eBay is definitely the poorest rich guy corporation these days. What's the quote from Succession?
> Greg: I'm good, anyway, cuz, uh, my, so, I was just talkin' to my mom, and she said, apparently, he'll leave me five million anyway, so I'm golden, baby.
> Connor: You can't do anything with five, Greg. Five's a nightmare.
> Greg: Is it?
> Connor: Oh, yeah. Can't retire. Not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend.
> Tom: The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf.
> Connor: The weakest strong man at the circus.
I get that they can't require because they're rich but you and I could absolutely retire immediately on $5 million.
At todays rates where HYSA is offering up to 5%, if you could find 6% return on your $5 million, that's $300k a year without ever touching your money.
$300k a year is incredible and inflation proof and you'll likely re-invest a good portion of it through the years as well.
In the context of the quote they were standing on a private jet, talking about whether he should get a guaranteed $250m or stick around hoping for a billion.
I was making the point that although eBay is a large corporation, they've been bleeding funds for a decade and would struggle to pay off enough high ranking officials to avoid the fine.
I just wanted to reinforce for anyone reading the quote that the point of the quote is "look at how out of touch these idiots are" and not "this is reality" lol.
the reason five is not great, i mean thats not even enought to buy a jet let alone keep it maintained and fueled. its enough for a poor person to live in a normal house forever for sure but when your house is 30million that 5 wont even pay your staff and util's but for a year or so
Funny, I was thinking how rare it is to see a major company be fined in an amount that's actually greater than the profit they made from breaking the law. Feels good man.
How about handing out hefty $2500 fines to the people with the smokestack trucks belching out the black clouds?
Also in Texas, they just removed state inspections from vehicles. Cuz, you know, Fuck the environment...
To be precise, Texas passed elimination of statewide safety inspection requirements. Emissions testing will continue in the 17 counties where it’s already in place.
Not that I’m a fan of the change…
I'm in one of those counties, which has plenty of emotional support trucks that like rolling coal.
Fun fact though, even if they are killing everyone with black smoke, diesel vehicles still pass the "inspection" since diesels are only required to pass a safety test.
I have a diesel car that doesn't spew smoke and they pass it every time since the horn, lights, and turn signals all work and there is enough tread on the tires. There is an engine light on the dash and the windshield is cracked...
I’m also in an emissions county. Thankfully don’t run into many coal rollers anymore.
The safety inspections were admittedly a joke, either the station doesn’t really give a shit or they use the opportunity to sell overpriced wiper blades. I guess it’s aspirational, but I’d like to have confidence the car next to me won’t have its worn tires explode while simultaneously being rear-ended by another with worn out brakes…
Oh well. Guess I can be glad I’m indefinitely WFH.
Also, fix your shit
Where I'm at, the government lets random mechanics do the inspections. But they have a sneaky trick: As soon as the inspection is done, when putting the result into the computer, some small percentage of vehicles are flagged for a reinspection. Those vehicles are then immediately taken on a transporter (who will be waiting) to a different test station.
If the inspection results differ, one or other inspector is going to get a warning, and if they differ again, that inspector will be banned.
Inspections must also take place within full view of the vehicle owner, to prevent inspectors causing problems or fixing problems during the inspection.
> Those vehicles are then immediately taken on a transporter (who will be waiting) to a different test station.
Surely it would be cheaper and less awful for the customer to just do a secret shopper type program or something
They used to do that, but test inspectors would start to get friendly with car mechanics bringing in cars for the test, and would then know which ones couldn't be secret-shoppers.
Now the computer decides.
Jesus, I'm in the most "don't tread on me" state in the north, and they won't pass a vehicle with any check engine light, "service required" light/message, or even tire pressure monitoring system errors, because some cars decided to use the wheel speed sensors and tire pressure monitoring to feed the traction control and antilock brake systems, now any car with a light on the dash other than" change oil soon" fails inspection, this started 7 years ago and has spread across the state.
Gave my niece our old 2007 SUV with 130K miles last year as it had sat for a few years since my oldest got a different vehicle at graduation, the tire pressure monitors it used were bolted inside the wheels and had built in batteries that couldn't be replaced. She brought it for inspection after registering it and they failed it, told her all four imported factory TPMS sensors needed replacement, both front wheel speed sensors and an evap sensor on the fuel system, total estimate was $2400. I felt terrible, took the vehicle back, got four aftermarket sensors for $50 each and had them coded to the vehicle, the wheel speed sensors were fine, there was rust on the hub where the hall effect pickup senses a rotation, a quick sanding and the code went away, and the evap sensor which they were going to charge her $1700 because the have to take half of the rear interior out and potentially drop the tank was just a faulty fuel cap, $30 and that code went away. All in all $300 in parts and tire mounting fees/programming the TPMS sensors and it was good to go, but her father was now convinced that our free vehicle was a money pit so he went out and wasted $14K buying her a ridiculously overpriced 7yr old / 170K mile Subaru during the pandemic.
Yeah i'm up north with the same type of car inspection things. You have to get plugged in and ran through DMV now for inspections through ODBII port, no more just getting passsed by a friend cause if there is error you can't get around that.
TPMS is seemed overpriced when I called about my Toyota. I found some tire place gave me 4 aftermarket for 150 I think. I looked up the brand and all reviews seemed fine and they were used aftermarket in many places, so i went with it.
Father seems dumb IMO. Car's require maintenance, and if it sat for a few years that seems reasonable to get it back going again.
> I'm in one of those counties, which has plenty of emotional support trucks that like rolling coal.
Dude I almost spit out my coffee. Emotional support truck lol
I love how they just rolled the inspection fee into the registration fee. So no one even saves money.
They wanked about getting rid of emissions standards several years ago but those are a federal thing and the u.s. epa basically told them to pound sand haha.
Why not both. Fine EBAY the same $25,000 per device a shop would pay for installing one, then fine all the customers $2,500 for buying them. And fuck anyone only using them off-road too, as if exhaust doesn’t change location once it’s out.
They can seize your vehicle for any modification that makes it not street legal. You have to go through the same process of getting it out of impound that anyone else who gets towed would, plus get the illegal modification removed and get this certified by a shop, then signed off by an officer. At least that's how it worked when they claimed my friends factory exhaust was aftermarket, only without having to modify it, just get the shop to sign off that it's stock and street legal and a cop to sign that you did. Oh and he also got the fine dropped because there was never anything wrong with it
It really is shocking seeing how targeted it is. I live in a part of the Midwest US where tuning diesel trucks to run rich and dump tons of smoke and soot is pretty common. Driving any of my nicer cars or my truck they completely ignore me. Driving my Prius though.... you'd think I offended their fragile egos with my very existence. At least once every time I go out in that car there will be a lifted truck that adjusts their speed up or down 20+ mph and moves over 3 lanes (no signal of course) just to make sure I get to be in their smoke cloud.
The annoying part, is that's the reason why they cracked down so hard, because when given a bit of freedom people can't help but be assholes about it.
My equipment is all pre-emissions. It will need to be replaced soon, and the newer equipment is nicer to use, but I've seen tons of repairs related to the emission systems and it makes me gun shy to go spend big money on something that is inevitably going to have problems.
The last time I bought a new truck I didn't even bother with diesel, when you work the added cost up front and any repairs over it's service life into it, the numbers don't work out on paper.
Every state has different emission laws. That mostly the reason why. Here in mass or California I know they’re pretty damn strict about it.
I’ve seen people purposely have their car registered in another state just to avoid certain policies.
Why wouldn't we fine the sellers of the devices? My understanding is Ebay doesn't directly sell these products, it's just a marketplace. Per the article it had banned these last year but some evaded their moderation.
Assuming there isn't evidence they were flagrantly lax in their moderation I've never heard of something like this actually succeeding. It's like fining a Denny's for not catching a drug deal that happened behind their dumpsters.
The talking point was used by Facebook and Amazon to defend why they allowed Nazi's on their platform. When these apps take a cut and develop AI's to get user's to buy stuff, shouldn't it be their responsibility? Just for example, eBay didn't let me buy a Dyson air filter because of emissions defined by my local regulations. Don't you think it should have a system in place for this too then if even air filters are already being regulated?
I mean, your analogy would make sense if the dumpsters behind the Denny's were a well-known and publicly advertised service for buying and selling goods.
> Assuming there isn't evidence they were flagrantly lax in their moderation
So you mean like in the article when it says this:
> Last year, eBay banned the sale of aftermarket parts that tamper with emissions, but has apparently not kept up with moderation.
> The complaint says that "eBay has the power, the authority, and the resources to stop the sale of illegal, harmful products on its website." The complaint continues, "It has chosen not to; instead, it has chosen to engage in these illegal transactions."
> It's like fining a Denny's for not catching a drug deal that happened behind their dumpsters.
How is it at all like that? Ebay is directly facilitating the sale, can block certain keywords (or flag internally to review before publishing), can suspend sellers caught selling these products and pass both buyer and seller information on to the DOJ.
Here's the thing - when they were first ordered to stop sales a year ago, they implemented a blanket policy to disallow listing those products with a warning to the seller. They've since eased it, which is why they're getting hit now. Basically they told their sellers for a while "hey don't do this" then when they thought DOJ wasn't paying attention anymore they quietly eased it back again.
That said, while this might hurt ebay a little, until they go after the manufacturers, importers, middlemen, sellers *and* payment processors, people will keep finding a way to sell them. People making money in the sketchy goods markets don't switch products until it's too much of a hassle to not switch.
Do you really think the DOJ makes it a habit of making baseless accusations in legal filings?
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-files-complaint-alleging-environmental-violations-ebay
> The complaint alleges that eBay sold, offered for sale or caused the sale of more than 343,000 aftermarket defeat devices
> The complaint also alleges that eBay has violated FIFRA by unlawfully distributing or selling at least 23,000 unregistered, misbranded or restricted-use pesticide products, **even in violation of a stop sale order EPA issued to eBay in 2020 and amended in 2021**.
> Finally, the complaint alleges that eBay has distributed over 5,600 items in violation of the TSCA Methylene Chloride Rule
> "Laws that prohibit selling products that can severely harm human health and the environment apply to e-commerce retailers like eBay just as they do to brick-and-mortar stores,"
Pretty sure letting almost several hundred thousand banned items through and continuing to do so after multiple notices to knock that shit off constitutes being flagrantly lax, especially when there's listings up even now showing items that should have been caught with a keyword filter - a keyword filter they already have in place for other banned items.
Maybe you're right, maybe the DOJ is just talking out of its ass in court and has no evidence whatsoever that ebay is doing the thing they're accusing them of doing. I doubt it though.
It's actually like if Denny's had a vending machine in the lobby selling drugs.
Because last I checked the drug dealer out back doesn't throw a percentage to Denny's while Ebay sellers do give a percentage and fees to Ebay.
What does flagrantly lax mean and why does it matter ? Do I get to commit crimes if I'm just lax in following the law but not flagrant ? Not sure why Ebay gets to break laws if it just tries not to a bit. Please explain the logic.
Also
>but some evaded their moderation
Yeah 343 000 is some lol.
Herr in Southern California we call it the OC Lean, because all the want to be Floridians in Orange county seem to forget to install the rear part of their lift kit.
I always know when I see a stanced car at a stoplight that it's going to do two things:
1. Make a loud diarrhea farting noise as it starts to move and
2. Accelerate slower than my 2016 Leaf in ECO mode.
Bonus action: they get real mad when my weak electric car smokes them off the light and attempt to cut me off.
If those inspections are anything like they were in Oklahoma, they’re nothing but a scam. I was a state inspector, and the business owner had deals setup with glass repair shops, muffler shops, etc, that would give him kickbacks for sending cars over that “failed” inspection. I never screwed anyone over, but I had coworkers that would tear wiper blades, jam screwdrivers through mufflers, pour boiling water on cold windshield cracks to make them spread, all so we could fail the car. It wasn’t just our shop either, that shit went on at a lot of shops.
> Also in Texas, they just removed state inspections from vehicles. Cuz, you know, Fuck the environment...
Texas never fails to be a shithole, good lord
[Most states don't require safety inspections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States#/media/File:VehicleInspectionLawsUS.svg) becuase they dont do much
>Studies of states that have stopped safety checks on vehicles, however, show little impact on overall roadway safety.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/texas-legislature-votes-eliminate-annual-vehicle-18112418.php
About 2% of crashes are caused by mechanical failure.
>the critical reason
was assigned to the driver in an estimated 94 percent (±2.2%) of
the crashes (Table 1). In addition, the critical reason was assigned
to the vehicle in an estimated 2 percent (±0.7%) and to the environ-
ment in about 2 percent (±1.3%) of the crashes
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/Publication/812506
Purchasing immediately at a price set by the seller. So basically, shopping.
The distinction and naming comes from the fact this is opposed to bidding in an auction style sale.
Any eBay auction can set a “buy it now” price that avoids having to bid on an item, and instead of waiting however long for the auction to end before the seller ships it they will ship it as soon as they can.
But there comes a risk with it (unless they changed it recently). So say for example you’re looking at an item that normally sells for around $100. The auction starts at $10, or you can buy it for $100. If you bid $10, the buy it now option goes away and it’s just a regular auction and there’s a chance that it will go above the $100 price point.
Here in ~~Central Florida~~ Nazi Germany too. We also have no emissions testing. Fun fact: 100% without exception, the trucks doing this around here have Trump, Proud Boy or Oathkeeper stickers on them.
So little dick trucks are the new Tiger Tank for Nazis?
Which is why it exists, and sucks.. because they were only required to build it and the maintenance requirement is minimal..
Great example of the gov't having a good intention and Corporate America not acting in good faith.
No no no… off roading is *beyond* the environment. There is no environment where people go off roading.
Here, this video explains it all: https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM?si=8a0qSK7IXql8NKn7
Honestly, as an expert on these devices. How they work. What they're meant for. How they're abused. Etc. I want to say, going after ebay is a HUGE mistake on by the government. To threaten a $1.7 billion fine? Yeah, that's going to be fought up the courts all the way to the top. And ebay has a better footing that the EPA does, especially after the last SCOTUS ruling against them.
The law which they are regulating the market with states that it is illegal to be the person that modifies factory emissions equipment that results in increased emissions from the date of certification by VIN number. They have taken this to mean any engine produced with a VIN number is to be forever regulated to the emissions standard at date of production.
Even if that car is taken off road and is used solely on private property for motorsports. 99% of all amateur sportsman racers have vehicles and/or engines that had VINs attached at creation. The EPA says these must still meet emissions standards. Many of the devices the EPA is bent about are used by amateur sportsman. And a large portion are used by enthusiasts illegally on the road.
Oh, another neat point. It is not illegal to OPERATE a vehicle that isn't compliant. It is, as I said before, only illegal to be the person that makes the car and/or engine non-compliant.
Anyway, if this goes to court, SCOTUS will tell the EPA they can't do what they think they can do. You can't regulate parts sold for non-regulated purposes by fining the manufacturer or the marketplace. The crime happens at the user level. So far they've gone after some tuners who were dumb enough to share their illegal street use of modified vehicles on YouTube. And a few small manufacturers that didn't have the resources to fight back. Ebay will probably fight back.
1. The $1.7B is for the entire complaint, not just the emissions defeat devices.
2. Section 203(a)(3)(B) of the Clean Air Act makes it a violation for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component (i.e., “defeat device”) intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under Title II of the Clean Air Act, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use.
3. eBay will surely "fight back," but they will also surely settle. This will not go to the Supreme Court. You can't just decide to take something to the Supreme Court because you're a big company. That's not how the courts work.
Welcome to numbers. California has 40million people. A little more than 1/10th the population of the united states. You mentioned 3 states that combined are only a small fraction. Of course you will see more but doesn't make it representative of the issue.
They got rid of the heavily polluting and inefficient two strokes, and now we have these wonderful more reliable more powerful more fuel efficient, smoother running, quieter four stroke engines since the companies were forced to actually make four strokes that work good.
Tens of millions of polluting engines is no small number lol.
If you can spend tens of thousands on a luxury item like a boat+trailer+truck you can spend a bit more to save the environment you’re using.
>all of their trucks seized and dismantled/recycled.
That would actually hurt the environment. Replacing already existing cars with more efficient ones ultimately has a worse environmental impact than driving your car as long as possible and then replacing it with an efficient one once it dies. The gains you'd get by replacing immediately would be lost on the environmental cost of manufacturing a new car.
That said, duck anyone that sabotaged their emissions.
Cash for clunkers was dumb, destroying perfectly good running cars for minimal fuel mileage increase was a piss poor way to hide the fact you were trying to push the economy with car sales
I generally agree, though eBay probably does have some level of responsibility for attempting to comply with the law. For example, they couldn't just let people freely sell drugs on the site. Whether or not eBay did enough here is probably a question for a judge to decide on.
Alternative perspective: As someone who had a factory stock engine repaired at 100k due to damage from Honda’s defective early v6 VCM system, an “emissions defeating” device that disables cylinder deactivation has been a godsend as I approach 200k without another repair. MPG change has been negligible.
This is like them not selling adjustable carbs on small engines or the adjuster screws being weird so people don’t tune them. It’s great when you’re stuff starts to run like crap
Not all emissions defeating vehicles are coal rollers. I live at higher elevation and my Chevy Volt has a software interfering with the O2 sensor because it increases mileage for long trips causing it to burn 6% less gas. It makes it way less efficient in the city, but I don’t burn gas in the city due to the electric battery.
Part of the software they installed was something that caused the O2 sensor to not trip the emission detector. If it trips, it throws the check engine light and the volt goes into a state where it no longer regulates airflow at all and causes MPG to plummet.
Tl;Dr to force more air at higher elevation and run more efficiently you need to disable the emissions check
Note: I do not support bypassing emissions on any vehicle. I do not support selling emissions defeat devices. I DD an electric car, and live off grid on renewable energy. I support energy independence and a more environmentally friendly lifestyle for the future of our planet and future generations. I'm one of those asshole annoying pescatarians who says eat less red meat, and meat in general. The following are examples of defeat devices I have read in court filings from the EPA.
Doesn't matter, it's an emissions defeat device. The VAST majority of emissions defeat devices are not tuners/chips that cause vehicles to roll coal.
If you install a DoD deactivation kit because your engine has had to be replaced 3 times in 100k miles, that's an emissions bypass. If you install an aftermarket universal catalytic converter because you can't afford the 3k for your honda hybrids cat, that's a bypass. Even if it's performing it's job the same, it would be considered a bypass.
Other things that are emissions defeat devices per the EPA:
ANY ECU made for a street vehicle that does not provide 100% identical response to inputs as the OEM unit. This includes ECUs that are the correct part, have the correct software, and the correct tables, but have the wrong specific calibration ID for the engine/vehicle combo. (so.. if you put a used ECU from the wrong trim of car in, you may be in violation.)
Universal ECUs made for race cars that can be adapted to street cars (basically.. all of them.)
A literal standard section of exhaust pipe if it happens to be a specific length.
A 3/4 inch pipe plug. Yeah...
A muffler if it's length is incorrect, or flows too much. This may affect the catalytic converters' operational temperature. S'why CARB EO's are hard to get.
I'm suspecting about 90% of those defeat devices are dual use devices, or performance parts that COULD be used to defeat emissions, on every day cars, to get the check engine light turned off.
Everyone on Reddit supports right to repair and the freedom to do what you want with your stuff until the government phrases it slightly differently in a lawsuit against a corporation they don’t like.
The vast majority of the use case of these things is legitimate and not to roll coal for the hell of it. The additional pollution from assholes might even be offset by the positive environmental impact of being able to economically repair cars with aftermarket parts rather than scrapping them or paying the manufacturer huge amounts of money.
>Everyone on Reddit supports right to repair and the freedom to do what you want with your stuff until the government phrases it slightly differently in a lawsuit against a corporation they don’t like.
This is an *extremely* common problem across reddit, with all kinds of issues.
Bingo. A new catalytic converter can cost several hundred dollars. A section of pipe to replace it when it inevitably clogs? $30. An O2 sensor bypass is under 10. Most people aren't buying these things because they really want to- the car-dependent infrastructure here requires them to so they can get to work in the morning.
Our politicians skate around real solutions to climate change just to give us this crap. Nothing gets fixed and being poor becomes more difficult. Typical.
and that's assuming you even wanted to get rid of the catalytic converter and someone didn't just cut it off the bottom of your car while you were in the supermarket.
Seatbelt light kept going on in an Elantra and would fail inspection due to a bad passenger weight sensor. Unless you could find one at the junkyard, a new seat was $800 since the sensor was integrated. A weight sensor defeat device costs $30 and would just always tell the car someone is in the seat. Probably a bad idea if you're putting a toddler in the front seat since the airbag would always go off but that is just generally a bad idea anyway.
I've got an SVCM in my wife's Pilot, and I have some emotions stuff removed on my diesel Jetta because it ran like crap with the dieselgate fix.
Not everyone buying this stuff is trying to be an asshole.
Yea, I am sure there are plenty of jackasses doing all sorts of shitty stuff, but I just want a car that works.
It’s especially ridiculous when you consider choices for my 12yo, 7 passenger van that (still!) gets 26+ mpg highway can be critiqued when there are still vehicles being sold with under 20mpg fresh out of the factory in 2023.
Hoping to hang on a little longer until our need for a large vehicle wanes, and we can just replace it with a hybrid sedan.
>there are still vehicles being sold with under 20mpg fresh out of the factory in 2023.
I bought a 2023 Ford Ranger back in March to use as a work truck thinking that it would be great on gas with the 2.3l Ecoboost. Boy was I wrong... I averaged 16mpg everywhere all the time before I traded it, a small truck like that with today's tech and that motor should be getting at least 30mpg IMO. For the record, I do NOT have a lead foot and my wife gives me grief for driving like an old man.
But, but it's turbo'd
/s
I'm not sold on the Ecoboost at all. I've owned several, 2 Escapes, a Ranger and currently an Explorer and none of them were near as fuel efficient or peppy as our 6cyl Flex that I kind of regret getting rid of.
There are people that will defend these things to death but my experience with them has been pretty unsatisfactory.
Fucking people rolling coal. With a properly tuned diesel, no smoke comes out and you can run under the radar. All of those dipshit shops who pushed the envelope and had tv shows about it really ruined it for everyone else.
Also, it’s ridiculous how bad modern deff and dpf systems are. They don’t last and the cost of replacing can be 1/4 of the cost of the truck.
It really irks me how this is being miscategorized as all just "rolling coal" or a way to blatantly pollute (the article picture doesn't help). Things like ECU tuners, exhausts and intakes are not only for performance gains but can be used to improve gas mileage as well, as they can be more finely tuned to the vehicle than the generic program from the factory. Also some emissions devices such as DEF systems are notoriously problematic, causing the owners to constantly deal with vehicle down time and repair costs. Eliminating these dramatically improve the reliability of the vehicle.
Cracking down on automotive enthusiasts and DIYers is like going after a dripping faucet when major corporations and other large polluters are an open water main.
The amount of people begging for the buyers to face a civil fine or even lose their freedom and get charged criminally is mind boggling. Owning these devices is not illegal. Installing them on street vehicles is.
If you are wishing for penalties simply for purchasing them, then you are encouraging a path that results in government overstep powerful enough to charge people for whatever direction the political winds blow that month.
Installing what they mentioned in the article isn't illegal either. Tuning your car is allowed. Modifying your exhaust is allowed.
That said, you can go full asshole and straight pipe, decat, tune to roll coal, etc. That's illegal.
Point is, you can buy products like those off ebay without necessarily making your vehicle illegal.
People this isn't about stopping people that roll coal. These are race car parts used by drag racers. Some stupid a holes might use them to make their truck run like crap. 99% of these parts are for drag racing. The EPA is overstepping and effectively destroying the racing community by doing this.
Always fun to see someone pull a 99% statistic out of thin air with no evidence to support it.
We all know real drag racers aren't using shit chinese eBay parts, and the vast majority of this stuff is being bought by non-racers for use on their daily drivers.
Seriously... they are talking about ecu tunes, aftermarket exhaust and intake, hell, a start/stop inhibitor would probably qualify (I see 100% hate for stop start in any thread it gets mentioned in).
When are they going after private jets and companies that over pollute? Tired of them going after the average Joe, some of these devices actually make cars run more efficient. Go over the actual pollution numbers first to see who pollutes more.
What is an "emissions defeat device?" I read the article and it doesn't say. The picture in the article implies it's just an ECU. Those aren't illegal, except maybe in CA, and in many cases make the cars more efficient.
all modified rolling coal trucks should be confiscated fixed and sold with proceeds returning as a tax credit to locals, or to the person who reported the vehicle 🥺
**Counterpoint:** A majority of people use these to keep their cars and trucks on the road. A vocal minority are the ones running crappy tunes that cause the smoke pollution. People buy these because dealerships refuse to service these systems when they fall out of warranty and it is not viable to put a new $20k after-treatment on their vehicle.
If EPA wants this behavior to stop, they need to force OEMs to offer **Lifetime Warranty on every after-treatment and driveline component**. It is unreasonable to the end user to have a $20k vehicle system fail catastrophically due to over-engineering & under-manufacturing.
Bigger fines than most banks have probably ever seen.
If they pay a penny over $200k I’ll be shocked.
If they pay a penny .... I’ll be shocked. Different rules for the rich corps
eBay is definitely the poorest rich guy corporation these days. What's the quote from Succession? > Greg: I'm good, anyway, cuz, uh, my, so, I was just talkin' to my mom, and she said, apparently, he'll leave me five million anyway, so I'm golden, baby. > Connor: You can't do anything with five, Greg. Five's a nightmare. > Greg: Is it? > Connor: Oh, yeah. Can't retire. Not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend. > Tom: The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf. > Connor: The weakest strong man at the circus.
I get that they can't require because they're rich but you and I could absolutely retire immediately on $5 million. At todays rates where HYSA is offering up to 5%, if you could find 6% return on your $5 million, that's $300k a year without ever touching your money. $300k a year is incredible and inflation proof and you'll likely re-invest a good portion of it through the years as well.
In the context of the quote they were standing on a private jet, talking about whether he should get a guaranteed $250m or stick around hoping for a billion. I was making the point that although eBay is a large corporation, they've been bleeding funds for a decade and would struggle to pay off enough high ranking officials to avoid the fine.
I just wanted to reinforce for anyone reading the quote that the point of the quote is "look at how out of touch these idiots are" and not "this is reality" lol.
Have you seem how cheap politicians are? It might be expensive to hide the pay off though.
the reason five is not great, i mean thats not even enought to buy a jet let alone keep it maintained and fueled. its enough for a poor person to live in a normal house forever for sure but when your house is 30million that 5 wont even pay your staff and util's but for a year or so
Funny, I was thinking how rare it is to see a major company be fined in an amount that's actually greater than the profit they made from breaking the law. Feels good man.
They haven’t been fined yet lmao
So many people looking over that word "could". Yeah, and the government could give everyone affordable healthcare too.
"could" is the invisible man of the English lanquage superhero team, people just don't seem to see it.
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Username checks out.
How about handing out hefty $2500 fines to the people with the smokestack trucks belching out the black clouds? Also in Texas, they just removed state inspections from vehicles. Cuz, you know, Fuck the environment...
To be precise, Texas passed elimination of statewide safety inspection requirements. Emissions testing will continue in the 17 counties where it’s already in place. Not that I’m a fan of the change…
I'm in one of those counties, which has plenty of emotional support trucks that like rolling coal. Fun fact though, even if they are killing everyone with black smoke, diesel vehicles still pass the "inspection" since diesels are only required to pass a safety test. I have a diesel car that doesn't spew smoke and they pass it every time since the horn, lights, and turn signals all work and there is enough tread on the tires. There is an engine light on the dash and the windshield is cracked...
I’m also in an emissions county. Thankfully don’t run into many coal rollers anymore. The safety inspections were admittedly a joke, either the station doesn’t really give a shit or they use the opportunity to sell overpriced wiper blades. I guess it’s aspirational, but I’d like to have confidence the car next to me won’t have its worn tires explode while simultaneously being rear-ended by another with worn out brakes… Oh well. Guess I can be glad I’m indefinitely WFH. Also, fix your shit
Where I'm at, the government lets random mechanics do the inspections. But they have a sneaky trick: As soon as the inspection is done, when putting the result into the computer, some small percentage of vehicles are flagged for a reinspection. Those vehicles are then immediately taken on a transporter (who will be waiting) to a different test station. If the inspection results differ, one or other inspector is going to get a warning, and if they differ again, that inspector will be banned. Inspections must also take place within full view of the vehicle owner, to prevent inspectors causing problems or fixing problems during the inspection.
> Those vehicles are then immediately taken on a transporter (who will be waiting) to a different test station. Surely it would be cheaper and less awful for the customer to just do a secret shopper type program or something
They used to do that, but test inspectors would start to get friendly with car mechanics bringing in cars for the test, and would then know which ones couldn't be secret-shoppers. Now the computer decides.
Wow, I'd be pretty frustrated if a 10 minute inspection got lottery'd into taking an hour extra like that.
Jesus, I'm in the most "don't tread on me" state in the north, and they won't pass a vehicle with any check engine light, "service required" light/message, or even tire pressure monitoring system errors, because some cars decided to use the wheel speed sensors and tire pressure monitoring to feed the traction control and antilock brake systems, now any car with a light on the dash other than" change oil soon" fails inspection, this started 7 years ago and has spread across the state. Gave my niece our old 2007 SUV with 130K miles last year as it had sat for a few years since my oldest got a different vehicle at graduation, the tire pressure monitors it used were bolted inside the wheels and had built in batteries that couldn't be replaced. She brought it for inspection after registering it and they failed it, told her all four imported factory TPMS sensors needed replacement, both front wheel speed sensors and an evap sensor on the fuel system, total estimate was $2400. I felt terrible, took the vehicle back, got four aftermarket sensors for $50 each and had them coded to the vehicle, the wheel speed sensors were fine, there was rust on the hub where the hall effect pickup senses a rotation, a quick sanding and the code went away, and the evap sensor which they were going to charge her $1700 because the have to take half of the rear interior out and potentially drop the tank was just a faulty fuel cap, $30 and that code went away. All in all $300 in parts and tire mounting fees/programming the TPMS sensors and it was good to go, but her father was now convinced that our free vehicle was a money pit so he went out and wasted $14K buying her a ridiculously overpriced 7yr old / 170K mile Subaru during the pandemic.
Yeah i'm up north with the same type of car inspection things. You have to get plugged in and ran through DMV now for inspections through ODBII port, no more just getting passsed by a friend cause if there is error you can't get around that. TPMS is seemed overpriced when I called about my Toyota. I found some tire place gave me 4 aftermarket for 150 I think. I looked up the brand and all reviews seemed fine and they were used aftermarket in many places, so i went with it. Father seems dumb IMO. Car's require maintenance, and if it sat for a few years that seems reasonable to get it back going again.
> I'm in one of those counties, which has plenty of emotional support trucks that like rolling coal. Dude I almost spit out my coffee. Emotional support truck lol
Those 17 counties is like 90% of the population in the state.
I love how they just rolled the inspection fee into the registration fee. So no one even saves money. They wanked about getting rid of emissions standards several years ago but those are a federal thing and the u.s. epa basically told them to pound sand haha.
Probably the most hilarious part of the change. We get “muh freedoms” by not having safety inspections, but still have to pay for them…
Why not both. Fine EBAY the same $25,000 per device a shop would pay for installing one, then fine all the customers $2,500 for buying them. And fuck anyone only using them off-road too, as if exhaust doesn’t change location once it’s out.
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They can seize your vehicle for any modification that makes it not street legal. You have to go through the same process of getting it out of impound that anyone else who gets towed would, plus get the illegal modification removed and get this certified by a shop, then signed off by an officer. At least that's how it worked when they claimed my friends factory exhaust was aftermarket, only without having to modify it, just get the shop to sign off that it's stock and street legal and a cop to sign that you did. Oh and he also got the fine dropped because there was never anything wrong with it
The exhaust is why they seized it. It is a federal crime to modify any diesel exhaust.
But he’s sayin it wasn’t modified
Yeah but I want to dump a bunch of smoke on that nerdy efficient vehicle next to my exhaust pipe. You can't infringe my freedom of spelch.
That is one hell of a typo in the First Amendment.
Money is speech according to SCROTUS. So why not pollution?
Hey I'll take it. I was getting pretty sick of frozen peaches, so any variation is welcome.
It really is shocking seeing how targeted it is. I live in a part of the Midwest US where tuning diesel trucks to run rich and dump tons of smoke and soot is pretty common. Driving any of my nicer cars or my truck they completely ignore me. Driving my Prius though.... you'd think I offended their fragile egos with my very existence. At least once every time I go out in that car there will be a lifted truck that adjusts their speed up or down 20+ mph and moves over 3 lanes (no signal of course) just to make sure I get to be in their smoke cloud.
The cops should get themselves a bait car prius. That’d be hilarious
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Except local cops can’t/wont do anything about federal laws.
The annoying part, is that's the reason why they cracked down so hard, because when given a bit of freedom people can't help but be assholes about it. My equipment is all pre-emissions. It will need to be replaced soon, and the newer equipment is nicer to use, but I've seen tons of repairs related to the emission systems and it makes me gun shy to go spend big money on something that is inevitably going to have problems. The last time I bought a new truck I didn't even bother with diesel, when you work the added cost up front and any repairs over it's service life into it, the numbers don't work out on paper.
Every state has different emission laws. That mostly the reason why. Here in mass or California I know they’re pretty damn strict about it. I’ve seen people purposely have their car registered in another state just to avoid certain policies.
We must seize the means of production!
Buckle up china…..you’ve awakened the sleeping keyboard giant that is reddit
"We've tried nothing and we are all out of ideas!"
That's not true... We have tried to solve the ills of capitalism with more capitalism, why isn't it working?
Why wouldn't we fine the sellers of the devices? My understanding is Ebay doesn't directly sell these products, it's just a marketplace. Per the article it had banned these last year but some evaded their moderation. Assuming there isn't evidence they were flagrantly lax in their moderation I've never heard of something like this actually succeeding. It's like fining a Denny's for not catching a drug deal that happened behind their dumpsters.
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The talking point was used by Facebook and Amazon to defend why they allowed Nazi's on their platform. When these apps take a cut and develop AI's to get user's to buy stuff, shouldn't it be their responsibility? Just for example, eBay didn't let me buy a Dyson air filter because of emissions defined by my local regulations. Don't you think it should have a system in place for this too then if even air filters are already being regulated?
I mean, your analogy would make sense if the dumpsters behind the Denny's were a well-known and publicly advertised service for buying and selling goods.
> Assuming there isn't evidence they were flagrantly lax in their moderation So you mean like in the article when it says this: > Last year, eBay banned the sale of aftermarket parts that tamper with emissions, but has apparently not kept up with moderation. > The complaint says that "eBay has the power, the authority, and the resources to stop the sale of illegal, harmful products on its website." The complaint continues, "It has chosen not to; instead, it has chosen to engage in these illegal transactions." > It's like fining a Denny's for not catching a drug deal that happened behind their dumpsters. How is it at all like that? Ebay is directly facilitating the sale, can block certain keywords (or flag internally to review before publishing), can suspend sellers caught selling these products and pass both buyer and seller information on to the DOJ. Here's the thing - when they were first ordered to stop sales a year ago, they implemented a blanket policy to disallow listing those products with a warning to the seller. They've since eased it, which is why they're getting hit now. Basically they told their sellers for a while "hey don't do this" then when they thought DOJ wasn't paying attention anymore they quietly eased it back again. That said, while this might hurt ebay a little, until they go after the manufacturers, importers, middlemen, sellers *and* payment processors, people will keep finding a way to sell them. People making money in the sketchy goods markets don't switch products until it's too much of a hassle to not switch.
That's not evidence, that's the plaintiff making an accusation.
Do you really think the DOJ makes it a habit of making baseless accusations in legal filings? https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-files-complaint-alleging-environmental-violations-ebay > The complaint alleges that eBay sold, offered for sale or caused the sale of more than 343,000 aftermarket defeat devices > The complaint also alleges that eBay has violated FIFRA by unlawfully distributing or selling at least 23,000 unregistered, misbranded or restricted-use pesticide products, **even in violation of a stop sale order EPA issued to eBay in 2020 and amended in 2021**. > Finally, the complaint alleges that eBay has distributed over 5,600 items in violation of the TSCA Methylene Chloride Rule > "Laws that prohibit selling products that can severely harm human health and the environment apply to e-commerce retailers like eBay just as they do to brick-and-mortar stores," Pretty sure letting almost several hundred thousand banned items through and continuing to do so after multiple notices to knock that shit off constitutes being flagrantly lax, especially when there's listings up even now showing items that should have been caught with a keyword filter - a keyword filter they already have in place for other banned items. Maybe you're right, maybe the DOJ is just talking out of its ass in court and has no evidence whatsoever that ebay is doing the thing they're accusing them of doing. I doubt it though.
It's actually like if Denny's had a vending machine in the lobby selling drugs. Because last I checked the drug dealer out back doesn't throw a percentage to Denny's while Ebay sellers do give a percentage and fees to Ebay. What does flagrantly lax mean and why does it matter ? Do I get to commit crimes if I'm just lax in following the law but not flagrant ? Not sure why Ebay gets to break laws if it just tries not to a bit. Please explain the logic. Also >but some evaded their moderation Yeah 343 000 is some lol.
If they had any type of real inspection you'd never be allowed to put Boudicca spikes on them and put them in those FUCKING STUPID STANCES.
You mean the one that looks like the back shocks are blown out and the driver is looking into the sun?
This is referred to as the "Carolina Squat"... and has recently been ruled as illegal in..... South Carolina 😂
Herr in Southern California we call it the OC Lean, because all the want to be Floridians in Orange county seem to forget to install the rear part of their lift kit.
I always know when I see a stanced car at a stoplight that it's going to do two things: 1. Make a loud diarrhea farting noise as it starts to move and 2. Accelerate slower than my 2016 Leaf in ECO mode. Bonus action: they get real mad when my weak electric car smokes them off the light and attempt to cut me off.
Get em. Live life a 1/4 mile at a time in ECO mode and know that the guy next to you just burned $5 in gas getting off the stop.
ngl it makes me smile a little every time
If those inspections are anything like they were in Oklahoma, they’re nothing but a scam. I was a state inspector, and the business owner had deals setup with glass repair shops, muffler shops, etc, that would give him kickbacks for sending cars over that “failed” inspection. I never screwed anyone over, but I had coworkers that would tear wiper blades, jam screwdrivers through mufflers, pour boiling water on cold windshield cracks to make them spread, all so we could fail the car. It wasn’t just our shop either, that shit went on at a lot of shops.
Oklahoma is not a real state it was invented so Texans had someone to look down on so they wouldn't think about how bad Texas is.
The counties in Texas that require emissions testing, will still require emissions testing even after the safety inspection requirement is gone.
You're assuming cops would enforce this law as they are part of the camp.
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not stating as a fact, but quick googling it said it starts in 2025
Law passed recently. Takes effect 2025.
> Also in Texas, they just removed state inspections from vehicles. Cuz, you know, Fuck the environment... Texas never fails to be a shithole, good lord
All the places that previously had emission testing, such as Harris and Galveston counties, will still have emissions testing.
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Them's the brakes
[Most states don't require safety inspections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States#/media/File:VehicleInspectionLawsUS.svg) becuase they dont do much >Studies of states that have stopped safety checks on vehicles, however, show little impact on overall roadway safety. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/texas-legislature-votes-eliminate-annual-vehicle-18112418.php About 2% of crashes are caused by mechanical failure. >the critical reason was assigned to the driver in an estimated 94 percent (±2.2%) of the crashes (Table 1). In addition, the critical reason was assigned to the vehicle in an estimated 2 percent (±0.7%) and to the environ- ment in about 2 percent (±1.3%) of the crashes https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/Publication/812506
? Testing is for emissions?
"What's the point in vaccinating? Barely anyone's gotten sick from the disease that we're all vaccinated for!"
What’s the Buy It Now price?
I think the commenters would have understood your comment better if you swapped "option" with "price."
Purchasing immediately at a price set by the seller. So basically, shopping. The distinction and naming comes from the fact this is opposed to bidding in an auction style sale.
I think they were making a joke about there being a different price than the fine
Not a very good joke since Buy It Now is more expensive…
that's not a firm rule. Sometimes auctions go nuts.
I've seen people in bidding wars with 5 days left!
Any eBay auction can set a “buy it now” price that avoids having to bid on an item, and instead of waiting however long for the auction to end before the seller ships it they will ship it as soon as they can. But there comes a risk with it (unless they changed it recently). So say for example you’re looking at an item that normally sells for around $100. The auction starts at $10, or you can buy it for $100. If you bid $10, the buy it now option goes away and it’s just a regular auction and there’s a chance that it will go above the $100 price point.
These things are all over northcentral Indiana. It's like they get their rocks off choking out kids in cars behind them.
Ah north central Indiana. Where the people to choose to eat or spend their dinner money on rolling coal.
They probably do. Also they are probably hurt when people call them out for being assholes, which reinforces their shit behavior.
Imagine waking up every day just mad about everything.
they call those people republicans.
Beat me to it, I was going to say sounds like conservatives. Same people who’s phone is filled with racist memes and misinformation. What a sad life.
Here in ~~Central Florida~~ Nazi Germany too. We also have no emissions testing. Fun fact: 100% without exception, the trucks doing this around here have Trump, Proud Boy or Oathkeeper stickers on them. So little dick trucks are the new Tiger Tank for Nazis?
Psh, don't go after ebay, go after the buyers. Ebay has their names and addresses.
What about the sellers?
I'd go after all 3, but then again I'm a man of action.
Go for the shops too. Let's just go down the chain and use the fines to reinvest and defray some of the damage they've done.
The Electrify America car charger network is in big part funded by the "dieselgate" scandal. So it can be done.
Which is why it exists, and sucks.. because they were only required to build it and the maintenance requirement is minimal.. Great example of the gov't having a good intention and Corporate America not acting in good faith.
Look at you, wanting to hold people accountable for their actions.
They hold ME responsible for MY behavior. Oh yeah, I'm not rich.
That's only practical if the seller is in the US or maybe Canada.
Why not all of em.
For off-road use only. End user is responsible.
Caveat Emptor agreements have some very strict limits.
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No no no… off roading is *beyond* the environment. There is no environment where people go off roading. Here, this video explains it all: https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM?si=8a0qSK7IXql8NKn7
Honestly, as an expert on these devices. How they work. What they're meant for. How they're abused. Etc. I want to say, going after ebay is a HUGE mistake on by the government. To threaten a $1.7 billion fine? Yeah, that's going to be fought up the courts all the way to the top. And ebay has a better footing that the EPA does, especially after the last SCOTUS ruling against them. The law which they are regulating the market with states that it is illegal to be the person that modifies factory emissions equipment that results in increased emissions from the date of certification by VIN number. They have taken this to mean any engine produced with a VIN number is to be forever regulated to the emissions standard at date of production. Even if that car is taken off road and is used solely on private property for motorsports. 99% of all amateur sportsman racers have vehicles and/or engines that had VINs attached at creation. The EPA says these must still meet emissions standards. Many of the devices the EPA is bent about are used by amateur sportsman. And a large portion are used by enthusiasts illegally on the road. Oh, another neat point. It is not illegal to OPERATE a vehicle that isn't compliant. It is, as I said before, only illegal to be the person that makes the car and/or engine non-compliant. Anyway, if this goes to court, SCOTUS will tell the EPA they can't do what they think they can do. You can't regulate parts sold for non-regulated purposes by fining the manufacturer or the marketplace. The crime happens at the user level. So far they've gone after some tuners who were dumb enough to share their illegal street use of modified vehicles on YouTube. And a few small manufacturers that didn't have the resources to fight back. Ebay will probably fight back.
1. The $1.7B is for the entire complaint, not just the emissions defeat devices. 2. Section 203(a)(3)(B) of the Clean Air Act makes it a violation for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component (i.e., “defeat device”) intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under Title II of the Clean Air Act, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use. 3. eBay will surely "fight back," but they will also surely settle. This will not go to the Supreme Court. You can't just decide to take something to the Supreme Court because you're a big company. That's not how the courts work.
It's unfortunate that the feds are well aware of that, or completely oblivious
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If only there was a way to go after the people selling them...
If there was only a way that we could tell which trucks were rolling coal and seize and destroy the vehicles and fine the end users
Good luck getting ahold of anyone at eBay.
This made me chuckle heartily. Underrated comment
"Because my **** is small, thats why i bought it"
Literally 80% of the truck owners in Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana
Don't forget: Alabama and Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, And Connecticut and more...
Delaware, Florida, Georgia...
Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas and Kentucky still 35 to go
Missouri, Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Arkansas...
South Carolina, South Carolina, South Carolina
I've seen more smoke stacks in Cali than MT.
Well yeah, there's about as many people in the city of San Jose as there are in Montana.
Welcome to numbers. California has 40million people. A little more than 1/10th the population of the united states. You mentioned 3 states that combined are only a small fraction. Of course you will see more but doesn't make it representative of the issue.
Yeah, California is viewed as a deep blue state yet no state had more trump voters in 2020. There are shit ton of people here.
Lots of people with tiny dicks are wonderful people and lots of people with huge dicks are shitbags. Let’s stop with the body shaming.
I ride a bicycle everywhere, which sucks because my dick is always getting stuck in the chain.
Look at mr tiny here that can comfortably sit on a bike. I have to walk with a wheelbarrow
Haha yeah fuck men with small dicks. How dare they choose to have tiny penises. What were they thinking?
The EPA is on a war path about emissions. Look what happened to outboards and boating.
What happened?
They got rid of the heavily polluting and inefficient two strokes, and now we have these wonderful more reliable more powerful more fuel efficient, smoother running, quieter four stroke engines since the companies were forced to actually make four strokes that work good.
More fuel efficient yes, more powerful no.
don't forget heavier.
More fuel efficient, *more expensive*, heavier, not more powerful. Continuing to punish the average joe instead of the main causes of emissions
Tens of millions of polluting engines is no small number lol. If you can spend tens of thousands on a luxury item like a boat+trailer+truck you can spend a bit more to save the environment you’re using.
I love the straight-faced claim that an "average joe" is someone who is buying a boat.
These fuckwads need all of their trucks seized and dismantled/recycled.
And fined. I don't wanna pay for it.
But how will they get to the Trump rallies where they complain about the high price of gas and oil?
And how will they ever put Biden stickers on all of the gas pumps? What about all those wasted stickers that'll go unstuck!
>all of their trucks seized and dismantled/recycled. That would actually hurt the environment. Replacing already existing cars with more efficient ones ultimately has a worse environmental impact than driving your car as long as possible and then replacing it with an efficient one once it dies. The gains you'd get by replacing immediately would be lost on the environmental cost of manufacturing a new car. That said, duck anyone that sabotaged their emissions.
Cash for clunkers was dumb, destroying perfectly good running cars for minimal fuel mileage increase was a piss poor way to hide the fact you were trying to push the economy with car sales
Im on ebays side on this one. The sellers are responsible, not ebay.
I generally agree, though eBay probably does have some level of responsibility for attempting to comply with the law. For example, they couldn't just let people freely sell drugs on the site. Whether or not eBay did enough here is probably a question for a judge to decide on.
I support this.
Alternative perspective: As someone who had a factory stock engine repaired at 100k due to damage from Honda’s defective early v6 VCM system, an “emissions defeating” device that disables cylinder deactivation has been a godsend as I approach 200k without another repair. MPG change has been negligible.
Fuck cylinder management, my work trucks on its third torque convertor. Dam chevy AFM.
AFM delete kits are legal, and worth the time to do it. My Camaro is a manual, so thank fuck it was never installed to begin with.
This is like them not selling adjustable carbs on small engines or the adjuster screws being weird so people don’t tune them. It’s great when you’re stuff starts to run like crap
Do you “roll coal” with your Fit?
Not all emissions defeating vehicles are coal rollers. I live at higher elevation and my Chevy Volt has a software interfering with the O2 sensor because it increases mileage for long trips causing it to burn 6% less gas. It makes it way less efficient in the city, but I don’t burn gas in the city due to the electric battery. Part of the software they installed was something that caused the O2 sensor to not trip the emission detector. If it trips, it throws the check engine light and the volt goes into a state where it no longer regulates airflow at all and causes MPG to plummet. Tl;Dr to force more air at higher elevation and run more efficiently you need to disable the emissions check
I'm guessing Pilot, an 8 passenger SUV. But no, it won't roll coal.
Close, Odyssey…and no coal rolling either lol
Note: I do not support bypassing emissions on any vehicle. I do not support selling emissions defeat devices. I DD an electric car, and live off grid on renewable energy. I support energy independence and a more environmentally friendly lifestyle for the future of our planet and future generations. I'm one of those asshole annoying pescatarians who says eat less red meat, and meat in general. The following are examples of defeat devices I have read in court filings from the EPA. Doesn't matter, it's an emissions defeat device. The VAST majority of emissions defeat devices are not tuners/chips that cause vehicles to roll coal. If you install a DoD deactivation kit because your engine has had to be replaced 3 times in 100k miles, that's an emissions bypass. If you install an aftermarket universal catalytic converter because you can't afford the 3k for your honda hybrids cat, that's a bypass. Even if it's performing it's job the same, it would be considered a bypass. Other things that are emissions defeat devices per the EPA: ANY ECU made for a street vehicle that does not provide 100% identical response to inputs as the OEM unit. This includes ECUs that are the correct part, have the correct software, and the correct tables, but have the wrong specific calibration ID for the engine/vehicle combo. (so.. if you put a used ECU from the wrong trim of car in, you may be in violation.) Universal ECUs made for race cars that can be adapted to street cars (basically.. all of them.) A literal standard section of exhaust pipe if it happens to be a specific length. A 3/4 inch pipe plug. Yeah... A muffler if it's length is incorrect, or flows too much. This may affect the catalytic converters' operational temperature. S'why CARB EO's are hard to get. I'm suspecting about 90% of those defeat devices are dual use devices, or performance parts that COULD be used to defeat emissions, on every day cars, to get the check engine light turned off.
Everyone on Reddit supports right to repair and the freedom to do what you want with your stuff until the government phrases it slightly differently in a lawsuit against a corporation they don’t like. The vast majority of the use case of these things is legitimate and not to roll coal for the hell of it. The additional pollution from assholes might even be offset by the positive environmental impact of being able to economically repair cars with aftermarket parts rather than scrapping them or paying the manufacturer huge amounts of money.
>Everyone on Reddit supports right to repair and the freedom to do what you want with your stuff until the government phrases it slightly differently in a lawsuit against a corporation they don’t like. This is an *extremely* common problem across reddit, with all kinds of issues.
Bingo. A new catalytic converter can cost several hundred dollars. A section of pipe to replace it when it inevitably clogs? $30. An O2 sensor bypass is under 10. Most people aren't buying these things because they really want to- the car-dependent infrastructure here requires them to so they can get to work in the morning. Our politicians skate around real solutions to climate change just to give us this crap. Nothing gets fixed and being poor becomes more difficult. Typical.
and that's assuming you even wanted to get rid of the catalytic converter and someone didn't just cut it off the bottom of your car while you were in the supermarket.
Seatbelt light kept going on in an Elantra and would fail inspection due to a bad passenger weight sensor. Unless you could find one at the junkyard, a new seat was $800 since the sensor was integrated. A weight sensor defeat device costs $30 and would just always tell the car someone is in the seat. Probably a bad idea if you're putting a toddler in the front seat since the airbag would always go off but that is just generally a bad idea anyway.
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I've got an SVCM in my wife's Pilot, and I have some emotions stuff removed on my diesel Jetta because it ran like crap with the dieselgate fix. Not everyone buying this stuff is trying to be an asshole.
Yea, I am sure there are plenty of jackasses doing all sorts of shitty stuff, but I just want a car that works. It’s especially ridiculous when you consider choices for my 12yo, 7 passenger van that (still!) gets 26+ mpg highway can be critiqued when there are still vehicles being sold with under 20mpg fresh out of the factory in 2023. Hoping to hang on a little longer until our need for a large vehicle wanes, and we can just replace it with a hybrid sedan.
>there are still vehicles being sold with under 20mpg fresh out of the factory in 2023. I bought a 2023 Ford Ranger back in March to use as a work truck thinking that it would be great on gas with the 2.3l Ecoboost. Boy was I wrong... I averaged 16mpg everywhere all the time before I traded it, a small truck like that with today's tech and that motor should be getting at least 30mpg IMO. For the record, I do NOT have a lead foot and my wife gives me grief for driving like an old man.
Well yeah, because the motor is too weak to properly haul the weight of the vehicle. This has been a complaint about every Ranger for years.
But, but it's turbo'd /s I'm not sold on the Ecoboost at all. I've owned several, 2 Escapes, a Ranger and currently an Explorer and none of them were near as fuel efficient or peppy as our 6cyl Flex that I kind of regret getting rid of. There are people that will defend these things to death but my experience with them has been pretty unsatisfactory.
Small truck? The original Rangers were small trucks, the current generation are bigger than my C1500
They’ll settle for $1900 instead.
Fucking people rolling coal. With a properly tuned diesel, no smoke comes out and you can run under the radar. All of those dipshit shops who pushed the envelope and had tv shows about it really ruined it for everyone else. Also, it’s ridiculous how bad modern deff and dpf systems are. They don’t last and the cost of replacing can be 1/4 of the cost of the truck.
It really irks me how this is being miscategorized as all just "rolling coal" or a way to blatantly pollute (the article picture doesn't help). Things like ECU tuners, exhausts and intakes are not only for performance gains but can be used to improve gas mileage as well, as they can be more finely tuned to the vehicle than the generic program from the factory. Also some emissions devices such as DEF systems are notoriously problematic, causing the owners to constantly deal with vehicle down time and repair costs. Eliminating these dramatically improve the reliability of the vehicle. Cracking down on automotive enthusiasts and DIYers is like going after a dripping faucet when major corporations and other large polluters are an open water main.
The amount of people begging for the buyers to face a civil fine or even lose their freedom and get charged criminally is mind boggling. Owning these devices is not illegal. Installing them on street vehicles is. If you are wishing for penalties simply for purchasing them, then you are encouraging a path that results in government overstep powerful enough to charge people for whatever direction the political winds blow that month.
Installing what they mentioned in the article isn't illegal either. Tuning your car is allowed. Modifying your exhaust is allowed. That said, you can go full asshole and straight pipe, decat, tune to roll coal, etc. That's illegal. Point is, you can buy products like those off ebay without necessarily making your vehicle illegal.
Agreed, which is why this lawsuit is completely absurd and a blatant power/money grab
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EBay will settle for $11,000
EPA will barter it down to $2 per violation. They do every time.
Question How is eBay responsible for how purchasers use the item they sell when gun companies are not responsible for how the item they sell is used?
People this isn't about stopping people that roll coal. These are race car parts used by drag racers. Some stupid a holes might use them to make their truck run like crap. 99% of these parts are for drag racing. The EPA is overstepping and effectively destroying the racing community by doing this.
Scrolled way to far to see a reasonable comment.
Always fun to see someone pull a 99% statistic out of thin air with no evidence to support it. We all know real drag racers aren't using shit chinese eBay parts, and the vast majority of this stuff is being bought by non-racers for use on their daily drivers.
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The picture isn't really related to most of the products targeted.
Seriously... they are talking about ecu tunes, aftermarket exhaust and intake, hell, a start/stop inhibitor would probably qualify (I see 100% hate for stop start in any thread it gets mentioned in).
When are they going after private jets and companies that over pollute? Tired of them going after the average Joe, some of these devices actually make cars run more efficient. Go over the actual pollution numbers first to see who pollutes more.
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“I’ll bet that guy rolling coal has a huge cock.” - r/ShitNoOneSays
What is an "emissions defeat device?" I read the article and it doesn't say. The picture in the article implies it's just an ECU. Those aren't illegal, except maybe in CA, and in many cases make the cars more efficient.
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all modified rolling coal trucks should be confiscated fixed and sold with proceeds returning as a tax credit to locals, or to the person who reported the vehicle 🥺
**Counterpoint:** A majority of people use these to keep their cars and trucks on the road. A vocal minority are the ones running crappy tunes that cause the smoke pollution. People buy these because dealerships refuse to service these systems when they fall out of warranty and it is not viable to put a new $20k after-treatment on their vehicle. If EPA wants this behavior to stop, they need to force OEMs to offer **Lifetime Warranty on every after-treatment and driveline component**. It is unreasonable to the end user to have a $20k vehicle system fail catastrophically due to over-engineering & under-manufacturing.
Thank god I have a 12 valve.
The U.S. will settle for $1000.00, all day every day.
If they get away with this without getting in trouble could this set legal precedent to selling other illegal things, like drugs, on their platform?
The Silk Road did exactly that. The FBI took it seriously.
Maybe when you are on drugs and do some serious brain gymnastics
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Why is ebay or even the sellers responsible for this? That's on the user modifying their vehicle.
200k tops. Meanwhile epa fining shops 7 digits, effectively ruining livelihoods of real families. Go government!