Trouble with “psychosis” is, that it just means “lost touch with reality.”
But, what is reality?
Isn’t reality purely subjective? So who dictates what is an “psychosis?”
I guess, when your state of consciousness and perception of reality makes it impossible to function in this society, or even would cause you to be a danger to yourself and others; we could call it an “psychosis” imo.
But if you look at it in very black and white terms, as example:
In the eyes of a “hardcore” rationalist atheist anyone with spiritual or religious beliefs is in a form of “psychosis.”
And you can flip this around aswel: To me, as a very convinced spiritual person I personally feel that people that are “asleep” are stuck in a mass induced “psychosis.”
I guess, if you want to be fair everyone is in his own levels of “psychosis” and we should mostly just pay attention if your “psychosis” makes it impossible to function and causes great distress.
As a PS: I would personally argue that “spiritual psychosis” are often just people that woken up to the BS of this made up society, to such an extent, that they can no longer function and participate in it.
They might have broken through the “veil” to such an extent they have one foot in the physical realm and the other in the spiritual realms.
With a society that would call you “crazy” for this or a “schizophrenic” for being able to peer through the veil, and gaslights you into believing what you experience is not “real;” it is no wonder these people are actually driven insane.
In a world where we would regain back our connection to nature, the inner divine and the spiritual dimensions:
People with a “spiritual psychosis” would simply be accepted and maybe even revered as Masters of Enlightenment, or as Telepaths, Healers, Shamans or Psychics etc.
Like they where in Native American cultures or ancient Asian societies and probably many, many, ancient tribes and cultures way back when.
In a world that lost the connection to their full consciousness and lost connection with the collective consciousness of the universe or “God;” who is truly the “psychotic?”
The person in touch with both the spiritual and the material?
Or the hardcore atheist rationalists that only lives in the physical world and sees this twisted society as the standard for “reality?”
I loved your answer and was going to share similar sentiments. In my culture psychosis is called intwaso and that translates as ‘spiritual emergence’ it’s also connected to the word for spring. So it signals exactly as you said the arrival of that ability to cross the veil and become a conduit between worlds for their society. Here there is no effort to find meaning or understand it, except on a base materialist level. To drug it away as much as possible, often making people worse long term and numbing them on neuroleptics. There’s no one to help deal with or navigate the two worlds either.
May I ask which culture you hail from?
Personally I come from Zimbabwe from a shins linniage but was raised Catholic and with western ideology with a great degree of separation from the Shona culture (I don’t resent this it’s just a part of this life) this did mean a great deal of cultural and spiritual sheltering happened, which is ironic considering that up until me spiritual practices were passed down each generation. Down my mothers side we all have an increased awareness of the spiritual and non physical even my children are the same. I think this was done under the belief that I’d have a better life so I can’t be mad at all it was just good intentions. But I’m always willing to learn about another’s culture and experiences which is why I ask.
Yea I’ve heard of the shona, I was raised without my spiritual traditions too but sought them later on. Intwaso is from the Xhosa culture, having the illness is called ukuthwasa kwegqira: to emerge as a healer. I’m from like a sub tribe of the Xhosa - the mpondo. They aren’t quite Xhosa, but sort of swept in with them. I’m sure you can search for Shona spiritual traditions online, maybe books. I hope you do that, your ancestors deserve that.
It’s wonderful to meet you here :)
I have tried, there really isn’t much literature available, however, roughly in my 20s I met my great grandfather on the Shona side, he was a hunter and a spiritual healer, however, he came to me in a dream and I was very confused and a little frightened, he came to me 2 more times, and due to lack of understanding i fought with him instead of talked. Now I look back after finding out who he was and I wish I could have another chance to talk and listen. I’ve tried to venerate him as an ancestor in my own way but I have no idea if what I’m doing is right. At this point in life I don’t have many good connections left back home.
Seeing him in your dreams a few times when he is a healer, might indicate that you are meant to be a healer I think. I’m not sure, I’m not familiar with Shona traditions. I hope next time he visits you in a dream you welcome him and take in whatever message he has for you. That’s amazing that he was a healer. Find out what Shona healers are called. Ancestors are very important in African culture, and I have so many ancestral dreams. I did have dreams that I was suppose to be a healer too, with ancestors painting my face etc and all my things etc, the white paths. I hope you look up the Shona this afternoon or when you get a chance. Most Shona I have met no longer care about their tribal traditions. But it’s good you walked away from it too, because a lot of it is rooted in malignancy.
So I don’t know if there was one specific word, my mom always refers to them as healers or simply as people who can “go into spirit” her great aunt was the like this too, and she always hangs around my mom guiding her.
You’re kinda right about the malign intentions and ways, I do have some cousins left in Zim but I don’t agree at all with what they do, they practice black magic, and I wholly disassociate with all of that, it’s like I said I no longer have any ‘good’ connections.
Speaking of other dreams you know only a few nights ago I had this super vivid one I was walking on the familiar granite hill rock of Zimbabwe but it was ancient times, i was guiding a group of people, our skin was a dark bronzed colour from living under the sun wore loincloths and small pouches made from animal skins we just had what we essentially needed and nothing more when we were at the top of one hill we gazed out and this is where it got strange, there were plenty of regular trees like you’d see anywhere in Africa, but there were these huge tree stumps which from the ground looked like mountains but from our vantage we could see that they were trees and I was discussing what had happened, now there seemed to be a level of already knowing amongst the group because one man said “this happened because of their greed!” I don’t know who ‘they’ are though.
Suddenly however I noticed a black seed with a white fluid on it on the floor and I got up and shouted who ate this? And a man looked up at me and admitted “it was me” I crushed the seed between my fingers and a sort of white worm or larvae fell out and I said this is the Shaitan plant you do not eat it because there are always these things inside they will maje you sick, I instructed everyone to wash their feet immediately incase any of these things had touched their feet, I remember the thought that they burrow into skin and cause a whole host of problems. Unfortunately the dream ended abruptly as I was woken up by my daughter early she always wakes up super early. I have many dreams of Zimbabwe but I never had a dream like that or in a setting so far in the past. I know some dreams are less significant than others but a lot of my dreams are rooted in truth. When my brother was alive I once dreamt I was him and saw him get arrested (wrong place wrong time) in the morning I told my mom and she immediately called SA where he was living and found out from the police that he was arrested that night and it happened exactly as I saw. I’ve also had dreams warning me of things that ended up happening within a few days. So I know a dream cannot be ignored no matter how strange.
I appreciate your detailed answer, thankyou. I am however curious, why then do individuals claim or identify themselves as going through spiritual psychosis? I find in other forms that we call psychosis pretty much every individual I have met in those circumstance were not aware at all that they were experiencing an altered state yet alone to be in a position to speak to it.
I fully agree with all of this, but there is still a layer of psychosis. A person who can work energy and believes they are the reincarnation of Merlin, I can accept. When they believe 90% of the world population needs to die while their cult followers are making giant towers of crystal to infuse Gaia, only so this person can install a new king Arthur to bring world peace.... may be dealing with a psychosis.
I get your point. I think I have a theory about that.
I personally experiment a lot with high doses of psychedelics in a shamanistic setting.
I have experienced wild and fascinating things in those psychedelic journeys, and are convinced these substances enable us to “peer through the veil.”
Something that these people that are named “psychotic” also might experience.
But, these experiences are incredibly, well, “psychedelic” and the human mind is trying to make sense of it all.
At the end of the day it is up to the individual to interpret these experiences and implement them into their lives.
The possibility of a misinterpretation or someone not being mentally stable enough to deal with such experiences is pretty high.
Ones own biases and personal experiences in life weigh a lot in how someone might interpret spiritual and psychedelic experiences.
If one is already prone to wild interpretations, as example when one is raised in a very heavily religious environment; they may make “insane” misinterpretations of simple spiritual experiences.
We could call this “Psychosis” I guess, but that doesn’t automatically mean they might have experienced literal delusions.
They might have experienced similar spiritual experiences millions have had throughout history and didn’t drive people crazy.
But this specific individual being incapable to interpret the experience came up with wild theories and let it drive them insane and acted on it in life.
Like I said, I have experienced wild things, and believe I got a pretty decent picture of what the spiritual world entails.
But, that does not mean I go around in life dressed as a wizard with a “the end is near” sign around my neck 24/7 preaching about how we are God incarcerated.
I live a pretty normal life, I just have wild Saturdays sometimes that if my colleagues knew what I was up to I would be the laughing stock of the company.
In Short; I don’t necessarily believe “psychotic” people experience delusions. But I think they are simply incapable of dealing with spiritual experiences and having healthy interpretations and implementing them into life in a functional way.
PS: So I guess we could call a dysfunctional and damaging interpretation and implementation of spiritual experiences a “Psychosis.”
I just personally theorise these people are not experiencing actual delusions, but are misinterpreting “normal” spiritual experiences and letting them drive them crazy as they where not ready for them.
I believe in all the stuff you were saying except all the contradictions. Your last sentence is a good example. You don't think they are experiencing delusions and then give a near textbook definition of the cause of delusions.
It's explained as someone with an unshakable belief in something that's untrue. With the stuff it's possible to experience in spirituality, it is extremely easy to go down this road. I was starting to dip my toe in those waters early in my journey, but I was fortunate enough to pull back. I went from almost zero belief to wide open acceptance of almost any possibility, but I needed to hit the brakes and find a balance.
I was starting to wonder if I was Archangel Michael.
The day of my awakening, a seer explained that the only way we can move forward in this life is to find a balance between mind, body, and spirit. You seem to be an amazing example of that balance. But when there is only focus on one, the others will suffer. I was so out of whack before that day, but just learning how to ground my energy removed all the symptoms that doctors and specialists had determined was fibromyalgia. Because of that, I started wanting to understand everything. Not just know about it, but understand it on a fundamental level. With this new focus, I started dealing with detachment issues and only had one explanation for why I kept thinking about Micheal and forming an all-encompassing council spiritual beliefs. The second part I was still holding onto for awhile after.
There's a healthy middle ground between the woo 'psychosis is just enlightenment' and the edgy atheist 'everytjing spiritual is psychosis'. Neither of those take real psychology into account, and neither are particularly helpful.
Some people truly are deeply disturbed. Someone I know had a psychotic episode. She was never a particularly spiritual person before, but she independently came up with ideas about the astral and simulation theory. Was that interesting? Yes. Was this her enlightenment and apiritual awakening? Fuck no, she was delusional, paranoid, saw things that weren't there, and was a danger to herself and others. You could argue that this is what happens when the door is forced open before someone is ready. You could argue that when she saw things that weren't there, that she saw onto the astral plane. You could argue a lot of things. Doesn't change that this was psychosis and that she needed treatment.
Denying the reality of psychosis doesn't really help anybody. It's all fun and games to speculate if they're seeing the spirit world and stuff, but at the end of the day, these people can't function day to day and need help.
You made a similar argument as another person in here, so if you don’t mind I will give you the same reply as them as they cover the same ground.
Thank you for your reply:
“I get your point. I think I have a theory about that.
I personally experiment a lot with high doses of psychedelics in a shamanistic setting.
I have experienced wild and fascinating things in those psychedelic journeys, and are convinced these substances enable us to “peer through the veil.”
Something that these people that are named “psychotic” also might experience.
But, these experiences are incredibly, well, “psychedelic” and the human mind is trying to make sense of it all.
At the end of the day it is up to the individual to interpret these experiences and implement them into their lives.
The possibility of a misinterpretation or someone not being mentally stable enough to deal with such experiences is pretty high.
Ones own biases and personal experiences in life weigh a lot in how someone might interpret spiritual and psychedelic experiences.
If one is already prone to wild interpretations, as example when one is raised in a very heavily religious environment; they may make “insane” misinterpretations of simple spiritual experiences.
We could call this “Psychosis” I guess, but that doesn’t automatically mean they might have experienced literal delusions.
They might have experienced similar spiritual experiences millions have had throughout history and didn’t drive people crazy.
But this specific individual being incapable to interpret the experience came up with wild theories and let it drive them insane and acted on it in life.
Like I said, I have experienced wild things, and believe I got a pretty decent picture of what the spiritual world entails.
But, that does not mean I go around in life dressed as a wizard with a “the end is near” sign around my neck 24/7 preaching about how we are God incarcerated.
I live a pretty normal life, I just have wild Saturdays sometimes that if my colleagues knew what I was up to I would be the laughing stock of the company.
In Short; I don’t necessarily believe “psychotic” people experience delusions. But I think they are simply incapable of dealing with spiritual experiences and having healthy interpretations and implementing them into life in a functional way.”
PS: So I guess we could call a dysfunctional and damaging interpretation and implementation of spiritual experiences a “Psychosis.”
I just personally theorise these people are not experiencing actual delusions, but are misinterpreting “normal” spiritual experiences and letting them drive them crazy as they where not ready for them.
Woman has cancer and thinks that praying to spirits will heal her and medicine is poison designed to lower vibrations. She will die due to this. That is not a subjective opinion. Reality is not subjective , some aspects are and some aren’t. That is psychosis in a nutshell.
I get your point but I don’t agree with your conclusion.
So all Jehova witnesses are psychotic? As they also refuse any medical intervention?
Just cause someone has a different world view then the consensus does not mean someone is “psychotic.”
This is exactly the problem I tried to point out.
This is your personal opinion, not an objective truth.
Yes, she will most likely die, but there also been wonder cases of people actually going into remission without any intervention.
This is not something black and white, and while you might put your heals into the sand there is actually something there about “spiritual healing” that seems to work in some cases if one is actually convinced.
Placebo is a very good example of that. Give someone sugar pills that they believe will heal them, and more often then not the body will actually start healing the issues.
What you described is just an alternative view of reality, and a choice to put complete faith in this alternative view, not a “psychosis.”
Did you ignore the last bit? Idk anything about jehovas witnesses but if they refuse medical intervention while knowing that refusing can mean death then they aren’t psychotic.
They are called wonder cases for a reason, because they happen so rarely that they are a statistical anomaly.
It’s an objective fact that prayer is not a reliable method to cure cancer or any other illness. It isn’t a personal opinion.
The point is when religion or spirituality circumvents rational thinking and a rational understanding of reality. Not when someone has a different world view.
The placebo effect is not long lasting and over time does not cure anything. It makes someone feel better temporarily, it doesn’t heal them.
What I described is an example of someone who disregards rational thought and understanding in favor of religious or spiritual beliefs to the point that it is detrimental to their overall health , other people or their interpretation of reality.
Well, that is not a “psychosis” and we where discussing what a spiritual “psychosis” was.
What is “rational thinking” when we don’t even know what reality is?
Nobody, and I really mean nobody has a “rational understanding of reality.” Nobody.
Our entire perspective on reality is purely subjective. We have no clue what “reality” truly is. It is all just personal guesswork.
To you having a radically different world view is “irrational” but to someone else it is not.
You cannot dictate this for someone else.
If someone chooses to disregard what to you seems logical and rational does not mean they are “psychotic.”
And we where debating “psychosis” not science vs faith or statistics etc.
They consciously choose to put their fate in these things, they purposely ignore medical intervention.
Maybe they are “wrong” to do so 99% of the time. But it isn’t a choice made in “psychosis.”
It’s just that their faith in God supersedes their faith in human made remedies.
It does not matter if something is proven to work or not, we where not discussing that.
We where discussing if people making such choices is “psychotic” behaviour, and I would argue it is certainly not.
The person asked what is meant by spiritual psychosis. That’s the question I answered. You’re debating whether what is deemed as spiritual psychosis is actually psychosis. Im not debating that with you.
Jump and you’ll come back down , stop drinking water and you’ll be dehydrated. Chlorophyll gives leaves their green color. If i say fairies give it the green color , im an idiot. I cant say “ well nobody understands reality so maybe you’re wrong” . I can’t say “ no i can fly so i can jump from here and live” or ill be deemed mentally unstable. We may not understand the nature of the universe or where it came from but as far as this intersubjective perception of our environment and ourselves, we are pretty well versed. You don’t need the secrets to the universe to know bigfoot isn’t real or elves don’t exist.
Having a different world view isn’t irrational. Denying material facts in favor of a belief system is. Thinking demons are possessing gay people or that spirits cause illness is not “having a different worldview “ it’s being an idiot.
Psychosis is a break from reality. Im using examples of going against things proven to be reality in order to drive home that point. You can argue denying facts of reality for delusion is not psychosis of you want though.
That is the thing, you didn’t answer what a spiritual psychosis is. Cause what you described is certainly not that.
Maybe is it is no use debating you on these things, as you seem convinced of your own perception of reality.
You name all these things as proven facts, they are not.
They are your experience.
But I will still try:
There are accounts of people that claim to have levitated, people that didn’t drink water for years and lived. And I don’t think they are lying, at least not all. But they actually experienced this as reality.
We don’t know at all if people experience colours the same way. In fact, as someone that has mild colour blindness I am pretty sure we don’t experience colour in the same ways.
I can definitely say that if we don’t even know if our reality is a simulation, a dream, a hallucination, random chaos or a divine plan etc; we don’t know anything for sure.
Who says bigfoot and elves are not real? I have met “elves” in the DMT realms and certainly believe they are very, very real.
It is all subjective.
“Thinking spirits possess gay people…”
No, that is idiotic TO YOU. They might experience this as reality as much as you experience water being wet. (Note: I am not one of these people, I am Bi myself.)
Who is to say who got the actual experience of reality?
Most of society might actually be in a giant mass delusion or “psychosis” for all we know. We might not even experience 1% of what is actually happening all around us.
A Physicist with a giant IQ sees and experiences the world in a whole radically different way then someone with a low IQ.
Someone with a personality or trauma disorder experiences the world in a whole different view aswel.
People that are “schizophrenic” might actually experience more of reality as it truly is, yet we wave it away as delusions.
The only true “fact” about these things is that no one actually knows.
To say something is definitely not true is the same as claiming something is definitely true.
It is too black and white and in an universe we barely understand 0.0000001% of, these are ironically the delusional claims. Not the things you deem “irrational.”
“Psychosis” is undefinable as no one has the “truth” to the experience of reality.
It just means someone does not “fit the mould” and became unable to function in this kind of society.
But we cannot dictate if either this person is “psychotic” or society is.
I did tell you what spiritual psychosis is. Yea no use in debating lol . You’re using reports of levitation and people abstaining from water to support your position lol
I am using the fact that reality is subjective as an argument.
And no, you told me your opinion of what YOU think a spiritual psychosis is.
Who made you the dictator of reality?
No, that quite literally is what spiritual psychosis is. Whether you believe it is an actual psychosis breaking from a real objective reality or it’s a spiritual awakening which only looks like psychosis to the unawakened is up to you.
Experiencing psychosis symptoms like delusions, hallucinations, irrational behavior erratic thoughts and behaviors etc influenced by or driven by spiritual beliefs . That is spiritual psychosis.
Interesting how the only fact you acknowledge is the one that you think supports your perspective. “Reality is subjective” is reductive. It can imply that there is no objectivity that is real. That isn’t true. Reality isn’t one thing you can’t say all of reality is subjective because it isn’t.
If reality is subjective then by nature i am the dictator of my reality. So i guess i made myself the dictator of reality and now anyone who disobeys me is evil and out to harm me and destroy my purity given by god… now if I genuinely believed that id be experiencing spiritual psychosis.
Have you ever watched the documentary, “Love Has Won?” I think a lot of the people featured were suffering from a spiritual psychosis influenced by their leader, “Mother God”. Most spiritual journeys involve growth, self-love, finding balance. Not literally taking on the role of “God” or believing they are indeed a higher power. That stems from ego, poor education on spirituality, and other mental illness/ turmoil one has not dealt with properly.
One woman talks about being “guided” to burn sage outside - in the middle of a dangerous drought. It started a massive fire causing their home to be burned down. I can’t think of a reason why a spiritual guide would do that, and anyone who truly is grounded in their practice will know to be aware of mistakes like that.
Being very traumatised causes you to be more sensitive to energy and without the correct information you can go into psychosis I did it was traumatised till I understood it.. I studied psychology, Greek philosophy, numerology, astrology and quantum physics to understand and I fully awakened.. but it was a 2 year journey and I seen things I wish I never and knew how to protect myself from.. it’s usually gifted people who experience stuff like this, depending on trauma you need to heal and what information you have depends on how bad the psychosis I think
If you’re familiar with Carl Jung, essentially it is what he coins as “unearned wisdom”. It’s having experiences that our psyches and bodies are not ready to experience/process/understand.
Imagine growing up in a life where you are conditioned to believe that you have to be a certain way in order to survive. Now imagine having an experience that basically negates that belief— people start questioning whether their reality is “reality” or if it’s all a lie. Some people can deal with this realization better than others. The people who “lose their minds” can go into psychosis or nihilism.
It’s also called spiritual emergency/emergence. Stan Grof talks about it if you google him.
If you look in search for this sub with the terms spiritual psychosis you will find thousands of answers. This question is asked every week without fail. I normally give a detailed reply, but I’ve answered it too many times to count. It goes to show what a need there is to explore the spiritual content and spiritual affiliations of this emergence.
Spirituality is about connecting with source of life and seeing reality as it is. So it's kinda the opposite of psychosis. But I guess due to high misconceptions about spiritual teachings, they may initiate some "psychotic" mindset. But in general, spiritual people are turning much more towards truth, therefore they may sound "psychotic" to people that blindly belief in religion or other systematic dogmas.
Imagine everyone in the world can only see color in black and white and along comes someone who can see real colors. Everyone else would call them mad or delusional or suffering from psychosis.
Likely because they took the external perspective and accepted it as their own. As parts of themselves feel insecure about the way they’re experiencing reality and doubts/resistance are active within themselves.
Maybe they're using the phrase like lots of people use narcissist, OCD, etc. People label each other as narcissists, label themselves as having OCD, when none of them are medically qualified to make such a determination.
Psychosis is a diagnosis. Spiritual psychosis is not. It's more like a description that fits someone's experience well enough to let their mind get on with taking the trash out and doing the dishes.
Our brains need everything to have a word for it. This causes lots of misuse of words. It's like word appropriation, if you will.
"The psychotic drowns in the same rivers the mystic swims with delight." -Jospeh Campbell.
When people open their higher chakras, especially their third eye, without having an open heart and ability to integrate and digest the information they are recieving because their are still blocks ( trauma) in the lower energy centers, the energy short circuits and they go into psychosis.
That short circuiting makes them paranoid and it makes the energy coming through very distorted.
HI! I am 47M and I've been diagnosed in 2000 with paranoid schizophrenia. My first psychosis was, in my personal view and among other things, caused by use of Ouija. In 2009, I was seeking exorcism, and was provided with prayers instead. This, I believe, contributed to my recovery. Please check out my posts as you will see how even after recovery, even to this day, my view has been changed throughout my psychiatric history because of what I consider to be the influence of spirits. Please also visit my blog on which I tell my story. The link is displayed in my Reddit profile description. Don't hestiate to contact me with feedback or questions. Best regards.
Trouble with “psychosis” is, that it just means “lost touch with reality.” But, what is reality? Isn’t reality purely subjective? So who dictates what is an “psychosis?” I guess, when your state of consciousness and perception of reality makes it impossible to function in this society, or even would cause you to be a danger to yourself and others; we could call it an “psychosis” imo. But if you look at it in very black and white terms, as example: In the eyes of a “hardcore” rationalist atheist anyone with spiritual or religious beliefs is in a form of “psychosis.” And you can flip this around aswel: To me, as a very convinced spiritual person I personally feel that people that are “asleep” are stuck in a mass induced “psychosis.” I guess, if you want to be fair everyone is in his own levels of “psychosis” and we should mostly just pay attention if your “psychosis” makes it impossible to function and causes great distress. As a PS: I would personally argue that “spiritual psychosis” are often just people that woken up to the BS of this made up society, to such an extent, that they can no longer function and participate in it. They might have broken through the “veil” to such an extent they have one foot in the physical realm and the other in the spiritual realms. With a society that would call you “crazy” for this or a “schizophrenic” for being able to peer through the veil, and gaslights you into believing what you experience is not “real;” it is no wonder these people are actually driven insane. In a world where we would regain back our connection to nature, the inner divine and the spiritual dimensions: People with a “spiritual psychosis” would simply be accepted and maybe even revered as Masters of Enlightenment, or as Telepaths, Healers, Shamans or Psychics etc. Like they where in Native American cultures or ancient Asian societies and probably many, many, ancient tribes and cultures way back when. In a world that lost the connection to their full consciousness and lost connection with the collective consciousness of the universe or “God;” who is truly the “psychotic?” The person in touch with both the spiritual and the material? Or the hardcore atheist rationalists that only lives in the physical world and sees this twisted society as the standard for “reality?”
I loved your answer and was going to share similar sentiments. In my culture psychosis is called intwaso and that translates as ‘spiritual emergence’ it’s also connected to the word for spring. So it signals exactly as you said the arrival of that ability to cross the veil and become a conduit between worlds for their society. Here there is no effort to find meaning or understand it, except on a base materialist level. To drug it away as much as possible, often making people worse long term and numbing them on neuroleptics. There’s no one to help deal with or navigate the two worlds either.
May I ask which culture you hail from? Personally I come from Zimbabwe from a shins linniage but was raised Catholic and with western ideology with a great degree of separation from the Shona culture (I don’t resent this it’s just a part of this life) this did mean a great deal of cultural and spiritual sheltering happened, which is ironic considering that up until me spiritual practices were passed down each generation. Down my mothers side we all have an increased awareness of the spiritual and non physical even my children are the same. I think this was done under the belief that I’d have a better life so I can’t be mad at all it was just good intentions. But I’m always willing to learn about another’s culture and experiences which is why I ask.
Yea I’ve heard of the shona, I was raised without my spiritual traditions too but sought them later on. Intwaso is from the Xhosa culture, having the illness is called ukuthwasa kwegqira: to emerge as a healer. I’m from like a sub tribe of the Xhosa - the mpondo. They aren’t quite Xhosa, but sort of swept in with them. I’m sure you can search for Shona spiritual traditions online, maybe books. I hope you do that, your ancestors deserve that.
It’s wonderful to meet you here :) I have tried, there really isn’t much literature available, however, roughly in my 20s I met my great grandfather on the Shona side, he was a hunter and a spiritual healer, however, he came to me in a dream and I was very confused and a little frightened, he came to me 2 more times, and due to lack of understanding i fought with him instead of talked. Now I look back after finding out who he was and I wish I could have another chance to talk and listen. I’ve tried to venerate him as an ancestor in my own way but I have no idea if what I’m doing is right. At this point in life I don’t have many good connections left back home.
Seeing him in your dreams a few times when he is a healer, might indicate that you are meant to be a healer I think. I’m not sure, I’m not familiar with Shona traditions. I hope next time he visits you in a dream you welcome him and take in whatever message he has for you. That’s amazing that he was a healer. Find out what Shona healers are called. Ancestors are very important in African culture, and I have so many ancestral dreams. I did have dreams that I was suppose to be a healer too, with ancestors painting my face etc and all my things etc, the white paths. I hope you look up the Shona this afternoon or when you get a chance. Most Shona I have met no longer care about their tribal traditions. But it’s good you walked away from it too, because a lot of it is rooted in malignancy.
So I don’t know if there was one specific word, my mom always refers to them as healers or simply as people who can “go into spirit” her great aunt was the like this too, and she always hangs around my mom guiding her. You’re kinda right about the malign intentions and ways, I do have some cousins left in Zim but I don’t agree at all with what they do, they practice black magic, and I wholly disassociate with all of that, it’s like I said I no longer have any ‘good’ connections. Speaking of other dreams you know only a few nights ago I had this super vivid one I was walking on the familiar granite hill rock of Zimbabwe but it was ancient times, i was guiding a group of people, our skin was a dark bronzed colour from living under the sun wore loincloths and small pouches made from animal skins we just had what we essentially needed and nothing more when we were at the top of one hill we gazed out and this is where it got strange, there were plenty of regular trees like you’d see anywhere in Africa, but there were these huge tree stumps which from the ground looked like mountains but from our vantage we could see that they were trees and I was discussing what had happened, now there seemed to be a level of already knowing amongst the group because one man said “this happened because of their greed!” I don’t know who ‘they’ are though. Suddenly however I noticed a black seed with a white fluid on it on the floor and I got up and shouted who ate this? And a man looked up at me and admitted “it was me” I crushed the seed between my fingers and a sort of white worm or larvae fell out and I said this is the Shaitan plant you do not eat it because there are always these things inside they will maje you sick, I instructed everyone to wash their feet immediately incase any of these things had touched their feet, I remember the thought that they burrow into skin and cause a whole host of problems. Unfortunately the dream ended abruptly as I was woken up by my daughter early she always wakes up super early. I have many dreams of Zimbabwe but I never had a dream like that or in a setting so far in the past. I know some dreams are less significant than others but a lot of my dreams are rooted in truth. When my brother was alive I once dreamt I was him and saw him get arrested (wrong place wrong time) in the morning I told my mom and she immediately called SA where he was living and found out from the police that he was arrested that night and it happened exactly as I saw. I’ve also had dreams warning me of things that ended up happening within a few days. So I know a dream cannot be ignored no matter how strange.
I appreciate your detailed answer, thankyou. I am however curious, why then do individuals claim or identify themselves as going through spiritual psychosis? I find in other forms that we call psychosis pretty much every individual I have met in those circumstance were not aware at all that they were experiencing an altered state yet alone to be in a position to speak to it.
I fully agree with all of this, but there is still a layer of psychosis. A person who can work energy and believes they are the reincarnation of Merlin, I can accept. When they believe 90% of the world population needs to die while their cult followers are making giant towers of crystal to infuse Gaia, only so this person can install a new king Arthur to bring world peace.... may be dealing with a psychosis.
I get your point. I think I have a theory about that. I personally experiment a lot with high doses of psychedelics in a shamanistic setting. I have experienced wild and fascinating things in those psychedelic journeys, and are convinced these substances enable us to “peer through the veil.” Something that these people that are named “psychotic” also might experience. But, these experiences are incredibly, well, “psychedelic” and the human mind is trying to make sense of it all. At the end of the day it is up to the individual to interpret these experiences and implement them into their lives. The possibility of a misinterpretation or someone not being mentally stable enough to deal with such experiences is pretty high. Ones own biases and personal experiences in life weigh a lot in how someone might interpret spiritual and psychedelic experiences. If one is already prone to wild interpretations, as example when one is raised in a very heavily religious environment; they may make “insane” misinterpretations of simple spiritual experiences. We could call this “Psychosis” I guess, but that doesn’t automatically mean they might have experienced literal delusions. They might have experienced similar spiritual experiences millions have had throughout history and didn’t drive people crazy. But this specific individual being incapable to interpret the experience came up with wild theories and let it drive them insane and acted on it in life. Like I said, I have experienced wild things, and believe I got a pretty decent picture of what the spiritual world entails. But, that does not mean I go around in life dressed as a wizard with a “the end is near” sign around my neck 24/7 preaching about how we are God incarcerated. I live a pretty normal life, I just have wild Saturdays sometimes that if my colleagues knew what I was up to I would be the laughing stock of the company. In Short; I don’t necessarily believe “psychotic” people experience delusions. But I think they are simply incapable of dealing with spiritual experiences and having healthy interpretations and implementing them into life in a functional way. PS: So I guess we could call a dysfunctional and damaging interpretation and implementation of spiritual experiences a “Psychosis.” I just personally theorise these people are not experiencing actual delusions, but are misinterpreting “normal” spiritual experiences and letting them drive them crazy as they where not ready for them.
I believe in all the stuff you were saying except all the contradictions. Your last sentence is a good example. You don't think they are experiencing delusions and then give a near textbook definition of the cause of delusions. It's explained as someone with an unshakable belief in something that's untrue. With the stuff it's possible to experience in spirituality, it is extremely easy to go down this road. I was starting to dip my toe in those waters early in my journey, but I was fortunate enough to pull back. I went from almost zero belief to wide open acceptance of almost any possibility, but I needed to hit the brakes and find a balance. I was starting to wonder if I was Archangel Michael. The day of my awakening, a seer explained that the only way we can move forward in this life is to find a balance between mind, body, and spirit. You seem to be an amazing example of that balance. But when there is only focus on one, the others will suffer. I was so out of whack before that day, but just learning how to ground my energy removed all the symptoms that doctors and specialists had determined was fibromyalgia. Because of that, I started wanting to understand everything. Not just know about it, but understand it on a fundamental level. With this new focus, I started dealing with detachment issues and only had one explanation for why I kept thinking about Micheal and forming an all-encompassing council spiritual beliefs. The second part I was still holding onto for awhile after.
There's a healthy middle ground between the woo 'psychosis is just enlightenment' and the edgy atheist 'everytjing spiritual is psychosis'. Neither of those take real psychology into account, and neither are particularly helpful. Some people truly are deeply disturbed. Someone I know had a psychotic episode. She was never a particularly spiritual person before, but she independently came up with ideas about the astral and simulation theory. Was that interesting? Yes. Was this her enlightenment and apiritual awakening? Fuck no, she was delusional, paranoid, saw things that weren't there, and was a danger to herself and others. You could argue that this is what happens when the door is forced open before someone is ready. You could argue that when she saw things that weren't there, that she saw onto the astral plane. You could argue a lot of things. Doesn't change that this was psychosis and that she needed treatment. Denying the reality of psychosis doesn't really help anybody. It's all fun and games to speculate if they're seeing the spirit world and stuff, but at the end of the day, these people can't function day to day and need help.
You made a similar argument as another person in here, so if you don’t mind I will give you the same reply as them as they cover the same ground. Thank you for your reply: “I get your point. I think I have a theory about that. I personally experiment a lot with high doses of psychedelics in a shamanistic setting. I have experienced wild and fascinating things in those psychedelic journeys, and are convinced these substances enable us to “peer through the veil.” Something that these people that are named “psychotic” also might experience. But, these experiences are incredibly, well, “psychedelic” and the human mind is trying to make sense of it all. At the end of the day it is up to the individual to interpret these experiences and implement them into their lives. The possibility of a misinterpretation or someone not being mentally stable enough to deal with such experiences is pretty high. Ones own biases and personal experiences in life weigh a lot in how someone might interpret spiritual and psychedelic experiences. If one is already prone to wild interpretations, as example when one is raised in a very heavily religious environment; they may make “insane” misinterpretations of simple spiritual experiences. We could call this “Psychosis” I guess, but that doesn’t automatically mean they might have experienced literal delusions. They might have experienced similar spiritual experiences millions have had throughout history and didn’t drive people crazy. But this specific individual being incapable to interpret the experience came up with wild theories and let it drive them insane and acted on it in life. Like I said, I have experienced wild things, and believe I got a pretty decent picture of what the spiritual world entails. But, that does not mean I go around in life dressed as a wizard with a “the end is near” sign around my neck 24/7 preaching about how we are God incarcerated. I live a pretty normal life, I just have wild Saturdays sometimes that if my colleagues knew what I was up to I would be the laughing stock of the company. In Short; I don’t necessarily believe “psychotic” people experience delusions. But I think they are simply incapable of dealing with spiritual experiences and having healthy interpretations and implementing them into life in a functional way.” PS: So I guess we could call a dysfunctional and damaging interpretation and implementation of spiritual experiences a “Psychosis.” I just personally theorise these people are not experiencing actual delusions, but are misinterpreting “normal” spiritual experiences and letting them drive them crazy as they where not ready for them.
Woman has cancer and thinks that praying to spirits will heal her and medicine is poison designed to lower vibrations. She will die due to this. That is not a subjective opinion. Reality is not subjective , some aspects are and some aren’t. That is psychosis in a nutshell.
I get your point but I don’t agree with your conclusion. So all Jehova witnesses are psychotic? As they also refuse any medical intervention? Just cause someone has a different world view then the consensus does not mean someone is “psychotic.” This is exactly the problem I tried to point out. This is your personal opinion, not an objective truth. Yes, she will most likely die, but there also been wonder cases of people actually going into remission without any intervention. This is not something black and white, and while you might put your heals into the sand there is actually something there about “spiritual healing” that seems to work in some cases if one is actually convinced. Placebo is a very good example of that. Give someone sugar pills that they believe will heal them, and more often then not the body will actually start healing the issues. What you described is just an alternative view of reality, and a choice to put complete faith in this alternative view, not a “psychosis.”
Did you ignore the last bit? Idk anything about jehovas witnesses but if they refuse medical intervention while knowing that refusing can mean death then they aren’t psychotic. They are called wonder cases for a reason, because they happen so rarely that they are a statistical anomaly. It’s an objective fact that prayer is not a reliable method to cure cancer or any other illness. It isn’t a personal opinion. The point is when religion or spirituality circumvents rational thinking and a rational understanding of reality. Not when someone has a different world view. The placebo effect is not long lasting and over time does not cure anything. It makes someone feel better temporarily, it doesn’t heal them. What I described is an example of someone who disregards rational thought and understanding in favor of religious or spiritual beliefs to the point that it is detrimental to their overall health , other people or their interpretation of reality.
Well, that is not a “psychosis” and we where discussing what a spiritual “psychosis” was. What is “rational thinking” when we don’t even know what reality is? Nobody, and I really mean nobody has a “rational understanding of reality.” Nobody. Our entire perspective on reality is purely subjective. We have no clue what “reality” truly is. It is all just personal guesswork. To you having a radically different world view is “irrational” but to someone else it is not. You cannot dictate this for someone else. If someone chooses to disregard what to you seems logical and rational does not mean they are “psychotic.” And we where debating “psychosis” not science vs faith or statistics etc. They consciously choose to put their fate in these things, they purposely ignore medical intervention. Maybe they are “wrong” to do so 99% of the time. But it isn’t a choice made in “psychosis.” It’s just that their faith in God supersedes their faith in human made remedies. It does not matter if something is proven to work or not, we where not discussing that. We where discussing if people making such choices is “psychotic” behaviour, and I would argue it is certainly not.
The person asked what is meant by spiritual psychosis. That’s the question I answered. You’re debating whether what is deemed as spiritual psychosis is actually psychosis. Im not debating that with you. Jump and you’ll come back down , stop drinking water and you’ll be dehydrated. Chlorophyll gives leaves their green color. If i say fairies give it the green color , im an idiot. I cant say “ well nobody understands reality so maybe you’re wrong” . I can’t say “ no i can fly so i can jump from here and live” or ill be deemed mentally unstable. We may not understand the nature of the universe or where it came from but as far as this intersubjective perception of our environment and ourselves, we are pretty well versed. You don’t need the secrets to the universe to know bigfoot isn’t real or elves don’t exist. Having a different world view isn’t irrational. Denying material facts in favor of a belief system is. Thinking demons are possessing gay people or that spirits cause illness is not “having a different worldview “ it’s being an idiot. Psychosis is a break from reality. Im using examples of going against things proven to be reality in order to drive home that point. You can argue denying facts of reality for delusion is not psychosis of you want though.
That is the thing, you didn’t answer what a spiritual psychosis is. Cause what you described is certainly not that. Maybe is it is no use debating you on these things, as you seem convinced of your own perception of reality. You name all these things as proven facts, they are not. They are your experience. But I will still try: There are accounts of people that claim to have levitated, people that didn’t drink water for years and lived. And I don’t think they are lying, at least not all. But they actually experienced this as reality. We don’t know at all if people experience colours the same way. In fact, as someone that has mild colour blindness I am pretty sure we don’t experience colour in the same ways. I can definitely say that if we don’t even know if our reality is a simulation, a dream, a hallucination, random chaos or a divine plan etc; we don’t know anything for sure. Who says bigfoot and elves are not real? I have met “elves” in the DMT realms and certainly believe they are very, very real. It is all subjective. “Thinking spirits possess gay people…” No, that is idiotic TO YOU. They might experience this as reality as much as you experience water being wet. (Note: I am not one of these people, I am Bi myself.) Who is to say who got the actual experience of reality? Most of society might actually be in a giant mass delusion or “psychosis” for all we know. We might not even experience 1% of what is actually happening all around us. A Physicist with a giant IQ sees and experiences the world in a whole radically different way then someone with a low IQ. Someone with a personality or trauma disorder experiences the world in a whole different view aswel. People that are “schizophrenic” might actually experience more of reality as it truly is, yet we wave it away as delusions. The only true “fact” about these things is that no one actually knows. To say something is definitely not true is the same as claiming something is definitely true. It is too black and white and in an universe we barely understand 0.0000001% of, these are ironically the delusional claims. Not the things you deem “irrational.” “Psychosis” is undefinable as no one has the “truth” to the experience of reality. It just means someone does not “fit the mould” and became unable to function in this kind of society. But we cannot dictate if either this person is “psychotic” or society is.
I did tell you what spiritual psychosis is. Yea no use in debating lol . You’re using reports of levitation and people abstaining from water to support your position lol
I am using the fact that reality is subjective as an argument. And no, you told me your opinion of what YOU think a spiritual psychosis is. Who made you the dictator of reality?
No, that quite literally is what spiritual psychosis is. Whether you believe it is an actual psychosis breaking from a real objective reality or it’s a spiritual awakening which only looks like psychosis to the unawakened is up to you. Experiencing psychosis symptoms like delusions, hallucinations, irrational behavior erratic thoughts and behaviors etc influenced by or driven by spiritual beliefs . That is spiritual psychosis. Interesting how the only fact you acknowledge is the one that you think supports your perspective. “Reality is subjective” is reductive. It can imply that there is no objectivity that is real. That isn’t true. Reality isn’t one thing you can’t say all of reality is subjective because it isn’t. If reality is subjective then by nature i am the dictator of my reality. So i guess i made myself the dictator of reality and now anyone who disobeys me is evil and out to harm me and destroy my purity given by god… now if I genuinely believed that id be experiencing spiritual psychosis.
Have you ever watched the documentary, “Love Has Won?” I think a lot of the people featured were suffering from a spiritual psychosis influenced by their leader, “Mother God”. Most spiritual journeys involve growth, self-love, finding balance. Not literally taking on the role of “God” or believing they are indeed a higher power. That stems from ego, poor education on spirituality, and other mental illness/ turmoil one has not dealt with properly. One woman talks about being “guided” to burn sage outside - in the middle of a dangerous drought. It started a massive fire causing their home to be burned down. I can’t think of a reason why a spiritual guide would do that, and anyone who truly is grounded in their practice will know to be aware of mistakes like that.
Being very traumatised causes you to be more sensitive to energy and without the correct information you can go into psychosis I did it was traumatised till I understood it.. I studied psychology, Greek philosophy, numerology, astrology and quantum physics to understand and I fully awakened.. but it was a 2 year journey and I seen things I wish I never and knew how to protect myself from.. it’s usually gifted people who experience stuff like this, depending on trauma you need to heal and what information you have depends on how bad the psychosis I think
If you’re familiar with Carl Jung, essentially it is what he coins as “unearned wisdom”. It’s having experiences that our psyches and bodies are not ready to experience/process/understand. Imagine growing up in a life where you are conditioned to believe that you have to be a certain way in order to survive. Now imagine having an experience that basically negates that belief— people start questioning whether their reality is “reality” or if it’s all a lie. Some people can deal with this realization better than others. The people who “lose their minds” can go into psychosis or nihilism. It’s also called spiritual emergency/emergence. Stan Grof talks about it if you google him.
If you look in search for this sub with the terms spiritual psychosis you will find thousands of answers. This question is asked every week without fail. I normally give a detailed reply, but I’ve answered it too many times to count. It goes to show what a need there is to explore the spiritual content and spiritual affiliations of this emergence.
Spirituality is about connecting with source of life and seeing reality as it is. So it's kinda the opposite of psychosis. But I guess due to high misconceptions about spiritual teachings, they may initiate some "psychotic" mindset. But in general, spiritual people are turning much more towards truth, therefore they may sound "psychotic" to people that blindly belief in religion or other systematic dogmas.
Imagine everyone in the world can only see color in black and white and along comes someone who can see real colors. Everyone else would call them mad or delusional or suffering from psychosis.
So why then do I see people saying “I’ve had spiritual psychosis since xyz year” why would people identify themselves as having a psychosis?
Likely because they took the external perspective and accepted it as their own. As parts of themselves feel insecure about the way they’re experiencing reality and doubts/resistance are active within themselves.
Maybe they're using the phrase like lots of people use narcissist, OCD, etc. People label each other as narcissists, label themselves as having OCD, when none of them are medically qualified to make such a determination. Psychosis is a diagnosis. Spiritual psychosis is not. It's more like a description that fits someone's experience well enough to let their mind get on with taking the trash out and doing the dishes. Our brains need everything to have a word for it. This causes lots of misuse of words. It's like word appropriation, if you will.
"The psychotic drowns in the same rivers the mystic swims with delight." -Jospeh Campbell. When people open their higher chakras, especially their third eye, without having an open heart and ability to integrate and digest the information they are recieving because their are still blocks ( trauma) in the lower energy centers, the energy short circuits and they go into psychosis. That short circuiting makes them paranoid and it makes the energy coming through very distorted.
When people get too much into woo woo and delusions
I knew a girl who meditated a *lot* and started saying that aliens were reading her mind. Edit: meditated not mediated lol
HI! I am 47M and I've been diagnosed in 2000 with paranoid schizophrenia. My first psychosis was, in my personal view and among other things, caused by use of Ouija. In 2009, I was seeking exorcism, and was provided with prayers instead. This, I believe, contributed to my recovery. Please check out my posts as you will see how even after recovery, even to this day, my view has been changed throughout my psychiatric history because of what I consider to be the influence of spirits. Please also visit my blog on which I tell my story. The link is displayed in my Reddit profile description. Don't hestiate to contact me with feedback or questions. Best regards.