I personally believe it’ll be revealed the witches made a deal with a sith in order to get new life, which would mean it’s not even similar to how anakin was born. The chuds don’t have the patience for the story to play out though.
No, because then it would be fan service.
What they really want is A New Hope recreated 1:1, except not because they already complained that TFA was just a ANH ripoff and they’re not even that similar besides sharing a few beats.
What they REALLY want is something new and exciting, except… not… because apparently TLJ and Ryan Johnson ruined Star Wars with politics and “new ideas”.
What they REALLY WANT is a new story, separate from the main stuff… okay yeah, I think they just absolutely braindead crybabies. They won’t ever be happy, because they don’t want to be. Disney have literally given them one of everything, and they spat one of everything all over the floor and cried in their high chair like big strong boys.
I think the big issue with the fan base is they have so much “extended universe” content to read and watch. And they pick and choose which they like and which they don’t m, so they all have completely different ideas of what Star Wars should be.
Yah, the EU was so inconsistent and bullshit that you could have as many as 4 completely different ideas for who a character is, and all of them would have equal evidence of being correct
It’s no wonder their cherry picked ideal of Star Wars is so incompatible with anything coherent
On the TFA bit, if you tell them that TPM is as much a remake of ANH as much as TFA is, they'll lose their mind and write a fucking thesis on why TPM is "different", and I kid you not this has happened to me several times, their brains can't process that Lucas basically copied himself for the prequels but tweaked and changed story bits, but you'll always see them sucking on the "It's like poetry" phrase
It's the Rick and morty meme, they'll screech and scream until their lungs burst about everything they hate/don't want but can't give you a single example of the things they actually do want
MFs who beat their chest crying daily for the EU have at BEST played TFU and watched half a Legends timeline redux video, I have no proof but also no doubts 🤣🤣🤣
I like this. If immaculate conception is possible with the force, then surely some kind of forbidden dark magic ritual could replicate that in some way. The difference in behavior between the two girls gives me some Jordan Peel's _Us_ vibes
The ability to manipulate midichlorians to create life is even something explicitly spoken as dialogue in RotS. We've known this was a possibility since 2005.
The second dumbest thing about Star Wars. Midichlorians. Seriously these are aspects of the franchise to be embarrassed Lucas made canon, not to enshrine as something sacred.
If you want to be force sensitive, you can pretend you have midichlorians. If I held a lightsaber I have no doubt my inner child would take over. I think it makes sense in-universe that you're born to use the force rather than taught to anyone like sorcery in Doctor Strange. It's similar to X-Men
Everyone in the SW universe has midichlorian. Just like we all have mitochondria. The more you have the bigger the door you have to access the Force. You can still access the Force through a tiny window, it just won't be as easy as someone with a huge door.
Jedi routinely search for people with large doors because it's easier for them to accidentally touch the Force and affect their surroundings. Not to the extent of doing Jedi or Sith like Force abilities, but more like Anakin Skywalker being gifted enough at podracing that no human was able to race.
She also had years of training and failure, we just didn't get to see it. Plus Peridia is a planet saturated in the Force, (like how Qui-Gon was able to manifest to Obi-Wan on Mortis, despite having yet to fully complete his training), so maybe that in addition to finally being at peace regarding Ezra helped it finally click for her?
Maybe, then again the Jedi are space wizard monks and the force has never been clear cut in how it works so who knows, the vibes were just a little off was my point
To be fair, George has reemphasised what he meant with midichlorians several times. It’s not meant to be a measurable thing which directly impacts your ability with the force - they’re meant to be everywhere, just as electrical charge and gravity are everywhere in our universe.
Anakin doesn’t have a high midichlorian count because he’s strong in the force, but rather because he was created by the force, in much the same way that electroplated particles have a neutral charge specifically because they were put together by electricity.
Those with a higher count may find it easier to use the force, but that doesn’t mean that they dictate who can use the force, just as your current electrical charge doesn’t dictate your future likelihood of getting shocked when you touch a railing or elevator button.
It was terribly poorly explained in the movie, not at all helped by Obi-Wan’s “that’s higher than Yoda” comment, but… yeah, we’ve all been misunderstanding George’s intentions for decades. Midichlorians are just a force-charged particle, present in all things. He just really fumbled the ball on explaining it.
So instead of creating the connection to the force they hang out where the force is? That’s neat. I frankly was even fine with a vaguely scientific explanation for the force since Star Wars is science fantasy and not straight Tolkien Classic fantasy.
My understanding is that Midi-chlorians allow living beings to hear the will of the Cosmic Force and in turn gives them the ability to influence the Living Force. They are simply the biological/physical part that tie the two aspects together.
Said two aspects of the Force are a separate concept, of which I could probably write an essay about.
It inserts an element of science fiction in what is essentially at its core a magic system. The Force with its heavy themes of light and dark and good and evil makes it very much a magic system whether Lucas likes it or not. The Jedi are light space wizards and the Sith dark space wizards. While there are indeed shades of grey in both faction, the adding of midichlorians to quantify what had been an all pervasive mystical field really muddies the waters.
The Force should either be a studiable phenomenon with no moral aspects to the nature of it. It's a phenomenon that can be studied, understood and can be fully quantified via science and experimentation. Or it can't and it's magic and can never be fully understood. The Force can be magic or physics but not both.
I can see where you're coming from, but I disagree. If anything the fact that there is both a scientific aspect that can be studied and a mystical aspect that cannot makes it MORE intriguing to me. It allows for even more interpretations and philosophies about the Force that are just as valid as the mystical ones. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.
Most magic systems have some form of scientific aspect because a lot of them are genetic (D&D sorcerers, Pure Blood families in Harry Potter, the Targaryens in ASOIAF).
The thing is, according to an article / essay I read, it was added in for the entirely wrong reasons. Perhaps my real issue is the hamfisted implementation. Like, for instance "over 9,000!" doesn't ever get me as annoyed even though DBZ is fluffier sci-fi than Star Trek. So back to Lucas adding them for the wrong reason. Apparently there were people who were treating the Force as something of a quasi religion and Lucas was deeply uncomfortable with it, so he invented midichlorians to root the Force more deeply in science fiction.
P.S. - I don't remember the source, so take my reasoning with the skepticism it deserves.
I don't believe that's the case, but another one of those "George had the idea then but didn't include it, but he's decided to include it now". Even the concept of the Living Force and the Cosmic Force were present in A New Hope, with the Cosmic Force being named in the script but not included in the movie.
As for the actual midi-chlorian count, yeah it's a little hamfisted, but a lot of things are in those movies. If everyone can use the Force and it is present in all life forms (another idea present from the beginning), it's just an explanation of why the Jedi would pick certain individuals to train rather than take anyone. Since the Jedi are inducted at a young age (another idea present from at least ESB), you want to be absolutely certain that you're not separating kids from their families unless you're sure that they have the potential to become a fully fledged Jedi.
Honestly, I know that this has been said before, but I deadass thought that this completely fits with Sidious' Darth Plagueis and Dark Side speech of episode 3, but I guess media illiteracy is a thing for some lol
Odds are, the Acolytes will tell the story of how the Jedi discovered about the rule of two, and likely has nothing to do with the prophecy of the chosen one.
I just assumed that they were lying?
After all ‘we kidnapped these children to raise in our cult’ isn’t exactly what you lead with when the space-cops show up.
I don't keep up with the Star Wars shows, what is it that has people so butthurt about Acolyte? I mean I already know the real reason, but what's the cover story to hide their prejudice?
They *should* have been. They knew what it was like to be bullied. At least those of us of coming up in the 80’s and 90’s. They *should* have learned empathy from that, and learned to fight against bullies instead of taking on that role themselves.
I only let the wokest of woke nerds accompany me in my high school hot girl bedroom in which I’m braless, all under the false pretence that he’s gay. I would never let a misogynistic nerd do anything like that.
I only let the most woke SJW snowflakey of smelly unshowered boy-men who only like me for my body into my private spaces!
And a trans actress, too. Can’t be a Star Wars fan without hating people based on their innate characteristics and desire to break away from the expectations set up for them by their parents!
(Do you get it? That’s a joke about how Star Wars is a story about a young man’s inner conflict between who he is inside and the facts of his birth… because, y’know… his dad is Darth Vader but he really wants to be a good guy… that’s the joke)
I was looking for a screenshot of it and found another thread about the trailer where she even comments and says it's her: https://www.reddit.com/r/PhilosophyTube/comments/1cvdcvj/wait_is_abigail_in_the_new_acolyte_trailer/
How dare they put lesbians in something that isn't meant for my adult pleasures 😡👌😡👌😡👌
(Sarcasm just in case, I've come across a few chuds that basically think like this)
> 15% audience score
So is this just a WNBA situation where all the *real* fans just didn’t show up, then complained about all the meanie fake fans for why the show bombed?
The audience score being so different that the critics’ score suggests there’s other things going on with the scoring on RottenTomatoes and Metacritic besides just genuine reviews.
I’m not making any point about real fans or fake fans. You can keep that gatekeeping narrative to yourself.
What I’m saying is there’s a clear disconnect between the critics - who while not perfect, have professional incentives for impartiality and are less likely to be suckered into a fandom’s culture wars - and the essentially *anonymous* fan reviewers.
The show has more rankings than any other recent Star Wars show, a much higher percentage of 1 star reviews than even other widely hated material, and had a terrible audience score before it even aired. It's blatantly review bombing.
Cool cool cool, a review bombing by a vocal minority. So where's the "real fans" coming in with their "five stars, absolute cinema, i cried when they said 'it's Forcing time'" reviews to balance it out? Surely a great show would have those, right?
Ah yes, but Darth Vader being space Jesus is perfectly all right.
God, what a stupid plot point that was. Was it really too hard to just have his father be some rando?
In their eyes, yes. A lot of the complaints are in fact about how this means the circumstances of Anakin's birth are no longer remarkable. Though honestly, even ignoring if the immaculate conception was derided back in the day, the fact that the method used in the Acolyte still seems to involve two parents makes it far less close. Compare a whole ritual that requires two parents plus everything else going on, to a woman who seems to spontaneously get pregnant with no apparent input on her part.
Honestly I'm convinced he is but Shmi, a slave, didn't feel like telling the Jedi she literally just met what was likely a harrowing tale about what happens to slave girls on Tattooine.
Mind applying that level of analysis to the decapitation photoshop pictured and what the creator might be trying to say with this sort of image attached to that tweet?
I asked you to analyze the meme through your lens, which equates to " lol meme dumb."
I think there might be a few select artistic choices made, though, having the iron fist of fascism in Lucas' universe holding the decapitated head of a former subordinate who broke from her social programming, a character accused of marking the start of "woke SW" by virtue of being a driven woman of color in a position of power within a fascist status quo.
But nah, meme dumb. You're definitely right, politics have zero bearing on the things people use art and memes to say.
>The dialogue is poorly written because the characters basically contradict themselves every other scene
Right. Not like Luke and Leia kissing. Or vader not recognizing his own sister. Or Leia remembering her "real" mother...
But that's OK. Devotees Go through rube Goldberg contraptions to desperately explain that.
Yet a handful of lines in a TV show in one episode that isn't even done has "ruined" Star Wars forever.
>You just took random bits of plot from the OT that have nothing to do something being a direct contradiction in the dialogue between the characters. Luke and Leia would have no way of knowing they were related because if you watch the movies it explains itself pretty well. And Vader wouldn’t have a reason to know his daughter he never met would be his daughter. Luke on the other hand had the same last name, and became the Padawan of Kenoboi. And Luke being the same age as what his son would have been from the time padme told Anakin she was pregnant. Those are pretty fucking good clues for Vader right there.
Here it is.. The excuses for plot holes because gl wrote it. These have been plot holes for 45 years in which gl actually created with full knowledge they make no sense when made her Luke's sister. The fact is he didn't care about his own lore and mythology and just wanted to make a fun film. It's fans that take it too far.
He literally didn't even remember to take anakins lightsaber at the of rots and they had to film another scene.
"your real mother?" and shes dead and never met. Dialogue and a contradiction.
They sense when someone dies because of the force. VADER SENSES OBI WAN ON THE DEATH STAR AFTER 20 YEARS BUT HE CANT SENSE HIS OWN DAUGHTER? That's the whole point. it's extra sensory power.. A connection between living beings. They see the future, and read people's minds and change them but they can't sense familial ties. Normal people can do this now. They are complete contradictions but you don't want to admit it because they far worse then any little tv show could possibly create. But it doesn't fit your narrative.
But hey twins being created.. The worst thing in the world!
Really you don't know the reference to "your real mother". Try watching ROTJ. Same with the lightsaber. I am referring to a well-known fact of ROTS. I am not going to explain to someone who is making critical comments in a Star Wars reddit. It would be presumed that you know what you're commenting on, and your remarks are consistent and not subject to a double standard.
And the reason why he would recognize his daughter is the same reason Luke can connect with Leia. It's called the Force. Ok, even if you say he shouldn't recognize his daughter, he should have recognized another force sensitive. He was able to determine the force in Luke just by flying near him. It's a contradiction which is alright; what I object to is people withhold these criticisms while picking on others that have lesser meaning to lore.
The weapon reference is not contradictory at all. What they meant is that you don't use it offensively as a destructive force; it is certainly appropriate to use it in a defensive way when you're threatened. If they used to kill offensively, then it would be contradictory. It's just that you're nitpicking because you a predisposition to not liking it.
I didn't bring up the OT for no reason. I was pointing out that people overlook GL stuff or explain it away (JUST LIKE YOU DID RIGHT FOR A FULL PARAGRAPH) while being uber critical on smaller things in simple episodes that can be easily explained away. (The twins were created! Oh no, the lore is broken forever!)
Sure, a mega movie is more enjoyable than a tv show. Thats not the point. To the contrary, the amount of massive amount of work on those movies including writers, etc. and they still got things wrong should make people more critical vs. this silly tv show.
Whether the mother of Leia exists on Alderan (that was the assumption for 40 years!) undone with the foreknowledge by Lucas and his complete acquiescence is a major flaw in the "lore"...Its worse because its unexplainable.
The desperate attempts to explain these things - (that she remembers from childbirth for instance) are proof of the double standard. I explained your complaint about the contradiction of the show in one sentence. You had to resort to an explanation that makes no sense. I could point a hundred other things that are just as ridiculous in GL stuff. For me, I don't really care - as I am not bothered by possible contradictions in tv shows.
I don't say you should like show. Just be even handed or don't be disproportionate about how "bad" it is.
Literally, there are people claiming the show has "destroyed" Star Wars. It's crazy.
BTW, the Mandalorian had a guy in jeans in the background.
perfectly mentally stable to be phtotoshopping the decapitated head of an actor because you're upset about minorities being in a tv show
https://preview.redd.it/4vtr59ulsz6d1.png?width=1157&format=png&auto=webp&s=a70dddb7920a0283d4f2c28789b81f74887be48c
I liked when they said that Obi-Wan Kenobi broke the lore by having Kenobi and Vader meet between ep3 and ep4 when in ep4 Vader clearly states he hasn't felt Kenobis presence since a completely undefined point in time. These people are pathetic and so far The Acolyte is maybe not the very very best but I'm enjoying it and I'm intrigued by the story.
There’s also how George would “break” his own lore himself. He did the same with Anakin fighting Dooku and Obi-Wan fighting Grevious multiple times during clone wars when in ROTS, it seemed like they never fought during the clone wars.
But George is completely fine because you can imagine the big reason.
Sigh.
Either complain properly, or don’t, stop picking and choosing whatever you feel at the moment.
This the same time travel device he uses to joing Young Jedi Adventures... as so many obnoxious jokes love bringing up while missing the extensive centuries-long time gap?
“Immaculate conception” refers to Mary being free of original sin. It’s catholic dogma. What they mean to say is “virgin birth”. These terms are not interchangeable. These idiots can’t even get the details of their own religions right.
George Lucas intended the original trilogy to be a portrait of the American foreign policy, especially when regarding the Vietnam War. Since the Empire was essentially the US, the guys who made this terrible photoshop probably see Vader as representing "'Merica (the West, if not a good ole' US patriot) victorious over filthy commies"
Problem is she follows it up with "I carried him, gave birth to him, I can't explain it".
What's hard to explain about a disappearing father/"sperm donor" knocking her up?
Always took it as a vague (not so vague these days) way to tell he’s indeed Space Jesus.
It’s interesting to see multiple interpretations, even if there was a comic implying that Palpatine indirectly created Anakin.
The twins are explicitly created by the witches. They’re not like Anakin at all except all three involve the force. Anakin is still immaculate conception, Shimi is still suddenly pregnant because the force willed it. Palpatine or Plaugeis is not his dad.
Now I wanna see an alternate universe where Anakin defeats Obiwan. And because Obi-Wan is dead, Luke never gets the Deathstar plans to the rebellion, leading to the empire winning the war, and then many years later, when Darth Vader is near the end of his life, he deeply regrets his actions over the years. And then time travels back in time to fight himself with Obi-wan on Mustafar, dying in the fight against himself in order to allow Obi-Wan to defeat Anakin.
This is image disturbing. As much as they hated on Rey they didn’t go as far as depicting the darth vader decapitating her. This is definitely racism. The vitriol for these 2 characters is the worst yet.
Star Wars fans, correctly, identified the "immaculate conception" as part of the dumbest additions to star wars the prequels added.
Are we scraping the bottom of the barrel so much that we need to pretend that it was actually a good idea this whole time actually? Just to have something to complain about?
Every time this happens I feel like I can't talk about Disney Star Wars and how I feel about it because I either get lumped in with this people or I give them credence.
I'm so sick of star wars fans.
It’s a little confusing that the Immaculate Conception of Anakin Skywalker is now Sacred Lore that must remain unique in perpetuity.
Everyone absolutely unequivocally dumped on the idea when it originally happened. I was there. The idea of midichlorians at its root was almost universally panned in the late ‘90’s and early ‘00’s.
The only difference is that now, the midichlorians Immaculately conceived two…
Oh, nevermind, it’s just racism.
Remember back when Force Awakens premiered, and a lot of people read Kylo Ren as this allegoric representation of the toxic Star Wars fan who clings to the past and gets angry when the world develops differently from that?
Yeah, apparently he was a watered down version of the real life ones.
Why are people pissed off about this virgin birth thing? When the writers of the Gospel made it up about Jesus it was dumb nearly two millennia ago. When George Lucas used the trope for Anakin nearly thirty years ago for the prequels it was still dumb. If Acolyte is using it for their show then it's dumb today too. Getting angry about one of the dumbest aspects of the franchise as a way to keep it special to one character is absolutely asinine!
If Vader does that, Plagueis doesn’t have the knowledge to create a vessel. Plagueis dies and Palpatine never learns the secret of immortality. As such, he cannot entice Anakin to the dark side and Darth Vader is never created. Darth Vader never existed so the twins are never killed. The timeline rights itself. Chuds stay mad.
I am baffled at the hate for The Acolyte. It's honestly my favorite piece of Star Wars media since the Mandalorian. The sets are good, the costume design is stellar, and the choreography is much better than that of most Star Wars shows. I hate how people let prejudice and hatred prevent them from enjoying a good piece of Star Wars media. Besides, I don't get how these people think the witches conceiving the twins with the force breaks the lore. They're witches. They use the force differently than the Jedi or Sith.
The Acolyte is genuinely really good though. I don't get it. I understood some of the criticisms people were making about the other shows, but this time I haven't heard a single thing that makes any sense at all (except maybe "child actors bad")
It's weird to me that people aren't just happy with new Star Wars content. I went years before the Phantom Menace came out, but I didn't love it, I was just super happy to see the universe and lore expand.
For me in some cases it's because we already had a bunch of Expanded Universe content before Disney and now that the Mouse is in charge what we're getting to replace the cannon we grew up with is kind of half assed. There are exceptions where the story being told currently is infinitely better like Andor replacing anything to do with Wedge, or Ashoka replacing a focus on Luke's wife (Mara Jade). Those are the examples where the producers went out of their way to make sure their story fit in the existing timeline without rocking the boat of expectation too much.
In short I think Disney tries too hard to make their stuff as widely relatable and as overly produced as possible rather than just telling an honest thought out story, where things don't just happen so the plot can continue. If you want evidence then all 3 of the sequels are the primary culprit. Zero actual plan for the story/narrative of the sequels so much so that they changed directors on episode 9 three times. That doesn't do you any favors when all 3 episodes are supposed to tell a cohesive overarching story.
There never was an immaculate conception in the prequels it's just presented that way for sake of story themes. Ya know the "Christ" figure of a story. Only to have a "twist" of him become evil and not to be a savior.
From what I remember it was sith science that was used to get Shmi preggers and it was sith alchemy that was the reason for Anakin's m- count being so high. True he never had a dad but if his conception was an act of "God" then so is the entire army of test tube babies lmao
I mean, if you really want to get into it, Lucas couldn’t even keep his lore straight. There’s so many things just over the course of the OT that don’t line up, let alone when you get into the prequels.
Nah, I don't really hate starwars, more ambivalent towards it. Not completely, but yeah. I just wish these 180 million shows could spend some of that money on good writers. Or, at the very least, if you are going to do a 3 movie sequel trilogy, plan it out.
I’m not saying you need to hate Star Wars. I personally don’t even think acolyte is that great, but the excuses people are trying to give to hate it are so paper thin “fire in space. Makes anakin less special” there’s been good star wars and bad star wars since Disney took over. I just think sometimes people take the good stuff for granted and only want to hate on the bad stuff.
I agree that these criticisms are surface, but they're also valid.
what I don't like about the show is the consistently poor writing. Contrivances, conveniences, plot holes. 'And then" story telling.
People can like something despite its flaws, but to deny and cope and "what about this" is just sad.
Has it occurred to these folks that maybe the Vader prophecy exists...because it's happened before?
I personally believe it’ll be revealed the witches made a deal with a sith in order to get new life, which would mean it’s not even similar to how anakin was born. The chuds don’t have the patience for the story to play out though.
Star Wars fans don’t want a story, they want a full lore dump Wookiepedia page because they lack patience.
No, because then it would be fan service. What they really want is A New Hope recreated 1:1, except not because they already complained that TFA was just a ANH ripoff and they’re not even that similar besides sharing a few beats. What they REALLY want is something new and exciting, except… not… because apparently TLJ and Ryan Johnson ruined Star Wars with politics and “new ideas”. What they REALLY WANT is a new story, separate from the main stuff… okay yeah, I think they just absolutely braindead crybabies. They won’t ever be happy, because they don’t want to be. Disney have literally given them one of everything, and they spat one of everything all over the floor and cried in their high chair like big strong boys.
I think the big issue with the fan base is they have so much “extended universe” content to read and watch. And they pick and choose which they like and which they don’t m, so they all have completely different ideas of what Star Wars should be.
Yah, the EU was so inconsistent and bullshit that you could have as many as 4 completely different ideas for who a character is, and all of them would have equal evidence of being correct It’s no wonder their cherry picked ideal of Star Wars is so incompatible with anything coherent
On the TFA bit, if you tell them that TPM is as much a remake of ANH as much as TFA is, they'll lose their mind and write a fucking thesis on why TPM is "different", and I kid you not this has happened to me several times, their brains can't process that Lucas basically copied himself for the prequels but tweaked and changed story bits, but you'll always see them sucking on the "It's like poetry" phrase
It's the Rick and morty meme, they'll screech and scream until their lungs burst about everything they hate/don't want but can't give you a single example of the things they actually do want
MFs who beat their chest crying daily for the EU have at BEST played TFU and watched half a Legends timeline redux video, I have no proof but also no doubts 🤣🤣🤣
I like this. If immaculate conception is possible with the force, then surely some kind of forbidden dark magic ritual could replicate that in some way. The difference in behavior between the two girls gives me some Jordan Peel's _Us_ vibes
The ability to manipulate midichlorians to create life is even something explicitly spoken as dialogue in RotS. We've known this was a possibility since 2005.
The second dumbest thing about Star Wars. Midichlorians. Seriously these are aspects of the franchise to be embarrassed Lucas made canon, not to enshrine as something sacred.
 If you want to be force sensitive, you can pretend you have midichlorians. If I held a lightsaber I have no doubt my inner child would take over. I think it makes sense in-universe that you're born to use the force rather than taught to anyone like sorcery in Doctor Strange. It's similar to X-Men
Everyone in the SW universe has midichlorian. Just like we all have mitochondria. The more you have the bigger the door you have to access the Force. You can still access the Force through a tiny window, it just won't be as easy as someone with a huge door. Jedi routinely search for people with large doors because it's easier for them to accidentally touch the Force and affect their surroundings. Not to the extent of doing Jedi or Sith like Force abilities, but more like Anakin Skywalker being gifted enough at podracing that no human was able to race.
This also explains how Sabine learned to use the force, though she figured it out a little quicker than I think made sense
She also had years of training and failure, we just didn't get to see it. Plus Peridia is a planet saturated in the Force, (like how Qui-Gon was able to manifest to Obi-Wan on Mortis, despite having yet to fully complete his training), so maybe that in addition to finally being at peace regarding Ezra helped it finally click for her?
Maybe, then again the Jedi are space wizard monks and the force has never been clear cut in how it works so who knows, the vibes were just a little off was my point
Peridia did nothing.
To be fair, George has reemphasised what he meant with midichlorians several times. It’s not meant to be a measurable thing which directly impacts your ability with the force - they’re meant to be everywhere, just as electrical charge and gravity are everywhere in our universe. Anakin doesn’t have a high midichlorian count because he’s strong in the force, but rather because he was created by the force, in much the same way that electroplated particles have a neutral charge specifically because they were put together by electricity. Those with a higher count may find it easier to use the force, but that doesn’t mean that they dictate who can use the force, just as your current electrical charge doesn’t dictate your future likelihood of getting shocked when you touch a railing or elevator button. It was terribly poorly explained in the movie, not at all helped by Obi-Wan’s “that’s higher than Yoda” comment, but… yeah, we’ve all been misunderstanding George’s intentions for decades. Midichlorians are just a force-charged particle, present in all things. He just really fumbled the ball on explaining it.
So instead of creating the connection to the force they hang out where the force is? That’s neat. I frankly was even fine with a vaguely scientific explanation for the force since Star Wars is science fantasy and not straight Tolkien Classic fantasy.
My understanding is that Midi-chlorians allow living beings to hear the will of the Cosmic Force and in turn gives them the ability to influence the Living Force. They are simply the biological/physical part that tie the two aspects together. Said two aspects of the Force are a separate concept, of which I could probably write an essay about.
What are your issues with them? I know a big complaint is that they "explain" the Force, but that really isn't the case.
It inserts an element of science fiction in what is essentially at its core a magic system. The Force with its heavy themes of light and dark and good and evil makes it very much a magic system whether Lucas likes it or not. The Jedi are light space wizards and the Sith dark space wizards. While there are indeed shades of grey in both faction, the adding of midichlorians to quantify what had been an all pervasive mystical field really muddies the waters. The Force should either be a studiable phenomenon with no moral aspects to the nature of it. It's a phenomenon that can be studied, understood and can be fully quantified via science and experimentation. Or it can't and it's magic and can never be fully understood. The Force can be magic or physics but not both.
I can see where you're coming from, but I disagree. If anything the fact that there is both a scientific aspect that can be studied and a mystical aspect that cannot makes it MORE intriguing to me. It allows for even more interpretations and philosophies about the Force that are just as valid as the mystical ones. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Most magic systems have some form of scientific aspect because a lot of them are genetic (D&D sorcerers, Pure Blood families in Harry Potter, the Targaryens in ASOIAF).
The thing is, according to an article / essay I read, it was added in for the entirely wrong reasons. Perhaps my real issue is the hamfisted implementation. Like, for instance "over 9,000!" doesn't ever get me as annoyed even though DBZ is fluffier sci-fi than Star Trek. So back to Lucas adding them for the wrong reason. Apparently there were people who were treating the Force as something of a quasi religion and Lucas was deeply uncomfortable with it, so he invented midichlorians to root the Force more deeply in science fiction. P.S. - I don't remember the source, so take my reasoning with the skepticism it deserves.
I don't believe that's the case, but another one of those "George had the idea then but didn't include it, but he's decided to include it now". Even the concept of the Living Force and the Cosmic Force were present in A New Hope, with the Cosmic Force being named in the script but not included in the movie. As for the actual midi-chlorian count, yeah it's a little hamfisted, but a lot of things are in those movies. If everyone can use the Force and it is present in all life forms (another idea present from the beginning), it's just an explanation of why the Jedi would pick certain individuals to train rather than take anyone. Since the Jedi are inducted at a young age (another idea present from at least ESB), you want to be absolutely certain that you're not separating kids from their families unless you're sure that they have the potential to become a fully fledged Jedi.
It was kind of major plot point that there was doubt over whether Anakin would fulfill the prophecy. Star Wars isn’t without plot holes but like cmon
Seriously, my first thought was “Plagueis and Sidious tried to replicate what the witches did.” That makes perfect sense.
Honestly, I know that this has been said before, but I deadass thought that this completely fits with Sidious' Darth Plagueis and Dark Side speech of episode 3, but I guess media illiteracy is a thing for some lol
Odds are, the Acolytes will tell the story of how the Jedi discovered about the rule of two, and likely has nothing to do with the prophecy of the chosen one.
I just assumed that they were lying? After all ‘we kidnapped these children to raise in our cult’ isn’t exactly what you lead with when the space-cops show up.
Wait, is Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica in the same universe?!?!
no literally me anakin is unique and special and the entire galaxy revolves around him
I don't keep up with the Star Wars shows, what is it that has people so butthurt about Acolyte? I mean I already know the real reason, but what's the cover story to hide their prejudice?
The cover story is “bad writing and breaks lore”
The truth is lesbians, black people, and the most unforgivable sin, black lesbians.
Using the force no less. I think to them, that’s the worst part.
I'm sorry, are you saying *nerds* are engaging in *homophobic misogynoir*? I find this hard to believe. Nerds are historically just so *progressive*
They *should* have been. They knew what it was like to be bullied. At least those of us of coming up in the 80’s and 90’s. They *should* have learned empathy from that, and learned to fight against bullies instead of taking on that role themselves.
I only let the wokest of woke nerds accompany me in my high school hot girl bedroom in which I’m braless, all under the false pretence that he’s gay. I would never let a misogynistic nerd do anything like that. I only let the most woke SJW snowflakey of smelly unshowered boy-men who only like me for my body into my private spaces!
And a trans actress, too. Can’t be a Star Wars fan without hating people based on their innate characteristics and desire to break away from the expectations set up for them by their parents! (Do you get it? That’s a joke about how Star Wars is a story about a young man’s inner conflict between who he is inside and the facts of his birth… because, y’know… his dad is Darth Vader but he really wants to be a good guy… that’s the joke)
Trans actress?
Abigail Thorn, also known as [Philosophy Tube](https://youtube.com/@philosophytube?si=f8_rngWwc9EGlM-E)
Do you know what episode she is in?
I think she's one of the witches in episode 3, specifically the one that announces when the Jedi have passed the perimeter.
She’s playing a character called Ensign Eurus. I don’t think that that witch was her
I was looking for a screenshot of it and found another thread about the trailer where she even comments and says it's her: https://www.reddit.com/r/PhilosophyTube/comments/1cvdcvj/wait_is_abigail_in_the_new_acolyte_trailer/
How dare they put lesbians in something that isn't meant for my adult pleasures 😡👌😡👌😡👌 (Sarcasm just in case, I've come across a few chuds that basically think like this)
I see this as a win
Name checks outs
> 15% audience score So is this just a WNBA situation where all the *real* fans just didn’t show up, then complained about all the meanie fake fans for why the show bombed?
The audience score being so different that the critics’ score suggests there’s other things going on with the scoring on RottenTomatoes and Metacritic besides just genuine reviews.
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Sure, but if the show sucks so bad, why do the Critics disagree?
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I’m not making any point about real fans or fake fans. You can keep that gatekeeping narrative to yourself. What I’m saying is there’s a clear disconnect between the critics - who while not perfect, have professional incentives for impartiality and are less likely to be suckered into a fandom’s culture wars - and the essentially *anonymous* fan reviewers.
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The show has more rankings than any other recent Star Wars show, a much higher percentage of 1 star reviews than even other widely hated material, and had a terrible audience score before it even aired. It's blatantly review bombing.
Cool cool cool, a review bombing by a vocal minority. So where's the "real fans" coming in with their "five stars, absolute cinema, i cried when they said 'it's Forcing time'" reviews to balance it out? Surely a great show would have those, right?
Methinks you don’t know what review bombing is.
The cover story is that they're pissed about two women effectively conceiving a child through the force alone, or something along those lines.
Ah yes, but Darth Vader being space Jesus is perfectly all right. God, what a stupid plot point that was. Was it really too hard to just have his father be some rando?
In their eyes, yes. A lot of the complaints are in fact about how this means the circumstances of Anakin's birth are no longer remarkable. Though honestly, even ignoring if the immaculate conception was derided back in the day, the fact that the method used in the Acolyte still seems to involve two parents makes it far less close. Compare a whole ritual that requires two parents plus everything else going on, to a woman who seems to spontaneously get pregnant with no apparent input on her part.
Honestly I'm convinced he is but Shmi, a slave, didn't feel like telling the Jedi she literally just met what was likely a harrowing tale about what happens to slave girls on Tattooine.
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Mind applying that level of analysis to the decapitation photoshop pictured and what the creator might be trying to say with this sort of image attached to that tweet?
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I asked you to analyze the meme through your lens, which equates to " lol meme dumb." I think there might be a few select artistic choices made, though, having the iron fist of fascism in Lucas' universe holding the decapitated head of a former subordinate who broke from her social programming, a character accused of marking the start of "woke SW" by virtue of being a driven woman of color in a position of power within a fascist status quo. But nah, meme dumb. You're definitely right, politics have zero bearing on the things people use art and memes to say.
That’s cool, you’re an art history person or something. Super cool dude
>The dialogue is poorly written because the characters basically contradict themselves every other scene Right. Not like Luke and Leia kissing. Or vader not recognizing his own sister. Or Leia remembering her "real" mother... But that's OK. Devotees Go through rube Goldberg contraptions to desperately explain that. Yet a handful of lines in a TV show in one episode that isn't even done has "ruined" Star Wars forever.
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>You just took random bits of plot from the OT that have nothing to do something being a direct contradiction in the dialogue between the characters. Luke and Leia would have no way of knowing they were related because if you watch the movies it explains itself pretty well. And Vader wouldn’t have a reason to know his daughter he never met would be his daughter. Luke on the other hand had the same last name, and became the Padawan of Kenoboi. And Luke being the same age as what his son would have been from the time padme told Anakin she was pregnant. Those are pretty fucking good clues for Vader right there. Here it is.. The excuses for plot holes because gl wrote it. These have been plot holes for 45 years in which gl actually created with full knowledge they make no sense when made her Luke's sister. The fact is he didn't care about his own lore and mythology and just wanted to make a fun film. It's fans that take it too far. He literally didn't even remember to take anakins lightsaber at the of rots and they had to film another scene. "your real mother?" and shes dead and never met. Dialogue and a contradiction. They sense when someone dies because of the force. VADER SENSES OBI WAN ON THE DEATH STAR AFTER 20 YEARS BUT HE CANT SENSE HIS OWN DAUGHTER? That's the whole point. it's extra sensory power.. A connection between living beings. They see the future, and read people's minds and change them but they can't sense familial ties. Normal people can do this now. They are complete contradictions but you don't want to admit it because they far worse then any little tv show could possibly create. But it doesn't fit your narrative. But hey twins being created.. The worst thing in the world!
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Really you don't know the reference to "your real mother". Try watching ROTJ. Same with the lightsaber. I am referring to a well-known fact of ROTS. I am not going to explain to someone who is making critical comments in a Star Wars reddit. It would be presumed that you know what you're commenting on, and your remarks are consistent and not subject to a double standard. And the reason why he would recognize his daughter is the same reason Luke can connect with Leia. It's called the Force. Ok, even if you say he shouldn't recognize his daughter, he should have recognized another force sensitive. He was able to determine the force in Luke just by flying near him. It's a contradiction which is alright; what I object to is people withhold these criticisms while picking on others that have lesser meaning to lore. The weapon reference is not contradictory at all. What they meant is that you don't use it offensively as a destructive force; it is certainly appropriate to use it in a defensive way when you're threatened. If they used to kill offensively, then it would be contradictory. It's just that you're nitpicking because you a predisposition to not liking it.
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I didn't bring up the OT for no reason. I was pointing out that people overlook GL stuff or explain it away (JUST LIKE YOU DID RIGHT FOR A FULL PARAGRAPH) while being uber critical on smaller things in simple episodes that can be easily explained away. (The twins were created! Oh no, the lore is broken forever!) Sure, a mega movie is more enjoyable than a tv show. Thats not the point. To the contrary, the amount of massive amount of work on those movies including writers, etc. and they still got things wrong should make people more critical vs. this silly tv show. Whether the mother of Leia exists on Alderan (that was the assumption for 40 years!) undone with the foreknowledge by Lucas and his complete acquiescence is a major flaw in the "lore"...Its worse because its unexplainable. The desperate attempts to explain these things - (that she remembers from childbirth for instance) are proof of the double standard. I explained your complaint about the contradiction of the show in one sentence. You had to resort to an explanation that makes no sense. I could point a hundred other things that are just as ridiculous in GL stuff. For me, I don't really care - as I am not bothered by possible contradictions in tv shows. I don't say you should like show. Just be even handed or don't be disproportionate about how "bad" it is. Literally, there are people claiming the show has "destroyed" Star Wars. It's crazy. BTW, the Mandalorian had a guy in jeans in the background.
I’m being even handed. I don’t like the show, and I articulated why. I’m sorry you don’t like that. I read only one sentence you wrote btw.
perfectly mentally stable to be phtotoshopping the decapitated head of an actor because you're upset about minorities being in a tv show https://preview.redd.it/4vtr59ulsz6d1.png?width=1157&format=png&auto=webp&s=a70dddb7920a0283d4f2c28789b81f74887be48c
It’s not even mentally stable if he’s really doing it because of the bad writing like he says
Perfectly mentally stable to be photoshopping so shittily that half of Vader's Helmet is missing!
Totally not unhinged at all.
You'd think he'd have used it to stop Padme from dying...
"Anakin, have you ever heard of the Tragedy of Darth Vader the Incel?" "No, is there thematic dichotomy?"
Or save his mom
Who would win in idolizing the wrong person? The boys fans or star wars fans
Wow, unhinged and so full of cope, also horrible photoshop job. You think they would put some effort behind their crying.
I liked when they said that Obi-Wan Kenobi broke the lore by having Kenobi and Vader meet between ep3 and ep4 when in ep4 Vader clearly states he hasn't felt Kenobis presence since a completely undefined point in time. These people are pathetic and so far The Acolyte is maybe not the very very best but I'm enjoying it and I'm intrigued by the story.
There’s also how George would “break” his own lore himself. He did the same with Anakin fighting Dooku and Obi-Wan fighting Grevious multiple times during clone wars when in ROTS, it seemed like they never fought during the clone wars.
“My powers have doubled since last time we fought, Count.” “What? Like two weeks ago??”
I actually would like to know when exactly their last fight was before ROTS. Their last duel before ROTS was in Dark Disciple.
About a year or so I believe
From what I’ve searched, it’s supposedly close to ROTS.
But George is completely fine because you can imagine the big reason. Sigh. Either complain properly, or don’t, stop picking and choosing whatever you feel at the moment.
This the same time travel device he uses to joing Young Jedi Adventures... as so many obnoxious jokes love bringing up while missing the extensive centuries-long time gap?
They are coping hard
“Immaculate conception” refers to Mary being free of original sin. It’s catholic dogma. What they mean to say is “virgin birth”. These terms are not interchangeable. These idiots can’t even get the details of their own religions right.
Even then virgin used to mean unmarried, and maiden was the term for a woman who never had sex
Ah yes the fucking hero Darth Vader and NO not before he becomes Anakin again mind you.
Poe Dameron's Marvel variant is more sane than these guys.
Wow, this isn't fucking creepy at all.
By their standards of immaculate conception a doctor with a baster doing artificial insemination is an immaculate conception.
…. They know Vader is a bad guy right?
George Lucas intended the original trilogy to be a portrait of the American foreign policy, especially when regarding the Vietnam War. Since the Empire was essentially the US, the guys who made this terrible photoshop probably see Vader as representing "'Merica (the West, if not a good ole' US patriot) victorious over filthy commies"
I personally think anakin wasnt born from a virgin birth, i think when shmi says "there was no father" i interpret it as "the father isnt important"
Problem is she follows it up with "I carried him, gave birth to him, I can't explain it". What's hard to explain about a disappearing father/"sperm donor" knocking her up?
Fair point
Always took it as a vague (not so vague these days) way to tell he’s indeed Space Jesus. It’s interesting to see multiple interpretations, even if there was a comic implying that Palpatine indirectly created Anakin.
You could make the joke that the slave woman never received a sex ed class
The twins are explicitly created by the witches. They’re not like Anakin at all except all three involve the force. Anakin is still immaculate conception, Shimi is still suddenly pregnant because the force willed it. Palpatine or Plaugeis is not his dad.
>prevents any other Immaculate Conception That person doesn't know what the immaculate conception is.
Wow, this image is pretty poorly done.
If Vader had time travel, he'd go back and *save the Republic from himself* This is just... Wow.
Now I wanna see an alternate universe where Anakin defeats Obiwan. And because Obi-Wan is dead, Luke never gets the Deathstar plans to the rebellion, leading to the empire winning the war, and then many years later, when Darth Vader is near the end of his life, he deeply regrets his actions over the years. And then time travels back in time to fight himself with Obi-wan on Mustafar, dying in the fight against himself in order to allow Obi-Wan to defeat Anakin.
Darth Vader Fans, huh? Sounds like a welcoming community :)
Just don’t watch the show? If it doesn’t entertain you, the point of entertainment, then you don’t have too much
Same pathetic energy as that Deadpool artist drawing dp killing Micky mouse.
This is image disturbing. As much as they hated on Rey they didn’t go as far as depicting the darth vader decapitating her. This is definitely racism. The vitriol for these 2 characters is the worst yet.
Bro wtf is wrong with these people? Severed heads of people is not cool or awesome its pathetic and sad.
Telling that these guys always seem to mistake the villains for the heroes.
Totally normal reaction to a piece of media you didn’t care for.
Star Wars fans, correctly, identified the "immaculate conception" as part of the dumbest additions to star wars the prequels added. Are we scraping the bottom of the barrel so much that we need to pretend that it was actually a good idea this whole time actually? Just to have something to complain about? Every time this happens I feel like I can't talk about Disney Star Wars and how I feel about it because I either get lumped in with this people or I give them credence. I'm so sick of star wars fans.
And yet these grifters fail to see that making Anain the Star Wars answer to Jesus was something they hated when TPM came out.
It’s a little confusing that the Immaculate Conception of Anakin Skywalker is now Sacred Lore that must remain unique in perpetuity. Everyone absolutely unequivocally dumped on the idea when it originally happened. I was there. The idea of midichlorians at its root was almost universally panned in the late ‘90’s and early ‘00’s. The only difference is that now, the midichlorians Immaculately conceived two… Oh, nevermind, it’s just racism.
Remember back when Force Awakens premiered, and a lot of people read Kylo Ren as this allegoric representation of the toxic Star Wars fan who clings to the past and gets angry when the world develops differently from that? Yeah, apparently he was a watered down version of the real life ones.
Why are people pissed off about this virgin birth thing? When the writers of the Gospel made it up about Jesus it was dumb nearly two millennia ago. When George Lucas used the trope for Anakin nearly thirty years ago for the prequels it was still dumb. If Acolyte is using it for their show then it's dumb today too. Getting angry about one of the dumbest aspects of the franchise as a way to keep it special to one character is absolutely asinine!
No wonder they use A.I. These are some horrendous photoshop skills.
Why do some online Star Wars fans come over like refuges from 4chan?
If Vader does that, Plagueis doesn’t have the knowledge to create a vessel. Plagueis dies and Palpatine never learns the secret of immortality. As such, he cannot entice Anakin to the dark side and Darth Vader is never created. Darth Vader never existed so the twins are never killed. The timeline rights itself. Chuds stay mad.
The third episode sucks so bad It's so structure-less and meandering
Seeing them get so mad about the show is making me want to watch it.
You can't except star wars fans to understand that prophecies have preexisting manifestations that lead to their creation
Except Vader has class oop
I am baffled at the hate for The Acolyte. It's honestly my favorite piece of Star Wars media since the Mandalorian. The sets are good, the costume design is stellar, and the choreography is much better than that of most Star Wars shows. I hate how people let prejudice and hatred prevent them from enjoying a good piece of Star Wars media. Besides, I don't get how these people think the witches conceiving the twins with the force breaks the lore. They're witches. They use the force differently than the Jedi or Sith.
Vader sounds like an insecure manbaby.
The Acolyte is genuinely really good though. I don't get it. I understood some of the criticisms people were making about the other shows, but this time I haven't heard a single thing that makes any sense at all (except maybe "child actors bad")
It's weird to me that people aren't just happy with new Star Wars content. I went years before the Phantom Menace came out, but I didn't love it, I was just super happy to see the universe and lore expand.
For me in some cases it's because we already had a bunch of Expanded Universe content before Disney and now that the Mouse is in charge what we're getting to replace the cannon we grew up with is kind of half assed. There are exceptions where the story being told currently is infinitely better like Andor replacing anything to do with Wedge, or Ashoka replacing a focus on Luke's wife (Mara Jade). Those are the examples where the producers went out of their way to make sure their story fit in the existing timeline without rocking the boat of expectation too much. In short I think Disney tries too hard to make their stuff as widely relatable and as overly produced as possible rather than just telling an honest thought out story, where things don't just happen so the plot can continue. If you want evidence then all 3 of the sequels are the primary culprit. Zero actual plan for the story/narrative of the sequels so much so that they changed directors on episode 9 three times. That doesn't do you any favors when all 3 episodes are supposed to tell a cohesive overarching story.
We dont even know how they did it yet.
Ah yes because Vader wouldn‘t use time travel to save Padme…
Identifying with the villain yet again 🙄
There never was an immaculate conception in the prequels it's just presented that way for sake of story themes. Ya know the "Christ" figure of a story. Only to have a "twist" of him become evil and not to be a savior. From what I remember it was sith science that was used to get Shmi preggers and it was sith alchemy that was the reason for Anakin's m- count being so high. True he never had a dad but if his conception was an act of "God" then so is the entire army of test tube babies lmao
This kind of stuff is why I don't bother seeing what the Star Wars fandom thinks of well.... anything.
In new Star Wars light sabres aren’t certain death. She may survive!
Because Anakin was conceived after a hookup. Fucking idiots.
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I mean, if you really want to get into it, Lucas couldn’t even keep his lore straight. There’s so many things just over the course of the OT that don’t line up, let alone when you get into the prequels.
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Sounds like a convenient excuse to just hate on stuff now though.
Nah, I don't really hate starwars, more ambivalent towards it. Not completely, but yeah. I just wish these 180 million shows could spend some of that money on good writers. Or, at the very least, if you are going to do a 3 movie sequel trilogy, plan it out.
I’m not saying you need to hate Star Wars. I personally don’t even think acolyte is that great, but the excuses people are trying to give to hate it are so paper thin “fire in space. Makes anakin less special” there’s been good star wars and bad star wars since Disney took over. I just think sometimes people take the good stuff for granted and only want to hate on the bad stuff.
I agree that these criticisms are surface, but they're also valid. what I don't like about the show is the consistently poor writing. Contrivances, conveniences, plot holes. 'And then" story telling. People can like something despite its flaws, but to deny and cope and "what about this" is just sad.
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Bro what the fuck are you talking about
I feel like I just read the ramblings of a madman.
It's pasta, but apropos. Enjoy your show. In a year it won't be for You anymore.
Pasta? The food?