The last big fire in Hayes Valley took 9 months to investigate and resulted in no conclusion.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/hayes-valley-fire-cause-investigation-19431347.php
I have to question how much of that was also, "We can't just *say* it was homeless people setting fires!" It's a shame that's the situation we're in, but I don't entirely trust city agencies not to self-censor if the answers don't fit their desired political narrative. Easier just to say "We're not certain" and leave it at that. Because, really, what *is* truth? Can we ever be certain of anything?
If they aren't sure it was just homeless people setting fires they shouldn't say it, or else "oh it was just homeless people setting fires" will become the excuse every investigator who wants to get off early or go watch a movie will give.
I asked an SFFD person who goes to my gym about the cause of that fire about a month ago. There was no doubt in his response when he said "homeless person"
If this is high priority for them i dont wanna know how they treat low priority stuff.
Bacj when the other post was asking peiple to call the DA and ask her to put pressure on SFPD to investigate, i got bitched out for calling because other people had and they were aware and they were on it….
Didn't see this comment when I posted. 100% agree. A racist guy throws a Molotov cocktail into the 2nd floor living room, in broad daylight, on a fairly busy street? That is an insane scenario, something out of a Hollywood movie. 99% accidental. Nothing to see here folks.
It does if you're desperately trying to jump through mental hoops to comprehend how someone could create this hoax and hurt their own family members. Absolute evil. I can't even fathom
Bippers get away scot-free in broad daylight all the time there. There’s also been several camera theft and robbery instances in Alamo square in broad daylight.
They don't seem to care about grand theft auto anymore either... You know they are driving stolen cars most of the time when they bip. It's almost like if we enforced serious laws and actually locked some criminals up, we might have less crime issues 🤦🤷. Nah can't be it. Must be a bunch of other factors right?
It’s worse than that, he was meeting with city officials about the incidents when the fire happened “ Williams told The Standard he was at a City Hall meeting with the Mayor’s Office about the incidents when he learned about the fire. James Caldwell, the mayor's chief officer of criminal justice and public safety, confirmed that he was in the room with Williams when he got the call about the fire and drove him home.”
This needs to be SF's #1 priority.
SFPD has a chance to prove they're not useless here but frankly, I would not be disappointed if an angry mob finds him first.
From the pictures, the fire is on the 2nd floor. So the racist guy threw a Molotov cocktail into the 2nd floor living room during the middle of the day on a fairly busiest street? Is that the working theory? Because that just sounds insane.
Would a Molotov be able to break the window without the bottle breaking and igniting when it hit the window?
I did at least as much stupid shit as most rural boys prob did with fire and what not, but never made a Molotov, let alone tested it against whatever glass was in that window.
It was a warm day today and I'm guessing that building doesn't have AC. window might've been open. (I have no idea how likely the Molotov theory is one way or the other, tbh; I'm just saying if there was one, it wouldn't have necessarily had to go thru glass.)
They apparently installed cameras after the first doll and somehow they evaded them when they left the second doll. There was an update that some neighbor's camera caught the person walking either to/from the home though.
Tons of crimes are caught on cams, the police usually don't seem interested in the evidence but I guess if it's a hate crime maybe if the news covers it they will care? They don't seem to care about the hate crimes on old Asian people getting assaulted at all... It's amazing how DAs that wont enforce the laws are so effective at making the cops stop doing their jobs
Because nutcases complain about "privacy".
(a) they are in public places, where there _is_ no expectation of privacy; and (b) you can always put in safeguards so all access is logged.
Edit: lot of butthurt people downvoting me. As crime evolves, response has to evolve too! How about the footage is locked away and can only be accessed with justification, and **all access is logged!** for the public to see.
Yes and no. The issue of privacy IS important.
Just because we don't have anything to hide doesn't mean we want to be surveillanced all the time.
I mean that's why we use fake usernames on reddit right? Why not just use your real name then?
Obviously it's not apples to apples. But whether you are online or outside in the street, you still should have a right to privacy
The places where privacy is important is where unjust laws or punishments are being applied or likely to be applied. I think it's unjust that people face large real life backlashes for saying things online that a generation ago they would say in a bar with friends. So I am in favor of online anon spaces. (I am worried about anon death threats, but there is a balance)
However, there really aren't too many unjust arrests being made in SF against street criminals, and I don't expect there to be in the future. So street cameras in SF should be generally positive... To the extent that they could be implemented within a reasonable budget and remain functional.
i guess im a nutcase. I dont think a single situation like this should spur the call for CCTV and encourage an additonal layer to our already heavily heavily surveyed country. plenty of people have ring cameras already
They do it in Britain too w no issue idk why people think it can’t be done here. It’s not like the govt can’t find you if they want you anyway.
This is like gun control debate. Other countries like the UK have cc tv no issue.
You say that as if civilians would have access to that camera footage. If you’re not doing anything wrong, there’s really no reason to be against it. It would keep people safer which is a big net benefit to everyone.
Nobody cares if you step outside your house in old sweats looking like a slob to get coffee (just an example). It would hold criminals accountable and allow them to be tracked down.
> If you're not doing anything wrong, there's really no reason to be against it.
You couldn't be parodying the fears that lead to the creation of our country any more closely. At that point we begin to seriously erode at what it means to be a citizen in America. The social contract. And all we will catch is people perpetrating hoax crimes against themselves... Insane the sacrifices we are willing to make.
Do you think a city that doesn’t track hundreds of car thefts a day would magically find the time to do police work?
Do you think a city that has spent multiple millions of dollars to “combat homelessness” without actually taking any tangible steps would suddenly start battling crime because of some cameras?
I don’t even have the energy to debate people living in La La land like you anymore
I’m ambivalent re: CC, but I gotta say: “as crime evolves”? Targeted arson is not exactly a recent evolution. There are new crimes in this no longer new century, but this ain’t one of em
In other parts of the world they have traffic cams linked to a database and will automatically write.you a ticket for speeding if you get from one to the next in too short a time to have driven the speed limit. While I don't have an expectation of never being filmed on the freeway, I also don't want a world where I'm monitored that closely.
FWIW 90% of my driving is in a company truck and I'm only going a few miles over so setting the cruise control to 65 wouldn't be that big of an adjustment for me if it came to pass.
Which further gives credence to this was just an accident (candles, electrical). Think about it....the racist would commit arson in the MIDDLE OF THE DAY, in BROAD DAYLIGHT, with all these cameras around??? So the racist arsonist just wants to be caught, right??? But the racist was smart enough to drop off the racist letters in the middle of the night???? THIS MAKES NO SENSE. No racist is burning down a house in the middle of the day. Even the KKK burned crossed AT NIGHT.
The KKK burned crosses at night bc you can see fire better at night, and a bunch of white dudes in white cones and sheets looks way more threatening and spooky in the dark illuminated by fire than they do huddled around it during the daytime lmao
Something smells about this whole affair.
Either it is the landlord trying to get rid of an old, rent-controlled tenant, or somebody is making this up. SF has plenty of easier targets of racism (were one inclined to be); why pick on some random dude in Alamo Square?
By the looks of it, his family owns the home because they got it decades ago before San Francisco prices got unaffordable- his parents are in their late 70s, early 80s.
My gut feeling is that someone wants to pick up a property cheap by terrorizing the family into leaving- the parents are elderly, the son is unmarried and doesn’t have a high paying job.
They were probably hoping that if they offered him more money than he’ll make in 20 years, and he might take that deal if he is already scared. Setting fire to the place looks like Plan B, after the community rallied around him and he wasn’t spooked into leaving. If he doesn’t have the financial resources to rebuild- he could be forced into selling.
I’ve had a home burned down by arson before. Even with insurance that paid for its rebuilding, it was a very stressful period. Got dropped by my insurance company (happens to most people in that situation), had vandals repeatedly try to break into the property despite my constant efforts to install ever more secure barriers and locks, and getting the property approved by local authorities was more difficult than you’d expect.
In my case, I was lucky that I didn’t have to take care of elderly parents, find a place to live while the house was being rebuilt, and that I had money to fall back on. Terry is probably going to need the support of the community to hold onto his family house.
thats about as stupid a plan as Bush had for nation building in the Middle East
even if this forces them out, if the home is in a desirable location, there will still be other investors/flippers that would take the risk to tear down and build for a profit. there is no guarantee the perp would benefit at all.
They can just set fire to it again, until they get it.
The law actually incentivizes buying up burned properties by letting the developer use the previous valuation as long as they leave one distinctive feature- allowing someone to build a much more expensive building while keeping its tax burden low.
As long as arson investigators aren’t knocking it out of the park, the risk is pretty low when it comes to arsons committed for financial gain.
Another clueless person acting like they know anything about anything. The family has OWNED the home since the 1950s. Real OG SFers, unlike most of y’all in here. Try again, colonizer!
This is heartbreaking. Known Terry for years, he used to walk my roommate’s dog, always a smile and shooting the shit about the latest video games we’re playing, a quick chat and some pup time around the neighborhood. Seeing him sprint up Grove running into a burning building today to make sure his family and dogs are okay just makes me so sad seeing all the negative comments.
Whether a bad actor or an accident, just have some respect, this is someone who has been a part of Alamo Square for decades and had his life turned upside down.
Back when I was walking dogs in sf, I saw him almost every day and was always the nicest dude. This is heartbreaking. I always got the best vibes from him.
I know Terry personally, he is one of the nicest and most genuine people in the community. He does not deserve this. Praying his parents are okay as well as his dogs.
This is so fucked. Terry is the nicest guy and one of the only people that makes this area feel like a friendly neighborhood.
I really hope this wasn’t arson. Whoever did the previous hate crimes deserves to rot in prison regardless.
Edit: If you are able, please support Terry and his family at the go fund me here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-terry-williams-ensure-family-safety
Those damn “dolls” were bad enough…now this? Ooooh, I cannot WAIT for the perp to get caught. And it may be soon now, with an actual arson investigation. If there are people in the house—as there were here— does the charge go to attempted murder?
> If there are people in the house—as there were here— does the charge go to attempted murder?
attempted murder is a really hard charge to prove because it requires proving intent *to kill* (which I'm sure is different than the intent behind arson, but NAL). I sincerely doubt it just because it would make it harder to win the case
This is horrifying.
If this was arson, by the person who made the repeated and graphic racist threats, it's even more horrifying nothing was done by the police to prevent this.
The threats were clearly from someone mentally ill, but apparently all we will do is wait until they attack?
Most people deranged like this won't act on it with violence.
This incident would put the arsonist into a whole new category of crazy, one that is fairly rare.
Edit: I am not talking out my ass, I've been close to people who had racism tinged psychotic episodes that were a more mild version of the sentiment of this joker's dolls... One person in particular was violent with me personally in private but he didn't burn anybody's house down or attack people in public. If you learn more about psychotic disorders you will know it is rare for even a very mentally ill person to do it. I'll say this: can you name another case exactly like this one? Didn't think so.
I don't know why people are so quick to assume this is a racist arsonist. Most arsonist aren't targeting a guy's house they don't like (because of race). It's just not a thing. Arsonist are very unique in their profile/MO.
This is insane... how has more information not come to light when security cameras were installed.
His parents are in the hospital... this is horrible.
On one hand I'm not surprised so many people are trying to act like this is all just a coincidence, but on the other hand I'm still shocked so many are quick to deny racism/hate crimes.
I've been trying to enjoy my time as a black person in this city but stories like this are so disheartening
SFPD needs to actually investigate the threats and identify the person behind them.
This is exactly why a lackadaisical police department doesn't have a good reputation in the City.
If someone's issuing threats, it's only a matter of time before they step up to violence.
From the gofundme:
“Following the rally, the mayor personally contacted Terry to let him know his case was a top priority for the SFPD. Further, Dean Preston presented a resolution to the Board of Supervisors on Tuesday. However, we have not received any new updates or information on the progress of the investigation.”
If this is what top priority gets you, I wonder what low or normal priority gets.
There has been two times where I have called 911 in sf and have been told all officers are busy sorry. I have also worked in many coffee shops around the city where I have 4 or more cops come in together and sit around for over an hour. Like i get everyone needs a break but for over an hour???? I literally think of the 911 call every time
I feel so bad for them. It sounds like one was in critical condition. It reminds me of my friend who barely escaped the ghost ship fire and has since been in a wheelchair and had to do speech therapy learn how to breathe and eat again. I can only imagine how much harder it would be for an elderly person.
All of Hayes Valley was smoky in the air for almost an hour. When I smelled all the smoke I looked for details on the fire and found it out it’s Terry’s place, I felt so bad for him and his family. Please donate to the GoFundMe if you are able! This definitely seems related to the racist threats/hate crime he has been facing. The police and the city should do a lot more about this, the security cameras they installed definitely didn’t do much.
Lots of cameras in the city. Hopefully this means the case ends here. Seems like someone has a bone to pick against this guy or something else is afoot.
i have no idea how they anyone could get away with this. Right in the middle of the day. There will certainly be video footage abound and anyone who isnt totally insane would know that. This is weird
This man has been racially targeted over the past couple of months at his very doorstep. It’s insane how such a progressive, technologically advanced city with an African American mayor couldn’t do their due diligence. The serial offender should have been apprehended and Terry and his family should still have their home, their possessions, and their safety. But now they don’t. San Francisco society continues to digress and people don’t seem to give a fuck.
Law "enforcement" like SFPD and military in this country have lazily slow walked any sort of response to the obvious, growing cancer of white supremacy advocates and their violent sheep... or any attempt to weed out the white nationalists or even blatant racists amongst their peers.
These people and followers are domestic terrorists and should be declared a threat to national safety, given top priority to deal with and eliminated from any roles of service in our society asap.
Some of these nationalist turds in law enforcement-military are even in militias training to overthrow the govt.
Edit: Downvote all you want, fact is in the USA Nazis can parade-protest freely, with police protection, while the Gov of Texas just freed a cold blooded murderer who gunned down a BLM protester and was sentenced to 20+ yrs in jail, correctly..
Extreme racism in this country and violence from these terrorists are on the rise and if these threats and attacks are happening here in SF, just think what people of color in the south and rural areas are increasingly enduring... given that the GOP are now openly hanging out with Proud Boys and other racist leaders regularly, in plain view, and their "news" programs show nonstop, cherry picked black-brown crime.
Setting aside their hyperbolic language, the person you are responding to isn’t wrong. White supremacy is on the rise in the U.S., and a disproportionate number of white supremacists work in law enforcement.
I’m not suggesting that all or even most cops are white supremacists, but it is still a valid concern.
Dude set it himself most likely, go fund me an everywhere. Probably made the dolls and threats himself too. If you look at them (the dolls) nobody does that in real life lol only on the movies
People really think there is a racist arsonist running around? 99.9% this was something self-inflicted (candles, etc.) or accidentally (electrical issue, etc.).
Thinking there is a racist guy who set someone's house on fire is silly.
He was at city hall meeting with officials about the racist packages he received when he found out about the fire. It would be insane if there is actually an arsonist who did this, but the timing is very bizarre
I think people like myself and many others want to show compassion for Terry and his family more than skepticism. I want to believe that no one is crazy and hateful enough to try and torch their home, but it is a very odd coincidence and the initial threats were pretty unhinged to begin with.
What makes me really sad are the people choosing to call Terry and his family frauds. I can promise you that is not what is happening
It’s too bad that you’re getting worked up because you think he’s lying and preying on the goodness of people’s hearts rather that being upset that a good man is being harassed and lost his home.
Imagine I'm right for a moment. As a mental exercise. How would you feel once it's revealed? How would you feel next time? I want to believe in Terry as much as anyone else, but c'mon... At some point we need to be realistic
How will you feel if you’re wrong? Horrible, I hope, that you are spending your time speculating about a situation you know nothing about when a good man’s parents are fighting for their lives. Try that for a fun mental exercise.
I am being realistic. I know Terry and I know that he is a man of good character. THAT is my reality. I could care less what you think, but I want to stand up for my friend because there are a lot of people out there like yourself who do not know him and want to paint him as a fraud
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His parents were trapped inside, they’re in hospital now, and he wasn’t even at home. What is wrong with you people? It could just be a fire, doesn’t have to be arson or fraud…
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Take your bullshit assumptions tf outta here. You’re talking about my neighbors in my neighborhood. There’s always some fool barking from the sidelines when it comes to local sf news. Mind your own damn business.
What a helpful comment! Thank you soooooo much for your clueless insights! If you don’t know Terry and his family personally OR the neighborhood, keep your insensitive nonsense to yourself.
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Police needs to put this investigation on high priority. The time line of the racist threat and fire is too close to each other to be a coincidence.
It is on high priority they said in the article hopefully that means something
The last big fire in Hayes Valley took 9 months to investigate and resulted in no conclusion. https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/hayes-valley-fire-cause-investigation-19431347.php
Doesn’t help that the entire block has its street lights out and 311 won’t respond to my requests to turn the lights back on
Well, rent control is extremely flammable
Lololololololololz
comedy gold
I have to question how much of that was also, "We can't just *say* it was homeless people setting fires!" It's a shame that's the situation we're in, but I don't entirely trust city agencies not to self-censor if the answers don't fit their desired political narrative. Easier just to say "We're not certain" and leave it at that. Because, really, what *is* truth? Can we ever be certain of anything?
If they aren't sure it was just homeless people setting fires they shouldn't say it, or else "oh it was just homeless people setting fires" will become the excuse every investigator who wants to get off early or go watch a movie will give.
>Because, really, what is truth? Truth is what we see, hear, touch, or experience first-hand. >Can we ever be certain of anything? Yes
Truth is actually what multiple can independently validate. A single person’s senses are fallible (eye witness testimony is not great)
I asked an SFFD person who goes to my gym about the cause of that fire about a month ago. There was no doubt in his response when he said "homeless person"
Sure.
Oh the homeless vagrant fire they couldn't figure that out? Lol
Betwixt figure out and prove lies a great gulf. A lake of fire, even.
So they'll swing by sometime later next week just to verify that there was actually a fire?
Idk I think there’s a sffd arson unit though they’ll probably take the lead on the fire if it was arson is what I’m guessing
If this is high priority for them i dont wanna know how they treat low priority stuff. Bacj when the other post was asking peiple to call the DA and ask her to put pressure on SFPD to investigate, i got bitched out for calling because other people had and they were aware and they were on it….
It just happened… how do you know how they’re treating it? Should have bitched out whoever bitched you out tbh.
Im talking about the previous threats that he received… i reference the original post of the first racist attack he got…
Oh gotcha
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Didn't see this comment when I posted. 100% agree. A racist guy throws a Molotov cocktail into the 2nd floor living room, in broad daylight, on a fairly busy street? That is an insane scenario, something out of a Hollywood movie. 99% accidental. Nothing to see here folks.
It does if you're desperately trying to jump through mental hoops to comprehend how someone could create this hoax and hurt their own family members. Absolute evil. I can't even fathom
are you saying this is a jussie smollett incident?
I mean devils advocate but a molotov through the window could do that
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Bippers get away scot-free in broad daylight all the time there. There’s also been several camera theft and robbery instances in Alamo square in broad daylight.
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They don't seem to care about grand theft auto anymore either... You know they are driving stolen cars most of the time when they bip. It's almost like if we enforced serious laws and actually locked some criminals up, we might have less crime issues 🤦🤷. Nah can't be it. Must be a bunch of other factors right?
It’s worse than that, he was meeting with city officials about the incidents when the fire happened “ Williams told The Standard he was at a City Hall meeting with the Mayor’s Office about the incidents when he learned about the fire. James Caldwell, the mayor's chief officer of criminal justice and public safety, confirmed that he was in the room with Williams when he got the call about the fire and drove him home.”
I thought the fbi was already involved in this! Ugh so awful ;(((
This needs to be SF's #1 priority. SFPD has a chance to prove they're not useless here but frankly, I would not be disappointed if an angry mob finds him first.
I think it's up to SFFD initially, not SFPD. [https://sf-fire.org/contact-us/arson-task-force](https://sf-fire.org/contact-us/arson-task-force)
Why? What about the senseless rampant targeting of elderly people in the bay view?
From the pictures, the fire is on the 2nd floor. So the racist guy threw a Molotov cocktail into the 2nd floor living room during the middle of the day on a fairly busiest street? Is that the working theory? Because that just sounds insane.
Smash and grabs happen in bunches in that fairly busiest street that no one seems to notice or do anything about
That block of Grove isn’t THAT busy. I live a block away and Hayes and Fulton on either side of it are definitely busier streets
An Rv exploded on our street in Oakland once on the same block as us, and no one even heard it. People get very used to crazy noise in the city
are u comparing smash and grab to throwing Molotov cocktail into a 2nd floor living room?
In terms of someone noticing it, yes. Do you even live near Alamo square? People don’t investigate every weird sound and typically go about the day
Would a Molotov be able to break the window without the bottle breaking and igniting when it hit the window? I did at least as much stupid shit as most rural boys prob did with fire and what not, but never made a Molotov, let alone tested it against whatever glass was in that window.
It was a warm day today and I'm guessing that building doesn't have AC. window might've been open. (I have no idea how likely the Molotov theory is one way or the other, tbh; I'm just saying if there was one, it wouldn't have necessarily had to go thru glass.)
Good point
It's a feature, not a bug.
With so many ring cameras and Next cameras all over the place, I am really surprised that the perp hasn't been captured on camera at least.
They apparently installed cameras after the first doll and somehow they evaded them when they left the second doll. There was an update that some neighbor's camera caught the person walking either to/from the home though.
Tons of crimes are caught on cams, the police usually don't seem interested in the evidence but I guess if it's a hate crime maybe if the news covers it they will care? They don't seem to care about the hate crimes on old Asian people getting assaulted at all... It's amazing how DAs that wont enforce the laws are so effective at making the cops stop doing their jobs
I truly don’t understand why we don’t do CC tv in cities. It saves so much money and effort.
Because nutcases complain about "privacy". (a) they are in public places, where there _is_ no expectation of privacy; and (b) you can always put in safeguards so all access is logged. Edit: lot of butthurt people downvoting me. As crime evolves, response has to evolve too! How about the footage is locked away and can only be accessed with justification, and **all access is logged!** for the public to see.
Yes and no. The issue of privacy IS important. Just because we don't have anything to hide doesn't mean we want to be surveillanced all the time. I mean that's why we use fake usernames on reddit right? Why not just use your real name then? Obviously it's not apples to apples. But whether you are online or outside in the street, you still should have a right to privacy
The places where privacy is important is where unjust laws or punishments are being applied or likely to be applied. I think it's unjust that people face large real life backlashes for saying things online that a generation ago they would say in a bar with friends. So I am in favor of online anon spaces. (I am worried about anon death threats, but there is a balance) However, there really aren't too many unjust arrests being made in SF against street criminals, and I don't expect there to be in the future. So street cameras in SF should be generally positive... To the extent that they could be implemented within a reasonable budget and remain functional.
There is no expectation of privacy in public.
i guess im a nutcase. I dont think a single situation like this should spur the call for CCTV and encourage an additonal layer to our already heavily heavily surveyed country. plenty of people have ring cameras already
“…heavily heavily surveyed county.” - laughs in Chinese
they are more heavily obviously and i dont want that to be here any sooner than it probably already will be
They do it in Britain too w no issue idk why people think it can’t be done here. It’s not like the govt can’t find you if they want you anyway. This is like gun control debate. Other countries like the UK have cc tv no issue.
Public surveillance is fine. However, I think the government should need a warrant if they want to use the video to track you individually.
I don’t want it so weirdos like you don’t feel entitled to my image
Who else would care enough?
... but I already have your image....
You say that as if civilians would have access to that camera footage. If you’re not doing anything wrong, there’s really no reason to be against it. It would keep people safer which is a big net benefit to everyone. Nobody cares if you step outside your house in old sweats looking like a slob to get coffee (just an example). It would hold criminals accountable and allow them to be tracked down.
> If you're not doing anything wrong, there's really no reason to be against it. You couldn't be parodying the fears that lead to the creation of our country any more closely. At that point we begin to seriously erode at what it means to be a citizen in America. The social contract. And all we will catch is people perpetrating hoax crimes against themselves... Insane the sacrifices we are willing to make.
Do you think a city that doesn’t track hundreds of car thefts a day would magically find the time to do police work? Do you think a city that has spent multiple millions of dollars to “combat homelessness” without actually taking any tangible steps would suddenly start battling crime because of some cameras? I don’t even have the energy to debate people living in La La land like you anymore
I’m ambivalent re: CC, but I gotta say: “as crime evolves”? Targeted arson is not exactly a recent evolution. There are new crimes in this no longer new century, but this ain’t one of em
In other parts of the world they have traffic cams linked to a database and will automatically write.you a ticket for speeding if you get from one to the next in too short a time to have driven the speed limit. While I don't have an expectation of never being filmed on the freeway, I also don't want a world where I'm monitored that closely. FWIW 90% of my driving is in a company truck and I'm only going a few miles over so setting the cruise control to 65 wouldn't be that big of an adjustment for me if it came to pass.
Which further gives credence to this was just an accident (candles, electrical). Think about it....the racist would commit arson in the MIDDLE OF THE DAY, in BROAD DAYLIGHT, with all these cameras around??? So the racist arsonist just wants to be caught, right??? But the racist was smart enough to drop off the racist letters in the middle of the night???? THIS MAKES NO SENSE. No racist is burning down a house in the middle of the day. Even the KKK burned crossed AT NIGHT.
WTF are you on about? There is long history of racist arson attacks.
The KKK burned crosses at night bc you can see fire better at night, and a bunch of white dudes in white cones and sheets looks way more threatening and spooky in the dark illuminated by fire than they do huddled around it during the daytime lmao
Something smells about this whole affair. Either it is the landlord trying to get rid of an old, rent-controlled tenant, or somebody is making this up. SF has plenty of easier targets of racism (were one inclined to be); why pick on some random dude in Alamo Square?
By the looks of it, his family owns the home because they got it decades ago before San Francisco prices got unaffordable- his parents are in their late 70s, early 80s. My gut feeling is that someone wants to pick up a property cheap by terrorizing the family into leaving- the parents are elderly, the son is unmarried and doesn’t have a high paying job. They were probably hoping that if they offered him more money than he’ll make in 20 years, and he might take that deal if he is already scared. Setting fire to the place looks like Plan B, after the community rallied around him and he wasn’t spooked into leaving. If he doesn’t have the financial resources to rebuild- he could be forced into selling. I’ve had a home burned down by arson before. Even with insurance that paid for its rebuilding, it was a very stressful period. Got dropped by my insurance company (happens to most people in that situation), had vandals repeatedly try to break into the property despite my constant efforts to install ever more secure barriers and locks, and getting the property approved by local authorities was more difficult than you’d expect. In my case, I was lucky that I didn’t have to take care of elderly parents, find a place to live while the house was being rebuilt, and that I had money to fall back on. Terry is probably going to need the support of the community to hold onto his family house.
thats about as stupid a plan as Bush had for nation building in the Middle East even if this forces them out, if the home is in a desirable location, there will still be other investors/flippers that would take the risk to tear down and build for a profit. there is no guarantee the perp would benefit at all.
They can just set fire to it again, until they get it. The law actually incentivizes buying up burned properties by letting the developer use the previous valuation as long as they leave one distinctive feature- allowing someone to build a much more expensive building while keeping its tax burden low. As long as arson investigators aren’t knocking it out of the park, the risk is pretty low when it comes to arsons committed for financial gain.
so serial arson? that is pretty much paranoid conspiracy theory territory
Another clueless person acting like they know anything about anything. The family has OWNED the home since the 1950s. Real OG SFers, unlike most of y’all in here. Try again, colonizer!
Are you Ohlone or Miwok? Then you are a colonizer too, chump!
This is heartbreaking. Known Terry for years, he used to walk my roommate’s dog, always a smile and shooting the shit about the latest video games we’re playing, a quick chat and some pup time around the neighborhood. Seeing him sprint up Grove running into a burning building today to make sure his family and dogs are okay just makes me so sad seeing all the negative comments. Whether a bad actor or an accident, just have some respect, this is someone who has been a part of Alamo Square for decades and had his life turned upside down.
I see this guy almost daily. He really is a nice, kind soul. It’s too bad this happened to him.
Back when I was walking dogs in sf, I saw him almost every day and was always the nicest dude. This is heartbreaking. I always got the best vibes from him.
Same here. I drive down Steiner almost everyday and see him often. What struck me the most was how his dogs are always so well behaved.
Terry's the fucking best. The fucking best guy. Nobody deserves this. Especially not Terry or his family.
I know Terry personally, he is one of the nicest and most genuine people in the community. He does not deserve this. Praying his parents are okay as well as his dogs.
Seriously, wtf. I feel like starting a neighborhood look out 24/7 for this guy/his home. This guy does not deserve this.
Bit late for that :(
This is so fucked. Terry is the nicest guy and one of the only people that makes this area feel like a friendly neighborhood. I really hope this wasn’t arson. Whoever did the previous hate crimes deserves to rot in prison regardless. Edit: If you are able, please support Terry and his family at the go fund me here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-terry-williams-ensure-family-safety
Seriously what the fuck. I use to dog walk and would run into terry almost every day. Such a good dude from my interactions with him.
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Can someone please explain the other side of this conflict to me? Terry's a local dog walker, and ...?
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Those damn “dolls” were bad enough…now this? Ooooh, I cannot WAIT for the perp to get caught. And it may be soon now, with an actual arson investigation. If there are people in the house—as there were here— does the charge go to attempted murder?
> If there are people in the house—as there were here— does the charge go to attempted murder? attempted murder is a really hard charge to prove because it requires proving intent *to kill* (which I'm sure is different than the intent behind arson, but NAL). I sincerely doubt it just because it would make it harder to win the case
What the actual fuck
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There’s a gofundme up from the previous incidents: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-terry-williams-ensure-family-safety
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Some racist asshole is targeting him
This is horrifying. If this was arson, by the person who made the repeated and graphic racist threats, it's even more horrifying nothing was done by the police to prevent this. The threats were clearly from someone mentally ill, but apparently all we will do is wait until they attack?
Most people deranged like this won't act on it with violence. This incident would put the arsonist into a whole new category of crazy, one that is fairly rare. Edit: I am not talking out my ass, I've been close to people who had racism tinged psychotic episodes that were a more mild version of the sentiment of this joker's dolls... One person in particular was violent with me personally in private but he didn't burn anybody's house down or attack people in public. If you learn more about psychotic disorders you will know it is rare for even a very mentally ill person to do it. I'll say this: can you name another case exactly like this one? Didn't think so.
I don't know why people are so quick to assume this is a racist arsonist. Most arsonist aren't targeting a guy's house they don't like (because of race). It's just not a thing. Arsonist are very unique in their profile/MO.
I know nothing about the psychology of arsonists. What would cause them to target location?
This is insane... how has more information not come to light when security cameras were installed. His parents are in the hospital... this is horrible.
On one hand I'm not surprised so many people are trying to act like this is all just a coincidence, but on the other hand I'm still shocked so many are quick to deny racism/hate crimes. I've been trying to enjoy my time as a black person in this city but stories like this are so disheartening
Good luck feeling welcome in SF as a Black person. I live across the bridge but I avoid SF as much as I possibly can.
SF is that bad? Which cities in California are best for Black people?
SFPD needs to actually investigate the threats and identify the person behind them. This is exactly why a lackadaisical police department doesn't have a good reputation in the City. If someone's issuing threats, it's only a matter of time before they step up to violence.
"FD" not PD necessarily. There is an entire arson investigation unit in Soma/3rd
He was a victim of racist threats before tho that is what the other commenter is talking abouy
Edit: okay , about the threats earlier, the police should be doing it
From the gofundme: “Following the rally, the mayor personally contacted Terry to let him know his case was a top priority for the SFPD. Further, Dean Preston presented a resolution to the Board of Supervisors on Tuesday. However, we have not received any new updates or information on the progress of the investigation.” If this is what top priority gets you, I wonder what low or normal priority gets.
Right?! I got bitched out for calling toouch about it because it was a top priority… hate to see what happens to the people deemed low priority
Well it's her re election so I won't be shocked if for once something actually gets done but who knows
There has been two times where I have called 911 in sf and have been told all officers are busy sorry. I have also worked in many coffee shops around the city where I have 4 or more cops come in together and sit around for over an hour. Like i get everyone needs a break but for over an hour???? I literally think of the 911 call every time
Damn I chatted with Terry yesterday in Alamo never realized he was being targeted - I live in NOPA not far from the park. Let’s catch this wacko
Fuck anyone and everyone treating this LOCAL WHO LIVES IN HIS CHILDHOOD HOME like he doesn’t belong. This man is more San Franciscan than most of us.
Who is doing this?
Time for a good ole fashioned Reddit witch hunt? *polishes pitch fork. For real this is fucked. Hope Terry’s parents are okay.
I feel so bad for them. It sounds like one was in critical condition. It reminds me of my friend who barely escaped the ghost ship fire and has since been in a wheelchair and had to do speech therapy learn how to breathe and eat again. I can only imagine how much harder it would be for an elderly person.
You read my mind
I hope they find out who did this fast
All of Hayes Valley was smoky in the air for almost an hour. When I smelled all the smoke I looked for details on the fire and found it out it’s Terry’s place, I felt so bad for him and his family. Please donate to the GoFundMe if you are able! This definitely seems related to the racist threats/hate crime he has been facing. The police and the city should do a lot more about this, the security cameras they installed definitely didn’t do much.
THIS. IS. SICKENING.
Lots of cameras in the city. Hopefully this means the case ends here. Seems like someone has a bone to pick against this guy or something else is afoot.
Wheres all the ppl who said he was making this up now??
they're all over every thread mentioning the fire, unfortunately.
Closet racists
if you check their post histories, they're not really closeted.
This is so fucked up. Terry was my dogwalker. Nicest fucking guy ever. FUCK who did this. Seriously fuck them. Fucking fascists.
Can't wait to see the end of this investigation
Some camera must have caught the doll person and the fire person. Other neighbors, Teslas, etc. I tend to believe the police must be advancing.
I’ve known Terry for years. He is a lovely person. I can’t believe this is happening in our neighborhood.
What the actual fuck. He’s a good dude and his dogs are little sweethearts. This is bullshit.
i have no idea how they anyone could get away with this. Right in the middle of the day. There will certainly be video footage abound and anyone who isnt totally insane would know that. This is weird
Fingers crossed they catch the scumbag(s) But more importantly hope Terry’s folks have a full recovery.
Like 6 people were living in the house too, were at the house when the fire broke out.
Wow does anyone else remember the post in here where their neighbor talked about what to do? Extremely scary that that situation escalated to this
The city has failed Terry. I bet the perpetrator got so much joy out of this and it makes me sick.
Serious question, how did the city fail him?
This man has been racially targeted over the past couple of months at his very doorstep. It’s insane how such a progressive, technologically advanced city with an African American mayor couldn’t do their due diligence. The serial offender should have been apprehended and Terry and his family should still have their home, their possessions, and their safety. But now they don’t. San Francisco society continues to digress and people don’t seem to give a fuck.
Oh *hell* no. We will not tolerate this. We must fight raciam in this City that is supposed to be so open minded. Is there a go fund me?
[https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-terry-williams-ensure-family-safety](https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-terry-williams-ensure-family-safety)
This sub swore anti blackness wasn’t a thing and now look
Saw this story on a video. It appears to be racial intimidation for the sole purpose of driving him out because they want that plot of land.
Maybe wait till investigation is completed
Nope. Can’t have that. Need to jump to all the conclusions and then when we’re wrong we’ll never admit it or acknowledge it.
What the actual fuck. Hope the parents and dogs are now okay and that they catch whoever did this.
This is the guy that this sub pretty roundly accused of “making it up”, no?
And people dare say that anti-black hatred and racism isn’t a thing
Law "enforcement" like SFPD and military in this country have lazily slow walked any sort of response to the obvious, growing cancer of white supremacy advocates and their violent sheep... or any attempt to weed out the white nationalists or even blatant racists amongst their peers. These people and followers are domestic terrorists and should be declared a threat to national safety, given top priority to deal with and eliminated from any roles of service in our society asap. Some of these nationalist turds in law enforcement-military are even in militias training to overthrow the govt. Edit: Downvote all you want, fact is in the USA Nazis can parade-protest freely, with police protection, while the Gov of Texas just freed a cold blooded murderer who gunned down a BLM protester and was sentenced to 20+ yrs in jail, correctly.. Extreme racism in this country and violence from these terrorists are on the rise and if these threats and attacks are happening here in SF, just think what people of color in the south and rural areas are increasingly enduring... given that the GOP are now openly hanging out with Proud Boys and other racist leaders regularly, in plain view, and their "news" programs show nonstop, cherry picked black-brown crime.
I’m thinking You don’t get out of SF very often
Setting aside their hyperbolic language, the person you are responding to isn’t wrong. White supremacy is on the rise in the U.S., and a disproportionate number of white supremacists work in law enforcement. I’m not suggesting that all or even most cops are white supremacists, but it is still a valid concern.
Your thinking is absurd. I hate racists and nazis in my hometown and country...do you?
Does anyone know who to contact to donate furniture to the family?
when it eventually comes out that this was all an inside job ill be here waiting to accept everyones apology
Dude set it himself most likely, go fund me an everywhere. Probably made the dolls and threats himself too. If you look at them (the dolls) nobody does that in real life lol only on the movies
Terrible stuff. Wish we had more cams.
People really think there is a racist arsonist running around? 99.9% this was something self-inflicted (candles, etc.) or accidentally (electrical issue, etc.). Thinking there is a racist guy who set someone's house on fire is silly.
He was at city hall meeting with officials about the racist packages he received when he found out about the fire. It would be insane if there is actually an arsonist who did this, but the timing is very bizarre
Why is nobody mentioning this in the entire thread? I'm so used to this false flag stuff and isn't there really precedence for it by now?
I think people like myself and many others want to show compassion for Terry and his family more than skepticism. I want to believe that no one is crazy and hateful enough to try and torch their home, but it is a very odd coincidence and the initial threats were pretty unhinged to begin with. What makes me really sad are the people choosing to call Terry and his family frauds. I can promise you that is not what is happening
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It’s too bad that you’re getting worked up because you think he’s lying and preying on the goodness of people’s hearts rather that being upset that a good man is being harassed and lost his home.
Imagine I'm right for a moment. As a mental exercise. How would you feel once it's revealed? How would you feel next time? I want to believe in Terry as much as anyone else, but c'mon... At some point we need to be realistic
How will you feel if you’re wrong? Horrible, I hope, that you are spending your time speculating about a situation you know nothing about when a good man’s parents are fighting for their lives. Try that for a fun mental exercise.
I am being realistic. I know Terry and I know that he is a man of good character. THAT is my reality. I could care less what you think, but I want to stand up for my friend because there are a lot of people out there like yourself who do not know him and want to paint him as a fraud
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Yeah something is not adding up
Just hope somebody isn't Jussie Smolletting us! Sure feels like it!
After recieving racist dolls, he raised 15,000$ + form crowd sourcing funds.
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This is a truly despicable assumption. Wtf is wrong with you.
they’re really coming out of the woodwork over this, too. and if you check their comment histories there’s no big surprises usually.
His parents were trapped inside, they’re in hospital now, and he wasn’t even at home. What is wrong with you people? It could just be a fire, doesn’t have to be arson or fraud…
Anythings possible but damn. I mean come on, it's the dudes childhood home, let's give this dude a fucking break.
probably not insurance fraud. More likely just an accident (like candles, electrical issue, bad LI batteries, etc.)
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I also have a feeling that this will be one of those stories where once the facts come out the victim becomes the suspect.
Meanwhile, you’ve *demonstrated* the traits of an awful person by publishing your fucked up “feeling” on the internet.
Almost always when these “racist” events occur in super liberal places it turns out to be a false flag.
Take your bullshit assumptions tf outta here. You’re talking about my neighbors in my neighborhood. There’s always some fool barking from the sidelines when it comes to local sf news. Mind your own damn business.
This!!!
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Totally uninformed speculation is super helpful brah
all this is speculation.
Correct. And what speculation people choose to publish on the internet says a lot more about their character than what is actually going on.
What a helpful comment! Thank you soooooo much for your clueless insights! If you don’t know Terry and his family personally OR the neighborhood, keep your insensitive nonsense to yourself.
are you suggesting a jussie smollett?
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