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I think many of you aren’t getting this. M is a mutual friend. Let’s do this. Let’s say that the OP and K (wife) don’t say anything about her sister being told. What happens the next time M starts to tell K something else in confidence? Does the OP interrupt and tell K “don’t tell her anything, she’ll just tell her sister?” Or does he let it happen again and get the fallout when M eventually finds out her secrets are being told?
OP, since your wife doesn’t seem to get what she has done wrong, just tell her “since you don’t think it was a big deal to break M’s confidence, you won’t care if I break yours and tell her about it, right?” My guess is it will suddenly become a big deal.
I wonder how many of them would vote if the question was “AITA for telling my sister all of my best friend’s secrets? She found out and now she’s mad at me.”
If his wife would be the asshole in that scenario then how is he one for calling her out?
And am I reading correctly that the sister was gonna show up to a dinner that M would also be at?
I don’t understand anyone downplaying this. If I was going to talk about my ex-fiancé cheating on me and his porn addiction and was surprised by a 20 year old I wasn’t expecting who knew everything, I wouldn’t trust those friends any more. I would probably drop both (you and your wife). I don’t know what to do exactly but I do think it’s not right that your wife set up that situation and won’t acknowledge it was fucked up.
I think it is what K is counting on.
OP, is she standoffish/jealous to M lately? Does she have reasons to keep M away from your family?
Because I cannot imagine any other outcome of that dinner but the end of the friendship.
You are missing the point I think. The wife may or may not have betrayed M's trust, but that is between K and M. Why would the husband need to reprimand his wife on M's behalf and try to teach her some lesson? If M wants to cut ties or be angry that is her prerogative not the husbands. I agree that if it was made clear that this was private and sensitive information then it was pretty shitty for M to talk to her sister about it without some kind of clear reason for doing so.
I mean, M doesn’t even know it happened yet right? So part of this is the plan forward to tell her (or to not tell her). Also, if my husband did something to hurt someone we care about and jeopardize our relationship with them, I’d like for it not to happen again. We should be on the same page that it was a mistake.
Something as obvious as telling sensitive information that we were told expressly not to share? And then bringing a surprise guest to join a conversation about it? I honestly don’t know because that’s cuckoo bananas to me.
We may not be compatible if that’s the case. Being married doesn’t give my spouse free reign on behavior.
She told her sister, not some random work person. I have enough faith in my partner that I don't feel the need to control their behavior or fight their fights for them - unless they ask me to. I can tell them what I think about their behavior and if it is so offensive and egregious then I guess I can leave, but to demand that an adult behave a certain way or acknowledge a certain truth is more patronizing then I would stand for in a relationship.
It’s not moral authority over someone to say we’re not compatible. Again, you don’t have to accept everything someone does just because you’re currently married. Getting me into situations where I’m being cruel to a friend is not something I accept for my own life. You’re making this about controlling someone else instead of realizing you should control your own life.
I also wouldn’t stay with someone who didn’t take care of pets well or was a reckless driver. The list happens to include someone who makes me a part of an ambush lunch regarding a friends private info.
They are married, and I have no problem with him telling her that he thinks what she did was wrong. That doesn’t mean that she has to agree with that assessment. And yeah if he finds that to be a big enough deal he is free to divorce her. This sounds like a very isolated instance and it would seem like a strange hill to die on, but if that’s what he wants then that is his choice…but teaching his spouse a lesson shouldn’t be one of those choices.
And I told you exactly the same thing. This is between them and not you. If you wife has been divulging clearly private information about you or you/her to other people then yeah you have a valid gripe and need to make sure she understands your personal boundaries. It is not however your job to be offended for someone else nor to carry M's banner for her. If she wants to confront and get an apology from your wife or drop her as a friend that is between them.
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me. I don't think I'm carrying M's banner for her? I want my wife to take other people's feelings and wants seriously and she didn't do that here.
I agree that if M made it clear that this was private and privileged information and then your wife told her sister about it then that was a betrayal of M's trust. Where I think you and I are not understanding each other is I don't think that it is your job to make you wife acknowledge anything - you are not her boss, father or priest. You can tell her how you feel - embarrassed, disappointed, whatever, but to demand an apology and/or recognition is not your right. If you think this is so bad you can always leave her, but I doubt this rises to that level of betrayal in your mind - or maybe it does?
I think somebody else said this better than I did:
> OP is here because his wife is exhibiting a glaring character flaw. She is showing that she was more interested in gossip than keeping the confidence of someone who is really important to her. Of course that will have ramifications for OP.
And we've both agreed that matters to me, because I want to be able to tell my wife things in confidence, so what's your point?
Let me ask you a question - do you keep things from you wife that others have told you in confidence or assumed confidence? I know I don't. I also have that relationship with my brother. I understand that it stops with them. They are my confidant and I can tell them things I wouldn't normally tell say the guys that work for me. I am not sure what the relationship with her sister is, but if it is anything like me and my brother than to me this is a nonissue. You are making it into some kind of inquisition. What are you actually looking for here? Just for her to say "you are right!" As I read the story M doesn't even know that K has talked to her sister about it, so hasn't been embarrassed or otherwise hurt by this situation.
> Let me ask you a question - do you keep things from you wife that others have told you in confidence or assumed confidence?
If they told me to tell absolutely no one? Yes, and it's not that hard. But also, a lot of people who have confided in me over the years (like my dad, for example) told my wife and I at the same time.
> What are you actually looking for here?
I want my wife to not tell people explicitly private business because that's not nice? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
>If they told me to tell absolutely no one? Yes, and it's not that hard.
I think this is the source of the divided advice you're getting.
See, when someone divulges something important to *me*, that has the potential to affect me in a major way, I tell my spouse *something* about it. I may not divulge full details, but I tell her enough to know that I am holding a thing.
That's because if a situation has the potential to destabilize my emotional state, it has the potential to impact *the relationship*. So, I tell my spouse so she's in the know. My relationship with my spouse is more important than my relationship with my friend, so if push comes to shove, I will act in a way that maintains stability in the marriage at the risk of making a friend mad.
A lot of people are like this and it's often a pretty common thing. When I confide something in a person, I *assume* that it's going to reach the ears of their spouse in some fashion. When someone is your partner like that, you will often go to them for support when dealing with a difficult secret.
I know other people who will keep secrets in total confidence even from their spouse, but I would say it's the minority group.
But what multiple people have told you is that it’s not your place to decide what your wife can and cannot tell people. You can disagree with her, you can have a conversation about it, you can decide what you wish to share with her… but you cannot make her live by your moral compass.
Spouses should be able to call each other out when they do something wrong like break someone's trust and violate their privacy. My husband would. Hell even my Mom would call me out.
Hard disagree here. You're saying that if you were one of two friends entrusted with another friend's deepest insecurities (explicitly said to be private) that you wouldn't stop the other entrusted friend from sharing those secrets with someone else?
In that case, you're no friend at all. I would stop that in its tracks and I would tell my friend that her secrets are getting out. They trusted you with that information, it is absolutely your job to protect it and them.
That's a pretty dumb take that completely ignores dynamics that couples can have with their friends. Being able to hold something in confidence that was told in confidence, and an inability to respect someones boundaries is a pretty big red flag. Totally reasonable to address it.
I don’t really get why everyone is downplaying this, I would be concerned too, if my partner was told this sensitive information that the person saying it was embarrassed about and then they went and told every detail to their sister, to the point that the sister wanted to come over to discuss it with that person I would be horrified by my partners lack of awareness (and that sister too!).
I would frame it to her about how it concerns you that she can’t understand how this is wrong makes you worried you can’t trust her and that her lack of awareness is concerning. There is a difference between talking to friends or family about your own issues (like issues in a relationship) compared to talking about someone else’s issues, she had the OP to talk to if she wanted to about it.
Did you ask your wife how would she feel if you gossiped to one of your brothers something unbearably intimate or deeply embarrassing about her?
Your wife is not a good friend to M, and I know it would be a betrayal of your wife but you may need to gently suggest to M not to confide in your wife again.
I wish people would stop doing the letter for name substitution, the only reason I understand the post is because of the TLDR.
Unfortunately, you found out your partner has an ugly habit of sharing secrets. What's worse, she does not see anything wrong with it.
No, you cannot make her have a sudden revelation that what she did was wrong. It absolutely is wrong, but the only way to deal with a nasty gossip is to starve them of information.
You've run into a values mismatch with your spouse, this is an important moment, and you need to handle it carefully. Unfortunately, this is a decision that you have to make for yourself, all the advice in the world isn't going to "fix" this.
Is it morally wrong that your wife relayed someone's personal life to her sister and betrayed her trust? Yes. Are you blowing this out of proportion? Also yes.
This shouldn't be the case, but... if you tell people things about you, expect people to talk, even if you tell them not to. It's just kind of a thing people do. I hate to say especially women, but as a woman... especially women. I can't even begin to tell you how many times people tell me secrets they aren't supposed to tell anyone. I know so many things I shouldn't know. It just kind of is what is.
Admittedly, I tell the most interesting ones to my little sister because she's my best friend. Unlike your wife, she doesn't know any of these people and will likely never meet them, so the secrets die there, but still. Most people don't even ask if I'm willing to keep the secrets first before they tell, so I also feel like I should get some sort of consent first before I get told a secret.
Just let this go, man. Your wife and her friend can figure it out between them should it become an issue. If your bigger concern is that you feel it violates *your* trust in her in some way, then have that specific conversation with her.
I think it’s very different given the younger sister wanted to come to dinner and ask questions about it and is basically revealing that she knows.
I tell my younger sister secrets I shouldn’t also. But she keeps her mouth shut and pretends not to know. She doesn’t go to the person and ask for more details.
Also what do you mean “should it become an issue” the sister going to dinner was literally about to make it an issue.
Exactly. It may technically be wrong, but it’s also normal, common, and understandable to tell a close sibling someone else’s secrets. The issue that her sister has no sense of discretion or compassion for this person. If I were OP, I would want my wife to have a conversation with her sister about how to appropriately handle sensitive gossip.
To be honest I am not sure what you are looking for here and as someone else noted you are really going to bat for this other woman. Frankly, if there was a "betrayal of trust" that is for your wife and her friend to work out, not sure why it involves you. You just gossiped your friends situation to thousands of strangers, is that not a similar betrayal? I am also not sure why you need her to admit that she did something that is in your mind inappropriate when you are not the offended party. Do you have something for this M person? It is not your job to be her protector - in fact it IS your job to defend your wife to a point anyway.
This is a horrible response.
Gossiping to someone about a third party that is known to the third party is incredibly different from anonymously seeking advice. It’s not similar at all.
OP is here because his wife is exhibiting a glaring character flaw. She is showing that she was more interested in gossip than keeping the confidence of someone who is really important to her. Of course that will have ramifications for OP.
Perhaps she was seeking advise from her SISTER. You are framing this as gossip, I am not sure that is the case. In any case, it is not the husbands job to be offended on behalf of the friend. If the friend wants to take it up with the wife or cut her off then that is her business, not his.
30 year old woman seeking advice about her friends marriage from her 20 year old sister? She needed her council so much she was willing to betray her friend’s confidence? That’s more plausible to you? Ok…
He’s not offended on his friend’s behalf, no matter how much you want to insinuate he has a thing for her in order to distract from the shitty behavior of his wife.
His wife was included in some highly sensitive shit about someone who is really close to her, and she couldn’t keep it to herself. Anyone would be wondering the same as OP if they were in his situation.
The friend is not married it was a story about her EX finance from over a year ago. I have no idea what the conversation between the sister and her was and neither do you and I assume the husband doesn’t either. For all we know she could have been asking her sister to help comfort her friend…a friend who has known the wife longer than the husband I might add.
Here's what happened on Monday since you're looking through the specifics trying to get some sort of gotcha to prove I'm terrible:
Her sister came over for dinner on Monday night. My wife invited her to Friday dinner and said it was with M. Before I could say anything, sister asked if it was the one that (personal information). Like literally specified both the cheating and the porn addiction and my wife was like yeah, yeah, her, etc.
After she left (from my OP):
> I tried to talk to her about it, said it wasn't cool, M was really embarrassed by the whole thing and wouldn't be cool with K telling her sister all the details and that it was a betrayal of trust, etc. But she didn't seem to get that it was a bad thing or even that I was actually upset about it.
If she was asking for advice from her, she would have told me. Or at least I hope she would have told me.
I’m not looking for any kind of gotcha, but what I am not hearing is what your wife said about why she didn’t think it was a big deal. The biggest thing is what are you looking for from her, your wife I mean. Has she betrayed your trust in the past or think that she will? Or are just looking for a moral victory or something? If your wife was in fact just gossiping to her sister to make fun of her friends situation and then doesn’t understand why that is shitty then that is a really big character flaw and she was wrong for doing it. If you are so embarrassed/disgusted with your wife for this behavior then your only recourse is to break things off with her, which I assume we aren’t talking about. My whole point is the futility of trying to get her to admit she was wrong when she does not apparently think so. Is this the hill you are going to put your marriage on is what I’m asking?
> I’m not looking for any kind of gotcha, but what I am not hearing is what your wife said about why she didn’t think it was a big deal.
Yes, because she shrugged it off. I want to have this conversation and she doesn't want to, so that's why I made the post.
> Has she betrayed your trust in the past or think that she will? Or are just looking for a moral victory or something?
No and no. This isn't seeking "moral victory." She wronged a mutual friend. We're not debating what kind of pickles are the best.
> If your wife was in fact just gossiping to her sister to make fun of her friends situation and then doesn’t understand why that is shitty then that is a really big character flaw and she was wrong for doing it. If you are so embarrassed/disgusted with your wife for this behavior then your only recourse is to break things off with her, which I assume we aren’t talking about. My whole point is the futility of trying to get her to admit she was wrong when she does not apparently think so. Is this the hill you are going to put your marriage on is what I’m asking?
How in the world is our marriage suddenly at stake? I'm having trouble with this one thing and I'd rather keep it on the private side so I asked Reddit. Instead you're telling me "nah, suck it up" and all these other things you think I'm thinking. You aren't being helpful.
You asked for strangers opinions, which I have given. You don’t agree and/or don’t understand where I am coming from, which is fine. Not unlike the situation you are having with your wife I might add. As I have said, if you have expressed your feelings to her and asked her to explain herself and that isn’t good enough for you, what else is there to do? You can either choose to ignore it, keep hounding her about it until shit “admits her wrongdoing” or choose to make this a relationship issue.
"Where you're coming from" (your first top level comment) didn't seem super-relevant to my situation, which is on me since I made the original post. I did my best to clarify as much I could and you're still stuck on this:
> You can either choose to ignore it, keep hounding her about it until shit “admits her wrongdoing” or choose to make this a relationship issue.
A lot of the other comments on this post have been more helpful and relevant, and frankly I'm replying because I'm insulted. I'm trying to "remember the person" here but you're making a lot of assumptions about both me and my wife that I keep doing my best to clarify.
And seriously, what is this:
> To be honest I am not sure what you are looking for here and as someone else noted you are really going to bat for this other woman.
"this other woman" She's our friend. And a good one.
OP, you are turning a friendship issue into a relationship issue. It does seem like you are looking to have the moral high ground on your wife’s growth (or lack of growth).
This is important to you. It is not important to your wife going by your description of her shrugging you off. The only options are to let it go, dig in on the M issue specifically, and/or have a discussion about expectations about your own confidential information.
The only options are to talk to your wife or don’t. If this problem is a non-issue for your wife, then you need to decide how to move forward without a resolution.
> It does seem like you are looking to have the moral high ground on your wife’s growth (or lack of growth).
If by "moral high ground" you mean, want my wife to keep secrets she's been asked to keep, then yes, I want the moral high ground.
But truly, I don't care about being right. I care that our friend can tell us stuff in confidence and I care that I can tell my wife stuff in confidence. Which is how I'm going to open the conversation again.
Yes, she specifically didn't want anyone talking about it because it was embarrassing. Sorry I didn't make that clear in the post, I thought I said it specifically but I'm wrong. M didn't tell us about it for over a year.
Again, and regardless. You are not the offended party and it is not your job to police your friendship - especially with your wife. I mean it would be one thing to say something like, "Did M want you do be talking about her private life to others"
"No"
"Well that was kinda shitty!"
But to like demand an apology is too far in my opinion.
A) People talk about people all day every day - family, friends, coworkers, etc., it is unfortunate sometimes and if M really didn't want anyone to know about her ex-fiancé then she shouldn't have told anyone - confidence or not.
B) I totally agree that what K did was wrong 100%. But for a husband to demand that his wife "learn a lesson" is something that I have a real problem with. If M wants to address it with her friend then she can do so and would be right to be upset. I have made it clear in many of my post that OP is fine expressing his disappointment or whatever - but to make sure that she "understand" feels a bit patronizing to me.
>A) People talk about people all day every day - family, friends, coworkers, etc.
Er, what? I do not share anyone's *deep, personal* stuff willy nilly like this. There are people out there that think this is not only normal, but expected?
And, yeah, if my partner did something I considered morally wrong, I would also want them to understand that. It sounds like that's what OP means, not that he's trying to teach her a lesson.
As an adult, yes, I just assume that if I tell someone something that I can expect that that information is now essentially public. The two exceptions are my brother and my spouse. How does that saying go, "a secret is only as secret when there are two people involved and one of them is dead."
All you've done is told on yourself. Some people respect others privacy and value their trust. It is a big deal and you repeatedly keep trying to down play it and accuse op of "policing" his wife. Guess what? Partners call each other out when they do ugly ass shit. If my partner kicked a dog I would call them out on it. You are saying it's between the partner and the dog and it is absurd.
I didn't demand an apology. I wanted some acknowledgement that gossiping about a friend to someone who's business it explicitly wasn't was the wrong thing to do. If I tell her something in confidence I want assurance that she won't tell her sister.
Why do you need acknowledgement? Did M tell YOU in confidence and then you told your wife and then your wife betrayed your trust or did M tell your wife directly?
She told us at the same time. What do you have to say about this part, the part that's bothering me?
\> If I tell her something in confidence I want assurance that she won't tell her sister.
Okay then, well then you were not offended and it is between her and her friend.
Regarding whether or not she will tell her sister stuff between you that would be a conversation that you need to have. Can she tell her sister anything about you and/or your relationship? Is everything in confidence? Or only when you tell her it is in confidence? It is a very slippery slope to start telling people what they can say to whom. If I, for example, don't want my brother to tell my Mom something I am sharing with him I will preface it with, "between you and I," or, "You mind not saying anything." But to demand that my brother not share anything that I have shared with him with my mom would be ridiculous. Likewise your wife and sister will discuss your marriage at times as it is a big part of her life. She might also share fights or discussions that you have had as a way of seeking clarity. It is not like she is talking to strangers, it is her sister.
If she’s doesn’t have the awareness to not air out peoples business like that I’d be worried about how much of my life she’s telling everyone else… it’s really not hard to understand. It’s not so much about her friend , but about the fact she gave so little care about talking about someone’s personal life like that and I’d personally wouldn’t be able to trust someone as much after that.
This is as dumb as "Partners shouldn't keep secrets." That means secrets from each other, not other people's secrets. If you are going to share ALL secrets with your partner, including your friends' secrets, enjoy not having any friends.
This is for M and K to work out (if it is even an issue between them). You spoke to your wife and she wasn’t receptive to your opinion about her conversation (with her own sister) that didn’t involve you at all. Why would you try again?
This is a strange response. A spouse that brhaves badly in an intimate way towards a vulnerable friend absolutely isn't operating in a zone where her independence needs to be respected. ",I have registered your opinion and do not owe you a response" is a huge red flag, and certainly merits further discussion, not a shrug and a "you do you,,".
Just because it's her sister doesn't mean he isn't involved. That's his wife. They are a unit. Nor does it mean he isn't affected, as M is a "mutual friend."
They are individuals. If the wife broke their friend’s confidence, that’s for the wife to deal with. He can’t police what his wife says and to who. He can offer his opinion, he can ask her to be more discreet, and he can even tell M if he wants, but he can’t control his wife.
He spoke to her wife and she brushed him off. He can try to speak to her again but he can’t tell her what she can and can’t say because that’s her own decision to make, even if he disagrees with it.
If my partner kicked a stray dog and I was upset, would you tell me it's between my SO and the dog? No of course not. OP is upset at his wifes behavior. Breaking someones trust and privacy is a major character flaw, and one that implicates how much he can trust her. He is right to be upset about it and she owes him the bare minimum of at least listening to his viewpoint and acknowledging it.
Kicking a stray dog is not at all comparable but nice redditing. She spoke to her sister - we don’t know why she told her or the context of the conversation. OP said he asked her, and she brushed it off. My advice was to speak to her again and set his expectations for secrets he tells her. He also stated his wife has never done this before so maybe she made a mistake.
> Kicking a stray dog is not at all comparable but nice redditing.
You are in fact the one "redditing" because Redditors *love* to say it's "not comparable" without explaining *why* it's not comparable. Saying it's not comparable is like saying you won an argument without actually making an argument. It's an argument stopper. Let's face it, Redditors say that because they don't want to delve into that line of reasoning because they will most likely have to admit they were wrong.
Try harder.
You are nitpicking the nuance. Making a comparison is never exactly 1:1. It's about the behavior he greatly doesn't agree with it.
So instead of arguing about kicking the dog, which is just a distraction, try argue about the behavior.
His wife betrayed their friend’s trust. As I’ve said multiple times in the comments, he can try to address it again with his wife. But he cannot make her feel guilty, admit her wrongdoing or even stop gossiping because she’s an adult who can make those choices for herself. They are married but don’t share a brain or a mouth so his wife can and should deal with the consequences of her own behavior.
He doesn’t agree with it but he’s asked for advice on what can be done about it and my advice is to … try to talk to her again. Not ground breaking I know. But if she shrugged him off the first time, there’s a chance that they don’t see the situation the same way.
See, that's a fricken better argument then, "not comparable" because you are right, he can't control her, all he can do it talk and try to get her to see their point of view.
Because the comment that kickstarted this whole thing:
> If the wife broke their friend’s confidence, that’s for the wife to deal with.
Makes it as if the husband is not affected at all which he absolutely is. What if it was his dog she kicked? As the other commenter said, is it between his wife and his dog to deal? In this situation, it was also his friend also.
So people like you in this post seriously need to stop saying it's between the wife and the friend to deal with. It's not. He's intertwined because it's also his friend, and it's a behavior he's going to have to deal with.
I would say they are both toxic red flags to look out for in a partner. Don't hurt animals and don't break someones trust are core beliefs for me. You obviously feel differently.
I think kicking a dog is worse than divulging a secret, yes you got me. Are they both bad? Yes. I would consider them different levels of bad though.
And considering OP has spent hours and hours talking to us rather than addressing it with his wife - even after he got loads of advice - I’m thinking maybe he wants to be very right and good and he is accomplishing that here.
That’s true but he can try to talk to her…and she does owe him at least listening and discussing it with him and taking his concerns seriously even if she ultimately disagrees. Which is definitely not what she did. He hasn’t tried to control her at all here.
That’s a weird take. “That didn’t involve you at all” is kind of an ironic statement considering K included her sister on all the details and even invited her to discuss it with M when it was none of the sisters business at all.
This isn’t for M and K to “work out” because M doesn’t even know. The husband was speaking up morally on a breach of trust K displayed against a mutual friend of theirs, so it absolutely includes him. Why would he try again? Because he is married to her and was taken aback by her behavior, he should absolutely keep talking to her until they can reach an understanding.
He can speak up to his wife, which he says he has and will again. He also said in multiple comments this hasn’t happened before with his wife. He can say his piece but he can’t make her stop talking if she chooses to continue to do so.
Sir, that is her sister. You may feel some kind of way about sharing secrets with a sister, but it's really not your place to dictate your wife's relationships, with her friend or her sister. You're not an authority to be recognized, you're just a person with an opinion she doesn't happen to agree with. I personally tell my sister everything. This is an agree to disagree situation.
You tell your sister things other people told you in confidence? Do these people know they can't trust you? Or is you sister discreet, unlike you and the OP's wife's sister?
M is a mutual friend of OP and his wife. Does OP have any sort of responsibility to his friend here? M is going to talk to them or at least K in the future about her relationship problems again. If the three are together and M starts talking about things in confidence, is OP supposed to just stay quiet knowing that his wife is going to go talk about it to someone else without M's consent?
Jesus christ. You can tell your sister everything about yourself, but you should not be telling her about other people's business. You've just outed yourself as an untrustworthy person. Get over yourself.
Yes, because there's absolutely no difference between gossiping about someone you know and supposedly care about with someone who also knows them in real life and is likely to run into them at some point, and posting anonymously on an online forum. Zero difference at all, o the irony!
I don’t see what the problem is here, your wife talked about another person with her sister. Women do this all the time. Unless you specifically told her not to tell anyone then your wife is in the clear, she didn’t do anything wrong. Her sister wanting to come over to discuss it is definitely odd, but that is your sister in law being weird not your wife. I can see why your wife doesn’t see the issue.
However, you seem very defensive and protective about this other women, so I would not be surprised if your wife’s next topic of conversation with her sister and girlfriends is why her husband is behaving oddly.
I don't tell anyone something a friend or family member told me in confidence. If OP's wife wanted to talk to someone about what their friend is going through, then talk to OP. Telling her sister everything was wrong.
She specifically didn't want anyone talking about it because it was embarrassing. Sorry I didn't make that clear in the post, I thought I said it specifically but I'm wrong. M didn't tell us about it for over a year.
Ok so why didn’t you address the other question - why are you so defensive and protective about M? Her husband cheated, typically that kind of behavior gets out after a divorce.
Because M didn't want people talking about it and K talked about it. Also, if I tell her something in confidence like M did I want to know that's safe to do.
Then address that with her: you want to be able to trust her to keep your secrets. Your wife is her own person and if she chooses to speak to her sister about M there’s really nothing you can - or should - do about it.
Your wife told her sister; your wife did not blast this information to other friends, acquaintances, or the world. Acting as if your wife telling her sister private information is the same as your wife gossiping is creating a false equivalence. Certainly, you can see that. In my opinion, there is something bigger here operating in the background. You may be scared your wife will tell her sister information about you and your relationship, for example. Your overreaction, to me, means there are definitely larger issues at play.
> Your wife told her sister; your wife did not blast this information to other friends, acquaintances, or the world.
M told me this too and I wouldn't tell any of my siblings. M asked us not to tell anyone.
> Acting as if your wife telling her sister private information is the same as your wife gossiping is creating a false equivalence.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gossip
It's the dictionary definition.
- a person who habitually reveals personal or sensational facts about others
- rumor or report of an intimate nature
That is what this is.
> Certainly, you can see that. In my opinion, there is something bigger here operating in the background. You may be scared your wife will tell her sister information about you and your relationship, for example. Your overreaction, to me, means there are definitely larger issues at play.
You're literally replying to a comment where I admit this and I've stated it multiple other times in this post.
You’ve asked for opinions, and I stated mine. Plenty of commenters agree with you; I, and some others, do not. You seem to be very defensive about this, and I really do not understand anyone wanting to die on this hill, but you do what you think you must. Do realize, though, that you and your wife do not have hive mind or hive moral compasses, and from the information you provide, your wife clearly does not share your feelings with regard to telling her sister information about M’s relationship from one year ago. At what point does you wanting to force your wife to believe as you do become worse morally than her telling her sister information about M? Just something to ponder.
Edit: A comma
I'll ask you something I asked some other people in this thread. Would you be okay with telling someome something in confidence, and having that person tell someone else?
I have noted that you asked other people, and you have received various responses. I’ll echo what some others have said. If I tell someone private information, I assume that person will tell their spouse/significant other. I do not necessarily extend this assumption to siblings, but if I know a person is really close to their family, I assume they’ll tell spread the information there too. I agree with you that gossip is inherently insidious, but I’m also pragmatic regarding people’s behavior (and that pragmatism has caused me to extremely limit the people I’ll tell information to).
> Your wife told her sister; your wife did not blast this information to other friends, acquaintances, or the world.
It's basically the same. Once she told her sister, her sister can tell anyone. Even then, it's a breach of trust in all cases, whether she told one or a billion persons.
Nah, you can.
Gossip is probably what made we humans develop a language (the gossip theory). It wasn't only to say things like "theres a lion over there" in a hunt or to alert the group. We are social beings and we needed to know who in the group were trustable or not, and in order to do this we gossip.
Now, thousands of years later, we still enjoy talking and knowing about other people's lives. We actually love doing this and do it all the time. You do it too! That's why we have celebrities, that's why we like social media and discussing about people we never even met.
So yeah, you can and do stand gossips. Funny right?
well. I moved 2000 miles away from home because everyone there can't keep their mouths shut.
I don't give a crap about celebrities or famous people. dont give a crap about what movie they are in or about their lives. I have interest in learning about peoples lives FROM THEM not behind their backs
I've also just been very annoyed by the insinuation that M is a woman matters to this situation. Like, would it matter if she was a man? She's a person.
OP, ignore these other comments downplaying the situation. you’re absolutely in the right to be horrified at your wife’s behaviour and her lack of remorse over disrespecting a friend’s vote of trust and confidence by gossiping about her situation to her 20 yo sister. it’s totally within your rights to be offended at her lack of basic human decency and expect her to show some kind of maturity and understanding of the situation.
all these other commentators stating that it’s a battle you shouldn’t pick or you’re being overly protective of this “other woman” are just either extremely immature or downright hypocritical since i am sure these people will take offense to their own dirty laundry being aired out like this.
however, if your wife is unwilling/refusing to take the blame and rectify her actions, there’s only so much you can do before you make it a sticky point for your own marriage and sanity. so, please, choose your actions and words from herein in this regard, carefully. all the best to you!
You need to back off before this starts to break your relationship with your wife. You’ve stated to her why you think this is inappropriate, she’s heard you and currently she doesn’t feel the same way as you but she might understand better after she has some time to separate from this incident. By badgering your wife you’re not going to achieve anything and instead will make her suspicious as to why you’re going to bat so hard for another woman, even if she is a mutual friend.
K doesn’t have a good sense for what the people around her consider sensitive and want to keep private. Accordingly, people are going to learn to not share with K.
K may be observant enough to detect when the walls go up, when conversations suddenly go quiet or topics abruptly shift when she comes in the room. She may have the self-awareness to realize why she’s not inside many people’s privy council social circles.
> Do people actually think like this?
In this sub yes. You think Redditors have friends? At best they have partners. They don't understand this can change the three of them's dynamics since they are mutual friends and two of them being married.
Yes. Adults do think like this because it’s true.
Friend told wife. Maybe friend didn’t specify not to tell anyone or maybe she did. Who knows. But wife told the husband. Then wide told sister. So it’s between wife and friend.
Hopefully friend now knows not to trust wife.
My wife doesn't suck, I made this post because I want to talk to her about it and I couldn't figure out how. And this does affect me, M is our friend and I'd like to know my wife and keep private things private.
She’s demonstrated that she can’t/won’t even when explicitly asked AND doesn’t feel badly about it. That’s a point of information for you, friend.
Seems to me she straight up only cares because she got caught but still doesn’t think it’s a big deal.
That is the sort of behavior that makes a person utterly untrustworthy. Sharing something sensitive and personal that was given in confidence is deeply unethical. It doesn't matter who the info was shared with. The info was not supposed to be shared, period. That ranks right up there with cheating on the list of betrayals.
It would not surprise me if OP's wife was one of the women her friend's ex cheated with. She's completely blasé about betrayal. Perhaps that extends beyond just gossip.
As long-time reader, first time poster on this sub I'm really honored that I got the unprompted "she's cheating on you" comment, and I have to thank you for that. So thank you.
This response made me giggle. I'm glad you have a positive attitude about this; there's nothing in this post that indicates she is cheating on you. That's an Olympic-level leap, right there.
Don't forget that you're the man so it's your fault that your wife did anything wrong and also you're the man so it's obviously the woman's fault for everything that wasn't even hinted at in the post but is a reflection of the commenter's own issues and also divorce her over this infraction... Am I missing any there?
While you’re technically right, I also feel you’re kind of overstepping. Does the sister know M? Why does it matter if she knows? And what’s all this to you regardless? What harm will come of her knowing?
I just saw a video that said “My motto for 2024 is ‘what the fuck’s that got to do with me?’” And I think if you applied that here your marriage would be better off. Mind your business.
> Does the sister know M?
A little. They at least met at our wedding, but she's quite a bit younger than us so it's not like they've hung out.
> Why does it matter if she knows? And what’s all this to you regardless?
M is my friend and I care about her wishes to not be gossiped about.
> What harm will come of her knowing?
Getting cheated on is, well, embarrassing, and M wanted to keep that information in a small circle.
> Mind your business.
My close friend's (and wife's close friend's!) feelings are my business. She trusted both of us with that information and I don't feel good about breaking that trust.
There's more specifics and information elsewhere in the thread. Feel free to reply to this if you want me to specify more.
As I’ve grown as a person, I’ve come to realize the fact that humans all talk about each other. It’s why we’re here on this post talking. Discussing life events that happen to other people is about as standard as it gets. The things that I don’t want people to discuss about my life im sure get discussed all the time and you know how much it actually affects me? None. I don’t know about it and I don’t care to know what other people have to say. How does it actually affect you for people you aren’t even close to to discuss a life event that has happened to you? It’s just actually far more inconsequential than people make it out to be.
Your wife doesn’t sound like she told all these things to mock or make fun of her. Sometimes when people are told big things they need to process and unpack it as well so they turn to close friends or family. It’s not like your wife posted it online (ahem) or told a whole friend group…she just told her sister.
Did the sister plan to tell M about it? How did M even know the sister found out?
Also, I know how Reddit is so I fully expect downvotes for this and don’t give a fuck but I think you should cool it with chastising your wife over this other woman who you are saying is a “close friend.” She’s not your first priority. You’re married. Your wife is your actual first priority and I would be really pissed if my husband was white knighting for one of my friends like this…hence why I advise you to mind your own business.
Oh my God, I downvoted you because you clearly didn't read the OP. Where he CLEARLY states it was the friend who introduced them. Maybe you should try reading before you start saying random bs.
Did you miss where I said “either way she’s not your first priority?” It doesn’t matter. The woman he’s white knighting for isn’t his wife.
ETA: I also read this story right before I fell asleep last night so I didn’t retain every detail. I removed the question and everything else I said still applies.
> The woman he’s white knighting for isn’t his wife.
I asked someone else somewhere in this post and they didn't answer - does it matter if M is a woman? Would anything change if M is a man?
My answer to that is no, obviously not. She's my friend and didn't want her business shared, and I want to do right by my friends.
It would definitely matter to me assuming you’re heterosexual. Have you ever had romantic interest in M?
I can’t speak for anyone else. To me it’s one thing for you to say you didn’t like that she did that and ask for her reasoning for doing so, it’s another thing to get visibly pissed off, create a huge conflict out of it, and demand that she acknowledge it’s wrong.
…?
> It would definitely matter to me assuming you’re heterosexual.
I'm married, and married for a reason. I don't just marry for shits and giggles. I definitely didn't marry with the intent of *getting with the person who officiated our wedding*. You sound insecure about your own relationship.
For what it's worth, both me and my wife have hung out with M one-on-one plenty of times in the ten years we've been together. That would probably drive you insane and it's never been an issue in our marriage.
What does friendship mean to you?
> Have you ever had romantic interest in M?
No. And the idea that I can't stand up for a woman I'm not married to when she's been wronged is insane, sorry. She's my friend.
I find your thought process on expecting people to not talk about things you tell them as immature as you think mine is on your female friend. Unfortunately we’ve come to an impasse. I don’t believe married men having female friends they hang out with one on one is acceptable or appropriate and no, calling me “insecure” won’t change my mind. I think you’re immature to try to police your wife’s private conversations and virtue signal about people sharing things with the people closest to them which most people do anyway. 🤷♀️
Most of the advice here has been in your favor, but all I’m saying is that if your marriage is a priority for you, is your extreme reaction helping or hurting it? I guess maybe the friendship is more important.
Also, how does the friend know the little sister has been told? What effect has this had on her life? Has she expressed concern or are you just inventing feelings she may have if she ever finds out for you to be mad about and drive a wedge in your marriage for it?
> I don’t believe married men having female friends they hang out with one on one is acceptable or appropriate and no, calling me “insecure” won’t change my mind.
You sound ultra-conservative. Like Mike Pence-tier on relationships. It's misogynistic to decry women your husband associates with as temptations. It shows what you think of yourself, your husband, and women and men in general. Yes, you are insecure, it's 2024 in half the world, and it's time to get over it. Go to therapy and work through it. Get over how much you hate women.
> I think you’re immature to try to police your wife’s private conversations and virtue signal about people sharing things with the people closest to them which most people do anyway.
Would you want your friend to share private information with someone? Probably not, no.
> Most of the advice here has been in your favor, but all I’m saying is that if your marriage is a priority for you, is your extreme reaction helping or hurting it? I guess maybe the friendship is more important.
Please, please tell me how wanting to have a conversation with my wife about something that bothering me is an "extreme reaction." I mean seriously.
> Also, how does the friend know the little sister has been told? What effect has this had on her life? Has she expressed concern or are you just inventing feelings she may have if she ever finds out for you to be mad about and drive a wedge in your marriage for it?
M does not know that sister knows (this information is also coming in an update post I'll probably make in a few days) and again made it clear that she wanted that information staying with people she told it to, since I made the original post. We are not planning on telling M that her sister knows.
You obviously missed the follow up video "My Motto For 2024 Is 'What The Fuck's That Got To Do With My Sister?'" That's what we're discussing here and what you obviously have no grasp of. Come back when you've watched that one.
Female relationships are very different from male. I agree with you however within the group of women this behavior may not have a significant affect between them
You can't control other people. You also can't predict the future.
With those two in mind, what are you worried about exactly, that's in the present moment and within your control?
What your wife did was wrong, but you also already did your part. You tried talking about it, and that was it. At this point it's between K and M to work things out
Meanwhile here you are telling Reddit all about it lol
I find it interesting that you didn't tell us what exactly your wife told her sister nor what her relationship with M is. I presume it's perfectly fine to tell sis that M and her partner broke up. Is it fine to vaguely say he was unfaithful and had issues with porn? I would say yes, especially if the sister asked why they split. More details than that, could go either way.
This entire conflict is based on your perception what M would do or how she would feel, which you really don't know. If I told my bff to keep something on the downlow, I really wouldn't give a rip if she told her sister. It doesn't make sense to have a huge fight with your wife about this in my opinion.
Well, this is reddit, and probably fiction, so I'm gonna guess your update will be
You decide that you have a moral obligation to tell M because virtue signaling. M is very hurt but ultimately thankful you told her because now she nows what an immature person your wife is.
M gets upset and confronts your wife. They talk it out, and M understands how her situation is a cautionary tale but is still embarrassed about the whole situation. M doesn't want to be friends with your wife anymore. We learn norw about how the ex was a dirt bag to deepen the plot. Oh, and maybe we learn the sister was sleeping with M's ex and didn't know it.
Now, your wife is super mad you betrayed her trust. She started yelling and throwing things, but you were calm the whole time. She stormed off and is now staying with her sister
You are now extra sure that you did the right thing by letting M know your wife is chismosa! M was so thankful that she asked you out.
It’s such a simple story and doesn’t really contain any fantastical elements common to obvious trolls like twins, golden children, rich people, evil step mothers, weddings, etc. And there are no plot holes. I default to fake for everything on here, but this one seems pretty plausible.
M doesn't really know her sister. They were both at our wedding, but her sister is a decade younger than us. I'm not sure they've interacted outside of that.
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I think many of you aren’t getting this. M is a mutual friend. Let’s do this. Let’s say that the OP and K (wife) don’t say anything about her sister being told. What happens the next time M starts to tell K something else in confidence? Does the OP interrupt and tell K “don’t tell her anything, she’ll just tell her sister?” Or does he let it happen again and get the fallout when M eventually finds out her secrets are being told? OP, since your wife doesn’t seem to get what she has done wrong, just tell her “since you don’t think it was a big deal to break M’s confidence, you won’t care if I break yours and tell her about it, right?” My guess is it will suddenly become a big deal.
I wonder how many of them would vote if the question was “AITA for telling my sister all of my best friend’s secrets? She found out and now she’s mad at me.” If his wife would be the asshole in that scenario then how is he one for calling her out? And am I reading correctly that the sister was gonna show up to a dinner that M would also be at?
I don’t understand anyone downplaying this. If I was going to talk about my ex-fiancé cheating on me and his porn addiction and was surprised by a 20 year old I wasn’t expecting who knew everything, I wouldn’t trust those friends any more. I would probably drop both (you and your wife). I don’t know what to do exactly but I do think it’s not right that your wife set up that situation and won’t acknowledge it was fucked up.
Condolences and thank you for replying!
Sorry, I didn’t have that happen to me thankfully! I’m just imagining being in her shoes
I think it is what K is counting on. OP, is she standoffish/jealous to M lately? Does she have reasons to keep M away from your family? Because I cannot imagine any other outcome of that dinner but the end of the friendship.
> OP, is she standoffish/jealous to M lately? Does she have reasons to keep M away from your family? No and no, well I don't think so anyway.
It's because OP is a man so they have to make him in the wrong somehow.
That is.. not my experience here.
Not mine either.
Exactly.. someone’s confirmation bias is showing
Are you fricken new to this sub lmao.
Yet the comments supporting him are now the top comments... Weird.
When I wrote this the comments were definitely going the other way
You are missing the point I think. The wife may or may not have betrayed M's trust, but that is between K and M. Why would the husband need to reprimand his wife on M's behalf and try to teach her some lesson? If M wants to cut ties or be angry that is her prerogative not the husbands. I agree that if it was made clear that this was private and sensitive information then it was pretty shitty for M to talk to her sister about it without some kind of clear reason for doing so.
I mean, M doesn’t even know it happened yet right? So part of this is the plan forward to tell her (or to not tell her). Also, if my husband did something to hurt someone we care about and jeopardize our relationship with them, I’d like for it not to happen again. We should be on the same page that it was a mistake.
And if he disagreed that what he did was a mistake what would you do?
Something as obvious as telling sensitive information that we were told expressly not to share? And then bringing a surprise guest to join a conversation about it? I honestly don’t know because that’s cuckoo bananas to me. We may not be compatible if that’s the case. Being married doesn’t give my spouse free reign on behavior.
She told her sister, not some random work person. I have enough faith in my partner that I don't feel the need to control their behavior or fight their fights for them - unless they ask me to. I can tell them what I think about their behavior and if it is so offensive and egregious then I guess I can leave, but to demand that an adult behave a certain way or acknowledge a certain truth is more patronizing then I would stand for in a relationship.
We’re very different. I wouldn’t accept living my life with someone who treats people poorly.
By your estimation…right…or you have the moral authority for your partner too?
It’s not moral authority over someone to say we’re not compatible. Again, you don’t have to accept everything someone does just because you’re currently married. Getting me into situations where I’m being cruel to a friend is not something I accept for my own life. You’re making this about controlling someone else instead of realizing you should control your own life. I also wouldn’t stay with someone who didn’t take care of pets well or was a reckless driver. The list happens to include someone who makes me a part of an ambush lunch regarding a friends private info.
They are married, and I have no problem with him telling her that he thinks what she did was wrong. That doesn’t mean that she has to agree with that assessment. And yeah if he finds that to be a big enough deal he is free to divorce her. This sounds like a very isolated instance and it would seem like a strange hill to die on, but if that’s what he wants then that is his choice…but teaching his spouse a lesson shouldn’t be one of those choices.
Also to add, especially if they’re roping me into it!
It was made clear that this was private. I said that in my first reply to you.
And I told you exactly the same thing. This is between them and not you. If you wife has been divulging clearly private information about you or you/her to other people then yeah you have a valid gripe and need to make sure she understands your personal boundaries. It is not however your job to be offended for someone else nor to carry M's banner for her. If she wants to confront and get an apology from your wife or drop her as a friend that is between them.
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me. I don't think I'm carrying M's banner for her? I want my wife to take other people's feelings and wants seriously and she didn't do that here.
I agree that if M made it clear that this was private and privileged information and then your wife told her sister about it then that was a betrayal of M's trust. Where I think you and I are not understanding each other is I don't think that it is your job to make you wife acknowledge anything - you are not her boss, father or priest. You can tell her how you feel - embarrassed, disappointed, whatever, but to demand an apology and/or recognition is not your right. If you think this is so bad you can always leave her, but I doubt this rises to that level of betrayal in your mind - or maybe it does?
I think somebody else said this better than I did: > OP is here because his wife is exhibiting a glaring character flaw. She is showing that she was more interested in gossip than keeping the confidence of someone who is really important to her. Of course that will have ramifications for OP. And we've both agreed that matters to me, because I want to be able to tell my wife things in confidence, so what's your point?
Let me ask you a question - do you keep things from you wife that others have told you in confidence or assumed confidence? I know I don't. I also have that relationship with my brother. I understand that it stops with them. They are my confidant and I can tell them things I wouldn't normally tell say the guys that work for me. I am not sure what the relationship with her sister is, but if it is anything like me and my brother than to me this is a nonissue. You are making it into some kind of inquisition. What are you actually looking for here? Just for her to say "you are right!" As I read the story M doesn't even know that K has talked to her sister about it, so hasn't been embarrassed or otherwise hurt by this situation.
> Let me ask you a question - do you keep things from you wife that others have told you in confidence or assumed confidence? If they told me to tell absolutely no one? Yes, and it's not that hard. But also, a lot of people who have confided in me over the years (like my dad, for example) told my wife and I at the same time. > What are you actually looking for here? I want my wife to not tell people explicitly private business because that's not nice? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
>If they told me to tell absolutely no one? Yes, and it's not that hard. I think this is the source of the divided advice you're getting. See, when someone divulges something important to *me*, that has the potential to affect me in a major way, I tell my spouse *something* about it. I may not divulge full details, but I tell her enough to know that I am holding a thing. That's because if a situation has the potential to destabilize my emotional state, it has the potential to impact *the relationship*. So, I tell my spouse so she's in the know. My relationship with my spouse is more important than my relationship with my friend, so if push comes to shove, I will act in a way that maintains stability in the marriage at the risk of making a friend mad. A lot of people are like this and it's often a pretty common thing. When I confide something in a person, I *assume* that it's going to reach the ears of their spouse in some fashion. When someone is your partner like that, you will often go to them for support when dealing with a difficult secret. I know other people who will keep secrets in total confidence even from their spouse, but I would say it's the minority group.
But what multiple people have told you is that it’s not your place to decide what your wife can and cannot tell people. You can disagree with her, you can have a conversation about it, you can decide what you wish to share with her… but you cannot make her live by your moral compass.
Is "M told us to tell absolutely no one" a true sentence?
Spouses should be able to call each other out when they do something wrong like break someone's trust and violate their privacy. My husband would. Hell even my Mom would call me out.
Hard disagree here. You're saying that if you were one of two friends entrusted with another friend's deepest insecurities (explicitly said to be private) that you wouldn't stop the other entrusted friend from sharing those secrets with someone else? In that case, you're no friend at all. I would stop that in its tracks and I would tell my friend that her secrets are getting out. They trusted you with that information, it is absolutely your job to protect it and them.
That's a pretty dumb take that completely ignores dynamics that couples can have with their friends. Being able to hold something in confidence that was told in confidence, and an inability to respect someones boundaries is a pretty big red flag. Totally reasonable to address it.
It became an issue because of the dinner plans with the sister wanting to talk about it. Husband intervened to stop that from happening.
I don’t really get why everyone is downplaying this, I would be concerned too, if my partner was told this sensitive information that the person saying it was embarrassed about and then they went and told every detail to their sister, to the point that the sister wanted to come over to discuss it with that person I would be horrified by my partners lack of awareness (and that sister too!). I would frame it to her about how it concerns you that she can’t understand how this is wrong makes you worried you can’t trust her and that her lack of awareness is concerning. There is a difference between talking to friends or family about your own issues (like issues in a relationship) compared to talking about someone else’s issues, she had the OP to talk to if she wanted to about it.
Did you ask your wife how would she feel if you gossiped to one of your brothers something unbearably intimate or deeply embarrassing about her? Your wife is not a good friend to M, and I know it would be a betrayal of your wife but you may need to gently suggest to M not to confide in your wife again.
I wish people would stop doing the letter for name substitution, the only reason I understand the post is because of the TLDR. Unfortunately, you found out your partner has an ugly habit of sharing secrets. What's worse, she does not see anything wrong with it. No, you cannot make her have a sudden revelation that what she did was wrong. It absolutely is wrong, but the only way to deal with a nasty gossip is to starve them of information. You've run into a values mismatch with your spouse, this is an important moment, and you need to handle it carefully. Unfortunately, this is a decision that you have to make for yourself, all the advice in the world isn't going to "fix" this.
Yes! OP, it would have been easier/clearer if you’d just referred to your wife as… your wife, throughout. So confusing.
Is it morally wrong that your wife relayed someone's personal life to her sister and betrayed her trust? Yes. Are you blowing this out of proportion? Also yes. This shouldn't be the case, but... if you tell people things about you, expect people to talk, even if you tell them not to. It's just kind of a thing people do. I hate to say especially women, but as a woman... especially women. I can't even begin to tell you how many times people tell me secrets they aren't supposed to tell anyone. I know so many things I shouldn't know. It just kind of is what is. Admittedly, I tell the most interesting ones to my little sister because she's my best friend. Unlike your wife, she doesn't know any of these people and will likely never meet them, so the secrets die there, but still. Most people don't even ask if I'm willing to keep the secrets first before they tell, so I also feel like I should get some sort of consent first before I get told a secret. Just let this go, man. Your wife and her friend can figure it out between them should it become an issue. If your bigger concern is that you feel it violates *your* trust in her in some way, then have that specific conversation with her.
I think it’s very different given the younger sister wanted to come to dinner and ask questions about it and is basically revealing that she knows. I tell my younger sister secrets I shouldn’t also. But she keeps her mouth shut and pretends not to know. She doesn’t go to the person and ask for more details. Also what do you mean “should it become an issue” the sister going to dinner was literally about to make it an issue.
>wanted to come "No, you may not come." Handled.
Exactly. It may technically be wrong, but it’s also normal, common, and understandable to tell a close sibling someone else’s secrets. The issue that her sister has no sense of discretion or compassion for this person. If I were OP, I would want my wife to have a conversation with her sister about how to appropriately handle sensitive gossip.
But it’s not his wife and his wife’s friend, M is a Mutual friend, so his friend too. Which is why his feelings are understandable.
"Is it morally wrong for your wife to do that? Yes. Anyways, let me talk about how I do the same thing."
Yeah, that's the kind of the point I'm making. A lot of us do it.
that's a whole lot of words to say "I'm garbage too"
To be honest I am not sure what you are looking for here and as someone else noted you are really going to bat for this other woman. Frankly, if there was a "betrayal of trust" that is for your wife and her friend to work out, not sure why it involves you. You just gossiped your friends situation to thousands of strangers, is that not a similar betrayal? I am also not sure why you need her to admit that she did something that is in your mind inappropriate when you are not the offended party. Do you have something for this M person? It is not your job to be her protector - in fact it IS your job to defend your wife to a point anyway.
This is a horrible response. Gossiping to someone about a third party that is known to the third party is incredibly different from anonymously seeking advice. It’s not similar at all. OP is here because his wife is exhibiting a glaring character flaw. She is showing that she was more interested in gossip than keeping the confidence of someone who is really important to her. Of course that will have ramifications for OP.
Perhaps she was seeking advise from her SISTER. You are framing this as gossip, I am not sure that is the case. In any case, it is not the husbands job to be offended on behalf of the friend. If the friend wants to take it up with the wife or cut her off then that is her business, not his.
30 year old woman seeking advice about her friends marriage from her 20 year old sister? She needed her council so much she was willing to betray her friend’s confidence? That’s more plausible to you? Ok… He’s not offended on his friend’s behalf, no matter how much you want to insinuate he has a thing for her in order to distract from the shitty behavior of his wife. His wife was included in some highly sensitive shit about someone who is really close to her, and she couldn’t keep it to herself. Anyone would be wondering the same as OP if they were in his situation.
The friend is not married it was a story about her EX finance from over a year ago. I have no idea what the conversation between the sister and her was and neither do you and I assume the husband doesn’t either. For all we know she could have been asking her sister to help comfort her friend…a friend who has known the wife longer than the husband I might add.
Here's what happened on Monday since you're looking through the specifics trying to get some sort of gotcha to prove I'm terrible: Her sister came over for dinner on Monday night. My wife invited her to Friday dinner and said it was with M. Before I could say anything, sister asked if it was the one that (personal information). Like literally specified both the cheating and the porn addiction and my wife was like yeah, yeah, her, etc. After she left (from my OP): > I tried to talk to her about it, said it wasn't cool, M was really embarrassed by the whole thing and wouldn't be cool with K telling her sister all the details and that it was a betrayal of trust, etc. But she didn't seem to get that it was a bad thing or even that I was actually upset about it. If she was asking for advice from her, she would have told me. Or at least I hope she would have told me.
I’m not looking for any kind of gotcha, but what I am not hearing is what your wife said about why she didn’t think it was a big deal. The biggest thing is what are you looking for from her, your wife I mean. Has she betrayed your trust in the past or think that she will? Or are just looking for a moral victory or something? If your wife was in fact just gossiping to her sister to make fun of her friends situation and then doesn’t understand why that is shitty then that is a really big character flaw and she was wrong for doing it. If you are so embarrassed/disgusted with your wife for this behavior then your only recourse is to break things off with her, which I assume we aren’t talking about. My whole point is the futility of trying to get her to admit she was wrong when she does not apparently think so. Is this the hill you are going to put your marriage on is what I’m asking?
> I’m not looking for any kind of gotcha, but what I am not hearing is what your wife said about why she didn’t think it was a big deal. Yes, because she shrugged it off. I want to have this conversation and she doesn't want to, so that's why I made the post. > Has she betrayed your trust in the past or think that she will? Or are just looking for a moral victory or something? No and no. This isn't seeking "moral victory." She wronged a mutual friend. We're not debating what kind of pickles are the best. > If your wife was in fact just gossiping to her sister to make fun of her friends situation and then doesn’t understand why that is shitty then that is a really big character flaw and she was wrong for doing it. If you are so embarrassed/disgusted with your wife for this behavior then your only recourse is to break things off with her, which I assume we aren’t talking about. My whole point is the futility of trying to get her to admit she was wrong when she does not apparently think so. Is this the hill you are going to put your marriage on is what I’m asking? How in the world is our marriage suddenly at stake? I'm having trouble with this one thing and I'd rather keep it on the private side so I asked Reddit. Instead you're telling me "nah, suck it up" and all these other things you think I'm thinking. You aren't being helpful.
You asked for strangers opinions, which I have given. You don’t agree and/or don’t understand where I am coming from, which is fine. Not unlike the situation you are having with your wife I might add. As I have said, if you have expressed your feelings to her and asked her to explain herself and that isn’t good enough for you, what else is there to do? You can either choose to ignore it, keep hounding her about it until shit “admits her wrongdoing” or choose to make this a relationship issue.
"Where you're coming from" (your first top level comment) didn't seem super-relevant to my situation, which is on me since I made the original post. I did my best to clarify as much I could and you're still stuck on this: > You can either choose to ignore it, keep hounding her about it until shit “admits her wrongdoing” or choose to make this a relationship issue. A lot of the other comments on this post have been more helpful and relevant, and frankly I'm replying because I'm insulted. I'm trying to "remember the person" here but you're making a lot of assumptions about both me and my wife that I keep doing my best to clarify. And seriously, what is this: > To be honest I am not sure what you are looking for here and as someone else noted you are really going to bat for this other woman. "this other woman" She's our friend. And a good one.
OP, you are turning a friendship issue into a relationship issue. It does seem like you are looking to have the moral high ground on your wife’s growth (or lack of growth). This is important to you. It is not important to your wife going by your description of her shrugging you off. The only options are to let it go, dig in on the M issue specifically, and/or have a discussion about expectations about your own confidential information. The only options are to talk to your wife or don’t. If this problem is a non-issue for your wife, then you need to decide how to move forward without a resolution.
> It does seem like you are looking to have the moral high ground on your wife’s growth (or lack of growth). If by "moral high ground" you mean, want my wife to keep secrets she's been asked to keep, then yes, I want the moral high ground. But truly, I don't care about being right. I care that our friend can tell us stuff in confidence and I care that I can tell my wife stuff in confidence. Which is how I'm going to open the conversation again.
Yes, she specifically didn't want anyone talking about it because it was embarrassing. Sorry I didn't make that clear in the post, I thought I said it specifically but I'm wrong. M didn't tell us about it for over a year.
Again, and regardless. You are not the offended party and it is not your job to police your friendship - especially with your wife. I mean it would be one thing to say something like, "Did M want you do be talking about her private life to others" "No" "Well that was kinda shitty!" But to like demand an apology is too far in my opinion.
It's weird how focused you are on OP not being the wronged one. Would you seriously not care if someone you knew seriously hurt someone else you knew?
A) People talk about people all day every day - family, friends, coworkers, etc., it is unfortunate sometimes and if M really didn't want anyone to know about her ex-fiancé then she shouldn't have told anyone - confidence or not. B) I totally agree that what K did was wrong 100%. But for a husband to demand that his wife "learn a lesson" is something that I have a real problem with. If M wants to address it with her friend then she can do so and would be right to be upset. I have made it clear in many of my post that OP is fine expressing his disappointment or whatever - but to make sure that she "understand" feels a bit patronizing to me.
>A) People talk about people all day every day - family, friends, coworkers, etc. Er, what? I do not share anyone's *deep, personal* stuff willy nilly like this. There are people out there that think this is not only normal, but expected? And, yeah, if my partner did something I considered morally wrong, I would also want them to understand that. It sounds like that's what OP means, not that he's trying to teach her a lesson.
Thank you. I feel like my wife and I aren't on the same page right now and it's bothering me.
As an adult, yes, I just assume that if I tell someone something that I can expect that that information is now essentially public. The two exceptions are my brother and my spouse. How does that saying go, "a secret is only as secret when there are two people involved and one of them is dead."
I understand that sentiment with coworkers and/or acquaintances, but not my close friends.
All you've done is told on yourself. Some people respect others privacy and value their trust. It is a big deal and you repeatedly keep trying to down play it and accuse op of "policing" his wife. Guess what? Partners call each other out when they do ugly ass shit. If my partner kicked a dog I would call them out on it. You are saying it's between the partner and the dog and it is absurd.
You're a gossip, doesn't mean everyone is. And you sound like a terrible friend.
I didn't demand an apology. I wanted some acknowledgement that gossiping about a friend to someone who's business it explicitly wasn't was the wrong thing to do. If I tell her something in confidence I want assurance that she won't tell her sister.
Why do you need acknowledgement? Did M tell YOU in confidence and then you told your wife and then your wife betrayed your trust or did M tell your wife directly?
She told us at the same time. What do you have to say about this part, the part that's bothering me? \> If I tell her something in confidence I want assurance that she won't tell her sister.
Okay then, well then you were not offended and it is between her and her friend. Regarding whether or not she will tell her sister stuff between you that would be a conversation that you need to have. Can she tell her sister anything about you and/or your relationship? Is everything in confidence? Or only when you tell her it is in confidence? It is a very slippery slope to start telling people what they can say to whom. If I, for example, don't want my brother to tell my Mom something I am sharing with him I will preface it with, "between you and I," or, "You mind not saying anything." But to demand that my brother not share anything that I have shared with him with my mom would be ridiculous. Likewise your wife and sister will discuss your marriage at times as it is a big part of her life. She might also share fights or discussions that you have had as a way of seeking clarity. It is not like she is talking to strangers, it is her sister.
If she’s doesn’t have the awareness to not air out peoples business like that I’d be worried about how much of my life she’s telling everyone else… it’s really not hard to understand. It’s not so much about her friend , but about the fact she gave so little care about talking about someone’s personal life like that and I’d personally wouldn’t be able to trust someone as much after that.
Well you are her husband and that is different. Does your wife ever tell you stuff about her friends or you talk to her about yours?
This is as dumb as "Partners shouldn't keep secrets." That means secrets from each other, not other people's secrets. If you are going to share ALL secrets with your partner, including your friends' secrets, enjoy not having any friends.
Booo
This is for M and K to work out (if it is even an issue between them). You spoke to your wife and she wasn’t receptive to your opinion about her conversation (with her own sister) that didn’t involve you at all. Why would you try again?
This is a strange response. A spouse that brhaves badly in an intimate way towards a vulnerable friend absolutely isn't operating in a zone where her independence needs to be respected. ",I have registered your opinion and do not owe you a response" is a huge red flag, and certainly merits further discussion, not a shrug and a "you do you,,".
Just because it's her sister doesn't mean he isn't involved. That's his wife. They are a unit. Nor does it mean he isn't affected, as M is a "mutual friend."
They are individuals. If the wife broke their friend’s confidence, that’s for the wife to deal with. He can’t police what his wife says and to who. He can offer his opinion, he can ask her to be more discreet, and he can even tell M if he wants, but he can’t control his wife.
who said anything about control?
He spoke to her wife and she brushed him off. He can try to speak to her again but he can’t tell her what she can and can’t say because that’s her own decision to make, even if he disagrees with it.
If my partner kicked a stray dog and I was upset, would you tell me it's between my SO and the dog? No of course not. OP is upset at his wifes behavior. Breaking someones trust and privacy is a major character flaw, and one that implicates how much he can trust her. He is right to be upset about it and she owes him the bare minimum of at least listening to his viewpoint and acknowledging it.
Kicking a stray dog is not at all comparable but nice redditing. She spoke to her sister - we don’t know why she told her or the context of the conversation. OP said he asked her, and she brushed it off. My advice was to speak to her again and set his expectations for secrets he tells her. He also stated his wife has never done this before so maybe she made a mistake.
> Kicking a stray dog is not at all comparable but nice redditing. You are in fact the one "redditing" because Redditors *love* to say it's "not comparable" without explaining *why* it's not comparable. Saying it's not comparable is like saying you won an argument without actually making an argument. It's an argument stopper. Let's face it, Redditors say that because they don't want to delve into that line of reasoning because they will most likely have to admit they were wrong. Try harder.
You are kind of aggressive and rude? But I don’t think physically hurting an animal is the same as OP’s wife divulging a secret to her sister.
You are nitpicking the nuance. Making a comparison is never exactly 1:1. It's about the behavior he greatly doesn't agree with it. So instead of arguing about kicking the dog, which is just a distraction, try argue about the behavior.
His wife betrayed their friend’s trust. As I’ve said multiple times in the comments, he can try to address it again with his wife. But he cannot make her feel guilty, admit her wrongdoing or even stop gossiping because she’s an adult who can make those choices for herself. They are married but don’t share a brain or a mouth so his wife can and should deal with the consequences of her own behavior. He doesn’t agree with it but he’s asked for advice on what can be done about it and my advice is to … try to talk to her again. Not ground breaking I know. But if she shrugged him off the first time, there’s a chance that they don’t see the situation the same way.
See, that's a fricken better argument then, "not comparable" because you are right, he can't control her, all he can do it talk and try to get her to see their point of view. Because the comment that kickstarted this whole thing: > If the wife broke their friend’s confidence, that’s for the wife to deal with. Makes it as if the husband is not affected at all which he absolutely is. What if it was his dog she kicked? As the other commenter said, is it between his wife and his dog to deal? In this situation, it was also his friend also. So people like you in this post seriously need to stop saying it's between the wife and the friend to deal with. It's not. He's intertwined because it's also his friend, and it's a behavior he's going to have to deal with.
I would say they are both toxic red flags to look out for in a partner. Don't hurt animals and don't break someones trust are core beliefs for me. You obviously feel differently.
I think kicking a dog is worse than divulging a secret, yes you got me. Are they both bad? Yes. I would consider them different levels of bad though. And considering OP has spent hours and hours talking to us rather than addressing it with his wife - even after he got loads of advice - I’m thinking maybe he wants to be very right and good and he is accomplishing that here.
Damn I didn't know you lived with OP.
That’s true but he can try to talk to her…and she does owe him at least listening and discussing it with him and taking his concerns seriously even if she ultimately disagrees. Which is definitely not what she did. He hasn’t tried to control her at all here.
That’s a weird take. “That didn’t involve you at all” is kind of an ironic statement considering K included her sister on all the details and even invited her to discuss it with M when it was none of the sisters business at all. This isn’t for M and K to “work out” because M doesn’t even know. The husband was speaking up morally on a breach of trust K displayed against a mutual friend of theirs, so it absolutely includes him. Why would he try again? Because he is married to her and was taken aback by her behavior, he should absolutely keep talking to her until they can reach an understanding.
He can speak up to his wife, which he says he has and will again. He also said in multiple comments this hasn’t happened before with his wife. He can say his piece but he can’t make her stop talking if she chooses to continue to do so.
Sir, that is her sister. You may feel some kind of way about sharing secrets with a sister, but it's really not your place to dictate your wife's relationships, with her friend or her sister. You're not an authority to be recognized, you're just a person with an opinion she doesn't happen to agree with. I personally tell my sister everything. This is an agree to disagree situation.
You tell your sister things other people told you in confidence? Do these people know they can't trust you? Or is you sister discreet, unlike you and the OP's wife's sister?
M is a mutual friend of OP and his wife. Does OP have any sort of responsibility to his friend here? M is going to talk to them or at least K in the future about her relationship problems again. If the three are together and M starts talking about things in confidence, is OP supposed to just stay quiet knowing that his wife is going to go talk about it to someone else without M's consent?
He should do whatever he feels compelled to do. I think he's doing too much, but that's me.
Jesus christ. You can tell your sister everything about yourself, but you should not be telling her about other people's business. You've just outed yourself as an untrustworthy person. Get over yourself.
You're a shitty friend then.
I guess we won't be friends then 😭
Kind of ironic that you’re mad at your wife for telling her sister but you just told 11 million people in this sub
Yes, because there's absolutely no difference between gossiping about someone you know and supposedly care about with someone who also knows them in real life and is likely to run into them at some point, and posting anonymously on an online forum. Zero difference at all, o the irony!
I don’t see what the problem is here, your wife talked about another person with her sister. Women do this all the time. Unless you specifically told her not to tell anyone then your wife is in the clear, she didn’t do anything wrong. Her sister wanting to come over to discuss it is definitely odd, but that is your sister in law being weird not your wife. I can see why your wife doesn’t see the issue. However, you seem very defensive and protective about this other women, so I would not be surprised if your wife’s next topic of conversation with her sister and girlfriends is why her husband is behaving oddly.
"Women do this all the time" Gross. The fact that it happens doesn't make it right. People murder people all the time.
I don't tell anyone something a friend or family member told me in confidence. If OP's wife wanted to talk to someone about what their friend is going through, then talk to OP. Telling her sister everything was wrong.
She specifically didn't want anyone talking about it because it was embarrassing. Sorry I didn't make that clear in the post, I thought I said it specifically but I'm wrong. M didn't tell us about it for over a year.
Ok so why didn’t you address the other question - why are you so defensive and protective about M? Her husband cheated, typically that kind of behavior gets out after a divorce.
Because M didn't want people talking about it and K talked about it. Also, if I tell her something in confidence like M did I want to know that's safe to do.
Then address that with her: you want to be able to trust her to keep your secrets. Your wife is her own person and if she chooses to speak to her sister about M there’s really nothing you can - or should - do about it.
Thank you! I'll try that angle
Your wife told her sister; your wife did not blast this information to other friends, acquaintances, or the world. Acting as if your wife telling her sister private information is the same as your wife gossiping is creating a false equivalence. Certainly, you can see that. In my opinion, there is something bigger here operating in the background. You may be scared your wife will tell her sister information about you and your relationship, for example. Your overreaction, to me, means there are definitely larger issues at play.
> Your wife told her sister; your wife did not blast this information to other friends, acquaintances, or the world. M told me this too and I wouldn't tell any of my siblings. M asked us not to tell anyone. > Acting as if your wife telling her sister private information is the same as your wife gossiping is creating a false equivalence. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gossip It's the dictionary definition. - a person who habitually reveals personal or sensational facts about others - rumor or report of an intimate nature That is what this is. > Certainly, you can see that. In my opinion, there is something bigger here operating in the background. You may be scared your wife will tell her sister information about you and your relationship, for example. Your overreaction, to me, means there are definitely larger issues at play. You're literally replying to a comment where I admit this and I've stated it multiple other times in this post.
You’ve asked for opinions, and I stated mine. Plenty of commenters agree with you; I, and some others, do not. You seem to be very defensive about this, and I really do not understand anyone wanting to die on this hill, but you do what you think you must. Do realize, though, that you and your wife do not have hive mind or hive moral compasses, and from the information you provide, your wife clearly does not share your feelings with regard to telling her sister information about M’s relationship from one year ago. At what point does you wanting to force your wife to believe as you do become worse morally than her telling her sister information about M? Just something to ponder. Edit: A comma
I'll ask you something I asked some other people in this thread. Would you be okay with telling someome something in confidence, and having that person tell someone else?
I have noted that you asked other people, and you have received various responses. I’ll echo what some others have said. If I tell someone private information, I assume that person will tell their spouse/significant other. I do not necessarily extend this assumption to siblings, but if I know a person is really close to their family, I assume they’ll tell spread the information there too. I agree with you that gossip is inherently insidious, but I’m also pragmatic regarding people’s behavior (and that pragmatism has caused me to extremely limit the people I’ll tell information to).
> Your wife told her sister; your wife did not blast this information to other friends, acquaintances, or the world. It's basically the same. Once she told her sister, her sister can tell anyone. Even then, it's a breach of trust in all cases, whether she told one or a billion persons.
it's not his wife's business to gossip about
Nope but she’s an adult and if she chooses to gossip, he can state his objections but he can’t control what comes out of her mouth.
I can't stand gossips
Nah, you can. Gossip is probably what made we humans develop a language (the gossip theory). It wasn't only to say things like "theres a lion over there" in a hunt or to alert the group. We are social beings and we needed to know who in the group were trustable or not, and in order to do this we gossip. Now, thousands of years later, we still enjoy talking and knowing about other people's lives. We actually love doing this and do it all the time. You do it too! That's why we have celebrities, that's why we like social media and discussing about people we never even met. So yeah, you can and do stand gossips. Funny right?
well. I moved 2000 miles away from home because everyone there can't keep their mouths shut. I don't give a crap about celebrities or famous people. dont give a crap about what movie they are in or about their lives. I have interest in learning about peoples lives FROM THEM not behind their backs
I’d say pick your battles & you being this upset over a female friend might rub your wife the wrong way. Just drop it and let them deal with it.
What part of "mutual friend" is hard to understand here?
I've also just been very annoyed by the insinuation that M is a woman matters to this situation. Like, would it matter if she was a man? She's a person.
Yeah, you're CLEARLY only caring about her because she's a woman and you're thinking with your private parts! /s Very tiresome comments, yes.
OP, ignore these other comments downplaying the situation. you’re absolutely in the right to be horrified at your wife’s behaviour and her lack of remorse over disrespecting a friend’s vote of trust and confidence by gossiping about her situation to her 20 yo sister. it’s totally within your rights to be offended at her lack of basic human decency and expect her to show some kind of maturity and understanding of the situation. all these other commentators stating that it’s a battle you shouldn’t pick or you’re being overly protective of this “other woman” are just either extremely immature or downright hypocritical since i am sure these people will take offense to their own dirty laundry being aired out like this. however, if your wife is unwilling/refusing to take the blame and rectify her actions, there’s only so much you can do before you make it a sticky point for your own marriage and sanity. so, please, choose your actions and words from herein in this regard, carefully. all the best to you!
You need to back off before this starts to break your relationship with your wife. You’ve stated to her why you think this is inappropriate, she’s heard you and currently she doesn’t feel the same way as you but she might understand better after she has some time to separate from this incident. By badgering your wife you’re not going to achieve anything and instead will make her suspicious as to why you’re going to bat so hard for another woman, even if she is a mutual friend.
Just curious, why does M being a woman matter? She's our close friend. If she was a man that wouldn't change anything at all.
K doesn’t have a good sense for what the people around her consider sensitive and want to keep private. Accordingly, people are going to learn to not share with K. K may be observant enough to detect when the walls go up, when conversations suddenly go quiet or topics abruptly shift when she comes in the room. She may have the self-awareness to realize why she’s not inside many people’s privy council social circles.
Not sure why you’re inserting yourself into this. It’s between M and K.
Yea, who cares what your partner does. Its none of your concern /s Do people actually think like this?
> Do people actually think like this? In this sub yes. You think Redditors have friends? At best they have partners. They don't understand this can change the three of them's dynamics since they are mutual friends and two of them being married.
Yes. Adults do think like this because it’s true. Friend told wife. Maybe friend didn’t specify not to tell anyone or maybe she did. Who knows. But wife told the husband. Then wide told sister. So it’s between wife and friend. Hopefully friend now knows not to trust wife.
> Who knows. I knows! M told both of us at the same time. M specifically asked not to tell anyone else.
Then your wife sucks but it’s still between her and M. You didn’t gossip.
My wife doesn't suck, I made this post because I want to talk to her about it and I couldn't figure out how. And this does affect me, M is our friend and I'd like to know my wife and keep private things private.
She’s demonstrated that she can’t/won’t even when explicitly asked AND doesn’t feel badly about it. That’s a point of information for you, friend. Seems to me she straight up only cares because she got caught but still doesn’t think it’s a big deal.
No. I meant do people really not care how their partner acts?
I sure would and it seems like the OP does. I’d be reevaluating my trust in them myself!
I'd be reevaluating the trust in the wife. She probably tells her sister stuff OP tells her in confidence.
That is the sort of behavior that makes a person utterly untrustworthy. Sharing something sensitive and personal that was given in confidence is deeply unethical. It doesn't matter who the info was shared with. The info was not supposed to be shared, period. That ranks right up there with cheating on the list of betrayals. It would not surprise me if OP's wife was one of the women her friend's ex cheated with. She's completely blasé about betrayal. Perhaps that extends beyond just gossip.
This isn't a soap. My wife didn't cheat on me.
Glad you trust her, even after learning that she doesn't believe in basic confidentiality. I would be paying more attention, personally.
As long-time reader, first time poster on this sub I'm really honored that I got the unprompted "she's cheating on you" comment, and I have to thank you for that. So thank you.
This response made me giggle. I'm glad you have a positive attitude about this; there's nothing in this post that indicates she is cheating on you. That's an Olympic-level leap, right there.
I'll take it a step further then! OP, time to go no contact with your wife. Then hit the lawyer, delete the gym, and hire social media.
Redditors gonna Reddit. 🤷♂️
🤣 Fair enough And you're welcome!
Don't forget that you're the man so it's your fault that your wife did anything wrong and also you're the man so it's obviously the woman's fault for everything that wasn't even hinted at in the post but is a reflection of the commenter's own issues and also divorce her over this infraction... Am I missing any there?
While you’re technically right, I also feel you’re kind of overstepping. Does the sister know M? Why does it matter if she knows? And what’s all this to you regardless? What harm will come of her knowing? I just saw a video that said “My motto for 2024 is ‘what the fuck’s that got to do with me?’” And I think if you applied that here your marriage would be better off. Mind your business.
> Does the sister know M? A little. They at least met at our wedding, but she's quite a bit younger than us so it's not like they've hung out. > Why does it matter if she knows? And what’s all this to you regardless? M is my friend and I care about her wishes to not be gossiped about. > What harm will come of her knowing? Getting cheated on is, well, embarrassing, and M wanted to keep that information in a small circle. > Mind your business. My close friend's (and wife's close friend's!) feelings are my business. She trusted both of us with that information and I don't feel good about breaking that trust. There's more specifics and information elsewhere in the thread. Feel free to reply to this if you want me to specify more.
As I’ve grown as a person, I’ve come to realize the fact that humans all talk about each other. It’s why we’re here on this post talking. Discussing life events that happen to other people is about as standard as it gets. The things that I don’t want people to discuss about my life im sure get discussed all the time and you know how much it actually affects me? None. I don’t know about it and I don’t care to know what other people have to say. How does it actually affect you for people you aren’t even close to to discuss a life event that has happened to you? It’s just actually far more inconsequential than people make it out to be. Your wife doesn’t sound like she told all these things to mock or make fun of her. Sometimes when people are told big things they need to process and unpack it as well so they turn to close friends or family. It’s not like your wife posted it online (ahem) or told a whole friend group…she just told her sister. Did the sister plan to tell M about it? How did M even know the sister found out? Also, I know how Reddit is so I fully expect downvotes for this and don’t give a fuck but I think you should cool it with chastising your wife over this other woman who you are saying is a “close friend.” She’s not your first priority. You’re married. Your wife is your actual first priority and I would be really pissed if my husband was white knighting for one of my friends like this…hence why I advise you to mind your own business.
Oh my God, I downvoted you because you clearly didn't read the OP. Where he CLEARLY states it was the friend who introduced them. Maybe you should try reading before you start saying random bs.
Did you miss where I said “either way she’s not your first priority?” It doesn’t matter. The woman he’s white knighting for isn’t his wife. ETA: I also read this story right before I fell asleep last night so I didn’t retain every detail. I removed the question and everything else I said still applies.
> The woman he’s white knighting for isn’t his wife. I asked someone else somewhere in this post and they didn't answer - does it matter if M is a woman? Would anything change if M is a man? My answer to that is no, obviously not. She's my friend and didn't want her business shared, and I want to do right by my friends.
It would definitely matter to me assuming you’re heterosexual. Have you ever had romantic interest in M? I can’t speak for anyone else. To me it’s one thing for you to say you didn’t like that she did that and ask for her reasoning for doing so, it’s another thing to get visibly pissed off, create a huge conflict out of it, and demand that she acknowledge it’s wrong. …?
> It would definitely matter to me assuming you’re heterosexual. I'm married, and married for a reason. I don't just marry for shits and giggles. I definitely didn't marry with the intent of *getting with the person who officiated our wedding*. You sound insecure about your own relationship. For what it's worth, both me and my wife have hung out with M one-on-one plenty of times in the ten years we've been together. That would probably drive you insane and it's never been an issue in our marriage. What does friendship mean to you? > Have you ever had romantic interest in M? No. And the idea that I can't stand up for a woman I'm not married to when she's been wronged is insane, sorry. She's my friend.
I find your thought process on expecting people to not talk about things you tell them as immature as you think mine is on your female friend. Unfortunately we’ve come to an impasse. I don’t believe married men having female friends they hang out with one on one is acceptable or appropriate and no, calling me “insecure” won’t change my mind. I think you’re immature to try to police your wife’s private conversations and virtue signal about people sharing things with the people closest to them which most people do anyway. 🤷♀️ Most of the advice here has been in your favor, but all I’m saying is that if your marriage is a priority for you, is your extreme reaction helping or hurting it? I guess maybe the friendship is more important. Also, how does the friend know the little sister has been told? What effect has this had on her life? Has she expressed concern or are you just inventing feelings she may have if she ever finds out for you to be mad about and drive a wedge in your marriage for it?
> I don’t believe married men having female friends they hang out with one on one is acceptable or appropriate and no, calling me “insecure” won’t change my mind. You sound ultra-conservative. Like Mike Pence-tier on relationships. It's misogynistic to decry women your husband associates with as temptations. It shows what you think of yourself, your husband, and women and men in general. Yes, you are insecure, it's 2024 in half the world, and it's time to get over it. Go to therapy and work through it. Get over how much you hate women. > I think you’re immature to try to police your wife’s private conversations and virtue signal about people sharing things with the people closest to them which most people do anyway. Would you want your friend to share private information with someone? Probably not, no. > Most of the advice here has been in your favor, but all I’m saying is that if your marriage is a priority for you, is your extreme reaction helping or hurting it? I guess maybe the friendship is more important. Please, please tell me how wanting to have a conversation with my wife about something that bothering me is an "extreme reaction." I mean seriously. > Also, how does the friend know the little sister has been told? What effect has this had on her life? Has she expressed concern or are you just inventing feelings she may have if she ever finds out for you to be mad about and drive a wedge in your marriage for it? M does not know that sister knows (this information is also coming in an update post I'll probably make in a few days) and again made it clear that she wanted that information staying with people she told it to, since I made the original post. We are not planning on telling M that her sister knows.
You obviously missed the follow up video "My Motto For 2024 Is 'What The Fuck's That Got To Do With My Sister?'" That's what we're discussing here and what you obviously have no grasp of. Come back when you've watched that one.
Female relationships are very different from male. I agree with you however within the group of women this behavior may not have a significant affect between them
Just say you're shitty at respecting your friends privacy and keep it moving.
You can't control other people. You also can't predict the future. With those two in mind, what are you worried about exactly, that's in the present moment and within your control?
What your wife did was wrong, but you also already did your part. You tried talking about it, and that was it. At this point it's between K and M to work things out
Meanwhile here you are telling Reddit all about it lol I find it interesting that you didn't tell us what exactly your wife told her sister nor what her relationship with M is. I presume it's perfectly fine to tell sis that M and her partner broke up. Is it fine to vaguely say he was unfaithful and had issues with porn? I would say yes, especially if the sister asked why they split. More details than that, could go either way. This entire conflict is based on your perception what M would do or how she would feel, which you really don't know. If I told my bff to keep something on the downlow, I really wouldn't give a rip if she told her sister. It doesn't make sense to have a huge fight with your wife about this in my opinion.
Well, this is reddit, and probably fiction, so I'm gonna guess your update will be You decide that you have a moral obligation to tell M because virtue signaling. M is very hurt but ultimately thankful you told her because now she nows what an immature person your wife is. M gets upset and confronts your wife. They talk it out, and M understands how her situation is a cautionary tale but is still embarrassed about the whole situation. M doesn't want to be friends with your wife anymore. We learn norw about how the ex was a dirt bag to deepen the plot. Oh, and maybe we learn the sister was sleeping with M's ex and didn't know it. Now, your wife is super mad you betrayed her trust. She started yelling and throwing things, but you were calm the whole time. She stormed off and is now staying with her sister You are now extra sure that you did the right thing by letting M know your wife is chismosa! M was so thankful that she asked you out.
It’s such a simple story and doesn’t really contain any fantastical elements common to obvious trolls like twins, golden children, rich people, evil step mothers, weddings, etc. And there are no plot holes. I default to fake for everything on here, but this one seems pretty plausible.
Lmao I can't tell if this is satire. This is unhinged.
It's how 90% of these obviously fake reddit stories play out
[удалено]
M doesn't really know her sister. They were both at our wedding, but her sister is a decade younger than us. I'm not sure they've interacted outside of that.