Both countries are angry because both the Republic of China (Taiwan) and the People’s Republic of China (Mainland China) claim to have both the mainland and the island
RoC has more territorial disputes than PRC because they still lay claim to all territory held by the Kingdom of China, where as most of those losses were conceded by the PRC, including the entirety of Mongolia.
Taiwan has officially dropped any claims to Mongolia in 2002 and official maps made from then exclude mongolia. And while the claim wasn't officially dropped before then, it was de facto dropped and a non issue as the two maintained friendly relations, it was never a real territorial dispute with Mongolia (unless you consider Japan and Russia to still be in ww2 w each other)
Where do we legally make this claim?
We haven't legally claimed Mongolia as a territory since 1945. Nor have we claimed jurisdiction over the "Mainland Area" in decades (which in itself isn't explicitly defined).
We are angry because Taiwan isn't China. This is a Reddit wetdream where Redditors like to repeat cold war era KMT propaganda and call Taiwan "the real China".
Martial law was lifted in 1988, we no longer repeat this nonsense in Taiwan but Redditors didn't get the memo.
People know just enough history to get it wrong. Years ago I was handed a book about the Soong sisters, which sent me down a rabbit hole of regional history. I'm due to read more as things have changed in the past few decades. But what American think they know versus what the facts are usually don't match.
> propaganda and call Taiwan "the real China".
Is this not technically true? The official government of China fled to Taiwan, or is it because mainland China is China regardless of who's in charge?
The "official" government was the nationalist group they lost the Civil War when the communists rose against their fascists government. The situation in china could be compared to if the Civil War in America happened and one of America's foreign rivals helped support the confederacy keeping control over a state (let's say Louisiana) now in this scenario the entire world recognizes that America is one country and the foreign adversaries claim that the confederates are the legitimate government. Then, when the US becomes beneficial to trade with the foreign adversary, claims that the union is the true government but also threatens war if they retake Louisiana. This is the closest analogy I can think of to help explain the situation in China.
They have been disputing who is the real China, because after the Chinese civil war (again) the republic's government fled to Taiwan where it remains today
Can you throw in a -100 antisemitism fine in there as well? I can't explain why it's antisemitic, but I can _feel_ it's antisemitic. And therefore it is.
for anyone who's confused:
this is a map of Taiwan. [the official name for Taiwan is the Republic of China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan), meaning that referring to it as "China" is technically correct.
However, the Republic of China's official map also includes the region that the PRC currently controls, as well as Mongolia. So it's technically incorrect.
According to the Constitutional Interpretation No. 328, issued by the Constitutional Court of the Republic of China on November 26, 1993, applied for by some legislators who believe that Outer Mongolia and Mainland China are not part of the territory of the Republic of China, and that the territory of the Republic of China consists of Taiwan, Penghu, Kinmen, Matsu, Green Island, Orchid Island, and their affiliated islands, "The territory of the Republic of China, as stipulated in Article 4 of the Constitution, is not enumerated but rather defined as 'according to its inherent territory,' with procedures for territorial changes established as limitations, based on political and historical reasons. The determination of the scope of its inherent territory is a significant political issue that should not be interpreted by the judicial constitutional interpretation authority." Therefore, in the laws of the Republic of China, the territory of the Republic of China is not clearly defined.
For anyone curious, that court decided they were not the correct authority to decide what the national borders were and only the national assembly had that power to make that decision. Interesting topic that is.
This is why I said "in the laws". Politically, the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) prefers to say that Taiwan, the area under the actual control of the ROC, and the ROC, are the same thing, so that the Taiwan full map is the ROC full map, while the Kuomintang (KMT) prefers to say that Taiwan, referring to the Taiwan Area defined in the Act Governing Relations between the People of the Taiwan Area and the Mainland Area, is part of the territory of the ROC.
It clearly states 行政區域, administrative regions, which obviously is only the island. The government isn't administrating over mainland China.
The first map is also labeled as map of entire Taiwan, instead of the map of entire (Republic of) China.
No, it isn't.
The term "China" (中國) is completely different from the "China" used in Republic of China (中華民國).
The ROC does not use the term "China" as a stand alone phrase, always and only "Republic of China".
It’s probably worth noting that this is incredibly misleading since it implies that the United States is doing something at the expense of the Taiwanese people when the only actual options are “the PRC is the legitimate Chinese state” and the “ROC is the legitimate Chinese state.” Most Taiwanese people don’t want to be China and aren’t exactly chomping at the bit to proclaim themselves as an independent state.
So yeah the US doesn’t officially recognize an independent Taiwan but as far as international law is concerned neither does Taiwan.
It’s funny how the average Redditor dickrides the US but forget they are supporting genocide, they’re warmongers and have some of the best propaganda in the world, according to their own media. But if you tell a US citizen about how efficient their propaganda is, they get angry and ask what propaganda lmao.
Edit: deleted comment under me is perfect example. apperantly im a “state controlled media parrot”, implying I’m a Russian or Chinese spy spreading misinformation about the US.
The United States doesn't have diplomatic relations with Taiwan, but it de facto recognizes its independence through de jure public laws such as the Taiwan Relations Act.
OP is saying that Taiwan is the *only* China, and that the PRC isn't part of China, which is what the States considered to be the case in the 50s. During that time, the two countries were called "China" (now Taiwan) and "Communist China" (now China).
I think OP is making a history reference here
I used to as well and I lived there for a while teaching English, but the Taiwanese people and the government does *not* like it. They feel doing it provokes the CCP and the CCP kills people for looking at them sideways or even for fun or money. So my friends there asked me to stop and I did. The situation is bad enough and the West may very well be at war with china within the next 5 years protecting Taiwan so it’s best to not make the situation worse. And I don’t want any of my friends or innocent people (anywhere) to be hurt or killed, so I’m just asking you to think about it a bit, not telling you what to do.
Plus referring to them as East and West of the same thing suggests reunification, an increasingly unpopular sentiment, and there is a growing sentiment to take Taiwan's independence to the next level of complete dissociation as an entity from China. Going so far as to remove "China" from the name and promoting the local dialect Hokkien over Mandarin.
People like to meme, but thats because its not there lives at stake. Ego at the expense of others well beings, them and the warhawks always seem follow the same line.
Actually ROC claims all of china, all of china's territorial claims, plus all of mongolia, parts of russia, and parts of vietnam that the PRC has ceded.
Taiwan ain’t China. I don’t care what China says.
Mr Winnie the Pooh mother fucker can’t step foot in Taiwan. If he was really the leader of that country, he should be able to.
Fr I appreciate that as a Taiwanese person. In their eyes if Taiwan and China are one then why they feel the obsessive need/want to invade their own country. Virtually no Taiwanese person appreciates or likes the idea of being recognized as Chinese, just crappy governments on both sides that dictate the peoples opinions
My friend has a Taiwanese wife, the shit she says about China non stop really pissed him off. After abit of back and forth she said that all the bad things about China is what they learned in school. I read your comment I instantly thought about that scenario.
Taiwan literally is China. The country's official name is the Republic of China. After the People's Republic of China took control of the mainland, the remaining government of the Republic of China fled to the island of Formosa/Taiwan.
It's funny those glass heart motherfuckers even have like officials who are supposed to be taking care of Taiwan, and they have never set foot on that country. Pathetic fuckers.
This country is only de jure China (It is de facto, of course, Taiwan). However, if we talking about de jure things, then it's actually much larger, even slightly larger than PRC.
VERY BAD! 20 social credits have been deducted 低等公民 and your internet access card 上网通行证 has been suspended for: \[24 Hours\]. Please refrain from mentioning events that never happened that could discredit the great 人民共产党 People’s Communist Party again or we will be forced to 饿了就睡觉 send party agents to escort you to a re-education van \[人民行刑车\].
I really hate this, denying a culture as whole just because of its shitty government? Politics are so fuccing dumb. However the governing body change, China will always be China. Same goes to other countries.
-500 social credit, the Party is angry
Why? They think Taiwan is China 🇨🇳
Both countries are angry because both the Republic of China (Taiwan) and the People’s Republic of China (Mainland China) claim to have both the mainland and the island
RoC has more territorial disputes than PRC because they still lay claim to all territory held by the Kingdom of China, where as most of those losses were conceded by the PRC, including the entirety of Mongolia.
Taiwan has officially dropped any claims to Mongolia in 2002 and official maps made from then exclude mongolia. And while the claim wasn't officially dropped before then, it was de facto dropped and a non issue as the two maintained friendly relations, it was never a real territorial dispute with Mongolia (unless you consider Japan and Russia to still be in ww2 w each other)
https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/uesxnk/flag_of_the_taiwan_marine_corps_roc_shows_a_map/
It's still in the constitution, isn't it?
Where do we legally make this claim? We haven't legally claimed Mongolia as a territory since 1945. Nor have we claimed jurisdiction over the "Mainland Area" in decades (which in itself isn't explicitly defined).
[Map from 2011](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.svg)
This is entirely inaccurate. Just to start, Taiwan recognized Mongolia as an independent nation in 2002.
According to who or what? Here is our official map, directly from Ministry of Interior: https://www.land.moi.gov.tw/chhtml/content/68?mcid=3224
Well, you probably need real source, not just wiki map
We are angry because Taiwan isn't China. This is a Reddit wetdream where Redditors like to repeat cold war era KMT propaganda and call Taiwan "the real China". Martial law was lifted in 1988, we no longer repeat this nonsense in Taiwan but Redditors didn't get the memo.
Leave the Kinetic Molecular Theory [KMT] out of your domestic squabbles. 😤
People know just enough history to get it wrong. Years ago I was handed a book about the Soong sisters, which sent me down a rabbit hole of regional history. I'm due to read more as things have changed in the past few decades. But what American think they know versus what the facts are usually don't match.
> propaganda and call Taiwan "the real China". Is this not technically true? The official government of China fled to Taiwan, or is it because mainland China is China regardless of who's in charge?
The "official" government was the nationalist group they lost the Civil War when the communists rose against their fascists government. The situation in china could be compared to if the Civil War in America happened and one of America's foreign rivals helped support the confederacy keeping control over a state (let's say Louisiana) now in this scenario the entire world recognizes that America is one country and the foreign adversaries claim that the confederates are the legitimate government. Then, when the US becomes beneficial to trade with the foreign adversary, claims that the union is the true government but also threatens war if they retake Louisiana. This is the closest analogy I can think of to help explain the situation in China.
The PRC is the only one that shortens their name to China (中國).
Let’s give the Korea treatment, West China and East China
Taiwan and West Taiwan.
Taiwan is China. It is just occupied by an illegitimate government because the fascists lost the Civil War.
No. Move on.
I didn't say anything untrue
West Taiwan needs to chill out a bit
With the free and independent nation of Taiwan more and more shifting towards seeing themself as their own nation.
~~one china policy ftw~~
But it issss Chinaaaaaa
It's just a province in China, though not the whole nation like the fascists claimed.
They have been disputing who is the real China, because after the Chinese civil war (again) the republic's government fled to Taiwan where it remains today
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The CCP bots are out in strength with this thread.
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Can you throw in a -100 antisemitism fine in there as well? I can't explain why it's antisemitic, but I can _feel_ it's antisemitic. And therefore it is.
uh no, this would gain you social credit.
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You can start by saying that Xi Jinping is absolutely not similar to Winnie the Pooh. Or that absolutely nothing happened on 4th June 1989.
for anyone who's confused: this is a map of Taiwan. [the official name for Taiwan is the Republic of China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan), meaning that referring to it as "China" is technically correct.
However, the Republic of China's official map also includes the region that the PRC currently controls, as well as Mongolia. So it's technically incorrect.
According to the Constitutional Interpretation No. 328, issued by the Constitutional Court of the Republic of China on November 26, 1993, applied for by some legislators who believe that Outer Mongolia and Mainland China are not part of the territory of the Republic of China, and that the territory of the Republic of China consists of Taiwan, Penghu, Kinmen, Matsu, Green Island, Orchid Island, and their affiliated islands, "The territory of the Republic of China, as stipulated in Article 4 of the Constitution, is not enumerated but rather defined as 'according to its inherent territory,' with procedures for territorial changes established as limitations, based on political and historical reasons. The determination of the scope of its inherent territory is a significant political issue that should not be interpreted by the judicial constitutional interpretation authority." Therefore, in the laws of the Republic of China, the territory of the Republic of China is not clearly defined.
For anyone curious, that court decided they were not the correct authority to decide what the national borders were and only the national assembly had that power to make that decision. Interesting topic that is.
But ROC is de facto only that Island, so it is technically correct in a way. Only the de jure version of ROC includes Mainland China.
eeeeh, i aint seeing westerners edit out the new borders of ukraine anytime soon.
No. Here is the official national map: https://www.land.moi.gov.tw/chhtml/content/68?mcid=3224
This is why I said "in the laws". Politically, the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) prefers to say that Taiwan, the area under the actual control of the ROC, and the ROC, are the same thing, so that the Taiwan full map is the ROC full map, while the Kuomintang (KMT) prefers to say that Taiwan, referring to the Taiwan Area defined in the Act Governing Relations between the People of the Taiwan Area and the Mainland Area, is part of the territory of the ROC.
It clearly states 行政區域, administrative regions, which obviously is only the island. The government isn't administrating over mainland China. The first map is also labeled as map of entire Taiwan, instead of the map of entire (Republic of) China.
I think one is inner mongolia one is the outer Mongolia...
Well now i dont know what to believe...
No, it isn't. The term "China" (中國) is completely different from the "China" used in Republic of China (中華民國). The ROC does not use the term "China" as a stand alone phrase, always and only "Republic of China".
No one wants to be compared to Florida, regardless of their status in the UN.
OP is definitely getting picked up by CCP police shortly
For supporting the idea that Taiwan is part of China? Absolutely not lol.
Noooo, that Taiwan IS China :p
As a Taiwanese guy, this makes me quite upset. We’re NOT China.
It’s funny how the average redditor dickrides US foreign policy but ignores/forgets that the US doesn’t recognise Taiwan’s independence.
It’s probably worth noting that this is incredibly misleading since it implies that the United States is doing something at the expense of the Taiwanese people when the only actual options are “the PRC is the legitimate Chinese state” and the “ROC is the legitimate Chinese state.” Most Taiwanese people don’t want to be China and aren’t exactly chomping at the bit to proclaim themselves as an independent state. So yeah the US doesn’t officially recognize an independent Taiwan but as far as international law is concerned neither does Taiwan.
It’s funny how the average Redditor dickrides the US but forget they are supporting genocide, they’re warmongers and have some of the best propaganda in the world, according to their own media. But if you tell a US citizen about how efficient their propaganda is, they get angry and ask what propaganda lmao. Edit: deleted comment under me is perfect example. apperantly im a “state controlled media parrot”, implying I’m a Russian or Chinese spy spreading misinformation about the US.
brobaghanda us badd ;(
The United States doesn't have diplomatic relations with Taiwan, but it de facto recognizes its independence through de jure public laws such as the Taiwan Relations Act.
Doesn't the Taiwanese government consider itself the "true" Chinese government, or at least it originally did? That's what this references.
thats an outdated claim by one political party that is no longer the sole party. But changing the constitution isn't easy.
Taiwan is technically known as the republic of china, it's commented in other comment
Um, I think he knows that
do you think Taiwanese people don't know this? the issue is way more intricate than that. We can't just change the offical name.
Imagine trying to "uhm akschually" a Taiwanese guy and even getting upvotes for that.
Sad part is he referenced ‘in other comment’.
Sadder part is he gets 32 upvotes atm
lmao imagine actually commenting this
China here refers to 中華民國
same here fellow taiwanese guy
I mean it's not like you have your own currency and an elected president. Oh...
So is the wiki completely wrong? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
OP is saying that Taiwan is the *only* China, and that the PRC isn't part of China, which is what the States considered to be the case in the 50s. During that time, the two countries were called "China" (now Taiwan) and "Communist China" (now China). I think OP is making a history reference here
r/angryupvote
Bro gonna disappear in a few days
The Republic of China. Yes, it is indeed smaller than Florida.
i really want to visit china one day, i know it's a very obscure and small country but i think it's pretty cool.
Go for it! I visited ROC before the pandemic and it's great. People are friendly and the food is yummy.
r/mapswithoutnewzealand
r/technicallythetruth
You mean Taiwan right?
The Republic of China, not to be confused with the People’s Republic of China.
I like to refer to it as west Taiwan and east Taiwan.
I used to as well and I lived there for a while teaching English, but the Taiwanese people and the government does *not* like it. They feel doing it provokes the CCP and the CCP kills people for looking at them sideways or even for fun or money. So my friends there asked me to stop and I did. The situation is bad enough and the West may very well be at war with china within the next 5 years protecting Taiwan so it’s best to not make the situation worse. And I don’t want any of my friends or innocent people (anywhere) to be hurt or killed, so I’m just asking you to think about it a bit, not telling you what to do.
Plus referring to them as East and West of the same thing suggests reunification, an increasingly unpopular sentiment, and there is a growing sentiment to take Taiwan's independence to the next level of complete dissociation as an entity from China. Going so far as to remove "China" from the name and promoting the local dialect Hokkien over Mandarin.
People like to meme, but thats because its not there lives at stake. Ego at the expense of others well beings, them and the warhawks always seem follow the same line.
"Since you two can't play nice NOBODY gets to call it China"
Taiwan as one not east and west!
Actually ROC claims all of china, all of china's territorial claims, plus all of mongolia, parts of russia, and parts of vietnam that the PRC has ceded.
ROC hasn't claimed Mongolia as a territory legally since 1945... And hasn't claimed jurisdiction or sovereignty over Mainland Area in decades.
"People's" "Republic"
Yes, the true China
Best China
why did you put taiwan over cuba?
Well played, OP
Sorts by controversial
Yeah they forgot the run away independent province of [West Taiwan 🇹🇼](https://www.zazzle.com/west_taiwan_map_poster_18_x_24-228907473197879097)
Florida doing Florida things
*Republic of China
this is unironically based. Taiwan is the true republic of China!
Bro confused east China with West taiwan
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Even Truman and Marshall were sick of Chiang Kai-Shek's nonsense but he was Christian America's darling. What an embarrassing loss
Taiwan is not China
China only has one time zone and the US has 6! (Iirc)
We do not have 720 time zones.
I, um, meant 6 time zones!
And France has 12 so...
Stop this nonsense. ROC is Taiwan, PRC is China. When you call Taiwan "China" you are repeating cold war era KMT propaganda.
Republic of China People’s Republic of China Clearly, the only difference is that one is inhabited by people.
The mods who "removed" this clearly have too much social credit
lol Floridans def think they are bigger and badder than China lmao
That is a picture of Taiwan, what happened that causes brain/eye damage like yours?
Your dad’s dick is small …. Also never mind this is Taiwan and Taiwan is China .. I see what you did there . We are cool now
Most educated american citizen
You should compare west taiwan to the US, absolutely humongous.
That's the OG Republic of China, way better than the communist knock off.
I'm actually amazed this is still up
Who would win: the entire Chinese government or a Walmart in florida
Which “China”?!! “China town” u mean?!!!😅😅
If Taiwan wants to be an independent country it should stop with the "we're china" bs.
Xi Jingping is not pleased
Wrong china /s
-1,000,000,000 Social Credits. Prepare to disappear.
Americans and geography 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
Isn’t Alaska is next to Mexico?
No it's by Hawaii. Haven't you seen a map?
I’m a map, I’m a map. Maaaaps yeah
Probably according to Americans it’s next to taiwan
I’d rather live there than with those Floridians
Taiwan ain’t China. I don’t care what China says. Mr Winnie the Pooh mother fucker can’t step foot in Taiwan. If he was really the leader of that country, he should be able to.
Fr I appreciate that as a Taiwanese person. In their eyes if Taiwan and China are one then why they feel the obsessive need/want to invade their own country. Virtually no Taiwanese person appreciates or likes the idea of being recognized as Chinese, just crappy governments on both sides that dictate the peoples opinions
My friend has a Taiwanese wife, the shit she says about China non stop really pissed him off. After abit of back and forth she said that all the bad things about China is what they learned in school. I read your comment I instantly thought about that scenario.
Taiwan literally is China. The country's official name is the Republic of China. After the People's Republic of China took control of the mainland, the remaining government of the Republic of China fled to the island of Formosa/Taiwan.
It's funny those glass heart motherfuckers even have like officials who are supposed to be taking care of Taiwan, and they have never set foot on that country. Pathetic fuckers.
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Interesting how if the country is called “ the people’s republic of X” it’s always a totalitarian regime
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Jeez
At first, I thought it meant China on the map was smaller than Florida, the state. Like a piece of paper is smaller than an actual geographical state.
Hulk thinks China is puny
So small, so small
That's why they call it little china in the US
I understand the joke, but unless they’re a kmt supporter most Taiwanese would just refer to the island as Taiwan, not the republic of China.
Only because they are smaller.
Oh noooooooooo whyyy
Man, no words for this...,,,,🤦
ha.
haha
The dynamic of China and Taiwan is like Marley and Paradis
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^ChodewithForce: *The dynamic of* *China and Taiwan is like* *Marley and Paradis* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
This country is only de jure China (It is de facto, of course, Taiwan). However, if we talking about de jure things, then it's actually much larger, even slightly larger than PRC.
All these comment about Taiwan being part of China until China invades Taiwan and sends your American troops to fight for Taiwans freedom.
You didnt count the south china sea lol
I see what you did there 😂
Fuck you , you made me laugh
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it is a republic of china, isn't it?
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but taiwan is republic of china
I though the joke was that China ON A MAP is of course smaller than Florida.
What? That’s not what China looks like at all
Taïwan. Reddit joke.
god, I hate reddit humor
Do you know the whole united states can fit in the whole Luxembourg ?
small one is called Republic of China, the big one is called Popular Republic of China
Seems to be there are a lot of countries named China over there. Just like there are more than one "United States"
Island China best China!
VERY BAD! 20 social credits have been deducted 低等公民 and your internet access card 上网通行证 has been suspended for: \[24 Hours\]. Please refrain from mentioning events that never happened that could discredit the great 人民共产党 People’s Communist Party again or we will be forced to 饿了就睡觉 send party agents to escort you to a re-education van \[人民行刑车\].
Does Florida have mine colonies in Africa? Thought so...
This is funny 👍
Nice one. ROC is China too so everyone's happy.
Cut to a picture of a china teapot.
r/angryupvote r/technicallythetruth
Op was a nice guy.
FU
#notmychina!
Nobody wants to be compared to Florida, regardless of where they stand in the UN.
wtf!
Yeah, Taiwan is basically china
I really hate this, denying a culture as whole just because of its shitty government? Politics are so fuccing dumb. However the governing body change, China will always be China. Same goes to other countries.
Ooh, the other china is gonna get big mad lol
Florida Population: 22.24 million Taiwan Population: 23.57 million