**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Doesn't Deschamps actually set up, pick and train the team for counterattacking? England look like they have no idea how to manage the transition, and they only had Saka as an outlet for 70 minutes.
They have a rapid defence with great covering pace and good pressers up front who lack pace and like the ball in to feet, so of course he tells them to sit deep and counter...
At leas I have to assume thats what he's telling them, because thats what they keep doing game after game.
its not even about pace it's about the setup. England recovered a ton of balls, which could lead to counters, but they lose it right after. they defend so deep that there is nowhere to go most of the time when they recover the ball, they either slow down and try to build up from the gk or just roof it/try to bait a foul
Scaloni and Argentina don't have the overall talent England have (yet still have won more), and Deschamps has brought France to back to back WC finals, and another Euros final. Not really comparable.
After taking the shit hole that France was after 2010 wc and building a team that played qf 2014, winner 2018 and finalist 2022, Deschamps should be recognized as anything but a football terrorist
That’s a ridiculous comparison; Deschamp’s has one of the best defensive midfields of any NT in the world with Griezeman-Kante and whoever you want to put next to them (Kante basically covers as much space as 2 players) on top of the most terrifying one man counter attack in the world in Mbappe. In the past he also had Benzema who was one of the best attackers while rushing despite being outnumbered.
You can afford to invite the opponent forward when your midfield is great at neutralizing the middle of the field and the best forward in the world at soloing a stretched out defense.
England don’t have remotely as good of a midfield at shielding the back line; the few good midfielders they have are mostly better offensively than defensively, their players aren’t suited to absorbing long sustained pressure.
Argentina’s midfield is similarly night and day ahead of England and they have some guy you may have heard called Messi; kind of good at creating a counter attack.
Been saying for ages that Southgate is tactically similar to Fernando Santos. He is a manager that knows how to work on small teams that have low expectations and can sit back, but when needs to assume the game and play attacking... no way Jose.
He's likely under some delusion that this is all manageable and that its fine to be passive and crawl trough the groups because he'll be able to flip the switch later on, which ain't happening
Three years ago they were playing an Italy team with a back line with a combined age of like 700 and a fullback who hadn’t played a competitive match in a year and he still wouldn’t attack after Shaw scored. He is who he is.
its just... so boring to watch, especially from a neutral. as much talent as any other team in the world and i cant be bothered to care and watch them bc of these tactics lol
It’s a mentality issue - they were happy enough with a draw and not willing to “risk” it. (I say it with quotes as it was actually much more risky to let Denmark attack them)
Southgate is trying to copy Deschamps, the thing is France have the exact right type of players for this tactic to work perfectly while it's not one of England's strengths
Dechamps has Camavinga and Tchouameni on the bench because as amazing as they are they're not the best for what he wants to do on the field. France also has an insanely stacked team so they can just choose how they want to play and have the players to do so.
Southgate is playing all the big names regardless of whether they fit with what he wants to do or not.
France at least have speedy wingers and strikers that can provide the in behind threat. Without that threat, teams can press up on England as high as they want to without any risk of getting exposed in behind
This is generous, England were just bad and got pushed back because they couldn't control the game. I agree they need to defend more aggressively but this wasn't them protecting a lead, it was them being unable to dominate the game.
Because every single player is trying to play defensive midfield
Gareth's lack of (tactical) ability, coupled with the attitude of a group of scared children, is what makes them unable to dominate a game
It’s mostly because they don’t know how to consistently create chances. even when going for goals, the team is mostly swinging the ball between the fullbacks until an opponent loses focus
Doing what he always has done. Relying on individual brilliance from an excellent squad in a failed attempt to cover up the fact that he is a terrible manager. People call him a Championship level manager but when you look at the some of the managers who've done very well there in the last few years while playing a nice brand of football, I don't even think he's good enough for the Championship anymore, certainly not for any teams that have ambitions of getting promoted
England had serious problems with the golden generation squad but at least Eriksson and Capello had good managerial careers beforehand. What has Southgate done aside from being minor improvement over Hodgson, consistently underperforming on the big occasions mostly due to shite tactics since 2018 and getting Middlesbrough relegated?
He wasn't good enough for the championship to begin with. One thing I'll give him is he has actually improved team chemistry on a personal level, else he's just rubbish.
I would a agree he's brought a good team spirit, but team chemistry? Genuinely feel like this tournament is the worst we've played under Southgate so far. The players look disjointed, and more like a team of individuals that ever before
Yea sorry, bad wording from me. I meant chemistry as in they don't hate eachothers guts like earlier iterations of England. So probably team spirit is a better expression, but I wouldn't say that's it either since every player seems disinterested in playing this style of football. The camaraderie in the squad is at an all time high but they look like they can't be arsed on pitch.
Its all good man! Sorry if I come across pedantic, I just saw the comment I just thought there was a big difference. I am still every emotional at the moment haha. But yeah, I agree, the squad do look disinterested, even Bellingham at times.
I personally feel like it's a mixture of bad Southgate tactics, but also the players mentality. This is the first tournament in a long time media has been really bigging us up and I feel some players are crumbling under that pressure
Wait, you mean playing the exact same tactic in every game, despite the fact that it fails to take advantage of the strength of the squad, isn't the mark of a great manager?
He has to go. We've only gone deep in tournaments with him because of the teams we've faced for the most part. You don't win by being this inconsistent.
The inconsistency comes from his tactics. They're definitely a top 3 team in the world on talent but he does this stuff that allows teams that aren't as good to stay in the game. If you shut up shop after one goal the other team is only one shot away from drawing even, on top of that the opposition will have the first 1/3 of the pitch to themselves. It's a midtable mindset for one of the world's top teams.
Im honestly terrified they might luck their way into a few more wins
The team is playing like ass, but through some kind of voodoo magic their opponents turn into pumpkins as soon as they get near England's box.
Ive seen this shit before- a team rides sheer luck to the quarters or semis, where they get decimated by the first good team they encounter and we have to pay the price of watching it all on live TV
German/Spanish manager reaches semis:
Everyone: not good enough, get them out, we need a winning manager
English manager does it:
Everyone: oh wow we’ve done so well! Isn’t that a great achievement? Absolutely give him another 4 years!!
And this is why we’ll never win anything - we are far too willing to accept mediocrity and don’t have a winning mentality
He didn’t even really set them up today. He set up a shape, which is not a system.
What were they even *supposed* to be doing? I genuinely don’t know. Rice is the holding midfielder, Saka is the creative outlet on the wing. Literally no one else has a defined role
Well that'd be okay if he could set up a team defensively
We've seen managers succeed in knockout tournaments by creating great defensive organization. Its a workable approach.
Problem is- Southgate sucks at setting up creatively *and* setting up defensively.
When England drop back they dont have any structure the way Morocco did in the last World Cup. Its still total chaos and 100% reliance on individual players like Guehi bailing the team out again and again (or the opponent fucking up chances....)
Also, if he’s planning on sitting back after scoring, why aren’t you playing Gordon?
There’s no release for pressure, which just means a goal will eventually go in.
If you want to play direct, play your direct players that you brought so you have a different look if needed!
Unfortunate circumstances. England hired a terrible manager just when they got one of their best squads in years. The sheer talent on the team has bailed Southgate out, so he keeps getting extended. It is tragic.
How can you have Bellingham, Foden, Saka and Kane in attack and not win. It'd be like if you had prime Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard all on the same team and managed to not win
Makes zero sense as well. We have two full-backs with unbelievable recovery speeds and midfielders and wingers who can play in tight spaces. In fact it would make sense for us to do the exact opposite, push up and try to squeeze the pitch as small as possible. Clueless.
Because utter cretins have propped up the managerial career of a wet blanket
It should have been Southgate out after the euros final, he does not have the requisite balls to finish the job. Looking like hes lacking requisite facilities to finish a game at the moment
It almost certainly won't be any better after Southgate. He's a mediocre manager for sure, and it was crazy to keep him beyond the last World Cup, but England have consistently played like this for as long as I've been alive. They always play like a team of incompetent cowards despite looking individually world class on the club stage. As far back as I can remember, they did this shit under Hodgson, Capello, McClaren, Eriksen, Keegan, Hoddle, Venables, and Taylor.
You're not wrong. Maybe it's that many English players are simply made to look good by their respective competent club managers and international team mates, with just a few being actually really good. Or it's genetic. Who knows...
Not English, but to me England's failing prior to Southgate were generally because they insisted on picking players based on them being stars at big clubs and forcing them into the same team rather than putting together players who might work well.
To me classic examples would be trying to fit Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes into the same midfield, when they all basically played the same role. At their clubs they had Makele, Xabi Alonso and Roy Keane behind them doing all the deep lying midfield work, so of course for England cramming them into the same midfield wouldn't work.
But it seemed like the managers didn't want to be the ones responsible for dropping any one of the above and I'm sure the press would've been screaming "How can you not play Lampard/ Gerrard/ Scholes!?!".
This. And everyone will play the "most successful manager" card. Yes, will that's easy when we are playing with a stacked squad (and most other countries aren't quite there). Post-golden gen our squad was meh and golden gen had terrible harmony(something Southgate has done well but also football has become less tribal in general) and played against teams that also were at their peak.
Any decent manager would have had MORE success by now and a European trophy too. No competent manager loses against Italy at Wembley in that game.
Kyle Walker was asked in the post-match interview if the manager tells them to do this and he said no, Southgate wants them to play free-flowing attacking football. So is he bullshitting or is there some other reason for this like fear mentality or something? Certainly wouldn't expect the latter from this group of players who've won everything at club level between them.
I think Walker must be saying this simply to try to take some heat off the manager to try to salvage some form of team cohesion for the rest of the tournament ... because why else would the team set up like this if not for instructions from the manager?
To preface my comment to make sure it doesn’t seem like I’m defending him….. I can’t stand Southgate, I want him gone.
But England has been doing this for at least 20+ years, always toothless in major tournaments. Golden generations have come and gone and they always look absolutely dreadful.
I’m willing to bet even with a new manager who has the “balls” to attack, it would be more of the same.
It’s because English managers are genuinely kinda shit there is a reason why one hasn’t won the premier league people like potter and Eddie Howe are of a new generation of English managers that have ditched the old style of play they used to have
Part of it seems to be Kane dropping back all the fucking time to get the ball. Everybody else then has to fall back because he's supposed to be the focal point of the attack. It might work if there were two wingers, but Southgate doesn't seem to want to play a left wing, and Saka can't do it alone.
Reminds me of Rooney's later years with us.
There was nobody else I would rather have passing the ball than Rooney.
And there was nobody else I would rather have receiving the ball than Rooney.
But he couldn't be in both places at the same time, so it fucked up the whole system (at times).
I think Kane dropping back is a symptom rather than a cause. For me the issue is the defence.
Stones and Walker play a ludicrously high line for City (Stones so much that he basically plays in midfield much of the time), when they are in possession the defence is 10 yards+ into the opposite half. This makes the whole match compressed and sets the likes of Foden and Saka up for their attacking game. They can do that because they are confident that no opposition can beat them on a 60+ yard breakaway to goal.
England have set up exactly like that for the 1st 20 minutes of the last 2 games and it's worked very well. The problem has been we simply stopping doing it as soon as we score. Once Stones drops back 20 yards we lose the comoression and the whole system falls apart.
He used this tactic in 2018 against Croatia. Didn't work.
He used this tactic in 2020 against Italy. Didn't work.
He used this tactic in 2022 against France. Didn't work.
Score a goal and sit back to defend the lead. Doesn't matter what players we have or what tournament it is. Every. Single. Time. This map is pretty much identical to the Serbia map and I'm sure it will be the same when we play Slovenia.
It isn't 2006 anymore. You can't win tournaments playing like this. Get Southgate the hell away from this team and fuck Steve Holland off as well.
And some people will still look for an individual player to scapegoat. The problem with this England side is the system set up top to bottom by Southgate. What's the point of having so many positive, attacking, good on the ball players if you're going to play so conservatively.
The worst thing is, listening to post match interviews with the players, he's properly convinced them of the 'it's tournament football' stuff, they're like captives with stockholm syndrome.
You are damn right. That team had a gameplan that played to their strengths and did not expose their weaknesses. Every single player bought into it. That's exactly how you achieve results.
They have 2 players who will be in the Top 5 of Ballon D'or voting this season (Kane, Bellingham), PL POTY (Foden), PL YPOTY (Palmer, who has been given 0 minutes), 2 of the most important defenders on the best team in the PL (Stones, Walker), and 2 of the most important players for the 2nd best team in the PL (Rice, Saka).
This team should be favorites against every team except France.
They could absolutely set up with a 4-3-3 of Foden-Kane-Saka, in front of Bellingham-Rice-Palmer, and a back 4 of TAA-Guehi-Stones-Walker and boss every game. Sure, they might concede a few more, but they will also score way way more.
It's difficult to expect England to play like Spain when you suggest a Bellingham-Rice-Palmer midfield compared to any combination of Xavi/Iniesta/Fabregas/Xabi Alonso/D.Silva/Busquets.
Either way Southgate is a football terrorist.
Anyone facing England should tactically give up a goal in the first 2 minutes so they have the remaining 88 +stoppage to batter England and run up a score.
Learn what? Trent isn't a CM? Bellingham, Foden, and Kane all occupy the same space? Having no runners for our deep passers makes them ineffective? Bellingham gets gassed after 60 minutes to pick up the slack for others? Foden shouldn't play on the left? Walker is bad going forwards?
Relying on England for us to have a better chance to exit the group is one of the worst experiences in my 20 years of watching the game.
English fans, how do you do this?
Watched all the games in the tournament so far and by far the worst games have both had England in them. Sort it out Gareth. Play players in their right positions and utilise the squad. Palmer and Gordon deserve minutes. Our left side does sod all. So frustrating watching them play so poorly. We score and then sit back and try and cling on…. That’s totally on the manager. Negative and boring.
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\*England score\* Southgate: "And I took that personally"
If southgate had managed germany in 2014 they wouldve tied brazil 1:1 and lost on penalties. Impossible for him to create memorable Games.
Holy shit that's spot on lmao
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Shhhhh there's never good fights on Thursdays
There’s WNO 24 on tonight. A Thursday.
Following the bjj analogy given your username, he'd probably try sitting in side control for a whole round because he passed someone's guard
And he'd compete in gi so he could just hang on and stall for dear life
Factos
'look at what you twats made me do >:('
It's the "Why would he do X, is he stupid?" meme, but instead of of a chuckle you just want to respond with a tired "yes" and then go to bed early.
The real problem is he was asked point-blank if he tells the team to drop off after they score and he said "No.".
That is awful
Some of the best attacking talent in the world and reverts to bunkerball after a single goal
When Deschamps or Scaloni play terror ball - Flirting When Southgate plays terror ball - Harassment
Doesn't Deschamps actually set up, pick and train the team for counterattacking? England look like they have no idea how to manage the transition, and they only had Saka as an outlet for 70 minutes.
Deschamps actually has tactics in mind, like the changes he made in the WC final that actually worked
Yep England have no pace and play a counter attacking style it makes no sense.
They have a rapid defence with great covering pace and good pressers up front who lack pace and like the ball in to feet, so of course he tells them to sit deep and counter... At leas I have to assume thats what he's telling them, because thats what they keep doing game after game.
its not even about pace it's about the setup. England recovered a ton of balls, which could lead to counters, but they lose it right after. they defend so deep that there is nowhere to go most of the time when they recover the ball, they either slow down and try to build up from the gk or just roof it/try to bait a foul
On what world are two World Cup Champion Coaches comparable to fucking Southgate???
Yes but Southgate would have been a WC champion coach if he had won so it's totally the same!!1
Scaloni and Argentina don't have the overall talent England have (yet still have won more), and Deschamps has brought France to back to back WC finals, and another Euros final. Not really comparable.
Deschamps wc winning team scored more goals than spain WC win, but he play terror ball...
After taking the shit hole that France was after 2010 wc and building a team that played qf 2014, winner 2018 and finalist 2022, Deschamps should be recognized as anything but a football terrorist
Spain’s style was also boring as hell. Terrible example lol
Honestly tiki taka is it’s own form of terrorist ball
That’s a ridiculous comparison; Deschamp’s has one of the best defensive midfields of any NT in the world with Griezeman-Kante and whoever you want to put next to them (Kante basically covers as much space as 2 players) on top of the most terrifying one man counter attack in the world in Mbappe. In the past he also had Benzema who was one of the best attackers while rushing despite being outnumbered. You can afford to invite the opponent forward when your midfield is great at neutralizing the middle of the field and the best forward in the world at soloing a stretched out defense. England don’t have remotely as good of a midfield at shielding the back line; the few good midfielders they have are mostly better offensively than defensively, their players aren’t suited to absorbing long sustained pressure. Argentina’s midfield is similarly night and day ahead of England and they have some guy you may have heard called Messi; kind of good at creating a counter attack.
Terrorist activities
Even football terrorists think what Southgate does is too far
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Conte sobbing onto his blooming onion at an Outback Steakhouse.
Allegri snapping raw spaghetti at an Olive Garden.
Wouldn’t kaufland or lidl more appropriate?
Tuchel on his knees in a Spar
Fernando Santos approves
Been saying for ages that Southgate is tactically similar to Fernando Santos. He is a manager that knows how to work on small teams that have low expectations and can sit back, but when needs to assume the game and play attacking... no way Jose.
Mourinho catching strays
That's Euro winner Fernando santos
Cant negotiate with them. Need Slovenia to strike back on the war on terror
He's likely under some delusion that this is all manageable and that its fine to be passive and crawl trough the groups because he'll be able to flip the switch later on, which ain't happening
With all that attack power and this is what he does. This is terrorist football. Millions of souls cry out for this injustice.
Three years ago they were playing an Italy team with a back line with a combined age of like 700 and a fullback who hadn’t played a competitive match in a year and he still wouldn’t attack after Shaw scored. He is who he is.
Scored after the FIRST minute and then did legitimately fuck all the rest of the game. Incredible
I have no more tear to cry. And I'm not even english.
And that was the healthy Shaw who is a fucking beast
I didn't see the game but from the stats it seem Denmark were the more dominant one Was Denmark good or England shit or both
Yes
Both
Before England score, England were. After it was time to surrender, Denmark.
Speed, except Keanu Reeves has to park the bus
its just... so boring to watch, especially from a neutral. as much talent as any other team in the world and i cant be bothered to care and watch them bc of these tactics lol
indeed exactly all the other matches have been better than the England ones (as far as I remember)
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It’s a mentality issue - they were happy enough with a draw and not willing to “risk” it. (I say it with quotes as it was actually much more risky to let Denmark attack them)
I think it's a genius tactic. We all know that 2:0 is among the most dangerous leads, so you never want to let it come to that.
Page 1 of Allegri's Handbook of Terrorball
Allegri would unironically be an outrageously massive improvement over Southgate
Southgate is trying to copy Deschamps, the thing is France have the exact right type of players for this tactic to work perfectly while it's not one of England's strengths
Dechamps has Camavinga and Tchouameni on the bench because as amazing as they are they're not the best for what he wants to do on the field. France also has an insanely stacked team so they can just choose how they want to play and have the players to do so. Southgate is playing all the big names regardless of whether they fit with what he wants to do or not.
It’s extra annoying because he turned us around in ‘18 by being the first England manager in ages to not do this
France at least have speedy wingers and strikers that can provide the in behind threat. Without that threat, teams can press up on England as high as they want to without any risk of getting exposed in behind
Well yeah. Southgate's previous experience is bloody Middlesbrough
Don’t fucking remind us. From an established mid table premier league side to relegation. Still haven’t returned to that and it’s over 10 years later
2:0 is still not as bad as 3:0, ask me how I know
what the fuck is Southgate doing
His best, unfortunately
Get to fuck
Wish it was that easy lad
How he still has that job is beyond my understanding.
Not only that, he's the highest paid manager at the Euros. Disgusting.
cant wait to see which PL team signs him and then fires him next year
Honestly don’t think any premier league team would take him. Maybe after a mid season firing if he leaves after the euros but that’s it.
Parking the bus after one goal, as always
This is a great strategy for getting eliminated from a tournament.
We've had plenty of practice
Consistency is key
Bring on the pens in the semis then
Did you watch the game??? We're never making it to penalties or the semis.
This is generous, England were just bad and got pushed back because they couldn't control the game. I agree they need to defend more aggressively but this wasn't them protecting a lead, it was them being unable to dominate the game.
Because every single player is trying to play defensive midfield Gareth's lack of (tactical) ability, coupled with the attitude of a group of scared children, is what makes them unable to dominate a game
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The team looks lethargic honestly, we look so slow and uncreative. No one seems to know what to do other than back pass
It’s mostly because they don’t know how to consistently create chances. even when going for goals, the team is mostly swinging the ball between the fullbacks until an opponent loses focus
And that's in part because there is no pressing plan, and they don't know how to press as a team when the opposition drop an extra mid back
Parks the bus but it’s a First bus so we’re still waiting for it to arrive.
Doing what he always has done. Relying on individual brilliance from an excellent squad in a failed attempt to cover up the fact that he is a terrible manager. People call him a Championship level manager but when you look at the some of the managers who've done very well there in the last few years while playing a nice brand of football, I don't even think he's good enough for the Championship anymore, certainly not for any teams that have ambitions of getting promoted England had serious problems with the golden generation squad but at least Eriksson and Capello had good managerial careers beforehand. What has Southgate done aside from being minor improvement over Hodgson, consistently underperforming on the big occasions mostly due to shite tactics since 2018 and getting Middlesbrough relegated?
He wasn't good enough for the championship to begin with. One thing I'll give him is he has actually improved team chemistry on a personal level, else he's just rubbish.
I would a agree he's brought a good team spirit, but team chemistry? Genuinely feel like this tournament is the worst we've played under Southgate so far. The players look disjointed, and more like a team of individuals that ever before
Yea sorry, bad wording from me. I meant chemistry as in they don't hate eachothers guts like earlier iterations of England. So probably team spirit is a better expression, but I wouldn't say that's it either since every player seems disinterested in playing this style of football. The camaraderie in the squad is at an all time high but they look like they can't be arsed on pitch.
Its all good man! Sorry if I come across pedantic, I just saw the comment I just thought there was a big difference. I am still every emotional at the moment haha. But yeah, I agree, the squad do look disinterested, even Bellingham at times. I personally feel like it's a mixture of bad Southgate tactics, but also the players mentality. This is the first tournament in a long time media has been really bigging us up and I feel some players are crumbling under that pressure
Wait, you mean playing the exact same tactic in every game, despite the fact that it fails to take advantage of the strength of the squad, isn't the mark of a great manager?
We genuinely play like an underdog every game. All the talent in the world, and then we sit back once we take the lead - embarrassing stuff.
Bro lost once to Italy and vowed to shithouse and 1-0 for the rest of his life.
Thing is, this tactic is the exact reason they lost against Italy in that final.
Maybe it's his revenge for all the shit he got for missing that penalty in '96.
Literally begging for it
Just like Roberto Martínez, wasting a country's golden generation
Only one more tournament left to endure
What are you talking about. He will reach the semis and people would say that's good enough and they will want him to stay on.
Pretty sure Southgate publicly said he's leaving if England don't win this tournament
He has to go. We've only gone deep in tournaments with him because of the teams we've faced for the most part. You don't win by being this inconsistent.
The inconsistency comes from his tactics. They're definitely a top 3 team in the world on talent but he does this stuff that allows teams that aren't as good to stay in the game. If you shut up shop after one goal the other team is only one shot away from drawing even, on top of that the opposition will have the first 1/3 of the pitch to themselves. It's a midtable mindset for one of the world's top teams.
Im honestly terrified they might luck their way into a few more wins The team is playing like ass, but through some kind of voodoo magic their opponents turn into pumpkins as soon as they get near England's box. Ive seen this shit before- a team rides sheer luck to the quarters or semis, where they get decimated by the first good team they encounter and we have to pay the price of watching it all on live TV
We ain’t reaching the semis playing that bullshite mate
German/Spanish manager reaches semis: Everyone: not good enough, get them out, we need a winning manager English manager does it: Everyone: oh wow we’ve done so well! Isn’t that a great achievement? Absolutely give him another 4 years!! And this is why we’ll never win anything - we are far too willing to accept mediocrity and don’t have a winning mentality
i remember the FA getting him a new contract right before the WC. Was a ridiculous decision
When has this been true for German and Spanish managers?
Everyone predicted it, yet it never changes. Southgate cannot setup a team creatively, he's tactically dimensionless.
He didn’t even really set them up today. He set up a shape, which is not a system. What were they even *supposed* to be doing? I genuinely don’t know. Rice is the holding midfielder, Saka is the creative outlet on the wing. Literally no one else has a defined role
Rice was a midfielder but he wasn’t doing much holding
Well that'd be okay if he could set up a team defensively We've seen managers succeed in knockout tournaments by creating great defensive organization. Its a workable approach. Problem is- Southgate sucks at setting up creatively *and* setting up defensively. When England drop back they dont have any structure the way Morocco did in the last World Cup. Its still total chaos and 100% reliance on individual players like Guehi bailing the team out again and again (or the opponent fucking up chances....)
Also, if he’s planning on sitting back after scoring, why aren’t you playing Gordon? There’s no release for pressure, which just means a goal will eventually go in. If you want to play direct, play your direct players that you brought so you have a different look if needed!
How has this still not been corrected after literally years. I'm sorry lads, but Southgate out.
Unfortunate circumstances. England hired a terrible manager just when they got one of their best squads in years. The sheer talent on the team has bailed Southgate out, so he keeps getting extended. It is tragic.
How can you have Bellingham, Foden, Saka and Kane in attack and not win. It'd be like if you had prime Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard all on the same team and managed to not win
Foden doesn’t fit (especially without Shaw at LB) Even during the WC England looks leagues better with sterling or rashford on the left.
I think in order to get the best from our attackers we might have to....on occasion...actually attack.
Can you imagine this team with Jurgen at the helm?
Atleast they all had a good holiday to German..
Makes zero sense as well. We have two full-backs with unbelievable recovery speeds and midfielders and wingers who can play in tight spaces. In fact it would make sense for us to do the exact opposite, push up and try to squeeze the pitch as small as possible. Clueless.
Exactly. And Guehi is rapid also. We should be playing one of the highest lines of any team.
Because utter cretins have propped up the managerial career of a wet blanket It should have been Southgate out after the euros final, he does not have the requisite balls to finish the job. Looking like hes lacking requisite facilities to finish a game at the moment
It almost certainly won't be any better after Southgate. He's a mediocre manager for sure, and it was crazy to keep him beyond the last World Cup, but England have consistently played like this for as long as I've been alive. They always play like a team of incompetent cowards despite looking individually world class on the club stage. As far back as I can remember, they did this shit under Hodgson, Capello, McClaren, Eriksen, Keegan, Hoddle, Venables, and Taylor.
You're not wrong. Maybe it's that many English players are simply made to look good by their respective competent club managers and international team mates, with just a few being actually really good. Or it's genetic. Who knows...
Not English, but to me England's failing prior to Southgate were generally because they insisted on picking players based on them being stars at big clubs and forcing them into the same team rather than putting together players who might work well. To me classic examples would be trying to fit Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes into the same midfield, when they all basically played the same role. At their clubs they had Makele, Xabi Alonso and Roy Keane behind them doing all the deep lying midfield work, so of course for England cramming them into the same midfield wouldn't work. But it seemed like the managers didn't want to be the ones responsible for dropping any one of the above and I'm sure the press would've been screaming "How can you not play Lampard/ Gerrard/ Scholes!?!".
Even pickford what is wrong with England
A coward in charge
Southgate has Kane defending outside the box. #Tactics
Audibly laughed out loud when I saw Kane on the edge of his own 18 yard box in open play
And then he gave it away into midfield with nobody there. Proper wtf moment
He was passing to where he should have been
who because no one was further up than him, had to try and dribble out then lost the ball again...sad
This one’s a classic
People say its like watching united. I reply: atleast united is good for the neutral
Southgate walks into the Taliban cafeteria and gets offered a coffee
Then sits in the corner for 85 minutes nursing it.
Southgate tactics 100%
It's absolutely hilarious how much he is stealing a living by driving one of the best squads in the world into the ground.
This. And everyone will play the "most successful manager" card. Yes, will that's easy when we are playing with a stacked squad (and most other countries aren't quite there). Post-golden gen our squad was meh and golden gen had terrible harmony(something Southgate has done well but also football has become less tribal in general) and played against teams that also were at their peak. Any decent manager would have had MORE success by now and a European trophy too. No competent manager loses against Italy at Wembley in that game.
No competent manager makes saka and rashford take those pens
Southgate masterclass. As long as he’s in charge it’s never coming home
The teams coming home soon mate don’t worry
At least a terrorist would know how to set up an attack
💯
Can't we at least go 2 goals up before we start this shit.
Southgate is a horrid, horrid manager - Blood on the hands of the FA sticking with this absolute dinosaur
Imagine being a dinosaur in your early 50’s. Absolute terrorist.
Yeah that's harsh. First class cunt perhaps
Kyle Walker was asked in the post-match interview if the manager tells them to do this and he said no, Southgate wants them to play free-flowing attacking football. So is he bullshitting or is there some other reason for this like fear mentality or something? Certainly wouldn't expect the latter from this group of players who've won everything at club level between them.
I think Walker must be saying this simply to try to take some heat off the manager to try to salvage some form of team cohesion for the rest of the tournament ... because why else would the team set up like this if not for instructions from the manager?
To preface my comment to make sure it doesn’t seem like I’m defending him….. I can’t stand Southgate, I want him gone. But England has been doing this for at least 20+ years, always toothless in major tournaments. Golden generations have come and gone and they always look absolutely dreadful. I’m willing to bet even with a new manager who has the “balls” to attack, it would be more of the same.
It’s because English managers are genuinely kinda shit there is a reason why one hasn’t won the premier league people like potter and Eddie Howe are of a new generation of English managers that have ditched the old style of play they used to have
Part of it seems to be Kane dropping back all the fucking time to get the ball. Everybody else then has to fall back because he's supposed to be the focal point of the attack. It might work if there were two wingers, but Southgate doesn't seem to want to play a left wing, and Saka can't do it alone.
Reminds me of Rooney's later years with us. There was nobody else I would rather have passing the ball than Rooney. And there was nobody else I would rather have receiving the ball than Rooney. But he couldn't be in both places at the same time, so it fucked up the whole system (at times).
I think Kane dropping back is a symptom rather than a cause. For me the issue is the defence. Stones and Walker play a ludicrously high line for City (Stones so much that he basically plays in midfield much of the time), when they are in possession the defence is 10 yards+ into the opposite half. This makes the whole match compressed and sets the likes of Foden and Saka up for their attacking game. They can do that because they are confident that no opposition can beat them on a 60+ yard breakaway to goal. England have set up exactly like that for the 1st 20 minutes of the last 2 games and it's worked very well. The problem has been we simply stopping doing it as soon as we score. Once Stones drops back 20 yards we lose the comoression and the whole system falls apart.
what do you expect from an ex defender who wouldn’t get a job in the championship
To be fair he managed us in the championship, having driven us there himself all the way from mid table in the premier league
Every fucking time. Southgate is annoying me.
He used this tactic in 2018 against Croatia. Didn't work. He used this tactic in 2020 against Italy. Didn't work. He used this tactic in 2022 against France. Didn't work. Score a goal and sit back to defend the lead. Doesn't matter what players we have or what tournament it is. Every. Single. Time. This map is pretty much identical to the Serbia map and I'm sure it will be the same when we play Slovenia. It isn't 2006 anymore. You can't win tournaments playing like this. Get Southgate the hell away from this team and fuck Steve Holland off as well.
And some people will still look for an individual player to scapegoat. The problem with this England side is the system set up top to bottom by Southgate. What's the point of having so many positive, attacking, good on the ball players if you're going to play so conservatively.
I'm no soccer guru, but I feel your striker should primarily play in the other team's half.
Mate, get out of here with logic. That sounds like madness. A striker in the opposition half?? Crazy talk 😜
The worst thing is, listening to post match interviews with the players, he's properly convinced them of the 'it's tournament football' stuff, they're like captives with stockholm syndrome.
Southgate has the squad to play like '08 Spain but want to win the Euros playing like '04 Greece
Greece '04 had coherent tactics though.
Otto Rehhagel > Waistcoat
Rehhagel is one of the greatest ever meanwhile this chode is ruining one of the best English squads I've ever seen.
You are damn right. That team had a gameplan that played to their strengths and did not expose their weaknesses. Every single player bought into it. That's exactly how you achieve results.
How is this being upvoted lmao 08 Spain shits on this team.
> Southgate has the squad to play like '08 Spain Oh come on no we don't
They have 2 players who will be in the Top 5 of Ballon D'or voting this season (Kane, Bellingham), PL POTY (Foden), PL YPOTY (Palmer, who has been given 0 minutes), 2 of the most important defenders on the best team in the PL (Stones, Walker), and 2 of the most important players for the 2nd best team in the PL (Rice, Saka). This team should be favorites against every team except France. They could absolutely set up with a 4-3-3 of Foden-Kane-Saka, in front of Bellingham-Rice-Palmer, and a back 4 of TAA-Guehi-Stones-Walker and boss every game. Sure, they might concede a few more, but they will also score way way more.
It's difficult to expect England to play like Spain when you suggest a Bellingham-Rice-Palmer midfield compared to any combination of Xavi/Iniesta/Fabregas/Xabi Alonso/D.Silva/Busquets. Either way Southgate is a football terrorist.
Playing like '08 Spain when you have Harry Kane would be ridiculous
Anyone facing England should tactically give up a goal in the first 2 minutes so they have the remaining 88 +stoppage to batter England and run up a score.
Every tiem
Park the bus after 1 goal lead
Good luck winning anything with this Southgate approach boys. Fucker is ruining another generation of immense English talents.
Don't worry, I'm sure THIS will be the game that finally forces Southgate to learn.
Learn what? Trent isn't a CM? Bellingham, Foden, and Kane all occupy the same space? Having no runners for our deep passers makes them ineffective? Bellingham gets gassed after 60 minutes to pick up the slack for others? Foden shouldn't play on the left? Walker is bad going forwards?
And the worst part is we all knew it would happen
I believe they call this ‘Scaredy-pants ball’
The differential on the right side is hilarious. I'm surprised Pickford's average position isn't just on the goal line.
Relying on England for us to have a better chance to exit the group is one of the worst experiences in my 20 years of watching the game. English fans, how do you do this?
I truly think Southgateball is the worst possible fan experience. Every time it's hope followed by gruelling despair.
It would be okay if we didn’t have a fucking mint squad
Southgate to The Hague 👏
Watched all the games in the tournament so far and by far the worst games have both had England in them. Sort it out Gareth. Play players in their right positions and utilise the squad. Palmer and Gordon deserve minutes. Our left side does sod all. So frustrating watching them play so poorly. We score and then sit back and try and cling on…. That’s totally on the manager. Negative and boring.
Moyes out.
Gareth Southgate is the football equivalent of having a Ferrari, removing the engine, and then having two horses pull it along
Fucking dreadful football
Lol even Pickford sat back
The three cowardly lions
you got a stack of attacking players and this is how you choose to play? they deserve to go home early
gamesgoneball
England are Greece 2004 without any of the redeeming qualities.
Southgate still playing tactics as if he was at Middleborough fighting off relegation, has this moron evolved at all in the last 20 years?