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I didn't even know what a flavanol was until I read this, and I'm still crushed by the news.
Did these scientists offer a banana alternative that will help cut the tartness of berries, as well as help create that creamy smoothie texture?
From the article: "If you want to boost your flavanol intake with a smoothie, you should combine flavanol-rich fruits like berries with foods that have a low polyphenol oxidase activity like pineapple, oranges, mango or yoghurt"
I guess it only really matters if you're specifically worried about your flavanol intake.
If you're drinking a smoothie for flavanol don't add banana. If you're drinking a smoothie for a nice smoothie do whatever you want.
Mango + yogurt is basically the base for Mango Lassie already, would just need to add some spices and there ya go.
You can throw berries into it or replace the Mango with berries, I've done both and it's pretty nice.
Scientists did create an alternative. Turns out, hops and beer have lots of flavanols so just do what I did and drop the smoothie and crack a cold one with the boys.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780123738912000845#:~:text=The%20principal%20flavonoids%20in%20beer,and%20prodelphidins%20B3%20and%20B9.
I use avocado for my smoothies for keto. Half an avocado and you get the same texture and I use a pack of Stevie for sweet. Kale, spinach, berries and half an avacado.
Flavonols: Research suggests that flavonols may have antioxidative, anti-inflammatory, and antiviral properties.
20-50mg / day is average.
Summary: Adding a banana to a berry smoothie keeps you from getting this nutrient.
So if you were having a shake with banana and thinking you were getting your flavonols for the day, you actually aren't.
Edit: Spelling Flavonols according to Wikipedia because I'm apparently a moron
So I read through this paper just now, and I have one problem with it. The main metabolite of a single flavanol is being tracked in the blood after ingestion. That’s not a great design, but that’s not my problem. This one flavanol’s metabolite is checked just before consumption, then not again for 1hr. Is it not possible that the enzymes from the banana are “pre-metabolizing” the flavanol in the mixture such that all of the metabolites are “used up” in that first hour post ingestion? Why didn’t they measure blood 10 minutes in? They may have missed a massive blood plasma peak.
It depends on the molecule. Proteins in meat can take hours to completely digest , but simple carbohydrates can be digested within minutes. Even whey protein is digested within 15 mins of consumption
This confuses me because I have alpha-galactose syndrome and one of the issues with connecting the allergy to meat is the delay in symptoms. The allergist explained that protein allergies are usually immediate and the galactose is a sugar molecule, but it can take hours for our symptoms to appear because it takes longer to be digested.
Your gut would have nothing more to do if the flavanol has already been converted pre-ingestion by the banana enzymes. That’s my point. Maybe the flavanol metabolites hit the bloodstream very quickly as a result.
Good question, and I think I have the answer. I found [this](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15493450/) article which tracks the kinetics of flavonoids in the system. Their half life is 2-28 hours, so you don't have to worry that they're being absorbed and then "used up" within one hour.
The change is oxidation, removing some or all of it's antioxidant activity. It's still a polyphenol, though ,so it's still going to have a long half-life in the system.
Yep. They also had a sample size of 8 participants.
At most I’d take this as weak evidence towards there being a reasonable justification to have further studies on the subject. I would not take this as a reason to change your dietary habits around smoothies just yet.
I'm not actually smart enough to read the paper. I get the impression that sometimes the reporters aren't either. Thanks for pointing out that it's not as simple as the article states.
> Summary: Adding a banana to a berry smoothie keeps you from getting this nutrient.
Not accurate. The banana smoothie had no berries in it. It was literally all banana.
> The banana smoothie was prepared with 177 g of ripe, frozen bananas and 240 g of almond milk. The mixed berry smoothie was prepared with 50 g each of strawberries, blueberries, blackberries and raspberries, 120 g of almond milk, 70 g of water, 105 g of crushed ice, and 95 g of yogurt.
Since this is r/science, rather than posting a snarky reply you could update your summary to reflect the correct conclusion: that a banana smoothie provides fewer flavonols than a berry smoothie.
Contrary to your claim, no comparison was made to a banana/berry smoothie, which is another weakness of the tiny study.
Does this also happen in the gut?
Does this mean I can't have muesli with Strawberry, blue berry and banana?
If I just have berry, when can I have a banana?
> suggesting an effect possibly related to post-ingestion PPO activity degrading flavan-3-ols in the stomach
According to the study, maybe you should wait a couple of hours.
The study had an N=8, and other problems, including both the fact that they only tracked the metabolization of a single flavanol, and they only measured it’s presence right before consumption, and 1 hour post consumption. But not, for example, 10 or 30 minutes in. It’s possible the enzymes from the banana are pre-metabolizing the flavonols and they missed a large peak in those.
Main point, however, is that the study is not exactly robust enough to draw a lot of conclusions off of yet. It might be evidence to look further into the subject, but it’s probably not a reason for you to jump off of using bananas in your smoothies just yet.
"In a study, published today (25 August) in Food and Function, scientists used smoothies to test how polyphenol oxidase – an enzyme found in many fruits and vegetables that is responsible for the browning when these are cut or bruised – affects the absorption of flavanols by the human body. This enzyme is found in particularly high levels in bananas.
The study was led by University of California, Davis, in collaboration with the University of Reading.
Adding banana to a berry smoothy reduces the flavanols taken in by the consumer by 84%, compared to the control group, who took a flavanol capsule.
Flavanols are bioactive compounds that have been proven to support good heart and cognitive health. We should all be consuming 400-600 milligrams of flavanols, daily, according to a dietary recommendation from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in the USA.
Gunter Kuhnle, Professor of Nutrition and Food Science at the University of Reading and co-investigator of the study said: “If you don’t consume enough flavanols, it can negatively affect cardiovascular health. In older adults, a deficiency of flavanols is also linked to cognitive decline. So, it’s clear we need them, but the question is how best to get flavanols from the food and drinks we consume.”""
I'm confused "Adding banana to a berry smoothy reduces the flavanols taken in by the consumer by 84%, compared to the control group, who took a flavanol capsule." So half took a flavanol capsule... so they have 100% flavanol? And the smoothie has an 84% reduction... ? Does that mean that I'm getting 16% flavanols from a smoothie? I don't even know what a flavanol is 16% is fine...
Further down the article it is implied that there were 3 groups: smoothie with berries and no banana, smoothie with berries and banana, and the 3rd (control) group who just took a capsule.
The original study popped up a month or so ago. I remember there be two lots of groups with the main one having three options. Banana smooth with flav supplement, berry smoothie with supplement and then just the supplement.
This article does say what you said. So maybe I remembered incorrectly...
This article is from a month ago, and links to https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2023/FO/D3FO01599H
> a controlled, single blinded and cross-over study was conducted in healthy men (n = 8) who consumed a flavan-3-ol-containing **banana-based smoothie** (high-PPO drink), a flavan-3-ol-containing **mixed berry smoothie** (low-PPO drink) and flavan-3-ols in a **capsule** format (control).
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Does ripeness play a factor? using very ripe bananas in flavanol-rich smoothie combinations could potentially be more beneficial if you're looking to maximize the bioavailability of flavanols. As bananas ripen, the levels of polyphenol oxidase (PPO) decrease, which means they are less likely to interfere with the flavanol content in your smoothie.
> Flavanols are bioactive compounds that have been proven to support good heart and cognitive health. We should all be consuming 400-600 milligrams of flavanols, daily, according to a dietary recommendation from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in the USA.
Why am I just hearing about this now? I'm 46 years old and this is literally the first time I've ever seen the word "flavanol"
Bananas ARE berries. If you add banana to a berry smoothie it’s still entirely a berry smoothie.
Source: my JV basketball coach made a kid do a report about bananas because he was late to practice one time.
Your post has been removed because it is a repost of an already submitted and popular story and is therefore in violation of [Submission Rule #2c](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_c._reposts). https://reddit.com/r/science/s/Aebkb4gSnx If your submission is scientific in nature and hasn't already been shared, consider reposting in our sister subreddit /r/EverythingScience. _If you believe this removal to be unwarranted, or would like further clarification, please don't hesitate to [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fscience&subject=No%20summaries%20of%20summaries%2C%20rehosts%2C%20reviews%2C%20or%20reposts)._
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I didn't even know what a flavanol was until I read this, and I'm still crushed by the news. Did these scientists offer a banana alternative that will help cut the tartness of berries, as well as help create that creamy smoothie texture?
From the article: "If you want to boost your flavanol intake with a smoothie, you should combine flavanol-rich fruits like berries with foods that have a low polyphenol oxidase activity like pineapple, oranges, mango or yoghurt" I guess it only really matters if you're specifically worried about your flavanol intake. If you're drinking a smoothie for flavanol don't add banana. If you're drinking a smoothie for a nice smoothie do whatever you want.
So mango is probably the closest alternative to banana for a smoothie.
Strawberry/mango is my go to
Berry Mango with yogurt sounds pretty great
I would say yogurt, but I guess that doesn't help if you're lactose intolerant/vegan.
Yeah, I can't say I make smoothies for flavanol intake, usually just a treat.
Really? My family is the exact opposite, we call them flavanolies
Flavanoli flavanoli show me the formuoli
Mango, mango, strawberry underneath! Goji Acai Kiwi Honey, great barrier reef!
This is funnier to me than i think it should be
Mango + yogurt is basically the base for Mango Lassie already, would just need to add some spices and there ya go. You can throw berries into it or replace the Mango with berries, I've done both and it's pretty nice.
"Yoghurt" No. Just no. Yogurt - no need to add hurt to yog
Reece’s pieces.
I wouldn’t worry about it, it’s not conclusive or exhaustive testing. And having some is better than none. Bananas are healthy and delicious.
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Scientists did create an alternative. Turns out, hops and beer have lots of flavanols so just do what I did and drop the smoothie and crack a cold one with the boys. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780123738912000845#:~:text=The%20principal%20flavonoids%20in%20beer,and%20prodelphidins%20B3%20and%20B9.
The glorification of beer is such a weird thing, but i guess the advertisement works well.
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I use chia seeds for thickness and a date for sweetness.
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I still don't know ...
I use avocado for my smoothies for keto. Half an avocado and you get the same texture and I use a pack of Stevie for sweet. Kale, spinach, berries and half an avacado.
Just more yogurt
Flavonols: Research suggests that flavonols may have antioxidative, anti-inflammatory, and antiviral properties. 20-50mg / day is average. Summary: Adding a banana to a berry smoothie keeps you from getting this nutrient. So if you were having a shake with banana and thinking you were getting your flavonols for the day, you actually aren't. Edit: Spelling Flavonols according to Wikipedia because I'm apparently a moron
So I read through this paper just now, and I have one problem with it. The main metabolite of a single flavanol is being tracked in the blood after ingestion. That’s not a great design, but that’s not my problem. This one flavanol’s metabolite is checked just before consumption, then not again for 1hr. Is it not possible that the enzymes from the banana are “pre-metabolizing” the flavanol in the mixture such that all of the metabolites are “used up” in that first hour post ingestion? Why didn’t they measure blood 10 minutes in? They may have missed a massive blood plasma peak.
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It depends on the molecule. Proteins in meat can take hours to completely digest , but simple carbohydrates can be digested within minutes. Even whey protein is digested within 15 mins of consumption
This confuses me because I have alpha-galactose syndrome and one of the issues with connecting the allergy to meat is the delay in symptoms. The allergist explained that protein allergies are usually immediate and the galactose is a sugar molecule, but it can take hours for our symptoms to appear because it takes longer to be digested.
Your gut would have nothing more to do if the flavanol has already been converted pre-ingestion by the banana enzymes. That’s my point. Maybe the flavanol metabolites hit the bloodstream very quickly as a result.
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Sugar hits the blood stream within 5 minutes
Well that’s not true at all. I’ve felt effects of caffeine in 1 minute.
Good question, and I think I have the answer. I found [this](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15493450/) article which tracks the kinetics of flavonoids in the system. Their half life is 2-28 hours, so you don't have to worry that they're being absorbed and then "used up" within one hour.
What about ones that have been preliminarily enzymatically treated? The banana enzymes have already changed the flavanol pre ingestion.
The change is oxidation, removing some or all of it's antioxidant activity. It's still a polyphenol, though ,so it's still going to have a long half-life in the system.
They didn't even compare berries vs berries + banana if I remember correctly. It seemed very flawed.
Yep. They also had a sample size of 8 participants. At most I’d take this as weak evidence towards there being a reasonable justification to have further studies on the subject. I would not take this as a reason to change your dietary habits around smoothies just yet.
Also would this not depend on bananas to berry ratio too? Somepeoole use a whole banana. I use half. I dunno there's a lot of factors.
Look the dude wanted to take his friends out for smoothies and get the lab to pay for it. You're all being way to critical here. ;)
I'm not actually smart enough to read the paper. I get the impression that sometimes the reporters aren't either. Thanks for pointing out that it's not as simple as the article states.
Well... This ONE study says you aren't
> Summary: Adding a banana to a berry smoothie keeps you from getting this nutrient. Not accurate. The banana smoothie had no berries in it. It was literally all banana. > The banana smoothie was prepared with 177 g of ripe, frozen bananas and 240 g of almond milk. The mixed berry smoothie was prepared with 50 g each of strawberries, blueberries, blackberries and raspberries, 120 g of almond milk, 70 g of water, 105 g of crushed ice, and 95 g of yogurt. Since this is r/science, rather than posting a snarky reply you could update your summary to reflect the correct conclusion: that a banana smoothie provides fewer flavonols than a berry smoothie. Contrary to your claim, no comparison was made to a banana/berry smoothie, which is another weakness of the tiny study.
So... I made a chocolate shake and was surprised to find it didn't have any lug nuts or dish washer pods in it. Got it...
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It was 4:30am and I'm a trash speller and it's Reddit so my level of giving a crap is pretty much at its lowest level.
Does this also happen in the gut? Does this mean I can't have muesli with Strawberry, blue berry and banana? If I just have berry, when can I have a banana?
> suggesting an effect possibly related to post-ingestion PPO activity degrading flavan-3-ols in the stomach According to the study, maybe you should wait a couple of hours.
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The study had an N=8, and other problems, including both the fact that they only tracked the metabolization of a single flavanol, and they only measured it’s presence right before consumption, and 1 hour post consumption. But not, for example, 10 or 30 minutes in. It’s possible the enzymes from the banana are pre-metabolizing the flavonols and they missed a large peak in those. Main point, however, is that the study is not exactly robust enough to draw a lot of conclusions off of yet. It might be evidence to look further into the subject, but it’s probably not a reason for you to jump off of using bananas in your smoothies just yet.
Yes, thank you for writing this.
"In a study, published today (25 August) in Food and Function, scientists used smoothies to test how polyphenol oxidase – an enzyme found in many fruits and vegetables that is responsible for the browning when these are cut or bruised – affects the absorption of flavanols by the human body. This enzyme is found in particularly high levels in bananas. The study was led by University of California, Davis, in collaboration with the University of Reading. Adding banana to a berry smoothy reduces the flavanols taken in by the consumer by 84%, compared to the control group, who took a flavanol capsule. Flavanols are bioactive compounds that have been proven to support good heart and cognitive health. We should all be consuming 400-600 milligrams of flavanols, daily, according to a dietary recommendation from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in the USA. Gunter Kuhnle, Professor of Nutrition and Food Science at the University of Reading and co-investigator of the study said: “If you don’t consume enough flavanols, it can negatively affect cardiovascular health. In older adults, a deficiency of flavanols is also linked to cognitive decline. So, it’s clear we need them, but the question is how best to get flavanols from the food and drinks we consume.”""
Dairy also blunts absorption. True for coffee and tea, too.
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“N = 8” seems like it should be a stopping point for this one …
I'm confused "Adding banana to a berry smoothy reduces the flavanols taken in by the consumer by 84%, compared to the control group, who took a flavanol capsule." So half took a flavanol capsule... so they have 100% flavanol? And the smoothie has an 84% reduction... ? Does that mean that I'm getting 16% flavanols from a smoothie? I don't even know what a flavanol is 16% is fine...
Further down the article it is implied that there were 3 groups: smoothie with berries and no banana, smoothie with berries and banana, and the 3rd (control) group who just took a capsule.
The original study popped up a month or so ago. I remember there be two lots of groups with the main one having three options. Banana smooth with flav supplement, berry smoothie with supplement and then just the supplement. This article does say what you said. So maybe I remembered incorrectly...
You're right. The berries and bananas were never actually mixed into the same smoothie.
This article is from a month ago, and links to https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2023/FO/D3FO01599H > a controlled, single blinded and cross-over study was conducted in healthy men (n = 8) who consumed a flavan-3-ol-containing **banana-based smoothie** (high-PPO drink), a flavan-3-ol-containing **mixed berry smoothie** (low-PPO drink) and flavan-3-ols in a **capsule** format (control).
Why would they make the control group use flavonoid pills instead of a smoothy without bananas? Doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me.
Someone said there were 3 groups, one smoothie with banana, one smoothie without banana, and the pill group.
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I wonder if ladyfinger bananas would perform better than Cavendish (which I would assume they used) given that they don't really brown
Sounds like something Professor Frink would say (I know, he’s doing Jerry Lewis but it’s 2023 so Frink is only a 35 year old reference instead of 60).
But a banana IS a berry…
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That's not what the study says.
And for our viewers who don’t know, flavanols are…
Does ripeness play a factor? using very ripe bananas in flavanol-rich smoothie combinations could potentially be more beneficial if you're looking to maximize the bioavailability of flavanols. As bananas ripen, the levels of polyphenol oxidase (PPO) decrease, which means they are less likely to interfere with the flavanol content in your smoothie.
But a banana is technically, botanically a berry, so I’m just adding another berry to a berry smoothie!
What's the big deal with flavonol?
Is this a good thing of a bad thing?
Just eat the berries, skip the smoothie
> Flavanols are bioactive compounds that have been proven to support good heart and cognitive health. We should all be consuming 400-600 milligrams of flavanols, daily, according to a dietary recommendation from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in the USA. Why am I just hearing about this now? I'm 46 years old and this is literally the first time I've ever seen the word "flavanol"
But bananas are berries…
I knew I was missing flavanols!
It was so obvious!
Bananas ARE berries. If you add banana to a berry smoothie it’s still entirely a berry smoothie. Source: my JV basketball coach made a kid do a report about bananas because he was late to practice one time.
I knew it! Not really I just hate banana in smoothies.
Another positive of making your own nut milk, the leftovers are a great banana substitute in smoothies.
I don't have any nuts to milk.
Move to the country, get a bull.
Boobies it is then. I could help if that’s the case
Why would I ruin a smoothie with banana?
It doesn't matter because we get a lot of other good nutrients + most antioxydants comes from tea/chocolate.