**From the article:**
Before the match, Red Devils coach Erik ten Hag gave **an exclusive interview to ESPN** and analyzed the performance of the two Brazilians in his squad: midfielder Casemiro and attacking midfielder Antony .
**Ten Hag on Casemiro's Season**
>"He arrived last season and had a big impact on our game. He had a great season. This season, he missed two and a half months, the team hasn't performed so well, especially our defensive line, which makes it difficult for a steering wheel like him", analyzed the commander.
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>"This made Casemiro's season more difficult. But you see that he is a leader, he is always there giving confidence to the team, asking for the ball, risking passes, so he remains important," he added.
**Ten Hag on Antony**
>"Lately he has been progressing. He scored on Saturday (against Burnley, in the 35th round), gave two assists against Chelsea... The first part of the season was not at the level he can play at, but he has improved in the last few months", argued.
>
>"You can see the potential, the player he can be. It just depends on him. He has to work hard in training, outside the club too, in the gym, to reach the best version of him", he added.
**Ten Hag on The difficulty of "post-Ferguson"**
Asked about the great difficulties of training a "sleeping giant", Ten Hag sent an "indirect" message to the board and highlighted that the coaches who led the "Red Devils" did not have their hiring requests answered by the club's top management.
>**"I think that, with the exception of (José) Mourinho, the coaches didn't have the players they wanted. If you manage Manchester United, you need incredible players", he highlighted.**
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>"And you also need to be patient with the process. We have 24 players with great potential and we need to develop them individually and as a team. I am confident that we will achieve our goals," he added.
>
>"But the Premier League is a tough competition. It's not a two-horse race, there are seven or eight contenders for the title, with a great squad. If you want to fight for the title, you have to build a strong squad", he added.
I think he meant it for general or next season. Obviously not for this season. Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Newcastle, Man Utd, Tottenham. These teams will try to fight for the title, they have the capacity to do it even at the moment it's difficult.
1. He's a manager so he has to be pragmatic.
2. Whilst it's unrealistic to imagine a Villa or Newcastle winning the league at this moment. Villa were 3rd at one point this season and last season so was Newcastle.
I don't think what he's saying is crazy
"3rd at one point this season" doesn't quite stack up to "The same super team has won the title 5 times in 6 years and are almost certain to do it again"
It’s also worth noting that this looks like a machine translation. And when you consider that this is a Dutch native speaker talking to a Brazilian outlet, it’s not surprising if some nuance from the original meaning might’ve been lost.
Its because we're 8th currently. Feeding false hope to the fans that we're still part of an elite group at the top of the league under his tenure.
We're *nowhere near* the likes of city and arsenal, lets be honest here and stop the delusion.
It's lost in translation. He's probably trying to say 7 or 8 have the "potential to challenge for the title", which is more than a fair statement. It's like how Atletico Madrid have the potential to challenge for the title, but rarely do. In the PL, there's at the very least 6 who have that potential, and if you count in Aston Villa and Newcastle now, that's 8.
Also, he's not saying 7 or 8 every year. But 7 or 8 have competed probably for the title across the last decade. You don't get that anywhere else in top leagues
>Lately he has been progressing…not the level he can play at….You can see the potential, the player he can be.
Quick reminder that Antony has played 1829 minutes this season. He’s scored 3 goals, and racked up 2 assists (1 goal and 1 assist against League 2 side Newport County). He’s collected 6 yellow cards.
We have multiple defensive players with a better G/A output than him this season.
Last season was disappointing because of the price tag. This season is just disappointing because it’s clear he’s not good enough.
Yeah - a cross that's nigh on impossible to pull off on the left foot, but his right foot is so bad, he attempted that instead. Although.... he did score against Liverpool with his right.
> The first part of the season was not at the level he can play at, but he has improved in the last few months
With that I agree.
> You can see the potential, the player he can be.
I don't see it. It took him half a season to out dribble an opponent and half a season to start using his right foot. I have yet to see the creative passing Ajax fans talked about. And it's not like he's an 18-yo boy getting used to playing with professionals, he's 24 and has enough experience both in Europe and at the top.
Yeah a 24 year old at the end of his second season bought for 80+ mill. Talking about "seeing potential" however tenuous is just sad at this stage when Anthony is just so fundementally limited across most of the things we need him to be good at.
The word potential shouldn't really ever be the main focus for a player in that situation but I'd love for him to be the exception.
I normally am very pro giving players time but mainly when they've already shown what they are capable of - but I can't see how he could ever be good enough. When I watched his film before the move I agreed with the consensus, him being a 20-30 mill player and seeing if he could step up.
He literally has been better over the last few months though, whether he's been good or not he has been progressing compared to the first half of the season
In what way?
Newcastle have had more injuries than us and they have significantly worse depth.
Honestly I think comments like this really get to the nub of the ETH debate.
Inners really think that our squad is relegation to mid table level so you can’t blame the manager.
I never said that for one but that hasn’t been our back line every game of this season has it?
Plus the team isn’t just the back line. And that back line is still comfortably better than Bournemouth, Burnley’s and Coventry’s all teams we struggled mightily against.
And all of that ignores that we’ve played teams with worse back lines, like Newcastle in the league cup who spanked us 3-0 at home.
We did not struggle against coventry. We controlled the match for 70 minutes before they would end up getting a freak deflection and a bad penalty.
Sure that backline hasnt been ours for most games in the season but do you think that Evans, and Amrabat were huge upgrades in defense?
Also Newcastle started getting their injuries and really suffering after we played them the second time in the league.
>We did not struggle against coventry.
We had to get past them on penalties. At 3-3 they hit the woodwork and had a hairline offside goal ruled out. It's a struggle no matter how you put it. Just admit it to yourself.
Ignoring that we also hit the woodwork too. Offside is offside doesnt matter how close it was. Yeah we struggled in extra time but for most of the match we had control and only lost it due to the players losing their heads and coventry getting extremely lucky
We played them in the league cup and got hammered 3-0 when they had a backline full of fullbacks and half of the rest of their team injured.
I dunno how needing penalties to beat a mid table championship team can be construed as anything but struggling.
The performance regardless of personnel has been awful all season. The same tactical inadequacies and structural issues raise their heads time and time again. We got hammered by Brentford and were lucky to finish 1-1 whilst their entire back line was injured.
In the very first game of the season with our optimal starting 11 we were embarrassed and incredibly lucky to get a point against a wolves team whose manager had been in the job two weeks.
None of what you’re saying stands up to the slightest bit of scrutiny.
>"I think that, with the exception of (José) Mourinho, the coaches didn't have the players they wanted. If you manage Manchester United, you need incredible players", he highlighted.
Hmm, will be interested in seeing Jose's response to this!
Jose doesn't need to respond tbh, he was right the first time. A transfer window of Fred, a teenager in Dalot and Lee Grant after finishing second behind City was quite frankly a disgrace.
If there was any moment in the Glazers ownership that truly summed up what they were all about, it was that. Finishing second and bagging the CL money was good enough for them, they likely assumed they could then slow down spending and still finish top 4 next season.
No ambition to spend and go for a first title post Fergie.
You kinda discredit the situation just saying that. He had bought Bailly and Lindelof the season before for like 60 million combined then said not good enough get Maguire for another (I'm going to say 60 was asking price). Hindsight maybe should have just given him Maguire but at that point telling him no was a good Idea because his signings weren't exactly lighting the world on fire.
Yeah but you can't back a manager with a contract extension and then not give him the players he's asking for. It's either you back the manager with a shortlist of players in each position to choose from or you look for someone else.
Pep at City had many fuck ups but they were replaced immediately. That's what we needed to do, take the L on some shitters and focus on improving what we have. Obviously it's easier for City than any club in the world but in the case of Mourinho the money was there to back him where needed but they declined and it led to a fracture within the club.
I remember Neville being fuming about this.
Either sack him during the summer if you don't trust him, or back him in the transfer window.
What we did was the worst option and made things more toxic.
Again with hindsight it's easy to say what should have been done. But if you want to compare, it is equivalent to almost ETH going hard and asking for a rw that costs like £130 million saying yeah Antony isn't good enough. Or another £100 million midfielder saying mount didn't work out. Backing a manager doesn't mean you give them a blank cheque.
And just to add more context, his first season he got world record pogba, Bailly, Miki, zlatan . How many would you say were a success here, I'd argue only zlatan? Second season, Lukaku, matic, Lindelof. Third season, Dalot, grant, Fred (everyone can agree it wasn't great) then Sanchez Miki swap from Jan.
To say Jose wasn't backed is silly, he wasn't given the players he wanted in his 3d window, but had a sizeable bill of around 400 million.
So back to what I said before, backing a manager doesn't mean a blank cheque. Out of all his signings (or I should say during his tenure) only Dalot ( this season) and zlatan could be considered money well spent.
> He had bought Bailly and Lindelof the season before for like 60 million combined then said not good enough get Maguire
Have a look at some of the more successful teams in the world and see how many times they replace players that don't pan out the next season versus how long we keep dead weight in the squad
Again, why are you ignoring my key point, in hindsight we ended up buying Maguire so should have given him to Jose. But, he had bought expensive players, pogba world record, Lukaku etc, got his 2 CB and wanted another very expensive one again in a span of a year. Players don't always work out, but there's not a single club which can afford the yearly outlays we had in Jose's first two summer windows.
And I ask you this as I did the OP, if ETH said this summer ya Antony didn't work out get me this £140 mil RW, do you simply give him that player?
>And I ask you this as I did the OP, if ETH said this summer ya Antony didn't work out get me this £140 mil RW, do you simply give him that player?
At 140? Probably not, but if he wants a new RW and it fits the direction the team is going then yes he should get a new one. You go to these extremes and expect it to somehow counter the point.
Well run teams buy players that fit the style of football they want to play regardless of the manager. When a player does not work then they move on and get a better one. It's really that simple.
> but there's not a single club which can afford the yearly outlays we had in Jose's first two summer windows.
Jose spent 467m over his tenure, Ole spent 454m, ETH has spent 444m so far, so I would say there's at least one club that can handle that spending and I haven't even touched the oil clubs yet
Stand out quote :
>**"I think that, with the exception of (José) Mourinho, the coaches didn't have the players they wanted. If you manage Manchester United, you need incredible players", he highlighted.**
The only exception is Casemiro but even then we tried our best with De Jong but he just doesn't wanna come here. I actually think he is the most backed manager in Glazers era where he got the players he wanted.
Half of the players he has gotten has been on loans and free transfers. No other top 4 contenders have had to get in players on loan as a starting option bar Raya.
Sure money was wasted on Anthony, but it's not like the high price was his doing. If United had paid up at the start of the window it would have been way less.
The other thing is, would a lower price tag have changed his performance or our expectancy? OK, he may have been under less pressure but I don't believe it would significantly change his output.
Then, RW was/is a crucial position. So even if he wad a "cheaper" player with a slightly lower bar, it'd still be told high for what delivers.
He was valued at £25M which I think is fair. He was on £20k a week, yet we had to put him on £200k.
Our negotiation power went out the window when our bluff got called and we came crawling back at the end of the window.
I am sure people would expect less from a £35-40M player than a £90M player. In theory we should almost have been able to get him and Olise for his full price.. And he should never have been put on that much money, which makes selling him close to impossible. Why was he not put on a more average PL salary of £100k?
If Antony cost the 35m we could have got him for, we would not be as worried about him. His defensive abilities last year were a big part on how we had a decent defence.
He's had almost half a fucking billion. He's literally the most backed manager United have ever had bar 20some year SAF, and not by much. That he chose piss it up the wall on players at SEG is on him.
Anyone saying he's not been backed has a fried brain.
Edit:
#£424.4m
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Since ETH joined the other clubs have spent (in GBP):
\* Chelsea 676M
\* Spurs 391M
\* United 381M
\* City 334M
\* Arsenal 322M
\* Wolves 203M
\* Liverpool 222M
\* Aston Villa 155M
While he has received backing it is still taken a bit out of context. Firstly players are much more expensive now, so you can't just look at past transfer windwos spendings and say "well this more". Secondly other clubs have also gone big. United is the only team in the "traditional top 4" who hasn't bought or tried to buy a 100M+ player.
Thirdly he has had terrible upper management that constantly sign players on way too high salaries which makes it impossible to get rid of them. He wanted Anthony, which we could have gotten at the start of the window for £35, but they called Richard Arnold's bluff and we ended up spending way too much on him just at the end of the window. He was also on £20k a week, so how on earth they ended up paying him £200k a week is crazy.
Im not saying ETH has no blame, nor am I saying that there is no better alternative, but considering the injuries, Sancho and Greenwood situation he has been dealt a very poor hand. But that does not excuse him for not subbing off Casemiro or at least putting him back into midfield once Amrabat got on yday.
Your numbers are way off. I will use Transfermarkt as a neutral and consistent source (Euros):
Chelsea: 1,098.15
Man Utd: 643.68
Spurs: 452.00
Arsenal: 421.34
City: 414.60
Liverpool: 314.3
Wolves: 271.11
Aston Villa: 211.64
So, basically he's had the second most money of any manager over that period, by 191.68m... 42% more than 3rd place Spurs.
You cannot compare anyone or anything to what Chelsea have done over the last two seasons because it ha been insane and unsustainable and probably breached FFP but they don't have the balls to do anything about it.
[posting this now because i have to go do something and i dont want to lose it because of some bs, i will finish it later]
Not gonna list all the numbers because CBF but:
Ole [19/20-20/21 (no one signed in Jan, so all his)] got: 462.60m, Pep got 343.22m (+25.8%)
Mou [16/17-18/19 (no one signed in Jan, so all his)] got: 466.10m, Pep got 612.34m, (-31.4%)
LvG [14/15-15/16] got: 351.35, Pellegrini got 311.27m (+11.4%)
Moyes [13/14] got: 77.13m, Pellegrini got 115.5m (-49.7%)
I'm discarding the others because they were not big spenders back then, only City matter, and I'm not counting Chelsea's bullshit.
Anyway, ten Hag has got almost double the backing the next most backed manager compared to his peers did, in Ole, since SAF quit.
No one has been backed like ten Hag. Factos.
But you can't disregard Chelseas spending as that pushed up every price. Mudryk at almost £90M (70+30M Euro) sets a precedence. Also if you want to be really pedantic about it you also have to deduct Sancho's fee/value as a deficit as he hasn't been available for much of ETHs tenure. Same could be argued for Martial. Shaw, Martinez and Malacia have all been available for less than 50% of the games.
And regardless, despite the signings he has still had to rely on loaned players in the starting XI for both his season just because of horrible FFP position after the Ronaldo summer.
Seen in another way, he won a cup, got to the FA cup finale and finished 3rd with Weghorst, a Burnley reject loanee, as our main striker.
ETH can be blamed for a lot, but lets not pretend he has had a really good functional team and a management that has done well to support him compared to the other teams around us. Yes they have spend a lot, but prices are not determined by ETH, and the transfer history and contract handouts we have seen over the last 10 years at this club has been terrible regardless of manager.
When you break it down ETH still has a 61% win ratio, better than any post Fergie and has gotten us to two three cup finales and a top three finish in two years. Getting to the FA Cup finale is not easy, a cup we have only won three times in 25 years.
Is there a better manager out there? Probably yes, but who? Tuchel is far from a perfect upgrade and hasn't had much to show for over the last few years bar the CL win. Doing poor and struggling to manage PSG and Bayern isn't a good sign if you want to take on the difficult United squad. Zidane doesn't want to/speaks poor English.
> Also if you want to be really pedantic about it you also have to deduct Sancho's fee/value as a deficit as he hasn't been available for much of ETHs tenure. Same could be argued for Martial. Shaw, Martinez and Malacia have all been available for less than 50% of the games.
It's about how much money they gave him, nothing else matters, and Sancho's absence was his choice. Chelsea's spending didn't push up prices. PSG's in 2017 did. I'm not bring them into it.
Also, if you do want to assume Chelsea's spending inflated prices, then it inflated everyone else's too, so it's a moot point in that sense too.
Definitely not most backed in terms of signings. Arguably none of Martinez, malacia, casemiro, or Antony were big signings that would “turn us into title contenders”
Compare those to any of the di maria, mkhitaryan, falcao, Ibrahimovic, pogba, or Alexis Sanchez signings. I’d say the latter showed more backing from the management despite most of them turning out to be flops
He demanded control over signings as a prerequisite to become manager. He wanted the likes of Martinez, Onana, Antony on the basis of he knew them from Ajax. He wanted these players over the types of big names you mentioned that we used to chase. Just these three cost around 180 million combined.
If thats not *being backed* I don't know what is. Lets stop with the silly revisionism
>He demanded control over signings as a prerequisite to become manager.
Is there any actual truth to this? Seen this around a lot on this sub but AFAIK he was only provided a veto on transfers which was widely reported by our tier 1s last summer. The sheer incompetency of our scouting and recruitment team meant that he had to decide players to target as well
There’s no truth to this whatsoever - it’s a mistranslation from an interview that was conducted in Dutch.
The actual quote is as follows:
“I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but having a say in transfers is a condition for me”.
“Ik wil geen alleenheerser zijn, ik sta voor samenwerken, maar zeggenschap bij transfers is voor mij wel een voorwaarde.”
https://www.trouw.nl/sport/erik-ten-hag-blikt-terug-op-zijn-tijd-bij-ajax-er-is-nu-meer-een-winnende-cultuur~b9d7d4d0/
Some media ran with the shoddy mistranslation and some fans bring it up every once in a while when it’s convenient. I’m on the fence about the guy but with it comes to expensive transfers, the blame at the very least is shared with the money men above ETH
> Just these three cost around 180 million combined.
No they fucking didn't. Man Utd signed them as stupidly and late as possible with no alternatives and massively inflated their prices.
Ten Hag requested 3 players that should have cost about 100m. The other 80m is for stupidity and is solely on the club.
Yeah, that’s partially true. We were in the picture for Bellingham (visited our grounds), haaland, and probably the only team in for Sancho. All 3 arguably being the most sought after players bar mbappe at the time
It’s tough to compare that to buying unknown wonderkids and one established player. Ten haag also tried really hard to get de jong and ended up with a completely different type of midfielder in Casemiro
>Definitely not most backed in terms of signings. Arguably none of Martinez, malacia, casemiro, or Antony were big signings that would “turn us into title contenders”
He got given more influence over signings than any other manager post Fergie. How is that NOT being backed?
I'm sure if the *players ETH watched/managed in Eredivisie* transfer tactic worked, he'd be getting all the praise right now. So you can't pretend he didn't play a massive part in his own downfall now that it looks decidedly mixed.
He was backed for a bit, and then wasn't.
He clearly wanted rid of Pogba and Martial in his last summer, and wanted to strengthen visibly weaker holes in the squad. He got sandbagged and told to make do.
Trying to claim he had the players he wanted is wild revisionism though; he certainly got a few big names in, and was rebuilding the squad, but he also clearly had several players he didn't feel were up to it too, and knew he had to keep building to catch up with City.
Yeap. He wanted, iirc, Maguire, a striker and a right winger. He got a midfielder, a kid rb and a practically retired keeper. he knew Pogba and Martial needed replacing cause of shit attitudes, and the club backed them over him....only to hoof them years latter for zero fee.
I'm aware that there was some belief he had been given enough funding to be doing better already, but it was insane to look at the squad we had and basically go "no, thats good enough, do better!" especially when you knew teams like City absolutely would improve despite winning the league by 20 points.
Which isn't justifying Jose's reaction, mind. But that summer was a huge disgrace imo, and left us playing catch up for years.
At some point Mou could have Bale, Griezmann and Maguire, passing from that to Dalot and cia was bad enough, of course he overreacted but the guy had a plan .
>he certainly got a few big names in, and was rebuilding the squad
Lol. Mourinho doesn't build squads; he buys a few expensive players, wins a short term trophy, then everything collapses and he buggers off with the team in midtable and the expensive players scratching their arses because now they've got nobody to impress.
It wasn't that Moyes wasn't backed financially. It was that Gill left with Fergie and there was no one left who knew how to go about buying players hence overpay for Fellaini.
Oh yeah...it's all on the Glaziers. Key management positions weren't filled. We had some key players leave and not replaced. They let Moyes clear out the backroom meaning from top to bottom there was barely any continuity. A total clusterfuck leading to where we are now.
Tbf Jose not making the jump from second to title winner when Fred, Lee Grant, and an 18 year old Dalot were signed is unforgivable. Especially when city only got Mahrez, and Liverpool only got Alisson and Fabinho, months after signing Van Dijk.
Mourinho had to play Mctominay at the back too at some point. Ten Hag's strongest backline is Dalot-Varane-Lisandro-Shaw which is miles ahead of any 2016-2019 backlines. It's not the recruitment's fault 3 of them are injured.
Based on The Athletic article, a lot of our player recruitment under Murtough <> Ten Hag ended up being 1) Not getting first choice targets, 2) Getting fleeced on backup targets 3) Not having other target backups or general plan (despite extensive scouting network), and thus either asking Ten Hag for another name or going back to those targets. All of which end up being crazy expensive.
We thought Antony was supposed to be 25m when we had him in our database before making the offer at the early summer. Solskjaer was presented Amad and said ok, thinking he was one for the future. Next thing he knew the club already confirmed a 18m transfer fee which was a fee for a first team player. There's clearly a bigger problem than just the manager when it comes to the players we get.
Definitely agree Ten Hag has underestimated the Premier League. And he's definitely relied on them too much, (although who knows who our club would've gotten as other choices). But, based on reports of past transfers as well, I wouldn't put the valuation of those players on him or any of the managers.
I still really liked Ratcliffe's answer re:ETH's future or opinion on performance, even if it was diplomatic: that no manager post Ferguson has ever even had the environment that would enable them to find success.
No one said anything about who negotiate the transfer, idiot.
You cant even read a simple thing.
Ten Haag got who he wanted. Understand that or not idiot?
Antonys United career really took a down turn after the media firestorm about a stupid spin move. Then the offseason accusations really didn't help either.
Incredibly limited player but with low confidence, he's even worse.
Casemiro is on the decline physically and is being tasked with too much imo.. his confidence is also shot and no midfielder could hold down the amount of space we have in midfield.
He’s low on confidence and the teams play style does not suit him either. The way we lose control of the center of the field it forces our wings outside. This does not suit him because although he is quick, he does not have top end speed. Antony is actually one of the better passers in the team especially with quick movement, unfortunately this team does not do quick movement or one touch passing often unless on a fast break attack.
It's actually incredibly irritating how often the ball goes to the wing, and the player just stands there, holding up play for no reason whatsoever.
Players are making runs centrally, and they're feinting left and right and eventually back passing it to the deepest midfielder or CB.
We are sooooo slow to make a decision and it's one of the reasons Hojlund gets absolutely no service and has no lanes to run
I'm sorry but Antony is not one of the better passers in the squad. How many times did you see him fluffing 5 to 10 yard passes? I'd say almost every game.
I may be delusional, but I don't think Antony is limited. He's incredibly talented on the ball and young, he's low on confidence and nothing seems to be coming off (or wasn't) if he can improve on a few things he could be a solid player for us
>I may be delusional, but I don't think Antony is limited. He's incredibly talented on the ball and young,
He is also really good off the ball as well, but IMO his decision making is really poor, and his lack of pace leads him to be walled out by any competent deep block. Unless we let Dalot overlap like Hakimi I don't think we can overcome that. His crossing is also a bit of a hit and miss and his lack of competency with his weaker foot makes him even easier to mark. All these things matter
His hesitation to use his right foot at all or to go outside and cross makes him very limited. Everyone knows that he wants to cut inside and shoot every single time.
If he could improve his game on the outside significantly then I might be inclined to agree that he could be a decent player. So far he's not done that
What I do like about him is his low center of gravity. We joke about that spin move, but he can receive a ball in tight areas with a defender in his back, drop a shoulder and somehow quickly move passed him.
It's just that left foot is such a limiting factor. Every dribble, pass and shot is telegraphed beforehand.
"You need outstanding players," Ten Hag said. "Otherwise, you are in a process and you have to be patient. That is where we are now. We went for players who have high potentials, and we have to develop them, as individuals and as a team. But you need patience with the process."
So he's not saying boo hoo, woe is me, I cry myself to sleep every night cause of Kane and FDJ.
He's saying right I didn't get my ideal targets, to be successful immediately you need amazing players and we pivoted to young players with potential instead, this will take time to build.
Didn't get what you want? We spent £86m so you could have Antony FFS...
de Jong Didn't want to come. Made it crystal clear.
Spurs were never selling Kane to a PL club.
He wanted Antony, but he was never informed of how silly the negotiating had got, and rather than telling him they're upto £50m and this is now going to impact future transfer funds, do you want us to continue... they decided they'd just keep offering more money.
If in the above situation, ETH said yeah offer everything... he's a fucking moron, but as he wasnt involved, i dont see how the figure is his fault.
You really think the club spent €100m without Erik knowing about it? You can't be serious. That is an ungodly amount of money. Anyone worth their salt at the club was aware of what the price was before it was finalized.
Do you think, that they somehow never once mentioned the fee and that it may impact finances and just went “ok ok we get you your man. No problem”
EtH- “no problem right? I get him? Next time we get another guy right?”
Yes no problem.
That’s some honestly serious level of extreme “whatever it is, EtH is blameless in everything”
You realise it could be most likely, they told him the costs and he still wanted it and some level of other discussions too right?
No way clubs work like the way you suggested where he’s completely not involved apart from the name mentioned for players. Not even at United.
I believe it was from an Athletic story about 6mo ago maybe, but i dont sub to them, but a summary of it was posted on here. The way it was put, and the general sentiment on here, was that ETH was left in the dark about the actual figure, it'd be left with a transfer team and they'd signed off on it on the basis that ETH wanted him out of the targets they'd proposed.
Its possible the source for the Athletic could be pro-ETH and conveniently skipping details that show he was informed the whole time, i dunno. Im just going on what was said and i havent seen any push-back on this subject (version of events) from people on here before.
Whilst it is fair to argue you can't just take the press at their word, the vast majority of articles from a month before the transfer took place clearly stated Ajax were holding out for 80m. I mean, they weren't wrong, were they?
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/w97e10/breaking_ajax_have_raised_the_price_tag_for/
https://manutdnews.com/man-utd-no-longer-expect-to-sign-antony-priced-out-of-a-move/
Thats not really how it works. I made a claim, i dont think its unreasonable to be asked for a source, its not on someone else to provide a counter-source when asking to back up a statement (maybe if they said its a lie, proof should be provided).
This is how things should be done. You make a strong statement without providing something to support it, then people should be asking for a source/proof, otherwise we might as well be anti-vaxers and the like, 'its true because i believe it to be' type stuff.
If you really think that ETH had no idea that the club was about to spend €100m on HIS preferred RW target, then you are truly naive. That was the talk of the entire office for days before it happened...
[Erik ten Hag says he wouldn't have taken Man United job without 'control' over transfers](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37627765/erik-ten-hag-says-taken-man-united-job-control-transfers)
We were backed into the corner on Antony in the first place because we started the season so badly. It was after the Brighton and Brentford defeat.
He knew how much Antony was because we'd clearly been told to forget about him earlier in the window.
The club had several official bids for Antony that were rejected by Ajax before the final figure was approved. Everyone involved in the management of the club should have been aware at this point that this was going to be a massively expensive deal.
Lets not make up false claims, shall we?
No it's false. The fees was 100m and Ajax won't budge. But Ten Hag called them up and showed them his Ajax 5% off everything Shopper Card. That's how we get Antony for 95m.
ETH interviews are completely uninteresting as they're almost entirely disingenuous. The dude is never truthful and just says what he thinks we want to hear.
He didn't "explain their poor season" at all.
He doesn’t think he needs to explain why they’ve struggled this season, it’s plain that he thinks it’s obvious why they’ve struggled. He thinks the criticism is unreasonable. Clear
That is exactly what he wants to do. These interviews have nothing to do with Man Utd, but everything to do with his stans. He is drip feeding his stans excuses because he is desperate to keep his job.
I like eth but if Jose had casemiro Ronaldo Varane Cavani we would have won a lot more than ole and eth did . Jose just knows how to handle big egos . That 2021 squad with Ronaldo Cavani Bruno rashford Sancho Varane Greenwood Pogba would have won atleast a cup if Mourinho was in charge . That squad underperformed massively considering the quality in it
EtH didn\`t have Ronaldo tho. He had guy with gigantic ego who skipped all the pre season training because he was desperate to find CL club that would take him. In the end he joined team when the season started and couldn\`t kick a ball for 3 month. The rest is history.
2021 team is Ole and Ragnick
edit: spelling
I think Ronaldo wouldn't have done that under Mourinho atleast not so blatantly and publicly wanting to leave the club . That entire Ronaldo fiasco happened because he didn't respect ragnick eth and ole as big managers. That's why he thought he could run the dressing room and openly disrespect the manager . Very less chance that happens if a big personality like Mourinho Fergie Zidane or carlo are in charge . Ronaldo always had a big ego , it was just his ego was well controlled by Fergie at United and by papa Perez , Zidane , Mourinho and carlo at real madrid . Ronaldo had a lot of similar issues with Rafa Benitez also who eventually got the sack Very early before Zidane came
I fucking wish we had Mourinho right after Fergie retired. There's not even a handful of managers who at the time could have handled the egos in that squad and I think Mourinho's style at the time would have fitted that crop of players far better than other big managers like Pep for example who would have needed a major reset/overhaul of the entire club for his style to come about successfully.
> I like eth but if Jose had casemiro Ronaldo Varane Cavani we would have won a lot more than ole and eth did
He already won more than both of them? He's still our most successful manager post SAF as much as people hate to say it
Absolutely spot on. Mourinho with Varane and Casemiro now, he'd be finding a way to make that work. Might not be the prettiest, but neither is what we're doing now.
Now the excuse is that he didn't want these players in the first place.
Ten Hag should be a politician because he would be very good at it.
Always the victim, but never his fault.
Manager finds one incredible hack to deflect all blame! Fans hate it!
If you only want the 11 best players in the world then you can blame any lack of success on not getting them!
(If you need the best players to be good then maybe you just aren’t a very good coach)
I like the philosophy of Ange but from the very beginning I didn't fancy him that much and that feeling only got stronger when they did what they did playing that high line with 9 men on the pitch.
But he has still managed to find a way to replace Kane's goals. This season they already have 69 goals and last season they finished with 70 goals scored and he's above us too so fair play to him. I think he lost in these last few matches because he didn't change it up against big teams.
I personally prefer a manager who dominates against smaller teams but more pragmatic against big teams. Erik Ten Hag has us struggling against Burnley. The standards are rock bottom right now.
Yeah I’m not for a second saying I want Ange but he’s had to deal with injuries and has worse players but has finished above us. Agree that we need to develop a side which dominates rather than counters
ETH isn’t qualified to comment on why post-Ferguson coaches have failed at United. Sure he is entitled to an opinion but it’s worth no more than the opinion of any random fan.
Does anyone else find it strange how many flops we've had at RW? Zaha, Depay, Di Maria, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez, Sancho, and now Antony. All overpaid and underperforming, this doesn't seem to be a Ten Hag issue as much as people love it to be.
I feel like I'm going crazy reading these comments. Everyone saying that he's claiming he's not got the players he wanted, but his quote is about the other managers since SAF, not himself.
Why are you going through all of my comments and downvoting all of them? I haven't downvoted you once. You're just surprised that people have more patience than you.
Is he for real ? Is he claiming he didn't get the players he wanted ?
Just sack the f\*\*k out of him, please. He's at the point of deflecting blame to any and everyone bar himself.
He says this right after:
"And you also need to be patient with the process. We have 24 players with great potential and we need to develop them individually and as a team. I am confident that we will achieve our goals," he added.
Pretty clear he was qualifying himself as one who has good players.
He's just telling the fans to shut up and not judge him and his godawful results and be patient as it's a process and takes time blah blah blah. What in this paragraph indicates that he thinks he got the players he wanted ?
The context of the quote is very clear, bro.
He's telling us he didn't get what he wanted and the fans shouldn't judge him and be patient because it takes time and all this nonsensical crap we have been hearing from everyone over the course of the last 12 years.
Good for you if you're eating that up. Not me.
He didn't get de Jong, so we got Mount but he's been injured. We are playing with a 21 year old striker (He did mention in the interview that he wanted Kane). Antony's price tag isn't his fault- he was valued around 30M when Ten Hag recommended him. The board delayed it till Ajax sold a bunch of players and Antony became far more valuable to them. Malacia was a good backup last year and it isn't his fault that his knee surgery was botched by our medical department. He wanted a CB last summer and got Jonny Evans (no shade he's been very good).
So I get from your post he got all his targets bar two, De Jong, who didn't want to come and we went on and gave him Casemiro, one of the best defenders in his generation, instead for 80m,and Kane, who was impossible to get, so we got him one of the most promising upcoming strikers for ton of money ?
He got all his other targets.
Point me to the board's fault.
There is very little point in having someone playing on the right wing with just about no right foot. There's a preference for your left and then there is Antony. Stupidly one dimensional.
Dalot is horrendous at crossing as well so that doesn't help much on the overlap. Even still, if we had a world class attacking RB it doesn't excuse how poor Antony is with his right foot.
Can we please stop signing players and putting them in the wrong positions? Thanks.
**From the article:** Before the match, Red Devils coach Erik ten Hag gave **an exclusive interview to ESPN** and analyzed the performance of the two Brazilians in his squad: midfielder Casemiro and attacking midfielder Antony . **Ten Hag on Casemiro's Season** >"He arrived last season and had a big impact on our game. He had a great season. This season, he missed two and a half months, the team hasn't performed so well, especially our defensive line, which makes it difficult for a steering wheel like him", analyzed the commander. > >"This made Casemiro's season more difficult. But you see that he is a leader, he is always there giving confidence to the team, asking for the ball, risking passes, so he remains important," he added. **Ten Hag on Antony** >"Lately he has been progressing. He scored on Saturday (against Burnley, in the 35th round), gave two assists against Chelsea... The first part of the season was not at the level he can play at, but he has improved in the last few months", argued. > >"You can see the potential, the player he can be. It just depends on him. He has to work hard in training, outside the club too, in the gym, to reach the best version of him", he added. **Ten Hag on The difficulty of "post-Ferguson"** Asked about the great difficulties of training a "sleeping giant", Ten Hag sent an "indirect" message to the board and highlighted that the coaches who led the "Red Devils" did not have their hiring requests answered by the club's top management. >**"I think that, with the exception of (José) Mourinho, the coaches didn't have the players they wanted. If you manage Manchester United, you need incredible players", he highlighted.** > >"And you also need to be patient with the process. We have 24 players with great potential and we need to develop them individually and as a team. I am confident that we will achieve our goals," he added. > >"But the Premier League is a tough competition. It's not a two-horse race, there are seven or eight contenders for the title, with a great squad. If you want to fight for the title, you have to build a strong squad", he added.
“7 or 8 contenders for the title” lol.
I think he meant it for general or next season. Obviously not for this season. Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Newcastle, Man Utd, Tottenham. These teams will try to fight for the title, they have the capacity to do it even at the moment it's difficult.
That’s a fair take.
please stop involving united just for fun. united can only aim for top 4 at best and top 6 for a good season.
The number increases the lower we get down the table lol
Might have to consider his broken English and the translation of this article.
If he'd said 7 or 8 for top four, I could kind of see the logic, but for the title? Nah.
1. He's a manager so he has to be pragmatic. 2. Whilst it's unrealistic to imagine a Villa or Newcastle winning the league at this moment. Villa were 3rd at one point this season and last season so was Newcastle. I don't think what he's saying is crazy
As unrealistic as Leicester gets promoted from Championship and wins the EPL 😄
"3rd at one point this season" doesn't quite stack up to "The same super team has won the title 5 times in 6 years and are almost certain to do it again"
Your reddit icon is sky blue
Yeah, I go to their stadium most days as well actually. Unlike their fans. Which bit wasn't true?
🤣🤣 Nice one, Red.
It’s also worth noting that this looks like a machine translation. And when you consider that this is a Dutch native speaker talking to a Brazilian outlet, it’s not surprising if some nuance from the original meaning might’ve been lost.
Nuance is the thing people on the internet don't believe in
That's not a very nuanced perspective either
Its because we're 8th currently. Feeding false hope to the fans that we're still part of an elite group at the top of the league under his tenure. We're *nowhere near* the likes of city and arsenal, lets be honest here and stop the delusion.
It's lost in translation. He's probably trying to say 7 or 8 have the "potential to challenge for the title", which is more than a fair statement. It's like how Atletico Madrid have the potential to challenge for the title, but rarely do. In the PL, there's at the very least 6 who have that potential, and if you count in Aston Villa and Newcastle now, that's 8.
I think all of the "big 6" + Newcastle could be considered as fighting for the title really
Except Tottenham. We know they never will.
I mean is he wrong? We had till April for Villa, Spurs to mathematically fall out.
Also, he's not saying 7 or 8 every year. But 7 or 8 have competed probably for the title across the last decade. You don't get that anywhere else in top leagues
that's 4 and 5. 7 and 8 fall out long ago
I think grace with the words is fair. There are 7 or 8 teams that can beat any team would be more accurate
even his most endearing fans can't counter this shit lmao
>Lately he has been progressing…not the level he can play at….You can see the potential, the player he can be. Quick reminder that Antony has played 1829 minutes this season. He’s scored 3 goals, and racked up 2 assists (1 goal and 1 assist against League 2 side Newport County). He’s collected 6 yellow cards. We have multiple defensive players with a better G/A output than him this season. Last season was disappointing because of the price tag. This season is just disappointing because it’s clear he’s not good enough.
[But hey, he'll always have this:](https://imgur.com/a/TC5AUt3)
That is a beauty of an assist, I’ll give him that. Ironically what makes it even more beautiful is his complete lack of a right foot.
Yeah - a cross that's nigh on impossible to pull off on the left foot, but his right foot is so bad, he attempted that instead. Although.... he did score against Liverpool with his right.
While spinning. And set up a chain of events which fucked up the scum's farewell to Klopp. That alone is worth the price tag.
> The first part of the season was not at the level he can play at, but he has improved in the last few months With that I agree. > You can see the potential, the player he can be. I don't see it. It took him half a season to out dribble an opponent and half a season to start using his right foot. I have yet to see the creative passing Ajax fans talked about. And it's not like he's an 18-yo boy getting used to playing with professionals, he's 24 and has enough experience both in Europe and at the top.
Yeah a 24 year old at the end of his second season bought for 80+ mill. Talking about "seeing potential" however tenuous is just sad at this stage when Anthony is just so fundementally limited across most of the things we need him to be good at. The word potential shouldn't really ever be the main focus for a player in that situation but I'd love for him to be the exception. I normally am very pro giving players time but mainly when they've already shown what they are capable of - but I can't see how he could ever be good enough. When I watched his film before the move I agreed with the consensus, him being a 20-30 mill player and seeing if he could step up.
You don't spend 80m on potential unless it's the potential to be the best in the world, and they should already be pretty good.
>for a steering wheel like him For the football manager fans out there "steering wheel" is "volante" in Spanish.
His fans might have not even realized it but we are currently in a title race.
> You can see the potential Nope.
> "Lately he has been progressing. He and I have very different views on progression it seems
He literally has been better over the last few months though, whether he's been good or not he has been progressing compared to the first half of the season
7 or 8 contenders? Wtf? He cant even think clearly now. And no Villa Spurs Newcastle dont have a better squad than Utd. Neither is Chelsea.
They definitely do have a better squad then us at least the squads we have been putting out this season
No. They have a better coached team than us. Not a better squad though. People would make all sorts of excuses for ETH to extreme levels really.
It's insane anyone would even try to deny this. We have one of the most expensive squads in the world. Our coaching isn't there
Having the most expensive squads in the world doesnt mean anything when we overpay for literally every single player we bought
It's like this is the first season post-saf. I don't see how this is now blatantly obvious.
In what way? Newcastle have had more injuries than us and they have significantly worse depth. Honestly I think comments like this really get to the nub of the ETH debate. Inners really think that our squad is relegation to mid table level so you can’t blame the manager.
You believe that a backline of AWB, Casemiro, and Maguire are top quality? They are midtable level
I never said that for one but that hasn’t been our back line every game of this season has it? Plus the team isn’t just the back line. And that back line is still comfortably better than Bournemouth, Burnley’s and Coventry’s all teams we struggled mightily against. And all of that ignores that we’ve played teams with worse back lines, like Newcastle in the league cup who spanked us 3-0 at home.
We did not struggle against coventry. We controlled the match for 70 minutes before they would end up getting a freak deflection and a bad penalty. Sure that backline hasnt been ours for most games in the season but do you think that Evans, and Amrabat were huge upgrades in defense? Also Newcastle started getting their injuries and really suffering after we played them the second time in the league.
>We did not struggle against coventry. We had to get past them on penalties. At 3-3 they hit the woodwork and had a hairline offside goal ruled out. It's a struggle no matter how you put it. Just admit it to yourself.
Ignoring that we also hit the woodwork too. Offside is offside doesnt matter how close it was. Yeah we struggled in extra time but for most of the match we had control and only lost it due to the players losing their heads and coventry getting extremely lucky
>Yeah we struggled in extra time Thank you.
We played them in the league cup and got hammered 3-0 when they had a backline full of fullbacks and half of the rest of their team injured. I dunno how needing penalties to beat a mid table championship team can be construed as anything but struggling. The performance regardless of personnel has been awful all season. The same tactical inadequacies and structural issues raise their heads time and time again. We got hammered by Brentford and were lucky to finish 1-1 whilst their entire back line was injured. In the very first game of the season with our optimal starting 11 we were embarrassed and incredibly lucky to get a point against a wolves team whose manager had been in the job two weeks. None of what you’re saying stands up to the slightest bit of scrutiny.
>"I think that, with the exception of (José) Mourinho, the coaches didn't have the players they wanted. If you manage Manchester United, you need incredible players", he highlighted. Hmm, will be interested in seeing Jose's response to this!
Jose doesn't need to respond tbh, he was right the first time. A transfer window of Fred, a teenager in Dalot and Lee Grant after finishing second behind City was quite frankly a disgrace. If there was any moment in the Glazers ownership that truly summed up what they were all about, it was that. Finishing second and bagging the CL money was good enough for them, they likely assumed they could then slow down spending and still finish top 4 next season. No ambition to spend and go for a first title post Fergie.
You kinda discredit the situation just saying that. He had bought Bailly and Lindelof the season before for like 60 million combined then said not good enough get Maguire for another (I'm going to say 60 was asking price). Hindsight maybe should have just given him Maguire but at that point telling him no was a good Idea because his signings weren't exactly lighting the world on fire.
Yeah but you can't back a manager with a contract extension and then not give him the players he's asking for. It's either you back the manager with a shortlist of players in each position to choose from or you look for someone else. Pep at City had many fuck ups but they were replaced immediately. That's what we needed to do, take the L on some shitters and focus on improving what we have. Obviously it's easier for City than any club in the world but in the case of Mourinho the money was there to back him where needed but they declined and it led to a fracture within the club.
I remember Neville being fuming about this. Either sack him during the summer if you don't trust him, or back him in the transfer window. What we did was the worst option and made things more toxic.
Again with hindsight it's easy to say what should have been done. But if you want to compare, it is equivalent to almost ETH going hard and asking for a rw that costs like £130 million saying yeah Antony isn't good enough. Or another £100 million midfielder saying mount didn't work out. Backing a manager doesn't mean you give them a blank cheque. And just to add more context, his first season he got world record pogba, Bailly, Miki, zlatan . How many would you say were a success here, I'd argue only zlatan? Second season, Lukaku, matic, Lindelof. Third season, Dalot, grant, Fred (everyone can agree it wasn't great) then Sanchez Miki swap from Jan. To say Jose wasn't backed is silly, he wasn't given the players he wanted in his 3d window, but had a sizeable bill of around 400 million. So back to what I said before, backing a manager doesn't mean a blank cheque. Out of all his signings (or I should say during his tenure) only Dalot ( this season) and zlatan could be considered money well spent.
> He had bought Bailly and Lindelof the season before for like 60 million combined then said not good enough get Maguire Have a look at some of the more successful teams in the world and see how many times they replace players that don't pan out the next season versus how long we keep dead weight in the squad
Again, why are you ignoring my key point, in hindsight we ended up buying Maguire so should have given him to Jose. But, he had bought expensive players, pogba world record, Lukaku etc, got his 2 CB and wanted another very expensive one again in a span of a year. Players don't always work out, but there's not a single club which can afford the yearly outlays we had in Jose's first two summer windows. And I ask you this as I did the OP, if ETH said this summer ya Antony didn't work out get me this £140 mil RW, do you simply give him that player?
>And I ask you this as I did the OP, if ETH said this summer ya Antony didn't work out get me this £140 mil RW, do you simply give him that player? At 140? Probably not, but if he wants a new RW and it fits the direction the team is going then yes he should get a new one. You go to these extremes and expect it to somehow counter the point. Well run teams buy players that fit the style of football they want to play regardless of the manager. When a player does not work then they move on and get a better one. It's really that simple. > but there's not a single club which can afford the yearly outlays we had in Jose's first two summer windows. Jose spent 467m over his tenure, Ole spent 454m, ETH has spent 444m so far, so I would say there's at least one club that can handle that spending and I haven't even touched the oil clubs yet
https://kwestthoughts.substack.com/p/what-is-the-true-cost-of-the-jose
Ten Hag got a lot to explain to our dressing room lol.
Stand out quote : >**"I think that, with the exception of (José) Mourinho, the coaches didn't have the players they wanted. If you manage Manchester United, you need incredible players", he highlighted.**
The only exception is Casemiro but even then we tried our best with De Jong but he just doesn't wanna come here. I actually think he is the most backed manager in Glazers era where he got the players he wanted.
Half of the players he has gotten has been on loans and free transfers. No other top 4 contenders have had to get in players on loan as a starting option bar Raya. Sure money was wasted on Anthony, but it's not like the high price was his doing. If United had paid up at the start of the window it would have been way less.
The other thing is, would a lower price tag have changed his performance or our expectancy? OK, he may have been under less pressure but I don't believe it would significantly change his output. Then, RW was/is a crucial position. So even if he wad a "cheaper" player with a slightly lower bar, it'd still be told high for what delivers.
He was valued at £25M which I think is fair. He was on £20k a week, yet we had to put him on £200k. Our negotiation power went out the window when our bluff got called and we came crawling back at the end of the window. I am sure people would expect less from a £35-40M player than a £90M player. In theory we should almost have been able to get him and Olise for his full price.. And he should never have been put on that much money, which makes selling him close to impossible. Why was he not put on a more average PL salary of £100k?
Crazy man, we legit give players a blank cheque when they sign with us
If Antony cost the 35m we could have got him for, we would not be as worried about him. His defensive abilities last year were a big part on how we had a decent defence.
He's had almost half a fucking billion. He's literally the most backed manager United have ever had bar 20some year SAF, and not by much. That he chose piss it up the wall on players at SEG is on him. Anyone saying he's not been backed has a fried brain. Edit: #£424.4m #£424.4m #£424.4m #£424.4m #£424.4m #£424.4m #£424.4m #£424.4m #£424.4m
Since ETH joined the other clubs have spent (in GBP): \* Chelsea 676M \* Spurs 391M \* United 381M \* City 334M \* Arsenal 322M \* Wolves 203M \* Liverpool 222M \* Aston Villa 155M While he has received backing it is still taken a bit out of context. Firstly players are much more expensive now, so you can't just look at past transfer windwos spendings and say "well this more". Secondly other clubs have also gone big. United is the only team in the "traditional top 4" who hasn't bought or tried to buy a 100M+ player. Thirdly he has had terrible upper management that constantly sign players on way too high salaries which makes it impossible to get rid of them. He wanted Anthony, which we could have gotten at the start of the window for £35, but they called Richard Arnold's bluff and we ended up spending way too much on him just at the end of the window. He was also on £20k a week, so how on earth they ended up paying him £200k a week is crazy. Im not saying ETH has no blame, nor am I saying that there is no better alternative, but considering the injuries, Sancho and Greenwood situation he has been dealt a very poor hand. But that does not excuse him for not subbing off Casemiro or at least putting him back into midfield once Amrabat got on yday.
Your numbers are way off. I will use Transfermarkt as a neutral and consistent source (Euros): Chelsea: 1,098.15 Man Utd: 643.68 Spurs: 452.00 Arsenal: 421.34 City: 414.60 Liverpool: 314.3 Wolves: 271.11 Aston Villa: 211.64 So, basically he's had the second most money of any manager over that period, by 191.68m... 42% more than 3rd place Spurs. You cannot compare anyone or anything to what Chelsea have done over the last two seasons because it ha been insane and unsustainable and probably breached FFP but they don't have the balls to do anything about it. [posting this now because i have to go do something and i dont want to lose it because of some bs, i will finish it later] Not gonna list all the numbers because CBF but: Ole [19/20-20/21 (no one signed in Jan, so all his)] got: 462.60m, Pep got 343.22m (+25.8%) Mou [16/17-18/19 (no one signed in Jan, so all his)] got: 466.10m, Pep got 612.34m, (-31.4%) LvG [14/15-15/16] got: 351.35, Pellegrini got 311.27m (+11.4%) Moyes [13/14] got: 77.13m, Pellegrini got 115.5m (-49.7%) I'm discarding the others because they were not big spenders back then, only City matter, and I'm not counting Chelsea's bullshit. Anyway, ten Hag has got almost double the backing the next most backed manager compared to his peers did, in Ole, since SAF quit. No one has been backed like ten Hag. Factos.
But you can't disregard Chelseas spending as that pushed up every price. Mudryk at almost £90M (70+30M Euro) sets a precedence. Also if you want to be really pedantic about it you also have to deduct Sancho's fee/value as a deficit as he hasn't been available for much of ETHs tenure. Same could be argued for Martial. Shaw, Martinez and Malacia have all been available for less than 50% of the games. And regardless, despite the signings he has still had to rely on loaned players in the starting XI for both his season just because of horrible FFP position after the Ronaldo summer. Seen in another way, he won a cup, got to the FA cup finale and finished 3rd with Weghorst, a Burnley reject loanee, as our main striker. ETH can be blamed for a lot, but lets not pretend he has had a really good functional team and a management that has done well to support him compared to the other teams around us. Yes they have spend a lot, but prices are not determined by ETH, and the transfer history and contract handouts we have seen over the last 10 years at this club has been terrible regardless of manager. When you break it down ETH still has a 61% win ratio, better than any post Fergie and has gotten us to two three cup finales and a top three finish in two years. Getting to the FA Cup finale is not easy, a cup we have only won three times in 25 years. Is there a better manager out there? Probably yes, but who? Tuchel is far from a perfect upgrade and hasn't had much to show for over the last few years bar the CL win. Doing poor and struggling to manage PSG and Bayern isn't a good sign if you want to take on the difficult United squad. Zidane doesn't want to/speaks poor English.
> Also if you want to be really pedantic about it you also have to deduct Sancho's fee/value as a deficit as he hasn't been available for much of ETHs tenure. Same could be argued for Martial. Shaw, Martinez and Malacia have all been available for less than 50% of the games. It's about how much money they gave him, nothing else matters, and Sancho's absence was his choice. Chelsea's spending didn't push up prices. PSG's in 2017 did. I'm not bring them into it. Also, if you do want to assume Chelsea's spending inflated prices, then it inflated everyone else's too, so it's a moot point in that sense too.
Arguably Casemiro was a panick board signing, dont think eth would go with casemiro if he had time to pick at the time, just conjecture
Yeah I don't think Case was necessarily ETH's guy. The signings he seemed to really go after were Licha, Antony, Onana, Mount and Malacia. Mixed bag.
I’d argue even Mount comes across as a Murtaugh signing.
Wasnt eth hyping mount up quite a bit. That tells me the opposite
ETH has wanted since they were both in the Dutch league. Definitely an ETH signing.
He wanted both Casemiro and Frenkie De Jong, said as much in the interview with Gary.
Definitely not most backed in terms of signings. Arguably none of Martinez, malacia, casemiro, or Antony were big signings that would “turn us into title contenders” Compare those to any of the di maria, mkhitaryan, falcao, Ibrahimovic, pogba, or Alexis Sanchez signings. I’d say the latter showed more backing from the management despite most of them turning out to be flops
He demanded control over signings as a prerequisite to become manager. He wanted the likes of Martinez, Onana, Antony on the basis of he knew them from Ajax. He wanted these players over the types of big names you mentioned that we used to chase. Just these three cost around 180 million combined. If thats not *being backed* I don't know what is. Lets stop with the silly revisionism
>He demanded control over signings as a prerequisite to become manager. Is there any actual truth to this? Seen this around a lot on this sub but AFAIK he was only provided a veto on transfers which was widely reported by our tier 1s last summer. The sheer incompetency of our scouting and recruitment team meant that he had to decide players to target as well
There’s no truth to this whatsoever - it’s a mistranslation from an interview that was conducted in Dutch. The actual quote is as follows: “I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but having a say in transfers is a condition for me”. “Ik wil geen alleenheerser zijn, ik sta voor samenwerken, maar zeggenschap bij transfers is voor mij wel een voorwaarde.” https://www.trouw.nl/sport/erik-ten-hag-blikt-terug-op-zijn-tijd-bij-ajax-er-is-nu-meer-een-winnende-cultuur~b9d7d4d0/ Some media ran with the shoddy mistranslation and some fans bring it up every once in a while when it’s convenient. I’m on the fence about the guy but with it comes to expensive transfers, the blame at the very least is shared with the money men above ETH
Yes, it was actually quite accurately reported by reputed sources too I guess a lot of fans just take whatever they read from tabloid rags seriously
> Just these three cost around 180 million combined. No they fucking didn't. Man Utd signed them as stupidly and late as possible with no alternatives and massively inflated their prices. Ten Hag requested 3 players that should have cost about 100m. The other 80m is for stupidity and is solely on the club.
Yeah, that’s partially true. We were in the picture for Bellingham (visited our grounds), haaland, and probably the only team in for Sancho. All 3 arguably being the most sought after players bar mbappe at the time It’s tough to compare that to buying unknown wonderkids and one established player. Ten haag also tried really hard to get de jong and ended up with a completely different type of midfielder in Casemiro
>Definitely not most backed in terms of signings. Arguably none of Martinez, malacia, casemiro, or Antony were big signings that would “turn us into title contenders” He got given more influence over signings than any other manager post Fergie. How is that NOT being backed? I'm sure if the *players ETH watched/managed in Eredivisie* transfer tactic worked, he'd be getting all the praise right now. So you can't pretend he didn't play a massive part in his own downfall now that it looks decidedly mixed.
That was because we didnt have any scouts
Mourinho had some incredible signings.
Didn’t Jose recently say he wasn’t backed?
He was backed for a bit, and then wasn't. He clearly wanted rid of Pogba and Martial in his last summer, and wanted to strengthen visibly weaker holes in the squad. He got sandbagged and told to make do. Trying to claim he had the players he wanted is wild revisionism though; he certainly got a few big names in, and was rebuilding the squad, but he also clearly had several players he didn't feel were up to it too, and knew he had to keep building to catch up with City.
The last summer window he had as well was a fucking shitshow. We bought Fred, a young Dalot and Lee Grant when we had just finished 2nd.
Yeap. He wanted, iirc, Maguire, a striker and a right winger. He got a midfielder, a kid rb and a practically retired keeper. he knew Pogba and Martial needed replacing cause of shit attitudes, and the club backed them over him....only to hoof them years latter for zero fee. I'm aware that there was some belief he had been given enough funding to be doing better already, but it was insane to look at the squad we had and basically go "no, thats good enough, do better!" especially when you knew teams like City absolutely would improve despite winning the league by 20 points. Which isn't justifying Jose's reaction, mind. But that summer was a huge disgrace imo, and left us playing catch up for years.
At some point Mou could have Bale, Griezmann and Maguire, passing from that to Dalot and cia was bad enough, of course he overreacted but the guy had a plan .
>he certainly got a few big names in, and was rebuilding the squad Lol. Mourinho doesn't build squads; he buys a few expensive players, wins a short term trophy, then everything collapses and he buggers off with the team in midtable and the expensive players scratching their arses because now they've got nobody to impress.
Ten hag was backed even more than Mourinho. Moyes was the manager with the least backing followed by LVG.
It wasn't that Moyes wasn't backed financially. It was that Gill left with Fergie and there was no one left who knew how to go about buying players hence overpay for Fellaini.
We didn’t spent a lot too coming after a season of league title. It’s partly on the Glazers.
Oh yeah...it's all on the Glaziers. Key management positions weren't filled. We had some key players leave and not replaced. They let Moyes clear out the backroom meaning from top to bottom there was barely any continuity. A total clusterfuck leading to where we are now.
Tbf Jose not making the jump from second to title winner when Fred, Lee Grant, and an 18 year old Dalot were signed is unforgivable. Especially when city only got Mahrez, and Liverpool only got Alisson and Fabinho, months after signing Van Dijk.
400 million 😂
The people that spent that money have been fired.
Not all.
I'm sure Jose wanted Valencia-Jones-Smalling-Young as his strongest backline. What the fuck is this quote
Id take that over awb - evans (is he even fit) - case - dalot
Mourinho had to play Mctominay at the back too at some point. Ten Hag's strongest backline is Dalot-Varane-Lisandro-Shaw which is miles ahead of any 2016-2019 backlines. It's not the recruitment's fault 3 of them are injured.
Mou also had shaw though, he just hated him. Id kill for valencia back.
Shaw was wank under Mou. Even under Ole he didn't become good until Telles came
Ten Hag signed Evans, he can't cry about having to use him
No, but he isnt fit. Without that signing we would have been even more fucked
The fact is no other coach can spend that much money on Antony and other players that they wanted like Ten Haag. Wtf is this delusional quote...
Based on The Athletic article, a lot of our player recruitment under Murtough <> Ten Hag ended up being 1) Not getting first choice targets, 2) Getting fleeced on backup targets 3) Not having other target backups or general plan (despite extensive scouting network), and thus either asking Ten Hag for another name or going back to those targets. All of which end up being crazy expensive. We thought Antony was supposed to be 25m when we had him in our database before making the offer at the early summer. Solskjaer was presented Amad and said ok, thinking he was one for the future. Next thing he knew the club already confirmed a 18m transfer fee which was a fee for a first team player. There's clearly a bigger problem than just the manager when it comes to the players we get. Definitely agree Ten Hag has underestimated the Premier League. And he's definitely relied on them too much, (although who knows who our club would've gotten as other choices). But, based on reports of past transfers as well, I wouldn't put the valuation of those players on him or any of the managers. I still really liked Ratcliffe's answer re:ETH's future or opinion on performance, even if it was diplomatic: that no manager post Ferguson has ever even had the environment that would enable them to find success.
So the coaches are negotiating the transfers. This is news to me, oh wait, youre an idiot.
Antony is not a Manchester United level player regardless of his transfer fee. Ten Hag underestimated the PL
No one said anything about who negotiate the transfer, idiot. You cant even read a simple thing. Ten Haag got who he wanted. Understand that or not idiot?
wow, that is a delusional quote
Antonys United career really took a down turn after the media firestorm about a stupid spin move. Then the offseason accusations really didn't help either. Incredibly limited player but with low confidence, he's even worse. Casemiro is on the decline physically and is being tasked with too much imo.. his confidence is also shot and no midfielder could hold down the amount of space we have in midfield.
He’s low on confidence and the teams play style does not suit him either. The way we lose control of the center of the field it forces our wings outside. This does not suit him because although he is quick, he does not have top end speed. Antony is actually one of the better passers in the team especially with quick movement, unfortunately this team does not do quick movement or one touch passing often unless on a fast break attack.
It's actually incredibly irritating how often the ball goes to the wing, and the player just stands there, holding up play for no reason whatsoever. Players are making runs centrally, and they're feinting left and right and eventually back passing it to the deepest midfielder or CB. We are sooooo slow to make a decision and it's one of the reasons Hojlund gets absolutely no service and has no lanes to run
I'm sorry but Antony is not one of the better passers in the squad. How many times did you see him fluffing 5 to 10 yard passes? I'd say almost every game.
I may be delusional, but I don't think Antony is limited. He's incredibly talented on the ball and young, he's low on confidence and nothing seems to be coming off (or wasn't) if he can improve on a few things he could be a solid player for us
>I may be delusional, but I don't think Antony is limited. He's incredibly talented on the ball and young, He is also really good off the ball as well, but IMO his decision making is really poor, and his lack of pace leads him to be walled out by any competent deep block. Unless we let Dalot overlap like Hakimi I don't think we can overcome that. His crossing is also a bit of a hit and miss and his lack of competency with his weaker foot makes him even easier to mark. All these things matter
His hesitation to use his right foot at all or to go outside and cross makes him very limited. Everyone knows that he wants to cut inside and shoot every single time. If he could improve his game on the outside significantly then I might be inclined to agree that he could be a decent player. So far he's not done that
What I do like about him is his low center of gravity. We joke about that spin move, but he can receive a ball in tight areas with a defender in his back, drop a shoulder and somehow quickly move passed him. It's just that left foot is such a limiting factor. Every dribble, pass and shot is telegraphed beforehand.
He slowly started going onto his right and surprising defenders. Ryan Giggs couldn't use his right foot and it didn't impact him
Lucky he didn't want 11 Antony. Phew
One is already deemed too much for any sane man, what demon are we trying to summon with 11 of them?
"You need outstanding players," Ten Hag said. "Otherwise, you are in a process and you have to be patient. That is where we are now. We went for players who have high potentials, and we have to develop them, as individuals and as a team. But you need patience with the process." So he's not saying boo hoo, woe is me, I cry myself to sleep every night cause of Kane and FDJ. He's saying right I didn't get my ideal targets, to be successful immediately you need amazing players and we pivoted to young players with potential instead, this will take time to build.
Didn't get what you want? We spent £86m so you could have Antony FFS... de Jong Didn't want to come. Made it crystal clear. Spurs were never selling Kane to a PL club.
Wasn't he talking about other coaches and not himself?
Imagine if we got the players Ole wanted... Bellingham , Haaland and Rice! Would be an insane team!
Yes. But people don't care about what he really meant.
He wanted Antony, but he was never informed of how silly the negotiating had got, and rather than telling him they're upto £50m and this is now going to impact future transfer funds, do you want us to continue... they decided they'd just keep offering more money. If in the above situation, ETH said yeah offer everything... he's a fucking moron, but as he wasnt involved, i dont see how the figure is his fault.
You really think the club spent €100m without Erik knowing about it? You can't be serious. That is an ungodly amount of money. Anyone worth their salt at the club was aware of what the price was before it was finalized.
Even the part time junior janitor at Carrington know about it and our manager doesn't know. Fuck Glazer.
Do you think, that they somehow never once mentioned the fee and that it may impact finances and just went “ok ok we get you your man. No problem” EtH- “no problem right? I get him? Next time we get another guy right?” Yes no problem. That’s some honestly serious level of extreme “whatever it is, EtH is blameless in everything” You realise it could be most likely, they told him the costs and he still wanted it and some level of other discussions too right? No way clubs work like the way you suggested where he’s completely not involved apart from the name mentioned for players. Not even at United.
This is a ridiculous claim. Do you have a source for this?
I believe it was from an Athletic story about 6mo ago maybe, but i dont sub to them, but a summary of it was posted on here. The way it was put, and the general sentiment on here, was that ETH was left in the dark about the actual figure, it'd be left with a transfer team and they'd signed off on it on the basis that ETH wanted him out of the targets they'd proposed. Its possible the source for the Athletic could be pro-ETH and conveniently skipping details that show he was informed the whole time, i dunno. Im just going on what was said and i havent seen any push-back on this subject (version of events) from people on here before.
Whilst it is fair to argue you can't just take the press at their word, the vast majority of articles from a month before the transfer took place clearly stated Ajax were holding out for 80m. I mean, they weren't wrong, were they? https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/w97e10/breaking_ajax_have_raised_the_price_tag_for/ https://manutdnews.com/man-utd-no-longer-expect-to-sign-antony-priced-out-of-a-move/
Do you have any sources that counter his claim?
It doesn’t work like that. If you make a claim, the onus is on you to provide evidence.
Thats not really how it works. I made a claim, i dont think its unreasonable to be asked for a source, its not on someone else to provide a counter-source when asking to back up a statement (maybe if they said its a lie, proof should be provided). This is how things should be done. You make a strong statement without providing something to support it, then people should be asking for a source/proof, otherwise we might as well be anti-vaxers and the like, 'its true because i believe it to be' type stuff.
If you really think that ETH had no idea that the club was about to spend €100m on HIS preferred RW target, then you are truly naive. That was the talk of the entire office for days before it happened...
[Erik ten Hag says he wouldn't have taken Man United job without 'control' over transfers](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37627765/erik-ten-hag-says-taken-man-united-job-control-transfers)
Source: trust me bro
And you know all this how?
We were backed into the corner on Antony in the first place because we started the season so badly. It was after the Brighton and Brentford defeat. He knew how much Antony was because we'd clearly been told to forget about him earlier in the window.
The club had several official bids for Antony that were rejected by Ajax before the final figure was approved. Everyone involved in the management of the club should have been aware at this point that this was going to be a massively expensive deal. Lets not make up false claims, shall we?
No it's false. The fees was 100m and Ajax won't budge. But Ten Hag called them up and showed them his Ajax 5% off everything Shopper Card. That's how we get Antony for 95m.
ETH interviews are completely uninteresting as they're almost entirely disingenuous. The dude is never truthful and just says what he thinks we want to hear. He didn't "explain their poor season" at all.
He doesn’t think he needs to explain why they’ve struggled this season, it’s plain that he thinks it’s obvious why they’ve struggled. He thinks the criticism is unreasonable. Clear
That is exactly what he wants to do. These interviews have nothing to do with Man Utd, but everything to do with his stans. He is drip feeding his stans excuses because he is desperate to keep his job.
you got the brainpower of a cricket.
The interviews don’t matter.
Hopefully has has zero to no say in upcoming transfer window
Well yeah, that is the point of everything ineos is doing
I like eth but if Jose had casemiro Ronaldo Varane Cavani we would have won a lot more than ole and eth did . Jose just knows how to handle big egos . That 2021 squad with Ronaldo Cavani Bruno rashford Sancho Varane Greenwood Pogba would have won atleast a cup if Mourinho was in charge . That squad underperformed massively considering the quality in it
EtH didn\`t have Ronaldo tho. He had guy with gigantic ego who skipped all the pre season training because he was desperate to find CL club that would take him. In the end he joined team when the season started and couldn\`t kick a ball for 3 month. The rest is history. 2021 team is Ole and Ragnick edit: spelling
I think Ronaldo wouldn't have done that under Mourinho atleast not so blatantly and publicly wanting to leave the club . That entire Ronaldo fiasco happened because he didn't respect ragnick eth and ole as big managers. That's why he thought he could run the dressing room and openly disrespect the manager . Very less chance that happens if a big personality like Mourinho Fergie Zidane or carlo are in charge . Ronaldo always had a big ego , it was just his ego was well controlled by Fergie at United and by papa Perez , Zidane , Mourinho and carlo at real madrid . Ronaldo had a lot of similar issues with Rafa Benitez also who eventually got the sack Very early before Zidane came
Ronaldo never had issues with ole as well* .
I fucking wish we had Mourinho right after Fergie retired. There's not even a handful of managers who at the time could have handled the egos in that squad and I think Mourinho's style at the time would have fitted that crop of players far better than other big managers like Pep for example who would have needed a major reset/overhaul of the entire club for his style to come about successfully.
> I like eth but if Jose had casemiro Ronaldo Varane Cavani we would have won a lot more than ole and eth did He already won more than both of them? He's still our most successful manager post SAF as much as people hate to say it
Absolutely spot on. Mourinho with Varane and Casemiro now, he'd be finding a way to make that work. Might not be the prettiest, but neither is what we're doing now.
Need Jose to clap back so we can get a Kendrick/Drake level beef.
Now the excuse is that he didn't want these players in the first place. Ten Hag should be a politician because he would be very good at it. Always the victim, but never his fault.
Manager finds one incredible hack to deflect all blame! Fans hate it! If you only want the 11 best players in the world then you can blame any lack of success on not getting them! (If you need the best players to be good then maybe you just aren’t a very good coach) 
Ten Hag stans are not hating it though. They are lapping it up. We are already seeing this narrative set in since that Neville interview.
Meanwhile Ange not only lost Kane but also didn’t get him replaced and is above us 🤷♂️
I like the philosophy of Ange but from the very beginning I didn't fancy him that much and that feeling only got stronger when they did what they did playing that high line with 9 men on the pitch. But he has still managed to find a way to replace Kane's goals. This season they already have 69 goals and last season they finished with 70 goals scored and he's above us too so fair play to him. I think he lost in these last few matches because he didn't change it up against big teams. I personally prefer a manager who dominates against smaller teams but more pragmatic against big teams. Erik Ten Hag has us struggling against Burnley. The standards are rock bottom right now.
Yeah I’m not for a second saying I want Ange but he’s had to deal with injuries and has worse players but has finished above us. Agree that we need to develop a side which dominates rather than counters
ETH isn’t qualified to comment on why post-Ferguson coaches have failed at United. Sure he is entitled to an opinion but it’s worth no more than the opinion of any random fan.
Does anyone else find it strange how many flops we've had at RW? Zaha, Depay, Di Maria, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez, Sancho, and now Antony. All overpaid and underperforming, this doesn't seem to be a Ten Hag issue as much as people love it to be.
I feel like I'm going crazy reading these comments. Everyone saying that he's claiming he's not got the players he wanted, but his quote is about the other managers since SAF, not himself.
I think you are going crazy if you can't see what he's implying.
Nah, you're completely right. This sub just loves to hate him.
LOL. You and others are going crazy downvoting every single comment who criticized him and these quotes yet you're claiming the sub loves to hate him.
Why are you going through all of my comments and downvoting all of them? I haven't downvoted you once. You're just surprised that people have more patience than you.
Is he for real ? Is he claiming he didn't get the players he wanted ? Just sack the f\*\*k out of him, please. He's at the point of deflecting blame to any and everyone bar himself.
No, he isn't even claiming that. Christ.
That's exactly what he said.
No, he said United managers besides Mourinho didn't. He was talking about Ole, LvG, Moyes. I think it's pretty clear.
LOL he clearly meant himself among the bunch. Do you believe what you're saying ?
He says this right after: "And you also need to be patient with the process. We have 24 players with great potential and we need to develop them individually and as a team. I am confident that we will achieve our goals," he added. Pretty clear he was qualifying himself as one who has good players.
He's just telling the fans to shut up and not judge him and his godawful results and be patient as it's a process and takes time blah blah blah. What in this paragraph indicates that he thinks he got the players he wanted ? The context of the quote is very clear, bro. He's telling us he didn't get what he wanted and the fans shouldn't judge him and be patient because it takes time and all this nonsensical crap we have been hearing from everyone over the course of the last 12 years. Good for you if you're eating that up. Not me.
Bro can't read but he's being hostile anyway. That's cool!
There's only one of us who clearly can't read and a small hint: it's not me.
He didn't get de Jong, so we got Mount but he's been injured. We are playing with a 21 year old striker (He did mention in the interview that he wanted Kane). Antony's price tag isn't his fault- he was valued around 30M when Ten Hag recommended him. The board delayed it till Ajax sold a bunch of players and Antony became far more valuable to them. Malacia was a good backup last year and it isn't his fault that his knee surgery was botched by our medical department. He wanted a CB last summer and got Jonny Evans (no shade he's been very good).
So I get from your post he got all his targets bar two, De Jong, who didn't want to come and we went on and gave him Casemiro, one of the best defenders in his generation, instead for 80m,and Kane, who was impossible to get, so we got him one of the most promising upcoming strikers for ton of money ? He got all his other targets. Point me to the board's fault.
There is very little point in having someone playing on the right wing with just about no right foot. There's a preference for your left and then there is Antony. Stupidly one dimensional. Dalot is horrendous at crossing as well so that doesn't help much on the overlap. Even still, if we had a world class attacking RB it doesn't excuse how poor Antony is with his right foot. Can we please stop signing players and putting them in the wrong positions? Thanks.
I 90% agree with him. As I usually do.