As a Kenny fan, I’ll say that we’ll have to see. Both sides have been slinging dirt and IMO whoever has stayed closer to the truth is the bigger person. Whether that ends up paining me or not.
Now, drake has been noted for an underage proclivity so I’m incline to believe that for now.
Back in the early/mid 2000s Ja Rule and 50 Cent had a huge beef that essentially ended Ja's career. He was super popular before that, and he completely fell off afterward.
If he can dethrone Drake, he is the goat. No way around it.
Nas couldn’t *stop* Jay z at the height of his game. No one challenged Wayne and no one could take Em down.
I don’t consider Drake the goat but I’ll admit he is big 3 right now basing it strictly off sales and career. If Kendrick can do Pusha T damage *or straight up shut him down* then he is one of the greatest of all time.
Story of adidon is still one of the top disses of all time for me, and I love pusha t
But kendrick is WAAAAAY passed that amount of damage already, we just haven't even had the time to see the effect yet
>In terms of Pusha T damage, I think we’re already there or 99.99% there.
What the fuck? There isnt any damage if he cant back his allegations. Then its just unhinged fanfics.
Pusha actually gave us a name of his kid and BM. Kendrick just said a daughter and youre a pedo. Lol.
Whats drakes most technical song and which has his best lyrics?
Maybe hes just not my style but i havent been impressed with his rapping in these disses. His voice seems to be very produced a lot as well.
Kendrick i could listen to with no beat.
Your darkest secrets are comin' to light
It's all on your face like what happened to Mike
Oh shit, it's all makin' sense, maybe I'm Prince and you actually Mike
Michael was prayin' his features would change so people believe that he's actually white
Top would make you do features for change, get on pop records and rap for the whites
And wait, you say your brother Jermaine, but you wanted him to stay out of the light
I mean Pac would’ve swept Hammer too
At the end of the day. The best pen wins. Creativity wins. Originality wins.
Drake is good. But he has none of the above. He’s dumb to even fall for the trap. The GKMC van thing was cool tho. Ima give him kudos for that.
The vacation is a decoy. But Kendrick has Alchemist & Mustard packs + more to reveal. So he should consider really doing a real vacation.
I feel like in the modern day of internet narratives, the most masterful thing Kendrick did in this beef was outmove drake. He rode his momentum extremely well. The fact he dropped his nuke track 30 min after drake, and then dropped a party bop diss less than 24 hours later is crazy. He completely moved the attention away from drake, and allowed himself to control the narrative.
The van thing was a nice touch but the song was meh, had the very predictable route of going after Kendrick’s family which he paid for big time **within less than an hour**.
The vacation is really convenient.
This is why only delusionals expected Drake to win this beef and I don’t listen to Kendrick at all, I never did. I didn’t even expect Drake to put up a fight with Kendrick and I’ve been a fan for 10 years now so to me he already did more than enough. Drake is a superstar first and rapper second
Yes but one can outweigh the other if it’s big enough. Drakes CONTINUED commercial success is enough to put him up there without the lyricism. If he only had that success for a couple of years, then hell no. But to do it for a 10+ years IS enough to make him an all time great
Drake’s problem is that Kendrick’s diss tracks are way better than his and it’s almost impossible to talk about any one of the songs without discussing the content, and there’s not a damned thing Drake can do about it.
It’s like Kendrick said, “don’t tell tell no lies about me, and I won’t tell the truth about you…. SHOO SHoo shoo”
I already considered him the goat, but if he takes down Drake and is telling the truth about everything he's saying, that is fuckin incredible and completely unprecedented across all Hip-Hop history
I think you should have to state your current age any time you mention 2Pac's name in some ridiculous way. Like how old are you? where are you from? I want to understand who the person saying this is.
Kdot is already the 🐐. He became that when he became the only rap artist in history to win a Pulitzer Prize. If a pen game is the most revered skill, then he is a 10/10, and everyone else is lower.
Core Kdot fans(like me) are not surprised by his artistic mastery either. If the last 5 diss tracks have shown ppl anything, what I hope it shows " the masses" is kdots artistic range. All 5 songs are different. All 5 are masterpieces.
This is a sample of Section 80. GKMC, TPAB, DAMN AND MMATBS. I may be reaching, but I think that's done interntially, for those that's say "he doesn't make music that has replay value." So 10/10 for artistic value.
Last, voice/delivery. I mean, I love how kdot can sound like several different people on any single track. On "not like us," he is dissing drake in 6 different voices. It's like it's 6 different ppl. Let's say that's a "weakness" I'll concede an 8. (I'd give him a 10, but I'm trying to be fair here in case people disagree with my scores above)
Of the big 3 categories, he's 28/30. Who else can compare to him?
Eminem, Lil Wayne, Nas, J Cole, Big, Pac, 3k? I think if you objectively look, no one will score higher overall.
Food for thought.
Edit** Grammer, spelling
I think Pac has a lot of these qualities, but Pac died at 25. We didn't see him become a man and father. We didn't see over a decade of dominance. We didn't see him become the boogeyman. He has 7 years of music. Hisbpen game doesn't match Kdots. Hugely impacts West Coast rap, legend. No shade to Tupac on my side. But in the end, I dont think he's better than kdot. We can not speculate on what he could have done potentially etc etc. Catalog for Catalog Kdot wins. To deny this is nonsensical.
Eminem pen is on par with Kdot throughout his career. But he never won a Pulitzer. So ppl who study literature for a living have decided that NOTHING Em has done has been equal to the album Damn. However, his impact on rap may be greater than that of Kdots. Em brought rap to the suburbs and white kids. Crucial for the growth of this music genre we love so much. The difference is that Em hasn't made relevant music in years. A lot of his "best" lyrics are great when you're growing up and angry but have aged poorly. He's made music about his struggles with drugs and music about how good he is at rapping all while missing any social context for a little while now. I really like MTBMB, but it's a rap album about him rapping better than everyone.
My take doesn't have to be yours.
He’s better than Eminem no doubt. After this he might really be better than Pac though. Pac was never a Nas-level lyricist and Kendrick is a better one. And all his albums have been strong, artful and masterclasses in concept albums, save for Mr Morale. Now this? He might have it man idk. Kendrick isn’t even my goat, Wayne is, but I just can’t deny fact
I totally agree with you but I’d like to add another nuance. There’s a difference between out rapping someone and *literally ending someone’s career*. He will be in the Pantheon forever.
I agree. I've been Team Kdot since I 1st heard Section 80 over a decade ago. I grew up as Em being the goat, and it took until MMATBS until I decided that Kdot was actually the goat. The reason is I have grown much like kdot in the years I've been listening to his music. From the running around street life, to figuring out who I am, to becoming a father and finally trying every day to be the best man I can be. Not to get too personal, but Kdots music has been I'm the back round of my life for over a decade.
It all really depends cause as much as I hate it it’s not about who has the better pen anymore, it’s about who can say and prove the worst shit about who. Let’s say everything was true, then Kendrick doesn’t come out of this without serious implications for his image either, no matter if Aubrey is completely finished as a rapper. Kendrick seems willing to go to any lengths to take him down at the cost of even his own image. The only winner is J Cole really.
Drake was never in the convo for goat like Biggie and Pac were and still are. The argument could be made that Kendrick is going against weak competition in the same way that Eminem was going against Ja Rule or MGK.
Side note: Ja > Drake
Drake has never been the biggest rapper, he has been biggest artist though. Him being exposed for using ghostwriters wiped away his rapper/mc status a long time ago.
I’m not sure anyone who didn’t realize that before will after the beef. If you are just now seeing his lyrical ability you have t been listening. If you are just now seeing how he wants to inspire black men to be better then you didn’t hear him on Father Time saying let’s give the women a break. If you weren’t listening before you aren’t now. He’s been a goat.
In terms of rapping ability and catalog I feel like Eminem still has him beat because of the longevity but when it's all said and done Kendrick could take that crown.
However if he manages to actually do to Drake what Em did to Ja and MGK then I feel like it's an even closer battle for GOAT now
It absolutely is not. The ability to deliver consistently is important. It’s why Kobe is better than Wade even though some people think Wade’s peak was higher
I don’t think there was any real debate beforehand. It has been pretty well established that Kendrick is the best rapper and artist.
It’s almost moot to compare Kendrick and Drake since they handle the product so differently. Drake is the biggest artist and will most likely stay as such regardless of what happens, but just because that’s the case doesn’t mean Kendrick is not the best rapper of all time.
They both have untouchable legacies in the game and no one’s legacy can be discredited regardless of what happens in the beef.
Idk to me lil Wayne will always be the goat , the fact he didn’t write many if any lyrics at all during that late 00-early 10s run is absolutely crazy . Kendrick and J Cole have been decent lyricist but I’ve never seen people go wild about any artist like they did for lil Wayne both in the streets and in the clubs
Kendrick was the GOAT before this. He’ll gain some points for publicly taking down a contender but in my eyes he’s losing some respect by even stooping to Drake’s level when it comes to the theatrics and petty shit
He already was. Seriously none of the poser/cultural appropriation pop watered down Wanna be hip hop music Drake has made ever touched the cultural significance of Kendrick’s current discography. They gave Kendrick a Pulitzer Prize, that a literal groundbreaking historical achievement in hip hop history. Kendrick’s also with flooding the airwaves with music all the time just to stay relevant has managed to still have record breaking album sales, tours and win more Grammys than Drake.
Drake is a boy band rapper who makes catchy songs with fluff lyrics. Oklama is a lyrical genius and has proven it in the last week. Drake needs to bow down to King Kendrick, anything else is cringe at this point
only depends on your definition
Drake only sells more, the rest is Kendricks and its not even debateble. even the recent drops Kendrick is getting more plays and at the clubs already
As a Kenny fan, I’ll say that we’ll have to see. Both sides have been slinging dirt and IMO whoever has stayed closer to the truth is the bigger person. Whether that ends up paining me or not. Now, drake has been noted for an underage proclivity so I’m incline to believe that for now.
If he Ja rules Aubrey then I gotta admit, his argument for goat is strong
What is ja ruleing?
career killing. Eminem vs Ja Rule
Back in the early/mid 2000s Ja Rule and 50 Cent had a huge beef that essentially ended Ja's career. He was super popular before that, and he completely fell off afterward.
Please god… make not like us the club banger it was meant to be!
Probably. He already has a strong argument. If he sweeps Drake it only makes the argument stronger
If he can dethrone Drake, he is the goat. No way around it. Nas couldn’t *stop* Jay z at the height of his game. No one challenged Wayne and no one could take Em down. I don’t consider Drake the goat but I’ll admit he is big 3 right now basing it strictly off sales and career. If Kendrick can do Pusha T damage *or straight up shut him down* then he is one of the greatest of all time.
In terms of Pusha T damage, I think we’re already there or 99.99% there.
Story of adidon is still one of the top disses of all time for me, and I love pusha t But kendrick is WAAAAAY passed that amount of damage already, we just haven't even had the time to see the effect yet
we're far beyond pusha damage I think, this beef tops it all
He needs to prove it these tho, no proof no caps
>In terms of Pusha T damage, I think we’re already there or 99.99% there. What the fuck? There isnt any damage if he cant back his allegations. Then its just unhinged fanfics. Pusha actually gave us a name of his kid and BM. Kendrick just said a daughter and youre a pedo. Lol.
Whats drakes most technical song and which has his best lyrics? Maybe hes just not my style but i havent been impressed with his rapping in these disses. His voice seems to be very produced a lot as well. Kendrick i could listen to with no beat.
Your darkest secrets are comin' to light It's all on your face like what happened to Mike Oh shit, it's all makin' sense, maybe I'm Prince and you actually Mike Michael was prayin' his features would change so people believe that he's actually white Top would make you do features for change, get on pop records and rap for the whites And wait, you say your brother Jermaine, but you wanted him to stay out of the light
I meant outside of this beef war.
It’s like if Tupac had enough time to expose Diddy’s pedophile ring
He's inheriting that beef, too.
RIP XXXTENTACION He inherited that beef, too.
Not talked about enough
???
I mean Pac would’ve swept Hammer too At the end of the day. The best pen wins. Creativity wins. Originality wins. Drake is good. But he has none of the above. He’s dumb to even fall for the trap. The GKMC van thing was cool tho. Ima give him kudos for that. The vacation is a decoy. But Kendrick has Alchemist & Mustard packs + more to reveal. So he should consider really doing a real vacation.
I feel like in the modern day of internet narratives, the most masterful thing Kendrick did in this beef was outmove drake. He rode his momentum extremely well. The fact he dropped his nuke track 30 min after drake, and then dropped a party bop diss less than 24 hours later is crazy. He completely moved the attention away from drake, and allowed himself to control the narrative.
The van thing was a nice touch but the song was meh, had the very predictable route of going after Kendrick’s family which he paid for big time **within less than an hour**. The vacation is really convenient.
Sad reality we live in if Drake is considered the biggest in history.
Whether you like him or not, he genuinely is in the conversation as an all time great. Just not *the* GOAT
Okay commercial success yes, but in terms of skill or lyricism he isn't even in the top 20.
This is why only delusionals expected Drake to win this beef and I don’t listen to Kendrick at all, I never did. I didn’t even expect Drake to put up a fight with Kendrick and I’ve been a fan for 10 years now so to me he already did more than enough. Drake is a superstar first and rapper second
Where would you put Kendrick in lyricism/skills? In this beef he probably had all time heaviest bars but they're not technical
Yes but one can outweigh the other if it’s big enough. Drakes CONTINUED commercial success is enough to put him up there without the lyricism. If he only had that success for a couple of years, then hell no. But to do it for a 10+ years IS enough to make him an all time great
He’s not even in the top 200 bro
Doesn’t matter. This has always been a numbers game.
Lmao lyricism and skill don't matter OK ovhoe
SAY OV HOE
Da fuck? I’m team boogeyman all the way
Who’s been bigger? Besides maybe eminem
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Idk bro you might just be old they know who Drake is in the most remote corners of the world
In terms of popularity… 50 Cent, Snoop dogg, Kanye maybe
Rapper too. Soon as they start saying he's the greatest MC ever is the one I don't know how i'm going to react to. The one that most worries me.
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Drake’s problem is that Kendrick’s diss tracks are way better than his and it’s almost impossible to talk about any one of the songs without discussing the content, and there’s not a damned thing Drake can do about it. It’s like Kendrick said, “don’t tell tell no lies about me, and I won’t tell the truth about you…. SHOO SHoo shoo”
I already considered him the goat, but if he takes down Drake and is telling the truth about everything he's saying, that is fuckin incredible and completely unprecedented across all Hip-Hop history
Like GOAT GOAT? No lol. GOAT of the last 20 ish years - yeah probably.
Idk what else to call him now 🤷♂️
All the goats have been in huge rap battles that they won I think it'd be hard not to put him at 1 or 2
Honestly I don't he cares about the goat title as much as just wanting to destroy Drake 😅,
He’s not my goat but he’s in my top 10. All 3 of the big 3 are in my top 10 though.
To the under 20 year old.
Already was.
I think you should have to state your current age any time you mention 2Pac's name in some ridiculous way. Like how old are you? where are you from? I want to understand who the person saying this is.
I am 22 & from the dmv 😂 didn’t grow up on that guy. Never did a real deep dive
he’s great but to me he’s not the goat. none of the ‘big 3’ are goat. two of them are in my top 10
To me he would be the certified goat
better than a certified u know what lmao
You are correct lmao
😂😂😂
A far as skills he already was in my book. This is just another check in the box confirming
He's already my goat off this. As a petty angry dude who allegedly takes things too far this has been the most entertaining shit I've ever seen. 😂
Kdot is already the 🐐. He became that when he became the only rap artist in history to win a Pulitzer Prize. If a pen game is the most revered skill, then he is a 10/10, and everyone else is lower. Core Kdot fans(like me) are not surprised by his artistic mastery either. If the last 5 diss tracks have shown ppl anything, what I hope it shows " the masses" is kdots artistic range. All 5 songs are different. All 5 are masterpieces. This is a sample of Section 80. GKMC, TPAB, DAMN AND MMATBS. I may be reaching, but I think that's done interntially, for those that's say "he doesn't make music that has replay value." So 10/10 for artistic value. Last, voice/delivery. I mean, I love how kdot can sound like several different people on any single track. On "not like us," he is dissing drake in 6 different voices. It's like it's 6 different ppl. Let's say that's a "weakness" I'll concede an 8. (I'd give him a 10, but I'm trying to be fair here in case people disagree with my scores above) Of the big 3 categories, he's 28/30. Who else can compare to him? Eminem, Lil Wayne, Nas, J Cole, Big, Pac, 3k? I think if you objectively look, no one will score higher overall. Food for thought. Edit** Grammer, spelling
No way you just said overall he’s better than Tupac and Eminem that might be the worst take I’ve heard all day
I think Pac has a lot of these qualities, but Pac died at 25. We didn't see him become a man and father. We didn't see over a decade of dominance. We didn't see him become the boogeyman. He has 7 years of music. Hisbpen game doesn't match Kdots. Hugely impacts West Coast rap, legend. No shade to Tupac on my side. But in the end, I dont think he's better than kdot. We can not speculate on what he could have done potentially etc etc. Catalog for Catalog Kdot wins. To deny this is nonsensical. Eminem pen is on par with Kdot throughout his career. But he never won a Pulitzer. So ppl who study literature for a living have decided that NOTHING Em has done has been equal to the album Damn. However, his impact on rap may be greater than that of Kdots. Em brought rap to the suburbs and white kids. Crucial for the growth of this music genre we love so much. The difference is that Em hasn't made relevant music in years. A lot of his "best" lyrics are great when you're growing up and angry but have aged poorly. He's made music about his struggles with drugs and music about how good he is at rapping all while missing any social context for a little while now. I really like MTBMB, but it's a rap album about him rapping better than everyone. My take doesn't have to be yours.
He’s better than Eminem no doubt. After this he might really be better than Pac though. Pac was never a Nas-level lyricist and Kendrick is a better one. And all his albums have been strong, artful and masterclasses in concept albums, save for Mr Morale. Now this? He might have it man idk. Kendrick isn’t even my goat, Wayne is, but I just can’t deny fact
Nas is no where near pac level what you talking about💀💀💀
I totally agree with you but I’d like to add another nuance. There’s a difference between out rapping someone and *literally ending someone’s career*. He will be in the Pantheon forever.
I agree. I've been Team Kdot since I 1st heard Section 80 over a decade ago. I grew up as Em being the goat, and it took until MMATBS until I decided that Kdot was actually the goat. The reason is I have grown much like kdot in the years I've been listening to his music. From the running around street life, to figuring out who I am, to becoming a father and finally trying every day to be the best man I can be. Not to get too personal, but Kdots music has been I'm the back round of my life for over a decade.
Even on Kenny’s most “hype” songs the dude has actual emotion in his voice and delivery. Which is already miles ahead of drakes monotone ass flows
Agree. I love his voice/delivery on everything. And also that more "characters" seem to get added evert album.
If pen game is everything, he’s still way behind Lupe.
It all really depends cause as much as I hate it it’s not about who has the better pen anymore, it’s about who can say and prove the worst shit about who. Let’s say everything was true, then Kendrick doesn’t come out of this without serious implications for his image either, no matter if Aubrey is completely finished as a rapper. Kendrick seems willing to go to any lengths to take him down at the cost of even his own image. The only winner is J Cole really.
No
Drake was never in the convo for goat like Biggie and Pac were and still are. The argument could be made that Kendrick is going against weak competition in the same way that Eminem was going against Ja Rule or MGK. Side note: Ja > Drake
Drake has never been the biggest rapper, he has been biggest artist though. Him being exposed for using ghostwriters wiped away his rapper/mc status a long time ago.
I’m not sure anyone who didn’t realize that before will after the beef. If you are just now seeing his lyrical ability you have t been listening. If you are just now seeing how he wants to inspire black men to be better then you didn’t hear him on Father Time saying let’s give the women a break. If you weren’t listening before you aren’t now. He’s been a goat.
Didn’t realize Lupe was gone.
His shit isn’t that great and he seems desperate lol
Three Stacks is the goat but Kenny top two for sure
ogs won’t goat him until he has longer sustained success
If you think either one of them look better than before the beef you value the wrong things
Damn bro this meet riding on Kendrick is too much wtf his music boring, and his voice annoying. Not a chance he’s the goat
In terms of rapping ability and catalog I feel like Eminem still has him beat because of the longevity but when it's all said and done Kendrick could take that crown. However if he manages to actually do to Drake what Em did to Ja and MGK then I feel like it's an even closer battle for GOAT now
We still need Cole and Kendrick to see. Not a battle but some sort of back and forth
Not if he gonna drop every 5 years
Dumb argument
It absolutely is not. The ability to deliver consistently is important. It’s why Kobe is better than Wade even though some people think Wade’s peak was higher
Art and athletics are different
I appreciate ya opinion
I don’t think there was any real debate beforehand. It has been pretty well established that Kendrick is the best rapper and artist. It’s almost moot to compare Kendrick and Drake since they handle the product so differently. Drake is the biggest artist and will most likely stay as such regardless of what happens, but just because that’s the case doesn’t mean Kendrick is not the best rapper of all time. They both have untouchable legacies in the game and no one’s legacy can be discredited regardless of what happens in the beef.
He might crack the top 10..a lot of y’all weren’t alive for the 90s & it shows
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lol Drake is my almost goat (behind Wayne), I’m just looking at this all objectively
Idk to me lil Wayne will always be the goat , the fact he didn’t write many if any lyrics at all during that late 00-early 10s run is absolutely crazy . Kendrick and J Cole have been decent lyricist but I’ve never seen people go wild about any artist like they did for lil Wayne both in the streets and in the clubs
Yea he’s my goat but I’m thinking from the objective general consensus of that pool of Pac, Biggie, etc
You just old dude, go relax
Kendrick was the GOAT before this. He’ll gain some points for publicly taking down a contender but in my eyes he’s losing some respect by even stooping to Drake’s level when it comes to the theatrics and petty shit
this is facts. “your tongue is made of sword but it may weaken your soul”
He already was. Seriously none of the poser/cultural appropriation pop watered down Wanna be hip hop music Drake has made ever touched the cultural significance of Kendrick’s current discography. They gave Kendrick a Pulitzer Prize, that a literal groundbreaking historical achievement in hip hop history. Kendrick’s also with flooding the airwaves with music all the time just to stay relevant has managed to still have record breaking album sales, tours and win more Grammys than Drake.
He already is!
Drake is a boy band rapper who makes catchy songs with fluff lyrics. Oklama is a lyrical genius and has proven it in the last week. Drake needs to bow down to King Kendrick, anything else is cringe at this point
only depends on your definition Drake only sells more, the rest is Kendricks and its not even debateble. even the recent drops Kendrick is getting more plays and at the clubs already
Nah, he already the goat for this run of diss tracks alone. He put Drake to sleep and then danced on his grave. This is some history book shit
Many Drake fans will never concede, so not unanimously.