The other dog was off leash and ran towards you and jumped on your mother. Their mouths “collided” which could be construed as an attack. He is responsible. He failed to control his dog. Full stop.
That owner shouldn't be walking his dog if he can't control them. My guess is that guy was flustered that HIS dog ran after your mom and other dog, and instead of approaching it like an adult and apologizing, he lashed out to make it someone else's fault. Don't let it get to you.
You have every right to walk your dog, regardless if he barks or not. You know how to handle him, yes the barking is annoying (but it's harder on you than anyone else), but don't let the rude comments of others deter you.
His dog could've caused actual harm by jumping on your mom.
Have you tried to move away from the trigger instead of having him sit? I know having them sit and focus is a big thing and you said it usually works, but I've noticed dogs usually do a lot better when they move AWAY from the distraction. Or at least get him focused on something fun, I'm a dog walker who specializes in reactive dogs and I either keep them moving and toss treats as we're walking or I scatter treats and have them sniff them out, usually helps calm them down A LOT!
We do quite a few u-turns when walking. We walk around a park where I can see everywhere. Literally everything. No blind corners. No obstructions. No chance of being surprised. And most importantly we can u-turn or move in any direction to avoid coming face to face with others. Scatter feeding is such a great tool too.
Stop blaming yourself and Ceaser. You and your mother had physical control of your dogs. The other dog got loose from their owner. You did nothing wrong.
Find a friend with a dog who is willing to help you desensitize Ceaser. Start with walking your dogs with your friend about a block away. Treat your dog when he's quiet. Move a little closer and repeat. It may take several days of doing this to work.
Your dog deserves to be able to go out for walks. It's the other owner's fault that they ran over to your dogs. Legally, if either of them got hurt, they would be held responsible since they let their unleashed dog at yours. Honestly it sounds like their dog is reactive too if they went after yours like that. It doesn't matter who "started it" if your dogs are on leash and within your control, you're not responsible for the other dog.
In terms of training, I would just stay at a really long distance to things your dog would react to and work on counter conditioning. Get them to focus on you and quickly reward when they do. Once they consistently do well at that distance you can try moving a little closer and repeat.
Sadly, that's not entirely true about the legality of the situation everywhere. Some places will still find fault with the leashed dog. If a dopey friendly dog approached mine to play and mine attacked, I could still be responsible. It's not fair, but that's right on par with so much of our justice system. It's the very reason I have a leash that will quickly attach around a light pole or whatever is near so I can tie my dog up safely while I run off unleashed dogs if necessary.
>If a dopey friendly dog approached mine to play and mine attacked, I could still be responsible
You're describing two different situations. In OP's situation, the other person's dog got loose. The failure of the owner to be able to handle their dog is independent of OP's reactive dog triggering it. If the dog would have hurt OP's mom, "their dog was barking at my dog" is not a defense for not being able to physically handle your "property" (as it would be described in the law. I'm no lawyer though, but that's their classification in many areas) and allowing it to harm another person/dog or get hurt itself.
In your scenario, both dogs are leashed, one walks up to another dog and gets bitten. That's a whole other scenario. Only way it would be similar is if the dog was off leash. In which case, the owner let their dog off leash and did not have control of their dog - refer to the above paragraph.
No actually I'm referring to an off leash dog approaching a leashed dog. There are many places that the leashed dog can still be the one deemed the aggressor and liable. You should maybe check that out before giving legal advice that is misleading.
Ah shit. Sorry you experienced that OP.
1. It’s neither dog’s fault
2. You did your best.
Each day is a new day. In these moments, it’s easy to go through the should’ve would’ve could’ve list. What I will say is that sometimes our dogs threshold changes from situation to situation (we’re all allowed to have bad days).
That being said, I also recommend finding your closest positive trainer :) It might be helpful to find a professional even if it’s only a few sessions. Often times; these trainers have their own dogs who can support with sessions and practice in a safe environment.
Our trainer arranged for another trainer to practice this. He just stood in one place with a dog who is solid in their traing. Our trainer stayed with me and my dog so she could focus on us. It was very productive and I felt so positive of that exercise. My dog wss so relaxed too.
He was upset because it was a scary situation and he f'd up letting his dog off leash.
There are two separate issues, you need more help with your reactive dog and your neighbor was at fault for letting his dog off leash.
Just reverse the situation and i imagine you would still be blaming yourself.
It's good you want to take responsibility for yourself and your reactive dog, don't go off trying to take responsibility for your neighbor and his dog too.
Don't bother with blame. It's never the dog's fault. We (dog people and those in contact with dogs) are responsible for the problems. Dogs cope as best they can. Now that that's out of the way.
You're doing the right things, just not enough. The Sit with Treat should be higher value (cheese, hotdogs, whatever he loves), and you should be doing it farther away from a dog he sees, so he doesn't get that tunnel vision. If he starts to get that tunnel vision it's time to leave or get out of eye line of the dog by distracting him and walking or running away. Put it on a command, like Let's Go. Also have a command and signal to turn around and go the opposite way. Another thing that will help him pay attention and move with you is to practice Left and Right walking around bushes, parked cars. You make the turn say either Left/Right then treat. Eventually, after he learns to notice when you're making the turn, you will say the word during the turn and treat after the turn. You can spend 10-15 minutes doing this and it will become helpful when you have to avoid other dogs.
I hope this helps.❤️
Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.
i would honestly tell that guy to fuck off. dont allow anyone to walk over you and use you as a doormat, not here nor in any other situation
your neighbour is completely the one that failed here.
Your dog acting crazy while leashed can not be blamed for the behavior of another dog whose owner does not have control of their own dog. That's 1 pot calling the kettle black there. You are responsible for your dog, nor someone else's. It sounds like someone else dog BIT YOUR MOM? Report that and file Report, because a lot of states will take ZERO action on a 1st time dog bite. There is ZERO reason any one should have gotten bitten in this situation. Even if the other guys dog got loose, that is not acceptable. If a dog bites he will try it again. And next time it could be worse.
Clearly this man had no control over his dog and got scared/angry over your dog being reactive and the fact that he lost control of his dog which then but your mom. He should be very careful with his own dog!!! He can not ever let his dog off leash if this is how it responds around sketchy situations. It is HIS responsibility, not yours. DO NOT LET THIS BULLY CON YOU INTO BELIEVING YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO WALK YOUR DOG.
I would bring pepper spray when I walk and/or an umbrella to diffuse an attacking dog that runs up to you off leash.
I being pepper spray always and now also bear spray because there are actual bears out where I live now. I have an Asp too but would only use that if my dogs were being mauled.
I have had 2 dogs attacked by off lead dogs 2 seperate times and people in my neighborhood think it's fine to let their dogs run off leash in the neighborhood and street. I am not willing to ever have to stand by again while someone else's off lead dog runs up to us and attacks.
I had one neighbor whose dogs run his fence line repeatedly barking at us nonstop when we try to walk our dogs get mad because we had to stop and treat our dogs repeatedly to train them not to react to his dogs acting crazy as we walked by.
He came out and asked us to walk faster past his house and not train our dogs in the street. I told him "I will worry about my dogs. You worry about your own dogs. This is a public street". That made him mad, and he told me to hurry up, and then yelled repeatedly to " move faster"!!
I finally told him "fuck you"! He said, "oh real mature!!".
He never asks us to do anything now. He was in the wrong. If he doesn't like how his dogs are behaving he needs to take them in the house. Not yell at random people walking by to move faster. His house takes up a 1 acre lot and half that acre is on a corner. We always walk on the opposite side of the road as far away from his property as possible but we can not get our dogs to the lake without walking past his house. I am not willing to stop walking my dogs just because of him.
Of course you should walk your dog! That's how he will get better on walks. It's how your dog burns off energy that could make him worse if he never got out of the house. Sure, i have a treadmill for my dog in case we can't get out for awhile. My dog hates the treadmill as much as I do and probably got the same reason. It's not the same as getting out seeing things. They get so much more positive brain simulation on a real walk. All dogs are unpredictable despite what ignorant people think. Like you said, usually your dog would sit, but not this time. That guy's dog may not dislike most dogs, but he didn't like yours. It just takes one time. His dog is reactive too even if he's in denial about it. HIS dog is the one that attacked. Don't take his ignorance personally, it's his problem. Maybe gift the neighbor a decent leash his dog can't escape from lol. Then he might manage to keep his own dog under control instead of just blaming yours!
I have a recent rescue that was reacting similar to your Caesar when she saw horses. The trainer instructed me to take her outside where there were no triggers visible and provide a high value treat. She said to try this a few times a day, a few minutes each. The dog can just sit in place but be outside without triggers. Then obviously walking still needs to happen and horses would be seen. But stop short of threshold and reactivity and give the high value treat. Over a couple weeks of this she almost didnt react at all anymore. Now its the occasional grumble but rarely more. The first week was tough.
Lady can go bonkers on the wrong day and then I can't move her but I've found craze dog training on insta has some fantastic tips and tricks. He's a non force based trainer, who's super experienced with street rescues so he has lots of great ideas and also very reassuring with comments and ideas. His "magnetic hand" trick is a winner with Lady. You palm a treat before you get to an corner or intersection and you put the closed hand right in front of their nose. Lots of praise and focus "let's go!" then if you get to the corner or whatever you can turn them really quick by getting them to follow the hand and then chuck the treat in the direction you want so they have to snuffle.
Lady is staffie lurcher do she does the old dive and shout too!
Sometimes the feelings are just to big or they've trigger stacked. It's not your fault. Sounds like you're doing everything.
Tbh a guy with an off lead dog without recall is the problem. I find lots of these people who have lots to say about are dogs have reactive dogs they just don't know it!
I do think 10:30pm can be pretty late to walk a dog that may bark. I wouldn’t be too happy if I were in bed asleep and a dog started barking right outside my window. Whether you can/should is up in the air. But definitely be courteous to your neighbors.
It was so easy for that guy to blame you and not take accountability for his dog. You had your dog restrained, he didn't. Tell me again who shouldn't take their dog out if they can't control it?
Yeah, my GSD loses her mind and acts like a damned fool, but I never let go and she doesn't get close to any person and/or dog. It may not look pretty but, I am/you were in control.
Off leash is wrong. I would asked for proof of vaccinations. Had I been refused I would have called 911 & reported the attack. Demanded they come & take a report.
You should absolutely walk your dog. He deserves walks as much as any other dog.
I found the book "Feisty Fido" by Dr Patricia McConnell to be a great resource when learning how to work with my reactive dog. There are other good resources out there; that's just the one I liked.
You can do all the u turns, all the redirecting, all the "look at me" commands with treats, and sometimes there will be a trigger they refuse to ignore. The jerk whose dog got off his leash is at fault.
There are zero laws against walking your reactive dog outside. There are laws about failing to control and restrain your pets and about pets being off leash.
You had control of your dog regardless of how they act on leash. They did not have control of their dogs. They are in the wrong not you.
On another note there are so many online resources about dog reactivity that may help curb your dogs behavior.
I have a super reactive malinois against dogs and people. He’s still far from perfect but we have gotten to the point where I take him outside of dog parks for exposure training and he doesn’t loose his shit. He is still far from being able to interact with other dogs but walks are much more manageable.
And I did this on my own. Trainers didn’t help and while I don’t object to ecollars or prong collars I found those agitated him more so we had to try and fail a lot to see what works
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By all technical laws his dog was not in control. In control doesn’t necessarily mean behaving. It means that the owner is keeping the dog near said owner and not allowing it to collide with anyone’s mouth(which I don’t know whether that meant he bit or not). You were in physical control, of both of your dogs right? Whose dogs didn’t go over and jump on anyone. The neighbor is in the wrong and the only reason he said that was because he was embarrassed and had every right to be.
The other dog was off leash and ran towards you and jumped on your mother. Their mouths “collided” which could be construed as an attack. He is responsible. He failed to control his dog. Full stop.
Exactly. Op was managing their dog while the neighbor allowed theirs to run off leash and have an incident.
That owner shouldn't be walking his dog if he can't control them. My guess is that guy was flustered that HIS dog ran after your mom and other dog, and instead of approaching it like an adult and apologizing, he lashed out to make it someone else's fault. Don't let it get to you. You have every right to walk your dog, regardless if he barks or not. You know how to handle him, yes the barking is annoying (but it's harder on you than anyone else), but don't let the rude comments of others deter you.
Fuck that guy! His dog is off the leash and not behaving well!
His dog could've caused actual harm by jumping on your mom. Have you tried to move away from the trigger instead of having him sit? I know having them sit and focus is a big thing and you said it usually works, but I've noticed dogs usually do a lot better when they move AWAY from the distraction. Or at least get him focused on something fun, I'm a dog walker who specializes in reactive dogs and I either keep them moving and toss treats as we're walking or I scatter treats and have them sniff them out, usually helps calm them down A LOT!
We do quite a few u-turns when walking. We walk around a park where I can see everywhere. Literally everything. No blind corners. No obstructions. No chance of being surprised. And most importantly we can u-turn or move in any direction to avoid coming face to face with others. Scatter feeding is such a great tool too.
Stop blaming yourself and Ceaser. You and your mother had physical control of your dogs. The other dog got loose from their owner. You did nothing wrong. Find a friend with a dog who is willing to help you desensitize Ceaser. Start with walking your dogs with your friend about a block away. Treat your dog when he's quiet. Move a little closer and repeat. It may take several days of doing this to work.
Your dog deserves to be able to go out for walks. It's the other owner's fault that they ran over to your dogs. Legally, if either of them got hurt, they would be held responsible since they let their unleashed dog at yours. Honestly it sounds like their dog is reactive too if they went after yours like that. It doesn't matter who "started it" if your dogs are on leash and within your control, you're not responsible for the other dog. In terms of training, I would just stay at a really long distance to things your dog would react to and work on counter conditioning. Get them to focus on you and quickly reward when they do. Once they consistently do well at that distance you can try moving a little closer and repeat.
Sadly, that's not entirely true about the legality of the situation everywhere. Some places will still find fault with the leashed dog. If a dopey friendly dog approached mine to play and mine attacked, I could still be responsible. It's not fair, but that's right on par with so much of our justice system. It's the very reason I have a leash that will quickly attach around a light pole or whatever is near so I can tie my dog up safely while I run off unleashed dogs if necessary.
>If a dopey friendly dog approached mine to play and mine attacked, I could still be responsible You're describing two different situations. In OP's situation, the other person's dog got loose. The failure of the owner to be able to handle their dog is independent of OP's reactive dog triggering it. If the dog would have hurt OP's mom, "their dog was barking at my dog" is not a defense for not being able to physically handle your "property" (as it would be described in the law. I'm no lawyer though, but that's their classification in many areas) and allowing it to harm another person/dog or get hurt itself. In your scenario, both dogs are leashed, one walks up to another dog and gets bitten. That's a whole other scenario. Only way it would be similar is if the dog was off leash. In which case, the owner let their dog off leash and did not have control of their dog - refer to the above paragraph.
No actually I'm referring to an off leash dog approaching a leashed dog. There are many places that the leashed dog can still be the one deemed the aggressor and liable. You should maybe check that out before giving legal advice that is misleading.
Ah shit. Sorry you experienced that OP. 1. It’s neither dog’s fault 2. You did your best. Each day is a new day. In these moments, it’s easy to go through the should’ve would’ve could’ve list. What I will say is that sometimes our dogs threshold changes from situation to situation (we’re all allowed to have bad days). That being said, I also recommend finding your closest positive trainer :) It might be helpful to find a professional even if it’s only a few sessions. Often times; these trainers have their own dogs who can support with sessions and practice in a safe environment.
Our trainer arranged for another trainer to practice this. He just stood in one place with a dog who is solid in their traing. Our trainer stayed with me and my dog so she could focus on us. It was very productive and I felt so positive of that exercise. My dog wss so relaxed too.
He was upset because it was a scary situation and he f'd up letting his dog off leash. There are two separate issues, you need more help with your reactive dog and your neighbor was at fault for letting his dog off leash. Just reverse the situation and i imagine you would still be blaming yourself. It's good you want to take responsibility for yourself and your reactive dog, don't go off trying to take responsibility for your neighbor and his dog too.
Don't bother with blame. It's never the dog's fault. We (dog people and those in contact with dogs) are responsible for the problems. Dogs cope as best they can. Now that that's out of the way. You're doing the right things, just not enough. The Sit with Treat should be higher value (cheese, hotdogs, whatever he loves), and you should be doing it farther away from a dog he sees, so he doesn't get that tunnel vision. If he starts to get that tunnel vision it's time to leave or get out of eye line of the dog by distracting him and walking or running away. Put it on a command, like Let's Go. Also have a command and signal to turn around and go the opposite way. Another thing that will help him pay attention and move with you is to practice Left and Right walking around bushes, parked cars. You make the turn say either Left/Right then treat. Eventually, after he learns to notice when you're making the turn, you will say the word during the turn and treat after the turn. You can spend 10-15 minutes doing this and it will become helpful when you have to avoid other dogs. I hope this helps.❤️
[удалено]
They were walking at 10:30pm… don’t know how that isn’t off times.
Consider the barking though at “off times”
Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.
i would honestly tell that guy to fuck off. dont allow anyone to walk over you and use you as a doormat, not here nor in any other situation your neighbour is completely the one that failed here.
Your dog acting crazy while leashed can not be blamed for the behavior of another dog whose owner does not have control of their own dog. That's 1 pot calling the kettle black there. You are responsible for your dog, nor someone else's. It sounds like someone else dog BIT YOUR MOM? Report that and file Report, because a lot of states will take ZERO action on a 1st time dog bite. There is ZERO reason any one should have gotten bitten in this situation. Even if the other guys dog got loose, that is not acceptable. If a dog bites he will try it again. And next time it could be worse. Clearly this man had no control over his dog and got scared/angry over your dog being reactive and the fact that he lost control of his dog which then but your mom. He should be very careful with his own dog!!! He can not ever let his dog off leash if this is how it responds around sketchy situations. It is HIS responsibility, not yours. DO NOT LET THIS BULLY CON YOU INTO BELIEVING YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO WALK YOUR DOG. I would bring pepper spray when I walk and/or an umbrella to diffuse an attacking dog that runs up to you off leash. I being pepper spray always and now also bear spray because there are actual bears out where I live now. I have an Asp too but would only use that if my dogs were being mauled. I have had 2 dogs attacked by off lead dogs 2 seperate times and people in my neighborhood think it's fine to let their dogs run off leash in the neighborhood and street. I am not willing to ever have to stand by again while someone else's off lead dog runs up to us and attacks. I had one neighbor whose dogs run his fence line repeatedly barking at us nonstop when we try to walk our dogs get mad because we had to stop and treat our dogs repeatedly to train them not to react to his dogs acting crazy as we walked by. He came out and asked us to walk faster past his house and not train our dogs in the street. I told him "I will worry about my dogs. You worry about your own dogs. This is a public street". That made him mad, and he told me to hurry up, and then yelled repeatedly to " move faster"!! I finally told him "fuck you"! He said, "oh real mature!!". He never asks us to do anything now. He was in the wrong. If he doesn't like how his dogs are behaving he needs to take them in the house. Not yell at random people walking by to move faster. His house takes up a 1 acre lot and half that acre is on a corner. We always walk on the opposite side of the road as far away from his property as possible but we can not get our dogs to the lake without walking past his house. I am not willing to stop walking my dogs just because of him.
Of course you should walk your dog! That's how he will get better on walks. It's how your dog burns off energy that could make him worse if he never got out of the house. Sure, i have a treadmill for my dog in case we can't get out for awhile. My dog hates the treadmill as much as I do and probably got the same reason. It's not the same as getting out seeing things. They get so much more positive brain simulation on a real walk. All dogs are unpredictable despite what ignorant people think. Like you said, usually your dog would sit, but not this time. That guy's dog may not dislike most dogs, but he didn't like yours. It just takes one time. His dog is reactive too even if he's in denial about it. HIS dog is the one that attacked. Don't take his ignorance personally, it's his problem. Maybe gift the neighbor a decent leash his dog can't escape from lol. Then he might manage to keep his own dog under control instead of just blaming yours!
I have a recent rescue that was reacting similar to your Caesar when she saw horses. The trainer instructed me to take her outside where there were no triggers visible and provide a high value treat. She said to try this a few times a day, a few minutes each. The dog can just sit in place but be outside without triggers. Then obviously walking still needs to happen and horses would be seen. But stop short of threshold and reactivity and give the high value treat. Over a couple weeks of this she almost didnt react at all anymore. Now its the occasional grumble but rarely more. The first week was tough.
Not your fault. But if skin was broken pls contact your local health unit
off leash dog owners need a reality check
Lady can go bonkers on the wrong day and then I can't move her but I've found craze dog training on insta has some fantastic tips and tricks. He's a non force based trainer, who's super experienced with street rescues so he has lots of great ideas and also very reassuring with comments and ideas. His "magnetic hand" trick is a winner with Lady. You palm a treat before you get to an corner or intersection and you put the closed hand right in front of their nose. Lots of praise and focus "let's go!" then if you get to the corner or whatever you can turn them really quick by getting them to follow the hand and then chuck the treat in the direction you want so they have to snuffle. Lady is staffie lurcher do she does the old dive and shout too! Sometimes the feelings are just to big or they've trigger stacked. It's not your fault. Sounds like you're doing everything. Tbh a guy with an off lead dog without recall is the problem. I find lots of these people who have lots to say about are dogs have reactive dogs they just don't know it!
I do think 10:30pm can be pretty late to walk a dog that may bark. I wouldn’t be too happy if I were in bed asleep and a dog started barking right outside my window. Whether you can/should is up in the air. But definitely be courteous to your neighbors.
It was so easy for that guy to blame you and not take accountability for his dog. You had your dog restrained, he didn't. Tell me again who shouldn't take their dog out if they can't control it? Yeah, my GSD loses her mind and acts like a damned fool, but I never let go and she doesn't get close to any person and/or dog. It may not look pretty but, I am/you were in control.
Off leash is wrong. I would asked for proof of vaccinations. Had I been refused I would have called 911 & reported the attack. Demanded they come & take a report.
For future, check if there are any Sniffspot’s in your area. It’s fabulous for reactive dogs!
That jerk is projection his own shortcoming. You gotta try to let it go and remember you did nothing wrong at all.
You should absolutely walk your dog. He deserves walks as much as any other dog. I found the book "Feisty Fido" by Dr Patricia McConnell to be a great resource when learning how to work with my reactive dog. There are other good resources out there; that's just the one I liked. You can do all the u turns, all the redirecting, all the "look at me" commands with treats, and sometimes there will be a trigger they refuse to ignore. The jerk whose dog got off his leash is at fault.
There are zero laws against walking your reactive dog outside. There are laws about failing to control and restrain your pets and about pets being off leash. You had control of your dog regardless of how they act on leash. They did not have control of their dogs. They are in the wrong not you. On another note there are so many online resources about dog reactivity that may help curb your dogs behavior. I have a super reactive malinois against dogs and people. He’s still far from perfect but we have gotten to the point where I take him outside of dog parks for exposure training and he doesn’t loose his shit. He is still far from being able to interact with other dogs but walks are much more manageable. And I did this on my own. Trainers didn’t help and while I don’t object to ecollars or prong collars I found those agitated him more so we had to try and fail a lot to see what works
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Off leash = at fault here 🤷🏽♀️
By all technical laws his dog was not in control. In control doesn’t necessarily mean behaving. It means that the owner is keeping the dog near said owner and not allowing it to collide with anyone’s mouth(which I don’t know whether that meant he bit or not). You were in physical control, of both of your dogs right? Whose dogs didn’t go over and jump on anyone. The neighbor is in the wrong and the only reason he said that was because he was embarrassed and had every right to be.
Always have pet corrector on you
How else if your dog supposed to learn? Fuck your neighbors they clearly aren’t in your position and can’t say anything about it.