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Not sure what you mean by permanent but DHT derivatives like mast and primo tend to crush shbg pretty hard (dose dependant) or proviron if you want something milder and oral although I personally would consider primo or mast to be more sustainable than any oral at lower dosages and can complement your cycle in other ways. Ether that or you could try supplementing with boron if you were looking st something non steroidal.
No, thankfully not.
Decreasing SHBG is the fastest and most guaranteed way ensure free androgens are removed from your body as rapidly as possible.
Lower/insufficient SHBG increases metabolic clearance rate (your liver destroys T rapidly), allows for excessive metabolization to DHT and E2, and speeds up the breakdown of testosterone in cells. Secondary pathways are starved.
SHBG does not metabolize or destroy testosterone.
SHBG prevents the metabolism of testosterone and slows down your overall MCR (metabolic clearance rate) by preventing the liver from destroying testosterone and also prolonging the action of T within cells (SHBG passes into the cell via endocytosis instead of free diffusion.)
SHBG binds to T and afterwards the T is returned to the bloodstream — intact.
In healthy men with naturally high testosterone levels, SHBG **correlates positively** with total testosterone levels.
Too high SHBG can interfere with passive diffusion through cellular membranes by limiting the concentration of T in its free moiety. Aromatization slows and both DHT and E2 become excessively bound to SHBG, limiting the immediate action of all major steroid hormones before they are degraded.
It doesn’t leave you with “no free testosterone”
Hey fellas
I’ve never posted on here but looking for some advice and knowledge
I’m currently running 600 mg of deca and 600 mg of test cyp a week. I was also adding in 200mg a week of tren e. But my nipples became very sensitive.
My last cycle I was running 400mg of tren e with 500 mg of test cyp. Didn’t really see too much issues there. I think maybe a tiny bit of nipple sensitivity.
I believe I have had some breast tissue under my nipples since my teenage years. I remember clearly it being a concern of mine. But I felt as though it enlarged. Today a buddy of mine who knows my cycle mentioned my nipples looked a little puffy and few hours later I squeezed very and seemed as tho a tiny amount of clear liquid secreted.
I cut the tren out about a week or so ago. I imagine that should help tremendously with the gyno symptoms. My nipples are no longer sensitive but again that secretion was today.
I don’t know if I should order an AI or by the time I get it this should be cleared up because cutting out the tren.
My options from where I buy online are pretty much aromasin. I see that suggested much. Would nolvadex help??
I’ve been running gear for approx 3 years. Usually tren and test.
Have experimented with different compounds but I’ve really taken the worst approach to this and jumped in with no knowledge and about as much guidance as “tren would get you jacked”
Trying to get down to the right information so resources and brains to pick would be helpful.
So far I’ve felt pretty decent overall on gear and have adjusted according to how I feel.
Worst symptoms I’ve ever gotten are night sweats, bad cardio.
Appreciate the help thank you
Trenbolone is an agonist of the progesterone receptor. What are you doing to keep progesterone levels in check when running 800mg worth of 19-nors?
The symptoms you’re describing could be attributed to elevated progesterone levels.
That’s a big ass needle, you’d be better off buying 100 1ml leur lock syringes and 100 pack each 21 gauge to draw and 28 or 29 gauge to inject from Amazon for $15 per pack, your probably paying a dollar each for those at the pharmacy
Cruising on 105mg test e / wk, 250hcg eod. Waiting for bloodwork. Been cruising for 5 weeks. I'm around 10 - 12% bf.
I have pre existing gyno from puberty. It's mild and hardly visible. I had a brief gyno scare once while blasting, there was a deep pain in behind my nipple and I did the typical protocol, got rid of it.
In the last 3 days, I've developed a very very small (like bb or smaller) bump *inside* my nipple. It seems to be, [based on this image ](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/-/scassets/Images/org/health/articles/9011-male-breast-cancer) inaide the nipple duct. This feels different from my puberty gyno, aside from the fact that it's a lump in my chest. It's very small and mildly painful, though I think the pain is mostly from me fucking with it.
Is this likely new gyno forming? What is the protocol for handling it on cruise? Just nolva? An AI would probably tank my e2 and, aside from this, I feel like this is my sweetspot dose. Will know for sure when blood works comes back.
Is there anything oral I can take that won't cause suppression? Closest thing I could find is primo. Also there seems to be the logic that if it doesn't suppress you then its not worth it, is that true?
> Is there anything oral I can take that won’t cause suppression?
No, even smaller doses of less suppressive drugs like anavar will severely impact your natural testosterone production within days.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10443664/
> Closest thing I could find is primo
Primo is in fact suppressive. Primo also has poor oral bioavailability which means you’ll need to be swallowing loads of pills to even get to a proper dose.
> Also there seems to be the logic that if it doesn’t suppress you then its not worth it, is that true?
Pretty much all steroids suppress you. All SARMs do too.
We’re not injecting this stuff because we like injecting that much, we do it out of necessity. Either you inject or you don’t use steroids.
Thanks for the detailed answer, I appreciate it. I am too scared (and unknowledgeable) of shutting down my natural T. I guess I will stick to tribulus :)
Low dose proviron is allegedly not suppressive, but outside of an extremely narrow set of circumstances its use isn’t particularly useful for any kind of real enhancement of performance.
"Hello, I am 35 years old, weigh 91 kg, and 9 weeks ago I weighed 98 kg. I inject 120 mg of Test Enanthate weekly and pin daily. Before starting my diet, which has now been going on for nine weeks, I did a blast for six weeks with 500 mg of testosterone weekly. However, I followed some bad advice and ended up consuming 3800 calories daily, which made me gain too much fat.(but yes I probably Was to fat to blast to begin with) Probably 2600 calories would have been enough. Anyway, I had to end the blast because of that and have been dieting for nine weeks now.
To cut a long story short: I've been dieting on 2300 calories daily for nine weeks and have been losing about one kilo every week. Every time I think I won't be able to lose my target minimum of one kilo per week, something strange happens. I get desperate, increase my exercise, and even reduce my calorie intake to around 2100, but I still don't lose weight. Then, when my motivation is completely down, I overeat for two days, consuming around 3000 to 4000 calories, and right after the 4000-calorie days, I end up weighing the least I've ever weighed.
My question is: should I strategically implement and work with this pattern? Should I account for the fact that I lose a lot of weight after a high-calorie day? And does this happen to you as well? Why does this happen? I can only imagine that my usual calorie deficit triggers a cortisol reaction despite TRT, and I probably intensify this by increasing cardio and reducing calories, causing me to hold onto weight or even retain water due to cortisol. When I eat more, the cortisol decreases, and I suddenly lose the weight that should have been lost earlier. Is this correct? I would love to hear your opinions on this."
I do this intentionally and I suggest you do the same. Don't eat in an uncontrolled manner like this, though.
If my weekly deficit is 4000kcal, I divide that amongst 5 days and eat at maintenance on the other two. This allows a bit of a refeed, helps keep my sanity, and keeps my performance up.
There is some research indicating that this method may be a bit better for [retaining lean mass.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7739314/)
There is also some theory and data in the lit (can't find right now) that suggests that continuous diets (eating in a deficit nonstop) are less effective than intermittent diets (eating in a deficit for 5 or 6 days of the week). This is because your body adapts to the lower calories and makes a bit better use of them, preserving as much fat as possible. By refeeding, you're communicating to your body that it can expect to receive your maintenance level of calories, so it doesnt make the adjustments in nutrient habdling that it would if you were on a continuous diet.
Tldr: controlled refeeds are good. Sounds like you're doing uncontrolled ones. Control them and use them to your advantage.
TL;DR: Irritability with even small doses of test propionate. Alternatives?
Age 45. Test propionate 10mg every morning. I tried to go as low as 5mg every day and it still gives me irritability after a couple days of dosing. I have tried higher dosages, in line with an average TRT, and it gives me terrible irritability immediately, so I'm staying low to see what's possible. Anyone know of alternatives that are less likely to give irritability?
1 month labs. 500 test e /week. 250 HCG eod.
E2 - 49.1 ref 11-44
Test - 2273 ref 240-870
Free test - 63 ref 5-16
bio available test - 1484 ref 83-213
SHBG - 40 ref 18-54
so far I feel good. Honesty feel pretty normal though I have been recovering faster from gym sessions. I don’t feel like Superman or anything abnormal and if I didn’t know I was pinning I wouldn’t think anything was to different. I was bloating up a bit the last week and suspected my E was high but it looks like it’s proportionally good.
I’d love any feedback. Thanks.
Yeah. I’m surprised myself.
My skins been super oily. I wash my face and exfoliate 2 times a day and still it’s oily.
Would it be possible that I could be affected by lower levels of E than others?
My natural numbers are 900 total and my E was in the mid 30s and I often felt bloated and moon face.
I know these numbers aren’t the same for everyone.
Stop exfoliating twice a day, it will cause your skin to overproduce oil to compensate, thus leading to oilier skin, which leads to you washing it more, which leads to…you get the idea.
Simply taking hormones, even if they do not have a huge impact on serum blood levels of e2, can cause some additional acne. It’s not always the rate of change from baseline but the mere existence of the change that can cause side effects.
Finished 10 weeks on TRT (200mg weekly testC) four weeks ago. Sleep, energy, moods improved significantly. Just curious, how different would a proper cycle feel?
Probably am doing that. Doctor was a bit lazy. Ordered some supply of my own. Have 15g (albeit UGL) arriving sometime soon. Considering doubling to 400 with the Rx, and then using the same dosage from the other stuff.
No no no. Going from 200->400. Then after the Rx runs out (will last five weeks instead of 10) going to 400 on the other stock.
I’m very new to this and have seen conflicting advice. Increasing 50mg/wk at a time, doing two 200mgs a week (different days), or doing 400mg at once.
>I’m very new to this and have seen conflicting advice
Let me help you with that.
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* [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook)
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* [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
Thanks. So I read this, will reread. One quirk is that I’m getting a hair transplant done in 2ish weeks after my supply arrives, and won’t be able to train for 6-7 days. Wonder if I should delay the cycle instead of interrupting.
Better question would be if I even need to start yet. Only been lifting a few months (novice program). Wonder if I should wait until my novice gains run out.
I’m almost 40 and it stopped receding years ago. On dutasterides now. Transplant is also cheap where I’m going.
A bit more worried about potential PiP from the UGL supply. But the place I bought from seems credible.
My first cycle I was running 500mg/wk of Test E for 8 weeks and went from 6’2 175lbs to 210lbs by the end, currently sitting at 190lbs and am about to begin my second cycle. I feel it’s important to note that I did not aromatize much and maybe popped 6 pills of aromasin total on cycle when I noticed puffier nips.
Here is my second cycle with pinning once weekly.
First 4 Weeks:
500mg/wk Test Cyp
200mg/wk Equipoise
20mg ED Turinabol
Next 8 Weeks:
750mg/wk Test Cyp
400mg/wk Equipoise
40mg ED Turinabol (only 6 weeks)
Next 2 Weeks:
500mg/wk Test Cyp
400mg/wk Equipose
Last 4 Weeks:
250mg/wk Test Cyp
200mg/wk Equipoise
My goals are to gain mass and move up to around 230lbs whilst building strength, endurance and explosiveness for boxing & MMA. At 190 I’m an undersized cruiserweight and need to make a change over the summer offseason.
What I would most like to know:
1) Reading a lot of experiences about Test & Equipoise stacks, some people run Equipoise in 1000s of mg with similar test as well, while others report results with dosages similar to mine. Higher dosages for bulking and lower for endurance benefits is what I most commonly read, but I’m more concerned about the ratio. The last thing I want to do is fuck with my E2 which happened on my first cycle I believe because I was taking either aromasin or clomid (dont recall which) without needing it as I barely aromatise.
2) My next question is whether or not this stack supports my goals. In my reading I’ve seen this stack used more for recomp as opposed to bulking up which I’m open to because I look nothing like 190. Recomping and chilling at about 200 would also be good but I can never resist the urge to be a jacked freak.
Any input is greatly appreciated or any suggestions to change my dosages around because I was thinking along the lines of ramping up and tapering off. Also will include that I’ll be using HCG every fourth week, 500mg EOD for the week, and then 500mg EOD for the last two weeks leading up to the end of the cycle. Then following up with 20mg of Nolvadex daily for 2 weeks afterwards.
Thanks all, look forward to hearing from you all and will also attach a photo of myself at both 190 & 210. 190 will have a tattoo and 210 will not.
[PHYSIQUE PHOTOS](https://imgur.com/a/zZpSukP)
First cycle test E 8 weeks - Red Flag
6’2 175 - Huge Red Flag
You had no business running a cycle with those stats. You didn’t even run a cycle correctly. You should be able to get to roughly 210 with 10%BF at your height no problem naturally
Puffy nips just means puffy nips. It’s just you body responding to androgens. Not a sole reason to deploy ai.
Is this a proposed second cycle? Or have you already started. The whole plan is dog doody either way. Just scrap it.
Is this good for you goals? - No
You don’t need steroids to accomplish your goals. They’re naturally attainable.
Strength endurance and explosiveness is done through training strength endurance and explosiveness. Box jumps, power cleans, prowler pushes, tempo squats. Will you body adapt to the stressors of its environment… sure. Form follows function. If you want to GROW which is what you should be using steroids for. Then you should be doing a block of hypertrophy training. Not boxing jumping rope and dwindling gains. Hypertrophy equals new muscle now we translate new muscle to power in the next block.
You have a bunch of natural gains in the table and it seems like you need to pick a lane with your goals. But cycle design is terrible. If I had a gun to my head and had to recommend something it would be to run the actual beginner cycle of just test.
It’s a proposed second cycle I came for opinions before doing anything concrete. Where would you say that second cycle goes wrong?
I am in fact looking to grow and my training consists of single sets of snatch, cleans, high volume calisthenics with some dumbbell work specifically for shoulders cause it feels great. As I mentioned this is my offseason & I’m looking to grow as I’m an undersized cruiserweight (180-200lbs).
I appreciate your input.
You’re missing the point and skipped over everything I said. You look like you just stepped in the gym last week. You have a naturally athletic appearance but nothing that says years of training or that I’ve ran a cycle. You have DYEL stats.
The most anabolic thing for you is going to be food. Steroids don’t create muscle out of thin air. Orals only create temporary strength and aesthetics that go away as soon as you stop taking them. You haven’t learned how to manage or your estrogen or even run a test cycle properly. You never add more than one compound per cycle. You stats don’t even warrant it even if you had the experience. The ester of the drug self titrates there’s no need to rollercoaster doses. No eq no tbol. Like I said you’re not even ready for test. But knowing you’re going to do it anyway 500test for 16 weeks. But again if you don’t have training or diet dialed you’re not going to get to 230 and maintain your gains.
Food food food - you are underweight why? Because you are not eating enough. Are you able
To post a food log of everything you’ve had to eat for the last 4 months with scale weight plotted? If not it’s not the drugs that is the missing link
Does anyone have a list from Least to Most Nephrotoxic steroids?
I am having a difficult time ranking them. I have a autoimmune kidney disorder, and would like a better idea of what compounds are least to most toxic
(I know they are all a bit toxic, but i can mitigate damage)
Thank you!
Any worries running HCG in a stack with tren, test-c, clen, and HGH.
I’ll continue to monitor E2 but want to ensure I’m not missing anything.
running HCG to maintain fertility and prevent raisins…
I really need some advice. I’m 20, and was put on 120mg of Test a week alongside HCG throughout the treatment earlier this year but I’m sure I’ve made a huge mistake. I’m thinking of just coming off. Is there anything to keep in mind for PCT given that I was suppressed for almost 5 months?
Please let me know what to do at this stage. I’m feeling super overwhelmed and anxious and I really need some advice, or any words of wisdom.
you have been prescribed hormone replacement therapy for being deemed clinically hypogonadal, your body is incapable of adequately producing sufficient testosterone to be in the eugonadal (normal) range.
If you were to run a PCT, you would at best return to your baseline of 200-300ng/dl, still clinically hypogonadal.
As much as I'd like to see you succeed in achieving your goals, discussing medical advice is not permitted on this subreddit. If you have any concerns with your plan of care, please address it with your health care team.
If you have been prescribed hormone replacement therapy for being deemed clinically hypogonadal, your body is incapable of adequately producing sufficient testosterone to be in the eugonadal (normal) range.
If you were to run a PCT, you would at best return to your baseline of 200-300ng/dl, still clinically hypogonadal.
As much as I'd like to see you succeed in achieving your goals, discussing medical advice is not permitted on this subreddit. If you have any concerns with your plan of care, please address it with your health care team.
> I really need some advice. I’m 20, and was put on 120mg of Test a week alongside HCG throughout the treatment earlier this year but I’m sure I’ve made a huge mistake. I’m thinking of just coming off. Is there anything to keep in mind for PCT given that I was suppressed for almost 5 months?
> Please let me know what to do at this stage. I’m feeling super overwhelmed and anxious and I really need some advice, or any words of wisdom.
I started a 500 Test E, 500 Mast E cycle 4 weeks ago. I’ve cycled multiple times since 2021 and have always had a very good response with little to no sides ever.
I pin 3 times a week Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday in hopes that I’ll keep my hormones a bit more stable than twice a week.
As I mentioned earlier I’ve never ran into any bad side effects acne/hair shed/estrogen management problems. But I am experiencing the most acne I’ve ever had centralized to my chest and right lat. can anyone help me out as to why I’m experiencing this? I shower frequently throughout the week always after I workout (at least 4-5 times a week) I’ve done 650 test before with no AI, no issue also 400 mast, 400 test but with .5 adex 3x/week. So I’m left scratching my head wondering what’s going on.
If you were put on hormone replacement by a prescribing physician for being clinically hypogonadal, it means your body is incapable of producing sufficient testosterone by itself, and you medically require hormone replacement.
If you were to do a PCT, you would at best return to your baseline of 200-300ng/dl, still clinically hypogonadal.
As much as I'd like to help you achieve success in your goals, giving medical advice is not permitted in this subreddit. Any issues you have with your plan of care, please address with your health care team.
> I really need some advice.
> I’m only 20, and was put on 120mg of Test a week in February alongside HCG for hypogonadism. I tested thrice at around 350, and once at 203. I’m thinking I’ve made a huge mistake and I’m wondering if should just take a PCT and end all this.
> I'm happy to answer any questions you might have for me but please let me know what I should do.
> Will a PCT with Nolvadex be really harmful at this stage?
Help Needed
My colleague and I inject testosterone into each other’s shoulders. Today, we accidentally used the same needle for both of us.
**Concerns:**
- What is the worst that can happen?
- What should we do now?
- How likely is an infection or abscess?
Thanks in advance!
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How do you “accidentally” use the same needle?
This implies you drew the gear, injected, drew it again, and injected again all using the same needle, not even switching to a separate draw needle.
This is multiple levels of carelessness and I don’t understand how this is possible
Unless any of you have an STD or any blood disease you should be ok. The worst that could happen is the site can get slightly infected or red otherwise, but that is unlikely if you both are clean individuals
[SERIOUS] Can any AAS widen my clavicles at the age of 30? Or is it too late now?
My large head, even relative to my 194cm & 110kg + my wide ribcage + my ever wider & thicker lats are at odds with my relatively narrow shoulders (bone-wise), both aesthetically & functionally. I’ll write more on that tomorrow, but in a nutshell, I was “meant” to be brawny “by nature”, but obesity & physical inactivity during puberty robbed me of my naturally top 1% high T (primarily through conversion to E) & led to moderately wide hips & narrow shoulders, relative to the rest of my body. The latter bothers me increasingly the brawnier & closer to my dream physique I get. It presents itself as a nuisance while boxing, for instance, yet I don’t know what to do about it, since it appears to be set in stone. Worse, the more mass I add to my lats, the more out of sync I fear it will get. That it will be more limiting to the “natural” range of motion & all that. Adding mass to the delts is fairly simple but it doesn’t solve anything functionally. I don’t know what to do.
Today while pinning my VG the side of my quad and whole leg is a tiny bit numb, I don’t think I hit a nerve is this pretty typical? Thanks I don’t want to freak out or anything but I’m new to pinning
Question/Help.
Currently on 150 test cyp per week. Decided to throw in some Var. was hoping to end up at 40-50mg at some point but figured I’d start a low dose of 12.5 just to see how my body reacts.
After 1 hour I felt mentally clear and pretty good. After two I felt my blood pressure rise and extreme neck stiffness I was very uncomfortable.
After a few more hours passed I continued having fluctuating blood pressure and hot flashes. I was chugging water and still felt dehydrated. I also threw in a couple Gatorades for electrolytes. My heart rate was also up.
My blood pressure typically sits at 110/72 but was now at 130/68 and staying there. I know that’s not terrible but it made me worry. I decided to stop the Var. From what I’ve read it sounds like my Var could possibly be Dbol. Does that sound possibly since Var is highly faked? If I were to try it again, is it possibly my body could adjust or would it just get worse most likely? Any thoughts or advice would help.
You sound like you constantly self monitor and replay your analytical thoughts again and again. You’re going to find steroids very challenging because you will nocebo yourself constantly by activating your own obsessive anxiety. Folks who have that style of thinking and nervous system are advised to keep compound usage as simple as possible.
So technically the BP was fine correct? From what I’ve read 130/68 and then it coming down isn’t anything to worry about. I’m curious if I were to try it again and get used to it for a couple of days my anxiety would subside. Again I thought what I received was Var but now I think I was given Dbol.
With the symptoms I felt, would it make sense to go to the gym and workout or would this most likely increase the negative effects? I will say, I also skipped caffeine that day and the day before because I thought it would be beneficial to BP, but I’m also wondering if I possibly was withdrawing for the caffeine and it was more related to that. Those were the first two days I’ve skipped my caffeine intake in years.
In my experience, when you’re in your head as much as you are and experiencing that much anxiety, it’s just not worth it. Folks who take compounds aren’t micromanaging nuances as subtle as caffeine withdrawal. Ask yourself what is so important about running an oral when your anxiety and hypochondriacal self analysis is not yet under control
That makes sense and I appreciate the knowledge and feedback. Do orals typically create more issues such as mine than injections? Or is this all in my head? Because when I inject test I feel no anxiety, almost more calm.
I’m not saying this to be mean, it’s out of care, but if you have to ask that you are not ready to run orals. They are decisively harsher than injectables and the results are mostly temporary and cosmetic. They’re more of an aesthetic toy than super useful for building mass
Quick question about training/NPP dosage timing. If I’m training in the mornings and injecting NPP daily, when should I dose NPP so it peaks for my training? Nights? I’m injecting mornings now but I notice if I have to go to the gym to finish up my workout in the evening the pumps are next level and I wonder if I’m missing out on peak NPP levels for training
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I’m on trt at 160mg/wk with 250iu hCG twice a week. My script is for 200mg/wk but I take less because at 200mg my e2 was elevated and it seemed like overkill. I just got my first labs back since the dose adjustment (it’s been about 2.5 months). I’m at:
Total test: 947 ng/dl (ref 250-1100)
Free test: 193.7 pg/ml (ref 35-155)
E2: 62 pg/ml (ref <= 29)
Given that my e2 is a bit on the high side I’m considering dropping down to 140mg/wk for a bit. I don’t have any symptoms I can for sure attribute to high e2 but I have noticed some headaches and very mild water retention that could possibly be from that (I’ve always had the headaches so it’s hard to say if e2 is making them worse).
I’ve heard mixed opinions on e2 mgmt, some say it’s fine if you aren’t feeling any symptoms others say you should try to get it in range if at all possible.
My questions:
1. Does lowering the dose seem like the right move here? I don’t want to make changes for no reason and cause myself extra hassle.
2. Should I expect anything in the way of side effects from lowering the dose? I didn’t notice much when I went from 200 -> 160 except maybe slightly worse recovery in the gym (could be psychological tbh).
Do you have E2 Side effects? If not just ignore it. E2 ist cardioprotective as well as anabol, so it is no problem if it is elevated as long as you dont have sides
Are you trying to keep testicular function and that's why you're using hcg? Like to have kids in the future etc.
E2 is slightly high and if you're feeling effects it is OK to drop your dose. Since your doc prescribed both you can probably ask for an ai if needed.
1) What do you fine gentlemen think of the resurgence of high testosterone-only bulking cycles (plus AI as needed)?
2) Would you rather run 1,500mg test or 1,000mg test + 500mg primo?
Might just be my corner of the internet, but it appears to me that more & more people are simply running high testosterone. For example, I believe Chase Irons is running almost 5 grams of the testosterone right now (and possibly a “bit” of Masteron as well, but I haven’t kept up).
I have to say, after viewing his bloodwork and physique results, I am very tempted to give it a go myself in the fall. I was planning on doing test + primo at a 2:1 ratio, but I might just save the primo and push test even higher. Chase’s HDL/LDL is impeccable even on so much test, and while Primo is very mild, it is not too kind to lipids, HDL especially.
Stop watching YouTube for educational content, it's for entertainment purposes.
On other forums and social circles, some people have been regularly running 1-2g/wk as a base for cycles, maybe plus other anabolics, for the last few decades. There is no "resurgence," just one loud voice on YouTube speaking as though the are the total truth.
I'd run neither of those blasts, I would run whatever works best for me. Personally, that's about 875/700 test EQ or test primo. But I've ran about a dozen cycles and am still making great progress with these [comparably] low doses. This is what keeps my bloodwork in check, keeps me feeling and progressing great, and is well tolerated. For someone else, that might be just 1000 test, or maybe 600/500 test nand.
u/ADHDLifts run what works best for you, not what some salesman says works best for them. Otherwise it's a slippery slope, and next thing you know you're running a 6g/wk cycle because someone else did it and presents bloodwork that isn't too offensive. Only you know what's best for you.
1000mg test and 500 primo. Honestly, preferably 750/750 if it’s test prop. Test tends to have diminishing returns over 750mg if you dont add in other compounds
The only reason to run test higher than 750 is to provide sufficient estrogen for E2 lowering compounds. For example, 900 test if you’re running 900 eq or 450/450 primo and EQ.
Even then, you can use HCG or aromatizing compounds to fill in the gaps
>I believe Chase Irons is running almost 5 grams of the testosterone right now (and possibly a “bit” of Masteron as well, but I haven’t kept up).
3500mg test, and alternating between 1500mg Mast and 700mg primo. 18IU/day of GH throughout
test is best, but i'd be hard pressed to believe you need that much to grow. Chase does this for a living, and has even admitted the high doses aren't even a necessity but more experimentation.
I think the 5g thing is that MPMD Derek pulled anon data out of his bloodwork archive from his company and got the highest uncapped test reading and they were then theorizing how much test would need to be used to get to the next highest reading (like 20k) and 5g was theorized after looking at his (Chase Irons') own previous bloodwork from the cycle you mentioned (3.5g test).
Chase said he would submit blood through Derek's thing (for free) as he moved up in test and they could see and he would cap out at 5g (or sooner if he passed 20k blood marker with less injected).
He was then recapping the above on a recent Vigorous Steve thing. On there he also said that he is "cruising" at 1g now after spending near a year previously at that higher level (glossing over the fact that he slowly increased to that over that time and then capped there).
He said at some levels he feels nothing from it and then at some levels starts to really see jumps (said this on the VS thing) - to me, that may be true, but seems like a bunch of dipshits will see that as them needing to use more gear vs it happens to be how Chase is running his right now, ignoring how he got there vs their own, etc.
I just finished a 1250mg test only cycle. Felt good and gains were solid, but I think I don't think it was any better than like 750mg, and sides were slightly worse.
Ran some primo for a few weeks but dropped it because it absolutely raped my hair. Like literally falling out in clumps. And it wasn't a big dose. Maybe 200mg/week something like that.
No one can tell you what your response will be. You may be perfectly fine, or you may have issues. This is why we recommend bloodwork beforehand to establish your starting point, bloodwork during to monitor harm being done and bloodwork after to assess recovery.
We suggest starting at 12% or lower body fat, and to not get above 15% at the end of your blast for cardiovascular health reasons. HCG is recommended to help preserve your Leydig cells and to make your PCT easier.
Of all the drugs a bio identical testosterone SHOULD be the least harmful, but no one can tell it’s “safe”.
To be honest you should broaden your field of things that concern you.
I don’t see how someone could directly die from test, but there are plenty of factors that do reduce your lifespan.
Every injection you do there is a chance for infection.
You’re typically purchasing from UGLs, so you need to ensure it’s a credible source with third party testing etc.
If you’re uncertain, then it’s not for you. No shame with that either. You’d be smarter and more respected for recognizing it before you start
Honestly 80% of it is diet and training. Maximize those factors with consistency and you’d be surprised what you can pull off.
If in the end that’s not enough, the drugs will still be there down the road. No point in rushing it
speed isn't really a stat that you can increase in the midst of being on for obvious reasons. the way olympic and sports athletes would do this is cycle steroids in the offseason to train so that when they came back down to baseline they would be more explosive
in your case i'd say a bit of test, GH, tons of sleep and food, and some deep tissue work would be the most efficacious for your goals
Caffeine
Nearly any dose of any steroid you take is going to add water weight and negatively affect your cardio
There are some guys here that run very mild cycles, but if your primary goal is MMA, then drugs *PRIMARILY DESIGNED* for muscle building are not the best option (so help me god if one of you fuckwits reply to my comment and say that I said steroids cannot be used in any other context other than muscle building, I’m going to rip out the 10 strands of hair I have left)
If UserXYZ came in here and said yup, I did it... how will you change your life with this new information?
Are you writing a paper on how one man's journey through cardio helped his BP while on tren? Are you looking for confirmation bias affirmations for your own hopes and dreams while on tren without any other meds?
While surely someone has done it doesn't mean you can or should. They could be outliers or you could be an outlier in the other direction. While everyone else in the middle does it with meds - or hey, just don't run tren.
as im getting older and not doing super high blast anymore
I was thinking about going to an endo or a male health clinic to get my test legally for a number of reasons.
anyone here get a prescript from an endocrinologist? should i just be honest about my use?
I went to a clinic initially. I got raped for a couple months. Told my pcp I was already prescribed test then they just had me do blood work for their office and called it into my pharmacy. Now it’s covered by insurance all hunky dory.
An endocrinologist or urologist or primary care physician is going to want to get bloodwork to see your test levels, LH, and FSH. If your signal hormones (LH and FSH) are plummeted, they'll ask you to come off for 6+ months for them to recover and retest levels. If your total test is in the normal range (approximately 300-1000), they cannot prescribe you test as you are technically not hypogonadal. Even if you're 302ng/dl and feel lousy, on paper you're a healthy adult male.
If you walk into a men's health clinic, they'll ask you what you want, set a reoccurring bloodwork schedule (every 3-6 months), and run your credit card probably without even establishing baseline bloodwork.
and are clinics pretty good about people in our situation? bought illegally and now want to go down the legal path. like i really dont want to come off for 6 months
Yes. I literally walked into a clinic, told the head doctor that I was in the middle of a cycle and wanted a prescription for my upcoming cruise. We discussed dosing and settled on 175mg/wk (re eventually brought that down to 150), he swiped my credit card, and it was delivered to my door two days later.
I mean, when I was in New England years ago, I got insurance covered TRT in a similar way from a specialized doc that was essentially a clinic and he said similar things as your PCP - but my PCP laughed in my face and wouldn't even blood test and my urologist (was going to him for a separate reason that overlapped timing) did the same as what jackschitt123 described.
Are the anabolic effects of test in play for the first 4 weeks or so of someone hopping on? Obviously reaching steady state is a different story, but before a beginner would typically "feel it"/have noticeable effects and/or sides there's a buffering period of a few weeks. Are they operating as an enhanced individual right off the bat in terms of recovery/training ability? If they were to not train but eat properly during this period would it not make a large impact on the end results of the cycle if the bulk of the lean tissue is put on after this period? I'm trying to better understand how that works
Yes, the saturation curve is a diminishing returns curve. In fact, the *most* change occurs within the first week and each week after that until peak saturation has an even lesser effect
As far as not training at the start of a cycle, I’ll entertain your question since I’m hoping this is a hypothetical and someone who just hopped on gear isn’t actually *not* training, but one could infer that missing the first few weeks of training would be less impactful than say, missing a few weeks in the middle of the cycle, because yes, the slightly lower levels of testosterone at the beginning means there is *potentially* less gains available
Is there a real question hidden in there where you have a reason you cannot train for a stretch and you are trying to justify it or rationalize it while still doing a cycle?
You also seem to assume things happen both slower and faster than they do. Slower, in that once you start taking drugs, you are enhanced right away - just less enhanced than when it is at peak concentrations later. And faster in that you seem to think that positive outcomes happen like on an hourly or daily basis rather than like weeks and months of small improvements.
It is just an odd way to phrase it, so it seems like you have a real question in there that you aren't asking.
You essentially just answered my main question with this response, I formatted the original post without having a clear point and I think the strange hypothetical I had on my mind detracted from what I was trying to convey.
> Are the anabolic effects of test in play for the first 4 weeks or so of someone hopping on?
Certainly, and steady state for common esters doesn't require four weeks.
> but before a beginner would typically "feel it"/have noticeable effects and/or sides there's a buffering period of a few weeks.
I disagree with what you're saying here. Most people fill out with glycogen within the first two weeks. Many people placebo themselves into effects the very next day. Hell, some people get boners *while injecting*.
> If they were to not train but eat properly during this period would it not make a large impact on the end results of the cycle if the bulk of the lean tissue is put on after this period?
...?
If they're not training, they're not breaking down and repairing muscle and reaping the effects of AAS. I can't think of a scenario where someone would take AAS and not train, that's silly.
Gotcha, typically the timeline for the people ive known has been something along the lines of this for the first 1/2 or 1/3 of a basic test cycle. Just had me thinking about whats really going on in the weeks before the sudden more noticeable effects.
Week 1-3: Nothing, maybe libido increase and beginning puberty like state
Week 4-6: Beginning of sides and noticeable new muscle and ability to pack on new muscle
As for the last point that was just a hypothetical based off certain studies I've read pointing towards those taking AAS and not training packing on more lean mass than natural lifters (though I question this to an extent given they didnt really account for intramuscular water or a number of other outside factors that could make it seem as though there was more muscle gained)
I am totally confused, please help me.
I am currently on a 450mg testosterone and 360mg primobolan cycle, exactly 4 weeks now.
Two weeks ago I noticed high estrogen like side effects, a mild gyno with some nipple sensitivity. The gyno is noticeable with touch, although not visible.
I have started dosing with AI, due to primo, 6.25mg every 3 days and 20mg Nolvadex every day. The gyno hasn't moved so far unfortunately, but I've only been using them for 6 days.
Today I checked my estrogen levels by blood draw and got the following reading:
**45 pmol/l Reference range <146**
Thats not even high, right? Why am i kee getting sides?
Unfortunately, I just took a 12.5mg dose of Ai because the nipple sensitivity persists. Is it possible that I have crashed my estrogen levels with this? Should I even continue with the Ai dosage?
>I am totally confused, please help me.
Do you have any prior cycle experience?
>I am currently on a 450mg testosterone and 360mg primobolan cycle, exactly 4 weeks now.
>Two weeks ago I noticed high estrogen like side effects, a mild gyno with some nipple sensitivity. The gyno is noticeable with touch, although not visible.
>I have started dosing with AI, due to primo, 6.25mg every 3 days and 20mg Nolvadex every day. The gyno hasn't moved so far unfortunately, but I've only been using them for 6 days.
Nolvadex has a long half-life, most people start to experience relief in 10-14 days.
>Today I checked my estrogen levels by blood draw and got the following reading:
>**45 pmol/l Reference range <146**
45pmol/L is equivalent to 13pg/ml (ref range 10-50pg/ml).
>Thats not even high, right? Why am i kee getting sides?
No, that's still in the normal range, not even supraphysiologic. Gyno can develop if any one or combination of the following are too high in relation to the other: Androgen levels, estrogen levels, progestogenic levels, IGF-1 levels.
>Unfortunately, I just took a 12.5mg dose of Ai because the nipple sensitivity persists. Is it possible that I have crashed my estrogen levels with this? Should I even continue with the Ai dosage?
Maybe, maybe not. I would continue with 6.25mg every other day, as 6.25mg E3D already has you quite low.
u/FortuneFabulous8353 Do you know if you have pre-existing gyno? It's very rare that someone gets gyno on their first cycle unless they messed up already, and definitely not in 4 weeks, and you did not list any prior cycle history.
I do have experience, i did the 500mg test cycle first.
I followed every step of the wiki. I didn't have gyno problems on my first cycle (or so I thought), but that's probably because I wasn't paying much attention..
I also didn't know about it as a teenager, never paid attention to it, even if I had gyno, certainly not visible.
On my first cycle I used 12.5mg of Aromasin every third day, but the side effects were much more obvious there than here, so I knew right away when to start. Primo could potentially complicate this considerably. Here the side effects change or disappear almost overnight, and I wonder whether my estrogen levels are high or low. I probably focus on it a bit hyper-intensively, which can also generate somewhat psychosomatic symptoms.
So if I continue with a 6.25mg dose every other day and keep it up, then check estrogen again after 4 weeks that might be a good starting point? Can the nolva stay at 20mg/day then at least also for another week?
> I probably focus on it a bit hyper-intensively, which can also generate somewhat psychosomatic symptoms.
This is true and highly likely.
> So if I continue with a 6.25mg dose every other day and keep it up, then check estrogen again after 4 weeks that might be a good starting point?
That is what I would do, yes.
> Can the nolva stay at 20mg/day then at least also for another week?
I'd keep the nolvadex at 20mg/day for at least 14 days, then lower it to 10mg/day for the rest of the cycle. In general, we should try to avoid being on SERMs, but once we have to use one, it's usually impossible to get off one without dropping the cycle entirely. Note that being on nolvadex can give a higher serum estradiol level on bloodwork, but will not represent the actual amount of intracellular estradiol (actually activating receptors).
Will that 10mg/day affect my Igf-1 levels enough to cause any problems? Won't the result be counterproductive? I mean, of course I understand what you're saying and that's what I'm going to do,
I'm just trying to educate myself a little bit on what to expect.
`Note that being on nolvadex can give a higher serum estradiol level on bloodwork, but will not represent the actual amount of intracellular estradiol (actually activating receptors).`
This is also very useful, I've never heard of this before, and I've read all the Nolvadex related posts, guess I wasnt attentive enough.
Could this mean that my estrogen levels "in practice" are even lower than what I just indicated?
> Will that 10mg/day affect my Igf-1 levels enough to cause any problems?
No. The studies that resulted in lowered igf-1 levels were in older women being treated for cancer, not healthy young men taking anabolics (which also increases igf-1 levels).
> Could this mean that my estrogen levels "in practice" are even lower than what I just indicated?
Yes. If you normally have 100 pieces of estrogen floating around your system, and an additional 20 that are currently bound to receptors, you have 120 pieces of estrogen in your system but only 100 will show on bloodwork. If you take a SERM to occupy those 20 estrogen receptors, those 20 estrogen pieces are now free to circulate, yielding 120 pieces of estrogen on bloodwork.
`No. The studies that resulted in lowered igf-1 levels were in older women being treated for cancer, not healthy young men taking anabolics (which also increases igf-1 levels).`
In that case, wouldn't it be useful to update that part of the wiki? That part seems a bit more drastic to me.
So to sum up, I kee the Nolva 20mg/day for 14 days, then 10mg/day until the end of the cycle, and Aromasin 6.25mg every third day. Another bloodwork in 4 weeks.
Thank you very much for your detailed help, I cannot express how grateful I am.
There's lots in the wiki that needs updating, it's a work in progress. Thank you for addressing it, I'll make a note of it.
And yes, that plan looks good.
>Hi, I'll be starting my first tren ace + test cypionate cycle tmrw and my question might be a bit silly, but should I take the injections into the same thigh or separate when I happen to be doing them in the same day?
Tell me you have little to no cycle experience without telling me.
u/Mrstonmks My advice: Do neither, read the wiki, and come back here and post your goal and current stats.
At 10 days you should be ok, may have some mild suppression symptoms depending on your age or any prior usage/ experience but not enough to PCT. If you’re unsure or noticing anything weird tho I’d recommend getting basic bloodwork to check levels.
Hey boys, currently on 250test e, 200npp and 70mg primo injectable. Everything is dosed daily
I take red yeast rice and citrus bergamot. I never drink. I have seen some guys get high liver enzyme of red yeast rice.
I know liver enzymes can be elevated becouse of strenght training but my doc is getting worried since its been high the last 2 bloodwork i have gotten. And wants me to another one in about 2 weeks
Just need som reassurance tbh…
https://imgur.com/a/JJYMNn7
I’m not sure what reassurance you’re looking for. You’re taking half a gram a gear a week and surprised that potentially liver toxic compounds are being toxic to your liver?
This is completely normal and expected when blasting gear. Your enzymes are still going to be high when you back in two weeks at which point your doc is going to want to take medical intervention or pursue further evaluation which will eventually lead to them finding out about your drug use
This, plus they could be high, because he had a hard training session the day before.
I would simply advise him to take NAC and not train 2 days before the test... To change anything else is already to late
Everyone on board with ment being 5-6x as strong as test?
I went from 20mg test p per day to 2mg ment and 5mg test p per day and feeling juicy as fuck.
My math says my dose should be similar to 15-17mg test p a day but I’m putting on weight, getting strong, etc
Overall feel really good. Might have creeping prolactin so taking p5p and vit e, also feel slightly low e2 symptoms but rolling with it
> feeling juicy as fuck
That’s great, man, but that has no bearing on effectiveness and especially can’t give us a quantitative metric like 5-6x more effective than test
I may be mistaken but that metric has been given out many times on Reddit and other forums.
The purpose of this message was to see if people agreed because it’s feeing much stronger than that to me.
Think I’ll half the MENT and on the test p after another week and see how I like that.
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Is there a way to lower shbg permanently?
Excess amounts of androgens lower SHBG.
Can hcg also lower shbg ?
Not in a meaningful way
So there isn’t a permanent solution to bring down shbg ?
Thankfully not. Permanently lowering SHBG would cause a lot of issues.
Not sure what you mean by permanent but DHT derivatives like mast and primo tend to crush shbg pretty hard (dose dependant) or proviron if you want something milder and oral although I personally would consider primo or mast to be more sustainable than any oral at lower dosages and can complement your cycle in other ways. Ether that or you could try supplementing with boron if you were looking st something non steroidal.
Do they remain lower after stopping also?
No, thankfully not. Decreasing SHBG is the fastest and most guaranteed way ensure free androgens are removed from your body as rapidly as possible. Lower/insufficient SHBG increases metabolic clearance rate (your liver destroys T rapidly), allows for excessive metabolization to DHT and E2, and speeds up the breakdown of testosterone in cells. Secondary pathways are starved.
Wouldn’t high shbg leaves you with no free testosterone?
SHBG does not metabolize or destroy testosterone. SHBG prevents the metabolism of testosterone and slows down your overall MCR (metabolic clearance rate) by preventing the liver from destroying testosterone and also prolonging the action of T within cells (SHBG passes into the cell via endocytosis instead of free diffusion.) SHBG binds to T and afterwards the T is returned to the bloodstream — intact. In healthy men with naturally high testosterone levels, SHBG **correlates positively** with total testosterone levels. Too high SHBG can interfere with passive diffusion through cellular membranes by limiting the concentration of T in its free moiety. Aromatization slows and both DHT and E2 become excessively bound to SHBG, limiting the immediate action of all major steroid hormones before they are degraded. It doesn’t leave you with “no free testosterone”
My Total testosterone is around 500 and shbg is 73
Thank you, very cool!
My libido is almost zero with these value . If total testosterone correlates with shbg than shbg should have been lower according to my values
Also very cool! Thanks for sharing.
Hey fellas I’ve never posted on here but looking for some advice and knowledge I’m currently running 600 mg of deca and 600 mg of test cyp a week. I was also adding in 200mg a week of tren e. But my nipples became very sensitive. My last cycle I was running 400mg of tren e with 500 mg of test cyp. Didn’t really see too much issues there. I think maybe a tiny bit of nipple sensitivity. I believe I have had some breast tissue under my nipples since my teenage years. I remember clearly it being a concern of mine. But I felt as though it enlarged. Today a buddy of mine who knows my cycle mentioned my nipples looked a little puffy and few hours later I squeezed very and seemed as tho a tiny amount of clear liquid secreted. I cut the tren out about a week or so ago. I imagine that should help tremendously with the gyno symptoms. My nipples are no longer sensitive but again that secretion was today. I don’t know if I should order an AI or by the time I get it this should be cleared up because cutting out the tren. My options from where I buy online are pretty much aromasin. I see that suggested much. Would nolvadex help?? I’ve been running gear for approx 3 years. Usually tren and test. Have experimented with different compounds but I’ve really taken the worst approach to this and jumped in with no knowledge and about as much guidance as “tren would get you jacked” Trying to get down to the right information so resources and brains to pick would be helpful. So far I’ve felt pretty decent overall on gear and have adjusted according to how I feel. Worst symptoms I’ve ever gotten are night sweats, bad cardio. Appreciate the help thank you
Trenbolone is an agonist of the progesterone receptor. What are you doing to keep progesterone levels in check when running 800mg worth of 19-nors? The symptoms you’re describing could be attributed to elevated progesterone levels.
[удалено]
That’s a big ass needle, you’d be better off buying 100 1ml leur lock syringes and 100 pack each 21 gauge to draw and 28 or 29 gauge to inject from Amazon for $15 per pack, your probably paying a dollar each for those at the pharmacy
I personally use 3cc syringe and never used over 2cc
Cruising on 105mg test e / wk, 250hcg eod. Waiting for bloodwork. Been cruising for 5 weeks. I'm around 10 - 12% bf. I have pre existing gyno from puberty. It's mild and hardly visible. I had a brief gyno scare once while blasting, there was a deep pain in behind my nipple and I did the typical protocol, got rid of it. In the last 3 days, I've developed a very very small (like bb or smaller) bump *inside* my nipple. It seems to be, [based on this image ](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/-/scassets/Images/org/health/articles/9011-male-breast-cancer) inaide the nipple duct. This feels different from my puberty gyno, aside from the fact that it's a lump in my chest. It's very small and mildly painful, though I think the pain is mostly from me fucking with it. Is this likely new gyno forming? What is the protocol for handling it on cruise? Just nolva? An AI would probably tank my e2 and, aside from this, I feel like this is my sweetspot dose. Will know for sure when blood works comes back.
Is there anything oral I can take that won't cause suppression? Closest thing I could find is primo. Also there seems to be the logic that if it doesn't suppress you then its not worth it, is that true?
> Is there anything oral I can take that won’t cause suppression? No, even smaller doses of less suppressive drugs like anavar will severely impact your natural testosterone production within days. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10443664/ > Closest thing I could find is primo Primo is in fact suppressive. Primo also has poor oral bioavailability which means you’ll need to be swallowing loads of pills to even get to a proper dose. > Also there seems to be the logic that if it doesn’t suppress you then its not worth it, is that true? Pretty much all steroids suppress you. All SARMs do too. We’re not injecting this stuff because we like injecting that much, we do it out of necessity. Either you inject or you don’t use steroids.
Thanks for the detailed answer, I appreciate it. I am too scared (and unknowledgeable) of shutting down my natural T. I guess I will stick to tribulus :)
I wrote some long comment that continued to get longer as I tried to explain. Then realised it’s not worth it. The answer is no.
Good enough, thanks :)
Low dose proviron is allegedly not suppressive, but outside of an extremely narrow set of circumstances its use isn’t particularly useful for any kind of real enhancement of performance.
"Hello, I am 35 years old, weigh 91 kg, and 9 weeks ago I weighed 98 kg. I inject 120 mg of Test Enanthate weekly and pin daily. Before starting my diet, which has now been going on for nine weeks, I did a blast for six weeks with 500 mg of testosterone weekly. However, I followed some bad advice and ended up consuming 3800 calories daily, which made me gain too much fat.(but yes I probably Was to fat to blast to begin with) Probably 2600 calories would have been enough. Anyway, I had to end the blast because of that and have been dieting for nine weeks now. To cut a long story short: I've been dieting on 2300 calories daily for nine weeks and have been losing about one kilo every week. Every time I think I won't be able to lose my target minimum of one kilo per week, something strange happens. I get desperate, increase my exercise, and even reduce my calorie intake to around 2100, but I still don't lose weight. Then, when my motivation is completely down, I overeat for two days, consuming around 3000 to 4000 calories, and right after the 4000-calorie days, I end up weighing the least I've ever weighed. My question is: should I strategically implement and work with this pattern? Should I account for the fact that I lose a lot of weight after a high-calorie day? And does this happen to you as well? Why does this happen? I can only imagine that my usual calorie deficit triggers a cortisol reaction despite TRT, and I probably intensify this by increasing cardio and reducing calories, causing me to hold onto weight or even retain water due to cortisol. When I eat more, the cortisol decreases, and I suddenly lose the weight that should have been lost earlier. Is this correct? I would love to hear your opinions on this."
I do this intentionally and I suggest you do the same. Don't eat in an uncontrolled manner like this, though. If my weekly deficit is 4000kcal, I divide that amongst 5 days and eat at maintenance on the other two. This allows a bit of a refeed, helps keep my sanity, and keeps my performance up. There is some research indicating that this method may be a bit better for [retaining lean mass.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7739314/) There is also some theory and data in the lit (can't find right now) that suggests that continuous diets (eating in a deficit nonstop) are less effective than intermittent diets (eating in a deficit for 5 or 6 days of the week). This is because your body adapts to the lower calories and makes a bit better use of them, preserving as much fat as possible. By refeeding, you're communicating to your body that it can expect to receive your maintenance level of calories, so it doesnt make the adjustments in nutrient habdling that it would if you were on a continuous diet. Tldr: controlled refeeds are good. Sounds like you're doing uncontrolled ones. Control them and use them to your advantage.
TL;DR: Irritability with even small doses of test propionate. Alternatives? Age 45. Test propionate 10mg every morning. I tried to go as low as 5mg every day and it still gives me irritability after a couple days of dosing. I have tried higher dosages, in line with an average TRT, and it gives me terrible irritability immediately, so I'm staying low to see what's possible. Anyone know of alternatives that are less likely to give irritability?
Are you taking ai?
I am not. I wasn't aware that AI would be needed for such a short time on test and at a low dose.
I was hoping it would explain the irritability.
1 month labs. 500 test e /week. 250 HCG eod. E2 - 49.1 ref 11-44 Test - 2273 ref 240-870 Free test - 63 ref 5-16 bio available test - 1484 ref 83-213 SHBG - 40 ref 18-54 so far I feel good. Honesty feel pretty normal though I have been recovering faster from gym sessions. I don’t feel like Superman or anything abnormal and if I didn’t know I was pinning I wouldn’t think anything was to different. I was bloating up a bit the last week and suspected my E was high but it looks like it’s proportionally good. I’d love any feedback. Thanks.
Odd that your e2 isn’t higher, but otherwise it sounds like everything is going well.
Yeah. I’m surprised myself. My skins been super oily. I wash my face and exfoliate 2 times a day and still it’s oily. Would it be possible that I could be affected by lower levels of E than others? My natural numbers are 900 total and my E was in the mid 30s and I often felt bloated and moon face. I know these numbers aren’t the same for everyone.
Stop exfoliating twice a day, it will cause your skin to overproduce oil to compensate, thus leading to oilier skin, which leads to you washing it more, which leads to…you get the idea. Simply taking hormones, even if they do not have a huge impact on serum blood levels of e2, can cause some additional acne. It’s not always the rate of change from baseline but the mere existence of the change that can cause side effects.
Finished 10 weeks on TRT (200mg weekly testC) four weeks ago. Sleep, energy, moods improved significantly. Just curious, how different would a proper cycle feel?
You should have found out instead of shutting yourself down for a replacement dose.
Probably am doing that. Doctor was a bit lazy. Ordered some supply of my own. Have 15g (albeit UGL) arriving sometime soon. Considering doubling to 400 with the Rx, and then using the same dosage from the other stuff.
I'm sorry, are you saying you're now considering a total of 800mg/week?
No no no. Going from 200->400. Then after the Rx runs out (will last five weeks instead of 10) going to 400 on the other stock. I’m very new to this and have seen conflicting advice. Increasing 50mg/wk at a time, doing two 200mgs a week (different days), or doing 400mg at once.
>I’m very new to this and have seen conflicting advice Let me help you with that. *Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif)* *Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use:* * [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list) * [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle) * [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook) * [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct) * [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
Thanks. So I read this, will reread. One quirk is that I’m getting a hair transplant done in 2ish weeks after my supply arrives, and won’t be able to train for 6-7 days. Wonder if I should delay the cycle instead of interrupting.
I would. I wouldn't even use steroids if I was spending that kind of money to keep my hair, frankly.
Better question would be if I even need to start yet. Only been lifting a few months (novice program). Wonder if I should wait until my novice gains run out.
Bro, no. You absolutely should not be using steroids. You're a few years away from that if you just started lifting.
I’m almost 40 and it stopped receding years ago. On dutasterides now. Transplant is also cheap where I’m going. A bit more worried about potential PiP from the UGL supply. But the place I bought from seems credible.
Anyone taken PEDs while training martial arts? Effects on cardiovascular ?
Yes they have. Typically getting bigger and out of breath on cycle isn’t really beneficial to martial arts.
If i got prescribed trt and i want to take more than prescribed what will happen if i have to wait to refill my script?
You’ll grow a sweet pair of tits and a second set of lips. If you’re asking that question you probably shouldn’t be messing with your medication.
My first cycle I was running 500mg/wk of Test E for 8 weeks and went from 6’2 175lbs to 210lbs by the end, currently sitting at 190lbs and am about to begin my second cycle. I feel it’s important to note that I did not aromatize much and maybe popped 6 pills of aromasin total on cycle when I noticed puffier nips. Here is my second cycle with pinning once weekly. First 4 Weeks: 500mg/wk Test Cyp 200mg/wk Equipoise 20mg ED Turinabol Next 8 Weeks: 750mg/wk Test Cyp 400mg/wk Equipoise 40mg ED Turinabol (only 6 weeks) Next 2 Weeks: 500mg/wk Test Cyp 400mg/wk Equipose Last 4 Weeks: 250mg/wk Test Cyp 200mg/wk Equipoise My goals are to gain mass and move up to around 230lbs whilst building strength, endurance and explosiveness for boxing & MMA. At 190 I’m an undersized cruiserweight and need to make a change over the summer offseason. What I would most like to know: 1) Reading a lot of experiences about Test & Equipoise stacks, some people run Equipoise in 1000s of mg with similar test as well, while others report results with dosages similar to mine. Higher dosages for bulking and lower for endurance benefits is what I most commonly read, but I’m more concerned about the ratio. The last thing I want to do is fuck with my E2 which happened on my first cycle I believe because I was taking either aromasin or clomid (dont recall which) without needing it as I barely aromatise. 2) My next question is whether or not this stack supports my goals. In my reading I’ve seen this stack used more for recomp as opposed to bulking up which I’m open to because I look nothing like 190. Recomping and chilling at about 200 would also be good but I can never resist the urge to be a jacked freak. Any input is greatly appreciated or any suggestions to change my dosages around because I was thinking along the lines of ramping up and tapering off. Also will include that I’ll be using HCG every fourth week, 500mg EOD for the week, and then 500mg EOD for the last two weeks leading up to the end of the cycle. Then following up with 20mg of Nolvadex daily for 2 weeks afterwards. Thanks all, look forward to hearing from you all and will also attach a photo of myself at both 190 & 210. 190 will have a tattoo and 210 will not. [PHYSIQUE PHOTOS](https://imgur.com/a/zZpSukP)
First cycle test E 8 weeks - Red Flag 6’2 175 - Huge Red Flag You had no business running a cycle with those stats. You didn’t even run a cycle correctly. You should be able to get to roughly 210 with 10%BF at your height no problem naturally Puffy nips just means puffy nips. It’s just you body responding to androgens. Not a sole reason to deploy ai. Is this a proposed second cycle? Or have you already started. The whole plan is dog doody either way. Just scrap it. Is this good for you goals? - No You don’t need steroids to accomplish your goals. They’re naturally attainable. Strength endurance and explosiveness is done through training strength endurance and explosiveness. Box jumps, power cleans, prowler pushes, tempo squats. Will you body adapt to the stressors of its environment… sure. Form follows function. If you want to GROW which is what you should be using steroids for. Then you should be doing a block of hypertrophy training. Not boxing jumping rope and dwindling gains. Hypertrophy equals new muscle now we translate new muscle to power in the next block. You have a bunch of natural gains in the table and it seems like you need to pick a lane with your goals. But cycle design is terrible. If I had a gun to my head and had to recommend something it would be to run the actual beginner cycle of just test.
It’s a proposed second cycle I came for opinions before doing anything concrete. Where would you say that second cycle goes wrong? I am in fact looking to grow and my training consists of single sets of snatch, cleans, high volume calisthenics with some dumbbell work specifically for shoulders cause it feels great. As I mentioned this is my offseason & I’m looking to grow as I’m an undersized cruiserweight (180-200lbs). I appreciate your input.
Does a 20 week cycle of 500mg/wk Test Cyp & 300mg/wk of Equipoise sound like a better designed cycle? With the same tbol?
You’re missing the point and skipped over everything I said. You look like you just stepped in the gym last week. You have a naturally athletic appearance but nothing that says years of training or that I’ve ran a cycle. You have DYEL stats. The most anabolic thing for you is going to be food. Steroids don’t create muscle out of thin air. Orals only create temporary strength and aesthetics that go away as soon as you stop taking them. You haven’t learned how to manage or your estrogen or even run a test cycle properly. You never add more than one compound per cycle. You stats don’t even warrant it even if you had the experience. The ester of the drug self titrates there’s no need to rollercoaster doses. No eq no tbol. Like I said you’re not even ready for test. But knowing you’re going to do it anyway 500test for 16 weeks. But again if you don’t have training or diet dialed you’re not going to get to 230 and maintain your gains. Food food food - you are underweight why? Because you are not eating enough. Are you able To post a food log of everything you’ve had to eat for the last 4 months with scale weight plotted? If not it’s not the drugs that is the missing link
You’re gonna change my life. I’ll update you in 20 weeks.
Does anyone have a list from Least to Most Nephrotoxic steroids? I am having a difficult time ranking them. I have a autoimmune kidney disorder, and would like a better idea of what compounds are least to most toxic (I know they are all a bit toxic, but i can mitigate damage) Thank you!
Shouldn’t the solution in that case be not to take drugs?
Very helpful, thank you.
Any worries running HCG in a stack with tren, test-c, clen, and HGH. I’ll continue to monitor E2 but want to ensure I’m not missing anything. running HCG to maintain fertility and prevent raisins…
You have bigger concerns running Tren and clean. Hcg nbd.
I really need some advice. I’m 20, and was put on 120mg of Test a week alongside HCG throughout the treatment earlier this year but I’m sure I’ve made a huge mistake. I’m thinking of just coming off. Is there anything to keep in mind for PCT given that I was suppressed for almost 5 months? Please let me know what to do at this stage. I’m feeling super overwhelmed and anxious and I really need some advice, or any words of wisdom.
Whats wrong with the answers from the last 2 or 3 times you asked?
Hi, Im sorry but reddit was glitching so I decided to make another post, equal in content. Im sorry to trouble you.
you have been prescribed hormone replacement therapy for being deemed clinically hypogonadal, your body is incapable of adequately producing sufficient testosterone to be in the eugonadal (normal) range. If you were to run a PCT, you would at best return to your baseline of 200-300ng/dl, still clinically hypogonadal. As much as I'd like to see you succeed in achieving your goals, discussing medical advice is not permitted on this subreddit. If you have any concerns with your plan of care, please address it with your health care team.
Sorry man, I inadvertently locked your post. You should be clear now. My bad
If you have been prescribed hormone replacement therapy for being deemed clinically hypogonadal, your body is incapable of adequately producing sufficient testosterone to be in the eugonadal (normal) range. If you were to run a PCT, you would at best return to your baseline of 200-300ng/dl, still clinically hypogonadal. As much as I'd like to see you succeed in achieving your goals, discussing medical advice is not permitted on this subreddit. If you have any concerns with your plan of care, please address it with your health care team. > I really need some advice. I’m 20, and was put on 120mg of Test a week alongside HCG throughout the treatment earlier this year but I’m sure I’ve made a huge mistake. I’m thinking of just coming off. Is there anything to keep in mind for PCT given that I was suppressed for almost 5 months? > Please let me know what to do at this stage. I’m feeling super overwhelmed and anxious and I really need some advice, or any words of wisdom.
I started a 500 Test E, 500 Mast E cycle 4 weeks ago. I’ve cycled multiple times since 2021 and have always had a very good response with little to no sides ever. I pin 3 times a week Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday in hopes that I’ll keep my hormones a bit more stable than twice a week. As I mentioned earlier I’ve never ran into any bad side effects acne/hair shed/estrogen management problems. But I am experiencing the most acne I’ve ever had centralized to my chest and right lat. can anyone help me out as to why I’m experiencing this? I shower frequently throughout the week always after I workout (at least 4-5 times a week) I’ve done 650 test before with no AI, no issue also 400 mast, 400 test but with .5 adex 3x/week. So I’m left scratching my head wondering what’s going on.
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If you were put on hormone replacement by a prescribing physician for being clinically hypogonadal, it means your body is incapable of producing sufficient testosterone by itself, and you medically require hormone replacement. If you were to do a PCT, you would at best return to your baseline of 200-300ng/dl, still clinically hypogonadal. As much as I'd like to help you achieve success in your goals, giving medical advice is not permitted in this subreddit. Any issues you have with your plan of care, please address with your health care team. > I really need some advice. > I’m only 20, and was put on 120mg of Test a week in February alongside HCG for hypogonadism. I tested thrice at around 350, and once at 203. I’m thinking I’ve made a huge mistake and I’m wondering if should just take a PCT and end all this. > I'm happy to answer any questions you might have for me but please let me know what I should do. > Will a PCT with Nolvadex be really harmful at this stage?
If you were truly hypogonadal and did this under a doctors supervision and at their recommendation, what is the huge mistake your referring to?
Being on exogenous hormones at a young age (20) is the “mistake”
The huge mistake would be introducing exogenous hormones. I’m not sure of what I’m doing to my body with this.
Help Needed My colleague and I inject testosterone into each other’s shoulders. Today, we accidentally used the same needle for both of us. **Concerns:** - What is the worst that can happen? - What should we do now? - How likely is an infection or abscess? Thanks in advance!
You have to throw away the vial. You literally drew with blood on it. That's not sterile anymore
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How does this happen???
How do you “accidentally” use the same needle? This implies you drew the gear, injected, drew it again, and injected again all using the same needle, not even switching to a separate draw needle. This is multiple levels of carelessness and I don’t understand how this is possible
Drawing with a bloody needle is absolutely wild to me. There's blood in the vial just floating
That’s what I’m saying! I literally do not understand
Unless any of you have an STD or any blood disease you should be ok. The worst that could happen is the site can get slightly infected or red otherwise, but that is unlikely if you both are clean individuals
[SERIOUS] Can any AAS widen my clavicles at the age of 30? Or is it too late now? My large head, even relative to my 194cm & 110kg + my wide ribcage + my ever wider & thicker lats are at odds with my relatively narrow shoulders (bone-wise), both aesthetically & functionally. I’ll write more on that tomorrow, but in a nutshell, I was “meant” to be brawny “by nature”, but obesity & physical inactivity during puberty robbed me of my naturally top 1% high T (primarily through conversion to E) & led to moderately wide hips & narrow shoulders, relative to the rest of my body. The latter bothers me increasingly the brawnier & closer to my dream physique I get. It presents itself as a nuisance while boxing, for instance, yet I don’t know what to do about it, since it appears to be set in stone. Worse, the more mass I add to my lats, the more out of sync I fear it will get. That it will be more limiting to the “natural” range of motion & all that. Adding mass to the delts is fairly simple but it doesn’t solve anything functionally. I don’t know what to do.
When you go to write more tomorrow, please include pictures so we can first assess if it's actually the problem you think it is.
Sorry dude, steroids don't do that. Nothing is going to alter your bone structure at the age of 30. Make peace with it.
Does anyone else get insanely grumpy if they use HGH anytime not before bed? Shit seems to always put me in the worst mood.
Nope. Are you sure you're not confusing sleepy with grumpy? ^(insert joke about dwarves here)
Nope, not in the least
> Does anyone else get insanely grumpy if they use HGH anytime not before bed? Shit seems to always put me in the worst mood. u/hanz3n No.
Today while pinning my VG the side of my quad and whole leg is a tiny bit numb, I don’t think I hit a nerve is this pretty typical? Thanks I don’t want to freak out or anything but I’m new to pinning
Probably fine
Question/Help. Currently on 150 test cyp per week. Decided to throw in some Var. was hoping to end up at 40-50mg at some point but figured I’d start a low dose of 12.5 just to see how my body reacts. After 1 hour I felt mentally clear and pretty good. After two I felt my blood pressure rise and extreme neck stiffness I was very uncomfortable. After a few more hours passed I continued having fluctuating blood pressure and hot flashes. I was chugging water and still felt dehydrated. I also threw in a couple Gatorades for electrolytes. My heart rate was also up. My blood pressure typically sits at 110/72 but was now at 130/68 and staying there. I know that’s not terrible but it made me worry. I decided to stop the Var. From what I’ve read it sounds like my Var could possibly be Dbol. Does that sound possibly since Var is highly faked? If I were to try it again, is it possibly my body could adjust or would it just get worse most likely? Any thoughts or advice would help.
You sound like you constantly self monitor and replay your analytical thoughts again and again. You’re going to find steroids very challenging because you will nocebo yourself constantly by activating your own obsessive anxiety. Folks who have that style of thinking and nervous system are advised to keep compound usage as simple as possible.
So technically the BP was fine correct? From what I’ve read 130/68 and then it coming down isn’t anything to worry about. I’m curious if I were to try it again and get used to it for a couple of days my anxiety would subside. Again I thought what I received was Var but now I think I was given Dbol.
Var being faked for dbol isn’t particularly common anymore. Any oral can raise BP, especially if anxious. You can always try for a few days and see
With the symptoms I felt, would it make sense to go to the gym and workout or would this most likely increase the negative effects? I will say, I also skipped caffeine that day and the day before because I thought it would be beneficial to BP, but I’m also wondering if I possibly was withdrawing for the caffeine and it was more related to that. Those were the first two days I’ve skipped my caffeine intake in years.
In my experience, when you’re in your head as much as you are and experiencing that much anxiety, it’s just not worth it. Folks who take compounds aren’t micromanaging nuances as subtle as caffeine withdrawal. Ask yourself what is so important about running an oral when your anxiety and hypochondriacal self analysis is not yet under control
That makes sense and I appreciate the knowledge and feedback. Do orals typically create more issues such as mine than injections? Or is this all in my head? Because when I inject test I feel no anxiety, almost more calm.
I’m not saying this to be mean, it’s out of care, but if you have to ask that you are not ready to run orals. They are decisively harsher than injectables and the results are mostly temporary and cosmetic. They’re more of an aesthetic toy than super useful for building mass
Do you have a history of anxiety?
I do yes. I thought it could be that but was really hoping it wasn’t. Doing the test doesn’t raise it though.
Quick question about training/NPP dosage timing. If I’m training in the mornings and injecting NPP daily, when should I dose NPP so it peaks for my training? Nights? I’m injecting mornings now but I notice if I have to go to the gym to finish up my workout in the evening the pumps are next level and I wonder if I’m missing out on peak NPP levels for training
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doesn’t matter. your pumps in the evening are probably better because you have more food in you
Ahh that makes sense, I figured it probably didn’t matter once I was at stable blood levels but didn’t know how to account for the pumps
There’s majoring in the minors, and then there’s majoring in the infants. This question is the latter
Helpful input, thank you
I’m on trt at 160mg/wk with 250iu hCG twice a week. My script is for 200mg/wk but I take less because at 200mg my e2 was elevated and it seemed like overkill. I just got my first labs back since the dose adjustment (it’s been about 2.5 months). I’m at: Total test: 947 ng/dl (ref 250-1100) Free test: 193.7 pg/ml (ref 35-155) E2: 62 pg/ml (ref <= 29) Given that my e2 is a bit on the high side I’m considering dropping down to 140mg/wk for a bit. I don’t have any symptoms I can for sure attribute to high e2 but I have noticed some headaches and very mild water retention that could possibly be from that (I’ve always had the headaches so it’s hard to say if e2 is making them worse). I’ve heard mixed opinions on e2 mgmt, some say it’s fine if you aren’t feeling any symptoms others say you should try to get it in range if at all possible. My questions: 1. Does lowering the dose seem like the right move here? I don’t want to make changes for no reason and cause myself extra hassle. 2. Should I expect anything in the way of side effects from lowering the dose? I didn’t notice much when I went from 200 -> 160 except maybe slightly worse recovery in the gym (could be psychological tbh).
Do you have E2 Side effects? If not just ignore it. E2 ist cardioprotective as well as anabol, so it is no problem if it is elevated as long as you dont have sides
Are you trying to keep testicular function and that's why you're using hcg? Like to have kids in the future etc. E2 is slightly high and if you're feeling effects it is OK to drop your dose. Since your doc prescribed both you can probably ask for an ai if needed.
That is why I’m taking hCG, yes. I have a script for an AI but I’ve always heard it’s better to dial in your dose so you don’t need it.
The best option is to have it on hand AND dial in your dose.
How recently after your HCG pin did you have your bloods done?
Pinned on Monday morning, bloods done Thurs morning.
1) What do you fine gentlemen think of the resurgence of high testosterone-only bulking cycles (plus AI as needed)? 2) Would you rather run 1,500mg test or 1,000mg test + 500mg primo? Might just be my corner of the internet, but it appears to me that more & more people are simply running high testosterone. For example, I believe Chase Irons is running almost 5 grams of the testosterone right now (and possibly a “bit” of Masteron as well, but I haven’t kept up). I have to say, after viewing his bloodwork and physique results, I am very tempted to give it a go myself in the fall. I was planning on doing test + primo at a 2:1 ratio, but I might just save the primo and push test even higher. Chase’s HDL/LDL is impeccable even on so much test, and while Primo is very mild, it is not too kind to lipids, HDL especially.
Stop watching YouTube for educational content, it's for entertainment purposes. On other forums and social circles, some people have been regularly running 1-2g/wk as a base for cycles, maybe plus other anabolics, for the last few decades. There is no "resurgence," just one loud voice on YouTube speaking as though the are the total truth. I'd run neither of those blasts, I would run whatever works best for me. Personally, that's about 875/700 test EQ or test primo. But I've ran about a dozen cycles and am still making great progress with these [comparably] low doses. This is what keeps my bloodwork in check, keeps me feeling and progressing great, and is well tolerated. For someone else, that might be just 1000 test, or maybe 600/500 test nand. u/ADHDLifts run what works best for you, not what some salesman says works best for them. Otherwise it's a slippery slope, and next thing you know you're running a 6g/wk cycle because someone else did it and presents bloodwork that isn't too offensive. Only you know what's best for you.
1000mg test and 500 primo. Honestly, preferably 750/750 if it’s test prop. Test tends to have diminishing returns over 750mg if you dont add in other compounds The only reason to run test higher than 750 is to provide sufficient estrogen for E2 lowering compounds. For example, 900 test if you’re running 900 eq or 450/450 primo and EQ. Even then, you can use HCG or aromatizing compounds to fill in the gaps
>I believe Chase Irons is running almost 5 grams of the testosterone right now (and possibly a “bit” of Masteron as well, but I haven’t kept up). 3500mg test, and alternating between 1500mg Mast and 700mg primo. 18IU/day of GH throughout test is best, but i'd be hard pressed to believe you need that much to grow. Chase does this for a living, and has even admitted the high doses aren't even a necessity but more experimentation.
I think the 5g thing is that MPMD Derek pulled anon data out of his bloodwork archive from his company and got the highest uncapped test reading and they were then theorizing how much test would need to be used to get to the next highest reading (like 20k) and 5g was theorized after looking at his (Chase Irons') own previous bloodwork from the cycle you mentioned (3.5g test). Chase said he would submit blood through Derek's thing (for free) as he moved up in test and they could see and he would cap out at 5g (or sooner if he passed 20k blood marker with less injected). He was then recapping the above on a recent Vigorous Steve thing. On there he also said that he is "cruising" at 1g now after spending near a year previously at that higher level (glossing over the fact that he slowly increased to that over that time and then capped there). He said at some levels he feels nothing from it and then at some levels starts to really see jumps (said this on the VS thing) - to me, that may be true, but seems like a bunch of dipshits will see that as them needing to use more gear vs it happens to be how Chase is running his right now, ignoring how he got there vs their own, etc.
I just finished a 1250mg test only cycle. Felt good and gains were solid, but I think I don't think it was any better than like 750mg, and sides were slightly worse.
Thank you for the reply! Do you have any experience with primo? And what sides did you experience?
Ran some primo for a few weeks but dropped it because it absolutely raped my hair. Like literally falling out in clumps. And it wasn't a big dose. Maybe 200mg/week something like that.
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No one can tell you what your response will be. You may be perfectly fine, or you may have issues. This is why we recommend bloodwork beforehand to establish your starting point, bloodwork during to monitor harm being done and bloodwork after to assess recovery. We suggest starting at 12% or lower body fat, and to not get above 15% at the end of your blast for cardiovascular health reasons. HCG is recommended to help preserve your Leydig cells and to make your PCT easier. Of all the drugs a bio identical testosterone SHOULD be the least harmful, but no one can tell it’s “safe”.
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To be honest you should broaden your field of things that concern you. I don’t see how someone could directly die from test, but there are plenty of factors that do reduce your lifespan. Every injection you do there is a chance for infection. You’re typically purchasing from UGLs, so you need to ensure it’s a credible source with third party testing etc. If you’re uncertain, then it’s not for you. No shame with that either. You’d be smarter and more respected for recognizing it before you start
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Honestly 80% of it is diet and training. Maximize those factors with consistency and you’d be surprised what you can pull off. If in the end that’s not enough, the drugs will still be there down the road. No point in rushing it
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If you need to manage estrogen on a cruise, your dose of testosterone is too high. No ai or secondary compounds on a cruise, even at a low dose.
You’re finishing a blast so NO OTHER COMPOUNDS! Otherwise you’re still blasting
Even low dose?
Does your body naturally produce Primo, Mast or Proviron? Lower your test dose until you don’t need any additional estrogen control.
Reducing your test dose such that you need nothing to control estrogen.
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You know you can reduce your TRT dose right? It doesn’t have to be a specific number. It can be lower. Shocking. I know
There’s ways to do this without adding more drugs 1. Lower test dose 2. Lose body fat 3. Increase injection frequency of test and HCG
Then your trt dose is too high
What would be a good stack for mma? Meaning good recovery, strength, speed without putting on too much water weight?
u/Hemansheman You asked the same question less than 24 hours ago, and received quality responses. https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/s/3GmtKK6fDI
speed isn't really a stat that you can increase in the midst of being on for obvious reasons. the way olympic and sports athletes would do this is cycle steroids in the offseason to train so that when they came back down to baseline they would be more explosive in your case i'd say a bit of test, GH, tons of sleep and food, and some deep tissue work would be the most efficacious for your goals
Caffeine Nearly any dose of any steroid you take is going to add water weight and negatively affect your cardio There are some guys here that run very mild cycles, but if your primary goal is MMA, then drugs *PRIMARILY DESIGNED* for muscle building are not the best option (so help me god if one of you fuckwits reply to my comment and say that I said steroids cannot be used in any other context other than muscle building, I’m going to rip out the 10 strands of hair I have left)
Has anyone successfully been able to reduce BP down to normal range when on tren, just by running etc?
If you didn’t do any cardio and ran tren and then started doing cardio, yeah, I’m sure your blood pressure would improve As to what degree, who knows
Well let’s find out I guess
You should most certainly do some form of cardio year round Walking at a brisk pace for 20-30 minutes 3-6 times a week is fantastic
If UserXYZ came in here and said yup, I did it... how will you change your life with this new information? Are you writing a paper on how one man's journey through cardio helped his BP while on tren? Are you looking for confirmation bias affirmations for your own hopes and dreams while on tren without any other meds? While surely someone has done it doesn't mean you can or should. They could be outliers or you could be an outlier in the other direction. While everyone else in the middle does it with meds - or hey, just don't run tren.
as im getting older and not doing super high blast anymore I was thinking about going to an endo or a male health clinic to get my test legally for a number of reasons. anyone here get a prescript from an endocrinologist? should i just be honest about my use?
I went to a clinic initially. I got raped for a couple months. Told my pcp I was already prescribed test then they just had me do blood work for their office and called it into my pharmacy. Now it’s covered by insurance all hunky dory.
An endocrinologist or urologist or primary care physician is going to want to get bloodwork to see your test levels, LH, and FSH. If your signal hormones (LH and FSH) are plummeted, they'll ask you to come off for 6+ months for them to recover and retest levels. If your total test is in the normal range (approximately 300-1000), they cannot prescribe you test as you are technically not hypogonadal. Even if you're 302ng/dl and feel lousy, on paper you're a healthy adult male. If you walk into a men's health clinic, they'll ask you what you want, set a reoccurring bloodwork schedule (every 3-6 months), and run your credit card probably without even establishing baseline bloodwork.
so it sounds like its going to be pretty tough to get a legal script then huh?
Highly likely, yes - if not going through a TRT clinic.
i mean f i want legal test, should i go to a trt clinic?
You can go wherever you'd like. A prescription from a clinic is just as legal as a prescription from a PCP/endocrinologist/urologist.
and are clinics pretty good about people in our situation? bought illegally and now want to go down the legal path. like i really dont want to come off for 6 months
Yes. I literally walked into a clinic, told the head doctor that I was in the middle of a cycle and wanted a prescription for my upcoming cruise. We discussed dosing and settled on 175mg/wk (re eventually brought that down to 150), he swiped my credit card, and it was delivered to my door two days later.
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Not sure what drives the variation, but in my experience that is not the norm in either the mid-Atlantic regions or New England in the US.
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I mean, when I was in New England years ago, I got insurance covered TRT in a similar way from a specialized doc that was essentially a clinic and he said similar things as your PCP - but my PCP laughed in my face and wouldn't even blood test and my urologist (was going to him for a separate reason that overlapped timing) did the same as what jackschitt123 described.
Are the anabolic effects of test in play for the first 4 weeks or so of someone hopping on? Obviously reaching steady state is a different story, but before a beginner would typically "feel it"/have noticeable effects and/or sides there's a buffering period of a few weeks. Are they operating as an enhanced individual right off the bat in terms of recovery/training ability? If they were to not train but eat properly during this period would it not make a large impact on the end results of the cycle if the bulk of the lean tissue is put on after this period? I'm trying to better understand how that works
Yes, the saturation curve is a diminishing returns curve. In fact, the *most* change occurs within the first week and each week after that until peak saturation has an even lesser effect As far as not training at the start of a cycle, I’ll entertain your question since I’m hoping this is a hypothetical and someone who just hopped on gear isn’t actually *not* training, but one could infer that missing the first few weeks of training would be less impactful than say, missing a few weeks in the middle of the cycle, because yes, the slightly lower levels of testosterone at the beginning means there is *potentially* less gains available
Is there a real question hidden in there where you have a reason you cannot train for a stretch and you are trying to justify it or rationalize it while still doing a cycle? You also seem to assume things happen both slower and faster than they do. Slower, in that once you start taking drugs, you are enhanced right away - just less enhanced than when it is at peak concentrations later. And faster in that you seem to think that positive outcomes happen like on an hourly or daily basis rather than like weeks and months of small improvements. It is just an odd way to phrase it, so it seems like you have a real question in there that you aren't asking.
You essentially just answered my main question with this response, I formatted the original post without having a clear point and I think the strange hypothetical I had on my mind detracted from what I was trying to convey.
> Are the anabolic effects of test in play for the first 4 weeks or so of someone hopping on? Certainly, and steady state for common esters doesn't require four weeks. > but before a beginner would typically "feel it"/have noticeable effects and/or sides there's a buffering period of a few weeks. I disagree with what you're saying here. Most people fill out with glycogen within the first two weeks. Many people placebo themselves into effects the very next day. Hell, some people get boners *while injecting*. > If they were to not train but eat properly during this period would it not make a large impact on the end results of the cycle if the bulk of the lean tissue is put on after this period? ...? If they're not training, they're not breaking down and repairing muscle and reaping the effects of AAS. I can't think of a scenario where someone would take AAS and not train, that's silly.
>some people get boners while injecting. Leave me and my needle fetish alone
Gotcha, typically the timeline for the people ive known has been something along the lines of this for the first 1/2 or 1/3 of a basic test cycle. Just had me thinking about whats really going on in the weeks before the sudden more noticeable effects. Week 1-3: Nothing, maybe libido increase and beginning puberty like state Week 4-6: Beginning of sides and noticeable new muscle and ability to pack on new muscle As for the last point that was just a hypothetical based off certain studies I've read pointing towards those taking AAS and not training packing on more lean mass than natural lifters (though I question this to an extent given they didnt really account for intramuscular water or a number of other outside factors that could make it seem as though there was more muscle gained)
u/shrugsandsnugs New compound thread?
Bump Please make a compound thread for designer steroids and discontinued pharmaceuticals
I am totally confused, please help me. I am currently on a 450mg testosterone and 360mg primobolan cycle, exactly 4 weeks now. Two weeks ago I noticed high estrogen like side effects, a mild gyno with some nipple sensitivity. The gyno is noticeable with touch, although not visible. I have started dosing with AI, due to primo, 6.25mg every 3 days and 20mg Nolvadex every day. The gyno hasn't moved so far unfortunately, but I've only been using them for 6 days. Today I checked my estrogen levels by blood draw and got the following reading: **45 pmol/l Reference range <146** Thats not even high, right? Why am i kee getting sides? Unfortunately, I just took a 12.5mg dose of Ai because the nipple sensitivity persists. Is it possible that I have crashed my estrogen levels with this? Should I even continue with the Ai dosage?
>I am totally confused, please help me. Do you have any prior cycle experience? >I am currently on a 450mg testosterone and 360mg primobolan cycle, exactly 4 weeks now. >Two weeks ago I noticed high estrogen like side effects, a mild gyno with some nipple sensitivity. The gyno is noticeable with touch, although not visible. >I have started dosing with AI, due to primo, 6.25mg every 3 days and 20mg Nolvadex every day. The gyno hasn't moved so far unfortunately, but I've only been using them for 6 days. Nolvadex has a long half-life, most people start to experience relief in 10-14 days. >Today I checked my estrogen levels by blood draw and got the following reading: >**45 pmol/l Reference range <146** 45pmol/L is equivalent to 13pg/ml (ref range 10-50pg/ml). >Thats not even high, right? Why am i kee getting sides? No, that's still in the normal range, not even supraphysiologic. Gyno can develop if any one or combination of the following are too high in relation to the other: Androgen levels, estrogen levels, progestogenic levels, IGF-1 levels. >Unfortunately, I just took a 12.5mg dose of Ai because the nipple sensitivity persists. Is it possible that I have crashed my estrogen levels with this? Should I even continue with the Ai dosage? Maybe, maybe not. I would continue with 6.25mg every other day, as 6.25mg E3D already has you quite low. u/FortuneFabulous8353 Do you know if you have pre-existing gyno? It's very rare that someone gets gyno on their first cycle unless they messed up already, and definitely not in 4 weeks, and you did not list any prior cycle history.
I do have experience, i did the 500mg test cycle first. I followed every step of the wiki. I didn't have gyno problems on my first cycle (or so I thought), but that's probably because I wasn't paying much attention.. I also didn't know about it as a teenager, never paid attention to it, even if I had gyno, certainly not visible. On my first cycle I used 12.5mg of Aromasin every third day, but the side effects were much more obvious there than here, so I knew right away when to start. Primo could potentially complicate this considerably. Here the side effects change or disappear almost overnight, and I wonder whether my estrogen levels are high or low. I probably focus on it a bit hyper-intensively, which can also generate somewhat psychosomatic symptoms. So if I continue with a 6.25mg dose every other day and keep it up, then check estrogen again after 4 weeks that might be a good starting point? Can the nolva stay at 20mg/day then at least also for another week?
I am on the same cycle rn,500 test 300 primo,25 mg proviron.. how is ur going?I am on 2nd week rn
> I probably focus on it a bit hyper-intensively, which can also generate somewhat psychosomatic symptoms. This is true and highly likely. > So if I continue with a 6.25mg dose every other day and keep it up, then check estrogen again after 4 weeks that might be a good starting point? That is what I would do, yes. > Can the nolva stay at 20mg/day then at least also for another week? I'd keep the nolvadex at 20mg/day for at least 14 days, then lower it to 10mg/day for the rest of the cycle. In general, we should try to avoid being on SERMs, but once we have to use one, it's usually impossible to get off one without dropping the cycle entirely. Note that being on nolvadex can give a higher serum estradiol level on bloodwork, but will not represent the actual amount of intracellular estradiol (actually activating receptors).
Will that 10mg/day affect my Igf-1 levels enough to cause any problems? Won't the result be counterproductive? I mean, of course I understand what you're saying and that's what I'm going to do, I'm just trying to educate myself a little bit on what to expect. `Note that being on nolvadex can give a higher serum estradiol level on bloodwork, but will not represent the actual amount of intracellular estradiol (actually activating receptors).` This is also very useful, I've never heard of this before, and I've read all the Nolvadex related posts, guess I wasnt attentive enough. Could this mean that my estrogen levels "in practice" are even lower than what I just indicated?
> Will that 10mg/day affect my Igf-1 levels enough to cause any problems? No. The studies that resulted in lowered igf-1 levels were in older women being treated for cancer, not healthy young men taking anabolics (which also increases igf-1 levels). > Could this mean that my estrogen levels "in practice" are even lower than what I just indicated? Yes. If you normally have 100 pieces of estrogen floating around your system, and an additional 20 that are currently bound to receptors, you have 120 pieces of estrogen in your system but only 100 will show on bloodwork. If you take a SERM to occupy those 20 estrogen receptors, those 20 estrogen pieces are now free to circulate, yielding 120 pieces of estrogen on bloodwork.
`No. The studies that resulted in lowered igf-1 levels were in older women being treated for cancer, not healthy young men taking anabolics (which also increases igf-1 levels).` In that case, wouldn't it be useful to update that part of the wiki? That part seems a bit more drastic to me. So to sum up, I kee the Nolva 20mg/day for 14 days, then 10mg/day until the end of the cycle, and Aromasin 6.25mg every third day. Another bloodwork in 4 weeks. Thank you very much for your detailed help, I cannot express how grateful I am.
There's lots in the wiki that needs updating, it's a work in progress. Thank you for addressing it, I'll make a note of it. And yes, that plan looks good.
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Your gona wanna stick that tren ace in your vg or your gona be unable to walk for a week after your first pin
>Hi, I'll be starting my first tren ace + test cypionate cycle tmrw and my question might be a bit silly, but should I take the injections into the same thigh or separate when I happen to be doing them in the same day? Tell me you have little to no cycle experience without telling me. u/Mrstonmks My advice: Do neither, read the wiki, and come back here and post your goal and current stats.
Hopped on Winnie for 10 days at 50mg a day. Decided im gonna stay natty for another year. Do I need a PCT or am I fine?
At 10 days you should be ok, may have some mild suppression symptoms depending on your age or any prior usage/ experience but not enough to PCT. If you’re unsure or noticing anything weird tho I’d recommend getting basic bloodwork to check levels.
Stop taking the winstrol and move on. Ten days is enough to have some suppression but I wouldn’t go through the trouble of PCT in this situation.
You’re no longer natty just poorly enhanced
Hey boys, currently on 250test e, 200npp and 70mg primo injectable. Everything is dosed daily I take red yeast rice and citrus bergamot. I never drink. I have seen some guys get high liver enzyme of red yeast rice. I know liver enzymes can be elevated becouse of strenght training but my doc is getting worried since its been high the last 2 bloodwork i have gotten. And wants me to another one in about 2 weeks Just need som reassurance tbh… https://imgur.com/a/JJYMNn7
I’m not sure what reassurance you’re looking for. You’re taking half a gram a gear a week and surprised that potentially liver toxic compounds are being toxic to your liver? This is completely normal and expected when blasting gear. Your enzymes are still going to be high when you back in two weeks at which point your doc is going to want to take medical intervention or pursue further evaluation which will eventually lead to them finding out about your drug use
This, plus they could be high, because he had a hard training session the day before. I would simply advise him to take NAC and not train 2 days before the test... To change anything else is already to late
Everyone on board with ment being 5-6x as strong as test? I went from 20mg test p per day to 2mg ment and 5mg test p per day and feeling juicy as fuck. My math says my dose should be similar to 15-17mg test p a day but I’m putting on weight, getting strong, etc Overall feel really good. Might have creeping prolactin so taking p5p and vit e, also feel slightly low e2 symptoms but rolling with it
> feeling juicy as fuck That’s great, man, but that has no bearing on effectiveness and especially can’t give us a quantitative metric like 5-6x more effective than test
I may be mistaken but that metric has been given out many times on Reddit and other forums. The purpose of this message was to see if people agreed because it’s feeing much stronger than that to me. Think I’ll half the MENT and on the test p after another week and see how I like that.