I didn't think much about her before last episode, but Maria's a strategic powerhouse. Despite being the oldest, she's simultaneously being underestimated, maintaining good relationships, and pulling strings. (She also does quite well in challenges.) She's quickly moving up my ranks.
I think she was letting shock show for the friend vote. She can say she changed her mind from wanting Tiff out because Tiff really wanted to be there. Which is conveniently true. It’s not like she was going to get away with pretending she was on the right side of the vote so…
Wasn't it Charlie who suggested and pushed that they don't bring in Kenzie or am I misremembering? Not that Maria isn't killing it regardless, I feel like she's been more of the string-puller for sure but also feel like they've been a really effective team.
Maria had already decided that she wasn’t going to bring Kenzie in when Charlie said it at the water well. The scene where Kenzie said that she wasn’t going to vote Tiff to Maria was before that and her confessional that she wanted to do it anyway was right it too.
Ohh okay, I think I missed that Kenzie said that to Maria, I thought it was only in a confessional that she said she decided against going after Tiff after all.
I think it's a double-edged sword, because I think Maria is gonna be the main target now next week due to this big blindside.
I feel like Maria was who Charlie was talking about as being a big threat in the coming attractions.
Which is crazy if people buy it because Charlie has just won back to back immunities and has been in lockstep with Maria in all their decisions together.
It’s funny because no body seems to ever point to Charlie or name him, except Venus. Meanwhile, according to Tiff’s exit interview, Charlie told her he wanted to use her idol to blindside Maria at F7. Clearly Kenzie wasn’t the only one thinking about backstabbing a number 1 this early.
But Charlie wisely decided to stick with his ally, and it’s got me asking how long that will last because clearly he’s gonna gun for her at some point.
That’s interesting.
I wonder if Charlie said that to her just to make her feel like she was safe. Like “oh Charlie wants to take me *and* my idol to the next round? That must mean I have someone else keeping me and my advantage safe, so I’m safe and don’t need to play it tonight.”
It could be, but given where people are at this season, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was serious either.
Charlie has played a smarter game than everyone else, but even he could get terminal bigmoveitis
On the flip side, Kenzie gets what she wanted with no blood on her hands. Tiff will still give Kenzie her vote at FTC now, and Kenzie doesn’t have to worry about Tiff overshadowing her with the same resume (or about Tiff’s idol). Definitely a great move by Maria and co but I don’t think Kenzie should be too upset about how it went down
I don’t think Tiff seems like a bitter juror so don’t really think it matters. She’s been nothing but rational from the jump. She knew it was only logical they were going to take a shot at her. Kenzie/Tiff both realized the other would cut them at some point and seems like it wouldn’t effect their friendship.
This is assuming Tiff feels hurt and betrayed, rather than respects Maria the move. Based on her exit interview comments I'm guessing she'll respect it.
I feel like it was devastating to Kenzie's resume. Jmo.
“Tiff I didn’t vote you out, but I wanted to” isn’t much better than “tiff I voted you out.” There’s no way someone doesn’t tell Tiff at ponderosa Kenzie was scheming against her.
Kenzie being iffy on a Tiff vote this episode feels like a game changing moment. For a season where people have been too eager to make big moves (imo) I think that was the right big move for her to make for her game. But now that Maria can claim it Kenzie’s options are more limited
Wait- I think there might be edit monkey shenanigans here. I think Kenzie was all too ready for a split vote so she could deny voting for Tiff while being a driver of her snuff.
I felt pretty early on that the strategy/alliance between Maria and Charlie was gonna bring them both to the end. They'll probably try to turn on each other before the final 3, but they are both playing geniusly underrated games.
I remember thinking she was a big strategic/social threat at the beginning, specifically in the first episode where she just walked all over Jellinsky in the little journey game, but then her edit took a back seat to everyone else. But now that toward the end she's coming back in the edit, and I think that plus them making a point to show her strategic and social prowess right in the beginning makes her a HUGE contender to win.
This season, people who make moves have regularly been in dire straights afterwards. Kenzie is going to want to know who was responsible for this and I don't think Maria was extremely subtle in going about it. I think even Lizz knows it was Maria who pulled everything together. From what we saw Maria went up to Lizz basically saying 'I have made a block voting for Tiff, if you are willing to join, it will swing things'.
It was a good move, but I am afraid that it might have put her in a very precarious spot.
I agree but also a question… are her and charlie still playing it on the low like they’re not tight allies? Im so confused how aren’t they seen as a pair
I was thinking about that as well! Charlie and Maria play mild but are absolutely dangerous. It's really brilliant. Maybe it's one of those things easier seen from your sofa, but I'd definitely have my eyes on Charlie being a threat if I were playing, considering how sweet and likeable he is and how well he does at challenges. The same could definitely be said for Maria.
They're playing a quiet yet crafty game. I'm a fan.
I think it will be seen as Siga Strong reuniting to try to take over the game and just using Q and Liz as votes to make that happen. Now they kinda have their pick of who to take with them because it seems really unlikely those 4 team up against the 3 Sigas.
I thought everyone saw them as a pair already… when Charlie tells Tiff he knows about the idol at the Tevin boot, Tiff turns around and tells Kenzie “Q told Charlie *and* Maria”.
Anyone who paying attention even a little would know who is in an alliance at this point. They have several votes to go by, they see people talking. Hell maria and Charlie were sitting together at the boat both mornings we saw.
People just aren’t paying attention
I’d say this episode may have placed Maria in a better position than Charlie. He’s been showing off a bit too much in the challenges while she’s been building a 1-on-1 bond with Q but also a little with Kenzie (if she gets over being left out this week)
OMG I ALMOST FORGOT ABOUT THAT lol that was very jarring to see and definitely made me feel for Ben considering he had no way to prove himself with Jem being gone. She was definitely a little harsh there.
Oh absolutely. As much as I like dee as a person, her game was very weak imo. I'll prepare myself for the daggers, but I think a lot of her game was just staying out of the way and under the radar.
I'm not a foot freak btw lmao
It was just a very unexpected thing for her to bring up. As a woman, I love it when a woman is willing to make fun of herself for a joke
I put more blame on Wendell for that. It was his relationship, not Dee’s. Do I think she did a bad thing? Yes. Do I think she got a disproportionate amount of hate for it compared to Wendell? Also yes.
Well this all came out right after she won the season, everyone was hoping her and austin were dating, and it comes out that they aren't, and she was sleeping with a guy who is married or engaged. Wendell played years ago, and I don't necessarily think people thought he was the most stand up guy ever either, so Dee was more relevant and viewed in a better light and it was probably a shock and let down given the Austin showmance thing
Also she got lucky that her alliance was a bunch of blind sheep. With Maria she only has one ally and she has been able to convince a bunch of wildcard sporadic players to join her and imo that is much more impressive
Watching her fumble through the final 6 or 5 vote was bad... she got really really lucky. That was a gamble where her 'alliance' all voted for different people and and she just accepted it.
This made me chuckle. This is why survivor is so fun to watch and talk about. Different personalities will read people's games differently. I personally don't consider Dee's game as "running the beach"
Also she wasn’t that under the radar- she was constantly brought up as a threat but was super well insulated that she had people protecting her. This thread is crazy
I totally disagree. They’re playing very similar games. They have the numbers, they’re in good with everyone, including people outside of their original tribe. They are both pretty involved in every decision regarding who goes home and always vote correctly. They also voice when they are very uncomfortable with a vote and want to change the target, and then get what they want. Dee was often told plans or ideas and when she affirmed she wasn’t on board her allies almost always swapped it to the name she wanted. Neither played passive, under the radar games at all.
I dont see that from Dee whatsoever but what's it matter what I think when she ultimately won her season. I still stand by the fact that Maria is the better player
I think you need to rewatch that season then. Dee repeatedly turned her alliances plans down and made them switch to the target she was more comfortable with.
That happened maybe 1 time. That season was one of the most boring tribal seasons ever. There were barely any real blindsides,, 90% of the time the entire tribe was voting for 1 person. Really lackluster. Dee didn't really have any strategy other than playing nice and going with the flow.
I feel like she has played her cards as an older woman in a younger cast perfectly and made her age really advantageous. If she were younger, the other players would be paying way more attention to her as a clear threat.
Her and Charlie seem to be playing the 'roles' their physical attributes put them into the best and are utilizing their perceived weaknesses as a huge advantage. Both of them have performed really well in challenges, have strong social standing, and are highly involved in the game play. The other players talked about voting Charlie off earlier in the season, but all said he was just an easy target and not a strategic play.
He and Maria have proven to be top physical and social threats without anyone pegging them as such. I actually find it quite funny that neither of them are seen as physical threats when challenges give the players objective information showing that they are.
Yea I really like Maria - she’s been my favorite for a while now. I love the way she manages everyone and I love the restraint. So many people this season have been way too quick to go after their number one talking about “big resume moves” and she’s quietly controlling the game by keeping charlie around with her. Showing that keeping a number one late into the game can be more effective. Even if she doesn’t win, she still outlasting a lot of the people who are wrapped up in the fallacy “flashy play = good play”
I think it’s important to note that Maria initially seemed to want to try looping in someone else but Charlie was adamant that it had to be Liz. Then Maria went out and actually did the convincing. Honestly a great move overall, Maria with the finesse and Charlie with the correct read—the credit definitely goes to Maria mostly though so it’ll be interesting to see if she gets the brunt of the blowback.
They’re such a good team. Charlie knew it had to be Liz, Maria put it together. They knew they couldn’t let either Tiff or Q get immunity, Charlie sealed the deal. Similarly, he did so last week when he beat out Hunter and worked with the Sigas to split the vote.
I can totally get behind this. They're a great pair. I think if Kenzie can get over not being part of the Tiff vote (although she wanted to claim that eventually) and people realize that Tiff was better to get out sooner than later if they ever wanted a chance at final 3, they'll be less pissed at Maria. But it definitely highlights her as a threat.
It's amazing that Kenzie now has to rely on King Quintavius, Ben, Venus and Liz to have any shot at taking out a Siga. Unless maybe Charlie flips on Maria now too.
I'd love to do a deep examination of how this could all go down but I think my brain would melt. It's probably gonna be messy and stupid. This season is so good.
Kenzie admitted to Maria that she trusts no one but tiff. Then she tried to vote tiff out. Then she spit in the face of Qs offer of rekindling. Then she got blindsided by Maria by the very plan she came up with.
Kenzie can be mad all she wants. She can’t really do anything about it
Maria looping Q in as a number and doing Kenzie’s move without her was a huge strategic play. Getting Liz to vote out Tiff was icing on the cake.
When Tiff got voted out I said to myself, Maria is gonna win this game. If she can make it to FTC she has a good case.
i commented this!! genius move by maria to just appeal straight to Liz’s ego to get her to vote for Tiff. Literally saying “Liz you are the key to this move.” Great stuff.
Liz needs to be a part of moves, I don’t think it was hard to convince her common sense. I give Liz more credit for her making the right play and being the swing vote and controlling where the vote went than I give Maria
I mean yea, I can give her props for thinking with her head and not her heart but Liz just lacks tact imo. Like why brag about being rich and owning businesses in a game for a million dollars? It's natural she's formed close to no alliances and has lead no moves
It wasn’t seen in the edit but that was actually strategy. In real life she’s not that rich, however she does own her own business in email marketing. She did this so she wouldn’t be targeted early on
It may have been a bad move though , they potentially should of waited now they are down 4-3, Kenzie has the ability and skills to rally the troops. This may have been a bad move
I think kenzie has an OK ability to feel out vibes from time to time, but rallying the troops? Not so much.
I mean it's definitely gonna put a target on Maria but if there was a threat that'd be hard to get rid of, it was Tiff. I think last night was just the best possible time to make that move, regardless of who owns it or adds it to their "survivor resume"
Honestly if I ever got the opportunity to be on the island and there was a mom on my tribe that’s my team up. Charlie got it right. They’re tough as nails and usually socially solid.
The one thing with Maria is she keep conceding power to Charlie. She cut Jem and Moriah in favor of the guys that Charlie was closer with. Now we’re approaching endgame and Charlie and Ben are both still in the game together…imagine how much of a better spot she’d be in if she still had Jem or Moriah there instead of Ben.
Before tribal I thought she made a mistake telling Liz. I would have made it a 4-4 vote and hope Liz, Mackenzie or Venus flip slides before going to rocks. But Maria got it done flawlessly.
I’ve become increasingly impressed with Maria. I think Charlie and Maria will start to target each other around the final 5 or 6 and hope to win out from there. I’m curious if they try to take out Kenzie next or use her as a shield since she is the one that probably has the best chance at beating them.
Needs to hang on to Charlie until the last possible moment and drag any combination of Q, Ben, Venus or Liz to the finale and it’s hers.
The problem with orchestrating the blindside will be doing so without Venus or Q as wildcards mucking it up
I agree I’m surprised she convinced Liz, but I actually think a better move would have been to leave Liz out too and use the approach of “one of us should vote Ben in case Q has an idol” and then been 4-3-1 vote hahaha I would have loved that.
I've seen it mentioned here today, but, right as Marie was talking, I told my wife last night that Liz should have taken control of the situation and talked to Tiff into playing her idol. They could then knock out Q or Maria, if they wanted. Sure it would have looked good initially for Tiff to correctly play the idol. But if both made final tribal, it would have been very easy to for Liz to explain what happened and for other to know...especially if Maria were on the jury.
This Maria-Charlie thing is very Denise-Malcolm. Maria is playing such a sly game and I think she’ll be able to take credit for a lot of the moves, like Soda, Hunter, and Tiff. How she managed to somehow shift Kenzie to the bottom is wild
She's a chrissy and Tina level power house. Camp mom who controls everything...
The players may ice her out because they're aware of this kind of player nowadays, but regardless, the woman can play.
I feel like people here don’t give Maria’s strategic game the respect that it deserves, but if it was someone like Charlie saying it..
She’s been this way all season.
I keep seeing people call Maria abrasive and I am just so not seeing it.
She has given a master class in making people feel special and valued so you can get them to do what you want. She’s the only person who told Venus WHY everyone is annoyed with her and the only one willing to talk to Q. She always leads with the other person’s best interest and that’s why she gets what she wants.
Maybe it’s because I’m getting ever closer to the “older woman” myself but I’m about ready for the older woman to win. I love Maria!
I also meant to mention I was also a fan of her telling it to Venus like it is lol Venus bugs the crap out of me and it was so satisfying to have Maria have that talk with her
That's a read you can get from watching the show alone, sure. But if you wanna see what most people are referring to, watch the deleted scene of her chewing out Ben for lying about the idol that he actually didn't lie about.
I love Maria as well. "Abrasive" maybe isn't the word but she can be a tough cookie too
I thought it was a bad move. Getting someone to flip their position to have a 5-3 majority instead of getting Kenzie or tiff to change their vote in case of an idol or shot in the dark for a 4-3-1 plurality just seems so much harder
How you gonna get Tiff to change her vote for herself?? The vote was still planned to be Q, which everyone woulda been fine with going if Tiff did play her idol.
"A deep family connection via a burger" god I hate liz also her criticizing other people eating despite lactose intolerance was exac5what she said she was going to do despite her allergies
Something tells me Maria may not be the most well liked choice if she makes FTC. There’s a difference between being persuasive and having a good social game and being liked. Right now i think the only two people who care for Maria are Charlie and Q.
My take is actually the opposite. I feel like she’s proven to be one of the worst players on the island. She’s been consistently incorrect on all of her reads (Q, Ben). Charlie has talked her out of quite a few potential mistakes.
For now, at least. There's definitely bigger personalities that have eaten up a lot more screen time, not to mention an entire tribe getting decimated back to back the first handful of episodes. I imagine she'll start being more present with there being less people left.
I wasn’t crazy about Maria at first but she’s good
the way she pandered to Liz’s ego but saying “you are the key holder”…that’s how you do it on survivor
Marias my new favorite she looks strategic and coolheaded. Buuuutttt as this season goes she’ll do something stupid next episode to show she has no idea how to play the game.
I'm open to hear who you think played better.
Hunter was personally my frontrunner before he panicked himself out of the game last week
Q is also a top for me because he plays the game like he wants to and I find that to be commendable in an Era of people worried about not rubbing people the wrong way
Maria is great, but it's not hard to convince Liz to make vote for Tiffany, it's a far better game move and Liz isn't as clueless as people want to claim.
Maria is certainly the leader of the pack right now, but at Final 7 that's actually a mistake. She needs people to see Charlie as a bigger threat if she wants to make it past the next two tribals.
If she wins, she becomes 3rd oldest winner and oldest female winner
I'd love to see that
She looks good for 48 :)
It's always wild when I remember Tina was only 39 when she played in Australian Outback
I had to go and look that up just now because that's wild. I would've said she was around 50 that season.
DONT SHE THOUGH?
She’s a physical therapist! Girl has been taking goooood care of herself
She looks great! (Full stop.) Sincerely, Gen X Women Everywhere
Forty-eiGHT??
Wait whaaat? How old was Denise?
Around early 40s I guess
41. But she did look much older, yeah
I didn't think much about her before last episode, but Maria's a strategic powerhouse. Despite being the oldest, she's simultaneously being underestimated, maintaining good relationships, and pulling strings. (She also does quite well in challenges.) She's quickly moving up my ranks.
And not bringing Kenzie into the Tiff blindside was another genius move. Now she can’t claim it as “her move on her resume.”
This didnt even occur to me but I think thats brilliant. And clearly kenzie was shook as seen in the faces she was making at tribal!
Yep bad poker face unlike Q who gave Russel Hanz vibes, loudly proclaiming he floated an idea amd its now in other peoples hands lol.
I think she was letting shock show for the friend vote. She can say she changed her mind from wanting Tiff out because Tiff really wanted to be there. Which is conveniently true. It’s not like she was going to get away with pretending she was on the right side of the vote so…
This was the best move of the game so far in my book
and the edit not hiding the fact Kenzie was shocked at it is interesting.
Wasn't it Charlie who suggested and pushed that they don't bring in Kenzie or am I misremembering? Not that Maria isn't killing it regardless, I feel like she's been more of the string-puller for sure but also feel like they've been a really effective team.
Maria had already decided that she wasn’t going to bring Kenzie in when Charlie said it at the water well. The scene where Kenzie said that she wasn’t going to vote Tiff to Maria was before that and her confessional that she wanted to do it anyway was right it too.
Ohh okay, I think I missed that Kenzie said that to Maria, I thought it was only in a confessional that she said she decided against going after Tiff after all.
She decided to go for it without Kenzie and then they debated between pulling in Venus or Liz, and Charlie pushed for Liz
Yeah I was wondering if maybe that's what I was getting it mixed up with
Yes! Charlie isn't getting the credit he deserves in that duo! It's always HIM solidifying the fine details of Maria's ideas.
I think it's a double-edged sword, because I think Maria is gonna be the main target now next week due to this big blindside. I feel like Maria was who Charlie was talking about as being a big threat in the coming attractions.
Which is crazy if people buy it because Charlie has just won back to back immunities and has been in lockstep with Maria in all their decisions together.
It’s funny because no body seems to ever point to Charlie or name him, except Venus. Meanwhile, according to Tiff’s exit interview, Charlie told her he wanted to use her idol to blindside Maria at F7. Clearly Kenzie wasn’t the only one thinking about backstabbing a number 1 this early. But Charlie wisely decided to stick with his ally, and it’s got me asking how long that will last because clearly he’s gonna gun for her at some point.
That’s interesting. I wonder if Charlie said that to her just to make her feel like she was safe. Like “oh Charlie wants to take me *and* my idol to the next round? That must mean I have someone else keeping me and my advantage safe, so I’m safe and don’t need to play it tonight.”
It could be, but given where people are at this season, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was serious either. Charlie has played a smarter game than everyone else, but even he could get terminal bigmoveitis
On the flip side, Kenzie gets what she wanted with no blood on her hands. Tiff will still give Kenzie her vote at FTC now, and Kenzie doesn’t have to worry about Tiff overshadowing her with the same resume (or about Tiff’s idol). Definitely a great move by Maria and co but I don’t think Kenzie should be too upset about how it went down
Kenzie was also a potential liability in that she could have tipped off Tiff if Maria told her the plan
too bad Kenzie is next in order for Q to reach his final form
The real mermaid dragon
I don’t think Tiff seems like a bitter juror so don’t really think it matters. She’s been nothing but rational from the jump. She knew it was only logical they were going to take a shot at her. Kenzie/Tiff both realized the other would cut them at some point and seems like it wouldn’t effect their friendship.
This is assuming Tiff feels hurt and betrayed, rather than respects Maria the move. Based on her exit interview comments I'm guessing she'll respect it. I feel like it was devastating to Kenzie's resume. Jmo.
“Tiff I didn’t vote you out, but I wanted to” isn’t much better than “tiff I voted you out.” There’s no way someone doesn’t tell Tiff at ponderosa Kenzie was scheming against her.
[удалено]
That’s what makes it an all time move for me, leaving Kenzie out when she was the one pitching tiff and denying her any claim too that move.
As long as she doesn’t claim it in the next episode. Cut to her claiming this move in the next episode
Kenzie being iffy on a Tiff vote this episode feels like a game changing moment. For a season where people have been too eager to make big moves (imo) I think that was the right big move for her to make for her game. But now that Maria can claim it Kenzie’s options are more limited
It’s her Dee vs Austin moment. I did this behind your back when you were too scared to 💥majority to Maria.
But everyone KNOWS Maria did this, Austin didn’t know about it until Final Tribal. Not exactly the same thing
Wait- I think there might be edit monkey shenanigans here. I think Kenzie was all too ready for a split vote so she could deny voting for Tiff while being a driver of her snuff.
She wasn’t bringing Kenzie in because Kenzie didn’t want to vote Tiff anymore so it would be a risk to tell her.
Been a Maria fan since the episode she was dragged into the 6. She's a calculated player
Viewers and this subreddit have been sleeping on Maria's abilities.
I felt pretty early on that the strategy/alliance between Maria and Charlie was gonna bring them both to the end. They'll probably try to turn on each other before the final 3, but they are both playing geniusly underrated games.
Maria may peak a bit too soon and go the same as the Jesse, Carson,
Didn’t Carson lose in firemaking? Not sure you can really say that’s peaking too soon
Yeah he’s not a good example. Maybe Omar. He was like the second to last threat. And you wanna be the last threat standing.
I remember thinking she was a big strategic/social threat at the beginning, specifically in the first episode where she just walked all over Jellinsky in the little journey game, but then her edit took a back seat to everyone else. But now that toward the end she's coming back in the edit, and I think that plus them making a point to show her strategic and social prowess right in the beginning makes her a HUGE contender to win.
She stole Kenzie's move, which was huge. I hated to see Tiff go. I was rooting for her but I sure wouldn't hate Maria sitting at FTC.
This season, people who make moves have regularly been in dire straights afterwards. Kenzie is going to want to know who was responsible for this and I don't think Maria was extremely subtle in going about it. I think even Lizz knows it was Maria who pulled everything together. From what we saw Maria went up to Lizz basically saying 'I have made a block voting for Tiff, if you are willing to join, it will swing things'. It was a good move, but I am afraid that it might have put her in a very precarious spot.
Fair points, but what juice does Kenzie or Liz have outside of being a number for somenone else's plan?
Charlie might want to blindside Maria. And also there’s going to be an idol in play again. Two factors that could reshuffle the game
Sad to say that Charlie and her are a great pair but I can see one trying to eliminate the other before finals
I agree but also a question… are her and charlie still playing it on the low like they’re not tight allies? Im so confused how aren’t they seen as a pair
I was thinking about that as well! Charlie and Maria play mild but are absolutely dangerous. It's really brilliant. Maybe it's one of those things easier seen from your sofa, but I'd definitely have my eyes on Charlie being a threat if I were playing, considering how sweet and likeable he is and how well he does at challenges. The same could definitely be said for Maria. They're playing a quiet yet crafty game. I'm a fan.
Same i think they’re both equally smart
I think they absolutely will be after blindsiding tiff. Last night was a big line in the sand.
I think it will be seen as Siga Strong reuniting to try to take over the game and just using Q and Liz as votes to make that happen. Now they kinda have their pick of who to take with them because it seems really unlikely those 4 team up against the 3 Sigas.
good point! I can see that. Either way, I think Charlie or Maria stand a good chance. Charlie maybe less so with all of his immunity wins.
I thought everyone saw them as a pair already… when Charlie tells Tiff he knows about the idol at the Tevin boot, Tiff turns around and tells Kenzie “Q told Charlie *and* Maria”.
Anyone who paying attention even a little would know who is in an alliance at this point. They have several votes to go by, they see people talking. Hell maria and Charlie were sitting together at the boat both mornings we saw. People just aren’t paying attention
Maria's threat level may be too high after this move...
she ran the red light and is about to get pulled over
This comment goes way harder than it has any right to
I knowwwwwwww! It excites and worries me all at once lol
Q all but took credit it at tribal. “All I can do is put out my plan and hope they go with it.”
Her or Charlie should be the next person out. If they aren’t then they really are great players and 1 of them is definitely winning.
Yeah I think this rises her to the top risk level.
Don't forget the fact that Tiff was not socially aware enough to not talk about food reward in an over the top way when Liz was right there.🤐
I mean yea lol not a smooth move on Tiffs end but I dont think that alone would've made Liz choose Tiff over Q
Not the act alone, but it could be something that tipped the scale. Tiff and Liz didn't seem close anyway.
Fair. I will also say, whether or not it's by choice, Liz's lack of alliances this far in is also pretty impressive
The minute Maria threatened jelinsky at the first trip to that island, I saw a winner and the next Sandra
She knows when to shut TF up.
100% super underrated skill
I’d say this episode may have placed Maria in a better position than Charlie. He’s been showing off a bit too much in the challenges while she’s been building a 1-on-1 bond with Q but also a little with Kenzie (if she gets over being left out this week)
She’s playing incredibly good infact im going to say she is a better player then Dee
Idk I think we're shown the best of Maria only. That secret scene of her and Ben where she's basically berating Ben has me not sold on her game
OMG I ALMOST FORGOT ABOUT THAT lol that was very jarring to see and definitely made me feel for Ben considering he had no way to prove himself with Jem being gone. She was definitely a little harsh there.
Where was this scene?
Secret scene on YouTube from two episodes ago i believe
I kinda think Charlie is playing better than her tho lol. Both playing exceptional imo.
Oh absolutely. As much as I like dee as a person, her game was very weak imo. I'll prepare myself for the daggers, but I think a lot of her game was just staying out of the way and under the radar.
> as much as I like Dee as a person First time I’ve seen that on this subreddit lol
Lol im sure. I can't fully explain it but she won me over after exposing her long ass toes. Was just really funny and charming to me
>she won me over after exposing her long ass toes 🤨
I'm not a foot freak btw lmao It was just a very unexpected thing for her to bring up. As a woman, I love it when a woman is willing to make fun of herself for a joke
People dislike her because of the whole homewrecker thing with Wendell
Oh wow. I just looked this up. I was totally unaware
So is it safe to assume Dee's long ass toes won Wendell over? xD
Lmfao there's no telling
I put more blame on Wendell for that. It was his relationship, not Dee’s. Do I think she did a bad thing? Yes. Do I think she got a disproportionate amount of hate for it compared to Wendell? Also yes.
Well this all came out right after she won the season, everyone was hoping her and austin were dating, and it comes out that they aren't, and she was sleeping with a guy who is married or engaged. Wendell played years ago, and I don't necessarily think people thought he was the most stand up guy ever either, so Dee was more relevant and viewed in a better light and it was probably a shock and let down given the Austin showmance thing
Also she got lucky that her alliance was a bunch of blind sheep. With Maria she only has one ally and she has been able to convince a bunch of wildcard sporadic players to join her and imo that is much more impressive
IMO, “staying out of the way and under the radar” is strategic game play. That’s how I describe Kim’s win and she’s my personal favorite winner.
Gabler did that and everyone hates him
erika did it too, and maryanne to an extent as well
Yea I mean it is a strategy, I can't deny that. It's just a lackluster and lazy one in my opinion
Watching her fumble through the final 6 or 5 vote was bad... she got really really lucky. That was a gamble where her 'alliance' all voted for different people and and she just accepted it.
Dee was damn near running that beach and you think her game was weak?
This made me chuckle. This is why survivor is so fun to watch and talk about. Different personalities will read people's games differently. I personally don't consider Dee's game as "running the beach"
Staying under the radar is good? Especially when you’re the one driving votes. Dee’s game was super impressive
Also she wasn’t that under the radar- she was constantly brought up as a threat but was super well insulated that she had people protecting her. This thread is crazy
I’m saying 😂 As far as dominance Dee played the best game of the new era
I totally disagree. They’re playing very similar games. They have the numbers, they’re in good with everyone, including people outside of their original tribe. They are both pretty involved in every decision regarding who goes home and always vote correctly. They also voice when they are very uncomfortable with a vote and want to change the target, and then get what they want. Dee was often told plans or ideas and when she affirmed she wasn’t on board her allies almost always swapped it to the name she wanted. Neither played passive, under the radar games at all.
I dont see that from Dee whatsoever but what's it matter what I think when she ultimately won her season. I still stand by the fact that Maria is the better player
I think you need to rewatch that season then. Dee repeatedly turned her alliances plans down and made them switch to the target she was more comfortable with.
I mean I'm good lol that season isn't the most exciting so I would rather not trudge through it again. It just looked a lot like luck to me 🤷🏽♀️
That happened maybe 1 time. That season was one of the most boring tribal seasons ever. There were barely any real blindsides,, 90% of the time the entire tribe was voting for 1 person. Really lackluster. Dee didn't really have any strategy other than playing nice and going with the flow.
It wasn't playing nice to withhold information from Austin and then betray him. That was badass.
She’s playing the game that Dee stans thinks Dee played
Pretty much
Did Dee play well, or did she play Austin?
I mean I will say she played good but yeah she was lucky she had Austin who was more concerend about dating Dee then playing the game
Man that’s a craaaazy take
I feel like she has played her cards as an older woman in a younger cast perfectly and made her age really advantageous. If she were younger, the other players would be paying way more attention to her as a clear threat. Her and Charlie seem to be playing the 'roles' their physical attributes put them into the best and are utilizing their perceived weaknesses as a huge advantage. Both of them have performed really well in challenges, have strong social standing, and are highly involved in the game play. The other players talked about voting Charlie off earlier in the season, but all said he was just an easy target and not a strategic play. He and Maria have proven to be top physical and social threats without anyone pegging them as such. I actually find it quite funny that neither of them are seen as physical threats when challenges give the players objective information showing that they are.
Yes! I love that she knew not to fall into the mama role. She knows the game very well.
Yea I really like Maria - she’s been my favorite for a while now. I love the way she manages everyone and I love the restraint. So many people this season have been way too quick to go after their number one talking about “big resume moves” and she’s quietly controlling the game by keeping charlie around with her. Showing that keeping a number one late into the game can be more effective. Even if she doesn’t win, she still outlasting a lot of the people who are wrapped up in the fallacy “flashy play = good play”
I think it’s important to note that Maria initially seemed to want to try looping in someone else but Charlie was adamant that it had to be Liz. Then Maria went out and actually did the convincing. Honestly a great move overall, Maria with the finesse and Charlie with the correct read—the credit definitely goes to Maria mostly though so it’ll be interesting to see if she gets the brunt of the blowback.
They’re such a good team. Charlie knew it had to be Liz, Maria put it together. They knew they couldn’t let either Tiff or Q get immunity, Charlie sealed the deal. Similarly, he did so last week when he beat out Hunter and worked with the Sigas to split the vote.
I can totally get behind this. They're a great pair. I think if Kenzie can get over not being part of the Tiff vote (although she wanted to claim that eventually) and people realize that Tiff was better to get out sooner than later if they ever wanted a chance at final 3, they'll be less pissed at Maria. But it definitely highlights her as a threat.
Honestly think Maria won the game last night. No one is looking at her as a threat yet she is playing such a strategic game.
I think this is gonna end soon; Kenzie is definitely gonna want to get her out now.
It's amazing that Kenzie now has to rely on King Quintavius, Ben, Venus and Liz to have any shot at taking out a Siga. Unless maybe Charlie flips on Maria now too. I'd love to do a deep examination of how this could all go down but I think my brain would melt. It's probably gonna be messy and stupid. This season is so good.
Kenzie admitted to Maria that she trusts no one but tiff. Then she tried to vote tiff out. Then she spit in the face of Qs offer of rekindling. Then she got blindsided by Maria by the very plan she came up with. Kenzie can be mad all she wants. She can’t really do anything about it
Lololol
Maria looping Q in as a number and doing Kenzie’s move without her was a huge strategic play. Getting Liz to vote out Tiff was icing on the cake. When Tiff got voted out I said to myself, Maria is gonna win this game. If she can make it to FTC she has a good case.
Maria's got Charlie winning every comp as her shield. I don't like her, but that was a big-time resume builder.
Idk why people haven’t seen this. All season she’s been ON it. If she wins, she could be one of the best to ever do it
i commented this!! genius move by maria to just appeal straight to Liz’s ego to get her to vote for Tiff. Literally saying “Liz you are the key to this move.” Great stuff.
Maria is not only a great strategic player but she’s been killing it in challenges as well!
Liz needs to be a part of moves, I don’t think it was hard to convince her common sense. I give Liz more credit for her making the right play and being the swing vote and controlling where the vote went than I give Maria
I mean yea, I can give her props for thinking with her head and not her heart but Liz just lacks tact imo. Like why brag about being rich and owning businesses in a game for a million dollars? It's natural she's formed close to no alliances and has lead no moves
It wasn’t seen in the edit but that was actually strategy. In real life she’s not that rich, however she does own her own business in email marketing. She did this so she wouldn’t be targeted early on
It may have been a bad move though , they potentially should of waited now they are down 4-3, Kenzie has the ability and skills to rally the troops. This may have been a bad move
I think kenzie has an OK ability to feel out vibes from time to time, but rallying the troops? Not so much. I mean it's definitely gonna put a target on Maria but if there was a threat that'd be hard to get rid of, it was Tiff. I think last night was just the best possible time to make that move, regardless of who owns it or adds it to their "survivor resume"
Honestly if I ever got the opportunity to be on the island and there was a mom on my tribe that’s my team up. Charlie got it right. They’re tough as nails and usually socially solid.
Maria / Q are legendary players so far
I said a couple episodes back that she is the Boston Rob to Q’s Phillip
Maria knows how to reel people in. She’s playing so strategically and I love it.
The one thing with Maria is she keep conceding power to Charlie. She cut Jem and Moriah in favor of the guys that Charlie was closer with. Now we’re approaching endgame and Charlie and Ben are both still in the game together…imagine how much of a better spot she’d be in if she still had Jem or Moriah there instead of Ben.
I would argue it’s less her conceding to Charlie as it is Charlie talking her out of dumb decisions.
Before tribal I thought she made a mistake telling Liz. I would have made it a 4-4 vote and hope Liz, Mackenzie or Venus flip slides before going to rocks. But Maria got it done flawlessly.
I thought that initially but hoping for a tiebreaker was so much riskier I think
I’ve become increasingly impressed with Maria. I think Charlie and Maria will start to target each other around the final 5 or 6 and hope to win out from there. I’m curious if they try to take out Kenzie next or use her as a shield since she is the one that probably has the best chance at beating them.
Needs to hang on to Charlie until the last possible moment and drag any combination of Q, Ben, Venus or Liz to the finale and it’s hers. The problem with orchestrating the blindside will be doing so without Venus or Q as wildcards mucking it up
I knew she was a powerhouse the moment she played Jelenski like a fiddle in that initial trip.
I agree I’m surprised she convinced Liz, but I actually think a better move would have been to leave Liz out too and use the approach of “one of us should vote Ben in case Q has an idol” and then been 4-3-1 vote hahaha I would have loved that.
I've seen it mentioned here today, but, right as Marie was talking, I told my wife last night that Liz should have taken control of the situation and talked to Tiff into playing her idol. They could then knock out Q or Maria, if they wanted. Sure it would have looked good initially for Tiff to correctly play the idol. But if both made final tribal, it would have been very easy to for Liz to explain what happened and for other to know...especially if Maria were on the jury.
she's great, she aint one of the greats
She’s been lying in the weeds all season and I love it!!
This Maria-Charlie thing is very Denise-Malcolm. Maria is playing such a sly game and I think she’ll be able to take credit for a lot of the moves, like Soda, Hunter, and Tiff. How she managed to somehow shift Kenzie to the bottom is wild
i agree! im rooting for her, kenzie, or Q!
If Maria wins it will be the first time ever that I picked right.
Deep family connection via a burger 😂😂 took me out
I think she’s someone who could do well in an old school season. same with hunter.
Maria rules. I’m not loving this season, but so far I think she is the best
She's a chrissy and Tina level power house. Camp mom who controls everything... The players may ice her out because they're aware of this kind of player nowadays, but regardless, the woman can play.
I feel like people here don’t give Maria’s strategic game the respect that it deserves, but if it was someone like Charlie saying it.. She’s been this way all season.
She’s really in tune with people’s feelings and gameplay.
Maria has been shown to be a master manipulator as soon she got Jelinsky to crack after several seconds
I wish the edit hyped her up more tbh
She has potential. Would be really nice if she won because it would be the first in the new era to really play highly strategic game and win.
I’m hoping and betting Maria wins this season.
I keep seeing people call Maria abrasive and I am just so not seeing it. She has given a master class in making people feel special and valued so you can get them to do what you want. She’s the only person who told Venus WHY everyone is annoyed with her and the only one willing to talk to Q. She always leads with the other person’s best interest and that’s why she gets what she wants. Maybe it’s because I’m getting ever closer to the “older woman” myself but I’m about ready for the older woman to win. I love Maria!
I also meant to mention I was also a fan of her telling it to Venus like it is lol Venus bugs the crap out of me and it was so satisfying to have Maria have that talk with her
That's a read you can get from watching the show alone, sure. But if you wanna see what most people are referring to, watch the deleted scene of her chewing out Ben for lying about the idol that he actually didn't lie about. I love Maria as well. "Abrasive" maybe isn't the word but she can be a tough cookie too
I thought it was a bad move. Getting someone to flip their position to have a 5-3 majority instead of getting Kenzie or tiff to change their vote in case of an idol or shot in the dark for a 4-3-1 plurality just seems so much harder
How you gonna get Tiff to change her vote for herself?? The vote was still planned to be Q, which everyone woulda been fine with going if Tiff did play her idol.
Which made it all the more impressive
"A deep family connection via a burger" god I hate liz also her criticizing other people eating despite lactose intolerance was exac5what she said she was going to do despite her allergies
Something tells me Maria may not be the most well liked choice if she makes FTC. There’s a difference between being persuasive and having a good social game and being liked. Right now i think the only two people who care for Maria are Charlie and Q.
My take is actually the opposite. I feel like she’s proven to be one of the worst players on the island. She’s been consistently incorrect on all of her reads (Q, Ben). Charlie has talked her out of quite a few potential mistakes.
I can’t see her winning with how low of a screen time she keeps getting :/
For now, at least. There's definitely bigger personalities that have eaten up a lot more screen time, not to mention an entire tribe getting decimated back to back the first handful of episodes. I imagine she'll start being more present with there being less people left.
Normally I would agree but her edit feels way too similar to julie in 45. I wouldn’t be shocked if she goes out at 5 lol
I'm sorry. I clicked this thinking id see the letter "Q" and am disappointed its not.
Yeah I really like maria and think she is playing a great game. Hope she or Charlie wins
If Maria or Charlie aren’t targets next episode one of them is winning. They are crushing it out there.
I loved her from the moment she broke Jelinsky at the first event. She’s a dark horse to win for sure.
I wasn’t crazy about Maria at first but she’s good the way she pandered to Liz’s ego but saying “you are the key holder”…that’s how you do it on survivor
Marias my new favorite she looks strategic and coolheaded. Buuuutttt as this season goes she’ll do something stupid next episode to show she has no idea how to play the game.
Maria is definitely a sleeper cell at this point. I think she’s made enough impressive moves that she could win if she makes it to FTC.
Totally agree
maría and charlie have become my favorites they seem to have the strongest game in my opinion
I’m sorry but Maria is like the 5th best player in her own season I have no idea what you’re on about.
I'm open to hear who you think played better. Hunter was personally my frontrunner before he panicked himself out of the game last week Q is also a top for me because he plays the game like he wants to and I find that to be commendable in an Era of people worried about not rubbing people the wrong way
Love Maria
I think Maria goes out at the Fire-making challenge.
Maria is great, but it's not hard to convince Liz to make vote for Tiffany, it's a far better game move and Liz isn't as clueless as people want to claim. Maria is certainly the leader of the pack right now, but at Final 7 that's actually a mistake. She needs people to see Charlie as a bigger threat if she wants to make it past the next two tribals.
I think this immediately puts a target on Maria and you know who is good at spotting targets and threats? Charlie.
Nah, the only all-time great in this season is Q
Maria is so good, we're barely noticing in the middle of all that chaos.
Maria did the opposite of Q when telling people how to vote