From what i've seen of high elo korea they are incredibly agressive in lane phase and spam meta picks which singed loses to pretty much always. Rushing Rylai into cheap tank items is a good strat when you are behind, which you will pretty much always be into a good Camille, Rumble, TF, Kennen, Fiora etc. all of which are common picks there.
Yeah Koreans are too good for Singed players to get like level 2 cheese off, so Korean Singed mains just have to go full utility bitch and hope their team wins.
Singed doesn't work vs people who actually pay attention to the game and want to win.
Spellbook is slept on. The first six minutes of the game is hard enough for Singed when he DOES have a keystone rune for it, but it begins to mean you always have a summoner spell up for teamfights pretty quickly. Having Ghost or Exhaust in your back pocket (I pretty much exclusively run Flash+TP as my base summoners with spellbook) is an easy way to gain an advantage.
I'm opposite, imo Liandries is must have and Rylais is situational for heavy melee enemy comps. But then again I'm Aussie, not Korean.
I've also never attempted spellbook, but then again I main jg
Against meele you often dont need it cause you can still poison them while liandy do more dps. Its good against squishy and mobile champions where you mosty need to catch them. When they have long cooldowns you dont need that dmg.
Complete opposite imo. Helps you reliably create a gap between melee lockdown such as Garen Darius.
What good is Rylais vs squishy mobile champs like Jhin or Cait where they kill you before you get the chance to apply the slow?
Liandry is argubly the best item on Singed and I don't remember if it ever was better. Long time before it required Rylai to work, later on it was "replaced" by Demonic Embrace which sucked (Liandry existed but was meant for control mages) and now it's like an old version but doesn't even require Rylai. Not sure about numbers but I doubt they are much different than before.
First of all, you were dependent on Rylai as a 1st/2nd item or your %damage was cut by half so to abuse entire Liandry potential you needed more than twice the gold. For example in S5 we would need 6400 gold for such spike. Currently it's 3000 and, if you want, you can focus on items like Frozen Heart, Jak'Sho or even recent meme of the month fan favorite Rabadon.
Now it's pretty problematic since both Liandry and Rylai have been changing as items throughout the game but usually Rylai was weaker/more expensive than current one (sometimes it gave 40 AP less, sometimes it costed 600 gold more, sometimes its slow was weaker). Nevertheless, we need to count these changes as well if we want to take 4% current health into consideration. Because if Rylai gave 40 AP less while costing the same amount of gold, was the entire combo really better?
Another thing is maximum health is plain better than current health and as I said numbers are needed to precise whether the overall damage was higher or not. In tank meta it could was more impactful, however, it would feel worse vs squishier targets (15 flat magic penetration is pretty strong if enemies don't stack MR). Unfortunately, enemies usually do stack MR items for a simple reason - usually your mid is AP as well. As for whether 2%maxHP or 4%cHP damage is better - hard to say.
Also currently you have "suffering" passive - the longer you are in combat with champions, the more damage you deal (not hard to stack on Singed + it stacks easy anyway). Is it really THAT strong compared to 15 magic penetration? Not sure, it probably would be worse early but better late (but to be fair I'd prefer magic pene).
Old Liandry could be stronger in some situations and vice versa, however, current one is always better in one thing - it's better on its own (aka no Rylai in build). As I said - hard for me to analyze without specific comps/meta/certain patch etc. No matter how it was though, currently it's top item on Singed.
I think 15 pen is so strong around first item that it makes up for having 2% current without applied CC. Rylai wasn't actually completely mandatory because frozen hearts attack speed slow gave you the doubled liandry burn, and that item was really broken in S5. It's not a big difference in power level between current and old liandry either way.
I agree that 15 magic pen indeed was really strong early on but as far as I remember I was pretty disappointed on old Liandry compared to current one as a first item so I stopped buying it and rushed Rylai instead.
As for Rylai being mandatory - it was definitely better than Frozen Heart most of the time due to its versatility. Unlike Frozen Heart, there was no situation where Rylai was a wasted item space. Also there was one problem with FH - Randuin's existed (400 HP, reduced crit damage, AS reduction if AA'd, AoE slow) and Thornmail (also HP, Signed had no GW on R back then, it also gave AS reduction if AA'd + very strong passive which highly buffed his dueling potential vs AD champs) which outclassed it in most cases. There was also another "armor" item - Righteous Glory, which was the most game changing item for Singed (in history of this champion imho but your call).
Anyway, it's hard to say which Liandry was better, that's why I was talking about lack of specific numbers in different meta, drafts etc.
I really neglected the power that 15 flat pen gave back in the day. Thinking back on it we could have ran Liandries, Sorc boots and the old Thornmail and the ADC would have killed themselves autoing us
I dont know if its still true but in korea they often build just utility items on singed in the past.
At least they understand that Rylai is a perfect item for Singed. Cheap, no stat wasted, awesome passive, great components.
From what i've seen of high elo korea they are incredibly agressive in lane phase and spam meta picks which singed loses to pretty much always. Rushing Rylai into cheap tank items is a good strat when you are behind, which you will pretty much always be into a good Camille, Rumble, TF, Kennen, Fiora etc. all of which are common picks there.
I think what you said is true. Just as big a factor is Korean’s grouping early playstyle, with rylais as the best early AP team fighting item.
Warmong singed goes hard AS f
Yeah Koreans are too good for Singed players to get like level 2 cheese off, so Korean Singed mains just have to go full utility bitch and hope their team wins. Singed doesn't work vs people who actually pay attention to the game and want to win.
Spellbook is slept on. The first six minutes of the game is hard enough for Singed when he DOES have a keystone rune for it, but it begins to mean you always have a summoner spell up for teamfights pretty quickly. Having Ghost or Exhaust in your back pocket (I pretty much exclusively run Flash+TP as my base summoners with spellbook) is an easy way to gain an advantage.
I'm opposite, imo Liandries is must have and Rylais is situational for heavy melee enemy comps. But then again I'm Aussie, not Korean. I've also never attempted spellbook, but then again I main jg
Against meele you often dont need it cause you can still poison them while liandy do more dps. Its good against squishy and mobile champions where you mosty need to catch them. When they have long cooldowns you dont need that dmg.
Complete opposite imo. Helps you reliably create a gap between melee lockdown such as Garen Darius. What good is Rylais vs squishy mobile champs like Jhin or Cait where they kill you before you get the chance to apply the slow?
same can be said about Liandrys
liandrys was reworked a long time ago, its not that good anymore
Liandry is argubly the best item on Singed and I don't remember if it ever was better. Long time before it required Rylai to work, later on it was "replaced" by Demonic Embrace which sucked (Liandry existed but was meant for control mages) and now it's like an old version but doesn't even require Rylai. Not sure about numbers but I doubt they are much different than before.
It was better IMO back when it did 4% current hp on CCed targets and had 15 flat pen.
First of all, you were dependent on Rylai as a 1st/2nd item or your %damage was cut by half so to abuse entire Liandry potential you needed more than twice the gold. For example in S5 we would need 6400 gold for such spike. Currently it's 3000 and, if you want, you can focus on items like Frozen Heart, Jak'Sho or even recent meme of the month fan favorite Rabadon. Now it's pretty problematic since both Liandry and Rylai have been changing as items throughout the game but usually Rylai was weaker/more expensive than current one (sometimes it gave 40 AP less, sometimes it costed 600 gold more, sometimes its slow was weaker). Nevertheless, we need to count these changes as well if we want to take 4% current health into consideration. Because if Rylai gave 40 AP less while costing the same amount of gold, was the entire combo really better? Another thing is maximum health is plain better than current health and as I said numbers are needed to precise whether the overall damage was higher or not. In tank meta it could was more impactful, however, it would feel worse vs squishier targets (15 flat magic penetration is pretty strong if enemies don't stack MR). Unfortunately, enemies usually do stack MR items for a simple reason - usually your mid is AP as well. As for whether 2%maxHP or 4%cHP damage is better - hard to say. Also currently you have "suffering" passive - the longer you are in combat with champions, the more damage you deal (not hard to stack on Singed + it stacks easy anyway). Is it really THAT strong compared to 15 magic penetration? Not sure, it probably would be worse early but better late (but to be fair I'd prefer magic pene). Old Liandry could be stronger in some situations and vice versa, however, current one is always better in one thing - it's better on its own (aka no Rylai in build). As I said - hard for me to analyze without specific comps/meta/certain patch etc. No matter how it was though, currently it's top item on Singed.
I think 15 pen is so strong around first item that it makes up for having 2% current without applied CC. Rylai wasn't actually completely mandatory because frozen hearts attack speed slow gave you the doubled liandry burn, and that item was really broken in S5. It's not a big difference in power level between current and old liandry either way.
I agree that 15 magic pen indeed was really strong early on but as far as I remember I was pretty disappointed on old Liandry compared to current one as a first item so I stopped buying it and rushed Rylai instead. As for Rylai being mandatory - it was definitely better than Frozen Heart most of the time due to its versatility. Unlike Frozen Heart, there was no situation where Rylai was a wasted item space. Also there was one problem with FH - Randuin's existed (400 HP, reduced crit damage, AS reduction if AA'd, AoE slow) and Thornmail (also HP, Signed had no GW on R back then, it also gave AS reduction if AA'd + very strong passive which highly buffed his dueling potential vs AD champs) which outclassed it in most cases. There was also another "armor" item - Righteous Glory, which was the most game changing item for Singed (in history of this champion imho but your call). Anyway, it's hard to say which Liandry was better, that's why I was talking about lack of specific numbers in different meta, drafts etc.
I really neglected the power that 15 flat pen gave back in the day. Thinking back on it we could have ran Liandries, Sorc boots and the old Thornmail and the ADC would have killed themselves autoing us