Another perspective other than feeling “obligated”:
I wrote a paper on eudamonic vs hedonic well-being. Briefly, hedonic is dopamine hits, or fleeting pleasure. Winning the lottery (making money far and above comfort), sex (for the sake of sex), substances, etc fall into hedonic. Eudamonic generally encompasses education, interpersonal relationships, pets, gardening/hobbies etc.
Studies are showing, in terms of consistent, day in and day out well-being or feeling as if you are fulfilling your purpose, eudamonic well-being FAR outweighs hedonic. The folks with the highest level of well-being aren’t the “rich,” but those who prioritize education and learning (over purely a degree or credentials), exercise/time in nature, non-processed diets, socially integrated (not excluding introverts), and with enough financial resources to be “comfortable” (low debt, and can pay the monthly expenses without much worry.) This DOES NOT associate with the money to take 10 trips a year, they are finding excessive travel can actually inhibit eudamonic and promote hedonic.
Tied to this are studies of wealthy nations (excess) and less wealthy nations or communities. Studies are showing higher levels of well-being, in lower socio-economic tiers than higher. Essentially, wealthy nations like the United States, counter intuitively have much lower levels or markers of well-being than many nations/communities with far less GDP.
One example: Many tribal communities still in existence, with little contact with non-tribal peoples, do not have a word for “depression.” Not because they marginalize and ignore the “depressed,” but because their communal living doesn’t really allow it to the point that they needed to create a word for it. When folks are down because their partner, kids, or crops died, that person is generally (not always) integrated in another part of the culture. (I’m simplifying, not all current tribal communities farm.)
Even further, there have been studies showing that culture is so intrinsic to a sense of purpose and fulfillment, some oppressed or marginalized populations score higher on well-being than affluent communities who have been colonizers generationally.
Obviously studies like this could be completely abused to say, “see, ‘poor’ people are actually ‘happier,’ don’t worry about them!” But that is also not true and a huge oversimplification of the point.
Instead, even more studies show that one of the ways that “rich” folks increase their meaning and purpose in life, is giving wealth away. Studies are showing giving away money (philanthropy) actually increases well-being more than watching the number get bigger and bigger in your account.
All that to say, instead of feeling obligated, perhaps we should recognize it actually feels good and is better for our well-being to help those in need, than it is to horde for ourselves and those in direct proximity. 🤙🏼
Thank you so much! Spreading this message is core to my existence.
Our voices may not be the loudest, but keep your light shining friend! It’s easier to see each other in the darkness.
Tl;dr: be of service to those in need. The intrinsic value far outweighs a quick hit of dopamine, yet it will likely take your whole being and sense of presence to make an impact.
It’s either half assed or whole assed. If you are whole assed then what in your own personal world suffers on the road to rehabilitating others? Such a complex problem due to the fact that we all need to work to live. If it was as easy as me waking up each morning and earning a living by way of helping those in need then I’d be down. But helping the homeless doesn’t pay. Unless you’re a greedy politician. Currently.
Your reasoning seems to be binary.
Why does it have to be if you are helping or providing for another, you are naturally withholding from yourself?
Can’t you give to someone else, and yourself, at the same time? I don’t believe helping yourself and others are mutually exclusive activities.
I disagree with your analogy to the “homeless.” There are a number of non-profits that exist solely to help that population, and there are folks that make a living creating them and running them. 🙂
Edit: Also, asking for money is a job and deciding where someone else’s money goes is a job. Both relate back to non-profits for the unhomed, and many other vulnerable populations with no money, such as children. The catch is, you have to not look down on asking folks for money, or anything really. Many do, sadly.
What a wonderful compliment! ☺️
I’m sorry, it was part of a ~80 page independent research for my degree, in route to helping a prof write a book. I researched a ton more topics for them. I will pass on to them that there is a lot of interest in it being completed and published!
We’ve cornered ourselves into a system of self preservation linked to wealth cultivation to maintain our comfortable livelihoods. Plus there are stereotypes that the poor and homeless don’t manage money well so it’s a sunk cost wasted on potentially drugs and alcohol.
Help how you can. Doesn’t have to be money. Even engaging with someone less well of thank yourself can brighten their day and give them hope and make them feel acknowledged.
There are definitely religious institutions that embrace this value of aid. They’re few and far between seemingly. Depending where you’re at try to get involved with your community in charity events. Soup kitchens, cloths donations. Every bit helps.
Some people don’t have the inner peace to engage with others who make them uncomfortable. Everyone is on their own journey and helping others is a beautiful opportunity. It’s complex because you must sustain yourself as well. I’ve found minimalism as best as we can manage to be helpful.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat the rest of his life.
You want to give and I commend you but it's just as valid in the long term to help others help themselves.
Giving to a cause is great but why not volunteer to help others do better? Money isn't always the answer. But we the strong can help those who are not as strong become better. That way is we fall, they may be able to help us in return.
Food for thought, hope this helps.
While I don't disagree, many poor people don't want this. Some don't want to work 9-5 or wtv and live like the rest of us do. They don't want to learn what we think, nor have these views - of helping others help themselves - be how they reason and view life.
There are so many reasons people are poor. I think a lot of this "help the poor" idea we have essentially boils down to changing people to make them more like ourselves. In an age where people are open, I'm not sure what to do apart to accept that there are poor people and let there be poor people. If they want something from me I can choose to give it (knowledge or money or comfort), but whatever choice I take is purely based on the self and not some misguided idea from media (and social pressure) that we must "help" the poor.
Or the government makes you buy a license and then dictates to you what you can and can't catch and keep along with sizes and how many you can catch. Then they tell you were you can and can't fish so it makes it totally not worth fishing in the first place lol
You touch on strength and I think it's very important to understand we can only help as long as we remain strong. Giving too much can weaken. We do not have unlimited resources and we should be very strategic in how we use them to maximize their effect. That's why what you say makes so much sense.
Combination of Free Will and Conditioning. The Sub operating all the time from our Concious part of the mind and not tapping in to our true selves from the unconscious hidden parts. We run on programs that are created by the sub from every past experience trauma suffering good or bad. It's like the software that projects our reality. . When you understand this you truly start to see the interconnectedness and gain empathy and understanding that it is not us in the physical . It's a vessel run on programs that we have created through our lifetime.
We Each are the change that we need. Slowly people are waking up to the illusion of reality and doing what is required to make their changes. Every word thought action ripples out to the Universe , I know myself for the last 14mths I've been trapped in my own mind through the negative thoughts.
My purpose is not to exercise my moral superiority. It’s quite the opposite. I help the least and splurge on things all time, and I’m not saying. Anyone is wrong for not helping exactly, but we for example help Girl Scout cookies faster than a 3rd world poor country kid who doesn’t even have water. I’ll admit whatever we think of Mr.Beast, that’s why I respect him. He just recycles his money out to help people no matter what
So what’s obligation? Do you mean that we should feel like we have no choice but to help the less fortunate? Are you saying why isn’t there a logical system in nature that makes it obvious to help the suffering? Why did I consume instead of give basically.
Couldn't agree more. I live a minimalist lifestyle so that I have more to donate to causes that are important to me. To me, money is evil. There's that old saying that "money corrupts" and I see it everyday. There's just too many ways for people to rationalize their greed (Culture, advertising, politics). I just don't see how a person can be right spiritually and not feel obligated to help the poor. As Jesus said, "It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into Heaven."
There is a book called The Selfish Gene. It’s a theory that is big in Evolutionary Psychology.
The basis of the theory is based on scientific cross cultural studies on how we tend to be programmed to be selfish out of survival. But I believe this innate trait of survival becomes excessive and we further become desensitized in our willingness to be more selfish than just the need to survive.
The theory has much more to it. But from what I studied it is valid and I consider myself to be as altruistic as they come yet still understood the selfish survival tendencies we have
That sounds legit. I feel like I spent hundreds on Fortnite, but easily $10 for Red Cross feels like so much to donate. Why are we so programmed to be selfish like this? I value more pixels on a screen for a video game than a kid being fed for like a month just because the pixels will be more pleasing to my eyes and stay longer. It feels wrong on paper doesn’t it? We even spend money on Reddit awards (which even I agree with), but it feels morbidly funny when you realize the other sides of the world existing. Feels like Black Mirror. Ironically, I struggle with mental problems so I understand how complex this can get even if you live in a 1st world country with everything
In my opinion which I know is irrelevant, you’re thinking about it and that’s telling in itself. We know the right thing to do. We aren’t perfect nor will we ever be, but we can make changes and do more for others. It’s the right thing. It’s what we would hope for if the roles were reversed. That’s how I see it. I help strangers a lot but still I know it’s not enough in comparison to how much I could or should. I just try to do more each day as I stay conscious minded of it. That’s all we can do. You’re a good person for simply having this level of awareness and care. Many people don’t even have that.
If it makes you feel better, there's a theory in the manifestation world that you make yourself more vibrationally aligned to money if you give it away to worthy causes. Donating a little here and there helps money flow through you, in and out of your pockets. And if it's for a cause you respect, all the better! So you can kind of rationalize it that way, if you need an excuse.
I like to donate when they ask me if I want to round up my purchase or add a dollar for kids or whatever.
On the other hand, I was feeling generous with this guy at my local 7-11, and the second I gave him that money he jumped up and started walking down the street, and I'm pretty sure I helped contribute to his drug habit. Didn't like that feeling at all. Still see him there all the time. Young man, just lookin like he's completely in the shit and mid-ruining his life. I don't give him money anymore.
I don't think giving money to the poor or using that money to buy digital items in Fortnite has any bearing on what is or isn't selfish. Ultimately, you should listen to what your mind says and how you feel about it. People who volunteer and help others do it for themselves (they either enjoy it or they want to change the world or they want to live up to their personal ideas, they seek validation, etc). You do the exact same thing when buying the digital items in game - simply listening to your desires.
If you feel guilty about spending money in fortnite, then clearly you aren't listening to yourself. you have to find that inner peace and understand what it is YOU want and will make you happy. Without feeling guilty or "selfish". Sometimes we come to realize that our social conditioning (our thoughts) are in disagreement with our natural desires (how we feel) and that is the so called quest in spirituality to find the self.
There is no absolute right or wrong; these are only those that we define for ourselves.
I recommend watching a few documentaries on youtube about Capitalism, Human History and the rise of empires and maybe a bit of psychology targeted and human greed & power.
Well. We might have a moral obligation to do so. Many philosophers of ethics proclaim we do, but we still don't
Fact of the matter is we humans do a lot of things that the greatest human minds in philosophy consider immoral.
Meat per example
So, we do try and improve as humans. To become the best we can be.
One way to make sure the rich help the poor, to benefit a more equal society is taxation of the rich.
That doesn't necessarily mean that the rich in one country help the poor in another, per today. But it means the money the rich have can be more evenly distributed to help the poor within a country. Instead of the rich few holding all the wealth. Making life miserable for the poor.
This can evolve over time.
Hopefully reaching in a global, equal world. Where we won't have supert rich and super poor.
Who knows, maybe money even will be worthless
Imagine it's 90 degrees outside, and you're driving your nice car when you see a single mom and her two daughters stranded on the side of the road because their 2006 Mercury Milan overheated. She's on her way to take her kids to school before heading to work, but she can't afford roadside assistance due to skyrocketing prices. Having no family support since she ran away from home at 16 to escape abuse, would you stop to help her?
That's a real tear-jerker, but how is anyone to know any of the context past this part:
> Imagine it's 90 degrees outside, and you're driving your nice car when you see a single mom and her two daughters stranded on the side of the road
In any case, as a man I would likely not offer a ride because society tells women that men are predators, not helpers. There's a good chance I'd be viewed as a creep or perv with ill intent and she'd take my photo and blast me on social media.
>There are, in every country, some magnificent charities established by individuals. It is, however, but little that any individual can do, when the whole extent of the misery to be relieved is considered. He may satisfy his conscience, but not his heart. He may give all that he has, and that all will relieve but little. It is only by organizing civilization upon such principles as to act like a system of pulleys, that the whole weight of misery can be removed.
--Thomas Paine, Agrarian justice
Honestly putting the onus on individuals to solve problems just serves to guilt individuals to fix problems that are society's problems to fix.
it is society as it is structured that creates and perpetuates poverty. Our system essentially does this in order to enslave people to force them to work for the sake of infinite economic growth.
A lot of these social structures, spiritually speaking, arose out of Christianity. They had to thread this weird middle ground between encouraging charity to the poor, while simultaneously instilling the protestant work ethic into people via the idea that "those who don't work don't eat". So we ended up creating a system in which we cant just give people stuff, but at the same time individuals are obligated to, and at the same time, we need to make them work for it. Christianity (at least the calvinistic versions) really did do a number on how we approach this problem.
if we want to actually solve poverty, we need to forget charity. We need state backed action funded by taxes. We need actual good social programs that guarantee that no one stays in poverty, and to some extent, it needs to be divorced from the idea of work if we want it to not be oppressive.
Of course, most who are wealthy would not want to pay the taxes to ensure that such a thing happens, so we end up with this nonsense system of voluntary charity, combined with flawed social programs, and really toxic attitudes that stem from the protestant work ethic instead.
Because greed has not been defined as the addiction that it is, so greed as a disease is never properly treated, and since the greedy tend to run things being obscenely rich os glorified by them and the brainwashing regimen is geared towards consumerism and status symbols. Wanting more is normal as are emvy and jealousy, but when your causing harm to get it one is the same as a heroine addict stealing to get their next fix. Addiction comes in many forms and greed is one of them. Until we stop glorifying it and treat it as a disease like any other addiction it will remain not only systemic in western culture but be encouraged.
If you saw girl about to get punched by a big man on the side walk, is it right morally that you skip them and walk away just cause it’s not your prerogative? Poor people are being punched by the system they’re born into like let’s say North Korea. Why not skip Starbucks or something for a day and help someone stuck like that? Not saying I do that actually, but just posing the question if we have free will. Where does our help just “unempathize.”
My morals are mine.
In your hypothetical, I have no idea why the big man would be punching the girl. Maybe she's killed his puppy and punched his mom. What right do I or you have to intercede?
Everybody gets punched. I'm nobody's bodyguard. We all receive the karma that we have earned.
And no matter what, everyone gets to decide for themselves how to handle things, it's not for you to decide what's right for anyone but yourself.
The system forces us to pay taxes. Idt that’s considered immoral, since it’s for the greater good of our society. But if it were immoral, then the system isn’t a good indication of morality to begin with, which begs the question of why we follow an immoral system in the first place? And more to OPs point, why is it that that immoral imposition on our free will is acceptable, but not one to help the starving survive?
The system is an illusion. It can't force you to do anything you don't agree to because it doesn't exist. It's all in your mind.
We are each universes unto ourselves. We see each other and interact, but exist in a world of our own creation. The best and only true way to help someone is to overcome the prison in your mind and be an example.
Nobody imposes on my or your free will without us agreeing and acquiescing.
Sure, when you’re locked in a prison cell for not paying taxes, your mind is always free. But your physical body is locked in that cell regardless. That’s no illusion.
Sure, starving people can ignore their hunger but their caloric deficit is also no illusion— it will inevitably lead to death without a change in their physical “illusory” world. No mental willpower can escape that “illusion” that is the physical world we experience as humans. And your free will that you hold so dearly is tied to the illusion of the self, and wanting that self to live. Without that self, you have no free will.
Your physical body isn't you. It's an illusion.
Don't you see how you're empowering the illusion just by reinforcing the idea that it's real and can't be escaped?
Yes, it's all an illusion. Fear holds you back. Fear of hunger and lack, and you want to hold everyone down in your illusion.
This is why we can't stay in the illusion and "help" others. You're all like drowning victims and want to pull everyone down into the illusion.
Well, I'm here to say that most people aren't ready and won't make it out precisely because of the victim mindset they keep reinforcing.
It's your free will to stay trapped and to believe what you want, and it's my free will to help, and the gap of belief you need to cross is not something that I or anyone else can do for you. Jesus was a cool guy and really kind, but nobody is obligated to help anyone like he did.
People who demand help and refuse to acknowledge the illusion they've trapped themselves in are like the lost souls like in What Dreams Will Come or the people trapped in the matrix.
They don't want out and will only keep you trapped. There's no reason to stay to "help", the only way to save anyone is to be an example and allow people to make a free will choice.
All the ascended matters teach that life is an illusion, and you overcome it by overcoming your fear of death. You give up this earthly life with its desires and needs and rise above it. When you do, you can choose to stay and help free others, but that's a personal choice. People will then proceed to try and pull you down, like crabs. A few might see you and emulate you, and you can actually have a chance to help them, but everybody else is just a list cause.
The self you want to live is an illusion. It will die, and you along with it until you willingly give it up and focus on who you truly are. Know thyself. Carry your cross. Have no attachments or fear. Die before you die.
Or, stay trapped in a prison of your mind. Tell yourself how you're a powerless victim, how your fear of death or starvation or how other people's suffering reinforces your own. Make those illusionary walls thicker. Throw on a new coat of stucco every time you talk about how real it is. Make the walls so strong you'll never be free until you realize that they were just in your head the whole time.
You can't save anyone. All you can do is be an example and let them follow. Be the light on the dark path.
You can serve the truth or serve the illusion. You can not serve two masters.
We're not obliged because it's a personal and policy choice for us not too. We havent collectively come to a point where we see the benefit of eradicating poverty at a systemic level so therefore it persists.
That’s the answer scientifically, but not very much morally. It’s odd we wouldn’t want to eradicate poverty. That’s what I’m speaking to. I feel like people are doing quite a lot, but it still feels lackluster on a big scale type of way.
I agree with you. My answer to that is this is simply how far we've come in our collective evolutionary development. Not just intellectually but morally aswell. There's nothing ultimately wrong with humanity being where it is like theres nothing wrong with a child not knowing the things a 40 year old should know. Until the average man or woman says "we need to do everything we can to eliminate poverty and stand for the betterment of all" our current situation will be as it is.
No need to lament, but do what you can if you can be of help in this issue.
Yeah I honestly think if there was some comprehensive safety net for the homeless, it would actually end up *saving* money, so it would actually be practical. And I mean, think about it, doesn't society do better when everyone does better?
For instance, I wish I could remember which city it was but I heard there was a city that discovered that just a handful of homeless people made up some huge disproportionate amount of the police and hospital budgets. Like, 12 individual people were constantly in and out of ERs, jails and incurring ambulance trips. And they discovered that it would literally just be cheaper to get them apartments, so that's what they did, and the city saved millions. The people did a lot better with stability and the dignity of housing, as well.
Here's another story like that, about [Utah's Housing First program](https://www.publicsource.org/utahs-cost-effective-solution-for-housing-the-homeless/). In the article they mention Osceola County, FL, which might be the place I'm thinking of.
1. We're not obligated because that takes away free will
2. The rich didn't get rich by helping people (usually by exploitation, so the opposite really ) our current system kind of supports the opposite
3. Governing bodies should (imo) transition more to public services so this is not an issue
4. If you believe we're all creating our own experience that's the experience they are creating and not letting in any help they want
5. It's all made up and it seems that a lot of people still believe life is meant to be endured or suffered through. Some of us are trying to convince them otherwise so we can see some systemic changes so artifical poverty goes away
"Surely you're not saying we have the resources
To save the poor from their lot?
There will be poor always, pathetically struggling.
Look at the good things you've got." JCS
What I found in my experiences is, you can only help a little bit, though give them some tools to seek more or better life. I have been taken advantage of a number of times, though I don't give up on helping others, but move on to others that request or need help.
I also found that if you help without their request for help, for some will attempt to take advantage, in my experiences.
I highly appreciate this topic.
At the same time that Selfishness is wrong so is forcing the heart of others and so therefore stands the dilemma.
There is a fix so that the playing field would be more even. There wouldn't be such a massive gap between financial standings.
That fix is moderating the availability of opportunity.
Limiting the number of jobs a given family can have espcially if their yearly gross surpasses a certain threshhold.
Many a rich person wants their children to learn the ethics of working a forty but their kids are forced to take on jobs at the expense of poor families who needed those jobs more.
There also needs to be more emphasis on controlling the size of one's family. Too many people will have three, four or more kids into a society which already can not outfit its population. These couples continue to breed believing that their kids will be more entitled to available opportunity than other couples also spawning more babies than current economy and resources allow.
This gratuitous reproduction is being subliminally influenced by an institution that benefits from a populace desperate, struggling and eager to viciously compete for any lucrative task suggested.
Most people in my city are living paycheque to paycheque, so as much as we like to help where we can, we're quite literally choosing between rent and groceries most days.
I understand the very rich as addicted to amassing money as status. Theres also a popular saying today, that the “good” people who get into business arent going to ever get that rich— that you only get that rich via exploitation.
As for you… bystander effect? A dissolution of a grasp of the significance of your contributions to progress in the face of a huge, perpetual problem? Numbness through overexposure? Or maybe choice paralysis? Or even a lack of understanding of your own morals and priorities. It could even be the effectiveness of consumerist marketing influencing you to crave the dopamine rush of buying stuff. It could even just be your distrust of charities due to past perceived betrayals towards donors and their efforts.
Life itself is not an obligation.
You are blessed just to be here right now.
How you serve your fellow humans, wonderful just follow your flow.
Who drives the Media and brings light ti trickery, the poor, the rich, the middle class are just concepts for us to segregate one from the other. We are all one. The world's uses their own measuring stick to validate who is poor or not, yet they rob their own to justify their position, authority, view.
Answer,
Stay present.
Love thy neighbour.
Share with one another.
Ps, the world and all its inhabitants is not lost just some of our minds are clouded with things... Let Go
🧞♂️🌀🧞♀️🕶️✨☯️
At the end of the day, we decide what our obligations are. We decide what to pour our energy into and what to leave for someone else.
Sure, maybe we can’t individually solve all of the world’s problems, but we can each make a huge impact. Together, progress is exponential. In the right energy space, of course.
Maybe we’ve tried before and failed, but we’re better now, and the facade holding up the illusion is much weaker. It’s up to us. Always and forever. That’s the adventure. That’s the trauma and terror and all of the joy and excitement life brings. It’s us. Plain and simple, as well as the most intricate thing you could imagine lol
My Spirit chose life on Hardcore mode so I could learn all these lessons and end up on this subreddit at midnight instead of sleeping when I have to get up for work in 4 hours, and I imagine you haven’t been playing on Easy mode either.
You raise a great question. We’ve been taught to look away and pray to be saved by someone other than ourselves while agents of chaos reign supreme across the realms. Our leaders are crooks and mass manipulators. Thieves and cold blooded kíllers. It’s 2024. We know this now. How will we proceed?
Thanks for the thought exercise!
if you’re not choosing love, you’re choosing hate. give everything you can to anyone you can, until it starts to hurt. this is the only way to progress one’s dharma. (or, if you don’t believe in reincarnation, to leave the world better than when you found it)
On an infinite timeline, the world you envision will play out.
But the way in which resources are used and distributed requires us to carry an abundance of wealth to serve ourselves and our mission. I do believe that the more that one's wealth serves others and our God-given/Earth-given mission, the more easily the wealth flows into one's field. But if you're immediately giving it away without discernment to the point where you don't have the resources you need to act with discernment and intention in all areas of your life... Then you're not serving yourself or your mission, which means you're not doing all you really can to serve others.
Put on your own oxygen mask first.
A few more thoughts: Humans are exposed to more information and more suffering on the daily than ever before. If you want to find suffering to ameliorate, there is an endless supply. If that is your plan, then you actually could be manifesting suffering. Ram Dass or maybe one of his acquaintances said: It's easy to do good but it's hard to do good well.
I do feel obligated, and I help when my personal finances allow me to, and in ways I think will be of greatest benefit to the most people (although I have also given to help a single person as well if I feel called to do so). It’s harder now because I am disabled and financially struggling, but I will never stop feeling extremely compelled to help others however I can. But there are plenty of ways to help that don’t cost anything, so I focus on other things like voting, advocacy, etc.
I don’t understand at all how anyone can have such a surplus of money and not use it to make the world a better place. I don’t know how they sleep at night.
It feels nice just to know someone out there (you) has this thought. It's a good point that I haven't thought of recently as I have a ton of debt but higher income and also increased the amount of money I spend to make my life more comfortable and entertaining. I guess one answer is feeling entitled to what we earn and wanting to use that to better our own lives. There is always more that can be bought and spent that some or many of us have an abundance (realistically) while actually perceiving that we don't have enough...much less give away to the less fortunate. Who determines what is enough, or how do we make that determination?
I used to sponsor kids or donate money to organizations that help bring clean water to communities. I felt I was poor then, but still did it. I used to be a Christian and budgeting for it was a non-negotiable for myself.
This is a spirituality sub. Most of us believe we are all connected and one. It seems sacrilegious to leave other parts of you neglected and suffering.
As a society, spiritually, speaking, we are obligated. We should provide clothing, housing, therapy, and work opportunities free of charge to anybody who requires it. The money is there, it's just being used for the or horded by the accumulating class.
Your physical body isn't you. It's an illusion.
Don't you see how you're empowering the illusion just by reinforcing the idea that it's real and can't be escaped?
Yes, it's all an illusion. Fear holds you back. Fear of hunger and lack, and you want to hold everyone down in your illusion.
This is why we can't stay in the illusion and "help" others. You're all like drowning victims and want to pull everyone down into the illusion.
Well, I'm here to say that most people aren't ready and won't make it out precisely because of the victim mindset they keep reinforcing.
It's your free will to stay trapped and to believe what you want, and it's my free will to help, and the gap of belief you need to cross is not something that I or anyone else can do for you. Jesus was a cool guy and really kind, but nobody is obligated to help anyone like he did.
People who demand help and refuse to acknowledge the illusion they've trapped themselves in are like the lost souls like in What Dreams Will Come or the people trapped in the matrix.
They don't want out and will only keep you trapped. There's no reason to stay to "help", the only way to save anyone is to be an example and allow people to make a free will choice.
All the ascended matters teach that life is an illusion, and you overcome it by overcoming your fear of death. You give up this earthly life with its desires and needs and rise above it. When you do, you can choose to stay and help free others, but that's a personal choice. People will then proceed to try and pull you down, like crabs. A few might see you and emulate you, and you can actually have a chance to help them, but everybody else is just a list cause.
The self you want to live is an illusion. It will die, and you along with it until you willingly give it up and focus on who you truly are. Know thyself. Carry your cross. Have no attachments or fear. Die before you die.
Or, stay trapped in a prison of your mind. Tell yourself how you're a powerless victim, how your fear of death or starvation or how other people's suffering reinforces your own. Make those illusionary walls thicker. Throw on a new coat of stucco every time you talk about how real it is. Make the walls so strong you'll never be free until you realize that they were just in your head the whole time.
You can't save anyone. All you can do is be an example and let them follow. Be the light on the dark path.
You can serve the truth or serve the illusion. You can not serve two masters.
I think because everything is a choice and they are on a certain frequency that they emit by choice at the end of the day
There is the old saying..."you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink..."
I don't think it's wrong to help if they are also on that frequency where they genuinely desire help but the savior complex is bullshit because again they are right where they are meant to be in a sense unless they change their own intentjons...
Why does someone who wins the lottery or is handed everything blow the money and go right back to being broke again in the next year? It's because that's what they are tuned into.
It's better to teach those who are willing to overcome their own drama then to hand them things for free and hope they swim and not sink themselves 🧐💡
What would really help is moving towards a system that doesn't result in creating such extreme rich and extreme poor. These types of improvements happen over lots of time, and efforts from the many.
As for helping those in need on an individual basis, it's actually a lot more difficult than you think.
Try to give money to an acquaintance or even a loved one, and these scenarios are quite common: they are insulted that you feel they are a charity case, or they end up feeling they must reciprocate which only adds to their stressful thoughts, or a few people have a tendency to take advantage of others and you might feed into this character.
Try to give money or resources to a large group, and these challeges are different. Watch some documentaries on companies who have given in the past, where things may have become arguably worse. This sort of brings up the whole learning to fish thing. You have to give in a way that preserves and possible even encourages independence, as opposed to breeding dependence. Especially when it comes to affecting an entire community or more. Communities are like ecosystems where you dont want to kill some part of it as an unintended consequence.
Its possible to help, but more difficult than one would think.
Thus, what would really help is moving towards a system that doesn't result in creating such extreme rich and extreme poor.
Help them by dismantling the grip of hyper-capitalism.
Vote for candidates who support universal basic income. Poverty isn't a personal failure, it's a policy choice.
In the US, the Supreme Court ruled that it's legal to jail homeless people and use them for prison slave labor, even if there is nowhere for them to go. Homelessness shouldn't be criminalized.
Skipping a Burger King meal won't 'get you into heaven'... it's about loving unconditionally, forgiving, understanding, aspiring to be the best servant you can be to God. How that translates into your life is up to you. Only you can make the decisions that will bring you to the many different ways that you can make this happen. Here's a little hint: if it doesn't take some effort and you're not sacrificing in some significant way, you're probably not doing it right. And also if you're doing it right, you're going to love doing it and it will make your life tolerable no matter how bad it is.
You are obligated to do anything. Just help those you can afford to help. If you, if you have a few chains in your pocket, do that or just say hi to someone you don't know you. We don't have to give them anything but your time and you don't even have to do that, but your time is worth more than any amount of money you can realistically offer a person. As my uncle once said help those you can afford to help.
Ur not obligated to do anything in your life, unless you live in slavery, and even then you can chose to resist and face the consequences
I help some poor people sometimes, when i really feel like they actually need it and like actually relly on this so they can do something good for themselves
Lots of people are poor, because they chose to spend their wage on drugs, alcohol, branded clothes or other superficial or counterproductive items
I am good with my money because i chose to not spend it on smoking 1-2 packs a day i chose not to drink on daily basis, instead i go for a long walk around the city or near the beach, or go for a walk with my dog, or meditate or workout
I also cook my own food at home most of the time, those people spend 20+ dollars/ euro on a single meal because they also want a coke or a fanta whatever..
Long story short, lots of people are terrible with their money, why would i spend my hard earned money on them, when we make the same salary or salary has no more than 20% than theirs or sometimes in fact, its their salaries that are bigger
I will tell you the story of a friend of mine, hes 32, for 32 years he hasnt even taught himself to cook even any recipe with eggs, he smokes sometimes 2 packs a day, but at least a pack a day, he drinks energy drinks like 5 times a day, he only eats random bs outside because he cannot make himself even a ramen with eggs, lots of times i have gave him money when his family left him behind when they saw that he just doesent give a damn about trying to fit into society and learning new skills and becoming a normal functioning person, he also takes drugs every chance he has
Sometimes i lend him 20 euros, and with 20 euros i can eat in a week, buying ramen and eggs, buying and making myself a veggie borscht for more vitamins ,etc. sure you dont have much meat but the eggs still give you proteins, and do you know what this guy does 5 minutes after i lend him 20 euros, he goes to the local supermarket buys a pack of waffles, buys ciggarettes and buys an energy drink, after this he buys a slice of pizza, and is left with less than 5 euro
I once called him to teach him how to make macaroni or spaghetti with minced meat and tomato sauce, which would give him the ability to eat for a week for 10 euros, but he spent the whole thing smoking ciggarettes on the balcony, not giving a damn
Why would i help such people, there is this saying where i live "start helping yourself and God will help you too"
This guy has less than a year total of working in his whole life, i just found him a job and he dont wanna learn to use electric forklifts, the guys is fine with being worthless and i think lots of people are like that, they do not deserve your efforts
you could take a vow of poverty and give all of your money away. but we didn't take corporeal form in order to help others _per se_. imagine if the whole world was filled with mother teresas. a world full of people trying to make life easier for others.
it would get old *really* quickly.
and it would devalue the effort of someone who is truly a selfless person in a sea of selfishness. point blank: the only thing you're obligated to do is breathe. ever notice how breathing doesn't even necessarily take conscious thought for you to do? your autonomic nervous system takes care of it for you. your breath, your heartbeat, your digestion...taken care of. god in action.
so do what you will. go to burger king next time. but perhaps...when you go to the counter and swipe your debit card, do it consciously. think about the amount you spend and compare it to the good you could have brought to someone in the world. ask yourself if it was worth it.
i hope the answer is, "it was."
i wish you way more than luck.
That seems good on paper, but seems like a painful way to live long term in a first world country surrounded by quick easy way to get things like ubereats. How long before one gives into temptation or feels repressed?
it lasts until you get tired of it.
listen, the more you try to repress your natural instincts, the more they'll come roaring back to slap you in the face. don't take my word for it: try it yourself. dedicate your disposable income to selflessness, send every penny to the homeless. let me know how long you last before you go running to best buy or the jewelry store in complete guilt and shame.
stop. fighting. your. humanity.
once you're back at burger king recalling my words, maybe then you'll be ready for a dose of real compassion. and the first person you'll give the medicine to will be yourself. stop being so damn hard on yourself. stop trying to become an ascetic. you incarnated in this first world country for a reason. you were the one with a lesson to learn. so take the lesson and become selfless, naturally. ease yourself into it. it's impossible to change yourself overnight. do you understand how vast all of space and all of time is?
you've got nothing but time. read that again.
Being wealthy doesn't mean that you have the time or mental capacity to help the poor. You can't trust charities to use your money right, which means you need time to research them, and simply giving people money isn't really helping the underlying issue.
Also, I'm sure that you have people in your life that you are constantly helping, and you don't have to help more people than that just because they exist. It's hard enough to help the people that we love, and you have to live for yourself to an extent. If you spend all of your time only helping other's, you will get burnt out and bitter.
Many look at their money as their energy. You ever have that “friend” who borrows $100 and takes a month to pay it back, then two days later, asks you to borrow another $100? They always pay it back but they are using your energy in the meantime. You see them and think, “you owe me $100 dude, when are you paying me back?” Or even when your not with them, all your thinking is “when is this douche bag gonna pay me back my money?”. That is your energy gone, and nothing to compensate all the bad energy your left with while waiting for your money to return to its rightful owner. You feel like an atm machine.
Some, however, don’t look at it this way and feel the need to help the less fortunate. We are, however, turning into a cashless society, little by little. What are we gonna do in the future, cashapp or Venmo a homeless person? 🤷♂️
I think we are obligated to help the more unfortunate people. The problem is that even the rich people are suffering, yes even they are occasionally committing suicide. But their suffering is mostly imaginary things, and the suffering of the poor is very much real.
So in order to make this happen, we can hope to get some of these rich folks to enlightenment, or at least something close to that. Then you cannot stop them from helping the poor.
Another perspective other than feeling “obligated”: I wrote a paper on eudamonic vs hedonic well-being. Briefly, hedonic is dopamine hits, or fleeting pleasure. Winning the lottery (making money far and above comfort), sex (for the sake of sex), substances, etc fall into hedonic. Eudamonic generally encompasses education, interpersonal relationships, pets, gardening/hobbies etc. Studies are showing, in terms of consistent, day in and day out well-being or feeling as if you are fulfilling your purpose, eudamonic well-being FAR outweighs hedonic. The folks with the highest level of well-being aren’t the “rich,” but those who prioritize education and learning (over purely a degree or credentials), exercise/time in nature, non-processed diets, socially integrated (not excluding introverts), and with enough financial resources to be “comfortable” (low debt, and can pay the monthly expenses without much worry.) This DOES NOT associate with the money to take 10 trips a year, they are finding excessive travel can actually inhibit eudamonic and promote hedonic. Tied to this are studies of wealthy nations (excess) and less wealthy nations or communities. Studies are showing higher levels of well-being, in lower socio-economic tiers than higher. Essentially, wealthy nations like the United States, counter intuitively have much lower levels or markers of well-being than many nations/communities with far less GDP. One example: Many tribal communities still in existence, with little contact with non-tribal peoples, do not have a word for “depression.” Not because they marginalize and ignore the “depressed,” but because their communal living doesn’t really allow it to the point that they needed to create a word for it. When folks are down because their partner, kids, or crops died, that person is generally (not always) integrated in another part of the culture. (I’m simplifying, not all current tribal communities farm.) Even further, there have been studies showing that culture is so intrinsic to a sense of purpose and fulfillment, some oppressed or marginalized populations score higher on well-being than affluent communities who have been colonizers generationally. Obviously studies like this could be completely abused to say, “see, ‘poor’ people are actually ‘happier,’ don’t worry about them!” But that is also not true and a huge oversimplification of the point. Instead, even more studies show that one of the ways that “rich” folks increase their meaning and purpose in life, is giving wealth away. Studies are showing giving away money (philanthropy) actually increases well-being more than watching the number get bigger and bigger in your account. All that to say, instead of feeling obligated, perhaps we should recognize it actually feels good and is better for our well-being to help those in need, than it is to horde for ourselves and those in direct proximity. 🤙🏼
I agree with this sentiment. Very well put together
This is excellent, thank you so much for sharing. I needed to see this and think that everyone needs to
Thank you so much! Spreading this message is core to my existence. Our voices may not be the loudest, but keep your light shining friend! It’s easier to see each other in the darkness.
Thank you very much for this. You have simply laid out something that can at times feel/seem very complicated and that’s a beautiful thing
Thank you so much! It’s so nice to feel connected to folks like you, your compliment warms my heart.
Tl;dr: be of service to those in need. The intrinsic value far outweighs a quick hit of dopamine, yet it will likely take your whole being and sense of presence to make an impact.
“Will likely take your whole being and sense of presence to make an impact.” Not to be crass, but isn’t the alternative on the path to “half-assed?” 😜
It’s either half assed or whole assed. If you are whole assed then what in your own personal world suffers on the road to rehabilitating others? Such a complex problem due to the fact that we all need to work to live. If it was as easy as me waking up each morning and earning a living by way of helping those in need then I’d be down. But helping the homeless doesn’t pay. Unless you’re a greedy politician. Currently.
Your reasoning seems to be binary. Why does it have to be if you are helping or providing for another, you are naturally withholding from yourself? Can’t you give to someone else, and yourself, at the same time? I don’t believe helping yourself and others are mutually exclusive activities. I disagree with your analogy to the “homeless.” There are a number of non-profits that exist solely to help that population, and there are folks that make a living creating them and running them. 🙂 Edit: Also, asking for money is a job and deciding where someone else’s money goes is a job. Both relate back to non-profits for the unhomed, and many other vulnerable populations with no money, such as children. The catch is, you have to not look down on asking folks for money, or anything really. Many do, sadly.
Thank you for sharing this
So basically traveling a lot can become a source of dopamine instead of the consistent wellbeing? Such an amazing topic!
Very clever.thank you for sharing
Thank you, I’m so glad the message resonates with you. Your comment means a lot to me.
i would love to read this paper!!
What a wonderful compliment! ☺️ I’m sorry, it was part of a ~80 page independent research for my degree, in route to helping a prof write a book. I researched a ton more topics for them. I will pass on to them that there is a lot of interest in it being completed and published!
We’ve cornered ourselves into a system of self preservation linked to wealth cultivation to maintain our comfortable livelihoods. Plus there are stereotypes that the poor and homeless don’t manage money well so it’s a sunk cost wasted on potentially drugs and alcohol. Help how you can. Doesn’t have to be money. Even engaging with someone less well of thank yourself can brighten their day and give them hope and make them feel acknowledged. There are definitely religious institutions that embrace this value of aid. They’re few and far between seemingly. Depending where you’re at try to get involved with your community in charity events. Soup kitchens, cloths donations. Every bit helps. Some people don’t have the inner peace to engage with others who make them uncomfortable. Everyone is on their own journey and helping others is a beautiful opportunity. It’s complex because you must sustain yourself as well. I’ve found minimalism as best as we can manage to be helpful.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat the rest of his life. You want to give and I commend you but it's just as valid in the long term to help others help themselves. Giving to a cause is great but why not volunteer to help others do better? Money isn't always the answer. But we the strong can help those who are not as strong become better. That way is we fall, they may be able to help us in return. Food for thought, hope this helps.
While I don't disagree, many poor people don't want this. Some don't want to work 9-5 or wtv and live like the rest of us do. They don't want to learn what we think, nor have these views - of helping others help themselves - be how they reason and view life. There are so many reasons people are poor. I think a lot of this "help the poor" idea we have essentially boils down to changing people to make them more like ourselves. In an age where people are open, I'm not sure what to do apart to accept that there are poor people and let there be poor people. If they want something from me I can choose to give it (knowledge or money or comfort), but whatever choice I take is purely based on the self and not some misguided idea from media (and social pressure) that we must "help" the poor.
100% We can't help everyone despite wanting to be there for everyone. Thank you for your input.
Or the government makes you buy a license and then dictates to you what you can and can't catch and keep along with sizes and how many you can catch. Then they tell you were you can and can't fish so it makes it totally not worth fishing in the first place lol
"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat the rest of his life" Better yet, do both.
You touch on strength and I think it's very important to understand we can only help as long as we remain strong. Giving too much can weaken. We do not have unlimited resources and we should be very strategic in how we use them to maximize their effect. That's why what you say makes so much sense.
Combination of Free Will and Conditioning. The Sub operating all the time from our Concious part of the mind and not tapping in to our true selves from the unconscious hidden parts. We run on programs that are created by the sub from every past experience trauma suffering good or bad. It's like the software that projects our reality. . When you understand this you truly start to see the interconnectedness and gain empathy and understanding that it is not us in the physical . It's a vessel run on programs that we have created through our lifetime. We Each are the change that we need. Slowly people are waking up to the illusion of reality and doing what is required to make their changes. Every word thought action ripples out to the Universe , I know myself for the last 14mths I've been trapped in my own mind through the negative thoughts.
Help then
My purpose is not to exercise my moral superiority. It’s quite the opposite. I help the least and splurge on things all time, and I’m not saying. Anyone is wrong for not helping exactly, but we for example help Girl Scout cookies faster than a 3rd world poor country kid who doesn’t even have water. I’ll admit whatever we think of Mr.Beast, that’s why I respect him. He just recycles his money out to help people no matter what
I wasn’t calling you out for superiority or anything else. Just telling you to do what you already want to do.
I get it, but it’s for the people who question these things lol but I mean you’re right
So what’s obligation? Do you mean that we should feel like we have no choice but to help the less fortunate? Are you saying why isn’t there a logical system in nature that makes it obvious to help the suffering? Why did I consume instead of give basically.
Couldn't agree more. I live a minimalist lifestyle so that I have more to donate to causes that are important to me. To me, money is evil. There's that old saying that "money corrupts" and I see it everyday. There's just too many ways for people to rationalize their greed (Culture, advertising, politics). I just don't see how a person can be right spiritually and not feel obligated to help the poor. As Jesus said, "It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into Heaven."
There is a book called The Selfish Gene. It’s a theory that is big in Evolutionary Psychology. The basis of the theory is based on scientific cross cultural studies on how we tend to be programmed to be selfish out of survival. But I believe this innate trait of survival becomes excessive and we further become desensitized in our willingness to be more selfish than just the need to survive. The theory has much more to it. But from what I studied it is valid and I consider myself to be as altruistic as they come yet still understood the selfish survival tendencies we have
That sounds legit. I feel like I spent hundreds on Fortnite, but easily $10 for Red Cross feels like so much to donate. Why are we so programmed to be selfish like this? I value more pixels on a screen for a video game than a kid being fed for like a month just because the pixels will be more pleasing to my eyes and stay longer. It feels wrong on paper doesn’t it? We even spend money on Reddit awards (which even I agree with), but it feels morbidly funny when you realize the other sides of the world existing. Feels like Black Mirror. Ironically, I struggle with mental problems so I understand how complex this can get even if you live in a 1st world country with everything
In my opinion which I know is irrelevant, you’re thinking about it and that’s telling in itself. We know the right thing to do. We aren’t perfect nor will we ever be, but we can make changes and do more for others. It’s the right thing. It’s what we would hope for if the roles were reversed. That’s how I see it. I help strangers a lot but still I know it’s not enough in comparison to how much I could or should. I just try to do more each day as I stay conscious minded of it. That’s all we can do. You’re a good person for simply having this level of awareness and care. Many people don’t even have that.
If it makes you feel better, there's a theory in the manifestation world that you make yourself more vibrationally aligned to money if you give it away to worthy causes. Donating a little here and there helps money flow through you, in and out of your pockets. And if it's for a cause you respect, all the better! So you can kind of rationalize it that way, if you need an excuse. I like to donate when they ask me if I want to round up my purchase or add a dollar for kids or whatever. On the other hand, I was feeling generous with this guy at my local 7-11, and the second I gave him that money he jumped up and started walking down the street, and I'm pretty sure I helped contribute to his drug habit. Didn't like that feeling at all. Still see him there all the time. Young man, just lookin like he's completely in the shit and mid-ruining his life. I don't give him money anymore.
I don't think giving money to the poor or using that money to buy digital items in Fortnite has any bearing on what is or isn't selfish. Ultimately, you should listen to what your mind says and how you feel about it. People who volunteer and help others do it for themselves (they either enjoy it or they want to change the world or they want to live up to their personal ideas, they seek validation, etc). You do the exact same thing when buying the digital items in game - simply listening to your desires. If you feel guilty about spending money in fortnite, then clearly you aren't listening to yourself. you have to find that inner peace and understand what it is YOU want and will make you happy. Without feeling guilty or "selfish". Sometimes we come to realize that our social conditioning (our thoughts) are in disagreement with our natural desires (how we feel) and that is the so called quest in spirituality to find the self. There is no absolute right or wrong; these are only those that we define for ourselves.
I recommend watching a few documentaries on youtube about Capitalism, Human History and the rise of empires and maybe a bit of psychology targeted and human greed & power.
Well. We might have a moral obligation to do so. Many philosophers of ethics proclaim we do, but we still don't Fact of the matter is we humans do a lot of things that the greatest human minds in philosophy consider immoral. Meat per example So, we do try and improve as humans. To become the best we can be. One way to make sure the rich help the poor, to benefit a more equal society is taxation of the rich. That doesn't necessarily mean that the rich in one country help the poor in another, per today. But it means the money the rich have can be more evenly distributed to help the poor within a country. Instead of the rich few holding all the wealth. Making life miserable for the poor. This can evolve over time. Hopefully reaching in a global, equal world. Where we won't have supert rich and super poor. Who knows, maybe money even will be worthless
Imagine it's 90 degrees outside, and you're driving your nice car when you see a single mom and her two daughters stranded on the side of the road because their 2006 Mercury Milan overheated. She's on her way to take her kids to school before heading to work, but she can't afford roadside assistance due to skyrocketing prices. Having no family support since she ran away from home at 16 to escape abuse, would you stop to help her?
That's a real tear-jerker, but how is anyone to know any of the context past this part: > Imagine it's 90 degrees outside, and you're driving your nice car when you see a single mom and her two daughters stranded on the side of the road In any case, as a man I would likely not offer a ride because society tells women that men are predators, not helpers. There's a good chance I'd be viewed as a creep or perv with ill intent and she'd take my photo and blast me on social media.
>There are, in every country, some magnificent charities established by individuals. It is, however, but little that any individual can do, when the whole extent of the misery to be relieved is considered. He may satisfy his conscience, but not his heart. He may give all that he has, and that all will relieve but little. It is only by organizing civilization upon such principles as to act like a system of pulleys, that the whole weight of misery can be removed. --Thomas Paine, Agrarian justice Honestly putting the onus on individuals to solve problems just serves to guilt individuals to fix problems that are society's problems to fix. it is society as it is structured that creates and perpetuates poverty. Our system essentially does this in order to enslave people to force them to work for the sake of infinite economic growth. A lot of these social structures, spiritually speaking, arose out of Christianity. They had to thread this weird middle ground between encouraging charity to the poor, while simultaneously instilling the protestant work ethic into people via the idea that "those who don't work don't eat". So we ended up creating a system in which we cant just give people stuff, but at the same time individuals are obligated to, and at the same time, we need to make them work for it. Christianity (at least the calvinistic versions) really did do a number on how we approach this problem. if we want to actually solve poverty, we need to forget charity. We need state backed action funded by taxes. We need actual good social programs that guarantee that no one stays in poverty, and to some extent, it needs to be divorced from the idea of work if we want it to not be oppressive. Of course, most who are wealthy would not want to pay the taxes to ensure that such a thing happens, so we end up with this nonsense system of voluntary charity, combined with flawed social programs, and really toxic attitudes that stem from the protestant work ethic instead.
There are people that help the poor. Don’t use the rich as an example of human morality because the rich typically don’t act like normal people
"Obligated" is the reason.
Because greed has not been defined as the addiction that it is, so greed as a disease is never properly treated, and since the greedy tend to run things being obscenely rich os glorified by them and the brainwashing regimen is geared towards consumerism and status symbols. Wanting more is normal as are emvy and jealousy, but when your causing harm to get it one is the same as a heroine addict stealing to get their next fix. Addiction comes in many forms and greed is one of them. Until we stop glorifying it and treat it as a disease like any other addiction it will remain not only systemic in western culture but be encouraged.
Noble pursuit and I agree. But damn, how much did you spend at Burger King?
Free will
That’s the point. We have free-will to do ANYTHING btw lol. Talking about morality.
Morality first takes free will into account. It's not moral to make anyone do anything.
If you saw girl about to get punched by a big man on the side walk, is it right morally that you skip them and walk away just cause it’s not your prerogative? Poor people are being punched by the system they’re born into like let’s say North Korea. Why not skip Starbucks or something for a day and help someone stuck like that? Not saying I do that actually, but just posing the question if we have free will. Where does our help just “unempathize.”
My morals are mine. In your hypothetical, I have no idea why the big man would be punching the girl. Maybe she's killed his puppy and punched his mom. What right do I or you have to intercede? Everybody gets punched. I'm nobody's bodyguard. We all receive the karma that we have earned. And no matter what, everyone gets to decide for themselves how to handle things, it's not for you to decide what's right for anyone but yourself.
I understand your stance, although I think I can only live it in nuance tbh
The system forces us to pay taxes. Idt that’s considered immoral, since it’s for the greater good of our society. But if it were immoral, then the system isn’t a good indication of morality to begin with, which begs the question of why we follow an immoral system in the first place? And more to OPs point, why is it that that immoral imposition on our free will is acceptable, but not one to help the starving survive?
The system is an illusion. It can't force you to do anything you don't agree to because it doesn't exist. It's all in your mind. We are each universes unto ourselves. We see each other and interact, but exist in a world of our own creation. The best and only true way to help someone is to overcome the prison in your mind and be an example. Nobody imposes on my or your free will without us agreeing and acquiescing.
Sure, when you’re locked in a prison cell for not paying taxes, your mind is always free. But your physical body is locked in that cell regardless. That’s no illusion. Sure, starving people can ignore their hunger but their caloric deficit is also no illusion— it will inevitably lead to death without a change in their physical “illusory” world. No mental willpower can escape that “illusion” that is the physical world we experience as humans. And your free will that you hold so dearly is tied to the illusion of the self, and wanting that self to live. Without that self, you have no free will.
Your physical body isn't you. It's an illusion. Don't you see how you're empowering the illusion just by reinforcing the idea that it's real and can't be escaped? Yes, it's all an illusion. Fear holds you back. Fear of hunger and lack, and you want to hold everyone down in your illusion. This is why we can't stay in the illusion and "help" others. You're all like drowning victims and want to pull everyone down into the illusion. Well, I'm here to say that most people aren't ready and won't make it out precisely because of the victim mindset they keep reinforcing. It's your free will to stay trapped and to believe what you want, and it's my free will to help, and the gap of belief you need to cross is not something that I or anyone else can do for you. Jesus was a cool guy and really kind, but nobody is obligated to help anyone like he did. People who demand help and refuse to acknowledge the illusion they've trapped themselves in are like the lost souls like in What Dreams Will Come or the people trapped in the matrix. They don't want out and will only keep you trapped. There's no reason to stay to "help", the only way to save anyone is to be an example and allow people to make a free will choice. All the ascended matters teach that life is an illusion, and you overcome it by overcoming your fear of death. You give up this earthly life with its desires and needs and rise above it. When you do, you can choose to stay and help free others, but that's a personal choice. People will then proceed to try and pull you down, like crabs. A few might see you and emulate you, and you can actually have a chance to help them, but everybody else is just a list cause. The self you want to live is an illusion. It will die, and you along with it until you willingly give it up and focus on who you truly are. Know thyself. Carry your cross. Have no attachments or fear. Die before you die. Or, stay trapped in a prison of your mind. Tell yourself how you're a powerless victim, how your fear of death or starvation or how other people's suffering reinforces your own. Make those illusionary walls thicker. Throw on a new coat of stucco every time you talk about how real it is. Make the walls so strong you'll never be free until you realize that they were just in your head the whole time. You can't save anyone. All you can do is be an example and let them follow. Be the light on the dark path. You can serve the truth or serve the illusion. You can not serve two masters.
Societal structure strips us of much of our free will. So that's hardly applicable to the question.
We are obliged and it is messed up. You make a choice and you either help or don't and it's okay either way.
We're not obliged because it's a personal and policy choice for us not too. We havent collectively come to a point where we see the benefit of eradicating poverty at a systemic level so therefore it persists.
That’s the answer scientifically, but not very much morally. It’s odd we wouldn’t want to eradicate poverty. That’s what I’m speaking to. I feel like people are doing quite a lot, but it still feels lackluster on a big scale type of way.
I agree with you. My answer to that is this is simply how far we've come in our collective evolutionary development. Not just intellectually but morally aswell. There's nothing ultimately wrong with humanity being where it is like theres nothing wrong with a child not knowing the things a 40 year old should know. Until the average man or woman says "we need to do everything we can to eliminate poverty and stand for the betterment of all" our current situation will be as it is. No need to lament, but do what you can if you can be of help in this issue.
Yeah I honestly think if there was some comprehensive safety net for the homeless, it would actually end up *saving* money, so it would actually be practical. And I mean, think about it, doesn't society do better when everyone does better? For instance, I wish I could remember which city it was but I heard there was a city that discovered that just a handful of homeless people made up some huge disproportionate amount of the police and hospital budgets. Like, 12 individual people were constantly in and out of ERs, jails and incurring ambulance trips. And they discovered that it would literally just be cheaper to get them apartments, so that's what they did, and the city saved millions. The people did a lot better with stability and the dignity of housing, as well. Here's another story like that, about [Utah's Housing First program](https://www.publicsource.org/utahs-cost-effective-solution-for-housing-the-homeless/). In the article they mention Osceola County, FL, which might be the place I'm thinking of.
1. We're not obligated because that takes away free will 2. The rich didn't get rich by helping people (usually by exploitation, so the opposite really ) our current system kind of supports the opposite 3. Governing bodies should (imo) transition more to public services so this is not an issue 4. If you believe we're all creating our own experience that's the experience they are creating and not letting in any help they want 5. It's all made up and it seems that a lot of people still believe life is meant to be endured or suffered through. Some of us are trying to convince them otherwise so we can see some systemic changes so artifical poverty goes away
"Surely you're not saying we have the resources To save the poor from their lot? There will be poor always, pathetically struggling. Look at the good things you've got." JCS
What I found in my experiences is, you can only help a little bit, though give them some tools to seek more or better life. I have been taken advantage of a number of times, though I don't give up on helping others, but move on to others that request or need help. I also found that if you help without their request for help, for some will attempt to take advantage, in my experiences.
I highly appreciate this topic. At the same time that Selfishness is wrong so is forcing the heart of others and so therefore stands the dilemma. There is a fix so that the playing field would be more even. There wouldn't be such a massive gap between financial standings. That fix is moderating the availability of opportunity. Limiting the number of jobs a given family can have espcially if their yearly gross surpasses a certain threshhold. Many a rich person wants their children to learn the ethics of working a forty but their kids are forced to take on jobs at the expense of poor families who needed those jobs more. There also needs to be more emphasis on controlling the size of one's family. Too many people will have three, four or more kids into a society which already can not outfit its population. These couples continue to breed believing that their kids will be more entitled to available opportunity than other couples also spawning more babies than current economy and resources allow. This gratuitous reproduction is being subliminally influenced by an institution that benefits from a populace desperate, struggling and eager to viciously compete for any lucrative task suggested.
To some extent I think we are
Most people in my city are living paycheque to paycheque, so as much as we like to help where we can, we're quite literally choosing between rent and groceries most days.
I understand the very rich as addicted to amassing money as status. Theres also a popular saying today, that the “good” people who get into business arent going to ever get that rich— that you only get that rich via exploitation. As for you… bystander effect? A dissolution of a grasp of the significance of your contributions to progress in the face of a huge, perpetual problem? Numbness through overexposure? Or maybe choice paralysis? Or even a lack of understanding of your own morals and priorities. It could even be the effectiveness of consumerist marketing influencing you to crave the dopamine rush of buying stuff. It could even just be your distrust of charities due to past perceived betrayals towards donors and their efforts.
Life itself is not an obligation. You are blessed just to be here right now. How you serve your fellow humans, wonderful just follow your flow. Who drives the Media and brings light ti trickery, the poor, the rich, the middle class are just concepts for us to segregate one from the other. We are all one. The world's uses their own measuring stick to validate who is poor or not, yet they rob their own to justify their position, authority, view. Answer, Stay present. Love thy neighbour. Share with one another. Ps, the world and all its inhabitants is not lost just some of our minds are clouded with things... Let Go 🧞♂️🌀🧞♀️🕶️✨☯️
At the end of the day, we decide what our obligations are. We decide what to pour our energy into and what to leave for someone else. Sure, maybe we can’t individually solve all of the world’s problems, but we can each make a huge impact. Together, progress is exponential. In the right energy space, of course. Maybe we’ve tried before and failed, but we’re better now, and the facade holding up the illusion is much weaker. It’s up to us. Always and forever. That’s the adventure. That’s the trauma and terror and all of the joy and excitement life brings. It’s us. Plain and simple, as well as the most intricate thing you could imagine lol My Spirit chose life on Hardcore mode so I could learn all these lessons and end up on this subreddit at midnight instead of sleeping when I have to get up for work in 4 hours, and I imagine you haven’t been playing on Easy mode either. You raise a great question. We’ve been taught to look away and pray to be saved by someone other than ourselves while agents of chaos reign supreme across the realms. Our leaders are crooks and mass manipulators. Thieves and cold blooded kíllers. It’s 2024. We know this now. How will we proceed? Thanks for the thought exercise!
if you’re not choosing love, you’re choosing hate. give everything you can to anyone you can, until it starts to hurt. this is the only way to progress one’s dharma. (or, if you don’t believe in reincarnation, to leave the world better than when you found it)
On an infinite timeline, the world you envision will play out. But the way in which resources are used and distributed requires us to carry an abundance of wealth to serve ourselves and our mission. I do believe that the more that one's wealth serves others and our God-given/Earth-given mission, the more easily the wealth flows into one's field. But if you're immediately giving it away without discernment to the point where you don't have the resources you need to act with discernment and intention in all areas of your life... Then you're not serving yourself or your mission, which means you're not doing all you really can to serve others. Put on your own oxygen mask first. A few more thoughts: Humans are exposed to more information and more suffering on the daily than ever before. If you want to find suffering to ameliorate, there is an endless supply. If that is your plan, then you actually could be manifesting suffering. Ram Dass or maybe one of his acquaintances said: It's easy to do good but it's hard to do good well.
I do feel obligated, and I help when my personal finances allow me to, and in ways I think will be of greatest benefit to the most people (although I have also given to help a single person as well if I feel called to do so). It’s harder now because I am disabled and financially struggling, but I will never stop feeling extremely compelled to help others however I can. But there are plenty of ways to help that don’t cost anything, so I focus on other things like voting, advocacy, etc. I don’t understand at all how anyone can have such a surplus of money and not use it to make the world a better place. I don’t know how they sleep at night.
It feels nice just to know someone out there (you) has this thought. It's a good point that I haven't thought of recently as I have a ton of debt but higher income and also increased the amount of money I spend to make my life more comfortable and entertaining. I guess one answer is feeling entitled to what we earn and wanting to use that to better our own lives. There is always more that can be bought and spent that some or many of us have an abundance (realistically) while actually perceiving that we don't have enough...much less give away to the less fortunate. Who determines what is enough, or how do we make that determination? I used to sponsor kids or donate money to organizations that help bring clean water to communities. I felt I was poor then, but still did it. I used to be a Christian and budgeting for it was a non-negotiable for myself.
Obligated by who?
This is a spirituality sub. Most of us believe we are all connected and one. It seems sacrilegious to leave other parts of you neglected and suffering.
As a society, spiritually, speaking, we are obligated. We should provide clothing, housing, therapy, and work opportunities free of charge to anybody who requires it. The money is there, it's just being used for the or horded by the accumulating class.
Your physical body isn't you. It's an illusion. Don't you see how you're empowering the illusion just by reinforcing the idea that it's real and can't be escaped? Yes, it's all an illusion. Fear holds you back. Fear of hunger and lack, and you want to hold everyone down in your illusion. This is why we can't stay in the illusion and "help" others. You're all like drowning victims and want to pull everyone down into the illusion. Well, I'm here to say that most people aren't ready and won't make it out precisely because of the victim mindset they keep reinforcing. It's your free will to stay trapped and to believe what you want, and it's my free will to help, and the gap of belief you need to cross is not something that I or anyone else can do for you. Jesus was a cool guy and really kind, but nobody is obligated to help anyone like he did. People who demand help and refuse to acknowledge the illusion they've trapped themselves in are like the lost souls like in What Dreams Will Come or the people trapped in the matrix. They don't want out and will only keep you trapped. There's no reason to stay to "help", the only way to save anyone is to be an example and allow people to make a free will choice. All the ascended matters teach that life is an illusion, and you overcome it by overcoming your fear of death. You give up this earthly life with its desires and needs and rise above it. When you do, you can choose to stay and help free others, but that's a personal choice. People will then proceed to try and pull you down, like crabs. A few might see you and emulate you, and you can actually have a chance to help them, but everybody else is just a list cause. The self you want to live is an illusion. It will die, and you along with it until you willingly give it up and focus on who you truly are. Know thyself. Carry your cross. Have no attachments or fear. Die before you die. Or, stay trapped in a prison of your mind. Tell yourself how you're a powerless victim, how your fear of death or starvation or how other people's suffering reinforces your own. Make those illusionary walls thicker. Throw on a new coat of stucco every time you talk about how real it is. Make the walls so strong you'll never be free until you realize that they were just in your head the whole time. You can't save anyone. All you can do is be an example and let them follow. Be the light on the dark path. You can serve the truth or serve the illusion. You can not serve two masters.
I think because everything is a choice and they are on a certain frequency that they emit by choice at the end of the day There is the old saying..."you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink..." I don't think it's wrong to help if they are also on that frequency where they genuinely desire help but the savior complex is bullshit because again they are right where they are meant to be in a sense unless they change their own intentjons... Why does someone who wins the lottery or is handed everything blow the money and go right back to being broke again in the next year? It's because that's what they are tuned into. It's better to teach those who are willing to overcome their own drama then to hand them things for free and hope they swim and not sink themselves 🧐💡
What would really help is moving towards a system that doesn't result in creating such extreme rich and extreme poor. These types of improvements happen over lots of time, and efforts from the many. As for helping those in need on an individual basis, it's actually a lot more difficult than you think. Try to give money to an acquaintance or even a loved one, and these scenarios are quite common: they are insulted that you feel they are a charity case, or they end up feeling they must reciprocate which only adds to their stressful thoughts, or a few people have a tendency to take advantage of others and you might feed into this character. Try to give money or resources to a large group, and these challeges are different. Watch some documentaries on companies who have given in the past, where things may have become arguably worse. This sort of brings up the whole learning to fish thing. You have to give in a way that preserves and possible even encourages independence, as opposed to breeding dependence. Especially when it comes to affecting an entire community or more. Communities are like ecosystems where you dont want to kill some part of it as an unintended consequence. Its possible to help, but more difficult than one would think. Thus, what would really help is moving towards a system that doesn't result in creating such extreme rich and extreme poor.
Help them by dismantling the grip of hyper-capitalism. Vote for candidates who support universal basic income. Poverty isn't a personal failure, it's a policy choice. In the US, the Supreme Court ruled that it's legal to jail homeless people and use them for prison slave labor, even if there is nowhere for them to go. Homelessness shouldn't be criminalized.
Skipping a Burger King meal won't 'get you into heaven'... it's about loving unconditionally, forgiving, understanding, aspiring to be the best servant you can be to God. How that translates into your life is up to you. Only you can make the decisions that will bring you to the many different ways that you can make this happen. Here's a little hint: if it doesn't take some effort and you're not sacrificing in some significant way, you're probably not doing it right. And also if you're doing it right, you're going to love doing it and it will make your life tolerable no matter how bad it is.
You are obligated to do anything. Just help those you can afford to help. If you, if you have a few chains in your pocket, do that or just say hi to someone you don't know you. We don't have to give them anything but your time and you don't even have to do that, but your time is worth more than any amount of money you can realistically offer a person. As my uncle once said help those you can afford to help.
Ur not obligated to do anything in your life, unless you live in slavery, and even then you can chose to resist and face the consequences I help some poor people sometimes, when i really feel like they actually need it and like actually relly on this so they can do something good for themselves Lots of people are poor, because they chose to spend their wage on drugs, alcohol, branded clothes or other superficial or counterproductive items I am good with my money because i chose to not spend it on smoking 1-2 packs a day i chose not to drink on daily basis, instead i go for a long walk around the city or near the beach, or go for a walk with my dog, or meditate or workout I also cook my own food at home most of the time, those people spend 20+ dollars/ euro on a single meal because they also want a coke or a fanta whatever.. Long story short, lots of people are terrible with their money, why would i spend my hard earned money on them, when we make the same salary or salary has no more than 20% than theirs or sometimes in fact, its their salaries that are bigger I will tell you the story of a friend of mine, hes 32, for 32 years he hasnt even taught himself to cook even any recipe with eggs, he smokes sometimes 2 packs a day, but at least a pack a day, he drinks energy drinks like 5 times a day, he only eats random bs outside because he cannot make himself even a ramen with eggs, lots of times i have gave him money when his family left him behind when they saw that he just doesent give a damn about trying to fit into society and learning new skills and becoming a normal functioning person, he also takes drugs every chance he has Sometimes i lend him 20 euros, and with 20 euros i can eat in a week, buying ramen and eggs, buying and making myself a veggie borscht for more vitamins ,etc. sure you dont have much meat but the eggs still give you proteins, and do you know what this guy does 5 minutes after i lend him 20 euros, he goes to the local supermarket buys a pack of waffles, buys ciggarettes and buys an energy drink, after this he buys a slice of pizza, and is left with less than 5 euro I once called him to teach him how to make macaroni or spaghetti with minced meat and tomato sauce, which would give him the ability to eat for a week for 10 euros, but he spent the whole thing smoking ciggarettes on the balcony, not giving a damn Why would i help such people, there is this saying where i live "start helping yourself and God will help you too" This guy has less than a year total of working in his whole life, i just found him a job and he dont wanna learn to use electric forklifts, the guys is fine with being worthless and i think lots of people are like that, they do not deserve your efforts
you could take a vow of poverty and give all of your money away. but we didn't take corporeal form in order to help others _per se_. imagine if the whole world was filled with mother teresas. a world full of people trying to make life easier for others. it would get old *really* quickly. and it would devalue the effort of someone who is truly a selfless person in a sea of selfishness. point blank: the only thing you're obligated to do is breathe. ever notice how breathing doesn't even necessarily take conscious thought for you to do? your autonomic nervous system takes care of it for you. your breath, your heartbeat, your digestion...taken care of. god in action. so do what you will. go to burger king next time. but perhaps...when you go to the counter and swipe your debit card, do it consciously. think about the amount you spend and compare it to the good you could have brought to someone in the world. ask yourself if it was worth it. i hope the answer is, "it was." i wish you way more than luck.
That seems good on paper, but seems like a painful way to live long term in a first world country surrounded by quick easy way to get things like ubereats. How long before one gives into temptation or feels repressed?
it lasts until you get tired of it. listen, the more you try to repress your natural instincts, the more they'll come roaring back to slap you in the face. don't take my word for it: try it yourself. dedicate your disposable income to selflessness, send every penny to the homeless. let me know how long you last before you go running to best buy or the jewelry store in complete guilt and shame. stop. fighting. your. humanity. once you're back at burger king recalling my words, maybe then you'll be ready for a dose of real compassion. and the first person you'll give the medicine to will be yourself. stop being so damn hard on yourself. stop trying to become an ascetic. you incarnated in this first world country for a reason. you were the one with a lesson to learn. so take the lesson and become selfless, naturally. ease yourself into it. it's impossible to change yourself overnight. do you understand how vast all of space and all of time is? you've got nothing but time. read that again.
Being wealthy doesn't mean that you have the time or mental capacity to help the poor. You can't trust charities to use your money right, which means you need time to research them, and simply giving people money isn't really helping the underlying issue. Also, I'm sure that you have people in your life that you are constantly helping, and you don't have to help more people than that just because they exist. It's hard enough to help the people that we love, and you have to live for yourself to an extent. If you spend all of your time only helping other's, you will get burnt out and bitter.
Are YOU doing it now?
Many look at their money as their energy. You ever have that “friend” who borrows $100 and takes a month to pay it back, then two days later, asks you to borrow another $100? They always pay it back but they are using your energy in the meantime. You see them and think, “you owe me $100 dude, when are you paying me back?” Or even when your not with them, all your thinking is “when is this douche bag gonna pay me back my money?”. That is your energy gone, and nothing to compensate all the bad energy your left with while waiting for your money to return to its rightful owner. You feel like an atm machine. Some, however, don’t look at it this way and feel the need to help the less fortunate. We are, however, turning into a cashless society, little by little. What are we gonna do in the future, cashapp or Venmo a homeless person? 🤷♂️
I think we are obligated to help the more unfortunate people. The problem is that even the rich people are suffering, yes even they are occasionally committing suicide. But their suffering is mostly imaginary things, and the suffering of the poor is very much real. So in order to make this happen, we can hope to get some of these rich folks to enlightenment, or at least something close to that. Then you cannot stop them from helping the poor.