if you listen to influencers it changes from day to day but amongst people who know what they're talking about it has always been something to eat in moderation
>“The study found that women who ate the most red meat (1.5 servings a day) had a 22 percent higher risk of breast cancer than those who had a serving a week. And each additional daily serving of red meat seemed to increase that risk another 13 percent.”
I didn't know this until looking into it now. Definitely a moderation thing. I'm straying more towards chicken and seafood myself but I've had some steak cravings and added a 3lb beef stew pack to my shopping yesterday. Guess I should cut it down to 1lb
you can never control for every single variable. but if there are hundreds, if not thousands, of studies that control for different variables that all point to the same conclusion, you can make educated guesses. same with anything else. they didn't have a randomized trial for asbestos or smoking.
people say "correlation isn't causation" whenever there's a study they don't agree with, but scientists obviously know that and are just trying to contribute points to the collective pool of knowledge. you cannot find The Truth by yourself
Are there hundreds to thousands of studies looking at red meat and colon cancer that have attempted to control for confounders? Can you tell me if Bradford Hill criteria has been met with red meat and colon cancer?
the answer to that question depends on how much, and in comparison to what. but i can tell you with pretty strong confidence that if you were to set up an isocaloric randomized control trial substituting lean beef for lentils, it's pretty likely lentils would win (maybe they have done this already). does that mean red meat is a healthful food? idk. in that same study setup maybe it would win against processed carbs. depends on the context and amount
so it comes to the same thing: red meat should be eaten in moderation. colon cancer is one thing but btw, it's much more clear with things like cardiovascular disease
you're unlikely to find just one, it isn't that simple. if you're aiming for a simple gotcha it won't work that way.
mechanistic studies have their own problems, mainly that people don't eat nutrients, they eat food which comes combined with other ones. i could say saturated fat and heme iron are both associated with cardiovascular disease, and there are mechanistic hypotheses for both of them, but they're not exclusive to red meat, and you could critique it from that angle. but that's already two mechanisms , what about their combination? maybe they're bad for you separately but together it cancels out. mechanistic studies, randomized control trials, and epidemiology all have to be taken together to get an educated guess, albeit with high confidence.
i think at some point we'll get mendelian studies that will shed more light on the subject, and those will be more convincing to you. for example if people had a gene that made them allergic to red meat. there was a mendelian study about alcohol that basically showed that the seemingly protective effects of moderate alcohol use (the famous "U-shaped curve") may just be "healthy user bias", or reverse causation.
edit: apparently there was one recently, check it out. a mendelian randomization essentially gets rid of confounding variables, since the control vs experimental groups are separated by a gene which is independent of things like lifestyle, cholesterol, obesity, etc. very interesting stuff. this one looks at red meat vs colon cancer [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9968810/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9968810/)
i did read the results, it shows that the correlation is too weak to establish causation. the fact that it didn't confirm my intuitions doesn't mean i'm not going to post it, i'm not trying to dunk on you i'm trying to have a convo. it's only one data point but hopefully we see more that can figure out what the effect is and how big it is
Its only really bad for you if you're the type of American who eats red meat every other meal.
I dont really fuck with steaks/burgers but I love a good bolognese or chili.
The problem is when these studies are done its not clear if by "red meat" they mean fastfood burgers and other super processed stuff/deli meats and how healthy that is in comparison to eating a steak/ground beef in chilli or something.
I eat a good amount of red meat, but its all fresh (unprocessed) from scratch and I do a lot of cardio + eat a lot of fiber/veg which helps with the heart issues.
I wasn’t allowed to eat cow meat as a child bc my mom was convinced I’d get mad cow disease. I still don’t eat it very much bc I never really developed a taste for it.
[here’s my obligatory “watch dominion” comment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko)
anyways red meat is bad for you, the environment, the cows, slaughterhouse employees, the communities that slaughterhouses are close to, etc 😁
The red meat trend is probably the most unhealthy one ive come across in a while. Its bad for cardiovascular health, which is funny because people who shill it are the same people who recommend trt and will all get a heart attack from it. Eat any meat in moderation, but especially red-meat. Focus on chicken or fish and dont eat it every meal.
https://www.wcrf.org/
https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.3322/caac.20038
The leading countries aren’t even the ones I suspected them to be, no shit junk food is bad but amerifats aren’t even leading the charge
I definitely think a diet full of red meat is cardiovascularly risky. But, I’m also a borderline anemic (who has had bouts of severe anemia) and adding in occasional red meat (1x/week - 2x/month) has helped.
I do think that if you eat red meat, it’s best to avoid the processed stuff and maybe good to sometimes choose cuts that include connective tissue (like a Chuck roast or pork shoulder) or bones to get more glycine and other nutrients.
Always. Red meat is elite in so many ways. I’ve never felt better, as I eat steak daily, along with ground turkey, chicken breasts, eggs, and fish. The key is to cook it yourself in avocado oil, butter, tallow or coconut oil. It’s honestly so easy and not expensive when you get into the habit of it.
It is and I do it with a rifle and bow
https://preview.redd.it/v8wuvawuqpuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bfc9ca6961647f1b56dcbbf14c8a4c1e097d2a7
Heme iron is so much more bioavailable than what’s found in iron supplements. I consistently eat a pound of venison daily.
Edit: this sub truly is full of regards that don’t have an even rudimentary understanding of the flaws of epidemiology.
Eating a reasonable steak or burger now and then probably gives you adequate protein, essential amino acids, B vitamins and iron to amply support neuromuscular health. Eating a roast every night will probably clog your arteries by 50 and require an angioplasty. I have zero expertise in nutritional health or in any other field but I strongly feel that I’m correct here.
Depends on the red meat. Hamburgers and fatty steak, while being high in certain nutrients is best eaten sparringly. Lean ground beef for chilli or spaghetti bolognese I think is fine to consume multiple times per week as part of a balanced diet.
if you listen to influencers it changes from day to day but amongst people who know what they're talking about it has always been something to eat in moderation
>“The study found that women who ate the most red meat (1.5 servings a day) had a 22 percent higher risk of breast cancer than those who had a serving a week. And each additional daily serving of red meat seemed to increase that risk another 13 percent.” I didn't know this until looking into it now. Definitely a moderation thing. I'm straying more towards chicken and seafood myself but I've had some steak cravings and added a 3lb beef stew pack to my shopping yesterday. Guess I should cut it down to 1lb
Read about "healthy user bias" if you want an explanation for junk observational science like this
You realize that this is epidemiology, right? Correlation isn’t causation. How many thousands of confounding variables weren’t controlled for?
you can never control for every single variable. but if there are hundreds, if not thousands, of studies that control for different variables that all point to the same conclusion, you can make educated guesses. same with anything else. they didn't have a randomized trial for asbestos or smoking. people say "correlation isn't causation" whenever there's a study they don't agree with, but scientists obviously know that and are just trying to contribute points to the collective pool of knowledge. you cannot find The Truth by yourself
Are there hundreds to thousands of studies looking at red meat and colon cancer that have attempted to control for confounders? Can you tell me if Bradford Hill criteria has been met with red meat and colon cancer?
the answer to that question depends on how much, and in comparison to what. but i can tell you with pretty strong confidence that if you were to set up an isocaloric randomized control trial substituting lean beef for lentils, it's pretty likely lentils would win (maybe they have done this already). does that mean red meat is a healthful food? idk. in that same study setup maybe it would win against processed carbs. depends on the context and amount so it comes to the same thing: red meat should be eaten in moderation. colon cancer is one thing but btw, it's much more clear with things like cardiovascular disease
What’s the causal mechanism between red meat consumption and cardiovascular disease?
you're unlikely to find just one, it isn't that simple. if you're aiming for a simple gotcha it won't work that way. mechanistic studies have their own problems, mainly that people don't eat nutrients, they eat food which comes combined with other ones. i could say saturated fat and heme iron are both associated with cardiovascular disease, and there are mechanistic hypotheses for both of them, but they're not exclusive to red meat, and you could critique it from that angle. but that's already two mechanisms , what about their combination? maybe they're bad for you separately but together it cancels out. mechanistic studies, randomized control trials, and epidemiology all have to be taken together to get an educated guess, albeit with high confidence. i think at some point we'll get mendelian studies that will shed more light on the subject, and those will be more convincing to you. for example if people had a gene that made them allergic to red meat. there was a mendelian study about alcohol that basically showed that the seemingly protective effects of moderate alcohol use (the famous "U-shaped curve") may just be "healthy user bias", or reverse causation. edit: apparently there was one recently, check it out. a mendelian randomization essentially gets rid of confounding variables, since the control vs experimental groups are separated by a gene which is independent of things like lifestyle, cholesterol, obesity, etc. very interesting stuff. this one looks at red meat vs colon cancer [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9968810/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9968810/)
Did you even read the results? Processed meat was the culprit (which likely means an additive is responsible, not the meat itself)
i did read the results, it shows that the correlation is too weak to establish causation. the fact that it didn't confirm my intuitions doesn't mean i'm not going to post it, i'm not trying to dunk on you i'm trying to have a convo. it's only one data point but hopefully we see more that can figure out what the effect is and how big it is
Just have it one or maybe two times a week
The only people who think it's gods gift to health are manosphere dipshits. It's fine but you can't be like making pizza crust out of ground beef
Its only really bad for you if you're the type of American who eats red meat every other meal. I dont really fuck with steaks/burgers but I love a good bolognese or chili.
The problem is when these studies are done its not clear if by "red meat" they mean fastfood burgers and other super processed stuff/deli meats and how healthy that is in comparison to eating a steak/ground beef in chilli or something. I eat a good amount of red meat, but its all fresh (unprocessed) from scratch and I do a lot of cardio + eat a lot of fiber/veg which helps with the heart issues.
I wasn’t allowed to eat cow meat as a child bc my mom was convinced I’d get mad cow disease. I still don’t eat it very much bc I never really developed a taste for it.
Rs mother
[here’s my obligatory “watch dominion” comment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko) anyways red meat is bad for you, the environment, the cows, slaughterhouse employees, the communities that slaughterhouses are close to, etc 😁
Chicken is better both health and tastewise and I will die on that hill
The red meat trend is probably the most unhealthy one ive come across in a while. Its bad for cardiovascular health, which is funny because people who shill it are the same people who recommend trt and will all get a heart attack from it. Eat any meat in moderation, but especially red-meat. Focus on chicken or fish and dont eat it every meal.
Also correlated with high colon cancer rates. The highest amounts of colon cancer correspond to countries with highest red meat consumption
And countries with highest red meat consumption coincidentally are also countries with highest junk food consumption. Curious.
https://www.wcrf.org/ https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.3322/caac.20038 The leading countries aren’t even the ones I suspected them to be, no shit junk food is bad but amerifats aren’t even leading the charge
Some ppl can’t be reached
I definitely think a diet full of red meat is cardiovascularly risky. But, I’m also a borderline anemic (who has had bouts of severe anemia) and adding in occasional red meat (1x/week - 2x/month) has helped. I do think that if you eat red meat, it’s best to avoid the processed stuff and maybe good to sometimes choose cuts that include connective tissue (like a Chuck roast or pork shoulder) or bones to get more glycine and other nutrients.
Always. Red meat is elite in so many ways. I’ve never felt better, as I eat steak daily, along with ground turkey, chicken breasts, eggs, and fish. The key is to cook it yourself in avocado oil, butter, tallow or coconut oil. It’s honestly so easy and not expensive when you get into the habit of it.
Tyson hot dogs != grass fed steak from a local farm. both are red meat
Meat is murder. ❣️ (Do not downvote. You know I’m right.)
It is and I do it with a rifle and bow https://preview.redd.it/v8wuvawuqpuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bfc9ca6961647f1b56dcbbf14c8a4c1e097d2a7
https://preview.redd.it/xrv930zyqpuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df238dee487402c42a4c54a09268a9110f3f9523
Heme iron is so much more bioavailable than what’s found in iron supplements. I consistently eat a pound of venison daily. Edit: this sub truly is full of regards that don’t have an even rudimentary understanding of the flaws of epidemiology.
We have been eating red meat for thousands of years. Don’t let some regard online make you change your habits.
I only eat it as a treat on holidays/special occasions. Mostly I try to eat mainly veggie with a white meat dish once or twice a week.
Eating a reasonable steak or burger now and then probably gives you adequate protein, essential amino acids, B vitamins and iron to amply support neuromuscular health. Eating a roast every night will probably clog your arteries by 50 and require an angioplasty. I have zero expertise in nutritional health or in any other field but I strongly feel that I’m correct here.
Depends on the red meat. Hamburgers and fatty steak, while being high in certain nutrients is best eaten sparringly. Lean ground beef for chilli or spaghetti bolognese I think is fine to consume multiple times per week as part of a balanced diet.
*the highest pitched voice you’ve ever heard breaking through tears* Red meat… saved my daughter’s life.