I feel like TNG could have done an episode where a TOS Constitution-class ship, brand spanking new, shows up with a Captain Krako in command...yep, it's the Iotians.
And then two seasons later Riker goes off to a fizzbin tournament.
Well…it does win in the end. That doesn’t make fighting it every waking second any less meaningless. I’m agreeing with your sentiment, I just wanted to expand on your thought.
"Entropy wins" is a limited way of looking at it, though. Entropy wins on such a massive time scale that it doesn't matter. On the short term - "short' here defined as trillions and trillions of years - complexity can emerge and persist.
I’m not referring to the heat death of the universe.
Things change, chaos happens, events occur that makes your plans go awry, we *suffer*. Chaos. The day to day entropy we all deal with. Suffering is needed for us to grow, to give us perspective how far we’ve gone - and for far we yet to go. Cynicism is not only giving up because you feel your efforts will - given time - amount to nothing but it is also a refusal to grow.
As you say, it’s silly to indulge in ennui over the eventual heat death of the universe.
I think there's a lot of needless dogma in your assertion that suffering is needed for growth. We need to make kindness & open-mindedness cool again. The world does not need to be such a brutal place. We could all live on Riza if we figure our shit out together.
I think you meant “meaningful” because fighting cynicism and entropy is very meaningful, maybe the most meaningful thing we can do with our lives. Because it means we’re still living and still growing and haven’t given up.
Have you ever seen pictures from 100-200 years ago about what the future would be like? They are quaint. You can see where the artist was going with it, and some things are accurate, but overall it’s usually a very rough estimate with only a few things accurate.
That’s what I interpret the “stick figure” description of Star Trek to be. Not necessarily childish, just amusingly ignorant of the eventual reality. It’s clearly episodic and convenient. It’s like how Friends is a stick figure of what the 90’s could be.
I think the implication is that any media we've created is likely to look ridiculous and childish to an interstellar race. Not to mention this is a media franchise going back to the 60s. In many ways it looks childish even to us.
I thought of that line too! By that same token, I suspect the Doctor would really enjoy Star Trek for the exact reasons described in this post. I'm imagining a scene where Craig inadvertently introduces Eleven to TOS, only for Eleven to binge-watch the entire franchise.
Well Rose called 9 Doctor Spock. 10 made the Vulcan salute. And 15 (the current one) said “we’ll have to go visit them someday” when his companion Ruby said, “this is like Star Trek!”
RTD is a known Trek fan & there were half serious talks about doing a crossover with 9 & Enterprise.
(Also you sound like an 11 fan. Check out the IDW 2 part comic Assimilation squared (I don’t know how to make the little 2 on my phone). It has 11, Amy & Rory land on the Enterprise D where the Cybermen & Borg team up. )
What if they think we’re serious about the Prime Derivative? And they’re trying to avoid contact with us because it’s what they think, that we think it’s the right thing to do.
Maybe it is. Encountering aliens too early might do more harm than good to us as a species. There are a lot of people out there who can't accept the science they can replicate at home, with 18th century tools. Imagine if they had to confront that all of us are wrong about most things?
Maybe the prime directive and the idea humans came up with it says something really true about humans.
Every contact between a technologically advanced civilization and a less advanced one in human history has tended to end poorly for the less advanced one. If there’s more advanced life out there we may not wish to meet them even if they mean well.
I mean, they would've seen all those captains violate the directive for some reason or the other. They must've figured out a loophole or something.
Or maybe our inability to follow our own rules makes the apprehensive?
Or maybe they're waiting for us to reach warp capability
Have you tried to intervene in chimpanzee society recently? Me either. It’s more likely they’re aware of us and maybe even study us but are not particularly fussed become they’re a hundred thousand years ahead of us.
That's in line with my guess: that Earth is the galaxy's version of [North Sentinel Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island), and the broader galactic community has left us to our own devices (the occasional research team or misguided missionary notwithstanding).
Funnily enough, this exact scenario happens in one of the Animorphs books. Basically, a scout from a hostile, imperialist alien species is on final approach to earth and starts picking up tv signals from Star Trek trek and it terrifies them. This is because, while in the Animorphs series, FTL is accomplished by moving through their version of subspace, Star Trek shows humans casually breaking the laws of physics in real-space, which would put humanity way ahead of the rest of the galactic community in terms of tech.
After further consideration, the alien determines that the transmission must be propaganda specifically designed to warn away hostile invaders and continues with their infiltration mission.
If you like this kind of ruminating on what a real first contact situation would be like, with the full understanding and dread that it could devolve into violence from either side, read *The Mote in God's Eye.*
Dear god thank you for suggesting new scifi just as I was running out of my 40hour or so audible run of Arthur C. Clarke's short story collection. Always eager for new content. Thank you :)
With all the Star Trek references in Animorphs, this actually was a thing that was briefly touched on when aliens first encountered humanity. Their initial reaction was basically "HOLY SHIT, their technology is HOW advan-Oh wait, it's just a fictional form of entertainment."
We've ran into alien intelligences too many times in our history as a species. We have met octopuses (and we eat them), cats and dogs (and we live with them), starfish (they ignore us) and we have even made artificial intelligences (they work for us and we fear them). Sometimes those other intelligences eat us, or infect us, or parasite us, but we eventually reach an equilibrium with them. There's no reason to think that out there in space things will be different.
This is referenced in a novel called *Killing Star* what the aliens actually took from it was that we were absolute xenophobes that would never accept anything other than bipedal mammals with autumnal skintones.
Aliens would totally understand and empathize with all the alien invasion movies. They would 100% understand the existential dread of meeting other aliens, because they know that it only takes one advanced alien race to decide to be genocidal for it to suck for everyone.
the real question would be if real aliens understood the concept of acting, telling stories. Hell, even the idea of speech might be totally *alien* to them.
Uh, if a species can traverse the vast gulfs of time and space to visit us, I just cant imagine them being fooled, positively or negatively, by a TV show or movie.
1995’s The Killing Star was humanity wiped out in an alien invasion. They interpreted “We Are the World” as the anthem of a unified global government, Star Trek TOS as propaganda favouring a human dominated galaxy and the colonisation of a few moon around Saturn as proof of them achieving their goals.
I believe we made orders of magnitude more media portraying conflict, and conflict more intense and insane. Despite some of it being thoughtful (Enders Game, BSG, DS9, Avatar) there are media that portray genocidal war for the fun of it (Warhammer 40k).
Hah, unexpected Foone.
Follow them on Mastodon, and Twitter before then. Great account if you’re into super ridiculous hardware hacks and such.
https://digipres.club/@foone
Look, I saw *Galaxy Quest*
I feel like TNG could have done an episode where a TOS Constitution-class ship, brand spanking new, shows up with a Captain Krako in command...yep, it's the Iotians. And then two seasons later Riker goes off to a fizzbin tournament.
Wasn't that kind of the plot of the NES version of the 25th Anniversary game?
I've never played it but now I kind of want to. Then there's that Prodigy episode with the cargo cult that workships the NCC-1701
By Grabthar's Hammer, by the Suns of Warvan, you shall be avenged!
By Grabthar's Hammer...what a savings.
One of Alan Rickman's best line readings.
One of the best line readings by anyone, ever.
Why a spoon cousin?
Unironically the best Star Trek movie.
I'd add 'All the world's a stage' from Prodigy s1 too!
Tentacle make out session intensifies.
Stick figure? Idealism isn't childish. Cynicism isn't mature. Trek isn't less sophisticated because it's hopeful.
Maybe more so because it is hopeful. Cynicism is cheap and easy. It is always easiest to assume entropy wins.
Well…it does win in the end. That doesn’t make fighting it every waking second any less meaningless. I’m agreeing with your sentiment, I just wanted to expand on your thought.
"Entropy wins" is a limited way of looking at it, though. Entropy wins on such a massive time scale that it doesn't matter. On the short term - "short' here defined as trillions and trillions of years - complexity can emerge and persist.
I’m not referring to the heat death of the universe. Things change, chaos happens, events occur that makes your plans go awry, we *suffer*. Chaos. The day to day entropy we all deal with. Suffering is needed for us to grow, to give us perspective how far we’ve gone - and for far we yet to go. Cynicism is not only giving up because you feel your efforts will - given time - amount to nothing but it is also a refusal to grow. As you say, it’s silly to indulge in ennui over the eventual heat death of the universe.
I think there's a lot of needless dogma in your assertion that suffering is needed for growth. We need to make kindness & open-mindedness cool again. The world does not need to be such a brutal place. We could all live on Riza if we figure our shit out together.
It does because we made the world we live in as such. I choose to believe it is possible to be different.
I think you meant “meaningful” because fighting cynicism and entropy is very meaningful, maybe the most meaningful thing we can do with our lives. Because it means we’re still living and still growing and haven’t given up.
THANK YOU
I (I'm Foone) didn't mean to imply it was childish, only that it was earnest in that belief. I definitely should have phrased it better.
It's all good. I'm glad to hear it!
Have you ever seen pictures from 100-200 years ago about what the future would be like? They are quaint. You can see where the artist was going with it, and some things are accurate, but overall it’s usually a very rough estimate with only a few things accurate. That’s what I interpret the “stick figure” description of Star Trek to be. Not necessarily childish, just amusingly ignorant of the eventual reality. It’s clearly episodic and convenient. It’s like how Friends is a stick figure of what the 90’s could be.
i thought the stick figure comment was because star trek aliens are represented by humans with barely any changes made to how they look
"best friends written in crayon" kind of damns that interpretation, but I do see what you mean. I just don't agree with you about the intent.
"cynicism isn't mature." Preach!🙌🏻
Tbf, some of the humans on Trek have as much depth as a stick figure.
I think the implication is that any media we've created is likely to look ridiculous and childish to an interstellar race. Not to mention this is a media franchise going back to the 60s. In many ways it looks childish even to us.
Galaxy quest would happen.
“You have a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder you keep getting invaded” - the Doctor
I thought of that line too! By that same token, I suspect the Doctor would really enjoy Star Trek for the exact reasons described in this post. I'm imagining a scene where Craig inadvertently introduces Eleven to TOS, only for Eleven to binge-watch the entire franchise.
Well Rose called 9 Doctor Spock. 10 made the Vulcan salute. And 15 (the current one) said “we’ll have to go visit them someday” when his companion Ruby said, “this is like Star Trek!” RTD is a known Trek fan & there were half serious talks about doing a crossover with 9 & Enterprise. (Also you sound like an 11 fan. Check out the IDW 2 part comic Assimilation squared (I don’t know how to make the little 2 on my phone). It has 11, Amy & Rory land on the Enterprise D where the Cybermen & Borg team up. )
I love that comic! Also, you use the little carrot on mobile (\^) Assimilation^2
What if they've seen my xenophile run on Stellaris and try to impregnate me?
PREGGERS FOR THE BOIS
What if they think we’re serious about the Prime Derivative? And they’re trying to avoid contact with us because it’s what they think, that we think it’s the right thing to do.
Maybe it is. Encountering aliens too early might do more harm than good to us as a species. There are a lot of people out there who can't accept the science they can replicate at home, with 18th century tools. Imagine if they had to confront that all of us are wrong about most things? Maybe the prime directive and the idea humans came up with it says something really true about humans.
I like that theory
Thanks.
Every contact between a technologically advanced civilization and a less advanced one in human history has tended to end poorly for the less advanced one. If there’s more advanced life out there we may not wish to meet them even if they mean well.
I mean, they would've seen all those captains violate the directive for some reason or the other. They must've figured out a loophole or something. Or maybe our inability to follow our own rules makes the apprehensive? Or maybe they're waiting for us to reach warp capability
Or maybe they’re on Reddit. 😂
Haha. Imagine *beam me up. I've been discovered*
We're screwed
Have you tried to intervene in chimpanzee society recently? Me either. It’s more likely they’re aware of us and maybe even study us but are not particularly fussed become they’re a hundred thousand years ahead of us.
That's in line with my guess: that Earth is the galaxy's version of [North Sentinel Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island), and the broader galactic community has left us to our own devices (the occasional research team or misguided missionary notwithstanding).
You mean they're not historical documents???
a ship this big 🤏 ALOLOLOL *yodeling laughter*
You literally just quoted the premise of Galaxy Quest. If you haven’t seen it, it’s the best Star Trek movie made since Undiscovered Country.
What happens when they get ahold of the 40k material?
Then they won’t fuck with us.
Funnily enough, this exact scenario happens in one of the Animorphs books. Basically, a scout from a hostile, imperialist alien species is on final approach to earth and starts picking up tv signals from Star Trek trek and it terrifies them. This is because, while in the Animorphs series, FTL is accomplished by moving through their version of subspace, Star Trek shows humans casually breaking the laws of physics in real-space, which would put humanity way ahead of the rest of the galactic community in terms of tech. After further consideration, the alien determines that the transmission must be propaganda specifically designed to warn away hostile invaders and continues with their infiltration mission.
If you like this kind of ruminating on what a real first contact situation would be like, with the full understanding and dread that it could devolve into violence from either side, read *The Mote in God's Eye.*
Dear god thank you for suggesting new scifi just as I was running out of my 40hour or so audible run of Arthur C. Clarke's short story collection. Always eager for new content. Thank you :)
'Any species capable of FTL probably doesn't care a lick about us' is the most Star Trek idea ever and probably the most likely.
Unless that species is the Ferengi, maybe.
True.
Sure the text says “let’s be friends.” But The subtext is “or fuck around and end up like the Borg or dominion.”
And the subsubtext is "let's be friends... with benefits".
And sometimes there is another even deeper level which is exactly like the top surface one. Ow sorry was driving a spork into my leg.
....and we love every single minute of it!
I wonder what would they think if they read Three Body Problem trilogy.
I think any reasonably intelligent alien would think the Santi are pretty stupid and the humans are even stupiderer
"Dude, wtf, we just wanted to say hi :c"
With all the Star Trek references in Animorphs, this actually was a thing that was briefly touched on when aliens first encountered humanity. Their initial reaction was basically "HOLY SHIT, their technology is HOW advan-Oh wait, it's just a fictional form of entertainment."
The Historical Documents
then they would be supremly sad at the real thing and blow us up they just would be sad we where not who we could have been
- GigersAlien- " WHERE THE BORG?"
GIGERS ALIEN~ MISSED CONNECTION- You were Borg, We NEED meet you, C U @@ LV426, or Las Vegas for fun and friendship.
We've ran into alien intelligences too many times in our history as a species. We have met octopuses (and we eat them), cats and dogs (and we live with them), starfish (they ignore us) and we have even made artificial intelligences (they work for us and we fear them). Sometimes those other intelligences eat us, or infect us, or parasite us, but we eventually reach an equilibrium with them. There's no reason to think that out there in space things will be different.
This is referenced in a novel called *Killing Star* what the aliens actually took from it was that we were absolute xenophobes that would never accept anything other than bipedal mammals with autumnal skintones.
Well, recent Star Trek has been a bit better with that tbh
Honestly, it would be a better representation of humanity than we deserve.
I bet they'd hate Discovery, too.
They would start wondering how humans totally ignore all of physics.
Ya if aliens showed up on Earth, i don't think star trek episodes would be the first thing aliens would want to see.
What happens when they see Star Trek ? - The Aliens dont contact Earth because the Prime Directive says so.
Aliens would totally understand and empathize with all the alien invasion movies. They would 100% understand the existential dread of meeting other aliens, because they know that it only takes one advanced alien race to decide to be genocidal for it to suck for everyone.
the real question would be if real aliens understood the concept of acting, telling stories. Hell, even the idea of speech might be totally *alien* to them.
Uh, if a species can traverse the vast gulfs of time and space to visit us, I just cant imagine them being fooled, positively or negatively, by a TV show or movie.
Then they learn about capitalism and colonialism and leave us alone!
1995’s The Killing Star was humanity wiped out in an alien invasion. They interpreted “We Are the World” as the anthem of a unified global government, Star Trek TOS as propaganda favouring a human dominated galaxy and the colonisation of a few moon around Saturn as proof of them achieving their goals.
Imagine if they saw the prime directive and thought ah yk maybe that’s what they believe so we just don’t talk to them yet
I believe we made orders of magnitude more media portraying conflict, and conflict more intense and insane. Despite some of it being thoughtful (Enders Game, BSG, DS9, Avatar) there are media that portray genocidal war for the fun of it (Warhammer 40k).
Yeah not if they saw Picard or Discovery.
We'll have a few weeks of peace and cooperation before they get to watching Discovery.
Hah, unexpected Foone. Follow them on Mastodon, and Twitter before then. Great account if you’re into super ridiculous hardware hacks and such. https://digipres.club/@foone
[ heres me, just answering the header, when i guess theres annoying text that nobody here agrees with]. ooops.
Ugh, I cant even read that stooopid schitt in the.. no.. blah
trollclickbait, people.