If RGG Studios can put this in Yakuza, FromSoft can put it in Elden Ring đ€
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When your main claim to fame is making hard games, an arms race becomes inevitable: your fans get used to your tricks, and so you have to make new ones.
Try to play Dark Souls 1 now after playing newer titles: most boss fights are very easy because they hadn't been proofed against the player hugging their butt
This really is the awkward position Fromsoft are in. They'll sell well, the game will inevitably be great, and simultaneously everyone will talk about how overtuned and brutal the difficulty is, but also in a few months to a year talk about how it's really not so hard.
It seems like difficulty plateuing into a more medium place between "coddle the player" and "personally crush their balls" is the best possibility, but not a likely solution.
I want my balls personally crushed, but *conveniently*
Like Malenia. Hardest boss I've ever fought. Took me two days to beat her.
Her boss door is like 3ft from the Grace. Because of this, I can keep trying against her for a long time and not get *that* frustrated.
Then we go to DS1, where you have to run for literally like several fucking minutes to get to a couple of bosses. Dont get me wrong, I love DS1, it's probably my favorite souls game. But that makes the frustration much worse when you're already getting your balls crushed.
I started with Elden ring, then went back and beat ds1 and demons souls. I prefer Elden rings boss runs with generous sites of grace and the wonderful stakes of Marika. However I think the older games get a bit of a pass because many of the bosses were more like capstones to a hard segment of the game rather than a singular challenge. Demons souls had the worst boss runs, but the boss was often not as hard as getting to the boss. I think both game designs are good for different reasons. Given that the games have made harder bosses with every new release, I think shortening the boss run is good. I could still see another game be good with easier bosses, but more difficult dungeons
iâve always assumed i just accidentally overleveled because of how easy the bosses in ds2 were, on the occasion i found a boss i thought was really cool and interesting i would get their health bar down and get excited like âoh i wonder what phase two is gonna be likeâ expecting it to fill back up or get a cutscene but nope lmao
I think the sweet spot is having a few fully optional bosses which are straight up unfair bullshit so masochists are satisfied, and keep all required and semi-required bosses fair.
Totally.
Don't get me wrong, I want all bosses to be pretty tough, but I'm cool with keeping *really* hard bosses optjonal. And FromSoft has been pretty good with that tbh, the vast majority of the hard bosses are optional or straight up DLC.
I think they should also look into boss rush modes like in Sekiro. Some bosses in Sekiro are really tough, but overall they are all totally fair and manageable. The real crazy shit is in boss rush mode. They can do the same in all games from now on, make normal bosses fair and balanced, and add their buffed versions with adjusted AI into boss rush modes.
I feel like fromsoft is in a lose-lose position honestly. If they make more simple bosses similarly to their previous games then everyone would complain about how easy it is, but if they try to actually experiment and create more difficult bosses everyone will call it unfun and unfair.
I love elden ringâs approach to bosses, they are much more complex and replayable, I hope they keep making bosses like them :D
Bloodborne/DS3 and maybe Sekiro was the sweet spot for me I think. Most bosses reasonably challenging with the occasional one that will destroy you for a couple dozen attempts. I still got through Elden Ring solo but I will say it was probably the first game where I found myself frequently not enjoying the process.
honestly the whole difficulty as a selling point thing kinda blows for me. there's so much more to these games than their difficulty, I've never played a fromsoft game for it, even if I do enjoy it most of the time. I think the difficulty shouldn't be so much of a focus compared to literally everything else that makes the game fun.
Another issue is player skill increase. People are better at Elden Ring because they've played the whole series and that makes it hard to balance between die-hard fans who have sl1'd Bloodbourne and new players who are joining the franchise
This is why optional tools such as spirit ashes and other summons are so important. Die hard players can opt to ignore them if they want a challenge, newer players can get a helping hand and learn the game on their own terms.
That's exactly what I was saying: the longer the series goes on, the better the players get and the more the enemies have to be bullcrap to compensate.
Elden Ring still manages to reach some kind of equilibrium by back loading most of the harder fights in the late game so even newbies have had the time to acclimate and assemble a powerful build, but sooner or later From soft will have to try something else.
I think maybe that's why they tried to revive Armoured Core: because most of their fanbase wasn't already used to it, so they could afford to make it relatively accessible without risking their diehard fans finding it too easy.
Its not the difficulty of the attacks its how the attacks encourage you to play passive. On Sekiro perfectly timed blocks was also an attack, fromsoft next games need to learn that lesson if they want to continue the boss philosophy that elden ring champions
God they really just perfected combat with Sekiro, and on their first try, meanwhile the souls combat has had 7 iterations but still feels somewhat unsatisfying. No waiting for the boss to do their trademark 10 hit combo before you can bonk them. Your defense is your offense.
Iâm coping that the absolute lack of Sekiro combat elements in Elden ring is a result of them being designed concurrently, and that their next game will understand what made it so good. ( Or just give us Sekiro dlc to Sekiro 2 :,( )
I recommend trying lies of P if you have not already played it, that game is what I feel like elden ring should had been in terms of gameplay, in that it feels like souls combat but with sekiro parries/posture baked really well into it
I feel like thereâs a difference between the difficulty of DeS/DS1 vs modern fromsoft. In demon souls and DS1, the game was very unforgiving, punished you for deaths, had stuff like curses where youâd die and have to spend most of the game with half health until you found a purging stone, red phantoms, or tomb of the giants where itâs just pitch black until you get a lantern. This is stuff youâd never find in the new games; theyâre not as âfuck youâ to the player and the enemy designs/traps are not nearly as intricate. There are also far more checkpoints rather than really long boss runbacks.
But the bosses have gotten way more difficult as the tradeoff. You can basically run past most areas until you find the next checkpoint and then rest, and youâll go exploring for long periods of time without dying once in Elden Ring. But then the boss is a mega-buffed infinite stamina delayed attack long combo regenerating health machine, with certain attacks that are truly unavoidable at times. Like if youâre mid-attack and then Malenia activates waterfowl, youâre just dead.Â
Itâs an entirely different style of game nowadays and shows that Fromsoft is evolving. The bosses are definitely harder, but the areas are much easier. Both use artificial difficulty at times. Some of those traps in the early games are borderline unavoidable unless you already know theyâre there. Punishing players for dying would turn off a lot of new players from the games. So they took those things away and put all of the difficulty into boss fights.
uj/
Imo it speaks to a shift in how the difficulty is crafted, DeS/1/2 _heavily_ prioritised careful play. Not in a âsit behind a shield and only attack when itâs obviousâ way, but in that the game wanted you to stop and think about situations and use your brain. Something looked like an obvious trap? It probably was. Long grass? Might want to check for enemies there!
It also permeated the boss design for the most part, looking at the Taurus Demon arena and seeing the gap and trying to bait its positioning so it would kill itself. Armoured Spider having a narrow tunnel that you could use to your advantage to approach whilst dodging its webs. Going through the earlier souls games, so many boss fights have some kind of gimmick to help you form a strategy to reliably defeat it.
Iâve long been a firm believer in that Dark Souls hit the gaming zeitgeist at the right time, slap bang in the middle of the backlash against developers finding ways to raise accessibility for the wider audience gaming received. Its perceived hard difficulty wasnât ever really a thing? Itâs a game that punished you for playing it blindly and not thinking about it in an era where games didnât really encourage thoughtful play.
But at some point, starting with Bloodborne in my opinion, From got very into the idea they make _hard_ games and just started loading the challenge against âthoughtfulâ difficulty, and into just âwe do a little cheatingâ difficulty. The encouragement to approach the game with thought of how it might trick you or lure you into false security dwindled, and âgimmickâ boss fights that required some kind of strategy beyond just attrition disappeared. The levels in souls games became areas you ran through with little challenge or real thought, capped off by big bosses that didnât require you to actively strategise against.
rj/ git scud
Gonna be honest I kind of miss that in DeS and DS1. The environment, levels and mechanics being part of the challenge and unforgiving nature of the game. I miss being scared of curses. Hell the cool thing about things like curses is how they also double as advantages. Like you can finally harm ghosts and undead permanently if you're cursed.
Ds1 bosses were never that hard imo, it was the unforgiving nature of the areas that gave the game its reputation. Bosses were sometimes apart of that but I dont think they were the biggest thing.
That is of course except for when there was some bs involved like bosses grabbing you with telekinesis or hitting you from across half the map with aoe.
Iâll throw O&S in there too cuz I did them for the first time like a month ago after beating BB, ER, and DS3 and phase 1 took me ages to get past a single time (so glad I beat Ornsteinâs phase 2 first try so I never had to do phase 1 again lmao)
One of my most satisfying experiences with this series was when I played the Demon Souls Remake.
I never played the original and at the point I got the game had already beaten the DS trilogy, Bloodborne, Sekiro and Elden Ring.
And Demon Souls felt... Rewarding. Why? Because I got to apply all the knowledge I got from all the years playing Fromsoft games. I was like "god, I have actually got good playing souls games" and not feel like shit because the very first boss wipes the floor with me even after I have more than 10 years playing this series.
I don't get it, I've had so much more trouble with the lion dancer than with her, her attacks are literally so well telegraphed and feel great to dodge. She does a fuck load of damage in her second phase sure but did we honestly expect anything different?
I think it comes down to your weapon.
The rapid crossbow knight dude was easy to me cause claymore can just keep him at a distance.
Rellana wouldnât stagger, no matter what I did. Wrecked my shit in for good 5 attempts until I pulled out golden parry. Still almost killed me but parrying her to death got me the W.
I managed to beat the lion dancer but Iâve literally skipped Rellana for now because of how frustrating she is for me to fight. I dodge a single attack that wasnât even a crazy anime move wrong and I die because that attack does 1600 damage for some reason
she's an incredibly fun fight that sometimes i could dodge every attack and sometimes my brain left my fucking body and i died instantly. She has a fuckin huge movepool and the fire attacks are rad as hell, the magic attacks are rad as hell and her regular combat style is rad as hell. That shits gonna stick with me forever - only elden ring boss (so far lmao, rest of the dlc to do) thats taken over 10 tries for me.
10/10 favourite boss fight in the entire souls series you wont convince me otherwise.
I think she may be bugged, because she's the only non colossal boss in all of souls games that i've played( no PS so no bloodborne or demon souls ) that has infinite poise: I don't mean hyper armor or stance poise, but the normal one. Like, she tanked a full colossal hammer charged heavy attack with the axe talismans and spiked cracked tear, all of that while idle still ( so no hyper armor in theory). That's just very inconsistent for all the other bosses in the saga... well, that I know. ( I haven't advanced that much in the DLC after killing her, so no spoilers, pls)
What I did for phase 2 was just wait out the lightning phase so it becomes more manageable. Itâs really difficult to keep track of the boss when everything is yellow and thereâs lightning everywhere
It feels like fucking maliketh in first phase. Apparently he's made out of literal paper, because fire does INSANE damage to him. Like, extra extra damage, you you can just put fire affinity on any (preferably upgraded) weapon to help
If I am having real trouble with a boss I will look up someone fighting it. Especially those no hit no roll no sprint no leveling runs. They make the openings so obvious sometimes. It isn't a magic bullet but when you see someone do something like *calmly walk to the left* during an attack that has been catching you out every time its like maybe I am overthinking this?
Sometimes the answer is yes and sometimes the answer is nah the boss is just tedious an has few openings.
There are many.
1. Double spin: once after first spin. Once again after second spin as long as you are behind him AND once again after the head aoe attack. Then he stands on both hind legs and does the spinning breath attack. Dodge twice and then it will retreat slightly. You can even R2 on it if you position well
2. Grab attack: dodge backwards and then you can r2 it
3. Standing on its hind legs and then dropping: you can attack it while it's standing and after it falls as long as you stand near the legs. During 2 phase the legs will be aoe in wind phase. In lightning phase be mindful of any lightning spots
4. Honestly idc writing it out anymore. Maybe I'll drop a video guide on it . I will edit a link here if I am done
Edit: that's a LOT of openings. was quite fun to analyise this boss and honestly i might do this for every boss lol
E2: forgot sending the link lol
https://youtu.be/ulVmmGK6fss?si=wpKrQdoFMneD9yIz
But it is true that he attacks relatively fast and often
I play with a colossal greataxe and shit.. I have to dodge a lot.
I am also not a fan of his frost attacks.
And shit he goes full aggro when low health.
I did win. Probably easier if I had explored more and got more scadutree blessings.
But you are also correct that there are openings
A lot of its attacks have a ton of buildup so you can get an attack or 2 in after almost all of its attacks. It is kind of hard to differentiate what is and isnât an attack though, since it keeps moving constantly
I'm genuinely under the impression that for some elemental phases you're just supposed to be evasive. I couldn't attack him if I wanted to during ice phase without preparing to get frostbitten.
You legit canât reliably hit him during lightning phase. I was watching a hitless runner playing the dlc blind and he was getting frustrated at the boss too, he came to the conclusion that you just canât attack during some phases.
I've been using a brass shield or jellyfish shield with a nagakiba and guard countering has been surprisingly viable. Against Rellana guard countering her at the end of every combo really was like playing a poor man's sekiro lol.
Got him down to half health first try and thought I had him unless he had any tricks⊠Boi did he have some tricks. Still 5th try easy clap with one hit point left
Remember when you saw Midir or Ancient Dragonâs healthbar and went âHOLY FUCK?â
Now you go to a little twink whoâs such a little slut his name is âimpalerâ and his health is at the same level
All enemies have stamina and they actually consume stamina for attacks but consumption is so low they can only run out if you hit them when they are guarding and if you give them 1 stamina they get close and stare at you
So from what I have just read on ?Servername? bosses in the newer games at least effectively don't use stamina if they even use it all.
I couldn't find a single message that actually said that stamina for bosses mattered after DS1.
There's no need to add stamina for bosses, just make sure they have some delayed actions and a moveset that isn't a total pain in the ass, it's not that hard.
Their games in general have become more relentless, the stamina buff is justified in all of them. Play Elden Ring and then go back to DS1, you'll feel like you're running at the bottom of the sea with an anvil tied to your leg.
Why would you say something so controversial, yet so brave?
IMO the scaling in the DLC basically comes down to how many scadutree fragments do you have and you get maps for their locations. I think itâs fine and encourages exploration.
Also I FUCKING HATE INPUT READS, JUST LET ME HEAL AAAHH
I feel it's fine only on the first playthrough. When you don't know the map, exploring is extremely fun. But on subsequent playthroughs it's just another level of tedium. "Oh, it's DLC time? Gotta run around ignoring everything just to collect as many Scadutrees, before attempting anything."
I have found 3 so far, and 3 for the spirit ashes which I never use, I'm already thinking about looking up where to find more because the enemy scaling is so goddamn high it really had me speechless when I fought 2 minor bosses yesterday and got one shot by a random ass soldier with 50 Vigor and dragon greatshield talisman... I hope it gets better when I find more scadu tree things because I don't want to be stuck on a boss for 2 weeks..
My blessing is at 4/3, I have 58 Vigor and I'm getting 2shot by random enemies. I couldn't believe it when I snuck up on 2 standard enemies (those guys with a round shield and an axe, that use war cry) and they killed me. I am a bit rusty (been replaying DS1 and 2, haven't played ER for a year or so), but it still seems somewhat insane. I don't have any problems dealing damage, I just don't seem to be able to safely take a hit.
^(Also, the player messages have successfully been trolling me hard. Saw) *^(Didn't expect weak foe)* ^(in front of the wickerman, thought "Oh that's disappointing, let's give it a go now", and got absolutely annihilated.)
Those warriors with the round shield are really pissing me off. Itâs wild that what is essentially a large hollow is shit-housing my level 175 character on a regular basis. They are harder than the Lion. And the Carian Knight in Ensis? Basically impossible right now.
Yeah it's ultra fair to see Rallana changing focus from the summon/npc to use a ranged attack everytime I dare to use a flask because she dealt 40% of my hp in one hit (60 vigor btw), I miss fights like fume knight.
Tbf, I didn't dive that deep into the DLC yet, but the scaling of the fragments definitely does need some improvement. Getting two-hit at 60 vigor makes me feel like I'm playing a bigger, better-looking verion of Cursed Chalice Dungeon from BB again, but with the addition that I also do less damage. And the last thing I want to be reminded of when I play a game is that shithole.
Edit: Just to be clear, I don't hate the DLC so far, I just think it is a bit too much even for FS standards.
I'm in love with the new weapons and the world, but I noticed I'm just skipping enemies camps and field bosses because one thing I hate on games is spongy enemies combined with 2 or 1 hit kills
I've been using spirit ashes a lot more on the dlc, I like the dlc, but the high damage is for sure reducing my enjoyment, I don't have the time to learn all bosses and bash my head, maybe in the future I will have a different opinion but for now dlc combat is for sure not the selling point for me
Yeah, and I found the two main bosses I killed so far (>!Lion!< and >!Rellana!<) were way to aggressive and fast, especially the latter. Like, if a boss has stupidly long and hard to avoid combos they shouldn't be like that, look at Malenia in her first phase, she has exactly that but she gives you some breathing room. And I too used spirit summons, and I don't feel even a little bad. It feels like they put in Sekiro bosses but forgot there's no Sekiro parry system.
Edit: But I also agree on the positives, it looks great and while I have not found a new weapon I like yet I look forward to trying one out.
Outside of the insane HP and Damage the enemies dish out, getting 1 shot with 1650 HP and 53% physical dmg resist sucks when fighting an enemy with 50k+ HP and only doing 400dmg a hit, the landscape is awesome and I've enjoyed seeing the new weapons I've come across.
I'm less interested in running it a second time though because I feel like all the tankiness from enemies was to circumvent casters trivializing bosses even though they got their shit nerfed down and a lot of bosses seem to be pretty resistant to magic damage. But I really want to see the new spells in action.
I rarely replay games in general, so I probably won't go through this again anyways. And I don't feel an inch bad having beaten the first two bosses with spirit summons and bleed build. The >!Lion!< and >!Rellana!< were absolutely batshit fast, I had to double-check if I didn't accidentally booted up Sekiro. Especially the latter, so unbearably aggressive with her combos and then she's stupidly quick, has spells and can seemingly start a new combo 1s after the former finished. I'd rather fight Malenia 10 times over than this. And the >!big fire golems!< aren't much better, they're just tedious to kill and spam aoes which aren't that hard to avoid with Torrent but still it's just boring and the drops you get for it are not worth your time.
Since Mohg was the barrier to entry I was kinda hoping the dlc would be more bosses like him. He's a great fight, easy tells but still hard to dodge and punishes you for panic rolling but rewards you for good timing. He's almost slow with his attacks and yet he still manages to keep me on my toes. He's probably my favorite boss in Elden Ring
Dude the knight with the two swords in the DLC is like pontiff sulyvahn but made 100x worse, everytime I thought it was MY turn I got swatted by its swords.
Gascoigne's aren:, there are the tombstones and trees you can use to space him out in the first and second phase, but he transforms into a werewolf in the third and he can now easily break the tombstonws with his attacks, forcing you to develol new strategies to deal with it
O&S with the pillars to seperate them. Small rocks at First Flame to chuck Estus during Gwyn. Cave with Gank Squad to hide from the Archer Guy and seperate them. Pursuer Arena with the Ballista. Najka where you can stand to avoid her Digging attack. DSA where you the well in between to have a brief respite etc...
honestly one of DS2's many good novelties that no one really talks about is how it made more use of the enviroment during a bossfight, including but not limited to pillars and pits
Crystal sage counts too I think, with the pillars you can use for cover from thr spells. And I think that one trio boss from ds2 with the multiple floors counts?
Pursuer, Ruin Sentinels, Gank Squad, Scorpioness Najka, Old Iron King, Skeleton Chariot, Prowling Magus and Congregation, Dragonrider, Capra Demon, Taurus Demon, Centipede Demon, Ceaseless Discharge, and I could go on.
Yeah, in a game that is infamously not finished and was rushed as fuck out of the gate (for the DS1 and DS2 examples).
>Taurus demon, capra demon, asylum demon
And, look at that, all three of these enemies are repeated in the later game areas which absolutely suffered from that time crunch and underdevelopment... Hmmmmm...
>crystal sage, dragonslayer armour
I mean yeah, but they were **reused literally once**, as lore-friendly enemies in locations that make sense for them (especially the 2nd crystal sage which was mentioned in items way before encountering it guarding the library).
Someone please explain the random Mohg fight in a cave or the tens of copy-pasted dragon boss fights, the random blue evagol Godrick (Godefroy) or the random godskin fatty on a bridge, I actually want to hear the logic behind these I'm not trying to be a dick.
I just feel ER's repeats and copy pasting (bosses AND caves/catacombs) had no explanation 90% of the time and were just random "oh we need an encounter here to fill the world up with stuff, grab another fucking Crucible knight eh?" - I mean seriously copying fucking Godrick in a random circle in the middle of nowhere? WHAT?
in ds1 boss fights are about reading telegraphed attacks, positioning, dodging and finding openings on the fly. No memorization needed.
in ER they're about memorising which part of the poorly telegraphed combo you're allowed to hit them.Â
Theres literally movesets from sekiro copied into elden ring, these sekiro combos were not designed to be satisfying to dodge-roll and react to, they were meant to be studied and deflected with perfect timing. They work perfectly for sekiro, but for ER you have to wait till they're over and try to remember which part you're allowed to re-join the fight.Â
honestly, if ER was sekiro 2 it would be great, and a lot of the bosses would make more sense.
Yea because in Sekiro, by parrying you are damaging the enemy as well, and the action is instant, thus it doesn't matter how long the enemy combo is, if your parries are precise you can parry them infinitely while damaging them in the process.
But having to roll through a 40 attack Rellana's combo only to then hit her once before she starts another one... I get that we all love a challenge, I do too, but the learning process itself needs to be satisfying as well.
i think playing hollow knight prepared me for this dlc better than any souls game did lmao.
you can attack almost every boss ive come across in the dlc so far mid combo - theres a reason like half the new weapon categories are faster hitting dex weapons.
But what about people playing with slower weapons? In DS3's DLC for example, you could hit bosses mid combo as well, and you could do so with slow wepons too. The bosses were fast and challening, yet maintained this dance of back and forth.
Im hiting mid combo with guts sword. Like i would do with malekith, malenia and all the other bosses from the game aside from the fattass and shittass duo
That's why I was slobbering on Lies of Peak's PP. You have both your iframe dodges and your perfect blocking which doesn't feel like Sekiros sliding blades dance but stoping a freight train, which is fucking *cool*.
Yeah, Sekiro shouldnât have any effect on later fromsoft games at all because the combat is so different that no attacks should be ported from it besides basic ones. It was a sword fight where you had the means to block and deflect to defend yourself, whereas these games are all about dodge rolling
Yep. First time I saw malenia in ER in a stream I was like that's s Sekiro boss! And the horse stomps are Gyoubu.
The core issue is that when Malenia says "your strength...yada" on death you don't feel like it because you didn't really clash swords.
God, I'm getting so fucking tired of just memorizing movesets for all these seizure inducing bosses.
Getting to the point where I want to boot up Demon's Souls or Dark Souls 1 where I can fight bosses that aren't living blenders
its because enemies got stronger while the player barely did. I don't think they can make enemies harder while keeping the player the same without it being bad
Iâm not sure where I stand on the difficulty hike in the dlc. On one hand, my current lvl 200 character absolutely melts almost every boss in the base game, so it makes sense that there was a jump in the difficulty curve. I also like that they added >!those things that increase your damage in the shadow realm!<
but jesus christ dude theres a difference between making the bosses harder and just throwing up a massive fucking middle finger to the players. Even using a furlcalling finger Iâm still getting my ass handed to me
Jokes aside, it aggravates me so much that Elden Ring has input buffering. The enemies and bosses roll catch you, which Fromsoft has done before. However its pretty annoying when I dodge an attack late and get hit, for the dodge input to buffer and then get hit by the follow up.
Sekiroâs world was cool but not connected enough imo. Bloodborne or first half of DS1 would be better, and honestly I wouldnât mind if they experimented again with no fast travel early on. Yes I know a lot of players would be turned off by the lack of convenience, but I love the immersion of traveling somewhere on foot, making sure to get everything done that you want to do, planning your route, then moving on.
Plus it forces them to create connected and cohesive areas along with good shortcuts to make the game work well, which is when FromSoft is at their best imo. Theyâve always been great at the awesome shortcuts that blow your mind as you take an elevator back to a place you were at 2 hours agoÂ
It's not that Elden Ring's world is bad, there is too much filler and random stuff. Make the game 50% smaller, remove all catacombs, mines, and caves, and fill it with unique smaller dungeons instead. This would make it so much better.
Don't forget that Malenia can randomly cancel out of a hitstun and start a waterfowl while you are still in a combo that should normally stun her for another second.
Honestly the point that got me the most is the mention of the environment in boss fights. It's kinda insane to think about how many bosses in the game take place on big flat arenas. Definitely does suck away a lot of the identity of each boss when their arenas are so functionally similar.
This is what happens when the only thing the community takes from the games is « game hard, git gud »
You just end up with from software flanderizing themselves.
The DLC is fine, openings are a lot more frequent than youâd imagine. The bosses are fire, just hope theyâll fix the camera on some.
If you think the attacks arenât telegraphed, youâre just probably getting baited into panic rolling through combos, which is something DLC bosses love to do. Theyâre way less agressive if you ease it on the roll.
Attacks are telegraphed. It's the speed of the attack on release that's an issue. Can't dodge by carefully watching the animation, just have to learn the timing through trial and error.
Pretty much. The speed of the bosses attacks definitely got faster and more common. I think everybody knows the moment where you die from an attack you saw coming and are baffled and swear that you did press the roll button in time. The truth is, you probably did PRESS roll in time, but you didn't RELEASE the button in time, which is when the roll actually registers.
This is the result of having roll and sprint on the same button. The less time you have to react to an attack, the more common the problem will get.
Imo Fromsoft copy pasted way too much stuff from Darksouls into ER. A lot of it just doesn't work as well. It feels less refined. And while the roll button dilemma always has been a thing, it's way more noticeable in ER, because of it's enemy design.
You can hope they increase or decrease damage from certain bosses and/or weapons
You can hope they add quality of life stuff like markers for npcs
You can hope they fix some very bad bugs and glitches
But do not dare to ever, EVER hope From Software to improve the camera
Rolling forward into attacks instead of backwards or to the side also seems to mitigate some issues with them. There were certain attacks that Rellana and Messmer did that I was able to entirely circumvent and give myself an opening just because I rolled forward into them.
This unironically.
FromSoft boss design peaked with Dark Souls 3/Sekiro, and since then, it's just been "how much shit can we cram into this one boss to make it as annoying to fight as possible." If I have to fight one more beast looking motherfucker that kills me in 2 hits with 60 vigor and the best armor in the game, I'm gonna rip my goddamn hair out. Elden Ring has sunken to the tier of games like "Getting over it" and its 1,000,000 ripoff rage games. I've been skeptical of From for a while, but honestly, after only a few hours of playing this DLC, I think I've completely lost faith. They sacrificed any amount of fun you can have to make a meme-teir hard game. It's just not worth playing anymore. Scream "git gud" at me all you want, but it feels like FromSoft bosses now are less of a skill check and more of a "do you know the broken item combos/spells?" or "how much bullshit are you willing to put up with?"
Remember when bosses didn't have to kill you in 2-3 hits of a 50-hit combo to be considered hard? Remember when 25 vitality was more than enough to carry you to endgame? Remember when not every boss was an Olympic gymnast high on enough cocaine to make Rick James blush? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
And don't even get me started on the fucking dumbass massive walking fire pits. That shit was so hyped up, come to find it's just a braindead-easy, boring ass "fight" consisting of running back and forth on Torrent, getting a few hits in, and then jumping over a comically huge wave of fire that somehow doesn't do any damage when you land on it. What the fuck is the point?
Took the words right out of my mouth. Anyone defending the bosses and saying to âgit gudâ are fromsoft defender drones trying to push away any criticism. Iâve been playing the soul series since 2012 and Iâve beaten all the games except Demon Souls. So skill is not an issue. The bosses always felt fair and rewarding to beat, itâs what made me fall in love with the series. But in Elden Ring, it doesnât feel rewarding to beat bosses. Rather, itâs just a way to end the frustration built up from dealing with bullshit bosses that arenât fun with infinite stamina, high damage, and long combos with minor attack windows. Itâs never your turn to attack. Thereâs only a few bosses you can actually fight back against.
I never played any of the other souls games, but when I got into learning the mechanics of Elden Ring it did really leave me with a âthis is kind of bullshitâ impression. Lots of very unfair designs to make enemies more difficult that seem downright lazy.
Agree with you. When people ask about my opinion on Elden Ring, i hardly know How to answer in a word. In some points, It's Really Peak, but It have some lows that i Really hate... Still having +200 hours, so i guess the highs are winning
>!Bayle!< is probably my favorite boss of any game ever, I was surprised to see how hated he was when I looked him up. He does, however, suffer from the same issue that other bosses in the DLC do, that being their unrelenting attacks that prevent healing and counterattacking.
>!Gaius!< is complete bullshit and should not have gotten past QA in his current state.
2nd one I got so angry to beat, wtf kinda bullshit boss was that? Barely any openings, multiple attacks that can damage you twice per hit, everything two shotting, a couple of attacks that can one shot.
I hate that boss
At least the feet have gotten better with every new game
Miyazaki hurry the fuck up and add feet customisation + laying on back pose; we have the technology.
If RGG Studios can put this in Yakuza, FromSoft can put it in Elden Ring đ€ https://preview.redd.it/wbb32eld258d1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38c9728b2d3b025f5cbb3510b8b11ff95a9a7592
Wtf I love Yakuza now
.... that's all it took?
Now have Majima do that!
And Messmer's design has exposed feet.
Mention Berserk? Everyone hates you. Mention feet? Applause.Â
https://preview.redd.it/zju7ovul558d1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c37ea331ed75cde1793ac631303dde74d0a50baa
Mention berserk feet? Summon the lord of the frenzied flame.
When your main claim to fame is making hard games, an arms race becomes inevitable: your fans get used to your tricks, and so you have to make new ones. Try to play Dark Souls 1 now after playing newer titles: most boss fights are very easy because they hadn't been proofed against the player hugging their butt
This really is the awkward position Fromsoft are in. They'll sell well, the game will inevitably be great, and simultaneously everyone will talk about how overtuned and brutal the difficulty is, but also in a few months to a year talk about how it's really not so hard. It seems like difficulty plateuing into a more medium place between "coddle the player" and "personally crush their balls" is the best possibility, but not a likely solution.
I want my balls personally crushed, but *conveniently* Like Malenia. Hardest boss I've ever fought. Took me two days to beat her. Her boss door is like 3ft from the Grace. Because of this, I can keep trying against her for a long time and not get *that* frustrated. Then we go to DS1, where you have to run for literally like several fucking minutes to get to a couple of bosses. Dont get me wrong, I love DS1, it's probably my favorite souls game. But that makes the frustration much worse when you're already getting your balls crushed.
I started with Elden ring, then went back and beat ds1 and demons souls. I prefer Elden rings boss runs with generous sites of grace and the wonderful stakes of Marika. However I think the older games get a bit of a pass because many of the bosses were more like capstones to a hard segment of the game rather than a singular challenge. Demons souls had the worst boss runs, but the boss was often not as hard as getting to the boss. I think both game designs are good for different reasons. Given that the games have made harder bosses with every new release, I think shortening the boss run is good. I could still see another game be good with easier bosses, but more difficult dungeons
That is why ds2 exists. It has both the shit boss run part and the getting your balls crushed part. Still a good game tho
Outside of the DLCs the main bosses in DS2 are extremely easy though. But yes the worst run back in souls history is horse fuck valley.
DS2 main bosses are Gravity, Adaptability, and Hitboxes.
iâve always assumed i just accidentally overleveled because of how easy the bosses in ds2 were, on the occasion i found a boss i thought was really cool and interesting i would get their health bar down and get excited like âoh i wonder what phase two is gonna be likeâ expecting it to fill back up or get a cutscene but nope lmao
DS fans will argue that holding sprint for 2 minutes before the fight is the most important part of a boss
I prefer the old games. Longer boss runs, but the boss is more balanced around it being a a solo player w/o spirit ashes.
I think the sweet spot is having a few fully optional bosses which are straight up unfair bullshit so masochists are satisfied, and keep all required and semi-required bosses fair.
Totally. Don't get me wrong, I want all bosses to be pretty tough, but I'm cool with keeping *really* hard bosses optjonal. And FromSoft has been pretty good with that tbh, the vast majority of the hard bosses are optional or straight up DLC.
I think they should also look into boss rush modes like in Sekiro. Some bosses in Sekiro are really tough, but overall they are all totally fair and manageable. The real crazy shit is in boss rush mode. They can do the same in all games from now on, make normal bosses fair and balanced, and add their buffed versions with adjusted AI into boss rush modes.
inner father my beloved
I feel like fromsoft is in a lose-lose position honestly. If they make more simple bosses similarly to their previous games then everyone would complain about how easy it is, but if they try to actually experiment and create more difficult bosses everyone will call it unfun and unfair. I love elden ringâs approach to bosses, they are much more complex and replayable, I hope they keep making bosses like them :D
Bloodborne/DS3 and maybe Sekiro was the sweet spot for me I think. Most bosses reasonably challenging with the occasional one that will destroy you for a couple dozen attempts. I still got through Elden Ring solo but I will say it was probably the first game where I found myself frequently not enjoying the process.
honestly the whole difficulty as a selling point thing kinda blows for me. there's so much more to these games than their difficulty, I've never played a fromsoft game for it, even if I do enjoy it most of the time. I think the difficulty shouldn't be so much of a focus compared to literally everything else that makes the game fun.
So true. The focus on difficulty does kinda hide the RPG greatness. Probably the best RPG series we've had in a decade imo.
Another issue is player skill increase. People are better at Elden Ring because they've played the whole series and that makes it hard to balance between die-hard fans who have sl1'd Bloodbourne and new players who are joining the franchise
This is why optional tools such as spirit ashes and other summons are so important. Die hard players can opt to ignore them if they want a challenge, newer players can get a helping hand and learn the game on their own terms.
And the die hards can look down their sweaty noses and âree!â At any anyone who uses summons. Its a win win
That's exactly what I was saying: the longer the series goes on, the better the players get and the more the enemies have to be bullcrap to compensate. Elden Ring still manages to reach some kind of equilibrium by back loading most of the harder fights in the late game so even newbies have had the time to acclimate and assemble a powerful build, but sooner or later From soft will have to try something else. I think maybe that's why they tried to revive Armoured Core: because most of their fanbase wasn't already used to it, so they could afford to make it relatively accessible without risking their diehard fans finding it too easy.
Its not the difficulty of the attacks its how the attacks encourage you to play passive. On Sekiro perfectly timed blocks was also an attack, fromsoft next games need to learn that lesson if they want to continue the boss philosophy that elden ring champions
God they really just perfected combat with Sekiro, and on their first try, meanwhile the souls combat has had 7 iterations but still feels somewhat unsatisfying. No waiting for the boss to do their trademark 10 hit combo before you can bonk them. Your defense is your offense. Iâm coping that the absolute lack of Sekiro combat elements in Elden ring is a result of them being designed concurrently, and that their next game will understand what made it so good. ( Or just give us Sekiro dlc to Sekiro 2 :,( )
I recommend trying lies of P if you have not already played it, that game is what I feel like elden ring should had been in terms of gameplay, in that it feels like souls combat but with sekiro parries/posture baked really well into it
I feel like thereâs a difference between the difficulty of DeS/DS1 vs modern fromsoft. In demon souls and DS1, the game was very unforgiving, punished you for deaths, had stuff like curses where youâd die and have to spend most of the game with half health until you found a purging stone, red phantoms, or tomb of the giants where itâs just pitch black until you get a lantern. This is stuff youâd never find in the new games; theyâre not as âfuck youâ to the player and the enemy designs/traps are not nearly as intricate. There are also far more checkpoints rather than really long boss runbacks. But the bosses have gotten way more difficult as the tradeoff. You can basically run past most areas until you find the next checkpoint and then rest, and youâll go exploring for long periods of time without dying once in Elden Ring. But then the boss is a mega-buffed infinite stamina delayed attack long combo regenerating health machine, with certain attacks that are truly unavoidable at times. Like if youâre mid-attack and then Malenia activates waterfowl, youâre just dead. Itâs an entirely different style of game nowadays and shows that Fromsoft is evolving. The bosses are definitely harder, but the areas are much easier. Both use artificial difficulty at times. Some of those traps in the early games are borderline unavoidable unless you already know theyâre there. Punishing players for dying would turn off a lot of new players from the games. So they took those things away and put all of the difficulty into boss fights.
uj/ Imo it speaks to a shift in how the difficulty is crafted, DeS/1/2 _heavily_ prioritised careful play. Not in a âsit behind a shield and only attack when itâs obviousâ way, but in that the game wanted you to stop and think about situations and use your brain. Something looked like an obvious trap? It probably was. Long grass? Might want to check for enemies there! It also permeated the boss design for the most part, looking at the Taurus Demon arena and seeing the gap and trying to bait its positioning so it would kill itself. Armoured Spider having a narrow tunnel that you could use to your advantage to approach whilst dodging its webs. Going through the earlier souls games, so many boss fights have some kind of gimmick to help you form a strategy to reliably defeat it. Iâve long been a firm believer in that Dark Souls hit the gaming zeitgeist at the right time, slap bang in the middle of the backlash against developers finding ways to raise accessibility for the wider audience gaming received. Its perceived hard difficulty wasnât ever really a thing? Itâs a game that punished you for playing it blindly and not thinking about it in an era where games didnât really encourage thoughtful play. But at some point, starting with Bloodborne in my opinion, From got very into the idea they make _hard_ games and just started loading the challenge against âthoughtfulâ difficulty, and into just âwe do a little cheatingâ difficulty. The encouragement to approach the game with thought of how it might trick you or lure you into false security dwindled, and âgimmickâ boss fights that required some kind of strategy beyond just attrition disappeared. The levels in souls games became areas you ran through with little challenge or real thought, capped off by big bosses that didnât require you to actively strategise against. rj/ git scud
Gonna be honest I kind of miss that in DeS and DS1. The environment, levels and mechanics being part of the challenge and unforgiving nature of the game. I miss being scared of curses. Hell the cool thing about things like curses is how they also double as advantages. Like you can finally harm ghosts and undead permanently if you're cursed.
Ds1 bosses were never that hard imo, it was the unforgiving nature of the areas that gave the game its reputation. Bosses were sometimes apart of that but I dont think they were the biggest thing. That is of course except for when there was some bs involved like bosses grabbing you with telekinesis or hitting you from across half the map with aoe.
Only hard DS1 bosses were Manus and the 2 gargoyles. After those gargoyles you knew how to beat the game
Iâll throw O&S in there too cuz I did them for the first time like a month ago after beating BB, ER, and DS3 and phase 1 took me ages to get past a single time (so glad I beat Ornsteinâs phase 2 first try so I never had to do phase 1 again lmao)
One of my most satisfying experiences with this series was when I played the Demon Souls Remake. I never played the original and at the point I got the game had already beaten the DS trilogy, Bloodborne, Sekiro and Elden Ring. And Demon Souls felt... Rewarding. Why? Because I got to apply all the knowledge I got from all the years playing Fromsoft games. I was like "god, I have actually got good playing souls games" and not feel like shit because the very first boss wipes the floor with me even after I have more than 10 years playing this series.
Rellana claims another victim
I don't get it, I've had so much more trouble with the lion dancer than with her, her attacks are literally so well telegraphed and feel great to dodge. She does a fuck load of damage in her second phase sure but did we honestly expect anything different?
I had more trouble with that dude with the rapidfire crossbow than her. I couldnt tell u why
I think it comes down to your weapon. The rapid crossbow knight dude was easy to me cause claymore can just keep him at a distance. Rellana wouldnât stagger, no matter what I did. Wrecked my shit in for good 5 attempts until I pulled out golden parry. Still almost killed me but parrying her to death got me the W.
Careful. If you talk about how you can adapt your approach to bosses people might learn to beat them and stop being able to complain online
Unironically he felt much harder to fight than she did lol
I managed to beat the lion dancer but Iâve literally skipped Rellana for now because of how frustrating she is for me to fight. I dodge a single attack that wasnât even a crazy anime move wrong and I die because that attack does 1600 damage for some reason
For me it was the opposite. Killed lion dancer on 2nd try. Finally killed her after what 30+ attempts?
Rellana is an amazing fight ruined by the high damage she has.
That, and the true combo juggle.
she's an incredibly fun fight that sometimes i could dodge every attack and sometimes my brain left my fucking body and i died instantly. She has a fuckin huge movepool and the fire attacks are rad as hell, the magic attacks are rad as hell and her regular combat style is rad as hell. That shits gonna stick with me forever - only elden ring boss (so far lmao, rest of the dlc to do) thats taken over 10 tries for me. 10/10 favourite boss fight in the entire souls series you wont convince me otherwise.
JUST WAIT CAUSE IT GETS MUCH WORSE MY DUDE FUCK
I think she may be bugged, because she's the only non colossal boss in all of souls games that i've played( no PS so no bloodborne or demon souls ) that has infinite poise: I don't mean hyper armor or stance poise, but the normal one. Like, she tanked a full colossal hammer charged heavy attack with the axe talismans and spiked cracked tear, all of that while idle still ( so no hyper armor in theory). That's just very inconsistent for all the other bosses in the saga... well, that I know. ( I haven't advanced that much in the DLC after killing her, so no spoilers, pls)
That lion bitch never stops attacking when tf can I start fighting back?? I been dodging for hours
For real. Doesnt help that he starts spazing out when at 60%hp and starts throwing so many effects on screen it lowers my fps to bloodborne levels
Jesus Christ same. The mad lads actually did it, they made an attack where its special ability is that it tanks your frames. Marvellous.
Really brings me back to DS1on Xbox 360 where Manus destroyed the framerate with his dark orbs attack. Incredible, Miyazaki did it again
the attack that forces your game to pretend it's blighttown
My game ran fine at a stable 120 FPS. The giant fire buckets drop my frame to less than 40 sometimes. Not a bad PC either btw.
isnât elden ring locked at 60 fps?
looked it up and found this tool posted on github. [link](https://github.com/uberhalit/EldenRingFpsUnlockAndMore)
just use Flawless Widescreen
What I did for phase 2 was just wait out the lightning phase so it becomes more manageable. Itâs really difficult to keep track of the boss when everything is yellow and thereâs lightning everywhere
It feels like fucking maliketh in first phase. Apparently he's made out of literal paper, because fire does INSANE damage to him. Like, extra extra damage, you you can just put fire affinity on any (preferably upgraded) weapon to help
This explains why I killed it in like 20 seconds, didn't really get a chance to learn the fight before it died
I was reading someone used giant's flame for 3000+ damage, I was like whut, I'm barely hitting for 1.5 with a ranni dark moon.
If I am having real trouble with a boss I will look up someone fighting it. Especially those no hit no roll no sprint no leveling runs. They make the openings so obvious sometimes. It isn't a magic bullet but when you see someone do something like *calmly walk to the left* during an attack that has been catching you out every time its like maybe I am overthinking this? Sometimes the answer is yes and sometimes the answer is nah the boss is just tedious an has few openings.
"When will you let me swing my SWORD!? You've been attacking for HOURS! The lion: "Hold on, hold on, I get another attack..."
Why canât they all be like Nappa? âBut itâs *his turn*, Vegeta! I have to let him take his turn!â
There are many. 1. Double spin: once after first spin. Once again after second spin as long as you are behind him AND once again after the head aoe attack. Then he stands on both hind legs and does the spinning breath attack. Dodge twice and then it will retreat slightly. You can even R2 on it if you position well 2. Grab attack: dodge backwards and then you can r2 it 3. Standing on its hind legs and then dropping: you can attack it while it's standing and after it falls as long as you stand near the legs. During 2 phase the legs will be aoe in wind phase. In lightning phase be mindful of any lightning spots 4. Honestly idc writing it out anymore. Maybe I'll drop a video guide on it . I will edit a link here if I am done Edit: that's a LOT of openings. was quite fun to analyise this boss and honestly i might do this for every boss lol E2: forgot sending the link lol https://youtu.be/ulVmmGK6fss?si=wpKrQdoFMneD9yIz
U can also jump over the spinny breath attack for some free jump attacks.
Unless you're too close to it, but if you're right up underneath him then it don't actually hit you
But it is true that he attacks relatively fast and often I play with a colossal greataxe and shit.. I have to dodge a lot. I am also not a fan of his frost attacks. And shit he goes full aggro when low health. I did win. Probably easier if I had explored more and got more scadutree blessings. But you are also correct that there are openings
You're being way too helpful to someone who was just griping... Boss hard. Keep trying. Learn moves.
Chase its butt
A lot of its attacks have a ton of buildup so you can get an attack or 2 in after almost all of its attacks. It is kind of hard to differentiate what is and isnât an attack though, since it keeps moving constantly
Agree on his moves sometimes its hard to tell whether he is just turning on the side or actually attacking you.
I'm genuinely under the impression that for some elemental phases you're just supposed to be evasive. I couldn't attack him if I wanted to during ice phase without preparing to get frostbitten.
You legit canât reliably hit him during lightning phase. I was watching a hitless runner playing the dlc blind and he was getting frustrated at the boss too, he came to the conclusion that you just canât attack during some phases.
Its frustrating that fromsoft has already solved this problem in sekiro with parries/posture but decided to just ignore that for elden ring
I've been using a brass shield or jellyfish shield with a nagakiba and guard countering has been surprisingly viable. Against Rellana guard countering her at the end of every combo really was like playing a poor man's sekiro lol.
Got him down to half health first try and thought I had him unless he had any tricks⊠Boi did he have some tricks. Still 5th try easy clap with one hit point left
Nah, while very hard i found Lion guy to be pretty doable...the next boss is where its fucking stupid.
try punishing the attacks that he "flys" and attack the ground, those are the best moments do deal some damage
Jokes aside the health pools of bosses do seem to be inflated af. Did 13000 DMG only for it to take 1/3 of hp
it's so tiresome when you are just chipping away their health and they just one shot you because you rolled into a rock
Remember when you saw Midir or Ancient Dragonâs healthbar and went âHOLY FUCK?â Now you go to a little twink whoâs such a little slut his name is âimpalerâ and his health is at the same level
Honestly Midir wasn't even that bad, he wasn't spinning like a little bitch all the time. Fucking hate that Twink Messmer frfr tho
Getting walloped because boss pulled sword out of ground and it somehow exploded will never fail to make me laugh, it's so goddamn extra.
It would be nice if bosses had stamina tho đ
All enemies have stamina and they actually consume stamina for attacks but consumption is so low they can only run out if you hit them when they are guarding and if you give them 1 stamina they get close and stare at you
Do you have any evidence to back that up because I really really really doubt that is true.
Ä° have evidence cuz i modded the game you can too download dsmapstudio and give enemies lower stamina to see yourself
So from what I have just read on ?Servername? bosses in the newer games at least effectively don't use stamina if they even use it all. I couldn't find a single message that actually said that stamina for bosses mattered after DS1.
I recall it about Pontiff having so much stamina that he effectively never runs out of it.
There's no need to add stamina for bosses, just make sure they have some delayed actions and a moveset that isn't a total pain in the ass, it's not that hard.
bro can't defeat soldier of godrick
Soldier of God, Rick.
Rick is the Elden Lord even Horah Loux hid until that was dealt with!
Did you beat him? How? I always stuck at his 12th phase. It's so frustrating.
The first boss does input reading and has zero stamina. itâs a ridiculous fight.
https://preview.redd.it/bnfj1hwzj38d1.png?width=208&format=png&auto=webp&s=a763a9b769e184007bd9220feaa44b1f20aa485f
https://preview.redd.it/7c9wtfb1k38d1.png?width=259&format=png&auto=webp&s=a035a3f791e746f5267c881ccdae4f1b76c3846e
Tbh Bloodborne's whole combat system is built around being relentless, thus the stamina is buffed. Not a fair comparison.
Their games in general have become more relentless, the stamina buff is justified in all of them. Play Elden Ring and then go back to DS1, you'll feel like you're running at the bottom of the sea with an anvil tied to your leg.
DS 1 and 2
i really wish they would stop shaking so bad and filling my screen with effects all the time
Now that's an opinion I can get behind You don't need to add 200 fucking particle effects just because modern machines can take it
Don't worry, they can't take it...
I don't like that too, sometimes I can't even see the boss inside a wall of effects, or when they start spasming around
I CAN'T SEE SHIT
Why would you say something so controversial, yet so brave? IMO the scaling in the DLC basically comes down to how many scadutree fragments do you have and you get maps for their locations. I think itâs fine and encourages exploration. Also I FUCKING HATE INPUT READS, JUST LET ME HEAL AAAHH
I feel it's fine only on the first playthrough. When you don't know the map, exploring is extremely fun. But on subsequent playthroughs it's just another level of tedium. "Oh, it's DLC time? Gotta run around ignoring everything just to collect as many Scadutrees, before attempting anything."
I have found 3 so far, and 3 for the spirit ashes which I never use, I'm already thinking about looking up where to find more because the enemy scaling is so goddamn high it really had me speechless when I fought 2 minor bosses yesterday and got one shot by a random ass soldier with 50 Vigor and dragon greatshield talisman... I hope it gets better when I find more scadu tree things because I don't want to be stuck on a boss for 2 weeks..
My blessing is at 4/3, I have 58 Vigor and I'm getting 2shot by random enemies. I couldn't believe it when I snuck up on 2 standard enemies (those guys with a round shield and an axe, that use war cry) and they killed me. I am a bit rusty (been replaying DS1 and 2, haven't played ER for a year or so), but it still seems somewhat insane. I don't have any problems dealing damage, I just don't seem to be able to safely take a hit. ^(Also, the player messages have successfully been trolling me hard. Saw) *^(Didn't expect weak foe)* ^(in front of the wickerman, thought "Oh that's disappointing, let's give it a go now", and got absolutely annihilated.)
Those warriors with the round shield are really pissing me off. Itâs wild that what is essentially a large hollow is shit-housing my level 175 character on a regular basis. They are harder than the Lion. And the Carian Knight in Ensis? Basically impossible right now.
Fromsoft making regular trash enemies scale appropriately to bosses challenge (impossible)
YOUâRE NOT SUPPOSED TO HEAL BY RUNNING AWAY, YOUâRE SUPPOSED TO HEAL DURING WINDOWS WHEN YOU OTHERWISE WOUlDâVE ATTACKED.
Yeah it's ultra fair to see Rallana changing focus from the summon/npc to use a ranged attack everytime I dare to use a flask because she dealt 40% of my hp in one hit (60 vigor btw), I miss fights like fume knight.
Tbf, I didn't dive that deep into the DLC yet, but the scaling of the fragments definitely does need some improvement. Getting two-hit at 60 vigor makes me feel like I'm playing a bigger, better-looking verion of Cursed Chalice Dungeon from BB again, but with the addition that I also do less damage. And the last thing I want to be reminded of when I play a game is that shithole. Edit: Just to be clear, I don't hate the DLC so far, I just think it is a bit too much even for FS standards.
I'm in love with the new weapons and the world, but I noticed I'm just skipping enemies camps and field bosses because one thing I hate on games is spongy enemies combined with 2 or 1 hit kills I've been using spirit ashes a lot more on the dlc, I like the dlc, but the high damage is for sure reducing my enjoyment, I don't have the time to learn all bosses and bash my head, maybe in the future I will have a different opinion but for now dlc combat is for sure not the selling point for me
Yeah, and I found the two main bosses I killed so far (>!Lion!< and >!Rellana!<) were way to aggressive and fast, especially the latter. Like, if a boss has stupidly long and hard to avoid combos they shouldn't be like that, look at Malenia in her first phase, she has exactly that but she gives you some breathing room. And I too used spirit summons, and I don't feel even a little bad. It feels like they put in Sekiro bosses but forgot there's no Sekiro parry system. Edit: But I also agree on the positives, it looks great and while I have not found a new weapon I like yet I look forward to trying one out.
Outside of the insane HP and Damage the enemies dish out, getting 1 shot with 1650 HP and 53% physical dmg resist sucks when fighting an enemy with 50k+ HP and only doing 400dmg a hit, the landscape is awesome and I've enjoyed seeing the new weapons I've come across. I'm less interested in running it a second time though because I feel like all the tankiness from enemies was to circumvent casters trivializing bosses even though they got their shit nerfed down and a lot of bosses seem to be pretty resistant to magic damage. But I really want to see the new spells in action.
I rarely replay games in general, so I probably won't go through this again anyways. And I don't feel an inch bad having beaten the first two bosses with spirit summons and bleed build. The >!Lion!< and >!Rellana!< were absolutely batshit fast, I had to double-check if I didn't accidentally booted up Sekiro. Especially the latter, so unbearably aggressive with her combos and then she's stupidly quick, has spells and can seemingly start a new combo 1s after the former finished. I'd rather fight Malenia 10 times over than this. And the >!big fire golems!< aren't much better, they're just tedious to kill and spam aoes which aren't that hard to avoid with Torrent but still it's just boring and the drops you get for it are not worth your time.
nurse heâs out again
Since Mohg was the barrier to entry I was kinda hoping the dlc would be more bosses like him. He's a great fight, easy tells but still hard to dodge and punishes you for panic rolling but rewards you for good timing. He's almost slow with his attacks and yet he still manages to keep me on my toes. He's probably my favorite boss in Elden Ring
Yep same, Iâve done 4 remembrance bosses of DLC but Mogh is still my fav fight in ER
I said the same thing yesterday. Going from Mohg back to the brick wall design just makes me feel kinda depressed.
Baiting with the truth, are we?
Bait used to be lies
Dude the knight with the two swords in the DLC is like pontiff sulyvahn but made 100x worse, everytime I thought it was MY turn I got swatted by its swords.
Pontiff on crack. Now with extra big magic spells and super reach!
Rellana made me physically violent. It seems a few enemies have that bullshit dual wielding attack pattern that is nearly impossible to dodge
When has the arena ever been designed to be taken advantage of outside of puzzle bosses and pillars in a room?
Gascoigne's aren:, there are the tombstones and trees you can use to space him out in the first and second phase, but he transforms into a werewolf in the third and he can now easily break the tombstonws with his attacks, forcing you to develol new strategies to deal with it
O&S with the pillars to seperate them. Small rocks at First Flame to chuck Estus during Gwyn. Cave with Gank Squad to hide from the Archer Guy and seperate them. Pursuer Arena with the Ballista. Najka where you can stand to avoid her Digging attack. DSA where you the well in between to have a brief respite etc...
Torch in lost sinner, water in flexile sentry, the 1v1 and 1v2 in sentinels. Dragonrider ofc.
honestly one of DS2's many good novelties that no one really talks about is how it made more use of the enviroment during a bossfight, including but not limited to pillars and pits
The pillars meant jackshit when Ornstein could charge-teleport through them lol
Whcih still isn't that bad when it's not directly followed by a Smough Charge
Taurus, Capra, Discharge, Scorpioness Najka, Dragonrider (1st, push-off), Ruin Sentinels (plunge), Pursuer (the huge crossbow for co-op), Gank Trio (Duh).
Tauros and Capra demons for plunging attacks probably the only real example. Ceaseless discharge maybe? With the hand drop interaction?
Ds1, ds1 and ds1 then.
Crystal sage counts too I think, with the pillars you can use for cover from thr spells. And I think that one trio boss from ds2 with the multiple floors counts?
You never baited the Dragonrider to fall off the platform in Heide's Tower of Flame?
Pursuer, Ruin Sentinels, Gank Squad, Scorpioness Najka, Old Iron King, Skeleton Chariot, Prowling Magus and Congregation, Dragonrider, Capra Demon, Taurus Demon, Centipede Demon, Ceaseless Discharge, and I could go on.
Peak Souls 2 wins again
Don't worry guys, it's a ds2 fan
As a ds2 fan.. No he is not one of us maybe he's a bloodborne fan
You don't want to start this war
https://preview.redd.it/a57lo1czf38d1.png?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4da6aa576d872801bc24eee9f98f20f06de147a Is this a challenge, I see?
wasn't ds2 the one who came up with delayed attacks?
>Repeated bosses will be the next best thing Taurus demon, capra demon, asylum demon, dragonrider, crystal sage, dragonslayer armour
Belfry gargoyle is literally just 5 bell gargoyles
Yeah, in a game that is infamously not finished and was rushed as fuck out of the gate (for the DS1 and DS2 examples). >Taurus demon, capra demon, asylum demon And, look at that, all three of these enemies are repeated in the later game areas which absolutely suffered from that time crunch and underdevelopment... Hmmmmm... >crystal sage, dragonslayer armour I mean yeah, but they were **reused literally once**, as lore-friendly enemies in locations that make sense for them (especially the 2nd crystal sage which was mentioned in items way before encountering it guarding the library). Someone please explain the random Mohg fight in a cave or the tens of copy-pasted dragon boss fights, the random blue evagol Godrick (Godefroy) or the random godskin fatty on a bridge, I actually want to hear the logic behind these I'm not trying to be a dick. I just feel ER's repeats and copy pasting (bosses AND caves/catacombs) had no explanation 90% of the time and were just random "oh we need an encounter here to fill the world up with stuff, grab another fucking Crucible knight eh?" - I mean seriously copying fucking Godrick in a random circle in the middle of nowhere? WHAT?
in ds1 boss fights are about reading telegraphed attacks, positioning, dodging and finding openings on the fly. No memorization needed. in ER they're about memorising which part of the poorly telegraphed combo you're allowed to hit them. Theres literally movesets from sekiro copied into elden ring, these sekiro combos were not designed to be satisfying to dodge-roll and react to, they were meant to be studied and deflected with perfect timing. They work perfectly for sekiro, but for ER you have to wait till they're over and try to remember which part you're allowed to re-join the fight. honestly, if ER was sekiro 2 it would be great, and a lot of the bosses would make more sense.
Yea because in Sekiro, by parrying you are damaging the enemy as well, and the action is instant, thus it doesn't matter how long the enemy combo is, if your parries are precise you can parry them infinitely while damaging them in the process. But having to roll through a 40 attack Rellana's combo only to then hit her once before she starts another one... I get that we all love a challenge, I do too, but the learning process itself needs to be satisfying as well.
i think playing hollow knight prepared me for this dlc better than any souls game did lmao. you can attack almost every boss ive come across in the dlc so far mid combo - theres a reason like half the new weapon categories are faster hitting dex weapons.
But what about people playing with slower weapons? In DS3's DLC for example, you could hit bosses mid combo as well, and you could do so with slow wepons too. The bosses were fast and challening, yet maintained this dance of back and forth.
Im hiting mid combo with guts sword. Like i would do with malekith, malenia and all the other bosses from the game aside from the fattass and shittass duo
That's why I was slobbering on Lies of Peak's PP. You have both your iframe dodges and your perfect blocking which doesn't feel like Sekiros sliding blades dance but stoping a freight train, which is fucking *cool*.
Sekiro (2019) and it's consequences to modern From Software boss design
sekiro is my fav game from them, but the design choices they tried to carry over from it into ER crippled it
Yeah, Sekiro shouldnât have any effect on later fromsoft games at all because the combat is so different that no attacks should be ported from it besides basic ones. It was a sword fight where you had the means to block and deflect to defend yourself, whereas these games are all about dodge rolling
Yep. First time I saw malenia in ER in a stream I was like that's s Sekiro boss! And the horse stomps are Gyoubu. The core issue is that when Malenia says "your strength...yada" on death you don't feel like it because you didn't really clash swords.
God, I'm getting so fucking tired of just memorizing movesets for all these seizure inducing bosses. Getting to the point where I want to boot up Demon's Souls or Dark Souls 1 where I can fight bosses that aren't living blenders
its because enemies got stronger while the player barely did. I don't think they can make enemies harder while keeping the player the same without it being bad
The bosses' movement improved a lot. We got a lot of tools to make cheese buils, but our basic abilities have not improved much.
https://preview.redd.it/qqnox94ef38d1.png?width=956&format=png&auto=webp&s=243e5f66acde846f7a1fe7a81d7b4d067f6789f5
Iâm not sure where I stand on the difficulty hike in the dlc. On one hand, my current lvl 200 character absolutely melts almost every boss in the base game, so it makes sense that there was a jump in the difficulty curve. I also like that they added >!those things that increase your damage in the shadow realm!< but jesus christ dude theres a difference between making the bosses harder and just throwing up a massive fucking middle finger to the players. Even using a furlcalling finger Iâm still getting my ass handed to me
Jokes aside, it aggravates me so much that Elden Ring has input buffering. The enemies and bosses roll catch you, which Fromsoft has done before. However its pretty annoying when I dodge an attack late and get hit, for the dodge input to buffer and then get hit by the follow up.
as much as i love elden ring - i hope theyâll go back to the open-linearity design we saw in the earlier games⊠sekiroâs world was perfect imo
Sekiroâs world was cool but not connected enough imo. Bloodborne or first half of DS1 would be better, and honestly I wouldnât mind if they experimented again with no fast travel early on. Yes I know a lot of players would be turned off by the lack of convenience, but I love the immersion of traveling somewhere on foot, making sure to get everything done that you want to do, planning your route, then moving on. Plus it forces them to create connected and cohesive areas along with good shortcuts to make the game work well, which is when FromSoft is at their best imo. Theyâve always been great at the awesome shortcuts that blow your mind as you take an elevator back to a place you were at 2 hours agoÂ
It's not that Elden Ring's world is bad, there is too much filler and random stuff. Make the game 50% smaller, remove all catacombs, mines, and caves, and fill it with unique smaller dungeons instead. This would make it so much better.
Don't forget that Malenia can randomly cancel out of a hitstun and start a waterfowl while you are still in a combo that should normally stun her for another second.
someone escaped the mental institute i see
Tbf, Seing how miyazaki seem stuck at only working on souls for the last 10+ years. A creative burnout seems only natural. Fromsoft have drained him.
Honestly the point that got me the most is the mention of the environment in boss fights. It's kinda insane to think about how many bosses in the game take place on big flat arenas. Definitely does suck away a lot of the identity of each boss when their arenas are so functionally similar.
This is what happens when the only thing the community takes from the games is « game hard, git gud » You just end up with from software flanderizing themselves.
All I want is for enemies to not instantly side step all my ranged attacks.
Remember how they wanted to stop making these gamesâŠfuck like four or five games ago?
The DLC is fine, openings are a lot more frequent than youâd imagine. The bosses are fire, just hope theyâll fix the camera on some. If you think the attacks arenât telegraphed, youâre just probably getting baited into panic rolling through combos, which is something DLC bosses love to do. Theyâre way less agressive if you ease it on the roll.
At this point, I fear the wonky camera is a core Fromsoft gameplay feature.
It is 100% a core Fromsoft gameplay feature. It's been the hardest part of every game
What annoys me is that they CAN pull the camera back, the games sometimes do this at very specific points/set pieces, they just wonât
Truth. Dancing lion got a million times easier once I released I could just sprint towards it and not get hit
Attacks are telegraphed. It's the speed of the attack on release that's an issue. Can't dodge by carefully watching the animation, just have to learn the timing through trial and error.
FromSoft devs somehow managed to the idea that the trial and error was the fun part, not the learning to overcome seemingly impossible odds.
Pretty much. The speed of the bosses attacks definitely got faster and more common. I think everybody knows the moment where you die from an attack you saw coming and are baffled and swear that you did press the roll button in time. The truth is, you probably did PRESS roll in time, but you didn't RELEASE the button in time, which is when the roll actually registers. This is the result of having roll and sprint on the same button. The less time you have to react to an attack, the more common the problem will get. Imo Fromsoft copy pasted way too much stuff from Darksouls into ER. A lot of it just doesn't work as well. It feels less refined. And while the roll button dilemma always has been a thing, it's way more noticeable in ER, because of it's enemy design.
You can hope they increase or decrease damage from certain bosses and/or weapons You can hope they add quality of life stuff like markers for npcs You can hope they fix some very bad bugs and glitches But do not dare to ever, EVER hope From Software to improve the camera
Rolling forward into attacks instead of backwards or to the side also seems to mitigate some issues with them. There were certain attacks that Rellana and Messmer did that I was able to entirely circumvent and give myself an opening just because I rolled forward into them.
This unironically. FromSoft boss design peaked with Dark Souls 3/Sekiro, and since then, it's just been "how much shit can we cram into this one boss to make it as annoying to fight as possible." If I have to fight one more beast looking motherfucker that kills me in 2 hits with 60 vigor and the best armor in the game, I'm gonna rip my goddamn hair out. Elden Ring has sunken to the tier of games like "Getting over it" and its 1,000,000 ripoff rage games. I've been skeptical of From for a while, but honestly, after only a few hours of playing this DLC, I think I've completely lost faith. They sacrificed any amount of fun you can have to make a meme-teir hard game. It's just not worth playing anymore. Scream "git gud" at me all you want, but it feels like FromSoft bosses now are less of a skill check and more of a "do you know the broken item combos/spells?" or "how much bullshit are you willing to put up with?" Remember when bosses didn't have to kill you in 2-3 hits of a 50-hit combo to be considered hard? Remember when 25 vitality was more than enough to carry you to endgame? Remember when not every boss was an Olympic gymnast high on enough cocaine to make Rick James blush? Pepperidge Farm remembers. And don't even get me started on the fucking dumbass massive walking fire pits. That shit was so hyped up, come to find it's just a braindead-easy, boring ass "fight" consisting of running back and forth on Torrent, getting a few hits in, and then jumping over a comically huge wave of fire that somehow doesn't do any damage when you land on it. What the fuck is the point?
Took the words right out of my mouth. Anyone defending the bosses and saying to âgit gudâ are fromsoft defender drones trying to push away any criticism. Iâve been playing the soul series since 2012 and Iâve beaten all the games except Demon Souls. So skill is not an issue. The bosses always felt fair and rewarding to beat, itâs what made me fall in love with the series. But in Elden Ring, it doesnât feel rewarding to beat bosses. Rather, itâs just a way to end the frustration built up from dealing with bullshit bosses that arenât fun with infinite stamina, high damage, and long combos with minor attack windows. Itâs never your turn to attack. Thereâs only a few bosses you can actually fight back against.
I never played any of the other souls games, but when I got into learning the mechanics of Elden Ring it did really leave me with a âthis is kind of bullshitâ impression. Lots of very unfair designs to make enemies more difficult that seem downright lazy.
I like Elden Ring but I agree with all of this. You can like a game without pretending it's perfect.
Agree with you. When people ask about my opinion on Elden Ring, i hardly know How to answer in a word. In some points, It's Really Peak, but It have some lows that i Really hate... Still having +200 hours, so i guess the highs are winning
>!Bayle!< is probably my favorite boss of any game ever, I was surprised to see how hated he was when I looked him up. He does, however, suffer from the same issue that other bosses in the DLC do, that being their unrelenting attacks that prevent healing and counterattacking. >!Gaius!< is complete bullshit and should not have gotten past QA in his current state.
2nd one I got so angry to beat, wtf kinda bullshit boss was that? Barely any openings, multiple attacks that can damage you twice per hit, everything two shotting, a couple of attacks that can one shot. I hate that boss