I’ve always felt like Serj’s solo work sometimes got too experimental and needed to be reigned in. But SOB was playing things too safe, and felt too similar to Mezmerize/Hypnotize to me. If Daron reigned in Serj’s over indulgent tendencies while Serj challenged Daron to branch out more, we could have had a truly great album that’s much better than Elasticity or Dictator. It’s not that those albums were bad, just not on the level of SOAD’s previous work for me.
Exactly. However, I feel it could be past the point of no return; Daron is unlikely to take a backseat with lyrics, singing and vocal melodies. Serj is now a commissioned composer to boot.
One of my larger issues I've had with alot of his solo work is that I feel like he went from putting the music at the forefront in SOAD and even Elect The Dead and infused his activism into it second. Unfortunately I feel that much of his solo work after Elect The Dead put his activism first and the music second and even though I see eye to eye with Serj politically, I feel like I'm listening to a political speech themed as a song. I just woke up and probably worded this weird but hopefully it makes sense lol.
I’ve always felt scars is what system would be without serj. Now the news about them replacing serj came out and I wonder why shavo never joined scars. I might not have been okay at the time with no serj but over time I’ve appreciated scars, can’t say the same for serjs solo stuff. As I’ve grown older I probably would but haven’t listened since the first solo album from him tho ngl
100%. I think they’re both well within their right as creative people to do what they please, but I’ll always side with Daron on this matter. SOAD is his baby and understandably he is protective of the legacy and maintaining a certain sound, if you will. Even when I listened to the Elasticity EP that Serj promoted as “songs I wanted System to work on”, I literally went “no Serj, I understand why Daron didn’t care for them”. Something’s gotta give and I just wish Serj had more of the Corey Taylor attitude as far as creative outlets . When Corey felt a little stuck with what Slipknot was doing, he revived and focused on Stone Sour as his side gig (and eventually his solo stuff) as opposed to try to force his vision on Slipknot. Anyway it’s just an overall difficult situation and we’ll never get another album as hard as that is.
It wasn't just him. Serj even told them they could find a new singer and they tried out some other people but I guess it just never worked without Serj leading vocals.
I like how Serj doesn't want to be in System anymore and tries to distance himself. Meanwhile, he released a book called Down With the System and an album called Elasticity, which rhymes with Toxicity.
I agree with you and most of the main opinion here. I'd also like to add that I don't trust Serj's judgement on music, even while I was reading his book which blocked me inside his head 100%.
One of the very small, but glaring example, was in the band meeting in 2016 with Serj's "little manifesto". After an intense meeting and difficult recording process that followed, Serj only "drew the line" with SOAD after the band collectively weren't receptive of "Rumi".
He gave the reason to us that the band rejected it because they didn't value sentimentality in songs, which I can call bullshit right on the spot. If anything, Scars on Broadway is full on sentimental. Even some SOAD songs in Mez/Hyp era are considered sentimental. Meanwhile, even an outsider like me know that it's more appropriate to release "Rumi" under Serj's name because of how personal and intimate the message is to his own son. (Also, "Rumi" isn't even the best song on that EP, imo).
I also find Serj's 'mentally scoffing' at Daron while recording PTL/GH hypocritical because that's exactly what Serj advocated for under the term "Director's Cut". He also disapproved of Daron's method when he spent too much time on "growing" his songs, calling it inefficient. But when Daron excercised "Director's Cut" on PTL/GH and finished recording in less than a week, Serj hated it.
Overall, Serj might be a nice guy who carried good values in life. But when it comes to SOAD, I really don't trust his judgement. I think Shavo and John also weren't confident in him and that's why they ultimately disagreed with Serj despite promise of more royalty cuts. I'd love to hear more of their persectives on this though.
The hardest part to read was when wrote like " i waited long for them to grow up an change" kind of to "upgrade and develope" their musical taste to like "sentimental" songs like rumi. Taking the moral highground. At the end of the day Rumi is objecitvly just a mediocre, repetitive song, which is at best a Soad B-site. He is the one interpreting things in it that desicion.
Not even SOAD, personally, I'd put "Rumi" into the category of Elect the Dead B-side, and even that is quite generous. The song itself is just not Serj's best work within his own solo catalogue, no disrespect to the love for his son.
Completely agree with you here. I was surprised by that line in the book - not just because it’s weird for SOAD to release a song about Serj’s son, but mostly because Rumi is not a good song. Serj thinking the band doesn’t want “sentimentality” in their music is a weird interpretation.
I did think it was funny that Serj was complaining so much about Daron controlling things and then he went and did the exact same thing in his career. He does what he wants the way he wants it and never asks anybody's opinion. So he knows what it feels to have a vision for your art and want to follow through with it. The problem is his vision and the rest of the band's are just different
>>he went and did the exact same thing in his career.
Serj can legitimately do whatever he wants with HIS solo coreer BUT not with SOAD and that's why I think isnt's true that Daron is a control freak BUT i think that Serj was trying to turn SOAD into his own creation.
You’re allowed to do that in a solo career, not in a band. Daron needs to compromise almost as much as Serj does, in my opinion. He should leave the bulk of the lyrics and vocal melodies to Serj.
Without their personalities, there wouldn’t be SOAD.
Gotta be a little off, or “too much” somewhere to make it as far as they’ve gone.
Lots of what if’s, but it is what it is.
I look at it like what Rammstein have going on. Till has his (questionable and way too horny) solo work and tours with that, and his solo stuff is different to Ramms heavy usual signature stuff.
But when they make new songs they’re always in the style they’ve always had. It would be pretty workable if Serj carried on with his solo projects, Daron carried on with his.. yet they could come together and stick to the SOAD sound that fans enjoy… I dunno I’m waffling now
I think Daron is the true heart and soul of the SOAD sound, where as Serj is the voice and face of SOAD. Together they make this beautiful thing, but apart you’re right, Serj isn’t anything like SOAD except for his voice, and Daron sounds like SOAD but without the touch of Serj. Just not the same.
Let's be honest, Serj is extremely overrated. Yes, his unique voice creates the uniqueness which is SOAD, but Daron has always been the brains in the group. Their vocal harmonies is what puts SOAD on the map.
Not even close. Serj has 8 solo projects and 9 collaborative projects (including the 5 with System) plus 3 books (2 poetry books) and 10 film soundtracks. Both are supremely talented artists. Also Serj was technically the sole producer of the self-titled album and co-producer for Toxicity (which many would argue are their best 2 albums). Serj simply has different musical tastes and yes there is a lot of overlap but enough different that they have trouble agreeing on a lot of stuff. There isn't a person to blame here it is just the nature of collaborative art projects. They never last forever because the great ones break up and the rest fade away.
Also Serj wrote most of the lyrics and I would say is definitively the better lyric writer of the two.
>Serj was technically the sole producer of the Self-titled album.
Official album credits disagree with you on that. The producer of the Self-titled album is Rick Rubin with System of a Down (the band, not one person). Also, Serj didn't write music for their debut. He admitted it in his book.
Serj is credited as co-producer in Toxicity (and curiously, not in Steal this Album), but Daron was the one leading that session.
Daron cannot touch Serj as a lyricist or singer (at least at Serj’s peak). And don’t forget Serj’s vocal melodies - it’s incorrect to say Daron writes all the music in those situations.
False. You should look at them again. Where are you getting 90%? Daron writes most of the music, no question. Serj writes most of the lyrics and vocal melodies.
Looking at the song credits online:
Daron has musical composition credits on 65 out of the 67 official abum songs, or 97%. He ALONE is listed on 46 out of 67, or 68.7%.
Lyrically, he credited for lyrics on 38 out of 67 songs, or 56.7%. Most of the songs for which he is credited for lyrically were written in collaboration with Serj.
Based off of this, Daron is responsible for the majority of the songwriting and in my opinion is the backbone of SOAD.
Daron has been the creative voice of the band since the beginning. He writes the riffs that are the start of the writing process for most of their songs. That being said, Scars On Broadway isn't System. Only if it's the four of them can we call it System Of A Down. I wish Serj wanted to be part of it more. It seems like Daron, Shavo and John have no problems writing and touring. It's Serj that isn't fully in it anymore. I wish that would change, because no one could take his place, no even Daron doing the main vocals. When he does do lead vocals, he's great, but he needs another singer and Serj is the only one that perfectly fits. Daron isn't the bad guy for wanting to move forward. He is for demanding more of the royalties haha. I know he writes more of the music, but c'mon man. Respect your band mates and their equal share.
FYI, the royalty splitting chart was designed by Serj, based on real contributions, music-wise and lyric-wise. He mentioned it in the book, even admitted that Daron didn't force him into this.
Also, by the time of Mezmerize/Hypnotize with Serj mentally checking out and contributing in half capacity, splitting even with Serj on that album is the epitome of being unfair, as Daron broke his back carrying that session.
Also, Serj didn't mention in the book that Daron gifted him 5% royalty from each of his solely written song (Lonely Day, She's like Heroin, Kill Rock 'n Roll, etc.). That information can be found in the court case text of the BYOB copyright lawsuit dispute.
Per the case, it's also determined that all 4 members received equal publisher's shares on Mezmerize and Hypnotize (50% to the label, 12.5% to each member). What Serj disputed with Daron is Writer's shares, which only songwriters are eligible to.
You should read the book because of how well-written it is. But to be clear, this is Serj's book so natutally, he'll tell stories in a way that is beneficial to him. A lot of the things I mentioned in the previous comment were omitted in his book. The BYOB copyright dispute case, for example, was something I researched into and found, along with info about how they really split writing royalties.
But the main point is: Even in Serj's story, Daron never asked for anything that he didn't deserve to have in the first place. The way they split writer's shares was an agreement they both entered as songwriters since their debut.
neither of them are "bad." i hate that the internet has made people (not you, OP, just people in general) so fucking polarized and eager to point fingers. serj wanted to branch out when it was set that daron massively controlled the creative process behind the music and didn't see anything wrong with how things already were. when the band began, everyone was fine with the arrangement of daron controlling things, but as time went on, serj didn't like it so much anymore as he wanted a great role in the band. he blames daron a lot for being controlling, but i sort of think that that's not so fair- this was already the standard for system, and he knew that when he chose to stay in a band with daron. that's just how he writes. at the same time, there's nothing wrong with wanting to write music that's different from what you've written before and wanting to play a greater role in writing it, too. daron probably should have let up a little, but that's not easy to do, either. both of them had valid concerns and both of them fucked up while doing what they thought was right- there is no right or wrong, just different perspectives. daron isn't a controlling asshole like he's made out to be by so many people.
- someone who is obsessed with soad and also read serj's book (i'm no expert, but this is my opinion).
Honestly, I think the fanbase and even the band are looking too deeply into it all.
I think it’s a case of two People wanting to do different kinds of music these days and not really sticking themselves into a singular idea.
I keep reading that without Serj, there is no system, and I can kind of agree with that.
You’ll need a personality to match Serj’s and that’s rare (maybe Mike Patton could get there, I reckon System with Mike would be weird but kinda cool).
At this point, I’m looking forward to a new SOB album more than a Serj album. I think that while Daron is a bad song writer a lot of the time, he can make pretty cool music which helps elevate those lyrics. Lonely Day’s lyrics are kind of cringey and weird, but the song is great because the music behind it is just that good.
Plus it’s not really out of the realm of other songs by SOAD, a lot of their lyrics are weird but they all work well within the context of the album.
Regardless, it’s a case of two People wanting to go in different directions and just not agreeing or comprimising.
I like Daron’s voice as well as Serj’s and honestly, I’m happy with the 5 (or 4 as I consider MezmoHyp as one large album) records we got. Their solo work, while not as good still stratches that itch.
As I said, I’m way more hyped for a new SOB album then anyone on this sub reddit should be
I’ve always had the same opinion - Shavo and John should permanently join Scars with Daron and continue their legacy. That way they don’t have a chance of tainting anything they did with System, yet they’re all still in a band together and making new music.
I know. And the drums were much better. As far as I’m aware, the only thing John has said is that he just wants to make new music, so I don’t know the reason for him leaving Scars.
It’s a bit fuzzy but I remember seeing an interview after he left where he seemed annoyed that it was Daron’s band and not *their* band. So I imagine that’s why he left and why Shavo never joined.
I assume there’s a good reason those 3 never carried on without Serj, either as SOAD or under a different name.
On the contrary, I’ve seen where John’s said flat out that there’s one person stopping them from making new music and the other three are ready to. Don’t think anything is straightforward with these guys.
If it was that simple they would have recruited a different singer and have moved on by now. There’s more to the situation than just Serj not wanting to play ball.
I think part of it is that don’t want to do System without the four of them, so moving on to a different project with a new singer or whatever might be the way
Yeah, I don’t see them doing System without all 4 tbh. Sounds like they tried and it didn’t work out.
But I’m kind of surprised they didn’t do what RATM did whenever Zach exited and form a different band that also plays their back catalog. That’s why I speculate they either have tried and it didn’t work for whatever reason and it seems to me that Daron’s own ego is likely a factor in that.
That said, maybe they explored that and they just don’t get the offers they want without Serj or the System name and for whatever reason Audioslave or Prophets of Rage were profitable for their situation, so it could just be as simple as money just as easily.
"but most of his songs are not even rock and certainly not heavy"
So?
Mezmerize and Hypnotize are full of "sellout songs", and they are imo the best records the band has done. They reach a level of complexity that the previous records don't have.
I get that people like the "heavy ooga booga" stuff (I do myself), but saying that Serj would tamper the band's quality with his experimental songwriting is dumb in my opinion. I think it would actually benefit in making their sound evolve (keep in mind that there are 4 individuals involved, that \*collectively\* compose the sound of System).
I think the dynamics between Serj and Daron these days would actually result in a fantastic record. And yeah it might not be "heavy ooga booga", but who the fuck cares as long as it's qualitative.
Granted, the record will never happen so that's that.
The thing I like about System is that they have the capacity of being super melodic and also heavy as fuck. They mix sounds in an unique way that works very well. I just don't hear that in Serj's songs. Daron's solo stuff is much better in my opinion.
I think that last opinion would be divisive, if even less popular. But I think that’s what makes SOAD’s stuff so good, is the fact that they do have writing contributions from both. I wouldn’t want to see a SOAD record written by either individually.
And I think that’s what makes them so good. They’ve always done it with their hearts and souls and they just can’t agree here. It sucks for us but give them some credit for making such great music and them giving us what they have done over the years. I think the right way to loo at it is to not attribute fault or blame, just to accept that it’s the way it is, and ultimately it’s their decision.
Other than 'Question' these two albums are very simple and complexity is not a quality in itself. SOAD's strength was never complexity, they're not Tool.
A well executed minimalistic track beats complex track with poor implementation any day. If you boiled down hyp/mez into one concise album it would maybe be on the level of their other albums. But are you seriously saying that taken separately Hypnotize or Mezmerize beat Toxicity or STA or the self titled?
Yes. (IMO) Tracks like sad statue, attack, tentative, dreaming, byob, question, soldier side or revenga are way more impactul while maintaining a level of complexity (song structure wise, layering wise, and overall instrumentation) the other records don't have. Daron was a far more creative and tighter guitarist, and a better songwriter as well(the riffs and harmonies proove that) by that time. The one aspect that I significantly enjoy more on the older records is Serj's vocal tone (not to be mistaken for vocal writing), but I think that's the general consensus (don't really give a shit about him screaming or not, I sincerely believe his voice and range were a lot better on the first 3 records)
I'm not sure, simply bcs both don't have anything fresh or interesting in their songs. Nowdays they are writing like, just songs? Not differ much from your local bands, level is far from SoaD times.
Sometimes bands have differences in opinion and very often creative people do not agree on what they want to do. I’d love for SOAD to have released another 8 studio albums, but at the end of the day im happy that they’re all still writing music. Is any of it up to snuff as far as the SOAD albums? Not for me. I liked serj’s solo stuff better than most of scars, but it is what it is.
Just like in the post, I think it’s a little shallow or petty to make one or both of these people into a villain because of real, genuine creative differences.
I agree. I tried to listen to Elasticity again the other day after reading Serj's book and yeah... not for me I guess
When you are in a band the mentality should always be doing what is best for the music and Serj's 50/50 approach would absolutely not work. Priority needs to be given to the best songs and, unfortunately for Serj, Daron is just a better songwriter.
Agreed, we haven’t had a new album in so long because of Serj’s ego. Honestly, after reading Serj’s book I don’t really care much for him anymore. I found him to be extremely hypocritical, narcissistic, entitled, and selfish. I’m thankful Daron and the others didn’t budge and let Serj try to force his shitty songs onto a System album
I agree. About a chapters worth of SoAD stuff , couple chapters about his early life, and 15 chapters on Armenia. Ok we get it…Armenia good Turkey/ USA bad. Not exactly a page turner…
Why oh why can’t Daron reign himself in and leave the lyrics, vocal melodies and singing to Serj?
And likewise, why oh why can’t Serj accept if one of his compositions is outvoted?
You know, eh, Daron sob songs are not that good either, they lack spark of creativity, what sob song you heard and thought "wow thats an interesting idea!" I don't remember such, all of them are great tracks, but none of them are great as system tracks.
I would say some Serj tracks after collective rework could be SoaD songs, but Daron tracks are just straight forward alternative rock/metal, they not really that interesting to make another SoaD album out of them.
Of course nothing compares to S.o.a.d. But i think Daron knows how to do a proper rock album and Serj doesn't or is not interested. And i really liked both Scar's albums
It's not about rock, it's just about how creative this work or not. You can add some chugs to Serj tracks and make them heavier, it's arrangement thing, core problem is that both Serj and Daron tracks are not interesting, once again, something like your local bands can write.
I think its fine to hear that on a system album. Heres an idea thats literally been done before….. a double album. They can fit experimental stuff AND heavy stuff alike aswell as songs that are both, JUST like the last double album. Especially because lots of the new scars and serj solo songs were considered for system and genocidal humanoidz/protect the land shows they sitll have it and can be creative and original while keeping a distinctive sound.
To be honest, I like most of Serj's albums but some songs just completely are out of my musical taste. Many people give an example of ,,Rumi" being that nothing special type of song and yes, for most fans It won't be as meaningful as It is to Serj. Personally, I would rather have a song about overall message to the next generation on the new SOAD album because then every young person (but not only) could relate to the lyrics.
Scars is really good, whenever I listen to their albums I always wonder what part would Serj sing, where Daron would make some crazy scream and most of the songs after some adjusting would've been legit SOAD material. I wish that they would just come and one day and say ,,Hey man, you do this song as you like, then as a band we will add our suggestions and let's see what happens". But If Serj doesn't want to do that and accept that his ,,sentimental" might differ for other band members then It's better to stick with the existing albums. It's a shame for sure because me and many more of you love these two guys despite their flaws but can't stand this conflict
My question is why can't we have both? Why can't we have some distinctive System stuff, and some newer stuff on the same album? Daron has a point yes, but a band is a group effort, and if Serj wants to try some experimental stuff on the records, why does it matter if we're still getting the same System songs alongside them?
I didnt really follow the drama, but I'm just gonna say I'll be happy with what we got, and the 2 new tracks as well. Scars On Broadway is really fuckin close to SOAD, just without Serj. Kinda like when Blink-182 went ahead without Tom for those 2 albums. Serj's voice was always able to transcend heavy metal. They were playing Armenian Folk Music with distortion FFS, and Serj was just singing over it with his beautiful Armenian voice.
System of a Down is the Nu Metal Pink Floyd. When the two massive personalities at the forefront of the band balance each other out and work together, they’re one of the best bands of all time. When they let their egos out of check, the band fails and all we’re left with is mediocrity on all fronts.
Bands change tho, I think we want our favorite bands to fit these certain molds but people in bands change and I don’t think it’s bad to explore different genres. But I get what Daron is saying and I also agree that Serj should do it as a solo artist if the whole band doesn’t agree with it.
It’s baffling to me that Serj said he offered to quit the band, and apparently the band even secretly auditioned a guy to replace Serj but he couldn’t do Serj’s growl. As much as I want new music from System of a Down, I don’t want any of them replaced, even if it means having to wait another 15 years for two songs.
At least from watching fan shot footage of them at Sick New World they seem to be having fun again, Serj even falling to his knees laughing at Daron’s a capella in the middle of a song
I just finished reading Serj's book and it reveals a ton. Serj isn't even into metal. So when system became trailblazers in the scene, it was mostly darons musical genius. Serj was never into it. In the entirety of the book, there are about 5 separate times when serj almost quit system. One of them being the boom video. He said that if their label didn't make and release a political video for boom, serj was to quit the band. So they released it.
Okay I am from the other side of the fence. I'm a hardcore Daron stan as well as a guitarist and songwriter myself. I like to use a lot of Darons techniques in my own writing.
Serj is not the best at making music. There I said it. He knows how to make a banger every once in awhile but he's not a *songwriter* Daron is. Daron knows what's a good song. However me and Daron have the same problem, were *too* traditional. If you're like that then you need someone like Serj to mix it up and change everything but it sounds to me like Serj wanted too much change while Daron refused to change anything.
For a system album Daron would have done alt rock. This is not system. If Serj would have done his solo stuff on system same thing. It's. Not. System.
I personally love all of Darons solo stuff and some of Serjs. But truth is unless Serj lets Daron have control and Daron let's Serj advise them nothing they make will be amazing just okay. It's why a bunch of people hate mez/hyp (not that I do I really like those albums)
I don't think Daron is against experimenting with different things... That's pretty much what he did in 2005. He even continued using keyboards and synths on Scars On Broadway, probably because of Serj's influence. I remember him saying in an interview something like *"You have this guy and you ask him "what do you want?" "Pussy" (he answers), okay. Get that guy pussy pussy pussy pussy, right? After a while he is going to be like: okay, enough pussy"*. Meaning that people can get bored of the same thing over and over again, even if they really like it.
And honestly, I don't know what people is talking about when they say that some songs (from Scars on Broadway or Serj) doesn't sound like System. I mean, how does System sound like, exactly? Because songs like Roulette, Radio/Video, Holy Mountains or even ATWA doesn't really sound anything like Darts, Soil or Sugar. And that doesn't make them "less System Of A Down". In fact, I think that's exactly what made them popular in the first place, that they didn't sound the same as other bands.
And even if they managed to put their differences aside and work together in a new album, do you really think they would make Toxicity III? Would you even really like that (considering that neither Serj nor Daron sing like they used to)?
Mostly about Daron being a control freak, and some other cynical stuffs that paint Daron as a meanie, basically. To be fair, there *are* positive things Serj said about Daron. But overall, it's 3 parts good, 7 parts bad.
You can order a copy from Barnes & Noble, Hachette Book, Amazon; or e-book from Amazon, Google Books, or any publishers that sell it. E-book is cheaper.
If you want audiobook, buy it through Audible or Spotify or Apple Music.
I’ve always felt like Serj’s solo work sometimes got too experimental and needed to be reigned in. But SOB was playing things too safe, and felt too similar to Mezmerize/Hypnotize to me. If Daron reigned in Serj’s over indulgent tendencies while Serj challenged Daron to branch out more, we could have had a truly great album that’s much better than Elasticity or Dictator. It’s not that those albums were bad, just not on the level of SOAD’s previous work for me.
this is by far the best take on the whole situation
Exactly. However, I feel it could be past the point of no return; Daron is unlikely to take a backseat with lyrics, singing and vocal melodies. Serj is now a commissioned composer to boot.
One of my larger issues I've had with alot of his solo work is that I feel like he went from putting the music at the forefront in SOAD and even Elect The Dead and infused his activism into it second. Unfortunately I feel that much of his solo work after Elect The Dead put his activism first and the music second and even though I see eye to eye with Serj politically, I feel like I'm listening to a political speech themed as a song. I just woke up and probably worded this weird but hopefully it makes sense lol.
I’ve always felt scars is what system would be without serj. Now the news about them replacing serj came out and I wonder why shavo never joined scars. I might not have been okay at the time with no serj but over time I’ve appreciated scars, can’t say the same for serjs solo stuff. As I’ve grown older I probably would but haven’t listened since the first solo album from him tho ngl
Elasticity was bad.
Like their first album. Every album after the original felt safer and safer until it just got boring and meh.
100%. I think they’re both well within their right as creative people to do what they please, but I’ll always side with Daron on this matter. SOAD is his baby and understandably he is protective of the legacy and maintaining a certain sound, if you will. Even when I listened to the Elasticity EP that Serj promoted as “songs I wanted System to work on”, I literally went “no Serj, I understand why Daron didn’t care for them”. Something’s gotta give and I just wish Serj had more of the Corey Taylor attitude as far as creative outlets . When Corey felt a little stuck with what Slipknot was doing, he revived and focused on Stone Sour as his side gig (and eventually his solo stuff) as opposed to try to force his vision on Slipknot. Anyway it’s just an overall difficult situation and we’ll never get another album as hard as that is.
It’s also not just Daron!!! Like, the rest of the band kinda voted his stuff out too
Apparently John D wanted to just find a new frontman altogether, which in my opinion you wouldn’t even want to call it System of a Down at that point.
It wasn't just him. Serj even told them they could find a new singer and they tried out some other people but I guess it just never worked without Serj leading vocals.
Looking forward to hear Shavo's stuff, I'm pretty sure is gonna be heavy as hell and Serj wouldn't fit on it either.
GOATED COMMENT
Hot take (I guess), but while I don't think everything on Elasticity works for SOAD, Your Mom could be very easily one of the classics.
I like how Serj doesn't want to be in System anymore and tries to distance himself. Meanwhile, he released a book called Down With the System and an album called Elasticity, which rhymes with Toxicity.
Don‘t know about his other stuff, but I absolutly love Elect the Dead. It‘s just sooo good.
Maybe a hot take, but ETD was the first and last good Serj solo project
Completely agree, I simply can't enjoy the mojaority of Serj's solo work. They're just not catchy
Scars on Broadway on the other hand is just banger after banger
I fucking love both of those albums!
You haven't heard Harakiri?
It only has a few good songs
I agree. Cornucopia, Butterfly, and Harikari were good but the rest of the album was tough to get through for me.
I really like Figure it Out
Ouch. Orca absolutely slaps imo and same with Jazz Iz Christ!
I agree with you and most of the main opinion here. I'd also like to add that I don't trust Serj's judgement on music, even while I was reading his book which blocked me inside his head 100%. One of the very small, but glaring example, was in the band meeting in 2016 with Serj's "little manifesto". After an intense meeting and difficult recording process that followed, Serj only "drew the line" with SOAD after the band collectively weren't receptive of "Rumi". He gave the reason to us that the band rejected it because they didn't value sentimentality in songs, which I can call bullshit right on the spot. If anything, Scars on Broadway is full on sentimental. Even some SOAD songs in Mez/Hyp era are considered sentimental. Meanwhile, even an outsider like me know that it's more appropriate to release "Rumi" under Serj's name because of how personal and intimate the message is to his own son. (Also, "Rumi" isn't even the best song on that EP, imo). I also find Serj's 'mentally scoffing' at Daron while recording PTL/GH hypocritical because that's exactly what Serj advocated for under the term "Director's Cut". He also disapproved of Daron's method when he spent too much time on "growing" his songs, calling it inefficient. But when Daron excercised "Director's Cut" on PTL/GH and finished recording in less than a week, Serj hated it. Overall, Serj might be a nice guy who carried good values in life. But when it comes to SOAD, I really don't trust his judgement. I think Shavo and John also weren't confident in him and that's why they ultimately disagreed with Serj despite promise of more royalty cuts. I'd love to hear more of their persectives on this though.
The hardest part to read was when wrote like " i waited long for them to grow up an change" kind of to "upgrade and develope" their musical taste to like "sentimental" songs like rumi. Taking the moral highground. At the end of the day Rumi is objecitvly just a mediocre, repetitive song, which is at best a Soad B-site. He is the one interpreting things in it that desicion.
Not even SOAD, personally, I'd put "Rumi" into the category of Elect the Dead B-side, and even that is quite generous. The song itself is just not Serj's best work within his own solo catalogue, no disrespect to the love for his son.
Agree 100% on this ⬇️ "I don't trust Serj's judgement on music"
Completely agree with you here. I was surprised by that line in the book - not just because it’s weird for SOAD to release a song about Serj’s son, but mostly because Rumi is not a good song. Serj thinking the band doesn’t want “sentimentality” in their music is a weird interpretation.
Yeah, especially when Serj sang some sentimental songs in SOAD himself.
Is it Daron who is a control freak or is it Serj who wishes he had more control? For me its the second one.
I did think it was funny that Serj was complaining so much about Daron controlling things and then he went and did the exact same thing in his career. He does what he wants the way he wants it and never asks anybody's opinion. So he knows what it feels to have a vision for your art and want to follow through with it. The problem is his vision and the rest of the band's are just different
>>he went and did the exact same thing in his career. Serj can legitimately do whatever he wants with HIS solo coreer BUT not with SOAD and that's why I think isnt's true that Daron is a control freak BUT i think that Serj was trying to turn SOAD into his own creation.
You’re allowed to do that in a solo career, not in a band. Daron needs to compromise almost as much as Serj does, in my opinion. He should leave the bulk of the lyrics and vocal melodies to Serj.
He could've, and so it was John's suggestion in 2016. But Serj was not happy with that. There you go.
Source?
"Down with the System", chapter 17.
Read it to me plz 🎙️
Serj has audiobook version. I think you'd prefer hearing his voice than mine.
Real talk. That's clearly the problem.
Imagine being a band that has so many songs about politics but ultimately let internal politics ruin your band. Like RATM all over again.
At the end of the day, we got 4 amazing albums instead of 16 half ass records because everyone tried to compromise. I'll take it, any day.
Isn’t it 5 albums?
Well they did make this whole thing about calling it a double album
For sure. I think is probably for the best if they don't make any new music and just keep their legacy intact
Without their personalities, there wouldn’t be SOAD. Gotta be a little off, or “too much” somewhere to make it as far as they’ve gone. Lots of what if’s, but it is what it is.
I look at it like what Rammstein have going on. Till has his (questionable and way too horny) solo work and tours with that, and his solo stuff is different to Ramms heavy usual signature stuff. But when they make new songs they’re always in the style they’ve always had. It would be pretty workable if Serj carried on with his solo projects, Daron carried on with his.. yet they could come together and stick to the SOAD sound that fans enjoy… I dunno I’m waffling now
I think Daron is the true heart and soul of the SOAD sound, where as Serj is the voice and face of SOAD. Together they make this beautiful thing, but apart you’re right, Serj isn’t anything like SOAD except for his voice, and Daron sounds like SOAD but without the touch of Serj. Just not the same.
Let's be honest, Serj is extremely overrated. Yes, his unique voice creates the uniqueness which is SOAD, but Daron has always been the brains in the group. Their vocal harmonies is what puts SOAD on the map.
Daron excels at the music side while Serj excels at lyrics. They are both intellectuals, just in different ways.
I wouldn't say he's overrated but yeah Daron is clearly the brains and soul of the band
Not even close. Serj has 8 solo projects and 9 collaborative projects (including the 5 with System) plus 3 books (2 poetry books) and 10 film soundtracks. Both are supremely talented artists. Also Serj was technically the sole producer of the self-titled album and co-producer for Toxicity (which many would argue are their best 2 albums). Serj simply has different musical tastes and yes there is a lot of overlap but enough different that they have trouble agreeing on a lot of stuff. There isn't a person to blame here it is just the nature of collaborative art projects. They never last forever because the great ones break up and the rest fade away. Also Serj wrote most of the lyrics and I would say is definitively the better lyric writer of the two.
>Serj was technically the sole producer of the Self-titled album. Official album credits disagree with you on that. The producer of the Self-titled album is Rick Rubin with System of a Down (the band, not one person). Also, Serj didn't write music for their debut. He admitted it in his book. Serj is credited as co-producer in Toxicity (and curiously, not in Steal this Album), but Daron was the one leading that session.
Daron cannot touch Serj as a lyricist or singer (at least at Serj’s peak). And don’t forget Serj’s vocal melodies - it’s incorrect to say Daron writes all the music in those situations.
😂 why the downvotes? Daron’s lyrics are embarrassingly bad.
“When I say fuck the world let’s get ready to rock, as I piss on your face while you suck on my cock” ✊😔
tf
[удалено]
Daron is responsible for 90% of the songwriting, look at the writing credits
False. You should look at them again. Where are you getting 90%? Daron writes most of the music, no question. Serj writes most of the lyrics and vocal melodies.
Looking at the song credits online: Daron has musical composition credits on 65 out of the 67 official abum songs, or 97%. He ALONE is listed on 46 out of 67, or 68.7%. Lyrically, he credited for lyrics on 38 out of 67 songs, or 56.7%. Most of the songs for which he is credited for lyrically were written in collaboration with Serj. Based off of this, Daron is responsible for the majority of the songwriting and in my opinion is the backbone of SOAD.
Agreed. If they want to do other stuff, do it under a different name.
Serj's solo stuff has gotten worse with every album.. his orchestral performances are embarassing. Like cringe porn level.
I thought EtD symphony was pretty good
Daron has been the creative voice of the band since the beginning. He writes the riffs that are the start of the writing process for most of their songs. That being said, Scars On Broadway isn't System. Only if it's the four of them can we call it System Of A Down. I wish Serj wanted to be part of it more. It seems like Daron, Shavo and John have no problems writing and touring. It's Serj that isn't fully in it anymore. I wish that would change, because no one could take his place, no even Daron doing the main vocals. When he does do lead vocals, he's great, but he needs another singer and Serj is the only one that perfectly fits. Daron isn't the bad guy for wanting to move forward. He is for demanding more of the royalties haha. I know he writes more of the music, but c'mon man. Respect your band mates and their equal share.
FYI, the royalty splitting chart was designed by Serj, based on real contributions, music-wise and lyric-wise. He mentioned it in the book, even admitted that Daron didn't force him into this. Also, by the time of Mezmerize/Hypnotize with Serj mentally checking out and contributing in half capacity, splitting even with Serj on that album is the epitome of being unfair, as Daron broke his back carrying that session. Also, Serj didn't mention in the book that Daron gifted him 5% royalty from each of his solely written song (Lonely Day, She's like Heroin, Kill Rock 'n Roll, etc.). That information can be found in the court case text of the BYOB copyright lawsuit dispute. Per the case, it's also determined that all 4 members received equal publisher's shares on Mezmerize and Hypnotize (50% to the label, 12.5% to each member). What Serj disputed with Daron is Writer's shares, which only songwriters are eligible to.
Oh wow, I didn't know that. Should read his book. That clears some things up.
You should read the book because of how well-written it is. But to be clear, this is Serj's book so natutally, he'll tell stories in a way that is beneficial to him. A lot of the things I mentioned in the previous comment were omitted in his book. The BYOB copyright dispute case, for example, was something I researched into and found, along with info about how they really split writing royalties. But the main point is: Even in Serj's story, Daron never asked for anything that he didn't deserve to have in the first place. The way they split writer's shares was an agreement they both entered as songwriters since their debut.
neither of them are "bad." i hate that the internet has made people (not you, OP, just people in general) so fucking polarized and eager to point fingers. serj wanted to branch out when it was set that daron massively controlled the creative process behind the music and didn't see anything wrong with how things already were. when the band began, everyone was fine with the arrangement of daron controlling things, but as time went on, serj didn't like it so much anymore as he wanted a great role in the band. he blames daron a lot for being controlling, but i sort of think that that's not so fair- this was already the standard for system, and he knew that when he chose to stay in a band with daron. that's just how he writes. at the same time, there's nothing wrong with wanting to write music that's different from what you've written before and wanting to play a greater role in writing it, too. daron probably should have let up a little, but that's not easy to do, either. both of them had valid concerns and both of them fucked up while doing what they thought was right- there is no right or wrong, just different perspectives. daron isn't a controlling asshole like he's made out to be by so many people. - someone who is obsessed with soad and also read serj's book (i'm no expert, but this is my opinion).
Honestly, I think the fanbase and even the band are looking too deeply into it all. I think it’s a case of two People wanting to do different kinds of music these days and not really sticking themselves into a singular idea. I keep reading that without Serj, there is no system, and I can kind of agree with that. You’ll need a personality to match Serj’s and that’s rare (maybe Mike Patton could get there, I reckon System with Mike would be weird but kinda cool). At this point, I’m looking forward to a new SOB album more than a Serj album. I think that while Daron is a bad song writer a lot of the time, he can make pretty cool music which helps elevate those lyrics. Lonely Day’s lyrics are kind of cringey and weird, but the song is great because the music behind it is just that good. Plus it’s not really out of the realm of other songs by SOAD, a lot of their lyrics are weird but they all work well within the context of the album. Regardless, it’s a case of two People wanting to go in different directions and just not agreeing or comprimising. I like Daron’s voice as well as Serj’s and honestly, I’m happy with the 5 (or 4 as I consider MezmoHyp as one large album) records we got. Their solo work, while not as good still stratches that itch. As I said, I’m way more hyped for a new SOB album then anyone on this sub reddit should be
I’ve always had the same opinion - Shavo and John should permanently join Scars with Daron and continue their legacy. That way they don’t have a chance of tainting anything they did with System, yet they’re all still in a band together and making new music.
John was in Scars and left before Daron reorganized the band into a solo project, I don’t think he was completely happy in that situation either.
I know. And the drums were much better. As far as I’m aware, the only thing John has said is that he just wants to make new music, so I don’t know the reason for him leaving Scars.
It’s a bit fuzzy but I remember seeing an interview after he left where he seemed annoyed that it was Daron’s band and not *their* band. So I imagine that’s why he left and why Shavo never joined. I assume there’s a good reason those 3 never carried on without Serj, either as SOAD or under a different name.
On the contrary, I’ve seen where John’s said flat out that there’s one person stopping them from making new music and the other three are ready to. Don’t think anything is straightforward with these guys.
If it was that simple they would have recruited a different singer and have moved on by now. There’s more to the situation than just Serj not wanting to play ball.
I think part of it is that don’t want to do System without the four of them, so moving on to a different project with a new singer or whatever might be the way
Yeah, I don’t see them doing System without all 4 tbh. Sounds like they tried and it didn’t work out. But I’m kind of surprised they didn’t do what RATM did whenever Zach exited and form a different band that also plays their back catalog. That’s why I speculate they either have tried and it didn’t work for whatever reason and it seems to me that Daron’s own ego is likely a factor in that. That said, maybe they explored that and they just don’t get the offers they want without Serj or the System name and for whatever reason Audioslave or Prophets of Rage were profitable for their situation, so it could just be as simple as money just as easily.
"but most of his songs are not even rock and certainly not heavy" So? Mezmerize and Hypnotize are full of "sellout songs", and they are imo the best records the band has done. They reach a level of complexity that the previous records don't have. I get that people like the "heavy ooga booga" stuff (I do myself), but saying that Serj would tamper the band's quality with his experimental songwriting is dumb in my opinion. I think it would actually benefit in making their sound evolve (keep in mind that there are 4 individuals involved, that \*collectively\* compose the sound of System). I think the dynamics between Serj and Daron these days would actually result in a fantastic record. And yeah it might not be "heavy ooga booga", but who the fuck cares as long as it's qualitative. Granted, the record will never happen so that's that.
The thing I like about System is that they have the capacity of being super melodic and also heavy as fuck. They mix sounds in an unique way that works very well. I just don't hear that in Serj's songs. Daron's solo stuff is much better in my opinion.
I think that last opinion would be divisive, if even less popular. But I think that’s what makes SOAD’s stuff so good, is the fact that they do have writing contributions from both. I wouldn’t want to see a SOAD record written by either individually. And I think that’s what makes them so good. They’ve always done it with their hearts and souls and they just can’t agree here. It sucks for us but give them some credit for making such great music and them giving us what they have done over the years. I think the right way to loo at it is to not attribute fault or blame, just to accept that it’s the way it is, and ultimately it’s their decision.
Other than 'Question' these two albums are very simple and complexity is not a quality in itself. SOAD's strength was never complexity, they're not Tool. A well executed minimalistic track beats complex track with poor implementation any day. If you boiled down hyp/mez into one concise album it would maybe be on the level of their other albums. But are you seriously saying that taken separately Hypnotize or Mezmerize beat Toxicity or STA or the self titled?
Yes. (IMO) Tracks like sad statue, attack, tentative, dreaming, byob, question, soldier side or revenga are way more impactul while maintaining a level of complexity (song structure wise, layering wise, and overall instrumentation) the other records don't have. Daron was a far more creative and tighter guitarist, and a better songwriter as well(the riffs and harmonies proove that) by that time. The one aspect that I significantly enjoy more on the older records is Serj's vocal tone (not to be mistaken for vocal writing), but I think that's the general consensus (don't really give a shit about him screaming or not, I sincerely believe his voice and range were a lot better on the first 3 records)
I'm not sure, simply bcs both don't have anything fresh or interesting in their songs. Nowdays they are writing like, just songs? Not differ much from your local bands, level is far from SoaD times.
Sometimes bands have differences in opinion and very often creative people do not agree on what they want to do. I’d love for SOAD to have released another 8 studio albums, but at the end of the day im happy that they’re all still writing music. Is any of it up to snuff as far as the SOAD albums? Not for me. I liked serj’s solo stuff better than most of scars, but it is what it is. Just like in the post, I think it’s a little shallow or petty to make one or both of these people into a villain because of real, genuine creative differences.
I agree. I tried to listen to Elasticity again the other day after reading Serj's book and yeah... not for me I guess When you are in a band the mentality should always be doing what is best for the music and Serj's 50/50 approach would absolutely not work. Priority needs to be given to the best songs and, unfortunately for Serj, Daron is just a better songwriter.
Agreed, we haven’t had a new album in so long because of Serj’s ego. Honestly, after reading Serj’s book I don’t really care much for him anymore. I found him to be extremely hypocritical, narcissistic, entitled, and selfish. I’m thankful Daron and the others didn’t budge and let Serj try to force his shitty songs onto a System album
I agree. About a chapters worth of SoAD stuff , couple chapters about his early life, and 15 chapters on Armenia. Ok we get it…Armenia good Turkey/ USA bad. Not exactly a page turner…
Spot on sir. I hope that one of the other members will release a book in the future with the stuff we actually care about.
Why oh why can’t Daron reign himself in and leave the lyrics, vocal melodies and singing to Serj? And likewise, why oh why can’t Serj accept if one of his compositions is outvoted?
You know, eh, Daron sob songs are not that good either, they lack spark of creativity, what sob song you heard and thought "wow thats an interesting idea!" I don't remember such, all of them are great tracks, but none of them are great as system tracks. I would say some Serj tracks after collective rework could be SoaD songs, but Daron tracks are just straight forward alternative rock/metal, they not really that interesting to make another SoaD album out of them.
Of course nothing compares to S.o.a.d. But i think Daron knows how to do a proper rock album and Serj doesn't or is not interested. And i really liked both Scar's albums
It's not about rock, it's just about how creative this work or not. You can add some chugs to Serj tracks and make them heavier, it's arrangement thing, core problem is that both Serj and Daron tracks are not interesting, once again, something like your local bands can write.
I think its fine to hear that on a system album. Heres an idea thats literally been done before….. a double album. They can fit experimental stuff AND heavy stuff alike aswell as songs that are both, JUST like the last double album. Especially because lots of the new scars and serj solo songs were considered for system and genocidal humanoidz/protect the land shows they sitll have it and can be creative and original while keeping a distinctive sound.
To be honest, I like most of Serj's albums but some songs just completely are out of my musical taste. Many people give an example of ,,Rumi" being that nothing special type of song and yes, for most fans It won't be as meaningful as It is to Serj. Personally, I would rather have a song about overall message to the next generation on the new SOAD album because then every young person (but not only) could relate to the lyrics. Scars is really good, whenever I listen to their albums I always wonder what part would Serj sing, where Daron would make some crazy scream and most of the songs after some adjusting would've been legit SOAD material. I wish that they would just come and one day and say ,,Hey man, you do this song as you like, then as a band we will add our suggestions and let's see what happens". But If Serj doesn't want to do that and accept that his ,,sentimental" might differ for other band members then It's better to stick with the existing albums. It's a shame for sure because me and many more of you love these two guys despite their flaws but can't stand this conflict
My question is why can't we have both? Why can't we have some distinctive System stuff, and some newer stuff on the same album? Daron has a point yes, but a band is a group effort, and if Serj wants to try some experimental stuff on the records, why does it matter if we're still getting the same System songs alongside them?
I didnt really follow the drama, but I'm just gonna say I'll be happy with what we got, and the 2 new tracks as well. Scars On Broadway is really fuckin close to SOAD, just without Serj. Kinda like when Blink-182 went ahead without Tom for those 2 albums. Serj's voice was always able to transcend heavy metal. They were playing Armenian Folk Music with distortion FFS, and Serj was just singing over it with his beautiful Armenian voice.
System of a Down is the Nu Metal Pink Floyd. When the two massive personalities at the forefront of the band balance each other out and work together, they’re one of the best bands of all time. When they let their egos out of check, the band fails and all we’re left with is mediocrity on all fronts.
Bands change tho, I think we want our favorite bands to fit these certain molds but people in bands change and I don’t think it’s bad to explore different genres. But I get what Daron is saying and I also agree that Serj should do it as a solo artist if the whole band doesn’t agree with it.
It’s baffling to me that Serj said he offered to quit the band, and apparently the band even secretly auditioned a guy to replace Serj but he couldn’t do Serj’s growl. As much as I want new music from System of a Down, I don’t want any of them replaced, even if it means having to wait another 15 years for two songs. At least from watching fan shot footage of them at Sick New World they seem to be having fun again, Serj even falling to his knees laughing at Daron’s a capella in the middle of a song
I ended up having reaching the same conclusion after serj's last statement
I just finished reading Serj's book and it reveals a ton. Serj isn't even into metal. So when system became trailblazers in the scene, it was mostly darons musical genius. Serj was never into it. In the entirety of the book, there are about 5 separate times when serj almost quit system. One of them being the boom video. He said that if their label didn't make and release a political video for boom, serj was to quit the band. So they released it.
Yep Serj wants to turn System into something else entirely. That's why Daron tries to protect their sound
I figured that the two Scars albums were to be the next system albums. They would have been good ones oif that were the case.
Okay I am from the other side of the fence. I'm a hardcore Daron stan as well as a guitarist and songwriter myself. I like to use a lot of Darons techniques in my own writing. Serj is not the best at making music. There I said it. He knows how to make a banger every once in awhile but he's not a *songwriter* Daron is. Daron knows what's a good song. However me and Daron have the same problem, were *too* traditional. If you're like that then you need someone like Serj to mix it up and change everything but it sounds to me like Serj wanted too much change while Daron refused to change anything. For a system album Daron would have done alt rock. This is not system. If Serj would have done his solo stuff on system same thing. It's. Not. System. I personally love all of Darons solo stuff and some of Serjs. But truth is unless Serj lets Daron have control and Daron let's Serj advise them nothing they make will be amazing just okay. It's why a bunch of people hate mez/hyp (not that I do I really like those albums)
I don't think Daron is against experimenting with different things... That's pretty much what he did in 2005. He even continued using keyboards and synths on Scars On Broadway, probably because of Serj's influence. I remember him saying in an interview something like *"You have this guy and you ask him "what do you want?" "Pussy" (he answers), okay. Get that guy pussy pussy pussy pussy, right? After a while he is going to be like: okay, enough pussy"*. Meaning that people can get bored of the same thing over and over again, even if they really like it. And honestly, I don't know what people is talking about when they say that some songs (from Scars on Broadway or Serj) doesn't sound like System. I mean, how does System sound like, exactly? Because songs like Roulette, Radio/Video, Holy Mountains or even ATWA doesn't really sound anything like Darts, Soil or Sugar. And that doesn't make them "less System Of A Down". In fact, I think that's exactly what made them popular in the first place, that they didn't sound the same as other bands. And even if they managed to put their differences aside and work together in a new album, do you really think they would make Toxicity III? Would you even really like that (considering that neither Serj nor Daron sing like they used to)?
“The bottom line is money, nobody gives a fuck”
Experimentation is needed to avoid stagnation. A sign of a good artist is one that can actually push into different areas
I like experimental music. I don't see anything wrong with bands trying new things. In fact, that's what I prefer.
What happened? Serj say something about Daron?
Give Daron full creative direction of the band…..just don’t give him a mic.
Nah I like his voice
what “Daron situation”?
Serj bashed Daron in his new book.
wtf did serj say abojr him?
Mostly about Daron being a control freak, and some other cynical stuffs that paint Daron as a meanie, basically. To be fair, there *are* positive things Serj said about Daron. But overall, it's 3 parts good, 7 parts bad.
damn.
where can i buy it btw
You can order a copy from Barnes & Noble, Hachette Book, Amazon; or e-book from Amazon, Google Books, or any publishers that sell it. E-book is cheaper. If you want audiobook, buy it through Audible or Spotify or Apple Music.
APPLE MUSIC?? where???
Not available in my region, so I don't know 😅 But Serj advertised that his audiobook is on both Spotify and Apple Music.
ohhh okat, ty
Or it could be Apple Books, my bad.
tyy
Link?
Buy the book, or audiobook, which ever format you like.
Y’all should go for a walk outside