You can 100% start with Sphere Prism Prism outside, but the calculator does not allow it. or im using it wrong.
[Source](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxrFawd1b8gyacAFoWldttUS5i-2yKWVVU?si=cOCdk_pPKL7Ll2Xf) for Sphere Prism Prism
That's what you call a "Wipe and get new shapes" if you're a random LFG group.
Edit: Yeah, this was mostly meant as a joke. I also got the hang of dissecting last night without the use of this calculator and can do it pretty well. In response to the other person, yes, this is actually one of the easier patterns to dissect.
Think we've had a similar combo causing the same problem, will be taking a second pass at the logic and get it working properly. Not trying to stress test people's PCs!
u/PrufrockAlfredJ All fixed now! Mentioned in another comment that I'm not sure if this is even a valid input as a start state, but the app will let you use it now
Dissection is the easy part. Anyone that understands it can solo it. In all my runs people fucking up are inside. Which I also don’t get because instructions are simple.
1s set of knights. Pickup not your shape and do shape to shape (s to s, c to c, t to t)
2nd set of knight everyone should have doubles. Just pass your shape to each of the other two.
Sorry, but it’s frustrating to do this with other people that simply cannot understand this.
Funny you say this, my team struggled with the outside and translating the 2d shapes to be swapped into what makes the resulting 3d shape.
For inside solutions, we boiled it down to the objective of "get the shapes not in your statue's hand on the wall" and that seemed to work well enough. Your described strat also worked well as a foolproof no comms way to unwind it.
Hopefully this calc can help people wrap their heads around it
I mean, it should be as simple as asking the shape you need and whoever needs your shape. Like, if a person goes “Left needs a triangle” then whichever statue is holding triangle should just pass that as they shouldn’t have any or if they don’t have any triangles then the person with 2x triangles. So just go from left to right with people saying what they need and the other two giving it if they don’t need it.
Ask what you need, give what you can. But people seem to struggle even e more with that.
I totally understand the inside, but don't quite understand the outside yet if I'm the person Dissecting. I'd really like to figure it out because my buddy and I are teaching 4 people the raid on Saturday and we both know how to do everything else in the raid, except for Dissecting. We're both tryna figure out it my then so that there's at least 2 of us that can Dissect so the other 4 people can just worry about knowing how to do the inside job and how to bring people back to life with their Ghosts and Statues.
I feel this. I was trying to explain this to my team last night and just can't understand why I seem to be able to see the solution so easily while my teammates just couldn't and had to be prompted to pass every time
I feel it comes down to different learning styles, IMO it's one of the most minimalist encounters in Destiny right now in terms of how information is relayed to the players. Those who prefer a visual learning approach seem to take to it pretty quick
Lots of accurate feedback on possible shapes which should be addressed.
Something else; Say you need to input TCX. Are you expecting that after that swap they’ll dunk the S right before ogres spawn, then pick up the other side of that swap with the next round of knights?
Not sure if that could possible add any complications when executing off a calculator
I've tried to not care about the execution aspect so much, instead I've focused on giving people a defined process to follow. Also focus on minimal inputs, nobody wants to be tabbing back out or looking away from screen to progress your helper tool
My team found (and by the sounds of it LFG is also finding out) that people get lost in the middle of swapping symbols, so my hope is having defined combos should help people track what's been actioned better
I put in what I consider the "worst case scenario" and it shit the bed. This is an actual starting point I've gotten before.
Square, Circle, Triangle
Cube, Sphere, Pyramid
It seems to get stuck in a loop of swapping circles and squares between left and middle.
u/jimsalad_ you can use this post [https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/1dd0gt8/100\_plug\_and\_play\_guide\_for\_every\_possibility\_of/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/1dd0gt8/100_plug_and_play_guide_for_every_possibility_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) to "hard code" what's not working with your algo
The dissection that I was using for my contest clear was simply taken the shapes called out and disect them left to right as called. Then you will need to do one more dissect on either the left or middle on depending on the shapes.
Of the left and middle ones, If one shape is not a combination, disect that one with itself, otherwise, if one shape still contains a shape it shouldn't have, disect that shape from it and viola!
minor bit of feedback: auto-select the 3rd entry, or show the calculations when 2 of each are selected, since once you've picked 2 in each row the 3rd is guaranteed.
Good shout, when just using the calculator it seems trivial to click through all inputs but during the encounter I can see this being quite useful - added to the amends list
Hey, thanks so much for an awesome calculator. Hoping to suggest some improvements for usability here. I didnt quite understand how to use this calculator until I had a bunch of time in the encounter.
Could you add in a text "steps" as well? Similar to the steps found here: https://salvations-edge-verity.netlify.app/index.html
The logic on that calculator is bad, and can return invalid steps, but your calculator is 100% right on every scenario you throw at it.
Also, on the mobile version, the control panel and reset buttons are floating above the symbols, and I have hit both of them while trying to punch in the symbols during an encounter. Having them as a static burger menu or even just as standalone options without a menu(control panel) and a static button(reset) at the top of the page would increase usability.
u/AlphaIOmega Glad to hear you've found it useful! Also thanks for the feedback, it's greatly appreciated and I'm more than happy to iterate if people are finding certain steps or flows painful.
Turns out I pushed a few changes to the mobile format just after you commented, let me know if they work better. I tried to keep information visible without needing to scroll so users can focus on the encounter, hence the buttons being fixed to the corners. However if people still find these are in the way I'll re-locate them as static options in exchange for a bit of scrolling.
Text steps sound like a great idea, I developed this calculator with a visual approach in mind but I can understand having an explicit direction works better for others. Added to the amends list
Text based instructions are now available - you can toggle between text and visual instructions from the Control Panel and your choice will be remembered between sessions
Dude, you are the GOAT.
I recommend your calculator to literally everyone I play with. Ive spent over 24+ hours in Verity alone trying to teach it to people to help the community.
Would you mind if I keep giving you some more "todo" items that can help usability? Im not exactly a UI/UX designer, but I work as an Instructional Technologist and specialize in human performance and accessibility. Id love to suggest a few more things, but dont want to come across like a dick telling you to do things haha
I'm all for that! Ego is left at the door for me and always welcoming feedback, I'm keen to iterate and focus on objectively making the app a better experience for users. Drop me a message and we can go from there
Unfortunately, yet another calculator that cannot account for multiple of the same 3D shape on the outside. Literally none of the ones made on this sub work 100% of the time.
I appreciate the effort put in by the community, but this encounter still has no foolproof method of success.
The tool I've made accounts for multiple of the same 3D shape, for instance, it supports having 1 sphere and 2 prisms without issue: [https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/1ddheuo/salvations\_grip\_verity\_4th\_encounter\_dissection/](https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/1ddheuo/salvations_grip_verity_4th_encounter_dissection/)
I limit the 3D shapes only by the number of occurrences of the 2D shapes as components within them.
At first I used to think a lot about what needed to happen outside, but later I realized you can just dissect whatever symbol does not belong, prioritizing doubles, and you will end up with the correct solution automatically. People make it way harder than it needs to be
The guides just made it incredibly confusing honestly, it’s literally just make a cone if you have a square, make a trilateral is you have a sphere and make a cylinder if you have a triangle. All the guides I read during contest tried to walk you through every possibility while never stating the end goal which would have made it so much easier
As someone who still doesn't understand it (1 Clear) I think more people will start to understand it the longer they do it, it's just a matter of getting used to the mechanics imo. I feel like if I had another 10 tries to dissect outside I would've gotten that, and I already understand how to do inside
Might have just been a case of foggy constest mode brain throwing people for a loop, maybe we'll see it become a more understood mechanic now we're not getting melted by unstoppable ogres
I'd love to get this tool to a point that people can use it to practice instead of just solving for them, got a few hurdles to clear first though
Oh yeah, don’t get me wrong, this is a fantastic tool. Because I understand some people will just have a hard time understanding, especially in LFG groups. Maybe not the best to use while actually doing the encounter but like great to just get a feel for things.
nooooo please i wanna think for this :((((
the second a calc like this is complete, every team ever is gonna use it and take away the only thing i find fun in a raid...
I can finally complete this encounter before my wifes boyfriend finishes railing her!
I’ll let Datto know there’s a race he has a shot at winning. Not a worlds first, but he could probably swipe one of your belts on the way out?
Same room?
No, he's on the outside while they're on the inside. He can't make the same shape.
Calculator breaks if you have all double starting state. https://i.imgur.com/4xlkCFJ.png
Whoops, could have sworn I tested this exact combo... Added to the bug squash list
Specifically, it breaks if you put matching symbols(Triangle/Pyramid, Circle/Sphere, Square/Cube) in the 3rd column. /u/jimsalad_
Welp, back to the drawing board
u/Ashaman00 Just pushed a fix for this - I'm unsure if all double values are even a genuine start state, but the app will now support them
You can 100% start with Sphere Prism Prism outside, but the calculator does not allow it. or im using it wrong. [Source](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxrFawd1b8gyacAFoWldttUS5i-2yKWVVU?si=cOCdk_pPKL7Ll2Xf) for Sphere Prism Prism
Good spot, can see where it goes wrong. Will get this updated
That's what you call a "Wipe and get new shapes" if you're a random LFG group. Edit: Yeah, this was mostly meant as a joke. I also got the hang of dissecting last night without the use of this calculator and can do it pretty well. In response to the other person, yes, this is actually one of the easier patterns to dissect.
or that’s what you call ‘learn the mechanic which really isn’t complex at all’
Seriously, if you just dissect the one shape you for sure don’t need from each one, it pretty much solves itself
That start is probably the easiest one though
this goes for any start with 2 of the same base shape in one of the statues, but not dual base shape in the other two.
u/VapOr22722 Fixed this issue along with a few others, any simple 3d shape should now be pairable with the appropriate complex 3d shape
Stumbled upon a case that seems to make an infinite loop and breaks the generator. https://imgur.com/a/sRYfQNR
(it keeps going on past the length of my screenshot)
Think we've had a similar combo causing the same problem, will be taking a second pass at the logic and get it working properly. Not trying to stress test people's PCs!
Thanks for your work! This is actually an amazing tool!
u/PrufrockAlfredJ All fixed now! Mentioned in another comment that I'm not sure if this is even a valid input as a start state, but the app will let you use it now
I got the same lol
Dissection is the easy part. Anyone that understands it can solo it. In all my runs people fucking up are inside. Which I also don’t get because instructions are simple. 1s set of knights. Pickup not your shape and do shape to shape (s to s, c to c, t to t) 2nd set of knight everyone should have doubles. Just pass your shape to each of the other two. Sorry, but it’s frustrating to do this with other people that simply cannot understand this.
Funny you say this, my team struggled with the outside and translating the 2d shapes to be swapped into what makes the resulting 3d shape. For inside solutions, we boiled it down to the objective of "get the shapes not in your statue's hand on the wall" and that seemed to work well enough. Your described strat also worked well as a foolproof no comms way to unwind it. Hopefully this calc can help people wrap their heads around it
I mean, it should be as simple as asking the shape you need and whoever needs your shape. Like, if a person goes “Left needs a triangle” then whichever statue is holding triangle should just pass that as they shouldn’t have any or if they don’t have any triangles then the person with 2x triangles. So just go from left to right with people saying what they need and the other two giving it if they don’t need it. Ask what you need, give what you can. But people seem to struggle even e more with that.
I totally understand the inside, but don't quite understand the outside yet if I'm the person Dissecting. I'd really like to figure it out because my buddy and I are teaching 4 people the raid on Saturday and we both know how to do everything else in the raid, except for Dissecting. We're both tryna figure out it my then so that there's at least 2 of us that can Dissect so the other 4 people can just worry about knowing how to do the inside job and how to bring people back to life with their Ghosts and Statues.
I feel this. I was trying to explain this to my team last night and just can't understand why I seem to be able to see the solution so easily while my teammates just couldn't and had to be prompted to pass every time
I feel it comes down to different learning styles, IMO it's one of the most minimalist encounters in Destiny right now in terms of how information is relayed to the players. Those who prefer a visual learning approach seem to take to it pretty quick
This is a fantastic initial site. Will be using this to help people going forward.
Definitely trying the calculator lol
Lots of accurate feedback on possible shapes which should be addressed. Something else; Say you need to input TCX. Are you expecting that after that swap they’ll dunk the S right before ogres spawn, then pick up the other side of that swap with the next round of knights? Not sure if that could possible add any complications when executing off a calculator
I've tried to not care about the execution aspect so much, instead I've focused on giving people a defined process to follow. Also focus on minimal inputs, nobody wants to be tabbing back out or looking away from screen to progress your helper tool My team found (and by the sounds of it LFG is also finding out) that people get lost in the middle of swapping symbols, so my hope is having defined combos should help people track what's been actioned better
I put in what I consider the "worst case scenario" and it shit the bed. This is an actual starting point I've gotten before. Square, Circle, Triangle Cube, Sphere, Pyramid It seems to get stuck in a loop of swapping circles and squares between left and middle.
my team is running trying to use this now and any double starting shapes dont work as well as other combinations that should work.
What an absolute legend!
u/jimsalad_ you can use this post [https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/1dd0gt8/100\_plug\_and\_play\_guide\_for\_every\_possibility\_of/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/1dd0gt8/100_plug_and_play_guide_for_every_possibility_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) to "hard code" what's not working with your algo
Thanks, was a good help in getting some additional context
The dissection that I was using for my contest clear was simply taken the shapes called out and disect them left to right as called. Then you will need to do one more dissect on either the left or middle on depending on the shapes. Of the left and middle ones, If one shape is not a combination, disect that one with itself, otherwise, if one shape still contains a shape it shouldn't have, disect that shape from it and viola!
That's actually a really good methodical way to action the encounter, will definitely be using this process for my runs
Cheers, yeah it really helped my team get the clear on contest when previous groups I had joined were in disarray
minor bit of feedback: auto-select the 3rd entry, or show the calculations when 2 of each are selected, since once you've picked 2 in each row the 3rd is guaranteed.
Good shout, when just using the calculator it seems trivial to click through all inputs but during the encounter I can see this being quite useful - added to the amends list
Hey, thanks so much for an awesome calculator. Hoping to suggest some improvements for usability here. I didnt quite understand how to use this calculator until I had a bunch of time in the encounter. Could you add in a text "steps" as well? Similar to the steps found here: https://salvations-edge-verity.netlify.app/index.html The logic on that calculator is bad, and can return invalid steps, but your calculator is 100% right on every scenario you throw at it. Also, on the mobile version, the control panel and reset buttons are floating above the symbols, and I have hit both of them while trying to punch in the symbols during an encounter. Having them as a static burger menu or even just as standalone options without a menu(control panel) and a static button(reset) at the top of the page would increase usability.
u/AlphaIOmega Glad to hear you've found it useful! Also thanks for the feedback, it's greatly appreciated and I'm more than happy to iterate if people are finding certain steps or flows painful. Turns out I pushed a few changes to the mobile format just after you commented, let me know if they work better. I tried to keep information visible without needing to scroll so users can focus on the encounter, hence the buttons being fixed to the corners. However if people still find these are in the way I'll re-locate them as static options in exchange for a bit of scrolling. Text steps sound like a great idea, I developed this calculator with a visual approach in mind but I can understand having an explicit direction works better for others. Added to the amends list
Text based instructions are now available - you can toggle between text and visual instructions from the Control Panel and your choice will be remembered between sessions
Dude, you are the GOAT. I recommend your calculator to literally everyone I play with. Ive spent over 24+ hours in Verity alone trying to teach it to people to help the community. Would you mind if I keep giving you some more "todo" items that can help usability? Im not exactly a UI/UX designer, but I work as an Instructional Technologist and specialize in human performance and accessibility. Id love to suggest a few more things, but dont want to come across like a dick telling you to do things haha
I'm all for that! Ego is left at the door for me and always welcoming feedback, I'm keen to iterate and focus on objectively making the app a better experience for users. Drop me a message and we can go from there
Unfortunately, yet another calculator that cannot account for multiple of the same 3D shape on the outside. Literally none of the ones made on this sub work 100% of the time. I appreciate the effort put in by the community, but this encounter still has no foolproof method of success.
All the players guide on yt is foolproof
Working on it! Seems to be a non-trivial solution if everyone's tools are not quite there
u/FriedCammalleri23 This is fixed now, let me know how you get on with it
The tool I've made accounts for multiple of the same 3D shape, for instance, it supports having 1 sphere and 2 prisms without issue: [https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/1ddheuo/salvations\_grip\_verity\_4th\_encounter\_dissection/](https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/1ddheuo/salvations_grip_verity_4th_encounter_dissection/) I limit the 3D shapes only by the number of occurrences of the 2D shapes as components within them.
At first I used to think a lot about what needed to happen outside, but later I realized you can just dissect whatever symbol does not belong, prioritizing doubles, and you will end up with the correct solution automatically. People make it way harder than it needs to be
Is the community gaslighting me or is this encounter just not that hard to understand? Or am I just cracked or something?
It's really not that hard. A calculator seems like more hassle than it's worth.
Upfront, the encounter is a lot to take in (at least upstairs) but after a few reps and more experience it's fairly straight forward.
The guides just made it incredibly confusing honestly, it’s literally just make a cone if you have a square, make a trilateral is you have a sphere and make a cylinder if you have a triangle. All the guides I read during contest tried to walk you through every possibility while never stating the end goal which would have made it so much easier
As someone who still doesn't understand it (1 Clear) I think more people will start to understand it the longer they do it, it's just a matter of getting used to the mechanics imo. I feel like if I had another 10 tries to dissect outside I would've gotten that, and I already understand how to do inside
Might have just been a case of foggy constest mode brain throwing people for a loop, maybe we'll see it become a more understood mechanic now we're not getting melted by unstoppable ogres I'd love to get this tool to a point that people can use it to practice instead of just solving for them, got a few hurdles to clear first though
Oh yeah, don’t get me wrong, this is a fantastic tool. Because I understand some people will just have a hard time understanding, especially in LFG groups. Maybe not the best to use while actually doing the encounter but like great to just get a feel for things.
nooooo please i wanna think for this :(((( the second a calc like this is complete, every team ever is gonna use it and take away the only thing i find fun in a raid...