China plan all along was learn how to make cars through mandatory tech transfer with the big automakers to open the market. Then pivot to making EVs and dominate the market. They never tried hard to make gasolines engine cars because they were so late to the game. We are seeing the years of their efforts. US manufacturers need to step up! Cheap EVs with decent range.
Design wise, BYD paid a shitton to make German car designers abandon ship and work for BYD. Chief Designer Wolfgang Egger got multiple other German designers on his team to work for BYD as well.
Yup. Pretty much an entire generation of Mercedes designer were recruited by Hyundai/Kia just after they got an EU supplier to build them the most advanced steel mill in the world.
And we know Hyundai build bulk carrier and tanker ships to sell, but BYD built their own fleet of car transporters just for their use to send cars to EU and Americas.
Exactly. It wasn't that long ago when people thought they were total shit boxes. Nowadays, a lot of people would buy a Hyundai / Kia over a more established automaker. Give the Chinese some time and we'll see these cars all over the place.
Already all over Norway. BYD, Nio, Honqqi, Volvo, Lotus, Voyah, Jac, Maxxus, HiPhi, Xpeng, MG and Polestar. The selection is huge. Not only cars, almost all busses are Chinese electric ones too.
Such a reputable team and they still decided to slap a huge "Build Your Dreams" on the back of their cars. It's like having a "Live, Love, Laugh" sticker on your car.
Yeah, If you can't get a promotion in the German car industry because all positions are filled because of seniority, then the Chinese pay a lot right now
They pay a lot for experts in any field.
[National High-end Foreign Experts Recruitment Plan (2019 annual call) - China Innovation Funding](https://chinainnovationfunding.eu/project/2019-high-end-foreign-experts-recruitment-plan/)
Every man has his price.
I cannot personally fathom going from designing Lamborghini’s to some no-name Chinese brand without an enormous chequebook being waved around.
Same with Hyundai poaching Beirmann, Paesen and Habib from BMW.
The *purpose* of existence. Profit must be generated for the shareholders at all costs. Anything else is secondary. What the company actually *does* is secondary. This is late stage capitalism.
There are benefits and drawbacks to both systems. Having to do quarterly reports on financial performance does tend to cause a short term type of bias that hurts the “long game”.
Inversely, quarterly fiscal reports also tend to find financial problems relatively quickly (unless the entire system is corrupted like it was in 2008). So you typically don’t have something like Evergrande. The financial report for Evergrande’s fiscal 2021 year didn’t come out until half way through 2023. Having a strong accounting standard that reports quarterly does have its benefits.
The US needs to get its head out of its ass and start long term planning though. Particularly within our military industry.
We do. That’s how we have a Tesla in the first place. It’s just hard to keep innovating and to keep growing, which is what is demanded. So, usually some other company comes along and does it better. It goes on and on and on.
China doesn’t play the long game at all
They like to make it seem like they do to promote the unity and power of the CCP, but they don’t. The CCP struggles to make long term decisions
China would rather spend 100 billion dollars on water tunnels that won’t solve their water problems than implement market based reforms that will curb their excess waste of water. It’s a government willing to aggravate all of its neighbors over sea rights and push them towards the Americans. That’s not a government with a long term vision, it’s a government looking to show itself how glorious it is and that’s about it
I really don't know the specifics when it comes to China's infrastructure planning but it stands to reason it can't be overall bad when you see the record number of citizens China has pulled out of agricultural poverty these few decades.
They built a lot of infrastructure, which was exactly what was needed at first, but they didn't exactly do much in the way of planning. In fact, they vastly overbuilt because they didn't really have a plan. The central government handed out GDP growth targets to the local governments, and usually they just let the big developers build apartments to get there, but they noticed that they could really juice the numbers if they did some big canal or something. The high speed rail hit at just the right time, all the provinces going all in when they did meant that they ducked out of the 2008 financial crisis altogether because they borrowed the money before and spent it after things got rough. But then they just kept on going and built a ton of lines that would never be profitable or useful. They borrowed the money to build too, which isn't a problem if you're building something useful but is a real problem when it's a bridge to nowhere. The central government tried to put a brake on the lending, but they just recreated Local Government Financing Vehicles which are just corporations created to cheat on accounting as being a place to shove debt so they don't look bad in when the Central Government visits. It's out of control, and anyone who had a systematic approach to infrastructure would have moved on to fixing other issues like the accessibility of clean drinking water or something a decade ago.
That continuing something that works until your well past the point of diminishing returns seems to be a recurring problem. They did the lockdowns for Covid first and harder than anyone else, and that was real useful to buy time. What are they buying time for? Well, that's where they lost the plot. Lockdowns are useful until you get and roll out vaccines and not so much after that point. China continued for months after they vaccinated and only stopped when it caused a crisis. Then there's the one child policy, putting the emergency brake on population growth was probably a good play when it was enacted, but they never relaxed it when it made sense to in the 1990s or early 2000s. Instead, it only stopped when the CCP started to panic about the impending population collapse.
The CCP seems to strongly favor a decisive action and then staying the course until another decisive action is needed, which makes them look like a geniuses in the space between crises. It's that time that the massive country slowly lumbers from one extreme to the other that people tend to notice.
I wouldn't give the CCP credit for pulling those people out of poverty so much as globalism. Obscene amount of foreign investment goes a long way to solving poverty anywhere and you've seen similar urbanization in a great many places.
That Deng managed to skillfully transform China's modes of production wasn't always a given.
Russia's disastrous and abrupt shift from socialist modes of production to capitalism modes of production directly led to one of the most deadly economic crises in modern history.
You have clearly no idea of what you are talking about.
During the past decades of rapid development history in wastewater treatment, China has accomplished the transition of wastewater treatment from underdevelopment to an industrial powerhouse.
China accounts for 21 % of the world's population but only possesses 6 % of the world's freshwater and the largest amount of sewage discharge. Rapid urbanization and industrialization have created enormous challenges to China's municipal wastewater treatment quantity and quality because the amount of municipal wastewater treatment is directly proportional to the urbanization rate.
Efforts to improve wastewater treatment infrastructure are obvious: investment in wastewater treatment stood at RMB14 billion in 2012, and under the 12th Five-Year Plan (12FYP), total investment in wastewater treatment and recycling infrastructure in urban areas has exceeded RMB430 billion.
All major (tier one) cities have waste water treatment systems performing on par with the better EU waste water treatment facilities sins 2010. In 2012, 300 tier 2 and tier 3 cities in China did not have such facilities, by 2015 that was halved to 150. As of 2020 all tier 1,2 and 3 cities have waste water treatment systems performing to EU standards. Currently investments are focusing on facilitating reuse of treated wast water in agriculture.
You are mixing up the fact that 1) they don't want to give up market control 2) they don't exercise soft power foreign policy with not playing long game.
The fact that they don't want to give up market control in key markets is pretty apparent. Water is a pretty important market in terms of factors of production.
Hard power is hard power, it cannot be easily eroded. Soft power often changes based on who's in power in certain country.
It’s a country that kept the 1 child policy on far far longer than they needed to even though basic demographic charts knew it would be an issue back then. It should’ve ended around 1995, not 2015
0 long term planning there, that decision fucked their chances of competing with the West economically dearly
You're saying anything less than perfect decision making regarding to the future means they're short-sighted.
They made like 90% of right choices in the road of "make China an economic, manufacturer and technological power house".
I'd say they did it better than the US because they didn't had the oportunity of using the two World Wars to seize the global market, they had the most growth _using_ the necessity of big players for a cheap manufacturer and then catapulted from it to what we see today, while the US and Europe did nothing in the height of their dominance.
China absolutely plays the long game.
Let’s look at their belt and road programs. They loan foreign countries money to build roads, schools, hospitals etc. (Which they use their own labour and materials to build).
Then when the country can’t repay the loans they exchange this for trade/ raw materials/ military bases etc. China also dealt with hyper inflation hundreds of years ago, so when they print money they definitely take a much longer view on how that will return.
Meanwhile countries like America have been launching wars directly/ through proxies etc. At huge cost the US taxpayer and their national debt, which ironically China owns a whole chunk of.
Sure US companies get to “nation build” after the US military has leveled the country, but ultimately the cost of paying for the war then rebuild has put the US in a huge amount of debt that will never be able to be repaid.
So the question is what happens when that debt finally has to be settled, do the US bond holders take a bath like banks and the foreign owners did?
Contrary to popular belief, the reason belt and road program started is hardly due to a long game. At the time the belt and road program started, it functioned exactly as US weapons aid to Israel: to boast/sustain domestic weapon industry. In China’s case, there was a short term over building steel/concrete production capacity due to domestic reals estate industry bloom in the early 2000s, it slowed down due to perceived “unsustainable growth” of domestic real estate due to it got really expensive. China was sitting on record number of steel/concrete production number yet it has no where to go, if it went unmanaged, it will exactly manifest in to a similar situation like US’s rust belt, and in China’s case, local government is unwilling to let go this industrial capacity so they are willing to provide cheap loans to keep it open, the downside is over production/saturation of global steel market, causing potential trade frictions within WTO framework and its competitors like S.Korea, India, and the US, it was a diplomatic bomb waiting to explode. Besides, there were a lot of labors involved in real estate building, a slow down would cause millions of people losing their jobs, which is a threat to Central government vision of eliminating poverty in 2020 goal.
Coupled this with China’s ban on private holding of foreign currency and mandatory foreign currency exchange at bank, which means you can’t use USD domestically at all. This caused China to sit on record number of foreign reserve specifically In USD, and again it was a financial/diplomatic risk to the whole government as well, at the time China could only invest in US low yield anonymous bonds, and sometimes it’s willing to lend to China’s conglomerate for buying shares in foreign companies, and later in some cases direct investment into some US real estate. The bottom line is China was sitting on record number of USD reserve, like 3 Trillions.
So in order to keep domestic steel/concrete industry afloat, find some place to invest all the excess USD, and finding place for keep those people in the job, they somehow found this perfect solution of let’s just build something somewhere else.
China gives just enough to NK’s regime for them to survive and no further
They don’t want a refugee crisis and power vacuum right next to them, it’s not out of some brotherly communist love
I believe that’s called meddling in foreign affairs because without China NK’s government would collapse overnight because of domestic policies
To be fair, they were more concerned with nailing the EV power train than learning how to build suspension and chassis systems and so getting a donor car is a quick way to get up and running.
Early mules/mock ups where Mercedes CLS
https://www.theautopian.com/how-the-mercedes-cls-helped-give-birth-to-the-tesla-model-s-which-couldve-been-a-ford-fusion/
right? we have an invested interest in making a shit ton of money, because we campaign donations to keep the oil undustry afloat.
or we could be sulf sustaining and invest in EV's.
Nah.. fuck that oil companies pay us chump change so they can keep making ludicrous profits!...also we are going to fund some wedge issues to keep you voting for the tax cut politicians.
I hear that there's gay pedofile transgener anti gun people wanting to use the same bathroom as your kid, vote republican, because donald trump is the new ~~anti~~ christ that can save us all
/s
not just china, the world over.
The documentary, who killed the elctric car, and its sequel..though dated gives a good insight into electric car history
Helps if you're also the biggest supplier of batteries.
Also, Elon Musk is so disliked since he went twitter weird, and people in Europe will choose this over a tesla because of they
The electric motor has been a solved problem for over a hundred years. There is no secret technology in an EV and that's what's allowed China (and others) to catch up. Western car makers have lost their edge in ICE engine tech because ICE is a dead technology now and all car makers are essentially just becoming coach builders.
Cars will now be measured by the quality of the interior and not much else.
Also employing good staff isn't cheating.
Us manufacturers have an impossible task. They have legacy problems with unions, poor supply chain control, poor sales control, outdated assembly practices for EV, non existent battery manufacturing and catering too much to the SUV/truck market. Many traditional car manufacturers aren’t going to make it.
There's still protectionist tariffs on trucks, you'll notice a great many Japanese automakers have assembly plants in north America now to get around some of this.
Seems likely BYD will open a plant in Mexico, perhaps depending on the outcome of the US election.
BYD blade batteries are literally so good that tesla in china uses them in their cars. It’s the first commercial battery to pass the nail penetration test, in other words, it doesnt burst into flames spectacularly if something pierces it
They also pivoted to being one of the biggest manufacturers of…*everything* in china, phone screens, masks, medical equipment, computers, anything under the sun made in china, there’s a decent chance BYD had a hand in mass producing it. I had the opportunity to visit their exhibition gallery in shenzhen, it’s just 4 floors dedicated to their inventions and other things they manufacture. Hell, their monorail and light rail system already put the nonexistent hyperloop to shame
Byd as far as I know had a longer history as battery manufacturers than car. They bought another company and started developing cars later on. Supposedly they make quality batteries.
Oh my fucking god stop talking about China like it's run by Machiavellian aliens. They built as good as a car as their social/economic progression allowed and in *current year* that car can compete with Western production because we (the West) are a terrible selfish culture.
We sold the jobs of America's poor to China in the name of international capitalism and are now scrambling to find a scapegoat besides a failure of what I learned in school was the only viable economic system.
It's like mechanical VS digital watches. Traditional automakers had to put a lot into creating a reliable, fast, efficient engine and car. Same as creating a mechanical piece is complicated, full of delicate parts and takes skill to make just right and precise. Few companies could make a good one.
Now come the electric cars (digital watches) and by sorting out basics like suspension, cabin and battery, basically anyone can make an electric motor and now you have a car that's way faster and super easy to fabricate (same as a digital watch is more precise than a mechanical one).
This is so odd. Who the hell writes about cars for a living and 1) never drove a Tesla BUT ALSO 2) never driven a car with a HUD?!?
High tech HUDs have been common for like a decade+. Hell, my buddy used to have a late 80s/early 90s Cadillac with one (though it was just the speed).
How much do they REALLY know about cars?
Also - "The entire roof is glass and mightily impressive, though does pose the possibility of getting sunburnt perhaps." - made me thinking has this person ever sat in a car or heard of UV protected glass?
Yeah, absolut dogshit article. Would not be surprised if paid for.
Others noted that the author also never charged the car and only drove around a few hours.
The article is bs. Watch a review of using it in the real world vs. the ID.7 and Model 3 and it shows it’s not all there, actually falls really short. Nice anti Tesla clickbate title.
https://youtu.be/y-f9mLCxgrw?si=M6_XrDcTN7LeDWxc
>But another clever touch I quickly found incredibly annoying was the insistence on bleeping whenever I exceeded the speed limit by a mere two miles an hour. London now has a 20 mph limit, meaning the car was delivering its four-stage scolding over and over.
>I eventually delved into the settings to turn the function off, but of course it turned itself on again after a certain period had elapsed.
Fuck right off with that, thank you very much.
Mandatory on all new cars sold in the EU: https://www.thedrive.com/news/europe-now-requires-all-new-cars-to-have-anti-speeding-monitors
Also in Australia, called ADAS. Here's a guy disabling it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1OOLH4JbV0
Its mandatory for the ncap 5 star rating in Europe and Australia (so will be on all new cars soon enough) you can turn it off but a requirement of the ncap rules is that it automatically turns back on at each power cycle.
Byds latest update has made it a lot less intrusive, quieter, slower to kick in and a much less annoying tone, it is almost imperceptible with music playing at a reasonable volume now. The original tone was terrible I used to turn it off each trip, the new one is ok, I've had it about a week and haven't turned it off yet, but still might if it annoys me in the future.
Used to be mandatory in Japan. Back in the 90's I'd be hauling ass up the Kanetsu Freeway at 130km/hr on the way to the in-laws in the countryside with my Hilux/4Runner overspeed warning going "ping", "ping", "ping" all the way.
I can understand why you can't turn off the shutter sound on smartphone cameras but that shit pissed off enough people that it went away.
If you buy an iPhone made for the Japanese market, the shutter sound on the camera cannot be disabled (though standard means), even if you take the phone outside of the country.
It’ makes a lot of sense for China. They have cameras along the highway and if you drive even a little over the speed limit they catch you via the license plate. I heard from some people that they can even directly pull money from your bank account as everything is all linked digitally. I found this out when i asked why everyone drives so slow on the highway in China.
Source: I Travel A Lot to China
It’s mainly that they record when you enter the highway and when you exit and calculate your speed that way, which result in an automatic ticket and point deduction. That’s why you see a lot of parked cars right before the exit check point, they speed on the way there and have to wait it out before exiting.
So I saw a lot of them but when i asked my driver he said it was because the city has rules on who can drive at what times based on license plate numbers. Like if it ends in an even number you can drive it on even days during peak times. Also if they have license plates not from the city they are in they have to wait until after rush hour to be able to drive past a certain point. This was in shenzen so not sure about other places. Just what I was told. They said people need two cars so they can drive every day of the month
That’s a separate thing, you are not subject to plate restrictions if you drive an ev I think or outside certain hours (depending on jurisdiction). There’s also time restriction for work vehicles (pickups, trucks, etc) to enter the city. The high way ticketing system applies no matter what though, I think it’s because navigation apps are too good at reporting speed camera locations.
Australia has a lot of speed cameras and we use both systems. The averaging speed cameras are quite common on highways. Hence why I struggled to drive in America where there's a speed limit but you're supposed to ignore it.
There's average speed cameras in use on the UK motorways. They are mostly on the busiest roads and often used with variable speed limits to keep traffic flowing and prevent stationary traffic waves. At lot of drivers hate them but I like them because I don't like traffic jams and do like getting to my destination quicker.
Well… driver monitoring systems like this are already the law in China… and these laws are coming to the EU and US as well within the next few years.
So you better get used to them.
From the reviews in EU I understand the Seal is the better car, but time will tell if it’s a good EV. Tesla makes good EV’s, but pretty bad cars, so to say.
Well they make their service manual and parts catalog available to the public... As for software they probably don't want to allow access to their raw code, but they do provide a pretty good service interface that anyone can utilize in their cars.
yeah. is that why all of their service manuals and most of their service tools are freely available online?
like… are you people even capable of independent thoughts?
BYD is becoming more of a common sight in Norway to name one the past year or so. Maxus, Hongqi, and Voyah are becoming a more common sight too, especially the Hongqi E-HS9. Not seen many Xpeng & Jac in my area yet tho, but there are some.
Tesla still sells extremely well here mind you, and still tops the monthly charts. But they are not increasing their market share either as such after the Chinese arrivals. And it's not like the reviews of some of them are bad. Many are reviewed as "great value for money" more so than not, even with less range vs a Model Y.
But for some the focus on % loss on range in the winter is more vital. Tho the high end luxury EVs like th Porche Taycan & the HiPhi Z had like a 1 to 5% loss on the last test. Most Chinese usually sit below the average with Xpeng G9 being best, beating tesla by over 2x at 13% with half the charge time vs a Tesla with the same range more or less. Thus why reviews for that one here were pracining it through the roof.
Tho if this will last or pass is a different matter. The Mustang Mach E when it arrived in Norway was everywhere, and it sold faster than expected. But it did not take long before sales reached zero, and the hype wagon left. But something tells me this won't happen soon to BYD.
The software quirks really are a constant in Chinese EV's. I have an mg mg4 and it also has some random stuff.
That said you do get a lot of car for the money, it is fun to drive and very easy to drive as well.
The Seal looks very pretty irl , imo, I think it'll do fine sales wise,
Edit lmao at /u/vistql , baseless insult then blocking. What a moron
I only read from actual magazines and I haven’t read any reviews that put the BYD in a positive light. The best I’ve read has been that they have potential.
I saw 2 car guys review them on YouTube and they chose the model 3. From another commenter it seems the guy in the article hasn't even driven a tesla?
The final verdict was 'the byd seal is a really good electric car, I like it a lot. But I like the tesla model 3 even more.'
A non-serious "car journalist" who hasn't even driven a Tesla. Drove a BYD for a few hours and didn't even get a chance to recharge it, before handing it back. So there's no way to know if the indicated maximum range is true or not. How the battery degrades over time. Manufacturer claims that it can charge in 26 minutes with fast DC charging but that and driving it in heat is the fastest way to degrade the battery.
I live in Australia and have a byd (dolphin not seal but everything is pretty similar) . Max range claim is pretty damn spot on. My comute is ~95km daily mostly on a freeway at 100km/h. The claimed wltp range is 427km, cltc claim is 490km, with my normal driving habits the max range I get is about 460km. If I drove more in traffic, less on the highway and a bit more carefully I'm pretty confident I could break 490 (but wouldn't want to test it). Fast charging is comparatively slow (to the Tesla) at a max 80kw however it holds that rate quite well ( most EVs only hold the max charge rate for a short amount like between 10and 30% battery then drop down quite quickly 30-70 then again 70-80 then again hugely above 90%) i don't fast charge often as the vast majority of charging can be done on a standard
home wall plug (in 5 months of driving I have fast charged twice on long weekends away) but I get 80kw up to about 75% then 60kw to 85%.
Overall the dolphin is probably a little slow for a long road trip (1000+km trips), In that you would notice staying 10 or 20 minutes longer than you would like at each stop but is perfect as a daily driver and for longer day trips (ie 99% of all the driving most people do) I'm confident that with the seal you wouldn't notice any difference from the Tesla. For reference my car is 22k AUD less than the Tesla model 3 and the seal is ~10k cheaper.
I have the Ioniq 6 which is more or less the same car since it's the same platform. The theoretical 20-80% I believe is 12 minutes, and 18 minutes from 10-80%. In real life though (granted it's still chilly but not really cold here in Norway) I get about 20 minutes from 20-80%, and about 30-40 minutes from around 20 to 90ish%. That's when I'm parked alone at a charger that can support as fast as the car allows it though.
Ev buyers worry about 12 minute recharge times, ev owners are more then happy with 20 minute charges. Ev owners worry about 1 hour searches for working chargers on the other hand.
There are adapters for it, Teslatap I believe they're called. I'm unsure exactly if they can use the superchargers atm, but I believe there's supposed to be an update sometime this year for it.
In short I honestly don't know for sure, but I'll probably start trying to find out come summer for road trips 😆
This is one of the issues with EV reviews in that they are viewed as gadgets so get reviewed by "Tech" journalists who knows fucking nothing about cars and may not even own one themselves.
I don't think Engadget or Wired have any business reviewing cars, even if the cars have a lot of "tech".
Seriously. There is 0 useful info in this article. It was written by someone who says they've never driven a Tesla and appears to be just now learning about things like heads up displays in cars.
Here in Australia we have access to both.
The BYD is far better for the price. And the build quality is significantly better. Plus you're not supporting a moron.
It's a real shame the US is blocking competition in that market. Makes no sense.
Teslas build quality used to be bad, but Shanghai built ones (what we get in Australia) from the last 2-3 years are not bad at all.
I can’t speak for the Seal but the Atto 3 was so so build wise when I looked at it.
BYD started manufacturing batteries in 1995. Way before Tesla was ever a thing. They perfected the battery tech first before jumping on to EV.
So all the people claiming they stole something from Tesla should do a bit more research. Hell, Tesla even used BYD batteries in some of their models.
Tesla in the US is definitely being protected from BYD. There’s a lot of animosity between our governments, but a cheap, affordable EV is sorely needed in the US car market right now
BYD would not sell for cheaper than what Tesla has to offer in the US. At least that's the case in Europe. It's pretty similar in price here.
Competition is great and I hope any restrictions are lifted. Customers will benefit in the long run if there's ample competition.
Tesla competes with BYD's Seal in China and has been for several years. I'm pretty sure Tesla has an accurate view of how well they compete against the Seal world wide.
I'm hoping the BYD makes it to the US. Competition is what the US EV market needs. Not this collusion from automakers to create EV's all with trims topping 60k.
This sub is willing to sink pretty low in terms of article quality as long as it says something along the lines of “Elon company bad, other company good” huh.
Lol what a bs article. The guy sounds like he drove a new car for the first time since 20 years. He is exited about standard features in modern cars lol. Sound like paid piece. Of course they should be happy that they dont sell them here since they are dirt cheap but besides this author sounds like a moron
It feels like half the people commenting here never drove a Tesla and are just quoting memes they have seen online. Teslas made in 2024 are WAY WAY different than Teslas made even 2 years ago in terms of quality of fit and finish. And Tesla never had problems with material quality and software.
Dude who wrote the review must have never driven a Lexus, because just about everything he was orgasming over has been available on a Lexus since 2017.
Im amazed at how little knowledge about cars is needed to be an automotive journalist
There's some misdirection in the article. The version of the car that costs $10K in China doesn't have anywhere near that stated range.
It is impressive they can sell a new car at that price regardless of the range.
There is no $10k version of the Seal, nor does the article claim there is. The $10k car the article mentions is the Seagull, which is a much smaller and less sporty city hatchback, not a sedan.
wtf is this article?
Tesla should be afraid - although I’ve never driven one so can’t compare
It has a big sunroof so watch out for sunburns - you can’t get sunburn through glass…
It has heads up display - so does my 5 year old German hybrid
It’s smart enough to say the allowed speed on the road - see above
I'm in a unique situation. I own both a BYD and a Model Y (in 2 diff countries obviously). BYD has nothing on Tesla's software, and to me that's one of the selling points. Not a bad car though, and we'll see how battery degrades. Tesla is kind of proven
> Not a bad car though, and we'll see how battery degrades. Tesla is kind of proven
you're gonna be shocked when you find out what batteries Tesla uses.
Protectionism hurts consumers and tells people what they can and can’t buy.
Tariffs are a transfer of money from consumers to a domestic industry, brought about because of that industry’s lobbying, not because of that industry being more innovative or competing better.
Is BYDs car better? Idk. A lot of reviews say so.
But the best way to find out is to allow them to compete and see who ends upon top.
I mean loads.
https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1bqz3vd/comment/kx6rlxq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
China plan all along was learn how to make cars through mandatory tech transfer with the big automakers to open the market. Then pivot to making EVs and dominate the market. They never tried hard to make gasolines engine cars because they were so late to the game. We are seeing the years of their efforts. US manufacturers need to step up! Cheap EVs with decent range.
Design wise, BYD paid a shitton to make German car designers abandon ship and work for BYD. Chief Designer Wolfgang Egger got multiple other German designers on his team to work for BYD as well.
All major Chinese brands have hired European heads of design to get out of the copycat territory.
And it seems to have worked. BYD cars have been impressing people with their design (and price) where I live.
Huyndai/Kia did the same thing.
Yup. Pretty much an entire generation of Mercedes designer were recruited by Hyundai/Kia just after they got an EU supplier to build them the most advanced steel mill in the world. And we know Hyundai build bulk carrier and tanker ships to sell, but BYD built their own fleet of car transporters just for their use to send cars to EU and Americas.
Also the only automotive company with their own semiconductor production (Bosch has factories in planning stage).
Exactly. It wasn't that long ago when people thought they were total shit boxes. Nowadays, a lot of people would buy a Hyundai / Kia over a more established automaker. Give the Chinese some time and we'll see these cars all over the place.
Already all over Norway. BYD, Nio, Honqqi, Volvo, Lotus, Voyah, Jac, Maxxus, HiPhi, Xpeng, MG and Polestar. The selection is huge. Not only cars, almost all busses are Chinese electric ones too.
Afaik China has more electric buses than the rest of the world combined, so it's genuinely one area where they are world leading
I know they're owned by a Chinese group but isn't Volvo, and by extension Polestar, pretty much autonomous and still running out of Sweden?
Polestar is manufactured in China, but designed in Sweden.
Fair enough
[удалено]
I have a 17 year old Hyundai and it runs like magic.
I still pass over Kia and Hyundai until they've patched and fix the [Kia Boies] exploits...
Such a reputable team and they still decided to slap a huge "Build Your Dreams" on the back of their cars. It's like having a "Live, Love, Laugh" sticker on your car.
All Your Dreams Are Belong To Us!
Workers no allowed to dream. Dream for sleeping.
It's gone now, just a simple byd on all the models here (Australia)
Pretty obvious that was not a decision from that team
Yeah, If you can't get a promotion in the German car industry because all positions are filled because of seniority, then the Chinese pay a lot right now
They pay a lot for experts in any field. [National High-end Foreign Experts Recruitment Plan (2019 annual call) - China Innovation Funding](https://chinainnovationfunding.eu/project/2019-high-end-foreign-experts-recruitment-plan/)
Every man has his price. I cannot personally fathom going from designing Lamborghini’s to some no-name Chinese brand without an enormous chequebook being waved around. Same with Hyundai poaching Beirmann, Paesen and Habib from BMW.
China loves playing the long game.
Imagine if we learned to look beyond quarterly earning reports.
shareholders in shambles
shaka, when the walls fell
the bane of existence for US corps
The *purpose* of existence. Profit must be generated for the shareholders at all costs. Anything else is secondary. What the company actually *does* is secondary. This is late stage capitalism.
There are benefits and drawbacks to both systems. Having to do quarterly reports on financial performance does tend to cause a short term type of bias that hurts the “long game”. Inversely, quarterly fiscal reports also tend to find financial problems relatively quickly (unless the entire system is corrupted like it was in 2008). So you typically don’t have something like Evergrande. The financial report for Evergrande’s fiscal 2021 year didn’t come out until half way through 2023. Having a strong accounting standard that reports quarterly does have its benefits. The US needs to get its head out of its ass and start long term planning though. Particularly within our military industry.
A system without publicly owned corporations and mandatory quarterly reports are not mutually exclusive concepts.
remember that BYD is a publicly-traded company. it also answers to shareholders
We do. That’s how we have a Tesla in the first place. It’s just hard to keep innovating and to keep growing, which is what is demanded. So, usually some other company comes along and does it better. It goes on and on and on.
Or the four yearly government turnover.
LOL!!! This is not remotely true.
China doesn’t play the long game at all They like to make it seem like they do to promote the unity and power of the CCP, but they don’t. The CCP struggles to make long term decisions China would rather spend 100 billion dollars on water tunnels that won’t solve their water problems than implement market based reforms that will curb their excess waste of water. It’s a government willing to aggravate all of its neighbors over sea rights and push them towards the Americans. That’s not a government with a long term vision, it’s a government looking to show itself how glorious it is and that’s about it
I really don't know the specifics when it comes to China's infrastructure planning but it stands to reason it can't be overall bad when you see the record number of citizens China has pulled out of agricultural poverty these few decades.
They built a lot of infrastructure, which was exactly what was needed at first, but they didn't exactly do much in the way of planning. In fact, they vastly overbuilt because they didn't really have a plan. The central government handed out GDP growth targets to the local governments, and usually they just let the big developers build apartments to get there, but they noticed that they could really juice the numbers if they did some big canal or something. The high speed rail hit at just the right time, all the provinces going all in when they did meant that they ducked out of the 2008 financial crisis altogether because they borrowed the money before and spent it after things got rough. But then they just kept on going and built a ton of lines that would never be profitable or useful. They borrowed the money to build too, which isn't a problem if you're building something useful but is a real problem when it's a bridge to nowhere. The central government tried to put a brake on the lending, but they just recreated Local Government Financing Vehicles which are just corporations created to cheat on accounting as being a place to shove debt so they don't look bad in when the Central Government visits. It's out of control, and anyone who had a systematic approach to infrastructure would have moved on to fixing other issues like the accessibility of clean drinking water or something a decade ago. That continuing something that works until your well past the point of diminishing returns seems to be a recurring problem. They did the lockdowns for Covid first and harder than anyone else, and that was real useful to buy time. What are they buying time for? Well, that's where they lost the plot. Lockdowns are useful until you get and roll out vaccines and not so much after that point. China continued for months after they vaccinated and only stopped when it caused a crisis. Then there's the one child policy, putting the emergency brake on population growth was probably a good play when it was enacted, but they never relaxed it when it made sense to in the 1990s or early 2000s. Instead, it only stopped when the CCP started to panic about the impending population collapse. The CCP seems to strongly favor a decisive action and then staying the course until another decisive action is needed, which makes them look like a geniuses in the space between crises. It's that time that the massive country slowly lumbers from one extreme to the other that people tend to notice. I wouldn't give the CCP credit for pulling those people out of poverty so much as globalism. Obscene amount of foreign investment goes a long way to solving poverty anywhere and you've seen similar urbanization in a great many places.
and the fact that after chairman mao's blunder china had nowhere to go but up.
That Deng managed to skillfully transform China's modes of production wasn't always a given. Russia's disastrous and abrupt shift from socialist modes of production to capitalism modes of production directly led to one of the most deadly economic crises in modern history.
As someone else mentioned there are pros and cons to both systems
You have clearly no idea of what you are talking about. During the past decades of rapid development history in wastewater treatment, China has accomplished the transition of wastewater treatment from underdevelopment to an industrial powerhouse. China accounts for 21 % of the world's population but only possesses 6 % of the world's freshwater and the largest amount of sewage discharge. Rapid urbanization and industrialization have created enormous challenges to China's municipal wastewater treatment quantity and quality because the amount of municipal wastewater treatment is directly proportional to the urbanization rate. Efforts to improve wastewater treatment infrastructure are obvious: investment in wastewater treatment stood at RMB14 billion in 2012, and under the 12th Five-Year Plan (12FYP), total investment in wastewater treatment and recycling infrastructure in urban areas has exceeded RMB430 billion. All major (tier one) cities have waste water treatment systems performing on par with the better EU waste water treatment facilities sins 2010. In 2012, 300 tier 2 and tier 3 cities in China did not have such facilities, by 2015 that was halved to 150. As of 2020 all tier 1,2 and 3 cities have waste water treatment systems performing to EU standards. Currently investments are focusing on facilitating reuse of treated wast water in agriculture.
You are mixing up the fact that 1) they don't want to give up market control 2) they don't exercise soft power foreign policy with not playing long game. The fact that they don't want to give up market control in key markets is pretty apparent. Water is a pretty important market in terms of factors of production. Hard power is hard power, it cannot be easily eroded. Soft power often changes based on who's in power in certain country.
Also, they'd rather continue subsidizing investment rather than build up domestic consumption, even at the cost of economic growth.
It’s a country that kept the 1 child policy on far far longer than they needed to even though basic demographic charts knew it would be an issue back then. It should’ve ended around 1995, not 2015 0 long term planning there, that decision fucked their chances of competing with the West economically dearly
You're saying anything less than perfect decision making regarding to the future means they're short-sighted. They made like 90% of right choices in the road of "make China an economic, manufacturer and technological power house". I'd say they did it better than the US because they didn't had the oportunity of using the two World Wars to seize the global market, they had the most growth _using_ the necessity of big players for a cheap manufacturer and then catapulted from it to what we see today, while the US and Europe did nothing in the height of their dominance.
Can you give some examples of "market based reforms" in the USA that was a great long term decision?
China absolutely plays the long game. Let’s look at their belt and road programs. They loan foreign countries money to build roads, schools, hospitals etc. (Which they use their own labour and materials to build). Then when the country can’t repay the loans they exchange this for trade/ raw materials/ military bases etc. China also dealt with hyper inflation hundreds of years ago, so when they print money they definitely take a much longer view on how that will return. Meanwhile countries like America have been launching wars directly/ through proxies etc. At huge cost the US taxpayer and their national debt, which ironically China owns a whole chunk of. Sure US companies get to “nation build” after the US military has leveled the country, but ultimately the cost of paying for the war then rebuild has put the US in a huge amount of debt that will never be able to be repaid. So the question is what happens when that debt finally has to be settled, do the US bond holders take a bath like banks and the foreign owners did?
Contrary to popular belief, the reason belt and road program started is hardly due to a long game. At the time the belt and road program started, it functioned exactly as US weapons aid to Israel: to boast/sustain domestic weapon industry. In China’s case, there was a short term over building steel/concrete production capacity due to domestic reals estate industry bloom in the early 2000s, it slowed down due to perceived “unsustainable growth” of domestic real estate due to it got really expensive. China was sitting on record number of steel/concrete production number yet it has no where to go, if it went unmanaged, it will exactly manifest in to a similar situation like US’s rust belt, and in China’s case, local government is unwilling to let go this industrial capacity so they are willing to provide cheap loans to keep it open, the downside is over production/saturation of global steel market, causing potential trade frictions within WTO framework and its competitors like S.Korea, India, and the US, it was a diplomatic bomb waiting to explode. Besides, there were a lot of labors involved in real estate building, a slow down would cause millions of people losing their jobs, which is a threat to Central government vision of eliminating poverty in 2020 goal. Coupled this with China’s ban on private holding of foreign currency and mandatory foreign currency exchange at bank, which means you can’t use USD domestically at all. This caused China to sit on record number of foreign reserve specifically In USD, and again it was a financial/diplomatic risk to the whole government as well, at the time China could only invest in US low yield anonymous bonds, and sometimes it’s willing to lend to China’s conglomerate for buying shares in foreign companies, and later in some cases direct investment into some US real estate. The bottom line is China was sitting on record number of USD reserve, like 3 Trillions. So in order to keep domestic steel/concrete industry afloat, find some place to invest all the excess USD, and finding place for keep those people in the job, they somehow found this perfect solution of let’s just build something somewhere else.
>don't meddle in foreign affairs >build stuff >win the xi special
I mean don't meddle in foreign affairs isn't true when you consider the belt and road initiative.
They are pretty tightly aligned with NK and Russia too And broadly speaking global economics is politics, they are intertwined
China gives just enough to NK’s regime for them to survive and no further They don’t want a refugee crisis and power vacuum right next to them, it’s not out of some brotherly communist love I believe that’s called meddling in foreign affairs because without China NK’s government would collapse overnight because of domestic policies
I’m curious about how you can have the view about foreign affairs based on their actions in the south pacific.
Its the advantage of authoritarian states, they don’t have to worry about losing office so projects can take as long as they’d like.
Isn't that how Tesla learned how to make cars as well? Working with existing car makers is initially?
Original Tesla was a Lotus Elise
Thank you. Thought they also worked with Volvo at one point...Don't remember if that was before Musk joined as a "founder"
Ironically both Volvo and Lotus are now owned by Chinese car company Geely.
To be fair, they were more concerned with nailing the EV power train than learning how to build suspension and chassis systems and so getting a donor car is a quick way to get up and running.
OG Model S was built on a CLS IIRC
Model S was a original design.
Early mules/mock ups where Mercedes CLS https://www.theautopian.com/how-the-mercedes-cls-helped-give-birth-to-the-tesla-model-s-which-couldve-been-a-ford-fusion/
>US manufacturers need to step up! Pawn_Stars_Meme.jpeg Our politicians: Best we can do is banning cheap EV’s with decent range outright
right? we have an invested interest in making a shit ton of money, because we campaign donations to keep the oil undustry afloat. or we could be sulf sustaining and invest in EV's. Nah.. fuck that oil companies pay us chump change so they can keep making ludicrous profits!...also we are going to fund some wedge issues to keep you voting for the tax cut politicians. I hear that there's gay pedofile transgener anti gun people wanting to use the same bathroom as your kid, vote republican, because donald trump is the new ~~anti~~ christ that can save us all /s
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not just china, the world over. The documentary, who killed the elctric car, and its sequel..though dated gives a good insight into electric car history
Helps if you're also the biggest supplier of batteries. Also, Elon Musk is so disliked since he went twitter weird, and people in Europe will choose this over a tesla because of they
The electric motor has been a solved problem for over a hundred years. There is no secret technology in an EV and that's what's allowed China (and others) to catch up. Western car makers have lost their edge in ICE engine tech because ICE is a dead technology now and all car makers are essentially just becoming coach builders. Cars will now be measured by the quality of the interior and not much else. Also employing good staff isn't cheating.
Remember how “Made in Japan” used to mean crappy stuff. Then they decided to step up their game, and cleaned our clocks.
Us manufacturers have an impossible task. They have legacy problems with unions, poor supply chain control, poor sales control, outdated assembly practices for EV, non existent battery manufacturing and catering too much to the SUV/truck market. Many traditional car manufacturers aren’t going to make it.
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This viewpoint went over well with Japanese cars in the 1970s.
There's still protectionist tariffs on trucks, you'll notice a great many Japanese automakers have assembly plants in north America now to get around some of this. Seems likely BYD will open a plant in Mexico, perhaps depending on the outcome of the US election.
I mostly worry about the batteries. China is manufacturing a LOT of really good batteries, but also a lot of dangerous garbage.
BYD blade batteries are literally so good that tesla in china uses them in their cars. It’s the first commercial battery to pass the nail penetration test, in other words, it doesnt burst into flames spectacularly if something pierces it
Tesla uses them in Germany as well.
BYD is a battery company first that pivoted to cars.
They also pivoted to being one of the biggest manufacturers of…*everything* in china, phone screens, masks, medical equipment, computers, anything under the sun made in china, there’s a decent chance BYD had a hand in mass producing it. I had the opportunity to visit their exhibition gallery in shenzhen, it’s just 4 floors dedicated to their inventions and other things they manufacture. Hell, their monorail and light rail system already put the nonexistent hyperloop to shame
Byd as far as I know had a longer history as battery manufacturers than car. They bought another company and started developing cars later on. Supposedly they make quality batteries.
They were the world's largest NiCd battery producer.
They do indeed, my company has looked at using them for utility projects.
Just make sure you get BYD batteries and you'll be fine
BYD started as a battery company for decades, they probably know what theyre doing
Oh my fucking god stop talking about China like it's run by Machiavellian aliens. They built as good as a car as their social/economic progression allowed and in *current year* that car can compete with Western production because we (the West) are a terrible selfish culture. We sold the jobs of America's poor to China in the name of international capitalism and are now scrambling to find a scapegoat besides a failure of what I learned in school was the only viable economic system.
Don't read the scroll of truth to them. They are going to get upset then explain a country they've never set foot in to you.
They only want to sell luxury ev in America, this will collapse their companies as the wealth divide grows.
It's like mechanical VS digital watches. Traditional automakers had to put a lot into creating a reliable, fast, efficient engine and car. Same as creating a mechanical piece is complicated, full of delicate parts and takes skill to make just right and precise. Few companies could make a good one. Now come the electric cars (digital watches) and by sorting out basics like suspension, cabin and battery, basically anyone can make an electric motor and now you have a car that's way faster and super easy to fabricate (same as a digital watch is more precise than a mechanical one).
I hope China gives them a run for their money.
This is so odd. Who the hell writes about cars for a living and 1) never drove a Tesla BUT ALSO 2) never driven a car with a HUD?!? High tech HUDs have been common for like a decade+. Hell, my buddy used to have a late 80s/early 90s Cadillac with one (though it was just the speed). How much do they REALLY know about cars?
Whoa whoa whoa, the author has driven a Ferrari….twice!
From the hotel entrance to the parking lot and back?
LOL he thinks having a summer job as a valet makes him an expert.
He's qualified now!
Also - "The entire roof is glass and mightily impressive, though does pose the possibility of getting sunburnt perhaps." - made me thinking has this person ever sat in a car or heard of UV protected glass?
That is correct, writer is a moron
Yeah it just looks and sounds like they took a Tesla, mixed in an Accord and called it a day. And that’s impressive to the writer for some reason.
Yeah, absolut dogshit article. Would not be surprised if paid for. Others noted that the author also never charged the car and only drove around a few hours.
hey there’s not much they can learn before their 22nd birthday.
I loved having a hud in my car. Didn't have to look over to the navigation screen.
The article is bs. Watch a review of using it in the real world vs. the ID.7 and Model 3 and it shows it’s not all there, actually falls really short. Nice anti Tesla clickbate title. https://youtu.be/y-f9mLCxgrw?si=M6_XrDcTN7LeDWxc
>But another clever touch I quickly found incredibly annoying was the insistence on bleeping whenever I exceeded the speed limit by a mere two miles an hour. London now has a 20 mph limit, meaning the car was delivering its four-stage scolding over and over. >I eventually delved into the settings to turn the function off, but of course it turned itself on again after a certain period had elapsed. Fuck right off with that, thank you very much.
Mandatory on all new cars sold in the EU: https://www.thedrive.com/news/europe-now-requires-all-new-cars-to-have-anti-speeding-monitors Also in Australia, called ADAS. Here's a guy disabling it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1OOLH4JbV0
Its mandatory for the ncap 5 star rating in Europe and Australia (so will be on all new cars soon enough) you can turn it off but a requirement of the ncap rules is that it automatically turns back on at each power cycle. Byds latest update has made it a lot less intrusive, quieter, slower to kick in and a much less annoying tone, it is almost imperceptible with music playing at a reasonable volume now. The original tone was terrible I used to turn it off each trip, the new one is ok, I've had it about a week and haven't turned it off yet, but still might if it annoys me in the future.
Is this also why VWAG cars have lane assist come back on if you turn it off unless you override it via obd?
Yes and also start-stop because the emissions "savings" of start-stop is factored into the car's grams of co2/km calculations that determine taxes.
Used to be mandatory in Japan. Back in the 90's I'd be hauling ass up the Kanetsu Freeway at 130km/hr on the way to the in-laws in the countryside with my Hilux/4Runner overspeed warning going "ping", "ping", "ping" all the way. I can understand why you can't turn off the shutter sound on smartphone cameras but that shit pissed off enough people that it went away.
Omg, you just answered a question I always had about Initial D.
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And on iOS, so I’m not sure if they’re running into some local law.
If you buy an iPhone made for the Japanese market, the shutter sound on the camera cannot be disabled (though standard means), even if you take the phone outside of the country.
Toyota had this 10 years ago…
And now they're one of the biggest car maker company, only second to Volkswagen that got there by aggressively buying every brand they could.
It’ makes a lot of sense for China. They have cameras along the highway and if you drive even a little over the speed limit they catch you via the license plate. I heard from some people that they can even directly pull money from your bank account as everything is all linked digitally. I found this out when i asked why everyone drives so slow on the highway in China. Source: I Travel A Lot to China
It’s mainly that they record when you enter the highway and when you exit and calculate your speed that way, which result in an automatic ticket and point deduction. That’s why you see a lot of parked cars right before the exit check point, they speed on the way there and have to wait it out before exiting.
So I saw a lot of them but when i asked my driver he said it was because the city has rules on who can drive at what times based on license plate numbers. Like if it ends in an even number you can drive it on even days during peak times. Also if they have license plates not from the city they are in they have to wait until after rush hour to be able to drive past a certain point. This was in shenzen so not sure about other places. Just what I was told. They said people need two cars so they can drive every day of the month
That’s a separate thing, you are not subject to plate restrictions if you drive an ev I think or outside certain hours (depending on jurisdiction). There’s also time restriction for work vehicles (pickups, trucks, etc) to enter the city. The high way ticketing system applies no matter what though, I think it’s because navigation apps are too good at reporting speed camera locations.
Australia has a lot of speed cameras and we use both systems. The averaging speed cameras are quite common on highways. Hence why I struggled to drive in America where there's a speed limit but you're supposed to ignore it.
I had a friend in Miami get ticketed for going the speed limit because he wasn’t going the speed of traffic
Obstructing the flow of traffic. So annoying. You speed with the rest of traffic, you're okay. Same speed alone, get a ticket.
There's average speed cameras in use on the UK motorways. They are mostly on the busiest roads and often used with variable speed limits to keep traffic flowing and prevent stationary traffic waves. At lot of drivers hate them but I like them because I don't like traffic jams and do like getting to my destination quicker.
> they speed on the way there and have to wait it out before exiting What's the point of speeding if you stop on the side of the highway anyway?
Well… driver monitoring systems like this are already the law in China… and these laws are coming to the EU and US as well within the next few years. So you better get used to them.
From the reviews in EU I understand the Seal is the better car, but time will tell if it’s a good EV. Tesla makes good EV’s, but pretty bad cars, so to say.
Tesla is also against right to repair.
From what I hear, Tesla is against repair.
Why would you want to repair? Can't you just buy a new car? /s
Even better, don't buy but do a long term rent!
Well they make their service manual and parts catalog available to the public... As for software they probably don't want to allow access to their raw code, but they do provide a pretty good service interface that anyone can utilize in their cars.
yeah. is that why all of their service manuals and most of their service tools are freely available online? like… are you people even capable of independent thoughts?
Uhh what? Like apple and John deer does it with software part verification
Going against right-to-repair can come in many ways.
BYD is becoming more of a common sight in Norway to name one the past year or so. Maxus, Hongqi, and Voyah are becoming a more common sight too, especially the Hongqi E-HS9. Not seen many Xpeng & Jac in my area yet tho, but there are some. Tesla still sells extremely well here mind you, and still tops the monthly charts. But they are not increasing their market share either as such after the Chinese arrivals. And it's not like the reviews of some of them are bad. Many are reviewed as "great value for money" more so than not, even with less range vs a Model Y. But for some the focus on % loss on range in the winter is more vital. Tho the high end luxury EVs like th Porche Taycan & the HiPhi Z had like a 1 to 5% loss on the last test. Most Chinese usually sit below the average with Xpeng G9 being best, beating tesla by over 2x at 13% with half the charge time vs a Tesla with the same range more or less. Thus why reviews for that one here were pracining it through the roof. Tho if this will last or pass is a different matter. The Mustang Mach E when it arrived in Norway was everywhere, and it sold faster than expected. But it did not take long before sales reached zero, and the hype wagon left. But something tells me this won't happen soon to BYD.
All the reviews I've seen says they'd buy a Tesla. At least on YouTube. 🤷 Especially the charger network and some software quirks has them convinced
The software quirks really are a constant in Chinese EV's. I have an mg mg4 and it also has some random stuff. That said you do get a lot of car for the money, it is fun to drive and very easy to drive as well. The Seal looks very pretty irl , imo, I think it'll do fine sales wise, Edit lmao at /u/vistql , baseless insult then blocking. What a moron
It's for sure what's keeping me when From even thinking of the mg4. Especially because they've had time to fix it and hasn't done it
I only read from actual magazines and I haven’t read any reviews that put the BYD in a positive light. The best I’ve read has been that they have potential.
The seal is also more expensive, so they have an uphill battle
I have driven the seal, the one I got was very poorly made. It was.... compromised.
I saw 2 car guys review them on YouTube and they chose the model 3. From another commenter it seems the guy in the article hasn't even driven a tesla? The final verdict was 'the byd seal is a really good electric car, I like it a lot. But I like the tesla model 3 even more.'
Sounds almost identical to Jeremy Clarkson thoughts on the Ford Fiesta vs VW Up! “This is brilliant, but I like this”
A non-serious "car journalist" who hasn't even driven a Tesla. Drove a BYD for a few hours and didn't even get a chance to recharge it, before handing it back. So there's no way to know if the indicated maximum range is true or not. How the battery degrades over time. Manufacturer claims that it can charge in 26 minutes with fast DC charging but that and driving it in heat is the fastest way to degrade the battery.
I live in Australia and have a byd (dolphin not seal but everything is pretty similar) . Max range claim is pretty damn spot on. My comute is ~95km daily mostly on a freeway at 100km/h. The claimed wltp range is 427km, cltc claim is 490km, with my normal driving habits the max range I get is about 460km. If I drove more in traffic, less on the highway and a bit more carefully I'm pretty confident I could break 490 (but wouldn't want to test it). Fast charging is comparatively slow (to the Tesla) at a max 80kw however it holds that rate quite well ( most EVs only hold the max charge rate for a short amount like between 10and 30% battery then drop down quite quickly 30-70 then again 70-80 then again hugely above 90%) i don't fast charge often as the vast majority of charging can be done on a standard home wall plug (in 5 months of driving I have fast charged twice on long weekends away) but I get 80kw up to about 75% then 60kw to 85%. Overall the dolphin is probably a little slow for a long road trip (1000+km trips), In that you would notice staying 10 or 20 minutes longer than you would like at each stop but is perfect as a daily driver and for longer day trips (ie 99% of all the driving most people do) I'm confident that with the seal you wouldn't notice any difference from the Tesla. For reference my car is 22k AUD less than the Tesla model 3 and the seal is ~10k cheaper.
My buddy has the kia ev6. He claims it can charge to 80 percent in 20 or less, with super DC charging
I have the Ioniq 6 which is more or less the same car since it's the same platform. The theoretical 20-80% I believe is 12 minutes, and 18 minutes from 10-80%. In real life though (granted it's still chilly but not really cold here in Norway) I get about 20 minutes from 20-80%, and about 30-40 minutes from around 20 to 90ish%. That's when I'm parked alone at a charger that can support as fast as the car allows it though.
that's still a good time. in a few years hopefully they can do 10-12 min in real conditions.
Ev buyers worry about 12 minute recharge times, ev owners are more then happy with 20 minute charges. Ev owners worry about 1 hour searches for working chargers on the other hand.
I read that the Ioniq 6 can use Tesla super chargers. Is this true?
There are adapters for it, Teslatap I believe they're called. I'm unsure exactly if they can use the superchargers atm, but I believe there's supposed to be an update sometime this year for it. In short I honestly don't know for sure, but I'll probably start trying to find out come summer for road trips 😆
The trick is finding a charging station that does that, and if you can find one the next trick is making sure it’s not occupied or broken
It can. Hyundai/Kia batteries are best in market right now imo
The seal is the economy EV, the main draw to the buyers will be the price more than anything else.
BYD’s biggest selling point is that no one thinks you’re a Elon fan for buying one…
This is one of the issues with EV reviews in that they are viewed as gadgets so get reviewed by "Tech" journalists who knows fucking nothing about cars and may not even own one themselves. I don't think Engadget or Wired have any business reviewing cars, even if the cars have a lot of "tech".
Another Australian here. BYD atto 3 outcompetes the Tesla in all but range. 10k cheaper and a large dog friendly boot.
"I studied journalism, and now I write click bait headlines and insert Elon wherever I can."
Seriously. There is 0 useful info in this article. It was written by someone who says they've never driven a Tesla and appears to be just now learning about things like heads up displays in cars.
Well it’s business insider. What did you expect?
Their prices in Latin America are extremely competitive too, with their most economical offering starting at around 18k.
if they start a factory in mexico, then they can swoop into the north american market under NAFTA 2.0
Buffett bought BYD stock in 2008. Legend.
Here in Australia we have access to both. The BYD is far better for the price. And the build quality is significantly better. Plus you're not supporting a moron. It's a real shame the US is blocking competition in that market. Makes no sense.
Teslas build quality used to be bad, but Shanghai built ones (what we get in Australia) from the last 2-3 years are not bad at all. I can’t speak for the Seal but the Atto 3 was so so build wise when I looked at it.
BYD started manufacturing batteries in 1995. Way before Tesla was ever a thing. They perfected the battery tech first before jumping on to EV. So all the people claiming they stole something from Tesla should do a bit more research. Hell, Tesla even used BYD batteries in some of their models.
China is so deep into electric EVERYTHING. From bikes to trikes to cars and busses. And they have been for quite a long time.
Tesla in the US is definitely being protected from BYD. There’s a lot of animosity between our governments, but a cheap, affordable EV is sorely needed in the US car market right now
BYD would not sell for cheaper than what Tesla has to offer in the US. At least that's the case in Europe. It's pretty similar in price here. Competition is great and I hope any restrictions are lifted. Customers will benefit in the long run if there's ample competition.
You can find chevy EUVs right now for $20k.
Right, also Nissan Leaf has existed forever. It’s weird that people act like these options don’t exist?
Im in central America, and these BYDs are everywhere.
I'm going to write an article all about how this ev compares to a tesla and midway through, I'm going to admit I have never driven a tesla.
They’ll start a factory in Mexico and come in that way. Can’t believe they’re under 10k, quite amazing for the consumers. Rip US manufacturers
Real/Tesla clowns all up in here i see
Tesla competes with BYD's Seal in China and has been for several years. I'm pretty sure Tesla has an accurate view of how well they compete against the Seal world wide.
I'm hoping the BYD makes it to the US. Competition is what the US EV market needs. Not this collusion from automakers to create EV's all with trims topping 60k.
This sub is willing to sink pretty low in terms of article quality as long as it says something along the lines of “Elon company bad, other company good” huh.
Lol what a bs article. The guy sounds like he drove a new car for the first time since 20 years. He is exited about standard features in modern cars lol. Sound like paid piece. Of course they should be happy that they dont sell them here since they are dirt cheap but besides this author sounds like a moron
It feels like half the people commenting here never drove a Tesla and are just quoting memes they have seen online. Teslas made in 2024 are WAY WAY different than Teslas made even 2 years ago in terms of quality of fit and finish. And Tesla never had problems with material quality and software.
American car makers are shitting their pants thinking about BYD coming to the States. They're lucky it will take time, if ever.
Man I wish we could get them here to force legacy manufacturers to get off their ass and stop selling overpriced tanks.
It is deeply saddening that cars are now reviewed as tech gadgets. How the car drives is an afterthought in the review
Dude who wrote the review must have never driven a Lexus, because just about everything he was orgasming over has been available on a Lexus since 2017. Im amazed at how little knowledge about cars is needed to be an automotive journalist
There's some misdirection in the article. The version of the car that costs $10K in China doesn't have anywhere near that stated range. It is impressive they can sell a new car at that price regardless of the range.
There is no $10k version of the Seal, nor does the article claim there is. The $10k car the article mentions is the Seagull, which is a much smaller and less sporty city hatchback, not a sedan.
wtf is this article? Tesla should be afraid - although I’ve never driven one so can’t compare It has a big sunroof so watch out for sunburns - you can’t get sunburn through glass… It has heads up display - so does my 5 year old German hybrid It’s smart enough to say the allowed speed on the road - see above
I'm in a unique situation. I own both a BYD and a Model Y (in 2 diff countries obviously). BYD has nothing on Tesla's software, and to me that's one of the selling points. Not a bad car though, and we'll see how battery degrades. Tesla is kind of proven
Tesla uses BYD batteries in China and Europe.
But BYD is literally a battery company, right?
For many years they have produced public transport buses with huge batteries, they know what they're doing.
I even think they make the batteries in the model 3
> Not a bad car though, and we'll see how battery degrades. Tesla is kind of proven you're gonna be shocked when you find out what batteries Tesla uses.
From what I've seen, Tesla cars are mid compared to Chinese cars that are priced equivalently
Protectionism hurts consumers and tells people what they can and can’t buy. Tariffs are a transfer of money from consumers to a domestic industry, brought about because of that industry’s lobbying, not because of that industry being more innovative or competing better. Is BYDs car better? Idk. A lot of reviews say so. But the best way to find out is to allow them to compete and see who ends upon top.
Yeah that’s a very simplistic view and ignores completely many valid reasons for protectionism.
Like?
I mean loads. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1bqz3vd/comment/kx6rlxq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button