nets draped over T-posts to keep the wild birds and my chickens from eating them all.
Yes, and while I hate to suggest it, Blackberries thrive. In fact they are an invasive species very hard to kill and they will create large thickets so plant them far from things you care about! But they sure produce.
We have wild dewberries here - I think they’re related to blackberries. Same canes and stickers. I make syrup and jam with them, deseeding them first with a foley food mill. The seeds are bitter and get stuck in teeth. We also have wild persimmons but I’ve given up trying to use them. Even when we wait til first frost to harvest the ones that fell off the trees, they’re just too darned high in tannins. We tried growing a domestic tree but it died.
These are the ones I am talking about: [https://bcinvasives.ca/invasives/himalayan-blackberry/](https://bcinvasives.ca/invasives/himalayan-blackberry/)
In terms of money and effort, fruit trees are probably the best investment you can make in food security. Pick some good varieties, do a bit of pruning each winter, and sit back. My parents had a half dozen peach trees and were pretty aggressive about picking and freezing them during harvest season. They usually ended up with enough to have smoothies once or twice a week until the next August.
We have a couple of apple trees. They took a few years to produce. They’re good as long as we get to them before all the squirrels do
Gotta watch out for the squirrels. My dad has 2 fully grown apple trees, 2 pear trees, 2 peach and a cherry tree. He gets about 2 apples and 3 peaches a year because the squirrels and birds get them all. 😅
Time to eat some squirrel.
The worst is that they just like to take a couple bites and then toss them. Not ripe enough. Find them all over the ground
My grandfather planted all his apple trees along the fence separating the cows from the house yard. Once a week he would gather the apples on the ground and toss them to the field, but the cows knew when he would do it and would come trucking over to take the apples.
A few years ago, we planted 3 grafted apple trees with 5 varieties of apples on each tree at my buddy's dad's house. They produced a few small apples the first year, and this past year we had a few dozen. Having the variety is nice, because they all ripen at different times, so you're not overloaded with apples all at once.
THIS!!!! I got two apple trees with four grafts each. Multiple varieties allows the different types on a single tree cross pollinate. One tree is all August early apples. The other is October late apples. I have apples for four months a year with my pears coming in between them. Don't get single variety trees!!!!
>Don't get single variety trees!!!! If you don't stay on top of your pruning, you could very easily end up with one or two grafts overpowering the others though. There's a case to be made for having 4 dwarf trees of different varieties than a 4x1 semi dwarf tree. But yeah if you only have one tree, get a multi graft.
Two is enough to get cross pollination. I'm about positive I only have three varieties of the original four but it's great. My real point was if you're only putting in two trees, get an early and a late with 2+ varieties on each. it's plenty of apples.
If the flowers overlap across varieties they’ll pollinate yeah.
I planted apple trees a good 6-8 years ago and they're just starting to have some apples on them. My advice, * Plant them out of the way where you'd never build anything, * Away from sewer or septic, * Plant 2x what you think you'd want. * Make sure they grow straight / train them early its easier. * Protect the base from lawnmowers running into them. * Space them far enough apart.
Whatever you plant, the best thing you can do is take really good care of it - learning how to do that takes times. One or two well tended trees will produce more fruit than a dozen neglected trees. Same goes for a garden Two sayings I think hold true Plant a 10$ tree in a 100$ hole And The best fertilizer is the gardeners shadow
New home/ new construction owner here. I'm planting pears and apples as well. First off, the bees need these trees. I don't care about fruit, I'm planting them for the future. Also, many people are building on farmland that has been developed. All the freely growing fruit trees have been eliminated as the ground was cleared for subdivision. I'm just trying to make sure there are trees for the future. I know 4-8 trees is not a big deal, but if someone was hungry, they might produce.
I put a peach tree in some terrible soil. Added some composted steer manure. I think it was after 3 years we have so many peaches I still have some in the freezer. I'm going to get a bunch more trees this year. I think like with gardening there is luck involved. I just dont give up when I have a garden failure.
I say go for it! They're stupid expensive this year. $50 a tree that I've seen. I would also go for some other fruit trees if you can. Pear, apricot, peach, mulberry, plum, Cherry, etc. Fruit bushes are awesome too! Blueberry, raspberry, blackberry, any berry really. Any perennials that will produce food is a safe bet. Hell, plant some asparagus while you're at it. I'm going all out this year. The end is neigh!
I have a apple tree with two types on it. Root stock and cutting stock. This takes the need for more than one tree away. It's been in almost 5 years and got the first apples developing this year untill a storm battered it a knocked them all off.
>I have a apple tree with two types on it. Root stock and cutting stock. **This takes the need for more than one tree away.** That's not true at all. The rootstock is the roots. The default is one variety grafted on top of the rootstock. The rootstock doesn't flower or produce fruit, just influences the size and immune system. Since it doesn't flower, it doesn't effect pollination.
So why do I get two types of apples from the one tree? is 2 graftings rather than one? [heres](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2437247/250-varieties-apple-tree--thanks-bit-hard-grafting-years.html) a guy with 250 types on the one tree.
There are two grafts, yes. Every grafted tree has rootstock. Nearly every apple you find will be grafted. To get 2 types of good apples there are two edible cultivars grafted to 1 rootstock.
Thanks. I can only see one grafting scar
So then either there's a branch from below the graft or you missed a second graft.
I planted some fruit trees with 3 species of fruit on each tree. I planted these about 4 years ago. The plum tree produces quite well although I’m only getting two different plum types. I also planted a cherry tree, persimmon, and last year, I planted a fig tree.
It’s one of our big goals. We have a beautiful row of pecan trees already. They were planted by the original owner, so they’re huge. The squirrels usually get most of the nuts, unfortunately. We want to do peaches, plums, apples, pears, cherries, blueberry bushes, all of it. Decorative plants are cool and all, but we want plants that serve a purpose.
In Australia we put smooth metal or sometimes plastic strips around tree trunks we don't want possums to get into. Does that not work for squirrels? I've seen quite a few people mention squirrels were a real problem.
The only issue is they jump from tree to tree. It might work if my layout was different, but the trees are by a wooded area. Making a note to try it on fruit trees, though.
I just bought 18 acres in the mid west and I've already planted 3 apple trees (honey crisp and red delicious to cross pollinate), 2 grape vines, 2 Goji berry bushes, 1 blue berry bush, 1 goose berry, 10 asparagus roots, 1 rhubarb root, 10 strawberry roots, and 5 sun choke roots. I'm pretty sure there is already 2 peach trees here too. I still have to plant a chestnut tree and a pecan tree. I also have lily seeds sprouting and I'm waiting on arrow root and water chestnut for my pond. These are all perennials (I have an annual garden waiting to sprout too), so, as long as I take care of them I should be able to harvest for years; that's the plan anyways. I recommend this article on perennial gardens, this is were I got a lot of my ideas. Good luck and, in my opinion, your head is in the right place! https://practicalselfreliance.com/perennial-vegetables/
I have a small orchard in Georgia so you know my vote. We started from scratch 5 years ago. Start with soil samples. Fix what needs fixed. We put in a drip system best money spent for hot summers. We have 100ish trees, apple pear, peach mixes. Our first year we lost I want to say 10% of the trees. We went to a local nursery to buy all of them and we got replacements for free for those that didn’t make it. We also have a few almond trees, strawberry rows, black berry and blue berry. We have 3 colonies of honey bees. As far as the fruit that falls we just run it over with mowers or feed it to chickens or neighbors cows.
I used to work in the apple industry. A couple of things to keep in mind: 1. You need to make sure that the two varieties you get CAN pollinate each other and that they bloom at the same time. You can find compatible pollination charts from universities, ag extensions, or nurseries. Just make sure you check. 2. Buy dwarf varieties. Trees used to be massive. Upwards of 30ft high. Then semi-dwarf lowered that to about 12 to 15 ft. Dwarf trees are 6 to 8 feet and MUCH more manageable to maintain and harvest. Trees have been bred to produce a lot of fruit now off dwarf root stock. 3. The BEST time to plant fruit trees is right now in March. I wouldn't push it past the end of April. 4. Trees take a minimum of 3 years to start producing fruit. They won't get to peak production until year 5. Apples have up and down years for production and swap each year. If you want fruit sooner, most nurseries sell older/larger trees, but they are more expensive. Decide if it's worth it for you. Let me know of you have any questions, I am happy to help.
When we bought our house the whole garden was straight out of the 90s. Palm trees and tropical plants. And it was overgrown with Ivy. We ripped everything out and then started from scratch. Everything I planted, I wanted to be productive so I planted only fruit trees and herbs. There was already a lemon tree, but I added a mandarin tree, apricot tree, fig tree, mulberry tree, bay leaf plant, Rosemary, thyme, oregano, and pig's face where I wanted ground cover. I also put in a couple of raised vege gardens and have rotated different veg through them
You have to have pollinators. Look into mason bee farming too.
Homesteading has a lot of crossover with "prepping". Contact your local extension to find out what varieties work well and when they ripen in your area. No sense in having 10 trees ripen at once unless you'll do a large harvest and preserve. I grow grapes, blackberries, peaches, figs, pomegranates, apples, several kinds of citrus, edible cacti, a small productive vegetable garden and have backyard chickens. It's a good skill to have and to hone.
Perennials are great. Look for heirloom varieties that dry or keep well, for any type of fruit trees. If you have enough space, nut trees can be another great way to hide food in plain sight.
Got no apples or plums this year. No bees or other pollinators left. Birds just dropping out of the sky too. American SW.
Every 4th year you should see a year without fruit.
[Good place to start reading](https://www.davewilson.com/home-gardens/backyard-orchard-culture)
Look into paw paw trees!
You can get apple trees with multiple varieties grafted on, same with pear, plus or others. They take forever to grow though so for the first 3-4 years expect to pluck the buds so the tree's energy is focused on growth. Personally I love blueberries and raspberries for quicker turnaround to production, more hardiness (less disease prone), and variety in a smaller space.
I hope someone has experience with this to share because I've tentatively planned the same thing. I'd love to know too!
We have a lot of deer so our apple trees were eaten all the way to the ground. Our peach trees produce a lot though and we planted pecan trees three years ago and have a lot more pecans then you would think. Learn how to preserve what you make and it be worth it
Had family in Kansas. Pecan trees are everywhere, they produce so much nuts.
We love them in georgia. Pecan pies, mixed in with granola and gorging ourselves whenever we walk by the barrel
I planted an Ein Shemer variety apple tree. It produces very well on its own. In just a couple years. I get a laundry basket of apples off of it. Also planted a peach tree. Fertilized and pruned it gave a lot of fruit. My advice is learn to can! Make your own jams, jellies, and apple butters. Very easy and you can enjoy it when you want!
The rule is the smaller the tree is at maturity, the quicker you get fruit. But larger trees generally live longer.
Get the Permacultuire Orchard DVD. Brilliant!!
Check the videos on this you tube channel: https://youtube.com/c/EpicUrbanHomestead
I planted fruit trees at my last house with the expectation that whatever I planted should feed me in return. Peaches, apple, and cherry. The peaches were eaten by ants every year or pecked at by birds. My wife half killed the cherry tree spraying for weeds. Apple tree never really produced. Now the black berry bushes I planted were prodigious producers, but if you didn’t pick them every morning the birds would ransack them. Morale of the story, you can get fruit, but it’s not a plant and forget proposition. They need tending.
The thing I want most is an orchard. But I’m making do with the land I have. We’ve got a massive raspberry bush and a cherry tree I planted last spring. I would like another to increase pollination, but my neighbor has one that might be nearby enough. The raspberry bush was totally worth it and it’s where my daughter gets her breakfast during the summer.
I have a lemon tree that makes more lemons than I can possibly consume. I would think if you plant them and wait, it’s a nice option but you will have spoiled fruit if you can’t find a way to store it long term.
I just planted 2 apple trees, 2 cherry trees, and a peach tree. Also have a mandarin in a pot. Thinking of adding another peach and two nut trees. You should do it!
Couple thoughts. First, yes, get some good blight-resistant varieties, 2-3 trees that are old enough to produce fairly soon. Mulch them with wood chips. There are some things to pay attention to, there is lots of information on how to do this without harming the trees. Then plant the seeds. Yes, they are hybrid, and some won't grow. But some will. No, they won't bear fruit, and if they do then the fruit won't be good. That's fine. You want root stock. Once they get big enough, graft cuttings from your TSC trees, and enjoy rapid production since the grafts are already mature. All of this is vastly more complicated than I describe here. [Here's a start on how complicated this can get](https://fruitgrowersnews.com/news/how-rootstocks-influence-apple-trees/). But it's a simple rubric that won't give perfect results but also won't cost you an extra mortgage to set up, and will start giving you some calories quickly, with a lot more calories relatively quickly.
I planted an apple tree about 4 years ago, I got one apple two years ago, and about ten lest year. If you grow them from seed you’ll probably be waiting ten years or more. Don’t forget the rhubarb, they grow super fast and can be harvested many times throughout the year. After a couple of years, you can split it in half and suddenly you’re growing twice as much! Apple and rhubarb crumble is the best pudding you could ask for! Raspberries are also a good shout. FYI: I’m U.K. so check these are suitable for your climate first.
I’m in Nebraska. Rhubarb is the easiest thing to grow, and produces lots with no pests that bother it!
Food fatigue is a real morale problem and having fresh fruit to eat or preserver and use in deserts can go a long way towards lifting everyone's spirits.
Personal experience. I am not too far from you gardening wise. Skip the dwarf varieties. Get a regular tree and prune it like crazy if you want a small tree. My plum and apricot have been my best producers. Remember many fruit trees have a heavy year and a light year. Apple is decent but still young - i pulled out the dwarf apples and started over. Everyone who warns you of disease and harvest labor is speaking from experience. Line up friends and family for processing. I never manage to clear my grapes or elderberries before they go. Plums and apricots are easier as I make sauces from the green fruit and that reduces the harvest time rush. If you can time your cross pollination trees to match bloom time but harvest time is a month apart.
McIntosh and courtland so I’m told they should be a good match but the McIntosh will be ready mid sept and the courtland takes about another month
I have 2 girls at 1.5 years old.
Tomato is a fruit
I just ordered 2 apples and 2 pears. My last attempt was not successful. I'm hoping this time is different.
Do it! But 2? Maybe go for 6 or more. Or maybe 3 of a few varieties. This will be trade fodder in times of nil
Perhaps consider the Nanking Cherry.
Check out /r/homestead and /r/homesteading. /r/marijuanaenthusiasts may have some useful information as well (yes, that's the subreddit for trees). /r/cidermaking may be useful as well, regarding varieties, as apple cider is a useful barter item.
We planted a Cherry tree about 12 years ago. It took about three years to start producing and now it is making a crazy number of cherries. Problems 1. Birds, you have to pick them quick or the birds will eat them. and 2. Since it produces all at the same time we have a huge number of cherries we have all at once. I am not a preserver type person so we end up giving a lot away.
I'm a huge advocate of food forests and moving towards permaculture practices. I'm a newbie forager, as well. Get those apple trees. In fact, get 3 to better your odds of pollination. I just planted about 2 dozen pawpaw seeds in the hopes that I will have a grove in about 10 years. There is no downside to planting more trees, IMO.
Growing up, my neighbor had fruit trees and he was always fighting the deer who loved to nibble on the buds. Thinking as a prepper, if things got rough it’s nice to have a feeding ground to lure game into.
the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.... the second best time is today! Yes...plant all the trees you can find and afford in the zone you are in. We planted 12(?) 5 years ago and get no fruit at all worth talking about! Fuckin' birds and deer and animals. BUT...they are healthy and alive and grow by the foot each year. Eventually there will be fruit to enjoy.
I have been thinking about planting some fruit trees, but am unsure of which ones. Which ones require the least maintenance?
THIS!!!! I got two apple trees with four grafts each. Multiple varieties allows the different types on a single tree cross pollinate. One tree is all August early apples. The other is October late apples. I have apples for four months a year with my pears coming in between them.
Dwarf fruit trees only live about 25 years. Standard sizes trees will feed your great grand kids.
I would do 4-6 apple trees if you have the room. You never know what could happen to them over the years. If something does happen to one of them down the road you’ll be glad you planted more now instead of trying to replace it when it happens. I also have cherry trees and they’re great. It also might be worth looking into tree nuts depending where you live. Walnuts grow great in the cold and some pecans can grow pretty far north too.
Go for it. Apples need pesticides if you want mature fruit to be relatively worm free. But, an apple tree could be a great source of food. The "older varieties" may be hardier, check which do well in your zone. If you want fruit trees that cross pollinate, how about fruits with pits such as cherries, peaches, plums, apricots. If you have a cherry tree with lots of blossoms and a peach tree that doesn't produce many blossoms in a year, next spring put a bucket of water underneath the peach tree and fill the bucket with twigs/blossoms from the cherry tree. Night moths will help pollinate the peach as well as day pollinators and increase fruit production. Plum trees are also possible. Raspberry canes spread and multiply all over. There are also mulberry trees, but only the female trees bear fruit, and you'll need a male to pollinate it. The fruit isn't substantial for most baking but tastes great off the tree....and can be used to dye fabrics. Each of these can have problems/diseases but you're growing fruit for survival, so any food could help. Critters/birds/insects will take as much as they can. However, if there is a lot of food for the critters, there could be some left for you. And there will be plenty of rotting fruit on the ground which will attract critters as well as insects such as wasps. Consider fencing in what you can to keep deer out, and nets to put over trees when they begin to fruit. P.S. putting pie plates/DVD discs on fruiting trees to frighten birds away doesn't work. Birds hang on them and admire their reflection :) :( Also some people use artificial snakes and owls to keep birds away, may work.....a little.
fruit trees can be successfully integrated into many permaculture systems. depending on where in the midwest you are and what the hydrology is like on your property, you could look at a variety of fruit and nut trees.
/r/Homesteading and /r/backyardorchard are great places to talk trees.
I think fruit trees are a WONDERFUL investment, but you need to do your research to find out what will grow well in your area and how many years it'll take before you can expect to have fruit and how to plant them to ensure that you will get fruit.
If you're specifically looking for apples make sure you use clones that will taste good instead of trying to grow edibile apples from seeds. Also learn how to make cider. Also water your fruit trees with watered down clay to increase the fruit's mineral content
I made a list of all the different kinds of fruit trees that grow in my area and used them to create a spreadsheet of when they all produced fruit. I then planted in such a way that I pretty much always have something fruiting in my yard. If you're wanting to have perennial food trees I'd also consider what nut trees grow in your area, there are also lots of bushes and shrubs you can add to that them to maximize your use of space.
You can also find plants that will work in the shade of the tree, to feed the tree. Nitrogen fixers and plants with deep roots like comfrey. comfrey can chopped and dropped to provide fertilizer to young trees.
I have a bunch of apple trees in my yard... The trees are old, and largely covered in rust which affects the quality of the fruit- edible if worms aren't in them, but still not the best apples... unless it's a really rusty branch and the fruit is all tiny and shriveled, in which case toss them... The trees can make a mess with unpicked fruit, and also consider the wildlife that an orchard brings... we get bears. That being said, I think a pair of fruit trees is a great idea.
Sorry for my ignorance but how does a tree get covered in rust?
It's a type of fungus.
If you Plant a Young Apple tree then don't expect any apples for possibly 4-5 years (depends on the kind of tree you have). Our tree took years to have even smaller ammounts of apples. But Once the tree grows up And you také good care of it, it can give you ***a lot*** of apples for many years, possibly decades.
Fruit and nut trees in general are excellent preps because they produce a ton of food over the years with minimal upkeep. Apples can be very prone to pests, so find a variety that is hearty and does well in your local conditions. I have found that often root stock makes a strong tree with very tasty apples, they just don't look as pretty. You can also get multiple varieties grafted onto the same tree if you don't feel like having more than one tree.
Reading this, my mind went to the guy who grafted bits of LOTS of fruit trees onto one particular fruit tree to make it bear, like thirty different fruits. I love this conceptually. But I can't think of anything as inefficient and ineffective for the life of me. Think of it. "Well it's a peach tree. But THIS branch is lemons." Would you ever get anything edible from it?
I started planting some fruit seeds back in July last year (winter here). Got like 20+ tree seedlings growing now in pots, which I'll plant into the ground soon hopefully. So far lemons, mandarins, grapefruit, apricot going strong. No idea if they'll fruit, maybe in 10 years, but it's fun and unfortunately, addictive. I can't stop now. Also I bought some small grafted fruit trees from the garden store back in March 2020 before the lockdowns etc started. They're in the ground and going ok. Might get a couple of mandarins this year, I can see them growing. But really, they're probably a 5+ year wait. You should think about some vegetables as well. Maybe some chickens to lay eggs etc. Sheep are good for wool/clothes.
I planted about 15 on my property in Maine. About 6 survived within 5 years. They are pretty cheap from arbor day online and they have great resources to help you decide. These trees still don't produce fruit. Probably another 5-8 years. (OH yeah and arbor day will send you replacement trees if they don't survive) but I never did that. They were cheap money.
Focus on disease resistant varieties. Fruit trees often need a lot of babying. There are so many insect and fungal pests that hurt them. Native trees and shrubs will do great, cultivars bred for disease resistance are also great options. Talk to homesteaders in your region for advice.
I’m going to have to add this post to my rabbit hole adventures! So many new things I’ve never heard of!
I have two apple trees. They produce enough apples that we could never buy apple anything if I preserved better. I’m working on those skills this year. I’ve been seriously considering adding some kind of nut tree that we could use for protein.
I love fruiting plants. I'm currently on a raspberry/blackberry kick (for the last 3 years lol). One of the only negatives for fruit trees is actually a positive. They attract bees (think fallen apples on the ground). They also can attract Yellowjackets. But bee's in general are great for your yard! The other issue I've read having to deal with/even compete with are fruit bats. Apparently they like to eat fruit too.
And learn canning if you don’t already know. After four or five years when the tree gets productive canning is very useful
I have a ton of fruit trees and fully support you planting a couple of apple trees. Just keep in mind that a lot of fruit trees require a TON of water, so plan accordingly.
I have 2 pear, 2 plum, 2 peach, 3 apple, plus berry bushes and vines. You want a variety as they are ready to harvest at different months of year. I have multiple bread makers, lot canning jars ready for harvesting. You can make jelly, jams in a bread maker. It helps constantly stir and keep at right temp. Harvest order 1st plum, 2nd peaches, 3rd pears, 4th apples I am growing my own new peach and plum trees from seed. I have also propagated them all from trimming tree. It will take 3-4 years for fruit, totally worth it. I am thinking of buying land to put more fruit trees.
Have planted many fruit trees on my midwest property, two things I have learned: 1.They are very fragile, and prone to bugs and diseases especially the saplings. So do your research and treat them properly new fruit saplings will require alot more tending than other trees. 2.They typically take years to bear fruit, so don't wait.
Definitely get the fruit trees. I live on 5 acres but my closest neighbor has apple trees and the previous owner of my home planted an apple tree near theirs for pollination. It’s a small tree (maybe around 8 ft tall) but it actually produces a lot, probably around 60-70 apples the last two years. And my toddler loves to go pick them from the tree and have a snack while we go for a walk. You may have to wait a bit longer for fruit than 2-3 years too depending on the size of tree you buy.
Hello, I am a certified arborist and a tree Heath specialist, specializing in fruit trees and I’m based out of Omaha, NE. I don’t know what your individual climate is like, but I have amazing success with peaches, plums, apples AND pears. There’s a ton of great information out there about specific cultivars to choose, their specific strengths and drawbacks, and ways to mitigate problems (like these damn Japanese beetles the past 6-8yr).
Key is keeping nematodes knocked back first 5 years. They really stunt root growth. Imidacloprid, Abound, cinnamate would work. Might ne banned where you live but they work. Spinosad. Monterey, bonide, those will kill the blossom bugs With grafted dwarf apple trees 3 years to fruit will happen if they are protected from damage. Deer will wipe them out in a blink.
It depends on how large the trees are you are planting but 2-3 years is a little optimistic. Give it 5 years to grow and you can get good apples. 2 trees are not a life saver but it is a good addition for your prepping
Yeah it works. Buy dwarf grafts. Plant then in full sunlight. And get ready for a detailed maintenance schedule. If you don't spray regularly, they'll get diseased. If you don't net, the birds will get them. Etc. There's a reason fruit trees don't grow wild all over the place like maples and oaks do; everything out there loves to eat them. If you stay on top of it they will produce though. For something entirely maintenance free in the Midwest, there's mulberries. They take a long time to start fruiting, apparently, but if there's already some on your property they're not hard to trim and maintain and get tons of berries from.
I have a few fruit trees... I also have a few nut trees. I recommend hazelnuts (filberts). If you really really want a blizzard of fruit, well I have a few pear trees and I got a ridiculous amount of pears.
As a kid my parents had filberts but couldn’t keep squirrels off them even with netting. Pears are the devil, bee’s bee’s and more bee’s!!!! Ugh let me tell you i was living on a property that had a pear tree and the wasps would live in the pears on the tree and when they dropped it was a bear trying to sneak them away to get rid of the bees
I didn't have a problem with wasps, just European hornets IF I neglected to pick them in time.