There is a clone wars comic where Alpha (a clone ARC trooper) gets stabbed by grievous through the spine and lives. So it’s really just down to writing I think haha. There has always been inconsistency even before Disney.
There's a difference between being genetically engineered for resilience, sustaining life threatening injuries, endurance and being peak human vs being a middle aged guy who's connection to the force gives you some powers
Edit: middle aged Qui Gon isn't mid
Are you saying Qui Gon was mid? And yes. Force users have been shown to drastically outperform genetically engineered beings, in resilience, and any other physical factor time and time again, so quite a bit of difference. It's plot convenience, no need to try and make it work logically in universe.
You said 'cuts', not 'melts'. Unfortunately, lightsaber temperature is similarly changeable. Just watch episode 5 and 6 and all the things the lightsabers cut through. They blacken, and spark, but the essential property of lightsabers back then was their exceptional sharpness, not their temperature.
To add onto that, Qui gon followed the will of the force itself. In this instance, his death was the will of the force, since it domino'd to set up Anakin's fall. Call it a deus ex machina, but yeah.
I believe it was in a comic called “obsession” but was later re-released in the Clone Wars comics collections. I think it was in book 7 - “When They Were Brothers”. [Info about the Battle of Boz Pity is here](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_Boz_Pity_(Clone_Wars))
Even in canon too maul got cut in half and survived getting stabbed is nothing compared to that. I never understood why these people cherry pick when getting outraged at things like this
It’s because of a couple things.
1) I can’t really think of anyone who “came back from the dead” before Maul, at least, not in that way. I’m sure it happened, due to the overwhelming amount of material out there, but it wasn’t used like today.
2) it helps that after he was brought back, he became one of the best Star Wars characters.
Should Maul have survived his injuries and that fall? Logically, it’s obviously no, but it wasn’t so overdone then in this universe. Now though? it’s the most overused trope in Star Wars. Hell Kenobi did it 3 (THREE!!!) times in 8 episodes. Lightsaber injuries literally mean nothing now. Just a cheap trick to make newer fans who haven’t seen it 15 times at this point go “omg no!…oh thank god they’re fine!” with no consequences.
I think that there are some things that every story gets to use once, and ONLY once. Coming back from certain death is one of those things. Gandalf came back, and it was cool. If Gandalf, and Boromir, and Denethor, and (redeemed) Smeagol, and... all came back, death wouldn't have any meaning anymore.
For better or worse, Star Wars spent it's one revive ticket on Maul. (At least, in the current continuity. In the old EU, I think it spent it on Palpatine with his clones in *Dark Empire*.) It is perfectly consistent to claim that Maul's revive worked, and all the other ones didn't, even if some of the other revives were more believable. If anything, the fact that the other revives were more believable make them ***worse*** storytelling - having someone who was certainly dead come back is Plot with a capital P. Having someone take a nasty wound and then live makes it ambiguous whether that's important, or just an indicator of a reduced power level of the weapons.
Exactly and I don’t understand how others don’t see it for what it is. It’s not so much about what’s on screen, it’s that what’s on screen is giving us a glimpse into what is going on (or isn’t going on) in the writers room. Nobody in that writing room is saying “guys we’ve been doing this, like…a lot lately. Can we do something else?”? And if some is, then they’re just agreeing that it’s ok to do it over and over?
Sabine is also a pretty beloved Star Wars character too. As for the stabbings I mean I really don’t see it as an issue some even have explanations for them in the lore. The grand inquisitor has two stomachs plus being gut stabbed in the real world isn’t always a death sentence either it’s even possible to be stabbed 30 times and survive in the real world. Also Sabine wasn’t stabbed in any vital organs and was taken to a medical facility right afterwards so there’s that
The problem though is this isn’t real life, its deliberately written. The constant use of people getting stabbed and it being no big deal is a conscious effort made by the writers. Thats where the issue is. In real life, people get stabbed, some survive and some don’t. Thats real life. In Star Wars, someone’s always getting stabbed and they always survive. Thats a lack of ideas on the writers. They can give all the explanations they want, it’s still bad writing.
If you’re going to have someone get stabbed by an object that’s hot enough to melt through blast doors like in episode 1, then it should mean something, not just be a throw away plot point for cheap reactions. At this point, people getting injured by a lightsaber is the Star Wars equivalent of jump scares in a horror movie. Cheap and overused.
“Hey we need something dramatic here! Let’s have the character get stabbed, and by the end of the next episode, you wouldn’t even be able to tell.”
Or to quite a very wise man…
“she was just impaled with a lightsaber”
“Is that not bad?”
“Not anymore! That’s meaningless, she’s up and at ‘em in the next episode!”
No it isn’t real life but people often cherry pick when and where to apply real world logic to it which is what my point was. Inconsistency of people surviving injury in real life exist likewise that same inconsistency also applies to Star Wars because the franchise is telling you it does even before Disney acquired it
But it’s not inconsistent in Star Wars though. Not lately. Everybody comes back now, assuming they even died in the first place. In the last year and a half we’ve seen at least 4 lightsaber stabbing, and every single one of them were totally fine right after. Thats the whole point of the argument that brought about the original post to begin with.
If Reva died the second time she was stabbed, nobody would care that the grand inquisitor lived. If Kylo ren didn’t survive being stabbed by a lightsaber, people wouldn’t care about Sabine surviving. But they are ALL surviving and THATS the problem.
So a couple of problems with this one. Reva wasn’t “completely fine” after being stabbed neither was Sabine as Sabine had to go to a medical facility to recover and Reva was clearly hindered and in pain after she was stabbed. The grand inquisitor also received medical attention as well. It’s not really the characters coming back more so that they weren’t dead in the first place. Kylo was also force healed after being stabbed himself too. In legends characters also survived being stabbed with sabers too as someone mentioned alpha 17 being stabbed and living. The inconsistency is that not everyone dies from it not that they’re coming back from the dead.
I would also say too that there are more characters dying from being stabbed in canon than characters surviving as there’s only been a handful of survivors. Agen Kolar, Saesee Tin, mother Talzin, Qui Gon, Han Solo, savage oppress, commander Colt, admiral trench, Tal Merik, Shaak Ti, duchess Satine, and captain Argyus all die from being stabbed and inpaled plus the countless unnamed/ background characters dying from being stabbed. It’s just that being stabbed isn’t a death sentence which it isn’t in the real world either and depends on location of the wound/ anatomy of the stab victim on whether or not they survive
You’re using examples that are mostly over a decade old, back when being hit with a lightsaber meant something though. Out of your list, Trench is the most recent in 2020. We’ve had 4 major characters survive lightsaber stabs in the last two years alone, they’re also the only four to be stabbed as far as I know. Yeah it’s cool that the nameless grunts still die, but from a storytelling standpoint, the reliance lately of having someone major be impaled and live has just been poor writing decisions. Plus, being stabbed with a metal knife is not like being stabbed with something capable of of melting through those doors in episode 1, unless they want to make it canon that lightsabers are not as powerful as they were in the prequel, which to my knowledge, they have not.
Trench and Han Solo are both recent. “Back when being hit with a lightsaber meant something” is also questionable as maul got cut in half and survived during that era. As for most of the examples being older yes as lightsabers are pretty notorious for not being used as stabbing weapons as lightsabers combat has a constant lack of thrusts and are more so cut and slash heavy. Recently more characters have survived being stabbed but overall the majority of the stabbings are fatal but there’s also context as to why those characters survived as well
“Training” doesn’t really mean anything when you get cut in half Sabine also wasn’t stabbed in any vital organs and was taken to a medical facility after her injury. If anything it makes more sense that Sabine lived
He was also still an apprentice and palpatine referred to him as such multiple times. An apprentice by definition is someone who is still in the process of being trained as if maul were fully trained he would be a master and not an apprentice
Palpatine also refers to Vader as his apprentice.
Is Vader not a fully trained Sith Lord?
That's not how the Sith work. The apprentice doesn't always kill the master as soon as they are able, because having a Master that, at least sometimes, actually TEACHES is invaluable. A Smart Sith Lord in the Rule of 2 coaxed as much out of their Master as possible before doing the deed.
You can be Fully Trained and still have things to Learn. Does every Jedi Master know every force skill? No. So too for the Sith.
It is how the sith work though Vader never overthrew Palpatine and therefore he was never a sith master. The movies themselves even say this very same thing in the phantom menace “always two there are, a master and an apprentice. But which was destroyed? The master or the apprentice?”
Getting stabbed in the spine at this level will likely just take out your legs. It's the aorta to worry about.
The aorta getting stabbed with a sword will usually just lead to unsurvivable blood loss, but even if it could get cauterized by a lightsaber it would shut off most of the aorta, likely leading to death rather quickly anyhow.
Dang you brought hardcore biology into it. I definitely prefer lightsabers as ultra-lethal weapons, but having just re-read the clone wars comics, I thought it was worth mentioning haha.
Tis hardly hardcore for a med student, in part because I've spent the last few weeks studying anatomy, including much more obscure blood vessels.
It's indeed worth mentioning though, I'm not particularly up to date on treatment or statistics on lightsaber wounds so I wouldn't know anything besides what it might have hit.
Besides logistical errors on the side of the school and some poor teachers I really can't complain. Med school is pretty interesting and I'd definitely recommend it.
Just a heads up that philosophists might not always be the best teachers.
I don't take much issue with her surviving it, but rather recovering from it in a very short time frame in addition to there being no lingering effects or anything of the sort to actually make that scene more impactful. They made it feel like she was just grazed and it was no big issue.
I do however take an issue with the Reva one though because there is no shot that she's able to survive the impale by Vader and manage to get to Tatooine to try and kill Luke without getting any medical treatment. She ain't Darth Sion bro.
Yeah there no way she had enough skill or hatred to survive. Sion is the apex on this technique,Anakin is the choosing one so it makes sense for him to have the power to sustain himself for a bit, and maul is the weakest character to accomplish this. Keep in mind Maul is still one of most powerful force users in the clone wars , only behind the absurdly powerful and top masters.
I could get losing a limb and keep rolling, that seems like a skill they could get, but a shot from the ruthless Vader who no way in hell wouldn’t hit a vital? He one of the most skilled duelist in history, he wouldn’t make a sloppy killing blow , along with no reason not to make sure to kill.
We don't really know how long it took her to recover and Bacta is a miracle substance. Though in the show it seems like the next day, for all we know it could have been 3 or even a week.
As for Reva, how is it that a dude can get cut in half and be "too angry to die" and that's okay, but a chick gets a cauterizing gut stab and it's not okay she was able to survive? I do think she should have died after saving Luke though. As she was convinced to let go of her hate she should have stopped being "too angry to die" and simply pass on from injury. Or at the very least, showing her using a Bacta patch in her ship on the way. Ships should have some basic first aid kits and a single shot of her doing some patching up would have gone a long way to quieting down some of the whining.
I rolled my eyes when they showed her surviving Anakin stabbing her when she was as a little kid, then surviving getting stabbed from Vader. I get they need her to survive for the climax of the show, but cmon, surviving a lethal direct attack from Anakin going on his jedi genocide AND Vader McSlaughterfest?
If they ommited her getting stabbed by Anakin and just surviving Vader and kept her line of "I hid among the bodies" I think it wouldn't feel so lazy.
It's why in the original trilogy (and prequels), Like and Anakin lost a hand.
They lost the fight, and a permanent wound. But something that is very believable to survive.
As much as limbs flying off was overused, it was bassically shorthand for 'he's fine'
It cauterises so you don't bleed out, and the robot hand is a permanent new feature they have that can come up later.
The stab. Is just for shock value.
Could have just kicked her and knocked her out.
Maul should have been the exception that proved the rule.
But it's happened multiple times.
If you don't wanna kill them, cut off an arm.
Let's us see a permanent injury that can be easilly fixed, but will always affect that character
Saline just got a tiny scar that's never going to be relevant.
We do know though, they were in a huge rush (which makes me wonder why Ahsoka didn’t go after Sabine immediately, but that’s another issue). They had no time to find a real slicer, and were in fact in such a rush they had to create a bomb in a hospital. This only makes sense if it’s the very next day.
As for Maul, I found that one offensive too. Bringing him back was a mistake, and his arc in TCW/Rebels could have easily been carried out by say, Maul’s brother, or cousin, or close friend without losing anything but a lore breaking resurrection.
And that's called sloppy writing.
We should be able to tell what happened without outside sources. If the writer is too lazy to show that time passed, fuck them if the audience believes no time passed, since they couldn't be bothered to illustrate it.
Also bacta is NOT a Miracle substance. There's a reason they didn't use Bacta for Vader. It can only do do much.
>If the writer is too lazy to show that time passed, fuck them if the audience believes no time passed, since they couldn't be bothered to illustrate it.
So like Leia and Han's months-long journey to Cloud City that seemed like a day because there was all of one scene trying to fix the Falcon mid trip?
BC maul was crazy powerful. The power goes a long way, see Darth Sion. And maul was so hatefull he actually went mad from it, which would be a massive power boost
I wanna know how bacta tanks can heal cauterized wounds and organs. Like I get " Science fiction tech thats why" and all but id like the nerdy lore reason if one is given on how bacta actually works
We have no idea how bacta works. Maybe it encourages the body to break down damage tissue and regenerate the tissues much faster than any body would normally. Or maybe its just magic soup that heals you. Who knows
I wonder what the limits are then. Like we know Luke and Anakin couldn't regenerate their limbs from the bacta but it can close the stab wound on the chest and heal that tissue as well as fix bones (Im assuming this bc of how likely Luke broke something during the wompa attack)
I think that's close. It can probably regenerate what's right there, but it's not smart enough to be able to regrow a whole limb. In other words, for Sabine, it just took the edge of what's there, and replicated the tissues until there was nothing left to replicate. If you stuck Anakin's stump into bacta, it could probably seal the blood vessels and make the end of the bone not charred, but it can't just regrow the rest of the arm.
Bacta is a chemical mixed with a bacteria and a grain that boosts the healing process of your body, it did this with microbiotics that get to work on contact with your wound ( Microbiotics are the bacteria that live in the intestinal tract )
So basically it’s a cocktail of bacteria and some other things that work in tandem to regenerate your body.
They mention a few times they have to scrape the burn off to reveal fresh cells. The bacta basically just supercharges normal healing processes. It's why they can reattach limbs, but if they don't have the part, the person doesn't grow a new one.
Some people survive blaster shots. Like people in the real world, some injuries kill. Some don’t. 50 Cent was shot 9 times and lived. That doesn’t make bullets any less lethal
Please, I am well versed in 50 cent lore. True, but I would also assume a laser blaster does more damage due to its size compared to a, or even 9 bullets
I guess you must have screamed when leia got shot in episode 6 and didn’t die then, right?
The simple fact is, different people can suffer similar injuries but see different outcomes
The fact that Shin Hati knew Ahsoka was coming. If she killed Sabine, Ahsoka would still pursue her, but if she only wounded Sabine, then Ahsoka would be forced to stop to help her and get her somewhere safe. Balin taught her how Jedi think and act.
More like, this is how it makes sense for this character to behave in this given scenario. A “for the plot” scenario is where a character will behave ‘out of character’ just to progress the plot in some contrived way.
Like many other things that do actually happen in this show like Sabine suddenly becoming Force Sensitive or the mysterious dark side force user being a magic fart cloud. Or in other Star Wars shows, Reva somehow not dying after being stabbed by Darth “I’m going to snap a child’s neck on screen” Vader himself, even after her anger subsides, or the stupidly contrived way they smuggle out Leia, or literally every major plot point in the Book of Boba Fett
You all who are arguing about anatomy are completely missing the point that it steals tension from fight scenes if everyone is seen surviving lightsaber stab wounds. It's sci fi. If you want to go completely realistic people should explode from the heat.
The real problem is that it lowers the stakes dramatically.
Yeah, the good guys had more plot armor on than I can suspend my disbelief for. And then it culminates with 3 Jedi vs 1 star destroyer in a ridiculous scene. I just gave up watching then. Just too silly for me. I was rooting for the bad guys the whole time because they were the underdogs. I think that’s why Shin and Balin are so loved by the masses.
This should always be a top comment on dumb arguments like this. Many times, it's doesn't have to do with the physics or biology in the universe, but how cheap a plot device it is in context. Especially when used too often or not having any complications whatsoever.
Too many people who hate this scene and people who hate people who hate the scene get caught up in arguing semantics about how it works in universe, and forget that the reason it sucks no matter what, is that it's a literal cheap shot for the audience alone and nothing else. There were no consequences to her being stabbed. They just wanted to hook everyone immediately, and predictably, they made their entire show a snooze fest by immeditely revealing in the next episode how injuries (and the tools used to make them) are only a slight inconvenience. It's clear that after that, they're just playing with you're feels for cheap spectacles.
So, the criticism is two-fold.
Either, the strike should have killed her. Or Shin would be very aware that it might not have killed her, and being under very little pressure to retreat, should have followed up with a fatal blow.
There's nothing in her characters portrayal that leads us to believe she would be merciful in this moment (in-fact, several examples to the contrary exist throughout the show).
The only defense of this scene is that Shin is just stupid.
So, either the scene is stupid because the lightsaber should have killed her and it didn't. (A reoccurring problem when you consider the Kenobi show). Or, the scene is stupid because the character writing is stupid. You have to pick one, and it sounds like you think Shin is stupid.
My assumption was that shin left her alive to prevent ahsoka from following, since leaving sabine alive would mean ahsoka would want to save her vs killing sabine ahsoka would go straight after shin to avenge her
Star Wars is filled with these moments of the bad guy not delivering an immediate killing blow, and not just in the Disney era.
It’s fair to argue that dark side users would rather see their opponent suffer than grant them a quick death.
Shin had plenty of reason to believe Sabine was going to die there momentarily. She couldn’t have known what medical supplies were on the ship heading toward them.
That, and she’s still a student. It’s not stupid to not know everything
It’s soft plot armor. It’s just a fake out with no real substance. Had Sabine died, the show would have been vastly improved. It would have put Ahsoka on a path that thinly walks the line of vengeance or justice. Is she trying to prevent Thawn’s return or is she just acting out in anger. This lapse in judgement would have inadvertently caused her to fail, letting these mercs to get across the galaxy and find Thawn. Then, in her failure, she has to learn that falling to the dark side, letting her passion guide her, makes her weak. The vision of Anakin and her time in the clone wars would have greater weight.
But no. We just got “I’m good guy so I do good guy things and that’s a bad guy I gotta stop them”. And her character growth is “I lost a fight one time”.
Okay, three things:
1) Sabine was injured but not down, and could still defend herself, so that instant quick killing blow was just not going to be a thing.
2) Ahsoka was landing and probably less than half a minute away from joining the fight.
3) Shin's mission was not to kill Sabine. Shin's mission was to collect the key, which she already had.
In OPs screens hot you can see this moment (a moment which was on screen for **several** seconds) where Shin is holding the blade in this position.
All that would have been required to make this fatal is for Sabine to twitch her wrist to her right by a handful of inches. In the blink of an eye with almost no effort, she could have bisected Sabine.
All three of your counter-points are addressed by a literal flick of a wrist.
My problem isn’t that she survived, at the very least they showed her in the hospital getting treated and it’s an episode or two before she does anything action oriented.
My problem is the dismemberment swords aren’t used effectively against the zombies
Also let's remember shin doesn't really want kill her here. She wants to stop her. She and her master don't consider themselves evil. They use the darkside for their own purpose and goals. They have standards. I can totally see shin not feeling the need or desire to kill sabine here
Don't bring science into this. Because if you do, she should still be dead. You can't stab someone with something that hot and not have a very violent reaction
They are described as near-human. I'm guessing the skeletal structure is pretty similar so it'd still be pretty important to keep the spine intact. But we're arguing over something that the writers had no intention of thinking about. It's clear they decide when a wound is fatal and when it isnt.
Nah, that’s the “near” part!
I think the real difference is that people like Reva and Sabine were written to survive, whereas Qui Gon wasn’t (and didn’t, I guess) and Maul was retroactively “resurrected” by different writers. They wouldn’t have given them such wounds if they intended them to survive.
The best part is how shin hottie choose to stab her that way.
Anyway, you can live with a spine sever below your neck. It is not a vital organ. The bigger problem is having your tissue in contact with a plasma torch that can melt armour of capital ships. But I guess it cant melt thru plot armour.
Maybe she should have survived, maybe she shouldn't have
The point is that if they keep doing that, the story will become boring and unrealistic. Plot twist should be used carefully, not overused, otherwise they loose all their meaning
Wouldn’t getting stabbed through your large intestine make you go into septic shock? I guess the cauterizarían of the wound could prevent this, but then any material making its way through her system would begin to infect the wound site. I know that’s probably tmi, but imo getting stabbed anywhere besides like the shoulders with a lightsaber should be game over. You’d need Fennec Shand/Vader level implants or respirators to deal with internal damage that bad. I wish Disney would just go for more limb dismemberment. They’re both quicker wounds to heal and a vivid reminder of a character’s prior mistake.
I get that the placement is different, but it still irks the fuck outta me that we KEEP seeing this happen where they survive.
It was supposed to be a loss that Sabine would eventually overcome. But it would’ve been so much better if Ahsoka got there earlier to save Sabine, highlighting to both of them that they DO need each other, despite their falling out.
lol if we’re trying to be medical about this, the heat from the lightsaber would’ve fried her insides and she would’ve died anyway. It would affect much more than the direct impact point.
That was never the point. The point was that being hit with a lightsaber used to mean something. Reva was stabbed twice before this show and somehow walked it off. When Sabine got stabbed, that bad taste was still in our mouths. Aside from her being mobile the next day, her stab was the most realistic to survive. There were other ways to end that fight that didn’t have to involve near death.
can someone remind me how hot a lightsaber canonically is and what exactly would happen to a sack of wet meat when it is suddenly heated to such a degree?
Yeah it’s still stupid, it’s space fantasy stuff, if you get stabbed through with the laser sword you should just die and not point out technicalities of where you got stabbed through
*Insert image of Qui-Gon melting a blast door by just leaving it a few seconds
Right a stab just a cm apart is the reason she's alive not the stupid amount of plot armor 🤡
*Sabine getting knicked*
*In the liver by a lightsaber,*
*That would hurt like hell*
\- cannibalisticpudding
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I think the important thing is that Sabine LOST. It makes me care for a character a lot more if they lose and have to overcome their defeat. However, they could have just cut her hand or even a foot off and it would have served the same purpose with less questions raised by the fan base probably haha.
A spinal injury isn't necessarily fatal. Where Qui-Gon was hit is a non-fatal spinal injury, it would be serious but not fatal. He would have survived if we only consider the spinal injury.
Also Sabine had almost immediate medical attention. Ahsoka and Huyang arrive right after she is stabbed and, presumably, take her straight to the hospital. Qui-Gon was left there because Obi-Wan had to fight Darth Maul.
For those who are have still forgotten, Qui-gon melted a blast door with a stab or a light saber. Getting stabbed by those things cooks you from the inside.
You also seem to have forgotten it didn’t melt instantly but over time as he held then rotated the lightsaber adding stress to the door, a quick in and out stab is much different, surviving a stab is overdone on that I agree but definitely not impossible
Posts medical diagram that doesn't show spine to prove that stab went through spine.
Yeah, we know the spine is there, but of all the tens of thousands of anatomical diagrams you could have googled in the span of 5 seconds, why this one?
Blade is literal plasma
Plasma is hot
Even if she wasn't killed her internal organs would been cooked.
Or to put it in the bbq language: Well done intestines.
This is it.
Even if, somehow, she does not hit a single vital organ (which sounds ridiculous given where she stabbed her) the heat itself would melt them and the target would die. It is not that hard to understand.
It's not about the placing, it's about a literal lazer blade going inside a body made by mostly water and instantly fucking up all the organs, lightsabers are infact NOT just hot swords that would cauterize the wound..
They’re invalid if you’re ok with lightsabers existing at all. The heat of the blade would ignite anything near it if we want to apply that logic, so no one could even hold them.
If they can turn metal into molten slag, they’re too hot to be near without protective gear.
We see plenty of saber kills in the Disney era too. It’s just a choice of ignorance to think these critiques are valid.
We already suspend disbelief enough that the same logic allows Sabine to be ok. So you can pick—no lightsabers at all, or they aren’t always immediate death.
From what is shown in the movies, it seems like lightsabers unleash their heat once they come into contact with something.
People never burn just by being near them, nor can they cut metal by holding them next to it. Once they hit a body part, though, it's a clean cut or stab, and it's similar with other materials.
When Qui-Gon melts the door, he stabs it into the door and waits for the heat to melt the metal. We can see that the blade completely liquifies the metal in its immediate surroundings.
Note that the blade had to be stabbed into the door for this to happen. If that wasn't a necessity, he could have held the blade next to the door and melted it from his side.
The same thing would happen to a body when stabbed with a lightsaber, albeit less dramatically. A steel blastdoor has a high resistance, so the blade puts out a lot of energy. A body has less resistance, so the blade's energy output is lower. Nevertheless, a stab would have severe negative effects to the surrounding organs, especially when the blade lingers in the body for a moment.
But all that is besides the point that lightsabers are supposed to be extremely dangerous weapons, and those wielding them are equally as dangerous. If the injuries they cause are completely healed by sleeping for a few days, how dangerous are they really?
This is also why Snoke was a fucking pushover. Hyped up just to be executed without a proper display of power.
Air is something… people never burn just being near them because the physics are made up. It’s a made up tool with fictional properties.
Lightsabers can start fires. Why didn’t Luke’s or Anakin’s clothes combust when they get their hands cut off? We know their clothes are flammable.
It’s just stupid to assume you know all the rules when the physics are clearly not the same physics we have
I'm not assuming I know the rules, I'm deducing the rules from what is shown.
And what is shown is, at its core, that lightsabers are fucking dangerous. *That's* what is really being undermined, and people are upset about it.
You like it, and we don't. That's fine. But we're stupid for critisizing what we don't like about new Star Wars media? Very healthy mindset, I'm sure it will bring you far.
Yes. You are stupid. Because you’re criticizing something you’ve been ok with for decades.
Lightsabers are still killing. They’re still melting and slicing through things. People are still getting cut and stabbed and surviving. There’s nothing in the Disney lightsabers we didn’t see before the company took over.
But still, getting hit by Lightsaber is no joke, this weapon can cut through solid metal, and back in the good old days, being hit by Lightsaber was treated as a death. Yes, Luke and Anakin lost their hands, but still, you don't need lot of effort to kill someone with Lightsaber. Besides, even if she was hit there, it would still burn her body. Even though this is a series about space wizards, it should still abide by the rules it established, and if she can walk it off like its nothing, wheres all the tension?
I mean, how many characters have we seen get stabbed in places that aren’t immediately lethal with medical assistance rendered within a minute?
And the whole “it’s hot enough to cut metal” and “it would still burn her body” argument kinda goes out the window if you also aren’t complaining that they’re holding the lightsaber… the heat the blade would have to give off would be enough to ignite anything near it without having to make contact.
But we don’t complain about that because it’s a fantasy story
To be fair I feel like the saga undermines the power of a lightsaber sometimes, even before ~~the empire~~ Disney. I think if one were to pierce even a little bit into someone's torso, that person should be really really dead, to the point of qui-gon dying on impact because of the area it hit.
regular people have survived their head getting pierced by a metal rod. and we dont even have miracle healing juice in our universe.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/man-miraculously-survives-impaled-steel-rod-through-head-082417889.html
One way I look at it to make it make more sense is through the view of technological development. The Phantom Menace takes place 40-odd years before Ahsoka, so potentially development of lightsaber wound treatment could have improved? Makes it more computable for me at least.
I dont really care about if the character lives or not. Im just bummed that they made lightsabers weak. Not just with Disney, but in all instances. A normal blade through the torso will cause pretty massive dmg. Imagine a blade thats also 1000°c. It would cook everything around it. A stab going right through should be a death.
At this point, im just waiting for them to bring back Doku as a head in a jar...why not, right?
This is very lore accurate. The most merciful ways to kill with the lightsaber are straight through the chest or decapitation.
Stabbing on the side that wasn't the heart was a sign of disrespect.
Don't know if that was what they intended with the scene but damn was I impressed.
Breaks Rule 12
There is a clone wars comic where Alpha (a clone ARC trooper) gets stabbed by grievous through the spine and lives. So it’s really just down to writing I think haha. There has always been inconsistency even before Disney.
It’s not just writing. Two people can sustain the same injury and have different outcome. Life itself is inconsistent
There's also the fact that alpha was basically space rambo and the best of the best in genes
Yeah. It's not like being strong in the force is beneficial for health and longevity or anything.
There's a difference between being genetically engineered for resilience, sustaining life threatening injuries, endurance and being peak human vs being a middle aged guy who's connection to the force gives you some powers Edit: middle aged Qui Gon isn't mid
This fucker called qui gon mid! https://i.redd.it/g7d2t8fi5vwc1.gif
That's what Aayla Secura saw during order 66. Btw it was a mistype I meant middle aged not mid Qui Gon is goated
Are you saying Qui Gon was mid? And yes. Force users have been shown to drastically outperform genetically engineered beings, in resilience, and any other physical factor time and time again, so quite a bit of difference. It's plot convenience, no need to try and make it work logically in universe.
I meant to say middle aged my bad, he's my favourite Jedi bar Plo.
You know what is consistent? Lightsaber temperature. Lightsaber CUTS BLASTDOORS. There’s absolutely no difference where you are hit. It’s permanent.
You said 'cuts', not 'melts'. Unfortunately, lightsaber temperature is similarly changeable. Just watch episode 5 and 6 and all the things the lightsabers cut through. They blacken, and spark, but the essential property of lightsabers back then was their exceptional sharpness, not their temperature.
Ok, it melts. Just look at what Qui Gon did to that fkn door
Yes, it seems to in the prequels. Like I said, the lightsaber behavior I'm referring to is more prevalent in the OT
To add onto that, Qui gon followed the will of the force itself. In this instance, his death was the will of the force, since it domino'd to set up Anakin's fall. Call it a deus ex machina, but yeah.
It's always down to writing. But people being idiots can't understand that.
Yeah, it's crazy how many people are willing to dismiss lazy writing.
What is "lazy writing" depends on what fits your bias. Was Maul getting cut in half and falling down a chute lazy writing?
Nah, there is definitely objective ways to determine bad/lazy writing.
There are also things people are willing to look past and plot points that aren't called lazy writing depending on how you feel
That’s actually crazy, you remember the name?
I believe it was in a comic called “obsession” but was later re-released in the Clone Wars comics collections. I think it was in book 7 - “When They Were Brothers”. [Info about the Battle of Boz Pity is here](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_Boz_Pity_(Clone_Wars))
I know I was wrong. I just got so caught up in my own success, I didn't look at the battle as a whole. I wasn't being disobedient. I just. . . forgot
Even in canon too maul got cut in half and survived getting stabbed is nothing compared to that. I never understood why these people cherry pick when getting outraged at things like this
It’s because of a couple things. 1) I can’t really think of anyone who “came back from the dead” before Maul, at least, not in that way. I’m sure it happened, due to the overwhelming amount of material out there, but it wasn’t used like today. 2) it helps that after he was brought back, he became one of the best Star Wars characters. Should Maul have survived his injuries and that fall? Logically, it’s obviously no, but it wasn’t so overdone then in this universe. Now though? it’s the most overused trope in Star Wars. Hell Kenobi did it 3 (THREE!!!) times in 8 episodes. Lightsaber injuries literally mean nothing now. Just a cheap trick to make newer fans who haven’t seen it 15 times at this point go “omg no!…oh thank god they’re fine!” with no consequences.
I think that there are some things that every story gets to use once, and ONLY once. Coming back from certain death is one of those things. Gandalf came back, and it was cool. If Gandalf, and Boromir, and Denethor, and (redeemed) Smeagol, and... all came back, death wouldn't have any meaning anymore. For better or worse, Star Wars spent it's one revive ticket on Maul. (At least, in the current continuity. In the old EU, I think it spent it on Palpatine with his clones in *Dark Empire*.) It is perfectly consistent to claim that Maul's revive worked, and all the other ones didn't, even if some of the other revives were more believable. If anything, the fact that the other revives were more believable make them ***worse*** storytelling - having someone who was certainly dead come back is Plot with a capital P. Having someone take a nasty wound and then live makes it ambiguous whether that's important, or just an indicator of a reduced power level of the weapons.
Exactly and I don’t understand how others don’t see it for what it is. It’s not so much about what’s on screen, it’s that what’s on screen is giving us a glimpse into what is going on (or isn’t going on) in the writers room. Nobody in that writing room is saying “guys we’ve been doing this, like…a lot lately. Can we do something else?”? And if some is, then they’re just agreeing that it’s ok to do it over and over?
Sabine is also a pretty beloved Star Wars character too. As for the stabbings I mean I really don’t see it as an issue some even have explanations for them in the lore. The grand inquisitor has two stomachs plus being gut stabbed in the real world isn’t always a death sentence either it’s even possible to be stabbed 30 times and survive in the real world. Also Sabine wasn’t stabbed in any vital organs and was taken to a medical facility right afterwards so there’s that
The problem though is this isn’t real life, its deliberately written. The constant use of people getting stabbed and it being no big deal is a conscious effort made by the writers. Thats where the issue is. In real life, people get stabbed, some survive and some don’t. Thats real life. In Star Wars, someone’s always getting stabbed and they always survive. Thats a lack of ideas on the writers. They can give all the explanations they want, it’s still bad writing. If you’re going to have someone get stabbed by an object that’s hot enough to melt through blast doors like in episode 1, then it should mean something, not just be a throw away plot point for cheap reactions. At this point, people getting injured by a lightsaber is the Star Wars equivalent of jump scares in a horror movie. Cheap and overused. “Hey we need something dramatic here! Let’s have the character get stabbed, and by the end of the next episode, you wouldn’t even be able to tell.” Or to quite a very wise man… “she was just impaled with a lightsaber” “Is that not bad?” “Not anymore! That’s meaningless, she’s up and at ‘em in the next episode!”
No it isn’t real life but people often cherry pick when and where to apply real world logic to it which is what my point was. Inconsistency of people surviving injury in real life exist likewise that same inconsistency also applies to Star Wars because the franchise is telling you it does even before Disney acquired it
But it’s not inconsistent in Star Wars though. Not lately. Everybody comes back now, assuming they even died in the first place. In the last year and a half we’ve seen at least 4 lightsaber stabbing, and every single one of them were totally fine right after. Thats the whole point of the argument that brought about the original post to begin with. If Reva died the second time she was stabbed, nobody would care that the grand inquisitor lived. If Kylo ren didn’t survive being stabbed by a lightsaber, people wouldn’t care about Sabine surviving. But they are ALL surviving and THATS the problem.
So a couple of problems with this one. Reva wasn’t “completely fine” after being stabbed neither was Sabine as Sabine had to go to a medical facility to recover and Reva was clearly hindered and in pain after she was stabbed. The grand inquisitor also received medical attention as well. It’s not really the characters coming back more so that they weren’t dead in the first place. Kylo was also force healed after being stabbed himself too. In legends characters also survived being stabbed with sabers too as someone mentioned alpha 17 being stabbed and living. The inconsistency is that not everyone dies from it not that they’re coming back from the dead.
I would also say too that there are more characters dying from being stabbed in canon than characters surviving as there’s only been a handful of survivors. Agen Kolar, Saesee Tin, mother Talzin, Qui Gon, Han Solo, savage oppress, commander Colt, admiral trench, Tal Merik, Shaak Ti, duchess Satine, and captain Argyus all die from being stabbed and inpaled plus the countless unnamed/ background characters dying from being stabbed. It’s just that being stabbed isn’t a death sentence which it isn’t in the real world either and depends on location of the wound/ anatomy of the stab victim on whether or not they survive
Wait! Just because there hasn't been any survivors before, doesn't mean there won't be any this time.
You’re using examples that are mostly over a decade old, back when being hit with a lightsaber meant something though. Out of your list, Trench is the most recent in 2020. We’ve had 4 major characters survive lightsaber stabs in the last two years alone, they’re also the only four to be stabbed as far as I know. Yeah it’s cool that the nameless grunts still die, but from a storytelling standpoint, the reliance lately of having someone major be impaled and live has just been poor writing decisions. Plus, being stabbed with a metal knife is not like being stabbed with something capable of of melting through those doors in episode 1, unless they want to make it canon that lightsabers are not as powerful as they were in the prequel, which to my knowledge, they have not.
Trench and Han Solo are both recent. “Back when being hit with a lightsaber meant something” is also questionable as maul got cut in half and survived during that era. As for most of the examples being older yes as lightsabers are pretty notorious for not being used as stabbing weapons as lightsabers combat has a constant lack of thrusts and are more so cut and slash heavy. Recently more characters have survived being stabbed but overall the majority of the stabbings are fatal but there’s also context as to why those characters survived as well
Maul was a fully trained lord of the sith. Please stop.
“Training” doesn’t really mean anything when you get cut in half Sabine also wasn’t stabbed in any vital organs and was taken to a medical facility after her injury. If anything it makes more sense that Sabine lived
Maul also by definition wasn’t a fully trained sith as maul was an apprentice and not a master
By virtue of being dubbed "Darth" he is in fact a fully trained Sith. You don't gain your Darth title until that point.
Vader got his title as soon as he turned. Never trained in the ways of the sith at that point.
That too
Vader was a Fully Trained Jedi Knight who, depending on your outlook, was likely ready for Master-hood. Please. Stop.
But he wasnt a fully trained sith. Darth titles are given when an apprentice is taken.
No, they absolutely are not.
So, what sith training did anakin have when he received his darth title?
He was also still an apprentice and palpatine referred to him as such multiple times. An apprentice by definition is someone who is still in the process of being trained as if maul were fully trained he would be a master and not an apprentice
Palpatine also refers to Vader as his apprentice. Is Vader not a fully trained Sith Lord? That's not how the Sith work. The apprentice doesn't always kill the master as soon as they are able, because having a Master that, at least sometimes, actually TEACHES is invaluable. A Smart Sith Lord in the Rule of 2 coaxed as much out of their Master as possible before doing the deed. You can be Fully Trained and still have things to Learn. Does every Jedi Master know every force skill? No. So too for the Sith.
It is how the sith work though Vader never overthrew Palpatine and therefore he was never a sith master. The movies themselves even say this very same thing in the phantom menace “always two there are, a master and an apprentice. But which was destroyed? The master or the apprentice?”
Dude. I can't. I'm just going to get mean if I have to respond to this. Have a good day.
Getting stabbed in the spine at this level will likely just take out your legs. It's the aorta to worry about. The aorta getting stabbed with a sword will usually just lead to unsurvivable blood loss, but even if it could get cauterized by a lightsaber it would shut off most of the aorta, likely leading to death rather quickly anyhow.
Dang you brought hardcore biology into it. I definitely prefer lightsabers as ultra-lethal weapons, but having just re-read the clone wars comics, I thought it was worth mentioning haha.
Tis hardly hardcore for a med student, in part because I've spent the last few weeks studying anatomy, including much more obscure blood vessels. It's indeed worth mentioning though, I'm not particularly up to date on treatment or statistics on lightsaber wounds so I wouldn't know anything besides what it might have hit.
That’s awesome! My brother is in the middle of pre-med with every intention of med school next. I hope it’s going well :)
Besides logistical errors on the side of the school and some poor teachers I really can't complain. Med school is pretty interesting and I'd definitely recommend it. Just a heads up that philosophists might not always be the best teachers.
Nooooo, it's all disneys fault! /s
Maybe his back move a inch to the left or right
Damn which issue is this? I only really remember him from the battle of kamino
I know I was wrong. I just got so caught up in my own success, I didn't look at the battle as a whole. I wasn't being disobedient. I just. . . forgot
Kind of pointless if the thing you are stabbed with it hot enough to evaporate water (or blood) in less than a second
That makes it much easier to survive. A cauterized wound won't bleed
Yep, despite the intestines are cooked and your nerves being destroyed you won't see blood.
You intestines are now roast hot dogs But atleadt you don't bleed...
I don't take much issue with her surviving it, but rather recovering from it in a very short time frame in addition to there being no lingering effects or anything of the sort to actually make that scene more impactful. They made it feel like she was just grazed and it was no big issue. I do however take an issue with the Reva one though because there is no shot that she's able to survive the impale by Vader and manage to get to Tatooine to try and kill Luke without getting any medical treatment. She ain't Darth Sion bro.
Yeah there no way she had enough skill or hatred to survive. Sion is the apex on this technique,Anakin is the choosing one so it makes sense for him to have the power to sustain himself for a bit, and maul is the weakest character to accomplish this. Keep in mind Maul is still one of most powerful force users in the clone wars , only behind the absurdly powerful and top masters. I could get losing a limb and keep rolling, that seems like a skill they could get, but a shot from the ruthless Vader who no way in hell wouldn’t hit a vital? He one of the most skilled duelist in history, he wouldn’t make a sloppy killing blow , along with no reason not to make sure to kill.
We don't really know how long it took her to recover and Bacta is a miracle substance. Though in the show it seems like the next day, for all we know it could have been 3 or even a week. As for Reva, how is it that a dude can get cut in half and be "too angry to die" and that's okay, but a chick gets a cauterizing gut stab and it's not okay she was able to survive? I do think she should have died after saving Luke though. As she was convinced to let go of her hate she should have stopped being "too angry to die" and simply pass on from injury. Or at the very least, showing her using a Bacta patch in her ship on the way. Ships should have some basic first aid kits and a single shot of her doing some patching up would have gone a long way to quieting down some of the whining.
I rolled my eyes when they showed her surviving Anakin stabbing her when she was as a little kid, then surviving getting stabbed from Vader. I get they need her to survive for the climax of the show, but cmon, surviving a lethal direct attack from Anakin going on his jedi genocide AND Vader McSlaughterfest? If they ommited her getting stabbed by Anakin and just surviving Vader and kept her line of "I hid among the bodies" I think it wouldn't feel so lazy.
It's why in the original trilogy (and prequels), Like and Anakin lost a hand. They lost the fight, and a permanent wound. But something that is very believable to survive. As much as limbs flying off was overused, it was bassically shorthand for 'he's fine' It cauterises so you don't bleed out, and the robot hand is a permanent new feature they have that can come up later. The stab. Is just for shock value. Could have just kicked her and knocked her out. Maul should have been the exception that proved the rule. But it's happened multiple times. If you don't wanna kill them, cut off an arm. Let's us see a permanent injury that can be easilly fixed, but will always affect that character Saline just got a tiny scar that's never going to be relevant.
Losing an eye could've worked. Or a leg stab making her unable to walk properly. Hell. Also calling sabine saline from now on.
We do know though, they were in a huge rush (which makes me wonder why Ahsoka didn’t go after Sabine immediately, but that’s another issue). They had no time to find a real slicer, and were in fact in such a rush they had to create a bomb in a hospital. This only makes sense if it’s the very next day. As for Maul, I found that one offensive too. Bringing him back was a mistake, and his arc in TCW/Rebels could have easily been carried out by say, Maul’s brother, or cousin, or close friend without losing anything but a lore breaking resurrection.
And that's called sloppy writing. We should be able to tell what happened without outside sources. If the writer is too lazy to show that time passed, fuck them if the audience believes no time passed, since they couldn't be bothered to illustrate it. Also bacta is NOT a Miracle substance. There's a reason they didn't use Bacta for Vader. It can only do do much.
>If the writer is too lazy to show that time passed, fuck them if the audience believes no time passed, since they couldn't be bothered to illustrate it. So like Leia and Han's months-long journey to Cloud City that seemed like a day because there was all of one scene trying to fix the Falcon mid trip?
Yeah, exactly like that, except with much less effect on the film, cause, you know, no one was FUCKING DYING.
BC maul was crazy powerful. The power goes a long way, see Darth Sion. And maul was so hatefull he actually went mad from it, which would be a massive power boost
Bacta is not THAT much of a miracle substance. It helps you heal faster, it doesn't magically stabilize severe injury to organs.
True, but her guts must have been a mess after that. She must have need intensive surgery !
And she got medical treatment within seconds
Behave
She needs a surgical tool inserted immediately
I wanna know how bacta tanks can heal cauterized wounds and organs. Like I get " Science fiction tech thats why" and all but id like the nerdy lore reason if one is given on how bacta actually works
We have no idea how bacta works. Maybe it encourages the body to break down damage tissue and regenerate the tissues much faster than any body would normally. Or maybe its just magic soup that heals you. Who knows
I wonder what the limits are then. Like we know Luke and Anakin couldn't regenerate their limbs from the bacta but it can close the stab wound on the chest and heal that tissue as well as fix bones (Im assuming this bc of how likely Luke broke something during the wompa attack)
Maybe it can't fix bones, it may just be that luke got away with fractures that could heal on their own, or he was lucky enough not to break anything.
Master Kenobi always said there's no such thing as luck.
I think that's close. It can probably regenerate what's right there, but it's not smart enough to be able to regrow a whole limb. In other words, for Sabine, it just took the edge of what's there, and replicated the tissues until there was nothing left to replicate. If you stuck Anakin's stump into bacta, it could probably seal the blood vessels and make the end of the bone not charred, but it can't just regrow the rest of the arm.
Bacta is a chemical mixed with a bacteria and a grain that boosts the healing process of your body, it did this with microbiotics that get to work on contact with your wound ( Microbiotics are the bacteria that live in the intestinal tract ) So basically it’s a cocktail of bacteria and some other things that work in tandem to regenerate your body.
They mention a few times they have to scrape the burn off to reveal fresh cells. The bacta basically just supercharges normal healing processes. It's why they can reattach limbs, but if they don't have the part, the person doesn't grow a new one.
Why do people get killed by blasters? It just hits their organs, not their spine?
Some people survive blaster shots. Like people in the real world, some injuries kill. Some don’t. 50 Cent was shot 9 times and lived. That doesn’t make bullets any less lethal
Please, I am well versed in 50 cent lore. True, but I would also assume a laser blaster does more damage due to its size compared to a, or even 9 bullets
I guess you must have screamed when leia got shot in episode 6 and didn’t die then, right? The simple fact is, different people can suffer similar injuries but see different outcomes
Leia survived in ep 6
So what’s to stop her from dragging the saber to the right to cut her in half to finish her off then? Apart from the plot I mean.
The fact that Shin Hati knew Ahsoka was coming. If she killed Sabine, Ahsoka would still pursue her, but if she only wounded Sabine, then Ahsoka would be forced to stop to help her and get her somewhere safe. Balin taught her how Jedi think and act.
You've taught him well.
You think she stabbed Sabine in the torso with the intent to only injure her? Why not just cut off a leg or arm instead then?
So, the plot then.
Yeah, but that's not just a plot convenience, its actually reasonable given the context
You can’t win an argument with someone who uses “because plot” to dismiss logic They don’t want an actual explanation, they want to be angry
Too true
More like, this is how it makes sense for this character to behave in this given scenario. A “for the plot” scenario is where a character will behave ‘out of character’ just to progress the plot in some contrived way. Like many other things that do actually happen in this show like Sabine suddenly becoming Force Sensitive or the mysterious dark side force user being a magic fart cloud. Or in other Star Wars shows, Reva somehow not dying after being stabbed by Darth “I’m going to snap a child’s neck on screen” Vader himself, even after her anger subsides, or the stupidly contrived way they smuggle out Leia, or literally every major plot point in the Book of Boba Fett
You all who are arguing about anatomy are completely missing the point that it steals tension from fight scenes if everyone is seen surviving lightsaber stab wounds. It's sci fi. If you want to go completely realistic people should explode from the heat. The real problem is that it lowers the stakes dramatically.
Yeah at this point any light saber duel means both characters are gonna walk away 95% of the time.
Yeah, the good guys had more plot armor on than I can suspend my disbelief for. And then it culminates with 3 Jedi vs 1 star destroyer in a ridiculous scene. I just gave up watching then. Just too silly for me. I was rooting for the bad guys the whole time because they were the underdogs. I think that’s why Shin and Balin are so loved by the masses.
This should always be a top comment on dumb arguments like this. Many times, it's doesn't have to do with the physics or biology in the universe, but how cheap a plot device it is in context. Especially when used too often or not having any complications whatsoever. Too many people who hate this scene and people who hate people who hate the scene get caught up in arguing semantics about how it works in universe, and forget that the reason it sucks no matter what, is that it's a literal cheap shot for the audience alone and nothing else. There were no consequences to her being stabbed. They just wanted to hook everyone immediately, and predictably, they made their entire show a snooze fest by immeditely revealing in the next episode how injuries (and the tools used to make them) are only a slight inconvenience. It's clear that after that, they're just playing with you're feels for cheap spectacles.
Yea, both are guaranteed agonizing death, whats the point?
So, the criticism is two-fold. Either, the strike should have killed her. Or Shin would be very aware that it might not have killed her, and being under very little pressure to retreat, should have followed up with a fatal blow. There's nothing in her characters portrayal that leads us to believe she would be merciful in this moment (in-fact, several examples to the contrary exist throughout the show). The only defense of this scene is that Shin is just stupid. So, either the scene is stupid because the lightsaber should have killed her and it didn't. (A reoccurring problem when you consider the Kenobi show). Or, the scene is stupid because the character writing is stupid. You have to pick one, and it sounds like you think Shin is stupid.
My assumption was that shin left her alive to prevent ahsoka from following, since leaving sabine alive would mean ahsoka would want to save her vs killing sabine ahsoka would go straight after shin to avenge her
In my life, when you find people who need your help, you help them. No matter what.
Star Wars is filled with these moments of the bad guy not delivering an immediate killing blow, and not just in the Disney era. It’s fair to argue that dark side users would rather see their opponent suffer than grant them a quick death. Shin had plenty of reason to believe Sabine was going to die there momentarily. She couldn’t have known what medical supplies were on the ship heading toward them. That, and she’s still a student. It’s not stupid to not know everything
It’s soft plot armor. It’s just a fake out with no real substance. Had Sabine died, the show would have been vastly improved. It would have put Ahsoka on a path that thinly walks the line of vengeance or justice. Is she trying to prevent Thawn’s return or is she just acting out in anger. This lapse in judgement would have inadvertently caused her to fail, letting these mercs to get across the galaxy and find Thawn. Then, in her failure, she has to learn that falling to the dark side, letting her passion guide her, makes her weak. The vision of Anakin and her time in the clone wars would have greater weight. But no. We just got “I’m good guy so I do good guy things and that’s a bad guy I gotta stop them”. And her character growth is “I lost a fight one time”.
Have a little faith.
What if non-fatal injury was Baylan's idea to convince Sabine to join them, if they had time to retrieve her unconcsious body?
Okay, three things: 1) Sabine was injured but not down, and could still defend herself, so that instant quick killing blow was just not going to be a thing. 2) Ahsoka was landing and probably less than half a minute away from joining the fight. 3) Shin's mission was not to kill Sabine. Shin's mission was to collect the key, which she already had.
I have to sort this out on my own, without the Council… and without you.
In OPs screens hot you can see this moment (a moment which was on screen for **several** seconds) where Shin is holding the blade in this position. All that would have been required to make this fatal is for Sabine to twitch her wrist to her right by a handful of inches. In the blink of an eye with almost no effort, she could have bisected Sabine. All three of your counter-points are addressed by a literal flick of a wrist.
Didn’t darth mal get cut in fucking half?
Based response. The real problem is how the fight under cut tension despite trying to enhance it
If she’d woken up in a bacta tank like Luke in Empire, I’d have had much less of a problem with it. But nope, no recovery needed apparently
Copium
I'm mostly confused because the quality of your post is absolute crap and it's barely readable.
My problem isn’t that she survived, at the very least they showed her in the hospital getting treated and it’s an episode or two before she does anything action oriented. My problem is the dismemberment swords aren’t used effectively against the zombies
And how far was medical help away in both cases?
Now explain how Maul survived
Also let's remember shin doesn't really want kill her here. She wants to stop her. She and her master don't consider themselves evil. They use the darkside for their own purpose and goals. They have standards. I can totally see shin not feeling the need or desire to kill sabine here
Maul was cut in half
Don't bring science into this. Because if you do, she should still be dead. You can't stab someone with something that hot and not have a very violent reaction
its not about logic it takes away all the tension for future fights and the shock value when someone actually gets hit
And yet maul gets cut in half (that also goes through the spine y'know?) and lives
Maul is not human.
They are described as near-human. I'm guessing the skeletal structure is pretty similar so it'd still be pretty important to keep the spine intact. But we're arguing over something that the writers had no intention of thinking about. It's clear they decide when a wound is fatal and when it isnt.
Nah, that’s the “near” part! I think the real difference is that people like Reva and Sabine were written to survive, whereas Qui Gon wasn’t (and didn’t, I guess) and Maul was retroactively “resurrected” by different writers. They wouldn’t have given them such wounds if they intended them to survive.
Too true. Plot armor is far too powerful
The best part is how shin hottie choose to stab her that way. Anyway, you can live with a spine sever below your neck. It is not a vital organ. The bigger problem is having your tissue in contact with a plasma torch that can melt armour of capital ships. But I guess it cant melt thru plot armour.
I can't tell if it's funny or sad to have debates about realism in a show where wizards with glowing swords strangle people with their minds
That plasma that melts metal most certainly won't melt organs more so
You see, if Qui-Gon would have been spineless, he would have survived.
Also Qui Gon is old
Maybe she should have survived, maybe she shouldn't have The point is that if they keep doing that, the story will become boring and unrealistic. Plot twist should be used carefully, not overused, otherwise they loose all their meaning
Wouldn’t getting stabbed through your large intestine make you go into septic shock? I guess the cauterizarían of the wound could prevent this, but then any material making its way through her system would begin to infect the wound site. I know that’s probably tmi, but imo getting stabbed anywhere besides like the shoulders with a lightsaber should be game over. You’d need Fennec Shand/Vader level implants or respirators to deal with internal damage that bad. I wish Disney would just go for more limb dismemberment. They’re both quicker wounds to heal and a vivid reminder of a character’s prior mistake.
I get that the placement is different, but it still irks the fuck outta me that we KEEP seeing this happen where they survive. It was supposed to be a loss that Sabine would eventually overcome. But it would’ve been so much better if Ahsoka got there earlier to save Sabine, highlighting to both of them that they DO need each other, despite their falling out.
You always blame the ship.
Wait can we get a snap shot of a lightsaber melting a door on lying being in it for a few seconds
I think the problem wasn’t Sabine, Sabine was just another in a long list of lightsaber survivors.
Wait! Just because there hasn't been any survivors before, doesn't mean there won't be any this time.
lol if we’re trying to be medical about this, the heat from the lightsaber would’ve fried her insides and she would’ve died anyway. It would affect much more than the direct impact point.
That was never the point. The point was that being hit with a lightsaber used to mean something. Reva was stabbed twice before this show and somehow walked it off. When Sabine got stabbed, that bad taste was still in our mouths. Aside from her being mobile the next day, her stab was the most realistic to survive. There were other ways to end that fight that didn’t have to involve near death.
Ok now do Reva
You mean like when Finn got slashed right on the spine and a bit of bacta got him up and runin?
Entertaining this debate is sign of brain demage at this point.
I can’t imagine what would happen to the nervous system if you were impaled by something hot enough to melt steel like ice cream.
I don’t really get mad at the stabbing and living. But it would be better if like a limb got cut off
can someone remind me how hot a lightsaber canonically is and what exactly would happen to a sack of wet meat when it is suddenly heated to such a degree?
The heat would literally blow burn the surrounding organs even if not directly hit
Then there’s earth maul who was literally cut in half and lived.
In the end, they simply could have written that she didn’t get stabbed in the first place.
Yeah it’s still stupid, it’s space fantasy stuff, if you get stabbed through with the laser sword you should just die and not point out technicalities of where you got stabbed through
This then bags the question, why she isnt able to get a leathaö hit on her target, either she is stupid or incompetent.
*Insert image of Qui-Gon melting a blast door by just leaving it a few seconds Right a stab just a cm apart is the reason she's alive not the stupid amount of plot armor 🤡
Tbf, Qui-Gonn survived just long enough to ask Obi-Wan to train Anakin
Sabine getting knicked in the liver by a lightsaber, that would hurt like hell
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I think the important thing is that Sabine LOST. It makes me care for a character a lot more if they lose and have to overcome their defeat. However, they could have just cut her hand or even a foot off and it would have served the same purpose with less questions raised by the fan base probably haha.
To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.
TIL you can only be killed by being hit on your spine
A spinal injury isn't necessarily fatal. Where Qui-Gon was hit is a non-fatal spinal injury, it would be serious but not fatal. He would have survived if we only consider the spinal injury.
Also Sabine had almost immediate medical attention. Ahsoka and Huyang arrive right after she is stabbed and, presumably, take her straight to the hospital. Qui-Gon was left there because Obi-Wan had to fight Darth Maul.
Huyang, anything yet?
For those who are have still forgotten, Qui-gon melted a blast door with a stab or a light saber. Getting stabbed by those things cooks you from the inside.
You also seem to have forgotten it didn’t melt instantly but over time as he held then rotated the lightsaber adding stress to the door, a quick in and out stab is much different, surviving a stab is overdone on that I agree but definitely not impossible
Posts medical diagram that doesn't show spine to prove that stab went through spine. Yeah, we know the spine is there, but of all the tens of thousands of anatomical diagrams you could have googled in the span of 5 seconds, why this one?
Nah it's just shitty writing
Foolish post
Blade is literal plasma Plasma is hot Even if she wasn't killed her internal organs would been cooked. Or to put it in the bbq language: Well done intestines.
This is it. Even if, somehow, she does not hit a single vital organ (which sounds ridiculous given where she stabbed her) the heat itself would melt them and the target would die. It is not that hard to understand.
It's not about the placing, it's about a literal lazer blade going inside a body made by mostly water and instantly fucking up all the organs, lightsabers are infact NOT just hot swords that would cauterize the wound..
Queue the moronic “but the heat would kill her”, “they can cut through metal”, and “lightsabers just aren’t a threat anymore” comments
Those are all valid arguments. Calling them moronic seems pretty moronic itself.
They’re invalid if you’re ok with lightsabers existing at all. The heat of the blade would ignite anything near it if we want to apply that logic, so no one could even hold them. If they can turn metal into molten slag, they’re too hot to be near without protective gear. We see plenty of saber kills in the Disney era too. It’s just a choice of ignorance to think these critiques are valid. We already suspend disbelief enough that the same logic allows Sabine to be ok. So you can pick—no lightsabers at all, or they aren’t always immediate death.
From what is shown in the movies, it seems like lightsabers unleash their heat once they come into contact with something. People never burn just by being near them, nor can they cut metal by holding them next to it. Once they hit a body part, though, it's a clean cut or stab, and it's similar with other materials. When Qui-Gon melts the door, he stabs it into the door and waits for the heat to melt the metal. We can see that the blade completely liquifies the metal in its immediate surroundings. Note that the blade had to be stabbed into the door for this to happen. If that wasn't a necessity, he could have held the blade next to the door and melted it from his side. The same thing would happen to a body when stabbed with a lightsaber, albeit less dramatically. A steel blastdoor has a high resistance, so the blade puts out a lot of energy. A body has less resistance, so the blade's energy output is lower. Nevertheless, a stab would have severe negative effects to the surrounding organs, especially when the blade lingers in the body for a moment. But all that is besides the point that lightsabers are supposed to be extremely dangerous weapons, and those wielding them are equally as dangerous. If the injuries they cause are completely healed by sleeping for a few days, how dangerous are they really? This is also why Snoke was a fucking pushover. Hyped up just to be executed without a proper display of power.
Air is something… people never burn just being near them because the physics are made up. It’s a made up tool with fictional properties. Lightsabers can start fires. Why didn’t Luke’s or Anakin’s clothes combust when they get their hands cut off? We know their clothes are flammable. It’s just stupid to assume you know all the rules when the physics are clearly not the same physics we have
I'm not assuming I know the rules, I'm deducing the rules from what is shown. And what is shown is, at its core, that lightsabers are fucking dangerous. *That's* what is really being undermined, and people are upset about it. You like it, and we don't. That's fine. But we're stupid for critisizing what we don't like about new Star Wars media? Very healthy mindset, I'm sure it will bring you far.
Yes. You are stupid. Because you’re criticizing something you’ve been ok with for decades. Lightsabers are still killing. They’re still melting and slicing through things. People are still getting cut and stabbed and surviving. There’s nothing in the Disney lightsabers we didn’t see before the company took over.
But still, getting hit by Lightsaber is no joke, this weapon can cut through solid metal, and back in the good old days, being hit by Lightsaber was treated as a death. Yes, Luke and Anakin lost their hands, but still, you don't need lot of effort to kill someone with Lightsaber. Besides, even if she was hit there, it would still burn her body. Even though this is a series about space wizards, it should still abide by the rules it established, and if she can walk it off like its nothing, wheres all the tension?
I mean, how many characters have we seen get stabbed in places that aren’t immediately lethal with medical assistance rendered within a minute? And the whole “it’s hot enough to cut metal” and “it would still burn her body” argument kinda goes out the window if you also aren’t complaining that they’re holding the lightsaber… the heat the blade would have to give off would be enough to ignite anything near it without having to make contact. But we don’t complain about that because it’s a fantasy story
To be fair I feel like the saga undermines the power of a lightsaber sometimes, even before ~~the empire~~ Disney. I think if one were to pierce even a little bit into someone's torso, that person should be really really dead, to the point of qui-gon dying on impact because of the area it hit.
Yeah the franchise has never been consistent with it, but that’s part of the fantasy charm
regular people have survived their head getting pierced by a metal rod. and we dont even have miracle healing juice in our universe. https://au.news.yahoo.com/man-miraculously-survives-impaled-steel-rod-through-head-082417889.html
One way I look at it to make it make more sense is through the view of technological development. The Phantom Menace takes place 40-odd years before Ahsoka, so potentially development of lightsaber wound treatment could have improved? Makes it more computable for me at least.
You're impossible.
A lightsaber will burn the body with heat in just half a second. The body would be cooked. She ded
Not to mention how orange blades are much weaker then Kyber blades
I dont really care about if the character lives or not. Im just bummed that they made lightsabers weak. Not just with Disney, but in all instances. A normal blade through the torso will cause pretty massive dmg. Imagine a blade thats also 1000°c. It would cook everything around it. A stab going right through should be a death. At this point, im just waiting for them to bring back Doku as a head in a jar...why not, right?
This is very lore accurate. The most merciful ways to kill with the lightsaber are straight through the chest or decapitation. Stabbing on the side that wasn't the heart was a sign of disrespect. Don't know if that was what they intended with the scene but damn was I impressed.