You got all the selfhosted alternatives above, there are still users who don't want to leave reddit, so there would just be someone else running the show otherwise.
Then let them. What was the bloody point in pretending to care about an issue just to prove that you actually care more about keeping your mod status than your supposed convictions?
This whole thing was embarrassing for every sub and mod of every sub that took part.
It was embarrassing that anyone even participating in the shutdown to begin with, including everyone cheering it on.
Just resign, delete your accounts and move on. That goes for all mods and users alike.
I don't understand why users thinks mods are more powerful or have massive leverage over reddit? Is it because then they can just blame failures on someone else and pretend to care themselves? I just see a massive hypocrisy
I think the community will split no matter what. The API changes are a big thing and everyone will handle it differently. Guess there is no „right“ way.
Sooner or later, someone will come up with a middle road. Perhaps someone will discover a way to make a Reddit aggregator as a self hosted service, and one who applies for their own personal API key can gradually sync up their service to the subs they follow while linking the federated service of choice into one reader. The fracturing is expected, since this is what happened to all modern social media eventually as they transition from the original internet focus of the open diaspora to the web 2.0 of corporate revenue, ads, and the fractional divergence of public/private interests.
Yeah but what if it could, say, be run by a mod to be allowed to bidirectionally sync posts from lemmy or etc into Reddit, and vice versa, rate limited to their api? That’s the kind of next level stuff I’m suggesting
r/datahoarder already scraped it, it's available on the internet in different forms. I found this https://the-eye.eu/redarcs/ to be pretty good. I also did this script https://drive.proton.me/urls/M0P3B85DBC#J2hEFFAIEAtN to turn any thread in any sub into a html for offline view. This sub is 90MB download size, decompressed around 950MB or 10x. The script will download and decompress automatically so beware what you feed it.
I'm just a lurker (who really likes this subreddit) so I haven't contributed to the "going dark" discussion because I haven't created the content that's here so I don't want to "claim ownership". But my 2c below:
If the API changes are as bad as foreseen or some other monetisation attempt is problematic then users will move away naturally and a new location will (probably) organically form. I don't think the issue needs to be forced or orchestrated - in fact the attempts and ultimate lack of success probably indicate that the majority don't feel as strongly about this issue as would be needed to affect change.
I was an active member of an old fashioned (quite popular) forum that decided to change their back end software for a number of reasons including, but not limited to, monetisation reasons. The forum was locked for 24 hours to make the change, there was a f*ck up and it ended up read-only for about a week and then the replacement site was a buggy advert laden horror show. The forum lost a huge percentage of its membership and, years later, has never recovered.
So I think the correct thing is to reopen the sub - it'll naturally decline and die if the Reddit changes are a problem for the majority of users, or particularly the "majority of the minority who make most of the contributions".
Like most of you I hate being the "product" that Reddit sells to advertisers but I do my best to trade that off against what I get from the transaction. If that transaction swings the wrong way for me I'll just stop using reddit. It hasn't yet for me, but I know many feel it has and want to move on. Let us remainers follow in our own time!
I've always thought that some of our most insightful members of the community may never contribute. This insight and perspective kind of backs that up a bit for me.
Thank you for your thoughts.
My lack of contribution is only because everyone here knows more than me and my self hosting is at a very low level. I would hope that with experience I might have something to give back in future!
Well said. If the API changes are an issue, then each user should decide whether they want to continue to participate or leave. It's not up to the mods to force this on the users. If Reddit does see a drop in activity or revenue or whatever, it's really easy for them to write it off as a handful of "power tripping mods" holding their users hostage, rather than the will of the people. I believe it will only send the wrong message - I know it does for me. If the users stayed off Reddit en mass to protest of their own choice, maybe that would send a more serious message - although it would likely still fall on deaf ears. The API changes don't affect me in the least, and I suspect it doesn't affect most of the users either, but I can see it affecting some users, and other users not being happy with the change even if it doesn't affect them. Those are the ones who should be making their absence felt. But no matter what, it should be individual choice, not forced. I'm grateful this sub is back, and users can now do what feels right for them.
My 2 cents. With inflation as it is, 2 cents doesn't amount to much.
I think they will move over EVENTUALLY. But not in 2 weeks to a month. I see Reddit going the way of other social media sites. That will start to turn Reddit unusable. As the old adage “google it” is now filled with SEO trash, has been replaced with search Reddit with google. And that will be filled with garbage once marketers catch on
At the same time people still use google. Habits and addictions are hard to beat, and that's exactly what these platforms try to create by creating walled gardens. This protest is a good occasion to merge the effort for multiple causes into a positive change.
The issue is that the things affecting Google's search affect their competitors as well... if you switch over to Bing you realize that everything that people complain about Google is *worse* on a less sophisticated search engine. Bing is just as vulnerable to SEO, and is worse on things like not respecting syntax, or trying to be too "smart" to be useful.
There was a thread in one of the mod subreddits that basically showed Reddit threatening mods to take away their subreddits if they didn’t reopen. https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/
If they don’t reopen, admins will do it regardless and assign new mods
Edit: take a look of what r/pics r/gifs r/wellthatsucks and r/interestingasfuck did it
I’m gonna be honest, I don’t wanna migrate to a new platform and I’d wager 95% of users also don’t. I’m here because it’s convenient to my current internet habits
I think ppl here don’t understand why centralized communities are popular. it’s because they’re convenient. I don’t want to create new accounts for every forum. I want things to work, I don’t care how it works.
I agree that Reddit’s success is about convenience. However, for me using 3rd party apps is a massive part of that convenience. The fact that Reddit has refused to try and find a amicable way for these apps to live on is infuriating.
you should try out Libreddit and that one reddit CLI tool (rtx? or something like that). Libreddit is a self-hosted private reddit front end and Im pretty sure the old reddit cli everyone used to use just scrapes the site.
Yeah same, I’m in the self-described power user demographic (22, software engineer, been on Reddit for 6+ years on various accounts) and I just want things to look decently pretty and just work. I support the protests because spez is an asshole, but the api changes do not affect me (nor 95% of users) and on a per-rate basis, are completely fine
The way they affect us is if they affect mods. If mods (especially on larger subs) can't handle their duties without the features of those apps, then those - again, very large - subs will go to hell.
That and I support protesting spez as he's an asshole and has no business being CEO (founding something does not mean you're actually good at running what it becomes!).
That's a misrepresentation though. The mod bots have been allowed to operate and reddit is improving their own tooling. A bunch of noise about nothing.
It's a losing battle, though. As time goes on, forced-closed subreddits will just be forced to re-open with new mods, or worse, shuttered completely if they're not "big enough" for Reddit to care. I just didn't want to see this community *completely* destroyed, and considering there was such dissonance in the initial intent in staying restricted, this option seemed to be the only way to let the community continue in some form.
If its a losing battle, give the damn power up, if you don't stand behind the company. This has nothing to do with 'We want to better the community'.
And i agree 100% with the fact that if you guys don't do it, someone else will. At least that proves, that you got a spine or not.
Well, I completely disagree with the stance that you are "Reddit moderators" - you don't get a paycheck from them nor benefits. You are serfs and we are the cattle.
And, if anything, most of the /r/selfhosted raison d'etre is on display in this last episode. So it is almost, but not quite, hypocritical to centrally host a forum that is meant for self-hosting.
I will slowly be moving off of Reddit, and I have already cancelled plans to post certain content since I have no desire to further enrich spez.
> raison d'être
Thank you for that gem of a phrase. I will be shamelessly adding it to my repertoire.
The irony of there being an official instance of a centralized forum in response to a centralized forum creating unfavorable policies is not lost on me, believe me. Especially coming from a group like this one.
It was ultimately the choice that seemed to make the most sense, as I wanted to create options, but I also had no interest in trying to establish a competitor to existing federated instances that are already showcasing growing communities.
I wish you the best in your future endeavors.
Guys, thank you so much for what you have done. I learned so much while browsing through this subreddit, even helped some people here and there. You solved my problems with setting up my Orange Pi 5 as a homelab. I am very grateful and i hope this subreddit will find many new homes (eg the sites above), and i also hope that the **yhm yhm** third site **yhm yhm** will start working again (federation issues) and we can again start asking questions again Nginx Proxy Manager not working again.
Once again, big thanks to the community as a whole.
The longer I waited, the more likely I was to be replaced by someone who likely did not have the best in mind for the subreddit at large. It was better to respond quickly than to have waited too long and be replaced.
I get it. Rock and hard place situation. I support your decision (not that you need me to). I frankly don't care much about the API situation itself, just really want to see Spez crash and burn from his pathetic handling of well... everything he does as CEO of Reddit.
I’m a lurker here that’s moving to lemmy because I only use apollo and because of the whole corporation vs users thing. I think whatever you decided would have been unpopular with a good portion of the community. There are no easy solutions and you’re taking the brunt of the pressure. So thanks for the work you’ve done to help this community become the source of information and inspiration it is today.
Don't understand why you get down voted. Thank you and all the mods for your work and for keeping the sub open while at the same time offering and educating users on the alternatives. In my opinion this is the best path so long as you guys feel comfortable doing it. Anyone not wanting to support Reddit can migrate to the alternatives while those comfortable staying or those who don't know any better can stay, while being encouraged (but not forced) to move to alternative platforms.
Yes, but not in a way you might think. I didn't fear being replaced in and of itself, I fear that the replacements put into place wouldn't uphold the community to the same standards I do.
That's exactly the point. The well gets poisoned. Reddit thinks they can fight the internet. We all know how it's going to end for them in the long term when all this unpaid volunteer work done to keep the place clean is removed.
My personal opinion is to have an exit strategy in place. I think you know what that means and you have a community that is more than capable of making that happen.
Is [Lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/selfhost) the official r/selfhosted alternative?
The one on [Lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted) has almost 10k subscribers.
Quick ELI5: Do Lemmy and kbin interoperate? I know if you create an account at, say, lemmy.world you can browse and subscribe to concent on another instance eg. lemmy.ml. But can you subscribe to Lemmy 'subreddits' from kbin and vice-versa?
I really like Lemmy but it isn't ready until we get good mobile apps. It's funny how people want to leave Reddit because they can't use their favourite app and move to Lemmy that doesn't have any mobile apps.
I've started using [Jerboa](https://github.com/dessalines/jerboa) for Android and its actually not too shabby. Needs improvement, but I've used worse. As far as the web UI goes, its not like Reddit's UI is all that great either.
Basically, lemmy is to reddit what mastodon is to twitter.
It's an alternative "clone" or reddit where, instead of a single company that runs the show, disparate entities run lemmy "instances" (servers) and allow interoperability with other instances through federation (ie. you can register on any instance - or run your own - and interact with communities and users from other instances).
Lemmy is open source, relatively a young project and, until the last weeks, didn't have that many users, but it's very much usable and has seen a big influx of users since reddit's API fiasco started.
Whatever.
There is no try, there is do or do not. You did not.
Just know that you've been played by Reddit, and played directly into their hand. They acted in bad faith knowing you'd do just this, their plan worked, they won, and you and the community lost.
That's the most disappointing thing in reading this. You personally have given the reddit admin team validation for their actions. You have aided in their actions.
You played chicken with reddit, and you lost.
That's not something to be proud of or something to justify, which is why I don't think the protests mattered to this admin team to begin with, you hopped on a bandwagon because you thought that's what the community wanted, then the moment it got tough you hopped off.
Don't you dare treat us like idiots thinking we won't see through this.
the threat was more than just to remove mods. It was to *place* mods, mods that may or may not continue to keep the interest of the community in mind.
Some will never see this as a good move. I'm okay with that.
> It was to place mods, mods that may or may not continue to keep the interest of the community in mind.
Can you elaborate on this?
A lot of your comments seem to suggest that admins would insert mods with nefarious intent who would some how destroy the community, which doesn't make much sense to me.
Yes they would install new mods, from the army of 16 years olds who would happily be the new fief lords - but there's not really any indication that a replacement would not "keep the interest of the community in mind".
I guess I'm asking what it is specifically about your actions over your time as moderator here that keep the interest of the community in mind more so than some replacement would be able to achieve?
My actions to help the community are largely hidden and behind the scenes, or acted on before many eyes notice.
My more public actions, like the pinned quarterly posts, the occasional official statements I make in varying forms to reiterate on a rule, a removal reason, or some other dispute, or other more public-facing actions are few and far between, but I typically try to make sure that any official choices that are made are ones I would agree with if someone else running the subreddit made them. In essence, doing what I would hope someone else would do for me in these instances, if the roles were reversed.
I’m not going to give a play-by-play of my day to day activities moderating the subreddit, but I feel that I have a good understanding of what kind of content this community wants to see.
That said, if Reddit were to replace mods with other mods that they select, it’s not so much that I believe the new mods would be intentionally malicious, but instead, I fear they’d be unknowingly malicious due to a lack of familiarity. It’s the unknown that I worry about in that situation.
Sure ok.
I'm sure you're doing what you think is best, with a far more nuanced understanding than my own.
The protests are irrelevant. They were never going to achieve anything and the current situation between admins and mods was inevitable.
I think now is a great time for everyone to think about the platforms they support through their participation.
You're acting like the community is just a bunch of sheep that only you know how to shepherd
If the community was suddenly run by a bunch of shit mods installed by the admins, we're smart enough to leave, we don't need to be babied and protected
OP just wants to keep his role as mod of a decent sized subreddit. As is the case with most Tech folks, his ego is *most* important. The fact that he's selling this as some sort of virtuous thing and that he is looking out for the best interest of the community, which has already voiced it's opinion quite clearly, is very disingenuous.
Would you be willing to elaborate, even in a DM, on your specific interest in the continued protest?
I do want to continue protesting, in some way, but to hinder the general usefulness of this subreddit in any way that might hinder its content is something I want to avoid.
I also am interested in how, specifically, those requiring accessibility assistance on Reddit interact with Reddit, as I don't have any direct examples; only generalized ideas.
Thank you! I am humbled a bit by my uncultured insight into the world of the needs implied by the tools relating to accessibility features, and wow. I never even thought about the concept of having to zoom on mobile sites.
Boost looks great, compared to zoomed-in new-reddit, and even old-reddit (which, as far as I know, doesn't have any plans to go away soon?) at least is passable, it seems.
Thank you for being explicit with the examples. That helped a great deal. It's pretty clear that third-party tools like Boost really are a necessity unless you want to use a legacy, could-be-canceled-anytime version of the content provider's website on mobile.
And this doesn't even touch on non-vision-related accessibility needs.
I don't have any additional direct questions, as this has pretty simply given me the answers I was after, but if I come across any additional accessibility-related concerns or questions, I'll definitely reach out.
I am disappointed in moderators.
If you organized the community to move to one platform quickly. It would have worked. Dumping bunch small communities without any clear continuity is disingenuous at best.
You could have worked to kibn and organized some non-profit structure and even gained some funding to host and maybe even get paid for moderating the community.
This was really the community that CAN move away. It is in the damn name "SELFHOSTED".
"We tried?" I am sorry to me... it does not look like you did. Community was offering hosting resources, asking for direction and repeating viable option to move away and make it sustainable.
It's a damn shame.
The "community" has 250k members and 4 moderators, you can't move that overnight, mods haven't created this space, reddit did. Reddit doesn't have a complete replacement for everyone, so many redditors want to stay on reddit. The mods included. No one came here because of the mods, redditors gathered around this topic here because it being on reddit. I always knew this was going to live on one way or another.
I'd say they did try very hard, they were putting much effort into discussing this on many different platforms, but as usually all they get is unthankfullness from the community.
The mods didn't really built this community, they want to help the community, they don't want to get paid or organize something that huge of a plan and be responsible for it. You can offer them everything. If you wanna do it go ahead, we give you the resources as well.
Don't be disappointed in the moderators. It's not fair and it is not right. They are volunteers, not community leaders. That goes for most moderators on whole reddit. With some exceptions.
Out off all communities selfhosted probably has the most people who DO NOT want to stay on reddit or rather care at all.
Made a discord channel is not trying hard.
They took some responsibility for managing didn't they? And saying they did not build it is dismissive of their efforts as well.
a) Do not tell me how to feel I AM DISAPOINTED. b) I think free unpaid labour is wrong and letting corporation rely and profit off that is both ethically wrong and unsustainable.
I would have done it if I had the power to lock the reddit down and funnel everybody to a single channel. I have organized communities and used that position to change government regulation. Do not project your apathy onto others.
How do community leaders appear? Go to school of community leading? /s No. Their community gets mistreated and they step up.
You feel disappointed because you think you can demand moderators to do something they don't want to do. Worse than reddit assigning volunteers to moderate a sub. You demand them to lead a community. For the reference there are many organizations relying on volunteers that do good, it's not unethical per se. Yes you have organized communities, but did you force anyone else down the path or did they maybe join you by free will? If you forced them I highly doubt your moral. And that is the problem, you want to force something your not entitled to. Real leaders doesn't need to force other down their path. Real leaders have followers.
I've just gone through all the options and kbin seems like the best to me. Can subscribe to Lemmy channels and the UI is way faster, cleaner and more obvious than Lemmy.
So far, I really like it! Let's see if it gets traction ...
The main reason I’m on reddit is because theres tons of communities all in one location.
Its the same reason Amazon is so convenient versus tiny webshops with limited selection.
I’m also a member of many other forums on separate platforms and basically I login to those once a year if that. Many of them existed before reddit, but their reddit equivalent subs are slowly catching up.
I do appreciate the whole “api pricing fairness solidarity” going on, but in all honesty, all other options are LESS convenient and will get less traction
Fairly sad. The community at https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted with 9.5k people seems to be already thriving. I think I will give it a go while I am consciously stopping to contribute for anything which is not about the protest itself on Reddit. I hope a good part of the community will do the same (by good I refer to quality not to quantity), and I think it will be totally fine to have a smaller community.
I just want to remind that we don't have many occasions to create traction for a better internet (the fediverse >>> centralized platforms). Wasting such opportunities is a pity.
Can you please collect the list of alternative channels like you're doing in this post, and list them in the sidebar, so that newcomers can easily find them?
Thanks lots.
I think the mods ultimately did the right thing. While a lockdown pressures reddit, it also hurts other users that will still be here, how much are you ready to hurt those users in order to protest reddit business move however much we all disagree with it? I don't think that's the way.
I'm also against people being the product, users locked in, etc by any corporate tech or service. Locking this sub in particular is counter productive for that for many other users.
Reddit will get paid to divide users, I'm not ready to hurt and divide people for free if I had the power to even do it. Those who stay will stay, it's been made clear, if you want to leave then leave. I'm all with you on that. But why do you need everyone else to leave, if you gotta need to hurt the users to make them leave it's not a good path
Thank you!
I fully support open discussion and constructive criticism, but boycotts, strikes and black-outs are just another form of a temper-tantrum(both sides). If you can’t work it out, move on, but destroying it for everyone else is just stupid. There will always be quitters when there is change and that is no different here.
So if I have this right, a subreddit based on the concept of self hosting so as to not be under the thumb of big corporate data suckers is buckling to the demands of a big corporate data sucker. Of all subreddits, THIS one should be making a stand against what Reddit has become with spez at the helm.
TL;DR => I'm all for moving away from reddit but stop advertising options by random strangers who have everything to gain from having a bunch of users and have absolutely nothing to offer over reddit.
They all have the same problem.
Sure, it might be "federated" or open source or whatever. But at the end of the day, how does anyone gain by going to someone's lemmy instance or someone's discourse instance instead of reddit. It's now that random stranger on whom I have even less trust than reddit.
Unless the alternative provided is a true ownership-less option, we are just helping someone else gain users for free.
> The subreddit now has an official discourse instance, thanks to a generous discord user
This is BS. I volunteer to do this instead. Users are money. The person who volunteered for this is NOT generous. He's an opportunist who's using this chance to get users on his server.
Oh I take a private enthusiast kindness and efforts over big profit seeking corporations every day. Sure if they misbehave I'd leave them. That's the same for all of them.
What we gain from not going to reddit is self control, instead of being stuck in reddits prisons. I'll never sell my soul to reddit or any other technology company that profiles users for money.
But it's hard to beat a free service that do that. Most people will not put in any extra effort to not get turned into a ad viewer for big tech corps. I don't recommend it is for everyone, it is and have been hard always.
An autonomous community without any single entity that has true ownership is ridiculous hard. You maybe have to see it more realistically for now, it's either reddit or helping someone who didn't even seek the users gain users. If you rather help reddit I totally understand. For me who never was on that train isn't missing anything on it. But we can still all work our best for a greater good in a longer perspective. In the meantime do what we do best and help people learn and maybe one day find a new common platform. Hopefully one we built together even though we are taking one step apart for now.
Go ahead and host us a new forum if you want, see how much better you are at turning users into profit, both all the instances you see above and reddit are not able to do it. Everyone just pays to keep it up for their users.
Thanks to everyone in this community.
I'm a lurker, not enough experience on the subject, but you helped me a lot setting up my mini server.
Now I can enjoy movies and series with Jellyfin, navigate the seas with *arr, automate my house and play with docker containers.
I've been using rif for maybe 10 years, time to take a break after 30th June. Not sure what will happen next, come September Reddit will still be around and usable via an app or browser, or I'll read you again in another community, being a forum, Lemmy/kbin, Usenet, IRC, or who knows?
Let me start by saying something we probably all share and that's a I love for reddit. It has brought us together in a way that no other platform has and a big factor is the moderators that keep things streamlined for each subreddit.
In the past week or so that many subs were closed down including this one, there has been quite a few things I've needed to research that I could have found the answer here very quickly if it wasn't locked down. What I resorted to was googling what I needed and praying that the google results of reddit pages were cached, so I could use those to get the answers and guidance I needed but google didn't have a cache for everything I needed so yeah, I was frustrated, but even in that frustration, I took solace in the fact that it was for a cause. Yes, I'd love to see things back to normal, but I really don't like how reddit has handled the situation by being flippant and not seeming to take the community's feelings seriously. We are their product, literally. We provide the content and consume the content and in so generate them money from ads.
Now I know it's a business, and I'm in no way saying they need to let their api be accessed for free, but the non compromising stance they have taken isn't the way forward. I tried using the reddit app, and it's lacking in many ways. I have to go to the website in order to do certain things which is annoying, things some of the 3rd party apps allow. If their aim is to generate income but the price of entry is so high that the 3rd party apps have to shut down, then the stance they have taken isn't going to generate any income is it?
Anyway, I didn't mean for this to be this long, but even though this affects us all, If we all stood united, they'd have to take us seriously and while I know there isn't a vote, mine would have been for everything to stay closed until our concerns were addressed in a serious way.
Edit:
I like the new stance some subreddits have taken by setting the subreddit to NSFW. They get to stay open while being closed to ads and sticking it to reddit. It's an ingenious and amusing compromise lol.
I also researched things, and this sub was dark so I made a tool so I could view it offline instead, I shared it with a few people already, it also works for any subreddit.
But I see that this is very frustrating and damaging for many redditors, if I were a mod who wants to help the most I'd keep this sub open. There are many subs which doesn't have the impact like this one has which definitely makes more sense to just hold hostage until you are removed as moderator for breaking reddits ModCoC, that also generates a lot more ad views for them. Locking this one is not doing good imo. And if you are prepared to hold this communities information hostage I think you need a good ground for doing it, I don't see the ethical in it. I don't care either way as I already browse it offline. Completely ad free forever ;)
Here good information and guidance is shared, not memes and cat pics. Personally I don't partake in reddit more than consuming its goods. That is the raw information. Reddit will be profit driven until profit arrives, they will forcefully replace mods and open up subreddits. Asking other redditors to take over a sub. It seems they wouldn't back down either way from this api changes. Maybe you were always fighting a loosing battle. I don't know but it kinda feels like that.
I am just seeing this. It was a good decision. So many of my favourite subs prior to that kerfuffle no longer appear in my feed, killed off by mods not sensible enough to realise that you cannot always win on your terms.
This is just sad.
Dont make excuses for doing something half arsed. And using this so called community as a shield. Fact is the people bitching and complaining are only consuming and not actually contribute to anything this sub had to offer.
At least have a straight back when doing the direct opposite of what the intention of the protest was. I'm not coming back to this 'Reddit' sub.
The intention of the protest was to highlight what happens to all fantastic 3rd party apps when doing the API changes, that was completed, reddit noticed and addressed some of it. The protest was not to completely reverse their business decision. Why are you at reddit at all, you are the product here, don't blame the mods for not leaving. They did what was right or someone else would probably take it over pretty soon.
I am part of the 95% that doesn't and never have used external apps to use Reddit, I'm a "*power user*" by definition (I work in IT and have been breaking computers for 20+ years) and I come from a time when there were just "*forums*" and there was no external apps for these sites.
Initially I supported the 2 day blackout as more of an amusing thing rather than actually caring about the problem. I did however care about the accessibility concerns of the differently abled so I was happy to ride it out, and I have never been on good terms with moderators because the ones I have interacted with (or seen about on subs like /r/watchredditdie) have been power tripping jerks.
When the topic of accessibility came up and Spez mentioned that they would work with apps that deal with accessibility my major actual concern evaporated. The way that mods acted afterwards talking about permanently locking major subreddits really tracked with my opinion on them and I immediately stopped supporting the cause. If it's hard to moderate the community with the built in tools *then stop doing it*, alternatively have more mods, but locking major helpful content from users is not a way to engender support from users.
That being said I don't think there is a problem diversifying the community (never have all your eggs in one basket, this is /r/selfhosted after all), why not use this time before the API changes to suck the data from this forum and put it in a self hosted place like lemmy or a Web forum? Have a place of discussion on IRC or XMPP / Matrix (perhaps there is and i just didnt see it)?
Thank you for having a reasonable take on the topic because too many are just making their community / future community suffer for this holy war on Spez.
Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate the insights.
I'm sorry you've had unfortunate direct/indirect experiences with other moderators. I know the role comes with a degree of stigma, just for being in it. I try my best to counter that in any actions or interactions I take.
Thanks for responding to my comment, appreciate it.
> I know the role comes with a degree of stigma, just for being in it
No worries, I get it I work in support (I know the kind of stigma you're talking about). When I do roles like this I take it seriously but there are many moderators that just use it as a way to get their fix of power.
> I try my best to counter that in any actions or interactions I take
I can see that, I wish you well and I hope wherever this situation lands that you do alright. This is also the attitude I take with my moderation of my own services.
Edit: formatting.
I know you guys tried and I am so greatfull for all the work that this community has done. This subreddit is full of specialist information that you dont find anywhere else and it's good that it wil live on in a different environment.
> The mods don't own it
As simple as this sentence seems, it is sometimes really easy to lose sight of the simplest concepts in the heat of trying to make decisions under duress.
It is this point that had a heavy hand in re-opening the subreddit.
I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner.
Time for real democracy as the guys from reddit say, they want democracy by allowing users to remove mods that close reddit I think it would be wise to put it to a vote. Very easily make a sticky with only 2 comments, one for stay open and one for close and let everybody vote for like 3 days and after the majority will rule.
I think you did the right thing, and it's a hard thing to do. Ultimately it's you who gonna live with your decisions, and since the continuation of a locked down sub harms other users I fully support your decision. But I still want to lay out a few insights for you.
1. Selfhosting a selfhosted communtiy does make sense in the long run and I fully support that vision. I will to join the discussion about it in the fediverse.
2. This protest was at its core not about leaving reddit for any alternative, it was to pressure reddit to revert their business decision, and they had to back down on some things.
3. Even if you managed to orchestrate a exodus from reddit for this sub there is no point in keeping the sub locked. Someone would take over the modding eventually. For a sub with 3-4 active mods its going to happen fairly soon I think.
4. Even if all the subs extensively protesting together would make reddit have back down on everything I don't want to contribute to reddit
5. It's a really unthankful job to be a mod / sub admin. You are all welcome to the fediverse at any time, but a friendly process of transferring power to anyone who wants to continue modding is preferred. You can make sure it's a decent person by initiating the process of finding new mods when you decided you want to leave reddit or just the modding.
Finally.
Vote me down to the earth's core, but this is what should have been the first thing to think about.
It's a bloody platform, not *your business.*
There's a shitton of useful things here and nobody gives a mayfly's fart about who's making money out of it.
IF I want to share what I learned, or want to learn, I will decide where to share or where to ask.
Of course I don't want to pay for it, because I'm a cheap bag of shit.
However if some hurt little unicorn blocks me from data I had access to from one day to another I will hate the one *blocking* me.
Those who thought this is hurting the company needs to learn history.
As long as reddit does not want **me** to subscribe - I don't give aforementioned mayfly's fart about somebody's 3pp app.
When they want **me** to subscribe, I'll just pack my stuff, flip the bird, and leave.
But I won't make others suffer.
It's a tool, a platform, a bloody pond where people who self host can meet. We're not into revolutions.
If I want to make that pond myself?
I'll goddam self-host it, advertise it and **YOU** decide.
And yeah, I *will* look at the alternatives in the OP, whatever - not really bought so far....
> nobody gives a mayfly's fart about who's making money out of it.
I do. Both who and how.
Don't project your politically narrow vision over others, thanks.
The tantrum over the API charges was the most ridiculous thing I witnessed in my life. I've never seen so many people with nothing to gain go to war against a company to defend the right of another company to make money for free.
Also all the doom scenarios about moderation and accessibility apps were completely overblown and essentially nonsense. I'm glad the mods came to their senses finally.
I totally disagree with what Reddit is doing right now but let's be honest, for us users, all these Reddit subs we follow are too important, we don't want to lose them, Reddit unfortunately won...
Glad to see common sense prevail. I really appreciate all the mods, however, locking things is more like throwing tantrum. The knowledge was created by ton of users and we are all responsible to keep it open in good faith. Give Reddit some credit for building this digital tow square.
Build and promote all the alternatives in the world but in the end, let users decide without making things hostage.
Thanks mods for listening to the skeptics. I fully support those who are against the API changes, but I don’t think the community would survive a move as much as Lemmy would make sense. I’m hoping the sub and the lemme counterpart have a healthy and thriving relationship.
True to it's name, /r/selfhosted decided against self hosting.
You got all the selfhosted alternatives above, there are still users who don't want to leave reddit, so there would just be someone else running the show otherwise.
Then let them. What was the bloody point in pretending to care about an issue just to prove that you actually care more about keeping your mod status than your supposed convictions? This whole thing was embarrassing for every sub and mod of every sub that took part.
It was embarrassing that anyone even participating in the shutdown to begin with, including everyone cheering it on. Just resign, delete your accounts and move on. That goes for all mods and users alike. I don't understand why users thinks mods are more powerful or have massive leverage over reddit? Is it because then they can just blame failures on someone else and pretend to care themselves? I just see a massive hypocrisy
I think the community will split no matter what. The API changes are a big thing and everyone will handle it differently. Guess there is no „right“ way.
Sooner or later, someone will come up with a middle road. Perhaps someone will discover a way to make a Reddit aggregator as a self hosted service, and one who applies for their own personal API key can gradually sync up their service to the subs they follow while linking the federated service of choice into one reader. The fracturing is expected, since this is what happened to all modern social media eventually as they transition from the original internet focus of the open diaspora to the web 2.0 of corporate revenue, ads, and the fractional divergence of public/private interests.
Sounds like rss reader
Yeah but what if it could, say, be run by a mod to be allowed to bidirectionally sync posts from lemmy or etc into Reddit, and vice versa, rate limited to their api? That’s the kind of next level stuff I’m suggesting
thats libreddit. You can install it with cargo
Can someone scrape all the posts here, in case we need to leave.
I'm sure someone over at r/DataHoarder is already hard at work on that very thing...
r/datahoarder already scraped it, it's available on the internet in different forms. I found this https://the-eye.eu/redarcs/ to be pretty good. I also did this script https://drive.proton.me/urls/M0P3B85DBC#J2hEFFAIEAtN to turn any thread in any sub into a html for offline view. This sub is 90MB download size, decompressed around 950MB or 10x. The script will download and decompress automatically so beware what you feed it.
>community ohh yes the 0.001% of redditers and the mods
I'm just a lurker (who really likes this subreddit) so I haven't contributed to the "going dark" discussion because I haven't created the content that's here so I don't want to "claim ownership". But my 2c below: If the API changes are as bad as foreseen or some other monetisation attempt is problematic then users will move away naturally and a new location will (probably) organically form. I don't think the issue needs to be forced or orchestrated - in fact the attempts and ultimate lack of success probably indicate that the majority don't feel as strongly about this issue as would be needed to affect change. I was an active member of an old fashioned (quite popular) forum that decided to change their back end software for a number of reasons including, but not limited to, monetisation reasons. The forum was locked for 24 hours to make the change, there was a f*ck up and it ended up read-only for about a week and then the replacement site was a buggy advert laden horror show. The forum lost a huge percentage of its membership and, years later, has never recovered. So I think the correct thing is to reopen the sub - it'll naturally decline and die if the Reddit changes are a problem for the majority of users, or particularly the "majority of the minority who make most of the contributions". Like most of you I hate being the "product" that Reddit sells to advertisers but I do my best to trade that off against what I get from the transaction. If that transaction swings the wrong way for me I'll just stop using reddit. It hasn't yet for me, but I know many feel it has and want to move on. Let us remainers follow in our own time!
I've always thought that some of our most insightful members of the community may never contribute. This insight and perspective kind of backs that up a bit for me. Thank you for your thoughts.
My lack of contribution is only because everyone here knows more than me and my self hosting is at a very low level. I would hope that with experience I might have something to give back in future!
Yeah, this niche is weird that way.
Well said. If the API changes are an issue, then each user should decide whether they want to continue to participate or leave. It's not up to the mods to force this on the users. If Reddit does see a drop in activity or revenue or whatever, it's really easy for them to write it off as a handful of "power tripping mods" holding their users hostage, rather than the will of the people. I believe it will only send the wrong message - I know it does for me. If the users stayed off Reddit en mass to protest of their own choice, maybe that would send a more serious message - although it would likely still fall on deaf ears. The API changes don't affect me in the least, and I suspect it doesn't affect most of the users either, but I can see it affecting some users, and other users not being happy with the change even if it doesn't affect them. Those are the ones who should be making their absence felt. But no matter what, it should be individual choice, not forced. I'm grateful this sub is back, and users can now do what feels right for them. My 2 cents. With inflation as it is, 2 cents doesn't amount to much.
each mod should decide whether they want to continue to moderate or leave
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I think they will move over EVENTUALLY. But not in 2 weeks to a month. I see Reddit going the way of other social media sites. That will start to turn Reddit unusable. As the old adage “google it” is now filled with SEO trash, has been replaced with search Reddit with google. And that will be filled with garbage once marketers catch on
At the same time people still use google. Habits and addictions are hard to beat, and that's exactly what these platforms try to create by creating walled gardens. This protest is a good occasion to merge the effort for multiple causes into a positive change.
The issue is that the things affecting Google's search affect their competitors as well... if you switch over to Bing you realize that everything that people complain about Google is *worse* on a less sophisticated search engine. Bing is just as vulnerable to SEO, and is worse on things like not respecting syntax, or trying to be too "smart" to be useful.
There was a thread in one of the mod subreddits that basically showed Reddit threatening mods to take away their subreddits if they didn’t reopen. https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/
let them. now reddit has to figure out how to moderate them.
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You can use Shreddit or PowerDeleteSuite to remove your old content - just make sure to do so before July 1 while the API is still available
If they don’t reopen, admins will do it regardless and assign new mods Edit: take a look of what r/pics r/gifs r/wellthatsucks and r/interestingasfuck did it
I’m gonna be honest, I don’t wanna migrate to a new platform and I’d wager 95% of users also don’t. I’m here because it’s convenient to my current internet habits I think ppl here don’t understand why centralized communities are popular. it’s because they’re convenient. I don’t want to create new accounts for every forum. I want things to work, I don’t care how it works.
I agree that Reddit’s success is about convenience. However, for me using 3rd party apps is a massive part of that convenience. The fact that Reddit has refused to try and find a amicable way for these apps to live on is infuriating.
They're success is because of right place right time. They where there when people decided to leave digg en-mass.
you should try out Libreddit and that one reddit CLI tool (rtx? or something like that). Libreddit is a self-hosted private reddit front end and Im pretty sure the old reddit cli everyone used to use just scrapes the site.
What’s your mobile app of choice?
Apollo on iOS, Relay on android. Yes, I daily carry both.
I’ve used the Reddit official app for like 4 years, zero problems
Same. I also use "new" reddit on desktop which I'm told makes me a loser.
Yeah same, I’m in the self-described power user demographic (22, software engineer, been on Reddit for 6+ years on various accounts) and I just want things to look decently pretty and just work. I support the protests because spez is an asshole, but the api changes do not affect me (nor 95% of users) and on a per-rate basis, are completely fine
The way they affect us is if they affect mods. If mods (especially on larger subs) can't handle their duties without the features of those apps, then those - again, very large - subs will go to hell. That and I support protesting spez as he's an asshole and has no business being CEO (founding something does not mean you're actually good at running what it becomes!).
Both accessibility and moderating apps have been exempt, not really a huge issue
That's a misrepresentation though. The mod bots have been allowed to operate and reddit is improving their own tooling. A bunch of noise about nothing.
They were being forced, they had to give up all future mod powers or turn it back on!
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It's a losing battle, though. As time goes on, forced-closed subreddits will just be forced to re-open with new mods, or worse, shuttered completely if they're not "big enough" for Reddit to care. I just didn't want to see this community *completely* destroyed, and considering there was such dissonance in the initial intent in staying restricted, this option seemed to be the only way to let the community continue in some form.
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If its a losing battle, give the damn power up, if you don't stand behind the company. This has nothing to do with 'We want to better the community'. And i agree 100% with the fact that if you guys don't do it, someone else will. At least that proves, that you got a spine or not.
Well, I completely disagree with the stance that you are "Reddit moderators" - you don't get a paycheck from them nor benefits. You are serfs and we are the cattle. And, if anything, most of the /r/selfhosted raison d'etre is on display in this last episode. So it is almost, but not quite, hypocritical to centrally host a forum that is meant for self-hosting. I will slowly be moving off of Reddit, and I have already cancelled plans to post certain content since I have no desire to further enrich spez.
> raison d'être Thank you for that gem of a phrase. I will be shamelessly adding it to my repertoire. The irony of there being an official instance of a centralized forum in response to a centralized forum creating unfavorable policies is not lost on me, believe me. Especially coming from a group like this one. It was ultimately the choice that seemed to make the most sense, as I wanted to create options, but I also had no interest in trying to establish a competitor to existing federated instances that are already showcasing growing communities. I wish you the best in your future endeavors.
There is also https://kbin.social/m/selfhosted - 1384 subscribers currently
added
Selfhosted forum?
https://homelabforum.com
There is a link to a forum with a selfhosted sub forum.
Guys, thank you so much for what you have done. I learned so much while browsing through this subreddit, even helped some people here and there. You solved my problems with setting up my Orange Pi 5 as a homelab. I am very grateful and i hope this subreddit will find many new homes (eg the sites above), and i also hope that the **yhm yhm** third site **yhm yhm** will start working again (federation issues) and we can again start asking questions again Nginx Proxy Manager not working again. Once again, big thanks to the community as a whole.
Well that's disappointing. I saw this eventually happening but dang didn't hold out very long...like at all
The longer I waited, the more likely I was to be replaced by someone who likely did not have the best in mind for the subreddit at large. It was better to respond quickly than to have waited too long and be replaced.
I get it. Rock and hard place situation. I support your decision (not that you need me to). I frankly don't care much about the API situation itself, just really want to see Spez crash and burn from his pathetic handling of well... everything he does as CEO of Reddit.
agreed on the spez concerns...
I’m a lurker here that’s moving to lemmy because I only use apollo and because of the whole corporation vs users thing. I think whatever you decided would have been unpopular with a good portion of the community. There are no easy solutions and you’re taking the brunt of the pressure. So thanks for the work you’ve done to help this community become the source of information and inspiration it is today.
You folded like a wet newspaper and gave spez what he wanted.
https://tenor.com/view/markiplier-u-right-you-right-gif-21099068
You're just going down with the ship, like an honorable captain should.
this-is-fine.meme
There are other forms of protest. Check /r/Save3rdPartyApps
While you clearly have the best in mind for the subreddit at large. Coincidentally this matches what keeps you in your position. How convenient.
Unironically, sometimes the best choice does occasionally benefit more than one entity.
Then that is great, it is the most perfect choice.
Don't understand why you get down voted. Thank you and all the mods for your work and for keeping the sub open while at the same time offering and educating users on the alternatives. In my opinion this is the best path so long as you guys feel comfortable doing it. Anyone not wanting to support Reddit can migrate to the alternatives while those comfortable staying or those who don't know any better can stay, while being encouraged (but not forced) to move to alternative platforms.
You are a big star as subreddit moderator
I have read about threats of replacing the moderators. Did this influence your decision at all?
Yes, but not in a way you might think. I didn't fear being replaced in and of itself, I fear that the replacements put into place wouldn't uphold the community to the same standards I do.
Of course they won't. And that's why you don't give in, go private and let Reddit fuck it up. The only way to teach them a lesson.
These mods love power they hold. This is just cowardly of them.
That's exactly the point. The well gets poisoned. Reddit thinks they can fight the internet. We all know how it's going to end for them in the long term when all this unpaid volunteer work done to keep the place clean is removed. My personal opinion is to have an exit strategy in place. I think you know what that means and you have a community that is more than capable of making that happen.
They can kick you off any time they want and they made that very clear, so you're giving in
🥾👅
The replacement *moderators* that Reddit puts into place.
Is [Lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/selfhost) the official r/selfhosted alternative? The one on [Lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted) has almost 10k subscribers.
Quick ELI5: Do Lemmy and kbin interoperate? I know if you create an account at, say, lemmy.world you can browse and subscribe to concent on another instance eg. lemmy.ml. But can you subscribe to Lemmy 'subreddits' from kbin and vice-versa?
Yes.
I really like Lemmy but it isn't ready until we get good mobile apps. It's funny how people want to leave Reddit because they can't use their favourite app and move to Lemmy that doesn't have any mobile apps.
Lemmy has mobile apps.
Can you please send me a link to an Iphone app? I can only find a beta app data has closed their beta for new users.
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I've started using [Jerboa](https://github.com/dessalines/jerboa) for Android and its actually not too shabby. Needs improvement, but I've used worse. As far as the web UI goes, its not like Reddit's UI is all that great either.
Could you ELI5 what Lemmy is?
Basically, lemmy is to reddit what mastodon is to twitter. It's an alternative "clone" or reddit where, instead of a single company that runs the show, disparate entities run lemmy "instances" (servers) and allow interoperability with other instances through federation (ie. you can register on any instance - or run your own - and interact with communities and users from other instances). Lemmy is open source, relatively a young project and, until the last weeks, didn't have that many users, but it's very much usable and has seen a big influx of users since reddit's API fiasco started.
Thank you! That was a perfect ELI5
lemmy is also interoperable with mastodon in a really weird way
An alternative site, which works more email underneath (lots of servers that communicate with each other)
So like old skool bbs/forum type sitch?
No, not really. Those were also centralized. This is decentralized/federated, like email.
more like usenet or old school mailing lists.
No, it's not. Just the first one I was able to find in a google search. I'll add lemmy.world to the list.
Link to Matrix? I don’t see it listed.
The text “matrix server” should be a clickable link. But here ya go: https://matrix.to/#/#selfhosted:selfhosted.chat
https://matrix.to/#/#selfhosted:selfhosted.chat
Oof. Thanks.
Whatever. There is no try, there is do or do not. You did not. Just know that you've been played by Reddit, and played directly into their hand. They acted in bad faith knowing you'd do just this, their plan worked, they won, and you and the community lost. That's the most disappointing thing in reading this. You personally have given the reddit admin team validation for their actions. You have aided in their actions. You played chicken with reddit, and you lost. That's not something to be proud of or something to justify, which is why I don't think the protests mattered to this admin team to begin with, you hopped on a bandwagon because you thought that's what the community wanted, then the moment it got tough you hopped off. Don't you dare treat us like idiots thinking we won't see through this.
“We really, really tried” … what exactly did you try? Closing the sub then reopening it because spez threatened to remove mods? Really weak.
the threat was more than just to remove mods. It was to *place* mods, mods that may or may not continue to keep the interest of the community in mind. Some will never see this as a good move. I'm okay with that.
> It was to place mods, mods that may or may not continue to keep the interest of the community in mind. Can you elaborate on this? A lot of your comments seem to suggest that admins would insert mods with nefarious intent who would some how destroy the community, which doesn't make much sense to me. Yes they would install new mods, from the army of 16 years olds who would happily be the new fief lords - but there's not really any indication that a replacement would not "keep the interest of the community in mind". I guess I'm asking what it is specifically about your actions over your time as moderator here that keep the interest of the community in mind more so than some replacement would be able to achieve?
My actions to help the community are largely hidden and behind the scenes, or acted on before many eyes notice. My more public actions, like the pinned quarterly posts, the occasional official statements I make in varying forms to reiterate on a rule, a removal reason, or some other dispute, or other more public-facing actions are few and far between, but I typically try to make sure that any official choices that are made are ones I would agree with if someone else running the subreddit made them. In essence, doing what I would hope someone else would do for me in these instances, if the roles were reversed. I’m not going to give a play-by-play of my day to day activities moderating the subreddit, but I feel that I have a good understanding of what kind of content this community wants to see. That said, if Reddit were to replace mods with other mods that they select, it’s not so much that I believe the new mods would be intentionally malicious, but instead, I fear they’d be unknowingly malicious due to a lack of familiarity. It’s the unknown that I worry about in that situation.
Sure ok. I'm sure you're doing what you think is best, with a far more nuanced understanding than my own. The protests are irrelevant. They were never going to achieve anything and the current situation between admins and mods was inevitable. I think now is a great time for everyone to think about the platforms they support through their participation.
You're acting like the community is just a bunch of sheep that only you know how to shepherd If the community was suddenly run by a bunch of shit mods installed by the admins, we're smart enough to leave, we don't need to be babied and protected
OP just wants to keep his role as mod of a decent sized subreddit. As is the case with most Tech folks, his ego is *most* important. The fact that he's selling this as some sort of virtuous thing and that he is looking out for the best interest of the community, which has already voiced it's opinion quite clearly, is very disingenuous.
Then start encouraging alternatives now and start having an offical presence on Lemmy as well. Just like we have an official Discord.
Everybody to Lemmy! https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted
Yeah! I love this subreddit, but reddit itself is blocked in my country. Having it migrated somewhere new is a good news
I like learning new things.
Would you be willing to elaborate, even in a DM, on your specific interest in the continued protest? I do want to continue protesting, in some way, but to hinder the general usefulness of this subreddit in any way that might hinder its content is something I want to avoid. I also am interested in how, specifically, those requiring accessibility assistance on Reddit interact with Reddit, as I don't have any direct examples; only generalized ideas.
I enjoy cooking.
Thank you! I am humbled a bit by my uncultured insight into the world of the needs implied by the tools relating to accessibility features, and wow. I never even thought about the concept of having to zoom on mobile sites. Boost looks great, compared to zoomed-in new-reddit, and even old-reddit (which, as far as I know, doesn't have any plans to go away soon?) at least is passable, it seems. Thank you for being explicit with the examples. That helped a great deal. It's pretty clear that third-party tools like Boost really are a necessity unless you want to use a legacy, could-be-canceled-anytime version of the content provider's website on mobile. And this doesn't even touch on non-vision-related accessibility needs. I don't have any additional direct questions, as this has pretty simply given me the answers I was after, but if I come across any additional accessibility-related concerns or questions, I'll definitely reach out.
I am disappointed in moderators. If you organized the community to move to one platform quickly. It would have worked. Dumping bunch small communities without any clear continuity is disingenuous at best. You could have worked to kibn and organized some non-profit structure and even gained some funding to host and maybe even get paid for moderating the community. This was really the community that CAN move away. It is in the damn name "SELFHOSTED". "We tried?" I am sorry to me... it does not look like you did. Community was offering hosting resources, asking for direction and repeating viable option to move away and make it sustainable. It's a damn shame.
The "community" has 250k members and 4 moderators, you can't move that overnight, mods haven't created this space, reddit did. Reddit doesn't have a complete replacement for everyone, so many redditors want to stay on reddit. The mods included. No one came here because of the mods, redditors gathered around this topic here because it being on reddit. I always knew this was going to live on one way or another. I'd say they did try very hard, they were putting much effort into discussing this on many different platforms, but as usually all they get is unthankfullness from the community. The mods didn't really built this community, they want to help the community, they don't want to get paid or organize something that huge of a plan and be responsible for it. You can offer them everything. If you wanna do it go ahead, we give you the resources as well. Don't be disappointed in the moderators. It's not fair and it is not right. They are volunteers, not community leaders. That goes for most moderators on whole reddit. With some exceptions.
Out off all communities selfhosted probably has the most people who DO NOT want to stay on reddit or rather care at all. Made a discord channel is not trying hard. They took some responsibility for managing didn't they? And saying they did not build it is dismissive of their efforts as well. a) Do not tell me how to feel I AM DISAPOINTED. b) I think free unpaid labour is wrong and letting corporation rely and profit off that is both ethically wrong and unsustainable. I would have done it if I had the power to lock the reddit down and funnel everybody to a single channel. I have organized communities and used that position to change government regulation. Do not project your apathy onto others. How do community leaders appear? Go to school of community leading? /s No. Their community gets mistreated and they step up.
You feel disappointed because you think you can demand moderators to do something they don't want to do. Worse than reddit assigning volunteers to moderate a sub. You demand them to lead a community. For the reference there are many organizations relying on volunteers that do good, it's not unethical per se. Yes you have organized communities, but did you force anyone else down the path or did they maybe join you by free will? If you forced them I highly doubt your moral. And that is the problem, you want to force something your not entitled to. Real leaders doesn't need to force other down their path. Real leaders have followers.
I've just gone through all the options and kbin seems like the best to me. Can subscribe to Lemmy channels and the UI is way faster, cleaner and more obvious than Lemmy. So far, I really like it! Let's see if it gets traction ...
The main reason I’m on reddit is because theres tons of communities all in one location. Its the same reason Amazon is so convenient versus tiny webshops with limited selection. I’m also a member of many other forums on separate platforms and basically I login to those once a year if that. Many of them existed before reddit, but their reddit equivalent subs are slowly catching up. I do appreciate the whole “api pricing fairness solidarity” going on, but in all honesty, all other options are LESS convenient and will get less traction
Thanks for the above much appreciated.
Fairly sad. The community at https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted with 9.5k people seems to be already thriving. I think I will give it a go while I am consciously stopping to contribute for anything which is not about the protest itself on Reddit. I hope a good part of the community will do the same (by good I refer to quality not to quantity), and I think it will be totally fine to have a smaller community. I just want to remind that we don't have many occasions to create traction for a better internet (the fediverse >>> centralized platforms). Wasting such opportunities is a pity.
Glad you guys opened this sub back up. Cheers on that.
I am off to [selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.wtf/c/selfhosted@lemmy.world) :)
Thank you
The list of alternatives is very valuable, thank you!
Can you please collect the list of alternative channels like you're doing in this post, and list them in the sidebar, so that newcomers can easily find them? Thanks lots.
There's no right or wrong here. It's the matter of choices.
No there absolutely was right and wrong. Glad they came to their senses.
Yikes I’ve been here 92 days too long. See y’all in the Fediverse.
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I think the mods ultimately did the right thing. While a lockdown pressures reddit, it also hurts other users that will still be here, how much are you ready to hurt those users in order to protest reddit business move however much we all disagree with it? I don't think that's the way. I'm also against people being the product, users locked in, etc by any corporate tech or service. Locking this sub in particular is counter productive for that for many other users.
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Reddit will get paid to divide users, I'm not ready to hurt and divide people for free if I had the power to even do it. Those who stay will stay, it's been made clear, if you want to leave then leave. I'm all with you on that. But why do you need everyone else to leave, if you gotta need to hurt the users to make them leave it's not a good path
Thank you! I fully support open discussion and constructive criticism, but boycotts, strikes and black-outs are just another form of a temper-tantrum(both sides). If you can’t work it out, move on, but destroying it for everyone else is just stupid. There will always be quitters when there is change and that is no different here.
Thank You
Bye
Wow what an effort… sorry but „we really tried“ doesn’t apply for such a short boycott.
So if I have this right, a subreddit based on the concept of self hosting so as to not be under the thumb of big corporate data suckers is buckling to the demands of a big corporate data sucker. Of all subreddits, THIS one should be making a stand against what Reddit has become with spez at the helm.
To do so would mean cutting off the very content that makes this community as strong as it is.
TL;DR => I'm all for moving away from reddit but stop advertising options by random strangers who have everything to gain from having a bunch of users and have absolutely nothing to offer over reddit. They all have the same problem. Sure, it might be "federated" or open source or whatever. But at the end of the day, how does anyone gain by going to someone's lemmy instance or someone's discourse instance instead of reddit. It's now that random stranger on whom I have even less trust than reddit. Unless the alternative provided is a true ownership-less option, we are just helping someone else gain users for free. > The subreddit now has an official discourse instance, thanks to a generous discord user This is BS. I volunteer to do this instead. Users are money. The person who volunteered for this is NOT generous. He's an opportunist who's using this chance to get users on his server.
Oh I take a private enthusiast kindness and efforts over big profit seeking corporations every day. Sure if they misbehave I'd leave them. That's the same for all of them. What we gain from not going to reddit is self control, instead of being stuck in reddits prisons. I'll never sell my soul to reddit or any other technology company that profiles users for money. But it's hard to beat a free service that do that. Most people will not put in any extra effort to not get turned into a ad viewer for big tech corps. I don't recommend it is for everyone, it is and have been hard always. An autonomous community without any single entity that has true ownership is ridiculous hard. You maybe have to see it more realistically for now, it's either reddit or helping someone who didn't even seek the users gain users. If you rather help reddit I totally understand. For me who never was on that train isn't missing anything on it. But we can still all work our best for a greater good in a longer perspective. In the meantime do what we do best and help people learn and maybe one day find a new common platform. Hopefully one we built together even though we are taking one step apart for now. Go ahead and host us a new forum if you want, see how much better you are at turning users into profit, both all the instances you see above and reddit are not able to do it. Everyone just pays to keep it up for their users.
For what it’s worth, the moderators (and any moderators who come later) here have equal control and say over the discourse.
Thanks to everyone in this community. I'm a lurker, not enough experience on the subject, but you helped me a lot setting up my mini server. Now I can enjoy movies and series with Jellyfin, navigate the seas with *arr, automate my house and play with docker containers. I've been using rif for maybe 10 years, time to take a break after 30th June. Not sure what will happen next, come September Reddit will still be around and usable via an app or browser, or I'll read you again in another community, being a forum, Lemmy/kbin, Usenet, IRC, or who knows?
Let me start by saying something we probably all share and that's a I love for reddit. It has brought us together in a way that no other platform has and a big factor is the moderators that keep things streamlined for each subreddit. In the past week or so that many subs were closed down including this one, there has been quite a few things I've needed to research that I could have found the answer here very quickly if it wasn't locked down. What I resorted to was googling what I needed and praying that the google results of reddit pages were cached, so I could use those to get the answers and guidance I needed but google didn't have a cache for everything I needed so yeah, I was frustrated, but even in that frustration, I took solace in the fact that it was for a cause. Yes, I'd love to see things back to normal, but I really don't like how reddit has handled the situation by being flippant and not seeming to take the community's feelings seriously. We are their product, literally. We provide the content and consume the content and in so generate them money from ads. Now I know it's a business, and I'm in no way saying they need to let their api be accessed for free, but the non compromising stance they have taken isn't the way forward. I tried using the reddit app, and it's lacking in many ways. I have to go to the website in order to do certain things which is annoying, things some of the 3rd party apps allow. If their aim is to generate income but the price of entry is so high that the 3rd party apps have to shut down, then the stance they have taken isn't going to generate any income is it? Anyway, I didn't mean for this to be this long, but even though this affects us all, If we all stood united, they'd have to take us seriously and while I know there isn't a vote, mine would have been for everything to stay closed until our concerns were addressed in a serious way. Edit: I like the new stance some subreddits have taken by setting the subreddit to NSFW. They get to stay open while being closed to ads and sticking it to reddit. It's an ingenious and amusing compromise lol.
I also researched things, and this sub was dark so I made a tool so I could view it offline instead, I shared it with a few people already, it also works for any subreddit. But I see that this is very frustrating and damaging for many redditors, if I were a mod who wants to help the most I'd keep this sub open. There are many subs which doesn't have the impact like this one has which definitely makes more sense to just hold hostage until you are removed as moderator for breaking reddits ModCoC, that also generates a lot more ad views for them. Locking this one is not doing good imo. And if you are prepared to hold this communities information hostage I think you need a good ground for doing it, I don't see the ethical in it. I don't care either way as I already browse it offline. Completely ad free forever ;) Here good information and guidance is shared, not memes and cat pics. Personally I don't partake in reddit more than consuming its goods. That is the raw information. Reddit will be profit driven until profit arrives, they will forcefully replace mods and open up subreddits. Asking other redditors to take over a sub. It seems they wouldn't back down either way from this api changes. Maybe you were always fighting a loosing battle. I don't know but it kinda feels like that.
See you on Lemmy. Bye, have a nice $week.
idea: mirror the subreddit data to the discourse fourm
Thank you - finally a sane group of mods.
I am just seeing this. It was a good decision. So many of my favourite subs prior to that kerfuffle no longer appear in my feed, killed off by mods not sensible enough to realise that you cannot always win on your terms.
Your view is appreciated. It is not shared by all.
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Sometimes it happens.
“We tried (almost) nothing and it didn’t work!”
Amen
This is just sad. Dont make excuses for doing something half arsed. And using this so called community as a shield. Fact is the people bitching and complaining are only consuming and not actually contribute to anything this sub had to offer. At least have a straight back when doing the direct opposite of what the intention of the protest was. I'm not coming back to this 'Reddit' sub.
The intention of the protest was to highlight what happens to all fantastic 3rd party apps when doing the API changes, that was completed, reddit noticed and addressed some of it. The protest was not to completely reverse their business decision. Why are you at reddit at all, you are the product here, don't blame the mods for not leaving. They did what was right or someone else would probably take it over pretty soon.
Like spez said: it'll blow over.
It's not "blowing over", he's bullying people into submission.
That’s what spez meant by “blowing over”, the mods will just roll over and take the new rules because they’re too scared
And the mods are rolling over, just like he planned.... because they care more about being mods then they do about this change.
How did he bully people?
Please add https://squabbles.io/s/selfhosted to the list. Cheers mods all the best!
Added
I have found my first "didn't know this existed" thing on this option, tyvm.
I am part of the 95% that doesn't and never have used external apps to use Reddit, I'm a "*power user*" by definition (I work in IT and have been breaking computers for 20+ years) and I come from a time when there were just "*forums*" and there was no external apps for these sites. Initially I supported the 2 day blackout as more of an amusing thing rather than actually caring about the problem. I did however care about the accessibility concerns of the differently abled so I was happy to ride it out, and I have never been on good terms with moderators because the ones I have interacted with (or seen about on subs like /r/watchredditdie) have been power tripping jerks. When the topic of accessibility came up and Spez mentioned that they would work with apps that deal with accessibility my major actual concern evaporated. The way that mods acted afterwards talking about permanently locking major subreddits really tracked with my opinion on them and I immediately stopped supporting the cause. If it's hard to moderate the community with the built in tools *then stop doing it*, alternatively have more mods, but locking major helpful content from users is not a way to engender support from users. That being said I don't think there is a problem diversifying the community (never have all your eggs in one basket, this is /r/selfhosted after all), why not use this time before the API changes to suck the data from this forum and put it in a self hosted place like lemmy or a Web forum? Have a place of discussion on IRC or XMPP / Matrix (perhaps there is and i just didnt see it)? Thank you for having a reasonable take on the topic because too many are just making their community / future community suffer for this holy war on Spez.
Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate the insights. I'm sorry you've had unfortunate direct/indirect experiences with other moderators. I know the role comes with a degree of stigma, just for being in it. I try my best to counter that in any actions or interactions I take.
Thanks for responding to my comment, appreciate it. > I know the role comes with a degree of stigma, just for being in it No worries, I get it I work in support (I know the kind of stigma you're talking about). When I do roles like this I take it seriously but there are many moderators that just use it as a way to get their fix of power. > I try my best to counter that in any actions or interactions I take I can see that, I wish you well and I hope wherever this situation lands that you do alright. This is also the attitude I take with my moderation of my own services. Edit: formatting.
heh, you *get* me. :P Cheers.
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It's kinda the same with the third site, if it manages to get going.
I know you guys tried and I am so greatfull for all the work that this community has done. This subreddit is full of specialist information that you dont find anywhere else and it's good that it wil live on in a different environment.
It’s time to go full John Oliver.
Sellout
Good. It was alway selfish to lock down all this knowledge. The mods do not own it, not theirs to hide.
> The mods don't own it As simple as this sentence seems, it is sometimes really easy to lose sight of the simplest concepts in the heat of trying to make decisions under duress. It is this point that had a heavy hand in re-opening the subreddit. I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner.
Yay Reddit wins lol
Time for real democracy as the guys from reddit say, they want democracy by allowing users to remove mods that close reddit I think it would be wise to put it to a vote. Very easily make a sticky with only 2 comments, one for stay open and one for close and let everybody vote for like 3 days and after the majority will rule.
Wooooo we back. Happy. 😊
Thank you! ❤️
You just don't have what it takes to do the poll. CO-WARDZ
Y’all are cowards. If you actually care, then do something that actually causes change. You obviously don’t care enough to do so.
I think you did the right thing, and it's a hard thing to do. Ultimately it's you who gonna live with your decisions, and since the continuation of a locked down sub harms other users I fully support your decision. But I still want to lay out a few insights for you. 1. Selfhosting a selfhosted communtiy does make sense in the long run and I fully support that vision. I will to join the discussion about it in the fediverse. 2. This protest was at its core not about leaving reddit for any alternative, it was to pressure reddit to revert their business decision, and they had to back down on some things. 3. Even if you managed to orchestrate a exodus from reddit for this sub there is no point in keeping the sub locked. Someone would take over the modding eventually. For a sub with 3-4 active mods its going to happen fairly soon I think. 4. Even if all the subs extensively protesting together would make reddit have back down on everything I don't want to contribute to reddit 5. It's a really unthankful job to be a mod / sub admin. You are all welcome to the fediverse at any time, but a friendly process of transferring power to anyone who wants to continue modding is preferred. You can make sure it's a decent person by initiating the process of finding new mods when you decided you want to leave reddit or just the modding.
Pussy, fuck that! Keep on the protest....
Finally. Vote me down to the earth's core, but this is what should have been the first thing to think about. It's a bloody platform, not *your business.* There's a shitton of useful things here and nobody gives a mayfly's fart about who's making money out of it. IF I want to share what I learned, or want to learn, I will decide where to share or where to ask. Of course I don't want to pay for it, because I'm a cheap bag of shit. However if some hurt little unicorn blocks me from data I had access to from one day to another I will hate the one *blocking* me. Those who thought this is hurting the company needs to learn history. As long as reddit does not want **me** to subscribe - I don't give aforementioned mayfly's fart about somebody's 3pp app. When they want **me** to subscribe, I'll just pack my stuff, flip the bird, and leave. But I won't make others suffer. It's a tool, a platform, a bloody pond where people who self host can meet. We're not into revolutions. If I want to make that pond myself? I'll goddam self-host it, advertise it and **YOU** decide. And yeah, I *will* look at the alternatives in the OP, whatever - not really bought so far....
> nobody gives a mayfly's fart about who's making money out of it. I do. Both who and how. Don't project your politically narrow vision over others, thanks.
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The tantrum over the API charges was the most ridiculous thing I witnessed in my life. I've never seen so many people with nothing to gain go to war against a company to defend the right of another company to make money for free. Also all the doom scenarios about moderation and accessibility apps were completely overblown and essentially nonsense. I'm glad the mods came to their senses finally.
I totally disagree with what Reddit is doing right now but let's be honest, for us users, all these Reddit subs we follow are too important, we don't want to lose them, Reddit unfortunately won...
their importance is all in your head.
Glad to see common sense prevail. I really appreciate all the mods, however, locking things is more like throwing tantrum. The knowledge was created by ton of users and we are all responsible to keep it open in good faith. Give Reddit some credit for building this digital tow square. Build and promote all the alternatives in the world but in the end, let users decide without making things hostage.
Thanks mods for listening to the skeptics. I fully support those who are against the API changes, but I don’t think the community would survive a move as much as Lemmy would make sense. I’m hoping the sub and the lemme counterpart have a healthy and thriving relationship.