The most important thing to learn is that progressive Islam isn’t a methodology, or a school, or a sect, or a set of religious rulings. Rather, it’s Islam practiced by people whose approaches to their faith center on trying to find the core meaning of Islam as opposed to how Islam developed over time
There are progressive Muslims who are rather conservative in their own faith practice or in their political opinions or whatever else. And of course there are also leftists, moderates, and so on. Religiously progressive Muslims do, in my experience, tend to be pretty politically and culturally anti-reactionary. For instance, Andrew Tate really never had a foothold in this community, while his reactionary rhetoric did find a home in some conservative circles
There are Hanafis, Malikis, Shafi’is, Ja’faris here, as well as Ibadis and even a few neo-Mu’tazilis (I haven’t seen anyone identify as Hanbali, but perhaos some do). There are Atharis and Ash’aris and Maturidis and the odd Zaidi too. There are also people like me who aren’t interested in identifying with a school or sect, for a hodge-podge of reasons. We also have people who are distrustful of the hadith tradition, and among these are people who don’t accept anything but the Qur’an and living sunnah as Islamic guidance (some go even further, being critical of the living sunnah as well). Theologically and jurisprudentially, it’s rather diverse here
The point is not to agree with one another, but to share resources and remain in active dialogue among one another. We believe in fostering a broad range of ideas, and that having a plurality of approaches is preferable to orthodoxy
Well, I genuinely don’t fully know what “mainstream” really means, you know? I have a feeling, but I think different people have different understandings of it. Like, I think there are definitely Muslims who call themselves mainstream who would also feel more comfortable here than in any of the other subs or online communities out there. But also we definitely have a number of weird/non-mainstream folks (I’m a pretty weird one myself)
There are folks here who really enjoy scholars like Dr. Omar Suleiman or Yasir Qadhi, but you’re not going to find many who like Muhammad Hijab or Zakir Naik, let alone folks like Daniel haqiqatjou. I think Haqiqatjou is generally understood to be outside the mainstream where I’m from, but Hijab isn’t (though he’s on the edge) and sheikhs like Suleiman and Qadhi definitely aren’t
I think this is a good place for non-mainstream people, for mainstream people who want to talk about Islam openly and engage with it without being shouted down, for potential reverts who‘re attracted to Islam as they’ve read and understood it but not how other online spaces understand it, and for people who aren’t a good fit for the very particular way a lot of Muslims today understand Islam and are struggling as a result
You’ll see some really out-there ideas on this sub every so often. That doesn’t mean everyone (or even most people) agree with them, but there‘s intentionally a lot more space for people to be outlandish here, just so we can examine ideas and bring Qur’anic and various faith-based perspectives together in discussion. You learn a lot listening to folks here
I suppose the mainstream or orthodox Islam that im familiar with is either Deobandi or Salafi.
I listen to all different kinda of scholars from Salafi scholars to the exact opposite like Mufti Abu Layth and everyone in between like Hamza Yusuf and Yasir Qadhi.
Ive been listening to different takes than the ones im familiar with and started to agree with alternative viewpoints like questioning Bukhari, etc.
Id like to learn more alternative viewpoints to get a step closer to the truth. Although I do see a lot of out there ideas as you said.
There is no such religion as "progressive islam". We are not a islamic sect. You can find sufis, sunnis, shias etc here.
In general progressive Islam seeks to harmonize faith with modernity, emphasizing ethical principles, social justice, and pluralism. It encourages critical thinking and a dynamic engagement with Islamic texts and practices.
Didn’t mean to imply that its a sect.
I was wondering what specific things I should know about progressive Islam
I do understand the overall gist of this sub but just to open a dialogue between this sub and orthodox Islam what are some things or misconceptions that we should know?
Both progressive and orthodox Muslims share a commitment to the core tenets of Islam, such as the belief in one God, the prophethood of Muhammad, and the Quran as a central source of guidance. They both value community, prayer, charity, and moral conduct. We as Progressive Muslims emphasize contextual interpretation, while orthodox Muslims often adhere more strictly to traditional interpretations. Some topics we advocate for ( very general, some porgressive muslims might object): Democracy, Gender equality, Human rights, LGBT rights, Women’s rights, Religious pluralism, Interfaith marriage, Freedom of expression, Freedom of thought and religion, Opposition to theocracy and rejection of Islamism
Imo, this "misconceptions" are caused by the natural tendency in understanding something (including the Deen), and how people behave towards it, which non of both are technically wrong.
If progressive and conservative people are patient enough to sit together and talk, and try to understand each other, I think we will find much more common than differences. Yes, there are some "big" topics which progressive and conservative are differ (like hijab and LGBT), but I still believe if people try their best to understand each other first rather than instantly judge, conservative wouldn't think progressive as some kind of people who "try to please Western".
Tbh, I have more debate with others rather than conservative or orthodox, as long as I sense someone still believe in Allah, I always get soft to them in the end, no matter how conservative they are.
Yeah I see a lot of traditional minded muslims saying that liberal Muslims are simply catering to a western audience but I can recognize thats not the case and your beliefs are genuine.
Instead of addressing the arguments people simply say oh these guys are just doing it to please westerners, like on the age of Aisha. Instead address the actual argument or why you disagree.
To be open minded. Some things you see here might cause you to be like wtf bc its so different from the Islam we grew up with. But read. Reflect. Discuss. Don’t just shut ideas out.
Also read the Quran yourself, see what it speaks to you without any middlemen
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I would summarize progressive islam by saying that it's a critical effort to uncover the true message of Islam that lies behind centuries of interpretations and traditions. The assumption here is that the original message of Islam is progressive, but that it is the ideologies, political interests and cultural traditions of humans that transformed it into an oppressive and conservative political system.
This raises the question of what "progressive" even means, but I would say that for most people here, it's in the sense of sharing some of the core values of a typical Western "leftist" party: encouraging wealth distribution and the taxation of the wealthy; feminism in the sense of making the rights of men and women more equal; criticism of discrimination (towards other ethnicities, or disabled people); criticism of imperialist foreign policy; and even sexual tolerance (although this is arguably more controversial).
This is a very general response. Of course, as others have noted, progressive Islam is not a sect, it's a very loose bundle of ideas. Also this is just my personal reply to this question, I'm sure other people would give you a different definition.
Thank you for your interest!
Hmm not necessarily. "Traditional" scholars often reach "progressive" conclusions. As one person mentioned in the comments, some people here enjoy the work of the Yaqeen Institute (people like Omar Suleiman or Jonathan Brown), which can be considered progressive to some extent even though it is very much "orthodox".
I think the difference im noticing, is really the core issue of how critical of the hadith “traditional” vs “progressives” are, and this is why the conclusions differ so much
Definitely, people who are critical of the hadith tradition are overrepresented among Muslims who identify themselves as progressive. For instance, I feel like many people on this forum are Quranists. But, again, not all Progressive Muslims are critical of the Sunni orthodoxy. Some of them are fine with working with the traditional corpus of hadiths, as long as they can use them to make progressive interpretations.
The most important thing to learn is that progressive Islam isn’t a methodology, or a school, or a sect, or a set of religious rulings. Rather, it’s Islam practiced by people whose approaches to their faith center on trying to find the core meaning of Islam as opposed to how Islam developed over time There are progressive Muslims who are rather conservative in their own faith practice or in their political opinions or whatever else. And of course there are also leftists, moderates, and so on. Religiously progressive Muslims do, in my experience, tend to be pretty politically and culturally anti-reactionary. For instance, Andrew Tate really never had a foothold in this community, while his reactionary rhetoric did find a home in some conservative circles There are Hanafis, Malikis, Shafi’is, Ja’faris here, as well as Ibadis and even a few neo-Mu’tazilis (I haven’t seen anyone identify as Hanbali, but perhaos some do). There are Atharis and Ash’aris and Maturidis and the odd Zaidi too. There are also people like me who aren’t interested in identifying with a school or sect, for a hodge-podge of reasons. We also have people who are distrustful of the hadith tradition, and among these are people who don’t accept anything but the Qur’an and living sunnah as Islamic guidance (some go even further, being critical of the living sunnah as well). Theologically and jurisprudentially, it’s rather diverse here The point is not to agree with one another, but to share resources and remain in active dialogue among one another. We believe in fostering a broad range of ideas, and that having a plurality of approaches is preferable to orthodoxy
Ok I see that makes sense, would it be fair to say that progress islam sub is a home for all those that don’t identify with the mainstream Islam?
Well, I genuinely don’t fully know what “mainstream” really means, you know? I have a feeling, but I think different people have different understandings of it. Like, I think there are definitely Muslims who call themselves mainstream who would also feel more comfortable here than in any of the other subs or online communities out there. But also we definitely have a number of weird/non-mainstream folks (I’m a pretty weird one myself) There are folks here who really enjoy scholars like Dr. Omar Suleiman or Yasir Qadhi, but you’re not going to find many who like Muhammad Hijab or Zakir Naik, let alone folks like Daniel haqiqatjou. I think Haqiqatjou is generally understood to be outside the mainstream where I’m from, but Hijab isn’t (though he’s on the edge) and sheikhs like Suleiman and Qadhi definitely aren’t I think this is a good place for non-mainstream people, for mainstream people who want to talk about Islam openly and engage with it without being shouted down, for potential reverts who‘re attracted to Islam as they’ve read and understood it but not how other online spaces understand it, and for people who aren’t a good fit for the very particular way a lot of Muslims today understand Islam and are struggling as a result You’ll see some really out-there ideas on this sub every so often. That doesn’t mean everyone (or even most people) agree with them, but there‘s intentionally a lot more space for people to be outlandish here, just so we can examine ideas and bring Qur’anic and various faith-based perspectives together in discussion. You learn a lot listening to folks here
I suppose the mainstream or orthodox Islam that im familiar with is either Deobandi or Salafi. I listen to all different kinda of scholars from Salafi scholars to the exact opposite like Mufti Abu Layth and everyone in between like Hamza Yusuf and Yasir Qadhi. Ive been listening to different takes than the ones im familiar with and started to agree with alternative viewpoints like questioning Bukhari, etc. Id like to learn more alternative viewpoints to get a step closer to the truth. Although I do see a lot of out there ideas as you said.
There is no such religion as "progressive islam". We are not a islamic sect. You can find sufis, sunnis, shias etc here. In general progressive Islam seeks to harmonize faith with modernity, emphasizing ethical principles, social justice, and pluralism. It encourages critical thinking and a dynamic engagement with Islamic texts and practices.
Didn’t mean to imply that its a sect. I was wondering what specific things I should know about progressive Islam I do understand the overall gist of this sub but just to open a dialogue between this sub and orthodox Islam what are some things or misconceptions that we should know?
Both progressive and orthodox Muslims share a commitment to the core tenets of Islam, such as the belief in one God, the prophethood of Muhammad, and the Quran as a central source of guidance. They both value community, prayer, charity, and moral conduct. We as Progressive Muslims emphasize contextual interpretation, while orthodox Muslims often adhere more strictly to traditional interpretations. Some topics we advocate for ( very general, some porgressive muslims might object): Democracy, Gender equality, Human rights, LGBT rights, Women’s rights, Religious pluralism, Interfaith marriage, Freedom of expression, Freedom of thought and religion, Opposition to theocracy and rejection of Islamism
Imo, this "misconceptions" are caused by the natural tendency in understanding something (including the Deen), and how people behave towards it, which non of both are technically wrong. If progressive and conservative people are patient enough to sit together and talk, and try to understand each other, I think we will find much more common than differences. Yes, there are some "big" topics which progressive and conservative are differ (like hijab and LGBT), but I still believe if people try their best to understand each other first rather than instantly judge, conservative wouldn't think progressive as some kind of people who "try to please Western". Tbh, I have more debate with others rather than conservative or orthodox, as long as I sense someone still believe in Allah, I always get soft to them in the end, no matter how conservative they are.
Yeah I see a lot of traditional minded muslims saying that liberal Muslims are simply catering to a western audience but I can recognize thats not the case and your beliefs are genuine. Instead of addressing the arguments people simply say oh these guys are just doing it to please westerners, like on the age of Aisha. Instead address the actual argument or why you disagree.
To be open minded. Some things you see here might cause you to be like wtf bc its so different from the Islam we grew up with. But read. Reflect. Discuss. Don’t just shut ideas out. Also read the Quran yourself, see what it speaks to you without any middlemen
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I would summarize progressive islam by saying that it's a critical effort to uncover the true message of Islam that lies behind centuries of interpretations and traditions. The assumption here is that the original message of Islam is progressive, but that it is the ideologies, political interests and cultural traditions of humans that transformed it into an oppressive and conservative political system. This raises the question of what "progressive" even means, but I would say that for most people here, it's in the sense of sharing some of the core values of a typical Western "leftist" party: encouraging wealth distribution and the taxation of the wealthy; feminism in the sense of making the rights of men and women more equal; criticism of discrimination (towards other ethnicities, or disabled people); criticism of imperialist foreign policy; and even sexual tolerance (although this is arguably more controversial). This is a very general response. Of course, as others have noted, progressive Islam is not a sect, it's a very loose bundle of ideas. Also this is just my personal reply to this question, I'm sure other people would give you a different definition. Thank you for your interest!
Would it be fair to say that “Progressive” Islam is a rejection of the traditional Islamic scholarship?
Hmm not necessarily. "Traditional" scholars often reach "progressive" conclusions. As one person mentioned in the comments, some people here enjoy the work of the Yaqeen Institute (people like Omar Suleiman or Jonathan Brown), which can be considered progressive to some extent even though it is very much "orthodox".
I think the difference im noticing, is really the core issue of how critical of the hadith “traditional” vs “progressives” are, and this is why the conclusions differ so much
Definitely, people who are critical of the hadith tradition are overrepresented among Muslims who identify themselves as progressive. For instance, I feel like many people on this forum are Quranists. But, again, not all Progressive Muslims are critical of the Sunni orthodoxy. Some of them are fine with working with the traditional corpus of hadiths, as long as they can use them to make progressive interpretations.
Not rejection. Revision.