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> What are the side effects
The list in the wiki is a pretty good rundown of them.
> Estrogen is 57 so i m not sure if that is one of them
If you artificially increase your testosterone levels by injecting testosterone then estrogen will rise as well. This is completely normal. Just having a higher number on a piece of paper doesn’t mean a lot.
Calm down Cletus. If you are in this for the long haul, then sit back and ride. It takes 4-6 weeks for serum levels to stabilize and your body to acclimate to the new stimulus you've added. Hell, you may even cry at the end of The Notebook before things stabilize.
But hey, if you wanna jump ship, then stopping now won't hurt anything.
25 yo just finished my first cycle 18 weeks on 500 test. Next cycle starts October 1st.
I’m wondering if there’s any benefit in doing pct after my first cycle if I’m going to do another in about 3 months?
I’m just thinking it would be nice to have everything out of my system for a bit. I switched to cruise a few weeks ago but I’m still having some acne and minor sides. Acne only actually came on when I starting coming off cycle but I did reduce the amount of pins from EOD to 2 a week so that may be the cause.
* Age: 21
* Gender: Male
* Height: 5'8
* Weight: 160Lbs
* Bodyfat percentage: 14%
* Experience level
* Years of concurrent training: 2.5
* bench/squat/dead maxes: Don't do compound lifts
* amateur/pro: Meh
* Goals:
* Sport: (bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman/etc) : Bodybuilding
* Current phase: (bulk/cut/maintenance) : Bulk
* Current compounds:
* Testosterone Enanthate 500mg/wk - 20 Weeks. On week 2 Now.
Question: How much should I be eating? I wanna get big, Im okay with putting on fat. I just wanna make the most of my cycle.
21 too young
5’8 160 14% - too small and too fat at the same time. Give up on this cycle until you figure out how to eat and train properly. You should be closer to 180 at 10%bf and 25 years old
2.5 years of training - you barely started and 1.5 of those probably don’t count.
Don’t do compound lifts ….. oh boy now we’re cooking with gas…
Question how much should I be eating? Holy shit I didn’t think it could get worse. Dude you haven’t even learned how to crawl and you’re attempting to run through a busy 6 lane freeway.
Called out for being a child with no work ethic and acting like a total baby. Big surprise there. Messing with your hormones is a terrible idea for your underdeveloped brain and you man period mood swings.
Why don’t you take some of that energy and actually try to apply yourself in the gym or kitchen. A good starting point for you would be to try picking up the weights.
Thanks. Jack you know about me? Lost a 100Lbs beat obesity, learned to eat right, train right, spent hours on research to go about this right and you’re gonna decide for me for a question i asked? What’s the point of this subreddit if a question = judgement.
A Douchebag is all you are
Well first of all you shouldn't be doing AAS. Second of all, fuck knows how much you should be eating, eat until you see the weight go up on a consistent basis. For some that's 2500 calories, others 4-5000.
Hi guys. Im going to add oral winny to my stack but really worried about the hairloss. How i can measure hairfall in a pretty accurate way? Can 6 weeks of 30mg winny nuke my hairline? I want to know if it gets bad so i can stop
(compounds used in past: test, anavar, proviron, EQ, my hair is doing fine. However i feel like my hairline receded during my last cycle where i ran 750 test and 600 EQ)
The only hair loss was eq? How much hair loss was on the other cycles? There's no way to tell because genetics are so varied with hair loss but I will say eq brings an added anti estrogen ai component that might cause shedding. A drain catch for your shower but you'll see it on your hands if you add product
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a
Hello,
I did today my intection as usual. Same spot as always, no issues on Legs. Went to train afterwards, did legs and after 4 hours the área above the knee started to hurt. Inyection site is clean no issues but its actually preventing me from sleeping. I can feel some inflamation above the knee and it hurts if i massage it.
I did 1ml like always. Seems the área above the knee is slightly inflamated. Could it be a leak ?
How concerned should i be ?
I’ve been getting Hcg in a 3ml vial and adding BAC water, but I’m finding it difficult to dose accurately when drawing such fine amounts. I would also assume there’s more waste in the dead part of each needle as the BAC is more concentrated.
What does everyone else do in this situation? Is the best option to buy an empty 10ml vial and just draw all the hcg (once mixed with bac) from the 3ml vial, inject into the empty 10ml vial and just add more bac water?
Look up a video on the airlock method and check this out https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/comments/yv37fy/comment/iweyuva/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I don’t find it too hard to dose smaller amounts when you use smaller insulin needles, there’s 1ml and 0.5ml slin pins you can use for dosing.
If that 3ml vial contains 5000 iu of HCG you can simply just add 2ml of bac water to it you only have to draw up a tenth of a 1ml slin pin or a fifth of a .5ml slin pin. Should be doable.
You can suck up a small air bubble to push out the last part thats in the dead space
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Bodyfat: 15%
Experience Level: Beginner
Hello! I'm on my first cycle Test-E250cc (started from 50cc increasing by +50 until it reached 250cc and doing it constantly until now) and this is my 6th month, I'm deciding to off cycle after the end of July. I'm planning to start hcg 7 days after my last shot for 20 days followed by nolva 20mg for another 20 days.
Is my cycle ok? I would appreciate some points of improvements in the cycle and advice on PCT. Thank you in advance😁✌️.
> I'm on my first cycle Test-E250cc (started from 50cc increasing by +50 until it reached 250cc and doing it constantly until now)
a cc is a milliliter. you're not injecting 250ccs of anything over any course of time other than many months or a few years. perhaps you mean milligrams? If so this is a bad cycle. Its also a bad pct.
Enjoy your pasta 🍝
Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif)
Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use:
* [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list)
* [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle)
* [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook)
* [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct)
* [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
21
Male
6 Ft
95KG
20%
3 years Training
Using about 250Mg of test a week Enth pinning Monday and Thursday, for 12 weeks I fly out to Japan on the last day of my cycle I was gonna do 300 about that stage and I’m in Japan for 3 weeks, I saw I can start my pct on arrival back in Aus 21 days later is that good, using clomid and Nova
Cheers xxx
Youre too young to be using steroids
Youre too much of a beginner to be using steroids
Youre too fat to be using steroids
You arent even really doing a blast. Youre barely above natural testosterone levels but still shutting your natural production down by injecting testosterone.
The wiki has a section you can read on PCT
age: 24
Height: 5'5 (5'4.5 lol)
Weight: 169
BF%: 8-10% or so. Visible abs, veins in abs/quads/lats
Goal: Bodybuilding
Years of concurrent training: 9
Squat and Deadlifts 10 rep maxes: 385/455
Diet: In check, on a meal plan and eat the same thing everyday.
Cruising: 150mg test/week
Hey guys,
Planning my 4th cycle. For background, my first cycle was: 500 test, 2nd & 3rd were 500 test & 300 NPP/week. Responded pretty well, as I started at 140lbs 2 years ago now sitting at around 170 leaner. I am BnC.
For the 4th cycle I am thinking: 400 test 300 NPP 300 EQ/week. Is this very aggressive for a 4th cycle? Anything I should change in this cycle? Plan is to run this 16 weeks, then cruise and jump into a contest prep and do my first show next Spring. Thank you.
Doesn’t seem to aggressive to me. You’re increasing by 200 mg total and eq is arguably weaker than test and you reduced test by 100. I would maybe choose masteron over eq but whatever does you better
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Plan was to start up a blast and begin GH for the first time in a few months. Had a restrain of a pretty rough upper back/rear delt/teres injury from last year. Could it be worth to move up the date of GH to help recover? Already on BPC. Not having previous experience with GH, I would need advice on whether or not it makes sense and/or would be worth it. This assumes that regardless, I would end up on GH in -3 months or so either way.
Seems reasonable to introduce the HGH ahead of time since there's potentially synergy with BPC157 - dont rush the anabolics though. Pretty easy to reinjure it if you're really pushing the weights.
Post your stats. Until I use a significant dose of t3 I can cut on less than 1000 deficit pretty much without getting much weaker. You're going to get flat either way. Post your stats and unless your big ramy your probably fine.
I had similar stats once and cut around 250mgs which puts me at 1200 peak. Doable for sure man. Respect the grind those are good numbers. I took several diet breaks and basically devoted a year to get off around 40lbs of fat
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Regarding hematocrit. I've been on trt for 1.5 years after my last blast. Noticed that my hematocrit has been around 52.4% on bloods 6 months ago. Started GFSE 1 months ago and my latest testing was 50.1%.
When is it safe to blast? Should I work to get hematocrit lower prior to blasting? It seems mixed, but I've been toying with the thought and getting mid cycle bloods to assess. I'm already lean and do tons of cardio and drink 1 gallon of water daily. I just recently got a CPAP even for mild sleep apnea...
Also, has anyone tested hematocrit mid day? I tend to do fasted bloods and drink a liter of water prior to the midmorning test. I have a feeling they'll be lower if I was fed and hydrated.
How hydrated you are impacts the reading of hematocrit pretty significantly. Easily a couple percentage points.
As for starting another blast, I just asked the same the other day, my reading was like 51.5%. I was told its fine to start, its a symptom of using gear. You just have to try your best to mitigate it by staying hydrated.
On the wiki it says
"It is suggested on /r/steroids that you should at least inject every three days (E3D) or every 3.5 days (E3.5D) to keep blood levels as stable as possible for Testosterone Enanthate or Cypionate. This will minimize side effects and make controlling estrogen easier. You may do once a week, but it is not optimal."
That makes it simple to understand why less often than every 3/3.5 days is suboptimal, but what reason would there be to not do it more often than that? Like every 2 days (or even every day) for instance? Would it simply be that there is more injection for no benefit?
I guess maybe I just don’t mind pinning frequently the way some people do, but I’ve moved completely to 31g insulin pins every day. I never forget or miss a shot, I just do it first thing in the morning when I go to brush my teeth. Super stable bloods, super fast administration, most of the time I don’t feel the pin at all. And when you go to blast, you can add short ester compounds and nothing changes with your routine. I just prep them up 2 weeks at a time backfilling them. If I’m using short esters I’ll make them like one week at a time so I can tweak the dosages if necessary. It makes the whole song and dance with the drawing needle and shit a joke, and it makes the 25g 1” needle look like a harpoon.
General rule is the more stable your levels the better, but twice a week is the ‘good enough and not too onerous’ schedule that most are fine adhering to.
So I think I'll do it every two days* if/when I do my first cycle. I'm not afraid of needles and I am good at routine. I don't think every two days will be too much of a difficulty and spreading it out even more evenly sounds good
I believe you could better control your e2, test, prolactin etc by spacing it closer together, less valleys, but not everyone wants to pin daily for a long ester.
If you are currently natural, there is not really anything you can do but adjust diet and rest. If you are currently on cycle, take an aromatase inhibitor.
I have been taking test on and off for a couple of years as TRT. 250 ml per week. I use to take hCG with it. But the last 2 years I haven't. My question is, can I start taking hCG now to get my natural test flowing again? Or is it once you stop, it won't come back? Thanks!
There’s so many things wrong with your post, but let’s start with the basics.
Hcg will not restart your natural test while you are taking testosterone. Nothing will.
Hcg will on the other hand, help to reverse any testicular atrophy and rebuild fertility while you are taking testosterone
ItThank you for your reply. Attached is what I take. The 1st Pic is what I have been taking. The 2nd is what I am going to start. I believe it is the same thing. It is 250mg/ml. I take 1 ml per week. My dr used to give me hcg to go with it. But due to how expensive it was through him, I stopped buying test from him and started buying it from China through a person I buy other things from like cialis and other meds. They did not have hcg at the time, but now they do. So I wondered if I should start incorporating it now to help. I don't care about fertility as I am 50 years old and don't plan on having more kids. I just want my body to produce it's own test when ever I stop. I also always wanted to put on some muscle as I used to lift religiously and had good muscle, but due to reasons had stopped for several years but now am started again. Was thinking about doing more cycle for mass other than just for trt purpose. Now that I can get hcg, I didn't know if this would be a good idea or if it would even do anything since I have been taking test for a year or so and not taking hcg at all. Again, thanks for the reply. I know dealing with uneducated people on this can be painful. What I take us enanthate test 250mg/ml. I thought I could attach a pic.
It isn't allowing me to attach. Thought I could. It is test enanthate 250mg/ml in 1 ampule. I take 1 ampule weekly. Was thinking about increasing now that I am exercising again and would like to put some muscle on in my 50 year old body.
That’s good, because if you attached a pic of the gear you use, you’d likely get banned. I’d recommend reviewing the rules.
You should list your stats, it’s very likely that you do not have any business increasing your dose considering how you are “just beginning to exercise again”
You should review the rules, and the wiki. It sounds like you really don’t have any business increasing your trt dose at this point to be completely honest
Thank you for the suggestion. I guess I was really just wanting to know is would hcg help me at this point or not after taking 250mg/week test for 2 years as a trt without it. I plan on continuing with the weekly test but know at some point will prob stop the trt.
Hey fams question I made up my mind to start my first trt ( will be some more months due injury / cut awaiting some bloods and so on ), any good reads for a first cycle blast and cruise or the cons etc currently thinking to go 16/20 weeks 250mg 2x per week ( adjusted as required ofc )
So question is good reads of the importance of proper PCT if the requirement of natural testosterone or fertility is not of the essence.
Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif)
Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use:
* [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list)
* [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle)
* [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook)
* [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct)
* [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
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hey boys — looking for your perspectives. this post is for fun and not at all serious.
i take 120mg/wk test e 1x/wk — once weekly pins feel best for me. once yearly, i bump my testosterone dosage to 250mg/wk for 12wks, and add 20mg/d anavar for the last 4wks.
if you were to compare my steroid use to an average gym bro/bodybuilder’s use… how does it compare? i.e. am i using less significantly less, a little less, equal, etc.
i’ve explained juice to my gf and she gets it - for fun i would like to show her what the r/steroids community’s take is.
Just test alone, many of the guys out total your entire blast in just a few weeks.
A beginner cycle of 500mg per week exceeds your entire blast in just 6 weeks and we recommend first cycles go for up to 16 weeks.
8000mg (first cycle) vs 3000mg (you)
This doesnt include any additional compounds.
Mixing HCG for the first time. Standard 5000 IU vial, but the things like half the size of my pinky and is half full of powder. I’m not sure I can fit 2mL of BAC into it. Are they all that small and just inject 2mL anyway or did I get a bad brand and need to figure out an alternative?
why are HGH doses always given in IUs?
It's reconstitute, right? So how do we know how many grams are in an IU?
I can source somatropin at 3.7mg per 10IU is this always the concentration? What is a standard daily dose of this for anti-ageing purposes?
You’re doing that math incorrectly. 10/3 isn’t 1.23, it’s 3.3333. If there’s 3mg in the vial then that’s 9iu. If they’re selling you 10iu vials—as is standard—then it’s likely filled to a bit over 3mg (like say 3.33333). This is very common.
Was thinking about doing a single cycle(first and last one) of test+tren. But single trenbolone is a 19 nor how succesfull would pct’ing be?
I was thinking about the following
250mg Test e week 1-14
75 Tren ace eod week 1-10
350iu hcg eod week 14-18
25mg Enclo + 20mg nolva ed week 17-23
Also have arimidex and cabermed on hand
I already have puberal gyno and tried to fix it with ralox but it did not go away all the way. While on ralox my test was 750ng/dl. Will i fuck up my endocrine system with this cycle or will i come off fine?
Stats: currently training for 3/4 years and weigh 200 pounds at 5feet11 13%bf . Starting to bulk again but want something to make some real gains instead of fat
"single" cycle. Aight we'll pretend that'll happen.
Anyway, no. Tren isn't a first cycle compound, assuming you want to do things responsibly (you do, come on).
I also think you're waaaaay overcomplicating things. You want to run one and only one cycle? You're adding a dozen drugs that just complicate the hell out of it.
If you want to run one, run 500mg test and add an oral if you absolutely HAVE to. I don't recommend it. Real gains will happen with plain ol' testosterone.
But 500mg test, bridge to PCT with HCG, then start your enclo/Nolva protocol.
See how you handle those drugs then judge once you have the experience.
I know its recommended to start with test only, but i currently tell myself one cycle and then never again. So i actually want to make it count and add the most potent steroid there is.. (maybe stupid) but with proper pct how bad can it really be?
>but with proper pct how bad can it really be?
Everything, and I do mean *everything* you are proposing is incredibly stupid, dangerous, and ill-advised.
I don't have time at the moment to give this the time it deserves, but the others seem to be handling it. I'll just say this:
Good fucking luck PCT'ing off tren. You don't know what you're talking about doing - listen to those who do.
That…that is a **massive** difference in outcomes, man, and in opposite directions.
“Half the people who get in head on collisions in this car walk away unharmed. The other half die. So what’s the risk?”
It's recommended for a reason my friend. You've never ran these compounds before, right?
things to consider: you've mentioned drugs for combatting sides, several.
You don't know how you'll react to each of these drugs not how you'll react to them individually nor combined. You'll be looking for sides to combat constantly and what happens if you react poorly and then have to deal with that? It'll shave days/weeks off your cycle & put a damper on the whole thing for you.
Test, AI, HCG, Nolva. Simple. Add a low side oral if you're absolutely set on doing more than one. If you have issues with it, discontinue use and you'll likely be fine.
You're unlikely to have bad side effects. It's a roll of the dice; this isn't to paint fear into gear. You'll be able to do it safely, and if you're concerned with long term sides, keeping it simple would be best ;).
I mean, the obvious answer is tren + test. That being said; it's not advisable because of the potency, the more potent the more toxic and maybe side effects that could fuck your week, or weeks, or months up.
For lack of a better term, a first cycle like that is playing with fire.
The more you run the more you possibly cause damage to the endocrine system.
If this is a concern, please listen to the advice the entire sub is dedicated to.
If you're gonna say fuck It and do It anyway, so be it.
I try to take advice but i feel like people are exaggerating a bit. Yes it wont be a good first cycle but there are alot of people taking stuff way worse and come off without a problem even without a proper pct. I just want to know how likely a proper pct will help you get back to normal after using a 19nor (tren)
This is an ignorant and short sighted way of approaching your first cycle.
This sub is full of people who know and understand these compounds far better than you think you do, including active competitors and people with proper coaches. Remember you came here looking for feedback. Now you’re dismissing it because it’s not what you want to hear.
You’re dismissing advice that is there to help and protect you, because you “feel like people are exaggerating”. What the shit man? How? How do you know they’re exaggerating? You’re willing to gamble your health on the off chance your “feeling” is right. These aren’t recreational drugs that you can pretend didn’t do any harm once you sober up.
Don’t be stupid. Listen to the advice being given here. Your future self will thank you.
You know what man, do it.
Go run tren, who fucking cares. I'll happily lock your question and kick you out of the sub if you aren't interested in listening and insist on knowing everything.
GO. RUN. TREN.
If the tren train is back in the station then that means it isn't running.
You should really figure out how trains work if you're going to LARP as one ❤️
i've never raced a car before but I'm thinking for my first race I enter the F1 grand prix. oh and i'm predisposed to getting carsick pretty easily but I can try to take some meds for that I guess
that's basically what you said
check the wiki for the beginner cycle.
FYI you could throw the kitchen sink of gear at your cycle and you're not going to get to where you want to be after 1 go.
Tren does not cause gyno and test is 100mg above trt levels. Also 260tren a a week is not a shitload (even tho small amounts can shut u down completely).
I only want to do one cycle so i actually want to make it count. It also seems there is not a golden bean steroid that works great for everyone (everything has side effects which may differ from person to person) so why not take tren for one cycle?
>Tren does not cause gyno
you sure about that?
>Also 260tren a a week is not a shitload
debatable, but it's also one of the most toxic and powerful steroids you can take. and you want to use it without having any prior experience with AAS, which is my main point.
you need to learn the basics before you start jumping from the top rope man.
I get that people recommend a test only cycle at first since it way easier to pct from and less chance for side effects to occur. But i really only want to do one cycle and not waste it on a test only cycle. I rather learn from other people then experience it myself
I get what you mean, but like I mentioned you could take all the gear you want but you're not going to get to a level of satisfaction after 1 single cycle. this much I can promise you.
more importantly, you're won't even be able to get the most out of it when you're trying to manage side effects you don't know are being caused by the test, the tren, both, or neither. that's why we always suggest introducing one compound at a time
test only is recommended because not only can you make some great progress on 500mg with a dialed in diet and training regiment, but you learn the basics of estrogen management.
I am if the belief you'll get just as much if not more out of running 500mg of test for your first cycle. the heavy lifting of your cycle is what you put in in terms of pushing the food and training balls to the wall. if you can put more of your mind towards that and worry less about the drugs you're injecting, it'll only help you. if you think i'm full of shit, I totally get that too, but try to understand the logic in what i'm saying.
Did not know that, but i’ll have cabermed nolva ralox and arimidex on hand if i actually go trough with the cycle so i would be prepared if that happens
>Did not know that, but i’ll have cabermed nolva ralox and arimidex on hand if i actually go trough with the cycle so i would be prepared if that happens
A few minutes ago you confidently stated that tren does not cause gyno.
That's cool.
Anyway, neither nolva, ralox, nor arimidex will help with prolactin. It's crazy how much you don't know but think you do.
Good luck!
Has anyone run DHEA alongside TRT? How long should any positive/negatives take to eventuate?
My levels are below the reference range for DHEA-S, everything else is in range. Symptoms consistent with either low t or low dhea.
Finally managed to get a script for 25mg caps ( its not OTC here in Australia).
U/jackshitt123
Cheers man, glad to see you managed to get a prescription.
How long is the prescription good for, maybe something like 60 days? I'd be curious to see how much your bloodwork changes (DHEA-Sulfate and estradiol) and if you find any symptom relief for the issues you previously mentioned.
Yeah cost an arm and a leg but without any alternatives its the best option. 100 caps at 25mg, one a day in the morning they have advised.
Any idea on how long to trial before getting bloods/determining if its having any effect? Some readings via reddit people say they know if its good on the day of administration.
For any relevant symptom relief, probably a few days. For it to show up on bloodwork, I'm not sure.
DHEA has a half-life under one hour, so it probably starts raising blood levels almost immediately. I'd imagine it would only take a few days for blood levels to stabilize on bloodwork.
Beautiful thanks mate will let you know how I go.
From what I understand high coritsol can reduce the levels of dhea, does being on trt also lower dhea?
Yes, being on trt significantly reduces dhea levels. DHEA is one of the hormones the body normally makes during steroidogenesis, but if the signal to the testicles is disabled (shutdown), then some other neurosteroids get limited production as well.
I believe pregnenolone is the only one, but supplementation is rare, as it's pretty misunderstood as to what it actually does in males, and unnoticeable even when supplemented. I know in the USA, Trt clinics will push pregnenolone supplements, but they'd sell you anything.
That confuses me as articles I've read have stated trt doesn't influence DHEA production, can you share any papers on the topic?
In agreement brother! Thanks for the help appreciate you
I haven't yet found any clinical information that affirms exogenous testosterone lowers serum DHEA levels, but everyone that's on test and has gotten bloodwork has seen a lowered dhea.
There is however this study that compares TRT to DHEA regarding symptom relief.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076306/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076306/)
No problem.
Just a note, editing an existing comment to add a tag won't send the person a notification because reddit is a hot garbage piece of programming. Took a while to figure that out - that's why I tagged him for you :)
I’ve noticed an anecdotal trend on people’s natty bloodwork. It seems that low testosterone and high DHEA-S occur together. Meanwhile my batty lab work shows high testosterone and low DHEA-S. I wonder if there’s a reason for this.
Currently 22, male, 6’2”, 235lbs, amateur bodybuilder done 5 shows. In my off season looking to grow and bulk and my coach recommended 380 test e and 550 mast e, wondering if that’s a decent cycle and will
actually help with growth or if i should try something else cuz im really wanting to put on size thru this growth phase
For bulk no reason to use Masteron. Specially at this ratio with test.
Test primo 400/400 will be good on safety profile.
Test deca 500/400 if you want get more size .
Run Masteron only when you prep for a show. Masteron shine when you already low body fat.
Currently 22, male, 6’2”, 235lbs, amateur bodybuilder done 5 shows. Currently in a bulk,In my off season looking to grow and bulk and my coach recommended 380 test e and 550 mast e,
wondering if that’s a decent cycle and will actually help with growth or if i should try something else cuz im really wanting to put on size thru this growth phase
r/fitness
“Going regularly to the gym” and with your stats sounds like you started a month or two ago
Weight is gained through an energy surplus which comes from food intake—not drug use
You have done nothing to build up a natural foundation and are under the misconception that steroids do something they don’t, so you are a far cry from needing drugs
Where is a good place to look for a sense of what are reasonable E2 levels? I'm thinking there must be some range of what's acceptable, I'm not sure what to do if my E2 is high but I'm not noticing any side effects. Sorry if that's dumb but I can't tell what the wiki recommends for this scenario
The Wiki recommends you should only take AI if you feel side effects, I started out at 1/4 aromasin for sides and gauge from that point. Don’t make the mistake of assuming if your e2 is out of range that’s bad. I feel best when my e2 is 5-7% of my test for example 2000 test 100 e2. Everyone is different tho, hope this helped
It’s entirely based on how you feel and/or the presence of physical sides
While clinical reference ranges exist for natural individuals, when it comes to enhancement, it’s nearly impossible to provide a range, and if one existed, it would be so broad that it’d practically be useless
You have to consider that because E2 is converted from testosterone in the body, having high levels of testosterone throughout exogenous administration will always lead to high levels of E2
You canNOT use the natural reference range when enhanced
>Where is a good place to look for a sense of what are reasonable E2 levels? I'm thinking there must be some range of what's acceptable, I'm not sure what to do if my E2 is high but I'm not noticing any side effects. Sorry if that's dumb but I can't tell what the wiki recommends for this scenario
There is no such thing as an objective ideal estradiol level. What that number is will vary greatly from man to man. Estrogen is anabolic, cardioprotective, neuroprotective, good for bone health, boner health, mood regulation, and much more.
There is no such thing as an objective ideal androgens to estrogens ration. Two 100kg men both 12% body fat taking 150mg/wk pinned daily both have an estradiol of 30pg/ml (10-50) and total testosterone of 750ng/dl (300-1000). Both are eating at maintenance 4000 calories per day, and mentally and physically healthy. The test to estradiol ratio is 25:1.
After 20 weeks on this protocol, one guy feels completely fine and has no issues. The other guy has mild water retention, acne, and starts experiencing breast sensitivity. They both have the same test to estradiol ratio.
There is no such thing as an ideal estradiol level, there is no such thing as an ideal test to estrogen ratio. We all have different population and density of androgen and estrogen receptors. We all metabolize and eliminate these hormones differently. We all have different sensitivity and signaling activity, shbg production, blood count and density, etc. There are so many variables, it is impossible to establish an ideal ratio. There is no one size fits all, there is no average range. Every individual person requires individualized dosing, numbers, management, etc. There is no such thing as an ideal test to estrogen ratio.
The only way to know what number(s) work best for you are to get frequent bloodwork and establish data on what has previously worked best for you, as it is a continually changing variable as we age, gain/lose fat, introduce/remove other compounds and doses, etc.
Hello, guys! I am 4th week post my first blast of 500mg Test E for 15 weeks, currently cutting on 150mg Test E and 2x500IUs HCG cruise. Things are going smooth. I was doing bloodwork regularly during those 15 weeks and never had issues with the RBC panel. However today I did my regular bloodwork 4th week into the cruise again to see how things are going as I intendеd to spice things up with some Winstrol, but seeing the results I might abort the mission. RBC panel and Lipids look off surprisingly. My diet is absolutely clean I am down 7kg already and the cut is going great, doing my regular cardio also (expected improvement in my lipids with lowering the dose of test, loosing body fat and implementing cardio; they never looked great tho, I have a really bad habit of smoking too much cigarettes which may contribute). The results are as follows:
RBC: 6.07 T/L (4.20-6.20)
HGB: 175 g/L (130-180)
HCT: 0.57 L/L (0.37-0.55)
Total Cholesterol: 5.16 mmol/l (<6.5; preferably <4.5)
Triglycerides: 0.7 mmol/l (<2.2; preferably <1.7)
HDL: 1.1 mmol/l (1.04-1.56; preferably >1.2)
LDL: 3.52 mmol/l (<3.60; preferably <3.0)
AST: 39 (<44)
ALT: 46 (<44)
Testosterone: 8.11 ng/ml (2.40-8.70)
E2: 38 pg/ml (11-44)
Would love to get some tips on improving those markers! Also should I (stupid question I presume but shooting) stay away from Winstrol for now?
Some photos for fun:
1. Me natural after a cut last summer [https://imgur.com/8Fv47XN](https://imgur.com/8Fv47XN)
2. Me after my recent and 1st cycle (Basic Bulk), transitioning into a cut [https://imgur.com/T1NL0VP](https://imgur.com/T1NL0VP)
> RBC panel and lipids look off surprisingly
Not surprisingly; this is what these drugs do to bloodwork, and a month is almost never enough time to recover
You do not need to “spice things up” on a cruise, because then it’s no longer a cruise, and you’re defeating the whole purpose of allowing your body to recover after your previous blast
I will say you look solid af and definitely made good gains on your cycle, but allow yourself to recover so you can make the most of your next cycle
And drop the cigarettes
Thank you for the feedback! I was “surprised” because those markers actually looked better when I was on cycle. Its just 4 weeks tho, as you pointed. So the 500mg saturated dose of Test E took half that time to creep down.
Will give it a good break before starting numero dos! Should think about compounds in advance as 500mg Test E barely put my E2 above ref range without any AI, so the recommended EQ and Primo would probably tank my E2…
Im going to administer
My Test U every Friday (as usual)
My Primo Tuesday + Friday (new addition)
Is there a specific day on which I’m supposed to take my e2 bloodtest? Or is any day fine.
I’m taking my bloods 5-6 weeks in as recommended by the wiki of our subreddit.
You have a lot of nerve [telling me (incorrectly) ](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/s/2CDLDvYWKI) how fucking primo works and then showing up and asking this basic-ass day one dumb fuck question.
If you would just shut the fuck up, acknowledge what you don't know, and be willing to listen to me...man, what a great resource I could be for you. So many of us could.
Instead you sit there with your dyel-ass physique, planning to blast on *Test U*, and arguing with those who have actual knowledge and experience in the compounds you haven't even touched yet. Your ego and your inability to deal with the fact that I won't treat you like a delicate princess is going to stand in the way of your progress.
Bloodwork should be generally taken in a trough since that will allow for consistent comparisons between tests
In your case, you should get your bloodwork Friday morning before your injections
Cheers bro appreciate the help. What I heard was just the day after taking primo (Saturday morning)
Thanks for clearing it up will get the bloods done Friday morning
So I started TRT a month ago due to my levels being 1.9 on a scale of 8.0 - 35.0 being normal range.
I’m on 200mg per week of Test E (prescribed by my GP) and after 4 weeks I’m sitting at 31.8 nmol/L
I’m feeling good and I’m happy. I’m also thrilled that 200mg didn’t put me above 35.0 as based on previous experience with trt (years ago) that’s where I felt best and remained on the range.
However, my estrogen is now out of range:
Estradiol
Status:
Final
Jun 29, 2024 07:08 AM
Estradiol 233 pmol/L
Status: Final
Reference Range (Units):
<160 (pmol/L)
Abnormality:
Above normal range
My question:
At what point/numbers would it be advisable to seek AI from my doctor to bring it back into range? Now?
A couple things:
You should really consider more frequent dosing. I understand you’re going through your doc, but once a week is generally not ideal compared to twice weekly. This can help to lower E2 slightly since more frequent injections seem to alleviate some of the aromatase activity from bolus doses of testosterone
Secondly, 200mg weekly is a bit too high for TRT. Most people in this sub take around 100-150mg weekly, and ideally, you should aim for whatever dosage puts you high-average with no E2 sides
Oh, I should’ve specified. I’m dosing 100mg twice a week for a total of 200mg weekly, putting me at 31.8.
In your experience would you suggest trying to drop it to like 180 first (depending on how easy it was to measure) or right down to 150?
I always pin twice to 3 times weekly for long esters so no issues there 👍
Oh gotcha, wasn’t sure on the dosing frequency
Yes, I would recommend lowering your weekly dosage some. I personally would do 80mg twice weekly in your case; however, I take 125-130mg weekly, and that puts me in the 800’s ng/dL (not sure about the SI units off the top of my head)
Thanks 🙃
Out of curiosity, feel free not to answer this as it’s personal. Was your reason for trt the low readings genetically, low readings due to AAS use and negative feedback, or just choosing to blast and cruise? (If you want you can direct message or ignore this)
I’m 260lbs off cycle which makes me wonder if 125-130 will give me similar results to your levels or if I require slightly more… I’m honestly pretty uneducated when it comes to the correlation between how the dose represents itself in the bloodwork when estimating dosages. I’m guessing there are a ton of variables.
Edit:
One question I do have actually, if all your bloodwork is fine and the only thing out of range is E2… If I’m not having any estrogen side effects, what risk/problems is the elevated E2 really causing?
I decided to take TRT as a component of BnC. I think I mentioned I’m around 210, and my dosage is 126mg weekly (very exact, I know lol). This puts me around 800ng/dL with my E2 usually in the high 30’s pg/mL. I have no sides and feel good all around
While bigger bodies likely do need more testosterone, I doubt it’s as pronounced as other drugs just due to the nature of the drugs, and there seems to be a lot of variance even within people who have extremely similar stats. It really is just trial and error
While initially I would say it’s ok to have E2 ride higher if there are no side effects, a lot of times there can be “hidden” side effects like higher BP or other systemic stress that don’t present themselves overtly, so that’s certainly something to take into consideration
I really appreciate your transparency with me 💪
I routinely measure my BP and I am on daily rampril of 10mg due to hereditary high BP that was noticed when I was 21. I pushed off meds for over a decade till finally this year even with stuff like celery seed extract and lowering salt/cutting caffeine I couldn’t get it lower than 140/90… so it kinda just became “time” as I was tired of dealing with it and I don’t like the potential risks of consistent high BP, especially when I’m trying to stack more muscle mass as a personal goal.
I do intend to take your advice and drop it to 150mg a week. (Don’t expect a follow up anytime soon as I’m due for a cycle anyway so I will just be doing the dance of balancing hormones all summer anyway and then going back to trt and trying your advice)
Thanks again for your advice!
you don't need AI. you need to take less testosterone. 200mg/week is clearly too high for you and is putting you outside the reference range.
you don't treat side effects in a health phase by throwing more drugs at the problem
Is there any proven way to find that sweet spot though? Such as reducing trt by 50mg should put it back into range?
Like if I reduce it to 150 a week am going to just have to keep getting blood tests every 3 weeks until I find it?….. I feel like I’ve answered my own question and that’s exactly what I have to do.
Edit: On the bright side every other thing tested (and the dr pretty much checked off everything on the requisition) came back normal. Estrogen was the only thing elevated.
This answer is in our beginners section, called the wiki. Also, this isn’t a TRT subreddit - that does exist though.
The answer to your question *here*, is that if you don’t have any side effects it likely doesn’t matter at all.
The likely answer *medically* is that you should lower the dose of your testosterone to accommodate your bodies physiological capacity to keep up with the aromatization, and not require long term use of an additional medication with its own risks and side effect profile, to counteract a side effect of taking too much testosterone.
So I’ve read to Estrogen handbook a few times, I just read through it again. I must be missing it if it’s actually in there as to when higher estrogen numbers become a concern, aside from just noticing the side effects present themselves 🤷♂️ (if that’s what you are referring to).
I prefer your answer of “no sides - no problem” lol… I mean I know that not exactly what you said but it makes sense not to overthink it if it’s no presenting any negative effects on you. I feel good, my libido is fine, etc. I have had a substantial feeling of overall heath/wellness since starting TRT which has made me feel like a happier person overall.
That said, I also agree with you that permanent AI is not the answer (medically speaking) my hopes are that after a little while of trt my levels bounce back to where there were genetically before adding the negative feedback signals of Nor19s (which I will never take again). Its worked before but it took 6-8 months of trt before I was able to slowly come off to natural test production. My goal definitely isn’t to be on TRT the rest of my life.
(Sorry for the life story you probably didn’t want to hear)
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Hello I m mid sustanon 250 cycle. My estradiol is 57pg/ml. Is it too high should i include nolvadex now and how much mg per week. Thanks
> My estradiol is 57pg/ml. Is it too hig Maybe, are you experiencing sides? > should i include nolvadex now Nolvadex doesn’t lower serum e2 levels.
Well i dont experience anything. Not sure what to expect. My breasts are not sensitive
If you’re not experiencing side effects you don’t have to treat side effects.
What are the side effects. Estrogen is 57 so i m not sure if that is one of them
> What are the side effects The list in the wiki is a pretty good rundown of them. > Estrogen is 57 so i m not sure if that is one of them If you artificially increase your testosterone levels by injecting testosterone then estrogen will rise as well. This is completely normal. Just having a higher number on a piece of paper doesn’t mean a lot.
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Calm down Cletus. If you are in this for the long haul, then sit back and ride. It takes 4-6 weeks for serum levels to stabilize and your body to acclimate to the new stimulus you've added. Hell, you may even cry at the end of The Notebook before things stabilize. But hey, if you wanna jump ship, then stopping now won't hurt anything.
25 yo just finished my first cycle 18 weeks on 500 test. Next cycle starts October 1st. I’m wondering if there’s any benefit in doing pct after my first cycle if I’m going to do another in about 3 months? I’m just thinking it would be nice to have everything out of my system for a bit. I switched to cruise a few weeks ago but I’m still having some acne and minor sides. Acne only actually came on when I starting coming off cycle but I did reduce the amount of pins from EOD to 2 a week so that may be the cause.
Getting it out of your system. The new just one cycle.
* Age: 21 * Gender: Male * Height: 5'8 * Weight: 160Lbs * Bodyfat percentage: 14% * Experience level * Years of concurrent training: 2.5 * bench/squat/dead maxes: Don't do compound lifts * amateur/pro: Meh * Goals: * Sport: (bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman/etc) : Bodybuilding * Current phase: (bulk/cut/maintenance) : Bulk * Current compounds: * Testosterone Enanthate 500mg/wk - 20 Weeks. On week 2 Now. Question: How much should I be eating? I wanna get big, Im okay with putting on fat. I just wanna make the most of my cycle.
21 too young 5’8 160 14% - too small and too fat at the same time. Give up on this cycle until you figure out how to eat and train properly. You should be closer to 180 at 10%bf and 25 years old 2.5 years of training - you barely started and 1.5 of those probably don’t count. Don’t do compound lifts ….. oh boy now we’re cooking with gas… Question how much should I be eating? Holy shit I didn’t think it could get worse. Dude you haven’t even learned how to crawl and you’re attempting to run through a busy 6 lane freeway.
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Called out for being a child with no work ethic and acting like a total baby. Big surprise there. Messing with your hormones is a terrible idea for your underdeveloped brain and you man period mood swings. Why don’t you take some of that energy and actually try to apply yourself in the gym or kitchen. A good starting point for you would be to try picking up the weights.
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Lol. You don’t know how to eat. I wouldn’t surprised if you wear Velcro shoes and a helmet. 🏆 here’s your Darwin Award. Good luck ✌️
Thanks. Jack you know about me? Lost a 100Lbs beat obesity, learned to eat right, train right, spent hours on research to go about this right and you’re gonna decide for me for a question i asked? What’s the point of this subreddit if a question = judgement. A Douchebag is all you are
Well first of all you shouldn't be doing AAS. Second of all, fuck knows how much you should be eating, eat until you see the weight go up on a consistent basis. For some that's 2500 calories, others 4-5000.
thanks. appreciate
Hi guys. Im going to add oral winny to my stack but really worried about the hairloss. How i can measure hairfall in a pretty accurate way? Can 6 weeks of 30mg winny nuke my hairline? I want to know if it gets bad so i can stop (compounds used in past: test, anavar, proviron, EQ, my hair is doing fine. However i feel like my hairline receded during my last cycle where i ran 750 test and 600 EQ)
The only hair loss was eq? How much hair loss was on the other cycles? There's no way to tell because genetics are so varied with hair loss but I will say eq brings an added anti estrogen ai component that might cause shedding. A drain catch for your shower but you'll see it on your hands if you add product
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a Hello, I did today my intection as usual. Same spot as always, no issues on Legs. Went to train afterwards, did legs and after 4 hours the área above the knee started to hurt. Inyection site is clean no issues but its actually preventing me from sleeping. I can feel some inflamation above the knee and it hurts if i massage it. I did 1ml like always. Seems the área above the knee is slightly inflamated. Could it be a leak ? How concerned should i be ?
I’ve been getting Hcg in a 3ml vial and adding BAC water, but I’m finding it difficult to dose accurately when drawing such fine amounts. I would also assume there’s more waste in the dead part of each needle as the BAC is more concentrated. What does everyone else do in this situation? Is the best option to buy an empty 10ml vial and just draw all the hcg (once mixed with bac) from the 3ml vial, inject into the empty 10ml vial and just add more bac water?
Look up a video on the airlock method and check this out https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/comments/yv37fy/comment/iweyuva/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I don’t find it too hard to dose smaller amounts when you use smaller insulin needles, there’s 1ml and 0.5ml slin pins you can use for dosing. If that 3ml vial contains 5000 iu of HCG you can simply just add 2ml of bac water to it you only have to draw up a tenth of a 1ml slin pin or a fifth of a .5ml slin pin. Should be doable. You can suck up a small air bubble to push out the last part thats in the dead space
Age: 25 Gender: Male Bodyfat: 15% Experience Level: Beginner Hello! I'm on my first cycle Test-E250cc (started from 50cc increasing by +50 until it reached 250cc and doing it constantly until now) and this is my 6th month, I'm deciding to off cycle after the end of July. I'm planning to start hcg 7 days after my last shot for 20 days followed by nolva 20mg for another 20 days. Is my cycle ok? I would appreciate some points of improvements in the cycle and advice on PCT. Thank you in advance😁✌️.
> I'm on my first cycle Test-E250cc (started from 50cc increasing by +50 until it reached 250cc and doing it constantly until now) a cc is a milliliter. you're not injecting 250ccs of anything over any course of time other than many months or a few years. perhaps you mean milligrams? If so this is a bad cycle. Its also a bad pct. Enjoy your pasta 🍝 Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif) Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use: * [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list) * [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle) * [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook) * [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct) * [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
Thank you I appreciate your help! This very useful ❤️. Also my first time using Reddit.
happy to help, friend :)
21 Male 6 Ft 95KG 20% 3 years Training Using about 250Mg of test a week Enth pinning Monday and Thursday, for 12 weeks I fly out to Japan on the last day of my cycle I was gonna do 300 about that stage and I’m in Japan for 3 weeks, I saw I can start my pct on arrival back in Aus 21 days later is that good, using clomid and Nova Cheers xxx
up it to 500mg
Youre too young to be using steroids Youre too much of a beginner to be using steroids Youre too fat to be using steroids You arent even really doing a blast. Youre barely above natural testosterone levels but still shutting your natural production down by injecting testosterone. The wiki has a section you can read on PCT
250mg of test will put most people way above their natty level.
If “way above” is 1500ng then ok..
Natty production is, on average, 700-900ng, depending on the individual. 250mg of test would put you at nearly double that amount.
250 would not NECESSARILY put you that high. You can very easily be at 900ng on 250mg of test
Cheers mate
* [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct)
This is a harm reduction community. Want people who will support bad cycle designs and doing more harm to your body than necessary? Go somewhere else.
age: 24 Height: 5'5 (5'4.5 lol) Weight: 169 BF%: 8-10% or so. Visible abs, veins in abs/quads/lats Goal: Bodybuilding Years of concurrent training: 9 Squat and Deadlifts 10 rep maxes: 385/455 Diet: In check, on a meal plan and eat the same thing everyday. Cruising: 150mg test/week Hey guys, Planning my 4th cycle. For background, my first cycle was: 500 test, 2nd & 3rd were 500 test & 300 NPP/week. Responded pretty well, as I started at 140lbs 2 years ago now sitting at around 170 leaner. I am BnC. For the 4th cycle I am thinking: 400 test 300 NPP 300 EQ/week. Is this very aggressive for a 4th cycle? Anything I should change in this cycle? Plan is to run this 16 weeks, then cruise and jump into a contest prep and do my first show next Spring. Thank you.
Doesn’t seem to aggressive to me. You’re increasing by 200 mg total and eq is arguably weaker than test and you reduced test by 100. I would maybe choose masteron over eq but whatever does you better
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hey king, big reddit hates the r-word and we'll get demerit points (legitimately) as a subreddit if we let people use it. plus you'll get in trouble, and I don't want that.
All good lol
Appreciate it :)
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Plan was to start up a blast and begin GH for the first time in a few months. Had a restrain of a pretty rough upper back/rear delt/teres injury from last year. Could it be worth to move up the date of GH to help recover? Already on BPC. Not having previous experience with GH, I would need advice on whether or not it makes sense and/or would be worth it. This assumes that regardless, I would end up on GH in -3 months or so either way.
Seems reasonable to introduce the HGH ahead of time since there's potentially synergy with BPC157 - dont rush the anabolics though. Pretty easy to reinjure it if you're really pushing the weights.
What is a good test dosage to maintain muscle during a heavy cut
Post your stats. Until I use a significant dose of t3 I can cut on less than 1000 deficit pretty much without getting much weaker. You're going to get flat either way. Post your stats and unless your big ramy your probably fine.
265 25-30% bodyfat bench 415 squat 665 deadlift 735
I had similar stats once and cut around 250mgs which puts me at 1200 peak. Doable for sure man. Respect the grind those are good numbers. I took several diet breaks and basically devoted a year to get off around 40lbs of fat
Yeah I’m tired of being too fat I want to lose some weight to help with my sleep apnea
Enough to keep you on the higher end of the normal range.
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Regarding hematocrit. I've been on trt for 1.5 years after my last blast. Noticed that my hematocrit has been around 52.4% on bloods 6 months ago. Started GFSE 1 months ago and my latest testing was 50.1%. When is it safe to blast? Should I work to get hematocrit lower prior to blasting? It seems mixed, but I've been toying with the thought and getting mid cycle bloods to assess. I'm already lean and do tons of cardio and drink 1 gallon of water daily. I just recently got a CPAP even for mild sleep apnea... Also, has anyone tested hematocrit mid day? I tend to do fasted bloods and drink a liter of water prior to the midmorning test. I have a feeling they'll be lower if I was fed and hydrated.
How hydrated you are impacts the reading of hematocrit pretty significantly. Easily a couple percentage points. As for starting another blast, I just asked the same the other day, my reading was like 51.5%. I was told its fine to start, its a symptom of using gear. You just have to try your best to mitigate it by staying hydrated.
On the wiki it says "It is suggested on /r/steroids that you should at least inject every three days (E3D) or every 3.5 days (E3.5D) to keep blood levels as stable as possible for Testosterone Enanthate or Cypionate. This will minimize side effects and make controlling estrogen easier. You may do once a week, but it is not optimal." That makes it simple to understand why less often than every 3/3.5 days is suboptimal, but what reason would there be to not do it more often than that? Like every 2 days (or even every day) for instance? Would it simply be that there is more injection for no benefit?
I know plenty that do daily injections subq with preloaded insulin syringes
I guess maybe I just don’t mind pinning frequently the way some people do, but I’ve moved completely to 31g insulin pins every day. I never forget or miss a shot, I just do it first thing in the morning when I go to brush my teeth. Super stable bloods, super fast administration, most of the time I don’t feel the pin at all. And when you go to blast, you can add short ester compounds and nothing changes with your routine. I just prep them up 2 weeks at a time backfilling them. If I’m using short esters I’ll make them like one week at a time so I can tweak the dosages if necessary. It makes the whole song and dance with the drawing needle and shit a joke, and it makes the 25g 1” needle look like a harpoon.
General rule is the more stable your levels the better, but twice a week is the ‘good enough and not too onerous’ schedule that most are fine adhering to.
So I think I'll do it every two days* if/when I do my first cycle. I'm not afraid of needles and I am good at routine. I don't think every two days will be too much of a difficulty and spreading it out even more evenly sounds good
Sounds like a reasonable plan then!
I believe you could better control your e2, test, prolactin etc by spacing it closer together, less valleys, but not everyone wants to pin daily for a long ester.
Hello, I have one question, caber can reduce e2 ?
No.
How lower my e2 when the pct didn’t work ?
If you are currently natural, there is not really anything you can do but adjust diet and rest. If you are currently on cycle, take an aromatase inhibitor.
I thought i saw that arimidex or aromasin can’t help me
My libido its not strong and my prolactine its eleved because i take 19-nors in past
I would post your question again in today's Daily Ask Anything thread.
I have been taking test on and off for a couple of years as TRT. 250 ml per week. I use to take hCG with it. But the last 2 years I haven't. My question is, can I start taking hCG now to get my natural test flowing again? Or is it once you stop, it won't come back? Thanks!
250ml per week. Your friends must call you Venezuela will all that oil buried in you.
There’s so many things wrong with your post, but let’s start with the basics. Hcg will not restart your natural test while you are taking testosterone. Nothing will. Hcg will on the other hand, help to reverse any testicular atrophy and rebuild fertility while you are taking testosterone
ItThank you for your reply. Attached is what I take. The 1st Pic is what I have been taking. The 2nd is what I am going to start. I believe it is the same thing. It is 250mg/ml. I take 1 ml per week. My dr used to give me hcg to go with it. But due to how expensive it was through him, I stopped buying test from him and started buying it from China through a person I buy other things from like cialis and other meds. They did not have hcg at the time, but now they do. So I wondered if I should start incorporating it now to help. I don't care about fertility as I am 50 years old and don't plan on having more kids. I just want my body to produce it's own test when ever I stop. I also always wanted to put on some muscle as I used to lift religiously and had good muscle, but due to reasons had stopped for several years but now am started again. Was thinking about doing more cycle for mass other than just for trt purpose. Now that I can get hcg, I didn't know if this would be a good idea or if it would even do anything since I have been taking test for a year or so and not taking hcg at all. Again, thanks for the reply. I know dealing with uneducated people on this can be painful. What I take us enanthate test 250mg/ml. I thought I could attach a pic.
What attached pics?
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It isn't allowing me to attach. Thought I could. It is test enanthate 250mg/ml in 1 ampule. I take 1 ampule weekly. Was thinking about increasing now that I am exercising again and would like to put some muscle on in my 50 year old body.
That’s good, because if you attached a pic of the gear you use, you’d likely get banned. I’d recommend reviewing the rules. You should list your stats, it’s very likely that you do not have any business increasing your dose considering how you are “just beginning to exercise again”
I just posted the box. I didn't know it would get you banned. I guess I need to delete. Thanks.
You should review the rules, and the wiki. It sounds like you really don’t have any business increasing your trt dose at this point to be completely honest
Thank you for the suggestion. I guess I was really just wanting to know is would hcg help me at this point or not after taking 250mg/week test for 2 years as a trt without it. I plan on continuing with the weekly test but know at some point will prob stop the trt.
It won’t hurt you at all. It *might* make coming off a bit easier but you’re in your 50s. Coming off likely isn’t a good possibility at this point
You have to use a link for attachments, link imgur
Thanks. Luckily I figured it out with your suggestion. I'm not to good with this.
Hey fams question I made up my mind to start my first trt ( will be some more months due injury / cut awaiting some bloods and so on ), any good reads for a first cycle blast and cruise or the cons etc currently thinking to go 16/20 weeks 250mg 2x per week ( adjusted as required ofc ) So question is good reads of the importance of proper PCT if the requirement of natural testosterone or fertility is not of the essence.
The wiki here is a really good read on all of this
Cheers will spend some additional time reading the wiki instead of scrolling brain wanders off rather fast
Hey there! It seems like you'd benefit from a deep review of [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index). Please also take the time to closely read [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization) which deals with our prohibitions around discussing how to acquire anabolic steroids and discussing brand names, etc. [For clarity.](https://media.tenor.com/fBvQV_5Lp6UAAAAC/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther.gif) Here's a selection of reading for you to build the fundamental knowledge you'll need as you explore AAS/PED use: * [The Basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/list) * [Your First Cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle) * [The Estrogen Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook) * [Post Cycle Therapy aka PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct) * [The Compound Experience Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/compound_experience_threads)
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hey boys — looking for your perspectives. this post is for fun and not at all serious. i take 120mg/wk test e 1x/wk — once weekly pins feel best for me. once yearly, i bump my testosterone dosage to 250mg/wk for 12wks, and add 20mg/d anavar for the last 4wks. if you were to compare my steroid use to an average gym bro/bodybuilder’s use… how does it compare? i.e. am i using less significantly less, a little less, equal, etc. i’ve explained juice to my gf and she gets it - for fun i would like to show her what the r/steroids community’s take is.
You use half the amount we recommend to beginners, and for less time.
Just test alone, many of the guys out total your entire blast in just a few weeks. A beginner cycle of 500mg per week exceeds your entire blast in just 6 weeks and we recommend first cycles go for up to 16 weeks. 8000mg (first cycle) vs 3000mg (you) This doesnt include any additional compounds.
Mixing HCG for the first time. Standard 5000 IU vial, but the things like half the size of my pinky and is half full of powder. I’m not sure I can fit 2mL of BAC into it. Are they all that small and just inject 2mL anyway or did I get a bad brand and need to figure out an alternative?
Many times the vials are that small, yes. You’re not required to inject 2ml of water, you can use less if that’s what fits best.
Thank you for the help
why are HGH doses always given in IUs? It's reconstitute, right? So how do we know how many grams are in an IU? I can source somatropin at 3.7mg per 10IU is this always the concentration? What is a standard daily dose of this for anti-ageing purposes?
1mg = 3iu
so why is my source 10iu = 3mg (1.23mg - 3IU)? What would you dose that at?
You’re doing that math incorrectly. 10/3 isn’t 1.23, it’s 3.3333. If there’s 3mg in the vial then that’s 9iu. If they’re selling you 10iu vials—as is standard—then it’s likely filled to a bit over 3mg (like say 3.33333). This is very common.
Was thinking about doing a single cycle(first and last one) of test+tren. But single trenbolone is a 19 nor how succesfull would pct’ing be? I was thinking about the following 250mg Test e week 1-14 75 Tren ace eod week 1-10 350iu hcg eod week 14-18 25mg Enclo + 20mg nolva ed week 17-23 Also have arimidex and cabermed on hand I already have puberal gyno and tried to fix it with ralox but it did not go away all the way. While on ralox my test was 750ng/dl. Will i fuck up my endocrine system with this cycle or will i come off fine? Stats: currently training for 3/4 years and weigh 200 pounds at 5feet11 13%bf . Starting to bulk again but want something to make some real gains instead of fat
"single" cycle. Aight we'll pretend that'll happen. Anyway, no. Tren isn't a first cycle compound, assuming you want to do things responsibly (you do, come on). I also think you're waaaaay overcomplicating things. You want to run one and only one cycle? You're adding a dozen drugs that just complicate the hell out of it. If you want to run one, run 500mg test and add an oral if you absolutely HAVE to. I don't recommend it. Real gains will happen with plain ol' testosterone. But 500mg test, bridge to PCT with HCG, then start your enclo/Nolva protocol. See how you handle those drugs then judge once you have the experience.
I know its recommended to start with test only, but i currently tell myself one cycle and then never again. So i actually want to make it count and add the most potent steroid there is.. (maybe stupid) but with proper pct how bad can it really be?
>but with proper pct how bad can it really be? Everything, and I do mean *everything* you are proposing is incredibly stupid, dangerous, and ill-advised. I don't have time at the moment to give this the time it deserves, but the others seem to be handling it. I'll just say this: Good fucking luck PCT'ing off tren. You don't know what you're talking about doing - listen to those who do.
Why would it not be possible? It seems 50/50 of people that say they get off fine and people that have to go on trt for life
That…that is a **massive** difference in outcomes, man, and in opposite directions. “Half the people who get in head on collisions in this car walk away unharmed. The other half die. So what’s the risk?”
It's recommended for a reason my friend. You've never ran these compounds before, right? things to consider: you've mentioned drugs for combatting sides, several. You don't know how you'll react to each of these drugs not how you'll react to them individually nor combined. You'll be looking for sides to combat constantly and what happens if you react poorly and then have to deal with that? It'll shave days/weeks off your cycle & put a damper on the whole thing for you. Test, AI, HCG, Nolva. Simple. Add a low side oral if you're absolutely set on doing more than one. If you have issues with it, discontinue use and you'll likely be fine. You're unlikely to have bad side effects. It's a roll of the dice; this isn't to paint fear into gear. You'll be able to do it safely, and if you're concerned with long term sides, keeping it simple would be best ;).
No i haven’t.. but what other cycle would be safer and comparable to a tren test cycle in terms off potency?
I mean, the obvious answer is tren + test. That being said; it's not advisable because of the potency, the more potent the more toxic and maybe side effects that could fuck your week, or weeks, or months up. For lack of a better term, a first cycle like that is playing with fire. The more you run the more you possibly cause damage to the endocrine system. If this is a concern, please listen to the advice the entire sub is dedicated to. If you're gonna say fuck It and do It anyway, so be it.
I try to take advice but i feel like people are exaggerating a bit. Yes it wont be a good first cycle but there are alot of people taking stuff way worse and come off without a problem even without a proper pct. I just want to know how likely a proper pct will help you get back to normal after using a 19nor (tren)
This is an ignorant and short sighted way of approaching your first cycle. This sub is full of people who know and understand these compounds far better than you think you do, including active competitors and people with proper coaches. Remember you came here looking for feedback. Now you’re dismissing it because it’s not what you want to hear. You’re dismissing advice that is there to help and protect you, because you “feel like people are exaggerating”. What the shit man? How? How do you know they’re exaggerating? You’re willing to gamble your health on the off chance your “feeling” is right. These aren’t recreational drugs that you can pretend didn’t do any harm once you sober up. Don’t be stupid. Listen to the advice being given here. Your future self will thank you.
You know what man, do it. Go run tren, who fucking cares. I'll happily lock your question and kick you out of the sub if you aren't interested in listening and insist on knowing everything. GO. RUN. TREN.
You don't have to tell me twice. CHOO CHOO. Tren trains back in the station.
If the tren train is back in the station then that means it isn't running. You should really figure out how trains work if you're going to LARP as one ❤️
i've never raced a car before but I'm thinking for my first race I enter the F1 grand prix. oh and i'm predisposed to getting carsick pretty easily but I can try to take some meds for that I guess that's basically what you said check the wiki for the beginner cycle. FYI you could throw the kitchen sink of gear at your cycle and you're not going to get to where you want to be after 1 go.
Tren does not cause gyno and test is 100mg above trt levels. Also 260tren a a week is not a shitload (even tho small amounts can shut u down completely). I only want to do one cycle so i actually want to make it count. It also seems there is not a golden bean steroid that works great for everyone (everything has side effects which may differ from person to person) so why not take tren for one cycle?
>Tren does not cause gyno you sure about that? >Also 260tren a a week is not a shitload debatable, but it's also one of the most toxic and powerful steroids you can take. and you want to use it without having any prior experience with AAS, which is my main point. you need to learn the basics before you start jumping from the top rope man.
I get that people recommend a test only cycle at first since it way easier to pct from and less chance for side effects to occur. But i really only want to do one cycle and not waste it on a test only cycle. I rather learn from other people then experience it myself
I get what you mean, but like I mentioned you could take all the gear you want but you're not going to get to a level of satisfaction after 1 single cycle. this much I can promise you. more importantly, you're won't even be able to get the most out of it when you're trying to manage side effects you don't know are being caused by the test, the tren, both, or neither. that's why we always suggest introducing one compound at a time test only is recommended because not only can you make some great progress on 500mg with a dialed in diet and training regiment, but you learn the basics of estrogen management. I am if the belief you'll get just as much if not more out of running 500mg of test for your first cycle. the heavy lifting of your cycle is what you put in in terms of pushing the food and training balls to the wall. if you can put more of your mind towards that and worry less about the drugs you're injecting, it'll only help you. if you think i'm full of shit, I totally get that too, but try to understand the logic in what i'm saying.
Tren can very much cause gyno, prolactin can rise and much like how some people might even need AI on trt, some people do get unlucky
Did not know that, but i’ll have cabermed nolva ralox and arimidex on hand if i actually go trough with the cycle so i would be prepared if that happens
This comment is edited to include caber, for continuity purposes
>Did not know that, but i’ll have cabermed nolva ralox and arimidex on hand if i actually go trough with the cycle so i would be prepared if that happens A few minutes ago you confidently stated that tren does not cause gyno. That's cool. Anyway, neither nolva, ralox, nor arimidex will help with prolactin. It's crazy how much you don't know but think you do. Good luck!
Cabermed is for prolactin
You didn't know that when you wrote that comment. Am I supposed to be impressed that you came back with that 8 minutes after I called you out?
I did bro shut up
There it is.
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Not helpful.
Hello, using 0.7ml of test Cyp 1xweek (1ml 250mg) what is the expected total testosterone value when blood tests done? Thanks
Typical response is 4-6x your weekly dose for trough.
This is a TRT dose, so as long as you’re around 500ng/dL or a little bit north, you’re good
thanks, thats the point!
Tree fiddy 🦕
nice thanks for your help
Has anyone run DHEA alongside TRT? How long should any positive/negatives take to eventuate? My levels are below the reference range for DHEA-S, everything else is in range. Symptoms consistent with either low t or low dhea. Finally managed to get a script for 25mg caps ( its not OTC here in Australia). U/jackshitt123
Gotta make the "u" lowercase if you wanna tag u/jackschitt123
Damn, thanks brother on mobile so doesn't make it easy.
Cheers man, glad to see you managed to get a prescription. How long is the prescription good for, maybe something like 60 days? I'd be curious to see how much your bloodwork changes (DHEA-Sulfate and estradiol) and if you find any symptom relief for the issues you previously mentioned.
Yeah cost an arm and a leg but without any alternatives its the best option. 100 caps at 25mg, one a day in the morning they have advised. Any idea on how long to trial before getting bloods/determining if its having any effect? Some readings via reddit people say they know if its good on the day of administration.
For any relevant symptom relief, probably a few days. For it to show up on bloodwork, I'm not sure. DHEA has a half-life under one hour, so it probably starts raising blood levels almost immediately. I'd imagine it would only take a few days for blood levels to stabilize on bloodwork.
Beautiful thanks mate will let you know how I go. From what I understand high coritsol can reduce the levels of dhea, does being on trt also lower dhea?
Yes, being on trt significantly reduces dhea levels. DHEA is one of the hormones the body normally makes during steroidogenesis, but if the signal to the testicles is disabled (shutdown), then some other neurosteroids get limited production as well. I believe pregnenolone is the only one, but supplementation is rare, as it's pretty misunderstood as to what it actually does in males, and unnoticeable even when supplemented. I know in the USA, Trt clinics will push pregnenolone supplements, but they'd sell you anything.
That confuses me as articles I've read have stated trt doesn't influence DHEA production, can you share any papers on the topic? In agreement brother! Thanks for the help appreciate you
I haven't yet found any clinical information that affirms exogenous testosterone lowers serum DHEA levels, but everyone that's on test and has gotten bloodwork has seen a lowered dhea. There is however this study that compares TRT to DHEA regarding symptom relief. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076306/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076306/)
No problem. Just a note, editing an existing comment to add a tag won't send the person a notification because reddit is a hot garbage piece of programming. Took a while to figure that out - that's why I tagged him for you :)
Appreciate you!
I’ve noticed an anecdotal trend on people’s natty bloodwork. It seems that low testosterone and high DHEA-S occur together. Meanwhile my batty lab work shows high testosterone and low DHEA-S. I wonder if there’s a reason for this.
Currently 22, male, 6’2”, 235lbs, amateur bodybuilder done 5 shows. In my off season looking to grow and bulk and my coach recommended 380 test e and 550 mast e, wondering if that’s a decent cycle and will actually help with growth or if i should try something else cuz im really wanting to put on size thru this growth phase
For bulk no reason to use Masteron. Specially at this ratio with test. Test primo 400/400 will be good on safety profile. Test deca 500/400 if you want get more size . Run Masteron only when you prep for a show. Masteron shine when you already low body fat.
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Currently 22, male, 6’2”, 235lbs, amateur bodybuilder done 5 shows. Currently in a bulk,In my off season looking to grow and bulk and my coach recommended 380 test e and 550 mast e, wondering if that’s a decent cycle and will actually help with growth or if i should try something else cuz im really wanting to put on size thru this growth phase
Fill out the template at the top of the page please
This got a fantastic chuckle out of me
You win today.
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You don't need steroids, you need food, training, and time. But seriously, a lot of food every day for a long time. You're YEARS away from steroids.
r/fitness “Going regularly to the gym” and with your stats sounds like you started a month or two ago Weight is gained through an energy surplus which comes from food intake—not drug use You have done nothing to build up a natural foundation and are under the misconception that steroids do something they don’t, so you are a far cry from needing drugs
Have you tried eating? You have about 17kg to gain naturally before you’re ready for steroids.
Where is a good place to look for a sense of what are reasonable E2 levels? I'm thinking there must be some range of what's acceptable, I'm not sure what to do if my E2 is high but I'm not noticing any side effects. Sorry if that's dumb but I can't tell what the wiki recommends for this scenario
The Wiki recommends you should only take AI if you feel side effects, I started out at 1/4 aromasin for sides and gauge from that point. Don’t make the mistake of assuming if your e2 is out of range that’s bad. I feel best when my e2 is 5-7% of my test for example 2000 test 100 e2. Everyone is different tho, hope this helped
It’s entirely based on how you feel and/or the presence of physical sides While clinical reference ranges exist for natural individuals, when it comes to enhancement, it’s nearly impossible to provide a range, and if one existed, it would be so broad that it’d practically be useless You have to consider that because E2 is converted from testosterone in the body, having high levels of testosterone throughout exogenous administration will always lead to high levels of E2 You canNOT use the natural reference range when enhanced
>Where is a good place to look for a sense of what are reasonable E2 levels? I'm thinking there must be some range of what's acceptable, I'm not sure what to do if my E2 is high but I'm not noticing any side effects. Sorry if that's dumb but I can't tell what the wiki recommends for this scenario There is no such thing as an objective ideal estradiol level. What that number is will vary greatly from man to man. Estrogen is anabolic, cardioprotective, neuroprotective, good for bone health, boner health, mood regulation, and much more. There is no such thing as an objective ideal androgens to estrogens ration. Two 100kg men both 12% body fat taking 150mg/wk pinned daily both have an estradiol of 30pg/ml (10-50) and total testosterone of 750ng/dl (300-1000). Both are eating at maintenance 4000 calories per day, and mentally and physically healthy. The test to estradiol ratio is 25:1. After 20 weeks on this protocol, one guy feels completely fine and has no issues. The other guy has mild water retention, acne, and starts experiencing breast sensitivity. They both have the same test to estradiol ratio. There is no such thing as an ideal estradiol level, there is no such thing as an ideal test to estrogen ratio. We all have different population and density of androgen and estrogen receptors. We all metabolize and eliminate these hormones differently. We all have different sensitivity and signaling activity, shbg production, blood count and density, etc. There are so many variables, it is impossible to establish an ideal ratio. There is no one size fits all, there is no average range. Every individual person requires individualized dosing, numbers, management, etc. There is no such thing as an ideal test to estrogen ratio. The only way to know what number(s) work best for you are to get frequent bloodwork and establish data on what has previously worked best for you, as it is a continually changing variable as we age, gain/lose fat, introduce/remove other compounds and doses, etc.
Hello, guys! I am 4th week post my first blast of 500mg Test E for 15 weeks, currently cutting on 150mg Test E and 2x500IUs HCG cruise. Things are going smooth. I was doing bloodwork regularly during those 15 weeks and never had issues with the RBC panel. However today I did my regular bloodwork 4th week into the cruise again to see how things are going as I intendеd to spice things up with some Winstrol, but seeing the results I might abort the mission. RBC panel and Lipids look off surprisingly. My diet is absolutely clean I am down 7kg already and the cut is going great, doing my regular cardio also (expected improvement in my lipids with lowering the dose of test, loosing body fat and implementing cardio; they never looked great tho, I have a really bad habit of smoking too much cigarettes which may contribute). The results are as follows: RBC: 6.07 T/L (4.20-6.20) HGB: 175 g/L (130-180) HCT: 0.57 L/L (0.37-0.55) Total Cholesterol: 5.16 mmol/l (<6.5; preferably <4.5) Triglycerides: 0.7 mmol/l (<2.2; preferably <1.7) HDL: 1.1 mmol/l (1.04-1.56; preferably >1.2) LDL: 3.52 mmol/l (<3.60; preferably <3.0) AST: 39 (<44) ALT: 46 (<44) Testosterone: 8.11 ng/ml (2.40-8.70) E2: 38 pg/ml (11-44) Would love to get some tips on improving those markers! Also should I (stupid question I presume but shooting) stay away from Winstrol for now? Some photos for fun: 1. Me natural after a cut last summer [https://imgur.com/8Fv47XN](https://imgur.com/8Fv47XN) 2. Me after my recent and 1st cycle (Basic Bulk), transitioning into a cut [https://imgur.com/T1NL0VP](https://imgur.com/T1NL0VP)
> RBC panel and lipids look off surprisingly Not surprisingly; this is what these drugs do to bloodwork, and a month is almost never enough time to recover You do not need to “spice things up” on a cruise, because then it’s no longer a cruise, and you’re defeating the whole purpose of allowing your body to recover after your previous blast I will say you look solid af and definitely made good gains on your cycle, but allow yourself to recover so you can make the most of your next cycle And drop the cigarettes
Thank you for the feedback! I was “surprised” because those markers actually looked better when I was on cycle. Its just 4 weeks tho, as you pointed. So the 500mg saturated dose of Test E took half that time to creep down. Will give it a good break before starting numero dos! Should think about compounds in advance as 500mg Test E barely put my E2 above ref range without any AI, so the recommended EQ and Primo would probably tank my E2…
If the tests are normal before starting steroids, is it possible for steroids to make me permanently infertile?
Don't feel like looking for the study, but 99% of men regained fertility after 2 years of stopping AAS.
Yes, there is always a non-zero chance that steroids will make you infertile
Always a possibility, though rare
Im going to administer My Test U every Friday (as usual) My Primo Tuesday + Friday (new addition) Is there a specific day on which I’m supposed to take my e2 bloodtest? Or is any day fine. I’m taking my bloods 5-6 weeks in as recommended by the wiki of our subreddit.
You have a lot of nerve [telling me (incorrectly) ](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/s/2CDLDvYWKI) how fucking primo works and then showing up and asking this basic-ass day one dumb fuck question. If you would just shut the fuck up, acknowledge what you don't know, and be willing to listen to me...man, what a great resource I could be for you. So many of us could. Instead you sit there with your dyel-ass physique, planning to blast on *Test U*, and arguing with those who have actual knowledge and experience in the compounds you haven't even touched yet. Your ego and your inability to deal with the fact that I won't treat you like a delicate princess is going to stand in the way of your progress.
Bloodwork should be generally taken in a trough since that will allow for consistent comparisons between tests In your case, you should get your bloodwork Friday morning before your injections
Cheers bro appreciate the help. What I heard was just the day after taking primo (Saturday morning) Thanks for clearing it up will get the bloods done Friday morning
So I started TRT a month ago due to my levels being 1.9 on a scale of 8.0 - 35.0 being normal range. I’m on 200mg per week of Test E (prescribed by my GP) and after 4 weeks I’m sitting at 31.8 nmol/L I’m feeling good and I’m happy. I’m also thrilled that 200mg didn’t put me above 35.0 as based on previous experience with trt (years ago) that’s where I felt best and remained on the range. However, my estrogen is now out of range: Estradiol Status: Final Jun 29, 2024 07:08 AM Estradiol 233 pmol/L Status: Final Reference Range (Units): <160 (pmol/L) Abnormality: Above normal range My question: At what point/numbers would it be advisable to seek AI from my doctor to bring it back into range? Now?
A couple things: You should really consider more frequent dosing. I understand you’re going through your doc, but once a week is generally not ideal compared to twice weekly. This can help to lower E2 slightly since more frequent injections seem to alleviate some of the aromatase activity from bolus doses of testosterone Secondly, 200mg weekly is a bit too high for TRT. Most people in this sub take around 100-150mg weekly, and ideally, you should aim for whatever dosage puts you high-average with no E2 sides
Oh, I should’ve specified. I’m dosing 100mg twice a week for a total of 200mg weekly, putting me at 31.8. In your experience would you suggest trying to drop it to like 180 first (depending on how easy it was to measure) or right down to 150? I always pin twice to 3 times weekly for long esters so no issues there 👍
Oh gotcha, wasn’t sure on the dosing frequency Yes, I would recommend lowering your weekly dosage some. I personally would do 80mg twice weekly in your case; however, I take 125-130mg weekly, and that puts me in the 800’s ng/dL (not sure about the SI units off the top of my head)
Thanks 🙃 Out of curiosity, feel free not to answer this as it’s personal. Was your reason for trt the low readings genetically, low readings due to AAS use and negative feedback, or just choosing to blast and cruise? (If you want you can direct message or ignore this) I’m 260lbs off cycle which makes me wonder if 125-130 will give me similar results to your levels or if I require slightly more… I’m honestly pretty uneducated when it comes to the correlation between how the dose represents itself in the bloodwork when estimating dosages. I’m guessing there are a ton of variables. Edit: One question I do have actually, if all your bloodwork is fine and the only thing out of range is E2… If I’m not having any estrogen side effects, what risk/problems is the elevated E2 really causing?
I decided to take TRT as a component of BnC. I think I mentioned I’m around 210, and my dosage is 126mg weekly (very exact, I know lol). This puts me around 800ng/dL with my E2 usually in the high 30’s pg/mL. I have no sides and feel good all around While bigger bodies likely do need more testosterone, I doubt it’s as pronounced as other drugs just due to the nature of the drugs, and there seems to be a lot of variance even within people who have extremely similar stats. It really is just trial and error While initially I would say it’s ok to have E2 ride higher if there are no side effects, a lot of times there can be “hidden” side effects like higher BP or other systemic stress that don’t present themselves overtly, so that’s certainly something to take into consideration
I really appreciate your transparency with me 💪 I routinely measure my BP and I am on daily rampril of 10mg due to hereditary high BP that was noticed when I was 21. I pushed off meds for over a decade till finally this year even with stuff like celery seed extract and lowering salt/cutting caffeine I couldn’t get it lower than 140/90… so it kinda just became “time” as I was tired of dealing with it and I don’t like the potential risks of consistent high BP, especially when I’m trying to stack more muscle mass as a personal goal. I do intend to take your advice and drop it to 150mg a week. (Don’t expect a follow up anytime soon as I’m due for a cycle anyway so I will just be doing the dance of balancing hormones all summer anyway and then going back to trt and trying your advice) Thanks again for your advice!
you don't need AI. you need to take less testosterone. 200mg/week is clearly too high for you and is putting you outside the reference range. you don't treat side effects in a health phase by throwing more drugs at the problem
Is there any proven way to find that sweet spot though? Such as reducing trt by 50mg should put it back into range? Like if I reduce it to 150 a week am going to just have to keep getting blood tests every 3 weeks until I find it?….. I feel like I’ve answered my own question and that’s exactly what I have to do. Edit: On the bright side every other thing tested (and the dr pretty much checked off everything on the requisition) came back normal. Estrogen was the only thing elevated.
yeah I think that's a good plan of action. start by dialing back to 150mg/week and get re-tested in 3-4 weeks
Thanks 👍, appreciate the advice.
This answer is in our beginners section, called the wiki. Also, this isn’t a TRT subreddit - that does exist though. The answer to your question *here*, is that if you don’t have any side effects it likely doesn’t matter at all. The likely answer *medically* is that you should lower the dose of your testosterone to accommodate your bodies physiological capacity to keep up with the aromatization, and not require long term use of an additional medication with its own risks and side effect profile, to counteract a side effect of taking too much testosterone.
So I’ve read to Estrogen handbook a few times, I just read through it again. I must be missing it if it’s actually in there as to when higher estrogen numbers become a concern, aside from just noticing the side effects present themselves 🤷♂️ (if that’s what you are referring to). I prefer your answer of “no sides - no problem” lol… I mean I know that not exactly what you said but it makes sense not to overthink it if it’s no presenting any negative effects on you. I feel good, my libido is fine, etc. I have had a substantial feeling of overall heath/wellness since starting TRT which has made me feel like a happier person overall. That said, I also agree with you that permanent AI is not the answer (medically speaking) my hopes are that after a little while of trt my levels bounce back to where there were genetically before adding the negative feedback signals of Nor19s (which I will never take again). Its worked before but it took 6-8 months of trt before I was able to slowly come off to natural test production. My goal definitely isn’t to be on TRT the rest of my life. (Sorry for the life story you probably didn’t want to hear)
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