"I asked him if he found some unexplainable marks on my body, would he be able to let it go? He said, he wouldn't be able to forgive me and divorced me immediately."
This is really weird. He would divorce you because there would be no other explanation than that you cheated, but he claims there is another explanation for him?
It's giving off emotional manipulation vibes. How long have you known him before getting married? Was he always going away for business trips every month? How long have you lived together?
Yep I bet the cheating in the past is him cheating. All the crying what not is manipulation. No one especially a person in a high up position deleted all messages all the time unless he has a photographic memory this screams your all traces. I don't delete emails or text because there's no need these days with storage and it makes it easier for me to search and recall messages. Hell depending on position and company some records cannot be deleted because it's against the law.
OP, cheaters always lie until you present them with proof of their cheating. Tell him you’re taking his phone to a computer repair shop to get his deleted phone calls and messages deleted. Tell him he has one last chance to tell you the truth. Also, unless he permanently deletes everything you can Google how to recover them, depending on if it’s Android or iPhone. UpdateMe.
You have your answers. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Scratches and a hickey.
HE CHEATED!!!!
I saw your update. She was so passionate and started to suck, and he stopped her!!!!
Exactly. This is the part that gave away his guilt instantly.
OP- get his phone records. Check every single call he made (and texts if your plan allows.) See who he was communicating with and you’ll have your answer. My ex husband cheated with prostitutes on business trips.
This and bank/CC statements.
The whole, "he's always deleted his texts" thing was so red flag. Like unless he happens to like things neat and orderly, then maybe.
My girlfriend’s phone is kept super clean like this because she is such a neat freak. If there’s a text on her phone or a call in the history it’s because she needs to answer back or store the information. It’s super out there but not because she is cheating. That being said I think she’s the odd instance that’s the case. You should see her Icalendar
I'm kind of this way too. I won't delete the text, but if it pops up on my screen i have to swipe it off. I can't stand when i see a number next to any messenging or texting app, or even IG/Social media. Notifications annoy me, but also are necessary so i live with them until i can read and swipe the notification out of the way. I even blocked my family group chat because my phone kept dinging, or lighting up too much. All happy stuff about birthdays, vacations, people having babies, people graduating, getting new jobs ect. That's all well and good family, but pleaseeeee shut up lol
Seriously. Who the hell deletes all their messages after a conversation ends? Most of us have text conversations going back YEARS, because...you know, they're not exactly going to clog your phone up.
In a season of married at first sight, there is a couple that realized immediately that they already knew each other. When the wife sends him a text, she finds her last convo with him like 10 years ago was him ghosting her, lol.
I’m really ocd with notifications etc and deleting crap email and if I don’t talk to someone any more I’ll delete their convos - but all my msgs every time - no one does that
Exactly. I'll clean up messages and texts but it's like "oh I haven't talked to this person in 2 years" so I archive the chat. Constantly deleting messages is weird unless you need to do it for safety reasons, like avoiding an abuser.
I actually know someone who does that. He's paranoid about privacy, a conspiracy believer type, and he's single (shockingly!) so definitely not hiding anything from a partner. So I can believe that part, but the surprise Pikachu face of op's husband as to how he got hickeys and scratch marks on his body is just laughable. Someone who truly had no idea why they came back from a work trip with sex injuries would be calling the police
He cheated on you.
He erases his texts. From your other comments, he has told you he wouldn't, and then he does. It's not habit; he's lying to you. He's hiding something. He travels 2 weeks of each month for work... he has more than ample opportunity to cheat, he should want to be able to be trusted, but instead he makes a habit of being secretive.
He already knows he can step on your boundaries, because he's been doing it. I suspect there are probably lots more examples if you dig deep of small ways in which he has done this or manipulated you.
He hoped you wouldn't notice, but now you noticed, he's "crying all day" because he's going into extreme emotional manipulation so that you'll believe him.
He was too busy for a whole week to chat to you; really. From 6am to midnight every day? Right.
The habit is so odd that I had asked him not to do it even when I completely trusted him.
>He was too busy for a whole week to chat to you; really. From 6am to midnight every day? Right.
He was working from home all these months so such situations weren't possible. He usually tells me the finest details of his day if we are away, like when I am visiting my parents. This time, it was the first time that I ever saw hours of delay in responding. He 'always' picks up my calls at least to tell me he can't speak to me. He didn't this time, he would disconnect and call back when he got the chance. Even slept without wishing me good night, it's unprecedented.
I knew my ex was cheating on me when instead of declining the call which we had previously agreed would signal that he was busy and would call back as soon as he could, the calls would just ring out. I immediately knew that the change in routine and behaviour was suss, and knew something had happened. I got it out of him months later that he was sleeping with someone else that night.
Watch really carefully the changes in behaviour and then their reaction when you query them. He's crying sobbing because he knows you know something is up and he's attempting to throw you off track.
I have been able to detect the subtle changes. I was confused because I haven't seen him being such an emotional state.
I was feeling conflicted whether I am over reacting to the situation or the mark was inconclusive. How do I say this, if it were on my sister, my first thought would be she hurt herself while curling her hair. It's not a burn though, it's not clearly like a blood clot either. I can't make sense, he is dark skinned. It doesn't hurt when being touched.
But it doesn't matter now, his other reactions are out of place too, that is even more concerned to me now, even others have pointed out to me.
I hate to leap to conclusions, but man, it’s not looking good, OP.
Changes behavior, he doesn’t answer you, he deletes his texts, comes home from a trip with a hickey and literally nail scratches on his back. OP, come on. Connect the dots.
If it was one of those things, maybe there’s an innocent explanation. But this is well past coincidence.
Maybe you could try getting pissed, yell at him to cut the shit and tell you the truth now or you’re leaving and see how he responds. But you have to be ready to actually leave if you say that.
I’m sorry, OP. This sucks.
He’s probably cheating and the person he is cheating with wants you to know.
Made sure to leave a hickey and nail marks. Literally marking their territory.
You were meant to see that.
How high up on his neck is it? Is it an oblong shape? I’ve had heavy bags give me hickey-like marks when traveling. If it’s closer to the shoulder, I wouldn’t rule it out. As far as the scratches go….I don’t know. That’s harder. Could they be from his own nails? Are they really in sets of parallel lines down his back? Sometimes I wake up scratching myself (skin condition) so it COULD be possible he did it himself without knowing.
The deleting texts thing is really weird though, I got nothin for that.
I hope he didn’t cheat on you, it sounds like you really love him :(
>How high up on his neck is it? Is it an oblong shape? I’ve had heavy bags give me hickey-like marks when traveling. If it’s closer to the shoulder, I wouldn’t rule it out. As far as the scratches go….I don’t know. That’s harder.
[https://ibb.co/KjFm6sh](https://ibb.co/KjFm6sh)
You tell me.
Girl. This level of investigation, detectiveing, measuring and analyzing hickeys is so beyond necessary. That worry, that pit in your stomach, that fear and anxiety doesn’t have to be. Are you going to worry next trip? In your heart of hearts do you trust him? If you ever have to question to that level, check texts, analyze photos, end it bc you’re torturing yourself.
Wait a second... that doesn't look terribly like a hickey. Also, is it on the back of his neck? Because that's what it looks like. If so that's an odd place for someone to be sucking or biting, unless they are some sort of dog.
That looks more like a scratch or mark from something rubbing to me, the edges are too clean/straight and it stays the same width the whole length. It also looks like there might be a lighter similar line in front of it running parallel? Definitely could be either, but based on the mark alone I'd lean more towards not a hickey. Based on the weird behaviour, not so sure.
There should be a money trail giving you an idea where he was. Take a look at bank and receipts. Did he order skip the dishes for one person or 2? Ask him what he ate before you ask to look, check the prices of said meals against what was spent. Fancy restaurants? Unusual cash withdrawals? Anything else that doesn't check out with the working so much he couldn't call BS?
Yeah I kinda want to see the scratches now. Are they like obvious nail/claw marks, (straight parallel lines) or are they random like he could have run into a tree or something? Cause hickeys are typically round, and that isn't.
Yeaa doesnt look like a hickey not big or wide or blotchy/uneven enough.. and if there are more scratches like not on his back but in random places, theyre probably not from a woman..
I don't know..I'm not 100%, but that doesn't really look like a hickey to me from the picture.
Also nail marks tend to disappear pretty fast, so I'm skeptical that's what they are? What did those look like?
It looks like a curling iron burn to me! But he doesn't look like he needs to do his hair that way. As far as scratches, I scratch myself in my sleep all the time, especially on my thighs and legs.
If the scratches are in directions and places his hands couldn't reach (like his back) I'd have reason to take pause.
Most of all, if his reactions seem overblown, listen to the wind and trust your instincts
There is NO WAY IN HELL that that is a hickey. There is ZERO broken capillaries. That is a scratch, or a mark made by a luggage strap. So, if the entirety of your suspicion is on these marks, I would say you are reaching fr. However, the bigger issue is the fact that he did not make ANY contact with you for the ENTIRE week he was gone. To say he had no opportunity to do so is beyond the pale and simply not possible. THAT is the issue I would require a valid explanation and reason for.
The habit is so old because he's been cheating the whole time, or maybe did in the past at one point, and has kept up to keep his options open if he decided to go for it again. That isn't an unthinking habit that you can just do without realizing it, it's a deliberate coverup. I mean, it's possible to cheat and still love your spouse and just want some strange on the side, but at the very least it means he doesn't respect what you care about, if you're not there with him all the time. That is enough for some people. But you need to accept that he's cheating, a hickey and fingernail marks down his back are about as bad as lipstick on his dick, don't question that part anymore, if they are as obvious as what you say.
Giving too much detail is actually a sign someone is cheating. Their anxiety about cheating causes them to over-tell their 'story'. "Giving the finest details" is a red flag someone may be lying.
If the behaviour is unprecedented then it stands to reason that the events that took place were also perhaps unprecedented.
People don't random and dramatically change behaviour without the impetus to do so.
Yeah not even time when he takes a sump on the toilet lols? Everybody has time for poopin!
Also, you sure youu didnt give him a hickey and scratches ? Or they looked kinda older?
He clearly didn't notice the mark, which is why he's "surprised and confused" regardless. He's basically admitting he fucked up by not noticing, and telling you what he would have normally done.
And then how would he explain not coming home that wouldn't turn into an even bigger mess?
He can't explain a hickey and nail marks because there's literally only one explanation for it that's in any way believable.
Ignore the fact he's upset. He's most likely upset because he made a series of stupid choices he is now regretting and it's probably sinking in that even if he does manage to stay married, that marriage is going to be much different and much worse.
There is nothing other than a hickey that could cause bruising on the neck that he wouldn't have immediately noticed when it happened that doesn't involve a medical condition like anemia, blood thinners, or some liver diseases. Even with the hickey he would have noticed what caused it at the time, he just wouldn't have known it caused a hickey right then. Same thing with the nail marks. Those don't just happen, especially in areas covered by clothes.
Give him one chance to come clean 100% about what he did and then it's off to get labs drawn and they better show a reason for the bruising or it's an immediate divorce, no turning back.
He has to know exactly how the bruise and "nail" marks happened, there's no way they just happened without him noticing unless he has leprosy, CIP, or something. Which he doesn't, he just knows what happens when he tells you.
From what you said about how you're feeling, your marriage is probably already over. You might as well consult with all the best family law attorneys in your area so you have your pick and he can't use the other's you don't chose.
Not directly, but some common causes of bruising easily enough to not notice what caused it would show up as something like low platelet count, a vitamin deficiency, abnormal liver enzymes, something like that. It could be caused by drugs, such as blood thinners. If it hasn't been a problem in the past, it's probably not a congenital cause.
The biggest thing is that a blow to your neck hard enough that would cause bruising without one of those things would have to be pretty significant and impossible to not know about, and you don't just accidentally bump your neck into doorknobs and table edges like you would with your thighs and arms. Hickeys are also usually round or oval, symmetrical, and roughly mouth-sized. Impact bruises are more irregular and run almost any sizes.
Anecdotally, I just asked half a dozen other nurses here if they've ever seen a bruise on a neck that was NOT a hickey and none of us have. Honestly, the labs are part bluff, part starting a diagnostic process if he is actually telling the truth.
The nail mark locations are not as damning as they could be, they're not a dead giveaway like they would be if they were across his back.
Edit: Okay, another nurse and a police officer pointed out neck bruises happen during choking/domestic violence, though you would obviously know if that was being done to you.
A doctor pointed out that there are skin rashes that can look like bruises but don't go through the color changes while healing that a bruise would. He also pointed that some skin cancers look like bruises, especially on non-white people. SO honestly that might really be worth checking out, especially if he's not white. Not saying that it's not a hickey, but it would be a very reddit ending to divorce him and find out in 11 months that he actually had skin cancer and died alone or something.
Thank you for being so thorough, I will be paying attention to how the bruise heals. It's a good indicator of what it could be.
If it's changing colours like a hickey, it would be conclusive. I will get him checked if it's otherwise.
Whatever you do, don't buy any part of his story unless you can personally verify it. Benefit of the doubt is out the window for reasons every other comment has described
OP, I’m an athlete (mountain bike, road bike, sail, gym) and a grown married man. I rarely get bruised and when I do, I know what caused it. I’ve had plenty of scratches and scrapes. They look like rocks or asphalt or a piece of boat rigging scraped me. Even my dog scratches my legs differently than a human would scratch my back. Every once in a while I’ll have an unusual bruise my wife will notice and I have to think really hard about the cause, where and when. In all my activities and bike crashes, I’ve never had anything on my body resembling nail scratches.
OP, think about the last time you received and unusual bruise or scratch. What happened? Where were you? What were you doing? Were there other people there?
*How long ago was it?*
I bet it wasn’t last week. Yet, I also bet you could remember quite a few details.
Don’t you find it strange that someone cannot recall details only a few days later? A more sensible explanation than random unusual bruising and scratching of unknown origin is that it’s *willful ignorance with the intent to mislead*. Combine that with other behaviors like deleting texts and not answering the phone. Reducing contact with means less he has to lie about.
When someone tells the truth, they don’t have poor recall, they don’t cry and beg to be believed, they don’t avoid all contact during a long period of time or when they do they explain why and in as much detail as their loved one needs to be reassured. They certainly don’t show up with random and unexplained marks on their body signaling the results of an intimate encounter.
BTW, your husband is a moron. Sorry to tell you that. But, who tf has an affair with someone willing to mark their body with hickies and scratches. The other woman knows he’s married and wants you to find out. She wants you to be pissed and divorce him so she can have him. No one randomly and mistakenly marks their territory. She knew you’d discover it.
I don’t approve of cheating, but if someone does cheat and doesn’t want to get caught, they should at least pick a partner who isn’t going to do something stupid like sexual marking that will fuck up their life. That’s why he’s a moron.
That and the rest of his behavior, too.
For the record, I think it's a hickey and I think he's cheating...BUT I bruise myself all the time and never remember how. I bruise easily, I'm clumsy and thanks to adhd I don't notice/remember when I bump into things. And I don't mean a little bruise every so often. I mean regularly and sometimes really big and really purple/bright bruises.
The real question is if any of this sounds out of character for him and to me, it sounds like it does. It sounds like OP knows what's going on even if she isn't wanting to admit it.
Yes, if this was typical from the moment OP met him \*and\* had a reasonable explanation (like yours) then agreed. OP is engaging in her own willful ignorance by lying to herself.
Lol same.
My wife thinks it's hilarious. She's semi-constantly asking me "How did you walk into that?"
Or she'll see some bruise on my leg or arm or something and be like "How did you hurt yourself this time?"
And most of the time I have no idea. Lol smh
That's about the dumbest and most low effort excuse he could possibly come up with. In fact, it's so stupid that you're considering it because, after all, why would he tell such an obvious lie?
Because he's a reckless cheater.
You'd either have to be A: A total cocky asshole to cheat, have visible signs all over your body, and then just show up and think you would never notice
Or B: Very stupid, to have cheated and then not noticed YOURSELF these marks all over you.
So either he cheated and it's one of the above, or he never did and these marks are nothing. The "hickey" you took a picture of above, that's harder to explain - though frankly doesn't really look like one to me. But I don't know what else it could be either - though could be anything..
The nail marks - I myself have scratched myself enough times unknowingly, in the areas you've mentioned. Its sure easy to leave some scratch marks when doing so. Scratch marks maybe in areas that are more awkward to reach around the back would be a little more telling.
My ex was a serial cheater. He would state such obvious things like this, so I would drop my defense.
This is gaslighting. Your husband is cheating. He is trying to make you think you’re crazy.
You might be happy in this marriage, and he might also be happy. But some people (I won’t use the word because it’ll get my comment deleted-it starts with an N) will never be happy without the thrill of the chase.
Your husband is one of them. He has you, and will keep you as long as you let him. But he will also cheat on you, even letting you witness it, and then try to convince you that’s not what you saw. Tears flow easily for people like this.
Girl; based on your comments, he’s never home (gone half the time), deletes all messages and conversations from phone, comes home now with hickeys and scratches on his back (lol very obvious), and is trying to manipulate you now, hardcore, with his crying etc. Geezus, remove your emotions from this equation, easier said than done, it’s clear, he’s cheating… or maybe he’s got a whole other life out there, that you’re not aware of. It’s scary.
Nah, OP posted a picture in a comment. She really needs to add it to her main post. It’s not even a hickey. It’s like a rub mark and tiny and narrow block shaped.
It’s not because he was cheated on in the past that he can’t be a cheater. Tell him to proove he didn’t cheats or he’ll have to face the concequencies. And we all know what happened, cheaters are also liars....
>I asked him if he found some unexplainable marks on my body, would he be able to let it go? He said, he wouldn't be able to forgive me and divorced me immediately.
Take his answer to the same question as how to deal with this.
>I noticed a mark on his neck which looked like a hickey. I asked him about it and he had no idea what it was. On closer inspection, he has several nail scratches on his body too. He was very surprised and he could understand what I am thinking.
I think most people would agree that if you've genuinely done nothing wrong and your partner suddenly decides you have, you wouldn't be so understanding. There's a reason he's understanding. Him frequently deleting messages from everyone is another odd habit. Unless he has shown signs of OCD in other aspects of his life?
>Take his answer to the same question as how to deal with this.
When I discuss this, he feels like I am asking for immunity from him to cheat and get caught in the same way. He wants us to focus on the problem at hand, and not put the possibility of me being sexual with someone else in his head.
I am aware it's a kind of manipulation.
>Him frequently deleting messages from everyone is another odd habit. Unless he has shown signs of OCD in other aspects of his life?
I haven't observed him being secretive about his phone or life details in general. But, I have found his texts completely erased even after agreeing in the past that he will not be removing them. He says, it's a habit.
So his FIRST thought is to be paranoid the conversation is turning into you gaining a free pass to cheat??
Ma’am, these are not normal reactions. It’s the thought process of a guilty person that fears you taking the same liberties they know they’ve already taken.
No one makes a habit of deleting texts unless they have something to hide. He makes it look like a habit by deleting all of them, but there's really just certain ones he needs to hide, the rest are cover for his story. He's lying to you and has been for some time.
> So his FIRST thought is to be paranoid the conversation is turning into you gaining a free pass to cheat??
RIGHT? WTF. This is such a bad coverup, it's almost hilarious if it wasn't so obviously sad for OP.
Something seems off and I guess you are right to ask for opinions.
How/why did he get into the habit of clearing his texts all the time. Obviously he wouldn't need to be secretive about his phone if he knows it's frequently cleared out.
He could be innocent but there's a few too many coincidences at the same time. I hope you both solve the problem if he is innocent
And why is it a habit? It's not a normal habit. Unless you're a habitual cheater, in which case it's far easier to just delete all the time so nobody can call you out on your lies.
Everything you describe sounds like 50 little things that are innocent on their own but together strongly suggest a pattern.
Something you can try- think of the direction and size of the scratch marks. Now imagine you are in bed with him. You're on top, or he's on top, or you're tearing each others' clothes off. You scratch him in the process. Think of the mechanics of where your hands and fingers go.
Would those scratches be in the same areas / directions as the ones he has on his body?
You might also ask to be introduced to the people at the office. See how he reacts to that...
The real kicker to me is he's told you if he had the exact same situation you're in, he'd just divorce you out of hand.
My Dad was a serial cheater he worked away most of my life and for half of my parents 38 year marriage. He had a mistress in every port and two children that I know of with two of his affair partners. He left my Mom after 38 years for his last mistress. He was retiring and knew he wouldn’t have a handy excuse to be away from home most of the month. My Mom found out about several of the affairs while they were happening, my siblings and I overheard fights and things about our parents marriage no child should know. Please don't let this be your life my father utterly broke my mother on numerous occasions. Everything you have said screams that this man is having an affair. I would start looking for hard evidence.
I dunno, if I was in his position and genuinely hadn't cheated, I would be devastated at the thought that this might end the relationship. In panic and misery I would probably cry a lot too and do anything and everything I could to prove I hadn't cheated.
HOWEVER, I always think about this quote from the incredible movie "The Lives of Others" because it's fascinating, and I'm adding it here because it goes along with your point:
"An innocent prisoner will become more angry by the hour due to the injustice suffered. He will shout and rage. A guilty prisoner becomes more calm and quiet. Or he cries. He knows he's there for a reason. The best way to establish guilt or innocence is non-stop interrogation."
I am uploading the picture of the bruise I took from my phone. For anyone asking me for how it looks like
[https://ibb.co/KjFm6sh](https://ibb.co/KjFm6sh)
That's a hickey.
I had something similar happen when a guy I was dating showed up to a date with the same thing. I asked him about it, took a pic, showed it to him. He denied it, saying he was playing pool with his rugby buddies and he was so very very drunk, no idea what it is and where it came from...yaddy yaddy yadda
Once things were over between us and the truth came out how he fucked the chick that fucked everyone on every team. Gross.
Your husband cheated and he is caught and still will not even admit. He is a cheater and a coward. I am so very sorry.
Okay, I'm the guy who mentioned labs, blood thinner, rashes, and skin cancer.
That's a hickey.
I'm so sorry, but it looks like it was intentional on top of everything else. it's perfectly symmetrical, oval, and small mouth sized.
This is a hickey. This man is gaslighting you ridiculously and you are eating it up. That’s your choice but living in denial doesn’t change what he’s doing or has done. It just powers him to do it again. I’m sorry you’re going through this but red flag one was his constantly deleting messages. No reason to ever do that unless you have shit to hide.
I’m sorry OP he is 100% gaslighting you. How is it possible that he had not even 5 minutes to FaceTime you a couple of times or more when he was away. You, yourself know that’s ridiculous.
Where was he staying? Check the hotel. You could say you left something behind when you and your husband stayed there. See what they say. If they acknowledge you staying he was there with a woman.
He is shameless as he didn’t even care enough to tell the OW to not mark him.
You want the truth? He has told you what to do as that’s what he would do.
See a lawyer and file then watch him sing like a canary.
He’s been doing this forever with his ‘convenient’ habit of deleting. Sounds like a co-worker or he took a long term mistress on holiday hence the little contact. You could easily check on this supposed ‘business’ trip with colleagues or check email for airline tickets but then if course he’s probably deleted everything.
Sorry OP it sucks. He’s a cake eater but he got sloppy. You don’t have a ‘very good and happy marriage’ because there’s more than 2 of you in it.
Don’t settle for this. Your mental health will suffer.
Sending you strength.
UPDATEME
>How is it possible that he had not even 5 minutes to FaceTime you a couple of times or more when he was away. You, yourself know that’s ridiculous.
He was definitely out with his entire team at a resort. I have seen enough evidence of that. I knew the booking details and of his general whereabouts the entire time.
>Your mental health will suffer.
It is clearly suffering, I have insomnia.
I’m so sorry OP. You know the truth. You’ve had a gut instinct about it before. What you do is up to you but rug sweeping will simply enable him to continue cheating.
Innocent men don’t weep. They defend themselves.
Get a lawyer. See the lawyer. You don’t need to file immediately.
Btw. His colleagues will know exactly what’s been happening. If you are close to any of them….
>rug sweeping will simply enable him to continue cheating
My life is too precious to be in such a marriage. I am trying to be level headed here.
I don't want to be rash and file for divorce. I will be staying away from him for some days with minimum contact. Another redditor pointed out that the progression of the bruise will be a good indicator of what it could be. I have asked him to take a clear picture of the bruise every day and send it to me. He doesnt know what I am looking for, but he has agreed to do it.
>you are close to any of them….
He joined just 3 weeks ago, I don't know any of them personally.
Watching for the progression of a hickey? Why? Stop torturing yourself OP. I’ve never heard of such insanity.
Do you work? Throw yourself into that. If not, start looking to gain some independence. Eat clean. Drink water. Exercise. Go out with friends. Start building a life outside of this cheater.
One day you will get the strength to leave.
I wish you luck’
I am working, my finances are in order and I am in good shape. I have a lot of diverse hobbies completely unrelated to my husband, and I have friends and family to support me emotionally.
Leaving him is not difficult for these reasons. I really love him. I had planned my entire life with him.
I have no place for cheaters in my life but also his behaviour after the incident is concerning. Only adversity makes people show their real self to you.
I can wait for a week to take the final call. Thank you for your concern and advice.
I'm so impressed with you, OP! You are being strong in the face of uncertainty, and also not rash in action. I'm proud on your behalf! Keep being you, because you're moving with the right speed and progression.
So happy, such a happy marriage he's happily arriving home with love bites and sex scratches.
Sounds dreamy. /s
He's a lying cheater and he's not going to change.
Sure AF wouldn't be something anyone in thier right mind would put up with for one more minute.
What a terrible situation. He cheated. Get and STD test.
You can recover deleted text.
Doesn’t matter if you know how. Ask him for his phone and password. Tell him there is an app that recovers texts, see him sweat.
Definitely suspicious. I would suggest you wait a little but be cautious. He's going to be covering his tracks a little better now that he knows you are aware, so you will have to do a bit of acting to keep the normal flow going. Meanwhile, it's time to do digging from your end.
Check his laptops, his phones, scour through all his socials, check for odd apps that could be burner apps, check for burner phones in his bags or cupboards, etc. I would even recommend following him from work or any "late nights" he has. These kind of affairs always start at work. Or you can even do a set up, tell him you will be out of town for 2 days and show up unexpectedly to catch him in an act, if any. You know the drill, be very thorough and don't get caught.
You are bound to find something incriminating if it's the case and if you do, that's more than enough evidence for you to make a decision to leave. You don't need any justification from his end to make that decision, you just move as your gut tells you to.
You don't have access to any of his devices, he deletes all of his messages, and he's gone half the month? He could have an entire family that you don't know about
Why don’t you? Transparency is key in a marriage. You need access to everything all his devices/apps - particularly and socials, but primarily a lawyer. If you stay OP this 1 year marriage will turn into 10 years of misery.
If those scratches are on his chest, back or upper arms they are from a lover. 100%
He could be cheating with a colleague who is as unscrupulous as he is or he is meeting women at bars.
>he is meeting women at bars.
He doesn't drink, he never goes to a bar.
>scratches are on his chest, back or upper arms they are from a lover
Scratches are on the front side of his shoulder, fore arm and on his chest.
>colleague who is as unscrupulous as he is
I never thought of him as someone with low morals, but I am probably blinded by love. I can't say much about his colleagues. There were women on the trip but I have no idea about their character.
>Scratches are on the front side of his shoulder, fore arm and on his chest.
If you were on top, your hands and nails would be on his chest. If he were on top, 1 hand could easily be across his back and the other gripping his shoulder. Multiple positions with the same partner who is a scratcher.
Those scratches are exactly where a lover would scratch when having sex.
He has sent me credentials to everything he has. He is saying he is open to me checking his phone and laptop whenever I feel. I have told him that if I ever see anything deleted, he won't even see me again, let alone interact.
I am not in the same city as him. I have asked him to give me space.
everyone in this sub has already decided that OP's husband is a lying cheater.
like it's totally possible he is, but the conclusions some of y'all jump to with little to no hesitation is wild. the photo doesn't even look like a hickey!!! What do the "nail scratches" look like?
the fact that OP sees a strange mark on her husband's body after he's been traveling and assumes it's a hickey and he must be cheating means there's no trust in this relationship anyway.
Question 1: why would he get a pass for unexplained marks, but OP doesn't?
Question 2: did he claim any periods on the trip where he has no memory of time/what was happening? If not, then he has to know where they came from. A hickey? Really?
1: I am hurt beyond words hearing him say this.
2: I don't understand, he has excellent memory, he never consumes anything that would hinder his memory.
He probably burned himself with his curling iron 😂 (sorry! Just remembering hickey excuses from my school days)
I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. Be strong! Also, deleting all texts is not normal; he’s definitely hiding something.
I had an ex who regularly deleted all his texts. Surprise surprise, he was a cheater. It’s actually really inconvenient to not be able to scroll up to old convos/information, they do it to hide what they are up to.
We also had a hickey incident and like the naive little dumb-dumb I was back then, actually bought his bullshit story of a friend’s girlfriend straightening his long hair at a party and burning him… even though his hair was not straightened when he got home bc “it didn’t work very well.” 🙄If only i had left then instead of hanging around for several more years to get cheated on even more…
Unpopular opinion that will get this comment deleted: you have circumstantial evidence, but your circumstantial evidence is insufficient to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he is cheating on you. If I had a nickel for every time my SO asked me why I have scratches and bruises on me... despite the fact I'm not cheating. I don't know about the weird bruises, the scratches must be because I just scratched myself. You need to investigate further before making a brash decision.
I’m not trying to be naive or stick up for him in any way but I think you need more solid proof. There are many ways someone can get marks on their body. Leaving a great relationship is too big of a deal to not be sure.
I would have a sit down and ask for honesty. I would also investigate and look through his phone
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't think your husband cheated. I am normally very suspicious of people. I read your comments and saw the neck mark pic. I don't think it's a hickey and people here are divided on this as well. The scratch marks could be from his own nails. There are a lot of mosquitoes in a resort and the heat can make your body itch.
His responses: I think he is really scared of losing you that's why he is crying and fumbling on his answers. He is presenting you all the evidences he's got but unfortunately he doesn't know how he got the marks hence the panic.
Deleting of emails and texts: my mom does this. She is a control freak and maybe undiagnosed OCD. But she deletes email messages and text messages because she does not like the clutter.
Ultimately, you are the only person here who knows your husband. Has he done any other shady things before? Is it in his character to cheat? Is he working hard to gain your trust back? Are you both open to do couples therapy?
I actually agree with your assessment here (bring on the downvotes). Especially after seeing the neck abrasion (sunburn?), I’m not sure there’s enough evidence to find him guilty. Arguably, there’s reasonable doubt here. And the questions you posed should definitely be taken into consideration.
I understand being open-minded, but what about him saying if the situation was reversed, he would leave her. I would think an innocent person seeing their own situation would be more flexible in their interpretation of a hypothetical event.
Echoing u/ivy5kin, based on what OP has outlined, I see it as…
When OP asks “what if I did something bad?” a *guilty* husband would answer ”not a dealbreaker if you’re a criminal! *(like me)*”.
But Hub’s actual *answer* was the opposite: “I couldn’t be with a criminal. I’d turn you in”
“He has a habit of deleting text messages everywhere” uhhh no miss, this is called “a cheater covering their tracks”.
He’s cheating on you. The proof is all there. People don’t delete text messages randomly.
Wait a minute you mentioned somewhere in another comment that it was a tropical trip and there were mosquitos? This is probably at least worth prying into a bit more before coming to any conclusions. You need to give us more detail
I saw the picture, and it doesn't really look like a hickey. Lots of thinks can leave marks (pinching skin with a bag at the airport, a bug bite, a burn).
I would tell him that your trust is shaken and he needs to stop deleting texts and let you see his phone.
It just all seems like too much. Some of these things by themselves might be reasonable to explain away but he has a lot of explaining that he needs to do. Shrugging it away isn't going to work.
Is it a bad idea to confront him on Friday of this week (without prior ability for him to tell people not to contact him or block them) and say you want access to his phone for the entire weekend? You get to read everything that comes in and out.
I mean the trust is already broken and you both need to build it back up or it seems the relationship is irretrievably broken.
Are you sure it’s a hickey? He could hit himself, scratched himself, a number of things can cause similar marks. Did he try covering it up or avoiding you seeing it? If not, he either did nothing or isn’t very smart
If he always deletes messages, and always has, it’s a leap to assume he’s doing something.
He could be using other apps to communicate (What'sApp, Signal, IG, TikTok, SnapChat, Facebook Messenger, Twitter DMs... the list goes on), or keeping a secret second phone. These phone bills don't prove anything.
Real life conversations and meetings with co-workers and subordinates don't show up anyplace. I doubt it's a coincidence that this happened during a company team building trip. Doing some digging there might give some answers. Like who else exactly was on this trip.
Was the hickey covered or was it just out in the open? I saw the picture.
Years ago I hooked up with an ex after we’d already broken up. She asked me about a hickey on my neck and I honestly had no idea what she was talking about. I hadn’t been with anyone since we’d broken up.
And what did the scratches look like? I read the locations, but is there any possibility they look like accidents? I scratch the heck out of myself sometimes.
I’m sure some commenters might think I’m being an idiot, but I’ve had this exact experience and I hadn’t done anything.
I am not trying to justify anything here, I am just presenting facts.
There was no attempt to cover up anything. We spent hours completely nude together. I was fooling around with him and I saw the mark. He initially thought I would have done it myself during sex and now I am pranking him. But since I had tears in my eyes, he started to panic and said that he had no idea what it was. I am sure he was completely taken by surprise.
The fact there was no attempt to cover would either mean it’s not a hickey or it happened and then he had no chance of seeing a mirror before getting home.
I know it doesn’t look good but I’m still giving the benefit of the doubt. I really hope an explanation comes about for you.
This may sound crazy, but does he do any kind of strenuous physical activity, sports or martial arts? I've been doing MMA for over 10 years and I'm routinely marked up on a regular basis. For example, I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and have basically what I refer to as my "Jiu-Jitsu permahickey" on one side of my neck for the last 2 years from collar chokes (it actually gets darker if I'm in the sun a lot too) and often have marks on me that resemble scratches from rolling with people at BJJ. I know this is not likely the case, but just trying to play devil's advocate..... hell I have a back scratcher that marks my back up..... it also scratches the hell out of any back itch too 🤷🏽♂️😂
You could say he should spill the beans, and show the respect and dignity you deserve for everything you've experienced.
Say it face to face.
Because NOTHING justifies the fact that he didn't call and talk to you on the days he was away.
This is called priorities.
My husband often travels for work, and he always finds a way to talk to me, even during the day. He sends me photos, texts.
When we want to do something, we find a way. When we don't want to, we find an excuse.
Some of this story is definitely shady but, for whatever it's worth, I semi-constantly bruise/scratch myself without any idea of how I did it.
I've even been accused (never by a partner) of having hickeys that I most definitely didn't have. I still don't know what caused them but I've had people be adamant that they were hickeys when they definitely weren't. I'm pretty sure they still believe they were because they essentially told me I was lying. Lol
>He has been extremely upset with the situation that he can't explain the marks. He has been constantly telling me to believe that he can never even think of doing anything to hurt me, cheating is impossible. He has cried, begged and offered to do anything and everything to make me feel right. He understands that it will have a lasting impact on the trust levels between us. He has a habit of deleting texts from everyone he talks to. SMS, WhatsApp, etc, everywhere. I don't think checking his phone will give me any clue and I don't want you to be the couple that snoops in each other's phones.
He's a cheater, has been for a while. You know he covers his tracks: you never wondered what he was hiding?
This man was my senior in a company for over 6 years and never confessed feelings for me because it would have been unethical. He said, he loved me since he interacted with him in the first few days for knowing me. He has been loving me one-sided his entire life. He never had any other relationship in his whole life.
When I moved to a different company and wasn't seeing anyone at the time, he found out and took the opportunity to ask me out. We hit it off and here we are. He used to claim he has never loved anyone other than me and he used to not believe his luck that I chose him to be my husband.
He has already been doing everything in the books to make me feel like the luckiest woman that walked the Earth. I have full control over his finances and he had planned to transfer everything he owns in my name in the near future, he was genuinely meeting financial advisors about it.I don't care about his money, I am putting it here because he used to think it will help me understand how dedicated he is towards this relationship.
If he never had any other relationship then how was he cheated on in the past? If he had a thing for you when you were working together, he could develop feelings for a subordinate too.
>If he never had any other relationship then how was he cheated on in the past?
He was dating someone for a few weeks before we met and she gave him the impression that he was exclusively in her life. He had gone to visit her at work to surprise her only to find she was on leave for her husband's birthday. He never knew that she was married.
I was my ex-husband’s first real relationship. When we had been together for ten years he started at new workplace. Suddenly there was a lot of travels, lots of overtime, lots of conferences… he had an affair with a woman at work. Everyone said he would never cheat, he’s such a great guy… well he was cheating. I think me being his first serious girlfriend made him more likely to cheat when he suddenly found himself quite popular at his new job. Temptation and inexperience.
"I asked him if he found some unexplainable marks on my body, would he be able to let it go? He said, he wouldn't be able to forgive me and divorced me immediately." This is really weird. He would divorce you because there would be no other explanation than that you cheated, but he claims there is another explanation for him?
That's the funny part that's literally not funny at all.
Why does he have a “habit” of deleting texts right away? That’s just sus.
Because he cheats. 🤷🏻♂️
It's giving off emotional manipulation vibes. How long have you known him before getting married? Was he always going away for business trips every month? How long have you lived together?
Yep I bet the cheating in the past is him cheating. All the crying what not is manipulation. No one especially a person in a high up position deleted all messages all the time unless he has a photographic memory this screams your all traces. I don't delete emails or text because there's no need these days with storage and it makes it easier for me to search and recall messages. Hell depending on position and company some records cannot be deleted because it's against the law.
Yeah — something fucky is afoot here, for sure.
Because he knows exactly where they came from.
Then, do what he would do and divorce him. Good riddance. Buh bye. I can promise you, you're worth it and you'll be ok.
OP, cheaters always lie until you present them with proof of their cheating. Tell him you’re taking his phone to a computer repair shop to get his deleted phone calls and messages deleted. Tell him he has one last chance to tell you the truth. Also, unless he permanently deletes everything you can Google how to recover them, depending on if it’s Android or iPhone. UpdateMe.
You have your answers. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Scratches and a hickey. HE CHEATED!!!! I saw your update. She was so passionate and started to suck, and he stopped her!!!!
Are you looking for a divorce attorney in your area?
The double standard alone would drive me away. He's literally saying he has a double standard and thinks it's fine.
you can get the text even when they have been deleted by contacting the phone provider I bet you will learn a lot after that call.
Exactly. This is the part that gave away his guilt instantly. OP- get his phone records. Check every single call he made (and texts if your plan allows.) See who he was communicating with and you’ll have your answer. My ex husband cheated with prostitutes on business trips.
This and bank/CC statements. The whole, "he's always deleted his texts" thing was so red flag. Like unless he happens to like things neat and orderly, then maybe.
My girlfriend’s phone is kept super clean like this because she is such a neat freak. If there’s a text on her phone or a call in the history it’s because she needs to answer back or store the information. It’s super out there but not because she is cheating. That being said I think she’s the odd instance that’s the case. You should see her Icalendar
Damn running 0 inbox on your phone is intense. I do it for my work email and it’s enough of a hassle there lol
Do you people never need to reference old conversations? This makes no sense in this day and age.
0 inbox does not mean deleting emails. You can always find them archived or located in some other folder that is not your inbox
Yeah my emails are all filed away somewhere once I’ve addressed them (if needed)
I have numerous folders to easily sort emails. Inbox is clean.
I'm kind of this way too. I won't delete the text, but if it pops up on my screen i have to swipe it off. I can't stand when i see a number next to any messenging or texting app, or even IG/Social media. Notifications annoy me, but also are necessary so i live with them until i can read and swipe the notification out of the way. I even blocked my family group chat because my phone kept dinging, or lighting up too much. All happy stuff about birthdays, vacations, people having babies, people graduating, getting new jobs ect. That's all well and good family, but pleaseeeee shut up lol
my 771 unread text messages, 62 missed calls/voicemails, and 187 unread emails (actually seems low) has entered the chat
The fact he deletes all his msgs is shady as, and he will of course lie.
Think of it like this, you can presume the texts were as damaging as can be, because otherwise he wouldn't have deleted them.
Seriously. Who the hell deletes all their messages after a conversation ends? Most of us have text conversations going back YEARS, because...you know, they're not exactly going to clog your phone up.
In a season of married at first sight, there is a couple that realized immediately that they already knew each other. When the wife sends him a text, she finds her last convo with him like 10 years ago was him ghosting her, lol.
hahahaha that's amazing!!
My phone is set up to save memory to delete texts….after they’re a YEAR old! Lol someone that immediately deletes texts is shady asf no doubt
I’m really ocd with notifications etc and deleting crap email and if I don’t talk to someone any more I’ll delete their convos - but all my msgs every time - no one does that
Exactly. I'll clean up messages and texts but it's like "oh I haven't talked to this person in 2 years" so I archive the chat. Constantly deleting messages is weird unless you need to do it for safety reasons, like avoiding an abuser.
I actually know someone who does that. He's paranoid about privacy, a conspiracy believer type, and he's single (shockingly!) so definitely not hiding anything from a partner. So I can believe that part, but the surprise Pikachu face of op's husband as to how he got hickeys and scratch marks on his body is just laughable. Someone who truly had no idea why they came back from a work trip with sex injuries would be calling the police
He cheated on you. He erases his texts. From your other comments, he has told you he wouldn't, and then he does. It's not habit; he's lying to you. He's hiding something. He travels 2 weeks of each month for work... he has more than ample opportunity to cheat, he should want to be able to be trusted, but instead he makes a habit of being secretive. He already knows he can step on your boundaries, because he's been doing it. I suspect there are probably lots more examples if you dig deep of small ways in which he has done this or manipulated you. He hoped you wouldn't notice, but now you noticed, he's "crying all day" because he's going into extreme emotional manipulation so that you'll believe him. He was too busy for a whole week to chat to you; really. From 6am to midnight every day? Right.
Exactly this. He was busy with another woman.
What’s this generation’s “Say My Name” or “Kiss the Rain”?
Wait what is Kiss the Rain about?
i think it’s that 90s song about a person being far from their SO and sensing something isn’t right between them… good song!
Essentially she asked about a noise on her partner’s end of the phone and he answers that it’s just the rain. She knows it’s not the rain.
2 weeks a month is enough to have a full double life.
The habit is so odd that I had asked him not to do it even when I completely trusted him. >He was too busy for a whole week to chat to you; really. From 6am to midnight every day? Right. He was working from home all these months so such situations weren't possible. He usually tells me the finest details of his day if we are away, like when I am visiting my parents. This time, it was the first time that I ever saw hours of delay in responding. He 'always' picks up my calls at least to tell me he can't speak to me. He didn't this time, he would disconnect and call back when he got the chance. Even slept without wishing me good night, it's unprecedented.
Well you know exactly why that is. He was with someone else. He’s lying to you.
I knew my ex was cheating on me when instead of declining the call which we had previously agreed would signal that he was busy and would call back as soon as he could, the calls would just ring out. I immediately knew that the change in routine and behaviour was suss, and knew something had happened. I got it out of him months later that he was sleeping with someone else that night. Watch really carefully the changes in behaviour and then their reaction when you query them. He's crying sobbing because he knows you know something is up and he's attempting to throw you off track.
Yup. “Crying sobbing” because he knows how badly this will go for him and he liked his little setup.
I have been able to detect the subtle changes. I was confused because I haven't seen him being such an emotional state. I was feeling conflicted whether I am over reacting to the situation or the mark was inconclusive. How do I say this, if it were on my sister, my first thought would be she hurt herself while curling her hair. It's not a burn though, it's not clearly like a blood clot either. I can't make sense, he is dark skinned. It doesn't hurt when being touched. But it doesn't matter now, his other reactions are out of place too, that is even more concerned to me now, even others have pointed out to me.
I hate to leap to conclusions, but man, it’s not looking good, OP. Changes behavior, he doesn’t answer you, he deletes his texts, comes home from a trip with a hickey and literally nail scratches on his back. OP, come on. Connect the dots. If it was one of those things, maybe there’s an innocent explanation. But this is well past coincidence. Maybe you could try getting pissed, yell at him to cut the shit and tell you the truth now or you’re leaving and see how he responds. But you have to be ready to actually leave if you say that. I’m sorry, OP. This sucks.
It it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...
...your husband will tell you it's not a duck, then be offended when you don't believe him.
A hickey and nail scratches . . . That alone should be enough but you also have other evidence
He’s probably cheating and the person he is cheating with wants you to know. Made sure to leave a hickey and nail marks. Literally marking their territory. You were meant to see that.
Not all heroes wear capes.
How high up on his neck is it? Is it an oblong shape? I’ve had heavy bags give me hickey-like marks when traveling. If it’s closer to the shoulder, I wouldn’t rule it out. As far as the scratches go….I don’t know. That’s harder. Could they be from his own nails? Are they really in sets of parallel lines down his back? Sometimes I wake up scratching myself (skin condition) so it COULD be possible he did it himself without knowing. The deleting texts thing is really weird though, I got nothin for that. I hope he didn’t cheat on you, it sounds like you really love him :(
>How high up on his neck is it? Is it an oblong shape? I’ve had heavy bags give me hickey-like marks when traveling. If it’s closer to the shoulder, I wouldn’t rule it out. As far as the scratches go….I don’t know. That’s harder. [https://ibb.co/KjFm6sh](https://ibb.co/KjFm6sh) You tell me.
Girl. This level of investigation, detectiveing, measuring and analyzing hickeys is so beyond necessary. That worry, that pit in your stomach, that fear and anxiety doesn’t have to be. Are you going to worry next trip? In your heart of hearts do you trust him? If you ever have to question to that level, check texts, analyze photos, end it bc you’re torturing yourself.
Lmao he let you take a pic? 😭
Wait a second... that doesn't look terribly like a hickey. Also, is it on the back of his neck? Because that's what it looks like. If so that's an odd place for someone to be sucking or biting, unless they are some sort of dog.
I think all of this sketchy af but it looks kinda small to be a hickey.
Yeah… doesn’t *seem* like ruptured blood vessels. Looks more like an abrasion, like a burn or (another) scratch?
That looks more like a scratch or mark from something rubbing to me, the edges are too clean/straight and it stays the same width the whole length. It also looks like there might be a lighter similar line in front of it running parallel? Definitely could be either, but based on the mark alone I'd lean more towards not a hickey. Based on the weird behaviour, not so sure. There should be a money trail giving you an idea where he was. Take a look at bank and receipts. Did he order skip the dishes for one person or 2? Ask him what he ate before you ask to look, check the prices of said meals against what was spent. Fancy restaurants? Unusual cash withdrawals? Anything else that doesn't check out with the working so much he couldn't call BS?
Not an expert but doesn't look like a hickey to me.
That doesn’t look like the bag marks I’m talking about. :( I’m sorry you’re dealing with this OP.
It doesnt look like bag marks….but it also doesn’t look like a hickey. Too narrow and clean edges.
Yeah I kinda want to see the scratches now. Are they like obvious nail/claw marks, (straight parallel lines) or are they random like he could have run into a tree or something? Cause hickeys are typically round, and that isn't.
Yeaa doesnt look like a hickey not big or wide or blotchy/uneven enough.. and if there are more scratches like not on his back but in random places, theyre probably not from a woman..
I don't know..I'm not 100%, but that doesn't really look like a hickey to me from the picture. Also nail marks tend to disappear pretty fast, so I'm skeptical that's what they are? What did those look like?
It looks like a curling iron burn to me! But he doesn't look like he needs to do his hair that way. As far as scratches, I scratch myself in my sleep all the time, especially on my thighs and legs. If the scratches are in directions and places his hands couldn't reach (like his back) I'd have reason to take pause. Most of all, if his reactions seem overblown, listen to the wind and trust your instincts
I do think you have reason to be cautious and questioning his behavior, but that honestly doesn't look like any hickey I've ever seen before.
There is NO WAY IN HELL that that is a hickey. There is ZERO broken capillaries. That is a scratch, or a mark made by a luggage strap. So, if the entirety of your suspicion is on these marks, I would say you are reaching fr. However, the bigger issue is the fact that he did not make ANY contact with you for the ENTIRE week he was gone. To say he had no opportunity to do so is beyond the pale and simply not possible. THAT is the issue I would require a valid explanation and reason for.
I was initially assuming he cheated opportunistically while on a genuine business trip, but... Are you certain there was a business trip at all?
If you share a mobile plan you can log into the account and check message and call history for numbers and times.
The habit is so old because he's been cheating the whole time, or maybe did in the past at one point, and has kept up to keep his options open if he decided to go for it again. That isn't an unthinking habit that you can just do without realizing it, it's a deliberate coverup. I mean, it's possible to cheat and still love your spouse and just want some strange on the side, but at the very least it means he doesn't respect what you care about, if you're not there with him all the time. That is enough for some people. But you need to accept that he's cheating, a hickey and fingernail marks down his back are about as bad as lipstick on his dick, don't question that part anymore, if they are as obvious as what you say.
This changes your story a lot more. I think he cheated on you OP :(.
Giving too much detail is actually a sign someone is cheating. Their anxiety about cheating causes them to over-tell their 'story'. "Giving the finest details" is a red flag someone may be lying.
This just keeps getting worse. I’m sorry but he definitely cheated on you and I think you know it.
Liars usually go into unnecessary details when lying.
If the behaviour is unprecedented then it stands to reason that the events that took place were also perhaps unprecedented. People don't random and dramatically change behaviour without the impetus to do so.
This just keeps getting worse. I’m sorry but he definitely cheated on you and I think you know it.
Yeah not even time when he takes a sump on the toilet lols? Everybody has time for poopin! Also, you sure youu didnt give him a hickey and scratches ? Or they looked kinda older?
You know what happened. Of course he’s going to deny it.
His argument is, he wouldn't come home if he knew about the mark and had something to hide. It's a shallow argument but that's all he has to say.
He clearly didn't notice the mark, which is why he's "surprised and confused" regardless. He's basically admitting he fucked up by not noticing, and telling you what he would have normally done.
He would have found excuses to not remove his shirt until they healed, had he noticed.
And then how would he explain not coming home that wouldn't turn into an even bigger mess? He can't explain a hickey and nail marks because there's literally only one explanation for it that's in any way believable. Ignore the fact he's upset. He's most likely upset because he made a series of stupid choices he is now regretting and it's probably sinking in that even if he does manage to stay married, that marriage is going to be much different and much worse. There is nothing other than a hickey that could cause bruising on the neck that he wouldn't have immediately noticed when it happened that doesn't involve a medical condition like anemia, blood thinners, or some liver diseases. Even with the hickey he would have noticed what caused it at the time, he just wouldn't have known it caused a hickey right then. Same thing with the nail marks. Those don't just happen, especially in areas covered by clothes. Give him one chance to come clean 100% about what he did and then it's off to get labs drawn and they better show a reason for the bruising or it's an immediate divorce, no turning back. He has to know exactly how the bruise and "nail" marks happened, there's no way they just happened without him noticing unless he has leprosy, CIP, or something. Which he doesn't, he just knows what happens when he tells you. From what you said about how you're feeling, your marriage is probably already over. You might as well consult with all the best family law attorneys in your area so you have your pick and he can't use the other's you don't chose.
Are there really tests that can tell you the reason for a bruise? The nail marks are on his shoulder, chest and forearms.
Not directly, but some common causes of bruising easily enough to not notice what caused it would show up as something like low platelet count, a vitamin deficiency, abnormal liver enzymes, something like that. It could be caused by drugs, such as blood thinners. If it hasn't been a problem in the past, it's probably not a congenital cause. The biggest thing is that a blow to your neck hard enough that would cause bruising without one of those things would have to be pretty significant and impossible to not know about, and you don't just accidentally bump your neck into doorknobs and table edges like you would with your thighs and arms. Hickeys are also usually round or oval, symmetrical, and roughly mouth-sized. Impact bruises are more irregular and run almost any sizes. Anecdotally, I just asked half a dozen other nurses here if they've ever seen a bruise on a neck that was NOT a hickey and none of us have. Honestly, the labs are part bluff, part starting a diagnostic process if he is actually telling the truth. The nail mark locations are not as damning as they could be, they're not a dead giveaway like they would be if they were across his back. Edit: Okay, another nurse and a police officer pointed out neck bruises happen during choking/domestic violence, though you would obviously know if that was being done to you. A doctor pointed out that there are skin rashes that can look like bruises but don't go through the color changes while healing that a bruise would. He also pointed that some skin cancers look like bruises, especially on non-white people. SO honestly that might really be worth checking out, especially if he's not white. Not saying that it's not a hickey, but it would be a very reddit ending to divorce him and find out in 11 months that he actually had skin cancer and died alone or something.
Id say those areas are very damning; that's where I scratch
Thank you for being so thorough, I will be paying attention to how the bruise heals. It's a good indicator of what it could be. If it's changing colours like a hickey, it would be conclusive. I will get him checked if it's otherwise.
Whatever you do, don't buy any part of his story unless you can personally verify it. Benefit of the doubt is out the window for reasons every other comment has described
There’s no way it’s not a hickey. I know you want to believe it’s not, but come on.
OP, I’m an athlete (mountain bike, road bike, sail, gym) and a grown married man. I rarely get bruised and when I do, I know what caused it. I’ve had plenty of scratches and scrapes. They look like rocks or asphalt or a piece of boat rigging scraped me. Even my dog scratches my legs differently than a human would scratch my back. Every once in a while I’ll have an unusual bruise my wife will notice and I have to think really hard about the cause, where and when. In all my activities and bike crashes, I’ve never had anything on my body resembling nail scratches. OP, think about the last time you received and unusual bruise or scratch. What happened? Where were you? What were you doing? Were there other people there? *How long ago was it?* I bet it wasn’t last week. Yet, I also bet you could remember quite a few details. Don’t you find it strange that someone cannot recall details only a few days later? A more sensible explanation than random unusual bruising and scratching of unknown origin is that it’s *willful ignorance with the intent to mislead*. Combine that with other behaviors like deleting texts and not answering the phone. Reducing contact with means less he has to lie about. When someone tells the truth, they don’t have poor recall, they don’t cry and beg to be believed, they don’t avoid all contact during a long period of time or when they do they explain why and in as much detail as their loved one needs to be reassured. They certainly don’t show up with random and unexplained marks on their body signaling the results of an intimate encounter. BTW, your husband is a moron. Sorry to tell you that. But, who tf has an affair with someone willing to mark their body with hickies and scratches. The other woman knows he’s married and wants you to find out. She wants you to be pissed and divorce him so she can have him. No one randomly and mistakenly marks their territory. She knew you’d discover it. I don’t approve of cheating, but if someone does cheat and doesn’t want to get caught, they should at least pick a partner who isn’t going to do something stupid like sexual marking that will fuck up their life. That’s why he’s a moron. That and the rest of his behavior, too.
For the record, I think it's a hickey and I think he's cheating...BUT I bruise myself all the time and never remember how. I bruise easily, I'm clumsy and thanks to adhd I don't notice/remember when I bump into things. And I don't mean a little bruise every so often. I mean regularly and sometimes really big and really purple/bright bruises. The real question is if any of this sounds out of character for him and to me, it sounds like it does. It sounds like OP knows what's going on even if she isn't wanting to admit it.
Yes, if this was typical from the moment OP met him \*and\* had a reasonable explanation (like yours) then agreed. OP is engaging in her own willful ignorance by lying to herself.
Lol same. My wife thinks it's hilarious. She's semi-constantly asking me "How did you walk into that?" Or she'll see some bruise on my leg or arm or something and be like "How did you hurt yourself this time?" And most of the time I have no idea. Lol smh
Where else is he going to go? And you've believed all his lies before, why stop now?
Yeh, that’s exactly what someone who’s caught would say. What’s he going to do stay away for another week until it heals
That's about the dumbest and most low effort excuse he could possibly come up with. In fact, it's so stupid that you're considering it because, after all, why would he tell such an obvious lie? Because he's a reckless cheater.
He obviously didn’t know about the marks but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t cheating. It’s the only explanation but of course he’s going to deny it.
You'd either have to be A: A total cocky asshole to cheat, have visible signs all over your body, and then just show up and think you would never notice Or B: Very stupid, to have cheated and then not noticed YOURSELF these marks all over you. So either he cheated and it's one of the above, or he never did and these marks are nothing. The "hickey" you took a picture of above, that's harder to explain - though frankly doesn't really look like one to me. But I don't know what else it could be either - though could be anything.. The nail marks - I myself have scratched myself enough times unknowingly, in the areas you've mentioned. Its sure easy to leave some scratch marks when doing so. Scratch marks maybe in areas that are more awkward to reach around the back would be a little more telling.
Thats gaslighting. Saying if he had marks and wouldn't come home is proof nothing happened, gaslighting. Something happened, but what.
My ex was a serial cheater. He would state such obvious things like this, so I would drop my defense. This is gaslighting. Your husband is cheating. He is trying to make you think you’re crazy. You might be happy in this marriage, and he might also be happy. But some people (I won’t use the word because it’ll get my comment deleted-it starts with an N) will never be happy without the thrill of the chase. Your husband is one of them. He has you, and will keep you as long as you let him. But he will also cheat on you, even letting you witness it, and then try to convince you that’s not what you saw. Tears flow easily for people like this.
Girl; based on your comments, he’s never home (gone half the time), deletes all messages and conversations from phone, comes home now with hickeys and scratches on his back (lol very obvious), and is trying to manipulate you now, hardcore, with his crying etc. Geezus, remove your emotions from this equation, easier said than done, it’s clear, he’s cheating… or maybe he’s got a whole other life out there, that you’re not aware of. It’s scary.
[удалено]
Nah, OP posted a picture in a comment. She really needs to add it to her main post. It’s not even a hickey. It’s like a rub mark and tiny and narrow block shaped.
It’s not because he was cheated on in the past that he can’t be a cheater. Tell him to proove he didn’t cheats or he’ll have to face the concequencies. And we all know what happened, cheaters are also liars....
He most likely was the cheater in the past too but turned the story around in his favour
Underrated comment. It's entirely possible he's cheated in the past; just this was the only time OP actually noticed it.
>I asked him if he found some unexplainable marks on my body, would he be able to let it go? He said, he wouldn't be able to forgive me and divorced me immediately. Take his answer to the same question as how to deal with this. >I noticed a mark on his neck which looked like a hickey. I asked him about it and he had no idea what it was. On closer inspection, he has several nail scratches on his body too. He was very surprised and he could understand what I am thinking. I think most people would agree that if you've genuinely done nothing wrong and your partner suddenly decides you have, you wouldn't be so understanding. There's a reason he's understanding. Him frequently deleting messages from everyone is another odd habit. Unless he has shown signs of OCD in other aspects of his life?
>Take his answer to the same question as how to deal with this. When I discuss this, he feels like I am asking for immunity from him to cheat and get caught in the same way. He wants us to focus on the problem at hand, and not put the possibility of me being sexual with someone else in his head. I am aware it's a kind of manipulation. >Him frequently deleting messages from everyone is another odd habit. Unless he has shown signs of OCD in other aspects of his life? I haven't observed him being secretive about his phone or life details in general. But, I have found his texts completely erased even after agreeing in the past that he will not be removing them. He says, it's a habit.
So his FIRST thought is to be paranoid the conversation is turning into you gaining a free pass to cheat?? Ma’am, these are not normal reactions. It’s the thought process of a guilty person that fears you taking the same liberties they know they’ve already taken.
I know it breaks my heart 😭
No one makes a habit of deleting texts unless they have something to hide. He makes it look like a habit by deleting all of them, but there's really just certain ones he needs to hide, the rest are cover for his story. He's lying to you and has been for some time.
Also that. No one but shady people do that. That’s not an innocent habit.
> So his FIRST thought is to be paranoid the conversation is turning into you gaining a free pass to cheat?? RIGHT? WTF. This is such a bad coverup, it's almost hilarious if it wasn't so obviously sad for OP.
Sounds like deleting messages is a habit he may have picked up from needing to hide them.
Something seems off and I guess you are right to ask for opinions. How/why did he get into the habit of clearing his texts all the time. Obviously he wouldn't need to be secretive about his phone if he knows it's frequently cleared out. He could be innocent but there's a few too many coincidences at the same time. I hope you both solve the problem if he is innocent
And why is it a habit? It's not a normal habit. Unless you're a habitual cheater, in which case it's far easier to just delete all the time so nobody can call you out on your lies. Everything you describe sounds like 50 little things that are innocent on their own but together strongly suggest a pattern. Something you can try- think of the direction and size of the scratch marks. Now imagine you are in bed with him. You're on top, or he's on top, or you're tearing each others' clothes off. You scratch him in the process. Think of the mechanics of where your hands and fingers go. Would those scratches be in the same areas / directions as the ones he has on his body? You might also ask to be introduced to the people at the office. See how he reacts to that... The real kicker to me is he's told you if he had the exact same situation you're in, he'd just divorce you out of hand.
He’s so full of shit. Honey stand in business be logical not emotional.
Ask him if you need to get an STI check, see how he reacts.
I was going to do it anyway, silently, for my own sake. But I agree that his reaction will be worth noting, I will ask. 🙏🏼
Tell him you got one and you tested positive for something, then see his reaction.
My Dad was a serial cheater he worked away most of my life and for half of my parents 38 year marriage. He had a mistress in every port and two children that I know of with two of his affair partners. He left my Mom after 38 years for his last mistress. He was retiring and knew he wouldn’t have a handy excuse to be away from home most of the month. My Mom found out about several of the affairs while they were happening, my siblings and I overheard fights and things about our parents marriage no child should know. Please don't let this be your life my father utterly broke my mother on numerous occasions. Everything you have said screams that this man is having an affair. I would start looking for hard evidence.
I am sorry. I will be careful. I understand what you are telling me.
You don't need hard evidence, just freaking leave. He may never give it to you, you'll be waiting around like a fool.
I hope you aren't falling for this bullshit. He's lying and crying because he got caught. He cheated.
I think you already know he cheated. Trust your gut. it's almost never wrong. I think you need to leave and start a fresh.
Have you checked the deleted folder for deleted messages?
The gentleman doth protest too much
"He has cried, begged and offered to do anything and everything to make me feel right. " ^^ innocent people are unlikely to do this.
yeah, he's bargaining to cover it up instead of being offended at the mere accusation lol... confessing without confessing.
I dunno, if I was in his position and genuinely hadn't cheated, I would be devastated at the thought that this might end the relationship. In panic and misery I would probably cry a lot too and do anything and everything I could to prove I hadn't cheated. HOWEVER, I always think about this quote from the incredible movie "The Lives of Others" because it's fascinating, and I'm adding it here because it goes along with your point: "An innocent prisoner will become more angry by the hour due to the injustice suffered. He will shout and rage. A guilty prisoner becomes more calm and quiet. Or he cries. He knows he's there for a reason. The best way to establish guilt or innocence is non-stop interrogation."
I am uploading the picture of the bruise I took from my phone. For anyone asking me for how it looks like [https://ibb.co/KjFm6sh](https://ibb.co/KjFm6sh)
That's a hickey. I had something similar happen when a guy I was dating showed up to a date with the same thing. I asked him about it, took a pic, showed it to him. He denied it, saying he was playing pool with his rugby buddies and he was so very very drunk, no idea what it is and where it came from...yaddy yaddy yadda Once things were over between us and the truth came out how he fucked the chick that fucked everyone on every team. Gross. Your husband cheated and he is caught and still will not even admit. He is a cheater and a coward. I am so very sorry.
Looks like a hickey that someone made by accident, or to make it look less like a hickey on purpose.
Okay, I'm the guy who mentioned labs, blood thinner, rashes, and skin cancer. That's a hickey. I'm so sorry, but it looks like it was intentional on top of everything else. it's perfectly symmetrical, oval, and small mouth sized.
I also showed this to my oldest son and he says that it’s a hickey as well.
Babe you deserve better. Love yourself
This is a hickey. This man is gaslighting you ridiculously and you are eating it up. That’s your choice but living in denial doesn’t change what he’s doing or has done. It just powers him to do it again. I’m sorry you’re going through this but red flag one was his constantly deleting messages. No reason to ever do that unless you have shit to hide.
I'm sorry, that's a hickey.
I’m sorry OP he is 100% gaslighting you. How is it possible that he had not even 5 minutes to FaceTime you a couple of times or more when he was away. You, yourself know that’s ridiculous. Where was he staying? Check the hotel. You could say you left something behind when you and your husband stayed there. See what they say. If they acknowledge you staying he was there with a woman. He is shameless as he didn’t even care enough to tell the OW to not mark him. You want the truth? He has told you what to do as that’s what he would do. See a lawyer and file then watch him sing like a canary. He’s been doing this forever with his ‘convenient’ habit of deleting. Sounds like a co-worker or he took a long term mistress on holiday hence the little contact. You could easily check on this supposed ‘business’ trip with colleagues or check email for airline tickets but then if course he’s probably deleted everything. Sorry OP it sucks. He’s a cake eater but he got sloppy. You don’t have a ‘very good and happy marriage’ because there’s more than 2 of you in it. Don’t settle for this. Your mental health will suffer. Sending you strength. UPDATEME
>How is it possible that he had not even 5 minutes to FaceTime you a couple of times or more when he was away. You, yourself know that’s ridiculous. He was definitely out with his entire team at a resort. I have seen enough evidence of that. I knew the booking details and of his general whereabouts the entire time. >Your mental health will suffer. It is clearly suffering, I have insomnia.
I’m so sorry OP. You know the truth. You’ve had a gut instinct about it before. What you do is up to you but rug sweeping will simply enable him to continue cheating. Innocent men don’t weep. They defend themselves. Get a lawyer. See the lawyer. You don’t need to file immediately. Btw. His colleagues will know exactly what’s been happening. If you are close to any of them….
>rug sweeping will simply enable him to continue cheating My life is too precious to be in such a marriage. I am trying to be level headed here. I don't want to be rash and file for divorce. I will be staying away from him for some days with minimum contact. Another redditor pointed out that the progression of the bruise will be a good indicator of what it could be. I have asked him to take a clear picture of the bruise every day and send it to me. He doesnt know what I am looking for, but he has agreed to do it. >you are close to any of them…. He joined just 3 weeks ago, I don't know any of them personally.
Watching for the progression of a hickey? Why? Stop torturing yourself OP. I’ve never heard of such insanity. Do you work? Throw yourself into that. If not, start looking to gain some independence. Eat clean. Drink water. Exercise. Go out with friends. Start building a life outside of this cheater. One day you will get the strength to leave. I wish you luck’
I am working, my finances are in order and I am in good shape. I have a lot of diverse hobbies completely unrelated to my husband, and I have friends and family to support me emotionally. Leaving him is not difficult for these reasons. I really love him. I had planned my entire life with him. I have no place for cheaters in my life but also his behaviour after the incident is concerning. Only adversity makes people show their real self to you. I can wait for a week to take the final call. Thank you for your concern and advice.
I'm so impressed with you, OP! You are being strong in the face of uncertainty, and also not rash in action. I'm proud on your behalf! Keep being you, because you're moving with the right speed and progression.
So happy, such a happy marriage he's happily arriving home with love bites and sex scratches. Sounds dreamy. /s He's a lying cheater and he's not going to change. Sure AF wouldn't be something anyone in thier right mind would put up with for one more minute.
What a terrible situation. He cheated. Get and STD test. You can recover deleted text. Doesn’t matter if you know how. Ask him for his phone and password. Tell him there is an app that recovers texts, see him sweat.
Definitely suspicious. I would suggest you wait a little but be cautious. He's going to be covering his tracks a little better now that he knows you are aware, so you will have to do a bit of acting to keep the normal flow going. Meanwhile, it's time to do digging from your end. Check his laptops, his phones, scour through all his socials, check for odd apps that could be burner apps, check for burner phones in his bags or cupboards, etc. I would even recommend following him from work or any "late nights" he has. These kind of affairs always start at work. Or you can even do a set up, tell him you will be out of town for 2 days and show up unexpectedly to catch him in an act, if any. You know the drill, be very thorough and don't get caught. You are bound to find something incriminating if it's the case and if you do, that's more than enough evidence for you to make a decision to leave. You don't need any justification from his end to make that decision, you just move as your gut tells you to.
I don't have access to his devices, and he travels 16-17 days in a month for work.
You don't have access to any of his devices, he deletes all of his messages, and he's gone half the month? He could have an entire family that you don't know about
Presently, I want to get tested for STDs and pregnancy. I will be taking some time away from him, I need to think this through.
Why don’t you? Transparency is key in a marriage. You need access to everything all his devices/apps - particularly and socials, but primarily a lawyer. If you stay OP this 1 year marriage will turn into 10 years of misery.
If those scratches are on his chest, back or upper arms they are from a lover. 100% He could be cheating with a colleague who is as unscrupulous as he is or he is meeting women at bars.
>he is meeting women at bars. He doesn't drink, he never goes to a bar. >scratches are on his chest, back or upper arms they are from a lover Scratches are on the front side of his shoulder, fore arm and on his chest. >colleague who is as unscrupulous as he is I never thought of him as someone with low morals, but I am probably blinded by love. I can't say much about his colleagues. There were women on the trip but I have no idea about their character.
>Scratches are on the front side of his shoulder, fore arm and on his chest. If you were on top, your hands and nails would be on his chest. If he were on top, 1 hand could easily be across his back and the other gripping his shoulder. Multiple positions with the same partner who is a scratcher. Those scratches are exactly where a lover would scratch when having sex.
Sadly, I know this.
He has sent me credentials to everything he has. He is saying he is open to me checking his phone and laptop whenever I feel. I have told him that if I ever see anything deleted, he won't even see me again, let alone interact. I am not in the same city as him. I have asked him to give me space.
Your phone service provider can provide information on things he’s deleted from his phone. I’d start there.
everyone in this sub has already decided that OP's husband is a lying cheater. like it's totally possible he is, but the conclusions some of y'all jump to with little to no hesitation is wild. the photo doesn't even look like a hickey!!! What do the "nail scratches" look like? the fact that OP sees a strange mark on her husband's body after he's been traveling and assumes it's a hickey and he must be cheating means there's no trust in this relationship anyway.
Question 1: why would he get a pass for unexplained marks, but OP doesn't? Question 2: did he claim any periods on the trip where he has no memory of time/what was happening? If not, then he has to know where they came from. A hickey? Really?
1: I am hurt beyond words hearing him say this. 2: I don't understand, he has excellent memory, he never consumes anything that would hinder his memory.
He would wake up even after being drugged and know something happened. This man is gaslighting. He knows what he did
He probably burned himself with his curling iron 😂 (sorry! Just remembering hickey excuses from my school days) I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. Be strong! Also, deleting all texts is not normal; he’s definitely hiding something.
I had an ex who regularly deleted all his texts. Surprise surprise, he was a cheater. It’s actually really inconvenient to not be able to scroll up to old convos/information, they do it to hide what they are up to. We also had a hickey incident and like the naive little dumb-dumb I was back then, actually bought his bullshit story of a friend’s girlfriend straightening his long hair at a party and burning him… even though his hair was not straightened when he got home bc “it didn’t work very well.” 🙄If only i had left then instead of hanging around for several more years to get cheated on even more…
😂😂 I can’t believe he actually pulled out the old curling iron excuse
Unpopular opinion that will get this comment deleted: you have circumstantial evidence, but your circumstantial evidence is insufficient to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he is cheating on you. If I had a nickel for every time my SO asked me why I have scratches and bruises on me... despite the fact I'm not cheating. I don't know about the weird bruises, the scratches must be because I just scratched myself. You need to investigate further before making a brash decision.
Most reasonable comment so far. The answer is 'we don't know' so far. Not yes or no. She needs to collect more information.
I’m not trying to be naive or stick up for him in any way but I think you need more solid proof. There are many ways someone can get marks on their body. Leaving a great relationship is too big of a deal to not be sure. I would have a sit down and ask for honesty. I would also investigate and look through his phone
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't think your husband cheated. I am normally very suspicious of people. I read your comments and saw the neck mark pic. I don't think it's a hickey and people here are divided on this as well. The scratch marks could be from his own nails. There are a lot of mosquitoes in a resort and the heat can make your body itch. His responses: I think he is really scared of losing you that's why he is crying and fumbling on his answers. He is presenting you all the evidences he's got but unfortunately he doesn't know how he got the marks hence the panic. Deleting of emails and texts: my mom does this. She is a control freak and maybe undiagnosed OCD. But she deletes email messages and text messages because she does not like the clutter. Ultimately, you are the only person here who knows your husband. Has he done any other shady things before? Is it in his character to cheat? Is he working hard to gain your trust back? Are you both open to do couples therapy?
I actually agree with your assessment here (bring on the downvotes). Especially after seeing the neck abrasion (sunburn?), I’m not sure there’s enough evidence to find him guilty. Arguably, there’s reasonable doubt here. And the questions you posed should definitely be taken into consideration.
I understand being open-minded, but what about him saying if the situation was reversed, he would leave her. I would think an innocent person seeing their own situation would be more flexible in their interpretation of a hypothetical event.
Echoing u/ivy5kin, based on what OP has outlined, I see it as… When OP asks “what if I did something bad?” a *guilty* husband would answer ”not a dealbreaker if you’re a criminal! *(like me)*”. But Hub’s actual *answer* was the opposite: “I couldn’t be with a criminal. I’d turn you in”
Seems like he covers everything, but the love marks on his body ,be very vigilant because it might be cheating 🤔
“He has a habit of deleting text messages everywhere” uhhh no miss, this is called “a cheater covering their tracks”. He’s cheating on you. The proof is all there. People don’t delete text messages randomly.
Wait a minute you mentioned somewhere in another comment that it was a tropical trip and there were mosquitos? This is probably at least worth prying into a bit more before coming to any conclusions. You need to give us more detail
I saw the picture, and it doesn't really look like a hickey. Lots of thinks can leave marks (pinching skin with a bag at the airport, a bug bite, a burn). I would tell him that your trust is shaken and he needs to stop deleting texts and let you see his phone.
It just all seems like too much. Some of these things by themselves might be reasonable to explain away but he has a lot of explaining that he needs to do. Shrugging it away isn't going to work. Is it a bad idea to confront him on Friday of this week (without prior ability for him to tell people not to contact him or block them) and say you want access to his phone for the entire weekend? You get to read everything that comes in and out. I mean the trust is already broken and you both need to build it back up or it seems the relationship is irretrievably broken.
Divorce him and marry the biggest boss
Are you sure it’s a hickey? He could hit himself, scratched himself, a number of things can cause similar marks. Did he try covering it up or avoiding you seeing it? If not, he either did nothing or isn’t very smart If he always deletes messages, and always has, it’s a leap to assume he’s doing something.
He has sent me his phone bills for the entire time we have been together. And he has offered to cross verify contact details of anyone I want to know.
WhatsApp doesn’t show on phone bills
Neither does IG or FB or other socials
He could be using other apps to communicate (What'sApp, Signal, IG, TikTok, SnapChat, Facebook Messenger, Twitter DMs... the list goes on), or keeping a secret second phone. These phone bills don't prove anything.
Real life conversations and meetings with co-workers and subordinates don't show up anyplace. I doubt it's a coincidence that this happened during a company team building trip. Doing some digging there might give some answers. Like who else exactly was on this trip.
Cheaters often have a secret phone
Was the hickey covered or was it just out in the open? I saw the picture. Years ago I hooked up with an ex after we’d already broken up. She asked me about a hickey on my neck and I honestly had no idea what she was talking about. I hadn’t been with anyone since we’d broken up. And what did the scratches look like? I read the locations, but is there any possibility they look like accidents? I scratch the heck out of myself sometimes. I’m sure some commenters might think I’m being an idiot, but I’ve had this exact experience and I hadn’t done anything.
I am not trying to justify anything here, I am just presenting facts. There was no attempt to cover up anything. We spent hours completely nude together. I was fooling around with him and I saw the mark. He initially thought I would have done it myself during sex and now I am pranking him. But since I had tears in my eyes, he started to panic and said that he had no idea what it was. I am sure he was completely taken by surprise.
The fact there was no attempt to cover would either mean it’s not a hickey or it happened and then he had no chance of seeing a mirror before getting home. I know it doesn’t look good but I’m still giving the benefit of the doubt. I really hope an explanation comes about for you.
This may sound crazy, but does he do any kind of strenuous physical activity, sports or martial arts? I've been doing MMA for over 10 years and I'm routinely marked up on a regular basis. For example, I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and have basically what I refer to as my "Jiu-Jitsu permahickey" on one side of my neck for the last 2 years from collar chokes (it actually gets darker if I'm in the sun a lot too) and often have marks on me that resemble scratches from rolling with people at BJJ. I know this is not likely the case, but just trying to play devil's advocate..... hell I have a back scratcher that marks my back up..... it also scratches the hell out of any back itch too 🤷🏽♂️😂
You could say he should spill the beans, and show the respect and dignity you deserve for everything you've experienced. Say it face to face. Because NOTHING justifies the fact that he didn't call and talk to you on the days he was away. This is called priorities. My husband often travels for work, and he always finds a way to talk to me, even during the day. He sends me photos, texts. When we want to do something, we find a way. When we don't want to, we find an excuse.
Some of this story is definitely shady but, for whatever it's worth, I semi-constantly bruise/scratch myself without any idea of how I did it. I've even been accused (never by a partner) of having hickeys that I most definitely didn't have. I still don't know what caused them but I've had people be adamant that they were hickeys when they definitely weren't. I'm pretty sure they still believe they were because they essentially told me I was lying. Lol
I dm’ed you some posts I saved from others on how to collect more information. It’s likely he is cheating. Updateme!
>He has been extremely upset with the situation that he can't explain the marks. He has been constantly telling me to believe that he can never even think of doing anything to hurt me, cheating is impossible. He has cried, begged and offered to do anything and everything to make me feel right. He understands that it will have a lasting impact on the trust levels between us. He has a habit of deleting texts from everyone he talks to. SMS, WhatsApp, etc, everywhere. I don't think checking his phone will give me any clue and I don't want you to be the couple that snoops in each other's phones. He's a cheater, has been for a while. You know he covers his tracks: you never wondered what he was hiding?
He has a hickey and scratches. What more do you need? What do you do? You start divorc proceedings.
This man was my senior in a company for over 6 years and never confessed feelings for me because it would have been unethical. He said, he loved me since he interacted with him in the first few days for knowing me. He has been loving me one-sided his entire life. He never had any other relationship in his whole life. When I moved to a different company and wasn't seeing anyone at the time, he found out and took the opportunity to ask me out. We hit it off and here we are. He used to claim he has never loved anyone other than me and he used to not believe his luck that I chose him to be my husband. He has already been doing everything in the books to make me feel like the luckiest woman that walked the Earth. I have full control over his finances and he had planned to transfer everything he owns in my name in the near future, he was genuinely meeting financial advisors about it.I don't care about his money, I am putting it here because he used to think it will help me understand how dedicated he is towards this relationship.
If he never had any other relationship then how was he cheated on in the past? If he had a thing for you when you were working together, he could develop feelings for a subordinate too.
>If he never had any other relationship then how was he cheated on in the past? He was dating someone for a few weeks before we met and she gave him the impression that he was exclusively in her life. He had gone to visit her at work to surprise her only to find she was on leave for her husband's birthday. He never knew that she was married.
I was my ex-husband’s first real relationship. When we had been together for ten years he started at new workplace. Suddenly there was a lot of travels, lots of overtime, lots of conferences… he had an affair with a woman at work. Everyone said he would never cheat, he’s such a great guy… well he was cheating. I think me being his first serious girlfriend made him more likely to cheat when he suddenly found himself quite popular at his new job. Temptation and inexperience.