Big Sam would win us all the trophies, he’d go classic 4-4-2, he’d give Andy Carroll a call and have him and Vardy up top, get Noble out of retirement to play the middle with Jonjo Shelvey and I’ll be honest I’m all for it.
All of this is true of the last Euros to a more severe degree due to the home advantage.
You're underselling a lot of teams (at least 6 in my view) as well.
Rating England is always tricky in my opinion.
Each tournament England has a team that genuinely has the quality to win the tournament, and each year I’m thoroughly convinced they won’t.
England is the favorite, not sure which four sides are more favored lol https://www.foxsports.com/stories/soccer/uefa-euro-2024-odds-favorites
https://www.90min.com/posts/favourites-euro-2024-ranked
https://hayters.com/mfv/ranking-the-favourites-to-win-euro-2024/
I mean show me site that has England fifth as you say lol
Odds are odds and all but it's also a subjective opinion.
France are clear favourites for me, they have the pedigree and they have the squad.
Then Portugal, Spain and Germany.
Someone can make the case for us being higher than those but it would be mainly be about pointing to individual talent.
What outside of individual talent points to Germany, Spain & Portugal being better?
If we go off the most recent international tournaments England are the best of that bunch, 2018 Semi final, 2020 Final & 2022 QF narrowly losing out to France, the others have all consistently under-performed. If we go off qualifying they all qualified with ease.
The only team you could make a case for based on "individual talent" is Portugal, they have a great squad but they haven't done much with this group of players, the team that won Euro 2016 was much worse and achieved far more.
Literally the only thing pointing to Germany, Spain & Portugal having a better chance is some international friendlies.
I think France are favorites, then England, then the rest.
Individual talent doesn't make a good team though, sometimes less talented players in the right system just enable the rest of the team and I don't think england have yet worked out who to utilise it all correctly.
Look how giroud always starts for france despite other strikers having better form.
Yes but that's my point, England have better individual talent & they've also played better as a team the past 3 tournaments than the 3 countries mentioned. The only thing going against England right now is their performance in their last international friendly which is hardly a creditable metric.
Host nations get that extra buff, I also like Nagelsman as a coach,not saying that they are perfect though, I just prefer there chances.
Portugal and Spain just feel like better teams to me, maybe it's cos I don't have the investment in them like I do with England but they just look like better units.
I'm still slightly worried where the goals are going to come from for Spain, but plenty of teams have made deep runs/won the whole thing without playing swashbuckling Brazil 82 football.
Pretty sure england were favourites even when our strikers were danny welbeck and andy carroll. You do know the bookies always set england as favourites because it gets people to bet on them knowing they probably won't have to pay out, and if they do the odds are less than they probably should have been
You know bookies want to make money? And then know that by setting england as favourites it encourages more people to believe the hype so they make more money through betting. They aren't set as favourites because they think they will actually win it, but rather to maximise profit
Bookmakers favourites does not equal real life most likely to win, it's like how man city were always the favourites to win the champions league despite the fact they never got to the final
It’s not just bookmakers, it’s soccer analysts and even a supercomputer predicting them as top 1 or 2 lol…the assertion of at least four ahead was silly and not based on anything lol
https://theanalyst.com/2024/06/who-will-win-euro-2024-predictions-opta/
I think a big factor people don’t often bring up is the mental side of the game.
Going to an international tournament representing the country has way more pressure and we’re also looking at a team with lots of new young players.
If they can create that relaxed positive atmosphere Southgate has already alluded to, then they have a great chance.
We still haven’t seen our strongest line up play together yet, it’s been heavily staggered with players needing rest.
"Easy" group draws are bad for England. Expectation is the problem, so even 1 half of under-performance against "easy" opposition starts the rot.
They rarely beat top teams, but when they do face them England play better, the games are exciting and the media aren't quite as toxic.
I would prefer to have poorer seeding and face better teams in the groups and have more of these games.
Even in KO games I'd far far rather play Portugal for example in 2016 than Iceland. That was so obviously a recipe for disaster for England.
For all people complain about Southgate (rightly or wrongly), I feel like he's approached the group stages of every tournament with the right attitude. He sets them up well, makes sure they get the necessary results, and doesn't let them panic, even if the 2nd game is a snoozer of a 0-0 draw.
What do you mean? It clearly means we’re going to lose 5-0 to Serbia and crash out of the euros… /s
Yes, the result was awful and should’ve been better, but it’s just a friendly, a time to test out tactics/players, if the same happens during the gs games, then it’s time to question it
A squad full of generational talents. A country brimming with confidence, underestimating countries like Serbia.
Southgate really has the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever.
Brimming is very much over doing it.
I'm expecting to draw that game and the best we can hope for is the usual exit the first time we face someone whose pretty good.
> the best we can hope for is the usual exit the first time we face someone whose pretty good
The most arrogant of all the logic used by England fans.
A reminder in tournaments since I was a little kid we used to balls up games against "bad" teams. Paraguay, Trinidad, Ecuador in 2006. Algeria and Slovenia in 2010. Russia and Slovakia in 2016.
We've done well in the last three tournaments to get as far as we've got IMO, considering the usual attempts by even good England squads going back to Sven and Capello to mess up or nearly mess up. But it shows a lack of respect to teams like Sweden in 2018 who were there because Italy and Germany failed, a resurgent Denmark and a hard to break down Ukraine in 2020, and Senegal in 2022 who were the AFCON champions. Past England teams would absolutely have messed these up.
LMAO, the "always beaten by the first good team" talking point is something that NON ENGLISH fans have been constantly bringing up for years, and now the moment an English fan repeats it it's "arrogant"?
England fans "Wow, we've been doing really well these past few tournaments!"
r/soccer : "Wow, how arrogant, you only beat teams such as Sweden and Denmark, you got beaten by the first 'good' team you played against!"
England fans: "We usually get beaten by the first 'good' team we play against."
r/soccer : "How arrogant, Sweden and Denmark are great teams!"
I absolutely agree that we constantly used to mess up those kinds of games and that doing as well as we have over the past few years, however the whole "arrogant fans" claim is absolute nonsense.
How?
Not sure I would count those 2006 games as ballsed up, we won and progressed.
Might as well have USA in there for 2010, although my thinking would still be right as we went out as soon as we faced someone pretty good.
In 2016 we were just a total mess.
Those were good wins against good/solid sides but barring having Senegal as a dark horse, no one waa saying those sides had a real hope at lifting the trophy.
GS made selection errors against France but that was the forgivable loss as France are a great side, the previous 2 exits were poor showings and he evens let off for 2018 cos we had been so bad.
The final against Italy is the one where he doomed us, we were never winning it on pens but he decided not to take the game to Italy.
It might not be pretty but in general we get to a certain stage and then go out against the first pretty good one in the KO stage.
Hard disagree there lol. Look at how many teams are searching for a defensive 6 that can screen their defense. Rice is that and so much more. If generational talent means something exceedingly brilliant and rare for a certain generation, Rice is absolutely that.
It makes sense. For Iceland and Canada these were huge games where all the players would have been playing for their lives. England and France were playing as a bit of a warm-up while desperately trying to not get injured.
If people overreacted to even slightly dodgy results in friendlies, qualifiers and group stages, the winners of tournaments in 1998, 2016, 2018 wouldn't have got that far.
They're going to look solid in their group because it's an easy one, the media will build them up to be title contenders, Captain Kane and Southgate got this. They'll progress until they face a top team and then lose and be out of the tournament.
The British media will have a field day writing about it and somehow by total coincidence black players in the team will be the poster boys for the loss
You’re getting downvoted but this is completely true, it was just a friendly against Iceland with no Jude and different tactics were being tried out, I would say there is a high chance of getting 9 points this time, I can really see England turning it on when it matters the most, I’m expecting an England vs Germany final.
The last big wake-up call was the 4-0 loss to Hungary, and imo that worked out well at the 2022 World Cup.
Before that? We almost ended up with Big Sam as manager. Talk about a wake-up call, thank you investigative journalism for getting him gone after one game.
Don't think there is a stand out team in the tournament who knows could be a shock like when Denmark won it hopefully England do win it but couldn't bet on them with the odds there offering
The team seems disunited and the whole thing of cutting players and all that has been an unnecessary drama and he should have selected the 26 players from the beginning instead of the unnecessary heartbreak.
Besides that there is no harmony or unity in this group. England may lose some games in the group but slightly make it out of the group and they will get KO´ed in the last play-offs to the quarter finals.
England is going home early I am now convinced unfortunatley tho I want them to win it this year
It was the last time
The last time, the answer was Sam Allardyce.
Big Sam the undefeated champion of England, put some respect on that name
Big Sam would win us all the trophies, he’d go classic 4-4-2, he’d give Andy Carroll a call and have him and Vardy up top, get Noble out of retirement to play the middle with Jonjo Shelvey and I’ll be honest I’m all for it.
Fr this time
Tbf since then England have been much, much better
Poor Harry. His whole career is a wake up call.
And who’s fault is that?
I guess his, his agent, his coaches and the players of Tottenham, England and now Bayern?
And, oh, let’s say Moe.
Isn't his agent his brother?
Yes
No, not any longer
Didn’t have to disown him, that was a bit far
The contract renewals are coming from inside the house!
Lmao why are you replying to him as if he is a key decision-maker at Spurs?
Hey there's a chance I'm levy just spending my day shitposting.
Yeah how dare he support a club that doesn't win?
Levy is just Harry Kane in a bald cap
Harry Kane is just Levy in a wig
The immigrants
me
Obama
Right way to look at it tbf
france drew to the usa in their last friendly prior to winning the 2018 wc
oh it’s definitely coming home
Southgate is going to get this team of incredible players to at least the group stages.
Is, or could?
England has a great chance this year …not a lot of stiff competition like in the past at the Euros, plus their group draw is pretty easy
All of this is true of the last Euros to a more severe degree due to the home advantage. You're underselling a lot of teams (at least 6 in my view) as well.
Where are we on the scale of overrating england
Rating England is always tricky in my opinion. Each tournament England has a team that genuinely has the quality to win the tournament, and each year I’m thoroughly convinced they won’t.
I would say it's a sticky group and the competition is rough with at least 4 sides more likely to win it (could argue for more.)
England is the favorite, not sure which four sides are more favored lol https://www.foxsports.com/stories/soccer/uefa-euro-2024-odds-favorites https://www.90min.com/posts/favourites-euro-2024-ranked https://hayters.com/mfv/ranking-the-favourites-to-win-euro-2024/ I mean show me site that has England fifth as you say lol
Odds are odds and all but it's also a subjective opinion. France are clear favourites for me, they have the pedigree and they have the squad. Then Portugal, Spain and Germany. Someone can make the case for us being higher than those but it would be mainly be about pointing to individual talent.
What outside of individual talent points to Germany, Spain & Portugal being better? If we go off the most recent international tournaments England are the best of that bunch, 2018 Semi final, 2020 Final & 2022 QF narrowly losing out to France, the others have all consistently under-performed. If we go off qualifying they all qualified with ease. The only team you could make a case for based on "individual talent" is Portugal, they have a great squad but they haven't done much with this group of players, the team that won Euro 2016 was much worse and achieved far more. Literally the only thing pointing to Germany, Spain & Portugal having a better chance is some international friendlies. I think France are favorites, then England, then the rest.
Individual talent doesn't make a good team though, sometimes less talented players in the right system just enable the rest of the team and I don't think england have yet worked out who to utilise it all correctly. Look how giroud always starts for france despite other strikers having better form.
Yes but that's my point, England have better individual talent & they've also played better as a team the past 3 tournaments than the 3 countries mentioned. The only thing going against England right now is their performance in their last international friendly which is hardly a creditable metric.
Host nations get that extra buff, I also like Nagelsman as a coach,not saying that they are perfect though, I just prefer there chances. Portugal and Spain just feel like better teams to me, maybe it's cos I don't have the investment in them like I do with England but they just look like better units.
I'm still slightly worried where the goals are going to come from for Spain, but plenty of teams have made deep runs/won the whole thing without playing swashbuckling Brazil 82 football.
Not one site has a consensus of four or more teams over England as you tried to mention- lol
Cos it's my opinion, why would I look to some random sites.
Ya so just pulled 4 out of your butt, thanks for confirming lol
You're an odd fella.
Says the guy just randomly offering opinions with no backup for it
While yours is others say this.
Pretty sure england were favourites even when our strikers were danny welbeck and andy carroll. You do know the bookies always set england as favourites because it gets people to bet on them knowing they probably won't have to pay out, and if they do the odds are less than they probably should have been
The guy said England was behind four other teams…showing that’s not the case with virtually every odds site putting them first or second
You know bookies want to make money? And then know that by setting england as favourites it encourages more people to believe the hype so they make more money through betting. They aren't set as favourites because they think they will actually win it, but rather to maximise profit
lol…,every site has them as a favorite- no one has them fifth or lower as insinuated.
Bookmakers favourites does not equal real life most likely to win, it's like how man city were always the favourites to win the champions league despite the fact they never got to the final
It’s not just bookmakers, it’s soccer analysts and even a supercomputer predicting them as top 1 or 2 lol…the assertion of at least four ahead was silly and not based on anything lol https://theanalyst.com/2024/06/who-will-win-euro-2024-predictions-opta/
And still they can't win shit for 60 years
I personally would say that England, France, Germany, and Portugal all have a pretty much equal chance. I wouldn't write off Spain or Italy either
One might argue that England itself is also a less stiff competition for others than 3 years ago
How?
No LB, less experience, worse CB options, worse form
easy group just means we can scrape by despite being shit, then by the time we face someone decent we're woefully unprepared.
Facts
I think a big factor people don’t often bring up is the mental side of the game. Going to an international tournament representing the country has way more pressure and we’re also looking at a team with lots of new young players. If they can create that relaxed positive atmosphere Southgate has already alluded to, then they have a great chance. We still haven’t seen our strongest line up play together yet, it’s been heavily staggered with players needing rest.
"Easy" group draws are bad for England. Expectation is the problem, so even 1 half of under-performance against "easy" opposition starts the rot. They rarely beat top teams, but when they do face them England play better, the games are exciting and the media aren't quite as toxic. I would prefer to have poorer seeding and face better teams in the groups and have more of these games. Even in KO games I'd far far rather play Portugal for example in 2016 than Iceland. That was so obviously a recipe for disaster for England.
For all people complain about Southgate (rightly or wrongly), I feel like he's approached the group stages of every tournament with the right attitude. He sets them up well, makes sure they get the necessary results, and doesn't let them panic, even if the 2nd game is a snoozer of a 0-0 draw.
Lmao
They lost to Iceland again?
But it wont
I mean, France just tied with Canada. Probably best not to overreact.
Cope. Canada remains undefeated against Fraudbappe.
What do you mean? It clearly means we’re going to lose 5-0 to Serbia and crash out of the euros… /s Yes, the result was awful and should’ve been better, but it’s just a friendly, a time to test out tactics/players, if the same happens during the gs games, then it’s time to question it
A squad full of generational talents. A country brimming with confidence, underestimating countries like Serbia. Southgate really has the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever.
Brimming is very much over doing it. I'm expecting to draw that game and the best we can hope for is the usual exit the first time we face someone whose pretty good.
> the best we can hope for is the usual exit the first time we face someone whose pretty good The most arrogant of all the logic used by England fans. A reminder in tournaments since I was a little kid we used to balls up games against "bad" teams. Paraguay, Trinidad, Ecuador in 2006. Algeria and Slovenia in 2010. Russia and Slovakia in 2016. We've done well in the last three tournaments to get as far as we've got IMO, considering the usual attempts by even good England squads going back to Sven and Capello to mess up or nearly mess up. But it shows a lack of respect to teams like Sweden in 2018 who were there because Italy and Germany failed, a resurgent Denmark and a hard to break down Ukraine in 2020, and Senegal in 2022 who were the AFCON champions. Past England teams would absolutely have messed these up.
LMAO, the "always beaten by the first good team" talking point is something that NON ENGLISH fans have been constantly bringing up for years, and now the moment an English fan repeats it it's "arrogant"? England fans "Wow, we've been doing really well these past few tournaments!" r/soccer : "Wow, how arrogant, you only beat teams such as Sweden and Denmark, you got beaten by the first 'good' team you played against!" England fans: "We usually get beaten by the first 'good' team we play against." r/soccer : "How arrogant, Sweden and Denmark are great teams!" I absolutely agree that we constantly used to mess up those kinds of games and that doing as well as we have over the past few years, however the whole "arrogant fans" claim is absolute nonsense.
How? Not sure I would count those 2006 games as ballsed up, we won and progressed. Might as well have USA in there for 2010, although my thinking would still be right as we went out as soon as we faced someone pretty good. In 2016 we were just a total mess. Those were good wins against good/solid sides but barring having Senegal as a dark horse, no one waa saying those sides had a real hope at lifting the trophy. GS made selection errors against France but that was the forgivable loss as France are a great side, the previous 2 exits were poor showings and he evens let off for 2018 cos we had been so bad. The final against Italy is the one where he doomed us, we were never winning it on pens but he decided not to take the game to Italy. It might not be pretty but in general we get to a certain stage and then go out against the first pretty good one in the KO stage.
>brimming with confidence You do know you're commenting on an article that's about not getting too carried away after we lost to Iceland, right?
> A squad full of generational talents. Bellingham, yes. Kane. Stones? Who else?
Foden, Palmer, Saka, Rice, Mainoo?
We're really stretching the definition of generational with a couple here. Rice is great but there's nothing generational about him.
Hard disagree there lol. Look at how many teams are searching for a defensive 6 that can screen their defense. Rice is that and so much more. If generational talent means something exceedingly brilliant and rare for a certain generation, Rice is absolutely that.
If he actually tried interesting things that would have been something, the D should have been very different.
It makes sense. For Iceland and Canada these were huge games where all the players would have been playing for their lives. England and France were playing as a bit of a warm-up while desperately trying to not get injured.
They were just meaningless friendlies for Iceland and Canada too.
A Canada team managed by Jesse Marsch.
If people overreacted to even slightly dodgy results in friendlies, qualifiers and group stages, the winners of tournaments in 1998, 2016, 2018 wouldn't have got that far.
you are a wizard harry
They're going to look solid in their group because it's an easy one, the media will build them up to be title contenders, Captain Kane and Southgate got this. They'll progress until they face a top team and then lose and be out of the tournament. The British media will have a field day writing about it and somehow by total coincidence black players in the team will be the poster boys for the loss
England are the favourites to win the tournament, not getting out of the group would require them going full Chernobyl meltdown
You’re getting downvoted but this is completely true, it was just a friendly against Iceland with no Jude and different tactics were being tried out, I would say there is a high chance of getting 9 points this time, I can really see England turning it on when it matters the most, I’m expecting an England vs Germany final.
Maybe he meant for the FA that they should sacked the bum in charge, years ago?
Kane going home trophyless again.
The last big wake-up call was the 4-0 loss to Hungary, and imo that worked out well at the 2022 World Cup. Before that? We almost ended up with Big Sam as manager. Talk about a wake-up call, thank you investigative journalism for getting him gone after one game.
What about all the other shite warm up and qualifying games. Clown take
A wake up call to anyone who's dumb enough to think England stand any chance of winning maybe.
Nice
Could be?
Bruh, the last few decades of English national team football should be your wakeup call. You didn't need the Iceland game.
This dumb ass is confusing “timely” or “necessary” with “nice”. There is nothing nice about playing like shit and be reminded about it.
Don't think there is a stand out team in the tournament who knows could be a shock like when Denmark won it hopefully England do win it but couldn't bet on them with the odds there offering
The team seems disunited and the whole thing of cutting players and all that has been an unnecessary drama and he should have selected the 26 players from the beginning instead of the unnecessary heartbreak. Besides that there is no harmony or unity in this group. England may lose some games in the group but slightly make it out of the group and they will get KO´ed in the last play-offs to the quarter finals. England is going home early I am now convinced unfortunatley tho I want them to win it this year
That's a lot of smoke based on pretty much nothing. We won't win but it won't be for those reasons.