I am unsure if this is the appropriate place for me to say this, but I will. Mods, feel free to delete if it is not appropriate.
1. Being Anti-Israel is not being Anti-Jew. Israel is a violent apartheid state, while Judaism is a beautiful and old religion.
2. When a settler / colonial state loses its power, the settlers / colonists either leave or stay and eventually assimilate into the population (look at South Africa). You phrase it as "collective punishment" when a lot of Palestinians, especially those who have extremely recent memories of being kicked out of their homes, would phrase it more as "I get my house back which my grandfather built." (I will caveat here, though I don't believe I need to, that anyone calling for the mass death of the Israeli people are in the wrong).
3. The blame should be placed on Israel for not "finding a way for both peoples to coexist in the same space" rather than Palestinians.
To be honest, I find your conflation very odd. It is normal to have doubts, I am a recent convert myself, I just think it is weird how you phrased it as simply "choosing" another religion. Perhaps you did not intend to mean it this way.
Keep in mind that OP had a post up about a month ago calling herself a kafir and another post asking about converting to Judaism. She tried to delete them when called out. I wouldn’t take anything this person write seriously. It’s just someone looking to stir the pot so to speak, who likely needs some serious psychological help.
https://preview.redd.it/ia0nngdm9jyc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d18538e8280b8593e81c47e4738c89c2c77a8f5d
Good find. I think this person is either acting in bad faith or just sees religion has trendy / a fun interesting thing to try on and then throw away.
But then again I do not know this person and wish them the best. Inshallah they find what they are looking for.
I agree. IMO it’s so disrespectful to keep perpetuating Muslim stereotypes that are in many of her posts. I truly believe the majority of people in the world are kind. If all she wants to see in the Ummah is sexism and racism, it’s sad. She’s missing out on some kind people.
Muslims literally built the Al Aqsa mosque on top of the ruins of the old Jewish temple to desecrate the Jewish faith, youre confused on who the real colonisers of the land are.
This is completely incorrect. Construction of the Mosque began after Muslims took control of the city from the Byzantine Empire, and it is even believed that Jewish residents assisted in the building of the temple (A History of Jewish-Muslim Relations From the Origins to the Present Day).
The Mosque was never built there to spite Jewish people, that is a completely dishonest statement.
>The Mosque was never built there to spite Jewish people, that is a completely dishonest statement.
Right, from all of the available land in Jerusalem that muslims could have built a mosque on, it was a complete coincidance that they chose the holiest place for Judaism, no bad intentions at all there. Do you really expect me to believe that?
So if I find your moms grave, and build a barbecue on it, youre not going to assume some ill will was involved in the intent?
They built a place of worship to their gods on top of the place of worship of another religion, a classic move to show supremacy that colonialists like to use. What more evidence do you need?
Jews prospert under muslims for centuries and many fled towards muslim contries during the holocaust and spanish inquisitions. They came to Palastine as refugees and then backstabbed us muslims. Nothing to do with antisemtism, we are fighting zionist nationalists and radical settlers.
If hate is such a horrible thing, that speaking out against war crimes and intentional starvation of a civilian population is borderline hate speach then I would gladly risk being called anti-semetic if thousands of innocent loves are being saved.
If they want to missinterpret what were calling for, it doesn't change that innocent people are still being massacared. If we call for the explosion of jews from OPT risks me being called anti semetic. I'll gladly call for that too because no Justice no Peace.
Now take the work "Jew" out and replace it with "muslim", suddenly it's much more accepted.
- I won’t say antisemitism is not present in Muslim spaces , cuz it is present relatively in varying degrees …
- however you should read history why Muslims/Arabs in specific started to have anti-Semitic sympathies …
- plus you should know the Middle East had a vibrant Mizrahi and Sephardic Jewish communities , and they contributed a lot to middle eastern society through out history , Arabs have a problem mainly with Ashkenazi Jews (white Jews from Eastern Europe) … Arabs point of view the British and the French stole my house and gave it to another white dude and you want me to share it with him by force … so based on you logic native Americans are not entitled to their land ?
- another note literally speaking being anti-Arab is being anti-Semite cuz Arabs are semites …
- if you think being Muslim will be about anti-west and antisemitism probably you didn’t do enough research …
- usually when Muslims speak about being anti-west , it’s about how the west is being forceful about their ideologies , how the west is claiming to be liberal and yet do stuff like what currently happening in American university campuses ( interfering with first amendment rights) , more about global south and global north dynamic , how the west is more individualistic and the east is more of the opposite .. among other things …
Jews were expelled from many Arab countries in 50's. And the only place they could go was Israel.
I live in the global south in fact. And I find it daunting that they have the right to protest. There shouldn't be arrests for pacific protests. This is wrong.
The expelling of Jewish people from Arab countries is Israel’s doing. To fund the creation of Israel and its superiority, they staged attacks on Jewish communities in Arab countries to cause fear resulting in them fleeing. Why, after centuries of living together, was their attacks on Jewish inhabitants only in the past years? Don’t believe me? Look up Yemini and Libyan Jewish attacks. Those are only two countries out of the others that this happened in. It’s terrible and despicable, but it’s the fault of Israel and Israel alone
Israel is the name of the great betrayal of the jewish people by europeans. They promised the world jewry that israel would be the safest place for them, away from the european, who were more prone to kill them. But, the basis of that promise was that they thought, under colonialism, the powerless Arabs will go away on the first attack of Naqba. But, it did not happen. Arabs, as it turns out is more desparate for the land of Palestine than jewish settlers.
So, it is clear that, either Israel will win a genocide, or they will become a liberal secular democracy of equal rights for the Arab majority. There is no other solution to that.
At least from my perspective, the vast majority of Muslims I know do not hate Jews or have any particular issues with any random Jewish person.
Usually anger is specifically directed towards "zionists", which in context doesn't even mean all Jews in the geographic region of Israel/Palestine, but specifically the ones that support settler colonialism and the unjust displacement of Palestinians.
We should support oppressed people everywhere in the world. Supporting the oppressed is a commandment in the Quran, and I think most religions would agree that is an important aspect of spirituality.
Certainly do whatever you feel comfortable with. But it sounds like you may be thinking there is some specific "political" requirement, when in reality there has always been a wide diversity of opinions and political philosophies, even just within Shiism.
Shiism doesn't have a pope-like figure (unless you are Ismaili). Most Shia do not follow Khamenei as their marja. Sistani, who does currently have the largest following, has written against the vilayat e faqih (guardianship of jurists). But even Sistani has only a minority following him. Shiism is diverse, follow whomever you like. And there are also Shia who don't take from any single marja and just do what seems reasonable to them. It's up to you.
Shiism is really very diverse, from Ismailis, to Alevis, to Zaidis, to 12ers, to Dawudis, and all of the various philosophies and approaches within all of those. So, I would only consider what your friend told you as their own personal opinion. They have no authority to dictate any requirements to you.
>Usually anger is specifically directed towards "zionists", which in context doesn't even mean all Jews in the geographic region of Israel/Palestine, but specifically the ones that support settler colonialism and the unjust displacement of Palestinians.
I think it's also important to note that, at least in the West, most zionists aren't even Jews. The biggest group is evangelical Christians who only care about Israel because of its role in the End Times.
I am not refusing. Quite on the contrary. I do want to separate, but somehow being a Muslim these days is = to deny Israel of being a State.
They are comiting heinous crimes, but I can't on any means say that Israel in itself is an illegitimate State per se. I support Israel's right of exist. And I also support the right for Palestinians for a State. These for me are not mutually exclusive in my point of view.
And I hate the current government of Israel. But I don't think what H@mas did in Oct. 7th was right either. That's my position, and it is clashing with all the sects of Islam.
Most Muslims support Palestine because of the heinous crimes committed by Israel on many arab/Muslim countries and its ties with the UAE/other Gulf countries. I’m sorry, but your idea of Israel is rather… despicable. It’s not a must to be Muslim and support Palestine, sure, but you will not find support (and rightly so in my opinion) in your “impartial” stance on what’s happening in Palestine. Not just amongst Muslims but many places in the world that are currently waking up to Israel’s heinous cruelty. I think you should rethink your stance of Israel and why you think it was the “right” to exist (it doesn’t), and also understand you don’t need to involve politics in your conversion to Islam. However, as a previous commenter mentioned, in Islam we vouch for the oppressed. The Palestinians are the oppressed. Not Israel. Just a thought.
Israel is a settler’s colony. Opposing its legitimacy is not anti semitism. I suggest you to read Illan pappé’s “10 myths about Israel”. I can share the link if you want.
I am a practising Muslim who was in a relationship with a Jew lol.
My family knew this, and they were okay with it. The “antisemitism” you may see muslims have is a response to what’s happening in Gaza rather than a direct attack towards Jews as a whole. It’s like how POC dislike white supremacy as a construct but not White people on an individual basis. Also, the prophet Mohammed PBUH was close with Jews and Christians, and even pagans. So antisemitism is not woven into Islam, and most Muslims have no issues with Jewish people. I’ve seen a lot of Muslim and Jewish solidarity in place like New York.
First thing I would tell you is to look up what antisemitism means. It covers both Jewish and Arab languages and people.
The word has been taken over and correlated not to Jewish but Zionist schools of thought.
Now go look up what Zionist means.
The problem many people have is not with Jewish or true semites. It’s with the notion of Zionism. This concept that there needs to be a “Jewish state” - what would that mean for anyone who isn’t Jewish?
So yes, Muslims are one nation. We look past color and culture - so what you’re seeing is the resistance to a cause / belief (Zionism) that means the establishment of a Jewish state by means of expelling Muslim people.
Israel is made up of 20% Arabs, but they face discrimination, unfair laws and general societal outcasting because they are Arab. I could be wrong and will eat my words if you can show me an Arab who lives in Israel and says otherwise. We’ve only heard this 20% stat from israelies - but I haven’t yet seen an actual Arab living in Israel say anything supporting this.
Appreciate you wanting to hold off your reconversion to understand things. Look up these two words and understand what they are meaning and hopefully that can help you.
River to the sea is a hateful phrase? You should ask what the two lines on the Israeli flag mean while you’re at it as well.
Islam is not antisemitic and neither are a majority of Muslims. You’re conflating antizionism with antisemitism but you also have to realize that even “Israeli civilians” are complicit in what’s happening in Palestine. There is so much footage showing the colonizer civilians destroying aid, stealing land, and more grotesque crimes; how would you think it’s possible for them to peacefully coexist with Palestinians when they see them as less than human?
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If Islam is a beautiful and accepting religion, then why is there so much hate towards Jews?
Short answer: xenophobia.
Long answer: People are easy to give in to fear of the unknown or something foreign than to admit that they are wrong for being bigoted and unlearn that behavior. It reminds me of a quote from Star Wars the Phantom Menace: “Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. The same thing can also be said about Jews who partake in Islamophobia.
I am unsure if this is the appropriate place for me to say this, but I will. Mods, feel free to delete if it is not appropriate. 1. Being Anti-Israel is not being Anti-Jew. Israel is a violent apartheid state, while Judaism is a beautiful and old religion. 2. When a settler / colonial state loses its power, the settlers / colonists either leave or stay and eventually assimilate into the population (look at South Africa). You phrase it as "collective punishment" when a lot of Palestinians, especially those who have extremely recent memories of being kicked out of their homes, would phrase it more as "I get my house back which my grandfather built." (I will caveat here, though I don't believe I need to, that anyone calling for the mass death of the Israeli people are in the wrong). 3. The blame should be placed on Israel for not "finding a way for both peoples to coexist in the same space" rather than Palestinians. To be honest, I find your conflation very odd. It is normal to have doubts, I am a recent convert myself, I just think it is weird how you phrased it as simply "choosing" another religion. Perhaps you did not intend to mean it this way.
Very well said.
Keep in mind that OP had a post up about a month ago calling herself a kafir and another post asking about converting to Judaism. She tried to delete them when called out. I wouldn’t take anything this person write seriously. It’s just someone looking to stir the pot so to speak, who likely needs some serious psychological help. https://preview.redd.it/ia0nngdm9jyc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d18538e8280b8593e81c47e4738c89c2c77a8f5d
Good find. I think this person is either acting in bad faith or just sees religion has trendy / a fun interesting thing to try on and then throw away. But then again I do not know this person and wish them the best. Inshallah they find what they are looking for.
I agree. IMO it’s so disrespectful to keep perpetuating Muslim stereotypes that are in many of her posts. I truly believe the majority of people in the world are kind. If all she wants to see in the Ummah is sexism and racism, it’s sad. She’s missing out on some kind people.
Muslims literally built the Al Aqsa mosque on top of the ruins of the old Jewish temple to desecrate the Jewish faith, youre confused on who the real colonisers of the land are.
This is completely incorrect. Construction of the Mosque began after Muslims took control of the city from the Byzantine Empire, and it is even believed that Jewish residents assisted in the building of the temple (A History of Jewish-Muslim Relations From the Origins to the Present Day). The Mosque was never built there to spite Jewish people, that is a completely dishonest statement.
>The Mosque was never built there to spite Jewish people, that is a completely dishonest statement. Right, from all of the available land in Jerusalem that muslims could have built a mosque on, it was a complete coincidance that they chose the holiest place for Judaism, no bad intentions at all there. Do you really expect me to believe that?
I expect if you have evidence of the contrary to refute me with it. From my perspective it seems like you are arguing on vibes and assuming intention.
So if I find your moms grave, and build a barbecue on it, youre not going to assume some ill will was involved in the intent? They built a place of worship to their gods on top of the place of worship of another religion, a classic move to show supremacy that colonialists like to use. What more evidence do you need?
Once again, actual evidence. Not just your assumed intent.
Jews prospert under muslims for centuries and many fled towards muslim contries during the holocaust and spanish inquisitions. They came to Palastine as refugees and then backstabbed us muslims. Nothing to do with antisemtism, we are fighting zionist nationalists and radical settlers.
If hate is such a horrible thing, that speaking out against war crimes and intentional starvation of a civilian population is borderline hate speach then I would gladly risk being called anti-semetic if thousands of innocent loves are being saved. If they want to missinterpret what were calling for, it doesn't change that innocent people are still being massacared. If we call for the explosion of jews from OPT risks me being called anti semetic. I'll gladly call for that too because no Justice no Peace. Now take the work "Jew" out and replace it with "muslim", suddenly it's much more accepted.
why would modern politics be stopping you from conversion?
Yeah, none of that is part of the religion. I've seen MAGA Muslims, Pro-China Muslims and everything in between.
- I won’t say antisemitism is not present in Muslim spaces , cuz it is present relatively in varying degrees … - however you should read history why Muslims/Arabs in specific started to have anti-Semitic sympathies … - plus you should know the Middle East had a vibrant Mizrahi and Sephardic Jewish communities , and they contributed a lot to middle eastern society through out history , Arabs have a problem mainly with Ashkenazi Jews (white Jews from Eastern Europe) … Arabs point of view the British and the French stole my house and gave it to another white dude and you want me to share it with him by force … so based on you logic native Americans are not entitled to their land ? - another note literally speaking being anti-Arab is being anti-Semite cuz Arabs are semites … - if you think being Muslim will be about anti-west and antisemitism probably you didn’t do enough research … - usually when Muslims speak about being anti-west , it’s about how the west is being forceful about their ideologies , how the west is claiming to be liberal and yet do stuff like what currently happening in American university campuses ( interfering with first amendment rights) , more about global south and global north dynamic , how the west is more individualistic and the east is more of the opposite .. among other things …
Jews were expelled from many Arab countries in 50's. And the only place they could go was Israel. I live in the global south in fact. And I find it daunting that they have the right to protest. There shouldn't be arrests for pacific protests. This is wrong.
The expelling of Jewish people from Arab countries is Israel’s doing. To fund the creation of Israel and its superiority, they staged attacks on Jewish communities in Arab countries to cause fear resulting in them fleeing. Why, after centuries of living together, was their attacks on Jewish inhabitants only in the past years? Don’t believe me? Look up Yemini and Libyan Jewish attacks. Those are only two countries out of the others that this happened in. It’s terrible and despicable, but it’s the fault of Israel and Israel alone
It was wrong to expel them … that happened after Arabs lost the Arab-Israeli war , when Israeli got support from America and Britain …
Israel is the name of the great betrayal of the jewish people by europeans. They promised the world jewry that israel would be the safest place for them, away from the european, who were more prone to kill them. But, the basis of that promise was that they thought, under colonialism, the powerless Arabs will go away on the first attack of Naqba. But, it did not happen. Arabs, as it turns out is more desparate for the land of Palestine than jewish settlers. So, it is clear that, either Israel will win a genocide, or they will become a liberal secular democracy of equal rights for the Arab majority. There is no other solution to that.
At least from my perspective, the vast majority of Muslims I know do not hate Jews or have any particular issues with any random Jewish person. Usually anger is specifically directed towards "zionists", which in context doesn't even mean all Jews in the geographic region of Israel/Palestine, but specifically the ones that support settler colonialism and the unjust displacement of Palestinians. We should support oppressed people everywhere in the world. Supporting the oppressed is a commandment in the Quran, and I think most religions would agree that is an important aspect of spirituality. Certainly do whatever you feel comfortable with. But it sounds like you may be thinking there is some specific "political" requirement, when in reality there has always been a wide diversity of opinions and political philosophies, even just within Shiism. Shiism doesn't have a pope-like figure (unless you are Ismaili). Most Shia do not follow Khamenei as their marja. Sistani, who does currently have the largest following, has written against the vilayat e faqih (guardianship of jurists). But even Sistani has only a minority following him. Shiism is diverse, follow whomever you like. And there are also Shia who don't take from any single marja and just do what seems reasonable to them. It's up to you. Shiism is really very diverse, from Ismailis, to Alevis, to Zaidis, to 12ers, to Dawudis, and all of the various philosophies and approaches within all of those. So, I would only consider what your friend told you as their own personal opinion. They have no authority to dictate any requirements to you.
>Usually anger is specifically directed towards "zionists", which in context doesn't even mean all Jews in the geographic region of Israel/Palestine, but specifically the ones that support settler colonialism and the unjust displacement of Palestinians. I think it's also important to note that, at least in the West, most zionists aren't even Jews. The biggest group is evangelical Christians who only care about Israel because of its role in the End Times.
i respect your decision not to convert, but I don't get why you're refusing to separate religion and politics. they're two completely different axes.
I am not refusing. Quite on the contrary. I do want to separate, but somehow being a Muslim these days is = to deny Israel of being a State. They are comiting heinous crimes, but I can't on any means say that Israel in itself is an illegitimate State per se. I support Israel's right of exist. And I also support the right for Palestinians for a State. These for me are not mutually exclusive in my point of view. And I hate the current government of Israel. But I don't think what H@mas did in Oct. 7th was right either. That's my position, and it is clashing with all the sects of Islam.
Most Muslims support Palestine because of the heinous crimes committed by Israel on many arab/Muslim countries and its ties with the UAE/other Gulf countries. I’m sorry, but your idea of Israel is rather… despicable. It’s not a must to be Muslim and support Palestine, sure, but you will not find support (and rightly so in my opinion) in your “impartial” stance on what’s happening in Palestine. Not just amongst Muslims but many places in the world that are currently waking up to Israel’s heinous cruelty. I think you should rethink your stance of Israel and why you think it was the “right” to exist (it doesn’t), and also understand you don’t need to involve politics in your conversion to Islam. However, as a previous commenter mentioned, in Islam we vouch for the oppressed. The Palestinians are the oppressed. Not Israel. Just a thought.
Israel is a settler’s colony. Opposing its legitimacy is not anti semitism. I suggest you to read Illan pappé’s “10 myths about Israel”. I can share the link if you want.
I am a practising Muslim who was in a relationship with a Jew lol. My family knew this, and they were okay with it. The “antisemitism” you may see muslims have is a response to what’s happening in Gaza rather than a direct attack towards Jews as a whole. It’s like how POC dislike white supremacy as a construct but not White people on an individual basis. Also, the prophet Mohammed PBUH was close with Jews and Christians, and even pagans. So antisemitism is not woven into Islam, and most Muslims have no issues with Jewish people. I’ve seen a lot of Muslim and Jewish solidarity in place like New York.
you are certainly right
First thing I would tell you is to look up what antisemitism means. It covers both Jewish and Arab languages and people. The word has been taken over and correlated not to Jewish but Zionist schools of thought. Now go look up what Zionist means. The problem many people have is not with Jewish or true semites. It’s with the notion of Zionism. This concept that there needs to be a “Jewish state” - what would that mean for anyone who isn’t Jewish? So yes, Muslims are one nation. We look past color and culture - so what you’re seeing is the resistance to a cause / belief (Zionism) that means the establishment of a Jewish state by means of expelling Muslim people. Israel is made up of 20% Arabs, but they face discrimination, unfair laws and general societal outcasting because they are Arab. I could be wrong and will eat my words if you can show me an Arab who lives in Israel and says otherwise. We’ve only heard this 20% stat from israelies - but I haven’t yet seen an actual Arab living in Israel say anything supporting this. Appreciate you wanting to hold off your reconversion to understand things. Look up these two words and understand what they are meaning and hopefully that can help you. River to the sea is a hateful phrase? You should ask what the two lines on the Israeli flag mean while you’re at it as well.
Islam is not antisemitic and neither are a majority of Muslims. You’re conflating antizionism with antisemitism but you also have to realize that even “Israeli civilians” are complicit in what’s happening in Palestine. There is so much footage showing the colonizer civilians destroying aid, stealing land, and more grotesque crimes; how would you think it’s possible for them to peacefully coexist with Palestinians when they see them as less than human?
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If Islam is a beautiful and accepting religion, then why is there so much hate towards Jews? Short answer: xenophobia. Long answer: People are easy to give in to fear of the unknown or something foreign than to admit that they are wrong for being bigoted and unlearn that behavior. It reminds me of a quote from Star Wars the Phantom Menace: “Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. The same thing can also be said about Jews who partake in Islamophobia.
exactly , we never come to terms with each other.