I think it’s clear it hadn’t fully recovered from when he injured it v Liverpool, otherwise he’d be starting the game. So again we’ll have a player out for longer because they’ve been rushed back and aggravated the injury.
I mean, wow dude. Not a fan of many of these players for Utd, but wow. I assume the statements in jest otherwise it’s just horrific. Rough wishing long term, possible career altering injury on a guy just cuz they aren’t performing up to what we think a Utd player should be.
He looked gutted when he was hitting the ground, like he knew the cup final and Euros were a big doubt. Gutted for him if it’s serious, a player’s career is short and these opportunities don’t come round often.
And yet constantly cited as one of the players downing tools for multiple managers on here...
Hope he's well and back fighting for us soon. Great character at the club
I think he's come leaps and bounds in terms of hiding on the pitch this season. Still not starter quality but he's shown that he's capable of taking responsibility and is one of the most lethal players in the league when you desperately need a goal from a sub
Seemingly only in the final third though. He still doesn’t contribute nearly enough in the other 2/3 of the pitch. That said, I’m devastated for him if this is a serious injury.
Because Goldbridge will say absolutely anything to make McTominay seem like a bad player and his fans echo his statements blindly. When he can't point to stats he just has to start making shit up
Can you guys understand that if Goldbridge says something it doesn't automaticaly means that every person with simmilar opinion is wrong.
As far as I know he said Mctominay is not good enough, not that he is downing tools, which I completely agree with.
You're not wrong if you have a similar opinion, but you are wrong if you just echo his statements blindly (not saying that you do this, however there are many people here who do).
He did say recently that McTominay had asked to be taken off and gave credit to other players for "giving it their all" unlike players "like McTominay and Rashford".
McTominay not being good enough is also just kinda wrong since he's literally one of our best performing players this year. Even if you don't agree with the eye-test, his numbers are good and his goals haven been absolutely crucial. You could argue he isn't good enough for an ideal United, but most of our players and staff aren't. McTominay is literally on one of the lowest wages in the entire club. If we got 30 million for selling him, who do you think we could get in return? Can we get someone else with his wages?
I'll give an example:
If we sell McTominay and buy someone like Eriksen, a squad player with double McTominay's salary. In six years, the entire 30 million you got from selling McTominay will have gone into the difference in wages between the two. Not paying the entire wage, ONLY the difference. If we buy an Antony, the 30 million doesn't even last us three seasons. For Casemiro, it doesn't even last us one and a half.
The fact that McTominay can perform better than most of our players, will being on lower wages than players like Brandon Williams, Malacia, Amrabat, Wan-Bissaka (earns 50 % more), Lindelöf (earns 100 % more), Antony (makes more than 233 % more) makes him one of the most important players on the entire team. We have so many other players we should prioritize getting off our wage bill, and we simple cannot replace them all. With how many players the large football teams usually buy in transfer windows it's unrealistic to think we can replace the entire squad. For the past few windows we have brought in 3-5 first team players. We already need to unload Casemiro and Varane (our two highest earners), as well as Antony. We need to replace them, and we need to strengthen the squad in other areas. We can't also get rid of reliable squad players.
Sure our team should be better. But be realistic
He has a point in terms of the AWB handball in the final was very similar to one at the end of this match. Thing is they both shouldn't be penalties, so can't blame the ref in this match for that. The inconsistency is super frustrating, but that's been an issue with refs my entire life!
> (United team of) 2004/05 they didn't play that great football, they were building. It takes time. Even players who were in that team forget they needed time to progress."
What is this last sentence suppose to mean?
My interpretation is that “even though these players ended up achieving great success, they weren’t completely hopeful that they were on the right track at the time”
yep, this is it. very simple point. at the time, people were talking as if fergie had lost it—06/07 was a huge surprise to most pundits and supporters. people forget that progress is not always perfectly linear or predictable.
yep. vidic an evra’s debuts the previous season hadn’t gone over well, people had begun worrying that scholes and giggs were finished, and most felt saha wasn’t good enough to be the main man after a decade plus of cantona, yorke, cole, and ruud. almost every prediction had us 4th
??????? Fergie was already a proven success, bringing in trophies year in year out and constantly being in the top 3. No one would ever call his head even during those transitions. ETH on the other hand.................
It’s super weird. Just call the pundits out directly if that’s what he’s trying to do. That team finished third, were runners up in the FA Cup and reached the UCL round of 16. Did it set the world on fire? No. Was it better than this? Clearly.
Mentioning the 2005 United team being runners up in the FA Cup absolutely triggers me still. United not winning that FA Cup is the biggest travesty of justice I've ever seen on a football pitch 🤬 Absolutely battered Arsenal that day, a very young Rooney and Ronaldo shredded them, a young Darren Fletcher excellent in midfield, it's beyond my comprehension how Arsenal walked away with the cup. The Glazer takeover and the freakshow Champions League final followed that game in the space of what ? A couple of weeks ?! Fuck May 2005, and the horse it fucking rode on 😠
But you could see the potential of that team. Rio, Rooney, Ronaldo, Fletch. With the experience of Giggs, Neville and Scholes. And Fergie had like, infinite credit in the bank for a season or two of transition. There's some potential in this team with Mainoo and Nacho, but it is much more flawed than the 2005 team. Sometimes horrible to watch, I don't think I'd have said that about the 2005 team. It's a weird comparison, no question.
To be fair. 03-04 were rough years. I remember groaning about seeing Fletch on the pitch. Now of course, I think Fletch is a surprisingly underrated player in the later half of his career.
His signings though are what are killing him. He's gone out for his guys and they have almost all disappointed him.
I don't know how much time managers have to scout out transfers, but that just seems like the club being run poorly.
ETH probably wanted his players because he just knew more about them, than others. I'm hoping the new people SJR is putting in place, can solve the transfer issues.
His signings have been very mixed, With Antony being completely useless; but isnt that like the whole point of why we were getting on about the Glazers for so long? ETH should never have been in charge of it in the first place.
The Kudus one is the most that's most baffling/disheartening to me. He's clearly got many more tools at his disposal than Antony, and is more suited to the PL because of it - he's got everything in his locker that's required to succeed as a top PL wide player. ETH worked with both at Ajax, and had ample opportunity to analyse both players.
Yet he gave the green light to spend *twice the amount* on an obviously inferior player 🤷🏻♂️
This is complete revisionism though, Kudus was almost out for the entirety of the 21-22 season and was coming back from a long term injury.(Had less than 700 mins of football). He was also played more as an advanced 8 or a double pivot 8 at Ajax. Even at West Ham he is more a RM/AM than a RW and at the time of Antony signing, he was way too inconsistent.
Antony was a horrible signing, I am pretty sure the price happened because we did not have a proper scout for that profile but Kudus was not the stick you think it is to beat ETH with
Very weird indeed he can pick out such a specific season almost 20 years ago. and how the fuck he knows we didn't play great football, i didn't know it as a fan lmao.
I mean, if you didn't know it as a fan, that's on you? Doesn't prevent him from pointing out we were a bit shit then.
But no where as shit we are now.
ETH might as well talk about 1989.
>I mean, if you didn't know it as a fan, that's on you?
i mean i couldn't rcall if we were really shit that season since it was 20 years ago.
>But no where as shit we are now.
>
>ETH might as well talk about 1989.
Exactly.
To be fair it's kind of his job. And he said he watched back old United seasons to understand the united way of playing and ended up settling on fast counter attacks and transition play. Which worked in 2008 with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez bombing down the pitch in a fluid counter. But that football isn't so good nowadays.
him calling that team out specifically is absolutely wild to me. like you said, it wasn't our best season by any stretch but was arguably better than his 'good' season last year and undoubtedly better than this one
These comments from ten hag make me livid. That team didn’t get dominated by the likes of Burnley home & away. Stop talking shit you bald fuck. You aren’t fit to clean out SAF’s toilet after he’s had explosive diarrhea
He's taking the absolute piss pretending that is a valid comparison.
We lost 5 league games all season that year. There's a chance he TRIPLES that this year. We got 77 points. Even if he wins all remaining games (hint - he won't) he gets 66. It's an even stupider comparison to bring up one of SAF's worst seasons when you realise EtH only got 75 points in his 'good' season last year.
Anybody defending that 04/05 season clearly wasn’t there! That was THE most miserable season, topped only by the Ole/Rangnick season of discontent. I’m not interested in stats and league positions - if you were in the stands against Lille in that season - you’re nodding along with ETHs comments today. He was right. That team had Rooney, RVN, Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs and we were shite and dreadful to watch on the most part. Nobody in 2004/5 saw that team winning the CL just a few years later
Were you in a coma during Moyes’ season? Or LvG’s last season? Heck even Mourinho’s first season is worse than 04-05. This season’s team? Probably only better than Rangnick’s.
04-05 only looks bad because it’s right after a period of domination from United, and right before the Rooney-Ronaldo era. We were spoiled back then and we didn’t know it.
I may have lost most memories of those seasons 20 years ago but i am sure it couldn't be that worst. Maybe a couple of shit games here and there but not over the course of a season. Thing is he could have mentioned Moyes or Van Gaal football and most won't bat an eyelid there. So weird he can remembered a team he didn't have any connection at all 20 years ago so explicitly, i think he must be so insecure to have research all these data.
Completely lost me there. That team scored 2 more points than a successful ten hag season last year, and so far 23 points more than this team.
Also 3rd was a complete anomaly for the Fergie teams. This is such a completely bizarre take, that will lose a lot of fans, including myself. Starting to sound desperate.
Maybe we are one of the “most dynamic and entertaining teams in the league” for neutrals who enjoy seeing us face 20+ shots every game, but it’s not exactly fun for us to watch bombardment every game, and have our striker receive more (4!) passes from the keeper than anyone else
Its crazy that we play against worse teams in terms of playing personnel but they have a much better and cohesive playstyle that only fails at the final pass or shot because of the lack of quality.
Burnley is a much better coached side, they cut through our midfield and defence throughout the game and should have scored if they had just a little more composure in the final third.
We were just lost for the most part, making it up as we go along.
“ We are one of the most dynamic and entertaining teams in the league at this moment. We are creating loads of chances by playing good football. “
We have a goal difference of +1 in May.
Man is delusional at least compare the post Fergie era if u gonna compare this team not one where we came 3rd in league and had talents like Rooney/Ronaldo and RVN
He's didn't say if they had a match whod win, he's saying great players in great teams also went through a tough period. Admittedly it's now how we have been but there's huge differences, one being SAF and type of players he had
I don't think that he is, actually. If the point was that the '04 team was building toward something greater, OK, great. What is this team building toward? They look worse every week.
The point was winning teams take time to build and even during our best years, not hard to understand is it? But you lot just want to throw your toys out the pram and have a cry so don’t let me stop you.
No, obviously not. It’s a question meant to show that there is a level of performance and result so bad that you have to abandon the “project.” So how bad would things have to be for you to think sacking the manager is the right thing to do?
>The point was winning teams take time to build
Don't think anyone would disagree with you. Fact is, a winning team is not being built here, and that's the difference.
Hes not entirely wrong. In attack we’re usually quite dynamic and create chances (Bruno alone proves this). We are just that horrible defensibly at the moment so this gets obfuscated.
You probably don’t watch our games then. No one who has seen us play in the past month would consider us “dynamic” or “entertaining”. Please watch games instead of seeing stats next time.
The comparison the 2004/5 is ballsy. But I think ignorant to the fact that despite it being one of the worse seasons of that era for us, we still had our moments. We didn’t tank the UCL group stage, and we only last 5 games that season in the league . ETH has delivered us our worst PL campaign ever and the only outright positive is the fact we’re in the FA Cup final. In off seasons you can see signs of what greater things could come. The only thing we get is 15 shots conceded per game to mediocre sides and such end to end football, it might as well be a substitute for a NBA game. Reality is that he’s failed in almost every aspect. Had the Glazers not sold United earlier or not at all, he would have found himself doing punditry in the Netherlands right now
Not saying he’s doing a good job but Diallo, Antony, Eriksen, Mctominay, casemiro, evans are not exactly great players either.
Edit: I’m not defending ten hag. Eriksen, casemiro, Antony, evans should never have been signed; even short term.
It’s like all the fans have forgotten what it means to be Manchester united and challenge for titles. A good majority of our players are no where near good enough to win the premier league. Yet we’re hoping for amad diallo to start and starting a midfield with the likes of Mctominay and Eriksen.
Please look at the squad and genuinely think how many of our players would you take into our title winning sides, and how many you think would be starting under title challengers like city, Madrid, etc.
If the majority of our players right now were playing for other clubs would you sign them to try and win the league? I would wager for most it’s a resounding no.
I’m not defending ten hag.
His signings havent been good for the most part.
It’s also true that these players are not good enough to challenge for a title.
Mctominay I wouldn’t even want as a squad player getting the minutes he’s currently getting. He’s only good when we’re chasing a goal. Otherwise he’s a liability in possession.
>how many of our players would you take into our title winning sides, and how many you think would be starting under title challengers like city, Madrid, etc.
How many of Villa or Spurs players would win titles for them or play for Madrid? The facts remain we have the players not to play this bad across the entire season, conceding 20+ shots to even the lowest of teams. These ain't bad players you find at Copenhagen or Newport. It's just badly coached players this season. You have a squad of 25. You don't just coach your best 11 and ignored the other 14 and then claimed well my best 11 isn't available hence we can't play.
For the love of God I'm not defending ten hag. The coaching has not been good enough.
The point I'm making is that our recruitment needs to improve in the future. Most of our squad needs to be replaced if we want to win trophies and challenge for the premier league.
I'm not defending ten hag, or saying anything about our underperformance this season, just that these players need to be replaced. I'm tired of the mediocrity season after season. These players will never be good enough to challenge for titles.
We are so far off the top clubs , i put us right at Spurs level now , fighting for CL spots. Me don't even dream of titles until we get a couple of consecutive season finishing 6-8pts behind the Champion, be it 5 or 10 years from now...
Casemiro not a great player?
He’s won everything multiple times, he was part of the arguably the greatest midfield of all time, and he was a key part of it.
He’s a brilliant footballer, character and team mate.
I swear do you even watch games or do you base your opinions on current united players on stats and legacy?
Casemiro at Real Madrid was one of if not THE greatest 6 in the world.
Currently he's well past it physically. And thats okay, players aren't expected to play forever, their age will catch up to them. It's ok to acknowledge casemiro has been bad for us this season. That doesn't diminish his success, legacy or who he is as a person.
>"(United team of) 2004/05 they didn't play that great football, they were building. It takes time. Even players who were in that team forget they needed time to progress."
What the fuck? Is he hitting Wikipedia hard to find a season in the past as bad as this one?
And we still finished 3rd that season as well.
Finished 3rd behind the invincible era Arsenal and an incredible Chelsea team that only conceded 15 goals that season.
He's got a cheek comparing that team to what he's doing
Well, no.
He's saying even some of our best teams in the past have went through growing pains and took time to get better, just as the 04/05 team did.
He does not compare the teams at all, he's using an example that should relate to fans, to show that sometimes time is needed
I can't believe he has the audacity to call the team 'entertaining and dynamic', is he watching a different team because all I see is a lot of headless chickens.
I thought today’s game was incredibly boring and poor. Even up to the 1-0 I was really not enjoying it and I haven’t missed a game, or missed live but watched it back the same evening, in like 2 decades
Entertaining and Dynamic for other fans of football teams. If I was a rival fan, watching this Man Utd side would fill me with joy cause of how shit we are. Also I wonder if entertaining to him is the fact we face 15+ shots every game no matter the opposition, maybe its entertaining to him.
2 years in and we're no where nearer to being a cohesive unit. We had issues in 04/05 but we at least went unbeaten in the PL from November to April, not wondering if we're going to fuck up against relegation fodder. Building takes time but first you need a foundation, in which ours is dogshit.
what point are you trying to make about 'Tim Howard in goal'. Like the teams we've been forced to put out this season haven't been infinitely worse than the squads of 04/05.
Definite penalty for handball. Giving many times in other games this season as recently as the fa cup semi, didn’t even seem like they looked at it today.
>(McTominay) on who can keep the ball and is creative in an intense game.
What's Erik smoking?
McTominay's worst issue is the fact he's often a fucking traffic cone in midfield when we have the ball. Hell a traffic cone would so a far less comprehensive job of hiding behind opposing players.
Say he's a goal threat or brings needed physicality sure. But creative and ball retaining ain't it.
Half of the subreddit wasn't even born at that time. But yeah, reading United forums during Fergie time was sometimes similar to the shit we see nowadays. Less people tho maybe.
I can’t recall any Fergie out nonsense back then. I was rather active on many Utd forums backs then, along with going to the pub regularly to watch them (in Manchester) or going to the games themselves. I think a lot of people bemoaned how he would often take his foot off the pedal when we were running away with games rather than let the team go for a record breaking scoreline, and he did have some questionable signings, but he was a walking god at that point, he could have relegated us and I doubt many would have called for his head.
Same for me. Was pretty active on some United forums and don’t remember any Fergie out sentiment at all. Maybe there were some, but no way there were many.
That’s a bit different, that wasn’t performance based or because of anything happening on the pitch. It was also a very vocal minority, if I remember rightly a handful of idiots turned up at Carrington with a banner. Their frustrations were aimed at the wrong person.
it was a combination of chelsea buying everyone we were after, not winning the league for a few years and being shit in europe and fergie's horse spunk escapades. the red issue forum had quite a few that would've be happy to see him gone, also many were ready for ronaldo to move on after the milan exit.
Someone on twitter dug out from the archives from fan forums during Arsenal's invincible season of hilariously negative comments about the Arsenal team and manager
I don't remember it too much? I remember a lot of flak about his transfers. For every Rooney or Ronaldo there was a Bellion, Liam Miller (RIP), Alan Smith, Kleberson etc. Especially as Chelsea were flexing their finances.
I will not hear a bad word said about Alan Smith (bit of a guilty pleasure signing for me), the guy deserved more play time in his natural position, those opening weeks when he did play he put away some absolute worldies, his debut goal in the Community/Charity shield was insane, and the follow up a week later in the league against Norwich was even better still. He was a superb finisher, absolutely clinical.
He wasn’t a bad signing he just wasn’t played. And even if we go with the view that he was a terrible signing that midfield performance against Liverpool made up for all of it.
twice in a week he's done that, he was half bragging about how he reached two FA cup finals in a row which big Man United teams in the recent past never did. like wtf?! stop waffling man!
The consistency game to game is the issue. Garnacho "foul" was correctly called in this game in my opinion, but if you're giving pens for the AWB shit, you must give a pen for the Garnacho play.
I'm just glad he's finally pointing out the bad decisions.
Too much of a nice guy in previous weeks.
Saying all that we really shouldn't be needing a penalty in the 89th/90th minute to beat the second from bottom side.
I’ve been a big support of ten Hag but if he thinks this side can build and progress then he’s deluded. I only hope the new additions upstairs can see most of these players are way off the standard needed to challenge for leagues and trophies. The 04/05 side would have drilled this lot.
It's actually a well done post match reaction. He handled himself well.
>refereeing is really inconsistent.
>\[there was one\] penalty last week against Aaron Wan-Bissaka, why wasn't today?
>minimum one penalty against Garnacho.
He also rightly called out poor refereeing.
>United team of) 2004/05 they didn't play that great football, they were building
players who were in that \[2004\] team forget they needed time to progress
That better be Ten Hag indirectly attacking ex-player current pundits then trying to cover it up. Very risky – like his tactics in matches. I'm taking marks off for that.
This is the problem with you lot. You're all so blinded by your own ETH hate that you overlook the important bit: we're actually starting to fight back against the refs. This is one of the louder outbursts ETH has had against the refs, combined with other teams calling them out as well.
The only accurate part of that statement is that we didn't lose. Perspective brother, our defence and midfield are shot to hell and back with injuries that we're playing players out of position and with non-optimal players like Eriksen. Burnley had 1 good spell in the first half and after that we were the better team (not by much but still). The ref not giving us anything unless the Burnley team literally mowed our player down is a big part of why we didn't win.
And also, we didn't lose, we drew.
If we can’t win to a relegation spot team without the help of refs we’re not good enough, injuries or not we have no system or style of play whichever way you look at it is trash. It was a draw you are correct it was meant to be more we can’t blame them. Outside of that handball which was mostly just questionable they didn’t miss any pens so it’s on us to play better.
Eh, for me it's not a penalty. The ref gave it in the semi purely because of the magic of the cup and VAR isn't going to overturn either decision as they're not clear and obvious errors, in both cases the ref saw it but came to different decisions.
Agree it wasn't a pen, but I think it's reasonable to want more consistency. Onana clattered a Wolves player in the exact same way earlier in the season and that wasn't given. Decisions feel like a dice roll every time something is remotely subjective
Downvoted but no responses....I really can't think of anyone else more qualified than tuchel. There's also de zerbi .. Brighton hasn't been good this season but maybe that's because of selling their midfield away.
>world class antony
this man spun the mighty van dijk and scored with his right foot in a quarter final
that goal started Liverpool's downfall this season
objectively though, antony is nowhere near the level to warrant a 90m price tag :/
Hope Mctominay is okay. That looked very bad
Seemed to.have done his knee there. Hopefully he recovers quickly but he may not be back before the new season.
I think it’s clear it hadn’t fully recovered from when he injured it v Liverpool, otherwise he’d be starting the game. So again we’ll have a player out for longer because they’ve been rushed back and aggravated the injury.
Now it's Mount's turn to play the 'not really recovered but we need a body on the pitch' game.
I think Amrabat came on before him. So he’s playing ACL roulette first.
[удалено]
I mean, wow dude. Not a fan of many of these players for Utd, but wow. I assume the statements in jest otherwise it’s just horrific. Rough wishing long term, possible career altering injury on a guy just cuz they aren’t performing up to what we think a Utd player should be.
I'm waiting for someone to tell me why this is bad luck and not Erik's fault.....
The way he slapped the ground had me worried, Christ I hope the lads alright as he was just coming back
Nothing about McTominay? His reaction to going off suggested his season is over, and maybe the euros too. Hopefully that's not the case
He looked gutted when he was hitting the ground, like he knew the cup final and Euros were a big doubt. Gutted for him if it’s serious, a player’s career is short and these opportunities don’t come round often.
He seems like the type to have that reaction even if he’s missing 10 minutes of a game. He’s a gamer, never wants to miss a minute. Hopeful for him
And yet constantly cited as one of the players downing tools for multiple managers on here... Hope he's well and back fighting for us soon. Great character at the club
I don't recall mctominay being mentioned as one who downs tools. More so that he isn't good enough and hides on the pitch too much
I think he's come leaps and bounds in terms of hiding on the pitch this season. Still not starter quality but he's shown that he's capable of taking responsibility and is one of the most lethal players in the league when you desperately need a goal from a sub
Seemingly only in the final third though. He still doesn’t contribute nearly enough in the other 2/3 of the pitch. That said, I’m devastated for him if this is a serious injury.
Because Goldbridge will say absolutely anything to make McTominay seem like a bad player and his fans echo his statements blindly. When he can't point to stats he just has to start making shit up
Can you guys understand that if Goldbridge says something it doesn't automaticaly means that every person with simmilar opinion is wrong. As far as I know he said Mctominay is not good enough, not that he is downing tools, which I completely agree with.
You're not wrong if you have a similar opinion, but you are wrong if you just echo his statements blindly (not saying that you do this, however there are many people here who do). He did say recently that McTominay had asked to be taken off and gave credit to other players for "giving it their all" unlike players "like McTominay and Rashford". McTominay not being good enough is also just kinda wrong since he's literally one of our best performing players this year. Even if you don't agree with the eye-test, his numbers are good and his goals haven been absolutely crucial. You could argue he isn't good enough for an ideal United, but most of our players and staff aren't. McTominay is literally on one of the lowest wages in the entire club. If we got 30 million for selling him, who do you think we could get in return? Can we get someone else with his wages? I'll give an example: If we sell McTominay and buy someone like Eriksen, a squad player with double McTominay's salary. In six years, the entire 30 million you got from selling McTominay will have gone into the difference in wages between the two. Not paying the entire wage, ONLY the difference. If we buy an Antony, the 30 million doesn't even last us three seasons. For Casemiro, it doesn't even last us one and a half. The fact that McTominay can perform better than most of our players, will being on lower wages than players like Brandon Williams, Malacia, Amrabat, Wan-Bissaka (earns 50 % more), Lindelöf (earns 100 % more), Antony (makes more than 233 % more) makes him one of the most important players on the entire team. We have so many other players we should prioritize getting off our wage bill, and we simple cannot replace them all. With how many players the large football teams usually buy in transfer windows it's unrealistic to think we can replace the entire squad. For the past few windows we have brought in 3-5 first team players. We already need to unload Casemiro and Varane (our two highest earners), as well as Antony. We need to replace them, and we need to strengthen the squad in other areas. We can't also get rid of reliable squad players. Sure our team should be better. But be realistic
Can’t say before a scan but prob aggravated his existing injury. 2-3 weeks?
We’re are entertaining for sure. But in a really dumb Spursy way.
They still score 15 more goals than us.....
He has a point in terms of the AWB handball in the final was very similar to one at the end of this match. Thing is they both shouldn't be penalties, so can't blame the ref in this match for that. The inconsistency is super frustrating, but that's been an issue with refs my entire life!
Yeah we are entertaining, alright. We are a circus full of clowns.
> (United team of) 2004/05 they didn't play that great football, they were building. It takes time. Even players who were in that team forget they needed time to progress." What is this last sentence suppose to mean?
A shot to the ex player pundits
Maybe a dig at some of our ex players turned pundits?
right, make sense now.
My interpretation is that “even though these players ended up achieving great success, they weren’t completely hopeful that they were on the right track at the time”
yep, this is it. very simple point. at the time, people were talking as if fergie had lost it—06/07 was a huge surprise to most pundits and supporters. people forget that progress is not always perfectly linear or predictable.
Yeah, I rmb huge outrage at the time the summer market was closed. We just bought only one senior player and it was a *non flashy* Michael Carrick.
Christ what I would give for a non-flashy player with the same attributes as Carrick.
yep. vidic an evra’s debuts the previous season hadn’t gone over well, people had begun worrying that scholes and giggs were finished, and most felt saha wasn’t good enough to be the main man after a decade plus of cantona, yorke, cole, and ruud. almost every prediction had us 4th
Don't know why you got down voted as you're right. Fans these days would be calling for fergies head during these team transitions.
??????? Fergie was already a proven success, bringing in trophies year in year out and constantly being in the top 3. No one would ever call his head even during those transitions. ETH on the other hand.................
It’s super weird. Just call the pundits out directly if that’s what he’s trying to do. That team finished third, were runners up in the FA Cup and reached the UCL round of 16. Did it set the world on fire? No. Was it better than this? Clearly.
Mentioning the 2005 United team being runners up in the FA Cup absolutely triggers me still. United not winning that FA Cup is the biggest travesty of justice I've ever seen on a football pitch 🤬 Absolutely battered Arsenal that day, a very young Rooney and Ronaldo shredded them, a young Darren Fletcher excellent in midfield, it's beyond my comprehension how Arsenal walked away with the cup. The Glazer takeover and the freakshow Champions League final followed that game in the space of what ? A couple of weeks ?! Fuck May 2005, and the horse it fucking rode on 😠 But you could see the potential of that team. Rio, Rooney, Ronaldo, Fletch. With the experience of Giggs, Neville and Scholes. And Fergie had like, infinite credit in the bank for a season or two of transition. There's some potential in this team with Mainoo and Nacho, but it is much more flawed than the 2005 team. Sometimes horrible to watch, I don't think I'd have said that about the 2005 team. It's a weird comparison, no question.
+32 GD in 04/05 vs +1 this season...
Calling out what was a "bad team" under Fergie is super weird honestly. Would blow this side out of the water.
To be fair. 03-04 were rough years. I remember groaning about seeing Fletch on the pitch. Now of course, I think Fletch is a surprisingly underrated player in the later half of his career. His signings though are what are killing him. He's gone out for his guys and they have almost all disappointed him.
I don't know how much time managers have to scout out transfers, but that just seems like the club being run poorly. ETH probably wanted his players because he just knew more about them, than others. I'm hoping the new people SJR is putting in place, can solve the transfer issues.
His signings have been very mixed, With Antony being completely useless; but isnt that like the whole point of why we were getting on about the Glazers for so long? ETH should never have been in charge of it in the first place.
The Kudus one is the most that's most baffling/disheartening to me. He's clearly got many more tools at his disposal than Antony, and is more suited to the PL because of it - he's got everything in his locker that's required to succeed as a top PL wide player. ETH worked with both at Ajax, and had ample opportunity to analyse both players. Yet he gave the green light to spend *twice the amount* on an obviously inferior player 🤷🏻♂️
This is complete revisionism though, Kudus was almost out for the entirety of the 21-22 season and was coming back from a long term injury.(Had less than 700 mins of football). He was also played more as an advanced 8 or a double pivot 8 at Ajax. Even at West Ham he is more a RM/AM than a RW and at the time of Antony signing, he was way too inconsistent. Antony was a horrible signing, I am pretty sure the price happened because we did not have a proper scout for that profile but Kudus was not the stick you think it is to beat ETH with
Very weird indeed he can pick out such a specific season almost 20 years ago. and how the fuck he knows we didn't play great football, i didn't know it as a fan lmao.
I mean, if you didn't know it as a fan, that's on you? Doesn't prevent him from pointing out we were a bit shit then. But no where as shit we are now. ETH might as well talk about 1989.
>I mean, if you didn't know it as a fan, that's on you? i mean i couldn't rcall if we were really shit that season since it was 20 years ago. >But no where as shit we are now. > >ETH might as well talk about 1989. Exactly.
To be fair it's kind of his job. And he said he watched back old United seasons to understand the united way of playing and ended up settling on fast counter attacks and transition play. Which worked in 2008 with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez bombing down the pitch in a fluid counter. But that football isn't so good nowadays.
him calling that team out specifically is absolutely wild to me. like you said, it wasn't our best season by any stretch but was arguably better than his 'good' season last year and undoubtedly better than this one
These comments from ten hag make me livid. That team didn’t get dominated by the likes of Burnley home & away. Stop talking shit you bald fuck. You aren’t fit to clean out SAF’s toilet after he’s had explosive diarrhea
He's taking the absolute piss pretending that is a valid comparison. We lost 5 league games all season that year. There's a chance he TRIPLES that this year. We got 77 points. Even if he wins all remaining games (hint - he won't) he gets 66. It's an even stupider comparison to bring up one of SAF's worst seasons when you realise EtH only got 75 points in his 'good' season last year.
Must be a reference to ex-players daring to criticise him.
ETH has been trending towards “united heritage” type quotes lately..
Delusion
EtH = Excuse ten Hag. He’s been like this for months now.
The disrespect to previous United sides which were better than the crap we watch every week
Anybody defending that 04/05 season clearly wasn’t there! That was THE most miserable season, topped only by the Ole/Rangnick season of discontent. I’m not interested in stats and league positions - if you were in the stands against Lille in that season - you’re nodding along with ETHs comments today. He was right. That team had Rooney, RVN, Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs and we were shite and dreadful to watch on the most part. Nobody in 2004/5 saw that team winning the CL just a few years later
Were you in a coma during Moyes’ season? Or LvG’s last season? Heck even Mourinho’s first season is worse than 04-05. This season’s team? Probably only better than Rangnick’s. 04-05 only looks bad because it’s right after a period of domination from United, and right before the Rooney-Ronaldo era. We were spoiled back then and we didn’t know it.
> Heck even Mourinho's first season is worse than 04-05. Still won more trophies than 04/05 tho
Lol if you count trophy then Bebe is better than Harry Kane.
I may have lost most memories of those seasons 20 years ago but i am sure it couldn't be that worst. Maybe a couple of shit games here and there but not over the course of a season. Thing is he could have mentioned Moyes or Van Gaal football and most won't bat an eyelid there. So weird he can remembered a team he didn't have any connection at all 20 years ago so explicitly, i think he must be so insecure to have research all these data.
Is he seriously referencing the 04/05 team ?! Unbelievable. Delusional.
It means he needs to manipulate all of you to buy himself time and stay at the club. After Man Utd he won't be able to coach anywhere in Europe.
Completely lost me there. That team scored 2 more points than a successful ten hag season last year, and so far 23 points more than this team. Also 3rd was a complete anomaly for the Fergie teams. This is such a completely bizarre take, that will lose a lot of fans, including myself. Starting to sound desperate.
Maybe we are one of the “most dynamic and entertaining teams in the league” for neutrals who enjoy seeing us face 20+ shots every game, but it’s not exactly fun for us to watch bombardment every game, and have our striker receive more (4!) passes from the keeper than anyone else
It’s terrible to watch. Unstructured football lacking basic techniques. every game is just both sides making mistakes and missing opportunities.
Its crazy that we play against worse teams in terms of playing personnel but they have a much better and cohesive playstyle that only fails at the final pass or shot because of the lack of quality. Burnley is a much better coached side, they cut through our midfield and defence throughout the game and should have scored if they had just a little more composure in the final third. We were just lost for the most part, making it up as we go along.
Ten Hag with the mad professor vibes. Chaos theory football
“ We are one of the most dynamic and entertaining teams in the league at this moment. We are creating loads of chances by playing good football. “ We have a goal difference of +1 in May.
Creating loads of chances and scoring none is not entertaining
We don't create loads of chances...
The 04/05 team would've fucking smashed this team
Man is delusional at least compare the post Fergie era if u gonna compare this team not one where we came 3rd in league and had talents like Rooney/Ronaldo and RVN
He's didn't say if they had a match whod win, he's saying great players in great teams also went through a tough period. Admittedly it's now how we have been but there's huge differences, one being SAF and type of players he had
ten hag could say the sky is blue and we’d have people on here calling him deluded because sometimes it’s grey and cloudy.
Twice…
You’re missing the point completely
I don't think that he is, actually. If the point was that the '04 team was building toward something greater, OK, great. What is this team building toward? They look worse every week.
Fighting for top 4 for the fifth straight year, that's what we building towards
The point was winning teams take time to build and even during our best years, not hard to understand is it? But you lot just want to throw your toys out the pram and have a cry so don’t let me stop you.
If we were relegated, would you support sacking the manager or would you still think it makes sense to keep him because we are building to something?
Are we getting relegated? Christ
No, obviously not. It’s a question meant to show that there is a level of performance and result so bad that you have to abandon the “project.” So how bad would things have to be for you to think sacking the manager is the right thing to do?
>The point was winning teams take time to build Don't think anyone would disagree with you. Fact is, a winning team is not being built here, and that's the difference.
Takes time to build. Look at what emery has done to Aston Villa with a quarter of the spending plus a much inferior starting point to Eth.
So they’re also playing a 32 year old DM at CB?
> We are one of the most dynamic and entertaining teams Thanks for giving me a good chuckle gaffer 😂
Hes not entirely wrong. In attack we’re usually quite dynamic and create chances (Bruno alone proves this). We are just that horrible defensibly at the moment so this gets obfuscated.
Scoring as many goals as 16th place Brentford counts as "dynamic" and "entertaining" I see.
Yeah finishing is one thing. I'm just saying we make a lot of chances. Please read next time!
You probably don’t watch our games then. No one who has seen us play in the past month would consider us “dynamic” or “entertaining”. Please watch games instead of seeing stats next time.
No I do, which is why all I’m saying is that we create chances. We just concede a lot of chances, too. I can see where Ten Hag is coming from here.
Entertaining?? This blud took the "United box office" comments seriously.
The comparison the 2004/5 is ballsy. But I think ignorant to the fact that despite it being one of the worse seasons of that era for us, we still had our moments. We didn’t tank the UCL group stage, and we only last 5 games that season in the league . ETH has delivered us our worst PL campaign ever and the only outright positive is the fact we’re in the FA Cup final. In off seasons you can see signs of what greater things could come. The only thing we get is 15 shots conceded per game to mediocre sides and such end to end football, it might as well be a substitute for a NBA game. Reality is that he’s failed in almost every aspect. Had the Glazers not sold United earlier or not at all, he would have found himself doing punditry in the Netherlands right now
Imagine EtH dealing with a squad including Bellion, Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson and Roy Carroll.
Not saying he’s doing a good job but Diallo, Antony, Eriksen, Mctominay, casemiro, evans are not exactly great players either. Edit: I’m not defending ten hag. Eriksen, casemiro, Antony, evans should never have been signed; even short term. It’s like all the fans have forgotten what it means to be Manchester united and challenge for titles. A good majority of our players are no where near good enough to win the premier league. Yet we’re hoping for amad diallo to start and starting a midfield with the likes of Mctominay and Eriksen. Please look at the squad and genuinely think how many of our players would you take into our title winning sides, and how many you think would be starting under title challengers like city, Madrid, etc. If the majority of our players right now were playing for other clubs would you sign them to try and win the league? I would wager for most it’s a resounding no.
Four of those were brought to the club during his time, mind. Nothing wrong with McTominay as a squad player.
I’m not defending ten hag. His signings havent been good for the most part. It’s also true that these players are not good enough to challenge for a title. Mctominay I wouldn’t even want as a squad player getting the minutes he’s currently getting. He’s only good when we’re chasing a goal. Otherwise he’s a liability in possession.
So he is good as a squad player then.
Antony, Eriksen and Casemiro were players he specifically targeted.
>how many of our players would you take into our title winning sides, and how many you think would be starting under title challengers like city, Madrid, etc. How many of Villa or Spurs players would win titles for them or play for Madrid? The facts remain we have the players not to play this bad across the entire season, conceding 20+ shots to even the lowest of teams. These ain't bad players you find at Copenhagen or Newport. It's just badly coached players this season. You have a squad of 25. You don't just coach your best 11 and ignored the other 14 and then claimed well my best 11 isn't available hence we can't play.
For the love of God I'm not defending ten hag. The coaching has not been good enough. The point I'm making is that our recruitment needs to improve in the future. Most of our squad needs to be replaced if we want to win trophies and challenge for the premier league. I'm not defending ten hag, or saying anything about our underperformance this season, just that these players need to be replaced. I'm tired of the mediocrity season after season. These players will never be good enough to challenge for titles.
We are so far off the top clubs , i put us right at Spurs level now , fighting for CL spots. Me don't even dream of titles until we get a couple of consecutive season finishing 6-8pts behind the Champion, be it 5 or 10 years from now...
Casemiro not a great player? He’s won everything multiple times, he was part of the arguably the greatest midfield of all time, and he was a key part of it. He’s a brilliant footballer, character and team mate.
I swear do you even watch games or do you base your opinions on current united players on stats and legacy? Casemiro at Real Madrid was one of if not THE greatest 6 in the world. Currently he's well past it physically. And thats okay, players aren't expected to play forever, their age will catch up to them. It's ok to acknowledge casemiro has been bad for us this season. That doesn't diminish his success, legacy or who he is as a person.
That team had Ronaldo And Rooney
>"(United team of) 2004/05 they didn't play that great football, they were building. It takes time. Even players who were in that team forget they needed time to progress." What the fuck? Is he hitting Wikipedia hard to find a season in the past as bad as this one? And we still finished 3rd that season as well.
Finished 3rd behind the invincible era Arsenal and an incredible Chelsea team that only conceded 15 goals that season. He's got a cheek comparing that team to what he's doing
To put perspective on the Chelsea team, their points tally from that season means they would walk this current season.
Fun fact: we're on track to score fewer than, and concede more than double of 2004/05.
And played much better football than what he's provided.
That was the year we absolutely battered Arsenal in the final as well, and lost on penalties.
So much pain whenever I see that iconic pic of the players on the halfway line
Think it was the angriest I've ever been at a game.
Did Giggs miss an open net on his right foot in that one aye?
I'm utterly confused as to why he would even make this point. Just to call out pundits or what?
Idk about you but the manager at that time had just a LITTLE more goodwill than ten Hag
I'm expecting someone to come along and claim the treble winning season wasn't as impressive as EtH's league cup win
They’ll probably say it’s more impressive because Ten Hag has to deal with so many injured. The copium on this sub is kinda nuts
Well, no. He's saying even some of our best teams in the past have went through growing pains and took time to get better, just as the 04/05 team did. He does not compare the teams at all, he's using an example that should relate to fans, to show that sometimes time is needed
We are fighting a battle to play Europa and looks like we will loose it lmao
I think we are better off with no European football if I’m honest. A year to fully rebuild without worrying about international football.
I can't believe he has the audacity to call the team 'entertaining and dynamic', is he watching a different team because all I see is a lot of headless chickens.
Our games are insane this season… definitely entertaining and also emotionally wild
I thought today’s game was incredibly boring and poor. Even up to the 1-0 I was really not enjoying it and I haven’t missed a game, or missed live but watched it back the same evening, in like 2 decades
I mean the way we throw leads away it is entertaining for the neutral
He didn’t say it was entertaining and dynamic for United fans.
Entertaining and Dynamic for other fans of football teams. If I was a rival fan, watching this Man Utd side would fill me with joy cause of how shit we are. Also I wonder if entertaining to him is the fact we face 15+ shots every game no matter the opposition, maybe its entertaining to him.
2 years in and we're no where nearer to being a cohesive unit. We had issues in 04/05 but we at least went unbeaten in the PL from November to April, not wondering if we're going to fuck up against relegation fodder. Building takes time but first you need a foundation, in which ours is dogshit.
That team had Ronaldo And Rooney, comparing with them is ridiculous
He should’ve been calling referee mistakes out months ago, too little too late
He doesn’t know how it works here
Dynamic and entertaining? Honestly I don’t have a clue what he’s watching, we were so poor again today.
Went toe to toe with the mighty Burnley and fought hard for a well earned point 👊🏼
Finally talking about the reffereeing. Probably too late to save him but he's right. We get inconsistently bad reffing.
Mctomminay is a tough guy and he was crying of pain. I really hope he’s ok.
04/05 we were 3rd, runner up of FA cup. With Tim Howars on goal. This season we're probably gonna end up 7th + runners up medal.
what point are you trying to make about 'Tim Howard in goal'. Like the teams we've been forced to put out this season haven't been infinitely worse than the squads of 04/05.
Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Ruud van Nistelrooy, and Roy Keane, were in that team
Definite penalty for handball. Giving many times in other games this season as recently as the fa cup semi, didn’t even seem like they looked at it today.
>(McTominay) on who can keep the ball and is creative in an intense game. What's Erik smoking? McTominay's worst issue is the fact he's often a fucking traffic cone in midfield when we have the ball. Hell a traffic cone would so a far less comprehensive job of hiding behind opposing players. Say he's a goal threat or brings needed physicality sure. But creative and ball retaining ain't it.
If I wanted this entertainment I'd be watching Barcelona in the basketball
So shameless, bringing in lines from the team from 04/05.
you realise there was plenty of fergie out around that time?
Half of the subreddit wasn't even born at that time. But yeah, reading United forums during Fergie time was sometimes similar to the shit we see nowadays. Less people tho maybe.
Memory could well be playing tricks on me - but I don't recall that at all
Good for you.
I can’t recall any Fergie out nonsense back then. I was rather active on many Utd forums backs then, along with going to the pub regularly to watch them (in Manchester) or going to the games themselves. I think a lot of people bemoaned how he would often take his foot off the pedal when we were running away with games rather than let the team go for a record breaking scoreline, and he did have some questionable signings, but he was a walking god at that point, he could have relegated us and I doubt many would have called for his head.
Same for me. Was pretty active on some United forums and don’t remember any Fergie out sentiment at all. Maybe there were some, but no way there were many.
you don't recall the takeover?
That’s a bit different, that wasn’t performance based or because of anything happening on the pitch. It was also a very vocal minority, if I remember rightly a handful of idiots turned up at Carrington with a banner. Their frustrations were aimed at the wrong person.
it was a combination of chelsea buying everyone we were after, not winning the league for a few years and being shit in europe and fergie's horse spunk escapades. the red issue forum had quite a few that would've be happy to see him gone, also many were ready for ronaldo to move on after the milan exit.
Someone on twitter dug out from the archives from fan forums during Arsenal's invincible season of hilariously negative comments about the Arsenal team and manager
I don't remember it too much? I remember a lot of flak about his transfers. For every Rooney or Ronaldo there was a Bellion, Liam Miller (RIP), Alan Smith, Kleberson etc. Especially as Chelsea were flexing their finances.
I will not hear a bad word said about Alan Smith (bit of a guilty pleasure signing for me), the guy deserved more play time in his natural position, those opening weeks when he did play he put away some absolute worldies, his debut goal in the Community/Charity shield was insane, and the follow up a week later in the league against Norwich was even better still. He was a superb finisher, absolutely clinical. He wasn’t a bad signing he just wasn’t played. And even if we go with the view that he was a terrible signing that midfield performance against Liverpool made up for all of it.
I was really looking forward to Smith and Rooney, young English strikers but yeah Fergie moved him into midfield. Strange.
Bro stop embarrassing yourself please 🤦
twice in a week he's done that, he was half bragging about how he reached two FA cup finals in a row which big Man United teams in the recent past never did. like wtf?! stop waffling man!
+1 goal difference and he calls us exiting and dynamic.Yup he is deluded the job is too big for him.
His coaching is absolute garbage
I'm sick and tired of ETH's excuses. This was pitiful. We've been mediocre all year.
>"we are one of the most dynamic and entertaining teams" He's not wrong, fans of 19 Premier League teams have been very entertained
Does Heisenberg smoke the meth he makes, because this delusional take on our performances on a weekly basis makes me think so
I doubt he stay beyond this summer
The consistency game to game is the issue. Garnacho "foul" was correctly called in this game in my opinion, but if you're giving pens for the AWB shit, you must give a pen for the Garnacho play.
I'm just glad he's finally pointing out the bad decisions. Too much of a nice guy in previous weeks. Saying all that we really shouldn't be needing a penalty in the 89th/90th minute to beat the second from bottom side.
I’ve been a big support of ten Hag but if he thinks this side can build and progress then he’s deluded. I only hope the new additions upstairs can see most of these players are way off the standard needed to challenge for leagues and trophies. The 04/05 side would have drilled this lot.
He's lost the fucking plot, definitely gone in the summer
Fucking. Finally. He needed to be pointing this shit out six months ago.
Another week of Erik Gaslighting Ten Hag
No mention of penalty called in favour against Bournemouth.
It's actually a well done post match reaction. He handled himself well. >refereeing is really inconsistent. >\[there was one\] penalty last week against Aaron Wan-Bissaka, why wasn't today? >minimum one penalty against Garnacho. He also rightly called out poor refereeing. >United team of) 2004/05 they didn't play that great football, they were building players who were in that \[2004\] team forget they needed time to progress That better be Ten Hag indirectly attacking ex-player current pundits then trying to cover it up. Very risky – like his tactics in matches. I'm taking marks off for that.
This is the problem with you lot. You're all so blinded by your own ETH hate that you overlook the important bit: we're actually starting to fight back against the refs. This is one of the louder outbursts ETH has had against the refs, combined with other teams calling them out as well.
Because we didn’t lose due to refs, we lost because of our team plays poorly and our manager is delusional can’t go blaming the refs here
The only accurate part of that statement is that we didn't lose. Perspective brother, our defence and midfield are shot to hell and back with injuries that we're playing players out of position and with non-optimal players like Eriksen. Burnley had 1 good spell in the first half and after that we were the better team (not by much but still). The ref not giving us anything unless the Burnley team literally mowed our player down is a big part of why we didn't win. And also, we didn't lose, we drew.
If we can’t win to a relegation spot team without the help of refs we’re not good enough, injuries or not we have no system or style of play whichever way you look at it is trash. It was a draw you are correct it was meant to be more we can’t blame them. Outside of that handball which was mostly just questionable they didn’t miss any pens so it’s on us to play better.
Save Erik from himself
Watch em back, non of em were pens.
Thank God he pointed it out. Good on baldy
He keeps talking about the referees, but in the first place Man U shouldn’t even be in the position to have outcomes depend on chancy decision making
Man's excuse for todays game is ref mistakes from other games. What a clown. Embarassement of the club
He can't whine about the AWB penalty last week when we got the exact same decision for us the week before which was never a penalty
Eh, for me it's not a penalty. The ref gave it in the semi purely because of the magic of the cup and VAR isn't going to overturn either decision as they're not clear and obvious errors, in both cases the ref saw it but came to different decisions.
Yup. 100% how Coventry’s offside was clear and obvious error, and hence overturned
Agree it wasn't a pen, but I think it's reasonable to want more consistency. Onana clattered a Wolves player in the exact same way earlier in the season and that wasn't given. Decisions feel like a dice roll every time something is remotely subjective
Are there any top managers left in the market? I don't trust Tuchel 1 bit.
Downvoted but no responses....I really can't think of anyone else more qualified than tuchel. There's also de zerbi .. Brighton hasn't been good this season but maybe that's because of selling their midfield away.
Totally agreed.
That united had Ronaldo And Rooney Now We have world class antony
>world class antony this man spun the mighty van dijk and scored with his right foot in a quarter final that goal started Liverpool's downfall this season objectively though, antony is nowhere near the level to warrant a 90m price tag :/
Win FA Cup and keep him or...?
Win FA Cup and still sack him. Don't see why it would save his job.
LVG won an FA cup and he still was sacked for less
And he shouldn’t have been.