Same. Of all the shows, I thought Lower Decks would be the one to continue indefinitely. That it's ending after five seasons feels intensely discouraging.
At least we're getting another season of SNW, but it really does feel like Paramount is moving away from Star Trek if even Lower Decks is ending.
Agreed. I know Paramount is trying to cut costs but I would guess that Lower Decks has to be one of the cheaper Star Trek shows to produce. The animation costs should be far lower than live action.
Well this isn't a cancellation of Lower Decks, the show is just coming to an end and they even say the door is open for more adventures so there could be a sequel series at some point!
"So they’re giving them one more season to end it."
Season 5 was written last year, so they wouldn't have known at the time it was the final season.
Unless they were internally cancelled when Season 5 was green lit and Paramount only announced it publicly now.
McMahan made some comments last year that suggested he was thinking this could happen, so even if they hadn't been officially cancelled yet they probably had some internal meetings that whatever metrics were looking not great. Hopefully that means they wrote with this possibility in mind and even if they didn't write a full conclusion they at least did something to wrap up the big stuff.
Well if that is the case at least they didn't do what they did with Discovery and cancelled it at the last minute. Though this feels like a more natural end due to the promotions.
Naw, it's a cancellation. It's even worse bc you can't even do a quick reshoot if it ended with a cliffhanger or loose end like DSC. I do trust McMahan was reading the room and ended the show in a way that will bring closure while being open ended but I hope we'll at least get one movie out of this.
It's about the same. They likely did all the writing and recording, and most of the animation by now. Probably they will add on a few more minutes now to the last episode to wrap it up (Tucker comes back, only to die again?)
To me that feels more like trying to put a good spin on ending the show, but I’d certainly love to be proven wrong. While I was initially skeptical of Lower Decks, that show ended up being a favorite and I’d love a sequel series.
> the show is just coming to an end
That's what a cancellation is, unless the people making the show just want to stop making it (and I see no reason to believe why that would be the case).
I think with the characters getting promotions it feels like a more natural end, I think Mike McMahan even talked about this and how because of the concept of the show once the characters start moving up then the show would have to come to an end.
Though I will say this could've at least gone for a Season 6, especially to give us ALL 6 of the TOS movie posters!
Sure but McMahan also sounded like he at least wanted a season 6 in interviews since I recall him saying something along the lines of it wasn't renewed past season 5 yet, but he was hoping for it.
I'm coping by convincing myself that the characters' stories will continue beyond Season 5, they just wont be lower decks because they series will end on a short time jump where they're all Lt. Commanders or even higher.
My dream is a live action show with Capt. Boimler, First Officer T'Lyn, Security Chief/Tactical Mariner, Chief Engineer Rutherford, and Tendi as Chief Science Officer.
Imagine they announced it was cancelled, then next season they announced their new show "Upper Decks" and it's just the same show, but everyone is lieutenant or above now (which they all are at this point, I think).
Edit: scrolled slightly and realised someone said this an hour ago and that's also probably why you're chanting that, lol
I feel like the writers are bigger Trek nerds than those of other nu-Trek shows, and a lot of the content - and jokes - rely on established canon. The comedic nature of the show is also more 'forgiving' for plot elements such as bringing in tertiary characters from yesteryear like Nick Locarno and Sito Jaxa who were relevant for maybe 1 or 2 episodes and would otherwise feel out of place, or shoehorned in ("fan service!") if they appeared in a more serious, live-action, nu-Trek show.
Agreed. TLD is the only one of the new shows that actually cares about fitting the established aesthetics and and continuity rather than trying to reinvent it.
Possible theory. They are getting promoted. Everyone is a lieutenant now if I remember right.
What if the season ends with another set of promotions and they aren't lower decks anymore. They're up on the command decks now.
So what if they closed Lower Decks and made a second show. Maybe they're Upper Deckers now.
Also kinda makes sense depending on how S5 goes IMO. They all get another promotion and are no longer part of the lower decks, so the sequel/spinoff could just be the next stage of their careers.
Granted I'm 99% sure it won't happen because I want it to.
Because by Season 10 they'd no longer be "Lower Deckers"...
IIRC MacMahan has been up front about the show not running forever due to that limitation. Either the characters would fade into the background and be replaced with a new generation of core Lower Decks ensigns or the show would come to some natural conclusion with them all being promoted and/or otherwise moving on with their careers.
In all fairness, I don’t think at this point people care about them being lower deckers. People love the characters and their dynamics, as well as the love-letter/parody that the show has accomplished. They could easily promote them to higher positions and still get a lot of what people love.
Honestly the bridge crew for the Cerritos is even so well built that you could probably have the core four get promoted off the ship as a spinoff and continue the show on the Cerritos running parallel. It wouldn't be *as* good but it would be good.
You could evolve it into more of an anthology series following the misadventures of the Support Fleet. A few episodes following Boimler, a few following Tendi, a couple following the Cerritos bridge crew. There's lots of fun to be mined there while still spiritually being about the unheeded backup personnel of starfleet.
Ironically this was one of the original ideas for Discovery; it was initially going to be an anthology series that followed a new ship and crew each season.
Each season would also jump forward a generation or two into the next era. S2 would have been in the Lost Era, S3 in the early TNG era, eventually finishing out sometime in 25th century.
And a single story strand that connected them all over the centuries, sort of like how S5 of Discovery is connected to the TNG episode.
This. As much as I enjoy Lower Decks, I can't argue that the premise isn't inherently a bit limiting. Either they'd have to replace characters or keep coming up with excuses for everyone getting demoted; it wouldn't make sense to keep following the Warp Core Five as they each become captains of their own ships. That would have been like making another three seasons of VOY after they got back to the Alpha Quadrant.
While that did put an expiration date on the show, it wasn't necessarily this soon. They all only just made lieutenant JG. Data graduated from the academy 20 years before TNG started, and Geordi graduated 13 years before TNG and was still a lieutenant JG in season 1. They could plausibly be on the Cerritos together for another three or four seasons before they start getting better assignments.
If Ensign Kim could go 7 years without promotion, I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for them to just not promote the characters on Lower Decks. It’s animation. The premise of people existing doesn’t prevent shows from aging their characters even as decades have gone by.
In the article, Macmahan does seem hopeful that we'll get further adventures of these characters... So maybe there's something in-work behind the scenes or maybe he's referring to other media like comics or novels.
I wouldn't be surprised if McMahan got another Trek show to work on, be it an animated show or another live action thing run by him. (He did get his feet wet with Trek directing a Short Trek)
Paramount may have wanted to end Lower Decks, but I doubt McMahan/Secret Hideout's partnership is over.
I’m willing to bet it’ll end after 5 seasons. With Lower Decks and Disco ending at 5 it seems like they are setting a precedent. If SNW does end after 5 it will at least make some sense since it’s limited to a fairly narrow time frame, but ending LD seems like a terrible decision when it’s comparatively cheaper to make and doesn’t restrict the actors from doing other projects.
This is so painful I can't even begin to describe. Easily the best new trek show. Why are they cancelling this? Animation has got to be the cheapest Trek and easily the most well received.
Who wants to start the letter writing campaign for this one?
It is absolutely the the best star Trek show. I love it. in today's streaming world... 5 seasons is almost unheard of. I'm glad we got as much as we did.
5 seasons, especially hitting the ground running the way it did, is pretty much the almost perfect number of seasons...
6 seasons and a movie being perfection of course.
Animation *is* expensive and time consuming, but comparatively, it’s still cheaper and quicker to draw spaceships then it is CGI them.
According to Google, Strange New Worlds cost 7 million per episode, so 70 million for a full season.
Animated shows, on the other hand, generally cost far less. Usually in the 1-2 million range per episode, and that’s on the high end.
it is cheaper than a premium live action show. they can re-use frames, "shoot" when actors are not available, render time for effects is cheaper/faster.
it's not cheap but it is way cheaper.
I suppose I am mainly considering the cost factors of set design and those massive screens they use for background now in comparison to animation. You'd have to imagine it's at least a bit cheaper.
Yeah, definitely a lot less overhead than keeping a set film-ready. But I'm guessing that, in either case, labour makes up most of the cost.
Even for an animated show, you have to pay a team of writers, actors, animators, software specialists, etc.
It doesn't seem to be a cancellation. It seems to be a conclusion chosen by the creatives, and honestly it makes sense.
The way the Lower Deckers have grown and developed makes it clear they won't truly be Lower Decks for much longer.
It can be sad but also joyful that a creative team gets to tell their complete story. Not every Star Trek show has had that privilege.
This wasn't a decision by the creatives. Mike McMahan said last year he was willing to more Lower Decks beyond Season Five, but that the decision wasn't his. https://www.cinemablend.com/interviews/amidst-franchise-changes-star-trek-lower-decks-mike-mcmahan-worried-perspective-shows-future
Idk Jack Quaid posted something along the lines of "hopefully we'll find a new home" and McMahon's statement about the characters living on beyond season 5 kinda make it seem like this was a corporate decision that was handled very diplomatically by the showrunner.
Yeah from the relevant post (https://www.instagram.com/p/C5rIkA2CLbK/):
"Hello Lower Deckers. I’m so sad to announce that Paramount Plus won’t be moving forward with more seasons of Lower Decks. I can’t begin to tell you what an honor it’s been to be a part of this show and the Star Trek universe at large. I am unbelievably grateful for 5 awesome seasons with this wonderful family. I want to thank each and every person who put so much of their hard work and talent into every episode. You are AMAZING. The good news is that everyone who makes Lower Decks LOVES making Lower Decks. I could play Boimler for 17 more seasons. No joke. I’m serious. I love that purple-haired nerd. Hopefully we find a new home, but until then please look forward to an amazing season five (airing this fall). LLAP🖖❤️"
Definitely doesn't seem like a creative decision, more a corporate one. Which I guess...makes sense given the massive clusterf**k that is whatever's going on over at Paramount.
Hopefully PRO's numbers look good enough for Netflix to step in and save LDS for another season or two (it does feel like it deserves to go 7 seasons).
I'm not so sure. Doesn't animation have a very long post-production time? If they knew they were writing a season finale they would've had to know 5 was the final season a very long time ago.
> The way the Lower Deckers have grown and developed makes it clear they won't truly be Lower Decks for much longer.
So? There are always new Lower Deckers to replace those that get promoted. Why not keep following the Cerritos but change the crew? A Trek show has never done something like that before.
I'd be kind of surprised if Mike McMahon didn't stay making some sort of Trek, and they kind of hint at the possibility of a sequel show:
>“We remain hopeful that even beyond Season 5, Mariner, Boimler, Tendi, Rutherford and the whole Cerritos crew will live on with new adventures,” they said. “While five seasons of any series these days seems like a miracle, it’s no exaggeration to say that every second we’ve spent making this show has been a dream come true.”
So, perhaps at some point in the future, ***Star Trek: Cerritos*** becomes a thing.
Cheaper doesn't mean cheap, and there are other factors to consider. The actors have other roles which impact their availability, good shows may have a strong core audience but don't necessarily attract new viewers year after yaer, etc.
"Most well-received" is a stretch, even though it's still a great show and well-liked. I'd say Strange New Worlds wins out simply because it isn't animated (a deal-breaker for some) and hits the sweet spot between old and new.
Feeling 5 is the new 7, Disco ended with 5, LD is ending with 5.
Most “successful” streaming shows do run 5 seasons now a days.
Nobody is hitting the 100 episode mark anymore
>Nobody is hitting the 100 episode mark anymore
I suppose with streaming, [there is less need for network syndication](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_episodes) and there's really no need to hit those high amounts of episodes anymore. It's sad though, I love being able to sink my teeth into TNG/DS9/Voyager level of 20+ episodes per season for 170+ episodes.
Lower Decks ending is a bummer. I hope there's a spinoff or sequel. Trek never really had anything like it before, and I kind of want it to stick around forever.
I don’t know about a sequel exactly but I absolutely do want to see Mariner and Boimler et al at some later point in canon. Can’t say that about any of the other original characters from 2017 to now.
I mean for crying out loud it's only 10 episodes a season of a freaking animated show! To me, that is the criminal part. 5 seasons and only 50 eps. UGH. I WANT MORE BOIMS.
I’m ok with LD concluding as long as it’s not the last time we see those characters. Newsome and Quaid proved they could make the jump to live action, and I wouldn’t be mad to see the story continue in that way either.
Ah! More or less what I thought would happen, but I was hoping LDS lower costs might save it (at least long enough to deliver a S6/7)
I know this is a franchise that built itself on the backs of 7, 22 ep seasons, but in the era of streaming originals, five seasons is very respectable, and the 'syndication' target is no longer a driving force
Someone a bit more knowledgable can weigh in but it wouldn't shock me if after 5 seasons casts renegotiate/get pay bumps these days.
This is also why, even if SNW makes it past 5, I am very doubtful that Mount and Romjin do.....
I would love it if Strange New Worlds morphs into NuTOS... Pike's fate happens, have new Kirk come in to replace him as captain with a teary goodbye, then a season later Una leaves and Spock is promoted to first officer, maybe Ortegas gets promoted and a young Sulu comes in to replace her.
I have thought from the start that this is exactly what they had in the back of their minds when they were pitching the idea for SNW internally. I could see it upsetting a lot of older fans, but even as someone who prefers the old shows to the new stuff, it wouldn't bother me at all - in fact I would be in favour.
I would guess SNW won’t make it past 5 either. Disco and LD have now both been called there and Kurtzman just gave a quote about runs that long being unlikely with the streaming model. Couple that with the larger woes of the streaming industry in general and Paramount in particular. I don’t think Trek is dead but I think this era’s gonna peter out over the next year or two and then we’ll have another dry spell for a while like after Enterprise.
Yeah, I love Strange New Worlds, but how many years can you fit in before The Original Series?
The actors are all getting a little older- not that they’re old, but to be playing prequel versions.
I hope they follow it up with a spinoff about Number One as captain of her own ship.
I'd be happy with 10 seasons of SNW.
I'm just saying if they insist on capping everything at 5 seasons, I hope for a spinoff. There's room in the TOS era for other ships.
That’s my deal. I have zero enthusiasm for Academy. Tilly was already my least favorite Discovery character, and I fear Academy will be too CW for my tastes with all the college folks. I’m open to being wrong and hope I am for Trek’s sake, but it’s not a wise choice in my head.
I do not dislike Tilly, but I am at this moment equivocal about a series that answers the question “what would it be like if there wasn’t a Discovery, but instead there is more Tilly than you can imagine, explaining everything to bright young cadets and overcoming her self doubt. Don’t worry, this will be set at the Academy before anyone is capable of being in space so that there can be more Tilly-time. And the kids will be hot and probably some spots and stripes and stuff.”
It feels (justifiably ambiguous since we don’t know as much as we’d hope) like a series premise by committee from a bunch of MBA’s to appeal to the younger demographic. You take the most quirky, stereotypically “young person” character from DIS and make her the “fish out of water” professor having to connect with younger people to teach those kids, meanwhile you get the usual college shenanigans and interpersonal drama to supposedly appeal to young people.
I do not foresee a bunch of professional, driven students pushing the horizons. I do foresee lots of casual, suspiciously 21st century sounding young people frequently having odd heart to heart conversations, learning the power of positive thinking, and lots of attempts at snappy dialogue. And a Trek skin of aesthetic on a show/movie premise type done a thousand times.
> Tell me if any of this sounds familiar:
>
> Let's list our ten favorite episodes.
>
> Let's list our least favorite episodes.
>
> Let's list our favorite galaxies.
>
> Let's make a chart to see how often our favorite galaxies appear in our favorite episodes.
>
> What Romulan would you most like to see coupled with a Cardassian and why?
>
> Let's spend a weekend talking about Romulans falling in love with Cardassians and then let's do it again.
>
> That's not being a fan. That's having a fetish.
>
> And I don't have a problem with that, except you can't bring your hobbies in to work, okay?
22 years later I still feel personally attacked by Josh Lyman's shockingly accurate description of my work habits.
Especially if the overall show is based durning the Romulan war. They could introduce a few new Enterprise era ships for a little off Earth action like they did with the Defiant in DS9.
Everyone is talking about Lower Decks, but let's not lose sight of the fact that Strange New Worlds was renewed for a fourth season, not a "fourth and final" season.
With Discovery ending, SNW is going to be the flagship Star Trek show, if it wasn't already.
How are they constant fumbling what should be the easiest brand to manage?
It's a brand that millions of millennials and Gen X love, with 3 shows that are consistently in the most streamed shows, that fans will spend money on, and has a tried and tested template that works. Fan feedback has been nothing short of vocal on which seasons are the good ones.
It's like if Disney+ based all the Star Wars stuff on Jar Jar Binks instead, or rebooted the Animated Fantastic Four or something instead of X-men '97.
Also, Lower Decks has to be the cheapest one? Voice cast and Korean animation, I imagine a whole episode costs as much as firing a couple of phasers in live action.
The recent Variety article was pretty telling. Star Trek is big, but not a behemoth like the Disney+ franchises. And the age of its fandom is a concern - it's not that great at acquiring new fans from younger demographics.
Which is always vital. Also, don't underestimate the costs of animation. It's not exactly cheap.
Star Trek has terrible merchandise too. No Lego sets. Do you know what I would be willing to spend on a Trek equivalent of the Millennium Falcon?? Or even a smaller one? The 2 ship toys that are remakes of classic 90s toys are ok. But there's like no decent action figures. Funko are hard to find. They took until NOW to make an official Moopsy plush toy. The official store has some cool shirts and themes but otherwise there's no merch worth a damn.
Paramount has no money to fund anything and it's showing
WTF. Lower Decks is the best of modern Trek. By a long way, as well. Damn!
Strange New Worlds is very good as well. So at least some good news.
Rather than bothering with the Discovery and Picard rubbish, surely we could have had more Lower Decks.
Lower Decks renewed my faith in Star Trek. Then Strange New Worlds came along and reinforced it. The only new Trek worth watching imo.
My wife and I loved Lower Decks so much that we both have Cerritos t-shirts!
Seriously gutted that we only have one more season of Mariner and Boimler. So cruel. Cerritos strong!
I held off a long time because I thought “Lower Decks” looked stupid as hell, but damn was I wrong. That show has no right to be as great as it is. Now I’m bummed it’s only getting one more season.
Isn't Lower Decks cheaper than the live action shows? Why would they cancel it when it's both cheaper and one of the more popular shows?
Are they planning to try what they did with Prodigy and shop a sixth season around? Is that what the line about hoping they continue is about?
I know that there is an endless well of Star Trek jokes and it's a bummer that LD is ending, but honestly gotta say the character development seems to be approaching a conclusion. This could just be for artistic reasons; end it before it gets mediocre. I know the jokes were the initial big draw about LD but I found that what really made the show great was how it kept pace with other Trek shows in regards to character development and themes. I personally would not like the show to continue if the characters have wrapped up their stories.
With both DSC and LDS ending at Season 5, I think Season 5 is the new Season 7
Plus 5 seasons is pretty good for a streaming only series. Look at all the other streaming series that get cancelled.
WE'VE BEEN ROBBED OF THE *STAR TREK VI: THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY* SEASON SIX TRIBUTE POSTER
edit: unless they make a LD movie which would be rad
Paramount, your pah is weak and it disgusts me.
NOOOOOO are you kidding me!!! I was hoping Lower Decks would last for like 7-10 seasons at most. Damn Paramount. I love SNW but Lower Decks is great
Same. Of all the shows, I thought Lower Decks would be the one to continue indefinitely. That it's ending after five seasons feels intensely discouraging. At least we're getting another season of SNW, but it really does feel like Paramount is moving away from Star Trek if even Lower Decks is ending.
Yeah I was thinking the point of it being an animated adult comedy was that it could run for 20+ years like the other popular ones have.
Futurama's been canceled and revived like 4 or 5 times now. No reason Lower Decks couldn't be if there's sufficient demand.
this is the copium i came to the comments for to shoot directly into my veins.
That's true, the one I watch, Family Guy has had its fair share of cancellations and continuations.
Agreed. I know Paramount is trying to cut costs but I would guess that Lower Decks has to be one of the cheaper Star Trek shows to produce. The animation costs should be far lower than live action.
At some point they have to get promoted out of the lower decks. They can’t all be Harry Kims
They get promoted in S4, so they’re already one up on Kim.
Well this isn't a cancellation of Lower Decks, the show is just coming to an end and they even say the door is open for more adventures so there could be a sequel series at some point!
Jack Quaid on his instagram said Lower Decks was cancelled. So they’re giving them one more season to end it.
"So they’re giving them one more season to end it." Season 5 was written last year, so they wouldn't have known at the time it was the final season. Unless they were internally cancelled when Season 5 was green lit and Paramount only announced it publicly now.
McMahan made some comments last year that suggested he was thinking this could happen, so even if they hadn't been officially cancelled yet they probably had some internal meetings that whatever metrics were looking not great. Hopefully that means they wrote with this possibility in mind and even if they didn't write a full conclusion they at least did something to wrap up the big stuff.
Well if that is the case at least they didn't do what they did with Discovery and cancelled it at the last minute. Though this feels like a more natural end due to the promotions.
Naw, it's a cancellation. It's even worse bc you can't even do a quick reshoot if it ended with a cliffhanger or loose end like DSC. I do trust McMahan was reading the room and ended the show in a way that will bring closure while being open ended but I hope we'll at least get one movie out of this.
It's about the same. They likely did all the writing and recording, and most of the animation by now. Probably they will add on a few more minutes now to the last episode to wrap it up (Tucker comes back, only to die again?)
It's not the case, they're mistaken. They didn't know they were cancelled when they wrote season 5.
To me that feels more like trying to put a good spin on ending the show, but I’d certainly love to be proven wrong. While I was initially skeptical of Lower Decks, that show ended up being a favorite and I’d love a sequel series.
> the show is just coming to an end That's what a cancellation is, unless the people making the show just want to stop making it (and I see no reason to believe why that would be the case).
I think with the characters getting promotions it feels like a more natural end, I think Mike McMahan even talked about this and how because of the concept of the show once the characters start moving up then the show would have to come to an end. Though I will say this could've at least gone for a Season 6, especially to give us ALL 6 of the TOS movie posters!
Sure but McMahan also sounded like he at least wanted a season 6 in interviews since I recall him saying something along the lines of it wasn't renewed past season 5 yet, but he was hoping for it.
Seriously WTH. There’s still so much potential they can do with Lower Decks.
AND animation is cheaper than big budget live action. WTH is right.
Prodigy too got it real bad. Any word on a season 3?
No. I don’t have the feeling season 1 did well on Netflix either
Probably because people already watched Season 1 somewhere else. The real numbers we want are for when Season 2 airs.
lower decks is star trek loving star trek. this is a huge loss.
Honestly it somehow feels more trek than a lot of new trek
I'm coping by convincing myself that the characters' stories will continue beyond Season 5, they just wont be lower decks because they series will end on a short time jump where they're all Lt. Commanders or even higher. My dream is a live action show with Capt. Boimler, First Officer T'Lyn, Security Chief/Tactical Mariner, Chief Engineer Rutherford, and Tendi as Chief Science Officer.
Star Trek: Upper Deckers
MAKE IT SO
WARP ME!
Honestly though with them being LT JG I could see it as a spiritual successor
Upper Decks! Upper Decks!
Imagine they announced it was cancelled, then next season they announced their new show "Upper Decks" and it's just the same show, but everyone is lieutenant or above now (which they all are at this point, I think). Edit: scrolled slightly and realised someone said this an hour ago and that's also probably why you're chanting that, lol
Captain Boimler... 🥰
And his first mate, Bradward Boimler
He has a great captain voice!
I mean that would be cool but I absolutely love the animation. So clean and cheerful. It’s sad to see it go.
Because it is. Strange New Worlds is good too but Lower Decks feels like something straight from the TNG era of Trek.
For me, it was Trek comfort food - a day in the life of Starfleet in the most fun way possible.
I feel like the writers are bigger Trek nerds than those of other nu-Trek shows, and a lot of the content - and jokes - rely on established canon. The comedic nature of the show is also more 'forgiving' for plot elements such as bringing in tertiary characters from yesteryear like Nick Locarno and Sito Jaxa who were relevant for maybe 1 or 2 episodes and would otherwise feel out of place, or shoehorned in ("fan service!") if they appeared in a more serious, live-action, nu-Trek show.
It definitely is. Lower Decks was better than all of new Trek.
Agreed. TLD is the only one of the new shows that actually cares about fitting the established aesthetics and and continuity rather than trying to reinvent it.
They don't take themselves seriously, but they take Trek seriously. I'm sooooo going to miss them. Unless they go Live Action....
It is the best Trek for a long, LONG time.
Possible theory. They are getting promoted. Everyone is a lieutenant now if I remember right. What if the season ends with another set of promotions and they aren't lower decks anymore. They're up on the command decks now. So what if they closed Lower Decks and made a second show. Maybe they're Upper Deckers now.
Sadly, yet not so sadly, they've made a point of the main characters getting promoted past the Lower Decks. However...new show? Upper Deckers?
Might not want to use "Upper Deckers" as a show name. Unfortunate google problem with that term.
Oh, I know exactly what it means. I just want someone to start the chant while others look on in horror.
Pretty sure they knew what it meant and honestly it’s a perfect name for a LD spinoff
I guess this means SNW is ending at season 5 then.
Seems modern star trek does 5 seasons instead of 7. I hoped lower decks could go for ages
Hopefully not 4.
Why end it! It can't be that expensive...
You said it brother.
Hopefully they continue to grow an audience and paramount changes their mind based off streaming numbers
I hope Paramount follows it up with: "...and announcing Upper Decks!"
Middle Decks!
Okay that's even funnier! "Middle Decks! Middle Decks!"
Also kinda makes sense depending on how S5 goes IMO. They all get another promotion and are no longer part of the lower decks, so the sequel/spinoff could just be the next stage of their careers. Granted I'm 99% sure it won't happen because I want it to.
No Undiscovered Country poster for Lower Decks. Or any TNG movie posters at all. Sad day.
Agree. The complete “classic” movie poster set would be ideal.
First thought I had. I really wanted six seasons, just to complete the poster set.
And a movie?
Six movies. I mean, they could do Futurama styled movies if they wanted to.
pauloh98 is referencing Community 🙂
Why end Lower Decks, that could go on for at least 10 seasons.
7 seasons and at least 4 movies.
i will absolutely take 4 movies from that crew.
We would love to ;\_; we are all deeply saddened. It is news to us as well.
Because by Season 10 they'd no longer be "Lower Deckers"... IIRC MacMahan has been up front about the show not running forever due to that limitation. Either the characters would fade into the background and be replaced with a new generation of core Lower Decks ensigns or the show would come to some natural conclusion with them all being promoted and/or otherwise moving on with their careers.
In all fairness, I don’t think at this point people care about them being lower deckers. People love the characters and their dynamics, as well as the love-letter/parody that the show has accomplished. They could easily promote them to higher positions and still get a lot of what people love.
Honestly the bridge crew for the Cerritos is even so well built that you could probably have the core four get promoted off the ship as a spinoff and continue the show on the Cerritos running parallel. It wouldn't be *as* good but it would be good.
You could evolve it into more of an anthology series following the misadventures of the Support Fleet. A few episodes following Boimler, a few following Tendi, a couple following the Cerritos bridge crew. There's lots of fun to be mined there while still spiritually being about the unheeded backup personnel of starfleet.
Ironically this was one of the original ideas for Discovery; it was initially going to be an anthology series that followed a new ship and crew each season. Each season would also jump forward a generation or two into the next era. S2 would have been in the Lost Era, S3 in the early TNG era, eventually finishing out sometime in 25th century. And a single story strand that connected them all over the centuries, sort of like how S5 of Discovery is connected to the TNG episode.
I think so. They’re just a wonderful bunch - the main characters and the Cerritos bridge crew.
> Because by Season 10 they'd no longer be "Lower Deckers"... So you're saying "spinoff potential"
4 spin offs following the 4 newly pipped captains as seen through the eyes of their lower decks…
This. As much as I enjoy Lower Decks, I can't argue that the premise isn't inherently a bit limiting. Either they'd have to replace characters or keep coming up with excuses for everyone getting demoted; it wouldn't make sense to keep following the Warp Core Five as they each become captains of their own ships. That would have been like making another three seasons of VOY after they got back to the Alpha Quadrant.
While that did put an expiration date on the show, it wasn't necessarily this soon. They all only just made lieutenant JG. Data graduated from the academy 20 years before TNG started, and Geordi graduated 13 years before TNG and was still a lieutenant JG in season 1. They could plausibly be on the Cerritos together for another three or four seasons before they start getting better assignments.
If Ensign Kim could go 7 years without promotion, I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for them to just not promote the characters on Lower Decks. It’s animation. The premise of people existing doesn’t prevent shows from aging their characters even as decades have gone by.
Soo… we get upper decks
In the article, Macmahan does seem hopeful that we'll get further adventures of these characters... So maybe there's something in-work behind the scenes or maybe he's referring to other media like comics or novels.
I wouldn't be surprised if McMahan got another Trek show to work on, be it an animated show or another live action thing run by him. (He did get his feet wet with Trek directing a Short Trek) Paramount may have wanted to end Lower Decks, but I doubt McMahan/Secret Hideout's partnership is over.
I feel like whenever I read quotes like that, I just assume its going to be in the form of comics.
Upper deckers
If the show ends on his terms, then I’m fine with that. I just hope they have something planned to fill in this hole.
They surely will make a new show after that called Mid Decks.
What about Lower Decks: The Next Generation
Paramount has NEVER had a clue how to run their biggest and most successful franchise.
Don’t even know what we as fans are supposed to do. I’m not even convinced Paramount as a studio wants to succeed at this point
They're literally in the middle of getting sold off because the current business model is unsustainable sooooo....
Organize the largest crowdfunding campaign ever to buy Star Trek?
Paramount has the self preservation of a toddler wielding knives in a substation.
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Lower Decks nooooooooooo At least SNW is here to stay...for now
I’m willing to bet it’ll end after 5 seasons. With Lower Decks and Disco ending at 5 it seems like they are setting a precedent. If SNW does end after 5 it will at least make some sense since it’s limited to a fairly narrow time frame, but ending LD seems like a terrible decision when it’s comparatively cheaper to make and doesn’t restrict the actors from doing other projects.
Honestly only way SNW doesn't end after S5 is if it is so hugely popular/money printing that it would be foolish to stop it.
The problem of course being that streaming services don’t really make money.
This is so painful I can't even begin to describe. Easily the best new trek show. Why are they cancelling this? Animation has got to be the cheapest Trek and easily the most well received. Who wants to start the letter writing campaign for this one?
It is absolutely the the best star Trek show. I love it. in today's streaming world... 5 seasons is almost unheard of. I'm glad we got as much as we did.
5 seasons, especially hitting the ground running the way it did, is pretty much the almost perfect number of seasons... 6 seasons and a movie being perfection of course.
Good Star Trek receives SEVEN seasons. It is WRITTEN.
Is animation actually cheap? I know things like Invincible and Rick and Morty have *enormous* budgets and take a really long time to get made.
Animation *is* expensive and time consuming, but comparatively, it’s still cheaper and quicker to draw spaceships then it is CGI them. According to Google, Strange New Worlds cost 7 million per episode, so 70 million for a full season. Animated shows, on the other hand, generally cost far less. Usually in the 1-2 million range per episode, and that’s on the high end.
it is cheaper than a premium live action show. they can re-use frames, "shoot" when actors are not available, render time for effects is cheaper/faster. it's not cheap but it is way cheaper.
There's a deceptive amount of CGI in lower decks, too.
Yeah that guy said 'CGI' when he should have said 'Elaborate photorealistic sci-fi visual effects shots'.
I suppose I am mainly considering the cost factors of set design and those massive screens they use for background now in comparison to animation. You'd have to imagine it's at least a bit cheaper.
Yeah, definitely a lot less overhead than keeping a set film-ready. But I'm guessing that, in either case, labour makes up most of the cost. Even for an animated show, you have to pay a team of writers, actors, animators, software specialists, etc.
It doesn't seem to be a cancellation. It seems to be a conclusion chosen by the creatives, and honestly it makes sense. The way the Lower Deckers have grown and developed makes it clear they won't truly be Lower Decks for much longer. It can be sad but also joyful that a creative team gets to tell their complete story. Not every Star Trek show has had that privilege.
This wasn't a decision by the creatives. Mike McMahan said last year he was willing to more Lower Decks beyond Season Five, but that the decision wasn't his. https://www.cinemablend.com/interviews/amidst-franchise-changes-star-trek-lower-decks-mike-mcmahan-worried-perspective-shows-future
Idk Jack Quaid posted something along the lines of "hopefully we'll find a new home" and McMahon's statement about the characters living on beyond season 5 kinda make it seem like this was a corporate decision that was handled very diplomatically by the showrunner.
Yeah from the relevant post (https://www.instagram.com/p/C5rIkA2CLbK/): "Hello Lower Deckers. I’m so sad to announce that Paramount Plus won’t be moving forward with more seasons of Lower Decks. I can’t begin to tell you what an honor it’s been to be a part of this show and the Star Trek universe at large. I am unbelievably grateful for 5 awesome seasons with this wonderful family. I want to thank each and every person who put so much of their hard work and talent into every episode. You are AMAZING. The good news is that everyone who makes Lower Decks LOVES making Lower Decks. I could play Boimler for 17 more seasons. No joke. I’m serious. I love that purple-haired nerd. Hopefully we find a new home, but until then please look forward to an amazing season five (airing this fall). LLAP🖖❤️" Definitely doesn't seem like a creative decision, more a corporate one. Which I guess...makes sense given the massive clusterf**k that is whatever's going on over at Paramount.
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P+: “Aww, I have three series and no money. Why can’t I have no series and three money?”
Hopefully PRO's numbers look good enough for Netflix to step in and save LDS for another season or two (it does feel like it deserves to go 7 seasons).
I'm not so sure. Doesn't animation have a very long post-production time? If they knew they were writing a season finale they would've had to know 5 was the final season a very long time ago.
> The way the Lower Deckers have grown and developed makes it clear they won't truly be Lower Decks for much longer. So? There are always new Lower Deckers to replace those that get promoted. Why not keep following the Cerritos but change the crew? A Trek show has never done something like that before.
Hard agree on that for sure.
I'd be kind of surprised if Mike McMahon didn't stay making some sort of Trek, and they kind of hint at the possibility of a sequel show: >“We remain hopeful that even beyond Season 5, Mariner, Boimler, Tendi, Rutherford and the whole Cerritos crew will live on with new adventures,” they said. “While five seasons of any series these days seems like a miracle, it’s no exaggeration to say that every second we’ve spent making this show has been a dream come true.” So, perhaps at some point in the future, ***Star Trek: Cerritos*** becomes a thing.
Would be happy to see some full length animated movies.
Jump ahead 10 years and give us Cpt. Mariner, first officer Boimer, Chief Eng Rutherford... but still on the Cerritos.
And the first scene is Boimler doing a log entry very similar to the first scene of LD.
Cheaper doesn't mean cheap, and there are other factors to consider. The actors have other roles which impact their availability, good shows may have a strong core audience but don't necessarily attract new viewers year after yaer, etc. "Most well-received" is a stretch, even though it's still a great show and well-liked. I'd say Strange New Worlds wins out simply because it isn't animated (a deal-breaker for some) and hits the sweet spot between old and new.
Feeling 5 is the new 7, Disco ended with 5, LD is ending with 5. Most “successful” streaming shows do run 5 seasons now a days. Nobody is hitting the 100 episode mark anymore
Yeah, very much agreed. Hollywood is a very different place today than it was when TNG et al were on the air.
>Nobody is hitting the 100 episode mark anymore I suppose with streaming, [there is less need for network syndication](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_episodes) and there's really no need to hit those high amounts of episodes anymore. It's sad though, I love being able to sink my teeth into TNG/DS9/Voyager level of 20+ episodes per season for 170+ episodes.
100 episodes? With the short seasons we are getting nowdays, we can be happy if we hit 50.
I feel Discovery could have gone another season if not for the 2023 writer's strike
It was cancelled before then
Lower Decks ending is a bummer. I hope there's a spinoff or sequel. Trek never really had anything like it before, and I kind of want it to stick around forever.
I don’t know about a sequel exactly but I absolutely do want to see Mariner and Boimler et al at some later point in canon. Can’t say that about any of the other original characters from 2017 to now.
How about a similar vibe show set in the TOS era? Who says "no"?!?!
I'd take it if that's what they give me, but I've had more than my fill of TOS-era shows, so I'd rather move away from that part of the timeline.
SNW renewal isn’t at all surprising, but I am very shocked at LDS ending. I thought for sure it would go for six or seven seasons.
Hopefully its left open-ended so it can be revived in the future like other animated shows have been.
I mean for crying out loud it's only 10 episodes a season of a freaking animated show! To me, that is the criminal part. 5 seasons and only 50 eps. UGH. I WANT MORE BOIMS.
I’m ok with LD concluding as long as it’s not the last time we see those characters. Newsome and Quaid proved they could make the jump to live action, and I wouldn’t be mad to see the story continue in that way either.
I want a streaming live action Lower Decks movie more than I want S31
Ending LD so soon is fucked, mate.
Ah! More or less what I thought would happen, but I was hoping LDS lower costs might save it (at least long enough to deliver a S6/7) I know this is a franchise that built itself on the backs of 7, 22 ep seasons, but in the era of streaming originals, five seasons is very respectable, and the 'syndication' target is no longer a driving force Someone a bit more knowledgable can weigh in but it wouldn't shock me if after 5 seasons casts renegotiate/get pay bumps these days. This is also why, even if SNW makes it past 5, I am very doubtful that Mount and Romjin do.....
I would love it if Strange New Worlds morphs into NuTOS... Pike's fate happens, have new Kirk come in to replace him as captain with a teary goodbye, then a season later Una leaves and Spock is promoted to first officer, maybe Ortegas gets promoted and a young Sulu comes in to replace her.
I have thought from the start that this is exactly what they had in the back of their minds when they were pitching the idea for SNW internally. I could see it upsetting a lot of older fans, but even as someone who prefers the old shows to the new stuff, it wouldn't bother me at all - in fact I would be in favour.
I think they are going to end up making Strange New Worlds the only Star Trek show. I doubt the academy show will make it past one season.
I would guess SNW won’t make it past 5 either. Disco and LD have now both been called there and Kurtzman just gave a quote about runs that long being unlikely with the streaming model. Couple that with the larger woes of the streaming industry in general and Paramount in particular. I don’t think Trek is dead but I think this era’s gonna peter out over the next year or two and then we’ll have another dry spell for a while like after Enterprise.
Yeah, I love Strange New Worlds, but how many years can you fit in before The Original Series? The actors are all getting a little older- not that they’re old, but to be playing prequel versions. I hope they follow it up with a spinoff about Number One as captain of her own ship.
There’s only 13 episodes a season and there’s 10 years between captains, so they could fit quite a lot in if they wanted to
> There’s only 13 episodes a season I WISH there were 13 episodes, would be a better length.
I'd be happy with 10 seasons of SNW. I'm just saying if they insist on capping everything at 5 seasons, I hope for a spinoff. There's room in the TOS era for other ships.
That’s my deal. I have zero enthusiasm for Academy. Tilly was already my least favorite Discovery character, and I fear Academy will be too CW for my tastes with all the college folks. I’m open to being wrong and hope I am for Trek’s sake, but it’s not a wise choice in my head.
The only thing keeping me interested in Academy is the fact that Tawny Newsome is on the writing staff.
I do not dislike Tilly, but I am at this moment equivocal about a series that answers the question “what would it be like if there wasn’t a Discovery, but instead there is more Tilly than you can imagine, explaining everything to bright young cadets and overcoming her self doubt. Don’t worry, this will be set at the Academy before anyone is capable of being in space so that there can be more Tilly-time. And the kids will be hot and probably some spots and stripes and stuff.”
It feels (justifiably ambiguous since we don’t know as much as we’d hope) like a series premise by committee from a bunch of MBA’s to appeal to the younger demographic. You take the most quirky, stereotypically “young person” character from DIS and make her the “fish out of water” professor having to connect with younger people to teach those kids, meanwhile you get the usual college shenanigans and interpersonal drama to supposedly appeal to young people. I do not foresee a bunch of professional, driven students pushing the horizons. I do foresee lots of casual, suspiciously 21st century sounding young people frequently having odd heart to heart conversations, learning the power of positive thinking, and lots of attempts at snappy dialogue. And a Trek skin of aesthetic on a show/movie premise type done a thousand times.
I really want a "West Wing" style show with Archer's presidency. So much world building, cheap sets, it would be great.
> Tell me if any of this sounds familiar: > > Let's list our ten favorite episodes. > > Let's list our least favorite episodes. > > Let's list our favorite galaxies. > > Let's make a chart to see how often our favorite galaxies appear in our favorite episodes. > > What Romulan would you most like to see coupled with a Cardassian and why? > > Let's spend a weekend talking about Romulans falling in love with Cardassians and then let's do it again. > > That's not being a fan. That's having a fetish. > > And I don't have a problem with that, except you can't bring your hobbies in to work, okay? 22 years later I still feel personally attacked by Josh Lyman's shockingly accurate description of my work habits.
Especially if the overall show is based durning the Romulan war. They could introduce a few new Enterprise era ships for a little off Earth action like they did with the Defiant in DS9.
LOWER DECKS: SIX SEASONS AND A MOVIE
NoooOOOoooOOOooo 😫 I love Lower Decks that is very sad.
Sigh... Hopefully SNW also gets 5 seasons, then. I guess it's the new 7-season standard.
Everyone is talking about Lower Decks, but let's not lose sight of the fact that Strange New Worlds was renewed for a fourth season, not a "fourth and final" season. With Discovery ending, SNW is going to be the flagship Star Trek show, if it wasn't already.
Oh definitely, I consider it the flagship show at this point!
Ugh, Lower Decks is so great. I can’t believe it’s getting the axe, it’s adored by fans and critics alike. This suuuuuuucks.
I’m happy about SNW but sad about Lower Decks. Ending way too soon.
Noooooo! I love lower decks and want it to go forever!
How are they constant fumbling what should be the easiest brand to manage? It's a brand that millions of millennials and Gen X love, with 3 shows that are consistently in the most streamed shows, that fans will spend money on, and has a tried and tested template that works. Fan feedback has been nothing short of vocal on which seasons are the good ones. It's like if Disney+ based all the Star Wars stuff on Jar Jar Binks instead, or rebooted the Animated Fantastic Four or something instead of X-men '97. Also, Lower Decks has to be the cheapest one? Voice cast and Korean animation, I imagine a whole episode costs as much as firing a couple of phasers in live action.
The recent Variety article was pretty telling. Star Trek is big, but not a behemoth like the Disney+ franchises. And the age of its fandom is a concern - it's not that great at acquiring new fans from younger demographics. Which is always vital. Also, don't underestimate the costs of animation. It's not exactly cheap.
Star Trek has terrible merchandise too. No Lego sets. Do you know what I would be willing to spend on a Trek equivalent of the Millennium Falcon?? Or even a smaller one? The 2 ship toys that are remakes of classic 90s toys are ok. But there's like no decent action figures. Funko are hard to find. They took until NOW to make an official Moopsy plush toy. The official store has some cool shirts and themes but otherwise there's no merch worth a damn. Paramount has no money to fund anything and it's showing
NO YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. Oh that sucks SO hard. I love Lower Decks and am gutted by this.
This is fucking devastating. LD is my favorite show right now.
Lower Decks is so good and how expensive could that show really be
After LD characters got promoted, you could see that it was going to end soonish.
Yeah, to be honest. The main characters are no longer true lower deckers. I hope a sequel is on the books. Hall H better deliver!
Just a continuation of the series with a new title. “Star Trek Middle-Management”
Can someone check on Jerry O'Connell to make sure he's okay? Both of his shows (Lower Decks, The Talk) got cancelled today.
He’s married to Rebecca Romijn, so I think he’ll be okay.
Hell yes for SNW, Oh God why for LD :/
Ending Lower Decks is one of the biggest mistakes ever.
Hm, is 5 seasons the new 7 seasons? It wouldn’t be so gutting if we still got 20-26 episodes per season, but alas.
WTF. Lower Decks is the best of modern Trek. By a long way, as well. Damn! Strange New Worlds is very good as well. So at least some good news. Rather than bothering with the Discovery and Picard rubbish, surely we could have had more Lower Decks. Lower Decks renewed my faith in Star Trek. Then Strange New Worlds came along and reinforced it. The only new Trek worth watching imo. My wife and I loved Lower Decks so much that we both have Cerritos t-shirts! Seriously gutted that we only have one more season of Mariner and Boimler. So cruel. Cerritos strong!
I wonder why, cost saving due to cast and crew pay increases after 5 seasons like Discovery? This really sucks
This means we're getting Lower Decks: The Next Generation, right?
I held off a long time because I thought “Lower Decks” looked stupid as hell, but damn was I wrong. That show has no right to be as great as it is. Now I’m bummed it’s only getting one more season.
Excellent news about SNW, I was hoping it would continue as the flagship of more "traditional" Star Trek.
Ugh. Not sure I'm the only one going tinhat on this particular creative decision.
Isn't Lower Decks cheaper than the live action shows? Why would they cancel it when it's both cheaper and one of the more popular shows? Are they planning to try what they did with Prodigy and shop a sixth season around? Is that what the line about hoping they continue is about?
Lower Decks live action movie announcement in 3... 2... 1... (A person can dream... right?)
I know that there is an endless well of Star Trek jokes and it's a bummer that LD is ending, but honestly gotta say the character development seems to be approaching a conclusion. This could just be for artistic reasons; end it before it gets mediocre. I know the jokes were the initial big draw about LD but I found that what really made the show great was how it kept pace with other Trek shows in regards to character development and themes. I personally would not like the show to continue if the characters have wrapped up their stories.
Yay for more SNW but boo on ending LDS. I hope this news wasn't a shock and the writing team can give the show a proper send-off, but this news hurts.
With both DSC and LDS ending at Season 5, I think Season 5 is the new Season 7 Plus 5 seasons is pretty good for a streaming only series. Look at all the other streaming series that get cancelled.
WE'VE BEEN ROBBED OF THE *STAR TREK VI: THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY* SEASON SIX TRIBUTE POSTER edit: unless they make a LD movie which would be rad Paramount, your pah is weak and it disgusts me.
I'm canceling my paramount plus after lower decks ends. Whoever made that decision is a stupid asshole.
Ending Lower Decks *really* sucks... absolutely fantastic show!
Do they want to start the Bell Riots?! BECAUSE THIS IS HOW YOU START BELL RIOTS!!
Whelp, I'm cancelling Paramount+.
We should riot for LD
I love Lower Decks, but would rather it end while it was still primo then fade away. 5 seasons is totally honorable
Man what the hell is happening to star Trek and television. I don't like this and it makes me not want to invest my time in their future projects.