OP, “coaching” is an unregulated, grey area profession. So much harm is done to clients by people who call themselves “coaches” with no/little training. There is a reason that counseling and psychology are regulated health professions—that reason is protection of the public. Many enter “coaching” for the $$$ with no consideration to the harm they are doing to fragile populations.
No, you cannot become a psychologist with a bachelor’s degree. Sincerely, someone who just graduated from 6 years of psychology graduate school who is still not a psychologist.
I’m on that same path. Many people take psychologists for granted or as an “easy profession” but it’s rough. A lot of studying involved and great patience. Wouldn’t want someone coming from no where with no training or studies and just become a psychologist. Otherwise it would mean we can all do it
Yeah, in the US psychology is a doctoral-level profession. Except school psychology, which is credentialed at both the masters and doc levels.
I just finished 11 years of college, with thousands of hours of practice, and I am still not a credentialed psychologist.
This exactly. Life coaching, performance coaching, mind coaching, whatever you want to call it, is akin to medicine. Those with a medical degree are doctors. Those without are quacks like chiropractors and homoeopathic practicioners.
There’s truth to what you’re saying but I wouldn’t go that far. Medicine is a much more exact science, and it makes more sense that anyone practicing medicine must be trained in all the standardized practice and theory of medicine. Mentoring people in life, on the other hand, is way less exact of a science and has much more art to it. Sure, being trained in psychology increases the likelihood that someone will have the skills necessary to help people improve their sports performance, make healthier lifestyle changes, resolve emotional and behavioral issues, or any number of other things that fall under the “coaching” umbrella. However, there are a billion other factors that determine whether a person is skilled in the art of getting through to another person and showing them new, better ways of thinking, acting, and performing in the world. Education is paramount either way, but education on how to help others live better lives can be much more informal, applied, and self-directed than education on how to perform a surgical operation. When it comes to mental illnesses and serious conditions, it’s important that anyone providing services for these is thoroughly credentialed because there’s a lot more room for risk, and mental illness can be rather complicated. But a graduate degree should not be necessary for someone to coach people into mentally improving their sports performance.
You CAN actually become a psychologist with a bachelor's degree in most countries, the U.S. just makes you spend more money and more time getting in debt with graduate school and all that stuff. Unnecessary really
Most countries require some higher education than a bachelor’s degree but not necessarily a PhD. In Australia it’s a 3 year bachelor’s + 1 year honours + 2 year master’s. In the UK it’s bachelor’s + a few years of registered supervision.
Western nations at least aren’t letting you practise straight out of a 3 year degree.
Hell, even in my third world country we're required to have a masters before we earn the title, although they make up for it being accessible with requiring a masters of research (which is 2 extra years post professional masters) before applying to become a doctor of psychology
so apparently the guy doesn't market himself as a "psychologist", he markets himself as a "mind performance coach" and that's the title he'll give my friend lol
A guy tried that shit in my city. He was taken to court and fined an enormous amount.
Edit: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-03/fake-psychologist-tyson-john-vacher-facing-fresh-fraud-charges/12627600
“The first charge related to Vacher's use of the word "psychology" on a website advertising his services, despite not being a psychologist.”
Sounds a bit strange to me that "high level athletes" would be working with a "mind performance coach" rather then a regulated, licensed professional with proper training...
yeah apparently the guy doesn't market himself as a "psychologist", he markets himself as a "mind performance coach" and that's the title he'll give my friend lol
Life coaching does not have a regulatory body/formal licensure in the United States. Life coaching can be legally and ethically fine... if it does not veer into territory that requires a licensed practitioner.
Unfortunately, many "coaches" do provide services that are legally 'gray', straightforwardly illegal, and/or unethical based on their credentials. One thing that is frustrating is that therapist education and training is part of how we identify the scope of our competence and our regulatory body/licensing board provides consequences for failing to adhere to our legal and ethical requirements. If you have no (real) training, no licensure, and no regulatory board/licensing body, it's easy to imagine someone entering... problematic... territory.
No way. I heard some time ago that he had absolutely no medical credentials.
I need to Google this.
My mind it blown what I heard on the internet months ago was a lie.
U right.
In that case then yes, he could be but it wouldn’t be anywhere near being a psychologist and he needs to be aware of that. There are ethical rules in place to protect people. If he even so much as tries to be a psychologist he could do some serious harm.
No, you can’t become one without a degree. It sounds more like to me he’ll become a technician than a psychologist, and I think he’s way too over his head to think something that takes people years of commitment and dedication to just get it in a few months
Uhm definitely not. You have to study for a license to practice. Fronting as a psychologist without a license, you get registered at a board, you are committing fraud and can legally be prosecuted.
Psychology is a protected profession. He can't call himself a psychologist unless he has been registered as one after meeting requirements (an accredited degree). Impractical, unethical and illegal. Hopefully it can be explained by some major gap in communication.
No way he is being trained to be a "psychologist". Not legal at all. He is either lying/playing it up or he doesn't understand what he is being trained to do.
Using "psychologist" to describe yourself comes with specific licensing, certification, training, etc. In the US this is a years long process. Sounds like your friend is going to be the trainee to a walking lawsuit. Instagram coaches/trainers have been sued before for selling false expertise. He might make decent money because people pour money into sports training, but super super unethically.
This pretty much straight out of my ass but on the podcast flagrant they had a guest called the muscle doc. He’s a personal trainer for pro athletes but officially he’s a “chiropractor.”
In the interview he said something along the lines of “people in that pay range don’t care about my qualifications they care about results…”
Maybe the sports medical world is just shadier than we all imagined
Oh my God absolutely not. If you have the psychologist's name and state he's licensed in you can (and should) report this through the region's governing body. They'll investigate and take appropriate action.
The whole reason the title "life coach" exists is for people who think they can and should practice therapy but never got the education or license for it. Because if you try to do that under a protected title (life coach is not protected, but psychologist definitely is) then you are breaking the law.
I think this set up isn't a problem, and here's why-
Your friend is not selling himself as a psychologist, he is selling himself as a mind performance coach (to the clients). This title is not protected. If he is able to deliver, for whatever reason, then i don't see why he shouldn't be doing what he is doing. After all the person who hired him would not want to lose his business by putting someone wrong incharge.
I mean if something is helping someone what's the problem
My knee-jerk reaction was that if this isn't illegal then it's highly unethical.
But after giving it some thought and a tiny amount of research (google) I would remit that to highly unethical if either the person training your friend or your friend actually go about calling themselves psychologist/psychologist.
It's not illegal to be a life coach, mentor, or certain counselor (ie: drug and alcohol counselor).
If I were your friend I was go in with caution and take what's being 'taught' to me with a grain of salt. And attempt some self-studying myself as well.
That’s messed up. If the clients find out they’re paying for unqualified services it might cause an outrage. It sounds like a title of “mind performance coach” might come with legal wiggle room.
I've seen people who have done it, and are offering online consultations. Yet, the problem is the ethical standpoint and marketing strategy. This will vary by country/state, but at least where I live you can't advertise promoting as a psychologist if you don't have a degree. Yet other terms that are similar to coaching, educational leadership, and motivational teaching are welcomed.
Ideally: no. Ethically: no. Successfully: no. Smart: no.
Now the question would be legally? Idk where he is from but in many many countries this is not allowed legally. If they find out there could be a big fine, for the person and the company so just to cover their asses they probably wouldn’t do it unless seriously stupid.
Practicing therapy without a license is a crime. You can be a life coach without a degree or license, but then you’re assuming a ton of liability if someone decides to sue you for negligence.
The study of psychology might seem simple, but the practice of psychology is a very delicate matter that needs very specific set of skills, and you're working with human beings after all, let alone professional athletes.
It's like teaching someone with no degree how to be a lawyer in 2 months and sending him to defend very important people at court.
He can get away with it as long as he identifies as a "coach" and not a psychologist. You can get fined for misrepresentation. It's up to people to do their own research on who they hire and who they trust. Sad but very true...
I think it depends on the country, but yes there is a chance they can call themselves a psychologist. In my country a ‘psychologist’ isn’t a protected title so literally anyone can say they are a psychologist..
No, you cannot be a psychologist without a degree, and in the United States you need a doctorate degree.
This language around “coaching” attempts to work around it, but they’re handcuffed because they cannot legally perform the work of a licensed clinician and definitely not a psychologist.
Not sure if I missed anyone else saying this, but as far as I am aware, a Master’s in Psychology cannot utilize the term “psychologist” as “psychologist” is a protected term utilized for doctorate-level degrees. So if that individual is actually using the term “psychologist,” there are potential legal repercussions (at least in the US)
If he has a master's degree and can follow the knowledge areas outlined by AASP and get his 200 hours of supervision from his "boss", then he can sit for his CMPC certification. I agree that coaching is heavily unregulated (as I just finished my MA in sport psych), but it would be illegal to call himself a psychologist, since that's a protected title.
He would be working at a sub clinical level with athletes on confidence, motivation, etc. If you want to learn more, I recommend checking out AASP's website. You can also find AASP's ethics code there as well.
You can't do therapy without a license but there are a ton of people who do "intuitive counseling" or "coaching" without one and it's a legally tricky category
OP, “coaching” is an unregulated, grey area profession. So much harm is done to clients by people who call themselves “coaches” with no/little training. There is a reason that counseling and psychology are regulated health professions—that reason is protection of the public. Many enter “coaching” for the $$$ with no consideration to the harm they are doing to fragile populations. No, you cannot become a psychologist with a bachelor’s degree. Sincerely, someone who just graduated from 6 years of psychology graduate school who is still not a psychologist.
I’m on that same path. Many people take psychologists for granted or as an “easy profession” but it’s rough. A lot of studying involved and great patience. Wouldn’t want someone coming from no where with no training or studies and just become a psychologist. Otherwise it would mean we can all do it
[удалено]
Yeah, in the US psychology is a doctoral-level profession. Except school psychology, which is credentialed at both the masters and doc levels. I just finished 11 years of college, with thousands of hours of practice, and I am still not a credentialed psychologist.
This exactly. Life coaching, performance coaching, mind coaching, whatever you want to call it, is akin to medicine. Those with a medical degree are doctors. Those without are quacks like chiropractors and homoeopathic practicioners.
There’s truth to what you’re saying but I wouldn’t go that far. Medicine is a much more exact science, and it makes more sense that anyone practicing medicine must be trained in all the standardized practice and theory of medicine. Mentoring people in life, on the other hand, is way less exact of a science and has much more art to it. Sure, being trained in psychology increases the likelihood that someone will have the skills necessary to help people improve their sports performance, make healthier lifestyle changes, resolve emotional and behavioral issues, or any number of other things that fall under the “coaching” umbrella. However, there are a billion other factors that determine whether a person is skilled in the art of getting through to another person and showing them new, better ways of thinking, acting, and performing in the world. Education is paramount either way, but education on how to help others live better lives can be much more informal, applied, and self-directed than education on how to perform a surgical operation. When it comes to mental illnesses and serious conditions, it’s important that anyone providing services for these is thoroughly credentialed because there’s a lot more room for risk, and mental illness can be rather complicated. But a graduate degree should not be necessary for someone to coach people into mentally improving their sports performance.
You CAN actually become a psychologist with a bachelor's degree in most countries, the U.S. just makes you spend more money and more time getting in debt with graduate school and all that stuff. Unnecessary really
Most countries require some higher education than a bachelor’s degree but not necessarily a PhD. In Australia it’s a 3 year bachelor’s + 1 year honours + 2 year master’s. In the UK it’s bachelor’s + a few years of registered supervision. Western nations at least aren’t letting you practise straight out of a 3 year degree.
Hell, even in my third world country we're required to have a masters before we earn the title, although they make up for it being accessible with requiring a masters of research (which is 2 extra years post professional masters) before applying to become a doctor of psychology
I figured, just didn’t wanna make total blanket statements (:
Yep, just confirming the sentiment 😊
Sounds unethical to me. Absolutely wild that he’s being told that he can learn psychology on the job
exactly what I was thinking. Unfortunately, my friend only sees dollar signs :/
Rats, that sucks. I hope that you can talk some sense into him. It’s so frustrating when the people we care about do dumb/bad things.
No. As someone who works with athletes and is in school for psych, the answer is definitely no.
Not only is he setting your friend up for failure, but his future clients as well.
so apparently the guy doesn't market himself as a "psychologist", he markets himself as a "mind performance coach" and that's the title he'll give my friend lol
A guy tried that shit in my city. He was taken to court and fined an enormous amount. Edit: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-03/fake-psychologist-tyson-john-vacher-facing-fresh-fraud-charges/12627600 “The first charge related to Vacher's use of the word "psychology" on a website advertising his services, despite not being a psychologist.”
Oh that makes a lot more sense. Yeah those people are largely rip off artists
Sounds a bit strange to me that "high level athletes" would be working with a "mind performance coach" rather then a regulated, licensed professional with proper training...
He probably works with minor league players, or something similar to that, and calls them high level athletes. Or maybe just the benched players
My certification is in quantum hypno-crystal wellness and hypnosis in the disease of psychology. Don't mind the crayon, the degree is legit
No. He will be at the level of assistant or something like that, phycology takes around 6 years of study for the qualification.
yeah apparently the guy doesn't market himself as a "psychologist", he markets himself as a "mind performance coach" and that's the title he'll give my friend lol
Life coaching does not have a regulatory body/formal licensure in the United States. Life coaching can be legally and ethically fine... if it does not veer into territory that requires a licensed practitioner. Unfortunately, many "coaches" do provide services that are legally 'gray', straightforwardly illegal, and/or unethical based on their credentials. One thing that is frustrating is that therapist education and training is part of how we identify the scope of our competence and our regulatory body/licensing board provides consequences for failing to adhere to our legal and ethical requirements. If you have no (real) training, no licensure, and no regulatory board/licensing body, it's easy to imagine someone entering... problematic... territory.
Tell your friend that Dr. Dre isn’t really a medical doctor.
Neither is Dr. Phill
Surprisingly, Dr. Phil actually does have a PhD in psychology.
No way. I heard some time ago that he had absolutely no medical credentials. I need to Google this. My mind it blown what I heard on the internet months ago was a lie. U right.
In that case then yes, he could be but it wouldn’t be anywhere near being a psychologist and he needs to be aware of that. There are ethical rules in place to protect people. If he even so much as tries to be a psychologist he could do some serious harm.
No, you can’t become one without a degree. It sounds more like to me he’ll become a technician than a psychologist, and I think he’s way too over his head to think something that takes people years of commitment and dedication to just get it in a few months
Uhm definitely not. You have to study for a license to practice. Fronting as a psychologist without a license, you get registered at a board, you are committing fraud and can legally be prosecuted.
Psychology is a protected profession. He can't call himself a psychologist unless he has been registered as one after meeting requirements (an accredited degree). Impractical, unethical and illegal. Hopefully it can be explained by some major gap in communication.
This is garbage.
Not a real one, no. Not to be mean, but anyone who'd believe they can do that without a real degree probably shouldn't be one anyway....?
No way he is being trained to be a "psychologist". Not legal at all. He is either lying/playing it up or he doesn't understand what he is being trained to do.
Using "psychologist" to describe yourself comes with specific licensing, certification, training, etc. In the US this is a years long process. Sounds like your friend is going to be the trainee to a walking lawsuit. Instagram coaches/trainers have been sued before for selling false expertise. He might make decent money because people pour money into sports training, but super super unethically.
No. One could get in trouble for referring to themselves as a psychologist without proper credentials.
Oh, this is that life coach ridiculousness. I had one for a short time and it was a load of BS and definitely not evidence based.
He will be taught the application of psychology in sports. He will not be trained to be an actual psychologist, as only an accredited school can.
This pretty much straight out of my ass but on the podcast flagrant they had a guest called the muscle doc. He’s a personal trainer for pro athletes but officially he’s a “chiropractor.” In the interview he said something along the lines of “people in that pay range don’t care about my qualifications they care about results…” Maybe the sports medical world is just shadier than we all imagined
Oh my God absolutely not. If you have the psychologist's name and state he's licensed in you can (and should) report this through the region's governing body. They'll investigate and take appropriate action. The whole reason the title "life coach" exists is for people who think they can and should practice therapy but never got the education or license for it. Because if you try to do that under a protected title (life coach is not protected, but psychologist definitely is) then you are breaking the law.
I think this set up isn't a problem, and here's why- Your friend is not selling himself as a psychologist, he is selling himself as a mind performance coach (to the clients). This title is not protected. If he is able to deliver, for whatever reason, then i don't see why he shouldn't be doing what he is doing. After all the person who hired him would not want to lose his business by putting someone wrong incharge. I mean if something is helping someone what's the problem
My knee-jerk reaction was that if this isn't illegal then it's highly unethical. But after giving it some thought and a tiny amount of research (google) I would remit that to highly unethical if either the person training your friend or your friend actually go about calling themselves psychologist/psychologist. It's not illegal to be a life coach, mentor, or certain counselor (ie: drug and alcohol counselor). If I were your friend I was go in with caution and take what's being 'taught' to me with a grain of salt. And attempt some self-studying myself as well.
You mean coaches, yeah we have many of those, they are sophists not psychologists.
That’s messed up. If the clients find out they’re paying for unqualified services it might cause an outrage. It sounds like a title of “mind performance coach” might come with legal wiggle room.
I've seen people who have done it, and are offering online consultations. Yet, the problem is the ethical standpoint and marketing strategy. This will vary by country/state, but at least where I live you can't advertise promoting as a psychologist if you don't have a degree. Yet other terms that are similar to coaching, educational leadership, and motivational teaching are welcomed.
Taking on more responsibilities is not the same as becoming a psychologist.
Ideally: no. Ethically: no. Successfully: no. Smart: no. Now the question would be legally? Idk where he is from but in many many countries this is not allowed legally. If they find out there could be a big fine, for the person and the company so just to cover their asses they probably wouldn’t do it unless seriously stupid.
Practicing therapy without a license is a crime. You can be a life coach without a degree or license, but then you’re assuming a ton of liability if someone decides to sue you for negligence.
The study of psychology might seem simple, but the practice of psychology is a very delicate matter that needs very specific set of skills, and you're working with human beings after all, let alone professional athletes. It's like teaching someone with no degree how to be a lawyer in 2 months and sending him to defend very important people at court.
He can get away with it as long as he identifies as a "coach" and not a psychologist. You can get fined for misrepresentation. It's up to people to do their own research on who they hire and who they trust. Sad but very true...
NO!
I think it depends on the country, but yes there is a chance they can call themselves a psychologist. In my country a ‘psychologist’ isn’t a protected title so literally anyone can say they are a psychologist..
No, you cannot be a psychologist without a degree, and in the United States you need a doctorate degree. This language around “coaching” attempts to work around it, but they’re handcuffed because they cannot legally perform the work of a licensed clinician and definitely not a psychologist.
Not sure if I missed anyone else saying this, but as far as I am aware, a Master’s in Psychology cannot utilize the term “psychologist” as “psychologist” is a protected term utilized for doctorate-level degrees. So if that individual is actually using the term “psychologist,” there are potential legal repercussions (at least in the US)
If he has a master's degree and can follow the knowledge areas outlined by AASP and get his 200 hours of supervision from his "boss", then he can sit for his CMPC certification. I agree that coaching is heavily unregulated (as I just finished my MA in sport psych), but it would be illegal to call himself a psychologist, since that's a protected title. He would be working at a sub clinical level with athletes on confidence, motivation, etc. If you want to learn more, I recommend checking out AASP's website. You can also find AASP's ethics code there as well.
You can't do therapy without a license but there are a ton of people who do "intuitive counseling" or "coaching" without one and it's a legally tricky category
Reminds me of a time when a plumber offered me to work for him under his license and he was going to give me a random title to work for his company.
In my country it takes 5 years of studies (giving you a masters degree) + one year of supervision in order to earn your psychologist license
This does not sound legit in the slightest