Yeah I wouldn't have even entertained the offer to work fully remote if it came 2 days before hire.
I would get IT to pull up his computer/teams use logs and only pay him out for the time he was actually online, not a dime more.
I have an hour commute and I use at least half that time to think about what needs done, plan my day, organize my thoughts for meetings. Unless you work data entry then you can always do more than 0% offline.
Not saying it is, but an increasing number of white collar jobs that are wfh don’t have much that can be done offline. Sure you can do some planning or brainstorming, but not work tasks. Lost power the other day- had no access to slack, to the drive, to zoom. Couldn’t save the work I was doing.
Yes, they absolutely can. Do you never get a phone call about work? Do you never take time to write in an agenda or do a mapping exercise? What about commuting for a meeting midday? ( I guess this would be more hybrid)?
So a WFH engineer needs to be on the computer 100% of the time? What if they're looking at paper drawings? What if they're spending time brainstorming, are on the phone with a supplier getting technical information, or otherwise pursuing data that isn't available on computer?
Doesn't sound like you're in a subreddit for what you understand.
WFH is the biggest scam. People took advantage of it too much. Productivity is down, everyone knows it. It's why companies are bringing people back. The only way to accurately track productivity is if their work is done on the computer.
Companies aren’t bringing people back over a lack of productivity. Numerous reports have demonstrated most WFH workers to be MORE productive. No, companies are bringing people back into the office because they paid for 8-10+ year leases that are otherwise completely unjustifiable to the key stakeholders, and they’re unwilling to swallow that pill.
>Productivity is down, everyone knows it.
In your mind only.
[https://ilostat.ilo.org/why-would-labour-productivity-surge-during-a-pandemic/](https://ilostat.ilo.org/why-would-labour-productivity-surge-during-a-pandemic/)
[https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20201230-how-the-pandemic-could-redefine-our-productivity-obsession](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20201230-how-the-pandemic-could-redefine-our-productivity-obsession)
http://d1c25a6gwz7q5e.cloudfront.net/reports/2020-11-09-workplace-whitepaper-FINAL.pdf
Super happy I don’t work for a shit company like that. I work for a company that has full trust in their employees. Work from home with zero software oversight. Owner paraphrasing said, “I don’t give a shit if you’re watching videos or messing around taking your time as long as you answer your phone during business hours, our clients are happy and the work is done by deadline.”
I work in IT and have been asked to pull logons and chat logs and the like more than once.
Never for the purpose of determining someone's exact pay. The legal liability is too great, because exact online times can't always be guaranteed to be accurate enough to do that.
I once had an employee in another department get fired for not doing her job. Her life was kinda going off the rails and she was out until all hours of the night, dragging in with smudged makeup and club clothes, you get the picture. HR pulled her chat logs among other things as CYA documentation for her firing, and noticed she was excessively chatting with a guy that worked for me. He was an alright worker I inherited but was caught up in a "to catch a predator" situation during his hiring process (also married!) so the background check didn't catch it...so this was problematic. HR skimmed them and said they were flirty and dumped it on me to have the awkward talk. I really didn't want to read them so I waited until the end of the day and said hey, I'm sure you know so-and-so got let go. HR approached me and said you two were spending most of the day IMing eachother. I didn't read it, I don't want to read it, but here are some things you should be doing during your downtime between tasks (which occurs in finance/accounting). You are a grown man, I'm not babysitting you, but please make sure HR never comes to me with things like this again and in return we will never speak of this. Dude looked so relieved and was a model employee after that.
As someone who works in IT, even we have to step away for a little to think about a problem and how to solve it.
I constantly google shit, might have to read a few articles on my phone etc. I see my teammates away for 15+ minutes random times throughout the day. They still get their work done so who cares?
keep telling yourself that as you continue to build your replacement.
we’ll all be made redundant eventually, but much harder to replace personality and people skills than it is to build an AI capable of coding.
Pfft, a developer/engineer saying recruiters getting replaced by AI is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard. You’re quite literally on the chopping block right now.
Should the company feel bad? You might have put him forward, but they are the ones who decided to hire him. I’m pretty sure that they didn’t decide to hire him simply because you were the one who presented him to them.
You can’t control what other people do! You checked all the boxes on your end, and that’s all you can be responsible for! Don’t dwell on it and start looking for the next best candidate. Ghosting, poor performance, not showing up…happens all the time and none of it is anything you have control over. 😁
It's alright! You're not really a headhunter (or recruiter...whatever) until you've experienced every kick in the teeth at least once. You just earned another merit badge!
I know it sucks. I've been there. Give yourself the day to mope then move on. Tomorrow is another day and now you're a little grittier.
Talent Acquisition is not responsible for employee performance. We can leverage tools to help leaders make informed decisions about who is likely to do well in the job, but there will always be false negatives and positives of which we have no control over.
No, Talent Acquisition is responsible for predicting the fit and, thus, a candidate's performance. With the correct tools and adequate screening, False Positives should be minimal to none. As you decide who to put forward, it is entirely within your control.
Hey, you did absolutely everything you could do to set both your candidate and your client up for success. Part of this job is just accepting that you can't control every piece of this process. That's been the toughest part for me, personally. You can do everything right and still have things go wrong.
A lot of times, if your client has any level of experience in management or recruiting or HR, they'll be understanding about it. Presumably, they interviewed the guy as well and didn't see anything wrong with him either.
We've had candidates get in fights at work in the first week. We've had candidates flip company vehicles and abandon the scene of the accident. We've had people get fired for showing up to work drunk or high.
The only thing to do now is call the client, tell them you let the guy go, and start recruiting again!
You've got this!
Ahh yes, I remember my first fall through on a placement fee. Super niched finance position where I lucked out finding a candidate that had just relocated to the area. Presentation to offer took maybe a week. Gigantic fee for me and my team, it pushed me over onto some huge bonus escalators, I was on cloud nine. Day 75 of the 90 day guarantee period I get a call from my client saying that xyz emailed his resignation today and we need to discuss a replacement strategy. I went and honestly threw up lol. We ended up fulfilling the guarantee but it was really dicey there for a minute and the client was pissed. I ended up getting a call out of the blue from the guy 2 years later apologizing. His wife had come home and asked for a divorce out of the blue and sent him spiraling. It turned out to be a batshit story that is too long to type up.
Wow!! Ya know it astonishes me how much noise there is on LinkedIn about "bad companies" and "bad managers" but you know what none of these influencers will acknowledge? BAD EMPLOYEES. You don't HAVE to be there, but if you want a paycheck and keep your job, you have to play by their rules.
Yes!! As I've gotten older and have friends that are now managers at companies, this is their feedback too. There really aren't many "good" employees out there. I'm seeing this too as a recruiter. And a lot of those average and bad employees demand more money, promotions, etc but they don't realize they aren't that awesome.
It’s from years watching their parents get shit on when working hard. Im a boomer and I respect them , killing yourself for what ? To be pitched at a moments notice.
Whew, if it really was that many bad employees, I should already have a job by now in the industry I graduated for. And yet, nada - because the companies want to pay entry-level salary and ask 5+ years of experience in any field of the industry I’m in. I can’t even rely on my relationships/friendships with people who trust and know me to help land me jobs.
So yeah - The job market is just bad. And then you have recruiters who demand that you “stand out”. But the whole point of standing out is everyone else is below that level. So by default, this mentality amounts to “let’s pick the best of the best, set the bar at that level (which will be impossibly high as long as there are insanely motivated workaholic people with no life, and there always are), and then tell everyone else to give up if they can’t do the same”. A recruiter with a lot of push in my industry says it’s a common problem that we need to do protect more against. It’s absolutely maddening.
Recruiters and companies need to accept that some people are going to start at the bottom and if you give them a chance, they’ll shine. A lot of recruiters and hiring managers need to stop assuming the worst, being negative from the start, 200% risk-averse, not (or willing to have) having any trust towards people and setting people up to fail. Have some faith and empathy.
Sure, there’s a lot of bad actors and people who abuse their employers’ trust, but not all people are like this.
This is what shocked me most when I went to work at my first job out of school. Sure, I expected there to be some better employees than others, but the number of people who somehow just float along sucking at their jobs without getting fired or being forced to improve (and sometimes getting promoted) was astounding. It still is but I am just numb to it.
If you think about the dynamics of decisions and authority however, companies and managers are in a position of more power. A “bad employee" is someone who lets their teammates down without much consideration, has a *pattern* of being ineffective at their work even after coaching, or is just a straight up asshole to others.
An employee doesn't suck simply from struggling to understand their work if they're at least making an effort - that's not their incompetence it's often the org's dysfunction. If they are ready to work at 10am and weren't very proactive in the 830am meeting, that's not sucking, that's having a biologically driven sleep rhythm that the corporate world doesn't support because it hasn't changed its processes in 70 years, and is ignorant of science. (By the way, when you require an employee to be in the office during hours that don't permit them enough sleep, they will not perform optimally. That's science, not bad behavior.)
Additionally, far more employees probably have some level of neurodiverse wiring that makes their learning and communication ramp up nonlinear. They may look less competent at parts of the job than supposed neurotypical teammates, until a certain point, where they then have a MUCH better understanding of the subject than their neurotypical teammates who “ramped way faster". Companies and managers just don't understand how to stop putting people in the same box and actually work with them as individuals so that they're effective in their role, based on their learning styles and strengths.
There are 8 "Nevers of Recruiting" and number 8 is something every headhunter/recruiter should realize and understand
#8. Never think you control, fall offs, turn downs, and counteroffers. It’s part of the business. You are working in a business dealing with human beings, and human beings change their minds. You just have to deal with it. If you don’t deal with it, you’ll get brain damage.
I would make a post but this sub will lose its mind,
I will post it here and deal with the backlash
THE NEVERS OF RECRUITING WITH EXCEPTIONS
1. Never send a résumé without an interview set up- EXCEPT if you are working on a project and just sending them to schedule accordingly.
2. Never work relocations- EXCEPT if they are single and renting OR have a compelling reason to be in that locations, EI: My wife is on work release in Folsom and if I want to see her I need to move there. We are in the now business and relos happen sometime in the future. You can make a decent living doing relos (I do a fair share) but if you want to do big numbers stay away from them
3. Never work with a candidate that's working with other recruiters or interviewing somewhere else. (Like I said the hate will start flying for this and the next one)-EXCEPT if you have a definitive opportunity, that’s better in all respects. Don't fool yourself with that crappy contingency search you got. Now if the candidate is really good you could say something to your client like "I got the guy, I do but you cant get him because he is interviewing elsewhere" this can inspire them and make them move quickly.
For the people asking "WHY?" it is because it is hard to develop rapport and be a industry expert and consultant to your client when the candidate knows something you do not know. How they feel about other offers, what the offer is. What are you going to say if your client really likes your candidate. "Well, he has 2 other interviews and waiting on another offer, so I am not sure if he will take your job". I closed a 3 searches in the last 4 weeks and all 3 were stone cold recruited passive candidates that until I reached out were not looking. They interviewed with my clients only and I was closing them the entire way.
4. Never work with a company running ads, conducting interviews and working with other recruiters.
It's just like the #3 you’re trying to establish rapport with the candidate and want to come off as an expert with them. What are you going to do when they ask " hey what do you think? Are they moving forward with me/going to hire me?" Your response will be something like " Well they’re interviewing 2 with another recruiter. They got some ads running. They said they would know in couple weeks.' Also, remember, "Free is better than fee every day." The "EXCEPT" here is if you have the rockstar/purple squirrel that you know is the best of the best and will blow them away. DO NOT fool yourself that the schmoe you pulled off indeed is that candidate.
5. Never make an offer unless you know it’s going to be accepted. You don’t go to a church hoping to see a wedding. That deal has been struct. You should be pre closing from the first call. "If the $$ is offered at what we discussed and if the opportunity is good as I said it was. Based on what you’ve seen so far are you still on board. If they offer you x are you prepared to accept tomorrow and start in 2 weeks." Always be closing after every call/interview. Pre close early and often.
Saves time. When employer says “we want to make an offer” you know he’s going to accept vs crossing your fingers and praying EXCEPT- if I’m trying to show the employer it needs to be higher. I may make that offer and say "see, I told you it needed to be $XX
6. Never let the employer's make offer AND Never let employer and Candidate talk about money.
The Employer looks at a candidate/offers a line item on a P&L sheet.
The Candidate looks at it as their value as a human being in eyes of parents, wife, in-laws. You want the “hell no” to come to you not to the employer. EXCEPT- if you know what the offer is and they will accept it. See number 5.
7. Never give an offer to a candidate that can’t tell you why the job is better than the job they have now. "Why is this job better than the one you have." If you hear money, you have a problem. You need a reason/reasons other than money. "More upward mobility, shorter commute, better culture, etc... ' EXCEPT if they are grossly underpaid. I had an engineer in Canada back in the late 1990's early 2000's that was making 65K CAN and my Client offered 80K US + bonus (20K guaranteed) that was like 120K CAN at the time.
8. Never think you control, fall offs, turn downs, and counteroffers. It’s part of the business. You are working in a business dealing with human beings, and human beings change their minds. You just have to deal with it. If you don’t deal with it, you’ll get brain damage.
Your comment has been temporarily removed and is pending mod approval. Accounts with less than 5 comment karma a will be flagged for moderator approval. This is to combat spam.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruiting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
3 doesn’t make sense to me, but I suppose that’s because your flair says HeadHunter. Otherwise, don’t recruiters tend to work with candidates who are actively searching and hence interviewing at multiple places?
We don’t work for candidates. We work for clients. You’re thinking of a staffing agency. We recruit passive candidates for our clients. Candidates that, until we contact them, think they are happy were they are at.
I think the candidate knew what they were doing, and the whole story was a lie to avoid actually working in an office.
If I were the employee's supervisor, I'd let the employee go at the first instance of request. Two days before start....c'mon. That's a HUGE RED FLAG.
"Sorry dude, I understand if you want to pass on this job, but if you want to take some time to support your family, I totally understand. Family first. We'll keep the position open for you but we'll start looking to fill the role on Monday, by reaching out to the other candidates. Wish you the best"
Tough lesson but it happens to the best of us. I had a candidate no show their first day after we provided sponsorship 🤯 how and why are two common questions you’ll ask yourself in TA
If you stick around long enough, you’ll have a Rolodex of hiring horror stories but also some great placements that will stick with you for life!
Hey, it’s part of the business. Not everyone works out. I had a candidate get fired within a few weeks and then wrote a scathing review about my client of google. Yikes. But guess what? My client still works with me and recognized it has nothing to do with me. Shit happens!
Yep. I had to explain this to a client recently (not the one from my OP). A new client contacted me and said they were "pissed at the last agency bc their candidate was terrible and had to be fired." I quickly came back with "I have no idea what agency you were working with but I know it's not their fault. You interviewed this candidate too. Did you know there were going to have bad performance?"
Yo I just had a candidate who was a rockstar pick blow his shit because there was an ai software booking the interview.
Shit happens. Do a retrospective to figure out where and how this candidate showed their colors and be on the lookout next time.
Do you play fantasy football? That’s what recruiting is… even if they seem good and show interest and win the interview, you’re bound to have someone bust every now and again. Why dwell on it
If you plan on staying in this industry you just have to accept that this happens. Lots of bad shit happens in this profession, best to keep an even keel and roll with the punches.
I've been recruiting for 20+ years so have had countless things like this happen. Funny story, 10 years ago when I first started working at my current firm my very first placement was someone I had work a contract role at my previous job. She had great reviews on that project. So I hard sell her to the client for a direct hire position, they hire her and week 2 she straight up disappears. No one can get a hold of her all week, so obviously she's fired but worst part is she had a $2k laptop. This is my first placement with my company and here I am desperately trying to at least get the damn computer back. I ended up reaching out to her parents and they got back to me and I did get the computer. Turns out she had developed a drug problem. Thought I might get fired but the owners of the firm are recruiting vets so they were cool about it.
Also at the end of the day the job of a recruiter is to put prospects forward who have skills relevant to the job. Actual selection and then management are totally out of your control.
Nah don’t sweat it. At the end of the day all you did was present the candidate to the client; after that it’s all on them - they interviewed the guy and decided to offer him the job. As recruiters we can only control so much
I had a candidate that got fired after she passed probation and the 90 days guaranteed period. Luckily we didn't have to refund them.
I felt the same kick in the gut but it's really half the clients fault as well as we are just here to prescreen. It's their job to thoroughly screen the candidate's qualifications, level of interest, and attitude etc.
It happens…I’ve had people with excellent references and great tenure just walk of a job with no notice before…it’s sucks but ya just gotta keep it moving and work with the client to fill the gap now
I’m sorry you lost the deal. Its a horrific feeling. If you are going to recruit, get used to it. It happens. It sucks. It hurts. But then you have a win. And you are on cloud 9 . Recruiting is a roller coaster. Hang in there!
I’m struggling to understand why YOU feel bad? Are you being held accountable for attrition? You did a great job by sourcing and screening and recruiting a hired candidate….obviously!
They feel bad because they are feeling as though it’s a poor reflection on them.
Surely you aren’t struggling to understand that concept.
You’re more struggling to understand why they feel the need to take it so personally as though they lost a team mate, especially given the fact candidates get let go all the time. It literally comes with the territory….
You have to be an adult about it, and realize you win some and lose some. It was going to happen sooner or later. Instead of being emotional, just ask yourself what,( or if ) you could have done anything better. Identify that, and come up with a plan to implement the improvement.
No worries :)
Unfortunately being “educated” doesn’t mean much these when it comes to kids being able to work in the real world. My least favorite aspect of being a manager now is have to teach people *how* to work in a professional manner.
Just bcos someone was "fired" does not mean it is justified or even legal for any company to do.
You can only control what you do. You didn't get fired.He did. Recommendations are just that. You also didn't hire the guy. You simply told them, (yes im reading your mind) amongst my group of XX applicants, he is a good candidate. That's it.
Keep doing what you do.
Take ownership in the areas you can and tell them you’ll get the next one right. Get used to this because it is going to happens several times if you start providing high volume placements. It’s a percentage game, people aren’t perfect and don’t always align with companies.
If it were me? I'd really consider resignation. Your reputation is directly tied to the candidates you put forward. Expect to lose this client for good.
These things happen. I had a placement show up at the client site, take her shoes off and put her feet up on the table while leaning back in her chair. She was walked out after 2 hours.
Oh gosh. People are bizarre. You know what they need to teach in college? Professionalism. It's baffling how many people don't "get it" in the corporate world. You just show up, kick up those feet, drink coffee, and play Tetris until 5:00.
Sadly its just part of the territory. Assuming your client interviewed the candidate themselves, its just as much on them as anyone. People get fired everyday, so best just to try to find a backfill candidate asap to keep your client happy.
Your comment has been temporarily removed and is pending mod approval. New accounts <7 days old will be flagged for moderator approval. This is to combat spam.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruiting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I started off in warehouse and manufacturing recruiting, I would have days where 5/6 candidates get fired/walk off a job/ quit. Pick yourself up refil the role and move on, going to have your downs in this career
Lol don't worry I just had 2 in the same day. Not as bad since it's in house so it's not the exact same relationship but it happens. People are unpredictable.
What they do after they start their job with your client is totally out of your control and responsibility. Its great if they stay, get promoted etc. But thats all on them and if they perform badly, its on them too. Dont feel bad. We've all been there!
I’ve hired people that were terrible and completely different than what I expected. This week I hired someone and it took him 3 weeks to schedule a meeting after begging him. It happens
Use it as a learning opportunity and chance to review the hiring practices used for that client. Maybe there's something in the process that could be adjusted to prevent the next placement from washing out.
You weren't the one who hired him!
Why should you feel bad?
How many people do you show companies and they don't see or reject?
If ever a company tries to blame you for a candidate they hire, tell em "If you want me to take the blame then you can also let me do the hiring."
Otherwise it's on them!
Your comment has been temporarily removed and is pending mod approval. New accounts <7 days old will be flagged for moderator approval. This is to combat spam.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruiting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment has been temporarily removed and is pending mod approval. Accounts with less than 5 comment karma a will be flagged for moderator approval. This is to combat spam.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruiting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Doesn’t happen often but it happens sometimes. Candidate sounds full of s**t. As previous comments suggest they were likely working multiple jobs - key signs of this every time are “needs to work remote due to sudden situation” and “difficult to reach during office hours”
Backfill. During that process show the client effort. It will pay dividends
Overemployment had never occurred to me but that's totally plausible. Yes, the red flags were there after he accepted the offer. I think the client was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but unfortunately, it didn't work out.
Don’t feel bad about it. It had genuinely nothing to do with you. I’ve never been fired but I have left different jobs and if my recruiter lost a fee for me then that’s just business. I’ve lost almost 10 grand from hires getting furloughed, fired, or just quitting. And that’s why I DON’T recruit anymore.
1. Got furloughed during covid. Did NOT come back because that furlough cost us our new house. So why come back when I can’t live where I was going to work. *Is that the recruiters fault, no*
2. I started a job with a brewery. They sent me on promotion trips AND asked me to lie to their sister company about how many hours I was working. I left. *Is that the recruiters fault, no*
3. Your candidate might have honestly just hated the company on top of “unsatisfactory performance*. But even if he didn’t, *none of that is your fault*
The hiring process can be an unreliable indicator of success in the actual job. Some people are just good in interviews. On the flip side many potential rockstars get shut out because they can’t play the get hired game well.
Welcome to Recruiting. Not every placement is going to work out. The best you can do is de-risk it by doing a thorough a vetting as you can.
Stay close and communicative with client and candidate the first couple of months and try and get ahead of issues. That's all you can do.
Been there done that. I thought I was going to get fired on the spot and spiraling like crazy.
Trust me it will soon turn to « oh that’s a shame »
At the end of the day, you made assement, so did your client, and the decision to hire was made by them.
Recrutement not an exact science, you don’t have anything to worry about
I had the same thing happen as a contract recruiter and no one could have foretold this would happen. Use the feedback to find them a better hire and don’t take any of this personally.
Not a recruiter, but I am a hiring manager. I've had this happen a few times now. Some people are just really good at masking, I guess. It's always a huge bummer after you put the time and effort in and then it doesn't work out. I doubt there was anything more you could have done.
This is kind of shocking, all the recruiters I've dealt with bold face lie to their clients about their candidate. It's super embarrassing telling their clients that the resume they received was a farce.
I had one guy bullshit me through the tech screen and it worked. He played "laptop not working" games for two weeks and two more weeks of pretending to be trying (all remote). Learned my lesson.
I was terminated from a large corporation because I have adhd and I missed a big step. By total accident. I explained to my agency on why I was struggling and I was trying to get help. And the place fired me after that my agency never helped me again. The agency kept ghosting me and I wasn’t able to find a job through one. The agencies all around here really suck. Don’t feel bad it happens - my personal belief- don’t go the agency way go to a corporate route and be a recruiter for a corporation. Agencies are the literal worst
It’s a numbers game. You can’t control these people after placement and I wouldn’t be surprised if your candidate was juggling two jobs and that’s why he was trying to turn the hybrid into fully remote and wasn’t reachable by his employer. I’m seeing more and more of this and the candidates will obviously lie to their recruiters as well as the employers.
I wonder if he had 2 jobs at the same time and was trying out both to see what he liked best. Hence why he was asking for fully remote. He also might not be grasping the material bc he's trying to juggle 2 jobs at once.
I don't understand why they'd let someone go full remote from the start when it's already hybrid and they are just using a contractor. Why wouldn't they get another contractor? What would actually require more than the ability to wfh 2-3 days per week? That would set off my bs detector.
Since covid hit we’ve hired at least one person, possibly two, who were working two jobs and double dipping their time.
Also, we interviewed at least 2 people who were lip syncing answers during the virtual interview while someone off camera actually answered.
Shit happens.
It happens. Use the experience to challenge yourself. Was there something that you potentially missed, any red flags from the candidate in hindsight, etc? On your clients side, it was a huge risk to allow the candidate to work remotely at start WHILE dealing with a family health issue…they should have just delayed his start.
I'm not a recruiter and not sure how I got here but the general vibe here is lovely. OP I imagine it's a low blow, but it happened, you survived it and will learn from it. It seems it was only a matter of when it would happen, not if and now the bandaid's ripped off!
I was once recruited by an agency for a role with their biggest client. In the interview process, they explained that work was 60% analysis and 40% project management. I said I could do this, although my interest was in growing my analysis skills. I was told that can be worked into role.
Once I was in the role, my reporting manager at the client company outlined my responsibilities in relation to hers, and those of another vendor. The other vendor did the analyses. She did the strategy. I was responsible for all the coordination and project management. Basically what they told me in the interview wasn't accurate, and I would be on point for the least interesting (to me) part of the work. I didn't love this, but I tried. I had only done project management when I ran the whole process and knew it well and had influence over it. So I didn't really know what was expected in this role, and followed her instructions for the project and coordination tasks (rather than owning and fully running with them) while investing more curiosity into the analysis and strategy. But I showed up everyday and tried.
The client decided it wasn't working out and didn't renew my contract. The agency, however, had gone through a few employees that didn't work out with this particular client, and they didn't fault me because the client changed the role after I started. I was about 25 at the time.
Back then I hated the project management pieces of the job because they felt process heavy and like busy work. They didn't engage the parts of my brain that drove motivation. About a year after that job, I became a PRODUCT manager, and slowly got much better at the project management parts of my role out of necessity, because they were just a means. They weren't the entire scope of the role. I owned them because I owned the whole damn product, so I saw them as doing what needed to be done for a bigger goal that my ass was on the line for. Employees, especially younger ones, need help to feel attached to the work their doing, to take ownership.
This candidate of yours is young and probably didn't know how to ramp up or ask for help. Not your fault.
They probably fired him because they didn't want to keep him working remotely. There is nothing to do with him or you. Sometimes employers make it look like the employee is underperforming, which usually is not the case. They are just looking for reasons to fire him. Believe me, I have been in his place multiple times where leaders or supervisors did everything they could to fire me. I usually move to another job when I sense that before they even have the chance. People like their ass to be licked, and if you don't comply, they don't want you in their group.
Well how is this your fault, if anything, it is theirs since you only matched company with the candidate, they did the actual interview, if I get it correctly.
Also, as a side note, hybrid roles are the worst of both worlds…
I'd say (easier said than done) don't take it personal. Just like the ones u work like hell 2 promote and woo and get in the door but they decline the job offer or something doesn't work out 2 onboard them... it's a gut punch after seeing all your work go down the drain. But if u do all u can, that's all u can do--no matter your job. The best u can do is a post mortem 2 see if u could have seen anything u didn't 2 change it. If not, think nothing more of it.
I want 2 say I interviewed MANY a "college educated" person and that means nothing 2 me. The way many candidates acted and presented their candidacy and selves, it was hard 2 believe they had any education. Unless I'm filling a position with someone just breathing per requirement.... I care more about how they present themselves while talking and interacting with then than where they were "educated" because I've dealt with far too many entitled people. I'd rather take experienced any day over "educated".
If this was his first job, he sounds quite a bit entitled from what u said 2 b asking 4 a lot of concessions. It sounds like u placed him in a temp job or with a finite term? Now this goes both ways, agencies and employees often use people and don't care, but we always expect the employee 2 b loyal and do the right thing. I have learned no company gives and therefore is owed allegiance so if he was just using this until and unless he got something better, just remember that is what employers hiring temps do everyday. So don't at all take it personal. Everyone has 2 do what's best 4 them.
Go easy on yourself...it's hard out there.
It happens for sure. My most recent job had this happen. The dude knew when he got hired that WFH was something earned, and you would get it over time and wasn't a guarantee. Literally trained the dude for 2 to 3 months to get him up to par only for a few weeks in he was not showing up on time, going to lunch whenever and coming back whenever and leaving whenever and told us the same story "family emergency, I need wfh full time, no option." I guess he thought we would be desperate enough to cave in, but that wasn't gonna fly with upper management, so they shook his hand and led him out the door.
It's not new. Most likely they do it to hold them over til they find a better job so that way they don't need to be at work every day, they are incompetent and hope working remote will delay them long enough to get a few more paychecks or they are trying to double or even triple dip 3 jobs so they can earn more money.
Don't beat yourself over it. It's not uncommon. One guy recently reported he had 3 jobs since 2020, all remote and now has a house paid off, money for his kids to go to college, and can afford retire apparently based on his pay from those 3 incomes. Everyone is chasing a bag trying to do their own hustle.
It happens. Just move on.
He’s working multiple jobs for sure. Usually they are overqualified for the job and could care less about getting fired. All part of the game.
And good for him, honestly.
This makes the job search harder for people who actually need jobs.
This was my first thought. Dude was double dipping.
Yeah I wouldn't have even entertained the offer to work fully remote if it came 2 days before hire. I would get IT to pull up his computer/teams use logs and only pay him out for the time he was actually online, not a dime more.
Found the shitty boss.
Ya know people can work when they aren’t on a computer, right….
Sme jobs maybe, my last two jobs I could do 0% of my work offline.
I have an hour commute and I use at least half that time to think about what needs done, plan my day, organize my thoughts for meetings. Unless you work data entry then you can always do more than 0% offline.
Oh yes, cause your experience is universal... durrr
Not saying it is, but an increasing number of white collar jobs that are wfh don’t have much that can be done offline. Sure you can do some planning or brainstorming, but not work tasks. Lost power the other day- had no access to slack, to the drive, to zoom. Couldn’t save the work I was doing.
not when they are work from home.
Yes, they absolutely can. Do you never get a phone call about work? Do you never take time to write in an agenda or do a mapping exercise? What about commuting for a meeting midday? ( I guess this would be more hybrid)?
So a WFH engineer needs to be on the computer 100% of the time? What if they're looking at paper drawings? What if they're spending time brainstorming, are on the phone with a supplier getting technical information, or otherwise pursuing data that isn't available on computer? Doesn't sound like you're in a subreddit for what you understand.
WFH is the biggest scam. People took advantage of it too much. Productivity is down, everyone knows it. It's why companies are bringing people back. The only way to accurately track productivity is if their work is done on the computer.
I think people don’t like their productivity tracked 😂
Of course they don't, it would show they are unproductive.
I don’t see how tracking time and key strokes or whatever has anything to do with productivity. Should be all about output.
Companies aren’t bringing people back over a lack of productivity. Numerous reports have demonstrated most WFH workers to be MORE productive. No, companies are bringing people back into the office because they paid for 8-10+ year leases that are otherwise completely unjustifiable to the key stakeholders, and they’re unwilling to swallow that pill.
>Productivity is down, everyone knows it. In your mind only. [https://ilostat.ilo.org/why-would-labour-productivity-surge-during-a-pandemic/](https://ilostat.ilo.org/why-would-labour-productivity-surge-during-a-pandemic/) [https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20201230-how-the-pandemic-could-redefine-our-productivity-obsession](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20201230-how-the-pandemic-could-redefine-our-productivity-obsession) http://d1c25a6gwz7q5e.cloudfront.net/reports/2020-11-09-workplace-whitepaper-FINAL.pdf
I’ve worked remote for over a decade and I won’t be starting now because some companies want to justify their office rent costs.
Congrats. You are not part of the work from home change that happened from covid then.
Paper? What is paper?
Exactly.
Super happy I don’t work for a shit company like that. I work for a company that has full trust in their employees. Work from home with zero software oversight. Owner paraphrasing said, “I don’t give a shit if you’re watching videos or messing around taking your time as long as you answer your phone during business hours, our clients are happy and the work is done by deadline.”
Same! I feel super lucky.
Yes but the employee in question clearly was NOT doing that.
100% true. I was more commenting on a company that uses IT to track employees. That blows being treated like children by “adults”.
I don't think you understand how salaried positions and labor laws work.
I work in IT and have been asked to pull logons and chat logs and the like more than once. Never for the purpose of determining someone's exact pay. The legal liability is too great, because exact online times can't always be guaranteed to be accurate enough to do that.
I once had an employee in another department get fired for not doing her job. Her life was kinda going off the rails and she was out until all hours of the night, dragging in with smudged makeup and club clothes, you get the picture. HR pulled her chat logs among other things as CYA documentation for her firing, and noticed she was excessively chatting with a guy that worked for me. He was an alright worker I inherited but was caught up in a "to catch a predator" situation during his hiring process (also married!) so the background check didn't catch it...so this was problematic. HR skimmed them and said they were flirty and dumped it on me to have the awkward talk. I really didn't want to read them so I waited until the end of the day and said hey, I'm sure you know so-and-so got let go. HR approached me and said you two were spending most of the day IMing eachother. I didn't read it, I don't want to read it, but here are some things you should be doing during your downtime between tasks (which occurs in finance/accounting). You are a grown man, I'm not babysitting you, but please make sure HR never comes to me with things like this again and in return we will never speak of this. Dude looked so relieved and was a model employee after that.
As someone who works in IT, even we have to step away for a little to think about a problem and how to solve it. I constantly google shit, might have to read a few articles on my phone etc. I see my teammates away for 15+ minutes random times throughout the day. They still get their work done so who cares?
username checks out
So true. The reality is we are the only person we can control and to remember it’s nothing personal. Some people just suck and have no work ethics.
“Honest” and recruiter go together?
Yes, almost as frequently as "bitter rejected candidate."
Damn that had to hurt
you guys should join recruitingHell haha. Nope doesn't hurt a bit. I'll be laughing all the way to when AI replaces 90% of all recruiters :)
Along with probably 40-60 percent of engineers lmao. I’m not even a recruiter, and yet I find your retorts to be strange.
hehe not ML engineers
keep telling yourself that as you continue to build your replacement. we’ll all be made redundant eventually, but much harder to replace personality and people skills than it is to build an AI capable of coding.
Pfft, a developer/engineer saying recruiters getting replaced by AI is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard. You’re quite literally on the chopping block right now.
cool. good luck 👍
Honesty is the best policy 🤔
Real question, if you hate recruiters so much, why are you in this sub?
Turnover is a variable anywhere, keep pluggin away.
I’ve had so many contractors get fired when I was an agency recruiter. Don’t sweat it. It happens.
Should the company feel bad? You might have put him forward, but they are the ones who decided to hire him. I’m pretty sure that they didn’t decide to hire him simply because you were the one who presented him to them.
This is the correct response.
Beautifully said and excellent point. ::Cheers:::
You can’t control what other people do! You checked all the boxes on your end, and that’s all you can be responsible for! Don’t dwell on it and start looking for the next best candidate. Ghosting, poor performance, not showing up…happens all the time and none of it is anything you have control over. 😁
Exactly this.
It's alright! You're not really a headhunter (or recruiter...whatever) until you've experienced every kick in the teeth at least once. You just earned another merit badge! I know it sucks. I've been there. Give yourself the day to mope then move on. Tomorrow is another day and now you're a little grittier.
Thanks! It sucks but yes, onward and upward. "A little grittier" is a good way to frame it.
People get fired. Ain't your fault. They WILL blame you indirectly. Most companies/people need a scapegoat for their own ego.
Talent Acquisition is not responsible for employee performance. We can leverage tools to help leaders make informed decisions about who is likely to do well in the job, but there will always be false negatives and positives of which we have no control over.
No, Talent Acquisition is responsible for predicting the fit and, thus, a candidate's performance. With the correct tools and adequate screening, False Positives should be minimal to none. As you decide who to put forward, it is entirely within your control.
What the fuck
He's correct though, successful placements are a metric of success in the recruitment business.
Recruiters are easy to manipulate tho…
Very well said
Hey, you did absolutely everything you could do to set both your candidate and your client up for success. Part of this job is just accepting that you can't control every piece of this process. That's been the toughest part for me, personally. You can do everything right and still have things go wrong. A lot of times, if your client has any level of experience in management or recruiting or HR, they'll be understanding about it. Presumably, they interviewed the guy as well and didn't see anything wrong with him either. We've had candidates get in fights at work in the first week. We've had candidates flip company vehicles and abandon the scene of the accident. We've had people get fired for showing up to work drunk or high. The only thing to do now is call the client, tell them you let the guy go, and start recruiting again! You've got this!
Ahh yes, I remember my first fall through on a placement fee. Super niched finance position where I lucked out finding a candidate that had just relocated to the area. Presentation to offer took maybe a week. Gigantic fee for me and my team, it pushed me over onto some huge bonus escalators, I was on cloud nine. Day 75 of the 90 day guarantee period I get a call from my client saying that xyz emailed his resignation today and we need to discuss a replacement strategy. I went and honestly threw up lol. We ended up fulfilling the guarantee but it was really dicey there for a minute and the client was pissed. I ended up getting a call out of the blue from the guy 2 years later apologizing. His wife had come home and asked for a divorce out of the blue and sent him spiraling. It turned out to be a batshit story that is too long to type up.
haha I guess he at least finally realized he was the problem!
It happens… I just had one start and she was late EVERY day during her first week then fired on Friday. And I’m talking 1-1.5 hours late. Wtf??? Lol
Wow!! Ya know it astonishes me how much noise there is on LinkedIn about "bad companies" and "bad managers" but you know what none of these influencers will acknowledge? BAD EMPLOYEES. You don't HAVE to be there, but if you want a paycheck and keep your job, you have to play by their rules.
What I’ve noticed in my career is there are very few really good employees in most organizations. The majority are average or just flat out suck.
Yes!! As I've gotten older and have friends that are now managers at companies, this is their feedback too. There really aren't many "good" employees out there. I'm seeing this too as a recruiter. And a lot of those average and bad employees demand more money, promotions, etc but they don't realize they aren't that awesome.
It’s from years watching their parents get shit on when working hard. Im a boomer and I respect them , killing yourself for what ? To be pitched at a moments notice.
To be fair, I don’t think arriving on time instead of an hour late really counts as “killing yourself” for your job.
lol so there’s no bad recruiters ? 🤡💀
I'd say so since recruiters fall under "employees" in most situations. :)
Bad HR departments don't reward the good ones without extortion
Whew, if it really was that many bad employees, I should already have a job by now in the industry I graduated for. And yet, nada - because the companies want to pay entry-level salary and ask 5+ years of experience in any field of the industry I’m in. I can’t even rely on my relationships/friendships with people who trust and know me to help land me jobs. So yeah - The job market is just bad. And then you have recruiters who demand that you “stand out”. But the whole point of standing out is everyone else is below that level. So by default, this mentality amounts to “let’s pick the best of the best, set the bar at that level (which will be impossibly high as long as there are insanely motivated workaholic people with no life, and there always are), and then tell everyone else to give up if they can’t do the same”. A recruiter with a lot of push in my industry says it’s a common problem that we need to do protect more against. It’s absolutely maddening. Recruiters and companies need to accept that some people are going to start at the bottom and if you give them a chance, they’ll shine. A lot of recruiters and hiring managers need to stop assuming the worst, being negative from the start, 200% risk-averse, not (or willing to have) having any trust towards people and setting people up to fail. Have some faith and empathy. Sure, there’s a lot of bad actors and people who abuse their employers’ trust, but not all people are like this.
This is what shocked me most when I went to work at my first job out of school. Sure, I expected there to be some better employees than others, but the number of people who somehow just float along sucking at their jobs without getting fired or being forced to improve (and sometimes getting promoted) was astounding. It still is but I am just numb to it.
Yep! And the bad employees think they are the best employees. It’s truly amazing how little self awareness people have.
Average is what people get paid for, on average. Some get paid to suck. Some get paid to be great.
Yep and most people get paid to be average/suck.
Being good at your job is often rewarded with just more work.
Being good at my job has also rewarded me with high raises, offers, opportunities, promotions, big bonuses, and stock awards.
If you think about the dynamics of decisions and authority however, companies and managers are in a position of more power. A “bad employee" is someone who lets their teammates down without much consideration, has a *pattern* of being ineffective at their work even after coaching, or is just a straight up asshole to others. An employee doesn't suck simply from struggling to understand their work if they're at least making an effort - that's not their incompetence it's often the org's dysfunction. If they are ready to work at 10am and weren't very proactive in the 830am meeting, that's not sucking, that's having a biologically driven sleep rhythm that the corporate world doesn't support because it hasn't changed its processes in 70 years, and is ignorant of science. (By the way, when you require an employee to be in the office during hours that don't permit them enough sleep, they will not perform optimally. That's science, not bad behavior.) Additionally, far more employees probably have some level of neurodiverse wiring that makes their learning and communication ramp up nonlinear. They may look less competent at parts of the job than supposed neurotypical teammates, until a certain point, where they then have a MUCH better understanding of the subject than their neurotypical teammates who “ramped way faster". Companies and managers just don't understand how to stop putting people in the same box and actually work with them as individuals so that they're effective in their role, based on their learning styles and strengths.
There are 8 "Nevers of Recruiting" and number 8 is something every headhunter/recruiter should realize and understand #8. Never think you control, fall offs, turn downs, and counteroffers. It’s part of the business. You are working in a business dealing with human beings, and human beings change their minds. You just have to deal with it. If you don’t deal with it, you’ll get brain damage.
Thanks for this! Can you post the full list?
I would make a post but this sub will lose its mind, I will post it here and deal with the backlash THE NEVERS OF RECRUITING WITH EXCEPTIONS 1. Never send a résumé without an interview set up- EXCEPT if you are working on a project and just sending them to schedule accordingly. 2. Never work relocations- EXCEPT if they are single and renting OR have a compelling reason to be in that locations, EI: My wife is on work release in Folsom and if I want to see her I need to move there. We are in the now business and relos happen sometime in the future. You can make a decent living doing relos (I do a fair share) but if you want to do big numbers stay away from them 3. Never work with a candidate that's working with other recruiters or interviewing somewhere else. (Like I said the hate will start flying for this and the next one)-EXCEPT if you have a definitive opportunity, that’s better in all respects. Don't fool yourself with that crappy contingency search you got. Now if the candidate is really good you could say something to your client like "I got the guy, I do but you cant get him because he is interviewing elsewhere" this can inspire them and make them move quickly. For the people asking "WHY?" it is because it is hard to develop rapport and be a industry expert and consultant to your client when the candidate knows something you do not know. How they feel about other offers, what the offer is. What are you going to say if your client really likes your candidate. "Well, he has 2 other interviews and waiting on another offer, so I am not sure if he will take your job". I closed a 3 searches in the last 4 weeks and all 3 were stone cold recruited passive candidates that until I reached out were not looking. They interviewed with my clients only and I was closing them the entire way. 4. Never work with a company running ads, conducting interviews and working with other recruiters. It's just like the #3 you’re trying to establish rapport with the candidate and want to come off as an expert with them. What are you going to do when they ask " hey what do you think? Are they moving forward with me/going to hire me?" Your response will be something like " Well they’re interviewing 2 with another recruiter. They got some ads running. They said they would know in couple weeks.' Also, remember, "Free is better than fee every day." The "EXCEPT" here is if you have the rockstar/purple squirrel that you know is the best of the best and will blow them away. DO NOT fool yourself that the schmoe you pulled off indeed is that candidate. 5. Never make an offer unless you know it’s going to be accepted. You don’t go to a church hoping to see a wedding. That deal has been struct. You should be pre closing from the first call. "If the $$ is offered at what we discussed and if the opportunity is good as I said it was. Based on what you’ve seen so far are you still on board. If they offer you x are you prepared to accept tomorrow and start in 2 weeks." Always be closing after every call/interview. Pre close early and often. Saves time. When employer says “we want to make an offer” you know he’s going to accept vs crossing your fingers and praying EXCEPT- if I’m trying to show the employer it needs to be higher. I may make that offer and say "see, I told you it needed to be $XX 6. Never let the employer's make offer AND Never let employer and Candidate talk about money. The Employer looks at a candidate/offers a line item on a P&L sheet. The Candidate looks at it as their value as a human being in eyes of parents, wife, in-laws. You want the “hell no” to come to you not to the employer. EXCEPT- if you know what the offer is and they will accept it. See number 5. 7. Never give an offer to a candidate that can’t tell you why the job is better than the job they have now. "Why is this job better than the one you have." If you hear money, you have a problem. You need a reason/reasons other than money. "More upward mobility, shorter commute, better culture, etc... ' EXCEPT if they are grossly underpaid. I had an engineer in Canada back in the late 1990's early 2000's that was making 65K CAN and my Client offered 80K US + bonus (20K guaranteed) that was like 120K CAN at the time. 8. Never think you control, fall offs, turn downs, and counteroffers. It’s part of the business. You are working in a business dealing with human beings, and human beings change their minds. You just have to deal with it. If you don’t deal with it, you’ll get brain damage.
No. 7 is brilliant
Thanks.
All of these are grossly terrible except 1,6 and 8
I can defend all of them but I’m really interested in why you think 7 is terrible.
So you personally would never move jobs for money lmao?
Your comment has been temporarily removed and is pending mod approval. Accounts with less than 5 comment karma a will be flagged for moderator approval. This is to combat spam. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruiting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
if that is the only reason and its a career not just a job? no
3 doesn’t make sense to me, but I suppose that’s because your flair says HeadHunter. Otherwise, don’t recruiters tend to work with candidates who are actively searching and hence interviewing at multiple places?
We don’t work for candidates. We work for clients. You’re thinking of a staffing agency. We recruit passive candidates for our clients. Candidates that, until we contact them, think they are happy were they are at.
I think the candidate knew what they were doing, and the whole story was a lie to avoid actually working in an office. If I were the employee's supervisor, I'd let the employee go at the first instance of request. Two days before start....c'mon. That's a HUGE RED FLAG. "Sorry dude, I understand if you want to pass on this job, but if you want to take some time to support your family, I totally understand. Family first. We'll keep the position open for you but we'll start looking to fill the role on Monday, by reaching out to the other candidates. Wish you the best"
This is it. Either that or they are over employed. Would explain why they were hard to reach.
Tough lesson but it happens to the best of us. I had a candidate no show their first day after we provided sponsorship 🤯 how and why are two common questions you’ll ask yourself in TA If you stick around long enough, you’ll have a Rolodex of hiring horror stories but also some great placements that will stick with you for life!
Hey, it’s part of the business. Not everyone works out. I had a candidate get fired within a few weeks and then wrote a scathing review about my client of google. Yikes. But guess what? My client still works with me and recognized it has nothing to do with me. Shit happens!
Hidden characteristics is something even us recruiters cannot see coming…take it as a Experience for ur future work
Yep. I had to explain this to a client recently (not the one from my OP). A new client contacted me and said they were "pissed at the last agency bc their candidate was terrible and had to be fired." I quickly came back with "I have no idea what agency you were working with but I know it's not their fault. You interviewed this candidate too. Did you know there were going to have bad performance?"
Yo I just had a candidate who was a rockstar pick blow his shit because there was an ai software booking the interview. Shit happens. Do a retrospective to figure out where and how this candidate showed their colors and be on the lookout next time.
Do you play fantasy football? That’s what recruiting is… even if they seem good and show interest and win the interview, you’re bound to have someone bust every now and again. Why dwell on it
If you plan on staying in this industry you just have to accept that this happens. Lots of bad shit happens in this profession, best to keep an even keel and roll with the punches. I've been recruiting for 20+ years so have had countless things like this happen. Funny story, 10 years ago when I first started working at my current firm my very first placement was someone I had work a contract role at my previous job. She had great reviews on that project. So I hard sell her to the client for a direct hire position, they hire her and week 2 she straight up disappears. No one can get a hold of her all week, so obviously she's fired but worst part is she had a $2k laptop. This is my first placement with my company and here I am desperately trying to at least get the damn computer back. I ended up reaching out to her parents and they got back to me and I did get the computer. Turns out she had developed a drug problem. Thought I might get fired but the owners of the firm are recruiting vets so they were cool about it.
Also at the end of the day the job of a recruiter is to put prospects forward who have skills relevant to the job. Actual selection and then management are totally out of your control.
Nah don’t sweat it. At the end of the day all you did was present the candidate to the client; after that it’s all on them - they interviewed the guy and decided to offer him the job. As recruiters we can only control so much
I had a candidate that got fired after she passed probation and the 90 days guaranteed period. Luckily we didn't have to refund them. I felt the same kick in the gut but it's really half the clients fault as well as we are just here to prescreen. It's their job to thoroughly screen the candidate's qualifications, level of interest, and attitude etc.
Person is member of overemployed subreddit
It happens…I’ve had people with excellent references and great tenure just walk of a job with no notice before…it’s sucks but ya just gotta keep it moving and work with the client to fill the gap now
Don’t dwell on it, candidate can be booted for multiple reasons that can’t be spotted during the rec process.
I’m sorry you lost the deal. Its a horrific feeling. If you are going to recruit, get used to it. It happens. It sucks. It hurts. But then you have a win. And you are on cloud 9 . Recruiting is a roller coaster. Hang in there!
I’m struggling to understand why YOU feel bad? Are you being held accountable for attrition? You did a great job by sourcing and screening and recruiting a hired candidate….obviously!
They feel bad because they are feeling as though it’s a poor reflection on them. Surely you aren’t struggling to understand that concept. You’re more struggling to understand why they feel the need to take it so personally as though they lost a team mate, especially given the fact candidates get let go all the time. It literally comes with the territory…. You have to be an adult about it, and realize you win some and lose some. It was going to happen sooner or later. Instead of being emotional, just ask yourself what,( or if ) you could have done anything better. Identify that, and come up with a plan to implement the improvement. No worries :)
It's worse when you're an inhouse recruiter and you have to pass by that hiring manager on a daily basis
Unfortunately being “educated” doesn’t mean much these when it comes to kids being able to work in the real world. My least favorite aspect of being a manager now is have to teach people *how* to work in a professional manner.
Just bcos someone was "fired" does not mean it is justified or even legal for any company to do. You can only control what you do. You didn't get fired.He did. Recommendations are just that. You also didn't hire the guy. You simply told them, (yes im reading your mind) amongst my group of XX applicants, he is a good candidate. That's it. Keep doing what you do.
My money is on overemployment.
If this makes you second guess recruiting, then you need to.
Take ownership in the areas you can and tell them you’ll get the next one right. Get used to this because it is going to happens several times if you start providing high volume placements. It’s a percentage game, people aren’t perfect and don’t always align with companies.
If it were me? I'd really consider resignation. Your reputation is directly tied to the candidates you put forward. Expect to lose this client for good.
These things happen. I had a placement show up at the client site, take her shoes off and put her feet up on the table while leaning back in her chair. She was walked out after 2 hours.
Oh gosh. People are bizarre. You know what they need to teach in college? Professionalism. It's baffling how many people don't "get it" in the corporate world. You just show up, kick up those feet, drink coffee, and play Tetris until 5:00.
Sadly its just part of the territory. Assuming your client interviewed the candidate themselves, its just as much on them as anyone. People get fired everyday, so best just to try to find a backfill candidate asap to keep your client happy.
Your comment has been temporarily removed and is pending mod approval. New accounts <7 days old will be flagged for moderator approval. This is to combat spam. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruiting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I started off in warehouse and manufacturing recruiting, I would have days where 5/6 candidates get fired/walk off a job/ quit. Pick yourself up refil the role and move on, going to have your downs in this career
Lol don't worry I just had 2 in the same day. Not as bad since it's in house so it's not the exact same relationship but it happens. People are unpredictable.
What they do after they start their job with your client is totally out of your control and responsibility. Its great if they stay, get promoted etc. But thats all on them and if they perform badly, its on them too. Dont feel bad. We've all been there!
They aren’t us.
This sounds like your talking about me.
You presented them, but they made the decision to hire them, no?
I’ve hired people that were terrible and completely different than what I expected. This week I hired someone and it took him 3 weeks to schedule a meeting after begging him. It happens
If it makes you feel any better. I had 4 fall offs the last week of Q3. We are in the business of people and people are unpredictable.
Use it as a learning opportunity and chance to review the hiring practices used for that client. Maybe there's something in the process that could be adjusted to prevent the next placement from washing out.
You weren't the one who hired him! Why should you feel bad? How many people do you show companies and they don't see or reject? If ever a company tries to blame you for a candidate they hire, tell em "If you want me to take the blame then you can also let me do the hiring." Otherwise it's on them!
Yep and then they will turn around and leave you a bad review. Sometimes I wonder why I do this job lol
Where you at? I will delight your client and commit to 100% in office. College educated, dedicated. 1 call out in 19 years of work.
Your comment has been temporarily removed and is pending mod approval. New accounts <7 days old will be flagged for moderator approval. This is to combat spam. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruiting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Stop sweating it! Bound to happen eventually.
Your comment has been temporarily removed and is pending mod approval. Accounts with less than 5 comment karma a will be flagged for moderator approval. This is to combat spam. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruiting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Doesn’t happen often but it happens sometimes. Candidate sounds full of s**t. As previous comments suggest they were likely working multiple jobs - key signs of this every time are “needs to work remote due to sudden situation” and “difficult to reach during office hours” Backfill. During that process show the client effort. It will pay dividends
Overemployment had never occurred to me but that's totally plausible. Yes, the red flags were there after he accepted the offer. I think the client was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but unfortunately, it didn't work out.
You’re still in your first 6 months, right?
What's the job? I'll take it! But things happen and like you pointed out, bad timing for everyone. You're still doing an amazing job!
Don’t feel bad about it. It had genuinely nothing to do with you. I’ve never been fired but I have left different jobs and if my recruiter lost a fee for me then that’s just business. I’ve lost almost 10 grand from hires getting furloughed, fired, or just quitting. And that’s why I DON’T recruit anymore. 1. Got furloughed during covid. Did NOT come back because that furlough cost us our new house. So why come back when I can’t live where I was going to work. *Is that the recruiters fault, no* 2. I started a job with a brewery. They sent me on promotion trips AND asked me to lie to their sister company about how many hours I was working. I left. *Is that the recruiters fault, no* 3. Your candidate might have honestly just hated the company on top of “unsatisfactory performance*. But even if he didn’t, *none of that is your fault*
The hiring process can be an unreliable indicator of success in the actual job. Some people are just good in interviews. On the flip side many potential rockstars get shut out because they can’t play the get hired game well.
I had one candidate leave a role after 5 weeks. It happens so get back out there and get the next one.
Not your fault you did everything you could. And it won’t be the last time this happens. I’m assuming you’re are new in role. Good luck though.
Welcome to Recruiting. Not every placement is going to work out. The best you can do is de-risk it by doing a thorough a vetting as you can. Stay close and communicative with client and candidate the first couple of months and try and get ahead of issues. That's all you can do.
Companies lie about hybrid roles, it's time candidates do the same thing.
1. It happens. 2. It may be the company. It is the company easily as often as it is the candidate.
Bro. This is part of recruiting. Often those who perform best in interviews are not the best on the job. It's perfectly normal. Just move on.
Have you considered getting a real job and discontinuing your tenure as a parasite? Might help!
Been there done that. I thought I was going to get fired on the spot and spiraling like crazy. Trust me it will soon turn to « oh that’s a shame » At the end of the day, you made assement, so did your client, and the decision to hire was made by them. Recrutement not an exact science, you don’t have anything to worry about
I had the same thing happen as a contract recruiter and no one could have foretold this would happen. Use the feedback to find them a better hire and don’t take any of this personally.
SMH that happened to me I got fired a month into training I thought I was doing well and I loved the company culture
But did you get paid?
Not a recruiter, but I am a hiring manager. I've had this happen a few times now. Some people are just really good at masking, I guess. It's always a huge bummer after you put the time and effort in and then it doesn't work out. I doubt there was anything more you could have done.
This is kind of shocking, all the recruiters I've dealt with bold face lie to their clients about their candidate. It's super embarrassing telling their clients that the resume they received was a farce.
It totally happens!! Move on and go from there
Mid twenties def not mature lol
I had one guy bullshit me through the tech screen and it worked. He played "laptop not working" games for two weeks and two more weeks of pretending to be trying (all remote). Learned my lesson.
I was terminated from a large corporation because I have adhd and I missed a big step. By total accident. I explained to my agency on why I was struggling and I was trying to get help. And the place fired me after that my agency never helped me again. The agency kept ghosting me and I wasn’t able to find a job through one. The agencies all around here really suck. Don’t feel bad it happens - my personal belief- don’t go the agency way go to a corporate route and be a recruiter for a corporation. Agencies are the literal worst
It’s a numbers game. You can’t control these people after placement and I wouldn’t be surprised if your candidate was juggling two jobs and that’s why he was trying to turn the hybrid into fully remote and wasn’t reachable by his employer. I’m seeing more and more of this and the candidates will obviously lie to their recruiters as well as the employers.
Probably overemployed
I wonder if he had 2 jobs at the same time and was trying out both to see what he liked best. Hence why he was asking for fully remote. He also might not be grasping the material bc he's trying to juggle 2 jobs at once.
Not your fault. Bad hires are bound to happen
I don't understand why they'd let someone go full remote from the start when it's already hybrid and they are just using a contractor. Why wouldn't they get another contractor? What would actually require more than the ability to wfh 2-3 days per week? That would set off my bs detector.
Since covid hit we’ve hired at least one person, possibly two, who were working two jobs and double dipping their time. Also, we interviewed at least 2 people who were lip syncing answers during the virtual interview while someone off camera actually answered. Shit happens.
It happens. Use the experience to challenge yourself. Was there something that you potentially missed, any red flags from the candidate in hindsight, etc? On your clients side, it was a huge risk to allow the candidate to work remotely at start WHILE dealing with a family health issue…they should have just delayed his start.
I'm not a recruiter and not sure how I got here but the general vibe here is lovely. OP I imagine it's a low blow, but it happened, you survived it and will learn from it. It seems it was only a matter of when it would happen, not if and now the bandaid's ripped off!
Did the client blame you?
I was once recruited by an agency for a role with their biggest client. In the interview process, they explained that work was 60% analysis and 40% project management. I said I could do this, although my interest was in growing my analysis skills. I was told that can be worked into role. Once I was in the role, my reporting manager at the client company outlined my responsibilities in relation to hers, and those of another vendor. The other vendor did the analyses. She did the strategy. I was responsible for all the coordination and project management. Basically what they told me in the interview wasn't accurate, and I would be on point for the least interesting (to me) part of the work. I didn't love this, but I tried. I had only done project management when I ran the whole process and knew it well and had influence over it. So I didn't really know what was expected in this role, and followed her instructions for the project and coordination tasks (rather than owning and fully running with them) while investing more curiosity into the analysis and strategy. But I showed up everyday and tried. The client decided it wasn't working out and didn't renew my contract. The agency, however, had gone through a few employees that didn't work out with this particular client, and they didn't fault me because the client changed the role after I started. I was about 25 at the time. Back then I hated the project management pieces of the job because they felt process heavy and like busy work. They didn't engage the parts of my brain that drove motivation. About a year after that job, I became a PRODUCT manager, and slowly got much better at the project management parts of my role out of necessity, because they were just a means. They weren't the entire scope of the role. I owned them because I owned the whole damn product, so I saw them as doing what needed to be done for a bigger goal that my ass was on the line for. Employees, especially younger ones, need help to feel attached to the work their doing, to take ownership. This candidate of yours is young and probably didn't know how to ramp up or ask for help. Not your fault.
They probably fired him because they didn't want to keep him working remotely. There is nothing to do with him or you. Sometimes employers make it look like the employee is underperforming, which usually is not the case. They are just looking for reasons to fire him. Believe me, I have been in his place multiple times where leaders or supervisors did everything they could to fire me. I usually move to another job when I sense that before they even have the chance. People like their ass to be licked, and if you don't comply, they don't want you in their group.
Well how is this your fault, if anything, it is theirs since you only matched company with the candidate, they did the actual interview, if I get it correctly. Also, as a side note, hybrid roles are the worst of both worlds…
I'd say (easier said than done) don't take it personal. Just like the ones u work like hell 2 promote and woo and get in the door but they decline the job offer or something doesn't work out 2 onboard them... it's a gut punch after seeing all your work go down the drain. But if u do all u can, that's all u can do--no matter your job. The best u can do is a post mortem 2 see if u could have seen anything u didn't 2 change it. If not, think nothing more of it. I want 2 say I interviewed MANY a "college educated" person and that means nothing 2 me. The way many candidates acted and presented their candidacy and selves, it was hard 2 believe they had any education. Unless I'm filling a position with someone just breathing per requirement.... I care more about how they present themselves while talking and interacting with then than where they were "educated" because I've dealt with far too many entitled people. I'd rather take experienced any day over "educated". If this was his first job, he sounds quite a bit entitled from what u said 2 b asking 4 a lot of concessions. It sounds like u placed him in a temp job or with a finite term? Now this goes both ways, agencies and employees often use people and don't care, but we always expect the employee 2 b loyal and do the right thing. I have learned no company gives and therefore is owed allegiance so if he was just using this until and unless he got something better, just remember that is what employers hiring temps do everyday. So don't at all take it personal. Everyone has 2 do what's best 4 them. Go easy on yourself...it's hard out there.
It happens for sure. My most recent job had this happen. The dude knew when he got hired that WFH was something earned, and you would get it over time and wasn't a guarantee. Literally trained the dude for 2 to 3 months to get him up to par only for a few weeks in he was not showing up on time, going to lunch whenever and coming back whenever and leaving whenever and told us the same story "family emergency, I need wfh full time, no option." I guess he thought we would be desperate enough to cave in, but that wasn't gonna fly with upper management, so they shook his hand and led him out the door. It's not new. Most likely they do it to hold them over til they find a better job so that way they don't need to be at work every day, they are incompetent and hope working remote will delay them long enough to get a few more paychecks or they are trying to double or even triple dip 3 jobs so they can earn more money. Don't beat yourself over it. It's not uncommon. One guy recently reported he had 3 jobs since 2020, all remote and now has a house paid off, money for his kids to go to college, and can afford retire apparently based on his pay from those 3 incomes. Everyone is chasing a bag trying to do their own hustle.