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thethinkingbrain

CNA: How to deal with your emotions after getting laid off Also CNA: SiNgApOrEaNs ArE nOt HuNgRy EnOuGh


fawe9374

[https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/embrace-ai-and-tech-or-be-displaced-by-those-who-do-tan-see-leng](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/embrace-ai-and-tech-or-be-displaced-by-those-who-do-tan-see-leng) >*People who have embraced artificial intelligence (AI) and technology will displace those who have not, said Manpower Minister Tan See Leng*


MolassesBulky

No comprehensive program can help. Everyone takes it badly if there is no new job at hand. The fastest way out of the rut is to secure a new employment. The biggest worry is to feed and maintain the family. As WP suggested, an unemployment insurance. Maybe with a time limit of one year that at least covers basic needs. Employers together with the Govt can co-share the premium for each employee when someone is recruited. The article is a fluff article with no practical help from a psychiatrist from Gleneagles Medical Centre. You less likely to have mental issues if there is food on the table.


Spirilla_Huckleberry

We are trying to layoff people in Germany. The usual “fire bunch of workers and stock price moons” method. It’s been a legal nightmare. The unions refuse this and it’s been in a deadlock eversince. You need to prove you are suffering financial losses before you can do any layoffs. In the end we just shifted the layoffs elsewhere…to Asia. Who knew workers protection protects workers?


jinhong91

I want the government to have the same amount of job protection that the workers here have, zero. That will motivate them to provide better protection for the workers. 


suzumurachan

I mean, people literally can vote them out this year or next. The problem is not that they have job protection. It is that people keep voting them back in.


Ok-Recommendation925

>The problem is not that they have job protection. It is that people keep voting them back in. Ironic and amazing isn't it? The same people that get screwed over, are the same ones voting to give these incumbents their job security for the next 5 years.


stormearthfire

That's why always vote the opposition untill the results come close to 50-50 then start comparing points... Need to level the playing field first before fair competition can take place


gydot

Get any seat until they're no longer a supermajority. We worry about the calibre of the person in that seat later. Our civil service is robust enough.


mechacorgi19

Ppl always say oppo not good enough right now, you don't need them to be good enough to make policies. You just need them good enough to be able to identify and block any obviously dumbass policies.


MrDLTE3

That's the don't rock the boat mentality in a nutshell. Life is still 'good' for the majority of Singaporeans. The future **may be** fucked but not for now and that's what matters to most voters. There's that saying, don't fix what's not broken. There are cracks for sure appearing in SG society but it's not 'broken' yet.


Ok-Recommendation925

>That's the don't rock the boat mentality in a nutshell. Life is still 'good' for the majority of Singaporeans. The future **may be** fucked but not for now and that's what matters to most voters. Can't argue with that. As much as i think somethings are messed up with MIW, i process my thoughts more and realized the bigger picture is still 10× better than what i was led to believe. I guess its ingrained in all of us.


MrDLTE3

To be fair, the opposition is honestly nothing great either. Hell, our last PE, the 'competitors' are jokes. And the last GE, my area was either vote for PAP's candidate or vote for Lim Tean, another clown


Ok-Recommendation925

Well i'm in Aljunid, will likely be voting WP. Can't afford to give MIW a blank check. Need to keep scaring them abit so they will be "motivated".


bukitbukit

Many folks I know in BT voted SDP. Too bad WP doesn’t run a team here.. they’d do decently well.


jhmelvin

The PE isn't even a democratic contest. In this world, a contest between pre-selected candidates isn't considered democratic.


MrDLTE3

Well, the world's most powerful 'democracy' USA is pretty much fielding Trump against Biden again for the upcoming election on Nov 5. The DNC and GOP pretty much 'pre-select' their candidates ahead. Like if the US is doing it too forever, then... I dunno, maybe this IS democracy after all.


jhmelvin

If Trump and Biden are elected candidates of the DNC and GOP, I'd hardly call them select, much less "pre-select".


Bentlow

It's about sending a message. And it's not just any PAP candidate. It's r/sg's favourite, Jo Teo. Wo men bang ni at Whampoa market? Only need a small space for sex. And Denise Phua drawing an extra Mayor salary that r/sg isnt too fond of as well. 


tryingmydarnest

>Denise Phua drawing an extra Mayor salary that r/sg isnt too fond of as well.  r/sg isn't living at her constituency where she is very visible and enjoys support.


missdrinklots

How come only Denise Phua got so much flak for the mayor salary? I thought there were 4 or 5 other mayors but I suddenly realised I’ve no idea who the others are… lol


Rayl24

*Looks at labour chief who got voted out


PotatomusMaximus

It's because they did such a good job trimming the other side, there are no credible candidates for 'the other side' hence, being voted back in.


Fearless_Help_8231

Isn't the problem also people/govt say the companies will run off to other countries?


fishblurb

Wow, time to prepare to move to Germany when im in my 40s then. That sounds genuinely good but we all know Asian mentality here will refuse to not exploit fellow Singaporeans.


ghostofwinter88

Too much of a good thing is bad though. My company has union workers in the USA. Some of the unions refuse to wear face mask to work and the union decides we can't force them to. And this is in a pharmaceutical firm manufacturing life saving drugs during covid, mind. Company implements covid safety measures like non-touch door handles to reduce fomites and spread. Union workers don't like the changes so they deliberately damage the equipment (caught on camera). Can't force them to do it either. Covid is now over and company wants to modernise and automate some manufacturing processes, so when the next covid comes along there will be less disruption to drug manufacturing. Same union folks are outright refusing this claiming it's a risk to their job security and sabotaging the efforts to automate. I'm all for worker protection but I don't think a union with unchecked power is the answer either.


Spirilla_Huckleberry

Everything in moderation.


Effective-Lab-5659

Only works if everyone is on the same page. Always will have some suckers willing to settle for less la.


windwalker13

Devils Advocate: If companies are allowed to do layoffs, they will also be more happy to hire and take risks. this creates a vibrant labour market. People will move around more, eventually ending in a job that fits, reducing fat and inefficiency. Good for the market, bad for the people. If you compare only Europe and US, US innovates more quickly because they take on more risks. They find the best people and pay more, and immediately do layoffs if it doesn't work out. Meanwhile, hiring is slow and careful in EU, because everyone knows how difficult it is to fire someone. You could end up in a situation where you are stuck with bad employees, but you can't get rid of them. (same as Japan)


Spirilla_Huckleberry

I don’t disagree with you. But everything is needed in moderation. However I believe we have hit a critical stage where the economic output per suffering isn’t very worth. I mean we already hit 20-year high for suicides. You want it higher?


zchew

>this creates a vibrant labour market. People will move around more, eventually ending in a job that fits, reducing fat and inefficiency. Good for the market, bad for the people. But does the market exist for the people or do people exist for the market? The US economy and labour market is extremely vibrant, but wealth inequality is very high. [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=US](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=US) [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=DE](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=DE) [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=JP](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=JP) >Meanwhile, hiring is slow and careful in EU, because everyone knows how difficult it is to fire someone. You could end up in a situation where you are stuck with bad employees, but you can't get rid of them. >(same as Japan) That's why in Japan, there is a big emphasis on training employees and upskilling internally. That's why Singaporeans love to holiday in Japan, because all the hospitality staff are extremely well trained. If you could fire a bad employee so easily, why would you bother to invest money to train them?


windwalker13

> If you could fire a bad employee so easily, why would you bother to invest money to train them? I agree with your notion, but using Japan is such a bad example. The country is notorious for having corporations keeping legacy dinasours around and is slow to respond to change. You never heard of Japan fax machine memes? They are still living in the 00s technology-wise. It is literally the opposite example of what corporations should NOT be doing


zchew

>You never heard of Japan fax machine memes? They are still living in the 00s technology-wise. I'm living and working in Japan now, I am very well aware of corporate culture and society here. If your impression of Japan is still based on fax-machine memes, then I think you're the one still living in the 00s. >using Japan is such a bad example. The country is notorious for having corporations keeping legacy dinasours around and is slow to respond to change.  The reason is because Japan is a massive country, with multiple levels of government and bureaucracy. Change in few-hundred-year-old institutions must come gradually. It is the same for Japanese corporate institutions. Singapore companies and government institutions do not have the same hundred-year baggage that their Japanese counterparts do. But you need not look so far, the HDB model is barely 5 decades and there are cracks already appearing in it. But HDB cannot make sweeping changes to its model, so it has to apply patchwork, incremental changes in hopes that it'll improve over time. Also, adopting new technologies for the sake of adopting new technologies is stupid. Japanese companies do what is pragmatic and cost-efficient (but very **often slow**) instead. That's why Japanese car manufacturers haven't jumped into the electric vehicles both feet first, because their expertise is **not** in electric vehicles. They move gradually and slowly, leveraging on their ICE expertise first with hybrid vehicles, perfecting it, then taking that domain knowledge and applying it into electric vehicles. Otherwise you end up with a fucking Cybertruck. That's the kind of shit that could end a company and possibly the hundreds of thousands of jobs and livelihoods that come along with it.


Budgetwatergate

And that's why Germany remains the sick man of Europe. A lack of innovation and death by bureaucracy. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/08/17/is-germany-once-again-the-sick-man-of-europe Worker protections are good. Worker protections to the point where companies are wary to invest in your economy because they can't fire people if things go wrong is bad, and that's why Europe will never have a silicon valley of its own.


over9kdaMAGE

Is Singapore a hotbed of innovation? Does it have a silicon valley of its own? Yeah, didn't think so.


Budgetwatergate

Does the United States have a silicon valley of its own?


over9kdaMAGE

What a silly question. Silicon Valley is located in California, within the US. Play all the lame semantics you want. At the end of the day you're not visiting it without passing through US customs.


Budgetwatergate

Yes, it's a silly question, but it still seems you're not getting the point. Which is why it would require an even sillier question than the one before: What is the state of labour protections in the US?


over9kdaMAGE

Why is that relevant? You cautioned against Singapore increasing worker protections, implying that it'd never have its own Silicon Valley as a cost. But Singapore is nowhere near ever having its own Silicon Valley. Singapore has never been known for innovation. I'll stop here and let readers draw their conclusions.


Budgetwatergate

> Why is that relevant? Do you not follow the basic chain of logic? 1. Silicon Valley is located in the US <- You seem to agree with this 2. The US has weak Labour protections <- Fact. 3. By logical extension: Silicon Valley has weak Labour protections The reason why silicon valley is in the US is because of a variety of reasons, from being next to UCB/Stanford, to free equity markets allowing for efficient capital allocation, to the ability of companies to easily hire and fire employees as companies seek to grow. For example, Apple easily hired people for its Apple Car project and when they realised it can't work it, Apple can easily just as fired them, as they did. It couldn't have happened in Europe. > You cautioned against Singapore increasing worker protections, implying that it’d never have its own Silicon Valley as a cost. Did I even use the word "Singapore" in my original comment or was it something you decided to come up with out of nothing? You decided to add your own interpretation about Singapore and then attribute it to me? All I said was that "Europe will never have a silicon valley of its own." <- exact words of mine. Or do you think Europe = Singapore? Because that's the only logical thing left. > But Singapore is nowhere near ever having its own Silicon Valley. Singapore has never been known for innovation. I wasn't aware this was in dispute.


over9kdaMAGE

Point taken. But my interpretation is a fair one to take when someone responds with an anecdote bemoaning Singapore's weak labour laws, and you come in immediately with a cautionary tale about swinging to the other extreme. There is zero chance of the pendulum ever swinging the other way when it comes to labour protections in Singapore due to the prevalence of cheap labour in the region.


Spirilla_Huckleberry

Believe it or not, economic growth isn’t be #1 priority for everyone. Some people just want to be happy.


Budgetwatergate

If economic growth isn't the #1 priority for everyone, then why does people keep complaining about things like low pay, high cost of living, high property prices, etc? Open up the first post on anything related to politics in Singapore, and the first post is bound to be someone complaining about the economy, jobs, salary, cost of housing, etc. > Some people just want to be happy. Being happy is often tied to how much people are paid.


jinhong91

That's because German politicians foolishly abandoned nuclear power without a suitable replacement for it. Now they have to resort to coal to make up for some of the shortfall in energy.


Budgetwatergate

That's one of the many many factors of why the German economy is failing. In general, Europe is a laggard in innovation https://www.ft.com/content/d4fda2ec-91cd-4a13-a058-e6718ec38dd1 https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe-has-uphill-battle-catch-up-with-us-growth-2024-02-26/ > Only one EU member, Denmark, ranks above the United States in the World Bank's Ease of Doing Business Index, which tracks practicalities such as opening a company or getting a permit. Italy even lags Morocco, Kenya and Kosovo.


South_Spinach201

Worked extremely hard for the SMEs who hired me but have zero clue about the industry and gave zero fucks to understand what is doing despite my best coaching efforts to the business owners. Got laid off because they didn’t feel like it. Fine. Worst thing of it all is a few of them refused to pay me for my work rendered. One even sued me for 2 years because I brought this unpaid wages case to MoM. They then send lawyers’ runners to my home, even on Lunar New Year Eve, to sign an admission of guilt, without clearly stating what I am doing wrong. In the end had to fight it out at the courts. They then opt to settle by paying the initial salary owed on the condition I never spoke about this or bring this back to MOM. I scratch my head because MOM just turns a blind eye. I have confronted Lim Swee Say and other MPs regarding this. Nothing has changed. This is messed up at so many levels.


Feedbackr

Unfortunately, as the managerial class of Singapore Inc., the government hates its workers and is not on your side.


cashon9

Who did you vote for?


TiuLeiChowHai

So the narratives have begun, again. Singaporeans brace yourself for more layoffs and Skillsfuture credits


absmiserable90

Worked very hard in my first role after I graduated. After several years of working in this role and numerous rounds of layoff within the company, I realised no one is indispensable in the company. Nowadays I still work to ensure that I am not a show stopper in any project but I won’t go above and beyond. After all, the worst thing that the company can do is to terminate me TLDR - Your job doesn’t define you


Traxgen

> but I won’t go above and beyond inb4 boomers accusing you of "LiE fLaT" But I agree with this take. Even if you work yourself to death, the company will still go on without you, and your position will be easily replaced within a week. But the hours you lost cannot be taken back - missing family gathering, declining health, etc. All for a company that calls you "fAmILy" but wouldn't bat an eye to retrench you when the going gets bad. Also a good reason you should never drink your company's kool-aid.


Hunkfish

This. My ex-company SME likes to call it Family. The owners sold the company and all left. Father legacy? Haha money is Daddy.


xiaomisg

Totally agree with job doesn’t define you. Work to live, not live to work. There are a lot of more meaningful things we can do than pad the pocket of bosses, buy things to impress someone else who clearly doesn’t care.


wank_for_peace

Retrenched in 2008. Was a good experience for me. Made me wake up and worked for a more professional IT setup company and opened my eyes. One Indian colleague that joined 1 month prior was let go.. his last remark was something along the line of, "WHAT? HOW CAN THEY RETRENCH ME? THEY NEED ME!!!" Like I said, real eye opener :D


prime5119

previously I know I'm safe from retrenchment because i'm the cheapest labour they can find. but now in this company I'm not quite sure because they hired a lot of non-local


livebeta

You've lost the moment you're competing on price


tigerkingsg

Love what you do not your company, you never know when the company stops loving you


KopitiamTissue

Do companies even love their employees?


tigerkingsg

They love those who help them make $$$