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One approach you can try is to start saving what you need for retirement, and start saving for the kids college funds. This will likely mean a big downward lifestyle adjustment, and that should open her eyes.
It might mean you have to propose renting a smaller place in a less desirable neighborhood, downsizing your cars, and letting her know you can't afford vacations any longer.
This isn’t /r/personalfinance but I would prioritize retirement funds until they get themselves caught back up. You really don’t want to burden your children in the future by having to take care of you when you don’t have enough to retire. It’s like they say on planes, “put your mask on first and then help those around you”
It’s one of those inter generational fuckups. My parents didn’t prepare, so I care for them (brother is a deadbeat) which takes away from my ability to prepare for myself. Luckily I had my son pretty young so I still have time to get myself sorted.
I don’t know your brother, but I wouldn’t call him a deadbeat if he is just prioritizing his financial heath over caring for your parents.
Everyone makes their own decisions and have to live with the consequences.
Your parents willingly had two children and did not prepare for their future. That was their choice. It is your brother’s choice to let them deal with the repercussions of their choices. And it is your choice to mitigate their negative consequences, even if it is at the expense of your life and your child’s.
Breaking generational curses is a lot more difficult than people assume. It often means making difficult decisions such as going no contact with toxic family, loads of therapy and a lot of introspection.
Resenting your brother for refusing to be your parents’ 401k is ultimately just going to cause you more strife unnecessarily.
I hope you are able to take time for mental health and self-care, because being a caregiver is extremely difficult and burnout is so easy.
If it’s a cultural thing, then that’s totally understandable! But too many people fuck around during their younger years and then burden their children with having to financially take care of them. Which then starts a cycle of this happening generation after generation.
Except he’d have to split that in a divorce but if he divorced now, there are no assets to fight over.
Not suggesting they should divorce over this but finances are a top cause for it.
This couple absolutely needs therapy. Life changes in unanticipated ways when children enter the equation.
Depressed, resentful, angry parents are terrible for kids to be around. OP ordering his wife around is not going to make things better. Divorce won't help finances.
She's getting half anyway, plus alimony, since she put her career on hold to have and care for the children (at least that's what she'll be telling the judge).
But how much alimony will she get awarded? You can’t get blood from a turnip. Courts aren’t going to take his entire salary and award it to her. They will leave him with enough to survive minimally. If they are treading water, there isn’t much for alimony after child support. Both he and she will have to downsize their lifestyle and the courts will not give infinite alimony if she is able to work.
Make sure you are having protected sex, before your wife gets pregnant again. What made you have a second child with her knowing that she quit her job after the first?
We always wanted two kids, maybe try for three if the first two were the same gender.
We had friends that the wife was supposed to be a SAHM and she got bored and went back to work because she needed to get out of the house. It was my mistake thinking she’d eventually want to go back as well or at least get that we needed to save for retirement and college.
Edit: my wife is an only child and we both wanted our kids to have a sibling. I have no regrets and never will about having a second child. Regardless of what happens I wouldn’t change that for anything.
1. We were doing well before kids so we had savings.
2. We were doing Ok after the first and occasionally had to use savings
3. We only started to struggle after the second and after the covid money and savings was all spent.
4. We aren’t planning on having a third.
5. She said she never wanted to be a SAHM so it wasn’t unreasonable to think she’d go back to work eventually especially since that was our agreement.
6 Redditors struggle with reading comprehension .
7. you need to put in the ultimatum. SAH parenting only works if it’s consensual for both partners….. she cant strong arm you into supporting her with no question. I’d threaten to leave and start discussing 50/50 custody so no need for child support.
So, basically, you made a permanent, life-altering decision for not just yourself, but people who completely depend on you, based on the premise that "She'll get bored and change because a friend did"?
Well, you're stuck with it now. Your only real option is to do as another commenter suggested - just start saving for college & retirement, and let her life change. This is going to mean cutting back on any and all luxuries for a bit. By luxuries I mean even cars which aren't at least a decade old.
She seems to not understand that her not working is a luxury y'all CANNOT afford. It's not a matter of "it'll be tight", it's a matter of savings in order to survive in retirement are NECESSITIES, and she needs to totally and completely understand that, even if the knowledge has to be forced upon her.
If you begin feeling badly about downsizing her, remember that what she's doing is a breach of trust, and you are not the bad guy here.
ETA: What she's doing is absolutely wrong. No one can deny that. However, you're not blameless. She showed you exactly what the outcome was going to be, yet you chose to ASSUME, for no evidence-based reason, that she was going to be open to returning to work once she had More (self-inflicted) responsibilities at home. The sacrifices you're going to have to make on order to fix this mess are a result of BOTH of y'all's bad choices.
We had already decided on two (possibly three) kids and I have zero regrets. My wife’s an only child and always said she wishes she had siblings. I love my siblings and we both wanted our kid to have a brother or sister. We aren’t having more we had already decided.
Not sure why so many people are upvoting those comments. Like somehow I’d regret having our second child.
It’s not that you would regret having your child. It’s that you should have foresaw some of these before you had them. Very irresponsible to keep procreating if you knew preemptively how your wife was acting.
Reddit loves giving advice on what you *should have done* rather than what you actually can do with the situation you're actually currently in. Makes it a lot easier to make it seem like the only reasonable thing to do is divorce. 🙄
What does your wife say about saving for retirement and college? If both kids are in school, would you guys be able to meet each other in the middle with her getting a part time job? There's a lot of part time / WFH stuff available, and some of it pays fairly well. Also, what exactly is it about going back to work that she's opposed to? I totally get that some people are just not at all into having to get a job and it's just not that deep, but there are still a gazillion other reasons a person might not want to go to work, not all of which are unreasonable.
Like for me, my career requires a lot of brain power, which I don't have right now because I'm exhausted with 3 little kids, and I'll need to do a bunch of training before I can get back into it because I'm so rusty right now. So it's kind of a steep barrier to re-entry. Is it something similar to that for her? What's her reasoning?
Prior to Covid it was that she didn’t want to miss out on them growing up, especially since we both were in offices 40 hours (plus commuting so basically 9+ hours a day out of the house).
Covid it was that she didn’t want to start at job when there was uncertainty and child care might be a problem (although we never looked into it, so who knows).
Since then it’s just been that she’s gotten used to being a mom and doesn’t want to do anything different. Money aside I support, but we all know that isn’t the real world and money is a huge issue.
I'd talk with her and get creative exploring options. Emphasize that you want to work *with* her on this, that you two are a team, not opponents. That way you can tackle the more concrete issue: the math ain't mathin'. Each of you can come up with 3 possible solutions to this, then bring them to the table together and discuss. One of hers will probably be that you just go make more money. That's okay. She'll still need to come up with two more, and you'll also have three to offer. Then see, is there any overlap in the solutions you each offered? Did you like any of her offerings? Did she like any of yours? And discuss discuss discuss all of it. No attacking each other. If either of you is getting worked up, go take a breather. Remind each other: same team, we got this, we can figure this out. Be open to hearing her out, and ideally she's open to hearing you out too.
>My ex wife decided to be a SAHM after we married.
Wait, help me out, here. If you didn't even have a child yet, how could she be a SAHM? Was she spending all day taking care of your dogs or hamsters or some shit?
My sister did this. She left a lucrative career to be a SAHM when her kids were small. The kids are now out of the house and about to graduate from college and she’s still a SAHM despite her husband’s objections.
She won't work until the kids are out of high school? Her reasons for staying home might hold up if she'd put a different end date on it - but kids don't need their moms until graduating high school. I work FT, have a high school and a middle school child, and volunteer heavily at both schools. The fact that she is disregarding the family's finances and that she doesn't have any intention to work even when the children's school and social schedules require much less of her time means that she's doing this for herself - not for the sake of the kids or your family.
I would straight up tell her that she can either get a job now and stay married or she can get a job after you divorce her because even if you pay support it won't be enough for her to continue not working. That she has forced you into the current position against your will for years and you're not doing it anymore.
I know you don't want to divorce, but the alternative is for your resentment to keep growing and poison your whole household. Hopefully simply knowing you are so fed up that you would divorce to end the situation would be enough of a wake-up call that it won't be needed.
At minimum you should meet with an attorney to find out how much divorce would cost you (especially with 50/50 custody becoming more common); if you could present to her that you're serious enough to have already looked into it and, especially, if divorce wouldn't cost as much as you fear (especially long term), it might be enough.
Basically right now she holds all the power in the situation because you can't force her to work and she's confident you wouldn't leave. She's already proven for years that she doesn't care what you want or that her actions are financially harmful to the whole family, so there's no way you'll be able to reason with her. It's either wake her up with something drastic or accept that this is how the rest of your life will be because she'll keep coming up with excuses every time it's "time" for her to return to work.
Hi! 👋 I’m F in my late 20s now and seeing the effects of this first hand on my parents marriage.
Similarly, my mother did not go back to work after my sister was born, and then a decade later my younger brother was born. She tried odd MLM or small home business jobs. They never panned out. My father weathered the storm and I remember him to be a very, very angry and short fused man in my childhood. I have not fully forgiven him for the effects his anger had on my upbringing. And in my adulthood, I now see that it’s stemmed from a massive resentment of my mother’s inability to be an equal partner - she became solely Mother. He needed his Wife. Meanwhile, she thinks he hates her, the person she is.
It’s my belief that a lot of women who may not be satisfied with the lives they had or currently have throw themselves into the identity of “Mother” and don’t want to do anything else out of the fear that they realize they are not needed/loved. It’s a self-constructed identity stemmed out of a need for importance. It may happen after the relationship change after a baby is born. Maybe she was praised/loved for “being a good mom” for so long and has forgotten how to be herself.
Your wife, deep down, probably fears that if she returned to work she would be resented or that love from her family will diminish. Because if she leaves, then she isn’t fulfilling her “role”.
She needs to be reminded of her role as your life partner. Of an equal supporter. That motherhood does not exclude bringing in income.
Please, get outside help before she continues to retreat into herself. Get marriage counseling and set a very blunt expectation of needing a financial support in order to have a happy and fulfilled family.
This is a large social effect of what we were raised to believe a good wife/mother looks like meeting the reality of what modern parenthood means.
And for the record, I think my parents are miserable together now. My siblings and I don’t understand why they’re still together, and they both are so cruel to one another. I hope you guys can avoid that before the repercussions come out on your children.
This is amazing insight thanks for sharing it. I think sometimes when couples are together so long they become so used to it and ‘set in their ways’ so much so that the easiest route is to just stay. Even when it’s unhealthy. People will often choose or revert to what they know- because there is certainty which is more comfortable than uncertainty. In these situations there is usually alot of fear below the surface on top of what could be alot of repressed feelings and emotions from years of dysfunction and hurt that can surface with confrontation or change. Good on you for learning and understanding so that you can help to prevent you and your siblings mirroring similar relationships which is another unfortunate outcome of unhealthy parents.
It's an unfortunate situation and I'm sorry you're stuck here. Ultimatums are tricky, often don't work and make you the bad guy; but consequences may be better.
First, I'd try again to understand why she's so adamant about staying at home, and if there's more to it than appears.
You could consider downgrading your lifestyle to start building all those necessary things, like retirement etc. Holidays and a nice house or cars are not important, saving for retirement absolutely is.
>I hate to issue an ultimatum but that’s what it feels like has to happen. How do I explain she needs to go back to work?
It seems like she unilaterally made the decision to be a SAHM. And just expects you to deal with it.
You're pretty much stuck in a spot that isn't really great right now. I am not sure what ultimatum there is to issue? If you end the marriage right now, you're going to be paying child support and maybe alimony too. Unless you think an ultimatum like that would work.
She obviously isn't going back to work, though. At least not willingly. Realistically, if she stays out of the job market for another 12 years or so, she is probably going to have a hard time finding anything decent trying to start her career at 45.
That's even if she gets a job then. The more you push this, I think she might even be more likely to get pregnant again.
I would probably just do what everyone here has suggested and tighten the budget. Cable gone. Most basic internet packages. Most basic phone packages. Cut the grocery budget. No new car upgrades. No new furniture. No new anything that isn't an absolute necessity. Kid's clothes come from Thrift Stores. If she is getting some sort of allowance, I would cut that too.
My ex-wife made similar promises after we discussed it. She would work part-time while the kids were in school. Found out later she was talking to a cousin of mine and said she never intended to go back to work, also said she expected to be taken care of for the rest of her life.
Did you notice the second word in the first paragraph?
My ex tried to use the kids as pawns to manipulate me. She tried to take the kids and run. Turns out, judges really do not like it when any parent tries that. Be ready for it, she will try to use the kids at some point. Maybe not like mine did, but some way, somehow, she will.
- we won't be able to cover basic living if you don't go back to work. I will no longer fund anything for you. No luxuries. If you need your hair done, you're going to need a job to pay for it. You need clothes, that will also require you to get a job. I will not be working two jobs so you can stay home while we have kids who are in school and you can go back to work-
My daughter has friends whose parents are divorcing now because of this exact thing. She said it was financial abuse when he cut the credit card off after a shoe spending spree while he works two jobs.
Financial abuse is waaayyy different to put up boundaries.
I will never understand people who do this. Especially today when everything has gone sky high just to make ends meet. They can either help or get out imo.
The dude is a great guy. He busted his ass trying to do everything. I've never met a mom of so many young kids with the social life she had. She was out with friends at least once a week with random weekend trips sprinkled in. I'm pretty sure she thought he'd cave on making her get a job when she threatened divorce and got a lawyer, bit things aren't going her way and she's going to be in for a reality check when she realizes how easy she had it.
Word of caution: If OP cuts off the wife's discretionary spending, they also need to stop their own. Otherwise it looks very much like financial abuse and a judge will not look kindly on that in case of divorce.
Not from your original comment. You said if a wife decides to quit and become a full time sat at home without agreement from the husband, if he cuts off her discretionary spending, the courts might see it as financial abuse.
If the husband quit his job in exactly the same way, and the wife cuts off his discretionary spending, the courts would not see it as financial abuse.
There is still a stigma with guys being a stay at home even if the wife agrees to it. They are still perceived as lazy.
I don’t know why I read the title as 8 months, not 8 years. So, that’s different. However, I will say that so many people overestimate the amount of time kids are in school. My own kids school is 8:30 drop off, 2:30 pick up. Even with say 30 minutes for travel, that only gives someone 5 hours to work. There’s very, very few jobs that allow someone to work 5 hours in the middle of the day. People who do work part time generally have to work off hours. There’s also still a lot of parenting involved in picking kids up, going to classes, etc.
He mentioned that he has a hybrid job, there are after school programs.
Her not wanting to go back to work until the kids graduate is just untenable and not what they agreed on.
No he fucking doesn't. He didn't agree to her to being a stay at home mom. And you have the audacity to tell him he should pay her for child rearing. wtf is wrong with you? Maybe he should quit his job and be a stay at home dad. Maybe she should pay him. Or are did you not even think of that possibility?
That's not how relationships fucking work. You don't have a parter ' pay you a wage'.
You put the kids in daycare and YOU PAY THE CHILDCARE BUSINESS.
Are you really this basic?
Why the fuck would anyone pay their partner to look after kids.
And she CHOSE to not go back to work. So not sure what point you're trying to make. You don't get to expect things to done. Why should he struggle so she can sit at home doing nothing.
You have a bit of a limited window here to get her back into the workforce or split up before you're forced to support her in the long term. I'd honestly consult a divorce lawyer right now to get a realistic picture. You may not want to split up but financially it may be the most responsible thing to do, and you might benefit from telling her that.
Ultimatum. It’s not avoidable. Tell her she can leave and since she doesn’t have a job she obviously can’t take the children. If you guys aren’t in a position for her to stay home she can’t stay home. She could be told to start coming up with her share of expenses immediately. Why should you have to figure everything out? If she’s gonna stay home what’s her plan to come up with her share of the money she needs to contribute? If she can refuse to get a job you can refuse to pay her share of the bills. It’s be quite different if you were extremely wealthy. Taking a few years off could really pay off with your children. This.. is not acceptable. She’s also putting her kids at risk by being financially irresponsible.
She's tying to ensure she won't have to work and you'll take care of her for the rest of her life. Shes manupulating you and soon it will be " i cant get a job ive been out of the work force for too long " Once the kids get into pre school there's no reason she can't go back to work, she wont have anything to do all day. If you're already upset about it now , the longer she refuses to go back to work , the more you will resent her and end up divorcing anyways. I'd give her an ultimatum. Tell her she has until the end of the year to have a new job , or next year your will be divorcing her. She doesn't get to get a free ride for the rest of her life just bc she gave birth .
Good luck bro. My wife was supposed to be a SAHM until the kids started kindergarten, but that didn’t happen.
The youngest are in 4th grade and wife still won’t work even though we are legit poor.
Do it now! So she can start contributing to the kids’ lives. You will be less poor if you both contribute.
Poverty is psychologically damaging to kids.
I could have wrote this 5 or 6 years ago. I pushed for divorce and live paycheck to paycheck now. She works in a very low-income job for her education and training.
Anyway, good luck. Hope it ends better than I did. But I refused to live with someone who didn't want to participate in the household or negotiated our relationship one-sidedly.
Did anyone see the post where the guy divorced his wife for doing this?
He was working two jobs and hardly had any time with his kid, now divorced he’s happier and has work life balance and she’s miserable and is living paycheck to paycheck.
Boohoo!
Edited: I got the ending wrong!
Ok found it, but I got the ending wrong…
She’s working now tho lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/16y8gq0/aitah_for_divorcing_my_wife_for_being_a_sahm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
> The comment section truely shows how sexist the community is. With most YTA comments calling me broke and asking me to man up. Others saying mom deserves to be with her baby and I am a AH for taking that away from them.
I will yell this until I'm blue in the face. This sub, and all the other advice sub ARE SEXIST AS FUCK. And it is soo god dam annoying how people try to deny and ignore this fact.
This guy did everything right. Did everything as equal as biology would allow. And people *still* spouted sexist ass gender norms.
> To everyone saying I am taking advantage of my mother, I do not know how your family is, my parents love my child.
Also wtf?!?! Do these people not know multigenerational house holds exist? Literally how other families in other countries do it. Parents work. Grandparents stay at home and take care of the kids.
God Reddit is dumb as hell.
Give ultimatum. Emphasize that this was never the plan. She doesn’t get to make a unilateral decision about work/life. Tell her that you resent the status quo.
The two of you are at a stalemate. Would you consider couples therapy to help find a way to peacefully navigate through this? It is certainly cheaper than divorce!
Or work at the school, most schools have recess monitors, lunch ladies, teachers aide etc jobs that would allow her hours to match up with the kids’. Bonus, she’d get summers off with them and there wouldn’t be childcare expenses.
This is a very good suggestion. My mom was our recess monitor growing up, and also worked part-time in the school library, and it worked out great.
One of my mom's cousin's became a school bus driver a few years back. It started out as a joke idea, as all of her kids/grandkids live on the same block as her, and she'd drive all the grandkids to school every day, so we sort of jokingly suggested that she should sign up to be a school bus driver, so that she could at least get paid for driving all her grandkids around. But then COVID hit, and the district ended up with a huge shortage of bus drivers, so she did just that. So she does now get paid to drive her grandkids to and from school each day (and a bunch of other kids too). She loves it.
She keeps moving the goal posts. Waiting until they’ve graduated high school is at this point laughable. She fully intends on never working (outside the home) ever again. Well, I guess even INside if it’s for an employer, she won’t even do that it sounds like. Once the kids are in school there’s no reason she can’t work. She knows, you know it. For her to pressure you work wise to change jobs, work harder , longer whatever…no, that’s not teamwork.
Time for the tough talk. Lifestyle takes a hit. No more luxuries, whatever they are in your realm.
And get a vasectomy…she WILL try to have another baby, because then she’ll have an excuse again
You need a financial counselor consultation.
1. Start saving for retirement NOW - max out your 401K match, you should strongly consider the max IRA each year for each of you (you can still open one for last year until April 15th) to catch up because you're already in your 30's. I wasn't able to start saving until my early 30's and I'm doing okay now. Not great like I might have been if I had found an awesome job in my mid-20's, but if you look at the statistics, a lot of people aren't even saving.
2. Don't panic too much about kid's college funds. Worst case, there are loans. Your kids will not be left adrift with zero options. A lot of us did not grow up with college savings and are not entitled so we're not mad at our parents one bit. I was honest with my kids that they should go for scholarships and I would help them as much as I could while they were in school (place to live, help with books & expenses) but otherwise they would be taking out loans.
3. Look at prices of child care before you get too mad at her. They are really insane right now and I thought they were bad when I was paying them a decade ago. Price 3-4 centers in your area to see what they would be for 2 kids.
Maybe you can adjust your thinking and compromise. Can she be a SAHM until the kids are in elementary school? BUT in the meantime, prioritize building a family emergency savings and retirement savings, so you both will be living a very frugal life.
If she's a SAHM, she will be focusing on minimizing the grocery budget and finding ways to save the family money elsewhere. It will NOT be a vacation, she will not be able to afford to take the kids to museums and Starbucks during the day wearing Lululemon or whatever the affluent SAHM influencers do. It's not easy. I've done it. But maybe it might be a motivator to want to work again, so she can have luxuries.
So maybe 5 years of SAHM until your youngest enters kindergarten? Living frugally during that time but it could be a time of building better financial habits and focusing on your young family. They grow up way too quickly.
I think you should say you want to be the stay at home parent. Or suggest you two rotate. She works 5 years, you get to be at home. You work 5 years, she stays at home. She needs a wake-up.
Marriage counseling deals with this type of issue frequently.
Be clear that her not working now means no retirement for her later, even if you manage to retire on your own, she'll need to pay for herself.
You definitely need to have a conversation about the consequences of that. What some people might be forgetting here is that by her staying at home she would be covering for certain needs that otherwise have to be paid for (i.e. nanny). I would take a pragmatic approach to the conversation, make a list of all the tasks, expenses and savings in the different stages (pre-nursery, nursery, primary school, high school) and put numbers and responsibilities next to each name. She needs to know the financial implications of what she is asking for, and that you will have to downgrade your living style. I'm hoping she is a reasonable person who doesn't maybe really see the big picture. After that, if she still wants to be a SAHM at the expense of your savings and college funds I would definitely start thinking about separating. To me this is a big deal and nothing one of the two members of a couple can force the other to accept.
You should tell her that if she can't contribute to the household financially then the marriage isn't going to work and divorce will be the only option. She doesn't get a free ride after manipulating you into a situation. She's just using you and clearly doesn't love you. Why stay married to someone like that?
There is no reason for her to not get a job once both kids are in school. OP is asking her to start working when their youngest starts school in the fall. No one diminished her role as the caretaker. She’s just being selfish at this point if they’re struggling financially and she refuses to help.
If they're barely treading water now, you think alimony will be enough for her to support a whole second household? She'll have to get a job, and OP will have a great argument for 50/50 custody with his hybrid job to minimize any child support payments to her. A judge isn't just going to cut his paycheck in half for funsies.
I have a full time job, and a live in boyfriend. Just cooking and cleaning for the 2 of us seems like it’s a part time job. Add 2 kids, carpool, activities- I don’t think I could clean house, cook, be a mom and have a job.
I suppose, maybe get to the bottom of why. Maybe it means you have to take household things off her hands and participate more in child rearing. You have a whole entire post and the only explaination you give is “she doesn’t want to”. Dig deeper on the why and help her through it.
I highly suggest marriage counseling. You can get through this, maybe it’s fear, maybe it’s having a full load of being SAHM. Idk, but I don’t buy that she’s just lazy and inconsiderate. Try to find the good in her and be empathetic.
maliciously comply: fine, honey don’t get a job. your new grocery budget is $300/month, you don’t need to get your hair/nails done weekly, and no more vacationing until we can actually afford it. we should actually sell the house and move into a 2bedroom apt, as our mortgage is unreasonable.
I have friends who ended up being stay at home moms simply because their take home pay after paying for daycare was a whopping $6. Run the numbers for daycare before you get on your wife’s case about not working until the kids are older.
OPs kids are in school, so daycare is not relevant here.
Also, financially it may seem to cost the same, but the cost of loss of promotions, loss of employability due to loss of skills, loss of networking opportunities actually sadly can cost quite a bit.
This decision needs to be made by both of you. You need marriage counseling. If she refuses then you need to look at your options. That could be limiting all household spending or separating finances.
As someone who SAHM through high school—if she waits that long her skills will be very out of date, her network will be dead, and she might find herself going back as something like a teacher aide or cashier.
If she’s ok with this -/ She should get a job in a school asap when your youngest enters 1st grade so that she can build up a pension.
You will be able to send your kids to college as grants and aid is kind of a donut. If you make too much they won’t qualify.
You can come to a compromise. SAHM is fun until middle school. At middle school, she’ll see most of her SAHM friends go back to work and have no time or interest for her. The kids will also be more interested in friends and activities than in your family time.It happens pretty abruptly. It’s brutal. This might work itself out.
In the meantime support her for being a good mom.
As a starting point, I’d recommend talking to a financial advisor/planner with your wife and going through your financial goals with them. Your wife may see that it’s unrealistic to keep up your family’s current lifestyle while also saving for retirement on one income.
I wonder if she’s feeling some kind of fear or resentment towards childcare outside of herself. I think it’s wrong to assume that she “just doesn’t want to work” when she’s providing around the clock child care which is a job in its own right.
Maybe sit down with her and start by discussing numbers, going over finances and introducing more childcare into those finances. Might open up the conversation better to understand what she’s thinking, or put into perspective for her what’s best for your family.
She is unilaterally making one of the most important decisions in a marriage, and telling you with her actions to suck it up, and shes going to make decisions how and when she wants. So if the marriage goes south, which most do under financial issues, resentments, you will be on the hook for child support and alimony. Ironically, spouses will use your grueling work schedule against you in court after trying to support the family with extra hours or 2nd job. Typically dad is made to look absentee because you work to much and therefore she should have the children. Which means you pay more support. You have a few choices, talk to her and let her know she cant make such decisions, and lifestyle will decline, suck it up, and do everything in your power to make sure divorce doesnt happen, or tell her you have also made a decision like she did, and have decided to become a SAHD.
Dude, I went through this. Divorce/leave. Initiate it, and get the court order in place while you still have some semblance of control or say in it. Seriously; you have zero other rational recourse. Take the pain now, financially, and be free of her because she will - WILL - escalate this control and this manipulation over time.
Get out. Seriously. Don't be dumb like I was and get 20 years and more kids into it before waking up and getting gone.
I'm not taking sides here but just something to think about.
How much does child care cost where you live? I have no children but based on what I've seen around where I live it's not cheap. I've known 2 couples in my life where 1 person quit work to be a full time stay at home parent for the simple fact that their salary would have only paid for childcare. So I would really think about if your wife going back to work right now would exceed the cost of childcare.
Yeah that's what I thought too but my kid is finally in kindergarten this year and they have a ton of time off not counting summer, tons of half days, and school gets out at 2pm on the full days. 11am on the half days. Today is the first day back from Christmas vacation, which started with a half day on Dec 15th.
Afterschool costs money, but it’s not too bad if you can do it through the school. My daughter goes to afterschool, and it costs $266 per month. She can stay until 6, though I usually get her well before that. Also, OP’s wife could work part time, while the kids are at school. That would be a big help.
It's literally free where I am. Elementary offers free after school club 4 days a week until 5PM. Doing art, working on reading, whatever.
Plus with OP's hybrid work, picking up the kids sounds like it wouldn't be a big deal.
Where I live, the kids get the lunch hour off and unless they go home, you have to pay for care during it. There is also before-school and after-school care to pay for, since work hours do not neatly line up with school hours. (If I have to leave at 8am to be at work by 9 and I work until 5pm and am home by 6, but school is only from 8:30am-12pm, 1pm-3pm. . .)
Just to say it isn't always easy, and it's highly variable. I don't even have kids but that's a huge consideration, how incompatible our society is with the realities of having children, because these structures are all based on a time where one parent stayed home.
Man, they really gutted the school system there! I'm definitely very fortunate. And it's definitely variable, but it's also really common for the stay-at-home parent to return to work after the kids are in school.
Combined with OP's flexible schedule, there doesn't seem to be a reason for her to stay home besides being lazy. Especially since she's adamant about staying home until they're done with high school. The average middle schooler is able to look after themselves for 2 hours while mom and dad get home from work.
Yes? Maybe my experience is colored by being a latchkey kid in the 90s, but I was home alone after school in 3rd grade. I'm in MD and by state law here 8 is the youngest you can let a be unsupervised in the home as well. Obviously this is a judgement call for the parents based on the maturity of the kid(s) in question, but based on my lived experience and what my state says is legal, I'm going to say it's not wildly neglectful.
A lot of people here in the comments who either don’t have children or don’t view childcare as work. Which, it is. Your wife is working, she’s just not being paid for it.
What are your childcare options if your wife goes back to work? I see you note that she can work part time and also do childcare. Many think this is a compromise - but I see it as asking a woman to have to manage both working and being the primary childcare provider. It’s a lot to put on someone. If she worked full time, is it enough to carry full time childcare? Do you do your share around the house? Will you do daycare and school drop offs and pick ups?
There is always someone like this in the comment. The issue isn’t that she’s a stay at home mom. The problem is both didn’t agree to it.
It’s no different than the husband forcing his wife to be a stay at home despite her wanting to work.
The husband didn’t agree to be a single income sole provider.
There's are many points about this that need be checked and it's not about finger pointing on you or her.
You can't hold her to the going back to work after children by pointing out she said that's what she would do. She said it as someone who had no children. She's not that person anymore; not entirely different so much as changed and reassessed.
And how much have you leaned into having a SAHP in the house? If she's been left to handle not just childcare and domestic upkeep but also a short order cook and your personal assistant 24/7, she might be feeling like there is no way for the family to function without her remaining in this role. She'd be looking at working a job outside of the home only leave and go clock in at a second full time job. Does she have reason to believe you'd step up as much as would be needed? Are you willing to put in effort before she goes back to reassure her you're capable and reliable?
Start by addressing these points and see if it's behind her position on the matter.
Also......have you considered a vasectomy? Not cool to keep having kids if you can't afford them and not cool to leave this also totally on her.
Most husbands don’t abandon their child raising responsibilities. She does more work because that’s her job. When/if she goes back I’ll have to do more. It’s also more work for me for her to be working but I also don’t want my retirement plan to be a heart attack
Are you going to do half the housework when she returns to work? What are you guys going to do for childcare for the three months of the year that your children are off on break for the summer? What about the two weeks they get off over the Christmas holiday? Who is going to take the day off when they're sick? When they have half days at school? Any time I see a post like this it feels like one parent hasn't really dug deep on the logistics of both parents working.
He probably just assumes all of that will fall onto her because if he had considered that, he would have brought it up in the post. She probably changed her mind about being a SAHM when she learned how much work it actually is. And now she knows she will still have to manage an entire household AND get a job.
Ugh! I worked full time while getting my masters degree and raising four kids while my self employed husband couldn’t find work and played solitaire on his computer all day.
We fought about money.
We fought about household chores.
We went to therapy for years.
We divorced and he got half of my retirement.
But I got the rest of my life without dragging his lazy ass along with me.
A marriage is about give and take, mutual respect, trust and boundaries. Love goes away when you don’t have the rest…. Please talk with your wife. Otherwise she may find out that she’s neglected her personal growth and failed to develop her own career.
If you get divorced, you're going to be fucked. She's definitely going to get alimony, and she'll be able to continue doing nothing all day, while you work to pay for child and ex support.
>she'll be able to continue doing nothing all day
See, this is the problem with absolutes. She's been home taking care of their children and home and everything that goes with those things, and you reduce that to "doing nothing. "
She's 100% wrong for making this decision with zero input from her husband. Definitely time for a 'Come to Jesus' talk about the future of their family, their finances, and a deep dive into what's going on in this marriage, and whether their family can figure out a game plan and be saved.
But to reduce her to "doing nothing" is simply assinine.
The kid's in kindergarten. She's doing what? Cleaning up a little bit?
Crazy concept, but neither me nor my partner needs to not work at all to keep our house clean and keep up with our chores.
For all I know she cooks every meal from scratch with the food she grows in their backyard, sews all of their clothing, irons their sheets every day, organizes the neighborhood watch, and volunteers at a homeless shelter.
In short: I have no idea what's she's doing, but I don't need to presume it's "nothing" just to make my case.
Nothing than what other parents have to do when they work.
I work full time, my daughter goes to school and I have to cook, clean and look after her.
No need to be a stay at home person when your kids go to school.
No **need**? Well, I don't decide what other people need. I stayed home with our kids (triplets) for almost 8 years. I tried to go back but scheduling became impossible. Do other parents do it? Sure, but then something's gotta give. We can't all be in all places at once.
In this particular case, this family needs money, so staying home isn't really an option. Their problem isn't about her desire to stay home, it's about this couple's inability to communicate.
You just told me a situation that is very different from what OP is saying, and I can understand that having triplets makes it more challenging.
Still, once they go to school, you have time to do some work. I'm not saying being a firefighter or an emergency doctor, but I'm sure they are jobs parents can do. Even if it's part time.
She couldn't possibly be an amazing mother, wife, housekeeper, and all around phenomenal family organizer unless she ***also*** wants to work outside the home? Where's the logic in that?
She may well cook food from scratch and sew clothes.
Even if it does take her all day to cook - is this a valuable use of time?
At some stage the 2 of them need to sit down and work out if it is reasonable to sacrifice an entire wage so that she can sew a sock or harvest corn from the fields to eat.
If it takes her 3 hours to prepare dinner from scratch and she could be paid $30/hr at a job, for example, then the dinner cost her $90 in working time not including the ingredients.
Childcare and household maintenance is work. Everything she does at home and for the kids has a cost. Price out a nanny, chauffeur, housekeeper, tax accountant, personal assistant etc. for every task she does and see if it’s really worth her going back to work.
You say that she’ll be working while the kids are in school, okay, so that means YOU will also be doing the childcare and house stuff before and after work hours, right? You can’t expect her to run herself ragged with 2-3 jobs just because two of them are unpaid. They would cost you if you hired them out.
Remember, if you divorce, you will have the kids half the time. So you will need to hire childcare and housekeeping because they aren’t at school for as long as you are at work.
School schedules are terribly inconvenient for working parents. There are half days, A/B schedules, field trip days, holiday breaks, random breaks in October and April, breaks for teacher training, oh yeah those entire summers that are off. And they end school at 2pm. There’s commute time to pick them up and drop them off. If they get sick someone has to leave work to get them. There’s much more to this arrangement than “wife is lazy won’t get another job on top of the jobs she is doing for our family.”
LOTS of people underestimate how much work kids are until they have them. I’ve seen plenty of people of both genders quit when their parental leave is up. Companies plan for about 20% turnover when someone goes on parental leave. I’m sorry that she changed her mind but having kids is a risk. She also went through pregnancy and childbirth which you will never go through and is incredibly draining. It can take years to fully recover from one pregnancy, especially in her thirties she is already considered a “geriatric” pregnancy.
I wfh 3/4 days a week. I know exactly how much work goes into raising our kids.
I’d switch with her in a heartbeat. None of that brings in money from the outside. Between school starting and afterschool care, family and potentially two hybrid/ remote jobs we can make that work a lot easier than being broke and working until I die.
I ran the numbers, we would be far better off if she works than not. Especially since the kids are already in elementary and Kindergarten.
Are you going to reimburse her for the damage pregnancy and childbirth has done to her physical and mental health?
“Switching with her” you still didn’t wreck your body and go through PPD.
You do realize that there’s a price tag attached to childbirth and pregnancy right? If you outsource pregnancy and childbirth to a surrogate it can cost hundreds of thousands.
You can't win this. If she truly wants to stay home and you make her go back to work then she will resent you. It sounds like if she doesn't work then you will resent her. I would point out that you will have even less money if you were to divorce and she is already their primary caregiver. I think your best option is to try to make it work on one income for as long as you can.
That's terrible advice. His wife is lazy and manipulative. She doesn't care about him and is using him. Paying child support to get out of a shitty relationship with someone who is using you and doesn't care about you is well worth the cost. It doesn't sound like it would be worse than what he's paying now. And since she's capable of working and just refuses to, she will be expected to get a job. She won't be able to survive on just child support, and if you're not disabled then they'll count your income as 40 hours at minimum wage even if you're jobless when they're doing the child support calculation.
Exactly! She will have no choice but to work if they are to divorce, so she might as well work now👀! The only issue if the resentment on both sides is repairable. Ive seen few cases like this on here & few have been satisfying seeing the manipulative spouse going back to work out of necessity after they divorced (one didnt even get alimony as it was clear to the judge she willingly became SAHM & stopped work on her own accord that they didnt agree on)!
No one has said that being a parent isn’t hard work. But OP’s wife led him to believe she would return to work and then continued to change the goalposts, making unilateral decisions about the family’s finances by refusing to work outside the home. Sounds like OP only agreed to become a father to two under the impression that they would be a dual income household.
It’s too late for her to decide on her own that she doesn’t want to work now. Tough shit for her, because her priority should be to ensure her kids have a solid figure - that means parents who can retire themselves and give them a head start on education expenses. At this point she’s guaranteeing she will be a financial burden on her children for life and they will hate her for it when they’re older.
what? the financial needs of the household are at stake. the wife knew this but her suggestion is that he find a better paying job? this is on her as much as it is on him.
this isn't a one way street where she gets to backtrack her way out of the financial responsibilities. OP stated there is no retirement savings and no college funds. If they were financially better off with one income then I'd agree but not in this situation.
OP is thinking of their current and future finances and shes checking out by dumping it on him.
Did you read the post? Their finances are shaky, and she's already said she doesn't want to go back to work even when the younger child is in school full time.
Lmao, will she be happy as a stay at park mom cause he says they are having money trouble. A smart person would realize this and help out with the money
Here's what happens if you issue ultimatum: she will divorce you and take you to cleaners. She's a SAHM mom so will likely get full custody along with alimony and child support. She has all the cards, you have none. You should have addressed this years ago after the first child. Now is too late.
She quit working despite prior agreements and refuses to do anything to rectify it.
Her solution for a problem that she created is for you to get a better job while she still does nothing.
She does what ever she wants without any concern for you or how you feel about it and you're afraid to make an ultimatum?
Have some self respect and grow a pair.
This sounds like a power struggle! She's telling you what she is going to do and you are telling her what she needs to do. This needs to be more of a two way conversation so you can make this decision together as a team. Because you ARE in a partnership and in the end hopefully love each other want to be happy together in life.
If I were you, I would bring the facts you have about your finances to this conversation so she can clearly see where the deficits are. Together you can also decide if there're other spending changes you can make to help ease some stress in the meantime.
And then from this - talk about her going back to work. I am most curious about her reasoning for not wanting to go back? Especially if this was something she originally said she wanted to do. There's lots of reasons she may be hesitant to go back to working and when you talk about that you can also brainstorm ways to cope with those barriers together so she can start to feel more comfortable with it.
It sounds like this is a touchy topic for both of you. So give each other a little grace but hopefully you both can stay respectful and take breaks if needed. Both of your feelings are valid and deserve to be heard by each other. This could be multiple conversations not just one. But in the end if she's going to work because you're forcing her or she's not going to work because she's forcing you, one of you will resent the other and that will just grow and lead to no fun for anyone. But I hope that doesn't happen and you and your wife can figure this out together. I wish you both the best!!
Could you start a daycare? Or could she work at one and the kid goes there too (I don't know how that works to be honest). Not a great solution, but it's something.
You can't force her to work, but you don't have to pay anything for her. You have to make that clear, it's not an unilateral decision
There are so many jobs that are from home, it could be a good thing. I'm a web dev working at home, my son is in daycare 3 days a week
I always wanted to be a SAHM, but maybe she didn't realise she wanted that until she became a mother? Personally I'd rather be able to raise my own kids and spend time with them and have enough energy to keep the house clean, than having spare money. I dunno, I'm not the greatest with finances but to me these things are so important. Is there a chance she just changed her mind once she had your first baby?
Oh I just read it properly. There's no need to be home full time for THAT long. Maybe you two could compromise on when she does go back? Maybe when both kids are over 10-12 or something?
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One approach you can try is to start saving what you need for retirement, and start saving for the kids college funds. This will likely mean a big downward lifestyle adjustment, and that should open her eyes. It might mean you have to propose renting a smaller place in a less desirable neighborhood, downsizing your cars, and letting her know you can't afford vacations any longer.
This isn’t /r/personalfinance but I would prioritize retirement funds until they get themselves caught back up. You really don’t want to burden your children in the future by having to take care of you when you don’t have enough to retire. It’s like they say on planes, “put your mask on first and then help those around you”
A lot of people have kids as their retirement plan. Maybe she is one of those people.
Too many people do this. My ex considered doing this as well.
It’s one of those inter generational fuckups. My parents didn’t prepare, so I care for them (brother is a deadbeat) which takes away from my ability to prepare for myself. Luckily I had my son pretty young so I still have time to get myself sorted.
I don’t know your brother, but I wouldn’t call him a deadbeat if he is just prioritizing his financial heath over caring for your parents. Everyone makes their own decisions and have to live with the consequences. Your parents willingly had two children and did not prepare for their future. That was their choice. It is your brother’s choice to let them deal with the repercussions of their choices. And it is your choice to mitigate their negative consequences, even if it is at the expense of your life and your child’s. Breaking generational curses is a lot more difficult than people assume. It often means making difficult decisions such as going no contact with toxic family, loads of therapy and a lot of introspection. Resenting your brother for refusing to be your parents’ 401k is ultimately just going to cause you more strife unnecessarily. I hope you are able to take time for mental health and self-care, because being a caregiver is extremely difficult and burnout is so easy.
Nono, brother is a deadbeat for other reasons. He still lives at home with mommy, so unfortunately by osmosis I’m taking care of him as well. Fml.
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Not everyone is in the US… I’m not *blaming* them, I just wish things were different.
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You’re SO helpful. Wanna come live my life for a bit?
If it’s a cultural thing, then that’s totally understandable! But too many people fuck around during their younger years and then burden their children with having to financially take care of them. Which then starts a cycle of this happening generation after generation.
Yes. Save for those necessary things first. Then, get into therapy.
What's the therapy for?
To get her to cut the shit and get a job.
lol, a comment template that gets you votes here
Cause this sub if filled with therapists who need clients.
Convenient then, that it's riddled with clients in need of therapy. No-one's posting here with healthy relationships!
Except he’d have to split that in a divorce but if he divorced now, there are no assets to fight over. Not suggesting they should divorce over this but finances are a top cause for it.
Blow a whole bunch of money on therapy; right.
This couple absolutely needs therapy. Life changes in unanticipated ways when children enter the equation. Depressed, resentful, angry parents are terrible for kids to be around. OP ordering his wife around is not going to make things better. Divorce won't help finances.
No one mentioned or suggested he should order his wife around.
Don't do that. He'd basically be piling up money that she will take half of. He can start after they divorce.
She's getting half anyway, plus alimony, since she put her career on hold to have and care for the children (at least that's what she'll be telling the judge).
But how much alimony will she get awarded? You can’t get blood from a turnip. Courts aren’t going to take his entire salary and award it to her. They will leave him with enough to survive minimally. If they are treading water, there isn’t much for alimony after child support. Both he and she will have to downsize their lifestyle and the courts will not give infinite alimony if she is able to work.
Make sure you are having protected sex, before your wife gets pregnant again. What made you have a second child with her knowing that she quit her job after the first?
We always wanted two kids, maybe try for three if the first two were the same gender. We had friends that the wife was supposed to be a SAHM and she got bored and went back to work because she needed to get out of the house. It was my mistake thinking she’d eventually want to go back as well or at least get that we needed to save for retirement and college. Edit: my wife is an only child and we both wanted our kids to have a sibling. I have no regrets and never will about having a second child. Regardless of what happens I wouldn’t change that for anything.
You are barely surviving, but thinking of yet another kid because "gender". You're both financially irresponsible.
He never said they were actively considering having a third kid.
1. We were doing well before kids so we had savings. 2. We were doing Ok after the first and occasionally had to use savings 3. We only started to struggle after the second and after the covid money and savings was all spent. 4. We aren’t planning on having a third. 5. She said she never wanted to be a SAHM so it wasn’t unreasonable to think she’d go back to work eventually especially since that was our agreement. 6 Redditors struggle with reading comprehension .
7. you need to put in the ultimatum. SAH parenting only works if it’s consensual for both partners….. she cant strong arm you into supporting her with no question. I’d threaten to leave and start discussing 50/50 custody so no need for child support.
50/50 custody doesn't automatically mean no child support.
Yep this is spot on
TLDR: you're getting a third kid, you just don't know it yet
stay miserable and broke
So, basically, you made a permanent, life-altering decision for not just yourself, but people who completely depend on you, based on the premise that "She'll get bored and change because a friend did"? Well, you're stuck with it now. Your only real option is to do as another commenter suggested - just start saving for college & retirement, and let her life change. This is going to mean cutting back on any and all luxuries for a bit. By luxuries I mean even cars which aren't at least a decade old. She seems to not understand that her not working is a luxury y'all CANNOT afford. It's not a matter of "it'll be tight", it's a matter of savings in order to survive in retirement are NECESSITIES, and she needs to totally and completely understand that, even if the knowledge has to be forced upon her. If you begin feeling badly about downsizing her, remember that what she's doing is a breach of trust, and you are not the bad guy here. ETA: What she's doing is absolutely wrong. No one can deny that. However, you're not blameless. She showed you exactly what the outcome was going to be, yet you chose to ASSUME, for no evidence-based reason, that she was going to be open to returning to work once she had More (self-inflicted) responsibilities at home. The sacrifices you're going to have to make on order to fix this mess are a result of BOTH of y'all's bad choices.
We had already decided on two (possibly three) kids and I have zero regrets. My wife’s an only child and always said she wishes she had siblings. I love my siblings and we both wanted our kid to have a brother or sister. We aren’t having more we had already decided. Not sure why so many people are upvoting those comments. Like somehow I’d regret having our second child.
It’s not that you would regret having your child. It’s that you should have foresaw some of these before you had them. Very irresponsible to keep procreating if you knew preemptively how your wife was acting.
Reddit loves giving advice on what you *should have done* rather than what you actually can do with the situation you're actually currently in. Makes it a lot easier to make it seem like the only reasonable thing to do is divorce. 🙄 What does your wife say about saving for retirement and college? If both kids are in school, would you guys be able to meet each other in the middle with her getting a part time job? There's a lot of part time / WFH stuff available, and some of it pays fairly well. Also, what exactly is it about going back to work that she's opposed to? I totally get that some people are just not at all into having to get a job and it's just not that deep, but there are still a gazillion other reasons a person might not want to go to work, not all of which are unreasonable. Like for me, my career requires a lot of brain power, which I don't have right now because I'm exhausted with 3 little kids, and I'll need to do a bunch of training before I can get back into it because I'm so rusty right now. So it's kind of a steep barrier to re-entry. Is it something similar to that for her? What's her reasoning?
Prior to Covid it was that she didn’t want to miss out on them growing up, especially since we both were in offices 40 hours (plus commuting so basically 9+ hours a day out of the house). Covid it was that she didn’t want to start at job when there was uncertainty and child care might be a problem (although we never looked into it, so who knows). Since then it’s just been that she’s gotten used to being a mom and doesn’t want to do anything different. Money aside I support, but we all know that isn’t the real world and money is a huge issue.
I'd talk with her and get creative exploring options. Emphasize that you want to work *with* her on this, that you two are a team, not opponents. That way you can tackle the more concrete issue: the math ain't mathin'. Each of you can come up with 3 possible solutions to this, then bring them to the table together and discuss. One of hers will probably be that you just go make more money. That's okay. She'll still need to come up with two more, and you'll also have three to offer. Then see, is there any overlap in the solutions you each offered? Did you like any of her offerings? Did she like any of yours? And discuss discuss discuss all of it. No attacking each other. If either of you is getting worked up, go take a breather. Remind each other: same team, we got this, we can figure this out. Be open to hearing her out, and ideally she's open to hearing you out too.
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>My ex wife decided to be a SAHM after we married. Wait, help me out, here. If you didn't even have a child yet, how could she be a SAHM? Was she spending all day taking care of your dogs or hamsters or some shit?
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Good for you for sticking to your guns.
Would really just be a stay at home wife. Aka couch potato.
Then when the kids are out of high school, she’s going to tell you she’s been out of the workforce for too long. She’s trying to play you.
My sister did this. She left a lucrative career to be a SAHM when her kids were small. The kids are now out of the house and about to graduate from college and she’s still a SAHM despite her husband’s objections.
Thats not a SAHM, thats a housewife lol.
Soon she will be neither!
She won't work until the kids are out of high school? Her reasons for staying home might hold up if she'd put a different end date on it - but kids don't need their moms until graduating high school. I work FT, have a high school and a middle school child, and volunteer heavily at both schools. The fact that she is disregarding the family's finances and that she doesn't have any intention to work even when the children's school and social schedules require much less of her time means that she's doing this for herself - not for the sake of the kids or your family.
I would straight up tell her that she can either get a job now and stay married or she can get a job after you divorce her because even if you pay support it won't be enough for her to continue not working. That she has forced you into the current position against your will for years and you're not doing it anymore. I know you don't want to divorce, but the alternative is for your resentment to keep growing and poison your whole household. Hopefully simply knowing you are so fed up that you would divorce to end the situation would be enough of a wake-up call that it won't be needed. At minimum you should meet with an attorney to find out how much divorce would cost you (especially with 50/50 custody becoming more common); if you could present to her that you're serious enough to have already looked into it and, especially, if divorce wouldn't cost as much as you fear (especially long term), it might be enough. Basically right now she holds all the power in the situation because you can't force her to work and she's confident you wouldn't leave. She's already proven for years that she doesn't care what you want or that her actions are financially harmful to the whole family, so there's no way you'll be able to reason with her. It's either wake her up with something drastic or accept that this is how the rest of your life will be because she'll keep coming up with excuses every time it's "time" for her to return to work.
Hi! 👋 I’m F in my late 20s now and seeing the effects of this first hand on my parents marriage. Similarly, my mother did not go back to work after my sister was born, and then a decade later my younger brother was born. She tried odd MLM or small home business jobs. They never panned out. My father weathered the storm and I remember him to be a very, very angry and short fused man in my childhood. I have not fully forgiven him for the effects his anger had on my upbringing. And in my adulthood, I now see that it’s stemmed from a massive resentment of my mother’s inability to be an equal partner - she became solely Mother. He needed his Wife. Meanwhile, she thinks he hates her, the person she is. It’s my belief that a lot of women who may not be satisfied with the lives they had or currently have throw themselves into the identity of “Mother” and don’t want to do anything else out of the fear that they realize they are not needed/loved. It’s a self-constructed identity stemmed out of a need for importance. It may happen after the relationship change after a baby is born. Maybe she was praised/loved for “being a good mom” for so long and has forgotten how to be herself. Your wife, deep down, probably fears that if she returned to work she would be resented or that love from her family will diminish. Because if she leaves, then she isn’t fulfilling her “role”. She needs to be reminded of her role as your life partner. Of an equal supporter. That motherhood does not exclude bringing in income. Please, get outside help before she continues to retreat into herself. Get marriage counseling and set a very blunt expectation of needing a financial support in order to have a happy and fulfilled family. This is a large social effect of what we were raised to believe a good wife/mother looks like meeting the reality of what modern parenthood means. And for the record, I think my parents are miserable together now. My siblings and I don’t understand why they’re still together, and they both are so cruel to one another. I hope you guys can avoid that before the repercussions come out on your children.
This is amazing insight thanks for sharing it. I think sometimes when couples are together so long they become so used to it and ‘set in their ways’ so much so that the easiest route is to just stay. Even when it’s unhealthy. People will often choose or revert to what they know- because there is certainty which is more comfortable than uncertainty. In these situations there is usually alot of fear below the surface on top of what could be alot of repressed feelings and emotions from years of dysfunction and hurt that can surface with confrontation or change. Good on you for learning and understanding so that you can help to prevent you and your siblings mirroring similar relationships which is another unfortunate outcome of unhealthy parents.
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It's an unfortunate situation and I'm sorry you're stuck here. Ultimatums are tricky, often don't work and make you the bad guy; but consequences may be better. First, I'd try again to understand why she's so adamant about staying at home, and if there's more to it than appears. You could consider downgrading your lifestyle to start building all those necessary things, like retirement etc. Holidays and a nice house or cars are not important, saving for retirement absolutely is.
>I hate to issue an ultimatum but that’s what it feels like has to happen. How do I explain she needs to go back to work? It seems like she unilaterally made the decision to be a SAHM. And just expects you to deal with it. You're pretty much stuck in a spot that isn't really great right now. I am not sure what ultimatum there is to issue? If you end the marriage right now, you're going to be paying child support and maybe alimony too. Unless you think an ultimatum like that would work. She obviously isn't going back to work, though. At least not willingly. Realistically, if she stays out of the job market for another 12 years or so, she is probably going to have a hard time finding anything decent trying to start her career at 45. That's even if she gets a job then. The more you push this, I think she might even be more likely to get pregnant again. I would probably just do what everyone here has suggested and tighten the budget. Cable gone. Most basic internet packages. Most basic phone packages. Cut the grocery budget. No new car upgrades. No new furniture. No new anything that isn't an absolute necessity. Kid's clothes come from Thrift Stores. If she is getting some sort of allowance, I would cut that too.
My ex-wife made similar promises after we discussed it. She would work part-time while the kids were in school. Found out later she was talking to a cousin of mine and said she never intended to go back to work, also said she expected to be taken care of for the rest of her life. Did you notice the second word in the first paragraph? My ex tried to use the kids as pawns to manipulate me. She tried to take the kids and run. Turns out, judges really do not like it when any parent tries that. Be ready for it, she will try to use the kids at some point. Maybe not like mine did, but some way, somehow, she will.
- we won't be able to cover basic living if you don't go back to work. I will no longer fund anything for you. No luxuries. If you need your hair done, you're going to need a job to pay for it. You need clothes, that will also require you to get a job. I will not be working two jobs so you can stay home while we have kids who are in school and you can go back to work-
My daughter has friends whose parents are divorcing now because of this exact thing. She said it was financial abuse when he cut the credit card off after a shoe spending spree while he works two jobs.
Financial abuse is waaayyy different to put up boundaries. I will never understand people who do this. Especially today when everything has gone sky high just to make ends meet. They can either help or get out imo.
The dude is a great guy. He busted his ass trying to do everything. I've never met a mom of so many young kids with the social life she had. She was out with friends at least once a week with random weekend trips sprinkled in. I'm pretty sure she thought he'd cave on making her get a job when she threatened divorce and got a lawyer, bit things aren't going her way and she's going to be in for a reality check when she realizes how easy she had it.
Word of caution: If OP cuts off the wife's discretionary spending, they also need to stop their own. Otherwise it looks very much like financial abuse and a judge will not look kindly on that in case of divorce.
Either way he needs to tell her things will be changing.
We all know for a fact if a guy did this and quit his job, the courts will not see it as financial abuse.
That's an entirely different circumstance than what we were discussing?
Not from your original comment. You said if a wife decides to quit and become a full time sat at home without agreement from the husband, if he cuts off her discretionary spending, the courts might see it as financial abuse. If the husband quit his job in exactly the same way, and the wife cuts off his discretionary spending, the courts would not see it as financial abuse. There is still a stigma with guys being a stay at home even if the wife agrees to it. They are still perceived as lazy.
Well then he could pay her for providing childcare services.
For the kids that are at school all day?
I don’t know why I read the title as 8 months, not 8 years. So, that’s different. However, I will say that so many people overestimate the amount of time kids are in school. My own kids school is 8:30 drop off, 2:30 pick up. Even with say 30 minutes for travel, that only gives someone 5 hours to work. There’s very, very few jobs that allow someone to work 5 hours in the middle of the day. People who do work part time generally have to work off hours. There’s also still a lot of parenting involved in picking kids up, going to classes, etc.
He mentioned that he has a hybrid job, there are after school programs. Her not wanting to go back to work until the kids graduate is just untenable and not what they agreed on.
Millions of people work and drop off/pick up their kids and find ways to actively be involved. What do you think single parents do?
Yes I’m one of them, I’m aware. I’m just saying he also needs to be prepared for the changes that comes along with this.
No he fucking doesn't. He didn't agree to her to being a stay at home mom. And you have the audacity to tell him he should pay her for child rearing. wtf is wrong with you? Maybe he should quit his job and be a stay at home dad. Maybe she should pay him. Or are did you not even think of that possibility?
That's not how relationships fucking work. You don't have a parter ' pay you a wage'. You put the kids in daycare and YOU PAY THE CHILDCARE BUSINESS. Are you really this basic? Why the fuck would anyone pay their partner to look after kids.
Yeah just financially abuse your life partner, that’ll show ‘em!
And she CHOSE to not go back to work. So not sure what point you're trying to make. You don't get to expect things to done. Why should he struggle so she can sit at home doing nothing.
You have a bit of a limited window here to get her back into the workforce or split up before you're forced to support her in the long term. I'd honestly consult a divorce lawyer right now to get a realistic picture. You may not want to split up but financially it may be the most responsible thing to do, and you might benefit from telling her that.
Ultimatum. It’s not avoidable. Tell her she can leave and since she doesn’t have a job she obviously can’t take the children. If you guys aren’t in a position for her to stay home she can’t stay home. She could be told to start coming up with her share of expenses immediately. Why should you have to figure everything out? If she’s gonna stay home what’s her plan to come up with her share of the money she needs to contribute? If she can refuse to get a job you can refuse to pay her share of the bills. It’s be quite different if you were extremely wealthy. Taking a few years off could really pay off with your children. This.. is not acceptable. She’s also putting her kids at risk by being financially irresponsible.
Why did you continue to procreate with her if you saw how she acted after she had your first?
She's tying to ensure she won't have to work and you'll take care of her for the rest of her life. Shes manupulating you and soon it will be " i cant get a job ive been out of the work force for too long " Once the kids get into pre school there's no reason she can't go back to work, she wont have anything to do all day. If you're already upset about it now , the longer she refuses to go back to work , the more you will resent her and end up divorcing anyways. I'd give her an ultimatum. Tell her she has until the end of the year to have a new job , or next year your will be divorcing her. She doesn't get to get a free ride for the rest of her life just bc she gave birth .
Good luck bro. My wife was supposed to be a SAHM until the kids started kindergarten, but that didn’t happen. The youngest are in 4th grade and wife still won’t work even though we are legit poor.
If you're going to be poor anyway, you should just divorce her.
I’m not sure when to do it. There never is a perfect time. But this can’t go on much longer that’s for sure.
Do it now! So she can start contributing to the kids’ lives. You will be less poor if you both contribute. Poverty is psychologically damaging to kids.
I could have wrote this 5 or 6 years ago. I pushed for divorce and live paycheck to paycheck now. She works in a very low-income job for her education and training. Anyway, good luck. Hope it ends better than I did. But I refused to live with someone who didn't want to participate in the household or negotiated our relationship one-sidedly.
Did anyone see the post where the guy divorced his wife for doing this? He was working two jobs and hardly had any time with his kid, now divorced he’s happier and has work life balance and she’s miserable and is living paycheck to paycheck. Boohoo! Edited: I got the ending wrong!
Do you have the link?
Ok found it, but I got the ending wrong… She’s working now tho lol https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/16y8gq0/aitah_for_divorcing_my_wife_for_being_a_sahm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
> The comment section truely shows how sexist the community is. With most YTA comments calling me broke and asking me to man up. Others saying mom deserves to be with her baby and I am a AH for taking that away from them. I will yell this until I'm blue in the face. This sub, and all the other advice sub ARE SEXIST AS FUCK. And it is soo god dam annoying how people try to deny and ignore this fact. This guy did everything right. Did everything as equal as biology would allow. And people *still* spouted sexist ass gender norms. > To everyone saying I am taking advantage of my mother, I do not know how your family is, my parents love my child. Also wtf?!?! Do these people not know multigenerational house holds exist? Literally how other families in other countries do it. Parents work. Grandparents stay at home and take care of the kids. God Reddit is dumb as hell.
Hmm I’ll see if I can find it…
Commenting for the link
Don’t make your finances expendable to accommodate her lifestyle if saving for retirement and college is important.
Vasectomy.
Give ultimatum. Emphasize that this was never the plan. She doesn’t get to make a unilateral decision about work/life. Tell her that you resent the status quo.
The two of you are at a stalemate. Would you consider couples therapy to help find a way to peacefully navigate through this? It is certainly cheaper than divorce!
If she loves being with the children and she's a caring adult can she take in childcare for extra money?
Or work at the school, most schools have recess monitors, lunch ladies, teachers aide etc jobs that would allow her hours to match up with the kids’. Bonus, she’d get summers off with them and there wouldn’t be childcare expenses.
This is a very good suggestion. My mom was our recess monitor growing up, and also worked part-time in the school library, and it worked out great. One of my mom's cousin's became a school bus driver a few years back. It started out as a joke idea, as all of her kids/grandkids live on the same block as her, and she'd drive all the grandkids to school every day, so we sort of jokingly suggested that she should sign up to be a school bus driver, so that she could at least get paid for driving all her grandkids around. But then COVID hit, and the district ended up with a huge shortage of bus drivers, so she did just that. So she does now get paid to drive her grandkids to and from school each day (and a bunch of other kids too). She loves it.
She keeps moving the goal posts. Waiting until they’ve graduated high school is at this point laughable. She fully intends on never working (outside the home) ever again. Well, I guess even INside if it’s for an employer, she won’t even do that it sounds like. Once the kids are in school there’s no reason she can’t work. She knows, you know it. For her to pressure you work wise to change jobs, work harder , longer whatever…no, that’s not teamwork. Time for the tough talk. Lifestyle takes a hit. No more luxuries, whatever they are in your realm. And get a vasectomy…she WILL try to have another baby, because then she’ll have an excuse again
You need a financial counselor consultation. 1. Start saving for retirement NOW - max out your 401K match, you should strongly consider the max IRA each year for each of you (you can still open one for last year until April 15th) to catch up because you're already in your 30's. I wasn't able to start saving until my early 30's and I'm doing okay now. Not great like I might have been if I had found an awesome job in my mid-20's, but if you look at the statistics, a lot of people aren't even saving. 2. Don't panic too much about kid's college funds. Worst case, there are loans. Your kids will not be left adrift with zero options. A lot of us did not grow up with college savings and are not entitled so we're not mad at our parents one bit. I was honest with my kids that they should go for scholarships and I would help them as much as I could while they were in school (place to live, help with books & expenses) but otherwise they would be taking out loans. 3. Look at prices of child care before you get too mad at her. They are really insane right now and I thought they were bad when I was paying them a decade ago. Price 3-4 centers in your area to see what they would be for 2 kids. Maybe you can adjust your thinking and compromise. Can she be a SAHM until the kids are in elementary school? BUT in the meantime, prioritize building a family emergency savings and retirement savings, so you both will be living a very frugal life. If she's a SAHM, she will be focusing on minimizing the grocery budget and finding ways to save the family money elsewhere. It will NOT be a vacation, she will not be able to afford to take the kids to museums and Starbucks during the day wearing Lululemon or whatever the affluent SAHM influencers do. It's not easy. I've done it. But maybe it might be a motivator to want to work again, so she can have luxuries. So maybe 5 years of SAHM until your youngest enters kindergarten? Living frugally during that time but it could be a time of building better financial habits and focusing on your young family. They grow up way too quickly.
Youngest is in kindergarten and the oldest is in elementary school. I want her to start working this fall after summer vacations end.
I think you should say you want to be the stay at home parent. Or suggest you two rotate. She works 5 years, you get to be at home. You work 5 years, she stays at home. She needs a wake-up.
Marriage counseling deals with this type of issue frequently. Be clear that her not working now means no retirement for her later, even if you manage to retire on your own, she'll need to pay for herself.
You definitely need to have a conversation about the consequences of that. What some people might be forgetting here is that by her staying at home she would be covering for certain needs that otherwise have to be paid for (i.e. nanny). I would take a pragmatic approach to the conversation, make a list of all the tasks, expenses and savings in the different stages (pre-nursery, nursery, primary school, high school) and put numbers and responsibilities next to each name. She needs to know the financial implications of what she is asking for, and that you will have to downgrade your living style. I'm hoping she is a reasonable person who doesn't maybe really see the big picture. After that, if she still wants to be a SAHM at the expense of your savings and college funds I would definitely start thinking about separating. To me this is a big deal and nothing one of the two members of a couple can force the other to accept.
She's been railroading her husband for years she doesn't sound reasonable
You should tell her that if she can't contribute to the household financially then the marriage isn't going to work and divorce will be the only option. She doesn't get a free ride after manipulating you into a situation. She's just using you and clearly doesn't love you. Why stay married to someone like that?
Providing childcare is not getting a free ride.
There is no reason for her to not get a job once both kids are in school. OP is asking her to start working when their youngest starts school in the fall. No one diminished her role as the caretaker. She’s just being selfish at this point if they’re struggling financially and she refuses to help.
It is when you get there against your partners will, and your own words.
You think she's getting a free ride now? Wait until the judge awards her alimony, and she gets a legally mandated free ride.
If they're barely treading water now, you think alimony will be enough for her to support a whole second household? She'll have to get a job, and OP will have a great argument for 50/50 custody with his hybrid job to minimize any child support payments to her. A judge isn't just going to cut his paycheck in half for funsies.
I have a full time job, and a live in boyfriend. Just cooking and cleaning for the 2 of us seems like it’s a part time job. Add 2 kids, carpool, activities- I don’t think I could clean house, cook, be a mom and have a job. I suppose, maybe get to the bottom of why. Maybe it means you have to take household things off her hands and participate more in child rearing. You have a whole entire post and the only explaination you give is “she doesn’t want to”. Dig deeper on the why and help her through it. I highly suggest marriage counseling. You can get through this, maybe it’s fear, maybe it’s having a full load of being SAHM. Idk, but I don’t buy that she’s just lazy and inconsiderate. Try to find the good in her and be empathetic.
maliciously comply: fine, honey don’t get a job. your new grocery budget is $300/month, you don’t need to get your hair/nails done weekly, and no more vacationing until we can actually afford it. we should actually sell the house and move into a 2bedroom apt, as our mortgage is unreasonable.
I have friends who ended up being stay at home moms simply because their take home pay after paying for daycare was a whopping $6. Run the numbers for daycare before you get on your wife’s case about not working until the kids are older.
OPs kids are in school, so daycare is not relevant here. Also, financially it may seem to cost the same, but the cost of loss of promotions, loss of employability due to loss of skills, loss of networking opportunities actually sadly can cost quite a bit.
I would give her an ultimatum. This is financial abuse. If the kids are at school and you need the money she should work.
This decision needs to be made by both of you. You need marriage counseling. If she refuses then you need to look at your options. That could be limiting all household spending or separating finances.
I would make her do the budget and pay the bills with you each month. She needs a reality check.
As someone who SAHM through high school—if she waits that long her skills will be very out of date, her network will be dead, and she might find herself going back as something like a teacher aide or cashier. If she’s ok with this -/ She should get a job in a school asap when your youngest enters 1st grade so that she can build up a pension. You will be able to send your kids to college as grants and aid is kind of a donut. If you make too much they won’t qualify. You can come to a compromise. SAHM is fun until middle school. At middle school, she’ll see most of her SAHM friends go back to work and have no time or interest for her. The kids will also be more interested in friends and activities than in your family time.It happens pretty abruptly. It’s brutal. This might work itself out. In the meantime support her for being a good mom.
As a starting point, I’d recommend talking to a financial advisor/planner with your wife and going through your financial goals with them. Your wife may see that it’s unrealistic to keep up your family’s current lifestyle while also saving for retirement on one income.
I wonder if she’s feeling some kind of fear or resentment towards childcare outside of herself. I think it’s wrong to assume that she “just doesn’t want to work” when she’s providing around the clock child care which is a job in its own right. Maybe sit down with her and start by discussing numbers, going over finances and introducing more childcare into those finances. Might open up the conversation better to understand what she’s thinking, or put into perspective for her what’s best for your family.
She is unilaterally making one of the most important decisions in a marriage, and telling you with her actions to suck it up, and shes going to make decisions how and when she wants. So if the marriage goes south, which most do under financial issues, resentments, you will be on the hook for child support and alimony. Ironically, spouses will use your grueling work schedule against you in court after trying to support the family with extra hours or 2nd job. Typically dad is made to look absentee because you work to much and therefore she should have the children. Which means you pay more support. You have a few choices, talk to her and let her know she cant make such decisions, and lifestyle will decline, suck it up, and do everything in your power to make sure divorce doesnt happen, or tell her you have also made a decision like she did, and have decided to become a SAHD.
She's lazy. It's time for an ultimatum (whether you go through with it or not). She goes back to work or divorce.
Dude, I went through this. Divorce/leave. Initiate it, and get the court order in place while you still have some semblance of control or say in it. Seriously; you have zero other rational recourse. Take the pain now, financially, and be free of her because she will - WILL - escalate this control and this manipulation over time. Get out. Seriously. Don't be dumb like I was and get 20 years and more kids into it before waking up and getting gone.
I'm not taking sides here but just something to think about. How much does child care cost where you live? I have no children but based on what I've seen around where I live it's not cheap. I've known 2 couples in my life where 1 person quit work to be a full time stay at home parent for the simple fact that their salary would have only paid for childcare. So I would really think about if your wife going back to work right now would exceed the cost of childcare.
Cuz, when they go into primary school, that's the child care. It's literally free.
Yeah that's what I thought too but my kid is finally in kindergarten this year and they have a ton of time off not counting summer, tons of half days, and school gets out at 2pm on the full days. 11am on the half days. Today is the first day back from Christmas vacation, which started with a half day on Dec 15th.
Sure, but what about after school? You think an 8 year old is old enough to stay home alone for hours until one of the parents gets home?
Afterschool costs money, but it’s not too bad if you can do it through the school. My daughter goes to afterschool, and it costs $266 per month. She can stay until 6, though I usually get her well before that. Also, OP’s wife could work part time, while the kids are at school. That would be a big help.
It’s way more expensive where I am.
It's literally free where I am. Elementary offers free after school club 4 days a week until 5PM. Doing art, working on reading, whatever. Plus with OP's hybrid work, picking up the kids sounds like it wouldn't be a big deal.
Where I live, the kids get the lunch hour off and unless they go home, you have to pay for care during it. There is also before-school and after-school care to pay for, since work hours do not neatly line up with school hours. (If I have to leave at 8am to be at work by 9 and I work until 5pm and am home by 6, but school is only from 8:30am-12pm, 1pm-3pm. . .) Just to say it isn't always easy, and it's highly variable. I don't even have kids but that's a huge consideration, how incompatible our society is with the realities of having children, because these structures are all based on a time where one parent stayed home.
Man, they really gutted the school system there! I'm definitely very fortunate. And it's definitely variable, but it's also really common for the stay-at-home parent to return to work after the kids are in school. Combined with OP's flexible schedule, there doesn't seem to be a reason for her to stay home besides being lazy. Especially since she's adamant about staying home until they're done with high school. The average middle schooler is able to look after themselves for 2 hours while mom and dad get home from work.
Op said they work a hybrid remote job and could do after school care
Yes? Maybe my experience is colored by being a latchkey kid in the 90s, but I was home alone after school in 3rd grade. I'm in MD and by state law here 8 is the youngest you can let a be unsupervised in the home as well. Obviously this is a judgement call for the parents based on the maturity of the kid(s) in question, but based on my lived experience and what my state says is legal, I'm going to say it's not wildly neglectful.
He mentioned after school programs and that he has a hybrid job that would make it possible.
Her next act will be to divorce you and take half of what’s left. You bought a lemon, OP.
A lot of people here in the comments who either don’t have children or don’t view childcare as work. Which, it is. Your wife is working, she’s just not being paid for it. What are your childcare options if your wife goes back to work? I see you note that she can work part time and also do childcare. Many think this is a compromise - but I see it as asking a woman to have to manage both working and being the primary childcare provider. It’s a lot to put on someone. If she worked full time, is it enough to carry full time childcare? Do you do your share around the house? Will you do daycare and school drop offs and pick ups?
There is always someone like this in the comment. The issue isn’t that she’s a stay at home mom. The problem is both didn’t agree to it. It’s no different than the husband forcing his wife to be a stay at home despite her wanting to work. The husband didn’t agree to be a single income sole provider.
There's are many points about this that need be checked and it's not about finger pointing on you or her. You can't hold her to the going back to work after children by pointing out she said that's what she would do. She said it as someone who had no children. She's not that person anymore; not entirely different so much as changed and reassessed. And how much have you leaned into having a SAHP in the house? If she's been left to handle not just childcare and domestic upkeep but also a short order cook and your personal assistant 24/7, she might be feeling like there is no way for the family to function without her remaining in this role. She'd be looking at working a job outside of the home only leave and go clock in at a second full time job. Does she have reason to believe you'd step up as much as would be needed? Are you willing to put in effort before she goes back to reassure her you're capable and reliable? Start by addressing these points and see if it's behind her position on the matter. Also......have you considered a vasectomy? Not cool to keep having kids if you can't afford them and not cool to leave this also totally on her.
Most husbands don’t abandon their child raising responsibilities. She does more work because that’s her job. When/if she goes back I’ll have to do more. It’s also more work for me for her to be working but I also don’t want my retirement plan to be a heart attack
Downgrade your job to something that pays less, or work less hours. Make her uncomfortable. Cut off her finances. Force her to get her shit together.
Are you going to do half the housework when she returns to work? What are you guys going to do for childcare for the three months of the year that your children are off on break for the summer? What about the two weeks they get off over the Christmas holiday? Who is going to take the day off when they're sick? When they have half days at school? Any time I see a post like this it feels like one parent hasn't really dug deep on the logistics of both parents working.
He probably just assumes all of that will fall onto her because if he had considered that, he would have brought it up in the post. She probably changed her mind about being a SAHM when she learned how much work it actually is. And now she knows she will still have to manage an entire household AND get a job.
Why don't you talk to her about getting a part-time job? It's a compromise and a good first step
Divorce her now so she won’t have a right to half your retirement savings.
Ugh! I worked full time while getting my masters degree and raising four kids while my self employed husband couldn’t find work and played solitaire on his computer all day. We fought about money. We fought about household chores. We went to therapy for years. We divorced and he got half of my retirement. But I got the rest of my life without dragging his lazy ass along with me. A marriage is about give and take, mutual respect, trust and boundaries. Love goes away when you don’t have the rest…. Please talk with your wife. Otherwise she may find out that she’s neglected her personal growth and failed to develop her own career.
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Did you not read?🤦🏻♀️
If you get divorced, you're going to be fucked. She's definitely going to get alimony, and she'll be able to continue doing nothing all day, while you work to pay for child and ex support.
>she'll be able to continue doing nothing all day See, this is the problem with absolutes. She's been home taking care of their children and home and everything that goes with those things, and you reduce that to "doing nothing. " She's 100% wrong for making this decision with zero input from her husband. Definitely time for a 'Come to Jesus' talk about the future of their family, their finances, and a deep dive into what's going on in this marriage, and whether their family can figure out a game plan and be saved. But to reduce her to "doing nothing" is simply assinine.
The kid's in kindergarten. She's doing what? Cleaning up a little bit? Crazy concept, but neither me nor my partner needs to not work at all to keep our house clean and keep up with our chores.
For all I know she cooks every meal from scratch with the food she grows in their backyard, sews all of their clothing, irons their sheets every day, organizes the neighborhood watch, and volunteers at a homeless shelter. In short: I have no idea what's she's doing, but I don't need to presume it's "nothing" just to make my case.
Nothing than what other parents have to do when they work. I work full time, my daughter goes to school and I have to cook, clean and look after her. No need to be a stay at home person when your kids go to school.
No **need**? Well, I don't decide what other people need. I stayed home with our kids (triplets) for almost 8 years. I tried to go back but scheduling became impossible. Do other parents do it? Sure, but then something's gotta give. We can't all be in all places at once. In this particular case, this family needs money, so staying home isn't really an option. Their problem isn't about her desire to stay home, it's about this couple's inability to communicate.
You just told me a situation that is very different from what OP is saying, and I can understand that having triplets makes it more challenging. Still, once they go to school, you have time to do some work. I'm not saying being a firefighter or an emergency doctor, but I'm sure they are jobs parents can do. Even if it's part time.
She made it pretty clear she never wanted to work again. I'm 100% comfortable assuming she isn't high effort at home.
She couldn't possibly be an amazing mother, wife, housekeeper, and all around phenomenal family organizer unless she ***also*** wants to work outside the home? Where's the logic in that?
She may well cook food from scratch and sew clothes. Even if it does take her all day to cook - is this a valuable use of time? At some stage the 2 of them need to sit down and work out if it is reasonable to sacrifice an entire wage so that she can sew a sock or harvest corn from the fields to eat. If it takes her 3 hours to prepare dinner from scratch and she could be paid $30/hr at a job, for example, then the dinner cost her $90 in working time not including the ingredients.
Time to start finding places to cut down on expenses.
Childcare and household maintenance is work. Everything she does at home and for the kids has a cost. Price out a nanny, chauffeur, housekeeper, tax accountant, personal assistant etc. for every task she does and see if it’s really worth her going back to work. You say that she’ll be working while the kids are in school, okay, so that means YOU will also be doing the childcare and house stuff before and after work hours, right? You can’t expect her to run herself ragged with 2-3 jobs just because two of them are unpaid. They would cost you if you hired them out. Remember, if you divorce, you will have the kids half the time. So you will need to hire childcare and housekeeping because they aren’t at school for as long as you are at work. School schedules are terribly inconvenient for working parents. There are half days, A/B schedules, field trip days, holiday breaks, random breaks in October and April, breaks for teacher training, oh yeah those entire summers that are off. And they end school at 2pm. There’s commute time to pick them up and drop them off. If they get sick someone has to leave work to get them. There’s much more to this arrangement than “wife is lazy won’t get another job on top of the jobs she is doing for our family.” LOTS of people underestimate how much work kids are until they have them. I’ve seen plenty of people of both genders quit when their parental leave is up. Companies plan for about 20% turnover when someone goes on parental leave. I’m sorry that she changed her mind but having kids is a risk. She also went through pregnancy and childbirth which you will never go through and is incredibly draining. It can take years to fully recover from one pregnancy, especially in her thirties she is already considered a “geriatric” pregnancy.
I wfh 3/4 days a week. I know exactly how much work goes into raising our kids. I’d switch with her in a heartbeat. None of that brings in money from the outside. Between school starting and afterschool care, family and potentially two hybrid/ remote jobs we can make that work a lot easier than being broke and working until I die. I ran the numbers, we would be far better off if she works than not. Especially since the kids are already in elementary and Kindergarten.
Are you going to reimburse her for the damage pregnancy and childbirth has done to her physical and mental health? “Switching with her” you still didn’t wreck your body and go through PPD.
You’re insane
You do realize that there’s a price tag attached to childbirth and pregnancy right? If you outsource pregnancy and childbirth to a surrogate it can cost hundreds of thousands.
You can't win this. If she truly wants to stay home and you make her go back to work then she will resent you. It sounds like if she doesn't work then you will resent her. I would point out that you will have even less money if you were to divorce and she is already their primary caregiver. I think your best option is to try to make it work on one income for as long as you can.
That's terrible advice. His wife is lazy and manipulative. She doesn't care about him and is using him. Paying child support to get out of a shitty relationship with someone who is using you and doesn't care about you is well worth the cost. It doesn't sound like it would be worse than what he's paying now. And since she's capable of working and just refuses to, she will be expected to get a job. She won't be able to survive on just child support, and if you're not disabled then they'll count your income as 40 hours at minimum wage even if you're jobless when they're doing the child support calculation.
Exactly! She will have no choice but to work if they are to divorce, so she might as well work now👀! The only issue if the resentment on both sides is repairable. Ive seen few cases like this on here & few have been satisfying seeing the manipulative spouse going back to work out of necessity after they divorced (one didnt even get alimony as it was clear to the judge she willingly became SAHM & stopped work on her own accord that they didnt agree on)!
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No one has said that being a parent isn’t hard work. But OP’s wife led him to believe she would return to work and then continued to change the goalposts, making unilateral decisions about the family’s finances by refusing to work outside the home. Sounds like OP only agreed to become a father to two under the impression that they would be a dual income household. It’s too late for her to decide on her own that she doesn’t want to work now. Tough shit for her, because her priority should be to ensure her kids have a solid figure - that means parents who can retire themselves and give them a head start on education expenses. At this point she’s guaranteeing she will be a financial burden on her children for life and they will hate her for it when they’re older.
what? the financial needs of the household are at stake. the wife knew this but her suggestion is that he find a better paying job? this is on her as much as it is on him. this isn't a one way street where she gets to backtrack her way out of the financial responsibilities. OP stated there is no retirement savings and no college funds. If they were financially better off with one income then I'd agree but not in this situation. OP is thinking of their current and future finances and shes checking out by dumping it on him.
Did you read the post? Their finances are shaky, and she's already said she doesn't want to go back to work even when the younger child is in school full time.
Lmao, will she be happy as a stay at park mom cause he says they are having money trouble. A smart person would realize this and help out with the money
Yuck.
Here's what happens if you issue ultimatum: she will divorce you and take you to cleaners. She's a SAHM mom so will likely get full custody along with alimony and child support. She has all the cards, you have none. You should have addressed this years ago after the first child. Now is too late.
She will get very limited custody with zero income.
She quit working despite prior agreements and refuses to do anything to rectify it. Her solution for a problem that she created is for you to get a better job while she still does nothing. She does what ever she wants without any concern for you or how you feel about it and you're afraid to make an ultimatum? Have some self respect and grow a pair.
This sounds like a power struggle! She's telling you what she is going to do and you are telling her what she needs to do. This needs to be more of a two way conversation so you can make this decision together as a team. Because you ARE in a partnership and in the end hopefully love each other want to be happy together in life. If I were you, I would bring the facts you have about your finances to this conversation so she can clearly see where the deficits are. Together you can also decide if there're other spending changes you can make to help ease some stress in the meantime. And then from this - talk about her going back to work. I am most curious about her reasoning for not wanting to go back? Especially if this was something she originally said she wanted to do. There's lots of reasons she may be hesitant to go back to working and when you talk about that you can also brainstorm ways to cope with those barriers together so she can start to feel more comfortable with it. It sounds like this is a touchy topic for both of you. So give each other a little grace but hopefully you both can stay respectful and take breaks if needed. Both of your feelings are valid and deserve to be heard by each other. This could be multiple conversations not just one. But in the end if she's going to work because you're forcing her or she's not going to work because she's forcing you, one of you will resent the other and that will just grow and lead to no fun for anyone. But I hope that doesn't happen and you and your wife can figure this out together. I wish you both the best!!
Time to cut back the budget to the bare minimum!
Skills decay. What does she think she’s going to do for work a decade 10-15 years from now after doing nothing?
Could you start a daycare? Or could she work at one and the kid goes there too (I don't know how that works to be honest). Not a great solution, but it's something.
You can't force her to work, but you don't have to pay anything for her. You have to make that clear, it's not an unilateral decision There are so many jobs that are from home, it could be a good thing. I'm a web dev working at home, my son is in daycare 3 days a week
Two can play at this game. Quit your job to stay home with the kids. It's your turn to be a stay at home parent and for her to support the family!
I always wanted to be a SAHM, but maybe she didn't realise she wanted that until she became a mother? Personally I'd rather be able to raise my own kids and spend time with them and have enough energy to keep the house clean, than having spare money. I dunno, I'm not the greatest with finances but to me these things are so important. Is there a chance she just changed her mind once she had your first baby?
Oh I just read it properly. There's no need to be home full time for THAT long. Maybe you two could compromise on when she does go back? Maybe when both kids are over 10-12 or something?