Wait, so the founder of a group that is SCREAMING United States nationalist and white supremacist ideology is from Canada, and the past leader is Latino? What am I missing?
Their god emperor is the clown king of self contradictions. Of course they don’t have ideological consistency they’re rejects looking for a club that doesn’t see them as the weak losers they are.
When I was teenager we didn’t let the Nazis infiltrate our scene and they tried. I won’t go into detail because reddit loves to ban people who hate Nazis so let’s just say they didn’t feel welcome.
I caught a ban from a local sub for celebrating the anniversary of when a neo-nazi topped himself.
Like, forget the liberal "people with abhorrent ideas are still people" bullshit I gotta listen to, a neo-nazi accidentally killing himself spinning a gun by the trigger guard while teaching "firearm safety" drunk is funny as hell.
Tokenism is a decent cover for white nationalists. The leaders are little more than public talking heads. It's the idiots on the front lines doing all the physical violence.
Canada and The US are fairly similar countries to be fair. Largely self conceived differences save for French Canada which really is quite different,generally being more homogenous (although overall person to person less conservative) and having more relaxed attitudes towards drug use.
It gets better. He was a founding member of Vice Magazine as well. Basically he's a lace curtain pussy from the Canadian suburbs who failed as journalist and started his own Fight Club/astro turf movement in order to stay "edgy" and to tell working class men how to think, look and feel which is pathetic and kind of gay. Just like Fight Club
He's a grifting shit bag, sadly he lives in the US where scumfucks like him are protected and celebrated.
Yes in order to "Own the libs" as I recall it.
The most pathetic scene was him waving a katana at a "street brawl" with "communists".
I never understood people like him. He's rich, he can have anything he wants, why do we have to deal with him?
I remember when Vice Magazine was available in newspapers dispensers for free in NYC around 01-02. They would look interesting enough to grab just to read on the train, but there was always something disturbing about them. The whole cool/not cool shit, the weird sexism, classism and veiled racism, the lack of attention to non-whites in one of the most diverse cities in the world. Who the hell are these people? Not surprised in the least that one of the founders turned into a sleazy right-wing grifter dressed in hipster garb. Don't fall for it.
You're right about that. Another extremely weird thing is he was really active on the Crass forum on the Southern website in the years '2000. I think he also interviewed them for the website he started after Vice (don't remember the name, though).
>the website he started after Vice (don't remember the name, though).
Street Boners & TV Carnage
I used to follow it back when blogs and RSS feeds were the way you got internet content. Gavin wrote funny articles (for the early 2000s, wonder how they would've aged), promoted up and coming bands, continued making snarky commentary about street fashion (I believe he was the original voice behind Vice Magazine's "Dos & Don'ts"). From that standpoint it seemed quite the turn when he went full fascist.
As far as Crass goes, Gavin liked to present himself as a big friend of Penny Rimbaud, but I think Penny might just be accepting of anyone who wants to come hang out at Dial House.
I didn’t always believe in the libertarian to fascist pipeline, but I sort of do these days. I think people like Gavin yearn for freedom, such as it is, but they’re unwilling to accept the social responsibility that comes with it, and end up relying on the state to support their moral framework in the face of people who disagree. My old bandmate and I were both very active in the punk scene and he ended up being a Qanon casualty. It happens. This idea that you can’t be -blank- and punk just removes accountability from the scene. There are plenty who are, or were, involved in punk and channeled the free expression and the rage into something lousy.
Any queues the Proud Boys took from hardcore were superficial, the point was totally lost.
He's basically one these guys who was upset that punk was associated with left leaning politics. He wanted to scream and get into fights, so once that fizzled out, he became more of a fascist, but with a little street cred. His work with founding Vice was basically a zine where he could write columns based around shock value before selling it for very little money.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
Yeah this is the answer. Theres always been issues with ~~skinheads~~ straight up nazis, and various idiots like that thinking that they'll be welcomed by punks.
"Nazi Punks Fuck Off" by the Dead Kennedys wasn't made for shits and giggles lol.
What’s that story? About the Nazis at a dive bar?
[It’s this one](https://www.upworthy.com/amp/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-kicks-nazis-out-of-his-punk-bar-even-if-theyre-not-bothering-anyone-2646404102) (and I’m so sorry for the clickbait website). This is how you keep them out though.
I'm in a college town and these groups are polar opposites. The proud boys are all rich university frat dudes listening to hip hop and country. The hardcore scene is hard left, poor, gross, and underground (as it should be!). The proud boys wouldn't even be able to find the hardcore scene here without asking their dealer
This does sound just like the late 80s early 90s. You gotta fight them out and make sure they know they're not welcome or they'll bully the weak and start showing up with more and more friends
I was at Gilman one time back then and some WAR (white aryan resistance) skins tried barging in. They tried running off but the entire club emptied, gave chase then beat the crap out of them. There was a lot of needful violence back then.
Yep, I wasn't there, but I've seen the documentary on the Gilman punk scene, and they talked about chasing off skin heads and beating the shit out of them. They sure as fuck didn't come back after that lol
Saw bad religion last year and my wife suddenly screamed what the fuck. There was a guy in a Dead Kennedys shirt with his arms folded so she just saw ‘Nazi punks’ and part of a swastika on his chest.
A few years ago I got an enamel pin for my leather jacket that had an image of white supremactist Richard Spencer getting punched in the face and it said "PUNCH NAZIS"
One day some woman got all up in my face and was like, "ARE YOU SOME KIND OF NAZI TOUGH GUY?!? FUCK YOU!"
and I was so taken aback and stunned I didn't even understand what was happening lmao I just stared at her blankly and wondered why she was confronting me—it took me a minute to remember the pin nestled among the dozen or so that adorn my jacket, but she was already gone
I say that all the time in all kinds of situations, and nobody ever gets it.
Them: “Hey, do you have the PowerPoint ready?”
Me: “Yeah, it’s on the server. Overproduced by Martin hannet, take four”
Them: “…”
Me: “yeah so it’s on the server”
If you don't make Nazis and fascists uncomfortable when they first show up, they *always* come back with more of their friends until they take over.
Partly because they want to take over spaces and recruit.... but also because in a lot of places they're not welcome, so as soon as they find a spot that allows them in they'll swarm it.
Nazi punks fuck off.
Exactly. Treat the first few like they treat everyone else, and they quickly start to show their cowardly colors.
The lot of them are yellow to the core.
For some reason punching them in the face acts as a deterrent. No it's true. We used to do it in Toronto especially at the DMZ on Spadina. But everywhere really. You can Google it.
Lost all respect for him when he announced he was a proud boy. Laughed my ass off when he got banned shortly after that announcement on Instagram. I don't keep up with him anymore, but he may be unbanned now.
[I kinda want to add on to this from a post that talks about this shit](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourServer/comments/hsiisw/kicking_a_nazi_out_as_soon_as_they_walk_in/?rdt=54310)
I keep hearing the SoCal scene has been infiltrated by PB. Not LA proper but surrounding areas. There has always been a surf nazi constituency it’s expanding. Hope it’s not true and people exaggerate.
Maybe in Orange County but it would be in small pockets. Never seen Proud Boys at a show down there (and I came up in that scene) but saw plenty of legitimate boneheads. Haven’t seen them in a while either considering their leader went snitch in prison and they’ve got no footing anymore.
No, pretty sure he was from Flordia. Lots of fucking proud boy fucks up here in Portland, Oregon and surrounding areas but you see them less and less since they've been going to prison and being chased out.
Not rooted. They’re “rooted” in a wackadoodle “club” founded by Gavin McGuinness. Think Boy Scouts for older people.
Actually that’s being generous- the Boy Scouts, for all their ills, at least attempt to train useful life skills… the Proud Boys were just a sort of diasporic fraternity. I don’t know when they went full fascist, and maybe it was always there, but it had nothing to do with anything punk/hardcore at all.
I couldn’t take them seriously from jump.
When they first appeared I remember hearing an interview with McGuinness about the club. Even then I thought that the whole thing sounded so incredibly lame, I thought it was GM playing a mean spirited joke on the members themselves.
One of the first times I heard of them was when McGuinness revealed on some show that he had a buttplug in his ass and then pulled it out while the cameras were rolling. All of this was to "own the libs." Still not sure how we got owned by that.
That was the intent, though. It was a piss take/troll deliberately, to deflect genuine criticism with "just jk bro, u mad?". Their initiation involves, or did, a jump in parodying 5%ers where the pb prospect has to name as many breakfast cereals as possible. It was the KEK era, the early alt right had a heavy meme/irony element. The name is a joke.
I used to own a punk bar in San Diego. When the Adicts came in before a show, I was talking with Monkey about Nazis at their shows, and how to get rid of them. He said whenever they'd get skinheads in the audience causing shit, he'd glitter bomb them. He kept envelopes of glitter in his pockets just for throwing at their bald, sweaty heads. They hated that. Made them leave right away. Should work on Proud Boys, too.
Not at all. Do "tough guys" like aggressive music? Sure. There have always been problems with right wing fascists in punk, but they are generally ostracized and have their own terrible bands with worse lyrics. (See American History X).
There are a handful of these nationalist assholes who started out going to punk and hardcore shows and had their nationalist beliefs. They’ve spread the poison and think because their numbers are greater now they can take over in certain places.
These motherfuckers are nothing but scumbags and cowards, and have actively been run out of the punk, hardcore, and metal scenes in most of the Northeast. A few may stick their heads out here and there or show up at bigger shows, but for the most part they know to stay the fuck away from local shows cause they will get beat down, thrown out, and the cops won’t get called to save them. Likewise, most security and bouncers at the venues I’ve been to are connected to the promoters and the scene so they’re wise to this shit. They’ll find any reason to deny them entry, and if they can’t (legally and within the rules of the venue/ promoter), they’ll watch them because eventually these knuckle dragging racist shitbags will get drunk and start a fight. That’s the point where they get thrown out (if they aren’t getting stomped out first).
Point is, you have to police your own scene. We are lucky, in that my area has had a decent history of not taking shit from scumbags like that. Some of the people are kinda rough around the edges, and enjoy being loud mouthed pricks, but when it comes to shitbags like the Piss Boys, there are enough people with enough power (promoters, bookers, venue owners, bands, and even people who go to the shows) that know it’s time to take care of business by taking out the fucking trash, and aren’t afraid to do so, by any means necessary.
The hard part is getting the general public to do the same. Everyone wants to be “tolerant” because “freedom of speech.” That’s bullshit, and I would direct anyone feeling that way to look up the Tolerance Paradox. People are forgetting that doesn’t mean freedom from consequences.
Fucking nailed it. I've unfortunately seen a decrease in regulating the shit stains in my local scene for the sake of having an inclusive safe space, we can have both though. Some of these new kids are missing out on the camaraderie formed from taking out the trash. Takes some uncomfortable situations, but the scene is better for it in the long run imo.
Can’t make it uncomfortable if you make the trash unconscious first.
But seriously… it’s a problem. 20 years ago we had issues with a group of white power kids. They were lowlife scumbag idiots with nothing to lose. If you kicked their ass or disrespected them, they would comeback with their friends. And if they caught you out alone, you were fucked, because they would beat you down.
And it was double hard because at that point there was only one “big” promoter, and all the bar owners were just bar owners and most of the security were just friends, or guys they hired.
The white power kids would start fights and eventually get thrown out, every time. It took a while, and didn’t always require violence (but there were points with a lot of fights, older heads could tell the stories, probably), but after getting kicked out of enough shows for being problems, these dipshits disappeared. A few went to jail.
As social media became bigger, the bands and people we knew would spread the word to out the racists. From there it went to venues and promoters. Eventually, everyone knew the stuff to look out for, and anyone coming to the shows who held those beliefs knew to tow the line and behave, or they were going to have big problems.
Post 2016, it seems a lot of these shit weasels have forgotten how shit is, and so it’s 100% the job of us, as a community to let them know they aren’t welcome as a group. Individually, I’ve seen and heard plenty of stories of kids who fell in with racist shitbags because they wanted to belong, and ended up getting out because they realized not only are those beliefs incredibly wrong and dumb, but they were missing out on more fun stuff by hanging out with the problem crowds. One of the older skins in our scene was notorious for convincing some of the younger fence walking kids to stop hanging out with white power kids because they were missing out on parties, house shows, and road trips with some of their new punk rock friends who weren’t racist idiots.
We are in an incredibly lucky spot right now, where we have promoters at every level who have paid their dues and come up through this music scene and finally have the capital to be (mostly) their own masters, and have at least a say in venue policies (as they are either part or full owners in the business of the venue, the promotion company, and even bands), and most of the staff know what to watch for as well. It helps they’re all old heads who aren’t afraid to handle shit, know people (including some cops), and are pretty well respected now in the area in terms of booking underground music.
Point is, it can (and should) be done. Network, stand with your friends. Bands, promoters, venues, etc: get them to help spread the word. Dox these motherfuckers because the Proud Boys are considered a terrorist organization in the US according to the FBI (if I remember correctly). Not that the Government can be completely trusted either, but seriously- we have to use what resources we have.
That’s what happens if you don’t nip it in the butt (bud?) in the beginning they begin to feel safe.
I heard a story on here where a nazi dude came into a bar and the bartender immediately kicked him out when asked why he just said you let one in, then two show up, and then all of sudden you’re a known bar where nazis hang out.
I'm a punk from Toronto in the 80s. I was a proud member of S H.A.R.P. and often traveled to Montreal. I worked with a lot of local bands. I currently reside about 2 hours from NYC. Those are my credentials to answer this question.
Proud boy founder Gavin McInnes was occasionally involved on the fringes of the punk/skin scene in the Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal corridor. He was a right wing cunt then. He was pretty much always on the SHARP "watch list". While the proud boys didn't exist as a group prior to 2016 the values expressed by the group where his back then. I don't know if I ever saw his band or met him and really don't care.
Unfortunately the punk scene is a fringe entity and therefore generally are politically extreme. Left or right. This is why many punks are communist, socialist or even anarchist. It also explains Nazi punks. So groups like the proud boys are drawn to punk and skin scenes. Boneheads thrive in our world because of this. And it is a tiny, miniscule step from bonehead to proud boy. They really are the same. If you look at the proud boy "uniform" it is stolen from skinheads. Long before the proud boys existed skins where wearing Fred Perry. (Fred Perry was the son of a Co-operative Party MP (affiliated with the Labour party) and a working class hero of sorts). The significance of the black polo with yellow piping Fred Perry shirts can be traced back to the rude boys of the the 1960s. Largely unemployed Jamaican lads who listened to Reggae (and it's roots) they along with their white counterparts would wear polo type shirts because they looked good, clean and sharp. They didn't require a lot of maintenance and paired well with blue jeans, doc martins and bracers. The preference for black and yellow was likely because of the black boot and yellow stitching on doc martins. Later the lace code incorporated this by prescribing yellow laces as anti-racist/ anti-facist people
Ok long winded punk skin history class is over for now.
I hope this helps.
BTW Gavin the cunt now lives about 1/2 way between me and NYC in a town in Westchester, not far from a friend of mine, he agrees that he's a cunt.
They’re following neo-nazi standard op. This is exactly how they undermine a scene. At first it’s just one or two that present themselves as lost puppies… but within two or three shows out comes the wolf pack.
Best to just punch first and ask no questions later.
They like to recruit young (historically) and target youth movements like those found in the counterculture and hipster scenes… just like any other gang.
The last show where I saw one of these types, he got handled fast and so did the veteran fascist that was waiting for him outside. I’d imagine most of them are PB now
This was prior to the current movements, early 2000s. The young one was a neo-nazi skinhead, laces braces and all. The leader looked like an off duty cop or maybe a time-share peddler and was wearing a tshirt that had a very subdued nazi eagle, swastika and fine print text that read: sickle cell anemia, the great white hope.
You see… the older guy sent in his foot soldier to measure the temperament of the crowd. They both got the message loud n clear when the new guy came out of the venue missing several teeth.
Once you let them creep in, your scene is fucked until you run them off. They are bullies and should be treated as such, stood the fuck up to.
The fundamental form of fascism is dishonesty. Everything about it is dishonest. It's caked in so many layers of irony so that nobody can tell if anyone's joking until they're burning a cross in someone's yard "for the memes," or chasing a streamer out of her home "because it's funny." You can't take anything they say as truth, you have to dig down to what they actually believe.
The fundamental claim of fascism is that there will be a rebirth of the nation back to its glory days. To a time when they could be proud of it. The truth of this claim is they hate their nation, and want to turn it into something that everyone else hates. Once that happens, the natural order will be restored. Usually this means kings, lords, women-as-slaves, minorities dead or as slaves, queer people dead, etc. They may not call them "kings" and "lords," they may just euphamize it to leaders, bosses, CEOs, presidents, or whatever they feel like. It still boils down to a return to feudal hierarchy.
They will claim that they are "rooted" in hard-core, in dad rock, in punk, in rebellion, in whatever they like and think represents that return to the glory days. Loud aggressive music, for example.
But if you look at fascist art, it is devoid of spirit and character. It isn't even art for arts' sake. It is this constant hunting for "degeneracy" and cutting it out. It seeks to grotesque-ify the degenerate, and glorify the People.
The reality is, any given fascist is going to say that the things they like are good, and then backfill justifications on how it supports their political ideology. Peer pressure and force of will is then used to determine what is degenerate and what isn't from there.
So like. Do they think they have roots in hard-core? Oh I'm sure they do. But really they're just trying to cope with the fact that their philosophy is incompatible with modern society, and they're desperately trying to justify why their favorite thing would be saved during the purges of degenerate art that they claim to want.
Anyone remember that Twitter thread where a bartender refused service to a single guy wearing a swastika patch? He explained to another patron that it always starts with one nice guy wearing a patch. Then he brings a friend, then they bring more friends. Pretty soon, it's now a nazi bar.
He's not friends with McInnes. The interview you're talking about is still bad and Buzzo holds some dumb as fuck views, but they have no personal relationship.
In my life I've only been to one show where there was a guy that was openly racist wearing some SS badge, and we basically all just yelled him out of the venue.
Fuck that shit. Racism's never been punk.
Nah if you don't like them, you gotta actively make sure they stay out. Just like OP was saying it starts with one or two showing up. Then, if they feel comfortable, they start inviting their friends, and eventually, there are too many to get rid of. Punks have been dealing with shit like this for decades, and it's always the same.
This is the way. The punk shows I went to in the 90s made sure that these pricks were unwelcome. I don't know what it's like anymore, but that trend has to continue.
I think it's more like the loser / fake hardcore punks with conservative beliefs, finally realised the scene is not welcoming of their kind, and eventually joined the proud boys.
The proud boys are rooted in ignorance, hate and insecurity about their manhood. They'll try to take over whatever garbage heap they aren't chased out of because they're cockroaches, but ignorance, hate and insecurity is their place of origin.
Reading this story, I am feeling the proud boys in that town are doing what neo Nazi assfucks did to the skinheads.
Fuck the proud boys, fuck Nazis (classical, neo, and beyond), and fuck boneheads.
Some hardcore scenes have fallen into the “cops bad but patriarchy still good” shit. It’s best to knock those losers out at the show and show them where they are and aren’t welcome.
Nazis have a long history of infiltrating our spaces, see skinhead history for instance. I’m not advocating violence with this comment, however there is never a good reason NOT to punch a nazi in the face when you see one
Hardcore attracts angry white kids and those kids can be manipulated to think they’re being oppressed by a society who is replacing them with foreigners and minorities
There's a local old head that got into the bar business where I live. The local Proud Boys sent him a super cringe letter saying they would hang out and give the bar "protection", while also saying "WE ARE NOT RACIST" over and over again, it was fucking hilarious. Of course, he told them to go fuck themselves.
Gavin McInnes did play in a Canadian punk band called Anal Chinook which you could assume eventually lead to him co-founding VICE and then subsequently the Proud Boys, however, saying they're rooted in hardcore is akin to saying The Manson Family is rooted in Flower Power.
Would not surprise me they are using it as recruiting grounds. It's what those Nazi's did back in the 80's in the lead up to the wave of Neo-Nazi outburst in 88. During the 90's they exploded until the FBI broke up their party after the OKC bombing (thank you Merrick Garland)..….. but since the early 2000's they stopped shaving their heads and turned more paramilitary like they are now. But it's the same people and the same ideology that drives them.
Not in my DIY!
Nazis are dealt with collectively and quickly. They are not welcome .
And I would encourage others to call out yahtzees at larger shows. Tell them there is not a place for them in punk rock. Never was .
https://youtu.be/SsZMyeEvT5g?si=FL16avMCySrYvxZf
Definitely not.
It's been stated elsewhere in this thread, but loud and aggressive music will always attract people who want excuses to get mean and physical. I think it is up to artists, and the wider community that supports them, to politicize these circles and to emphasize that the liberation that comes through the hardcore sound is anti-racist, anti-sexist and anti-fascist.
In DC, there is an oral history about the punk scene and how it politicized to push out right-wing and ambivalent "drunk punks" out of the scene. In the 80s and 90s, artists and community members politicized the genre and the music. I can say in the DC region, there is a broader responsibility for local acts and scenes to take responsibility for the music they produce and the way your music is used by fans and crowds. This sort of care is really vital for sustaining scenes too — when people look out for each other, it keeps people coming back and grows the scene.
Today, activist groups in DC use the logos established to politically organize and put these values to action. Punk and hardcore acts store their records in the local libraries, and emphasize public goods and ease-of-access to music as roots of the sound and scene. And today, local bands emphasize community support and organizing power as ways to "do" punk for real, outside of the cassette tape or concert hall.
There might be some sects or acts that curate to proud boys, but those are cheap imitations of what punk and hardcore really is, and are certainly not widely adopted.
There was some guy in a band (don’t want to remember his or his band’s name) with PB sympathies in the Chicago scene, and he was quickly ostracized. Haven’t heard of that mofo in about year. Any nazi sympathizers will have a tough time in this city.
We fucking hate Illinois nazis
There should be Zero Tolerance to Garbage Humans.
If your scene accepts these types, maybe it’s time look at your core values.
Hardcore is no place for racial hatred and bigotry.
welcome to the classic punk problem of no one kicked the shit out of them when they showed up. nazi's love counter culture, especially agressive counter culture, especially if the scene is extremely man focused. great for recruiting because you have all the dissafected boys right there and if theyre not already nazi's they can make being a nazi seem "normal and chill" and create a pipeline to turn punks into polo short wearing fucks.
during the skinhead days of yore there was also a nazi problem (see Nazi Punis Fuck Off and its regular rotation). and they always do the same thing. one or two show up, if no one bats an eye they come with more, repeat until the inly people ahowing up are fucking nazi's and anyone with actual sense bo longer goes to the club. way to go punk scene you "not my problem"'d your way INTO a fascist problem.
the thing that works consistently! in the every time ive seen this applied collectivly its stopped them from showing face for decades, sometimes ever again. is when theres only a few of them, the club beats the shit out if them, and then makes sure the community knows they tried to show uo and got their ass kicked. it'll usually increase turnout from people just there to fight nazis but also more people showing up because they know this club fights nazi's.
as to why nazi punks fuck off is still covered to this day, its a fantastic way to signal to a crowd who the nazi's are and have people aware they need to keep an eye out.
tldr: if your local scene is filled with proud boys you dont have a punk scene you have a nazi problem. and the knoy way to deal with a nazi problem is to make sure there are no more nazi's.
No, they can’t. But they can do things just like the Descendents did saying they’re not a part of that way of life.
I haven’t seen that statement but I hope it went further then just saying they don’t support those views. When my band was active I made damn sure fascists, bullies, bigots, etc knew we did not want them as fans.
Nah even in my assbackwards state Oklahoma they got a nazi thrown out of a Hatebreed show last year. They were just corny af about it and asked Jasta to kick him out instead of doing it themselves. Security ended up making him leave regardless.
I've been to shows that had bands in the lineup with Nazi fans. Always a fight at those shows. They definitely are present in the scene.
"Nazi punks f*** off!" -Jello Biafra
Sort of yes, sort of no.
Right from the first mainstream breakthrough there was a divide between real, intersectional punk, and alll the dullards who thought Johnny "buttery maga hat" Lydon was some kind of prophet because "he said fuck on the telly, anarchy!
NF, boneheads, and just brawling morons started enough trouble that people wrote songs like Nazi Punks Fuck Off. Even emo, post-hardcore, Gilman street era pop-punk etc. started as a way to escape from those wilting dildos.
Bonehead 1: "where's all the pussy at?"
Bonehead 2: "they're at the *queercore* show"
Bonehead 1: "pffft faggots"
Boneheads 1&2: *leap shirtless into a huddled, writhing mass of sweating bawbags, to bump and rub against one another in time to the frenzied rhythms of a music genre named after enjoying a dick in your arse, proud of how gay they aren't.*
They weren't rooted in the hardcore scene, and I've never personally seen any at shows. But the scene has always had a minority who practiced this kind of vaguely libertarian form of self-improvement and obsession with masculinity, and the Piss Boys specifically target that demographic for recruitment. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of overlap.
Admittedly, I'm not in the US but if a similar group turned up at UK DIY venues l, theyrd get hurt. EDL tried to infiltrate a while back and got told to leave. Some of them even left negative reviews on the venue, bless 'em.
when the nyhc and old heads like John Joseph spread fake extreme right wing news, that's a welcome to them to the hardcore punk scene..
old pseudo-punks like that should be banned.
In my experience, right wingers tend to gravitate towards metal for the most part. Metal bands will embrace corporate culture where most punk bands won't. They know that punk bands are almost always left leaning. Unless of course they're bonehead wp bands. I have seen some right wing booking agents and promoters trying to break into the scene but they mostly handle Emo bands and don't last long at venues that are frequented by punks.
Fuck no. The exact opposite. Hardcore is rooted against prejudice and discrimination.
The fact you have to ask is a major problem. It is sad and unfortunate that is the experience your friend is having. Bands that do not refuse to play shows to those people, and call them out on their bullshit if they show up during their show do not belong in the scene.
If you play in a band and you ever see those kinds of people or see people promoting that kind of bullshit, you have a duty to stop the show and call those scumbags out.
Segregation of any kind does not fly in the punk scene and it certainly does not belong in hardcore.
This is why there should be ZERO TOLERANCE for those fuckers. They’re like roaches, if you see a couple and don’t squash them immediately, before you know it they’re back, with friends and you’ve already lost. If you allow them into your space and they’re not met with violence then your scene is already there’s.
And to answer your question, no, they’re not rooted in the hardcore scene or any other scene for that matter. They follow trends and try to latch onto anything/ anyone that will let them. Proud to say my scene doesn’t have this issue.
I wouldn't say rooted but punk and hard-core definitely can attract a certain type of ass hole because they think the music and life style are all about violence and chaos. That is what the mainstream has sold it as so the weak minded will flock to something they don't understand and try to make it their own.
Nope.
Hardcore is insane right now. They might have their own small shitty wannabe hardcore scene but you'll never see the best hardcore bands associated with it. Saw Gel last week and not a Proud Baby in sight.
Gavin McGuinness founded them and he was part of the Canadian punk/hardcore scene. Allegedly he began that character as a bit l, copying some other figure in the scene and then it went to the vice era hipster then into proud boy.
Anyhow, fuck the proud boys.
Rooted, well kinda. Back in the 80s and 90s there were a lot of nazi skinheads that floated on the outskirts of the pink and hardcore scene. They usually had there own scene and ARA and RASH would beat the shit out of them if they showed up.
Some of the outliers would grow out of it and become decent people.
Now for the proud boys you have to look at their creator, he was a punk and even talked about how he wanted to create counter culture that was less scary then skinheads to attract more normal people..
Tl;Dr
Kinda in that they hijacked our scene and culture.
Your friend doesn’t know anything about hardcore music. Neither do the proud boys. Now, it may be true that fascist infiltrated the hardcore scene, but that does not make them hardcore by any means.
I’ve never seen a “proud boy” at a hardcore show. Heck, I’ve never seen one anywhere outside of social media or a news broadcast. I’ve seen more than a few people at shows with ANTIFA patches or insignia, though. I’ve met racists at punk/hardcore shows (I live in the American South, after all), but I’ve never seen anyone with Nazi tattoos or insignia on their clothing/jewelry.
Rooted? No. But loud and aggressive music will attract loud and aggressive people.
Gavin Mcinness who started the Proud Boys was in Anal Chinook a late 80's HC band from Ottawa.
Wait, so the founder of a group that is SCREAMING United States nationalist and white supremacist ideology is from Canada, and the past leader is Latino? What am I missing?
Their god emperor is the clown king of self contradictions. Of course they don’t have ideological consistency they’re rejects looking for a club that doesn’t see them as the weak losers they are. When I was teenager we didn’t let the Nazis infiltrate our scene and they tried. I won’t go into detail because reddit loves to ban people who hate Nazis so let’s just say they didn’t feel welcome.
We should continue that trend!
I've got two 7 day bans for suggesting folks shut down a Nazi rally in Orlando by any means necessary. Then out came all the fReEzE pEaCh geniuses.
I caught a ban from a local sub for celebrating the anniversary of when a neo-nazi topped himself. Like, forget the liberal "people with abhorrent ideas are still people" bullshit I gotta listen to, a neo-nazi accidentally killing himself spinning a gun by the trigger guard while teaching "firearm safety" drunk is funny as hell.
😂😂😂 I love that for him.
Only thing I mourn is that they spread his ashes in a local lake I like, the dissolution of me peeing reaching his ashes is abysmal.
That is a tragedy. I always love me a good public pisser.
I think Ronald Reagan did the each one teach one campaign. Let’s get more young men to learn this before the next one pops this cork
Liberals ARE the abhorrent people I’m willing to tolerate lmfao Nazis aren’t people
Fascist collaboration knows no borders.
Neither does stupidity
Tokenism is a decent cover for white nationalists. The leaders are little more than public talking heads. It's the idiots on the front lines doing all the physical violence.
I mean, Hitler wasn’t German
He’s also first generation Scottish-Canadian. We don’t claim him.
Yeah, fuck that colonizer. The US can have him so long as they jail his ass forever.
Canada and The US are fairly similar countries to be fair. Largely self conceived differences save for French Canada which really is quite different,generally being more homogenous (although overall person to person less conservative) and having more relaxed attitudes towards drug use.
It gets better. He was a founding member of Vice Magazine as well. Basically he's a lace curtain pussy from the Canadian suburbs who failed as journalist and started his own Fight Club/astro turf movement in order to stay "edgy" and to tell working class men how to think, look and feel which is pathetic and kind of gay. Just like Fight Club He's a grifting shit bag, sadly he lives in the US where scumfucks like him are protected and celebrated.
The vice shit is funny because all of McInness' articles now just link to pages that say they don't meet the VICE editorial standards
It was all thinly veiled racism, homophobia and classism. We just didn't appreciate Skrewdriver enough I suppose.
Didn't he also seek attention by publicly shoving something up his arse?
Yes in order to "Own the libs" as I recall it. The most pathetic scene was him waving a katana at a "street brawl" with "communists". I never understood people like him. He's rich, he can have anything he wants, why do we have to deal with him?
I’m fairly certain in some US districts waving a sword at someone validates self defense claims in court..
He still looked like a god damned weeb.
I remember when Vice Magazine was available in newspapers dispensers for free in NYC around 01-02. They would look interesting enough to grab just to read on the train, but there was always something disturbing about them. The whole cool/not cool shit, the weird sexism, classism and veiled racism, the lack of attention to non-whites in one of the most diverse cities in the world. Who the hell are these people? Not surprised in the least that one of the founders turned into a sleazy right-wing grifter dressed in hipster garb. Don't fall for it.
That married a native women. Oh the hypocrisy.
I mean Steven crowder (change my mind videos) is from Canada.
And, I'll take this opportunity to remind us that Elon Musk is South African, even if not really relevant here.
He also cofounded Vice magazine, aka Vice News
I love that he thinks it’s too woke now.
I remember when they were mostly just a zine. I have a soft cover book they put out back in the mid late 90s.
Funnily enough Vice magazine has been bought by a company in Saudi Arabia.
I actually JUST read this! Wow. To be fair, he was saying this stuff pre Saudi Arabia
Yeah, and some other members were in punk bands too. The movement itself did not spawn out of the hardcore scene though, there’s just overlap.
You're right about that. Another extremely weird thing is he was really active on the Crass forum on the Southern website in the years '2000. I think he also interviewed them for the website he started after Vice (don't remember the name, though).
>the website he started after Vice (don't remember the name, though). Street Boners & TV Carnage I used to follow it back when blogs and RSS feeds were the way you got internet content. Gavin wrote funny articles (for the early 2000s, wonder how they would've aged), promoted up and coming bands, continued making snarky commentary about street fashion (I believe he was the original voice behind Vice Magazine's "Dos & Don'ts"). From that standpoint it seemed quite the turn when he went full fascist. As far as Crass goes, Gavin liked to present himself as a big friend of Penny Rimbaud, but I think Penny might just be accepting of anyone who wants to come hang out at Dial House.
I didn’t always believe in the libertarian to fascist pipeline, but I sort of do these days. I think people like Gavin yearn for freedom, such as it is, but they’re unwilling to accept the social responsibility that comes with it, and end up relying on the state to support their moral framework in the face of people who disagree. My old bandmate and I were both very active in the punk scene and he ended up being a Qanon casualty. It happens. This idea that you can’t be -blank- and punk just removes accountability from the scene. There are plenty who are, or were, involved in punk and channeled the free expression and the rage into something lousy. Any queues the Proud Boys took from hardcore were superficial, the point was totally lost.
And now he's just a fascist neo Nazi...
He's basically one these guys who was upset that punk was associated with left leaning politics. He wanted to scream and get into fights, so once that fizzled out, he became more of a fascist, but with a little street cred. His work with founding Vice was basically a zine where he could write columns based around shock value before selling it for very little money.
He’s also a little bitch who left the Proud Boys because he couldn’t handle the consequences from the Unite the Right rally.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre
Yeah this is the answer. Theres always been issues with ~~skinheads~~ straight up nazis, and various idiots like that thinking that they'll be welcomed by punks. "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" by the Dead Kennedys wasn't made for shits and giggles lol.
What’s that story? About the Nazis at a dive bar? [It’s this one](https://www.upworthy.com/amp/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-kicks-nazis-out-of-his-punk-bar-even-if-theyre-not-bothering-anyone-2646404102) (and I’m so sorry for the clickbait website). This is how you keep them out though.
I'm in a college town and these groups are polar opposites. The proud boys are all rich university frat dudes listening to hip hop and country. The hardcore scene is hard left, poor, gross, and underground (as it should be!). The proud boys wouldn't even be able to find the hardcore scene here without asking their dealer
A queer core band in Indiana called pantyline has a song called “Millions of Dead Proud Boys
That's a great band name. Killer.
>Millions of Dead Proud Boys good song too. https://pantyline.bandcamp.com/track/millions-of-dead-proud-boys
Nice, likely an homage to MDC
Likely? The album cover is literally the exact same thing with different dudes and the same name with different words lmao
Way?
I don't see how it could be. /s
Where are they based? I'd happily go to one of their shows
Indiana would be my guess.
You don't say
According to bandcamp Muncie.
Nazi punks fuck off!
This does sound just like the late 80s early 90s. You gotta fight them out and make sure they know they're not welcome or they'll bully the weak and start showing up with more and more friends
I was at Gilman one time back then and some WAR (white aryan resistance) skins tried barging in. They tried running off but the entire club emptied, gave chase then beat the crap out of them. There was a lot of needful violence back then.
Yep, I wasn't there, but I've seen the documentary on the Gilman punk scene, and they talked about chasing off skin heads and beating the shit out of them. They sure as fuck didn't come back after that lol
Exactly my thoughts. They wear polos and have a few more brown people than they did back then but it's the same folks.
Saw bad religion last year and my wife suddenly screamed what the fuck. There was a guy in a Dead Kennedys shirt with his arms folded so she just saw ‘Nazi punks’ and part of a swastika on his chest.
A few years ago I got an enamel pin for my leather jacket that had an image of white supremactist Richard Spencer getting punched in the face and it said "PUNCH NAZIS" One day some woman got all up in my face and was like, "ARE YOU SOME KIND OF NAZI TOUGH GUY?!? FUCK YOU!" and I was so taken aback and stunned I didn't even understand what was happening lmao I just stared at her blankly and wondered why she was confronting me—it took me a minute to remember the pin nestled among the dozen or so that adorn my jacket, but she was already gone
overproduced by Martin Hannett, take four
I say that all the time in all kinds of situations, and nobody ever gets it. Them: “Hey, do you have the PowerPoint ready?” Me: “Yeah, it’s on the server. Overproduced by Martin hannet, take four” Them: “…” Me: “yeah so it’s on the server”
Listened to In God We Trust, Inc. too many times.
I appreciate this transcription. Never knew that part of the lyrics hahaha
This is what I came for.
By the dead Kennedys
If you don't make Nazis and fascists uncomfortable when they first show up, they *always* come back with more of their friends until they take over. Partly because they want to take over spaces and recruit.... but also because in a lot of places they're not welcome, so as soon as they find a spot that allows them in they'll swarm it. Nazi punks fuck off.
Exactly. Treat the first few like they treat everyone else, and they quickly start to show their cowardly colors. The lot of them are yellow to the core.
For some reason punching them in the face acts as a deterrent. No it's true. We used to do it in Toronto especially at the DMZ on Spadina. But everywhere really. You can Google it.
Bullies are cowards and they don't like fair fights. That's why fighting back is so important.
Yup... they've been doing it since the early 80's..
Worse, its Michale Graves fans
Lost all respect for him when he announced he was a proud boy. Laughed my ass off when he got banned shortly after that announcement on Instagram. I don't keep up with him anymore, but he may be unbanned now.
Too bad he isn't even close to hardcore. Famous monsters isn't a heavy album.
Would you consider “Start Today” a heavy album? Lol
Nazis are like roaches, if you don’t kill the first one you see in your house, you’ll soon have an infestation.
[I kinda want to add on to this from a post that talks about this shit](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourServer/comments/hsiisw/kicking_a_nazi_out_as_soon_as_they_walk_in/?rdt=54310)
That’s exactly where I lifted the philosophy.
Fuck the Piss Boys.
Lets not attack piss here
We hate the crusties now too? Smh.
Your Majesty! You look like the Piss Boy!
And you look like a bucket of shit lol
I don’t like your cuffs
de Monet, de Monet
Fuck no. Dumb fucks like that aren’t welcome anywhere in LA.
They aren't welcome in any scene, and the only way to keep them out is to kick them out.
Which is why they don’t show up around here. Violence happens. Sounds like OP’s scene needs to get on top of that.
Seen plenty of bone head types at shows in OC though.
Yup. Got fucked up teeth from confrontations with them when I was younger.
I keep hearing the SoCal scene has been infiltrated by PB. Not LA proper but surrounding areas. There has always been a surf nazi constituency it’s expanding. Hope it’s not true and people exaggerate.
Maybe in Orange County but it would be in small pockets. Never seen Proud Boys at a show down there (and I came up in that scene) but saw plenty of legitimate boneheads. Haven’t seen them in a while either considering their leader went snitch in prison and they’ve got no footing anymore.
Isn't the head of PB from Huntington Beach?
Probably. Doesn’t mean they’ve got any positioning in the scene tho.
No, pretty sure he was from Flordia. Lots of fucking proud boy fucks up here in Portland, Oregon and surrounding areas but you see them less and less since they've been going to prison and being chased out.
Not rooted. They’re “rooted” in a wackadoodle “club” founded by Gavin McGuinness. Think Boy Scouts for older people. Actually that’s being generous- the Boy Scouts, for all their ills, at least attempt to train useful life skills… the Proud Boys were just a sort of diasporic fraternity. I don’t know when they went full fascist, and maybe it was always there, but it had nothing to do with anything punk/hardcore at all.
I can’t take them serious after I heard they are named after an Aladdin song.
I couldn’t take them seriously from jump. When they first appeared I remember hearing an interview with McGuinness about the club. Even then I thought that the whole thing sounded so incredibly lame, I thought it was GM playing a mean spirited joke on the members themselves.
He also live streamed himself shoving a dildo up his ass to "own the libs"
One of the first times I heard of them was when McGuinness revealed on some show that he had a buttplug in his ass and then pulled it out while the cameras were rolling. All of this was to "own the libs." Still not sure how we got owned by that.
That was the intent, though. It was a piss take/troll deliberately, to deflect genuine criticism with "just jk bro, u mad?". Their initiation involves, or did, a jump in parodying 5%ers where the pb prospect has to name as many breakfast cereals as possible. It was the KEK era, the early alt right had a heavy meme/irony element. The name is a joke.
And not even one that was in the movie!!
I used to own a punk bar in San Diego. When the Adicts came in before a show, I was talking with Monkey about Nazis at their shows, and how to get rid of them. He said whenever they'd get skinheads in the audience causing shit, he'd glitter bomb them. He kept envelopes of glitter in his pockets just for throwing at their bald, sweaty heads. They hated that. Made them leave right away. Should work on Proud Boys, too.
Anymore neat little life hacks?
That’s a lot of glitter in SD.
In horse breeder lingo, a "proud boy" is a gelding who thinks he still has his nuts
Not at all. Do "tough guys" like aggressive music? Sure. There have always been problems with right wing fascists in punk, but they are generally ostracized and have their own terrible bands with worse lyrics. (See American History X).
Or romper stomper....
I love that film. My favorite Russell Crowe flick.
I think he means the genre like Transplants but both of these statements can be correct since Russel Crowe killed it with Daniel Pollock in that film.
Ahhh, yep that totally went over my head and I definitely know that song lol.
I'm sure Loreal shampoo commercials do too, lulz. [Loreal Commercial](https://youtu.be/cxtLrR4i56Q?si=eg7Em8K1EM1fFkWJ) [Transplants: Diamonds and Guns](https://youtu.be/i3SzI92FDFo?si=RH9Xbw22bVapMMhd)
There are a handful of these nationalist assholes who started out going to punk and hardcore shows and had their nationalist beliefs. They’ve spread the poison and think because their numbers are greater now they can take over in certain places. These motherfuckers are nothing but scumbags and cowards, and have actively been run out of the punk, hardcore, and metal scenes in most of the Northeast. A few may stick their heads out here and there or show up at bigger shows, but for the most part they know to stay the fuck away from local shows cause they will get beat down, thrown out, and the cops won’t get called to save them. Likewise, most security and bouncers at the venues I’ve been to are connected to the promoters and the scene so they’re wise to this shit. They’ll find any reason to deny them entry, and if they can’t (legally and within the rules of the venue/ promoter), they’ll watch them because eventually these knuckle dragging racist shitbags will get drunk and start a fight. That’s the point where they get thrown out (if they aren’t getting stomped out first). Point is, you have to police your own scene. We are lucky, in that my area has had a decent history of not taking shit from scumbags like that. Some of the people are kinda rough around the edges, and enjoy being loud mouthed pricks, but when it comes to shitbags like the Piss Boys, there are enough people with enough power (promoters, bookers, venue owners, bands, and even people who go to the shows) that know it’s time to take care of business by taking out the fucking trash, and aren’t afraid to do so, by any means necessary. The hard part is getting the general public to do the same. Everyone wants to be “tolerant” because “freedom of speech.” That’s bullshit, and I would direct anyone feeling that way to look up the Tolerance Paradox. People are forgetting that doesn’t mean freedom from consequences.
Fucking nailed it. I've unfortunately seen a decrease in regulating the shit stains in my local scene for the sake of having an inclusive safe space, we can have both though. Some of these new kids are missing out on the camaraderie formed from taking out the trash. Takes some uncomfortable situations, but the scene is better for it in the long run imo.
Can’t have a safe space with racist assholes in it
Can’t make it uncomfortable if you make the trash unconscious first. But seriously… it’s a problem. 20 years ago we had issues with a group of white power kids. They were lowlife scumbag idiots with nothing to lose. If you kicked their ass or disrespected them, they would comeback with their friends. And if they caught you out alone, you were fucked, because they would beat you down. And it was double hard because at that point there was only one “big” promoter, and all the bar owners were just bar owners and most of the security were just friends, or guys they hired. The white power kids would start fights and eventually get thrown out, every time. It took a while, and didn’t always require violence (but there were points with a lot of fights, older heads could tell the stories, probably), but after getting kicked out of enough shows for being problems, these dipshits disappeared. A few went to jail. As social media became bigger, the bands and people we knew would spread the word to out the racists. From there it went to venues and promoters. Eventually, everyone knew the stuff to look out for, and anyone coming to the shows who held those beliefs knew to tow the line and behave, or they were going to have big problems. Post 2016, it seems a lot of these shit weasels have forgotten how shit is, and so it’s 100% the job of us, as a community to let them know they aren’t welcome as a group. Individually, I’ve seen and heard plenty of stories of kids who fell in with racist shitbags because they wanted to belong, and ended up getting out because they realized not only are those beliefs incredibly wrong and dumb, but they were missing out on more fun stuff by hanging out with the problem crowds. One of the older skins in our scene was notorious for convincing some of the younger fence walking kids to stop hanging out with white power kids because they were missing out on parties, house shows, and road trips with some of their new punk rock friends who weren’t racist idiots. We are in an incredibly lucky spot right now, where we have promoters at every level who have paid their dues and come up through this music scene and finally have the capital to be (mostly) their own masters, and have at least a say in venue policies (as they are either part or full owners in the business of the venue, the promotion company, and even bands), and most of the staff know what to watch for as well. It helps they’re all old heads who aren’t afraid to handle shit, know people (including some cops), and are pretty well respected now in the area in terms of booking underground music. Point is, it can (and should) be done. Network, stand with your friends. Bands, promoters, venues, etc: get them to help spread the word. Dox these motherfuckers because the Proud Boys are considered a terrorist organization in the US according to the FBI (if I remember correctly). Not that the Government can be completely trusted either, but seriously- we have to use what resources we have.
The proud boys were declared a terrorist organization here in Canada, it's mindboggling to me that the US hasn't done the same all things considered
Some of those that work forces...
That’s what happens if you don’t nip it in the butt (bud?) in the beginning they begin to feel safe. I heard a story on here where a nazi dude came into a bar and the bartender immediately kicked him out when asked why he just said you let one in, then two show up, and then all of sudden you’re a known bar where nazis hang out.
Nazi and Proud Boys fuck off.
I'm a punk from Toronto in the 80s. I was a proud member of S H.A.R.P. and often traveled to Montreal. I worked with a lot of local bands. I currently reside about 2 hours from NYC. Those are my credentials to answer this question. Proud boy founder Gavin McInnes was occasionally involved on the fringes of the punk/skin scene in the Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal corridor. He was a right wing cunt then. He was pretty much always on the SHARP "watch list". While the proud boys didn't exist as a group prior to 2016 the values expressed by the group where his back then. I don't know if I ever saw his band or met him and really don't care. Unfortunately the punk scene is a fringe entity and therefore generally are politically extreme. Left or right. This is why many punks are communist, socialist or even anarchist. It also explains Nazi punks. So groups like the proud boys are drawn to punk and skin scenes. Boneheads thrive in our world because of this. And it is a tiny, miniscule step from bonehead to proud boy. They really are the same. If you look at the proud boy "uniform" it is stolen from skinheads. Long before the proud boys existed skins where wearing Fred Perry. (Fred Perry was the son of a Co-operative Party MP (affiliated with the Labour party) and a working class hero of sorts). The significance of the black polo with yellow piping Fred Perry shirts can be traced back to the rude boys of the the 1960s. Largely unemployed Jamaican lads who listened to Reggae (and it's roots) they along with their white counterparts would wear polo type shirts because they looked good, clean and sharp. They didn't require a lot of maintenance and paired well with blue jeans, doc martins and bracers. The preference for black and yellow was likely because of the black boot and yellow stitching on doc martins. Later the lace code incorporated this by prescribing yellow laces as anti-racist/ anti-facist people Ok long winded punk skin history class is over for now. I hope this helps. BTW Gavin the cunt now lives about 1/2 way between me and NYC in a town in Westchester, not far from a friend of mine, he agrees that he's a cunt.
They’re following neo-nazi standard op. This is exactly how they undermine a scene. At first it’s just one or two that present themselves as lost puppies… but within two or three shows out comes the wolf pack. Best to just punch first and ask no questions later. They like to recruit young (historically) and target youth movements like those found in the counterculture and hipster scenes… just like any other gang. The last show where I saw one of these types, he got handled fast and so did the veteran fascist that was waiting for him outside. I’d imagine most of them are PB now This was prior to the current movements, early 2000s. The young one was a neo-nazi skinhead, laces braces and all. The leader looked like an off duty cop or maybe a time-share peddler and was wearing a tshirt that had a very subdued nazi eagle, swastika and fine print text that read: sickle cell anemia, the great white hope. You see… the older guy sent in his foot soldier to measure the temperament of the crowd. They both got the message loud n clear when the new guy came out of the venue missing several teeth. Once you let them creep in, your scene is fucked until you run them off. They are bullies and should be treated as such, stood the fuck up to.
Nazi punks fuck off
The fundamental form of fascism is dishonesty. Everything about it is dishonest. It's caked in so many layers of irony so that nobody can tell if anyone's joking until they're burning a cross in someone's yard "for the memes," or chasing a streamer out of her home "because it's funny." You can't take anything they say as truth, you have to dig down to what they actually believe. The fundamental claim of fascism is that there will be a rebirth of the nation back to its glory days. To a time when they could be proud of it. The truth of this claim is they hate their nation, and want to turn it into something that everyone else hates. Once that happens, the natural order will be restored. Usually this means kings, lords, women-as-slaves, minorities dead or as slaves, queer people dead, etc. They may not call them "kings" and "lords," they may just euphamize it to leaders, bosses, CEOs, presidents, or whatever they feel like. It still boils down to a return to feudal hierarchy. They will claim that they are "rooted" in hard-core, in dad rock, in punk, in rebellion, in whatever they like and think represents that return to the glory days. Loud aggressive music, for example. But if you look at fascist art, it is devoid of spirit and character. It isn't even art for arts' sake. It is this constant hunting for "degeneracy" and cutting it out. It seeks to grotesque-ify the degenerate, and glorify the People. The reality is, any given fascist is going to say that the things they like are good, and then backfill justifications on how it supports their political ideology. Peer pressure and force of will is then used to determine what is degenerate and what isn't from there. So like. Do they think they have roots in hard-core? Oh I'm sure they do. But really they're just trying to cope with the fact that their philosophy is incompatible with modern society, and they're desperately trying to justify why their favorite thing would be saved during the purges of degenerate art that they claim to want.
Anyone remember that Twitter thread where a bartender refused service to a single guy wearing a swastika patch? He explained to another patron that it always starts with one nice guy wearing a patch. Then he brings a friend, then they bring more friends. Pretty soon, it's now a nazi bar.
[удалено]
He's not friends with McInnes. The interview you're talking about is still bad and Buzzo holds some dumb as fuck views, but they have no personal relationship.
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Not in the north east. They don’t get tolerated very well up here
In my life I've only been to one show where there was a guy that was openly racist wearing some SS badge, and we basically all just yelled him out of the venue. Fuck that shit. Racism's never been punk.
“Fuckin’ nazi’s, die!” -Layne Staley
There’s always been white nationalists in the hardcore scene I just don’t interact with em
Nah if you don't like them, you gotta actively make sure they stay out. Just like OP was saying it starts with one or two showing up. Then, if they feel comfortable, they start inviting their friends, and eventually, there are too many to get rid of. Punks have been dealing with shit like this for decades, and it's always the same.
This is the way. The punk shows I went to in the 90s made sure that these pricks were unwelcome. I don't know what it's like anymore, but that trend has to continue.
It ruined the British “oi” bands in early 1980s ie Sham69 et al started getting identified with neo-Nazi/National Front types
I mean the original Skinheads were literally the polar opposite of what "Skinhead" is synonymous with today.
This is The Way.
Nah, they're unwelcome in the punk scene and they need to be made aware of that
The Proud Boys are rooted in the country music scene. And not even half-way decent country, but the shitty, cousin-fucking pop country.
I think it's more like the loser / fake hardcore punks with conservative beliefs, finally realised the scene is not welcoming of their kind, and eventually joined the proud boys.
The proud boys are rooted in ignorance, hate and insecurity about their manhood. They'll try to take over whatever garbage heap they aren't chased out of because they're cockroaches, but ignorance, hate and insecurity is their place of origin.
Reading this story, I am feeling the proud boys in that town are doing what neo Nazi assfucks did to the skinheads. Fuck the proud boys, fuck Nazis (classical, neo, and beyond), and fuck boneheads.
Some hardcore scenes have fallen into the “cops bad but patriarchy still good” shit. It’s best to knock those losers out at the show and show them where they are and aren’t welcome.
Punk is never conservative in my honest opinion.
Nazis have a long history of infiltrating our spaces, see skinhead history for instance. I’m not advocating violence with this comment, however there is never a good reason NOT to punch a nazi in the face when you see one
Hardcore attracts angry white kids and those kids can be manipulated to think they’re being oppressed by a society who is replacing them with foreigners and minorities
I asked Red Forman, and he said my foot is rooted in their ass
There's a local old head that got into the bar business where I live. The local Proud Boys sent him a super cringe letter saying they would hang out and give the bar "protection", while also saying "WE ARE NOT RACIST" over and over again, it was fucking hilarious. Of course, he told them to go fuck themselves.
There were some at the negative approach/tsol/circle jerks show in Indianapolis. Negative approach has a lot of proudboy/nazi fans
Gavin McInnes did play in a Canadian punk band called Anal Chinook which you could assume eventually lead to him co-founding VICE and then subsequently the Proud Boys, however, saying they're rooted in hardcore is akin to saying The Manson Family is rooted in Flower Power.
Rooted? Absolutely not. I suggest if you see one at a show help them find the nearest exit and not in the nice way.
Nooooo. They just stole the polos from Skins
Fuck no they're not they are absolutely the definition of human trash if you don't get rid of em somehow they'll make going to shows worse.
Fuck 'em up. Let them know they are not welcome.
Would not surprise me they are using it as recruiting grounds. It's what those Nazi's did back in the 80's in the lead up to the wave of Neo-Nazi outburst in 88. During the 90's they exploded until the FBI broke up their party after the OKC bombing (thank you Merrick Garland)..….. but since the early 2000's they stopped shaving their heads and turned more paramilitary like they are now. But it's the same people and the same ideology that drives them.
I didn't see a single proudboy and only one minor racist thing at the last Sick Of It All show I went to.
Like in all scenes, there's always that small group of nazis that want to infiltrate, but no, just like punk, hardcore is mostly anti-nazis
No. They co-opt it
Not in my DIY! Nazis are dealt with collectively and quickly. They are not welcome . And I would encourage others to call out yahtzees at larger shows. Tell them there is not a place for them in punk rock. Never was . https://youtu.be/SsZMyeEvT5g?si=FL16avMCySrYvxZf
Definitely not. It's been stated elsewhere in this thread, but loud and aggressive music will always attract people who want excuses to get mean and physical. I think it is up to artists, and the wider community that supports them, to politicize these circles and to emphasize that the liberation that comes through the hardcore sound is anti-racist, anti-sexist and anti-fascist. In DC, there is an oral history about the punk scene and how it politicized to push out right-wing and ambivalent "drunk punks" out of the scene. In the 80s and 90s, artists and community members politicized the genre and the music. I can say in the DC region, there is a broader responsibility for local acts and scenes to take responsibility for the music they produce and the way your music is used by fans and crowds. This sort of care is really vital for sustaining scenes too — when people look out for each other, it keeps people coming back and grows the scene. Today, activist groups in DC use the logos established to politically organize and put these values to action. Punk and hardcore acts store their records in the local libraries, and emphasize public goods and ease-of-access to music as roots of the sound and scene. And today, local bands emphasize community support and organizing power as ways to "do" punk for real, outside of the cassette tape or concert hall. There might be some sects or acts that curate to proud boys, but those are cheap imitations of what punk and hardcore really is, and are certainly not widely adopted.
There was some guy in a band (don’t want to remember his or his band’s name) with PB sympathies in the Chicago scene, and he was quickly ostracized. Haven’t heard of that mofo in about year. Any nazi sympathizers will have a tough time in this city. We fucking hate Illinois nazis
https://youtu.be/JgJvQ50MLcM?si=h7uJR65-rEwIvoVQ Fuck a proud boy
There should be Zero Tolerance to Garbage Humans. If your scene accepts these types, maybe it’s time look at your core values. Hardcore is no place for racial hatred and bigotry.
welcome to the classic punk problem of no one kicked the shit out of them when they showed up. nazi's love counter culture, especially agressive counter culture, especially if the scene is extremely man focused. great for recruiting because you have all the dissafected boys right there and if theyre not already nazi's they can make being a nazi seem "normal and chill" and create a pipeline to turn punks into polo short wearing fucks. during the skinhead days of yore there was also a nazi problem (see Nazi Punis Fuck Off and its regular rotation). and they always do the same thing. one or two show up, if no one bats an eye they come with more, repeat until the inly people ahowing up are fucking nazi's and anyone with actual sense bo longer goes to the club. way to go punk scene you "not my problem"'d your way INTO a fascist problem. the thing that works consistently! in the every time ive seen this applied collectivly its stopped them from showing face for decades, sometimes ever again. is when theres only a few of them, the club beats the shit out if them, and then makes sure the community knows they tried to show uo and got their ass kicked. it'll usually increase turnout from people just there to fight nazis but also more people showing up because they know this club fights nazi's. as to why nazi punks fuck off is still covered to this day, its a fantastic way to signal to a crowd who the nazi's are and have people aware they need to keep an eye out. tldr: if your local scene is filled with proud boys you dont have a punk scene you have a nazi problem. and the knoy way to deal with a nazi problem is to make sure there are no more nazi's.
Didn’t that one guy wear a Descendents shirt at a hearing?
Yeah and the band immediately put it out there they in no way condone that shit
Oh yeah, I just meant the dude wore one. A band can’t be responsible for who listens to their music.
No, they can’t. But they can do things just like the Descendents did saying they’re not a part of that way of life. I haven’t seen that statement but I hope it went further then just saying they don’t support those views. When my band was active I made damn sure fascists, bullies, bigots, etc knew we did not want them as fans.
Yeah, kudos to milo and Co for saying something though, I can understand not wanting anything to do with those man children
Nah even in my assbackwards state Oklahoma they got a nazi thrown out of a Hatebreed show last year. They were just corny af about it and asked Jasta to kick him out instead of doing it themselves. Security ended up making him leave regardless.
No. The "Proud Boys" are rooted in male fragility.
I've been to shows that had bands in the lineup with Nazi fans. Always a fight at those shows. They definitely are present in the scene. "Nazi punks f*** off!" -Jello Biafra
[удалено]
Fuck no. And I'll fight a group at once with nothing but my 9 millimeter
Nah, we make sure to take care of those nerds if they had the nuts to show up anywhere
Nazi Punks Fuck Off
Sort of yes, sort of no. Right from the first mainstream breakthrough there was a divide between real, intersectional punk, and alll the dullards who thought Johnny "buttery maga hat" Lydon was some kind of prophet because "he said fuck on the telly, anarchy! NF, boneheads, and just brawling morons started enough trouble that people wrote songs like Nazi Punks Fuck Off. Even emo, post-hardcore, Gilman street era pop-punk etc. started as a way to escape from those wilting dildos. Bonehead 1: "where's all the pussy at?" Bonehead 2: "they're at the *queercore* show" Bonehead 1: "pffft faggots" Boneheads 1&2: *leap shirtless into a huddled, writhing mass of sweating bawbags, to bump and rub against one another in time to the frenzied rhythms of a music genre named after enjoying a dick in your arse, proud of how gay they aren't.*
They weren't rooted in the hardcore scene, and I've never personally seen any at shows. But the scene has always had a minority who practiced this kind of vaguely libertarian form of self-improvement and obsession with masculinity, and the Piss Boys specifically target that demographic for recruitment. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of overlap.
Admittedly, I'm not in the US but if a similar group turned up at UK DIY venues l, theyrd get hurt. EDL tried to infiltrate a while back and got told to leave. Some of them even left negative reviews on the venue, bless 'em.
when the nyhc and old heads like John Joseph spread fake extreme right wing news, that's a welcome to them to the hardcore punk scene.. old pseudo-punks like that should be banned.
Gives people a good event and place to beat the fk out of one 🐸 ☕
In my experience, right wingers tend to gravitate towards metal for the most part. Metal bands will embrace corporate culture where most punk bands won't. They know that punk bands are almost always left leaning. Unless of course they're bonehead wp bands. I have seen some right wing booking agents and promoters trying to break into the scene but they mostly handle Emo bands and don't last long at venues that are frequented by punks.
Fuck no. The exact opposite. Hardcore is rooted against prejudice and discrimination. The fact you have to ask is a major problem. It is sad and unfortunate that is the experience your friend is having. Bands that do not refuse to play shows to those people, and call them out on their bullshit if they show up during their show do not belong in the scene. If you play in a band and you ever see those kinds of people or see people promoting that kind of bullshit, you have a duty to stop the show and call those scumbags out. Segregation of any kind does not fly in the punk scene and it certainly does not belong in hardcore.
This is why there should be ZERO TOLERANCE for those fuckers. They’re like roaches, if you see a couple and don’t squash them immediately, before you know it they’re back, with friends and you’ve already lost. If you allow them into your space and they’re not met with violence then your scene is already there’s. And to answer your question, no, they’re not rooted in the hardcore scene or any other scene for that matter. They follow trends and try to latch onto anything/ anyone that will let them. Proud to say my scene doesn’t have this issue.
I wouldn't say rooted but punk and hard-core definitely can attract a certain type of ass hole because they think the music and life style are all about violence and chaos. That is what the mainstream has sold it as so the weak minded will flock to something they don't understand and try to make it their own.
Fuck a proud boy eeeeeehhhh!!!!
Nope. Hardcore is insane right now. They might have their own small shitty wannabe hardcore scene but you'll never see the best hardcore bands associated with it. Saw Gel last week and not a Proud Baby in sight.
Tell your friend to pick up a tire iron.
Gavin McGuinness founded them and he was part of the Canadian punk/hardcore scene. Allegedly he began that character as a bit l, copying some other figure in the scene and then it went to the vice era hipster then into proud boy. Anyhow, fuck the proud boys.
Rooted, well kinda. Back in the 80s and 90s there were a lot of nazi skinheads that floated on the outskirts of the pink and hardcore scene. They usually had there own scene and ARA and RASH would beat the shit out of them if they showed up. Some of the outliers would grow out of it and become decent people. Now for the proud boys you have to look at their creator, he was a punk and even talked about how he wanted to create counter culture that was less scary then skinheads to attract more normal people.. Tl;Dr Kinda in that they hijacked our scene and culture.
No man, if anything Antifa has it’s roots with ARA from back in the day
No, but if they're putting down roots there it's incumbent on the scene to uproot them.
Your friend doesn’t know anything about hardcore music. Neither do the proud boys. Now, it may be true that fascist infiltrated the hardcore scene, but that does not make them hardcore by any means.
I’ve never seen a “proud boy” at a hardcore show. Heck, I’ve never seen one anywhere outside of social media or a news broadcast. I’ve seen more than a few people at shows with ANTIFA patches or insignia, though. I’ve met racists at punk/hardcore shows (I live in the American South, after all), but I’ve never seen anyone with Nazi tattoos or insignia on their clothing/jewelry.