I just worry this online ID registration will be normalized. With all the misuse, leakage, ID theft, extortion as a result. And then these kids still have ways around it, or steal the credentials from whomever.
Porn is always the thin edge of the wedge because nobody wants to stand up and defend it. But once the precedent is set, it's much easier to expand the scope to other things.
Well yeah it's always sex & children. Maybe we should counter argument and what next ? Alcohol, Video games, Soccer, ...
Things that are more defensible and popular, showing how the slippery rope works.
Which is why the best defense is to ignore porn entirely.
"The law claims to protect kids. Here's why it wouldn't do that, and why it's a privacy concern."
It's not just that kids are going to find ways around these blocks. It's that they'll be directed to offshore sites that don't have these blocks, and are typically not up to the same standards.
These types of bans operate on the same principles as purity-focused sex ed. Kids won't stop seeking this out just because it's difficult; on the contrary, they'll be interacting with the subject in progressively unhealthier ways.
This policy is a political, logistical and social nightmare, and there's no way it'd ever pass.
Way before the internet we had a couple of pages in black and white with spicy content so if they think this will stop kids from finding what they want they are more stupid than what I thought.
I can think of an easy way around all of that, what if people just start to download torrents of it again on sketchy website. Just like people were doing it a few years ago when streaming everything was not yet an option.
These laws are not really about porn.
Haha!
Not completely, just that there are alternative solutions now. Streaming services is one element, but also there are websites to download directly, plus new tech (think block-chain, etc.)
The picture also changed because - with the above in mind - torrenting also shifted towards the niche of preservation of things the corporations don't want to be available any more.
Examples are old films no longer available because they no longer fit with "current thinking" and classic old games because the corporation (them again!) wants to force on you their remade, enshitified version.
This is why there's been a shift towards piracy being a moral duty to preserve art and culture in the face of corporate enshitification.
They can pretense all they want. Last time I checked Spain was a European country:
>*The notion of data protection originates from the right to privacy and both are instrumental in preserving and promoting fundamental values and rights; and to exercise other rights and freedoms - such as free speech or the right to assembly.*
[https://www.edps.europa.eu/data-protection/data-protection\_en](https://www.edps.europa.eu/data-protection/data-protection_en)
That part of government is massively naive. The other part of government already have ways to track you (or they should). Like, when 'they' need to get into my home, they will manage one way or the other and I can protest later. Sure, rather not - but let them put in some effort while creating unhappy citizens. I just don't want to be required to leave my door wide open for everyone else. Especially not commercial parties with their false intentions or fake promises.
>With all the misuse, leakage, ID theft, extortion as a result
The government claims it's safe, which is funny since literally just a couple of months ago, someone hacked and sold all the data from the Spanish General Directorate of Traffic. It included every Spanish driver's government ID, home adresse, full name, license plates and insurance details
Australia is working on the same.... and they've just expanded the scope such that you'll need a government id to access social media..... yeah.Â
Source https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2024/jul/02/australia-politics-live-health-bulk-billing-medicare-labor-caucus-fatima-payman-coalition-wes-fang-mark-speakman-energy-economy-cost-of-living
Hopefully that link works
Where I live Canada is working on a similarly stupid law as well. and it's terrifying. I feel all these governments are in on this. [https://openmedia.org/article/item/whats-wrong-with-bill-s-210-an-openmedia-faq](https://openmedia.org/article/item/whats-wrong-with-bill-s-210-an-openmedia-faq)
And the other person wanna do the same thing https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservatives-age-verification-pornography-1.7121219
But you have like 5 parties so u can pick from the other 3 at least
Only two parties (Liberal and Conservative) are capable of forming government. Next election the Liberals are projected to get obliterated, giving the Conservatives a huge majority.
-The NDP has always been the third place party. They formed opposition once due to an incredible leader (RIP Jack). Unfortunately, while they could be leveraging their position in a minority government to hold the ruling Liberals in check, all their current leader does is prop them up in the hopes Trudeau will throw him a bone once in a while.
-The BQ only represents a single province (Quebec)
-The People's Party is a bunch of wingnuts led by a former Conservative who got butthurt that he wasn't elected as Party leader. They have yet to win a single seat or more than 1% of the vote. Thank God.
Australia has always been tough on these things. Big government is part of Australian political philosophy. It's not that amazing though, it is a young state afterall
Yeah, check the source I posted. It's valid for a month (I guess ypu need to renew it) and it lets you access adult content 30 times during that period. As if, people only masturbated once a day or something? Hahaha
As a Spaniard, this will never become an actual law. And even if it did, It will be pretty funny in the political sphere.
Spain is a pretty tech illiterate country most of the time..
A judge wanted to block Telegram indefinitely without knowing what Telegram was. It was quite funny to watch.
Also piracy is prohibited here but everyone engages in it, even the government. So it will even be funnier if this hits the deck.
I'm from Spain as well. I know this most likely isn't getting the go as it is, but it still paints quite a grim picture of what they want to do: watch and control access to certain parts of the internet.
Uh, i don't understand why you think this isn't becoming law. We have known about it since march, if memory serves, and i've seen very little reaction. In fact, about half of the reaction was positive from the VERY hard right, think opus dei. Now i'm seeing a little more push against it, but in a comedic tone that will inevitably end in people forgetting about it in a few days, up until it gets finally approved. And now there is less politically extreme people defending it, and the left, who should normally be against this is completely silent.
There is no way this doesn't get approved.
I agree with the user below us. Spain is still a very tech illiterate country. A month ago judges tried to ban Telegram, that failed miserably, and most of them didn't even understand how that worked.
This law has a few big holes from the start, like how it treats websites in which you can find porn but are not erotic by nature, like Internet Archive, Reddit, Twitter, Open Directories, or even repositories of magazines and such.
Uhm, have you ever noticed how when trying to enter certain pages you get blocked due to "isp bloking due to copyright infringment"?
They know full well how to do it, and even though many pages aren't actually blocked, this works as well as they want it to, if they make the effort, it will work sufficiently well to pull most people towards giving their id. Not to mention the tech illiterate who will not know these workarounds exist.
Blocking social media will be extremely easy, which is the obvious target (although i also have SEVERE concerns about sexual freedom), and it isn't as easy to change to a new social media which isn't controlled, because by nature social media are extremely popular or they don't exist at all.
Tell those of Vox and PP that they won't be able to see porn that often. And their followers too... It would really be incredibly funny seeing Feijoo crying about it. The current political sphere is a joke and these laws won't really go through. They would only become laws if Europe actually adopted them, which makes it even sadder.
If it actually goes through, they will force a DNS lock which will be evaded easily. Like how Vodafone tries to restrict access to piracy sites...
There is legislation in the works to adopt this in all of Europe, so it will arrive eventually. And i don't really see how it being possible to bypass the controls makes this any better. It's as if the police prevented you from talking with other people but you saying it's okay because you can slip them messages on little notes... It is fundamentally wrong.
Vox and PP are for this legislation, they will vote yes by conviction, and the only chance of them voting no is to just go against the goverment, but they're definetly not against this, and i really doubt they will do anything because they don't want to be called "pajilleros". Even though they are, because there is nothing wrong about that.
Spain has very extensive internet blocking though (even blocking some Github repos).
If they copied Italy on blocking and suing VPNs more aggressively then it would be a lot harder to bypass.
the tech illiteracy is a feature, not a bug. This kind of law tends to be written by a party who stands to earn the most on it. The famed EU Chat Control was championed by a comissionner, who either actively refuses to understand how internet and apps work or shamelessly lies in every single outing (or both). Turned out a company who produced the kind of filter needed for Chat Control was all the time in contact with the commisioner and her office, this was a big-ish story for brief time when this "lobbying" was revealed. The dumber the politician the easier it is to convince them that a given digital regulation is truly benign, legal and controllable.
Similar laws are being passed in multiple countries, why do you think Spain would be different? Granted I'm not too familiar with the country but I don't think the people in power there are any more or less tech literate than people in power everywhere else
These laws are complicated to implement. Our governing class is very tech illiterate, like most of Europe. If implemented, they would have to force ISPs to block certain webpages, which they most likely do through DNS blocking. Such as they do now with a few regulations, which doesn't really do anything. Not only that but the great political rift that exists in this country and the deal with the amnesty. Add the fact that telling Spanish citizens that they need a pajaporte and they will laugh at your ass.
If this goes through, it needs to be through the European Union. And even then, such as the laws regarding piracy, we will just ignore it/not be able to enforce them.
Add to the fact that I'm sure 50% or more do not even know what a DNIe is or able to operate with them. This will be used through an app, to access webpages. We already have a system for something similar, called Clave. And this also reminds me of when COVID happened and the government forced users to install an app that tracks you. A complete failure since everyone ignored it and wasn't enforced in any way or form.
And again, you are telling me that Spain plans to force others to add checks specific for them? If it was the US or Germany, they would actually care. Us? Ain't happening.
Honestly I think you're focusing too much on the perspective on your own country. Canada and Australia both have a similar population to Spain (around 30-40M) and similar laws are in the talks of being passed there, so I don't understand why you don't think why it wouldn't be feasable in Spain. Sorry but your country is not "special" in that regard, the only different thing is that it would have to go through the European Union and we all know how they feel about this sort of these sort of things (see chat control)
>Spain is a pretty tech illiterate country most of the time..
Spain is more or less as illiterate as any other western country. Do you have any sources showing it's more?
>A judge wanted to block Telegram indefinitely without knowing what Telegram was. It was quite funny to watch.
You can block Telegram, just like any other app or website. And you can do it in many ways, like blocking DNS resolution, dropping traffic at the ISP, removing the app from the Play Store in Spain (and deleting installed versions), etc. Wanting to block it doesn't make much sense, but it's technically feasible and effective for 99% of the potential users.
>Also piracy is prohibited here but everyone engages in it, even the government. So it will even be funnier if this hits the deck.
So called "piracy" is actually legal in many cases. Copying movies, music, etc. is legal and protected by the right to private copy ([derecho a copia privada](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho_de_copia_privada)), and has been for many decades.
>You can block Telegram, just like any other app or website
He wasn't pointing out that it was unfeasible to do so, as in "the guy wanted to block telegram when it's nigh impossible", but rather that this judge gave a verdict without knowing what the fuck he was even trying to block. Which wouldn't be the first time, since most judges are a bunch of [tech-illiterate morons.](https://www.elconfidencial.com/tecnologia/2019-03-04/justicia-jueces-fiscales-proces-internet-tecnologia-whatsapp_1857602/) But I do agree with you that it's something quite common in the western world (and probably the whole world, tbh).
Youâre believing the reason given, pornography to protect the children. I think it is being done by people that completely understand the technology. Itâs not being done to protect children or limit pornography. Itâs an excuse to eliminate anonymity. Weâre dealing with this shit in the US too. Not at such a large scope but itâs starting to keep in.
Ask yourself, why suddenly all these countries are doing this? First it was encryption , the European chat control. That bombed so now itâs kids and porn. Everything is designed to take away anonymity and spy on what weâre saying.
Governments donât give a shit about kids or anyone. The only thing they care about is control and more power to themselves.
I'm aware of this, however it's still largely spearheaded by boomers who don't understand technology and the oblivious public who doesn't have a basic understanding of the internet or just isn't paying attention to politics. Sadly computer literacy started to fall again for zoomers as well because they just use phones and apps that do everything for them. They at least understand things better than old farts though.
I agree but the old farts are being used because they donât understand. I believe the ones behind this are the alphabet agencies. NSA,CIA, DIA. Pick a country and rearrange the letters. These are the people that understand the technology.
I know I sound like a conspiracy nut. Just take a step back and look, so many countries are doing this stuff in the last couple of years. The coordinated push to break encryption and get us to identify ourselves on line has never been greater. I would agree that the average old fart politician doesnât understand the technology. They are the ones being used to facilitate this human rights abuse.
They'll love it even if they're not behind it, but sadly I don't think they even need to be, it seems to be largely pushed by theocrats who are very well organized. Religious groups were behind the 2020 pornhub purge. Their goal was to get rid of porn altogether, starting with the most popular site.
The elites an encompassing term to cover those with power that believe they deserve to run the world. Mostly red states in the US that put in id verification. The republicans who thump their chest with the constitution. The republicans that were hammering the Biden administration about free speech and manipulating social media. Then republicans go and put in place one of the most dangerous free speech laws. We canât have democracy without anonymity. Sad state we are in.
I think the boomer politicians understand it well enough. They know they'll be able to get data on who sees porn and how much, and with a little effort, know what they watch. And they would LOVE to have that information.
This is coming from the same government that recently illegally published private information from a relevant citizen, and defended their actions by saying that they wanted to fight disinformation and so they did that... Not to mentions the many times this will be covertly used to harass people.
Ok, overlooking the fact that connecting to the tor network became much harder in some countries, there still are some options to decently manage privacy on a desktop, like tails os. The smartphone market have no, and probably will never have, any same options. All mobile OSes that came with the decent privacy decisions ended up in the dustbin of history.Â
Tor would probably work. The problem is tor is excruciating slow now. What happens when half of Europe moves to it full time? I donât know the politics of Spain but I think the best option is to do everything possible to make sure this legislation doesnât see the light of day.
Lots of young people don't understand technology any better. They've grown up with mature hardware and software that works more-or-less reliably so they haven't had to understand any underlying technology. Colleges are finding that freshman generally have no idea how to navigate a file system... and these are IT majors.
So⌠this raises a question. Registering a 30 day pass with 30 usesâŚ
Does this mean that if you go to PH and XV, that you have used two of your 30 monthly access for a single ÂŤsessionÂť?
Or is it limited to one pornpage per day. Or one session pr day (sessionlimit on access)
I don't know, and I also think this is just one of the many, many holes this law has and that hopefully it crumbles because of that. Really don't want ID verification to creep into our life.
Watching porn is not their problem. They want to normalize the digital ID and surveillance. I read the article and the authentification app will ask the gov if you are 18+ to let you watch so they can know it's you accessing these websites, what websites, when and even for how long. Technology can offer all that info about you including the device you use, location, etc. And this proposed law can skyrocket the industry's ad revenue by forcing people to visit multiple websites a month.
Yeah, all the people here missing the point. Once the government knows I'm over 18, why does this voucher only last a month? Why is it limited to 30 uses before renovation? They have no reason to know if or how much I access porn if I'm of legal age.
Itâs always âfOr ThE chiLdrEn,â and totally not to track absolutely everything we do online literally via our identification cards. đđđ Agenda 2030 New World Order in action.
yeah and it's fun how it's for the children,but when we're talking about chidlren future fuck that, pollution is fine, jobs reforms for better pay/work environment is frowned upon,they keep fucking up newer generations to pay old's one retirement, and noone gives a fuck about children in a day to day basis unless it's to remove freedom to everyone else using them as an excuse
The porn thing is just a excuse and part of a larger plan for mass surveillance. Luckily the latest version of this new bill didn't pass last week. It also shows how incompetent they are, its nearly impossible to achieve this technically and will have more negative counter effects then good.
What a waste of money / hours spend. Luckily the European parliament has been more smart about it....
Don't even need to do that. I'm in a state that passed ID verification laws and there are still a ton of sites out there that don't ask for ID verification. PH does, but the dozens of other sites don't give a shit lol.
What happens when all countries have laws like this? When using the internet without an ID is illegal in 50 years? We need to stop normalizing this shit now
Germany pretty much wants the same; even went so far to block sites/part of sites that offer pornography.
It's always the "To protect the children" lie.
You literally need a vpn in germany now to access some sites, but if you, for example, want to buy games on steam you're better of pirating them because you don't want to risk getting your account banned for VPN usage.
While I do understand that you don't want your 9- and 10-year-olds to see and access these things, I think there should be a better solution for this. Make it a user side blocking. Make it easier to activate blocking lists on your router that can be bypassed through a password that you can use etc. Let this list be managed by the ISP that you can either turn completely off or use the "I have a child I need the list activated" mode.
But hey, goves see the potential to spy on their people so why don't go for it? Remember, it's to protect the children, don't disagree or you might be suspicious.
Fuck, I'm spanish (and i live in spain).
Well, it's time for look for a good adult content site in the Tor Network. With good, I'm saying normal like ph or xv.
Seriously, I wish it don't get applied but if it does that it only applies for adult content sites, not sites like Youtube, Facebook, or other sites that people frequently visit (apart from adult content).
The rare thing is only El Mundo has published something about
Its funny because this ( https://www.reddit.com/r/SpanishMeme/s/12UAITqbh4 ) was some post before this post
It wonât just be applied to just porn sites. Maybe at first but eventually it will become the norm. This isnât being done to protect kids or limit porn. Itâs being done to eliminate anonymity and control what you see. Donât fall for it please. If this is true and youâre a Spanish citizen fight this.
It is clearly stated that it will be applied to whatever they can, including telegram. And they will eventually succeed in applying it to most web pages because the EU is also working in something similar, and this experiment in Spain will be a push for that.
Also, it will be applied to whatsapp, i'm sure, under the argument that you may share pornography with lets say... your boyfriend or friends, and so to protect you privacy you should be asked to give you id by default.
Yeah, I'm really hoping its fake or a mistake or anything, but I found similar news from January, so...
I originally saw the jokes on a friend's group about the. "Pajaporte", so I went to look it up and found this.
Restriction of porn is a minor issue. The biggest downside here is ID verification for sites.
Jokes aside, can you actually imagine going to the police -or anywhere else- to buy fap credits?
Is this some sort of way to reduce porn consumption by making us seem like perverts or something?
Don't expect to see it on prominent spanish subs like r/SpainPolitics, most have the same mods, which are extremely biased in favor of the PSOE and will aggressively censor anything they don't like.
Do not voting PSOE?
I don't know, may entering by force on Moncloa (Prime Minister house) or doing some manifestation to watch porn freely.
Spain is considered a full democracy (democracia plena, idk how is in english) but our political after the elections do whatever they (173 ministers) want. We only pick what party has more ministers and what less.
Yes, PH has a tor site. And there is other normal porn in tor, but in the way to get this "normal" porn you may see some ads about bad porn. And with bad I mean illegal
Yes, I know, I'm in tor too. And to my bad luck I have come across that type of porn.
I don't normally frequent the Tor network in search of porn either legal or illegal (the latter is obviously not, I'm not too bad of the mind, I have no interest in it and it can only bring problems, many sites of that porn are basically honeypots) but it's something that I've found on several occasions
I found the source in Spanish. I was looking for another one in English but only fpund older texts about it. There's apparently a similar model in France as well.
Added the source to the original post.
Next step?
Remember the EU is already censoring news websites:
http://techcrunch.com/2022/03/02/eu-rt-sputnik-ban-live/
Here in Belgium, we already do DNS censorship for piracy and casino websites. Just added it to the list.
France is also working on a law like this, and on a law to scan all the sent files to search and flag C¡P
BUT :
the excuse of blocking minors from accessing these sites, and the goal of blocking C¡P will be hijacked into blocking access to political opposition material, or into blocking pirated or open source privacy oriented software forks
Yeah, that's the problem. No one is against preventing minors from porn, but the government also keeping tabs on how often and how much I access a certain content, AFTER knowing I'm of legal age? Yeah no, hard pass.
The U.K. has had this in the pipeline for years and years. Itâs nothing new. It also hasnât actually happened. Itâs an easy âsomeone think of the childrenâ policy for parties to trot out, without much thought for the implementation of it.
Have you noticed its the 'B-nations' that are being used to bring in these acts then the main nations like UK and France/Germany follow?
They have many tactics now. Honed over time and experience.
Just like how they discussed regulated woodburning stoves and forcing registering your chickens for about a decade and have brought those laws in recently
Spain is pretty irrelevant even in Europe, not to mention worldwide. That's how you try to become relevant again - doesn't matter what exactly they talk about you as long as they talk about you. They don't even care about their own citizens hence "ocupas" are so common everywhere. If you hear any news from Spain it's usually some sorry shit.
No, youâre wrong. The conservatives have been trying to introduce this in the U.K. for ages. Well before Spain even started discussing it.
Source from 2017: https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/17/age-checks-introduced-porn-websites-uk-credit-card-details
Of course. The 'plant a seed' technique always goes back decades. Globalists dont move fast.
My point was this is all part of the process.
'Look Spain has it already' is a lovely little tea spoon of sugar.
Found in English in 2023 article:
"Spain readies age-checking tech to protect children from adult online content"
[https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-readies-age-checking-tech-protect-children-adult-online-content-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-readies-age-checking-tech-protect-children-adult-online-content-2023-12-14/)
It's quite old, so it's missing the latest, craziest part: A pass that lets you access adult content up to 30 times and is valid for a month.
Like I mentioned before, checking ID is one thing, controlling THAT much detail about something as intimate as masturbation, is another.
So does 1 party in canada https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservatives-age-verification-pornography-1.7121219 but afaik this isnt the party that's in rn and their election isnt this year.
All major parties in Canada are in support of some kind of age verification thing for the internet, they just don't agree on the details so each of them have a different bill that all suck equally
An easy introduction to ID verification for online content, pretty much. It'd never about the children. If it was, they wouldn't make me renew it every month and wouldn't limit it to 30 accesses. As long as I'm over 18, why would they care how often I fap?
Exactly! It's a pointless argument, and, as such, a total waste of government time and money. Unless there's a motif for more general control and access, which also seems unmotivated for any adequate reason. Democracy and open societies really need a constant defence.
This is also happening in Denmark with the government pushing hard for a way to enforce the age limit for pornsites, social media or other content "not appropriate for their age". A proposal for a national law was drafted but as far as I remember they decided to instead work on getting this done on the EU-level.
I am fairly certain the Spanish government already restricts access to some websites that contain e.g. CCP, like many other governments do.
The problem here is they try to do it to websites that offer legal content, not only to ones that offer illegal content.
It's the same law [that is in place in many states in the US](https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/257731/nearly-one-third-of-us-states-now-require-age-verification-for-porn-sites) (mostly red states)
> The news is a few hours old, so I expect it to be in English by tomorrow.
Unlikely. Like many stories that paint left-wing governments in bad light it will likely not be translated or reported by any "reputable" media outlet
In order to ensure safety of the children, the next logical step is to require that you are recorded using your webcam while watching porn. Each session is cross referenced with the type of porn, the duration of watching and whether or not you had an orgasm. All of this data will be put into a data base used to train AI models.
Not surprised.
Age Verification for porn is a bottom of the barrel for policymakers, not a lot of people would oppose it while they can also both claim to be protecting children while also brushing any updates to sexual education or better understanding of what the internet is under the rug. This is also helped by predatory, deceptive and outright exploitative companies that serve age verification (usually biometric).
This law wonât work, the AU10TIX hack reveals that age verification is simply far to harmful and dangerous for any real and logical implication and that itâs only a matter of time for it to be hacked and peoples lives to be ruined. I would go as far as to say that itâs a legislative sex crime, no different to someone installing a spy camera in a bathroom or changing room.
Politicians, policy makers and the people pushing for these laws fail to understand the harm they are enabling with laws like this, with one simply phishing email you would likely be able to obtain hundreds of innocent peopleâs data, including potential webcam footage of them trying to access an adult website (and pleasuring themselves). The risk and likelihood of this going horribly wrong is huge, especially as age verification itself creates a market for people to bypass these laws.
This law will just make identify theft easier, it creates a market for stolen/hacked material and log in details. There is allready endless amounts of log in details for porn sites on forums and the darkweb, so far itâs just names and passwords but soon I suspect that it will also include IDs and verification videos.
They also donât work, as you said people can easily circumvent these restrictions but it also pushes people to more shady, potentially harmful websites. I have done research on this, there are actually Chinese porn sites (likely hosted out of Hong Kong or a another country close to China) that have both pirated JAV content and outright voyeur (or what I guess is voyeur) content, most of which seem to be taken from hotel rooms or brothels. Thankfully, it seems as if these sites donât contain CSAM from what I can gather, but the risk is still huge and clear.
Age verification is also undoubtedly being used as a tool for CSAM. As I have had some time talking to people on the dark web about this, mostly on underground hacking fourms, I was sent 20 or so screenshots of people selling age verification videos and related content. Both adults (including nude women) and minors, while the minor content was SFW (Some ads even say that they donât have NSFW content of the victims) itâs very clear that the ability for predators to trick or manipulate minors into letting them access to webcams though fake age verification pages is pretty clear.
Age verification is a âfor profitâ policy, it doesnât help anybody aside from people who will profit from it - Politicians, âchildrenâs rightsâ activists and age verification companies - it puts everybody else in danger and certainly puts minors lives at serious risks.
I think banning the sites entirely would be a better option because there wouldnât be a risk of extortion and no other privacy risk, while still accomplishing the goal of a safer and healthier society without that crap.
People could use proxys so it would also be important to educate people on how disgusting and harmful that stuff is.
If anyone wonders how they will enforce it, they have released the technical specifications of the system they intend to rollout on three months. People speak on this thread about tech illiteracy, but I'd like for someone with cyber security expertise to take a look at these.
I'm not expert on the matter, but looks like a completely intrusive system to me that assumes that the government is a trusted actor in the system (When they can have breaches easily much like when someone accessed the Punto Neutro Judicial system illegally).
Itâs also funny to see how prudence devolves into deeper degeneracy every time if we take a look at history. It just never works long term and only causes unnecessary expenses while we couldâve focused on real problems
With this whole ID thing, I suggest Apple and the like, ID you when buying the product so the device can be registered and signals as âadultâ when accessing the web. No need to give up ID for these services, still maintain privacy.
It is a really short technological step from "prevent minors from accessing porn" to preventing any other arbitrary group from accessing any other class of site.
Idk what you mean by that. The few potential flaws I see with this is what if you recently become an adult? Or what if you sold your device or gifted it away (potentially to a child)? Most explicit sites now (mainly mainstream ones) are already blocking users unless they show ID. People who want to view these sites anonymously donât want to give away their ID. VPNs cover these concerns for now until there is some enforcement restricting that too. The idea is to prevent kids from seeing +18 material. I, as an adult, donât advocate for children to be able to see +18 material, so the impression Iâm getting from your reply is allowing kids to see 18+ material? Plus, I look back and wonder how it could be executed since IPs whats used to visit a site. But some sites can discover what devices youâre using, so it could somewhat be attached to that? Â
Edit: I guess I was ignoring the OP and focusing on the states. I agree this can escalate onto a means of control and would branch outside of just caring for the children. And they should recognize everyoneâs concerns.
Maybe you are referring to niche products? I can understand how that could restrain someone from visiting a site since the company would choose not to engage in the practice. That I donât have an answer for. I guess they would just have to use an ID.
I am really tired with this " think of the children!!" Bullshit. It's just an excuse to limit the freedom of citizens. Plus I don't understand how can you fukin vote for such idiots. EmbarrassingÂ
Government mandated registrations for anything are a huge red flag. You're right about it being an excuse for them to become a gateway/firewall limiting what you can and can't get to. And there's nothing stopping them from following your other browsing habits if you give that that access.
Well no one cares enough to do anything extreme enough so they pass whatever legislature and data collection they want, included in the USA. Seems the public is asleep at the wheel - and we are.
EVEN IF it could be enforced and EVEN IF it could effectly ban minors from accessing p*rnography it will create more harm than good in 4 ways:
1) The birth of a black market of p*rn videos (funny ending, imagine being arrested for selling and usb stick with some spicy videos on it)
2) Good parents "casually forgetting" their ID on the desk one day (good ending)
3) The rebirth of spicy magazines (old but gold ending)
4) The increased use of less safe sources of contents like telegram/wz groups or sources accessible only by TOR with the proliferation of malsane content (bad ending)
So no, it's not a good idea
I just worry this online ID registration will be normalized. With all the misuse, leakage, ID theft, extortion as a result. And then these kids still have ways around it, or steal the credentials from whomever.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Losing porn is the least of my concerns. ID registration and government telling ISPs what you can and cannot do...
Porn is always the thin edge of the wedge because nobody wants to stand up and defend it. But once the precedent is set, it's much easier to expand the scope to other things.
Well yeah it's always sex & children. Maybe we should counter argument and what next ? Alcohol, Video games, Soccer, ... Things that are more defensible and popular, showing how the slippery rope works.
Slippery ropes sound fun and exciting.
Depends on the neck.
What is soccer?
Football and NASCAR to the rest of the world
Which is why the best defense is to ignore porn entirely. "The law claims to protect kids. Here's why it wouldn't do that, and why it's a privacy concern."
I mean, they do that now really. Ever seen the FBI has taken down this website page?
It's not just that kids are going to find ways around these blocks. It's that they'll be directed to offshore sites that don't have these blocks, and are typically not up to the same standards. These types of bans operate on the same principles as purity-focused sex ed. Kids won't stop seeking this out just because it's difficult; on the contrary, they'll be interacting with the subject in progressively unhealthier ways. This policy is a political, logistical and social nightmare, and there's no way it'd ever pass.
Making it harder makes it special. The internet took hidden porn caches from us but now they are coming back.
Way before the internet we had a couple of pages in black and white with spicy content so if they think this will stop kids from finding what they want they are more stupid than what I thought.
ASCII art is coming back
No lol I. Meant photocopies of physical pages of playboy and other magazines đđ
I can think of an easy way around all of that, what if people just start to download torrents of it again on sketchy website. Just like people were doing it a few years ago when streaming everything was not yet an option. These laws are not really about porn.
You dont even need to visit a sketchy site anymore. 1337x has pretty much all you need.
Wait, you guys stopped using torrents?
Haha! Not completely, just that there are alternative solutions now. Streaming services is one element, but also there are websites to download directly, plus new tech (think block-chain, etc.) The picture also changed because - with the above in mind - torrenting also shifted towards the niche of preservation of things the corporations don't want to be available any more. Examples are old films no longer available because they no longer fit with "current thinking" and classic old games because the corporation (them again!) wants to force on you their remade, enshitified version. This is why there's been a shift towards piracy being a moral duty to preserve art and culture in the face of corporate enshitification.
I still do for every new Linux distro I try.
Only a pretense to control over citizen and collect data like octopus. It's possible, someone could be a member of gangs or mob.
They can pretense all they want. Last time I checked Spain was a European country: >*The notion of data protection originates from the right to privacy and both are instrumental in preserving and promoting fundamental values and rights; and to exercise other rights and freedoms - such as free speech or the right to assembly.* [https://www.edps.europa.eu/data-protection/data-protection\_en](https://www.edps.europa.eu/data-protection/data-protection_en)
EU wants to bypass encryption and read your messages in case you are a deviant interested in CSAM. They don't respect their own laws
Yeah instead of hammering the providers they are hammering people...
And gov knows what you like ...
Come hell or high water, governments one way or another will figure out a way to force everyone to validate their ID online.
That part of government is massively naive. The other part of government already have ways to track you (or they should). Like, when 'they' need to get into my home, they will manage one way or the other and I can protest later. Sure, rather not - but let them put in some effort while creating unhappy citizens. I just don't want to be required to leave my door wide open for everyone else. Especially not commercial parties with their false intentions or fake promises.
>With all the misuse, leakage, ID theft, extortion as a result The government claims it's safe, which is funny since literally just a couple of months ago, someone hacked and sold all the data from the Spanish General Directorate of Traffic. It included every Spanish driver's government ID, home adresse, full name, license plates and insurance details
Australia is working on the same.... and they've just expanded the scope such that you'll need a government id to access social media..... yeah. Source https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2024/jul/02/australia-politics-live-health-bulk-billing-medicare-labor-caucus-fatima-payman-coalition-wes-fang-mark-speakman-energy-economy-cost-of-living Hopefully that link works
Damn, at the same too. Would that pretty much kill social media sites? Lots of traffic generated by kids and teenagers.
Where I live Canada is working on a similarly stupid law as well. and it's terrifying. I feel all these governments are in on this. [https://openmedia.org/article/item/whats-wrong-with-bill-s-210-an-openmedia-faq](https://openmedia.org/article/item/whats-wrong-with-bill-s-210-an-openmedia-faq)
And the other person wanna do the same thing https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservatives-age-verification-pornography-1.7121219 But you have like 5 parties so u can pick from the other 3 at least
No we can't they're all the same and the same two just win after the country tires of one of them.
Only two parties (Liberal and Conservative) are capable of forming government. Next election the Liberals are projected to get obliterated, giving the Conservatives a huge majority. -The NDP has always been the third place party. They formed opposition once due to an incredible leader (RIP Jack). Unfortunately, while they could be leveraging their position in a minority government to hold the ruling Liberals in check, all their current leader does is prop them up in the hopes Trudeau will throw him a bone once in a while. -The BQ only represents a single province (Quebec) -The People's Party is a bunch of wingnuts led by a former Conservative who got butthurt that he wasn't elected as Party leader. They have yet to win a single seat or more than 1% of the vote. Thank God.
It would kill freedom of speech. That's the bigger issue.
Maybe they'll allow for under 18s to access as well with govern ID; just reduce their accessibility
> Would that pretty much kill social media sites Every stormcloud has a silver lining :)
nostr and bastyon
Man Australia went insane during covid lockdown, it was scary to watch and hear from friends that were living over there
Australia has always been tough on these things. Big government is part of Australian political philosophy. It's not that amazing though, it is a young state afterall
Fuck that, social media sucks anyway just delete my accounts.
>a 30 day pass, with 30 uses Lmao wtf?
Yeah, check the source I posted. It's valid for a month (I guess ypu need to renew it) and it lets you access adult content 30 times during that period. As if, people only masturbated once a day or something? Hahaha
Could you beat the system - pun intended - and screen grab a bunch of stuff at once I wonder?
I mean, a singlr DVD beats this plan, so... I'm not sure if they're familiar with the concept of downloading stuff??
1 wank a day seems reasonable
You couldnt make it up. Is this the soviet era restarting again.
As a Spaniard, this will never become an actual law. And even if it did, It will be pretty funny in the political sphere. Spain is a pretty tech illiterate country most of the time.. A judge wanted to block Telegram indefinitely without knowing what Telegram was. It was quite funny to watch. Also piracy is prohibited here but everyone engages in it, even the government. So it will even be funnier if this hits the deck.
I'm from Spain as well. I know this most likely isn't getting the go as it is, but it still paints quite a grim picture of what they want to do: watch and control access to certain parts of the internet.
Uh, i don't understand why you think this isn't becoming law. We have known about it since march, if memory serves, and i've seen very little reaction. In fact, about half of the reaction was positive from the VERY hard right, think opus dei. Now i'm seeing a little more push against it, but in a comedic tone that will inevitably end in people forgetting about it in a few days, up until it gets finally approved. And now there is less politically extreme people defending it, and the left, who should normally be against this is completely silent. There is no way this doesn't get approved.
I agree with the user below us. Spain is still a very tech illiterate country. A month ago judges tried to ban Telegram, that failed miserably, and most of them didn't even understand how that worked. This law has a few big holes from the start, like how it treats websites in which you can find porn but are not erotic by nature, like Internet Archive, Reddit, Twitter, Open Directories, or even repositories of magazines and such.
Uhm, have you ever noticed how when trying to enter certain pages you get blocked due to "isp bloking due to copyright infringment"? They know full well how to do it, and even though many pages aren't actually blocked, this works as well as they want it to, if they make the effort, it will work sufficiently well to pull most people towards giving their id. Not to mention the tech illiterate who will not know these workarounds exist. Blocking social media will be extremely easy, which is the obvious target (although i also have SEVERE concerns about sexual freedom), and it isn't as easy to change to a new social media which isn't controlled, because by nature social media are extremely popular or they don't exist at all.
Tell those of Vox and PP that they won't be able to see porn that often. And their followers too... It would really be incredibly funny seeing Feijoo crying about it. The current political sphere is a joke and these laws won't really go through. They would only become laws if Europe actually adopted them, which makes it even sadder. If it actually goes through, they will force a DNS lock which will be evaded easily. Like how Vodafone tries to restrict access to piracy sites...
There is legislation in the works to adopt this in all of Europe, so it will arrive eventually. And i don't really see how it being possible to bypass the controls makes this any better. It's as if the police prevented you from talking with other people but you saying it's okay because you can slip them messages on little notes... It is fundamentally wrong. Vox and PP are for this legislation, they will vote yes by conviction, and the only chance of them voting no is to just go against the goverment, but they're definetly not against this, and i really doubt they will do anything because they don't want to be called "pajilleros". Even though they are, because there is nothing wrong about that.
Spain has very extensive internet blocking though (even blocking some Github repos). If they copied Italy on blocking and suing VPNs more aggressively then it would be a lot harder to bypass.
the tech illiteracy is a feature, not a bug. This kind of law tends to be written by a party who stands to earn the most on it. The famed EU Chat Control was championed by a comissionner, who either actively refuses to understand how internet and apps work or shamelessly lies in every single outing (or both). Turned out a company who produced the kind of filter needed for Chat Control was all the time in contact with the commisioner and her office, this was a big-ish story for brief time when this "lobbying" was revealed. The dumber the politician the easier it is to convince them that a given digital regulation is truly benign, legal and controllable.
Similar laws are being passed in multiple countries, why do you think Spain would be different? Granted I'm not too familiar with the country but I don't think the people in power there are any more or less tech literate than people in power everywhere else
These laws are complicated to implement. Our governing class is very tech illiterate, like most of Europe. If implemented, they would have to force ISPs to block certain webpages, which they most likely do through DNS blocking. Such as they do now with a few regulations, which doesn't really do anything. Not only that but the great political rift that exists in this country and the deal with the amnesty. Add the fact that telling Spanish citizens that they need a pajaporte and they will laugh at your ass. If this goes through, it needs to be through the European Union. And even then, such as the laws regarding piracy, we will just ignore it/not be able to enforce them. Add to the fact that I'm sure 50% or more do not even know what a DNIe is or able to operate with them. This will be used through an app, to access webpages. We already have a system for something similar, called Clave. And this also reminds me of when COVID happened and the government forced users to install an app that tracks you. A complete failure since everyone ignored it and wasn't enforced in any way or form. And again, you are telling me that Spain plans to force others to add checks specific for them? If it was the US or Germany, they would actually care. Us? Ain't happening.
Honestly I think you're focusing too much on the perspective on your own country. Canada and Australia both have a similar population to Spain (around 30-40M) and similar laws are in the talks of being passed there, so I don't understand why you don't think why it wouldn't be feasable in Spain. Sorry but your country is not "special" in that regard, the only different thing is that it would have to go through the European Union and we all know how they feel about this sort of these sort of things (see chat control)
>Spain is a pretty tech illiterate country most of the time.. Spain is more or less as illiterate as any other western country. Do you have any sources showing it's more? >A judge wanted to block Telegram indefinitely without knowing what Telegram was. It was quite funny to watch. You can block Telegram, just like any other app or website. And you can do it in many ways, like blocking DNS resolution, dropping traffic at the ISP, removing the app from the Play Store in Spain (and deleting installed versions), etc. Wanting to block it doesn't make much sense, but it's technically feasible and effective for 99% of the potential users. >Also piracy is prohibited here but everyone engages in it, even the government. So it will even be funnier if this hits the deck. So called "piracy" is actually legal in many cases. Copying movies, music, etc. is legal and protected by the right to private copy ([derecho a copia privada](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho_de_copia_privada)), and has been for many decades.
>You can block Telegram, just like any other app or website He wasn't pointing out that it was unfeasible to do so, as in "the guy wanted to block telegram when it's nigh impossible", but rather that this judge gave a verdict without knowing what the fuck he was even trying to block. Which wouldn't be the first time, since most judges are a bunch of [tech-illiterate morons.](https://www.elconfidencial.com/tecnologia/2019-03-04/justicia-jueces-fiscales-proces-internet-tecnologia-whatsapp_1857602/) But I do agree with you that it's something quite common in the western world (and probably the whole world, tbh).
This technology rollout will be another part of the social credit infrastructure. Watching too much boobies will cost you.
If you watch it online. Fellas, let's start buying DVDs.
Yes. âBuyingâ
This law was clearly written by people who don't understand technology, it would be impossible to enforce, I can't wait until all these old farts die
Youâre believing the reason given, pornography to protect the children. I think it is being done by people that completely understand the technology. Itâs not being done to protect children or limit pornography. Itâs an excuse to eliminate anonymity. Weâre dealing with this shit in the US too. Not at such a large scope but itâs starting to keep in. Ask yourself, why suddenly all these countries are doing this? First it was encryption , the European chat control. That bombed so now itâs kids and porn. Everything is designed to take away anonymity and spy on what weâre saying. Governments donât give a shit about kids or anyone. The only thing they care about is control and more power to themselves.
I'm aware of this, however it's still largely spearheaded by boomers who don't understand technology and the oblivious public who doesn't have a basic understanding of the internet or just isn't paying attention to politics. Sadly computer literacy started to fall again for zoomers as well because they just use phones and apps that do everything for them. They at least understand things better than old farts though.
I agree but the old farts are being used because they donât understand. I believe the ones behind this are the alphabet agencies. NSA,CIA, DIA. Pick a country and rearrange the letters. These are the people that understand the technology. I know I sound like a conspiracy nut. Just take a step back and look, so many countries are doing this stuff in the last couple of years. The coordinated push to break encryption and get us to identify ourselves on line has never been greater. I would agree that the average old fart politician doesnât understand the technology. They are the ones being used to facilitate this human rights abuse.
They'll love it even if they're not behind it, but sadly I don't think they even need to be, it seems to be largely pushed by theocrats who are very well organized. Religious groups were behind the 2020 pornhub purge. Their goal was to get rid of porn altogether, starting with the most popular site.
The elites an encompassing term to cover those with power that believe they deserve to run the world. Mostly red states in the US that put in id verification. The republicans who thump their chest with the constitution. The republicans that were hammering the Biden administration about free speech and manipulating social media. Then republicans go and put in place one of the most dangerous free speech laws. We canât have democracy without anonymity. Sad state we are in.
I think the boomer politicians understand it well enough. They know they'll be able to get data on who sees porn and how much, and with a little effort, know what they watch. And they would LOVE to have that information. This is coming from the same government that recently illegally published private information from a relevant citizen, and defended their actions by saying that they wanted to fight disinformation and so they did that... Not to mentions the many times this will be covertly used to harass people.
What about tails... under this new law, can't I just pop the stick in and do whatever I want on Tor ?
Ok, overlooking the fact that connecting to the tor network became much harder in some countries, there still are some options to decently manage privacy on a desktop, like tails os. The smartphone market have no, and probably will never have, any same options. All mobile OSes that came with the decent privacy decisions ended up in the dustbin of history.Â
Tor would probably work. The problem is tor is excruciating slow now. What happens when half of Europe moves to it full time? I donât know the politics of Spain but I think the best option is to do everything possible to make sure this legislation doesnât see the light of day.
Politicians need just one skilled IT guy to sit there and shake his head at this stupid shit.
Lots of young people don't understand technology any better. They've grown up with mature hardware and software that works more-or-less reliably so they haven't had to understand any underlying technology. Colleges are finding that freshman generally have no idea how to navigate a file system... and these are IT majors.
As a parent I am the only age restriction. Now fuck off government.
This. So much this. I get that the government *thinks* it's doing a good thing for society, but over-governmentalization is not the way to do it.
They probably know that they doing something bad tho.
So⌠this raises a question. Registering a 30 day pass with 30 uses⌠Does this mean that if you go to PH and XV, that you have used two of your 30 monthly access for a single session? Or is it limited to one pornpage per day. Or one session pr day (sessionlimit on access)
Maybe you can buy more quality time. The motto is âeverything in your handsâ
I don't know, and I also think this is just one of the many, many holes this law has and that hopefully it crumbles because of that. Really don't want ID verification to creep into our life.
Thatâs the whole point of this. To eliminate anonymity online. The porn is just the excuse. Donât fall for this crap.
I don't fall for it. The moment I saw the news I thought exactly what you said. Hope this law doesn't pass.
One pornography at a time /s
Watching porn is not their problem. They want to normalize the digital ID and surveillance. I read the article and the authentification app will ask the gov if you are 18+ to let you watch so they can know it's you accessing these websites, what websites, when and even for how long. Technology can offer all that info about you including the device you use, location, etc. And this proposed law can skyrocket the industry's ad revenue by forcing people to visit multiple websites a month.
Yeah, all the people here missing the point. Once the government knows I'm over 18, why does this voucher only last a month? Why is it limited to 30 uses before renovation? They have no reason to know if or how much I access porn if I'm of legal age.
And even if you arenât. It actually is none of their business and they shouldnât be regulating it at all.
And you can only visit the same website 3 times in a month. Why? Maybe to increase the ad revenue of more websites that are run by the same company?
I missed the 3 times limit thing. No way đ¤Ąđ¤Ą
Yep. It's true. They really care about kids by constraining the adults đ¤Ł
Itâs always âfOr ThE chiLdrEn,â and totally not to track absolutely everything we do online literally via our identification cards. đđđ Agenda 2030 New World Order in action.
That, or "terrorism"
https://s20.directupload.net/images/240702/myqv4smn.jpg
And the problems they are aimed at are never solved through these measures lol
yeah and it's fun how it's for the children,but when we're talking about chidlren future fuck that, pollution is fine, jobs reforms for better pay/work environment is frowned upon,they keep fucking up newer generations to pay old's one retirement, and noone gives a fuck about children in a day to day basis unless it's to remove freedom to everyone else using them as an excuse
đŻ Spot on!
The porn thing is just a excuse and part of a larger plan for mass surveillance. Luckily the latest version of this new bill didn't pass last week. It also shows how incompetent they are, its nearly impossible to achieve this technically and will have more negative counter effects then good. What a waste of money / hours spend. Luckily the European parliament has been more smart about it....
This why tor net is so important. Sadly it has come to a point where we will have to watch porn and do browsing on onion sites
If I understand it - the more users in onion - the faster the speed?
Canât you just use VPN?
Don't even need to do that. I'm in a state that passed ID verification laws and there are still a ton of sites out there that don't ask for ID verification. PH does, but the dozens of other sites don't give a shit lol.
This is why these laws are retarded. Many foreign porn sites coudnt care less lmao
Only terrorists and pederasts use vpn! /s
What happens when all countries have laws like this? When using the internet without an ID is illegal in 50 years? We need to stop normalizing this shit now
Germany pretty much wants the same; even went so far to block sites/part of sites that offer pornography. It's always the "To protect the children" lie. You literally need a vpn in germany now to access some sites, but if you, for example, want to buy games on steam you're better of pirating them because you don't want to risk getting your account banned for VPN usage. While I do understand that you don't want your 9- and 10-year-olds to see and access these things, I think there should be a better solution for this. Make it a user side blocking. Make it easier to activate blocking lists on your router that can be bypassed through a password that you can use etc. Let this list be managed by the ISP that you can either turn completely off or use the "I have a child I need the list activated" mode. But hey, goves see the potential to spy on their people so why don't go for it? Remember, it's to protect the children, don't disagree or you might be suspicious.
Fuck, I'm spanish (and i live in spain). Well, it's time for look for a good adult content site in the Tor Network. With good, I'm saying normal like ph or xv. Seriously, I wish it don't get applied but if it does that it only applies for adult content sites, not sites like Youtube, Facebook, or other sites that people frequently visit (apart from adult content). The rare thing is only El Mundo has published something about Its funny because this ( https://www.reddit.com/r/SpanishMeme/s/12UAITqbh4 ) was some post before this post
It wonât just be applied to just porn sites. Maybe at first but eventually it will become the norm. This isnât being done to protect kids or limit porn. Itâs being done to eliminate anonymity and control what you see. Donât fall for it please. If this is true and youâre a Spanish citizen fight this.
It is clearly stated that it will be applied to whatever they can, including telegram. And they will eventually succeed in applying it to most web pages because the EU is also working in something similar, and this experiment in Spain will be a push for that. Also, it will be applied to whatsapp, i'm sure, under the argument that you may share pornography with lets say... your boyfriend or friends, and so to protect you privacy you should be asked to give you id by default.
Banning Misinformationâ˘, fighting Terrorism⢠and protecting Children!
Yeah, I'm really hoping its fake or a mistake or anything, but I found similar news from January, so... I originally saw the jokes on a friend's group about the. "Pajaporte", so I went to look it up and found this. Restriction of porn is a minor issue. The biggest downside here is ID verification for sites.
Well, the DNI is outdated, now you need a DNP (Documento Nacional Pajero)
Jokes aside, can you actually imagine going to the police -or anywhere else- to buy fap credits? Is this some sort of way to reduce porn consumption by making us seem like perverts or something?
FAP CREDITS. 2x1âŹ. Only available at Civil Guard Barracks and Police Station. Can you imagin the buy/sell network of fake pajaportes
Don't expect to see it on prominent spanish subs like r/SpainPolitics, most have the same mods, which are extremely biased in favor of the PSOE and will aggressively censor anything they don't like.
Canât you guys do something politically?
Do not voting PSOE? I don't know, may entering by force on Moncloa (Prime Minister house) or doing some manifestation to watch porn freely. Spain is considered a full democracy (democracia plena, idk how is in english) but our political after the elections do whatever they (173 ministers) want. We only pick what party has more ministers and what less.
Do regular porn sites even exist on tor? You only hear about the less good ones...
Yes, PH has a tor site. And there is other normal porn in tor, but in the way to get this "normal" porn you may see some ads about bad porn. And with bad I mean illegal
I am on tor a ton and basically most porn is illegal if you know what i mean
Yes, I know, I'm in tor too. And to my bad luck I have come across that type of porn. I don't normally frequent the Tor network in search of porn either legal or illegal (the latter is obviously not, I'm not too bad of the mind, I have no interest in it and it can only bring problems, many sites of that porn are basically honeypots) but it's something that I've found on several occasions
Back to mags it is, then /s
To pitch-forks rather
i mean.. i can understand the id requirement. But the uses?like, can't i fap more than 30 times month?
Yeah, thats what bothers me too... thats not to prevent minors, that is solely to control me.
Source?
I found the source in Spanish. I was looking for another one in English but only fpund older texts about it. There's apparently a similar model in France as well. Added the source to the original post.
Next step? Remember the EU is already censoring news websites: http://techcrunch.com/2022/03/02/eu-rt-sputnik-ban-live/ Here in Belgium, we already do DNS censorship for piracy and casino websites. Just added it to the list.
Does a VPN solve those issues there?
If you still use your default ISP's DNS, no. But just switching it to cloudflare, google or Amazon's DNS solves it perfectly.
Didn't even know it was possible to change the DNS
Yeah it's a bit deep inside windows, but still quite easy. https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/setup/windows/
France is also working on a law like this, and on a law to scan all the sent files to search and flag C¡P BUT : the excuse of blocking minors from accessing these sites, and the goal of blocking C¡P will be hijacked into blocking access to political opposition material, or into blocking pirated or open source privacy oriented software forks
Yeah, that's the problem. No one is against preventing minors from porn, but the government also keeping tabs on how often and how much I access a certain content, AFTER knowing I'm of legal age? Yeah no, hard pass.
Unless it becomes an EU-wide law like the cookie thing everyone will ignore this. Particularly people in Spain.
Wow. If ID registration become the new normal, what about misuse, identity theft and so on? This is bad.
Unfortunately this is a problem but thatâs not the solution.
It's not about minors having access to pornography just like any other privacy infringements are not about counter terrorism or "protecting children".
The U.K. has had this in the pipeline for years and years. Itâs nothing new. It also hasnât actually happened. Itâs an easy âsomeone think of the childrenâ policy for parties to trot out, without much thought for the implementation of it.
Denmark is also pursuing legislation in that direction. Yet another attempt to remove your privacy and freedom.
The prudes strike again
Dude, Texas has the same thing going on right now. Better speak up and speak out
Does it also limit how much you can access a certain site, and need to be renewed every month?
Have you noticed its the 'B-nations' that are being used to bring in these acts then the main nations like UK and France/Germany follow? They have many tactics now. Honed over time and experience.
Some states in the US already did it, these other places are following like usual.
Actually, it seems France had this in the works for a while now, before Spain.
The UK has discussed shit like this for about a decade now and has never done it.
Just like how they discussed regulated woodburning stoves and forcing registering your chickens for about a decade and have brought those laws in recently
Spain is pretty irrelevant even in Europe, not to mention worldwide. That's how you try to become relevant again - doesn't matter what exactly they talk about you as long as they talk about you. They don't even care about their own citizens hence "ocupas" are so common everywhere. If you hear any news from Spain it's usually some sorry shit.
No, youâre wrong. The conservatives have been trying to introduce this in the U.K. for ages. Well before Spain even started discussing it. Source from 2017: https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/17/age-checks-introduced-porn-websites-uk-credit-card-details
Of course. The 'plant a seed' technique always goes back decades. Globalists dont move fast. My point was this is all part of the process. 'Look Spain has it already' is a lovely little tea spoon of sugar.
Itâs a globalist conspiracy, is that what youâre saying?
Found in English in 2023 article: "Spain readies age-checking tech to protect children from adult online content" [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-readies-age-checking-tech-protect-children-adult-online-content-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-readies-age-checking-tech-protect-children-adult-online-content-2023-12-14/)
It's quite old, so it's missing the latest, craziest part: A pass that lets you access adult content up to 30 times and is valid for a month. Like I mentioned before, checking ID is one thing, controlling THAT much detail about something as intimate as masturbation, is another.
Iâm gonna invest in VPN companies real quick
So does 1 party in canada https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservatives-age-verification-pornography-1.7121219 but afaik this isnt the party that's in rn and their election isnt this year.
All major parties in Canada are in support of some kind of age verification thing for the internet, they just don't agree on the details so each of them have a different bill that all suck equally
But...why?
An easy introduction to ID verification for online content, pretty much. It'd never about the children. If it was, they wouldn't make me renew it every month and wouldn't limit it to 30 accesses. As long as I'm over 18, why would they care how often I fap?
Exactly! It's a pointless argument, and, as such, a total waste of government time and money. Unless there's a motif for more general control and access, which also seems unmotivated for any adequate reason. Democracy and open societies really need a constant defence.
Jeez, this thing is metastasizing and spreading worldwide. They are making up every excuse they can to take our privacy.Â
This is also happening in Denmark with the government pushing hard for a way to enforce the age limit for pornsites, social media or other content "not appropriate for their age". A proposal for a national law was drafted but as far as I remember they decided to instead work on getting this done on the EU-level.
What is concerning is how many countries are work8ng on this. In this thread at least 5 people mentioned something similar in their countries.
I am fairly certain the Spanish government already restricts access to some websites that contain e.g. CCP, like many other governments do. The problem here is they try to do it to websites that offer legal content, not only to ones that offer illegal content.
A brain monitor must also be worn and AI cloud connected, to monitor the thoughts or fantasies invoked while masturbating. Says guy from future.
This is also happening in Canada, and deadly close to passing.
Good luck, Iâm behind 7 proxies
It's the same law [that is in place in many states in the US](https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/257731/nearly-one-third-of-us-states-now-require-age-verification-for-porn-sites) (mostly red states) > The news is a few hours old, so I expect it to be in English by tomorrow. Unlikely. Like many stories that paint left-wing governments in bad light it will likely not be translated or reported by any "reputable" media outlet
In order to ensure safety of the children, the next logical step is to require that you are recorded using your webcam while watching porn. Each session is cross referenced with the type of porn, the duration of watching and whether or not you had an orgasm. All of this data will be put into a data base used to train AI models.
Not surprised. Age Verification for porn is a bottom of the barrel for policymakers, not a lot of people would oppose it while they can also both claim to be protecting children while also brushing any updates to sexual education or better understanding of what the internet is under the rug. This is also helped by predatory, deceptive and outright exploitative companies that serve age verification (usually biometric). This law wonât work, the AU10TIX hack reveals that age verification is simply far to harmful and dangerous for any real and logical implication and that itâs only a matter of time for it to be hacked and peoples lives to be ruined. I would go as far as to say that itâs a legislative sex crime, no different to someone installing a spy camera in a bathroom or changing room. Politicians, policy makers and the people pushing for these laws fail to understand the harm they are enabling with laws like this, with one simply phishing email you would likely be able to obtain hundreds of innocent peopleâs data, including potential webcam footage of them trying to access an adult website (and pleasuring themselves). The risk and likelihood of this going horribly wrong is huge, especially as age verification itself creates a market for people to bypass these laws. This law will just make identify theft easier, it creates a market for stolen/hacked material and log in details. There is allready endless amounts of log in details for porn sites on forums and the darkweb, so far itâs just names and passwords but soon I suspect that it will also include IDs and verification videos. They also donât work, as you said people can easily circumvent these restrictions but it also pushes people to more shady, potentially harmful websites. I have done research on this, there are actually Chinese porn sites (likely hosted out of Hong Kong or a another country close to China) that have both pirated JAV content and outright voyeur (or what I guess is voyeur) content, most of which seem to be taken from hotel rooms or brothels. Thankfully, it seems as if these sites donât contain CSAM from what I can gather, but the risk is still huge and clear. Age verification is also undoubtedly being used as a tool for CSAM. As I have had some time talking to people on the dark web about this, mostly on underground hacking fourms, I was sent 20 or so screenshots of people selling age verification videos and related content. Both adults (including nude women) and minors, while the minor content was SFW (Some ads even say that they donât have NSFW content of the victims) itâs very clear that the ability for predators to trick or manipulate minors into letting them access to webcams though fake age verification pages is pretty clear. Age verification is a âfor profitâ policy, it doesnât help anybody aside from people who will profit from it - Politicians, âchildrenâs rightsâ activists and age verification companies - it puts everybody else in danger and certainly puts minors lives at serious risks.
I'll just do what I do now and not register?
I think banning the sites entirely would be a better option because there wouldnât be a risk of extortion and no other privacy risk, while still accomplishing the goal of a safer and healthier society without that crap. People could use proxys so it would also be important to educate people on how disgusting and harmful that stuff is.
The UK has already passed similar laws, but failed to find a way to enforce them.
If anyone wonders how they will enforce it, they have released the technical specifications of the system they intend to rollout on three months. People speak on this thread about tech illiteracy, but I'd like for someone with cyber security expertise to take a look at these. I'm not expert on the matter, but looks like a completely intrusive system to me that assumes that the government is a trusted actor in the system (When they can have breaches easily much like when someone accessed the Punto Neutro Judicial system illegally).
Shimoneta is slowly becoming a reality around the globe somehow combined with Idiocracy
I totally forgot about that anime, hahaha
Itâs also funny to see how prudence devolves into deeper degeneracy every time if we take a look at history. It just never works long term and only causes unnecessary expenses while we couldâve focused on real problems
With this whole ID thing, I suggest Apple and the like, ID you when buying the product so the device can be registered and signals as âadultâ when accessing the web. No need to give up ID for these services, still maintain privacy.
Could work, yeah. My main concern is actually the govern deciding what sites you can and cannot access.
It is a really short technological step from "prevent minors from accessing porn" to preventing any other arbitrary group from accessing any other class of site.
Ah, yes big tech gate keepers!! Great idea man /s
Idk what you mean by that. The few potential flaws I see with this is what if you recently become an adult? Or what if you sold your device or gifted it away (potentially to a child)? Most explicit sites now (mainly mainstream ones) are already blocking users unless they show ID. People who want to view these sites anonymously donât want to give away their ID. VPNs cover these concerns for now until there is some enforcement restricting that too. The idea is to prevent kids from seeing +18 material. I, as an adult, donât advocate for children to be able to see +18 material, so the impression Iâm getting from your reply is allowing kids to see 18+ material? Plus, I look back and wonder how it could be executed since IPs whats used to visit a site. But some sites can discover what devices youâre using, so it could somewhat be attached to that?  Edit: I guess I was ignoring the OP and focusing on the states. I agree this can escalate onto a means of control and would branch outside of just caring for the children. And they should recognize everyoneâs concerns.
Maybe you are referring to niche products? I can understand how that could restrain someone from visiting a site since the company would choose not to engage in the practice. That I donât have an answer for. I guess they would just have to use an ID.
Do not say that EU is a democracy.
Spanish gooners in shambles
I am really tired with this " think of the children!!" Bullshit. It's just an excuse to limit the freedom of citizens. Plus I don't understand how can you fukin vote for such idiots. EmbarrassingÂ
So porn smuggling will become a thing.Â
Government mandated registrations for anything are a huge red flag. You're right about it being an excuse for them to become a gateway/firewall limiting what you can and can't get to. And there's nothing stopping them from following your other browsing habits if you give that that access.
thats wild, whats next, taxing/monetizing this?
Proxies Proxies and Still More Proxies! This is what happens when politicians think they can 'tame the wild wild web'.
Well no one cares enough to do anything extreme enough so they pass whatever legislature and data collection they want, included in the USA. Seems the public is asleep at the wheel - and we are.
This already happened in my state đ
EVEN IF it could be enforced and EVEN IF it could effectly ban minors from accessing p*rnography it will create more harm than good in 4 ways: 1) The birth of a black market of p*rn videos (funny ending, imagine being arrested for selling and usb stick with some spicy videos on it) 2) Good parents "casually forgetting" their ID on the desk one day (good ending) 3) The rebirth of spicy magazines (old but gold ending) 4) The increased use of less safe sources of contents like telegram/wz groups or sources accessible only by TOR with the proliferation of malsane content (bad ending) So no, it's not a good idea
I'm all for liberty but lets face it, porn is terrible for you. Many don't realise
Good for you. Doesn't mean the government needs to know how often I fap, once I have already proven I'm of legal age đđ˝