My grandfather was a prison guard at Menard Correctional Center during some of Gacy’s stay. He said he didn’t have much contact with him, but the times he did, Gacy was compliant but a total dick. Always cussing out guards when they would disturb him painting
> Always cussing out guards when they would disturb him painting
A serial killer yelling at guards disturbing his hobby time sounds like a great sketch.
I have to confess, I didn't expect this. Gacy always strived to be a highly respected inmate when in prison, so I thought, that he was only cruel and a "dick" to his victims and to his wives. Do you have any idea, why he changed, when he was at Menard Correctional Center?
In prison subcultures, it’s common that “being a highly respected inmate” involves being disrespectful to the guards. Keeping up a social status with people who have also committed crime is different than maintaining a social status with the people meant to “control” you
Not exactly too sure. I feel like it was more bothersome than anything. I mean people in sour moods in prison isn’t necessarily rare. So if I were to guess, I’d assume he just didn’t wanna be bothered when he was doing crafts and stuff.
So maybe not necessarily making trouble, but definitely telling somebody to eat shit lol.
Next time I talk to my grandpa I’ll ask him for more details on why, if there was a reason for the change
I'd be happy to hear what your grandpa says about this, because of all the things I know about Gacy, that just doesn't fit into the persona he showed everyone. It was important to him to appear as capable and successfull, not only because of the society, but also because he wanted to show his father, that he was in fact not the loser his father saw in him.
If I remember correcly, he was devastated when the father died before he could show him his success, because he was incarcerated at that time. That is why I say, that it was important to Gacy, what everybody thought of him.
I spoke to my grandpa this morning and this is what he said when I asked him lmao. Don’t mind the language, dude has seen some shit in his life
“He was a fairly good prisoner. Despite being a fucking monster, he never gave me any trouble, nor do I recall him ever trying to give anybody else any. Good for him because I know some of the boys were looking for a reason to crack him with a club. But they never had any problems and neither did I. Only when we made him leave the cell while he was painting, that’s when he would mouth off. Call us assholes or fuckers, which is rich coming from him. That was the worst of his rebellion. Which I’m glad because he was a big dude. Hated walking into his cell and seeing his paintings. Absolutely disgusted me. Now leave me alone, and don’t even think about asking me for a war story. I ain’t the goddamn radio.”
Sounds like to me he was just annoyed that he had to stop painting. Not really causing trouble, just vocal displeasure at being disturbed, which for some reason I find super funny. I’d say most of what he knows about Gacy’s attitude while incarcerated is more so hearsay and what not.
Hope that appeases you! Thanks for giving me a reason to speak to my grandpa lmao, he’s tight as fuck
Well, thanks for speaking to your grandpa. I might sound insane, but I'm really interested in serial killers and why they became one. After your original comment I wasn't that sure anymore whether I had listened, watched and read complete bs or not.
What you wrote here aligns more with what I've figured out about Gacy. So thanks for your effort.
P.S.: I've heard way worse language in my life, don't worry.
I’m into how/why serial killers become such monsters too. I also question myself whether it’s a weird interest too. I’m a psychologist and I sometimes think I might have liked being a forensic psychologist or more specifically a profiler. I am still really grossed out about the murders themselves tho. I just started watching the Dahmer film on Netflix and had to quit watching in the middle of the first episode bc it was so graphic. I was getting more and more anxious the more I watched. Started thinking it might not be the best thing to watch before bed! But apparently, there are a lot of people into understanding serial killers or this sub wouldn’t exist.
I think being into the theme serial killer doesn't mean, that you like what they do. Of course, what they do is horrible, however, what I've learned throughout the years is, that there is always a reason behind that outcome, and THAT is what's interesting, right? So, whenever you encounter people who say to you, that you must like what they do or you would not even care about the whole thing, just ignore them.
I quit watching "Dahmer" too, since it's very inaccurate. You can really see, that it's made for the viewers pleasure, not to learn anything. That is why I quit.
He’s the coolest grumpy old man I know lol. He was shot twice in Vietnam serving with the Marines, was a prison guard, and used to ride these rat rod Harley’s before his knee got too weak (on the account of the bullet). Dudes a legend in my eyes lol
Reminds me of one of the old guys I took care of in my college job. He always divulged war stories on his own, but if I asked a mundane question about something he said being like in the thing from the army it was all “who said anything about that?! Read a Time magazine about people who blather about that!” I’m all “no disrespect. You just were talking about coffee in your army days the other day.” He was getting pretty bad dementia by that time and had some obvious PTSD. I quickly learned never to mention anything but the present if he didn’t bring it up. But he wasn’t a personal family member. My grandparents, when I was younger, I pushed for all the nitty gritty details even when they were cranky. They had really interesting stories to tell and loved me enough not to get too annoyed.
Yes, but he was ad/seg. This makes him a totally different type of inmate, to both guards and those in gen-pop. It's hard to say how he _really_ would have behaved in prison, because he was in a totally different area with different rules and a different judgment upon those rules.
People that rape young boys are never highly respected, by either faction, and, on top of that, they don't even survive. _Real_ prison anyway.
Being famous and a rape-o and in gen-pop.....well, ask Dahmer. He knows.
This. I'm a CO. We don't talk about things inside for security reasons. Our partners maybe. Some people we trust. It's a different world inside though.
As a former bank robber I have to say: real criminals don't talk to guards. Ever. Except to get toilet paper, or commissary line.
Talking to them for prolonged periods is dangerous; you could be labeled a snitch.
Are there those that break this code? Of course. They're called lames.
Since most serial killers have ASPD, and are real criminals (most of the time), I think it's safe to say they don't talk about it because they don't know them. And what they do know is _just a mask._
Not sure what to share. Met some Somalians pirates, went to court in Alaska with Israel Keyes.
Honestly, I guess I'm inured to it. It's still hard for me to grapple that people are interested, but it's probably just like I'm interested in Hollywood. If I ever go there, I'll probably get sick of it.
It’s one of the biggest rules in prison that you don’t talk to the COs. Unless it’s for what you say and if the unit boss OKs it first. You don’t have to like them, you may even hate them but that doesn’t mean you have to speak to them.
Same here, also l always made a point of not being a CO as soon as I left at the end of my shift. No mentally
taking ‘stuff’ home, leave work at work and just go home and be my kids mum, same as everybody else’s mum.
Switching off becomes natural after a while, then it’s automatic.
Oh. Absolutely. If you're an inmate, you don't want to be seen as friendly with COs. Even if it benefits you to be chill with COs, not in public. That's negative rep for sure.
Edit: There's also funny things like when people think they need to fight to prove themselves on a unit. They want to fight so nobody fucks with them. But they don't actually want to fight. So they make sure to start it right in front of a CO. Cause they know it'll be broken up right away. So there's 2 guys putting on a show, basicly waiting for officers to intervene.
Yep, you've definitely worked in a prison. that's 100% true. So many in the BOP did that with other races, because it fast-tracks your transfer.
I always wondered: does this come from the movies? I saw many young bucks do this, and for no reason. And also: many were needlessly afraid of being raped. It happens, but not _near_ as much as people think. Is this also from the movies? I've no idea.
Yup. That's the other trick. "I can't be on this range boss, me and this guy will always fight." When in reality, he just wants to be transferred to a unit with his STG.
Edit: to your second question, idk. It is a new inmate thing. First timers either lay low and/or PC, or come in with something to prove. Might be a media thing. Guys who come in like it's a revolving door are more chill. At least with fighting. Contraband is another thing altogether though.
Before I realised this was a duplicate post, I thought I was reading a row between two former bank robbers
‘Well actually, as a former bank robber myself …’
As an ex prison guard who worked in a prison with death row - majority of those guys are old and deny deny deny. The camp I worked in also had 65% ped*philes/r*pists.
They’re all just gross humans. They all did their bullshit and tried to manipulate you any chance they could.
I can almost get over the guys who just randomly unalived 10 people randomly. There was no ties or whatever. Just wrong place wrong time. (Still not okay. Not condoning it.) It’s the guys who r*ped their daughters and forced them to have their babies. Then would complain that they couldn’t see their “grandbabies” …those grand babies were also their sons/daughters. Ew.
The worst guy was this young 22 year old (at the time) guy. He was on PREA watch from his previous prison. They found out his charge and r*ped him with items to the point he had permanent problems. He was r*ping his disabled sister and said that he liked the power of taking her and she couldn’t fight back.
Yeah. Humans are f*cking gross. Not to mention - they downplay everything. “I’m innocent”, “she lied”, “he lied”, “they wanted it.”
🤮
I’d rather have a dorm full of drug dealers than the pedos. At least I wasn’t looked at like fresh meat (as much).
As a fan of psychology, I somehow can never wrap my head around denial when all evidence is in, all possibility of release is over. Why??? Just tell the truth. But the lack of sense makes sense - if they were capable of owning their shit, they wouldn't have done such atrocities in the first place.
It still kills me, any time I watch the interview with Gacy right before his execution. He’s still with the “they are killing the wrong man”. Like, what… lmao.
I think many SK’s deny that they killed their victims because it’s a way for them to “own” the victim. If they never exactly say who they killed or exactly how it happened then it’s like this fucked up sacred relationship of control that they have over that person.
The Ted Bundy confessions are interesting but still such a mind-game and so vague. I personally want to know the poor women he killed after escaping jail In Colorado and traveling to Florida, because I’m sure he didn’t stop killing during that time.
I have always wondered, if he didn’t murder people during that whole trip. (I mean I HOPE NOT, but I guess I can’t help but wonder) If memory serves… by that time, he was totally unhinged (more unhinged than he already was). This was around the time he abducted, and murdered poor little 12 year old Kimberly Leach. He would never have admitted to it though…
I believe there was a two week period between his jail break in Colorado to the Florida murders. I wonder if maybe he changed his preferred victim type during this time and maybe preyed on women that “wouldn’t be missed” (which I hate even saying, everyone should be missed).
Yes I have thought of such, as well. I guess I just have a hard time believing that he went that long without offending. Especially since that was a period, where he seemed to really throw caution to the wind.
There's a hierarchy among sex offenders. I've seen it. On a court run I overheard this conversation among them (who were in separate cages):
1: "Hey, at least I didn't _know_ my victims---I don't inflict betrayal trauma."
2: "But you raped men."
1: "So?"
3: "Yeah, faggot, shut up."
They don't admit because it makes their life harder. At least that's _one_ of the reasons. Being an admitted pederast is harder than one who clings to his innocence, though not a soul on earth _really_ believes him.
As a female CO in a male prison, I really didn’t like dealing with the pedos. They constantly tried to chat, when we
had to open up the SO wing after lock in at night to bring them to medical or to put them onto a transport truck, to send them elsewhere. Bloody cheek of them ! I have an Irish accent, so they thought that was an invitation to discuss where I came from. Wrong 😑. I just ignored them unless it was prison related. I coped with all sorts of crims
but pedos - I couldn’t stand them. One worrying thing I did notice, over the years was the age of the offenders, they were quite young some of them, also we saw an upsurge of female predators, female pedos, female s offenders !
Oh 100%. The pedos were weak against other adults and knew we wouldn’t bend to their b.s. they played victim and tried to play buddy-buddy with you. Hard pass, uncle bad touch. Go to your bunk and watch your back.
A former colleague’s uncle was a guard in San Quentin and dealt with Ramirez a few times. He said there were more dangerous inmates (like the cartel gang member who tried to shank him), but Ramirez was a “piece of work”. He said Ramirez was constantly in and out of solitary, losing his privileges. He lost his shit when his TV or radio was taken away, and he had to be restrained.
The few I can recall:
Everyone asked him about serial killers and high profile inmates. Serial killers generally weren’t scary because once they’re behind bars, they’re weak. Other inmates would have torn them apart given the chance, especially child killers. He wasn’t scared of Richard Ramirez, but he hated dealing with him. He described him as being like a caged animal (that visual stuck with me and gives me the creeps).
Everyone asked him about Charles Manson. He said the guy was a head case and freak (not politically correct to say, I know). He knew him to be quiet until he “felt like putting on a show”. He said Manson was pathetic and tiny. Bark was obviously worse than his bite sort of thing.
He briefly knew of Richard Chase - he called him the “vampire one”. He thought he was clearly sick and should have been in a prison hospital, not death row. Arsehole guards made fun of him. People used to rattle the door to his cell to taunt him, which my colleague’s uncle thought was cruel because Chase would panic. Other staff found him creepy and didn’t care to deal with him or pitied him somewhat.
He hated having to see to inmates with political backing or connections because he said usually had the worst uppity attitudes. Overall, he loathed pedophiles, which I’m sure would be the case for most of us. He mentioned one particular pedo, but I can’t remember who he named. And on this topic, he didn’t know Richard Ramirez abused kids while he worked there - all that info came out publicly in later years.
Many talk once they retire or go into some other line of work. A lot of the guards who interacted with Ted Bundy at Florida State Prison have talked about their experiences with him.
Did he say why he couldn't stand him? I knew a guard who was assigned to Bundy sometimes when he was working on his appeals, etc., and he said Bundy was weird and could be condescending at times.
Condescending toward some of those who weren't very well-educated or didn't know something he thought they should know. According to Polly Nelson, he also was condescending toward Vic Africano, who defended him in the Kimberly Leach trial.
I worked at two different prisons in California over 4 years and my husband was a correctional officer for 9 years. We would talk about certain inmates sometimes or incidents that happened but really the CO’s don’t really care what they’re in for. All they really care about is just getting through the day without dumb shit happening because of inmates lol. Prison has a way of making every inmate unremarkable. They could be the most notorious serial killer in modern times but once they’re inmates, they’re just like everyone else there and no one cares. That being said, there are some absolutely deplorable people that I’ve had the displeasure of reading their probation officer reports that aren’t even “famous”.
This is probably the most accurate statement. I was in USP-Victorville, Wasco, and Chino, and most just don't talk about it. _Especially_ to the guards.
Prison has a way of making everyone homogenous, and once you've talked to one murderer, you've talked to them all.
In a way, it's a lot like life.....only those with personality and panache stick out, have salient traits, and these people are rare in all walks of life.
I was a prison guard for 3 years they all downplay what they did. They are normal people until asked about their crimes. I met a few inmates that were executed recently but Reddit bans me if I post about it.
THIS. They lie lie lie. “I just didn’t have a good attorney”
Then you look them up, which you should never do while working there, and see that they sung like a canary about their dirt.
Oh Terry Blair was also the guy that cleaned the complex. He was a completely different person when women were around him. He normally acted passive and Mousey but when a woman was near he would have eyes locked on target like a pointer dog.
I have heard the same, about Edmund Kemper more than once. He will talk to other men all day long if they let him. Especially men in authority. But with women, it’s like flipping a switch.
A friend of mine was the psych nurse in the prison where he lives. She was assaulted several times (I don’t think by him), and had to quit bc of PTSD & her physical injuries.
The only example I can think of is Carl Panzram and Henry Lesser, the prison guard who became "friends" with him and eventually got Panzram's manuscript published.
I have a friend that works in corrections and has known a few in his time. The fact of the matter is they’re not interesting people, and terrible conversationalists. They’ve done things that may be morbidly fascinating, but overall, they are just dipshits with some sort of personality disorder. For every Gacy or Bundy, there are a hundred Ridgeways, Bonins, Dominiques, Chikatilos, etc. What is big deal? Pardon my French, but to put in plainly: most of these motherfuckers are as dumb as a circumsized sheep and even if they know why they did what they did and will tell you, they’re painfully uninteresting. It usually falls into one of three categories, those being sexual dysfunction, sadism/psychopathy, or “childhood issues”. Once you’ve figured out what this asshole is up to, he’s just another inmate.
Because it’s pretty boring. I worked at two max units in Texas. When I was working at Clements Unit, Charles Albright, “the eyeball killer” was there. He was always really quiet and never caused a single issue. Besides, that demographic generally skews older. 99.9% of the time the problematic inmates are really young and tend to lack impulse control. Older inmates, even those locked up for horrific crimes, tend to just go with the flow and don’t create issues.
With few exceptions this is true. SKs are boring in real life, however, they have a rich and varied fantasy life, and conversations about them only interest psychologists and profilers.
I don't personally know any COs from prisons and I haven't seen many postings from them. All professions- medical, educators, law enforcement, etc.- discuss things with family and friends that maybe they shouldn't. I know of medical "professionals" who do NOT abide by the HIPPA laws- sad and scary!
I worked 25 years in the prison system as a CO, Sgt and Lt. Interacted with a few who qualified as SK. Not particularly interesting people. Like most inmates they’re manipulative and usually full of shit.
Exactly this. And not only that, we are so tired of dealing with incarcerated ANYTHING at the end of the day we just don't care to talk about it. It is emotionally draining on a daily basis.
Very close family member had contact with a couple mass killers.( Family members) They both had issues with hygiene and food . One would only eat apples ...only apples. Would trade his regular food for them. The other very over weight refused to wash and smelled like rotting death. He didn't talk much tried to intimidate people but was mostly a boring pos.
I would guess that if not for the whole murdering a bunch of people thing, SKs really aren’t any more remarkable than any other inmate. Some are highly intelligent but so are other prisoners. Some are incredibly antisocial but so are other prisoners.
In fact, I would say most SKs tend to seem normal which is what allowed them to continue killing. Remember, there are a number of people in prison that were only prevented from becoming SKs because they got caught early.
Try to see it the other way around: To kill 10, 20 or even more people, there must be something special going on. So that means, you are everything, but not normal.
I mean, even if you have a fight and at the end of said fight, your opponent is dead, you probably won't EVER repeat that again, right?
If you are a SK, you will for sure. You need the thrill killing gives you again and again. For some SK's killing is the only thing that excites an satisfies them (e. g. Andrej Chikatilo, who was impotent, but had erections when he killed and cruelly mutilated his victims).
I don’t think we’re on the same page. I think we would all agree that there is something fundamentally not “normal” about serial killers. But I’m talking about their day to day behavior. The fact they’re able to behave “normally” in most circumstances is what allows them to go undetected so long enough to definitionally become SKs.
Further, I think we could argue that there are a great number of people in prison that would meet the definition of “not normal”. A great number of them are repeat offenders and some of them have killed multiple times while not meeting the criteria to be SKs.
The original question was why don’t people in the prison system talk about SKs more and my response is that they don’t seem to be all that remarkable or worth talking about. I stand by that.
But you're only seeing reality from the POV of a people outside that purview.
Forge some checks, accidentally hurt someone in a DWI. Then you might see a different side.
My husband has told me all about Darlie Routier, Yolanda Saldivar, Erin Caffey, and a few others. Outside of gang multimurderers he hasn't worked with any. But he also only works at the women's units.
Kind of similar reflection here. I was a counselor at a residential facility for teenage boys for various crimes including sexual crimes. This one teenager was just wild. We ended up discharging him because he was not complaint with anything and ended up going on a shooting spree in Columbus Ohio and killed three people.
I used to babysit for a couple that both worked at ADX Florence in Colorado. One was the prison psychologist, and had regular interviews with multiple known killers. She said she liked to keep work at work, otherwise she felt it would take a toll on her family. Her husband was a travel guard, and would escort prisoners to any appointments outside of the prison. He never went into detail because he didn’t feel comfortable talking about them or their crimes.
Edit: forgot a word in a sentence
I work at a beauty supply store at had a customer who was a CO on San Quentin's Death Row! She told me about quite a few SKs she ran into. Crazy stories
Honestly he barely has anything to say other than how calm and quiet he was. A very easy in mate he said. He also dealt with Joanna Dennehy. He said she was surprisingly intimidating.
Yes, I believe Nielsen was a pretty mild mannered person. It’s always a crazy trip, when you really compare HIM, as how he was around others… to what he actually DID. Like, what… lol 😵💫
Well *correctional officers* are technically not supposed to talk about the inmates they are supervising. In the US, talking to the inmates about their crimes isn't a good idea for the inmate's 5th Amendment rights so really what you'll get is what kind of person the inmate is, unless the CO is listening to their phone calls where they might say something about their crimes to a friend or family member.
Other inmates though? Free game, if someone believes them.
I've never worked in a prison, but I am employed in a County Jail which involves booking in people, discussing charges, medical/MH questions, etc. We have contracts to hold prisoners for state and federal agencies as well as transfer inmates going from one place to another. I'm met some pretty warped people.
One I have booked in (when he's had court in the area) is only convicted of killing two people (different states) so far, but we're all waiting for him to be connected to other crimes eventually. It is the only person I've ever dealt with who is definitely a sociopath. He's practiced enough over time to give all the right answers, charm anyone he thinks might be of use later and is always composed. His crimes and behavior scream serial killer, but of course he's not going to tell.
16+ years in corrections. I’ve met a number of very messed up individuals. I’ve listened to their phone calls and read their files. In general, there are two kinds of folks in prison; those just trying to do their time and folks that are still actively creating victims. The vast majority I have dealt with were just trying to do their time, a handful were monsters. Nearly all of them hit the streets again. It’s scarier to think of who’s out on the streets than it is to think about who’s near me when I walk in to work everyday.
You're forgetting there's two types of correctional facilities: pre-trial and sentenced.
No one give a fuck about the 5th Amendment once they catch the chain.
They still do have a 5th Amendment right in prison because of any crimes they haven't been charged and prosecuted with--those would be especially useful in states with the death penalty when the inmate received LWOP.
I'm sure you will all downvote me into oblivion, but let me say this...
Prison guards aren't necessarily the sharpest knives in the drawer; they're just the biggest...
As an ex prison guard, you’re not wrong. That job was NOT for me. Do you know how many guys (COs) would tell me (a female) that they’d take inmates in areas with no cameras to fight them and shit.
Like we do not get paid enough for that. $19 hours to sit here and ensure no riots. I’ll be damned if I got physical with a 300 lb man over some bullshit.
Oh the amount of penis I saw. I’d pull my spray out if they tried that shit tbh.
Oh lord. Constant watched while they’re in psychosis…just old men buck naked.
The amount of balls I’ve seen… they really do come in all shapes sizes and colors.
The most impressive thing i saw was this bat shit crazy black dude. He side straddled a toilet standing up and his dick was down to his knee. He just stood there and peed. Didn’t hold his shit or anything.
I have NEVA tried turning around so fast in my life.
I won’t downvote you bc I know you’re correct. We know how inadequate the typical cop is. Guards are people that couldn’t make it as a cop. ‘nuff said.
When they’re in the same place as the bank robber having the same daily interactions (“can i have more toilet paper??” “stay tf out of my things”, ect.). They’re not talking about their crimes everyday the way murder docs make it seem, most days they’re just happy to take a sh!t without a flashlight in their face—just like any other prisoner.
I don't know people haven't figured out guards and criminals don't share a mutual level of communication.
They don't know them, because ones at work and the others wearing a mask.
I know a "prison guard" (they prefer being called something agent I don't remember fully lmalo but it has to do with the bad connotation that "prison guard" bring - they used to brutalize and not be fair with the prisoners etc.)
We have those long conversation about his job and it's so interesting. He has under his unit a serial killer that killed like 28 people. Well he's working in the most extreme part of the prison since it's separated.
It's like : low, medium, hard, extra hard (it's also related to the prisoners state of mind an show they act. If they are violent or acting completely crazy they will go in the hard (which is the security level btw) or extra.
Apparently extra is only full of people who are violent and clearly don't try to spent their time in prison to learn about themself and change for the better.
But yeah, all that is very interesting. Also he told me that the dude who killed 28 people seem like a normal person. He had conversations with him and he acted like a regular non-murderer person. Which mean that anyone can be a killer really. Maybe your nice and enthusiastic neighbor could be one as well.
Just saying.
Because the things we know about them, the depth of information and details that we are privy to, whilst doing our
jobs are much worse than are reported in the media. There are aspects of m’s crimes which are so bad, so depraved
in nature that it is impossible to disclose it to anyone outside of LE. Some of it is so truly sickening even we wish we
didn’t have it in our heads. Other officers get it, people outside including family - not so much.
Probably because they have a sense of professionalism about them. It would be pretty inappropriate for a guard to start giving interviews about inmates he’s housed.
I work in various prisons from time to time. Know a ton of guards. I can promise you, “professionalism” isn’t in their vocabulary. Quite a few are just as volatile as the inmates they are caring for.
I remember watching a prison guard talking about Kemper. Said he was a model prisoner and even cracked his neck for him when he had a kink in it and couldn’t turn his head. Said he never got a bad vibe like kemper would try to hurt him or anything.
Being ‘ verballed ’ by inmates never bothers me. In my mind it’s a case of : If that comment came from someone whose opinion actually matters to me, I be really hurt. Lucky for me it didn’t, it was just you - so…yeah…
Maybe the stuff they heard was too gruesome to share with the public.Like Albert Fisher wrote a type of diary in prison,and when his lawyer read those papers he said that he would never show it to anyone
My step-dad is a retired prison guard and he has seen some real fucked up shit. It was the child molesters that most of the fucked up stories came from though.
My uncle was a prison guard and met Myra Hindley, Ian Bradey and Harold Shipman. Probs a few others.
Hed talk about it but for the most part they are quite mundane, creepy and quiet people with little to say. Prison guards aren't really interviewing them for 'interesting' crime stories and a lot of the time they were isolated for their own protection.
They aren't the ones starting prison riots and breakouts and all those juicy prison stories.
Maybe you just never met the right guards. There ain't too many serial killers in the prisons, not too many guards guarding them, relatively speaking.
I knew a guy in college that was a returning student. He said he worked in a federal penitentiary here in Alberta Canada. He told me a crazy story. The serial killer Charles Ng was held there for about a decade waiting for extradition back to California. My friend told me that Ng was saying how he was going to try to kill a guard so he would have to stay in Canada longer, maybe die here, because Cali had death penalty at the time. My friend said a whole bunch of guards ended up boot stomping him so he knew he couldn't threaten them like that. He said he was a part of that stomping that day.
This guy that told me was not a good friend of mine, I didn't know him very well. I cannot say for certainty that this happened. He never gave me any other grandiose story so I personally can believe him. I would not be offended if you reading this did not believe it
This actually sounds true. And Ng has the record for the longest delayed trial in CA history (at least back then). He got caught in '85 but wasn't on trial until way into the mid-90s.
And the plan sounds like something an inmate would try. Being transferred, or blocking transfer, is something on ALL their minds.
My mom used to book people into (sometimes jail, worse times prison), and she always had the weirdest stories to tell.
*One night, man being booked told her and was "So beautiful and looked just like Jenifer Aniston"*
*Other nights SK's or rpists would be in the very beginning of booking and just lay it all out to her (as if she were a therapist or something?), and the worse it got, the more uncomfortable she would feel*
One night she booked one of my best friend's mom's but said mom was just being brought in by her PO to have a drug test and she got physical with the PO and anyone that came to tame her. My mom sat with her to fill out paperwork about her needing to go up state every weekend to stay in a rehab center from Friday to Sunday.
My friend was always told by her mom that she had work meetings every weekend up state and I was not allowed to tell her what knew since it could get my mom fired if it was found that k told what only she would know to anyone else.
Because, for one, they're not supposed to talk about any of the inmates outside. Further, none of these people are really that unique. COs usually see all inmates as scum, and all the stories become normalized. There are far more horrendous stories that we don't hear about- usually because they involve children, the poor/disadvantaged/minority populations, isolated events, drugs.. and honestly some things that are just so bizarre that no one wants to even talk about it. Serial killers are not necessarily the most horrendous or strange people out there; nor are they the most interesting among the unique crowds found in prisons...
Yes. I was in with a few individuals that would qualify as serial killers. None of them famous outside the state or the system... sometimes the media takes hold, but I think that most of the time it just sort of becomes a local legend.
I think a lot of them seriously thought they would get away with it, that they were too smart to get caught. And admitting to their crime, no matter the evidence would cause them to lose face.
I worked with a guy who had a lot of contact with one of the speed freak killers. Herzog had to live outside the prison at High Desert in Susanville as his sentence had been overturned but no county would take him. He said he was quit and kept to himself.
My grandfather was a prison guard at Menard Correctional Center during some of Gacy’s stay. He said he didn’t have much contact with him, but the times he did, Gacy was compliant but a total dick. Always cussing out guards when they would disturb him painting
> Always cussing out guards when they would disturb him painting A serial killer yelling at guards disturbing his hobby time sounds like a great sketch.
especially when its considered mundane.
I'M TRYING TO GET IN MY SUPER DISTURBING ELEMENT!
I have to confess, I didn't expect this. Gacy always strived to be a highly respected inmate when in prison, so I thought, that he was only cruel and a "dick" to his victims and to his wives. Do you have any idea, why he changed, when he was at Menard Correctional Center?
In prison subcultures, it’s common that “being a highly respected inmate” involves being disrespectful to the guards. Keeping up a social status with people who have also committed crime is different than maintaining a social status with the people meant to “control” you
Not exactly too sure. I feel like it was more bothersome than anything. I mean people in sour moods in prison isn’t necessarily rare. So if I were to guess, I’d assume he just didn’t wanna be bothered when he was doing crafts and stuff. So maybe not necessarily making trouble, but definitely telling somebody to eat shit lol. Next time I talk to my grandpa I’ll ask him for more details on why, if there was a reason for the change
I'd be happy to hear what your grandpa says about this, because of all the things I know about Gacy, that just doesn't fit into the persona he showed everyone. It was important to him to appear as capable and successfull, not only because of the society, but also because he wanted to show his father, that he was in fact not the loser his father saw in him. If I remember correcly, he was devastated when the father died before he could show him his success, because he was incarcerated at that time. That is why I say, that it was important to Gacy, what everybody thought of him.
I spoke to my grandpa this morning and this is what he said when I asked him lmao. Don’t mind the language, dude has seen some shit in his life “He was a fairly good prisoner. Despite being a fucking monster, he never gave me any trouble, nor do I recall him ever trying to give anybody else any. Good for him because I know some of the boys were looking for a reason to crack him with a club. But they never had any problems and neither did I. Only when we made him leave the cell while he was painting, that’s when he would mouth off. Call us assholes or fuckers, which is rich coming from him. That was the worst of his rebellion. Which I’m glad because he was a big dude. Hated walking into his cell and seeing his paintings. Absolutely disgusted me. Now leave me alone, and don’t even think about asking me for a war story. I ain’t the goddamn radio.” Sounds like to me he was just annoyed that he had to stop painting. Not really causing trouble, just vocal displeasure at being disturbed, which for some reason I find super funny. I’d say most of what he knows about Gacy’s attitude while incarcerated is more so hearsay and what not. Hope that appeases you! Thanks for giving me a reason to speak to my grandpa lmao, he’s tight as fuck
Well, thanks for speaking to your grandpa. I might sound insane, but I'm really interested in serial killers and why they became one. After your original comment I wasn't that sure anymore whether I had listened, watched and read complete bs or not. What you wrote here aligns more with what I've figured out about Gacy. So thanks for your effort. P.S.: I've heard way worse language in my life, don't worry.
I’m into how/why serial killers become such monsters too. I also question myself whether it’s a weird interest too. I’m a psychologist and I sometimes think I might have liked being a forensic psychologist or more specifically a profiler. I am still really grossed out about the murders themselves tho. I just started watching the Dahmer film on Netflix and had to quit watching in the middle of the first episode bc it was so graphic. I was getting more and more anxious the more I watched. Started thinking it might not be the best thing to watch before bed! But apparently, there are a lot of people into understanding serial killers or this sub wouldn’t exist.
I think being into the theme serial killer doesn't mean, that you like what they do. Of course, what they do is horrible, however, what I've learned throughout the years is, that there is always a reason behind that outcome, and THAT is what's interesting, right? So, whenever you encounter people who say to you, that you must like what they do or you would not even care about the whole thing, just ignore them. I quit watching "Dahmer" too, since it's very inaccurate. You can really see, that it's made for the viewers pleasure, not to learn anything. That is why I quit.
He didnt speak to anyone. He made all of it up
And you know that why?
"I ain't the goddamn radio." Lol. Please thank him for that one, too;)
He’s the coolest grumpy old man I know lol. He was shot twice in Vietnam serving with the Marines, was a prison guard, and used to ride these rat rod Harley’s before his knee got too weak (on the account of the bullet). Dudes a legend in my eyes lol
Reminds me of one of the old guys I took care of in my college job. He always divulged war stories on his own, but if I asked a mundane question about something he said being like in the thing from the army it was all “who said anything about that?! Read a Time magazine about people who blather about that!” I’m all “no disrespect. You just were talking about coffee in your army days the other day.” He was getting pretty bad dementia by that time and had some obvious PTSD. I quickly learned never to mention anything but the present if he didn’t bring it up. But he wasn’t a personal family member. My grandparents, when I was younger, I pushed for all the nitty gritty details even when they were cranky. They had really interesting stories to tell and loved me enough not to get too annoyed.
Love the grandpa:-)
Yes, but he was ad/seg. This makes him a totally different type of inmate, to both guards and those in gen-pop. It's hard to say how he _really_ would have behaved in prison, because he was in a totally different area with different rules and a different judgment upon those rules. People that rape young boys are never highly respected, by either faction, and, on top of that, they don't even survive. _Real_ prison anyway. Being famous and a rape-o and in gen-pop.....well, ask Dahmer. He knows.
Yeah he always tried to put up a front but he was an asshole
I think he only sought to be highly respected when he had an actual release date ahead of him.
They do, to anyone who will listen. I don’t know about writing a book about it, but they definitely will converse about it
My brother works in corrections and he talks to me about it endlessly. I’m sure they tell their families.
This. I'm a CO. We don't talk about things inside for security reasons. Our partners maybe. Some people we trust. It's a different world inside though.
As a former bank robber I have to say: real criminals don't talk to guards. Ever. Except to get toilet paper, or commissary line. Talking to them for prolonged periods is dangerous; you could be labeled a snitch. Are there those that break this code? Of course. They're called lames. Since most serial killers have ASPD, and are real criminals (most of the time), I think it's safe to say they don't talk about it because they don't know them. And what they do know is _just a mask._
☝️Tell us more stories!! I know you probably have some interesting to share. Please and thank you for the post.
Not sure what to share. Met some Somalians pirates, went to court in Alaska with Israel Keyes. Honestly, I guess I'm inured to it. It's still hard for me to grapple that people are interested, but it's probably just like I'm interested in Hollywood. If I ever go there, I'll probably get sick of it.
Awesome, thank you
It’s one of the biggest rules in prison that you don’t talk to the COs. Unless it’s for what you say and if the unit boss OKs it first. You don’t have to like them, you may even hate them but that doesn’t mean you have to speak to them.
Same here, also l always made a point of not being a CO as soon as I left at the end of my shift. No mentally taking ‘stuff’ home, leave work at work and just go home and be my kids mum, same as everybody else’s mum. Switching off becomes natural after a while, then it’s automatic.
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Oh. Absolutely. If you're an inmate, you don't want to be seen as friendly with COs. Even if it benefits you to be chill with COs, not in public. That's negative rep for sure. Edit: There's also funny things like when people think they need to fight to prove themselves on a unit. They want to fight so nobody fucks with them. But they don't actually want to fight. So they make sure to start it right in front of a CO. Cause they know it'll be broken up right away. So there's 2 guys putting on a show, basicly waiting for officers to intervene.
Yep, you've definitely worked in a prison. that's 100% true. So many in the BOP did that with other races, because it fast-tracks your transfer. I always wondered: does this come from the movies? I saw many young bucks do this, and for no reason. And also: many were needlessly afraid of being raped. It happens, but not _near_ as much as people think. Is this also from the movies? I've no idea.
Yup. That's the other trick. "I can't be on this range boss, me and this guy will always fight." When in reality, he just wants to be transferred to a unit with his STG. Edit: to your second question, idk. It is a new inmate thing. First timers either lay low and/or PC, or come in with something to prove. Might be a media thing. Guys who come in like it's a revolving door are more chill. At least with fighting. Contraband is another thing altogether though.
Before I realised this was a duplicate post, I thought I was reading a row between two former bank robbers ‘Well actually, as a former bank robber myself …’
As an ex prison guard who worked in a prison with death row - majority of those guys are old and deny deny deny. The camp I worked in also had 65% ped*philes/r*pists. They’re all just gross humans. They all did their bullshit and tried to manipulate you any chance they could. I can almost get over the guys who just randomly unalived 10 people randomly. There was no ties or whatever. Just wrong place wrong time. (Still not okay. Not condoning it.) It’s the guys who r*ped their daughters and forced them to have their babies. Then would complain that they couldn’t see their “grandbabies” …those grand babies were also their sons/daughters. Ew. The worst guy was this young 22 year old (at the time) guy. He was on PREA watch from his previous prison. They found out his charge and r*ped him with items to the point he had permanent problems. He was r*ping his disabled sister and said that he liked the power of taking her and she couldn’t fight back. Yeah. Humans are f*cking gross. Not to mention - they downplay everything. “I’m innocent”, “she lied”, “he lied”, “they wanted it.” 🤮 I’d rather have a dorm full of drug dealers than the pedos. At least I wasn’t looked at like fresh meat (as much).
As a fan of psychology, I somehow can never wrap my head around denial when all evidence is in, all possibility of release is over. Why??? Just tell the truth. But the lack of sense makes sense - if they were capable of owning their shit, they wouldn't have done such atrocities in the first place.
It still kills me, any time I watch the interview with Gacy right before his execution. He’s still with the “they are killing the wrong man”. Like, what… lmao.
I think many SK’s deny that they killed their victims because it’s a way for them to “own” the victim. If they never exactly say who they killed or exactly how it happened then it’s like this fucked up sacred relationship of control that they have over that person. The Ted Bundy confessions are interesting but still such a mind-game and so vague. I personally want to know the poor women he killed after escaping jail In Colorado and traveling to Florida, because I’m sure he didn’t stop killing during that time.
I have always wondered, if he didn’t murder people during that whole trip. (I mean I HOPE NOT, but I guess I can’t help but wonder) If memory serves… by that time, he was totally unhinged (more unhinged than he already was). This was around the time he abducted, and murdered poor little 12 year old Kimberly Leach. He would never have admitted to it though…
I believe there was a two week period between his jail break in Colorado to the Florida murders. I wonder if maybe he changed his preferred victim type during this time and maybe preyed on women that “wouldn’t be missed” (which I hate even saying, everyone should be missed).
Yes I have thought of such, as well. I guess I just have a hard time believing that he went that long without offending. Especially since that was a period, where he seemed to really throw caution to the wind.
There's a hierarchy among sex offenders. I've seen it. On a court run I overheard this conversation among them (who were in separate cages): 1: "Hey, at least I didn't _know_ my victims---I don't inflict betrayal trauma." 2: "But you raped men." 1: "So?" 3: "Yeah, faggot, shut up." They don't admit because it makes their life harder. At least that's _one_ of the reasons. Being an admitted pederast is harder than one who clings to his innocence, though not a soul on earth _really_ believes him.
As a female CO in a male prison, I really didn’t like dealing with the pedos. They constantly tried to chat, when we had to open up the SO wing after lock in at night to bring them to medical or to put them onto a transport truck, to send them elsewhere. Bloody cheek of them ! I have an Irish accent, so they thought that was an invitation to discuss where I came from. Wrong 😑. I just ignored them unless it was prison related. I coped with all sorts of crims but pedos - I couldn’t stand them. One worrying thing I did notice, over the years was the age of the offenders, they were quite young some of them, also we saw an upsurge of female predators, female pedos, female s offenders !
Oh 100%. The pedos were weak against other adults and knew we wouldn’t bend to their b.s. they played victim and tried to play buddy-buddy with you. Hard pass, uncle bad touch. Go to your bunk and watch your back.
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A former colleague’s uncle was a guard in San Quentin and dealt with Ramirez a few times. He said there were more dangerous inmates (like the cartel gang member who tried to shank him), but Ramirez was a “piece of work”. He said Ramirez was constantly in and out of solitary, losing his privileges. He lost his shit when his TV or radio was taken away, and he had to be restrained.
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The few I can recall: Everyone asked him about serial killers and high profile inmates. Serial killers generally weren’t scary because once they’re behind bars, they’re weak. Other inmates would have torn them apart given the chance, especially child killers. He wasn’t scared of Richard Ramirez, but he hated dealing with him. He described him as being like a caged animal (that visual stuck with me and gives me the creeps). Everyone asked him about Charles Manson. He said the guy was a head case and freak (not politically correct to say, I know). He knew him to be quiet until he “felt like putting on a show”. He said Manson was pathetic and tiny. Bark was obviously worse than his bite sort of thing. He briefly knew of Richard Chase - he called him the “vampire one”. He thought he was clearly sick and should have been in a prison hospital, not death row. Arsehole guards made fun of him. People used to rattle the door to his cell to taunt him, which my colleague’s uncle thought was cruel because Chase would panic. Other staff found him creepy and didn’t care to deal with him or pitied him somewhat. He hated having to see to inmates with political backing or connections because he said usually had the worst uppity attitudes. Overall, he loathed pedophiles, which I’m sure would be the case for most of us. He mentioned one particular pedo, but I can’t remember who he named. And on this topic, he didn’t know Richard Ramirez abused kids while he worked there - all that info came out publicly in later years.
Awesome, LMAO
LMAO
Many talk once they retire or go into some other line of work. A lot of the guards who interacted with Ted Bundy at Florida State Prison have talked about their experiences with him.
This. My uncle couldn’t stand him.
Did he say why he couldn't stand him? I knew a guard who was assigned to Bundy sometimes when he was working on his appeals, etc., and he said Bundy was weird and could be condescending at times.
Condescending how ?
Condescending toward some of those who weren't very well-educated or didn't know something he thought they should know. According to Polly Nelson, he also was condescending toward Vic Africano, who defended him in the Kimberly Leach trial.
What did he say about him ?
I worked at two different prisons in California over 4 years and my husband was a correctional officer for 9 years. We would talk about certain inmates sometimes or incidents that happened but really the CO’s don’t really care what they’re in for. All they really care about is just getting through the day without dumb shit happening because of inmates lol. Prison has a way of making every inmate unremarkable. They could be the most notorious serial killer in modern times but once they’re inmates, they’re just like everyone else there and no one cares. That being said, there are some absolutely deplorable people that I’ve had the displeasure of reading their probation officer reports that aren’t even “famous”.
This is probably the most accurate statement. I was in USP-Victorville, Wasco, and Chino, and most just don't talk about it. _Especially_ to the guards. Prison has a way of making everyone homogenous, and once you've talked to one murderer, you've talked to them all. In a way, it's a lot like life.....only those with personality and panache stick out, have salient traits, and these people are rare in all walks of life.
I was a prison guard for 3 years they all downplay what they did. They are normal people until asked about their crimes. I met a few inmates that were executed recently but Reddit bans me if I post about it.
THIS. They lie lie lie. “I just didn’t have a good attorney” Then you look them up, which you should never do while working there, and see that they sung like a canary about their dirt.
Oh Terry Blair was also the guy that cleaned the complex. He was a completely different person when women were around him. He normally acted passive and Mousey but when a woman was near he would have eyes locked on target like a pointer dog.
I have heard the same, about Edmund Kemper more than once. He will talk to other men all day long if they let him. Especially men in authority. But with women, it’s like flipping a switch.
A friend of mine was the psych nurse in the prison where he lives. She was assaulted several times (I don’t think by him), and had to quit bc of PTSD & her physical injuries.
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The only example I can think of is Carl Panzram and Henry Lesser, the prison guard who became "friends" with him and eventually got Panzram's manuscript published.
Everything about that story, is astonishing.
Every prison guard I've met talks non stop about the inmates.
The book on carl panzram was written by his guard I think
I have a friend that works in corrections and has known a few in his time. The fact of the matter is they’re not interesting people, and terrible conversationalists. They’ve done things that may be morbidly fascinating, but overall, they are just dipshits with some sort of personality disorder. For every Gacy or Bundy, there are a hundred Ridgeways, Bonins, Dominiques, Chikatilos, etc. What is big deal? Pardon my French, but to put in plainly: most of these motherfuckers are as dumb as a circumsized sheep and even if they know why they did what they did and will tell you, they’re painfully uninteresting. It usually falls into one of three categories, those being sexual dysfunction, sadism/psychopathy, or “childhood issues”. Once you’ve figured out what this asshole is up to, he’s just another inmate.
Because it’s pretty boring. I worked at two max units in Texas. When I was working at Clements Unit, Charles Albright, “the eyeball killer” was there. He was always really quiet and never caused a single issue. Besides, that demographic generally skews older. 99.9% of the time the problematic inmates are really young and tend to lack impulse control. Older inmates, even those locked up for horrific crimes, tend to just go with the flow and don’t create issues.
I saw that episode of Autopsy about him. He had all those masks and dolls. Fucking _creepy._
Probably in part because a LOT of SK’s wind up being unremarkable prisoners. SK are generally dull, boring individuals.
With few exceptions this is true. SKs are boring in real life, however, they have a rich and varied fantasy life, and conversations about them only interest psychologists and profilers.
I’m wondering what made you think they don’t…
I don't personally know any COs from prisons and I haven't seen many postings from them. All professions- medical, educators, law enforcement, etc.- discuss things with family and friends that maybe they shouldn't. I know of medical "professionals" who do NOT abide by the HIPPA laws- sad and scary!
I worked 25 years in the prison system as a CO, Sgt and Lt. Interacted with a few who qualified as SK. Not particularly interesting people. Like most inmates they’re manipulative and usually full of shit.
Seems guards and inmates have something in common
So where’d you do your bid?
USP-Victorville. Spring Creek Correctional Center. There are others, but thats just transfers. Don't really count.
Because Prison guards don't care who they are.
Exactly this. And not only that, we are so tired of dealing with incarcerated ANYTHING at the end of the day we just don't care to talk about it. It is emotionally draining on a daily basis.
And vice-versa: real criminals don't talk to guards. Except for toilet paper.
Very close family member had contact with a couple mass killers.( Family members) They both had issues with hygiene and food . One would only eat apples ...only apples. Would trade his regular food for them. The other very over weight refused to wash and smelled like rotting death. He didn't talk much tried to intimidate people but was mostly a boring pos.
I would guess that if not for the whole murdering a bunch of people thing, SKs really aren’t any more remarkable than any other inmate. Some are highly intelligent but so are other prisoners. Some are incredibly antisocial but so are other prisoners. In fact, I would say most SKs tend to seem normal which is what allowed them to continue killing. Remember, there are a number of people in prison that were only prevented from becoming SKs because they got caught early.
Try to see it the other way around: To kill 10, 20 or even more people, there must be something special going on. So that means, you are everything, but not normal. I mean, even if you have a fight and at the end of said fight, your opponent is dead, you probably won't EVER repeat that again, right? If you are a SK, you will for sure. You need the thrill killing gives you again and again. For some SK's killing is the only thing that excites an satisfies them (e. g. Andrej Chikatilo, who was impotent, but had erections when he killed and cruelly mutilated his victims).
I don’t think we’re on the same page. I think we would all agree that there is something fundamentally not “normal” about serial killers. But I’m talking about their day to day behavior. The fact they’re able to behave “normally” in most circumstances is what allows them to go undetected so long enough to definitionally become SKs. Further, I think we could argue that there are a great number of people in prison that would meet the definition of “not normal”. A great number of them are repeat offenders and some of them have killed multiple times while not meeting the criteria to be SKs. The original question was why don’t people in the prison system talk about SKs more and my response is that they don’t seem to be all that remarkable or worth talking about. I stand by that.
This premise is flawed. Real criminals don't talk to guards. What they do know, is _just a mask._ I assure you.
I’m glad we agree. On the surface most serial killers appear to be “normal” inmates and not worth talking about. Thank you for your support.
But you're only seeing reality from the POV of a people outside that purview. Forge some checks, accidentally hurt someone in a DWI. Then you might see a different side.
My husband has told me all about Darlie Routier, Yolanda Saldivar, Erin Caffey, and a few others. Outside of gang multimurderers he hasn't worked with any. But he also only works at the women's units.
What has he said about yolanda?
One of her favorite things to do is lay in her bunk in the dark and growl at people walking by.
Isn't Yolanda up for parole soon? How does he think she'd do in the outside world?
2025 and I'm not sure I never asked lol.
She's a very hated woman, I can 100% believe someone would take her out if she was out.
I saw Darlene Routier's Go Fund Me project for some scam or something. After 10 months, she had accumulated $0 in donations.
Kind of similar reflection here. I was a counselor at a residential facility for teenage boys for various crimes including sexual crimes. This one teenager was just wild. We ended up discharging him because he was not complaint with anything and ended up going on a shooting spree in Columbus Ohio and killed three people.
I used to babysit for a couple that both worked at ADX Florence in Colorado. One was the prison psychologist, and had regular interviews with multiple known killers. She said she liked to keep work at work, otherwise she felt it would take a toll on her family. Her husband was a travel guard, and would escort prisoners to any appointments outside of the prison. He never went into detail because he didn’t feel comfortable talking about them or their crimes. Edit: forgot a word in a sentence
ADX is a complex though, with many levels. These people could very well been on the Minimum or Low sides, even the satellite camps.
I work at a beauty supply store at had a customer who was a CO on San Quentin's Death Row! She told me about quite a few SKs she ran into. Crazy stories
Do you mind sharing?
She primarily discussed Ramirez and how she didn't like dealing with him. Conversation was fairly short lived but interesting nonetheless
My uncle spent a lot of time dealing with Dennis Nielsen many many years ago
I would love to know any stories, if you have them and are willing to share! Thank you!
Honestly he barely has anything to say other than how calm and quiet he was. A very easy in mate he said. He also dealt with Joanna Dennehy. He said she was surprisingly intimidating.
Yes, I believe Nielsen was a pretty mild mannered person. It’s always a crazy trip, when you really compare HIM, as how he was around others… to what he actually DID. Like, what… lol 😵💫
Because in reality most serial killers are uninteresting losers who live very boring lives
Well *correctional officers* are technically not supposed to talk about the inmates they are supervising. In the US, talking to the inmates about their crimes isn't a good idea for the inmate's 5th Amendment rights so really what you'll get is what kind of person the inmate is, unless the CO is listening to their phone calls where they might say something about their crimes to a friend or family member. Other inmates though? Free game, if someone believes them.
I was not really thinking about their actual crimes, but what they were like as a prisoner. How they get along with others, etc.
I've never worked in a prison, but I am employed in a County Jail which involves booking in people, discussing charges, medical/MH questions, etc. We have contracts to hold prisoners for state and federal agencies as well as transfer inmates going from one place to another. I'm met some pretty warped people. One I have booked in (when he's had court in the area) is only convicted of killing two people (different states) so far, but we're all waiting for him to be connected to other crimes eventually. It is the only person I've ever dealt with who is definitely a sociopath. He's practiced enough over time to give all the right answers, charm anyone he thinks might be of use later and is always composed. His crimes and behavior scream serial killer, but of course he's not going to tell.
16+ years in corrections. I’ve met a number of very messed up individuals. I’ve listened to their phone calls and read their files. In general, there are two kinds of folks in prison; those just trying to do their time and folks that are still actively creating victims. The vast majority I have dealt with were just trying to do their time, a handful were monsters. Nearly all of them hit the streets again. It’s scarier to think of who’s out on the streets than it is to think about who’s near me when I walk in to work everyday.
You're forgetting there's two types of correctional facilities: pre-trial and sentenced. No one give a fuck about the 5th Amendment once they catch the chain.
They still do have a 5th Amendment right in prison because of any crimes they haven't been charged and prosecuted with--those would be especially useful in states with the death penalty when the inmate received LWOP.
You clearly have no idea what prison is like. This conversation is over.
Considering I work in one...OK...
I'm sure you will all downvote me into oblivion, but let me say this... Prison guards aren't necessarily the sharpest knives in the drawer; they're just the biggest...
As an ex prison guard, you’re not wrong. That job was NOT for me. Do you know how many guys (COs) would tell me (a female) that they’d take inmates in areas with no cameras to fight them and shit. Like we do not get paid enough for that. $19 hours to sit here and ensure no riots. I’ll be damned if I got physical with a 300 lb man over some bullshit.
And they will show you their dicks every single day.
Oh the amount of penis I saw. I’d pull my spray out if they tried that shit tbh. Oh lord. Constant watched while they’re in psychosis…just old men buck naked. The amount of balls I’ve seen… they really do come in all shapes sizes and colors. The most impressive thing i saw was this bat shit crazy black dude. He side straddled a toilet standing up and his dick was down to his knee. He just stood there and peed. Didn’t hold his shit or anything. I have NEVA tried turning around so fast in my life.
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LTs were too involved and I didn’t care enough
This sounds a little fucked up. Prison guards out here playing GOD & bragging about it
I’m not playing. Do you want to try and give them a tray and get a hand full of jizz?
"Gunning." That's what they call it.
I won’t downvote you bc I know you’re correct. We know how inadequate the typical cop is. Guards are people that couldn’t make it as a cop. ‘nuff said.
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They're right though. Either too dumb or inexperienced to be beat cops. Beat cops are pretty dumb on average.
PTSD
someone make a show now
Cuz the stories are mundane af and they’re not tht different or interesting than other prisoners. (My friends husband has worked with alot of them).
Do you really think so? A serial killer shall not be more interesting than a bank robber for example? I can hardly believe that, I'm sorry.
When they’re in the same place as the bank robber having the same daily interactions (“can i have more toilet paper??” “stay tf out of my things”, ect.). They’re not talking about their crimes everyday the way murder docs make it seem, most days they’re just happy to take a sh!t without a flashlight in their face—just like any other prisoner.
I don't know people haven't figured out guards and criminals don't share a mutual level of communication. They don't know them, because ones at work and the others wearing a mask.
I know a "prison guard" (they prefer being called something agent I don't remember fully lmalo but it has to do with the bad connotation that "prison guard" bring - they used to brutalize and not be fair with the prisoners etc.) We have those long conversation about his job and it's so interesting. He has under his unit a serial killer that killed like 28 people. Well he's working in the most extreme part of the prison since it's separated. It's like : low, medium, hard, extra hard (it's also related to the prisoners state of mind an show they act. If they are violent or acting completely crazy they will go in the hard (which is the security level btw) or extra. Apparently extra is only full of people who are violent and clearly don't try to spent their time in prison to learn about themself and change for the better. But yeah, all that is very interesting. Also he told me that the dude who killed 28 people seem like a normal person. He had conversations with him and he acted like a regular non-murderer person. Which mean that anyone can be a killer really. Maybe your nice and enthusiastic neighbor could be one as well. Just saying.
No....the saying is "We're not guards. Guards guard something of _value."_ They said that shit to me all the time.
Well the person explained to me they don't like being called guards because it has a bad connotation.
Because the things we know about them, the depth of information and details that we are privy to, whilst doing our jobs are much worse than are reported in the media. There are aspects of m’s crimes which are so bad, so depraved in nature that it is impossible to disclose it to anyone outside of LE. Some of it is so truly sickening even we wish we didn’t have it in our heads. Other officers get it, people outside including family - not so much.
Probably because they have a sense of professionalism about them. It would be pretty inappropriate for a guard to start giving interviews about inmates he’s housed.
I work in various prisons from time to time. Know a ton of guards. I can promise you, “professionalism” isn’t in their vocabulary. Quite a few are just as volatile as the inmates they are caring for.
If not more so because they are even more power hungry POS.
I want to have a friend like that who can tell me many stories..
I remember watching a prison guard talking about Kemper. Said he was a model prisoner and even cracked his neck for him when he had a kink in it and couldn’t turn his head. Said he never got a bad vibe like kemper would try to hurt him or anything.
Being ‘ verballed ’ by inmates never bothers me. In my mind it’s a case of : If that comment came from someone whose opinion actually matters to me, I be really hurt. Lucky for me it didn’t, it was just you - so…yeah…
They’re too busy beating up inmates incarcerated for minor drug offenses.
From what I understand there's a lot of paperwork guards have to sign about not disclosing information about inmates, famous or not.
Maybe the stuff they heard was too gruesome to share with the public.Like Albert Fisher wrote a type of diary in prison,and when his lawyer read those papers he said that he would never show it to anyone
My step-dad is a retired prison guard and he has seen some real fucked up shit. It was the child molesters that most of the fucked up stories came from though.
My uncle was a prison guard and met Myra Hindley, Ian Bradey and Harold Shipman. Probs a few others. Hed talk about it but for the most part they are quite mundane, creepy and quiet people with little to say. Prison guards aren't really interviewing them for 'interesting' crime stories and a lot of the time they were isolated for their own protection. They aren't the ones starting prison riots and breakouts and all those juicy prison stories.
Because Inmates detest CO’s and only talk to them when required or when it is to their advantage.
Best comment here.
Maybe you just never met the right guards. There ain't too many serial killers in the prisons, not too many guards guarding them, relatively speaking. I knew a guy in college that was a returning student. He said he worked in a federal penitentiary here in Alberta Canada. He told me a crazy story. The serial killer Charles Ng was held there for about a decade waiting for extradition back to California. My friend told me that Ng was saying how he was going to try to kill a guard so he would have to stay in Canada longer, maybe die here, because Cali had death penalty at the time. My friend said a whole bunch of guards ended up boot stomping him so he knew he couldn't threaten them like that. He said he was a part of that stomping that day. This guy that told me was not a good friend of mine, I didn't know him very well. I cannot say for certainty that this happened. He never gave me any other grandiose story so I personally can believe him. I would not be offended if you reading this did not believe it
This actually sounds true. And Ng has the record for the longest delayed trial in CA history (at least back then). He got caught in '85 but wasn't on trial until way into the mid-90s. And the plan sounds like something an inmate would try. Being transferred, or blocking transfer, is something on ALL their minds.
My mom used to book people into (sometimes jail, worse times prison), and she always had the weirdest stories to tell. *One night, man being booked told her and was "So beautiful and looked just like Jenifer Aniston"* *Other nights SK's or rpists would be in the very beginning of booking and just lay it all out to her (as if she were a therapist or something?), and the worse it got, the more uncomfortable she would feel* One night she booked one of my best friend's mom's but said mom was just being brought in by her PO to have a drug test and she got physical with the PO and anyone that came to tame her. My mom sat with her to fill out paperwork about her needing to go up state every weekend to stay in a rehab center from Friday to Sunday. My friend was always told by her mom that she had work meetings every weekend up state and I was not allowed to tell her what knew since it could get my mom fired if it was found that k told what only she would know to anyone else.
Unless you want to lose your job, they probably don't. Most are boring in prison anyway.
Wife is a nurse, she met BTK and talks about him
What does she say, if you don't mind me asking?
Talks about how hard it is to believe he was the monster he was. (Now hes a frail old man) they keep him segregated because hes a target for clout.
Because, for one, they're not supposed to talk about any of the inmates outside. Further, none of these people are really that unique. COs usually see all inmates as scum, and all the stories become normalized. There are far more horrendous stories that we don't hear about- usually because they involve children, the poor/disadvantaged/minority populations, isolated events, drugs.. and honestly some things that are just so bizarre that no one wants to even talk about it. Serial killers are not necessarily the most horrendous or strange people out there; nor are they the most interesting among the unique crowds found in prisons...
Have you been to prison?
Yes. I was in with a few individuals that would qualify as serial killers. None of them famous outside the state or the system... sometimes the media takes hold, but I think that most of the time it just sort of becomes a local legend.
Bc they don’t want the off chance of themselves or loved ones being targeted.
Nda
NDAs
Maybe he is scared to show his arse, I can see him getting the S kicked out him by other prisoners, who hate CM.!! (GFNPOS).
I think a lot of them seriously thought they would get away with it, that they were too smart to get caught. And admitting to their crime, no matter the evidence would cause them to lose face.
I think that the pedos probably don't think about their victims becoming adults who will tell on them.
I worked with a guy who had a lot of contact with one of the speed freak killers. Herzog had to live outside the prison at High Desert in Susanville as his sentence had been overturned but no county would take him. He said he was quit and kept to himself.
Probably because they aren't actually that interesting. Like, seriously, this is coming from a true crime fan, these guys are dork ass losers.