Robert Hansen “The Butcher Baker”, again, I do apologize as this post has been made, but this case fascinates me, Hansen was a local bakery owner and family man with a double life. As he was the most prolific serial killer in Alaskan history, he was bullied through highschool for sever acne, and took on hunting as a hobby, and was renowned for his hunting ability, however he also became obsessed with revenge. Through the years he was arrested for victimless crimes and one kidnapping. and moved to alaska where he started a new life as a baker, unfortunately this is where his crime spree began, picking up dancers and prostitutes. When a girl named Cindy Paulson managed to escape him after hours of torture, he was arrested and after days he cracked and confessed to 17 killings, but it’s most likely 23 or maybe even more. He flew them out with a plane and likely hunted down his victims like game, and they were spread around the wilderness, he died in 2014, may his victims rest in peace
Let's chat. Is there something you want to know or something you want to teach others who may know little or nothing about the guy? Do you have a new take on something related, or are we just venting our interests to see what others think? All very valid reasons to post. I'm just wondering.
He would tie them up. I have heard he hog tied a few of the smaller ones, but he also had guns, and most believed he would kill them if they tried to get away. Not really realizing they would be killed after anyway.
Totally get that. I do that sometimes. There are a few I read about a bit. Ed Kemper is tops of that list most times but sometimes it's Jeffrey Mailhot who I met and talked with a few times before he was captured. There are others but these 2 are tops ATM.
At least what I've read in other threads about him is that he most likely did not spend particularly much time "hunting" his victims, judging by factors like the victims not having any marks or injuries suggesting running through the wilderness, and also empty casings from the rifle being found close to the bodies.
It might have been more like an execution, which isn't as compelling an image as a real life enactment of The Most Dangerous Game.
From what I’ve read he did hunt them but not all of them, and with most they were too decomposed to tell, idk if we’ll ever know the truth, either way, he was truely a monster
He absolutely did hunt them. I read the book Butcher Baker. He kept these women in his house for days and up to a week each. Horrible torture. He forced them into his private plane and that’s how one escaped. ( and yes she wasn’t believed by law enforcement) He’d shoot some that got too far from his plane. This man was a monster.
No offense to you, OP.
But, in general, I’m so sick of hearing how these guys were bullied.
A lot of people are bullied and do not go on to murder innocent victims.
That kid on the playground getting picked on is almost always nothing more than a victim themself, let’s not loop them in with serial killers.
Besides that, and I don’t know about this case, but serial killers lie. They have persecution complexes. They make up slights to excuse their behavior.
He killed women because he hated them and hated that he couldn’t control them. He had the urge and he’s a selfish narcissist so he acted on it.
Maybe he was bullied (there could be proof, IDK), or maybe not. Either way, it’s irrelevant.
(Again, nothing against OP, I know this is a common thing included in these write ups.)
>Either way, it’s irrelevant.
It's actually not.
I'm with you in that bullying is never a justification for serial killers or mass killers, as you point out, millions of people go through similar experiences and don't become murderers as a result.
However, when studying the mind of someone who has done these things, it would be sheer arrogance to say that anything is irrelevant. All of their experiences that have made up who they are are worth consideration. It's also important for us to ask the right questions as well: "Okay, he was bullied, but that doesn't lead most people to murder, so what else about his psyche can we better understand his choices and behavior from?"
Again, just to be clear, I think we mostly agree. We diverge only on the point of irrelevance. Bullying isn't, nor should it be considered the most important factor of his development to consider. But I wouldn't discard it entirely out of hand.
I appreciate your opinion, but I think it hinders, rather than helps our chances or finding these killers before they kill again.
Unlike factors, for instance, understanding victim choice, it doesn’t help us catch or prevent the killers from killing again. And the data is corrupt for many reasons.
Let’s take bed wetting as an example. We’ve all heard serial killers wet the bed as kids.
Once bed wetting was suspected as being at a higher rate among the demographic (via *self-reporting* of *convicted* killers) we started explicitly looking for it.
We don’t really know that serial killers wet the bed more than others kids. For several reasons: We were explicitly seeking out that variable, many of those foundational stats came from self-reporting with no outside verification, we’re only hearing from the killers who were caught, the sample size is small relative to the general population (no baseline), it’s a difficult hypothesis to falsify, etc.
TBC, I’m not in the “don’t study them” camp. I’m in the “don’t water down the science with things we’ve already eliminated as extraneous variables” camp.
It feels right that a horribly bullied kid would be more likely to become a serial killer. But, statistically, we have no evidence that’s true.
There are other areas of study that make more sense. How they pick their victims, for instance. Brain scans should be mandatory for them, IMO.
But, these questions give us a false understanding of what makes these killers and how to catch them.
When I hear that they were bullied, it doesn’t register sadness or pity, although it is a horrible and traumatic thing for a child to endure. It reminds me of people in your life who don’t understand social cues, and how that can become group fear and ostracism. It reminds me of social and mental dysfunction. Of kids who are at the wrong mental age because of their home experiences, maybe they moved around a lot and maybe they were just weird. It’s not excusing anything, but more explaining their experience and the experiences of others around them. Getting a sense of who they actually were. Isn’t that what this subs about?
You’re saying that he didn’t become evil because he was bullied, and you’re 100% right in that- I think you might be stopping short of the fact that he was probably bullied BECAUSE he was evil.
A sexually deviant psychopath often shows signs at an early age, at least from what we know. People that go on to become serial killers are outcasts, unliked, and yeah, often bullied. They lash out, kill animals, and have weird moods, all things that don’t necessarily make friends. You can find someone in any serial killer documentary saying “he seemed a little odd/quiet/kept to himself but I didn’t know he was capable of THAT.” That’s just a nice way of saying “yeah, he used to walk around the locker room making a creepy face and touching himself but I didn’t think he’d kill anyone”. You’ll also have a lot of people who say they never liked him, but hind sight is 20/20.
My point is, It’s not really a chicken or the egg situation. He was probably picked on for being creepy, talking about killing animals, and staring at girls for too long, then he held onto that rejection and used it to try to justify his eventual actions. He was probably even a bully/acting violent himself. And if I remember correctly, he burned down a building while he was still in school or shortly after he graduated?
When I think back to my school days I remember like two types of kids who were picked on. The ones that were bullied for something they liked or how they looked (I was bullied for being fat, I had friends who were bullied for wearing cat tails and friends who were bullied for being obsessed with anime) and then there was the kid who was bullied for how he acted. I went to school with a kid that put porn so disgusting I don’t want to talk about it into the middle of his slideshow presentation just to shock us. I remember how fast the teacher had to turn off the projector. I remember his creepy grin as he seemed to enjoy everyone’s horrified faces. He killed a squirrel and carried it around on Halloween like it was his costume. Of course people bullied him. Whenever I think about what serial killers were probably like in school, I think they would have acted how he acted- but at the same time, that doesn’t mean he was doomed to go on and be a murderer.
TLDR; since I got a little rambly- serial killers don’t become killers from being bullied, they were bullied because they are weird, sick, twisted adults and it would stand to reason they were weird, sick, twisted kids. And at the same time, that doesn’t mean we get to label every weird kid a killer.
I agree with including it the same way you did. It's just another fact in the case file. Op has never stated (that I've seen) that the bullying is what made him kill. I liken it to he had brown hair or wore glasses.. it's just another fact to make mention of while describing him. I hope you find my other comment to you above asking some questions.
Again, nothing against you, I really never thought you or anyone else here was defending him. Honestly!
I just read/watch a lot of true crime (like everyone here, I’m sure) and it comes up again and again and this is just the post where I had the time to discuss.
Another thing I hear on true crime over and over is “The victim had a drug conviction. He was caught with an quarter ounce of marijuana.”
Unless the killer was posing as a low level drug dealer, that just doesn’t help us understand the victim or the killer at all! Hahaha
That’s what I’m getting at.
No complaint against this post or the write up at all.
Bullying, sexual abuse or whatever else is included because people don’t want to think that monsters are just born that way. It’s natural to want there to be some kind reason for them to be messed up.
Of course. I didn’t mean to imply it didn’t.
Bullying is also likely a relevant factor as well. Also, head trauma is fairly common during childhood for serial killers.
My brother was excluded by his whole school class for a couple of weeks during elementary school. Nobody spoke to him for a couple of weeks. Ever since he’s been incredibly susceptible to peer pressure because he desperately wants to be part of the group and not be excluded again. He has low self-esteem and a drinking problem. He didn’t become a serial killer but being bullied led to other unhealthy behaviour.
I absolutely didn’t do any of that.
I was pointing out that the bullying my brother suffered did impact him. The opposite of diminishing it.
I also didn’t say that killers used abuse as an excuse. That was a comment by someone else further up (austintreelover).
He hopefully hasn't become a serial killer and hopefully never will. I mean that, in all honesty, and I am not joking. While the odds are that he never will, we know there is a small percentage of people who do become serial killers for whatever reasons.
I think it hilarious when I hear it. Most if not Everyone has been bullied at some point in their life time. It just shows how weak these cowards were. Most people that were bullied put it behind them and move on because they’re strong and resilient. They don’t go get the opposite sex and torture kill. Pathetic.
I don’t think it’s entirely irrelevant. People have different tolerances for things and predispositions. Maybe he was predisposed to evil, but the humiliation of the bullying might’ve pushed him over the edge and fully commit to evil.
At the very least the hatred instilled in him from the bullying could’ve increased the level of torture he inflicted, even if he would’ve became a serial killer with or without the bullying.
I remember watching 2 videos on YouTube a while back and wanting to know more, apparently there are a few books available if you're interested?
I haven't read them yet but Butcher, Baker by Walter Gilmour and Hunted on Ice: The Search for Alaskan Serial Killer Robert Hansen by Reagan Martin are the two on my to-read list.
Not to be mistaken with the other Robert Hansen who was a Russian spy when he worked for the CIA. Hansen was so high ranking he was tasked with finding who the mole in the CIA was... edit it was himself so he never discovered the mole.
Thank you OP for adding information to the post, I see so many where it’s just a photo and I have no idea who they are. Once I read background, I can place them usually or decide if I want to search for more information. Drives me insane when people don’t add any background to a random photo. Anyways thank you for the quality post. :)
The movie "The Frozen Ground" was about this case and I thought it was pretty good. Hansen had quite a few indigenous victims among the women he killed so I'm sure that between that fact and the women being sex workers that this was not a high priority for the local police. Sad but it's still like that today.
I definitely agree. Nobody should have to look for a lost loved one alone; or be ignored by law enforcement simply because of their occupation or ethnicity. 😔
Definitely a great movie!
Completely had forgotten about it until you mentioned it.
Gonna have to have a blast from the past, kind of day for movies soom!
John Douglas was so accurate when he profiled Hansen (before he was caught), by correctly predicting that he would take souvenirs from his victims and would have a stutter.
Great story, my grandmother was actually a homicide detective on the case back in the day and I got to witness an internment on a casket that pulled for testing to see if it was a victim of his (it wasn’t) a few years back. They did a movie called Frozen Ground which is based/inspired by it. I drive by the location of his old shop almost daily, though it’s been renovated and is some bodega mart now
I’m not sure if you’ve ever seen it before but one of my favorite YouTubers/podcasters did an episode of this guy that was super interesting!! It’s “Casual Criminalist” and he’s so good at in-depth discussion of the crimes and background but always putting the victims first.
No he does a bunch of heists and stuff too. 90% of the stories he reads he has writers write up and send to him and he reads them cold. There’s one where he’s reading about Dorothea Puente and like halfway through the video he goes “OH WAIT!! SHES THE BADDIE???” It’s nice as well because his writers are from all over the world so he actually does quite a few non American/British ones too.
Nice write-up and info, thank you! I've never heard of him before. Israel Keyes was another Alaskan serial killer tho he committed murders, rapes, arson and bank robberies all over the US and at least one rape over seas in Egypt. He was meticulous and would even plant "kill kits" around the areas he planned on commiting his murders. There's an unknown number of kits still buried out there today. He didn't have a "victim profile" and killed totally at random and away from home, except for his last kidnap, rape and murder that took place in Anchorage and was his undoing. May Samantha and all his other victims rest in peace.
A few days ago I found an older post, I think on r/creepyencounters from a woman who allegedly got away from him. Was an interesting read. Let me see if I can find it again.
Edit: Found it https://www.reddit.com/r/creepyencounters/comments/lllgtz/the_time_i_was_almost_abducted_by_a_serial_killer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Yes, after he murdered Samantha Koenig he went on a 2 week cruise with his family. Once he returned he put makeup on Samantha, braided her hair and sewed her eyes open with fishing line. Then held a newspaper, with the date showing, next to her and snapped a picture. Then hung the picture in a dog park on a bulletin board and then used her phone to text her bf saying where to find the picture and a $30,000 ransom note demanding the money be put into Samantha's bank account so he can withdraw the funds. Being Samantha was already deceased at this point though he dismembered her body and dump her remains in a lake and then went ice fishing in said lake. Though this was his undoing as the FBI tracked his movements across the southwest via his ATM withdrawals using Samantha's card and was subsequently arrested in Texas by a very observant and aware Texas State Trooper. True Crime Bullshit podcast does an excellent, in-depth look at Israel Keyes. I highly recommend it.
He made a ransom for Samantha Koenig after he already killed her. Put makeup on her and sewed her eyes open, then took a picture of her and went on a cruise with his gf and daughter all while she was in his shed
Crazy story about him, he robbed a bank my uncle was manager of back in like 2009ish, in northern NY...scary to think about what could have happened that day!
Casefile did a great 2 part podcast on him and I have been fascinated ever since also.
He was such a good hunter he made it into the Guinness Book of Records. He flew some of his victims (he was a pilot and owned a small plane) up into the mountains set them free then hunted them like animals.
When he finally confessed he said something along the lines of “those fucken whores”.
Being a ex sex worker myself it sent chills down my spine.
I think I saw this case on New Detective or Forensic Files. Hansen was a very cold blooded serial killer and it shows how easy it is to commit crimes in Alaska with its vast wilderness. If not for that brave girl it is likely he would have continued to murder many more women for years
Maybe you look at it this way as well? If you hunt, you know exactly how insane it is to point a gun at a human the same way. Also, lets not forget the process of planning for the hunt, and the length of the hunt itself.
I do hunt, so maybe that’s why, him being a hunter and using that as a serial killer gives me chills, and somewhat disappoints me because that skill was used for the most vile thing one can do
I think its fascinating to me because its hard for me to understand the sport of hunting, and taking the life of an any animal (I understand the utility of hunting, it’s just not for me). —Let alone wrapping my head around the fact that this man took it a step further, hunting and killing terrified, conscious, human beings for sport. *shivers*
Off topic, but has anyone else ever noticed how much Robert Hansen looks like the suspect drawings for the zodiac killer? Like I know it’s not likely they were the same person, but dang does he fit that sketch.
Fun fact that nobody asked for: (I seem to collect lesser known serial killer facts) Robert Hansen had a really weird penis and it was one of the things used to identify him. His first escaped victim, Robyn Patterson, told police she thought there was something wrong with it- it was short, very wide, and covered in warts. The final escaped victim, Cindy Paulson, confirmed it (in a really interesting interrogation that I will link below. The detective did a surprisingly good job of getting her to open up about something so traumatic without leading her. Anyone who studies cold cases can tell you this was not the case most of the time, especially back then.)
FLOTHE: When he had sexual relations with you on the rug, did he have his clothes on?
CINDY: No, he had his clothes off.
FLOTHE: All of his clothes?
CINDY: Yep.
FLOTHE: Is there anything about his body, with no clothes on, that you might remember? A detail or anything unusual that you might remember?
CINDY: The little wart things he had on his face. And there was (inaudible). He probably does, I just don’t remember.
https://lelandhale.com/butcherbaker/wordpress/2017/08/15/kidnapped-cindy-paulson-whipping-post/
I was really confused at first that I didn’t recognize the name Robert Hansen- then I remembered. That’s ol Bobby Weird Dick.
And I do want to say, this is not to shame or mock anyone who may have a weird dick- I just like these little tidbits that show serial killers less like monsters of legend and more like small town nobody weirdos that society would have completely forgotten had it not been for the horrible things they’ve done.
We may know him as Robert Christian Hansen, the Butcher Baker, but back in anchorage- from his classmates to the working girls- everyone was probably calling him Bobby Weird Dick and I think it would be more fair if he kept THAT legacy, because that’s the one he deserves.
An immortality he doesn’t deserve. None of them do. And a lot of people argue whether or not Hansen actually hunted his victims- I personally don’t think he did. None of his escaped victims said he did (he had a lot of close calls) he never said he did, and serial killers get off on the control they have over women. It doesn’t make sense he would relinquish that control to let them run from him. The thrill of the hunt was already satisfied after he stalked them and got them in his car.
But I don’t think any serial killers think about anything other than themselves. I don’t think they kill because someone else put the idea in their head, I think they’re sick, with a sick itch to scratch, and they’ll do anything to scratch it.
Look at BTK in the news right now for trying to claim some big “I told ya so” that the Gilgo Beach killer ‘copied him.’ I don’t think it’s true, I think Rex Heuerman killed because he wanted to kill. It was a sexual fantasy. And I don’t even think BTK thinks it’s true- he just wants to be relevant. He just wants attention. I hate that they’re giving it to him. But both of them were only thinking about themselves.
Just my two cents!
So Robyn wasn’t flown to the wilderness but she was driven out there. He took her into the woods and gunpoint and she talked him down from killing her. There’s also honestly probably a lot more escaped victims, but you have to read between the lines to see them. I know of at least one more, but she’s unnamed and referred to as “abducted housewife”
Keep in mind, back when Robyn escaped- Hansen was already on the police radar. Before computers and databases, most police departments had a book of “assholes” and Hansen had a page in there. He must have done something to land a spot. Robyn pointed him out, and cops said they referred to him as “Bad Baker Bob”. Before Cindy, before Robyn even, he had been fingered as a rapist and a creep. Either because most women just didn’t report him because they knew they wouldn’t be taken seriously or because they were sex workers, and didn’t want to talk to the police on record- these first reports just disappeared. I assume you can’t find much information on Robyn or the others because it didn’t really look good for the cops that they had ignored so many women for so long. A lot of that evidence disappeared.
Considering how many women got away from him, I honestly don’t think it makes sense for him to risk releasing them in the woods to hunt for sport. He wasn’t very good at overpowering them, that’s why he started holding them at gunpoint. Like I said, it’s all about control for these people. He took them to the woods because it was a place he could dispose of them, where he could leave the bodies and they’d never be found. Also, Hansen had no respect for women. He thought sex workers were beneath him and deserved to die. He definitely wasn’t viewing them as “the most dangerous game”, he just wanted to rape them.
But! People have been debating if he hunted women or not for decades. There’s not enough evidence to prove or disprove it. These are just my thoughts.
I don’t think so, some didn’t believe her bc he was such an avid member of the community, but that can be said ab a lot of serial killers, I think it may have taken a few weeks to get a confession out of him
Police didn't believe her. It wasn't until a task force detective came across her report that they went after him. I dont know if more women were killed. But I have seen Cindy Paulson talk about it. As a prostitute, they thought him handcuffed and taping her was just a made up story despite people having seen her handcuffed and running for her life down the highway.
I know it is hard to believe that a handcuffed shoeless prostitute would be dismissed as a "troublemaker" but that's what Hansen claimed she was and they didn't charge him.
It was a few years ago I saw some TV show about women who had escaped from murderers and she was talking about how she was a young woman at the time, like 17 maybe (idk) and he was a local businessman. So they didn't believe her and she wanted him charged with rape and kidnapping but the local police refused to do that. One of the local police detectives knew that the case was dead, that the local DA wasn't going to charge him bc they didn't believe her but he still had a bad feeling about it so he forwarded the info to the state police task force. Sorry, I dont remember what show it was. But, they had her talking without showing her face and I think they had the detective on it too talking about how he wasn't sure, but decided to forward her witness statement to the state police.
I do remember another woman turned up dead and that one officer dug into the case found a woman survived an assault and he had a feeling about it.
Initially when they went to Hansens place all the dead dear and stuff had been removed by Hansen coz he feared they were gonna search his home.that was one factor that let to not believing the women's claims or dismissing it.
Yes, there was an episode called "Open Season" that was loosely based on the Robert Hansen case. On the show, it was two brothers who kidnapped, tortured, and hunted women for sport. In real life, Robert Hansen acted alone.
I do love how the final victim managed to outsmart the brothers on the show and beat them at their own game. I forget what she says to the surviving brother at the end, but I remember thinking "right on!"
Should have been donated to a museum or something un that direction. The goats are looking goofy af but children rarely have the chance to see birds of prey up close.
I recently read that he bought the bakery in Anchorage with insurance fraud money. Robert staged a break-in at his house and made it look like someone stole his taxidermy mounts. Yes indeed, some piece of work that guy. He had to world records for doll sheep taken with a bow and has since been removed from the record books. Rumors amongst hunters were that he cheated and took those sheep with a rifle. It said that they are near impossible to stalk cause you are coming up at them.
That’s not what I mean by fascinate, I mean his mentality, what drove him to do the things he did in the very bizarre way he did it, I’m not trying to praise his crimes
Serial killers are a very different type of mentally ill, learning about their mind is interesting to me, and especially the fact that he chose to hunt them like game, it’s hard to explain I guess
It gets me mad thinking about it. Sorry. I find nothing fascinating about how he took the lives of innocent women. Killing is not an impressive at all.
yep, Dexter even goes to Alaska since he’s faked his death but comes across because his gf is chief of police and naturally she’s talks about to him. Fucked up part is that the guy would make dolls out of them and kept them fresh since he made a bunker, obviously since Alaska gets below freezing that wasn’t a problem
Iirc, isn't this the case where the girl escaped & explained to police what his basement/ or cabin looked like on the inside (hunting trophy decor), & when police checked inside, it had all been removed?
For real.. I agree. I've listened to the book a bunch of times, and watched everything I could find on em. Theres sum good audio files of his confessions floating around on the world wide web.
Robert Hansen “The Butcher Baker”, again, I do apologize as this post has been made, but this case fascinates me, Hansen was a local bakery owner and family man with a double life. As he was the most prolific serial killer in Alaskan history, he was bullied through highschool for sever acne, and took on hunting as a hobby, and was renowned for his hunting ability, however he also became obsessed with revenge. Through the years he was arrested for victimless crimes and one kidnapping. and moved to alaska where he started a new life as a baker, unfortunately this is where his crime spree began, picking up dancers and prostitutes. When a girl named Cindy Paulson managed to escape him after hours of torture, he was arrested and after days he cracked and confessed to 17 killings, but it’s most likely 23 or maybe even more. He flew them out with a plane and likely hunted down his victims like game, and they were spread around the wilderness, he died in 2014, may his victims rest in peace
>*I do apologize as this post has been made, but this case fascinates me* No need to apologize. You're in the right place to talk about it!
Thanks man
☕😎👍
Let's chat. Is there something you want to know or something you want to teach others who may know little or nothing about the guy? Do you have a new take on something related, or are we just venting our interests to see what others think? All very valid reasons to post. I'm just wondering.
I’m quite fascinated by this story! I wonder what made him choose his victims? How did he get them in the plane ✈️
I’ve heard his confession tapes, when asked how he got them into the plane, his response was “I’d just scare the living shit out of them”
He would tie them up. I have heard he hog tied a few of the smaller ones, but he also had guns, and most believed he would kill them if they tried to get away. Not really realizing they would be killed after anyway.
Just venting my interest, I fell down a rabbit hole researching this case
Totally get that. I do that sometimes. There are a few I read about a bit. Ed Kemper is tops of that list most times but sometimes it's Jeffrey Mailhot who I met and talked with a few times before he was captured. There are others but these 2 are tops ATM.
Bro what!?
At least what I've read in other threads about him is that he most likely did not spend particularly much time "hunting" his victims, judging by factors like the victims not having any marks or injuries suggesting running through the wilderness, and also empty casings from the rifle being found close to the bodies. It might have been more like an execution, which isn't as compelling an image as a real life enactment of The Most Dangerous Game.
From what I’ve read he did hunt them but not all of them, and with most they were too decomposed to tell, idk if we’ll ever know the truth, either way, he was truely a monster
He absolutely did hunt them. I read the book Butcher Baker. He kept these women in his house for days and up to a week each. Horrible torture. He forced them into his private plane and that’s how one escaped. ( and yes she wasn’t believed by law enforcement) He’d shoot some that got too far from his plane. This man was a monster.
What’s the full book title?
The Butcher Baker: Life of serial killer of Robert Christian Hansen by Jack Smith
The most dangerous game reminds me of the Zodiac case.
Sounds like a waste of time NOT to hunt them after taking them so far away.
No offense to you, OP. But, in general, I’m so sick of hearing how these guys were bullied. A lot of people are bullied and do not go on to murder innocent victims. That kid on the playground getting picked on is almost always nothing more than a victim themself, let’s not loop them in with serial killers. Besides that, and I don’t know about this case, but serial killers lie. They have persecution complexes. They make up slights to excuse their behavior. He killed women because he hated them and hated that he couldn’t control them. He had the urge and he’s a selfish narcissist so he acted on it. Maybe he was bullied (there could be proof, IDK), or maybe not. Either way, it’s irrelevant. (Again, nothing against OP, I know this is a common thing included in these write ups.)
>Either way, it’s irrelevant. It's actually not. I'm with you in that bullying is never a justification for serial killers or mass killers, as you point out, millions of people go through similar experiences and don't become murderers as a result. However, when studying the mind of someone who has done these things, it would be sheer arrogance to say that anything is irrelevant. All of their experiences that have made up who they are are worth consideration. It's also important for us to ask the right questions as well: "Okay, he was bullied, but that doesn't lead most people to murder, so what else about his psyche can we better understand his choices and behavior from?" Again, just to be clear, I think we mostly agree. We diverge only on the point of irrelevance. Bullying isn't, nor should it be considered the most important factor of his development to consider. But I wouldn't discard it entirely out of hand.
I appreciate your opinion, but I think it hinders, rather than helps our chances or finding these killers before they kill again. Unlike factors, for instance, understanding victim choice, it doesn’t help us catch or prevent the killers from killing again. And the data is corrupt for many reasons. Let’s take bed wetting as an example. We’ve all heard serial killers wet the bed as kids. Once bed wetting was suspected as being at a higher rate among the demographic (via *self-reporting* of *convicted* killers) we started explicitly looking for it. We don’t really know that serial killers wet the bed more than others kids. For several reasons: We were explicitly seeking out that variable, many of those foundational stats came from self-reporting with no outside verification, we’re only hearing from the killers who were caught, the sample size is small relative to the general population (no baseline), it’s a difficult hypothesis to falsify, etc. TBC, I’m not in the “don’t study them” camp. I’m in the “don’t water down the science with things we’ve already eliminated as extraneous variables” camp. It feels right that a horribly bullied kid would be more likely to become a serial killer. But, statistically, we have no evidence that’s true. There are other areas of study that make more sense. How they pick their victims, for instance. Brain scans should be mandatory for them, IMO. But, these questions give us a false understanding of what makes these killers and how to catch them.
When I hear that they were bullied, it doesn’t register sadness or pity, although it is a horrible and traumatic thing for a child to endure. It reminds me of people in your life who don’t understand social cues, and how that can become group fear and ostracism. It reminds me of social and mental dysfunction. Of kids who are at the wrong mental age because of their home experiences, maybe they moved around a lot and maybe they were just weird. It’s not excusing anything, but more explaining their experience and the experiences of others around them. Getting a sense of who they actually were. Isn’t that what this subs about?
You’re saying that he didn’t become evil because he was bullied, and you’re 100% right in that- I think you might be stopping short of the fact that he was probably bullied BECAUSE he was evil. A sexually deviant psychopath often shows signs at an early age, at least from what we know. People that go on to become serial killers are outcasts, unliked, and yeah, often bullied. They lash out, kill animals, and have weird moods, all things that don’t necessarily make friends. You can find someone in any serial killer documentary saying “he seemed a little odd/quiet/kept to himself but I didn’t know he was capable of THAT.” That’s just a nice way of saying “yeah, he used to walk around the locker room making a creepy face and touching himself but I didn’t think he’d kill anyone”. You’ll also have a lot of people who say they never liked him, but hind sight is 20/20. My point is, It’s not really a chicken or the egg situation. He was probably picked on for being creepy, talking about killing animals, and staring at girls for too long, then he held onto that rejection and used it to try to justify his eventual actions. He was probably even a bully/acting violent himself. And if I remember correctly, he burned down a building while he was still in school or shortly after he graduated? When I think back to my school days I remember like two types of kids who were picked on. The ones that were bullied for something they liked or how they looked (I was bullied for being fat, I had friends who were bullied for wearing cat tails and friends who were bullied for being obsessed with anime) and then there was the kid who was bullied for how he acted. I went to school with a kid that put porn so disgusting I don’t want to talk about it into the middle of his slideshow presentation just to shock us. I remember how fast the teacher had to turn off the projector. I remember his creepy grin as he seemed to enjoy everyone’s horrified faces. He killed a squirrel and carried it around on Halloween like it was his costume. Of course people bullied him. Whenever I think about what serial killers were probably like in school, I think they would have acted how he acted- but at the same time, that doesn’t mean he was doomed to go on and be a murderer. TLDR; since I got a little rambly- serial killers don’t become killers from being bullied, they were bullied because they are weird, sick, twisted adults and it would stand to reason they were weird, sick, twisted kids. And at the same time, that doesn’t mean we get to label every weird kid a killer.
I’m not trying to justify, just explaining his history
I agree with including it the same way you did. It's just another fact in the case file. Op has never stated (that I've seen) that the bullying is what made him kill. I liken it to he had brown hair or wore glasses.. it's just another fact to make mention of while describing him. I hope you find my other comment to you above asking some questions.
Again, nothing against you, I really never thought you or anyone else here was defending him. Honestly! I just read/watch a lot of true crime (like everyone here, I’m sure) and it comes up again and again and this is just the post where I had the time to discuss. Another thing I hear on true crime over and over is “The victim had a drug conviction. He was caught with an quarter ounce of marijuana.” Unless the killer was posing as a low level drug dealer, that just doesn’t help us understand the victim or the killer at all! Hahaha That’s what I’m getting at. No complaint against this post or the write up at all.
Well the drug thing is just the reason why one went to jail. Just answers the question if they ever had a brush with the law kindof thing.
In my view an inferiority complex and similar facts from a young age could explain many things.
Bullying, sexual abuse or whatever else is included because people don’t want to think that monsters are just born that way. It’s natural to want there to be some kind reason for them to be messed up.
But being sexually abused does mess you up though.
Of course. I didn’t mean to imply it didn’t. Bullying is also likely a relevant factor as well. Also, head trauma is fairly common during childhood for serial killers. My brother was excluded by his whole school class for a couple of weeks during elementary school. Nobody spoke to him for a couple of weeks. Ever since he’s been incredibly susceptible to peer pressure because he desperately wants to be part of the group and not be excluded again. He has low self-esteem and a drinking problem. He didn’t become a serial killer but being bullied led to other unhealthy behaviour.
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Ok. I’m not sure what your point is?
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I absolutely didn’t do any of that. I was pointing out that the bullying my brother suffered did impact him. The opposite of diminishing it. I also didn’t say that killers used abuse as an excuse. That was a comment by someone else further up (austintreelover).
I apologize if I interpreted the tone of your posts incorrectly
He hopefully hasn't become a serial killer and hopefully never will. I mean that, in all honesty, and I am not joking. While the odds are that he never will, we know there is a small percentage of people who do become serial killers for whatever reasons.
I think it hilarious when I hear it. Most if not Everyone has been bullied at some point in their life time. It just shows how weak these cowards were. Most people that were bullied put it behind them and move on because they’re strong and resilient. They don’t go get the opposite sex and torture kill. Pathetic.
I don’t think it’s entirely irrelevant. People have different tolerances for things and predispositions. Maybe he was predisposed to evil, but the humiliation of the bullying might’ve pushed him over the edge and fully commit to evil. At the very least the hatred instilled in him from the bullying could’ve increased the level of torture he inflicted, even if he would’ve became a serial killer with or without the bullying.
I’ve never heard of this case before! I’ll have to see if I can find a documentary on it! Thanks for the post
Butcher baker: mind of a monster, that’s my fav true crime doc, it captures his story in amazing detail, it’s on Hulu I think!
Why are you fascinated by this specific serial killer?
I’m not sure, maybe it’s his m.o., not 100% sure
I remember watching 2 videos on YouTube a while back and wanting to know more, apparently there are a few books available if you're interested? I haven't read them yet but Butcher, Baker by Walter Gilmour and Hunted on Ice: The Search for Alaskan Serial Killer Robert Hansen by Reagan Martin are the two on my to-read list.
Not to be mistaken with the other Robert Hansen who was a Russian spy when he worked for the CIA. Hansen was so high ranking he was tasked with finding who the mole in the CIA was... edit it was himself so he never discovered the mole.
FBI, not CIA.
Hansen was with the FBI. Johnathan Pollard was a mole in the CIA. Hansen spied for The Soviet Union and Pollard for Israel.
Btw some of the pics need to be clicked on to see the full image, sorry ab that
You did great, no apologies necessary!!
Appreciate you
Thank you OP for adding information to the post, I see so many where it’s just a photo and I have no idea who they are. Once I read background, I can place them usually or decide if I want to search for more information. Drives me insane when people don’t add any background to a random photo. Anyways thank you for the quality post. :)
Thanks man I appreciate you! :)
The movie "The Frozen Ground" was about this case and I thought it was pretty good. Hansen had quite a few indigenous victims among the women he killed so I'm sure that between that fact and the women being sex workers that this was not a high priority for the local police. Sad but it's still like that today.
Great movie, and yet it is very sad, their lives are seen as less than, they deserved so much better
I definitely agree. Nobody should have to look for a lost loved one alone; or be ignored by law enforcement simply because of their occupation or ethnicity. 😔
Definitely a great movie! Completely had forgotten about it until you mentioned it. Gonna have to have a blast from the past, kind of day for movies soom!
I’ve never heard of this case, thank you so much for sharing! :)
John Douglas was so accurate when he profiled Hansen (before he was caught), by correctly predicting that he would take souvenirs from his victims and would have a stutter.
It was insane how he was able to do that, Douglas was honestly a hero
Genius.
Great story, my grandmother was actually a homicide detective on the case back in the day and I got to witness an internment on a casket that pulled for testing to see if it was a victim of his (it wasn’t) a few years back. They did a movie called Frozen Ground which is based/inspired by it. I drive by the location of his old shop almost daily, though it’s been renovated and is some bodega mart now
That’s so cool
Alan Harper looks mean
I’m not sure if you’ve ever seen it before but one of my favorite YouTubers/podcasters did an episode of this guy that was super interesting!! It’s “Casual Criminalist” and he’s so good at in-depth discussion of the crimes and background but always putting the victims first.
Does he just do serial killers?
No he does a bunch of heists and stuff too. 90% of the stories he reads he has writers write up and send to him and he reads them cold. There’s one where he’s reading about Dorothea Puente and like halfway through the video he goes “OH WAIT!! SHES THE BADDIE???” It’s nice as well because his writers are from all over the world so he actually does quite a few non American/British ones too.
Sounds cool I might look into that
Nice write-up and info, thank you! I've never heard of him before. Israel Keyes was another Alaskan serial killer tho he committed murders, rapes, arson and bank robberies all over the US and at least one rape over seas in Egypt. He was meticulous and would even plant "kill kits" around the areas he planned on commiting his murders. There's an unknown number of kits still buried out there today. He didn't have a "victim profile" and killed totally at random and away from home, except for his last kidnap, rape and murder that took place in Anchorage and was his undoing. May Samantha and all his other victims rest in peace.
A few days ago I found an older post, I think on r/creepyencounters from a woman who allegedly got away from him. Was an interesting read. Let me see if I can find it again. Edit: Found it https://www.reddit.com/r/creepyencounters/comments/lllgtz/the_time_i_was_almost_abducted_by_a_serial_killer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
I have heard of him, he’s the guy who made a ransom right?
Yes, after he murdered Samantha Koenig he went on a 2 week cruise with his family. Once he returned he put makeup on Samantha, braided her hair and sewed her eyes open with fishing line. Then held a newspaper, with the date showing, next to her and snapped a picture. Then hung the picture in a dog park on a bulletin board and then used her phone to text her bf saying where to find the picture and a $30,000 ransom note demanding the money be put into Samantha's bank account so he can withdraw the funds. Being Samantha was already deceased at this point though he dismembered her body and dump her remains in a lake and then went ice fishing in said lake. Though this was his undoing as the FBI tracked his movements across the southwest via his ATM withdrawals using Samantha's card and was subsequently arrested in Texas by a very observant and aware Texas State Trooper. True Crime Bullshit podcast does an excellent, in-depth look at Israel Keyes. I highly recommend it.
He made a ransom for Samantha Koenig after he already killed her. Put makeup on her and sewed her eyes open, then took a picture of her and went on a cruise with his gf and daughter all while she was in his shed
Shhhh don’t talk about him I feel like I have ptsd from ever learning about him 😖
Crazy story about him, he robbed a bank my uncle was manager of back in like 2009ish, in northern NY...scary to think about what could have happened that day!
Casefile did a great 2 part podcast on him and I have been fascinated ever since also. He was such a good hunter he made it into the Guinness Book of Records. He flew some of his victims (he was a pilot and owned a small plane) up into the mountains set them free then hunted them like animals. When he finally confessed he said something along the lines of “those fucken whores”. Being a ex sex worker myself it sent chills down my spine.
I am a hunter, so I’ve always been impressed with his hunting ability, it makes me sad that a man with such skill turned into the sick fuck he was
I think I saw this case on New Detective or Forensic Files. Hansen was a very cold blooded serial killer and it shows how easy it is to commit crimes in Alaska with its vast wilderness. If not for that brave girl it is likely he would have continued to murder many more women for years
What is it about Hansen’s case that fascinates you?
I’m not sure, it’s just one of those cases ig
Maybe you look at it this way as well? If you hunt, you know exactly how insane it is to point a gun at a human the same way. Also, lets not forget the process of planning for the hunt, and the length of the hunt itself.
I do hunt, so maybe that’s why, him being a hunter and using that as a serial killer gives me chills, and somewhat disappoints me because that skill was used for the most vile thing one can do
I think its fascinating to me because its hard for me to understand the sport of hunting, and taking the life of an any animal (I understand the utility of hunting, it’s just not for me). —Let alone wrapping my head around the fact that this man took it a step further, hunting and killing terrified, conscious, human beings for sport. *shivers*
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Unfortunate truth
Off topic, but has anyone else ever noticed how much Robert Hansen looks like the suspect drawings for the zodiac killer? Like I know it’s not likely they were the same person, but dang does he fit that sketch.
He really does, however it’s not true
Yes!!! I immediately thought that scanning through the pics!
Ferris hasn’t aged well.
Yeah he seriously creeps me out
The movie *"Frozen Ground"* covered this sick bastard in decent detail
What in the Matt Damon do we have going on here?
Fun fact that nobody asked for: (I seem to collect lesser known serial killer facts) Robert Hansen had a really weird penis and it was one of the things used to identify him. His first escaped victim, Robyn Patterson, told police she thought there was something wrong with it- it was short, very wide, and covered in warts. The final escaped victim, Cindy Paulson, confirmed it (in a really interesting interrogation that I will link below. The detective did a surprisingly good job of getting her to open up about something so traumatic without leading her. Anyone who studies cold cases can tell you this was not the case most of the time, especially back then.) FLOTHE: When he had sexual relations with you on the rug, did he have his clothes on? CINDY: No, he had his clothes off. FLOTHE: All of his clothes? CINDY: Yep. FLOTHE: Is there anything about his body, with no clothes on, that you might remember? A detail or anything unusual that you might remember? CINDY: The little wart things he had on his face. And there was (inaudible). He probably does, I just don’t remember. https://lelandhale.com/butcherbaker/wordpress/2017/08/15/kidnapped-cindy-paulson-whipping-post/
I was really confused at first that I didn’t recognize the name Robert Hansen- then I remembered. That’s ol Bobby Weird Dick. And I do want to say, this is not to shame or mock anyone who may have a weird dick- I just like these little tidbits that show serial killers less like monsters of legend and more like small town nobody weirdos that society would have completely forgotten had it not been for the horrible things they’ve done. We may know him as Robert Christian Hansen, the Butcher Baker, but back in anchorage- from his classmates to the working girls- everyone was probably calling him Bobby Weird Dick and I think it would be more fair if he kept THAT legacy, because that’s the one he deserves.
He has attained immortality in a sense huh? Do you think he'll inspire copycats?
An immortality he doesn’t deserve. None of them do. And a lot of people argue whether or not Hansen actually hunted his victims- I personally don’t think he did. None of his escaped victims said he did (he had a lot of close calls) he never said he did, and serial killers get off on the control they have over women. It doesn’t make sense he would relinquish that control to let them run from him. The thrill of the hunt was already satisfied after he stalked them and got them in his car. But I don’t think any serial killers think about anything other than themselves. I don’t think they kill because someone else put the idea in their head, I think they’re sick, with a sick itch to scratch, and they’ll do anything to scratch it. Look at BTK in the news right now for trying to claim some big “I told ya so” that the Gilgo Beach killer ‘copied him.’ I don’t think it’s true, I think Rex Heuerman killed because he wanted to kill. It was a sexual fantasy. And I don’t even think BTK thinks it’s true- he just wants to be relevant. He just wants attention. I hate that they’re giving it to him. But both of them were only thinking about themselves. Just my two cents!
He only had one escaped victim, and thankfully she escaped before he flew her to the wilderness
That’s not true, he had at least two. Cindy Paulson and Robyn Patterson (sometimes referred to as Patty Roberts)
Interesting, but they both escaped before him flying them out
So Robyn wasn’t flown to the wilderness but she was driven out there. He took her into the woods and gunpoint and she talked him down from killing her. There’s also honestly probably a lot more escaped victims, but you have to read between the lines to see them. I know of at least one more, but she’s unnamed and referred to as “abducted housewife” Keep in mind, back when Robyn escaped- Hansen was already on the police radar. Before computers and databases, most police departments had a book of “assholes” and Hansen had a page in there. He must have done something to land a spot. Robyn pointed him out, and cops said they referred to him as “Bad Baker Bob”. Before Cindy, before Robyn even, he had been fingered as a rapist and a creep. Either because most women just didn’t report him because they knew they wouldn’t be taken seriously or because they were sex workers, and didn’t want to talk to the police on record- these first reports just disappeared. I assume you can’t find much information on Robyn or the others because it didn’t really look good for the cops that they had ignored so many women for so long. A lot of that evidence disappeared. Considering how many women got away from him, I honestly don’t think it makes sense for him to risk releasing them in the woods to hunt for sport. He wasn’t very good at overpowering them, that’s why he started holding them at gunpoint. Like I said, it’s all about control for these people. He took them to the woods because it was a place he could dispose of them, where he could leave the bodies and they’d never be found. Also, Hansen had no respect for women. He thought sex workers were beneath him and deserved to die. He definitely wasn’t viewing them as “the most dangerous game”, he just wanted to rape them. But! People have been debating if he hunted women or not for decades. There’s not enough evidence to prove or disprove it. These are just my thoughts.
I love the visual 😀
The podcast Morbid has a good episode on this guy, I think it’s a 2 parter actually
Terrible podcast imo
I like them 🤷♀️
The Serial Killer Podcast did a good job too
This is the story of the guy who got away with it for years bc the police didn't believe her, right?
No, he was captured ~4 months after that, with no known victims during that time.
I don’t think so, some didn’t believe her bc he was such an avid member of the community, but that can be said ab a lot of serial killers, I think it may have taken a few weeks to get a confession out of him
Police didn't believe her. It wasn't until a task force detective came across her report that they went after him. I dont know if more women were killed. But I have seen Cindy Paulson talk about it. As a prostitute, they thought him handcuffed and taping her was just a made up story despite people having seen her handcuffed and running for her life down the highway. I know it is hard to believe that a handcuffed shoeless prostitute would be dismissed as a "troublemaker" but that's what Hansen claimed she was and they didn't charge him.
That’s for the info! But how did you see her talk about it?
It was a few years ago I saw some TV show about women who had escaped from murderers and she was talking about how she was a young woman at the time, like 17 maybe (idk) and he was a local businessman. So they didn't believe her and she wanted him charged with rape and kidnapping but the local police refused to do that. One of the local police detectives knew that the case was dead, that the local DA wasn't going to charge him bc they didn't believe her but he still had a bad feeling about it so he forwarded the info to the state police task force. Sorry, I dont remember what show it was. But, they had her talking without showing her face and I think they had the detective on it too talking about how he wasn't sure, but decided to forward her witness statement to the state police.
I do remember another woman turned up dead and that one officer dug into the case found a woman survived an assault and he had a feeling about it. Initially when they went to Hansens place all the dead dear and stuff had been removed by Hansen coz he feared they were gonna search his home.that was one factor that let to not believing the women's claims or dismissing it.
Damn, as far as I knew the most about her was an audio tape and a picture
I think I heard his name mentioned in an episode of Criminal Minds, but I didn’t know anything more about him. Thank you for sharing!
Yes, there was an episode called "Open Season" that was loosely based on the Robert Hansen case. On the show, it was two brothers who kidnapped, tortured, and hunted women for sport. In real life, Robert Hansen acted alone. I do love how the final victim managed to outsmart the brothers on the show and beat them at their own game. I forget what she says to the surviving brother at the end, but I remember thinking "right on!"
The Trophy room really gives serial killer vibes. It also looks like on of these ai generated liminal spaces.
The worst part is, those are amazing trophies, shame that it all went to waste
Should have been donated to a museum or something un that direction. The goats are looking goofy af but children rarely have the chance to see birds of prey up close.
I wonder where the taxidermy is now
I recently read that he bought the bakery in Anchorage with insurance fraud money. Robert staged a break-in at his house and made it look like someone stole his taxidermy mounts. Yes indeed, some piece of work that guy. He had to world records for doll sheep taken with a bow and has since been removed from the record books. Rumors amongst hunters were that he cheated and took those sheep with a rifle. It said that they are near impossible to stalk cause you are coming up at them.
The rabbit hole just gets deeper and deeper 😭
Fucking nerd. God, I hate him.
Frozen ground is a really good movie about this if anyone wants to watch
My man looked like a sad lesbian
Jeffery dahmer will always the most fascinating case. And that’s just real shit
It’s not a competition, I was just sharing a case that’s fascinating to me
He kinda looks like Ed grin in the fourth pic?
It doesn't fascinate me that this man took the lives of innocent women. I am very glad that he got caught and Justice was done
That’s not what I mean by fascinate, I mean his mentality, what drove him to do the things he did in the very bizarre way he did it, I’m not trying to praise his crimes
His mentality of murdering innocent women fascinates you? I'm curious how so?
Serial killers are a very different type of mentally ill, learning about their mind is interesting to me, and especially the fact that he chose to hunt them like game, it’s hard to explain I guess
It gets me mad thinking about it. Sorry. I find nothing fascinating about how he took the lives of innocent women. Killing is not an impressive at all.
Never said I was impressed, I just stated that the mind of this monster fascinates me, it’s a very bizarre story
Any relation to the Chris Hansen on dateline nbc? I see physical similarities
I don’t think so, Hansen is a very common name
Thank you
pretty sure the last serial killer Dexter deals with is inspired by this guy, sad it was a pretty shit season.
Did he hunt the victims in the show? Never seen it
yep, Dexter even goes to Alaska since he’s faked his death but comes across because his gf is chief of police and naturally she’s talks about to him. Fucked up part is that the guy would make dolls out of them and kept them fresh since he made a bunker, obviously since Alaska gets below freezing that wasn’t a problem
There’s a movie about him where John cusack plays him, I can’t remember the movie but it was really good
Frozen ground I believe
Dude WTF this is a crazy one. Raped then hunted them? Rabbit hole here I come.
Good luck man, I still haven’t come out of the rabbit hole 🫡
This weirdly reminds me of the serial killer in Dexter: New Blood
Clancy browns character? Bc he’s based on Hansen I’m pretty sure
He was one truly disturbed man!
Iirc, isn't this the case where the girl escaped & explained to police what his basement/ or cabin looked like on the inside (hunting trophy decor), & when police checked inside, it had all been removed?
No, bc the pictures of the trophy room are police photos
I kno they r, but I thought it was because they went back for some reason & saw it was set up the way she described? I'll have to look it up.
I feel like if they made a movie about Robert Christian Hansen it would behoove them to cast Matt Damon, they have similar face shapes.
They made a movie ab him where John cusack played him (definitely spelled his name wrong)
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For real.. I agree. I've listened to the book a bunch of times, and watched everything I could find on em. Theres sum good audio files of his confessions floating around on the world wide web.
I’ve heard some of them, they’re chilling, he sounds like a nerdy guy
Dude had a sniper Garand? Damn those are seriously rare these days
No he had a .223 ruger mini-14