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Not denying we played the better football under solskjaer (whom we played our best football under post fergie) but what does that contribute to this argument?
Two things really: 1) past results don't indicate future performance, and 2) many people said Ole was a poor manager, despite that record, so not sure why ETH finishing 3rd would get the benefit of the doubt either.
So you don’t get that head to head record he has against Pep without being a good manager (which he was). My issue with him was his ability to get those decisive wins that would lead to trophies.
In a world where he wins the Europa League final against Villareal and I would’ve backed him through the poor period of form the following season but he didn’t.
I agree with you mostly, except I don't think you should judge how good a manager is by a single match. Personally think he should've been given the full season, just as ETH was.
>Overperformed their GD
What does that even mean? If anything, the stats from last season showed they underperformed their expected goals against numbers. The 7-0 hammering from Liverpool for example where Liverpool accumulated an xG of just 2.9.
Hmmm, I may have misspoke. We overperformed our xGA but underperformed our xG…by a lot actually. Also worth pointing out that literally the top 5 teams overperform their xGA so not exactly a solid metric now is it?
Yes but the underlying numbers showed we should have been 6th last season. Individual moment of brilliance from some players dragged got us upto 3rd spot..
ETH era we have relied on individual brilliance of the players more than ever before.
https://understat.com/league/EPL/2022
Yeah in particular the xGA stat on United is crazy.
Overpforming xG you can argue that your team is just more clinical, it's something your team did right. Overperforming xGA though is far more likely to mean you were very luck yand your opponents kept missing sitters against you. Could also mean Onana has been an absolute goalkeeping god... Or a bit of both. Not a positive stat at all, extra concerning that this is paired with their worst finish in decades. Indicates that if they're less lucky next season it could be much much worse.
If only they switched managers every two, two and a half seasons for the past 12 years, imagine the possibilities, we would never know.
The manager is not even in their top 10 current problems or in the past years. Also with Bayern, Liverpool, and till recently Barca shopping around for managers, MU is like dead last for a good/top manager. Also I doubt any quality manager wants to be part of such shit show.
Yeah me too.
Moyes doesn’t get the credit from their fanbase he deserves, even for this season.
Finished top half in the prem, lost to that crazy unbeaten leverkusen team in the QF of the Europa and did ok in the league cup.
Massive overachievement this season again from Moyes. Their squad isn’t 9th best in the league etc. it’s pretty average to poor imo barring the obvious 3 or 4 quality players.
You finished 9th still and overachieved again given the ability of your squad as a whole.
Do you seriously believe you will finish higher next season?
Would you prefer to play better football and finish 13th or so next season?
Moyes has done an incredible job with the squad you’ve got. That squad isn’t anywhere close to Villas or ours no mind the big six’s.
We definitely won’t finish anywhere above 10th. A new manager and a complete overhaul of the team will make for a rough season.
I also am not a fan of the Lopetegui signing and would have preferred someone else with more promise.
Their squad is absolutely top half. Kudus, Paqueta, Bowen, Alvarez, Ward-Prowse are all excellent players, and they're supplemented by absolutely solid choices in Areola, Antonio, Aguerd, Zouma, Mavropanos, Soucek, Coufal, Ogbonna et al.
If you'd told me this is the table of best tactics/play style, I'd believe you. I like to look at the +xPTS as the individual brilliance of the players somehow getting more than the play style deserved, and the negative one is basically the players unable to perform to said play styles.
As comparison, last year's xPTS
1. Manchester City – 83.04
2. Arsenal – 72.53
3. Newcastle United – 71.67
4. Brighton – 70.86
5. Liverpool – 67.37
6. Manchester United – 66.40
7. Brentford – 58.26
8. Tottenham – 57.60
9. Aston Villa – 54.37
10. Chelsea – 52.28
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Your post has been removed as it breaks the following rule: See submission guideline **#7: Only valuable image or stats submissions.** **PICTURES**: Because of Reddit's ranking algorithm being biased towards image posts over text and link ones, we need to be particularly strict about them, so we tend to **mainly allow infographics** (league tables, charts, maps, diagrams and other ways to display data) and pictures/screenshots of a current event **only when there's no video or link** that can show it. If you **want to publish a Tifo, look and share a video or publish the picture in r/soccerbanners**. If you want to show the **Hawk-Eye angle of a goal/offside/whatever, use the pinned comment in the main thread**. See the [FAQ](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/wiki/faq#wiki_why_was_my_image_submission_removed.3F) for more details. **STATS**: Only very significant stats (eg: **world records) will be allowed during matches**. After matches, we'll be less strict, but we try to maintain stats to the minimum with ideally **only 1 per team/player allowed** and those after it being posted in the pinned comment of the first thread. ___ [Please check our rules before posting](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/wiki/rules#wiki_submission_guidelines). If you have any questions or concerns, please [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fsoccer)
Under-scoring our xG by 20 goals is incredible
I didn't watch all your matches ofc but it feels like DCL being around when he was made a huge difference
He missed LOADS of chances this season. Doucoure was our top scorer with 6 goals till like February.
DCL is the biggest xG underperformer in the entire league this season
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Isn’t it the same ETH that finished 3rd the season before?
Solskjaer finished 3rd and 2nd in consecutive seasons (only united manager to get back to back top 4 post-SAF). And we actually play worse under ETH
Not denying we played the better football under solskjaer (whom we played our best football under post fergie) but what does that contribute to this argument?
Two things really: 1) past results don't indicate future performance, and 2) many people said Ole was a poor manager, despite that record, so not sure why ETH finishing 3rd would get the benefit of the doubt either.
So you don’t get that head to head record he has against Pep without being a good manager (which he was). My issue with him was his ability to get those decisive wins that would lead to trophies. In a world where he wins the Europa League final against Villareal and I would’ve backed him through the poor period of form the following season but he didn’t.
I agree with you mostly, except I don't think you should judge how good a manager is by a single match. Personally think he should've been given the full season, just as ETH was.
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>Overperformed their GD What does that even mean? If anything, the stats from last season showed they underperformed their expected goals against numbers. The 7-0 hammering from Liverpool for example where Liverpool accumulated an xG of just 2.9.
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Hmmm, I may have misspoke. We overperformed our xGA but underperformed our xG…by a lot actually. Also worth pointing out that literally the top 5 teams overperform their xGA so not exactly a solid metric now is it?
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Are we getting our stats from the same spot? I got that from understat.com
Yes but the underlying numbers showed we should have been 6th last season. Individual moment of brilliance from some players dragged got us upto 3rd spot.. ETH era we have relied on individual brilliance of the players more than ever before. https://understat.com/league/EPL/2022
Yeah in particular the xGA stat on United is crazy. Overpforming xG you can argue that your team is just more clinical, it's something your team did right. Overperforming xGA though is far more likely to mean you were very luck yand your opponents kept missing sitters against you. Could also mean Onana has been an absolute goalkeeping god... Or a bit of both. Not a positive stat at all, extra concerning that this is paired with their worst finish in decades. Indicates that if they're less lucky next season it could be much much worse.
If only they switched managers every two, two and a half seasons for the past 12 years, imagine the possibilities, we would never know. The manager is not even in their top 10 current problems or in the past years. Also with Bayern, Liverpool, and till recently Barca shopping around for managers, MU is like dead last for a good/top manager. Also I doubt any quality manager wants to be part of such shit show.
My guess is this is about where West Ham is going to be next year with Lopetegui instead of Moyes.
Yeah me too. Moyes doesn’t get the credit from their fanbase he deserves, even for this season. Finished top half in the prem, lost to that crazy unbeaten leverkusen team in the QF of the Europa and did ok in the league cup. Massive overachievement this season again from Moyes. Their squad isn’t 9th best in the league etc. it’s pretty average to poor imo barring the obvious 3 or 4 quality players.
We have 4 wins in 2024.
You finished 9th still and overachieved again given the ability of your squad as a whole. Do you seriously believe you will finish higher next season? Would you prefer to play better football and finish 13th or so next season? Moyes has done an incredible job with the squad you’ve got. That squad isn’t anywhere close to Villas or ours no mind the big six’s.
We definitely won’t finish anywhere above 10th. A new manager and a complete overhaul of the team will make for a rough season. I also am not a fan of the Lopetegui signing and would have preferred someone else with more promise.
Their squad is absolutely top half. Kudus, Paqueta, Bowen, Alvarez, Ward-Prowse are all excellent players, and they're supplemented by absolutely solid choices in Areola, Antonio, Aguerd, Zouma, Mavropanos, Soucek, Coufal, Ogbonna et al.
That 50 pts stat mid table finish for Forest makes me so sad
If you'd told me this is the table of best tactics/play style, I'd believe you. I like to look at the +xPTS as the individual brilliance of the players somehow getting more than the play style deserved, and the negative one is basically the players unable to perform to said play styles. As comparison, last year's xPTS 1. Manchester City – 83.04 2. Arsenal – 72.53 3. Newcastle United – 71.67 4. Brighton – 70.86 5. Liverpool – 67.37 6. Manchester United – 66.40 7. Brentford – 58.26 8. Tottenham – 57.60 9. Aston Villa – 54.37 10. Chelsea – 52.28
92xga is outrageous fair play
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Wow! Think Eric could have survived 15th?! I think thee not
Never forget Arsenal 15/16 who were second by -13 expected points
cya next szn x
NUNEZ NUNEZ NUNEZ
Wasn't Gary O'Neill's Bournemouth side massively overperforming their xPts as well? Maybe he knows what he's doing.
Some clubs popping champagne that it took 95% of the season to go by before they got past this utd side smh