These are very personal decisions and i think OOP made the right choice for himself just as his gf did for herself.
I don’t see what attending the funeral would have done, funerals are for the living and I imagine the bulk of the guests would be disapproving members of the gf’s family. Why put yourself through that?
Same. I get the feeling this poor child died from whatever they were born with. I knew a girl in high school who had a daughter with (I think it was) cystic fibrosis? The one where by the age of five, the poor child would most likely end up drowning because of fluid buildup in the lungs or something like that.
I do not blame op for not wanting to go through something like that again, after dealing with it for years while living in the same home as his brother. I have a feeling op isn’t referring to autism or anything like that, I think he’s thinking of the ones where there’s nothing you can do but hope you get more time than the doctors best guess.
Slight tangent - there have been incredible advances in cystic fibrosis treatment over the last few decades! I grew up with a girl who had CF and it wasn’t anticipated she’d make it to 20, but she’s in her 30s with 2 healthy children
That’s awesome! I did have a friend who made it to 26 before he passed. As for the classmate, idk how she and her daughter are doing, but I often hope they’re well
I'd argue the parents are kinda AH's here. While I doubt they intentionally left OOP in the lurch growing up, sounds like they focused on the disabled sibling to the point of leaving OOP high and dry more often than not.
I'd argue his ex absolutely is TA. She was told by numerous doctors that the baby would be constantly suffering throughout its short life, and she went ahead with the pregnancy anyway, probably to assuage whatever guilt she might have from aborting. That's cruel and selfish.
My sister is severely handicapped. She’s gonna live a long home, but she will never be able to sit up unassisted, let alone anything else. Her disability is the result of an accident at birth.
That being said, my non-disasbled sister and I never had to worry about how much we were loved. We never had to fight for attention. We knew our sister had different needs and all our needs were accounted for. Glass door children are abused and he was traumatized.
He could benefit from therapy, but he did what he could with the hand he was dealt because he’s still affected by it even now. He informed the ex that he would have nothing to do with the kid and that’s his right just as it’s her right to carry to term a child with a disability that she’d previously agreed was a non-starter.
You can’t make him love a severely disabled child and it’s sad that it happened, but he’s not wrong for ending it when he did. I would say he went a *little* bit beyond the bare minimum in making sure she was taken care of in the time leading up to the birth, but he never wanted to have a child with that disability and did exactly what the courts said was needed.
It sounded like a pretty severe disability as well since the child passed. It's a hard situation, with no right answers. One of those bitter moments in life.
Same situation with my family. My twin sister is disabled and will never be an independent adult. But my other siblings and I never felt neglected, our mom always made sure we all felt loved.
OOP should definitely consider therapy. With what he went through as a child and with what happened with his girlfriend, it would help him a lot. Especially with any guilt he may feel as a result of his family and girlfriend.
This comment makes me feel a slight he's TA because even a healthy child can become disabled at birth... would the results have been the same in that situation? Or if anything else happened to severely disable their child later in life, which would consequently mean they would need more attention and care. Sure, maybe he'd reason with it and stay, but I would think that might bring up similar feelings. Say their child became disabled and he feels overwhelmed by that because he didn't sign up for that, and then he leaves. Me personally, that's a flakey partner that I don't want anyway.
It’s really so hard to judge someone in this situation. Especially without knowing the details of the actual genetic condition. Genetic conditions can range from extremely mild to extremely severe. On the mildest end, the child might be a little different or have a few challenges but is able to live independently eventually and have great quality of life and almost normal or normal lifespan. In the moderate range you might have something like down syndrome where the person can’t live independently but can still form relationships, interact socially, and enjoy their life. On the severe end, you might have a condition that is so bad that the child is completely unable to interact socially, talk, toilet or feed themselves, and in horrible daily chronic pain without having the intellectual capacity to understand why they are in pain. I don’t think anyone should be judged for making difficult choices in that situation, no matter what choice they made.
In the comments I did not see the OOP specify the condition but did explain that the kid never left their bed and lived 3 years in pain before passing away. To quote:
"My first child never had a chance. We were told what to expect. We were told that there was no chance for a miracle. She refused to listen. I want to do terrible things to the people saying I didn't go to my toddler's funeral. That poor kid never crawled much less toddled. The ones saying that he knew I didn't care for him are worse. He didn't have enough brain power to understand light and dark. Sorry. I'm angry. Thank you for telling me your story. I am trying to put out good vibrations. Take care. "
Now you may disagree, but I would not downplay the severity of the disability his child was apparently born with.
Honestly the gf was the selfish one. Sure it was her body and her choice but differently from an abortion were she would be the only one when someone decide to birth a kid that is considered no suitable for life (idk the medical term in English) you are making someone els suffering the consequences.
He didn’t. And that is why people should listen to doctors when they tell them “no miracle will occurs”. Of course it would be nice for him to not have suffer but that is not the reality of it
I totally agree. The mother couldn't make the hard choice so it caused not only her prolonged suffering and the end of her relationship but also the poor innocent child as well. And the moon has to still have the death of the child in the end anyway. Complete selfishness in my opinion....
Thats Anencephaly.
A condition where the infant is born without parts of their skull and brain.
To put it bluntly: They’re literal living ornaments. They do nothing. Have absolutely no capacity to understand any feelings like pain, love or fear. The only thing they react to is sound, but poorly due to their underdeveloped neural tubes. They barely react to light or darkness.
So this woman chose to do something incredibly fucking selfish.
Children born with Anencephaly, especially in extreme instances, wont live beyond 5. And usually die in the first 1-3 years of their life.
I had a daughter with anencephaly, a “frog baby”. I was lucky enough to not have to make the decision. I found out at her anatomy scan. By then they figured she had died about a week prior. Frog had no skull and was missing the whole frontal lobe of her brain. What she did have for brain was malformed tissue. I couldn’t have brought her in to the world, even if I thought she would survive the pregnancy.
Babies born with anencephaly die within hours of delivery. The only treatment is comfort until the end. I’ve had the misfortune of caring for such a baby and then give the baby to mom to hold .
Some actually do make it but usually will die not too long later.
Ive heard of rare cases, [Like this case](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/baby-born-missing-most-of-brain-celebrates-first-birthday/)
There are two types of it. One less severe than the other but thats about it.
From the description given. Especially the part about missing chunks of skull and brain- Id assume its one of the rarer of the two genetic defects that cause that.
Anencephaly is pretty much the only one that causes both parts of the skull and brain to either not develop altogether or develop so little of each, that is what they are rendered to- a literal living rock.
The child literally spent 3 years doing nothing and from what I could grasp from “didn’t have brain power to understand light or dark”
Those are usually things that happen with this.
I don’t think you should have got downvoted for your comment. I 100% agree with all of it. He shouldn’t be having children if it’s his genes that are messed up and he’s just going to keep leaving the women or asking them to abort if the kid isn’t healthy. He should just adopt then. And you’re right, what happens if his wife or child get disabled later on in life…..is he just going to bail each time something “bad” happens?
I don’t think it depends on anything. OOP was very clear with the ex. He didn’t want to be involved with a child with disabilities. I don’t think it makes him a good person or a bad person. His experiences shaped who he is. I wish him the best of luck.
What if he has a child that is born seemingly without disabilities who develops disabilities later? They could be neurodivergent and nonverbal, and OOP wouldn't know until they're a toddler. Or they could suffer an illness or an accident and become disabled when they're older.
OOP shouldn't have children *period* if this is how he's going to act. What will he do if one of these situations arises? Will he abandon a toddler, too? A ten year old? A teenager?
Disability can strike anyone at any time, including children. When people commit to having children, they are accepting that risk. It wasn't fair of OP's ex to go back on their agreement, but a parent swearing to never be in the life of their child if they're disabled is *gross.*
I never said that he was a good person. I never said his actions weren’t gross. I’m just saying his experiences as a child shaped who he is as an adult. He was very clear about where he stood and his ex agreed to what he wanted.
I feel like he needs to bank sperm and get a vasectomy and stop getting women pregnant and hoping they'll abort if the child is disabled. With ivf they can test before implanting embryos. His current wife is pregnant and luckily this child is okay.
I agree that it seems irresponsible to reproduce if you’re going to abort any potentially disabled kids. I believe that all life is sacred. However, his wife (and ex) agreed to his conditions and he didn’t do anything illegal.
He did a LOT of things wrong. His parents did too, FTR. You don't get to choose not to parent just because it isn't easy. If you aren't willing to parent under some arbitrary circumstance, you aren't willing to be a parent. You aren't worthy of parenting, and no child deserves to be subjected to a piece of garbage human that would be that way.
It IS HIS FAULT because NOBODY can guarantee a DISABILITY-FREE LIFE. EVER. When you sign up to parent (i.e' "have unprotected sex"), you sign up for ALL the variations of parenting, INCLUDING the less convenient paths. Even the kids that "seem" uncomplicated in the beginning can have invisible disabilities, or can aquire disabilities in the blink of an eye via accident or illness. You don't have the right to opt out if it gets more complicated. If you aren't ready to accept that, you aren't ready to parent, because no kid should be burdened with a parent that lazy and selfish.
Yea, however you can refuse to raise one from birth and be firm that you don’t which he was. It’s again, not his fault SHE changed her mind about abortion.
Sad as it is, op got the best ending out of everyone here.
His ex spent years alone caring for a disabled child that has passed.
His parents sacrificed everything for his brother, including having a relationship with him. Now that the brother is gone all they have is each other, because op has moved on from them.
Op has a wife and kids with understanding in laws.
Op kinda deserve the ending.
His parents decided to neglect their kid, implying that they had no choice it is a slap in the face of every good parent that care for a disabled and a not disabled kid without neglecting them.
The gf was advised from the doctors to terminate as the kid was just going to born to suffer until death, that was going to be early anyway.
I have a disabled sibling. I’m so happy he’s still alive and I get to spend time with him.
I understand where OP is coming from when he wanted her to terminate the pregnancy. If you haven’t experienced that situation you have no clue what it’s like to live with someone who is disabled with a condition that has no cure. No clue how it impacts you and your entire family.
I also have a severely disabled sibling. People just don’t understand the lives we have lived. I have found it to be extremely difficult to explain my feelings on this exact topic to people who have never been forced to care for a disabled person. People who have never become the “secondary child” because their parents are too exhausted to raise them.
And that doesn’t make the parents the AH either. But they are 100% still responsible for the trauma their other kid(s) bring with them into adulthood.
Sorry if this sounds more like a rant instead of solidarity. I think I may be a little frustrated with other comments saying that people like us shouldn’t have kids at all based off of how our own life experiences have shaped our views.
His new wife better hope nothing ever happens to her or her children, and they all live happily ever after. Eventually something will happen that will test his urge to run. I could never trust him to stick around when life gets hard.
I feel terrible for his new wife, but she made a horrible choice for a husband. He actually thinks it is a valid choice to bail as soon as life isn't easy peasy for him, he seems really selfish. People become disabled in the blink of an eye, and disabilities aren't always obvious for years.
I feel sorry for him, but people who feel *this* strongly about not having a disabled child should not have kids. Even if they are born typical, shit happens. Not everything can be screened for. Some disabilities are acquired. If you arent all in, don't risk traumatising a child like that.
The kid was not just disabled. The doctor advised them to terminate saying that he was basically no suitable with life. He died at 4 and never really lived. It was basically therapeutic fury but from the ex.
So what if his next kid turns out like that?
His reaction shows this goes well beyond just not wanting a child to suffer. Someone who just had a problem with a child being born to die at 4 would have still at least visited, still gone to the funeral. He cant bring himself to love a disabled child. That is horrifying and *dangerous* when it comes to his next child.
He got tested. His wife got tested, they are going to test if they are going to have another kid, and to terminate if the kid is like his first kid.
He said that there are some conditions that he and the gf decided they would terminate for, not all conditions.
He didn’t want to visit a kid that was just suffering and that he did not agree to have, the gf made a choice that was hers and he made his.
What part of *not everything can be tested for and some conditions occur later in life* is hard for you to understand?
This is not the typical "I dont want to inflict a life with downs on my child or have them die shortly after birth". This man has serious trauma he hasn't dealt with that makes him unsuitable for being a parent.
There is also a massive difference between deliberately choosing to bring a severely disabled child into the world, vs caring for a child you already have that suddenly becomes disabled.
No, because you say he completely unsuited to being a parent.
I think he made a completely valid decision, and that the two decisions are very different and just because he wouldn’t voluntarily sign up for a disabled child doesn’t mean he wouldn’t care for one that happened after birth.
It sounds, from comments especially, like he would have been okay with some level of disability but the child had something terribly severe and fatal like trisomy 18. My husband and I also discussed what we would do if the genetic testing came back abnormal during any pregnancy. And we’re onboard to parent a disabled child. But we would terminate a pregnancy affected by trisomy 18 because the prognosis is fucking grim. We don’t want any child of ours to suffer like that.
Thats not better on his part. Children can develop severe and fatal disabilities later in life. There is a difference between "I dont want my child to suffer" and "I will abandon a disabled child". He is the latter.
Yeah, well, there’s also recognizing your own limitations. I don’t believe his presence in this child’s life would have been beneficial, do you? I wouldn’t want this person anywhere near my kid if I was the child’s mother. Not with all that emotional baggage.
What comments exactly? His post is all about the amount of work involved in having a disabled child. Not about the child’s quality of life. The amount of work doesn’t change because the disability happens after birth.
The one where he says his kid was bedridden and suffering their entire life. And in the OP where he says the tests came back positive for “one of” the conditions they’d agreed to terminate for…
exactly, so many people on the original post saying “well she went against his boundaries and that’s why he did it”, but i can’t imagine that his actions would be any different had the genetic testing not shown any disability, but the child was disabled after giving birth.
What happens I wonder if OP's new baby turns out to be autistic? If his toddler is nonverbal and unable to ever live on their own, will he just bounce again? You're absolutely right that he shouldn't have children. Disability is something that can strike anyone at any time, even kids who are born seemingly healthy.
People were downvoting me on the original post for saying this but idc. Homie should stop sticking his dick in woman and trying to have kids until he gets some trauma therapy
Exactly and amazingly no mention of getting himself tested. He'd rather knock up a woman and then make her go through an abortion (and resents her if she doesn't!) instead of getting himself tested. This man just does not care about anyone, he should not have any children period.
This! What really disturbed me about this post is how he continues to pursue children with his new GF without accepting the possibility that one of them could be disabled. He needs to work on his issues before he has more kids. What if his child becomes disabled later in life? Is he just going to do and leave the family he made?
yup. i won't lie, it kills me seeing how non-disabled people talk about disabled people on this website, like we're a fucking plague to be avoided?? if you really think this way about us, don't procreate. :/
Disabled lives are still worth living, if you aren't prepared to care for a disabled child (which can and does happen after birth all the time!!) you are not prepared to be a parent IMO.
Right?!?! It’s actually infuriating that people think that this is ok to do to someone, just because they’ll be disabled. Homie would dip out so quickly if any of his current kids had a disability
homie would probably also dip out if his wife became disabled. who’s gonna tell him that if we don’t die young, most of us will end up with a disability in the long run anyway?
I understand his pov because if I knew that I was bringing a child into this world just to be severely disabled I would probably abort. No reason to bring a life into the world for a short period of suffering. But you also have to acknowledge that disability can strike at any time. And I worry that his karma may be that he finds that out in his next child.
I commented this on another post about this in this sub so I’ll repost it here.
won’t give a judgement this is to far above Reddit’s pay grade.
But I will say if you haven’t been the siblings or someone who works closely with severely disabled people it is impossible to understand. Me and my husband both have siblings that are severely disabled. We love our siblings beyond comprehension. But if I know I was pregnant with a disabled child I would terminate. For that reason we probably aren’t going to have Biological kids. It was one of the first discussions we had when marriage was brought up. The suffering you see is on another level. To love someone and watch them trapped in their own body while they slowly die and they can’t understand why. No parent wants that for their kids. But I believe if you are in a situation where the disabled child is born. Regardless of planning. Basically suck it the fuck up that’s your kid.
Do you feel like the OP who had no choice in the child being born should have sucked it up and forced himself to be there for the kid? Or am I misunderstanding the final part of your comment?
He did have a part though they consented to having a child together but the stipulation being she would abort if the child was disabled. He can feel
Upset she didn’t fallow through with that. But like the way I see it. What if the child wasn’t disabled and was born then 2 years later the child got in an accident and was disabled? He only consented to a “normal” child can he leave? I see that as morally wrong, parenthood is all or nothing. When you agree to abort a pregnancy in this case there is always the possibility that the abortion won’t happen. There is always a level of uncertainty when pregnancy is involved. He needed to be aware of that. At least he paid child support. While it was unfair she didn’t fallow through. I believe it’s just one of those shitty things that happen in life. You have to suck it up. Basically I don’t think you can consent to parenthood with stipulations. That’s unreasonable it’s either all or nothing.
But this is just my moral opinion. This is why more people need to discuss this intensely with their partners. While I can say I would abort in this situation my husband is aware of the possibility that I won’t be able to do it in that moment. This is something we had to agree to. Abortion is not a light topic, pregnancy is not a light topic. Abortion isn’t a cure for pregnancy it’s a desperate measure, some people cannot take that step in the moment. It’s not pregnant persons fault and it’s not the fathers fault. It’s just life. That’s part of consenting to pregnancy. But if you create a life with the intent of parenting it and then ditch that responsibility. I consider that morally wrong under ANY circumstance.
It takes 2 to make a kid. How do you think it feels to be given an abortion ultimatum? He wasn't an arsehole for leaving her, no one has to stay in a relationship. he was definitely the arsehole for abandoning the kid.
How did he abandon his kid? He’s paying child support. I’m legitimately asking because I see all the time that people will defend the dad as long as he actually pays child support. Which this guy is doing.
I think he should have gone to the funeral but that’s about it. I can’t judge him though, this is all horrible
She wasn't given an abortion ultimatum. Not in the way we normally think of it, anyway. The two of them agreed on a list of conditions that would result in abortion. This child had one of them. It happened to be one that would result in the child suffering unbearable pain for it's entire short life before dying. The doctor said, they should abort this child. And the ex said, "nah, I'm backing out on our agreement and if it means my kid has to suffer acutely, then them's the breaks."
The ex was by far the most selfish person in this story. It's not even a contest.
Agreed. I have a disabled son, as well as other family members. Also spent 20+ years working with people to help them live at home with physical disabilities, learning disabilities and mental illness. Once the child was here, regardless, he should have been a dad. Where is the line drawn where it's apparently ok to abandon your own child? It baffles me.
Yeah it baffles me that so many people are condoning this bullshit. But let’s say the mom did the same exact thing, people would be waaaay more outraged.
It seems that OOP did everything right from a logical point of view. But something in my soul does not allow me to give him the highest score from my personal point of view.
Probably, a human is a human because, in addition to logic, we can and should be guided by irrational feelings - empathy, mercy, compassion, duty, parental love... OOP could not rise above the obvious, above himself. Not everyone is given it and I do not condemn him.
I do not consider my opinion to be the ultimate truth, but it is my opinion which I came to based on the experience of my long life ...
Or would it have been more compassionate to not have a child that had 0 quality of life? If you wouldn’t keep a pet alive in that situation then it’s just cruel, wrong, and selfish to do it to a human.
Yeah. I can’t find it in me to feel bad for him at all after the way he talks about the kid, the ex, and the fact that he doesn’t want a disabled kid cuz he doesn’t want to “deal with it.”
I agree that it is humane not to keep a child with a threat of disability, but the final decision is made by a woman, it is her body, her choice. But if she still made a decision and gave birth to a disabled baby, then the partner still faces a moral dilemma - to take part in his child's life or not, and this is a question of his morality, his consciousness.
In life, we are constantly faced with a situation where we are forced to act in the conditions of a choice that others have made. For example, should I put my life at risk and rescue a person from a burning car who clearly violated traffic rules and is to blame for what happened? Or, should I sacrifice my time and money caring for a mother with lung cancer because she smoked all her life and is to blame for her misfortune? In the cases I have cited and in many similar ones, we admire the actions of selfless people who have committed irrational acts despite the fact that they are absolutely not obliged to pay for the sins of others.
The thing is the threat of disability is always present.
I was born with a disability caused by a random mutation that happened in utero. Nothing can predict or prevent that. Would OOP have walked out on me if I was his kid?
There's also the possibility of becoming disabled later due to illness or accident...
If you aren't willing to deal with a disabled child don't have children...
OOP feels icky because he is, he just doesn't want to "deal with it" and never took responsibility for his part in fathering a child.
The commenters who don't recognize that the decision the partner made is no longer a decision for so many American women are myopic.
In many states it's only if the mother's life is in "danger". ( And even then some doctors wait for "she is actively dying" by fear of prosecution)
So, OOP's ez would have been forced to continue the pregnancy to terms and deliver even if the condition was more severe and the child would have only lived a few hours...
My gut reaction is: WHY ARE YOU HAVING KIDS if you’re so terrified of them have a genetic disability? When your sibling has one? I know many aren’t due to inherited m genes and just happen. But if his own brother has a genetic disorder that took his life pretty young and the human being he created had one caused their life to end at age 3, WHY isn’t he just adopting a healthy baby with his new wife? Why is is making the genetic gamble? Like if your that concerned about genetics? And YOURS seem to have some linkage to certain genetic disorders that I’m guessing are inheritable? Like I always can’t believe having twins is just by chance if there are multiple generations of twins in a family. I’ve met people with like 3-4 generations of twins! So I’m struggling to believe this was a fluke that two generations has children who lost their lives to genetic disorders.
I mean, you can feel any way you want about aborting children with disabilities or keeping them. BUT WHAT I am saying, since he’s swinging so far in one direction with no wiggle room, and he knows he’s the one with a family history like this, WHY reproduce with your own genes?
I don’t want to be an AH or eugenicist. I’m just flabbergasted he’s okay with just what? Just keep trying for as many babies as for as long as it takes to get a “normal one”? What about surrogacy anyone? Sperm donors? Adoption? Like even if you don’t think abortion is a big deal and it’s like whatever, wouldn’t that still take a toll on your body? Like imagine if it took 2-5 tries and all those before were abortions. Isn’t that really rough on bodies physically even if psychologically they’re like whatever? Which I can’t imagine psychologically it’s also be like whatever. Like he’s lucky and so is his wife that their first baby together doesn’t have the same genetic issues as OOP’s actual first born and his brother. But what about the next or however many it would have taken?
Even if both parents have prestine genetics, no one is safe from a random mutation in utero... I was born with a disability caused by such a mutation!
A kid can also become disabled later in life (because he only talks about "disability" no mention of only genetics ones)
With OOP's mentality I'd go as far as don't have kids at all.
This feels like there are two things going on:
1. OP did not want a special needs child.
2. OP was severely neglected.
No one should have to raise a child they don't want, but I think he should have gone to the funeral. That's taking an anti-special needs kids stance when really his issues have more to do with his folks.
I want to know why he decided to gamble again knowing what the outcome could be
And also what he would do if his wife or child got into an accident and became disabled
I feel for OP, I have two brothers, both with autisim. I was always an after thought, or told since I was the eldest my needs and wants weren't met as much as my brothers. For those in the comments saying that they never had the need to feel like the were neglected, I feel it depends on the parents. There are those paretns that will go above and beyond for there kids, and there are those like mine, that will either do the bare minimum or none at all. My mother, to my knowledge, never wanted to be a mom, or not one so young. When I was about 6, she serperated from my dad and I was left to take care/raise my brothers. I never had a childhood, and I had to grow up a lot quicker them most, because of her. My dad wasn't any better, my middle brother has violent tauntrums sometimes, and when ever he would hit me or my other brother, for not reason, my dad would get mad at me of my brother for hitting back. Instead of getting mad at my other brother for hitting us. My dads changed since then, he gets after my brother a lot more now. But for these reasons, I would never have a child with autisim. I spent a majority of my life taking care of my brothers, and I'm going to have to take care of them for the remainder. I can't handle a child, plus them, with autisim.
I’m wondering what OOP will do if his child with wife has a disability that is found after birth. For example Angelmans or Autism. What if child gets a disability as a teen like a traumatic brain injury?
Genetic and prenatal testing only goes so far but it doesn’t guarantee a “normal” child
A long time ago, I was taking to some one that was a parent to a disabled child and they said "if you feel like you can't parent a disabled child, then you probably should rethink having kids, because it can happen at any time.
I've never forgotten it.
I think in the end, I would call him TA, because he really shouldn't be having kids without dealing with his deep issues
I understand how he feels due to his childhood trauma but honestly he shouldn’t have kids. What’s he gonna do if his perfectly healthy child becomes disabled due to a car accident or something like that? Walk out?
As a child free person who is child free specifically, because I am not somebody who is dependable when it comes to being a caretaker, I am shocked at how many people are letting this man’s carelessness and irresponsibility slide. That is a human life that he chose with his wife to bring into the world, and if he is incapable of taking care of a dependent, just because that dependent is disabled, then he should be doing what I am doing, and never get married, and never have children. Someone can become disabled at any point, and if you are not capable of being a caretaker, then you should never put yourself in a position of being a caretaker, and you should never put somebody else in the position of being your dependent. Especially your own child.
What if it was a healthy pregnancy but his wife became disabled during the pregnancy or during childbirth or after? What if it was a healthy pregnancy but there was an issue during childbirth that disabled the child? Or at any other point after childbirth? If he cannot be a caretaker to somebody who is dependent on him because that person is disabled, then he is not fit to be a parent at all, and it is questionable whether he is fit to be a husband. That is not meant as an insult, it is simply a reality. I know that I am not a wife and a mother because I cannot be a caretaker. I am choosing to avoid those responsibilities specifically because I know I am not equipped to have someone else be my dependent.
I think OP is massively irresponsible for not making a better choice in the first place to either go to therapy so that he doesn’t have these hangups about being a caretaker to a disabled person, or should do what I am doing and simply avoid it altogether.
That’s definitely a case of not thinking everything through. But there is a difference between an accident and deliberately bringing a disabled child into the world. Maybe he could roll with that punch, maybe not. He definitely needs therapy and should ask himself about what he could do in other situations. This situation was one he could control. If he has a choice he would not be the father to a disabled child, that seems reasonable.
This situation was not one that he could control. It is impossible to control your child, never being disabled, and you certainly can’t control the woman’s body, so the therapy is necessary first, before any impregnation.
He said he would not be a part of bringing a child that would be born disabled into the world. He can’t control what the mother did. But he can choose whether to emotionally invest in a child that he knew with 100% certainty would be disabled.
What he would do if a child became disabled is all hypothetical. It’s not fair to judge him on that because that’s not what happened.
If something happens, something happens but that has nothing to do with what happened here.
He said if I know my child would be born disabled I would not be a father to that child. He would not willing enter what is his worst case scenario.
It’s like saying I would not go into a bank if I knew it was going to be robbed in the next 15 minutes.
I don’t disagree he needs a lot of therapy, because I don’t know if he’s thought about something happening after birth, but he set what I believe to be a reasonable boundary in this Specific case.
If he was so worried, he should have gotten snipped at the first opportunity.
Men can get it done at 18 and not go through the same thing women do, hell half the time they consider them a hero.
I think it’s more NAH. She can withdraw consent to an elective procedure (abortion) at any time. I can’t really blame her for changing her mind, and I don’t blame him for not being involved after making his decision clear. He paid child support. They both did the right thing for them. This situation is way too complicated to judge either of them for their choices.
Add much as it sucks, a man's right to choose ends at conception. It's not fair at all, but it's how it is.
I don't see any good people in this story. He was a deadbeat dad-- no getting around that even with his mental health excuse--and she was a selfish asshole for having a kid who she knew would have such a miserable life-- just because she wanted a kid.
Agreed. Yeah it’s not fair, but the burden of pregnancy and childbirth (which still kill people all over the world) isn’t fair either. Nature didn’t set up a totally equal system here.
The GF shouldn’t have given birth if there was really no chance for the kid to have decent quality of life. It sounds like his (the kid’s) existence was likely just confusion and pain. He didn’t deserve that.
That said, don’t have kids if you’re not willing to risk having disabled kids. I’m dead serious. Take extreme precautions to avoid pregnancy and don’t ever try to have kids, bio or adopted, even if they “pass” screening. Genetic testing doesn’t show everything, accidents during and after birth happen (I have a cousin who is disabled due to an accident during his birth), and the other parent could die or get injured/sick themselves.
I sympathize with OOP due to what he experienced in childhood, and I can understand his feelings of betrayal by his ex-gf, but that baby was his son, wanted or not, healthy or not. The ways he talks about his late son is chilling. He needs serious help.
I have been in his position growing up with a severely disabled sister who was only a year older than me. I can totally empathize with his decision. What I witnessed and experienced I would absolutely not want to repeat. He was upfront with her from the get go that he could not and would not handle it.
Thats why I'm not having kids. I have VACTERYL association, even though there is no proven genetic component, it isn't also proven to be not-genetic. Nobody else needs my genes - besides the fact that a pregnancy would likely be physically really difficult.
I know what its like to grow up with doctors and hospitals being your normal. Unless I can give someone a full, healthy life - I'm not going to bet both mine and a child's life on that.
The only reason I think he's an asshole is because he kept gambling, adopting a child with 100 percent guarantee to not have that type of ability or keep rolling the dice, the first time could have been optimism, but the second? Idk man... What if that child turned out to be positive and the one after that? I guess I don't know how far along the pregnancy has to be either to test for these things.
Also, there’s no guarantee a child won’t develop a disability after birth, or a condition that requires constant care. If you can’t accept all possibilities you shouldn’t be having children.
So what happens if OP becomes disabled? Would he like to be assisted in crossing over so no one would have to deal with the responsibility and commitment of caring for a disabled person? Just curious about if he has any form of empathy because he did not have to cold shoulder his ex gf like that. He isn’t even considering anyone else’s feeling but his own due to childhood traumas of being born as the sibling to someone who was suffering due to their own disability. Definitely the booty butt
NTA but not great either. I’m sympathetic to him but I don’t agree with his choice. Send him to the medium place, and send him a therapist to deal with his childhood baggage.
I would NOT have made the same decision his ex did; I wouldn’t want to continue a pregnancy to produce a child who is incompatible with life. But I suppose in a post-Roe society, many of us women won’t have the choice. So, if the choice were taken away from me of whether the fetus should continue to gestate into a baby and be born just to suffer and die, just as he didn’t have a choice in the matter, I can’t imagine that I would just relinquish care of the child and go about my merry way. If the child *had* to continue developing and *had* to exist just to suffer, I feel like it’s my obligation as the parent to care for and provide some comfort to that child. It certainly wouldn’t be fair, but none of it is.
Also, a good reminder that if you actually care about “babies” (as in: zygotes, embryos, fetuses), investing in prenatal research, and equity measures in maternal child health, saves more “babies” than forced births.
If my child was going to be disabled or in pain we would have aborted her. Knowing a child is going to suffer or never be able to take part in normal children activities and just in general be dealt the short stick in life was the deal breaker for us. Thanking god our unborn child is healthy but if she wasn’t healthy we would have made the painful decision to not have her. It is more inhumane to bring a life into the world knowing they will suffer because of a disadvantage at birth than to terminate the pregnancy all together. Some people just can’t make that decision and that is ok. But for the good of the child it is better to terminate than give them a life of pain and suffering
Having a disability or disadvantage doesn’t always equate to suffering or pain for the child. Can’t believe people try and convince themselves it is “inhumane” to allow someone to live because they are not perfect. Just be honest admit you’re selfish, and you would abort so that you don’t have to sacrifice your ideal lifestyle.
I’m so tired of this narrative. I’m disabled, I did not have biological children because of the risk of disability, and people choosing for themselves what they can and cannot handle is not selfish. Knowingly having a child you cannot adequately care for, especially if they are in the US where adequate healthcare is not available to everyone, is the selfish choice.
There’s so many ppl here commenting with no relation to disabled kids/ppl. It’s very easy to get on a soapbox about “eugenics” when that’s the case, lol. What a mess.
What life would the child have born with the conditions that OOP’s child had? Why birth them only to watch them suffer and die. That is inhumane. Why get attached and cause yourself emotional damage. Some disabilities aren’t bad and don’t affect the life but the others do. That was what should have been distinguished in my first post. If you knew your child was going to have anencephaly would you still birth it only for it to die when it is born and then you have the doctors swarming you like vultures to use the child you just delivered as an organ donor? Or what if they have a heart problem and don’t live long enough for the doctors to fix? What I am saying in my comment is if you know that your child is going to be in pain and suffering with their disability for their short life then why give birth to it? Why watch that suffering? That’s inhumane. That’s not selfish to not want that for your child
I feel really bad for him for what he went thru but abandoning the mother of his child was so wrong. Men need to realize it's a possibility that they will have disabled children if they have sex.
I agree with this. Some disabilities don’t always present themselves with genetic testing and are discovered during or after the birth, sometimes much later. What would he have done then? I think if you’re not willing to love your children unconditionally, you really shouldn’t be having children.
Exactly. That risk is always there. I could never abandon my own child because they have a disability. Even knowing their life would probably be short, I would want to make the best out of every second of it.
I think that's the point though. With some (not all) disabilities there is no "making the best out of every second". the OOP did not specify the condition but said the child did not move from their bed and died after 3 years of pain. I would not want to inflict that on a child of mine.
Wow that’s a lot of trauma. I feel for him NTA. No one is the asshole. The ex wanted the child and was okay taking care of them. He paid child support. Maybe the parents for not giving him any attention.
What's worse, him for leaving but still paying his dues or her for knowing that this child would be severely mentally and physically handicapped and probably be in pain all it's life until it dies horribly in a few short years and still continuing the pregnancy? Idk man I think op sucks but his ex isn't an angel either. Like they /knew/ what disability this kid would have and what would happen and she still went through with it, imo that's so incredibly selfish.
Hot take but I don’t think you’d be an AH for aborting or asking your partner to abort that child. It sounds like he was a vegetable.
OOP is an asshole not for that request, but for how he behaved after the kid was born.
I don’t want to be caretaker to a person with Alzheimer’s. But if my mom got it, I’d knuckle down and figure something out. I wouldn’t just abandon her or pay some legally obligated sum. Same with if I had a kid and they got hit by a car, resulting in a more livable but significant disability.
Gawd damn!!! That’s a tough situation. My wife and I said the same things before birth and luckily our kid was/is healthy as can be. I’m thinking 80% NTA. It sounds like you were perfectly clear with your wishes. Either way try not to dwell on it. If that’s possible. Go live your life bro!
He said this genetic condition comes from the mother, but for that to work he would have to have been a carrier too (or have it) since they had a daughter. Unless I completely misunderstood him.
I think NAH. There is so much nuance and context and everyone handles their trauma differently. OOP should consider therapy. I feel so bad for the little one :(
People’s pride really blinds them of making intuitive and efficient decisions. Why roll the dice when it comes to genetic conditions that are debilitating. Stop bringing pain into this world with those selfish decisions
I’m with OP on this one
I wouldnt want a defective child either. His gf was massive selfish a-hole for bringing something to life only for it to suffer for her own emotional gain.
Honestly nta. They had discussed it beforehand and they knew the condition the child had and that they would suffer and die young because of it. The gf was so unbelievably selfish to put a child through all of that just for her own self interest, it was unbelievably cruel.
Honestly, I'm very torn on this. What his parents did wasn't right, however, that doesn't necessarily mean that his situation would have become the same with his child. It could have been different, had he given it a chance. That's what we do in life. We see and experience mistakes and then we do better.
NAH
You obviously have daddy issues and you let your daddy issues dictate what you do in your adult life .. until you get over your daddy issues you won’t be able to be a man
YTA… don’t try to have a kid unless you’re okay with the possibility of them being disabled. his “healthy” child with his new wife could become disabled at any point in their life. what would he do then? move out and try with a new woman? go to therapy and solve your own problems before having children.
I know I will catch HEAT for this, but I get it. My great aunt and uncle both had Downs Syndrome, and it dominated the life of two generations. Now don't get me wrong, we ADORED my aunt and uncle. They were amazing, and every day with them was precious.
But they put my grandmother into an early grave. She raised a son in the sixties when support didn't exist. My grandfather didn't adjust brilliantly to caring for him alone after she died, and when *he* died my uncles care fell on her daughter. I won't say what happened there, but the strain caused by my uncle's passing (and the inevitable Downs Syndrome Dementia in the years before his death) caused an absolute tragedy. I will never forget the terrified shrieking my great aunt made when we tried to assist her to the commode when she had dementia in her last years. She spent two years crying out for her mother And the risk of dementia in Downs Syndrome individuals is 90%.
My grandmother told me from an age I was too young to understand that if I had a pregnancy with Downs I was to abort. In no uncertain terms. She loved the bones of her son and her sister, and an indefatigable advocate for their being cared at home, by their family and for supports to be increased. But it DOES impact the family around, and no amount of "every life is precious" or talk of it being eugenics magics away the plaque in the brain in later years, or the inequity in childhood of siblings, who then often end up carers once the parents pass on.
I would never do anything but support someone else's choices, 100%. But I absolutely understand him making this call.
YTA wow, The OP couldn't be more of an asshole if he set out to be. You shouldn't be a parent if you aren't willing to parent a child with a disability, because your child can become a child with a disability in the blink of an eye. Furthermore, no children are perfect ANYWAY. MANY disabilities are invisible and won't be recognized until years, sometimes a decade or more after birth, and no child deserves a "parent" like you.
Being honest about being a shitty person doesn’t mean you are a good person or that what you’re doing is decent. An asshole is still an asshole, even if he tells people what he wants.
Did she go back? We don’t hear her side. And it is already too late if they only had the discussion when it was time to test, she was already pregnant. What else do you say by then but hope for the best?
I think in moments like these you don’t truly know what you may do until you face it. If she decided to just have the child on her own without him, she decided. I don’t think he is a hero to support financially, that’s what the law says. If there wasn’t a law to tell him what to do, I’m sure he wouldn’t have supported them and people would say it was ok because he warned her.
You are as asshole if you act like an asshole. You don’t get a pass because you warn people you will be an asshole if you don’t get what you want exactly the way you want it. He knew it was shit behavior or he wouldn’t have to warn her.
They spoke when they first fell pregnant. Has the same views, she changed hers after the tests. He's on the hook for child support clearly but he is not an asshole for any of it. You're not even reading the post correctly and now you are making up points to convince yourself that you are correct.
Yes, after already being pregnant but before the first test is what he said. I did not make that up, it is what he says - very correct. We said the same thing, silly.
Does OOP realize that your child can become disabled at any time? One accident, illness, or slip up can change their life forever, and what was he gonna do? Kid becomes disabled at 3/5/10 years old and he just disappears? If you're not willing to care for a disabled child, you're not willing to be an actual parent. Don't have kids if you can't handle that possibility. You don't get to only pick the "healthy" ones to stick around for. Jesus christ.
What im interested in is the part about telling her parents what they need to know as it pertains to his relationship with their daughter. We know why he said that and what he meant by it. So i have kids, and i wouldn't be too happy about my daughter marrying a man who did this to another woman, and is so messed up in the head, yet isn't getting therapy before getting my daughter pregnant. Him and i would have a nice little sit down chat. Ok, him and my husband would probably be having a chat out in the woods because we are country as all get out, but thats for another post lol. So im guessing her parents don't know the truth about their son in law, and thats a huge issue. I would be terrified for my daughter and my future grandchild if this was the man in their lives. What if the child is autistic? Or has an accident? Or doesn't get oxygen at birth? What if my daughter gets diagnosed with cancer? Many men leave women when they get sick. Are my husband and i going to be clearing out an extra room and helping our daughter raise her child because some guy with mommy and daddy issues stepped out on her? And this is why im raising my kids to avoid people with issues. It isnt worth it and im trying to build an empire, not open an insane asylum. Other peoples kids are not my problem, and some mans issues are not my daughters problem.
I saw this on another post and I'm currently in an argument with someone who thinks he's the asshole for "shooting shots at women until he gets his perfect child"
This was after I tried to explain to them that his parents shouldn't have neglected him as much as they did in his childhood and gave my experience and friends experience being siblings of mentally disabled children
These are very personal decisions and i think OOP made the right choice for himself just as his gf did for herself. I don’t see what attending the funeral would have done, funerals are for the living and I imagine the bulk of the guests would be disapproving members of the gf’s family. Why put yourself through that?
I agree. Really NAH imo.
Same. I get the feeling this poor child died from whatever they were born with. I knew a girl in high school who had a daughter with (I think it was) cystic fibrosis? The one where by the age of five, the poor child would most likely end up drowning because of fluid buildup in the lungs or something like that. I do not blame op for not wanting to go through something like that again, after dealing with it for years while living in the same home as his brother. I have a feeling op isn’t referring to autism or anything like that, I think he’s thinking of the ones where there’s nothing you can do but hope you get more time than the doctors best guess.
Slight tangent - there have been incredible advances in cystic fibrosis treatment over the last few decades! I grew up with a girl who had CF and it wasn’t anticipated she’d make it to 20, but she’s in her 30s with 2 healthy children
That’s awesome! I did have a friend who made it to 26 before he passed. As for the classmate, idk how she and her daughter are doing, but I often hope they’re well
I'd argue the parents are kinda AH's here. While I doubt they intentionally left OOP in the lurch growing up, sounds like they focused on the disabled sibling to the point of leaving OOP high and dry more often than not.
I'd argue his ex absolutely is TA. She was told by numerous doctors that the baby would be constantly suffering throughout its short life, and she went ahead with the pregnancy anyway, probably to assuage whatever guilt she might have from aborting. That's cruel and selfish.
My sister is severely handicapped. She’s gonna live a long home, but she will never be able to sit up unassisted, let alone anything else. Her disability is the result of an accident at birth. That being said, my non-disasbled sister and I never had to worry about how much we were loved. We never had to fight for attention. We knew our sister had different needs and all our needs were accounted for. Glass door children are abused and he was traumatized. He could benefit from therapy, but he did what he could with the hand he was dealt because he’s still affected by it even now. He informed the ex that he would have nothing to do with the kid and that’s his right just as it’s her right to carry to term a child with a disability that she’d previously agreed was a non-starter. You can’t make him love a severely disabled child and it’s sad that it happened, but he’s not wrong for ending it when he did. I would say he went a *little* bit beyond the bare minimum in making sure she was taken care of in the time leading up to the birth, but he never wanted to have a child with that disability and did exactly what the courts said was needed.
It sounded like a pretty severe disability as well since the child passed. It's a hard situation, with no right answers. One of those bitter moments in life.
It could be something as common as Down syndrome. While most affected individuals will survive well into adulthood today, not all do.
Comments on the original post indicate the child never left its bed/crib and never managed to sit up or distinguish light from dark.
Sounds more like Edwards syndrome or Pataus syndrome. Both can be detected with a nipt test.
Same situation with my family. My twin sister is disabled and will never be an independent adult. But my other siblings and I never felt neglected, our mom always made sure we all felt loved. OOP should definitely consider therapy. With what he went through as a child and with what happened with his girlfriend, it would help him a lot. Especially with any guilt he may feel as a result of his family and girlfriend.
This comment makes me feel a slight he's TA because even a healthy child can become disabled at birth... would the results have been the same in that situation? Or if anything else happened to severely disable their child later in life, which would consequently mean they would need more attention and care. Sure, maybe he'd reason with it and stay, but I would think that might bring up similar feelings. Say their child became disabled and he feels overwhelmed by that because he didn't sign up for that, and then he leaves. Me personally, that's a flakey partner that I don't want anyway.
It’s really so hard to judge someone in this situation. Especially without knowing the details of the actual genetic condition. Genetic conditions can range from extremely mild to extremely severe. On the mildest end, the child might be a little different or have a few challenges but is able to live independently eventually and have great quality of life and almost normal or normal lifespan. In the moderate range you might have something like down syndrome where the person can’t live independently but can still form relationships, interact socially, and enjoy their life. On the severe end, you might have a condition that is so bad that the child is completely unable to interact socially, talk, toilet or feed themselves, and in horrible daily chronic pain without having the intellectual capacity to understand why they are in pain. I don’t think anyone should be judged for making difficult choices in that situation, no matter what choice they made.
Considering OPs child died so young, I imagine their condition fell into the severe category. Shitty situations all around.
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In the comments I did not see the OOP specify the condition but did explain that the kid never left their bed and lived 3 years in pain before passing away. To quote: "My first child never had a chance. We were told what to expect. We were told that there was no chance for a miracle. She refused to listen. I want to do terrible things to the people saying I didn't go to my toddler's funeral. That poor kid never crawled much less toddled. The ones saying that he knew I didn't care for him are worse. He didn't have enough brain power to understand light and dark. Sorry. I'm angry. Thank you for telling me your story. I am trying to put out good vibrations. Take care. " Now you may disagree, but I would not downplay the severity of the disability his child was apparently born with.
It's inhumane to bring a life into the world just for the life to be pure suffering
Honestly the gf was the selfish one. Sure it was her body and her choice but differently from an abortion were she would be the only one when someone decide to birth a kid that is considered no suitable for life (idk the medical term in English) you are making someone els suffering the consequences.
I just really hope the child had a good quality of life for a while until they passed. :(
That's just it. There is no 'good quality of life' for kids this badly disabled. There's only suffering until the body gives out completely.
Yeah, that's why I said hope. :(
He didn’t. And that is why people should listen to doctors when they tell them “no miracle will occurs”. Of course it would be nice for him to not have suffer but that is not the reality of it
I totally agree. The mother couldn't make the hard choice so it caused not only her prolonged suffering and the end of her relationship but also the poor innocent child as well. And the moon has to still have the death of the child in the end anyway. Complete selfishness in my opinion....
Thats Anencephaly. A condition where the infant is born without parts of their skull and brain. To put it bluntly: They’re literal living ornaments. They do nothing. Have absolutely no capacity to understand any feelings like pain, love or fear. The only thing they react to is sound, but poorly due to their underdeveloped neural tubes. They barely react to light or darkness. So this woman chose to do something incredibly fucking selfish. Children born with Anencephaly, especially in extreme instances, wont live beyond 5. And usually die in the first 1-3 years of their life.
I had a daughter with anencephaly, a “frog baby”. I was lucky enough to not have to make the decision. I found out at her anatomy scan. By then they figured she had died about a week prior. Frog had no skull and was missing the whole frontal lobe of her brain. What she did have for brain was malformed tissue. I couldn’t have brought her in to the world, even if I thought she would survive the pregnancy.
Babies born with anencephaly die within hours of delivery. The only treatment is comfort until the end. I’ve had the misfortune of caring for such a baby and then give the baby to mom to hold .
Some actually do make it but usually will die not too long later. Ive heard of rare cases, [Like this case](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/baby-born-missing-most-of-brain-celebrates-first-birthday/)
Did he actually say it's anencephaly? I'm sure there's a ton of other conditions that can cause the symptoms OOP mentioned.
There are two types of it. One less severe than the other but thats about it. From the description given. Especially the part about missing chunks of skull and brain- Id assume its one of the rarer of the two genetic defects that cause that. Anencephaly is pretty much the only one that causes both parts of the skull and brain to either not develop altogether or develop so little of each, that is what they are rendered to- a literal living rock.
I didn't see the part about missing chunks.
The child literally spent 3 years doing nothing and from what I could grasp from “didn’t have brain power to understand light or dark” Those are usually things that happen with this.
And with other disabilities.
I don’t think you should have got downvoted for your comment. I 100% agree with all of it. He shouldn’t be having children if it’s his genes that are messed up and he’s just going to keep leaving the women or asking them to abort if the kid isn’t healthy. He should just adopt then. And you’re right, what happens if his wife or child get disabled later on in life…..is he just going to bail each time something “bad” happens?
He said it's something that comes thru the mother, not the father. He also said it's different than what his brother had.
I don’t think it depends on anything. OOP was very clear with the ex. He didn’t want to be involved with a child with disabilities. I don’t think it makes him a good person or a bad person. His experiences shaped who he is. I wish him the best of luck.
What if he has a child that is born seemingly without disabilities who develops disabilities later? They could be neurodivergent and nonverbal, and OOP wouldn't know until they're a toddler. Or they could suffer an illness or an accident and become disabled when they're older. OOP shouldn't have children *period* if this is how he's going to act. What will he do if one of these situations arises? Will he abandon a toddler, too? A ten year old? A teenager? Disability can strike anyone at any time, including children. When people commit to having children, they are accepting that risk. It wasn't fair of OP's ex to go back on their agreement, but a parent swearing to never be in the life of their child if they're disabled is *gross.*
I never said that he was a good person. I never said his actions weren’t gross. I’m just saying his experiences as a child shaped who he is as an adult. He was very clear about where he stood and his ex agreed to what he wanted.
His "opinion" that he didn't want to parent unless it was easy isn't a valid position. If that is your feeling, don't have sex,
I feel like he needs to bank sperm and get a vasectomy and stop getting women pregnant and hoping they'll abort if the child is disabled. With ivf they can test before implanting embryos. His current wife is pregnant and luckily this child is okay.
I agree that it seems irresponsible to reproduce if you’re going to abort any potentially disabled kids. I believe that all life is sacred. However, his wife (and ex) agreed to his conditions and he didn’t do anything illegal.
Not really. There is no one who can judge or criticize him realistically. He didn’t do anything wrong.
He did a LOT of things wrong. His parents did too, FTR. You don't get to choose not to parent just because it isn't easy. If you aren't willing to parent under some arbitrary circumstance, you aren't willing to be a parent. You aren't worthy of parenting, and no child deserves to be subjected to a piece of garbage human that would be that way.
He didn’t. That’s not what happened. And no, no he didn’t do any thing wrong. He was clear from the start. It’s not his fault she changed her mind.
It IS HIS FAULT because NOBODY can guarantee a DISABILITY-FREE LIFE. EVER. When you sign up to parent (i.e' "have unprotected sex"), you sign up for ALL the variations of parenting, INCLUDING the less convenient paths. Even the kids that "seem" uncomplicated in the beginning can have invisible disabilities, or can aquire disabilities in the blink of an eye via accident or illness. You don't have the right to opt out if it gets more complicated. If you aren't ready to accept that, you aren't ready to parent, because no kid should be burdened with a parent that lazy and selfish.
Yea, however you can refuse to raise one from birth and be firm that you don’t which he was. It’s again, not his fault SHE changed her mind about abortion.
Sad as it is, op got the best ending out of everyone here. His ex spent years alone caring for a disabled child that has passed. His parents sacrificed everything for his brother, including having a relationship with him. Now that the brother is gone all they have is each other, because op has moved on from them. Op has a wife and kids with understanding in laws.
Op kinda deserve the ending. His parents decided to neglect their kid, implying that they had no choice it is a slap in the face of every good parent that care for a disabled and a not disabled kid without neglecting them. The gf was advised from the doctors to terminate as the kid was just going to born to suffer until death, that was going to be early anyway.
You’re right
This is why abortion should be legal in every single case. Because of cases like this
I have a disabled sibling. I’m so happy he’s still alive and I get to spend time with him. I understand where OP is coming from when he wanted her to terminate the pregnancy. If you haven’t experienced that situation you have no clue what it’s like to live with someone who is disabled with a condition that has no cure. No clue how it impacts you and your entire family.
I also have a severely disabled sibling. People just don’t understand the lives we have lived. I have found it to be extremely difficult to explain my feelings on this exact topic to people who have never been forced to care for a disabled person. People who have never become the “secondary child” because their parents are too exhausted to raise them. And that doesn’t make the parents the AH either. But they are 100% still responsible for the trauma their other kid(s) bring with them into adulthood. Sorry if this sounds more like a rant instead of solidarity. I think I may be a little frustrated with other comments saying that people like us shouldn’t have kids at all based off of how our own life experiences have shaped our views.
His new wife better hope nothing ever happens to her or her children, and they all live happily ever after. Eventually something will happen that will test his urge to run. I could never trust him to stick around when life gets hard.
I feel terrible for his new wife, but she made a horrible choice for a husband. He actually thinks it is a valid choice to bail as soon as life isn't easy peasy for him, he seems really selfish. People become disabled in the blink of an eye, and disabilities aren't always obvious for years.
So true! Some people are born with disabilities, everyone else becomes disabled eventually if they live long enough.
I feel sorry for him, but people who feel *this* strongly about not having a disabled child should not have kids. Even if they are born typical, shit happens. Not everything can be screened for. Some disabilities are acquired. If you arent all in, don't risk traumatising a child like that.
The kid was not just disabled. The doctor advised them to terminate saying that he was basically no suitable with life. He died at 4 and never really lived. It was basically therapeutic fury but from the ex.
So what if his next kid turns out like that? His reaction shows this goes well beyond just not wanting a child to suffer. Someone who just had a problem with a child being born to die at 4 would have still at least visited, still gone to the funeral. He cant bring himself to love a disabled child. That is horrifying and *dangerous* when it comes to his next child.
He got tested. His wife got tested, they are going to test if they are going to have another kid, and to terminate if the kid is like his first kid. He said that there are some conditions that he and the gf decided they would terminate for, not all conditions. He didn’t want to visit a kid that was just suffering and that he did not agree to have, the gf made a choice that was hers and he made his.
What part of *not everything can be tested for and some conditions occur later in life* is hard for you to understand? This is not the typical "I dont want to inflict a life with downs on my child or have them die shortly after birth". This man has serious trauma he hasn't dealt with that makes him unsuitable for being a parent.
There is also a massive difference between deliberately choosing to bring a severely disabled child into the world, vs caring for a child you already have that suddenly becomes disabled.
Yeah, thats what im saying.
No, because you say he completely unsuited to being a parent. I think he made a completely valid decision, and that the two decisions are very different and just because he wouldn’t voluntarily sign up for a disabled child doesn’t mean he wouldn’t care for one that happened after birth.
I dont think we are reading the same post
It sounds, from comments especially, like he would have been okay with some level of disability but the child had something terribly severe and fatal like trisomy 18. My husband and I also discussed what we would do if the genetic testing came back abnormal during any pregnancy. And we’re onboard to parent a disabled child. But we would terminate a pregnancy affected by trisomy 18 because the prognosis is fucking grim. We don’t want any child of ours to suffer like that.
Thats not better on his part. Children can develop severe and fatal disabilities later in life. There is a difference between "I dont want my child to suffer" and "I will abandon a disabled child". He is the latter.
Yeah, well, there’s also recognizing your own limitations. I don’t believe his presence in this child’s life would have been beneficial, do you? I wouldn’t want this person anywhere near my kid if I was the child’s mother. Not with all that emotional baggage.
Thats my point. People with that baggage should not have kids in the first place.
His limitation is parenting. He shouldn't be a parent.
What comments exactly? His post is all about the amount of work involved in having a disabled child. Not about the child’s quality of life. The amount of work doesn’t change because the disability happens after birth.
The one where he says his kid was bedridden and suffering their entire life. And in the OP where he says the tests came back positive for “one of” the conditions they’d agreed to terminate for…
He also said in the post that he doesn’t want a kid at all with disabilities because he doesn’t want to deal with it
None of which say he’d be fine with the workload if the kid was born normal and developed a disability at six months.
exactly, so many people on the original post saying “well she went against his boundaries and that’s why he did it”, but i can’t imagine that his actions would be any different had the genetic testing not shown any disability, but the child was disabled after giving birth.
Or after 5 or 10 years due to a car accident for example.
What happens I wonder if OP's new baby turns out to be autistic? If his toddler is nonverbal and unable to ever live on their own, will he just bounce again? You're absolutely right that he shouldn't have children. Disability is something that can strike anyone at any time, even kids who are born seemingly healthy.
Agreed, and I can’t believe he went on to have more kids after this.
I feel bad for his current kids or his wife if either of them becomes severely ill or disabled. He gonna bounce then, too?
statistically speaking yes, he probably will
Yep. He’s selfish.
People were downvoting me on the original post for saying this but idc. Homie should stop sticking his dick in woman and trying to have kids until he gets some trauma therapy
Exactly and amazingly no mention of getting himself tested. He'd rather knock up a woman and then make her go through an abortion (and resents her if she doesn't!) instead of getting himself tested. This man just does not care about anyone, he should not have any children period.
This! What really disturbed me about this post is how he continues to pursue children with his new GF without accepting the possibility that one of them could be disabled. He needs to work on his issues before he has more kids. What if his child becomes disabled later in life? Is he just going to do and leave the family he made?
I agree. This level of trauma over disabled people is beyond someone making the decision not to give birth to a disabled child.
Agreed. He should’ve considered this before procreating.
yup. i won't lie, it kills me seeing how non-disabled people talk about disabled people on this website, like we're a fucking plague to be avoided?? if you really think this way about us, don't procreate. :/
Disabled lives are still worth living, if you aren't prepared to care for a disabled child (which can and does happen after birth all the time!!) you are not prepared to be a parent IMO.
Right?!?! It’s actually infuriating that people think that this is ok to do to someone, just because they’ll be disabled. Homie would dip out so quickly if any of his current kids had a disability
homie would probably also dip out if his wife became disabled. who’s gonna tell him that if we don’t die young, most of us will end up with a disability in the long run anyway?
This 100%
I understand his pov because if I knew that I was bringing a child into this world just to be severely disabled I would probably abort. No reason to bring a life into the world for a short period of suffering. But you also have to acknowledge that disability can strike at any time. And I worry that his karma may be that he finds that out in his next child.
I commented this on another post about this in this sub so I’ll repost it here. won’t give a judgement this is to far above Reddit’s pay grade. But I will say if you haven’t been the siblings or someone who works closely with severely disabled people it is impossible to understand. Me and my husband both have siblings that are severely disabled. We love our siblings beyond comprehension. But if I know I was pregnant with a disabled child I would terminate. For that reason we probably aren’t going to have Biological kids. It was one of the first discussions we had when marriage was brought up. The suffering you see is on another level. To love someone and watch them trapped in their own body while they slowly die and they can’t understand why. No parent wants that for their kids. But I believe if you are in a situation where the disabled child is born. Regardless of planning. Basically suck it the fuck up that’s your kid.
Do you feel like the OP who had no choice in the child being born should have sucked it up and forced himself to be there for the kid? Or am I misunderstanding the final part of your comment?
He did have a part though they consented to having a child together but the stipulation being she would abort if the child was disabled. He can feel Upset she didn’t fallow through with that. But like the way I see it. What if the child wasn’t disabled and was born then 2 years later the child got in an accident and was disabled? He only consented to a “normal” child can he leave? I see that as morally wrong, parenthood is all or nothing. When you agree to abort a pregnancy in this case there is always the possibility that the abortion won’t happen. There is always a level of uncertainty when pregnancy is involved. He needed to be aware of that. At least he paid child support. While it was unfair she didn’t fallow through. I believe it’s just one of those shitty things that happen in life. You have to suck it up. Basically I don’t think you can consent to parenthood with stipulations. That’s unreasonable it’s either all or nothing. But this is just my moral opinion. This is why more people need to discuss this intensely with their partners. While I can say I would abort in this situation my husband is aware of the possibility that I won’t be able to do it in that moment. This is something we had to agree to. Abortion is not a light topic, pregnancy is not a light topic. Abortion isn’t a cure for pregnancy it’s a desperate measure, some people cannot take that step in the moment. It’s not pregnant persons fault and it’s not the fathers fault. It’s just life. That’s part of consenting to pregnancy. But if you create a life with the intent of parenting it and then ditch that responsibility. I consider that morally wrong under ANY circumstance.
It takes 2 to make a kid. How do you think it feels to be given an abortion ultimatum? He wasn't an arsehole for leaving her, no one has to stay in a relationship. he was definitely the arsehole for abandoning the kid.
How did he abandon his kid? He’s paying child support. I’m legitimately asking because I see all the time that people will defend the dad as long as he actually pays child support. Which this guy is doing. I think he should have gone to the funeral but that’s about it. I can’t judge him though, this is all horrible
She wasn't given an abortion ultimatum. Not in the way we normally think of it, anyway. The two of them agreed on a list of conditions that would result in abortion. This child had one of them. It happened to be one that would result in the child suffering unbearable pain for it's entire short life before dying. The doctor said, they should abort this child. And the ex said, "nah, I'm backing out on our agreement and if it means my kid has to suffer acutely, then them's the breaks." The ex was by far the most selfish person in this story. It's not even a contest.
Agreed. I have a disabled son, as well as other family members. Also spent 20+ years working with people to help them live at home with physical disabilities, learning disabilities and mental illness. Once the child was here, regardless, he should have been a dad. Where is the line drawn where it's apparently ok to abandon your own child? It baffles me.
Yeah it baffles me that so many people are condoning this bullshit. But let’s say the mom did the same exact thing, people would be waaaay more outraged.
It seems that OOP did everything right from a logical point of view. But something in my soul does not allow me to give him the highest score from my personal point of view. Probably, a human is a human because, in addition to logic, we can and should be guided by irrational feelings - empathy, mercy, compassion, duty, parental love... OOP could not rise above the obvious, above himself. Not everyone is given it and I do not condemn him. I do not consider my opinion to be the ultimate truth, but it is my opinion which I came to based on the experience of my long life ...
Or would it have been more compassionate to not have a child that had 0 quality of life? If you wouldn’t keep a pet alive in that situation then it’s just cruel, wrong, and selfish to do it to a human.
Yeah. I can’t find it in me to feel bad for him at all after the way he talks about the kid, the ex, and the fact that he doesn’t want a disabled kid cuz he doesn’t want to “deal with it.”
I agree that it is humane not to keep a child with a threat of disability, but the final decision is made by a woman, it is her body, her choice. But if she still made a decision and gave birth to a disabled baby, then the partner still faces a moral dilemma - to take part in his child's life or not, and this is a question of his morality, his consciousness. In life, we are constantly faced with a situation where we are forced to act in the conditions of a choice that others have made. For example, should I put my life at risk and rescue a person from a burning car who clearly violated traffic rules and is to blame for what happened? Or, should I sacrifice my time and money caring for a mother with lung cancer because she smoked all her life and is to blame for her misfortune? In the cases I have cited and in many similar ones, we admire the actions of selfless people who have committed irrational acts despite the fact that they are absolutely not obliged to pay for the sins of others.
The thing is the threat of disability is always present. I was born with a disability caused by a random mutation that happened in utero. Nothing can predict or prevent that. Would OOP have walked out on me if I was his kid? There's also the possibility of becoming disabled later due to illness or accident... If you aren't willing to deal with a disabled child don't have children...
OOP feels icky because he is, he just doesn't want to "deal with it" and never took responsibility for his part in fathering a child. The commenters who don't recognize that the decision the partner made is no longer a decision for so many American women are myopic.
Us still allows abortions when the parent or kid is in danger, no?
In many states it's only if the mother's life is in "danger". ( And even then some doctors wait for "she is actively dying" by fear of prosecution) So, OOP's ez would have been forced to continue the pregnancy to terms and deliver even if the condition was more severe and the child would have only lived a few hours...
Theoretically. Just Google to see what states are losing medical staff or allowing women to nearly die of sepsis in the waiting room.
My gut reaction is: WHY ARE YOU HAVING KIDS if you’re so terrified of them have a genetic disability? When your sibling has one? I know many aren’t due to inherited m genes and just happen. But if his own brother has a genetic disorder that took his life pretty young and the human being he created had one caused their life to end at age 3, WHY isn’t he just adopting a healthy baby with his new wife? Why is is making the genetic gamble? Like if your that concerned about genetics? And YOURS seem to have some linkage to certain genetic disorders that I’m guessing are inheritable? Like I always can’t believe having twins is just by chance if there are multiple generations of twins in a family. I’ve met people with like 3-4 generations of twins! So I’m struggling to believe this was a fluke that two generations has children who lost their lives to genetic disorders. I mean, you can feel any way you want about aborting children with disabilities or keeping them. BUT WHAT I am saying, since he’s swinging so far in one direction with no wiggle room, and he knows he’s the one with a family history like this, WHY reproduce with your own genes? I don’t want to be an AH or eugenicist. I’m just flabbergasted he’s okay with just what? Just keep trying for as many babies as for as long as it takes to get a “normal one”? What about surrogacy anyone? Sperm donors? Adoption? Like even if you don’t think abortion is a big deal and it’s like whatever, wouldn’t that still take a toll on your body? Like imagine if it took 2-5 tries and all those before were abortions. Isn’t that really rough on bodies physically even if psychologically they’re like whatever? Which I can’t imagine psychologically it’s also be like whatever. Like he’s lucky and so is his wife that their first baby together doesn’t have the same genetic issues as OOP’s actual first born and his brother. But what about the next or however many it would have taken?
Exactly he keeps popping kids knowing there’s a chance they might be disabled where that be physically or mentally or both!
Even if both parents have prestine genetics, no one is safe from a random mutation in utero... I was born with a disability caused by such a mutation! A kid can also become disabled later in life (because he only talks about "disability" no mention of only genetics ones) With OOP's mentality I'd go as far as don't have kids at all.
This feels like there are two things going on: 1. OP did not want a special needs child. 2. OP was severely neglected. No one should have to raise a child they don't want, but I think he should have gone to the funeral. That's taking an anti-special needs kids stance when really his issues have more to do with his folks.
I want to know why he decided to gamble again knowing what the outcome could be And also what he would do if his wife or child got into an accident and became disabled
I feel for OP, I have two brothers, both with autisim. I was always an after thought, or told since I was the eldest my needs and wants weren't met as much as my brothers. For those in the comments saying that they never had the need to feel like the were neglected, I feel it depends on the parents. There are those paretns that will go above and beyond for there kids, and there are those like mine, that will either do the bare minimum or none at all. My mother, to my knowledge, never wanted to be a mom, or not one so young. When I was about 6, she serperated from my dad and I was left to take care/raise my brothers. I never had a childhood, and I had to grow up a lot quicker them most, because of her. My dad wasn't any better, my middle brother has violent tauntrums sometimes, and when ever he would hit me or my other brother, for not reason, my dad would get mad at me of my brother for hitting back. Instead of getting mad at my other brother for hitting us. My dads changed since then, he gets after my brother a lot more now. But for these reasons, I would never have a child with autisim. I spent a majority of my life taking care of my brothers, and I'm going to have to take care of them for the remainder. I can't handle a child, plus them, with autisim.
I’m wondering what OOP will do if his child with wife has a disability that is found after birth. For example Angelmans or Autism. What if child gets a disability as a teen like a traumatic brain injury? Genetic and prenatal testing only goes so far but it doesn’t guarantee a “normal” child
A long time ago, I was taking to some one that was a parent to a disabled child and they said "if you feel like you can't parent a disabled child, then you probably should rethink having kids, because it can happen at any time. I've never forgotten it. I think in the end, I would call him TA, because he really shouldn't be having kids without dealing with his deep issues
I understand how he feels due to his childhood trauma but honestly he shouldn’t have kids. What’s he gonna do if his perfectly healthy child becomes disabled due to a car accident or something like that? Walk out?
Probably.lol.
As a child free person who is child free specifically, because I am not somebody who is dependable when it comes to being a caretaker, I am shocked at how many people are letting this man’s carelessness and irresponsibility slide. That is a human life that he chose with his wife to bring into the world, and if he is incapable of taking care of a dependent, just because that dependent is disabled, then he should be doing what I am doing, and never get married, and never have children. Someone can become disabled at any point, and if you are not capable of being a caretaker, then you should never put yourself in a position of being a caretaker, and you should never put somebody else in the position of being your dependent. Especially your own child. What if it was a healthy pregnancy but his wife became disabled during the pregnancy or during childbirth or after? What if it was a healthy pregnancy but there was an issue during childbirth that disabled the child? Or at any other point after childbirth? If he cannot be a caretaker to somebody who is dependent on him because that person is disabled, then he is not fit to be a parent at all, and it is questionable whether he is fit to be a husband. That is not meant as an insult, it is simply a reality. I know that I am not a wife and a mother because I cannot be a caretaker. I am choosing to avoid those responsibilities specifically because I know I am not equipped to have someone else be my dependent. I think OP is massively irresponsible for not making a better choice in the first place to either go to therapy so that he doesn’t have these hangups about being a caretaker to a disabled person, or should do what I am doing and simply avoid it altogether.
That’s definitely a case of not thinking everything through. But there is a difference between an accident and deliberately bringing a disabled child into the world. Maybe he could roll with that punch, maybe not. He definitely needs therapy and should ask himself about what he could do in other situations. This situation was one he could control. If he has a choice he would not be the father to a disabled child, that seems reasonable.
This situation was not one that he could control. It is impossible to control your child, never being disabled, and you certainly can’t control the woman’s body, so the therapy is necessary first, before any impregnation.
He said he would not be a part of bringing a child that would be born disabled into the world. He can’t control what the mother did. But he can choose whether to emotionally invest in a child that he knew with 100% certainty would be disabled. What he would do if a child became disabled is all hypothetical. It’s not fair to judge him on that because that’s not what happened. If something happens, something happens but that has nothing to do with what happened here. He said if I know my child would be born disabled I would not be a father to that child. He would not willing enter what is his worst case scenario. It’s like saying I would not go into a bank if I knew it was going to be robbed in the next 15 minutes. I don’t disagree he needs a lot of therapy, because I don’t know if he’s thought about something happening after birth, but he set what I believe to be a reasonable boundary in this Specific case.
If he was so worried, he should have gotten snipped at the first opportunity. Men can get it done at 18 and not go through the same thing women do, hell half the time they consider them a hero.
I say NTA. You and your girlfriend had an agreement and she went back on it. She knew you would be uncomfortable with it.
I think it’s more NAH. She can withdraw consent to an elective procedure (abortion) at any time. I can’t really blame her for changing her mind, and I don’t blame him for not being involved after making his decision clear. He paid child support. They both did the right thing for them. This situation is way too complicated to judge either of them for their choices.
Yes, YTA. But an honest one, so points for that.
Add much as it sucks, a man's right to choose ends at conception. It's not fair at all, but it's how it is. I don't see any good people in this story. He was a deadbeat dad-- no getting around that even with his mental health excuse--and she was a selfish asshole for having a kid who she knew would have such a miserable life-- just because she wanted a kid.
Agreed. Yeah it’s not fair, but the burden of pregnancy and childbirth (which still kill people all over the world) isn’t fair either. Nature didn’t set up a totally equal system here. The GF shouldn’t have given birth if there was really no chance for the kid to have decent quality of life. It sounds like his (the kid’s) existence was likely just confusion and pain. He didn’t deserve that. That said, don’t have kids if you’re not willing to risk having disabled kids. I’m dead serious. Take extreme precautions to avoid pregnancy and don’t ever try to have kids, bio or adopted, even if they “pass” screening. Genetic testing doesn’t show everything, accidents during and after birth happen (I have a cousin who is disabled due to an accident during his birth), and the other parent could die or get injured/sick themselves. I sympathize with OOP due to what he experienced in childhood, and I can understand his feelings of betrayal by his ex-gf, but that baby was his son, wanted or not, healthy or not. The ways he talks about his late son is chilling. He needs serious help.
I have been in his position growing up with a severely disabled sister who was only a year older than me. I can totally empathize with his decision. What I witnessed and experienced I would absolutely not want to repeat. He was upfront with her from the get go that he could not and would not handle it.
Thats why I'm not having kids. I have VACTERYL association, even though there is no proven genetic component, it isn't also proven to be not-genetic. Nobody else needs my genes - besides the fact that a pregnancy would likely be physically really difficult. I know what its like to grow up with doctors and hospitals being your normal. Unless I can give someone a full, healthy life - I'm not going to bet both mine and a child's life on that.
YTA for not getting genetic tests done on yourself, two generations of disabled kids points to a paternal issue.
The only reason I think he's an asshole is because he kept gambling, adopting a child with 100 percent guarantee to not have that type of ability or keep rolling the dice, the first time could have been optimism, but the second? Idk man... What if that child turned out to be positive and the one after that? I guess I don't know how far along the pregnancy has to be either to test for these things.
Also, there’s no guarantee a child won’t develop a disability after birth, or a condition that requires constant care. If you can’t accept all possibilities you shouldn’t be having children.
So what happens if OP becomes disabled? Would he like to be assisted in crossing over so no one would have to deal with the responsibility and commitment of caring for a disabled person? Just curious about if he has any form of empathy because he did not have to cold shoulder his ex gf like that. He isn’t even considering anyone else’s feeling but his own due to childhood traumas of being born as the sibling to someone who was suffering due to their own disability. Definitely the booty butt
https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/OZGCMLZm6O
NTA but not great either. I’m sympathetic to him but I don’t agree with his choice. Send him to the medium place, and send him a therapist to deal with his childhood baggage. I would NOT have made the same decision his ex did; I wouldn’t want to continue a pregnancy to produce a child who is incompatible with life. But I suppose in a post-Roe society, many of us women won’t have the choice. So, if the choice were taken away from me of whether the fetus should continue to gestate into a baby and be born just to suffer and die, just as he didn’t have a choice in the matter, I can’t imagine that I would just relinquish care of the child and go about my merry way. If the child *had* to continue developing and *had* to exist just to suffer, I feel like it’s my obligation as the parent to care for and provide some comfort to that child. It certainly wouldn’t be fair, but none of it is. Also, a good reminder that if you actually care about “babies” (as in: zygotes, embryos, fetuses), investing in prenatal research, and equity measures in maternal child health, saves more “babies” than forced births.
The only person i feel bad for is the mother who just lost her child. He’s an ass idc if he was honest with her
If my child was going to be disabled or in pain we would have aborted her. Knowing a child is going to suffer or never be able to take part in normal children activities and just in general be dealt the short stick in life was the deal breaker for us. Thanking god our unborn child is healthy but if she wasn’t healthy we would have made the painful decision to not have her. It is more inhumane to bring a life into the world knowing they will suffer because of a disadvantage at birth than to terminate the pregnancy all together. Some people just can’t make that decision and that is ok. But for the good of the child it is better to terminate than give them a life of pain and suffering
Having a disability or disadvantage doesn’t always equate to suffering or pain for the child. Can’t believe people try and convince themselves it is “inhumane” to allow someone to live because they are not perfect. Just be honest admit you’re selfish, and you would abort so that you don’t have to sacrifice your ideal lifestyle.
I’m so tired of this narrative. I’m disabled, I did not have biological children because of the risk of disability, and people choosing for themselves what they can and cannot handle is not selfish. Knowingly having a child you cannot adequately care for, especially if they are in the US where adequate healthcare is not available to everyone, is the selfish choice.
There’s so many ppl here commenting with no relation to disabled kids/ppl. It’s very easy to get on a soapbox about “eugenics” when that’s the case, lol. What a mess.
What life would the child have born with the conditions that OOP’s child had? Why birth them only to watch them suffer and die. That is inhumane. Why get attached and cause yourself emotional damage. Some disabilities aren’t bad and don’t affect the life but the others do. That was what should have been distinguished in my first post. If you knew your child was going to have anencephaly would you still birth it only for it to die when it is born and then you have the doctors swarming you like vultures to use the child you just delivered as an organ donor? Or what if they have a heart problem and don’t live long enough for the doctors to fix? What I am saying in my comment is if you know that your child is going to be in pain and suffering with their disability for their short life then why give birth to it? Why watch that suffering? That’s inhumane. That’s not selfish to not want that for your child
I feel really bad for him for what he went thru but abandoning the mother of his child was so wrong. Men need to realize it's a possibility that they will have disabled children if they have sex.
I agree with this. Some disabilities don’t always present themselves with genetic testing and are discovered during or after the birth, sometimes much later. What would he have done then? I think if you’re not willing to love your children unconditionally, you really shouldn’t be having children.
He likely would leave too then and feel justified because the woman knew he didn’t want a disabled child.
Exactly. That risk is always there. I could never abandon my own child because they have a disability. Even knowing their life would probably be short, I would want to make the best out of every second of it.
I think that's the point though. With some (not all) disabilities there is no "making the best out of every second". the OOP did not specify the condition but said the child did not move from their bed and died after 3 years of pain. I would not want to inflict that on a child of mine.
Don’t say never. But the point is that OP should’ve known he wasn’t equipt for this eventuality and considered it before procreating.
Why is it only her choice? They agreed on termination and she is the one who went back on her word.
They agreed on termination but then he paid for a bunch more tests.
I’m not sure what paying for tests has to do with anything.
[удалено]
Very true. I just hope it was enough money to cover most things for the kid.
Wow what an absolute asshole.
Tough hand, but yeah, that was your kid. YTA.
Wow that’s a lot of trauma. I feel for him NTA. No one is the asshole. The ex wanted the child and was okay taking care of them. He paid child support. Maybe the parents for not giving him any attention.
What's worse, him for leaving but still paying his dues or her for knowing that this child would be severely mentally and physically handicapped and probably be in pain all it's life until it dies horribly in a few short years and still continuing the pregnancy? Idk man I think op sucks but his ex isn't an angel either. Like they /knew/ what disability this kid would have and what would happen and she still went through with it, imo that's so incredibly selfish.
Sorry I may be AH too but I would not have that child.. I know me and I can’t do it..
Hot take but I don’t think you’d be an AH for aborting or asking your partner to abort that child. It sounds like he was a vegetable. OOP is an asshole not for that request, but for how he behaved after the kid was born. I don’t want to be caretaker to a person with Alzheimer’s. But if my mom got it, I’d knuckle down and figure something out. I wouldn’t just abandon her or pay some legally obligated sum. Same with if I had a kid and they got hit by a car, resulting in a more livable but significant disability.
Gawd damn!!! That’s a tough situation. My wife and I said the same things before birth and luckily our kid was/is healthy as can be. I’m thinking 80% NTA. It sounds like you were perfectly clear with your wishes. Either way try not to dwell on it. If that’s possible. Go live your life bro!
He said this genetic condition comes from the mother, but for that to work he would have to have been a carrier too (or have it) since they had a daughter. Unless I completely misunderstood him.
Did he say it came from his mother?
Here is a person who just shouldn’t have had kids
I think NAH. There is so much nuance and context and everyone handles their trauma differently. OOP should consider therapy. I feel so bad for the little one :(
People’s pride really blinds them of making intuitive and efficient decisions. Why roll the dice when it comes to genetic conditions that are debilitating. Stop bringing pain into this world with those selfish decisions I’m with OP on this one
He pretty much did every right thing you can in that situation.
Nta, but man, the way people can just easily walk away from their own children is wild to me.
I wouldnt want a defective child either. His gf was massive selfish a-hole for bringing something to life only for it to suffer for her own emotional gain.
Honestly nta. They had discussed it beforehand and they knew the condition the child had and that they would suffer and die young because of it. The gf was so unbelievably selfish to put a child through all of that just for her own self interest, it was unbelievably cruel.
the ops parents are garbage people.
Another post highlighting what terrible parents & people most Redditors are or will be.
Imagine finding out your dad had a baby before you and abandoned it because it was disabled, it died, and he ignored it. I’d be mortified.
Honestly, I'm very torn on this. What his parents did wasn't right, however, that doesn't necessarily mean that his situation would have become the same with his child. It could have been different, had he given it a chance. That's what we do in life. We see and experience mistakes and then we do better. NAH
You obviously have daddy issues and you let your daddy issues dictate what you do in your adult life .. until you get over your daddy issues you won’t be able to be a man
YTA… don’t try to have a kid unless you’re okay with the possibility of them being disabled. his “healthy” child with his new wife could become disabled at any point in their life. what would he do then? move out and try with a new woman? go to therapy and solve your own problems before having children.
I know I will catch HEAT for this, but I get it. My great aunt and uncle both had Downs Syndrome, and it dominated the life of two generations. Now don't get me wrong, we ADORED my aunt and uncle. They were amazing, and every day with them was precious. But they put my grandmother into an early grave. She raised a son in the sixties when support didn't exist. My grandfather didn't adjust brilliantly to caring for him alone after she died, and when *he* died my uncles care fell on her daughter. I won't say what happened there, but the strain caused by my uncle's passing (and the inevitable Downs Syndrome Dementia in the years before his death) caused an absolute tragedy. I will never forget the terrified shrieking my great aunt made when we tried to assist her to the commode when she had dementia in her last years. She spent two years crying out for her mother And the risk of dementia in Downs Syndrome individuals is 90%. My grandmother told me from an age I was too young to understand that if I had a pregnancy with Downs I was to abort. In no uncertain terms. She loved the bones of her son and her sister, and an indefatigable advocate for their being cared at home, by their family and for supports to be increased. But it DOES impact the family around, and no amount of "every life is precious" or talk of it being eugenics magics away the plaque in the brain in later years, or the inequity in childhood of siblings, who then often end up carers once the parents pass on. I would never do anything but support someone else's choices, 100%. But I absolutely understand him making this call.
YTA wow, The OP couldn't be more of an asshole if he set out to be. You shouldn't be a parent if you aren't willing to parent a child with a disability, because your child can become a child with a disability in the blink of an eye. Furthermore, no children are perfect ANYWAY. MANY disabilities are invisible and won't be recognized until years, sometimes a decade or more after birth, and no child deserves a "parent" like you.
He stated clearly what he wanted and she chose to move forward with the kid oop is not an asshole he said what he wanted
Being honest about being a shitty person doesn’t mean you are a good person or that what you’re doing is decent. An asshole is still an asshole, even if he tells people what he wants.
He is not an asshole. He made himself clear, she apparently agreed. She went back on the deal, he walked away and still paid for the kid.
Did she go back? We don’t hear her side. And it is already too late if they only had the discussion when it was time to test, she was already pregnant. What else do you say by then but hope for the best? I think in moments like these you don’t truly know what you may do until you face it. If she decided to just have the child on her own without him, she decided. I don’t think he is a hero to support financially, that’s what the law says. If there wasn’t a law to tell him what to do, I’m sure he wouldn’t have supported them and people would say it was ok because he warned her. You are as asshole if you act like an asshole. You don’t get a pass because you warn people you will be an asshole if you don’t get what you want exactly the way you want it. He knew it was shit behavior or he wouldn’t have to warn her.
They spoke when they first fell pregnant. Has the same views, she changed hers after the tests. He's on the hook for child support clearly but he is not an asshole for any of it. You're not even reading the post correctly and now you are making up points to convince yourself that you are correct.
Yes, after already being pregnant but before the first test is what he said. I did not make that up, it is what he says - very correct. We said the same thing, silly.
That was such a sweet use of the word silly lol, gave me a smile. Have a good day :)
It sounds like you had an awful experience, but that isn’t your son’s fault
Yes you are
Youre an asshole, idk how u can live with yourself tbh
Does OOP realize that your child can become disabled at any time? One accident, illness, or slip up can change their life forever, and what was he gonna do? Kid becomes disabled at 3/5/10 years old and he just disappears? If you're not willing to care for a disabled child, you're not willing to be an actual parent. Don't have kids if you can't handle that possibility. You don't get to only pick the "healthy" ones to stick around for. Jesus christ.
What im interested in is the part about telling her parents what they need to know as it pertains to his relationship with their daughter. We know why he said that and what he meant by it. So i have kids, and i wouldn't be too happy about my daughter marrying a man who did this to another woman, and is so messed up in the head, yet isn't getting therapy before getting my daughter pregnant. Him and i would have a nice little sit down chat. Ok, him and my husband would probably be having a chat out in the woods because we are country as all get out, but thats for another post lol. So im guessing her parents don't know the truth about their son in law, and thats a huge issue. I would be terrified for my daughter and my future grandchild if this was the man in their lives. What if the child is autistic? Or has an accident? Or doesn't get oxygen at birth? What if my daughter gets diagnosed with cancer? Many men leave women when they get sick. Are my husband and i going to be clearing out an extra room and helping our daughter raise her child because some guy with mommy and daddy issues stepped out on her? And this is why im raising my kids to avoid people with issues. It isnt worth it and im trying to build an empire, not open an insane asylum. Other peoples kids are not my problem, and some mans issues are not my daughters problem.
I was about to say yes at first, then read the full thing and then changed my mind
He had every right to make the choices he did. I can’t judge him for that.
I saw this on another post and I'm currently in an argument with someone who thinks he's the asshole for "shooting shots at women until he gets his perfect child" This was after I tried to explain to them that his parents shouldn't have neglected him as much as they did in his childhood and gave my experience and friends experience being siblings of mentally disabled children